Six in a row
Greetings, all-
Hope you got to enjoy Friday night’s game. Wow. That stretch in the third quarter, I think it was one of those times where you didn’t really have to be a Hawks fan to appreciate what was going on. You just had to be a fan of the game, period. It was just five guys losing themselves in the flow of the game, totally committed and executing at a near flawless rate.
This is probably a stretch, and please don’t take this to mean I’m saying the Hawks are as good as the Michael Jordan Bulls, but I grew up watching that team and, particularly when they had Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen teamed up with Jordan – I remember assistant coach Johnny Bach called them Doberman pinschers – that team could turn it on defensively like nothing else.
The Hawks looked something like that against Utah in the third quarter. Josh Smith was unreal rebounding, blocking and altering shots and even that behind-the-back bounce pass to Al Horford on the break. Passes got deflected, Jazz cutters were covered, Joe Johnson swallowed up Deron Williams. That Ray Lewis comparison that Jamal Crawford made with Smith looks a little less lopsided today than Friday.
The crazy thing is how it followed a pretty rancid first half. If you remember, Horford tried to start a break by throwing the ball backwards over his head. Mike Bibby’s layup. A couple wild outlet passes by Smith. Typically level-headed Mo Evans turning to yell at a ref while the ball was still in play.
Watching all this, it certainly seemed like the Hawks were off their game and were headed to a loss, just because no team can keep up the kind of mojo they’ve been having (to wit: Boston against Philly. Did you know the Celtics are 3-4 on Fridays, including the Hawks’ win over them last month? They’re 17-1 the other six days of the week. Strange.)
But, heavens, what a turnaround. You’d have to think the Hawks will win again tonight. I’d hardly call it a sure thing, though, and I wouldn’t be too surprised if they lost. It seems to happen enough in the NBA. But it makes me wonder how long they can keep playing like this and what it’ll take to stop them. Denver looms large, obviously – second game of a back to back at altitude, for whatever that’s worth. And then Cleveland, certainly.
But, anyway, I am on the flight to Chicago and am going to have to shut down the laptop pretty soon. So, some links, and I think that’ll do it.
Enjoy the game tonight.
The Salt Lake Tribune’s take.
“I think more than anything their length just hurt us,” Deron Williams said. “They switched everything. We didn’t really have an answer for that. We didn’t have a game plan against that. They played great basketball tonight.”
The Jazz lost the third quarter 37-17, giving up a 16-0 run in which they were held scoreless for 5:13 and suffered a complete meltdown.
From Jazz beat writer Ross Siler’s blog:
The funniest thing in there is that Deron Williams left about 40 tickets for the University of Illinois basketball team (where Williams played) because they’re in Atlanta playing Georgia at Gwinnett Arena, I think. Because of traffic delays, the team got there in the third quarter. Bummer.
Carlos Boozer quotes:
“They’re one of the fastest teams in the league at every position and they exploited that tonight. They played fast with layups and dunks and transition. They just kicked our butts in general.”
“It’s almost like we played right into their hands. Whatever their scheme was worked.”
The Chicago Tribune’s Bulls page.
The nuttiest stat I’ve seen today, from espn.com’s Daily Dime courtesy of Elias Sports Bureau.
The irrepressible Elias Sports Bureau might have outdone itself with this one involving Shaquille O’Neal and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Cleveland’s two centers produced near-identical lines in the box score in Tuesday’s win over New Jersey: Both scored 16 points on 7-for-9 shooting with five rebounds and three blocked shots. How hard is it to produce a line with those specifics? Elias says that players have recorded more than 750,000 box-score lines since the NBA began keeping track of blocks in 1973 … and only two other players in all that time went for 16 points on 7-for-9 shooting with five boards and three swats: Cavs swingman Jamario Moon in April 2008 (with Toronto), and Portland’s Greg Oden earlier this season.
A page I’ve now bookmarked, because Elias Sports Bureau does a great job of digging up stuff like this – plus stuff that has more meaning, is Elias Says.
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319 comments Add your comment
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
4:06 pm
Syb:
You never disappoint.
Happy Holidays (Seriously!)
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
4:14 pm
Woodson’s contract expires June 30, 2010. General manager Rick Sund has said he’ll wait until the season ends to begin negotiations. This wouldn’t have been a big deal three years ago when the Hawks were awful and Woodson was sitting on a career record of 69-177. But it has the potential to become a big deal — or non-deal — now.
