Six in a row
Greetings, all-
Hope you got to enjoy Friday night’s game. Wow. That stretch in the third quarter, I think it was one of those times where you didn’t really have to be a Hawks fan to appreciate what was going on. You just had to be a fan of the game, period. It was just five guys losing themselves in the flow of the game, totally committed and executing at a near flawless rate.
This is probably a stretch, and please don’t take this to mean I’m saying the Hawks are as good as the Michael Jordan Bulls, but I grew up watching that team and, particularly when they had Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen teamed up with Jordan – I remember assistant coach Johnny Bach called them Doberman pinschers – that team could turn it on defensively like nothing else.
The Hawks looked something like that against Utah in the third quarter. Josh Smith was unreal rebounding, blocking and altering shots and even that behind-the-back bounce pass to Al Horford on the break. Passes got deflected, Jazz cutters were covered, Joe Johnson swallowed up Deron Williams. That Ray Lewis comparison that Jamal Crawford made with Smith looks a little less lopsided today than Friday.
The crazy thing is how it followed a pretty rancid first half. If you remember, Horford tried to start a break by throwing the ball backwards over his head. Mike Bibby’s layup. A couple wild outlet passes by Smith. Typically level-headed Mo Evans turning to yell at a ref while the ball was still in play.
Watching all this, it certainly seemed like the Hawks were off their game and were headed to a loss, just because no team can keep up the kind of mojo they’ve been having (to wit: Boston against Philly. Did you know the Celtics are 3-4 on Fridays, including the Hawks’ win over them last month? They’re 17-1 the other six days of the week. Strange.)
But, heavens, what a turnaround. You’d have to think the Hawks will win again tonight. I’d hardly call it a sure thing, though, and I wouldn’t be too surprised if they lost. It seems to happen enough in the NBA. But it makes me wonder how long they can keep playing like this and what it’ll take to stop them. Denver looms large, obviously – second game of a back to back at altitude, for whatever that’s worth. And then Cleveland, certainly.
But, anyway, I am on the flight to Chicago and am going to have to shut down the laptop pretty soon. So, some links, and I think that’ll do it.
Enjoy the game tonight.
The Salt Lake Tribune’s take.
“I think more than anything their length just hurt us,” Deron Williams said. “They switched everything. We didn’t really have an answer for that. We didn’t have a game plan against that. They played great basketball tonight.”
The Jazz lost the third quarter 37-17, giving up a 16-0 run in which they were held scoreless for 5:13 and suffered a complete meltdown.
From Jazz beat writer Ross Siler’s blog:
The funniest thing in there is that Deron Williams left about 40 tickets for the University of Illinois basketball team (where Williams played) because they’re in Atlanta playing Georgia at Gwinnett Arena, I think. Because of traffic delays, the team got there in the third quarter. Bummer.
Carlos Boozer quotes:
“They’re one of the fastest teams in the league at every position and they exploited that tonight. They played fast with layups and dunks and transition. They just kicked our butts in general.”
“It’s almost like we played right into their hands. Whatever their scheme was worked.”
The Chicago Tribune’s Bulls page.
The nuttiest stat I’ve seen today, from espn.com’s Daily Dime courtesy of Elias Sports Bureau.
The irrepressible Elias Sports Bureau might have outdone itself with this one involving Shaquille O’Neal and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Cleveland’s two centers produced near-identical lines in the box score in Tuesday’s win over New Jersey: Both scored 16 points on 7-for-9 shooting with five rebounds and three blocked shots. How hard is it to produce a line with those specifics? Elias says that players have recorded more than 750,000 box-score lines since the NBA began keeping track of blocks in 1973 … and only two other players in all that time went for 16 points on 7-for-9 shooting with five boards and three swats: Cavs swingman Jamario Moon in April 2008 (with Toronto), and Portland’s Greg Oden earlier this season.
A page I’ve now bookmarked, because Elias Sports Bureau does a great job of digging up stuff like this – plus stuff that has more meaning, is Elias Says.
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319 comments Add your comment
dap01
December 19th, 2009
12:31 pm
Ken, great blog.
The Hawks have an opportunity for something special.
Craig
December 19th, 2009
1:01 pm
I got a big group of folks going to the Hawks/Cavs game coming up, and we are calling for the RED OUT. I repeat, RED OUT Phillips Arena.
ncat96
December 19th, 2009
1:08 pm
The hard work that Coach Woodson has put into these Hawks over the years is really coming together this season. He has shown steady progression and development of this team since his first year. I just don’t understand why he has not gotten a contract extension by now. How foolish can the management be regarding this.
BILLY KNIGHT
December 19th, 2009
1:35 pm
GREAT GAME MY BIGGEST ISSUE WHY ARE THE ORGANIZATION DOING MORE 2 GET THE PEOPLE 2 THE GAMES, MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE MORE FAMILY DISCOUNT OR BUY A TICKET AND GET THE 2ND HALF PRICE.
ILL-logical
December 19th, 2009
1:43 pm
Keep an eye on UT’s Dexter Pittman today as the clash with Carolina. He has come along way from his 400 lbs days and could be a better version of Kendrick Perkins, another Texas high school phenom.
rms
December 19th, 2009
1:43 pm
Hey Craig, if you get the AJC and the sporttalk radio to jump on board for the that to let more fans know about the RED OUT then maybe it could happen! Good idea. Didnt know we were playing the Cavs back to back! It would be nice if we could sweep them but a huge bummer if we got swept.
MannyT
December 19th, 2009
2:11 pm
Why would we have a red out when the Cavs main road color is red?
I’ll pass on the red for that game.
KenS, is Dec 19th the official slow news day in the NBA? That seems like a stretch for news…even for the Daily Dime.
Next, they will promote Z & Shaq as the heaviest guys to ever have that stat line.
Gotta keep the good roll going in Chicago tonight.
BWAF
Grandad
December 19th, 2009
2:19 pm
From the previous blog:
Merry Christmas to Doc and KevinA
No offense taken.
I know less about Econ. than I do Basketball.
I do prefer Marvin over Childress in that Marv is a Hawk. J.Childress
is not. This is a super TEAM and Marv is an integral member of OUR team.
Enjoy! Happy Holidays All!
RLP
December 19th, 2009
2:45 pm
Regarding the discussion from the previous blog concerning Jerry Sloan:
I agree that Jerry Sloan gave up on the game during the third quarter blitz. But he did not give up on coaching. From the point that the Hawks were up by thirty and the starters were pulled to the point that the game ended the Jazz reduced the lead by 17 points. I agree that Sloan gave up on the game but I think he did not give up on coaching his players. I was disappointed with the play of the Hawks second team during that stretch. That stretch could have been a teaching moment for the second team.
I also think Sloan is a really good coach. But for some on this blog he would not qualify for that designation because he has never won a championship although he did have two teams to reach the finals.
RLP
December 19th, 2009
3:04 pm
Here comes the hard part of the ten game predictions game. I think all of the first five of the games won during Ken S.’s ten game prediction schedule were fairly easy to predict. All were against teams the Hawks should defeat based on the fact that four of the five games were at home against teams with losing road records on the road and the one away game was against a team we has just defeated by 31 points a few days earlier.
But now the Hawks are going on the road. Until this year their road record has been miserable over the last few years. As the year began the road record was the biggest impediment to the team showing improvement. On this trip the team will be facing a team with a 12-1 record at home, another team that is 7-5 at home, a third that is 6-6 at home and finally one game which should be an easy win since that team is only 3-11 at home. But road games are never easy in the NBA. And then the game most of us on the blog have pointed to as some kind of definitive moment for the team – the home and away series with Cleveland.
When I made my predictions I predicted a loss tonight. If I were to be making my prediction now I would move that game into a prediction of a win for the Hawks. The Bulls have been struggling lately and are only 3-7 in their last 10 games.They have issues that I did not foresee at the time.
I would love to see the team reel off a road win stretch. Their confidence level is high and I think they can win the next two. But Denver will really be tough. Every team will have nights where things just do not go right. Let us hope that the current win streak will help give the Hawks the confidence level to fight through road adversity and up their won loss record on the road during these next four games.
Ken Sugiura
December 19th, 2009
3:28 pm
MannyT – Elias Sports Bureau is the official record keeper for the four major pro leagues and mls and wnba. i think part of their job is coming up with random stuff like that.
thanks, Dap
tjhook
December 19th, 2009
3:50 pm
Enjoyed the Hawks’ intensity and teamwork last night. Marvin was even playing aggressive. Ken, could you talk to Coach Woodson about any consideration to moving Maurice Evans into the starting lineup since the team plays with a little more urgency when he is on the court. The slow starts can be killers when we match up with the elite teams. Also, if putting Marvin on the bench to come on with Crawford would be beneficial or detrimental to his growth. I personally believe he could learn a lot by watching the game and his opponents before joining the action. He’s never really taken a big-picture approach to the game (although he is a conscientious guy).
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
3:55 pm
From the previous blog:
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
2:56 pm
For all the hype about UNC big men, this big guy for Texas (Pitman, 6-10/11 290) is dominanting them all… Too bad he can’t play more than a 5 mins stretch or he would be a top 5 pick in next year draft…. Hmmm, he may not be a bad late 1st round pick….
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
4:02 pm
ILL-logical,
Melvin mentioned him on the other blog too. If he can get in better shape, it will be interesting to see how he improves during the year.
The thing I like about Jerry Sloan, is regardless of the players on the team, you have a pretty good idea what to expect. They will be physical, they will hustle, and they will execute his offense (most of the times).
But last night, they had no answer for the Hawks. And that was awesome.
Samuel, Woody has shown that the Hawks can win/dominate some good teams (at times). But in the playoffs, he is still an unproven commodity, and his record is 7-10. I think the performance of the Hawks in the playoffs will determine the length of his new contract.
As for the game tonight, the starters are rested, and I expect to see Al have a good game against Noah. Lets keep it going Hawks.
RLP
December 19th, 2009
4:07 pm
Ken S:
Many have commented on the job you have done on this site. I would like to add my comments thanking you for providing us with an interim writer. I found you professional and loved your creativity in trying some new things to get us involved in discussions different from the same old tired repetitions that we fall into during slack periods between games. Thank you.
For you bloggers:
Check out the link Ken gave us to the Salt Lake Tribune and the fans blog that can be found on the site. Swap a couple of players names and the coaches names and it would read like this blog does at times. The only difference is that our team is soaring right now and their perception of their team is not as kind as what we find here. Thanks for the link Ken.
Samuel
December 19th, 2009
4:22 pm
“I think more than anything their length just hurt us,” Deron Williams said. “They switched everything. We didn’t really have an answer for that. We didn’t have a game plan against that. They played great basketball tonight.”
I thought “switching” everything was our main problem, Coach Strickland.
Big Ump
December 19th, 2009
4:33 pm
Samuel
I’m like you. I believe Deron should know because he was caught up in it.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
4:49 pm
Samuel,
When we lost to the Knicks in ATL, got blown out by the Bobcats, and lost to the Pistons who were without 3 of their top 6 players, the Hawks were switching everything too. How did that work out?
For what its worth, I think the Hawks should be more selective when they switch, as opposed to doing it every game all the time. And when they mix it up, they have been very effective.
Samuel
December 19th, 2009
5:08 pm
O’brien,
What’s our record compared to the Knicks and Bobcats? Thought so. I trust Woody to do what it takes to win. He’s proving that he knows best how to run this team.
Woody=COY
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
5:19 pm
Samuel,
I was very critical of Woody over the years, but so far this season, he has surprised me, and exceeded my expectations.
As for the switching, there are some games when it doesn’t work. When it is not working, I just want Woody to be flexible, and adjust. Obviously, the switching was very effective last night.
Samuel
December 19th, 2009
5:24 pm
Looks like he’s being pretty flexible to me, since we have the 2nd best record in the conference and the 3rd best overall. I don’t believe he expects to go undefeated in 82 games. I’ll take 76% any day.
Ramon
December 19th, 2009
6:26 pm
The switching on defense will be successful against many western conference teams, because they only play the Hawks once/twice a year. So that defense is easy to catch someone off guard with it, especially on a road trip when they haven’t had time to prepare for it. The weaknesses of a switch defense will be exploited in a playoff series, where mismatches are searched for and abused. Another thing is Utah only possesses one player who actually likes to post up, and that is Boozer. So if you’re switching when Boozer isn’t in the game, Bibby is less likely to be exploited on defense.
Grandad
December 19th, 2009
6:27 pm
For All:
The main reason R.Sund is going to evaluate Mr.Woodson in the play-offs
is precisely what yawl have been discussing this afternoon. The switching def. debate. It evidently caused Utah great problems. They had not seen it this yr. They may or may not see it again until they
re-match with us. In a play-off series they would have the opportunity to adjust next game. Thus a series becomes a match of counterpunches.
