Greetings-
Hope all are well and enjoying another win. A few thoughts.
1) Randolph Morris looked pretty solid again. Mike Woodson always talks about how bench guys have to perform when they’re on the floor and take advantage of their minutes, and he’s done that. I don’t know how he fits into the scheme of things, but it would seem like he’s making a strong case for more time.
2) Same thing with Mo Evans. It seems like he’s trying to prove something out there. He was 4-for-4 from 3-point range Sunday. “Mo’s playing great,” Jamal Crawford said. “I told him, wherever he’s at in his head, mentally, just stay there. He’s locked in right now and he’s doing a heck of a job.”
3) I started looking last night for the last time the Hawks won three games in a row by more than 20 points. I got to the early 90’s and couldn’t find an example. I’ll keep looking, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s never happened. Even though the competition isn’t much, this is a pretty remarkable stretch of basketball we’re watching. Crawford: “We don’t care about who scores. We have so many offensive weapons. It just feels good to get a win and everybody be a part of it.”
Josh Smith: “We have a lot of players that can score the ball. I knew (before the season) that if we did it the right way, that we could do special things this season.”
4) Jeff Teague is coming into his own. He said before the game that he’s playing his game, not being deferential, not worrying about mistakes, and that’s exactly what it looks like. He said he’s shooting the floater more, which he hadn’t used since the preseason. I’m not sure why he wouldn’t – it seemed like he was choosing layups instead and was either missing or getting blocked – but it probably again goes back to being comfortable.
5) I read an interesting column on si.com from an interview with David Stern. He acknowledged the possibility down the road of legalized NBA gambling and talked about possible rules changes, such as permitting teams to play whatever defense they want, allowing offensive players to interfere with balls in the cylinder and other things.
I’m curious what rules changes you would make to make the NBA game better. I’ve long thought that going to the international trapezoidal 3-second lane and calling offensive 3 seconds would improve the game. I’ve never been a big fan of post-up basketball. Expanding the lane, I’d think, would increase movement and more face-to-the-basket play.
Some links: game story from the Star-Ledger.
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109 comments Add your comment
niremetal
December 14th, 2009
10:53 am
Allowing offensive players to interfere with the ball in the cylinder would be a terrible idea.
Good to see RandMo rising above the epithets thrown at him over the past season. He’s been looking good, even though it’s only been garbage time. Gives me a little hope that he might be able to step up and do more if Zaza, Josh, or Al have to miss a few games.
Rufus1
December 14th, 2009
10:56 am
John Hollinger’s predictions
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 14th, 2009
10:57 am
Don’t mess with the rules. We love the NBA for what it is.
icecold
December 14th, 2009
11:00 am
toronto needs to be in the play offs so we can play them the first round. we need a team like toronto for a easy sweep for the first round. so we can rest our players for the second round… but i pray that the second round, we play boston again….. because they cant beat us with everybody healthy… i trully believe we are better then them.. only team i dont wanna play is orlando!!!! anybody else is fair game….
and by the way… im 3-0, and al horford had a double double in both games, yeah!!!… lol
icecold
December 14th, 2009
11:03 am
its hard for the hawks starting five to get the triple doubles and the 30 point games and all the stats they suppose to be getting because they keep blowing teams out… its not a bad thing… not at all… its great.. i just hope everybody realize that about the hawks, because i do want at least 3 of them to make the all star team!!!! i really wanna see bibby and josh smith and al horford make it!!!and of course jo johnson
icecold
December 14th, 2009
11:09 am
they shouldnt change any rules,.. because they had to deal with them for years,, why change a rule now.. jus like when they tried to change the basketball.. it didnt work out and they went right back to the old one… but i do think they shouldnt be so sensitive on fouls as much… its a mans game
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 14th, 2009
11:36 am
I live in B’ham, for some reason the Nets game wasn’t on my SportSouth channel. It was the Grizzlies and Heat. Needless to say, I was quite the mad little Hawks fan yesterday.
WW
December 14th, 2009
12:24 pm
The hawks are really fun to watch this year!!!
Joe J with 10 assists….wow!……that’s what we need from him more……sometimes he keeps the ball too long when the double team comes, and sometimes he forces a shot when there’s just nothing there….way to go sunday night, Joe!