Because folks around the NBA don’t see Woodson as the guy who was 100-plus games under .500. They see him as the coach who rode out the 13-69 of 2004-2005 and now has the Hawks on pace to go 61-21. They’ll see him as a coach who held things together long enough for talent to gather around him and who knew what to do when finally he got it. (Which …
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
4:36 pm
GRANDAD, SAUTEE-you want to know how you can be positive you’ve made solid, well thoughout points, especially if it has anything to do with Woodson, either directly or indirectly? It’s when you get attacked in a series of ignorant posts featuring a bunch of unknown names.
He/she/it/they always, and I mean always, make a point of attacking the messenger, but never will he/she/it/they make an effort to address the message. That’s because the truth hurts, and instead of dealing with the cause of their pain(the truth/facts/reality) they focus their attack on the pain itself(the presenters of the truth/facts/reality.
This is an individual(s) that lacks the intellectual capacity to engage in intelligent debate and present an intelligent defense of their position. They also have a definite disregard for anyone who possesses that ability. As a result, they will always try to bring that individual down to their level by resorting to personal attacks, rather than trying to find logical ways to persent their position so that it wil at least appear to be well thoughout.
It’s not about hate for him/them, it’s about envy, selfesteem, and the fool actually deranged.
doc
December 20th, 2009
4:43 pm
truth, nice perspective above and about where i too think we will be. so, with that expectation i dont go into combustion mode with a single loss like last night.. i do think if all the galaxy comes together just right we could fall into the 3 spot. 53 to 55 wins ought to get woody a contract if his team continues to play had and doesnt cave in the playoffs. not to worried about it on either side. i think woody would stay if offered a good deal of 4 years as well as he knows what he has here. maybe by the end of the season he will have earned a top ten designation as a coach with a good contract.
folks it is becoming apparent that marvin might have lost something with his injury last year as he hasnt found anything close to his confidence he had last year. his throwing up an air ball after air ball is sick and he didnt work on his inside moves at all in the off season to improve his game from the looks of it. me id prefer the athleticism of chills at that price than marvin. poor decision there folks and he could have been had for less than we pay marvin is my guess just not at the low ball or we will get back to you mode they placed him in. others think in terms of wanting something out there that would be better, sadly he is still our property in the nba but he gets paid by someone else to work elsewhere. do you thing the greeks would allow a trade of marvin for chills straight up?
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
5:10 pm
Doc,
I also raised the same point, that at 5 years, almost $40 mil, Chills would have been a better option. Chills is more versatile; He doesnt need plays run for him, can handle the ball, and there were numerous games where he would get an important tip in, and important rebound etc. Marvin is nonexistent, with very little impact on games.
But Chills played more college ball compared to Marvin, so lets hope Marvin turns it around. Because I think we are stuck with Marvin for a while.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
5:34 pm
doc Im right on board with your assessment. Like you and others im looking at the season and playoff picture as a whole and not micro-analyzing from time out to time out – LOL
Actually, I dont think I can legitimately name five coaches better than Woodson in the NBA right now…I cant name five PF’s Better than Josh either.
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
5:36 pm
Truth-Serum
I think Bob Weiss and Ken Strickland will argue the point. Both have said they are much better coaches than Woodson.- LOL
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
6:01 pm
K.S.:
I am most happy to be asociated with yourself and Sautee.
TS:
I could easily name 5 better coaches than Woodson. I could name
5 asst. coaches that I think would be better as well. While we are at it I could name 5 college coaches who are better. There are HS coaches that can manage a bench, call better plays out of a TO, be more creative, less stubborn, less obtuse, better teachers of the game, and understand special game situations better than Woodson. Just because you can’t name one doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t. However, to be fair, Woodson ‘is’ making some progress. I also could name 5, even 10, worse coaches.
Side Note:
You don’t reckon last nite was a make Joe happy [all-star] game by design , do you?
Here lately, everyone had been sharing the wealth.
Joe has an ego as we all do!
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
6:09 pm
Just because Crawford and Teague aren’t considered great DEF stoppers, how can anyone with a clue believe it’s somehow better to rely on Bibby’s DEF? Would any of you say Bibby is a better on the ball defender, or better at fighting over picks or defending against fastbreaks?
rusty
December 20th, 2009
6:14 pm
josh, if you read this blog please realize even though you are great inspite of woody you have to keep your head together. you belong under the basket not out on the perimeter. you need to let the game come to you. joej you have all the money you will ever need & the hawks will give you a lot more commit to the team which means that you dont need to
take a lot of shots,you play so much better when you play in the flow of the game. playing
iso joe will not win anything we have a lot of good players & they have to be involved. plese commit to your team
Rufus1
December 20th, 2009
7:03 pm
JJ Audition
Joe was auditioning for the Bulls..He is trying to create buzz with certain teams. Joe wants a max deal and he needs a bidding war to get it. Watch how he performs in front of certain teams.