Will Mr. Woodson be able to adapt and maximize talent? Will he be able to make the necessary adjustments in a short amount of time? Will he be able to hold serve [Boston '08] plus win a big game on the opponents court? Will he be able to out-coach a percieved better tactician and strategist? Right now, he is just letting the horses run. Please, one more metaphor, he has actually loosened the reigns. However, come
play-offs, the pace will slow. Then we and R.Sund will see the real ‘Woodson’. This has in no way been a criticism. Lets wait and see.
In the meantime, lets enjoy this run. Go Hawks! Merry Christmas to All.
Rufus1
December 19th, 2009
6:36 pm
No extension until Joe signs
Woodson has proven he can’t develop players…so if he loses his bet veteran, Woodson must go. Billy knight tried to fire him because of the player development.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2009
6:47 pm
SAMUEL-you spend so much of your time looking for excuses, you can’t seem to fathum what’s actually going on in gms. You also appear to have difficulty comprehending anything beyond the literal interpretation of anything. You don’t seem to understand there are difference in the way we switch when playing both DEF’s. You heard the word switch and automatically seized the opportunity to try and justify your position, while employing very little thought process in your response. Allow me to explaing something you’ve obviously failed to recognize.
Even when we play straight man to man DEF we switch if the DEF player is unable to get over the pick. However, we almost immediately switch back once the player gets past the pick, thus eliminating any potential mismatch. There are occasions when they are unable to switch back and each player stays with the player he switched to until they are able to switch back again.
It doesn’t take much basketball knowledge or understanding to read between the lines of DWilliams comments. There’s absolutely no way he was talking about having difficulty with Horford, Zaza or Smoove switching off and guarding him, or having Bibby, Teague or Crawford switching off and guarding Boozer or Okur. He was referring to us switching on the successful picks and then switching back before they could take advantage of the mismatches, like teams do when we play the perpetually switching DEF.
In the constantly switching DEF, the player that switches stays with the player he switches to, which creates constant mismatches which usually favors the opposition. Read OBRIEN’S 5:19pm post and get an idea of what is meant by making adjustments, especially during gms, and using strategy. A good HC will often make certain adjustments and changes to meet certain situations rather than stubbornly sticking to something that isn’t working effectively, just because it’s worked before.
doc
December 19th, 2009
7:26 pm
samuel good stuff. as far as promoting woody as coy that is the worst thing i could do for him. last year i promoted george karl who should have won it several times over but he didnt get it; so, maybe if you want your guy to get it, keep me out of it.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2009
7:52 pm
I wonder if the Bulls are excited about this gm, or nervous. Are they concerned about being competitive, or getting blown out like our previous 6 opponents. At any rate, it’s almost time to rumble people. I LOVE THE WAY WOODSON IS NOW HANDLING THIS TEAM AND ALL OF HIS COACHING RESPONSIBILITIES.
GOOOOOOOOO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
8:01 pm
lets get it…
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:11 pm
I’m here reporting for duty
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:11 pm
HOw many times is Marvin gonna get stuffed 2day????
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
8:13 pm
Great post, Ken. I was waiting for someone to see the description of the switching that was done yesterday and act like it was the same switching that has been done for most of the past season and a quarter.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:16 pm
Damn Marvin
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
8:17 pm
yowzers…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
8:18 pm
Joe pulling up from East Saint…
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
8:22 pm
Keep shooting JJ
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:23 pm
Noah looks like Splinter from the Ninja Turtles
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:24 pm
Marvin’s shooting form looks good but he misses soooooo many jumpers. I don’t understand it.
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
8:31 pm
marvin lmao
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:31 pm
Marvin stuffed. thats the 1st 2nite lol
BONE
December 19th, 2009
8:32 pm
Nique with the heat check lol
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
8:34 pm
beautiful…
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
8:34 pm
NICE D!
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
8:36 pm
Can we sustain this intensity?
Sure hope so, it’s great to watch.
JB
December 19th, 2009
8:42 pm
Teague please stop shooting threes
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
8:48 pm
As Clark Kellogg might say…. this team has “spurtability”.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
8:50 pm
those NBA rankings look championship worthy…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
8:57 pm
Spurtability…. Sautee, I think a good description for this team…
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
9:03 pm
It seems like the Bulls are going right at Crawford every time down right now.
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
9:03 pm
We missed Josh energy on the court to finished the 1st half…
So as I type this, Joe hits a big 3 to push the lead back to 10….
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
9:04 pm
Correction I meant 8 pt lead…
BONE
December 19th, 2009
9:06 pm
Marvin man why can’t you hit a shot
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
9:08 pm
Hawks look a step slow in the 1st half. They were able to get the lead behind Joe hot hand. Hopefully they will pick up the pace in the 3rd qtr b/c the Bulls are ready to fold…
vava74
December 19th, 2009
9:13 pm
we should be losing this game but we are not. thank the bulls’ poor FT shooting.
our defense was putrid on the 2nd quarter and our offense stagnant. we need a major jolt during the half time speech in order to make another 3rd quarter run.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:17 pm
bulls look ready to compete… vital that the Hawks come out an assert themselves in the 3rd…
hock
December 19th, 2009
9:20 pm
Every night the best player on the other team is Notsomarvelous Marvin. Why the Hawks resigned this worthless piece of crap is a good mystery.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
9:22 pm
Second game of a back to back, and the Hawks are in control, even if they are only up 6. Lets show some spurtability in the 3rd quarter.
As far as Marvin is concerned, I dont expect him to average 15-20 ppg. All I want is for him to play good defense, rebound, and make those shots at key moments. That 3 would have pushed the lead to 9. He has a really good stroke, but he still misses key shots.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:23 pm
Chicago looking to take advantage of the switch…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:24 pm
thats all on you Josh… bad shot.. bad decision on the defensive end…
BONE
December 19th, 2009
9:24 pm
See why does Josh shoot those long 2’s? Damn drive to the rim
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:28 pm
dont let him bytch you Woody… thats a bs call…
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
9:30 pm
JJ makes some tough shots. But sometimes he needs to know when to give it up.
Hawks are letting the Bulls back in it
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:32 pm
Joe is going to have to guard Rose…
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
9:34 pm
We’re SO different on D without Josh.
KevinA
December 19th, 2009
9:35 pm
back to no balance – standing around, ISO
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:39 pm
horrible shot…
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
9:39 pm
No one moving a damned muscle on offense right now. JJ standing still, his teammates following his lead.
Good move by Al.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:39 pm
take the ball to the cup.. bulls in penalty…
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
9:41 pm
I hope Josh can contribute in the 4th quarter. We need him out there.
I like how Al has stepped it up though. JJ needs to pass the ball around though, because he is not as hot as he was in the first quarter.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:42 pm
take the ball out of Joe’s hands and put him in the post… we’re to predictable on offense right now…
northcyde
December 19th, 2009
9:42 pm
Let’s see if Woody trusts Teague enough to put him back in. Tight game. Smoove in foul trouble. So let’s see if the kid gets in.
KevinA
December 19th, 2009
9:47 pm
bring in Josh and Teague – lite a fire
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:53 pm
c’mon Marvin step up…
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
9:54 pm
smh marvin
You know you're a groupie if...
December 19th, 2009
9:55 pm
“We’re SO different on D without Josh.”
The Bulls have scored more points per minute with Josh on the floor than when he’s off tonight. Someone not drooling over Josh person would say “We’re SO different when Josh plays like this.” A groupie ignores the facts and blindly applauds his boy.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:56 pm
why not drive brother?
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
9:58 pm
what a rebound by Josh… how did he grab that? Marvin take notes…
Joe w/ the ole’ school move…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
9:58 pm
Yes sir… Joe got it going tonight… Thank goodness…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:00 pm
we gonna have to put them away with defense…
You know you're a hater if...
December 19th, 2009
10:01 pm
“c’mon Marvin step up…”
“smh marvin”
“what a rebound by Josh… how did he grab that? Marvin take notes…”
But no cred for Marvin crashing the boards and playing stifling D all night? He brings the D every night and the boards as necessary, in other words when Josh is in foul trouble or him and Al are having trouble. But the HATERS will ignore what he brings and just post $h!t about him every time he does anything wrong.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:02 pm
eeewww…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:02 pm
Jo Jo Jooooooe Johnson…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:04 pm
quote man…
check the archives… i give cred to Marvin but he’s played weak tonight, defense has been par; grabbed boards on the way down… guys have been jumping up his back…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:06 pm
Marvin 25:58 Hawks -10…. Josh 17:54 Hawks +13….
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:06 pm
you know you haven’t been watching the game if…
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
10:06 pm
You can always tell when a certain blogger is at his parents house and is bored.
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:07 pm
“The Bulls have scored more points per minute with Josh on the floor than when he’s off tonight.”
Marvin 25:58 Hawks -10…. Josh 17:54 Hawks +13….
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:08 pm
mmm… he on..
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:09 pm
not josh night huh
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:12 pm
Hawks gonna win 7 straight tonite!
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:13 pm
Nice move by Bibby…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:14 pm
Josh Smith.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:16 pm
murda she wrote… murda sheeee wrote…
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:16 pm
Williams back in. Here come the Bulls. Williams SUX!!
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:19 pm
there ya go J… take it to the rack…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:19 pm
killa.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:20 pm
good d Marvin… shyt… good d…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:21 pm
hmm…
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:21 pm
boooooooooooo
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:24 pm
man marvin is horrible
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:24 pm
Joe shoulda passed that to Bibby
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:24 pm
Why did Joe shoot a fade away with Hinrich on him…
ISO-Joe
December 19th, 2009
10:24 pm
Does Woody know any other plays?
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
10:25 pm
This is why the hawks will not get past the 2nd round. Close games and absolutely zero offensive plan. Iso Joe all the way
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:25 pm
thats his shot… fade away gives you a better look at the basket…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:26 pm
damn good d…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:26 pm
Great defense by Joe to deny Rose the ball…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:26 pm
Joe All defense… !
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:27 pm
GREAT D!!!
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:27 pm
mannnnnn
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:28 pm
Good defense by the Hawks to force over time…
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
10:28 pm
Wow…got back just in time to see the end of regulation. Unbelievable defense by everyone on the floor.
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:29 pm
if noah fouls out its over
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:29 pm
Don’t pass the ball Joe. Cripes, there are four other guys on your team
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:30 pm
Bibby please give me something on the defensive end…
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
10:31 pm
I’m not feelin the 1-on-1 ball with JJ playing 48 minutes…
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:32 pm
Woody call a play…
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:32 pm
Pass the ball Joe!!!!
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:32 pm
Bibby… run a set… play pg
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:33 pm
man josh is trippin
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:33 pm
Man Josh has been horrendous
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:33 pm
Why didnt Woody put Crawford back in for the overtime period…
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:33 pm
joe is trying to be superman…lets run a play
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:34 pm
Woody wonders why he has no contract extension. This is why. These guys win without any coaching.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:35 pm
Josh WTF. STOP shooting
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
10:35 pm
All you need to see here is that Bibby is not even running the point in OT…This team is winning on sheer talent
And JS just bricked one
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:35 pm
Put Jamal back in
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:36 pm
game over
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:36 pm
This will be the worst loss of the year . Smith and Williams have given nothing.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:36 pm
Get Josh out the damn game
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:37 pm
Crawford should always be in, and Marvin out.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:38 pm
Man they are not running any plays
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:38 pm
Rod Josh is the one who has been throwin up super bricks
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:39 pm
They ought to trade Maaavin for a bag of old balls.
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:40 pm
BONE,
I understand that. He is having a bad game. Marvin always has bad games.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:40 pm
Josh Smith!!!
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:40 pm
clean up man! Ray Lewis…
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
10:41 pm
ISO Joe for the last play?
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:41 pm
Bone,
That’s why Josh should be in the game. He brings so much more than scoring. Marvin brings nothing.
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
10:41 pm
Great D by Bibby off the switch, unbelievable anticipation by Josh to recognize what Deng was going to do with the mismatch.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:42 pm
im sure they will blitz Joe… someone is gonna have to make a shot…
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:42 pm
Bulls playing well, but Hawks made this game tougher than it should have been.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:43 pm
Joe choked
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:43 pm
Damn.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:43 pm
Memphis V. Kansas
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:43 pm
So much for running no offense amd depending on Joe.
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:44 pm
I love Joe, but you put the ball in Crawford’s hand at the end of the game. He has a history of game winning shots.
Kiki
December 19th, 2009
10:45 pm
Missed the layup!!
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:45 pm
Cheating piece of garbage Rose had a great game even if he has the IQ of a turnip..