And Teague, he’s coming in to his own!….with he and Jamal, we’ve now got two guys who can take it to the basket and create!!!!
I’m with the don….Sunday night sport south was supposed to have the hawks and I ended up with Memphis in Chattanooga too!….boo!!
Big Ray
December 14th, 2009
12:36 pm
Good to see RandMo rising above the awful physical condition and resulting court performance of last season.
theZaZaguy
December 14th, 2009
12:46 pm
Hey Don,
It’s aonly a two hour drive. You could have bought a ticket for like 5 bucks. Now you know.
theZaZaguy
December 14th, 2009
12:48 pm
Good thing we have Collins this year. It’s always nice to have a fat 7 footer to ridicule and RandMo doesn’t fit the bill any more.
ILL-logical
December 14th, 2009
12:51 pm
Stern is desperately trying to find a way to get the NBA out of the bad financial futre that is looming without cutting franchises. Sad.
The good news about Randolph Morris is that he is playing and doing fairly well when he gets the call. The not so good news is that he is not the banger that the team needs to compete in the playoffs with the big boys. He is what he is: a nice low post scorer who lacks the upper body strength and aggressiveness that would make him a more valuable member of the Hawks.
A note to Woodson regarding his coaching style: Sit down! Neither the team nor the fans want you standing and glaring at every play , especially if we are 20 points ahead.Makes you look insecure.
theZaZaguy
December 14th, 2009
12:58 pm
Have you noticed that when the players are introduced and they cut to Woodson, he’s always writing on his clipboard? I guess he’s trying to look cerebral, but he just looks like a D-bag. That being said. I like him.
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 14th, 2009
1:57 pm
Hey ZaZa guy. I’ve already made that drive a handful of times this season (committed). Can’t pay my way for everygame. Especially for the Nets.
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 14th, 2009
1:59 pm
Ooops….Now YOU Know.
Heat Check!!!
Lacsho
December 14th, 2009
2:07 pm
Ray, Randmo is looking real good. I just don’t understand why he’s not getting any PT, especially since Joe Smith is out.
The Hawks are really looking good!!!!
theZaZaguy
December 14th, 2009
2:29 pm
Don,
Even the Nets game can be entertaining. Not that I blame you for not making it out here. Although I try to make all the games in case I get another run-in with Nique.
Funny story at the game. These two fine ladies walked up to Seydel (one of the owners) and flashed their tickets like he was in their seats. His first look was “Are you kidding me?”. His second look was a glance to his right. I think the older gentleman who was ushering ran about a 4.5 40 to get there and show the ladies where their seats actually were. Quite entertaining.
Dap01
December 14th, 2009
2:47 pm
What does Nique mean with “heat check”. I am almost embarrashed for him.
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 14th, 2009
2:49 pm
And I’m embarrased for you spelling embarrased wrong
Daniel
December 14th, 2009
2:49 pm
nire- Randmo has deserved every epithets thrown at him. Yes, I have to say I have admired his work so far this year. Going into the stands after a ball in a blow out, has he finally(?) after 5 years in the league, learned what it takes to become a player? Maybe.
But, I have zero sympathy for the guy; he has done more damage to his career with his laziness than any words a fan might use.
It also helps to have Jason Collins to make you look better.
Daniel
December 14th, 2009
3:07 pm
Ken- are you aware that your blog is not appearing on the sports main page?
Hoops
December 14th, 2009
3:37 pm
As I predicted before the season started, the Hawks will be the # 2 seed in the East come play off time! You gotta luv this team! GO HAWKS!!!
Rule Changes – 1. Allow teams to play whatever defense they want to play. 2. Do not change any other rules.
Sautee
December 14th, 2009
3:45 pm
I was out of town for the last two games, but Mrs. Sautee taped them for me. When I came back Sunday night, she had watched the NJ game, and she made an interesting comment. We were talking about the All-Star ballot and she said that for the guards, she would vote for Bibby and Jamal. I asked her about Joe Johnson and she said the following:
“Joe Johnson is good, but he’s not nearly as good as Woody THINKS he is.”
An interesting and fairly astute comment from a casual fan. I’m delighted that she keeps up enough to have this degree of awareness. I tend to agree with her, but I’d still put JJ on MY All-Star ballot.