Blast
December 20th, 2009
7:08 pm
Big Ray,
You say Hawks always play well after a good practice, I say they usually play well after a disappointing loss. Glad to read players were mad about the loss to Chicago. They should be upset. That should have been a Hawks win. Hope the team and coach learn a big lesson from last night’s game. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Bad coaching in a tight game that should not have been tight. Jamal should have finished that game. Selfish play by Joe. I’m not impressed if you score 40 in a loss. Come talk to me after you drop 40 in a win. Bad defence down the stretch. Bad turnovers, even in the last play. And Joe had several turnovers for pounding the ball too much, driving into a wall of 4 guys…. I could go on and on.
Then again, Hawks won’t win every game, and Chicago wanted it more. I still love the Hawks no matter what. They have given us such joyful moments in those 19 wins. Still has a winning road record. Enuff said.
Now if they lose in Minny, I will be MAD!
Go Hawks! Junk the Iso game. Team ball wins every time.
Y’all have noticed Hawks seem to lose everytime Josh is in foul trouble and can’t play major minutes? Josh must stay in the game! And stop jakking up those 20 footers
Ken Strickland
December 20th, 2009
7:39 pm
GRANDAD-your last post is a perfect example of why certain fools go off on you and associate you with others who make excellent points and provide stats, facts and poignant examples in support of their position.
You hit the nail squarely on its head when you said just because they can’t name more than 5 HC’s better than Woodson, doesn’t mean there aren’t more than 5. It simply illustrates the foolishness of basing ones judgement or assumptions based on individual ignorance.
Because of their narrow minded, one dimensional either or thought process, they think it’s always a matter of hate when someone disagrees with them. In their warped minds, anyone bold enough to question any aspect of Woodson’s coaching ability and/or contributions to this teams success, rather than ignoring the obvious and blindly accepting him as the perfect HC and total architect of the teams success, means hate must be the only motivation in their minds.
If you’ll notice, the more points you make, the more evidence you present, and the more sense it makes to them, the more they will rupture into multiple bloggers under multiple names and launch personal attacks against you, but not what you posted. Considering how long and how consistently they’ve been reacting in this manner, you can’t convince me it’s not the result a seriously emotionally unstable individual(s).
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
7:48 pm
Truth Serum,
I can name 8 coaches (off the top of my head) that are better than Woodson.
Rick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
7:55 pm
doc, Crawford definitely should have been in the game at the end of regulation (and beginning of OT). But I have no issues with the plays at the end of each segment. Joe got a freakin’ lay-up that missed in OT. You can’t get too much of a better shot attempt than a lay-up. The other shot at the end of regulation was Joe against a smaller defender in the lane. Again, how is that a bad shot attempt?
Let’s face it, Josh took a small step backwards last night. Bad fouls and horrible shot selection. He’s a consistent force for good at home but not quite there on the road. He settled far too often for shots a step inside the 3-point line. Why?
And having a 40 point scorer who can also deny a lightening quick PG like Rose the ball with the game on the line is something that shouldn’t be discounted.
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
8:06 pm
Great list O’Brien: + Sloan and D’Antoni.
Woodson’s not even the best coach in the state, M.Fox has surpassed him.
He’s puttin’ in a real half ct. offense.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
8:30 pm
Woodson appraised the team’s defense against the Bulls as “pretty solid,” but said, “We gave up too much on our switches.”
So the switching wasn’t as effective against the Bulls as it was against the Jazz? Imagine that. Also, we played the Bulls not too long ago, so they were better prepared.
Woody can always tell you what went wrong after the game. But during the game, he does nothing.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
8:36 pm
O’Brien,
I dont agree with your list but you are entitled to it. I really cant see where there is many coaches doing a better job than Woodson. Hes actually getting more results with less capital than the “few” teams with more wins this year. Overall, dollar for dollar hes getting a great bang for the bucks. In business we call that a good value for the money. As mark Bradley just pointed out and ive said all along. The professionals, see him in a different light than the bubba crew does. Outside of this blog page and in the professional circles he is well respected. Dont beat me up or fight me, I rather you fight or argue with the professionals. You can start with Mark Bradley’s article and then perhaps venture out to the pro circuits.