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:45 pm
Joe has showed the ability to score at will tonight.. rolled a big number.. kept us in this game…
why wouldnt he take the last shot?
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:46 pm
Bibby passed up an open shot
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:46 pm
Ahhh…… Hawks lost!
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:46 pm
What a crappy effort. These guys better stop reading their press clippings.
BONE
December 19th, 2009
10:46 pm
Jordan passed ot to Kerr to win the finals big dave. you gotta trust your teammates
niremetal
December 19th, 2009
10:47 pm
Joe had the look he wanted on the next-to-last play. Just didn’t convert.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:47 pm
damn good battle…
Melvin
December 19th, 2009
10:47 pm
Another loss to a subpar team…..dang it…
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
10:47 pm
Bulls deserve it, they wanted it more. Hawks slept through the 2nd half and OT, and that includes their coach.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:47 pm
Bone…
he had a layup…
rimmed out…
Sautee
December 19th, 2009
10:48 pm
Live by the ISO……
jean
December 19th, 2009
10:48 pm
marvin williams is garbage…joe is a selfish pice of sh”t woody is dumb for not leaving crawford in
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:48 pm
bigdave,
Because Joe has never shown he is a clutch player besides maybe one game in the Boston series. I would rather Bibby or Jamal take the last shot. Just my opinion.
J.J.M.
December 19th, 2009
10:49 pm
smh no faith in the other players
mark
December 19th, 2009
10:49 pm
Joe is an allstar, not a SUPERSTAR. He chokes time and time again.
hock
December 19th, 2009
10:49 pm
Great teams don’t lose this game. But great teams don’t have a stiff like Marvin starting for them. They need help at forward big time.
Kiki
December 19th, 2009
10:49 pm
JJ scored 40 pts, and missed the one that mattered the most.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:50 pm
thats what i dont understand… we ran nothing late in the 4th… just 1on1 from everyone…
we have to call something and execute half court late in games other than iso’s or it will bite us come playoff times…
mark
December 19th, 2009
10:50 pm
I know Crawford can hit big shots, not Joe!
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2009
10:50 pm
The end of the game should never include Marvin Williams offensively. Jamal should always be on the floor to take the defensive pressure off of Joe.
buick59
December 19th, 2009
10:50 pm
Has Joe Johnson EVER made a clutch shot at the end of a game? I sure can not remember. But they continue to give it to him, not Crawford or even Bibby. This team is a 2nd round playoff casualty. But by Atlanta standards that is considered excellent.
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
10:51 pm
if u say so Rod… dont know what evidence supports this… but he’s hit some big shots tonight when we needed buckets…
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:52 pm
Hawks lost but I don’t feel too bad about this game. Hawks were bound to lose sometime. Now they just have to get a win versus Minny.
Don’t think Hawks passed the ball enough tonight.
mark
December 19th, 2009
10:52 pm
Joe missed big shots late in the fourth and in overtime. Maybe we should not resign him and go after a Great player.
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
10:54 pm
Come playoffs, when you can’t just blow the other team out, you have to figure out to win and execute your plays. The Hawks don’t have any plays late in games, and that will cost them in a 2nd round series against one of the east big three. These guys remind me of the early-mid 90’s hawks. Talented but won’t get over the hump against the elite.
Kiki
December 19th, 2009
10:55 pm
A superstar do not miss under pressure. JJ is the best player in trhis team, an all-star, but NOT a clutch superstar
northcyde
December 19th, 2009
10:55 pm
JJ has hit like 12 or 13 shots that has either tied or won a game. Da hell you people talking about? Bibby should’ve taken the 3, but hesitated. Crawford has missed more game winning or game tying shots than anybody has in the last 5 years.
We can’t win them all. This was a grind it out game that we just lost.
What you guys should be complaining about, is how the Bulls outscored us 38 – 29 in the 4th quarter and in OT.
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:56 pm
Look at it this way. Bulls needed overtime and a 3 point advantage to win this game on their own home floor.
kwooden1
December 19th, 2009
10:56 pm
Tough game, hate to lose!! Looks like the 15 assists and 3-19 by Marvin and Smoove did us in. Sound like the Bulls fought hard though, have to give them credit for not giving up down 7 with 4mins to go.
GO HAWKS!!
Wabe
December 19th, 2009
10:56 pm
Just a bad game. Don’t really make too much of it. Rebound in Minny and then redeem ourselves in Denver.
northcyde
December 19th, 2009
10:57 pm
This was through feb of last year, so these stats aren’t up to date. But they give you an idea who makes shots, and who doesn’t.
http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
Blast
December 19th, 2009
10:58 pm
Funny so called Hawks fans on the blog tonight. Blaming Joe, Josh, Woody and the crowd for this loss. Posting under different screen names. Get the hellout of here!
northcyde
December 19th, 2009
11:00 pm
Crybaby fans.
A team can’t win every game. So why trash your best player on a night where he goes 16- 32 and scores 40 points . . on the road . . when everybody else basically couldn’t hit shots?
But the fans haven’t cried in a long time.
LOL. . . watch Ken Strickland come on, talking about how Woody coached differently . . lol.
kwooden1
December 19th, 2009
11:05 pm
When’s Joe Smith coming back, we can use his toughness and decision making?
bigdave
December 19th, 2009
11:07 pm
northcyde… Blast… kwooden…
cosign…
Mychelfromatl
December 19th, 2009
11:07 pm
Hmmmm…..
**Comes in to gauge reaction**
**Not surprised that the same fools are up to their usual antics**
**Leaves SMH**
kwooden1
December 19th, 2009
11:08 pm
northcyde good link. Looks like Joe and Jamal are almost exactly the same.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2009
11:08 pm
Guys, lets not carried away here. Boston lost at home last night to the Sixers. It happens.
That being said, plenty of blame to go around. When the games are close, Woody has no offensive sets. Its give the ball to JJ, and let him create. I can’t wait to see what he does in the playoffs.
Also, I dont know why Sund gave Marvin 5 years, $40 mil, because both Mo Evans and JJ get minutes at SF, and it looks like Marvin has very little impact on games. One game he had 29 pts, and another game he had 15 rebounds. Other than that, he disappears, still trying to find his aggressiveness. 4 pts, 7 rebs in 31 minutes, shooting 1-7. That money might have been better off going to Chills.
And Josh needs to stop taking those long 2’s. Its like as long as its not a 3, he thinks its okay to shoot it. He did have a great defensive play in OT that gave us a chance to win though.
And we got nothing from Bibby. He passed up an open 3 at the end of OT, waiting for JJ to be superman. Not to mention his defense sucked, which is a big reason why Rose had a career high 32 pts (and Josh wasnt there to make up for his bad defense).
Overall, a lot of us predicted this would be a loss, and we are still 19-7, which is still great. Hopefully, we can turn it aroud and start another winning streak.
Blast
December 19th, 2009
11:09 pm
Marvin and Josh makes one extra bucket each and Hawks would have won this game.
a-jax
December 19th, 2009
11:11 pm
Hey, it blows because you can see it coming from a mile away. 2nd round and out. They may not get swept like last year but they are winning mostly on talent. This a game that an elite team puts away when they lead by 7 in the fourth. I give the Bulls credit, but if the Hawks want to be elite, they can’t blow these games.
Grandad
December 19th, 2009
11:11 pm
I haven’t read all the remarks but I can say this; Joe didn’t choke.
Woodson did. It’s like Ken Strickland says repeatedly “woody ball”.
No plays coming out of TO’s, no player movement or ball reversal. I’m not jumping on the guy…I just for the life of me cannot figure him out. Nique said all the starters were rested from last nite so right away I knew the bench wouldn’t see as many minutes.
When the other team knows Joe is gonna get the ball and take every shot down the stretch, don’t you reckon they can set the defense against Joe.
One last item, we must give the kid [Rose] credit for a winning performance.
I know, I know, it’s one game but all those one games have a pattern.
Use all the weapons [Jamal] at your disposal.
Joe showed up.
Josh did not play well…did he choke ??? No.
Woodson administrated the game poorly…choke ??? No. Pattern ??? Yes.
Team=loss just as Team=win streak.
Key > Team !
Kiki
December 19th, 2009
11:19 pm
Does anyone think that maybe what Marvin needs to be the player we expected is to be somewhere else? i’m getting frustrated with him; sometimes he shows flashes of quality and then fades out…
preston
December 19th, 2009
11:22 pm
Woodson has done an excellent job this year with the hawks, but this was one of his worst called games going down the stretch. It was obvious that the bulls were going to tightened up on Joe, just as we tightened up on Rose, but for whatever reasons plays were constantly being called for Joe, and nothing else……and he took a lot of tough shots that didn’t fall. The Bulls, on the other hand had their shooters on the perimeter to hit open shots when Rose was being blanketed by the hawks. Why did we not employ this same theory with Crawford? There was zero reasons for your second best shooter not to be on the floor in the final minutes of the game or overtime. The hawks played great for 3/4 of the game, but when it came down to execution, this one is on Woody.
Blast
December 19th, 2009
11:25 pm
O’ Brien. 11:08 post. Cosign all the way.
preston
December 19th, 2009
11:27 pm
It kinda makes me wonder why Crawford wasnt in the game for the last few minutes of the game, and most of the overtime? What was Woodson trying to prove……..Marvin wasn’t doing anything to waarent him playing down the stretch instead of Jamaal. Whatever Woodson’s reason were, hopefully he learned, and we won’t see that again.
RLP
December 19th, 2009
11:30 pm
Missed the game tonight. This puts the record for Ken S.’s prediction at 5-1.
keno
December 19th, 2009
11:46 pm
I don’t think Joe choked. He gets a pass from me tonight since he came ready to play on offense and defense. The Hawks loss this game because the rest of the starters were sleep walking through most of the game and the bench was terrible. And Woody gets a F tonight for his coaching. I watched the game on WGN and even they knew all the plays were ISO Joe. He can’t make ‘em all.
rusty
December 19th, 2009
11:56 pm
LETS GET SERIOUS,WE WERE TREATED TO ISO JOE OFFENSE,JOE NEEDED TO
HAVE A BIG NIGHT,NEEDED TO GET HIS EGO FED LAST NIGHT IN THE INTERVIEW
YOU COULD SEE HE WASNT HAPPY NOT BEING THE BIG STAR.WHEN HE PLAYS LIKE HE DID TO NIGHT OUR OFFENSE GOES DOWN THE TOILET BOWL,THERE WAS NO BALL MOVEMENT & WOODY WOODPECKER LETS HIM PLAY LIKE THIS. I GOT TO GIVE HIM CREDIT HE WAS MAKING SHOTS AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR TEAM
UNSEFISHNESS WHICH ENABLES US TO PLAY GREAT. WOODY HAD AN AWFUL
COACHING NIGHT,EVEN IF THE HAWKS ARE WINNING HE IS A LOUSY COACH.HERES TO ALL OF OUR FANS WHO THINK JOE IS GREAT & WOODY SHOULD BE COY
Big Ump
December 19th, 2009
11:58 pm
Blast
I agree with you about these so called Hawks fan. Hawks have nothing to be ashamed about. Seem like these so called fans have 7 games they can brag about and the real fans have 19 games that we can brag about. A real fan support the team win or lose. Blast you can’t really be mad at them. Because like Billy Preston said you got to let the bad guys (Haters) win every once in a while.
Ken Sugiura
December 20th, 2009
12:06 am
a couple things – Joe Smith is not with the team, so my guess is Indiana on the 26th.
JJ said he thought the team ran out of gas. he and Al Horford both mentioned Josh Smith’s foul trouble as being a factor. I read what was posted about the Bulls scoring more efficiently when he was in the game, and that might be true. And I think the Hawks were up four when he left in the third quarter and up two when he came back, so it’s not like it was a collapse. Regardless, I’d think that had he been in in the third quarter, chances would have been good that the lead would have been extended.
I go back and forth on how much Johnson shot the ball. On the one hand, it was working. Too, he was trying to distribute. And as for him taking the last shots, I think that’s what teams with players of his caliber generally do. As has been pointed out, if one of those two shots at the end of regulation had gone in, it would have worked.
On the other hand, 32 out of 87 shots (36.8 percent) is a lot, particularly when Jamal Crawford and Horford seemed to be on their games, too.
Ken Sugiura
December 20th, 2009
12:07 am
one other thing – players were very disappointed in the locker room afterwards. i thought they would have been more accepting of it – “You have to lose at some point,” etc. – but they were pretty down, feeling like they gave it away.
Ken Sugiura
December 20th, 2009
12:31 am
If you’re interested, and awake, game story with quotes should be up soon online.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-streak-ends-at-248250.html
Anthony
December 20th, 2009
12:44 am
Same ‘ole Hawks. Lost to one of the leagues worst teams. Hawks still suck on the road, just as they have in years past.