Sautee
December 14th, 2009
3:50 pm
Nire,
About the rule changes….
If one were allowed to interfere in the cylinder, then look for George Muresan to make a comeback. He’d just stand with his head inside the net and NO one could score!
bfred
December 14th, 2009
4:16 pm
More nice press – Hawks #4 and 3 (ahead of Orlando!) in the ESPN and SI power rankings, respectively.
doc
December 14th, 2009
4:36 pm
our guys are going to have to earn the distinction of being better than the magic on the court, not in ratings. only shows how meaningless it is as we have been waxed consistently by the magic when we sort of owned them the way charlotte owns us. one of the ratings was by computer on someone’s own rating system as if to add cred to his system. said the hawks would end up with 57 wins only one behind the lakers and ahead of the magic at the end of the season trailing only the lakers and celts. i have said they can challenge for the 3 spot if all goes to plan youth stays healthy while age declines.
RLP
December 14th, 2009
4:43 pm
One of the things that stands out if you look at the NBA standings is the fact that the Lakers record looks so good but the won lost figures are a bit deceiving because while teams like the Hawks have played 11 road games and the Celtics have played 12 the Lakers have only played 5 road games. Also while the Celtics are 11-1 on the road the Lakers are only 3-2. As the season progress it will be interesting to see how that team does on the road. In two of those road games they won, against Houston and Oklahoma City the games went inot overtime before they prevailed. Is it possible that they can be exposed a little during their current road trip. I would not expect it because on this eastern swing they are playing teams with losing records – the Bulls tonight and then the Bucks, Nets and Pistons. But it will be interesting to watch.
Ken Sugiura
December 14th, 2009
5:00 pm
Daniel – didn’t know that, will look into it.
About Morris – he basically said today that last year he didn’t have the right attitude coming off the bench, of being ready to play each time. Al Horford called it as he saw it, which is why I appreciate him. he said Morris has the talent, but it’s a matter of effort about him, and that he’s playing with effort this year. it’s in a notebook that should be posted soon if it hasn’t already.
Sautee – way to bring up Gheorge Muresan. For what it’s worth, only offensive players would be allowed to interfere.
RLP – Good points. I think these things can only be sorted out over the long haul. We’ll know a lot more about the league and certainly the Hawks after they get through a tough schedule in January. That said, hard to believe Miami is at .500.
gwite
December 14th, 2009
5:14 pm
Daniel,
Just to help you get your “facts” straight, this is RandMo’s third season. So he’s been pro for a little over 2 seasons at this time. There are rookies in the league older than he is.
I imagine, up until now, his girth has helped him get as far as he has, so far. Which is not too bad for being the “lazy old slob” you have ascribed him to be. After all, that m.o. has worked for Jason Collins for going on 8 years or so.
That weight helped him hold his own against Dwight Howard during his high school years and helped him into a respectable college career. However “fat, lazy, unmotivated” he was, that’s what he knew, and it worked. In his relatively short pro career, he has learned that is not working any more, and he is apparently working extremely hard now, to do what it will take to remain a pro.
Keep trashing him all you want for his “1 year” history with the Hawks, but get the facts straight, and don’t embellish.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2009
5:15 pm
I assume that interfering with the cylinder onluy applies to the offense, otherwise, that is a straight-stupid idea. The thought of someone flying in to cathc a ball hanging on the rim and slamming it back home, that would bring some incremental entertainment value.
Sautee, if Mrs. Sautee watched Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Danny Granger and several other 1-3 time All-Stars every game over 4+ seasons, she may also conclude that those guys are overrated. Familiarity breeds dog-house residents… or something like that.
I MUS WRITE
December 14th, 2009
5:35 pm
Dap01- HEAT CHECK{{{{{{ LOL….. Like I said a while ago, being articulate and speaking well must not have been in the job description.
Ditto Daniel,That man deserved every “Randolph Morris is a wet diaper” epithet throw his way. 30 pounds overweight and stinking up the gym during garbage time gets no love from me. I will aplaud Randolph for getting in shape and making the most of his limited minutes. He should have taken this approach the summer of 08.
I would like to see him get more minutes,he has nice low post offense,but his defense needs work.
Whass up Hoops,I remember you saying that,I said 3rd right in front of the Celtics, Looks like Rasheed Wallace was’nt the biggest free agent signing in the EC after all.