Sorry.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
8:40 pm
The issue isn’t if there are coaches better than Woody (clearly there are). The question is are they available and would the ASG spend to get them. Stating that Phil Jackson is better than Woody is akin to saying that Brandon Jennings is beter than Jeff Teague. We ain’t getting Jennings and we ain’t getting Phil… so who cares?
Can anyone share Sund’s brilliant record of hiring coaches? Who were some of the coaches that he hired in Seattle?
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
8:50 pm
Truth Serum, Astro
If Woody was let go at the end of the season, I agree that it would be difficult to find a better and more established coach to take over the Hawks. Avery Johnson is the only guy I can think of, and I’m not even sure the little General would be a good fit for the Hawks.
As of right now, Woody is definitely deserving of an extension. However, I think Sund will not give him one until after the playoffs. And I dont blame him. I would like to see how the Hawks perform in the playoffs.
Woody’s extension can be anywhere from 2 years to 4 years, and who knows what the price will be. Our performance in the playoffs should determine length and price.
I look forward to see how we perform in our upcoming games, because our schedule will be difficult. In Denver (second game of a back to back), home and away with Cleveland, not to mention our January schedule.
I hope the Hawks can go another 6 game win streak though.
Sleepy
December 20th, 2009
9:02 pm
Northcyde
How was Rose torching Crawford he had 4 points in the 4th quarter leading up to Crawford being subbed out and we still had the lead .
You know what stands out to me
Crawford checks in the first quarter and its an 11-10 game
He plays the the rest of the half and we build a double digit lead and we are in control of the game going into the half with a 6 point lead 46-40
He comes into the 3rd and its a 53-51 yep thats right the Buls opened up the half with a 11-6 run against the best defensive lineup
We take back control of the game pushing the lead to as many as 8 and everytime the Bulls made a run in the second half to get it down to 3-4 points we push back and push it back out to 7-8.
We shouldve never subbed out Crawford as the Bulls feared and respected his game in matchups with their guards.and he was making a positive impact on the game . We simply were flat out playing better on both ends when he was in the game during this one particular .
The biggest problem I saw in our rotations in the second half was that Horf was tired as he played the entire second half so any screen freed the guard as we were switching everything especially early in the 4th.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
9:06 pm
(( I can name 8 coaches (off the top of my head) that are better than Woodson.
Rick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers. ))
- Phil Jackson: 10 titles . . no brainer
- Greg Popovich: 4 titles . . no brainer
- Larry Brown: 1 title, and has and extensive resume for building up teams . . . no brainer
- Rick Adleman: coach of those great Sacramento teams and has a Houston team without Yao and McGrady ( until recently ), playing good basketball . . . no brainer
- Doc Rivers: former COY in Orlando w/McGrady . . was about to get fired before the acquisition of Garnett and Allen in Boston . . won championship once he got them . . no brainer
- George Karl: coach of those great Sacramento teams of the 90s . . has Denver playing at a high level most nights, although they have mental lapses ( especially on the road . . sound familiar ) . . . but he’s better than Woody
- Rick Carlisle: good coach, but teams routinely underachieved . . #1 seed Detroit got swept in the EC Finals by New Jersey in 2003 . .. #1 seed Indiana lost 4 – 2 in the EC Finals by his former Detroit team in 2004
- Nate McMillan: decent coach, but like Woody, has a career record of under .500 Portland fans criticize Nate about as much as Hawk fans criticize Woody. Actually, the Hawks and Blazers are almost like twin brothers, from the head coach to their young PG that the coach is reluctant to play ( unless it’s a blowout, or injuries happen ). . . . is he better than Woody? eh . . i don’t know about all of that.
But let’s look at this the other way. Let’s look at the “what have you done fore me lately” records of these 8 coaches. Their records since the season opener in 2008:
Phil Jackson: 86 – 21
Doc Rivers: 82 – 25
George Karl: 73 – 36
Nate McMillan: 70 – 40
Greg Popovich: 68 – 38
Rick Adleman: 69 – 40
Rick Carlisle 69 – 40
Mike Woodson: 66 – 42
Larry Brown: 45- 66
Surprised? You shouldn’t be.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:10 pm
OB, Avery would be amongst the last names on my wish list. He is the owner of one of the worse coaching strategies in NBA playoff history, when he altered his starting line-up (after fininshing as the #1 seed) against the 8th seeded Warriors team. And we all know what happened in that match-up. Not to mention that he handcuffed Jason Kidd by having him check with Avery on almost every possession. Why would a coach insist on calling plays when your PG is Jason Kidd?