Anthony
December 20th, 2009
12:45 am
Enter your comments here
Anthony
December 20th, 2009
12:46 am
one other thing – players were very disappointed in the locker room afterwards. i thought they would have been more accepting of it – “You have to lose at some point,” etc. – but they were pretty down, feeling like they gave it away.”
If they cared they would have played better.
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
12:46 am
In a tight gm that went into overtime, the Bulls moved the ball around, ran plays and got easy and consistent scoring opportunities. We on the other had, resorted to WOODY BALL, especially ISO Joe, and nothing else. When JJ hit his shots, we maintained a lead, but when he couldn’t, we had nothing else to go to. We didn’t even try to run a single pick and roll or play. Everything was one on one, and Rose made a concerted effort to single Bibby out and take him inside for all of those easy short jumpers.
FOR THOSE WHO ALLOW THEIR PERSONAL PASSIONS FOR WOODSON TO GET IN THE WAY OF ANYTHING THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE, THIS GM WAS A PERFECT ILLUSTRATION OF WHY SUND WANTS TO WAIT UNTIL THE PLAYOFFS ARE OVER BEFORE EVEN CONSIDERING A CONTRACT EXTENSION. I expect you to either pretend you didn’t notice what happened or didn’t happen, blame one of the players, especially Marvin, or attack anyone that makes an intelligent comment or observation about the obvious.
Don’t get me wrong, Woodson didn’t do a bad job of coaching overall. However, his coaching down the stretch, especially his inability to make adjustments and come up with something other than ISO Joe, left a lot to be desired. Like GRANDAD said earlier, in the playoffs you have to play the same team for a minimum of 4gms. The ability of a HC to adjust, utilize strategy, take advantage of mismatches and be creative are essential. After Noah got his 5th foul, we didn’t use Horford once after that to try and get him out of the gm.
However, it’s just one gm, and we can regroup and start another streak.
Fritz
December 20th, 2009
12:53 am
I agree with those who said this one’s on the Coach. No question Crawford should have been on the floor in the critical end game. But you Marvin=haters out there are wrong in suggesting that Marvin should not have been on the floor – if you watched the game you should have seen that he made several critical plays on the defensive end that kept us in the game. The strategy I don’t understand is why Coach had Bibby on the floor (at least on the defensive end). The Bulls worked mercilessly to find him and exploited him. Even when we kept switching and trying to rotate Bibby to the farthest point away from the ball, the Bulls were smart enough to swing it back and find him. He cannot defend and by the way Josh saved him on that charge on the block in OT.
One other thing strategy-wise: coming out of the last time out down 3 I didn’t understand why Coach didn’t put Mo in to give us a fourth three point shooter on the floor. Del Negro didn’t have to be a brain surgeon to overplay Joe but having 4 three point threats out there would have made it difficult to double. Yes, Bibby should have shot when he was open,
Mike is Back
December 20th, 2009
1:42 am
I didn’t catch but the end of overtime of tonight’s game…yeah I agree, you could have went with Crawford or Bibby on that last shot…I had no problem with Woody’s decision. You go with your All Star going to take that BIG SHOT…if can’t count on him…what good is he to you. I would have like to seen the clock ran down before we took that first shot…if you don’t score…you are going loose anyway.
It would be hard for me to complain after witnessing that monster game against UTAH at Phillips…they are still playing great basketball…however things just got little tight on my 10 game prediction. lol
The HAWKS got to regroup and keep on moooooooooooooooving…don’t stop like the hands on the clock.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike is Back
December 20th, 2009
1:44 am
Screw that last post up. Lol
GOOD NIGHT!!!!!
Sleepy
December 20th, 2009
2:04 am
NorthCyde so what are you saying by posting that link ? Crawford has made 11 game winning shots and JJ has hit 12 lol
What we do know is that for the second game this season the Bulls never really had a answer for Crawford and while JJ had it going he was working awfully hard for them points and in the end had 32 shots for 40 points while jamal Crawford the second best scorer on the team attempted just 10 shots . But I dont blame JJ I blame Woody for not coming up with some type of plan to get Crawford involved .
Crawford is one of the best 4th quarter players in the league and has ben one for the last several years and even our GM says that one of the reasons he got Crawford was because of how good he is in the 4th HOWEVER
Crawford was in with at the start of the 4th quarter and could not get one shot attempt off the first 4 minutes of the quarter Bibby comes in and and he is immediately is setup for a three point shot .
Even now when Crawford is in with the second unit his touches are shrinking as the other guys are now shot happy .
There is just no excuses really for us to not be using him more tonight was like Woody had a brain fart and thought it was 2007 again .
37 minutes and 10 shots just seems wrong to me based on how the game was going .
Sleepy
December 20th, 2009
2:10 am
Woody says
“We stared looking to Joe too much,” Woodson said. “He bailed us out the whole game. We just didn’t have it then down the stretch. Josh and Marvin struggled tonight. They just didn’t make their shots.”
yet Crawford got 1 shot in the 4th ? You are the coach Woody call a play and get someone else a shot it would at least give Joe a rest on offense .
dickleo20
December 20th, 2009
2:29 am
Change your policy in minutes and save on your Auto Insurance http://bit.ly/5e4fQZ
Brian
December 20th, 2009
4:00 am
folks… The Hawks are the Utah Jazz of the eastern conference. Which means they will win lots of home games, but will often come up empty on the road. It’s just a big con game they play to you excited and the bring you back down to reality with a really embarrassing loss like tonight. This is a 2nd tier team. They have never been better than that since being in Atlanta and they will never be better than that because…. Well, they’re the Hawks. A win at home only team.
Hawks v. Bulls
December 20th, 2009
4:00 am
“I thought down towards the end, we ran out of gas,” guard Joe Johnson said, who scored a season-high 40 points in 48 minutes. “We got away from what got us the lead. I think we got a little complacent. They made their run and we never gained the momentum back.”
Come on guys I thought this team was past these things. This isn’t an old team, young guys should not be running out of gas!!! And complacent …. I don’t even want to touch on that one, you just embarrassed yourselves if you’re getting complacent because you’ve gotten off to a good start.
HawksFan11
December 20th, 2009
4:15 am
This is why the hawks doesnt have a big fan. Because of u stupid ass fans. One day yall are like hawks for the title then soon as they lose yall say hawks suck they gone lose in the 2nd round again. I mean the celtics jus gave a gm away to phila which we beat on the road. The lakers needed a desperate 3 by kobe to beat the heat who we beat.. Yall act like people cant lose, damn they not gone go undefeated. Gosh, either u on the bandwagon or not, but keep riding one day then hop off the next.
HawksFan11
December 20th, 2009
4:17 am
*dont have a big fan base
Brian
December 20th, 2009
4:22 am
Those other teams have got to the big dance. The Hawks haven’t accomplished squat in the playoffs.
Crashing the Glass
December 20th, 2009
4:36 am
They weren’t going to win them ALL…
http://crashingtheglass.com/2009/526/hawks-chicago
Brian
December 20th, 2009
5:53 am
They’re not going to do anything but win at home and lose on the road like all pretenders do.
Clyde
December 20th, 2009
7:50 am
FIRE WOODY
Ken Sugiura
December 20th, 2009
8:10 am
HawksFan11 – funny stuff.
jean
December 20th, 2009
8:18 am
iz amazing how scrubs like mo evans are takein shots away from craw what hap to craw getting the ball of screens….this standin in the corner spotting up is not his game…he needs isos and he passes of isos unlike joe
doc
December 20th, 2009
8:45 am
i know woody says he doesnt pay much attention to the plus minus stat; in case he is interested marvin was a -17 last night and crawford and zaza 7 and 8 on the plus side. odd horford was -7 in spite of his efforts. hard to say why crawford wasnt on the floor to at least give jj an option if he were so moved instead of marvin. it didnt mean rose was without jj on him, as jj wasnt playing him man up in their switching d. wonder what match up bothered woody enough that he didnt make the move for “defensive” purposes if that is why marvin was on the floor?
i would hope even the hire woody folks are pausing to wonder why more fire power wasnt in the game. by the numbers provided by northcyde neither one is great in that situation shooting just 25%; it just seems crawford might clear some space for jj and if they jump jj, jj can dish it out to an alone crawford.
doc
December 20th, 2009
8:52 am
you know it is much more freeing to be in neither the hire woody or fire woody group because i can be free to really look at the game without a particular bias. you know the hire woody guys were quiet last night and the fire woody guys active tonight, terribly to have to be so predictable. seems neither woody nor the team delivered down the stretch last night and lost their will to a lesser team that wanted it more, not enough critical stops either when jj missed, one or two. i was surprised how they gave up their lead so easily in the fourth.
KevinA
December 20th, 2009
10:43 am
A look at balance for last nights game.
Guards 24-52
Swing 2-10
Post 10-25
This game looked alot like one from 2007. Poor ball movement, ISO and guard dominated shooting. No matter how well JJ plays, taking 32 shots is not a good game plan. Win or lose.
rusty
December 20th, 2009
10:59 am
it seems every time we lose we play iso joe
ILL-logical
December 20th, 2009
11:14 am
“it seems every time we lose we play iso joe”
Let the walls of the church say AMEN!
It was a loss and now its time to start another winning streak. .500 on this road trip is an attainable goal.
Sleepy
December 20th, 2009
11:35 am
The sky is not falling I just get bothered by the simple things that we lose games on sometimes .
The first time we played the Bulls both Crawford and JJ took 16 shots .
Crawford had 29 points
JJ had 12 points
In that game we saw that the Bulls clearly had a problem matching up with Crawford
In this game JJ took 32 shots while Crawford took just 10
We saw that Hinrich was clearly frustrated by Crawford and even got a tech after the refs called a foul when Crawford initiated the contact. We didnt exploit that matchup at all instead chose to just give the ball to Joe the entire game and have everyone stand around and watch .
There are plenty of games left to play but i feel as if this is a possible 1st rd playoff matchup and we should be taking the time to use some of these games as a opportunity to see what other players on the team can do. Last nights game was a flashback to a couple of years ago .
JeJe
December 20th, 2009
12:14 pm
People, please don’t make excuses for Marvin!
He is young and has potential!
If he goes 5-249 in his next 40 games, it doesn’t matter, because he is young and has potential!
hate this
December 20th, 2009
12:15 pm
We will go on 5 game winning streaks all yr and then lose to miserable teams like NOH and Knicks.
Lose in 2nd round
hate this
December 20th, 2009
12:16 pm
Took Joe 32 shots to get 40 points
LOL
You see Kobe and Wade get 30 points and you wonder how they scored all those points. Joe has to take over a third of our shots just to get 40
Melvin
December 20th, 2009
1:01 pm
Simple math to last night game. We live by Joe and we die by Joe. I think any coach would accept those results. To win or lose the game by the hands of their best player….
Ree Roe
December 20th, 2009
1:09 pm
Very disappointing loss against an inferior Bulls team. No excuses, just lack of execution down the stretch. SMH
-REEcently Roe?
dub366
December 20th, 2009
1:19 pm
Chi-101 & Joe Johnson- 40 now you see was M Woodson don’t have a contract. WHY TURN THIS GAME INTO ONE MAN SHOW.
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
1:25 pm
I don’t expect Woodson to overcome all of his issues overnight, so I’m not surprised at the way things turned out last night, but I am dissappointed. When pressured, in addition to resorting to WOODY BALL, he tends to start paying more attention to the refs and less attention to his team and what needs to be done. That can be corrected, but it’s up to him to recognize the problem and make the conscience effort to correct that problem.
We can complain about him playing his key players so many mins, but DelNegro played 4 of his key players in the mid 40MPG. However, considering how much energy and effort JJ expended keeping DRose from even touching the ball at the end of regulation, it would have made more sense to have Crawford in the gm controlling the ball and use the 3pt threat of JJ, Bibby and Evans to spread the DEF.
This is an example of him not being able to focus on the gm and what his team needed, or make intelligent adjustments and/or decisions.
(1) Woodson recognized early in the 1st quarter the Bulls were targeting Bibby and took him out. With Crawford and Teague defending and pressuring their PG’s, they were forced to become a perimeter team, which allowed us to get several sizeable leads. When he put Bibby back in the gm he had us switch to his beloved constantly switching DEF, which allowed their frontline players to become very active scoring inside baskets because their guards were able to take advantage of Bibby’s poor DEF to penetrate and dish or convert on short jumpers in the lane. If he wanted Bibby in the gm down the stretch, it would have been a much better idea to go OFF/DEF with him. It’s not like it’s a strategy he’s never unheard of.