David Stern is sippn that sauce with Grandad lol…. Interfering with the ball in the cylinder is a horrible idea – its going to cut the scoring big time just like hand checking did. I could see Smoove,Lebron,and Birdman with 10 blocks a game easy. What they should do is cut down on the number of panzzee azz flagrant fouls called. O put and end to the flopping calls as well.
So Marvin had the squirtz huh…O well Mo played great in his place,Im not sure he shouldnt be starting anyway.
Iz it me or does Marvin get his shots blocked alot,seems like he every other drive and shot within 10 feet of the rim is getting air mailed.
Here we go again, Dam Tiger….. Seems as tho the state of Florida is getting into the situation. Apparently beating your husband with a golf club in front of the kids is reason for investigation. I hope he doesnt get his yungnz snatched up for adultry.Thats would be the saddest part of this whole fiasco
Jason Collins needs to start getting in shape right now maybe by spring he’ll be ready to contribute as of now not so much…Seriously could Siler have been any worse?
NIMBERS!!! “Josh Smith has great nimbers across the board tonite” This aient right yall……..
Samuel
December 14th, 2009
5:39 pm
I would love to see the rule where teams advance the ball past half court after a time out done away with. I would also be in favor of allowing the zone defense and any other defense. That’s basketball.
I hate tampering with the goal tending rules and please don’t go to that funky trapaziod. What are we trying to do here. OH, I know.
Overall, the NBA game is just fine. Why else would grown men be up talking about it a 2 and 3 in the morning?
Woody=COY
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2009
5:45 pm
Ken, please ask Woody if he can still smell the triple bacon cheeseburger on Collins’ breath when he shows up for games and practices. Or the 2 doezen Krispy Kreme donuts that he devours in the Philips Arena parking lot. Thanks.
bigdave
December 14th, 2009
5:47 pm
Daniel…
rumor has it Bud Foster is UGA’s target…
doc
December 14th, 2009
5:47 pm
ken … For what it’s worth, only offensive players would be allowed to interfere.
seems like it would almost be impossible to defend. not sure that this type of rule would work if the o guy can rattle it on the rim and the d guy couldnt move inside the cylinder to defend. sounds stupid to me and reminds me of nerf ball in a way played at home by yourself.
I MUS WRITE
December 14th, 2009
5:52 pm
GWITE- Regardless of how long he’s been in the league, theres no excuse for being out of shape and lazy. Its his own fault that he didnt put in the work for last season or in his time with the Knicks.
The Ft.Wayne Red Antz will bring you back to reality real quick
Come on man, High school….Howz about he was 6′11 in high school and bigger than everybody else,with that size and low post skill you should be dominant at the AAU level- I dont think him beind a lard ass had anything to do with it.
I MUS WRITE
December 14th, 2009
5:57 pm
6′11 and being more skilled
nunna yo biznezz
December 14th, 2009
6:10 pm
when u get a chance ken,i got a few questions for u to ask the players..
bibby: how far are u from being 100percent?
jj:how does it feel that you now have a player on the 2nd team(crawford)to fill in for you and we still get points from the 2 guard positition?
js:what is the difference of josh smith last year and josh smith this year?
mw:what part of marvin williams game,that you have,that the fans have not seen yet??
horford:will we ever see you playing the power forward again,here,in atlanta?/and,do u miss out playing and over shawdowing other power forwards like u did in college?
woody:out of all the close family,friends,and others that you’re associated with,whom would you say feels that they know coaching better than you,and tries to tell u who to play,who to sit,what plays to run for a certain player,etc…
CRAWFORD:
i hope this is not a dumb question,but some might agree that it is,lol..
atlanta is a playoff team..and u never been to the playoffs but u are of playoff star caliber..
would u say that this team needed u more or that u needed this team more with the success that the hawks have had this season..
i’ll hang up and listen..
HEAT CHECK!!!!!!
