Some pre-Grizzlies talk
Hey, folks-
My apologies for not coming to you earlier. I was going to blog last night, then this morning and it’s just been one of those days.
Anyway, loyal blogger Nunna Yo Biznezz gave me a few questions he wanted asked in the locker room.
Here are the ones I was able to ask:
Of Al Horford: Will we see you playing power forward this year? Do you miss playing (and dominating) at that spot like you did in college:
1) “That’s a good question. That’s a good question. I don’t’ think it’s happened this year necessarily. Last year I played more forward with Zaza (Pachulia) in at the 5. I don’t know. We’ll see.”
(I’m guessing you can read into it, but it certainly sounded like he wouldn’t mind playing some minutes there.)
2) “See, in college we really didn’t have a center or a power forward. Me and Joakim (Noah) played both. Coach (Billy Donovan) never said, ‘You’re the forward, you’re the center. We just played. In college, it’s kind of like me and Josh (Smith’s) situation right now, except that with Joakim, we could switch. He’d guard the center sometimes. Sometimes I would. It just depended. Here, it’s just different.”
To Jamal Crawford: Did the team need you more or did you need the team more?
“I needed the team more. I needed the team more, but I think we can really help each other. I think that that whole playoff streak, they’ll help me get there. (No active player has been in more games and not played in the playoffs than Crawford) And then once we get into the playoffs, I’ll help them.”
(A great answer, and the last line is kind of, ‘Hey, did he just say that?’”)
To Josh Smith: What’s the difference between the Josh Smith of last year and the Josh Smith of this year?
“Just another year where I’m just growing as a player, maturing as a player, knowing how to play and just doing whatever it takes to win.”
(Not the most colorful answer, but honest.)
(I realize I’m opening a can of worms here, but if you have questions you’d like answered, give me a couple and I’ll try to get to the ones I like best.)
A few links:
First, I was reading ESPN’s Daily Dime this morning, which was a column about the merits of the San Antonio Spurs, when I came upon this:
“San Antonio has played only twice against the league’s six heavyweights (Lakers, Nuggets, Celtics, Cavs, Hawks and Magic)”
I imagine those of you who have followed the team far longer than I have must be amused. John Hollinger just puts the Hawks out there as one of the league’s six heavyweights and feels no need to qualify or substantiate it. I imagine that must make some of you giddy, and make others of you want to fire Mike Woodson and trade Joe Johnson, just out of habit. (kidding)
A way for you to save lives and get Hawks tickets (presumably).
This came up when I did a google news search on Hawks and NBA. It’s information on the betting line of tonight’s game. Just thought it was interesting reading and a different perspective, no more, no less. (This has nothing to do with what I wrote about David Stern the other day or my opinion on legalized NBA gambling.)
My quick two cents on Hawks-Grizz: It’s a game the Hawks can lose. They’re riding high, Memphis on paper looks like a win. But Memphis is long and athletic like the Hawks and on a roll. It’s cliche, but if the Hawks take this game lightly, they’ll be in some trouble. Just ask Al Horford.
“I’ve been paying a lot of attention to them. They’re a fun team to watch. They have a lot of athletic guys. They have a real good center and a solid point guard. They’re a team on the rise. They beat Miami in Miami and lost a close one to Boston. We know we have our hands full [Wednesday].”
Lastly, hope you read my story today on Mike Woodson’s contract situation. I don’t have a lot more to add to what I write, but consider this: Rick Sund could well have fired Woodson when he took the GM job two years ago, but kept him. That says something. You could certainly make the case that the Hawks ought to be re-doing his deal right now. Obviously, Woodson thinks so, as do many of you. But Woodson has often said the following about his situation now, that if he does his job, things will take care of themselves. I asked him about how he was basically betting on himself.
His answer: “I’ve always put the chips on me.”
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222 comments Add your comment
Ken Strickland
December 17th, 2009
11:19 pm
Woodson seems to be a person that doesn’t appear to relish change readily. I don’t think it would be taking a risk to wait until the end of the season to make a decision. Unlike some of his most ardent supporters, he’s intelligent enough to know he’s not going to get a HC offer to coach team with as much talent, depth and growth potential as the Hawks. I also doubt if any youth ladened team that needs further development, and is looking to develop through the draft, would have the least bit of interest in Woodson. I’ll guarantee you that most, if not all, of the GM’s in the league know why BK tried to fire him several times, why Sund only gave him a 2yr extension, and why he decided to hold off on extending this last contract.