(2) With JJ expending so much energy successfully denying DRose an opportunity to even touch the ball in the critical last secs of the gm, Woodson should have made an adjustment. In the last mins of the gm, on OFF, 3pt shooters MBibby, MEvans, JJ and Crawford should have been in the gm to spread the DEF, and Crawford should have controlled the ball instead of JJ.
(3) Horford was successful in getting 3 fouls on Noah in one quarter. After getting his 5th, we didn’t go to Horford once the rest of the gm to try and foul him out.
These are issues, decision, adjustments and/or strategies that come under the heading of PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS. This team has reached the level of maturity, and has the talent, to make the playoffs no matter who Sund has coach them. Woodson has the rest of the season to grow and reach the level of talent and maturity as a HC that he now has in his team.
We have another tough opponent coming up in Denver. Let’s see how he handles that gm, especially if it’s a close one down the stretch.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
1:50 pm
What gets me, is why no one ever mentions anything about DEFENSE when we lose games like these.
Why wasn’t Crawford in the game at the end of the 4th? Ummmm . . . because Rose was torching his azz maybe, just like he was doing Bibby? Cause that’s what was happening.
Woody gambled twice in the game. He gambled by going with his best offensive group, the Bibby – Crawford – JJ 3-guard lineup in the middle of the 4th quarter. Then he gambled by putting back in Marvin, trying to win the game via defense at the end.
8:18 left . . . Hawks up 4 when Bibby comes in for Marvin.
After Bibby hit his 2nd free throw with 4:19 left, the Hawks were up 9, and it looked like the lineup was going to get the job done. These are the following possessions:
- Deng makes shot . . Bibby misses on the other end ( Hawks up 7 )
- Smoove gets a block . . but Crawford has that bad offensive foul on the other end . . . Bibby ends up fouling Hinrich, because the Bulls quickly pushed the ball up the floor . . Hinrich hits 2 FTs ( Hawks up 5 )
- JJ has a pass stolen by Deng . . Hinrich hits a 3 pointer in the corner ( Hawks up 2 )
- Play called for Horford, but his misses the layup, but got his own rebound . . JJ hits a jumper at the left elbow ( because Salmons backed off of him, thinking he was going to pass to Bibby ) . . ( Hawks up 4 ) . . . exactly 2:00 to go.
- Chicago calls timeout . . . Woody put Marvin in the game, substituting for Crawford
So he put the unit back in that was his best defensive unit ( the starters ). Offensively, it was strictly ISO JJ.
In hindsight, maybe you do take out Bibby and leave Crawford in. But Crawford wasn’t any better defensively ( especially in his rotations ), than Bibby was. But you have to have a PG in the game, so taking both of them out isn’t an option.
In the 4th, Rose and Hinrich scored 17 of Chicago’s last 23 and 13 of their last 15 points. ( Rose 10 . . Hinrich 7 )
Unfortunately, the Hawks picked the 4th quarter to have their worst defensive quarter of the night, while most of the Hawks not having it going offensively, outside of JJ and Horford.
Everyone’s favorite son, Jeff Teague, managed to post a -10 plus/minus rating in 6 minutes of play.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
2:02 pm
northcyde,
If Woody wanted to put his best defensive players in the game, then he should have put Teague in the game for Bibby, because Bibby gave us nothing for the whole game. No offense, and no defense.
And in OT, he should have put Crawford in from early, and let him handle the ball. But instead, he had JJ handle the ball, the Hawks had no movement on offense,and everybody knew JJ was going to shoot.
The Hawks should win their first round series easily, but I would not be surprised if they struggle in the second round. Teams make adjustments, games are close, and you have to be able to execute. The Hawks have never been known for their execution.
But because these are the Hawks, watch them go out and put a beating on Denver lol
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
2:06 pm
Even with all of the complaints about Woodson, JJ, Marvin, Teague, Bibby and whoever, it’s really inspiring to know Hawk fans think this team is so good and so competitive we can find specific reasons for us losing on rare occassions.
These complaints tell me that expectations among Hawk fans are running high, and that’s a good thing. Sometimes you have to allow a HC to make the decisions he thinks will work, even though they didn’t. We should raise our biggest complaints when it becomes a habit, and so far this season, it hasn’t been habitual. After all, no HC is perfect or has all of the answers for every situation. I’m looking for consistency from our HC, not perfection.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
2:25 pm
O’Brien . . Teague is not a good on the ball defender. He does have better awarenes than those two though. Teague on Rose or Hinrich is not a good matchup for him at all. And because Teague is the weaker offensive player than Bibby and Crawford, you pretty much had to go with those 2. Teague is going to have to do a lot more than excel in garbage time, to get legit PT when a game is close. When he was in the game, he had no shot at guarding Hinrich and/or Rose.
The hope for Teague, is that he can become a dependable penetrating PG that Woody can trust with the ball in his hands. But last night, he was very erratic in the few minutes he played. No way you could trust him last night.
As for putting Crawford in earlier in the OT, in hindsight, I can’t deny that.
Joe Mama's Mama?
December 20th, 2009
2:33 pm
Another of the many terrible losses this team has taken this year. Terrible, no two ways about it. Fire Sund, Woodson, and Ken Strickland !!
OH?
Thats right Ken Strickland doesn’t have a job! He’s a blog site Jockey…
What I cant understand is why cant Sund and the other GM’s thought out the NBA see Kens value and hire him as a head coach, assistant , scout, associate….something, any thing, to get him the hell away from here.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
2:40 pm
And don’t get it twisted people. We all know what we’re possibly going up against in the 2nd round.
- Orlando: D-Howard, Carter, Nelson . . deadly 3-point shooters
- Boston: Pierce, KG, Allen . . best defense in the league
- Cleveland: Lebron, Shaq . . host of 3 point shooters
I don’t care if we win 62 games and have the top seed in the East, the 2nd round matchup isn’t going to be easy at all. It’s going to be a WAR. All are battle-tested playoff teams.
Is there anybody here mentally sane?
December 20th, 2009
2:42 pm
For your information, Ken is not a head coach, assistant , scout, associate or anything more than some one who is trying to learn and has taken the wrong path. He trying to pretend like he has some knowledge when everyone can see that he doesn’t. He just doesn’t want to be embarrassed so how about being nice to him.
Hes not as stupid as he seems, and hes really a nice person. Dont be mean to him. If you must do what most people do, ignore him, and move on to more interesting conversations.
Lets call that the, ” mentally sane rule”
Everything ken says is not stupid, and hes not really dumb. We all had to start some where.
Rod from College Park
December 20th, 2009
2:48 pm
Ken Strickland,
First thing we have agreed on in a long time. No doubt Crawford should have been in the game and should have been the primary ball handler.
Northcyde,
While I understand your defense for offense thing, I personally don’t think the Hawks will win many games against top level teams due to defense. Our two best defenders are Joe and Josh. Everyone else is average to below average. Horford is good but with the Cleveland and Orlando’s of the league has problems defensively. We will have to outscore teams in the playoffs to be successful. Jamal Crawford is our second best offensive player and no matter what should always be on the floor in crunch time.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
3:16 pm
northcyde, Good breakdown.
Not to lose perspective,the length of the season is about seeding, refining, positioning against perspective opponents. From where I sit, we are right about where I expected and not far from where the experts projected.
I expect between 50-53 wins and a 4th seed. the experts project 44-47 and 4th-7th seed. This team is nice offensively but plays good defense as well.
I’m not bother by a tight loss to Chicago, Its a good experience to work on last second play clock management and over time perspective. Its was our first game as such,(at least that I remember), but come playoff time and down the stretch this type of game will be common place. This was a GREAT game in the sense that its a goal post, something to work on and perfect.
Of the decisions that could have be played different, I agree with the consensus that Crawford should have been in the game, and I also wonder why we did not force the ball and foul Noah out of the game as he had 5 fouls in the fourth.
Seems like Deng dominated us in the low post and no body else for the hawks could muster much offense. This troubles me because Deng is not the most dominating low post presence and wonder how Horford with hold up against better low post power.
We go to overtime and lose on their home court with the game still on the line at the second buzzer…. Ive got no complaints. You wont win them all. 5-1 stretch? Ill take it. My bet was 7-3 on the stretch. This team is still playing very well.
Like you, northcyde Im thinking about how are we going to be able to deal with either of the big three. Im sure last minute strategy and forced foul outs as well as ISO’s will be more keenly attended in a 5-7 game set than 1 game here or there during the course of the season.
This was a good game to help us get a early focus on what is sure to come later.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
3:21 pm
Rod from College Park, I dont think Horford is a good defender at all. Once Josh is out of the game its a 6 lane highway to the basket against Horford. that has been well discussed and documented in the pro circles.
He may be your favorite and he may be popular, but he not a great defender in the post.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
3:25 pm
Rod,
I still root for Marvin because he is a member of the Hawks, he is still young, and once in a while you see a glimpse of his potential. But he has been very disappointing this year, especially at his price tag.
As much as Woody talks about defense and rebounding, the Hawks will have a hard time beating the Celtics, Magic, or Cavs with our defense. The key is going to be our execution. We struggle, and Woody struggles in a half court grind it out game.
But until we get to the playoffs, I will enjoy the ride.
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
3:31 pm
Mr. Suguira as you well know HawksFan11 is Syb. As are several other
aliases/mult.personalities that are on the board today.
Syb why don’t you get a job as Woodson’s towel boy.
That way you could work your way up.
Sybil=TBOY.
Syb if K.S. is a blog site jockey, what does that make you?
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
3:31 pm
northcyde I concur, Defense is what will make or break us come playoffs.
1
L.A. Lakers
2
Chicago
3
Dallas
4
Washington
5
Orlando
6
Minnesota
7
Memphis
8
Atlanta
9
Indiana
10
San Antonio
CHICAGO IS PLAYING GREAT DEFENSE WHICH TOPPED OUR GREAT OFFENSE LAST NIGHT!
OFFENSE
1 Phoenix
2 Denver
3 Golden State
4 Atlanta
5 Toronto
6 Sacramento
7 L.A. Lakers
8 New York
9 Orlando
10 San Antonio
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
3:32 pm
AND IF I WANT TO HUG KENS NUTS WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?
GrandadSuatee/KenStrickland-Whats the difference?
December 20th, 2009
3:48 pm
Nothing!
GrandadSuatee/KenStrickland-Whats the difference?
December 20th, 2009
3:48 pm
Whats the difference?
Nothing
GrandadSuatee/KenStrickland
December 20th, 2009
3:49 pm
GrandadSuatee/KenStrickland-Whats the difference?GrandadSuatee/KenStrickland-Whats the difference?
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
4:06 pm
Syb:
You never disappoint.
Happy Holidays (Seriously!)
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
4:14 pm
Woodson’s contract expires June 30, 2010. General manager Rick Sund has said he’ll wait until the season ends to begin negotiations. This wouldn’t have been a big deal three years ago when the Hawks were awful and Woodson was sitting on a career record of 69-177. But it has the potential to become a big deal — or non-deal — now.
Because folks around the NBA don’t see Woodson as the guy who was 100-plus games under .500. They see him as the coach who rode out the 13-69 of 2004-2005 and now has the Hawks on pace to go 61-21. They’ll see him as a coach who held things together long enough for talent to gather around him and who knew what to do when finally he got it. (Which …
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
4:36 pm
GRANDAD, SAUTEE-you want to know how you can be positive you’ve made solid, well thoughout points, especially if it has anything to do with Woodson, either directly or indirectly? It’s when you get attacked in a series of ignorant posts featuring a bunch of unknown names.
He/she/it/they always, and I mean always, make a point of attacking the messenger, but never will he/she/it/they make an effort to address the message. That’s because the truth hurts, and instead of dealing with the cause of their pain(the truth/facts/reality) they focus their attack on the pain itself(the presenters of the truth/facts/reality.
This is an individual(s) that lacks the intellectual capacity to engage in intelligent debate and present an intelligent defense of their position. They also have a definite disregard for anyone who possesses that ability. As a result, they will always try to bring that individual down to their level by resorting to personal attacks, rather than trying to find logical ways to persent their position so that it wil at least appear to be well thoughout.
It’s not about hate for him/them, it’s about envy, selfesteem, and the fool actually deranged.
doc
December 20th, 2009
4:43 pm
truth, nice perspective above and about where i too think we will be. so, with that expectation i dont go into combustion mode with a single loss like last night.. i do think if all the galaxy comes together just right we could fall into the 3 spot. 53 to 55 wins ought to get woody a contract if his team continues to play had and doesnt cave in the playoffs. not to worried about it on either side. i think woody would stay if offered a good deal of 4 years as well as he knows what he has here. maybe by the end of the season he will have earned a top ten designation as a coach with a good contract.
folks it is becoming apparent that marvin might have lost something with his injury last year as he hasnt found anything close to his confidence he had last year. his throwing up an air ball after air ball is sick and he didnt work on his inside moves at all in the off season to improve his game from the looks of it. me id prefer the athleticism of chills at that price than marvin. poor decision there folks and he could have been had for less than we pay marvin is my guess just not at the low ball or we will get back to you mode they placed him in. others think in terms of wanting something out there that would be better, sadly he is still our property in the nba but he gets paid by someone else to work elsewhere. do you thing the greeks would allow a trade of marvin for chills straight up?