December 14th, 2009
6:20 pm
YO,NUNNA- KEN WOULD GET FIRED AND FOR ASKING THE LAST QUESTION TO CRAW,AND CRAW WOULD BE TRADED,BUT I THINK HE WOULD ANSWER THAT IN PRIVACY AND I DONT THINK ITS A SELFISH ONE TO ASK.THATS ONLY A QUESTION HE MIGHT GET AN ANSWER AMONG HIS BUDDIES THO.
gwite
December 14th, 2009
6:24 pm
I Mus Write,
So now, that RandMO has lost all that excess weight, hustles, performs well when given time, we yell “lardass”. Where’s the sense in that?
Let it go.
gwite
December 14th, 2009
6:55 pm
Enter your comments here
Ken Sugiura
December 14th, 2009
9:13 pm
nunna – some good questions. i will definitely try to get answers for you. for what it’s worth, i’m sure crawford would answer his question in a diplomatic way, and i suspect he would not be lying. as best i can tell, he really, really likes being on the hawks.
for what it’s worth, gwite, Morris is actually in his fourth season. i wish i’d asked him how much weight he’d lost.
and this is funny – when i googled “Randolph Morris” the first link was an ad that said, “Shop for Randolph Morris at Vintage Tub.”
MannyT
December 14th, 2009
11:15 pm
So Hollinger’s stats guarantee that the Hawks will be in the playoffs. Where was this when Lon Kruger needed it
As for the rules, I could go for the international lane. The way many of the Hawks get moved off the blocks when they post, it would not matter for the locals. Keep those hands away from the rim. A sot that hang and bounces around the rim is more exciting. If the offense gets to dunk it while it is on the rim, the defense should get to swat it away. Just leave the balls in the cylinder alone (that sounds a bit inappropriate…hmmm.)
KenS, post up play is good for basketball and big men. If you eliminate all the big man play, you will end up with fancy HS ball. Also blog doesn’t show up on main page. If we read it backwards will some real Hawks secrets be revealed?
RandMo’s improvement makes Jason Collins look waaay out of shape for a pro hoopster. Maybe Collins slot would have been better used by Garret Siler, China Baller!
BWAF
I MUS WRITE
December 15th, 2009
1:22 am
GWite read my comment again……I said his sucess at the AAU level had nothing to do with him being over weight.
drewscrilla
December 15th, 2009
2:30 am
How about Randmo gets some PT since joe smith is out instead of overplaying our starters. Last game woody should have let someone step up instead of playing 4 guards at one time i mean thats why we have backups right. LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 15th, 2009
3:18 am
Start Mo Evans!!!!….Bring Marvin Gay Squilliams off the pine!!
Daniel
December 15th, 2009
8:25 am
gwite- I apologize for getting Randolph professional time mixed up. In my mind I had his on again/off again Kentucky career added in.
But, let’s be clear. It is great that Randolph is hustling and “looking like a player”. The Hawks can use him and ultimately that’s all I care about. But, the guy is a professional athlete who has been pampered his whole life from AAU ball through college and into the pro’s. His only JOB is to be in shape and be ready to play, and including his college career where he massively underachieved he is just now figuring this out?!? Some guys don’t have the talent, sometimes the breaks don’t fall your way, but there is NEVER an excuse for laziness, for lack of effort. And for me as a Hawks fan, up until this year he has been an embarrasment to the name on the front of his jersey. And, for this Hawks fan it is unacceptable.
Yes, Collins looks bad so far this year. He has definitely taken over for Randolph as the slob on the pine role. But, his career thus far (as limited as it is) is twice that of Randolph’s. Call me heartless or whatever, but I have no sympathy for laziness and you get no bonus points for finally doing your job.
ps. gwite- I always respect you and your basketball opinions. I don’t want this response to come across in any other way. Respect.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
8:44 am
Amen Daniel. No excuse for not giving 100%! I grew up killing myself for 1st place at anything I tried. Nowdays kids are just happy to participate. I can’t stand that. Where along the way did we lose the passion and fire to be the best that we can be? Anything less is unacceptable in pro sports or life for that matter.
I’ll praise his good effort. No one has an argument defending the four years prior to this.
Daniel
December 15th, 2009
8:52 am
Fundamentals- The only true win is when you are pushed/push yourself to achieve more than you thought was possible. Not to get too sunday school here, but that is the message behind Jesus’ parable about the servants and the talents. And, if we are talking about some kid or even college player who works hard to lose weight and rededicate himself to his game, then yeah, he gets props. But, a pro? C’mon, I’m sorry but 800,000 buys a pretty good gym membership. Oh wait that’s right you have access to the best equipment, personal trainers and chef’s around. Maybe it has just been too easy for him.