RLP-it’s a shame the person(s) you’re addressing is too limited or biased to understand the sheer logic behind your last comment. They seem to think that somehow our annual improvement is TOTALLY the result of something unique, and unidentified, that Woodson does or has done that’s responsible for the teams progress. They are totally unwilling to give any credit or consideration for the annual infusion and upgrade in talent, as well as the annual ORGANIC GROWTH of the existing players.
IDIOT CHECK actually stated he simply couldn’t understand how the team could have improved in wins each yr other than through Woodson. Why can’t he understand how JSmith, JChildress, TDelk and RIvey having a yr of experience in the system under their belts and the additions of veterans TLue, JJohnson and ZPachulia to the starting lineup, along with the additions of MWilliams and SStaudemire, could account for an additional 13 wins.
Grandad
December 18th, 2009
12:05 am
Okay here goes:
newkid – If Mr.Woodson becomes a so-called FA at season’s end then I would simply say bye. That is if we choose not to offer an ext. or
re-up. Now the Hawks themselves become free agents. Can you imagine
the caliber of coaches that would jump at the chance to come to Atl. and be in charge of our stable of athletes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but is Doc R. at the end of his contract at the end of this yr. Don’t think we will not have a plethora of candidates.
It is more important that we keep J.John. than Mr.W.
Big Ray – I must side wi. TS [sort of].
P.Jack had Jordan in Chi. That trumps a Big.
Post Shaq he had Gasol. P.Gasol is their Big no matter if you call him a [4] or [5]. And they have Bynum too. Gasol is the more important.
Pure size 6-9/6-10 is irrelevant. [ben wallace]
Same with a pt. guard – 6-1/6-4 doesn’t matter if you can play.
Back to my point Big Ben was/is a center. (in my opinion)
I think Big Al is a [4]. (IMO)
This is where I differ from the other’s, I think, in that we only need a def. Big in the middle. Not necessarily a starter, doesn’t have to score much. Zaza would be perfect if he could contest shots. I’m not knocking Z. either.
I’m more than happy with Al. Zaza as well.
Another point for those who call for A.S. [Phx.] He’s not a [5] either. Bringing in Shaq was a bad idea because he did not fit Phx.style of play.
Don’t go away TS. I’ll bet I say more nice stuff to and about you than anyone on this board, except for the multiple TS’s you spoke of earlier.
Blast
December 18th, 2009
12:14 am
I see we are still on the Woody debate. Guess now that Hawks are doing pretty well, folks that cannot help it have nothing much to complain about, so they pick what they feel is the weakest link. Before, it was Teague not getting enough minutes. Now that the rookie is playing and doing well, the refrain continues with Woody and Marvin. Here is my take on things.
NO ONE can deny that coach Mike Woodson has done a lot to drag Hawks out of bottom dweller status. Now, he has been helped by Billy Knight who’s vision of stacking his roster with long, athletic bigs that could play multiple positions is finally seeing fruition.
Woody has also been helped by Sund, who saw what the team did last year and how they ended, and realized Hawks needed another top notch scorer to relieve Joe, especially when Joe was being doubled or off his game. So Sund got Crawford from Golden State for a bag of chips. (I still can’t believe GS went for that trade, and I said it several times before: This is the sleeper acquisition of the season! We have not seen all Jamal can do yet!) Where are Speedy and Acie now? And we’ve all seen Jamal’s impact.
Sund also realized Hawks were undersized. So he got Joe Smith and Collins to sign for the cheap. Don’t forget how he resigned Bibby on a dramatic paycut, Zaza and Marvin too, drafted Teague, and suddenly, Woody has a complete roster to work with.
I am not a Woody fan. But I am not a Woody detractor either. Woody has had his shortcomings, but I never believed coaching was Hawks problem. I always felt it was personnel. Now the Hawks are stacked, with a bright future, and noboby can discount Woody out of that equation success. When Hawks had a thin bench, we all moaned that Woody was killing his starters. But we failed to realize that he was doing that because his starters were his best chance of success, of winning. He didn’t have a bench like now that could either keep or extend the lead. You gonna blame the guy for using his best tools to keep his livelihood?
As a measure of a whole, Hawks recent success cannot be confined to a single factor. It’s a case of years of multiple planning coming together. I’ve been here all those years. From the Steve Smith, Mookie, then Mutombo era. Even down to Shareef when he dropped 50 on Detroit. Jason Terry. And all that planning included the coach, player improvement and shrewd GM moves, while not going over the luxury tax.