I get the sense that Avery would try to change guys into some perfect image.Woody typically insists on guys being themselves (think back to how he handled Bibby, Flip and Crawford). Josh Smith is too old now to be treated like a player on a rookie contract… but I would be fearful that’s exactly how Avery would go after him.
northcyde
December 20th, 2009
9:15 pm
Adding Grandad’s coaches to the list
Jerry Sloan: 64 – 45
Mike D’Antoni: 41 – 67
People will counter all of this, by citing Woody’s all time record. But this is a “what have you done for me lately” type league. People don’t care about what you did 3 – 5 years ago. They care about what you’re doing right now.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
9:15 pm
AJ,
I am skeptical about Avery too. I heard he likes to call all the plays on the sidelines, and his PG’s have very little freedom. Unlike Woody, who lets Bibby do what he wants to most of the times. And we have a young PG who I think Avery would be extra hard on.
For the record, I am fine with keeping Woody. I would love to see him hire an offensive coordinator though.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:17 pm
Given the number of coaching changes throughout the league (every 3-5 years), it is safe to say that likely two dozen NBA fan bases are in constant uproar regarding their team’s coach. WE ARE NOT ALONE.
(And if Doc doesn’t win in June, he may be available in July… along with Mike Brown).
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
9:35 pm
OB, I’d like Woody to teach maybe 3 more half-court plays to the team. Honestly, when you’re amongst the top teams in points scored, turnovers, points in the paint and fast break points… it’s hard to say that the offense is in need of anything more than fine-tuning. And last night, I watched the team’s top scorer get one-on-one coverage against a smaller defender at the end of regulation and then the same scorer get a lay-up attempt at the end of OT. Some want a creative play called, I want one that gets the hottest player the ball in a comfortable spot. When all the gym knew who would get the ball, Chicago couldn’t stop the play (unlike what we did against Rose at the end of regulation). The Bulls didn’t defend either shot well, Joe just missed them. That’s NOT on the coach.
Said differently, if Coach X designed a play at the end of a game that got the ball in the hand’s of his top scorer (who incidentally was having his best scoring game of the season), in the paint, one-on-one against a smaller defender, would you be critical of that coach’s play calL? How about if the end of OT play resulted in that same scorer getting a lay-up attempt?
bigdave
December 20th, 2009
9:46 pm
blame joe here, blame joe there… joe this, joe that…
wow.
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
9:50 pm
I wasn’t saying those are guys who fit our personel. Neither am I saying Woodson fits our personel. I’m not even saying he should be
let go. Based on the premis by TS of naming better coaches, that is entirely diferent than solving the conundrum of who best suits the Hawks as a coach, mentor, and leader. In trying to best solve that
puzzle with [pro] coaches then I would begin with Tom Thibodeau
(asst. coach/def. coordinator Celtics). I would also confer wi.Pops
@ SA. for advice. I’m only referring to methods I might use if I were R.Sund.
bigdave
December 20th, 2009
9:52 pm
Cavs on the verge of losing to a Dirk-less Mavs team…
Ziggy with a 34pt 24 reb effort in a Griz win over Denver…
Grandad
December 20th, 2009
10:11 pm
Astro Joe:
I’m not arguing with you about 3 additional plays.
It’s just that on off. [half ct.] we have no system, philosophy,
or style of play that we can hang our hat on. No bread and buuter play
other than iso-Joe. Defensively Woodson can effectively say that we are a switching man to man team. Offensively ? If we had 3 more plays they would be randem. I wish the man had a philosophy [off.].
P.Jack.-triangle, E.Jord.-princeton, J.Sloan-pick & roll.
Dribble drive, motion, flex, ol’ Aub. shuffle, something!
We have actually run the flex infrequently and with success.
Are we saving it for a rainy day?
Merry Christmas to you and yours AJ.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:12 pm
northcyde, Astro Joe I understand your points of view, and how you formed your opinions. I don’t think you hear my point or Mark Bradley’s point. Have you read his latest article?