But, keep diving after balls Randolph, even in blow out games. That is the way to regain some respect.
Daniel
December 15th, 2009
8:55 am
btw- my last statement was not meant to be sarcastic.
ILL-logical
December 15th, 2009
9:22 am
With the Braves committed to mediocrity and the Falcons unable to rise above it, the Hawks are in a great position to capture the hearts( and wallets) of Atlanta’s fickle sports fans.
A winning record with a young and talented team that has a nice blend of home grown talent and experienced NBA name brand guys is a great selling point.The key is a marketing program that will create a base of lifelong fans.
Jamal and Josh have established some very good projects with their respective foundations geared to young people.ZaZa’s popularity continues to grow and even Joe has started to go public with some of his efforts.
Now the organization has to brainstorm on how to develop a loyal fan base that will support the team through thick and thin. The success of the current team is an excellent starting point.
Daniel
December 15th, 2009
9:24 am
Ill- I like your post. Except the Braves are going to be back this season. Count on it.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
9:27 am
Daniel, I was very excited to see him diving into the stands. Shows he’s finally realizing Woody doesn’t consider garbage time garbage. He’s out for every minute of every game like his career depends on it. Mainly because it does.
I hope the trend continues. He could be a really nice piece. Hopefully the progress really means something to him. I work with other people’s kids every day. It’s a hard message to get across.
We’ve got two tough games ahead w/ Memphis playing well. They’ve got a good group that’s showing some promise. A dangerous team like we used to be. They can beat anyone on any given night.
Utah will always be a tough grind, followed by Chicago. The Chicago game will definitely show us whether Woody has used the bench enough. Fatigue and let-down will be a big issue vs Chicago.
Next few should really tell us alot about our teams character.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
9:37 am
I originally fell in love with Atlanta’s Air Force in the mid 80’s. Nothin can stop us, we’re Atlanta’s Air Force!
Who wouldn’t want to be Spud as a kid after watching the hometown treatment he got over on ‘Nique. That or overcoming the facial contusions he got in training camp. Both inspiring stories of overcoming adversity.
Even inspired me to read one of the few books I read in school – Rising High – a biography about Spud’s career.
terrell barron
December 15th, 2009
10:14 am
Rod, Marvin vs. Rudy Gay tomorrow night. Your dream matchup. lol!
O'Brien
December 15th, 2009
12:21 pm
Sautee,
I’m surprised Mrs. Sautee would vote for Bibby and not JJ.
ILL-logical,
I dont like Woody’s scowl on the sidelines either. Even if we are up by 20 in the 4th, he stands there and glares at the players. On DOB’s Braves blog, some bloggers refer to Soriano as MFIKY because of the scowl on his face when he comes in (IKY stands for I’ll kill you, and I’m sure everyone knows what the MF stands for). I think that name suits Woody as well.
The interesting thing is sometimes we are down big is when he sits on the bench and does nothing. I like Phil Jackson, he just sits there abs let his players play through. Rick Adelman does a lot of sitting too. That being said, as long as the Hawks keep winning, I dont care if Woody does hand stands during the game lol.
I MUS WRITE
For a guy who is 6′9″ and supposed to be athletic, Marvin gets his shot blocked a lot, even by shorter players.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
1:16 pm
Marvin getting blocked is a confidence issue. He was close to breaking out again before he got sick. I expect him to be rocking the rim soon. He has the ability, just shakey on the confidence when it comes to bringing it strong to the basket at times.
Same thing applies for Teague. We know he can jam & he’s blocked some amazing shots, but early on he was getting packed right and left.
Confidence = highlights!
RLP
December 15th, 2009
1:37 pm
Concerning Marvin – There have been many here who have called for moving Marvin to the second unit and replacing him with Mo. I have always disagreed with that advocacy because I have thought that Marvin’s potential is such that it was better to leave him in the starting line up. But with the last game I am having some second thoughts. There are some definite positives with such a change.
1. Marvin is currently the 5th option on offense. I think it has also become part of his personality to defer to the others. If he were moved to the second unit and made the second option behind Jamal then it might force him to become more offensive minded.