If Woodson was so bad a coach, he would have been fired a long time ago. I know the ASG has him on the cheap, but they could have gotten an assistant to replace him even cheaper. Right now, barring injuries or letdowns, Hawks have what it takes to get to the East finals. I’m saying if they continue to play to their potential, regardless of how they finish in the playoffs, so long as they show steady in the 2nd round, Woody will be back. All his players endorse him, and I think Jamal is the X factor. he is desperate to win, and will do whatever is required of him. Woody is showing creativity in mixing up his team. Teager is improving and we can’t say Woody didn’t have anything to do with that, so who are we mere mortal fans to think we can dictate to the ASG, Sund or Hawks players who love their coach who to hire?
As of now, Hawks 18-6, and Magic 19-7. Hawks leading the South East division, though tied with Orlando, but a win tomorrow will put Hawks a half game ahead of Orlando.
And guys wanna fire the coach.
Grandad
December 18th, 2009
12:31 am
Blast:
Haven’t seen a fire “W” today.
I was responding to a quetion from newkid.[12:05 AM]
Most of the debate (humorous too) was the performance TS put on today.
You would have to go back a ways but Ive been supportive recently
(on this blog) of Mr.W.
Blast
December 18th, 2009
12:42 am
All those wall street bankers and Dow Jones investors drive the economy to the brink and they get a govt bailout? Where is the bailout for us simple folks that live honest and pay taxes?
Quagmire
December 18th, 2009
1:13 am
Giggidy giggidy.. Who wouldn’t want to give an extension to their Woody?
South ga boy in the atl
December 18th, 2009
2:00 am
I have to admit that during the offseason I still thought we needed a true big and would have been happy to see Marvin traded for just such a player. I was wrong. Al is as strong a 6′10″ center as there is in the NBA, and with josh’s ability to jump out of the gym, and zsa zsa and Joe smith’s tenacity has worked. It has all worked beautifully from a BIG’S standpoint. And don’t tell me we haven’t faced Cleveland and only faced the Magic and Celtics once each because i was convinced when we out-rebounded Portland on the road. Oden and aldridge are younger and far more athletic than the cavs or celtics or magic and our big’s schooled em. I used to think we were one player from elite status but I was wrong. We only need 2 things now. We must have joe resigned and we simply need more time for our 3 starters that are 24 or younger along with a 21 yr old Jeff teague to continue to mature. And of course, stability at the head coaching position. Resign woody already.
honest_abe
December 18th, 2009
6:52 am
lol astro… nah man i was giving woody his props. i still think he’s a putz and that the hawks will eventually flounder… but i don’t mind being wrong on this prognostication.
now lets discuss the important stuff. is josh going to make the all star team? why can’t josh, lebron, kobe and vince enter the slam dunk contest. that would be epic.
nice seeing teague get more minutes. boy is going to be a good one.
Grandad
December 18th, 2009
9:12 am
Blast:
“W” short for Woodson. The other ‘W’ is an even bigger Moron!
Fundamentals
December 18th, 2009
9:20 am
Funny that Idiot Watch would have Idiot in his name. All this debate over Woodson is dissappointing. It’s the Atlanta Spirit & Sund’s job to say like men, “We’ll decide on Mr. Woodson’s contract after a set date”. It’s then Woodson’s job to show he has a T-bag by moving on and doing his job. That way he knows when to worry or not worry.
If I’m not wrong they stated they’d handle it when his contract concluded. That’s at the end of the season. Most likely late June. All you’re doing by rehashing this crap is making Woodson feel bad, and others look bad.
For the lengthy roster posts I have some Questions:
Could you win with those rosters?
Is it Woodson’s fault they didn’t have the right pieces?
Do you think we’re beginning to attract quality free agents with our steady improvement?
Are the kids we still have the same then as now? Do we have the same Josh Smith now that we had then?
Isn’t sticking through the growth and mentoring the same as coaching at times?
Isn’t much of our success attributed to each and every person who is involved and their personal growth each year from Joe Johnson & Woody all the way to the end of the bench?
Whatever happened to having decency, respect and character?
Whether you like Woodson or not we have a good team. The success if due entirely to the sum of the parts. Every player, every coach, every owner and every administrator has a part in that. It’s not on one person.
We don’t need anything to help this team but solid committed fans that support the current product and look for the best for our team when the time for change arises.
darrell starks
December 18th, 2009
9:27 am
The hawks are playing well right now, but i still say lets get andris biedrins if we can for a 1st rounder, just throwing it out there RICK SUND.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
December 18th, 2009
9:51 am
Strickland, yeah, why would any team with a middling payroll and a few lottery picks on the team look at Woody over the past fewy years and think that he can take the team to the 2nd roound of the playoffs.