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
5:10 pm
Doc,
I also raised the same point, that at 5 years, almost $40 mil, Chills would have been a better option. Chills is more versatile; He doesnt need plays run for him, can handle the ball, and there were numerous games where he would get an important tip in, and important rebound etc. Marvin is nonexistent, with very little impact on games.
But Chills played more college ball compared to Marvin, so lets hope Marvin turns it around. Because I think we are stuck with Marvin for a while.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
5:34 pm
doc Im right on board with your assessment. Like you and others im looking at the season and playoff picture as a whole and not micro-analyzing from time out to time out – LOL
Actually, I dont think I can legitimately name five coaches better than Woodson in the NBA right now…I cant name five PF’s Better than Josh either.
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
5:36 pm
Truth-Serum
I think Bob Weiss and Ken Strickland will argue the point. Both have said they are much better coaches than Woodson.- LOL
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
6:01 pm
K.S.:
I am most happy to be asociated with yourself and Sautee.
TS:
I could easily name 5 better coaches than Woodson. I could name
5 asst. coaches that I think would be better as well. While we are at it I could name 5 college coaches who are better. There are HS coaches that can manage a bench, call better plays out of a TO, be more creative, less stubborn, less obtuse, better teachers of the game, and understand special game situations better than Woodson. Just because you can’t name one doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t. However, to be fair, Woodson ‘is’ making some progress. I also could name 5, even 10, worse coaches.
Side Note:
You don’t reckon last nite was a make Joe happy [all-star] game by design , do you?
Here lately, everyone had been sharing the wealth.
Joe has an ego as we all do!
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
6:09 pm
Just because Crawford and Teague aren’t considered great DEF stoppers, how can anyone with a clue believe it’s somehow better to rely on Bibby’s DEF? Would any of you say Bibby is a better on the ball defender, or better at fighting over picks or defending against fastbreaks?
rusty
December 20th, 2009
6:14 pm
josh, if you read this blog please realize even though you are great inspite of woody you have to keep your head together. you belong under the basket not out on the perimeter. you need to let the game come to you. joej you have all the money you will ever need & the hawks will give you a lot more commit to the team which means that you dont need to
take a lot of shots,you play so much better when you play in the flow of the game. playing
iso joe will not win anything we have a lot of good players & they have to be involved. plese commit to your team
Rufus1
December 20th, 2009
7:03 pm
JJ Audition
Joe was auditioning for the Bulls..He is trying to create buzz with certain teams. Joe wants a max deal and he needs a bidding war to get it. Watch how he performs in front of certain teams.
Blast
December 20th, 2009
7:08 pm
Big Ray,
You say Hawks always play well after a good practice, I say they usually play well after a disappointing loss. Glad to read players were mad about the loss to Chicago. They should be upset. That should have been a Hawks win. Hope the team and coach learn a big lesson from last night’s game. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Bad coaching in a tight game that should not have been tight. Jamal should have finished that game. Selfish play by Joe. I’m not impressed if you score 40 in a loss. Come talk to me after you drop 40 in a win. Bad defence down the stretch. Bad turnovers, even in the last play. And Joe had several turnovers for pounding the ball too much, driving into a wall of 4 guys…. I could go on and on.
Then again, Hawks won’t win every game, and Chicago wanted it more. I still love the Hawks no matter what. They have given us such joyful moments in those 19 wins. Still has a winning road record. Enuff said.
Now if they lose in Minny, I will be MAD!
Go Hawks! Junk the Iso game. Team ball wins every time.
Y’all have noticed Hawks seem to lose everytime Josh is in foul trouble and can’t play major minutes? Josh must stay in the game! And stop jakking up those 20 footers
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
7:39 pm
GRANDAD-your last post is a perfect example of why certain fools go off on you and associate you with others who make excellent points and provide stats, facts and poignant examples in support of their position.
You hit the nail squarely on its head when you said just because they can’t name more than 5 HC’s better than Woodson, doesn’t mean there aren’t more than 5. It simply illustrates the foolishness of basing ones judgement or assumptions based on individual ignorance.
Because of their narrow minded, one dimensional either or thought process, they think it’s always a matter of hate when someone disagrees with them. In their warped minds, anyone bold enough to question any aspect of Woodson’s coaching ability and/or contributions to this teams success, rather than ignoring the obvious and blindly accepting him as the perfect HC and total architect of the teams success, means hate must be the only motivation in their minds.
If you’ll notice, the more points you make, the more evidence you present, and the more sense it makes to them, the more they will rupture into multiple bloggers under multiple names and launch personal attacks against you, but not what you posted. Considering how long and how consistently they’ve been reacting in this manner, you can’t convince me it’s not the result a seriously emotionally unstable individual(s).
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
7:48 pm
Truth Serum,
I can name 8 coaches (off the top of my head) that are better than Woodson.
Rick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
7:55 pm
doc, Crawford definitely should have been in the game at the end of regulation (and beginning of OT). But I have no issues with the plays at the end of each segment. Joe got a freakin’ lay-up that missed in OT. You can’t get too much of a better shot attempt than a lay-up. The other shot at the end of regulation was Joe against a smaller defender in the lane. Again, how is that a bad shot attempt?
Let’s face it, Josh took a small step backwards last night. Bad fouls and horrible shot selection. He’s a consistent force for good at home but not quite there on the road. He settled far too often for shots a step inside the 3-point line. Why?
And having a 40 point scorer who can also deny a lightening quick PG like Rose the ball with the game on the line is something that shouldn’t be discounted.
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
8:06 pm
Great list O’Brien: + Sloan and D’Antoni.
Woodson’s not even the best coach in the state, M.Fox has surpassed him.
He’s puttin’ in a real half ct. offense.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
8:30 pm
Woodson appraised the team’s defense against the Bulls as “pretty solid,” but said, “We gave up too much on our switches.”
So the switching wasn’t as effective against the Bulls as it was against the Jazz? Imagine that. Also, we played the Bulls not too long ago, so they were better prepared.
Woody can always tell you what went wrong after the game. But during the game, he does nothing.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
8:36 pm
O’Brien,
I dont agree with your list but you are entitled to it. I really cant see where there is many coaches doing a better job than Woodson. Hes actually getting more results with less capital than the “few” teams with more wins this year. Overall, dollar for dollar hes getting a great bang for the bucks. In business we call that a good value for the money. As mark Bradley just pointed out and ive said all along. The professionals, see him in a different light than the bubba crew does. Outside of this blog page and in the professional circles he is well respected. Dont beat me up or fight me, I rather you fight or argue with the professionals. You can start with Mark Bradley’s article and then perhaps venture out to the pro circuits.
Sorry.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
8:40 pm
The issue isn’t if there are coaches better than Woody (clearly there are). The question is are they available and would the ASG spend to get them. Stating that Phil Jackson is better than Woody is akin to saying that Brandon Jennings is beter than Jeff Teague. We ain’t getting Jennings and we ain’t getting Phil… so who cares?
Can anyone share Sund’s brilliant record of hiring coaches? Who were some of the coaches that he hired in Seattle?
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
8:50 pm
Truth Serum, Astro
If Woody was let go at the end of the season, I agree that it would be difficult to find a better and more established coach to take over the Hawks. Avery Johnson is the only guy I can think of, and I’m not even sure the little General would be a good fit for the Hawks.
As of right now, Woody is definitely deserving of an extension. However, I think Sund will not give him one until after the playoffs. And I dont blame him. I would like to see how the Hawks perform in the playoffs.
Woody’s extension can be anywhere from 2 years to 4 years, and who knows what the price will be. Our performance in the playoffs should determine length and price.
I look forward to see how we perform in our upcoming games, because our schedule will be difficult. In Denver (second game of a back to back), home and away with Cleveland, not to mention our January schedule.
I hope the Hawks can go another 6 game win streak though.
Sleepy
December 20th, 2009
9:02 pm
Northcyde
How was Rose torching Crawford he had 4 points in the 4th quarter leading up to Crawford being subbed out and we still had the lead .
You know what stands out to me
Crawford checks in the first quarter and its an 11-10 game
He plays the the rest of the half and we build a double digit lead and we are in control of the game going into the half with a 6 point lead 46-40
He comes into the 3rd and its a 53-51 yep thats right the Buls opened up the half with a 11-6 run against the best defensive lineup
We take back control of the game pushing the lead to as many as 8 and everytime the Bulls made a run in the second half to get it down to 3-4 points we push back and push it back out to 7-8.
We shouldve never subbed out Crawford as the Bulls feared and respected his game in matchups with their guards.and he was making a positive impact on the game . We simply were flat out playing better on both ends when he was in the game during this one particular .
The biggest problem I saw in our rotations in the second half was that Horf was tired as he played the entire second half so any screen freed the guard as we were switching everything especially early in the 4th.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
9:06 pm
(( I can name 8 coaches (off the top of my head) that are better than Woodson.
Rick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers. ))
- Phil Jackson: 10 titles . . no brainer
- Greg Popovich: 4 titles . . no brainer
- Larry Brown: 1 title, and has and extensive resume for building up teams . . . no brainer
- Rick Adleman: coach of those great Sacramento teams and has a Houston team without Yao and McGrady ( until recently ), playing good basketball . . . no brainer
- Doc Rivers: former COY in Orlando w/McGrady . . was about to get fired before the acquisition of Garnett and Allen in Boston . . won championship once he got them . . no brainer
- George Karl: coach of those great Sacramento teams of the 90s . . has Denver playing at a high level most nights, although they have mental lapses ( especially on the road . . sound familiar ) . . . but he’s better than Woody
- Rick Carlisle: good coach, but teams routinely underachieved . . #1 seed Detroit got swept in the EC Finals by New Jersey in 2003 . .. #1 seed Indiana lost 4 – 2 in the EC Finals by his former Detroit team in 2004
- Nate McMillan: decent coach, but like Woody, has a career record of under .500 Portland fans criticize Nate about as much as Hawk fans criticize Woody. Actually, the Hawks and Blazers are almost like twin brothers, from the head coach to their young PG that the coach is reluctant to play ( unless it’s a blowout, or injuries happen ). . . . is he better than Woody? eh . . i don’t know about all of that.
But let’s look at this the other way. Let’s look at the “what have you done fore me lately” records of these 8 coaches. Their records since the season opener in 2008:
Phil Jackson: 86 – 21
Doc Rivers: 82 – 25
George Karl: 73 – 36
Nate McMillan: 70 – 40
Greg Popovich: 68 – 38
Rick Adleman: 69 – 40
Rick Carlisle 69 – 40
Mike Woodson: 66 – 42
Larry Brown: 45- 66
Surprised? You shouldn’t be.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:10 pm
OB, Avery would be amongst the last names on my wish list. He is the owner of one of the worse coaching strategies in NBA playoff history, when he altered his starting line-up (after fininshing as the #1 seed) against the 8th seeded Warriors team. And we all know what happened in that match-up. Not to mention that he handcuffed Jason Kidd by having him check with Avery on almost every possession. Why would a coach insist on calling plays when your PG is Jason Kidd?
I get the sense that Avery would try to change guys into some perfect image.Woody typically insists on guys being themselves (think back to how he handled Bibby, Flip and Crawford). Josh Smith is too old now to be treated like a player on a rookie contract… but I would be fearful that’s exactly how Avery would go after him.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
9:15 pm
Adding Grandad’s coaches to the list
Jerry Sloan: 64 – 45
Mike D’Antoni: 41 – 67
People will counter all of this, by citing Woody’s all time record. But this is a “what have you done for me lately” type league. People don’t care about what you did 3 – 5 years ago. They care about what you’re doing right now.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
9:15 pm
AJ,
I am skeptical about Avery too. I heard he likes to call all the plays on the sidelines, and his PG’s have very little freedom. Unlike Woody, who lets Bibby do what he wants to most of the times. And we have a young PG who I think Avery would be extra hard on.
For the record, I am fine with keeping Woody. I would love to see him hire an offensive coordinator though.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:17 pm
Given the number of coaching changes throughout the league (every 3-5 years), it is safe to say that likely two dozen NBA fan bases are in constant uproar regarding their team’s coach. WE ARE NOT ALONE.
(And if Doc doesn’t win in June, he may be available in July… along with Mike Brown).