I not telling you what my opinion is. I’m telling you what is the opinion of many in the pro circle is. Woodsons stock is high as is the opinion of his professional ability in pro circles. You guys don’t seem to address that effectively. There is a reason that He was # 8 last year in the coaches poll and there is a reason he is currently # 2.
The article posted on the Boston Celtics web site 2 weeks also acknowledge the kind of respect Woodson has achieved out side of this particular blog site.
I can accept that there is a few people who dont appreciate the outstanding job hes done, although the AJC just ran a opinion poll that asked if fans thought Woodson would lead the Hawks to a title, over 65% replied resoundingly yes. The other 35% were divided. between maybe and no.
None of us are professionals. We don’t get paid for our analysis or views. The phone doesn’t ring in the middle of the night with questions, but with the people that matter and are paid for there wisdom, Woodson is highly respected for his work. I don’t see how you can argue with that fact.
All we can offer is our opinions, Astro, Northcyde.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:24 pm
North Cyde, Astro Joe, one other thing,
ARick Carlisle, Phil Jackson, Nate McMillan, Rick Adelman, Larry Brown, Greg Popovich, George Karl, and Doc Rivers. ))
- Phil Jackson: 10 titles- Who cant say give the ball to Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. I don’t see how any coach could lose with them that doesnt say that much!
- Greg Popovich: 4 titles how is he doing “today”? I wont argue that he wasnt once a good coach in his season but whats he doing Now?
- Larry Brown: 1 title, and has and extensive resume for building up teams- yes once upon a time he was a great coach, he has past his mantle to his protegee Woodson.
- Rick Adleman – coach of those great Sacramento teams and has a Houston team without Yao and McGrady ( until recently ), playing good basketball- he doing a decent job but I dont see where he is out performing Woody.
- Doc Rivers: former COY in Orlando he is another decent coach, and yes, he was about to get fired before the acquisition of Garnett and Allen in Boston . . So he needed super talent to bail his azz out. He could not do it with 1 second tier all star and a bunch of kids.
Your list is your opinion all of those guys you named are has beens whose best days are behind them or living off the glory of their superstars.
EXCUSE ME?
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:28 pm
Astro Joe Yes, that was a nice play Woodson called to free Joe. It should have closed out the game for us and 95% of the time Joe hits that. I will live with that any day of the week. Nice play calling.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:30 pm
passed his mantle
O'Brien
December 20th, 2009
10:38 pm
I have no faith that Woody called that play. I just think he told JJ to make something happen. And the Bulls get part of the credit for helping to create that shot, because they did a poor job defending it.
That being said, I hope Woody leads the Hawks to the NBA championship this year.
Hawks fan #1
December 20th, 2009
10:40 pm
O’Brien Offensive coordinators are for football, we are talking basketball.
Truth-Serum good points at 10:12 pm and even better ones at 10:24 pm.
Grandad The Hawks are top 10 in offense and in defense. Im not complaining. I cant argue with the job Woodson is doing.
North cyde thats a great list but I think you are making Truth – Serum’s point. This team doesnt have a Kobe or a KG nor a Yao ming. In fact, Many of the teams you just named has superior talent than the Hawks, yet woodson makes the list……
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:42 pm
O’Brien, if you give the coach the blame when they fail, give him the credit when they succeed. I think your opinion is unfair. The man has a clip board and was drawing on it during the time out. This is a very well coached team.
I disagree. Sorry.
Truth-Serum
December 20th, 2009
10:43 pm
The bulls are the # 2 defensive team in the NBA
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2009
11:07 pm
Granddad, I think we do have a style. Defend and run. OK, allow me to use a football analogy. Most great defensive teams feature a run-oriented defense. While passing offenses are certainly more entertaining, they are often more likely to commit a turnover and force the defense to play on a short field.
Woody features a fairly conservative offense that results in very, very few turnovers. Turnovers typically lead to easy baskets for the opposition, so our security of the basketball aids our defense. And of course, our defense ((and improved rebounding) produces more fast break opps and reduces the need to run half-court sets. They are very synergistic… one makes the other better.
Now, it doesn’t have a name like “the Triangle” nor does it sound smart like “Princeton”. But it seems to work for this collection of players.
Let’s face it… give Woody 3 more half-court plays and a PR firm and maybe, just maybe, fans may begin to look at him differently. Mazybe Sund should fire him, and then bring him back with a wig on. He could come up with a cute name for his coaching philosophy (e.g. “Indiana”) and fans will flock to Philips to witness a coaching genius at work. OK, so I went too far.
Night all.