Here’s my guess… most GMs know that some players CAN’T be developed. Each and every GM has drafted players who washed out despite the efforts of the coach. Some of you seem to think that Sund doesn;t have much moore access to the onner workins than we do. Sund attends practices and gets to see how Woody’s staff works with the young players. Do you think that Sund didn’t watch what was happening last season with Acie Law? If he was concvinced that Acie was being mismanaged, would he have given up on him?
I think Woody’s extension is more of an issue of dollars and less about “evaluuating the coach”. If the ASG is incapable of giving Woody a quality offer, then why tick him off now, in the middle of the season?
KevinA
December 18th, 2009
10:11 am
Tough game for the Hawks. Tougher than the last 4. The Jazz have won 7 of last 10. Our assists totals have plumped over the last four games to a 22.3 avg but the Jazz also share the ball at a 25.9 assist clip.
They have two players that some would argue are better than anyone on the Hawks team. Boozer, 20 pt’s .555 FG% with 11 reb per game. Then Williams who is one of the top point guards in the league with a FG% of .489 and 10 assists per game.
Our 3 pt shooting has hurt us and maybe lost us a couple games this year but we have been hot the last few games. The Jazz do not shoot near as many 3 pt shots as we do and at a worse percentage. 106-311 .341. The Hawks numbers: 157-439 .358.
The good news – were at home and the Jazz have dropped the last couple here. We should be well rested and confident.
If balanced scoring and good ball movement continues our defense should take the day. We need our big’s to play tough and turn the Jazz into a jump shooting team.
Daniel
December 18th, 2009
10:17 am
Fundamentals- Be careful that 9:20 post was logical, mature and fair. That kind of talk had no place on this blog.
Daniel
December 18th, 2009
10:23 am
Astro- I agree with your post. However, I think the extension of Woodson has more to do with sticking to the plan, and not bringing up a controversy during the season. Sund has adopted a no in season contract policy which in the long run is a good policy and no reason to make exceptions now. Particularly since he is new in the job (with the Hawks).
I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill with contract talk. Things will handle themselves, and I have no doubt that both parties will be satisfied in the off season. If Woodson does well and is able to leverage other offers for more money, then good for him, but he will stay the Hawks head coach. Sorry Ken.
Astro Joe
December 18th, 2009
10:30 am
Daniel, I agree. Sund has shown himself to be a shrewd negotiator. At the same time, I haven’t seen this ownership group pay big bucks for a coach (or GM for that matter). Both teams (Hawks and Thrashers) seemingly are paying below market value for their GMs and coaches. I guess what I am suggesting is that if the Hawks went on a 20-5 run in their next 25 games, I still doubt that the ASG would want to unveil their desired coaching salary for Woody.
Undisputed Champ
December 18th, 2009
10:55 am
Woodson has already done well, a point that seems to escape irrational conversation.
Astro Joe, no doubt your first premise is an accurate one. Keep in mind that Sund never completed a championship level tour with the Mavericks. He left them as a good team but not a great one.
In his poker playing efforts concerning Woodson’s salary, he got called out and did not know that Woody was the quality of coach that he is, after all this is Woodsons first head coaching assignment. Now that its clear(should be after five + years) that Woodson is showing first tier ability, to have offered an 2-3 year extension at the current rates would now seem like a steal.
Right now Woodson’s hawks are writing history with what has taken place over these past 5+ years. Its a great story and a great epic that we are privileged to witness. Make no mistake about it. No doubt woodson’s stock has risen and will continue to rise with each win.
I guess ESPN, and TNT have taken note.The coach’s polls have, and opposing teams have. This team is well coached and well prepare and has perfect unity and chemistry, a sign of an excellent coach. Those are facts, not opinions.
Let the naysayers , and prophets of doom continue to falsely prophesy.The more talent you add to the hawks the more Woodson utilizes has options and the more victories we achieve. – GO HAWKS.
Undisputed Champ
December 18th, 2009
11:06 am
KevinA I dont know if youve ever play high level basketball, but…. you shoot the long range shots and the threes even when you slump. You do that to hone your skill. You shoot right through the slump, which is going to happen to every body and his momma.
At the end of the day (season) the percentages play out. Its hard to gauge talent by micro analyzing.