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:35 pm
OB, I’d like Woody to teach maybe 3 more half-court plays to the team. Honestly, when you’re amongst the top teams in points scored, turnovers, points in the paint and fast break points… it’s hard to say that the offense is in need of anything more than fine-tuning. And last night, I watched the team’s top scorer get one-on-one coverage against a smaller defender at the end of regulation and then the same scorer get a lay-up attempt at the end of OT. Some want a creative play called, I want one that gets the hottest player the ball in a comfortable spot. When all the gym knew who would get the ball, Chicago couldn’t stop the play (unlike what we did against Rose at the end of regulation). The Bulls didn’t defend either shot well, Joe just missed them. That’s NOT on the coach.
Said differently, if Coach X designed a play at the end of a game that got the ball in the hand’s of his top scorer (who incidentally was having his best scoring game of the season), in the paint, one-on-one against a smaller defender, would you be critical of that coach’s play calL? How about if the end of OT play resulted in that same scorer getting a lay-up attempt?
bigdave
December 20th, 2009
9:46 pm
blame joe here, blame joe there… joe this, joe that…
wow.
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
9:50 pm
I wasn’t saying those are guys who fit our personel. Neither am I saying Woodson fits our personel. I’m not even saying he should be
let go. Based on the premis by TS of naming better coaches, that is entirely diferent than solving the conundrum of who best suits the Hawks as a coach, mentor, and leader. In trying to best solve that
puzzle with [pro] coaches then I would begin with Tom Thibodeau
(asst. coach/def. coordinator Celtics). I would also confer wi.Pops
@ SA. for advice. I’m only referring to methods I might use if I were R.Sund.
bigdave
December 20th, 2009
9:52 pm
Cavs on the verge of losing to a Dirk-less Mavs team…
Ziggy with a 34pt 24 reb effort in a Griz win over Denver…
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
10:11 pm
Astro Joe:
I’m not arguing with you about 3 additional plays.
It’s just that on off. [half ct.] we have no system, philosophy,
or style of play that we can hang our hat on. No bread and buuter play
other than iso-Joe. Defensively Woodson can effectively say that we are a switching man to man team. Offensively ? If we had 3 more plays they would be randem. I wish the man had a philosophy [off.].
P.Jack.-triangle, E.Jord.-princeton, J.Sloan-pick & roll.
Dribble drive, motion, flex, ol’ Aub. shuffle, something!
We have actually run the flex infrequently and with success.
Are we saving it for a rainy day?
Merry Christmas to you and yours AJ.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:12 pm
northcyde, Astro Joe I understand your points of view, and how you formed your opinions. I don’t think you hear my point or Mark Bradley’s point. Have you read his latest article?
I not telling you what my opinion is. I’m telling you what is the opinion of many in the pro circle is. Woodsons stock is high as is the opinion of his professional ability in pro circles. You guys don’t seem to address that effectively. There is a reason that He was # 8 last year in the coaches poll and there is a reason he is currently # 2.
The article posted on the Boston Celtics web site 2 weeks also acknowledge the kind of respect Woodson has achieved out side of this particular blog site.
I can accept that there is a few people who dont appreciate the outstanding job hes done, although the AJC just ran a opinion poll that asked if fans thought Woodson would lead the Hawks to a title, over 65% replied resoundingly yes. The other 35% were divided. between maybe and no.
None of us are professionals. We don’t get paid for our analysis or views. The phone doesn’t ring in the middle of the night with questions, but with the people that matter and are paid for there wisdom, Woodson is highly respected for his work. I don’t see how you can argue with that fact.
All we can offer is our opinions, Astro, Northcyde.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:24 pm
North Cyde, Astro Joe, one other thing,
ARick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers. ))
- Phil Jackson: 10 titles- Who cant say give the ball to Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. I don’t see how any coach could lose with them that doesnt say that much!
- Greg Popovich: 4 titles how is he doing “today”? I wont argue that he wasnt once a good coach in his season but whats he doing Now?
- Larry Brown: 1 title, and has and extensive resume for building up teams- yes once upon a time he was a great coach, he has past his mantle to his protegee Woodson.
- Rick Adleman – coach of those great Sacramento teams and has a Houston team without Yao and McGrady ( until recently ), playing good basketball- he doing a decent job but I dont see where he is out performing Woody.
- Doc Rivers: former COY in Orlando he is another decent coach, and yes, he was about to get fired before the acquisition of Garnett and Allen in Boston . . So he needed super talent to bail his azz out. He could not do it with 1 second tier all star and a bunch of kids.
Your list is your opinion all of those guys you named are has beens whose best days are behind them or living off the glory of their superstars.
EXCUSE ME?
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:28 pm
Astro Joe Yes, that was a nice play Woodson called to free Joe. It should have closed out the game for us and 95% of the time Joe hits that. I will live with that any day of the week. Nice play calling.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:30 pm
passed his mantle
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
10:38 pm
I have no faith that Woody called that play. I just think he told JJ to make something happen. And the Bulls get part of the credit for helping to create that shot, because they did a poor job defending it.
That being said, I hope Woody leads the Hawks to the NBA championship this year.
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
10:40 pm
O’Brien Offensive coordinators are for football, we are talking basketball.
Truth-Serum good points at 10:12 pm and even better ones at 10:24 pm.
Grandad The Hawks are top 10 in offense and in defense. Im not complaining. I cant argue with the job Woodson is doing.
North cyde thats a great list but I think you are making Truth – Serum’s point. This team doesnt have a Kobe or a KG nor a Yao ming. In fact, Many of the teams you just named has superior talent than the Hawks, yet woodson makes the list……
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:42 pm
O’Brien, if you give the coach the blame when they fail, give him the credit when they succeed. I think your opinion is unfair. The man has a clip board and was drawing on it during the time out. This is a very well coached team.
I disagree. Sorry.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:43 pm
The bulls are the # 2 defensive team in the NBA
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
11:07 pm
Granddad, I think we do have a style. Defend and run. OK, allow me to use a football analogy. Most great defensive teams feature a run-oriented defense. While passing offenses are certainly more entertaining, they are often more likely to commit a turnover and force the defense to play on a short field.
Woody features a fairly conservative offense that results in very, very few turnovers. Turnovers typically lead to easy baskets for the opposition, so our security of the basketball aids our defense. And of course, our defense ((and improved rebounding) produces more fast break opps and reduces the need to run half-court sets. They are very synergistic… one makes the other better.
Now, it doesn’t have a name like “the Triangle” nor does it sound smart like “Princeton”. But it seems to work for this collection of players.
Let’s face it… give Woody 3 more half-court plays and a PR firm and maybe, just maybe, fans may begin to look at him differently. Mazybe Sund should fire him, and then bring him back with a wig on. He could come up with a cute name for his coaching philosophy (e.g. “Indiana”) and fans will flock to Philips to witness a coaching genius at work. OK, so I went too far.
Night all.
RLP
December 21st, 2009
12:07 am
Tomorrow night the Cavs play Phoenix on the road. Phoenix is 10-0 at home. Since the Cavs had a tough loss against the Mavs tonight maybe the Hawks can open a little space between them for the third seed in the East. Of course on Tuesday they need to beat the Timberwolves who are 5-23 and 3-11 at home. This should be an easy win for the Hawks if they as good as many of us here think.
The home and away at the end of the month is getting bigger and bigger.
Ken Strickland
December 21st, 2009
12:07 am
The weak excuses one hears when people can’t bring themselves to accept the truth about their beloved HC, like “I THINK WE DO HAVE A STYLE. DEFEND AND RUN”. The fact that you say I THINK, demonstrates you know you’re reaching. First, DEFENDING is done on DEF not OFF, and no team RUNS when it’s playing halfcourt basketball. The ISO Joe we played most of the 4th quarter wasn’t running, it wasn’t scripted and it didn’t effectively involve other players.
ASTRO JOE made the following statement: “LET’S FACE IT…GIVE WOODY 3 MORE HALF-COURT PLAYS AND A PR FIRM AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, FANS MAY BEGIN TO LOOK AT HIM DIFFERENTLY”. That statement actually shows you recognize Woodson doesn’t have much of a halfcourt OFF. Even though you refuse to openly admit it, you end up doing so inadvertently. Then you make a feable attempt to prove otherwise by offering your weak RUN AND DEFEND excuse.
The Hawks are doing an excellent job of overcoming certain issues that’s yet to make the team better, but Woodson is doing a lot better in certain areas, and the team has really responded. We need to totally abandon WOODY BALL, with it’s emphasis on ISO, one on one play, and having everyone clearout to the perimeter. Woodson needs to install a more creative halfcourt set that promotes ball movement and player involvement. Considering he has yet to do so, although he in his 6th yr as HC, we do need to bring in someone with a clue to get it done.
It’s been said before several times, and I’ll repeat it here. Woodson isn’t as good as some of you would have everyone believe, and he’s not as bad as some would have you believe, but he certainly could be better.
Rufus1
December 21st, 2009
12:25 am
The Past 5 years
Some of you guys act like we have not watched this guy for the past 5 years. We have watched a stagnant offense, inconsistent effort, and poor player development. Now you want us to just forget the past 5 years, because we have a good start to the season….I will not.
I give more credit to free agent acquisition, than to the coach. WE HAVE A LOT MORE TALENT, THAN SOME WANT TO ACCEPT. We have people who want to trade a guy who’s career ave is 13pts & 6rbs…THAT IS HOW MUCH TALENT IS ON THIS TEAM!!!
We have seldom played well on the road and never in big games on the road. I will give give Woodson credit when we consistently win big games on the road.
I remember the road 30pt loses at Cleveland, Boston, LA and Orlando. I remember the road loses in the playoffs at Miami, Boston and Cleveland. If Woodson wants my vote, he will have to change that history.
I WILL NOT FORGET THE PAST 5 YEARS, BEACAUSE OF A FEW GOOD WEEKS!!!!!!
I WILL NOT FORGET THE PAST 5 YEARS!!!!
kwooden1
December 21st, 2009
1:09 am
Truth-Serum Those NBA stats you showed, should be removed from NBA.com. Any set of stats that show Chicago (10-15) as the 2nd rated defensive team and the Celtics (21-5) as 29th is an embarrassment!!
kwooden1
December 21st, 2009
1:12 am
All have to say about Sat. nights loss is the Celtics lost to the 76ers (6-19) in Boston the same night the HAWKS destroyed Utah! Tough losses happen!!
I hope the HAWKS will learn from their lack of assists and get their offensive going on the road. I think they need more body movement opposed to just ball movement.
GO HAWKS!
northcyde
December 21st, 2009
1:41 am
Truth . . . I was actually making your point for you, as Hawk Fan #1 said. I posted the accomplishments of those coaches, as well as their record over the past 100+ games, to indirectly validate your point.
Let people on this board tell it, all of those coaches are far superior to Woody. But when you look at that list of coaches, only Phil, Doc and Karl have more than a 4 game win record over Woody in the past 100+ games. And outside of Adleman, Brown, and McMillan, the rest of those coaches have either a major superstar on their squad, or multiple all-stars.
Here’s a contrast for everybody. Woody has now coached the Hawks for 436 games. Since 436 / 4 = 109, let’s look at Woody in 109 game segments:
- first 109 games: 20 – 89 ( .183 winning percentage )
- next 109 games: 41 – 69 ( .376 winning percentage )
- next 109 games: 45 – 64 ( .413 winning percentage )
- last 109 games: 66 – 43 ( .606 winning percentage )
Like most coaches, Woody wasn’t a good enough coach to coach up poor to mediocre talent to be .500 or better ( although injuries devastated us in the 2006 – 07 season . . and kept us from being closer to a .500 team in 2007 – 08 ).
But once he started to get talent at key positions, like Horford at center and Bibby at PG, he was able to coach up the guys to play the way he wants them to play, and he’s been one of the more successful coaches in the league ever since.
- Phil Jackson in first 2 years with Lakers: 87 – 77 . . ( .530 winning percentage )
(((( Kobe then pitches fit, wanting help or he’ll want to be traded ))))
- Lakers struggle, then Bynum FINALLY acts like he’s starting to develop, and the Lakers start to look good with a 31 – 17 record ( .646 winning percentage . . lower than the current winning percentage of the Hawks, by the way )
- So the Lakers before Gasol were: 118 – 94 . . ( .557 winning percentage ) . . lower than the winning percentage of Woody’s last 109 games, by the way.
- Lakers after Gasol trade: 114 – 29 . . ( .797 winning percentage )
So don’t EVER let people tell you that the talent is the only thing making Woody better. The talent makes even the “greatest coach in NBA history” better. People were trying to sell before the season that the Hawks have “peaked” under Woody. Now they’re trying to question whether he can coach up these guys to championship level.