RLP
December 21st, 2009
12:07 am
Tomorrow night the Cavs play Phoenix on the road. Phoenix is 10-0 at home. Since the Cavs had a tough loss against the Mavs tonight maybe the Hawks can open a little space between them for the third seed in the East. Of course on Tuesday they need to beat the Timberwolves who are 5-23 and 3-11 at home. This should be an easy win for the Hawks if they as good as many of us here think.
The home and away at the end of the month is getting bigger and bigger.
Ken Strickland
December 21st, 2009
12:07 am
The weak excuses one hears when people can’t bring themselves to accept the truth about their beloved HC, like “I THINK WE DO HAVE A STYLE. DEFEND AND RUN”. The fact that you say I THINK, demonstrates you know you’re reaching. First, DEFENDING is done on DEF not OFF, and no team RUNS when it’s playing halfcourt basketball. The ISO Joe we played most of the 4th quarter wasn’t running, it wasn’t scripted and it didn’t effectively involve other players.
ASTRO JOE made the following statement: “LET’S FACE IT…GIVE WOODY 3 MORE HALF-COURT PLAYS AND A PR FIRM AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, FANS MAY BEGIN TO LOOK AT HIM DIFFERENTLY”. That statement actually shows you recognize Woodson doesn’t have much of a halfcourt OFF. Even though you refuse to openly admit it, you end up doing so inadvertently. Then you make a feable attempt to prove otherwise by offering your weak RUN AND DEFEND excuse.
The Hawks are doing an excellent job of overcoming certain issues that’s yet to make the team better, but Woodson is doing a lot better in certain areas, and the team has really responded. We need to totally abandon WOODY BALL, with it’s emphasis on ISO, one on one play, and having everyone clearout to the perimeter. Woodson needs to install a more creative halfcourt set that promotes ball movement and player involvement. Considering he has yet to do so, although he in his 6th yr as HC, we do need to bring in someone with a clue to get it done.
It’s been said before several times, and I’ll repeat it here. Woodson isn’t as good as some of you would have everyone believe, and he’s not as bad as some would have you believe, but he certainly could be better.
Rufus1
December 21st, 2009
12:25 am
The Past 5 years
Some of you guys act like we have not watched this guy for the past 5 years. We have watched a stagnant offense, inconsistent effort, and poor player development. Now you want us to just forget the past 5 years, because we have a good start to the season….I will not.
I give more credit to free agent acquisition, than to the coach. WE HAVE A LOT MORE TALENT, THAN SOME WANT TO ACCEPT. We have people who want to trade a guy who’s career ave is 13pts & 6rbs…THAT IS HOW MUCH TALENT IS ON THIS TEAM!!!
We have seldom played well on the road and never in big games on the road. I will give give Woodson credit when we consistently win big games on the road.
I remember the road 30pt loses at Cleveland, Boston, LA and Orlando. I remember the road loses in the playoffs at Miami, Boston and Cleveland. If Woodson wants my vote, he will have to change that history.
I WILL NOT FORGET THE PAST 5 YEARS, BEACAUSE OF A FEW GOOD WEEKS!!!!!!
I WILL NOT FORGET THE PAST 5 YEARS!!!!
kwooden1
December 21st, 2009
1:09 am
Truth-Serum Those NBA stats you showed, should be removed from NBA.com. Any set of stats that show Chicago (10-15) as the 2nd rated defensive team and the Celtics (21-5) as 29th is an embarrassment!!
kwooden1
December 21st, 2009
1:12 am
All have to say about Sat. nights loss is the Celtics lost to the 76ers (6-19) in Boston the same night the HAWKS destroyed Utah! Tough losses happen!!
I hope the HAWKS will learn from their lack of assists and get their offensive going on the road. I think they need more body movement opposed to just ball movement.
GO HAWKS!
northcyde
December 21st, 2009
1:41 am
Truth . . . I was actually making your point for you, as Hawk Fan #1 said. I posted the accomplishments of those coaches, as well as their record over the past 100+ games, to indirectly validate your point.
Let people on this board tell it, all of those coaches are far superior to Woody. But when you look at that list of coaches, only Phil, Doc and Karl have more than a 4 game win record over Woody in the past 100+ games. And outside of Adleman, Brown, and McMillan, the rest of those coaches have either a major superstar on their squad, or multiple all-stars.