I do agree with you Boozer is a load. Their offense is the retrofit of the Malone/Stockton exchange. It seems to be the only offense Sloan knows. He never won a championship with it, but is perennially good.
The bottom line is execution. The coach doesnt play. If you accept the style of offense (buy in) then you execute it. They have the right tools to pick and roll and they execute. We have the right tools to run multiple styles of offense and we also execute.
Who ever executes best tonight will win!
Ken Strickland
December 18th, 2009
11:19 am
ASTRO JOE-no GM or owner would consider a HC that’s had as many high 1st rd picks, mulitple 1st rd picks and lottery picks as Woodson capable of developing young players and a young team if he only has 3 of those picks left on the roster after only 5yrs. The Hawks growth has been accomplished primarily through FA acquisitions. You take away Smoove, Marvin, Horford and Teague, and the remaining 2/3 of the team is comprised of veteran FA signees.
While Smoove, Horford and Marvin comprise our young core, there’s no way we become the team we are today without BK and Sund signing or trading for FA vets over the yrs like JJ, JCrawford, FMurray, Zaza, MEvans, TLue, AJohnson, AHarrington, JSmith and MBibby, which compensated for the lack of development of our numerous draft picks over the last 5yrs.
Even though we made it to the 2nd rd of last yrs playoffs, the telling factor was in how we atruggled to put away Miami and it’s one man show, and were totally noncompetetive and embarrassed by Cleveland in that 2nd rd. Woodson didn’t show any initiative or creativity to combat what Cleveland was doing against us. Although MBrown chose to double JJ throughout the series, whenever he touched the ball, Woodson waited until the 4th gm of the sweep to double Lebron. As a result, that was the only gm that wasn’t a total blowout.
Sund knows this team is talented and deep enough to finish as one of the top seeds with Woodson, but can it hold it’s own against the other top teams under playoff conditions with him in charge. It’s all about expectations, and fortunately Sund seems to have higher expectations for this team than some of our fans.
Ken Strickland
December 18th, 2009
11:55 am
RUFUS1-once again you’ve proven to be a voice of reason. How can anyone with an actual IQ say Woodson has done an excellent job of developing the accumulation of high 1st rd picks, multiple 1st rd picks and lottery picks he’s had when only 3 of those picks remain? And then you have these same clowns spueing unrelenting complaints about the total lack of development of 2 of the remaining 3 picks thats been with Woodson the longest?
If you take away Smoove, Marvin, Horford and Teague, the remaining 2/3 of this team is comprised of veteran FA’s. Our progress up to this season has been primarily due to BK and Sunds acquisition of veteran FA’s like AHarrington, TLue, AJohnson, JJ, MBibby, RMurray, JCrawford, ZPachulia, JSmith, MEvans etc. How can anyone be so blind they can’t see the tremendous impact that bringing a veteran like MBibby had on the team when he arrived or the tremendous impact JCrawford has had this yr.
EXACTLY WHAT DID WOODSON DO TO DEVELOP EITHER OF THESE 2 PLAYERS? HOW CAN HE, AND NOT THE GM(S)THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE TRADES, GET CREDIT FOR THEIR OBVIOUS IMPACT ON THE TEAMS OVERALL IMPROVEMENT?
While the improvement of this team over the last 5+yrs didn’t occur in a vacuum or without Woodson’s assistance, it definitely didn’t happen solely due to his imput or assistance, and it certainly wasn’t due to his development of the many high 1st and 2nd rd draft picks he’s had.
Big Ump
December 18th, 2009
1:00 pm
Just because you a high draft picks don’t make you guaranteed to have success in the NBA or roll player. And just because you traded for veterans also don’t guaranteed that the team will make the playoff. Last time I look there are teams who have traded for veteran players and high draft choice and is still below the Hawks. Anyone who played sports know you have to have a coach who can convince the players to play into the system,trust each other, play team ball. Few of us on this blog can’t seem to reliaze that or have some other personal agenda
about a player or HC that they don’t like. You can’t let what in your heart confuse your way of thinking. There is not but a few bloggers who
don’t give the former and present GM credit. It’s a team thing. After all I said check the standing and see where the hawks are. Right! we have a very good team and HC.
IDIOT CHECK
December 18th, 2009
2:24 pm
When your points have no merit, do what ken stickland does, distort the facts and the truth, whine, b!tch and prove the proverb misery loves company, by begging for some one to authenticate his ignorance.
I was going to correct him on the draft pick issue seeing that the majority turn out to be bursts. But I see that Big Ump has already burst him across the chops!