To answer that question, I’ll say exactly what they always say about giving Woody an extension . . .
“let’s see at the end of the year, if he can coach these guys up, not that he has more talent to work with”.
vava74
December 21st, 2009
6:45 am
Games are sometimes lost. It’s that simple.
The team played worse defense than what is necessary to win games: most notably, the re-switching was not there and Bibby (and others) was creamed with bad matches. Maybe the back to back played a factor.
Also, the sudden hot Mo went cold these past couple of games and JT0 laid an egg with his playing time making our bench less dependable.
Marvin was awful on offense: he keeps hanging in the air too much before releasing the ball. He is thinking too much about his shots (I think he is under mental pressure).
J-Smoove has been struggling offensively since he is not getting any calls down under and is starting to be impatient and is not posting up as he did in the beginning of the season.
Look at what Simmons (ESPN) has to say about working the refs (JUST ADD J-SMOOVE to the list of players mentioned):
“Certain players (Rick Barry, Iverson, Rasheed, Antoine Walker) made it much harder on themselves by not playing The Ref Game, which goes like this: Don’t show them up; don’t complain and moan every time you don’t get bailed out; don’t swear at them or menace them in any way; don’t run 25 feet in disbelief after a bad call; and most importantly, call them by their names and not “man,” “ref” or “you.”"
Finally, JJ played a very good game (we certainly did not lose on account of him), however, his legs were a bit down and he missed those crucial shots who were acceptable tries and cannot be considered as forced. They just did not go in.
Now, let’s hope that they do not lay an egg in Minnesota!!!
JeJe
December 21st, 2009
8:24 am
LOL Joe has to take 32 shots to get 40 points
LOL Marvin is young and has potential. Stop making excuses people. He’s only 23!!!!
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
8:53 am
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!
Good grief… I could pretty much guess everyone’s post today before I even logged on.
It’s Woody’s fault, its Marvin’s, it’s Joe’s(which is just hilarious).
Dang people, we just went 6-1, btw 7-5 on the road is a very solid record.
We played lackluster, Josh got in foul trouble and he went into a shell and the Bulls were playing at home and desperate. That pretty much sums it up for me.
Fundamentals
December 21st, 2009
9:52 am
I agree with Daniel. From top to bottom we played yet another lethargic game where we stooped to their level. We expected to just be able to hit a switch, but figured out that doesn’t happen. Blame goes top to bottom. No effort on D, no motion on offense = Hawks loss. I’m just pissed we got to overtime and didn’t wake up when we had a 2nd chance at a brand new game. They didn’t care. They’re happy to have the record they do. I pray one day they get the real killer instinct to put every team away every night regardless.
We’re gonna get beat sometime…I just hate it when we lose to ourselves and not the other team.
BLAME EVERYONE! Even the sorry fans here on tirade! Bulls on Parade!
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
10:02 am
Fundamentals- dude, you are on fire. C’mon man it’s Christmas at least wait until Jan. to let loose. (although, I do agree with what you said.)
rusty
December 21st, 2009
10:10 am
when is one vs five ever better
Fundamentals
December 21st, 2009
10:12 am
I’ll be fine after we take care of business tomorrow. I’d accept a hard fought loss in Denver or Cleveland. I just can’t take losing in lackluster effort to a team we should’ve crushed. Are we contenders or pretenders? Contenders don’t allow such lapses and when they do they’re pissed…not sullen and full of excuses in post game interviews. Somebody should’ve said it was unacceptable and the Timberwolves will pay for it Tuesday. That’s just me though.
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
10:20 am
I hear you. Orlando got slapped by Miami, Boston took one by Phila. Contenders do lose won now and again. The difference between contenders and pretenders is how do you bounce back? Does one loss turn into three? Or do you “take it out” on the next team. I think the Wolves are going to get a beat down.
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
10:20 am
lose one… you know what I meant
Fundamentals
December 21st, 2009
10:27 am
Beat down for sure! I will admit ahead of time that the T’Wolves have some nice pieces. There was a time when a Hawks team would come out on fire and knock down a sure fire contender. Boy those were some fun nights. You’d see the potential, you’d see the fire. I just pray we come out strong and eliminate the potential for the T’Wolves to show us their future. One day they’ll be good if they follow our model. Keep the talent together, let them grow and reap the benefits.
What’s up with Miami? What a roller coaster?
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
10:56 am
Miami has a mercurial star in Wade who is either run down, more interested in commercials or thinking about free agency. The rest of the team is pretty much garbage and they have a young head coach who can’t put all the pieces together because it is not really his team.
RLP
December 21st, 2009
10:58 am
There was an interesting article in the Sunday New York Times on the 10:00 morning shoot around. The article can be found at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/sports/basketball/20sleep.html?_r=1&ref=basketball.
There was also a brief profile of the Hawks in that paper but I cannot find a link to the piece. In it they said the Hawks were on the cusp of becoming an elite team and specifically mentioned JJ, Josh and Al as being part of the reason.
As for all of the comments on the current status of the team I think some people have had their expectations raised too high by the great start this team has had. But we should have a few cautionary notes. This team is still young. Winning on the road is not easy for anybody in the NBA. Check out the son loss records of all teams. There are only 11 teams in all of the NBA with winning road records. There are only five teams in the East with winning road records. Sure the Hawks lost to a team they should have defeated. But it was on the road. But the team does have a winning record on the road. Last years team only won 16 games on the road all year.
And for those who take offense to the remarks made after the loss please remember how the team responded after the loss to the Knicks. I think Minnesota will pay a price for the teams loss in Chicago. And it was not as though the team got blown away. It took overtime for Chicago to prevail.
Astro Joe
December 21st, 2009
11:01 am
The Hawks have responded well to losses throughout the season… maybe not in words but in their play in the next game. And with Denver looming ahead, I’m sure that they don’t want to see a Chicago loss become the start of a 3-game losing streak.
northcyde
December 21st, 2009
11:11 am
And yes, I know that wasn’t Phil Jackson’s record in his first 2 years with the Lakers. I left out the word “back”. That should’ve said it was his record “in his first 2 years BACK with the Lakers.” Just wanted to state that before the critics pounce all over that, and try to make me look crazy ( even though they know exactly the time frame that I’m talking about )
At 7 – 5, the Hawks are on pace to go 24 – 17. I’ll definitely take that.
Shoot, there’s at least a 25% chance that we’ll lose @ Minny ( although I doubt it ). But if we lose there, but turn around and win @ Denver, which game is more telling about the Hawks? )
A: Neither
Fundamentals
December 21st, 2009
11:13 am
I’m guessing 12-9 through the end of January.
O'Brien
December 21st, 2009
12:14 pm
After the Hawks lost to Knicks, I thought they would be doomed against Dallas the next night. Woody got them ready, And then they went out and beat Dallas in Dallas. I look for them to put a beatdown on Minny. We are well rested, and should be able to run.
Woody does get some of the credit for our record, and he has improved this year. However, the playoffs will be the judge for just how far Woody and the Hawks have come.
As far as road wins, if the Hawks can go 21-20 on the road, that will be good enough for me. And we should win 30+ games at home.
Rick
December 21st, 2009
12:42 pm
Woodson is going brain dead again. After watching his three guard look generate a minnie slump culminating in a loss to lowly New York, he was back at it against Chicago. Who did he think was going to guard Rose and keep him from driving and scoring or driving and dishing, Biiby, Jamal, Joe? Joe does an OK job of defending off the ball, but cannot handle anyone with a quick first step with the ball and never can figure out how to avoid screens as his man is always open for spot uo threes. Is that your answer to holding a lead. Put in your worst defensive alignment? Give me a break on that IsoJoe junk. When is Woodson going to learn that IsoJoe means you Ohso lose? This team can win without Joe, but it cannot win without Josh. Woodson had numerous options of three bigs to put on the floor, but cannot seem to figure it out. After going 0 for 18 last year on late shots off desinged plays run for Joe at the end of the game you would think Woodson would learn that Joe plays on nautral ability and instincts and can’t run a designed play. Went he gave the last shot to Bibby earlier this year I thought he had come to his senses, but looks like he is still clueless as to whom should take the last shot. It ain’t Joe Mike. Woodson wake up this is your second coaches loss.
vava74
December 21st, 2009
12:53 pm
Rick,
Your criticism is too strong in my opinion, however, I do believe that you hit some interesting points.
JJ is an excellent defender (where we disagree), however, these particular match ups did not favor us. Also, we were coasting on defense.
Yes, I agree that we should have gone big and that Woody should have had some command on the ISO-Joe situation and get other things going.
However, you cannot forget that we won in Dallas with Joe carrying us. This time, it did not work and when he was slumping we should have resorted to other solutions.
Bibby, as you say should have taken a couple of shots in the crunch time (in spite of his bad line until that point) and Crawford could have been given the responsibility as well.
Rufus1
December 21st, 2009
12:57 pm
Why not LEBRON to Atlanta?
If Joe signs and we trade Crawford and or Marvin..couldn’t the Hawks go after Lebron.
If Joe doesn’t sign we would have about 18mil with a better supporting cast than New York, New jersey and Miami(maybe). We are a high profile city that caters to athletes.
Astro Joe
December 21st, 2009
1:19 pm
Wow, and here I thought that the Bulls only scored 40 points in the first half.
Our defense was lacking in the second half because we were missing both of our PFs and Horford was exhausted. Josh Smith simply needs to play better on the road if he is going to continue to improve his game.
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
2:40 pm
Astro Joe:(from last evening)
C’mon seriously, fancy name! K.S. has already made my main point in that I was talking half ct. off., not run & gun. I even said “Woodson has a philosophy on def. Honestly, I think they run on their own.
Big Al & Josh just take off with the ball. Jamal & Teager push it up
by nature.
I was referring to ‘Iso-Joe’ or ‘Woody Ball’ [there's your fancy name for your PR firm].
*Triangle*Princton*P&R*Motion*Passing-Game*Flex*UCLA*Dribble-Motion, all have a well known [amongst b-ball folks] name with a well defined
objective plus a clear cut method to reach reach said objective.
And no, Woodson has neither.
He will be exposed come play-off time.
RLP
December 21st, 2009
5:26 pm
I find it offensive for those bloggers who refer to a portion of the Hawks offense as “Woody Ball” while hailing the offense when it is playing the kind of ball that they like. Do you mean to imply that in the 19 games the team has won they simply ignore the coach’s influence but when they lose it can only be attributed to the coach and that therefore he is a bad coach because the team is then playing the type of ball that he has coached? That seems totally illogical to me. It also seems illogical to me to blame the bad offensive sets the team gets into on the team’s acknowledge offensive leader and refer to the “IsoJoe”. I agree that there are times when the team does not pass the ball well and gets stagnant in offensive sets. I also agree that when teams double team Joe he has difficulty making good passes out of the double team. But this year that has not been the type of offense the team is running. I suspect that the team got into the habit of using the Isojoe play back in the days before Josh came into his own and Al got here and the team lacked any other effective offensive weapons. But part of this teams evolution has been changing the way they play ball. They have demonstrated more offensive firepower this year than at any time during this past five and a quarter year. As the team continues to mature I suspect the offensive capabilities of the team will continue to mature. But just as with the improvements the team has made in the won lost record and other aspects of their development change does not come overnight. It is a gradual thing. I look for continued development of the offense as the team grows.
As for the offensive style I beg to disagree with those who do not believe a team can win offensively based on the kind of defense they play. This Hawks team has athletic big men who are capable of running the floor and taking advantage of there athleticism on fast breaks. Most running teams have a higher turnover ratio because in a running game you do take more risks in order to make a higher percentage of your shots when you are engaged in that type of offense. But the impressive thing about the Hawks is that their turnover rate leads the league in the fewest number of turnovers committed. So when the numbers are not there this team does know how to pull the ball out an get into a half court set. That half court set is admittedly not where they are at their best. But they do have some new pieces that are showing potential for changing this area of their game for the better.
I also believe the ownership of this team is gradually, slowly, but methodically, turning this team into a team with the potential to win a title in the only way a team without the financial resources of teams such as the Lakers and the Celtics or teams without the luck of having a superstar fall into their laps like the Cavaliers or Magic can build a championship team. They have recognized that it takes patience and a willingness to ignore those who cannot be satisfied unless a team has a win now attitude. I love how this team has been constructed and feel that this year is just one more chapter in something that began when they tore up the roster upon assuming ownership of the team. For all of the abuse this ownership has taken they should now reap the benefits for the product they now have on the floor.
Miss Horford
December 21st, 2009
11:55 pm
RLP is very long winded, but you can’t argue a word that he said. Unless you’re just a hater! Nice post.
BEATDOWN TOMORROW!