Here’s a contrast for everybody. Woody has now coached the Hawks for 436 games. Since 436 / 4 = 109, let’s look at Woody in 109 game segments:
- first 109 games: 20 – 89 ( .183 winning percentage )
- next 109 games: 41 – 69 ( .376 winning percentage )
- next 109 games: 45 – 64 ( .413 winning percentage )
- last 109 games: 66 – 43 ( .606 winning percentage )
Like most coaches, Woody wasn’t a good enough coach to coach up poor to mediocre talent to be .500 or better ( although injuries devastated us in the 2006 – 07 season . . and kept us from being closer to a .500 team in 2007 – 08 ).
But once he started to get talent at key positions, like Horford at center and Bibby at PG, he was able to coach up the guys to play the way he wants them to play, and he’s been one of the more successful coaches in the league ever since.
- Phil Jackson in first 2 years with Lakers: 87 – 77 . . ( .530 winning percentage )
(((( Kobe then pitches fit, wanting help or he’ll want to be traded ))))
- Lakers struggle, then Bynum FINALLY acts like he’s starting to develop, and the Lakers start to look good with a 31 – 17 record ( .646 winning percentage . . lower than the current winning percentage of the Hawks, by the way )
- So the Lakers before Gasol were: 118 – 94 . . ( .557 winning percentage ) . . lower than the winning percentage of Woody’s last 109 games, by the way.
- Lakers after Gasol trade: 114 – 29 . . ( .797 winning percentage )
So don’t EVER let people tell you that the talent is the only thing making Woody better. The talent makes even the “greatest coach in NBA history” better. People were trying to sell before the season that the Hawks have “peaked” under Woody. Now they’re trying to question whether he can coach up these guys to championship level.
To answer that question, I’ll say exactly what they always say about giving Woody an extension . . .
“let’s see at the end of the year, if he can coach these guys up, not that he has more talent to work with”.
vava74
December 21st, 2009
6:45 am
Games are sometimes lost. It’s that simple.
The team played worse defense than what is necessary to win games: most notably, the re-switching was not there and Bibby (and others) was creamed with bad matches. Maybe the back to back played a factor.
Also, the sudden hot Mo went cold these past couple of games and JT0 laid an egg with his playing time making our bench less dependable.
Marvin was awful on offense: he keeps hanging in the air too much before releasing the ball. He is thinking too much about his shots (I think he is under mental pressure).
J-Smoove has been struggling offensively since he is not getting any calls down under and is starting to be impatient and is not posting up as he did in the beginning of the season.
Look at what Simmons (ESPN) has to say about working the refs (JUST ADD J-SMOOVE to the list of players mentioned):
“Certain players (Rick Barry, Iverson, Rasheed, Antoine Walker) made it much harder on themselves by not playing The Ref Game, which goes like this: Don’t show them up; don’t complain and moan every time you don’t get bailed out; don’t swear at them or menace them in any way; don’t run 25 feet in disbelief after a bad call; and most importantly, call them by their names and not “man,” “ref” or “you.”"
Finally, JJ played a very good game (we certainly did not lose on account of him), however, his legs were a bit down and he missed those crucial shots who were acceptable tries and cannot be considered as forced. They just did not go in.
Now, let’s hope that they do not lay an egg in Minnesota!!!
JeJe
December 21st, 2009
8:24 am
LOL Joe has to take 32 shots to get 40 points
LOL Marvin is young and has potential. Stop making excuses people. He’s only 23!!!!
Daniel
December 21st, 2009
8:53 am
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!
Good grief… I could pretty much guess everyone’s post today before I even logged on.
It’s Woody’s fault, its Marvin’s, it’s Joe’s(which is just hilarious).
Dang people, we just went 6-1, btw 7-5 on the road is a very solid record.
We played lackluster, Josh got in foul trouble and he went into a shell and the Bulls were playing at home and desperate. That pretty much sums it up for me.
Fundamentals
December 21st, 2009
9:52 am
I agree with Daniel. From top to bottom we played yet another lethargic game where we stooped to their level. We expected to just be able to hit a switch, but figured out that doesn’t happen. Blame goes top to bottom. No effort on D, no motion on offense = Hawks loss. I’m just pissed we got to overtime and didn’t wake up when we had a 2nd chance at a brand new game. They didn’t care. They’re happy to have the record they do. I pray one day they get the real killer instinct to put every team away every night regardless.
We’re gonna get beat sometime…I just hate it when we lose to ourselves and not the other team.
BLAME EVERYONE! Even the sorry fans here on tirade! Bulls on Parade!