2 Playing on the second unit you could move him inside where whatever talents he have might shine through better. If he does indeed have the wingspan of a seven footer then this move just might allow him to improve facets of his game in a better light.
3 Right now Mo is playing lights out and deserves more PT. Last year he lead the team in three point shooting percentage. Would it not be better to have the better shooting shorter guy playing on the wing?
4. Making the move would say to everyone on the team that there are no sacred cows on this team. You earn PT based on results.
Having made the argument I am confident that the coaching staff knows more than I do about what is best for the team. It is also not always a good idea to be shaking things up when the team is playing so well. But since we have another day to go before a game this is a better discussion that some of the other things we could engage in.
I MUS WRITE
December 15th, 2009
2:22 pm
Mo is every bit as effective as Marvin so I say put him in with the starters and have Crawford,Teague,Marvin and ZAZA go to work on weaker benches.
Now that JSmith is out this is the right time to give Morris sum meaningful playing time.
Another thing i thought about is playing a froint court of Smoove,Horford,&Morris….. We could use his scoring on the blocks and Josh/Al could cover him if he’s having problems on D…..
I MUS WRITE
December 15th, 2009
2:24 pm
Fundamentals……you may be right -that boi needs to go see the wizard ASAP
theZaZaguy
December 15th, 2009
2:36 pm
I think the key is Marvin’s injury. If you’ve ever had a car in a bad accident, you’ll notice that things aren’t quite right and it makes weird noises. The parts haven’t quite broken in yet. It takes months for the car to run right even if the repair is done right.
An athelete may have healed completely, but it takes 6-12 months to “break-in” and get everything moving right. I think this is the case with Marvin. Give him another 2-3 months. He’s healed and in shape, but he’s not in form. I think you will find this to be the case come March.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
2:45 pm
Def agree ZaZaguy. Marvin will come along. I also like the idea of keeping Mo going as long as he’s producing. Tell Marvin his role coming back from illness will be to bring it off the bench Crawford style. If we had a 1-2 punch with Marvin & Crawford off the bench it’d be something. Mo will cool off, but I think he’s a better catch and shoot 5th option. Marvin and Crawford could punish some folks as a combo off the bench. I also like the idea of Smoove/Horford/Randmo. If they all play with energy they’d be a strong frontcourt for anyone. We just gotta get Randmo in the flow of Smoove & Horford’s help defense. They are a good tandem, but 3 on the block together could be an awesome rebounding machine. Eventually that’d be a good lineup w/ 2 quick guards hustling the perimeter.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
2:50 pm
I agree Marvin will be strong if he stays injury free come playoff time. Hopefully he’ll be hitting his stride like last year. It does take time. He’s still timid driving the lane. As good as Mo is playing I’d say work him back slow in the second unit till he’s 100%.
I’d love to see Randmo/Josh/Horford in the game at the same time. I’m not suggesting by no means to start them, but try it for an end of the quarter rally or something. If Randmo could work into Josh & Al’s help defense plan they’d be an awesome trio on the block. Randmo deserves minutes now whether Joe Smith is healthy or not. He’s played well. If we deny him minutes he’ll digress.
Should be a battle down low against Memphis with Gasol, Zebo & Thabeet.
terrell barron
December 15th, 2009
2:59 pm
This time last year, when I said Morris culd be effective with a little confidence everybody laughed and wanted him outta here on the next plane, and now the same people are wanting him to get more min? Whatever. lol! And when Mo’s shot stops falling, and he starts getting killed on the defensive end, by the likes of Pierce, Lebron, and Gay(wed), theyll be cryin or Marvin. lol!
Ken Sugiura
December 15th, 2009
3:22 pm
nice take, RLP. that makes sense. to me, at least. for what it’s worth, marivn will be in the starting lineup as long as he’s OK physically on Wednesday, according to Woodson.
Nunnya – got some of your questions answered. i’ll have it up hopefully by the end of the day. got some writin’ to do.
Ken Sugiura
December 15th, 2009
3:23 pm
excuse me for getting your handle wrong. it’s nunna.
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
4:00 pm
Ken – Thanks for checking the blogs to really see what we’re barking about. Thanks for your coverage of our team!
rms
December 15th, 2009
4:13 pm
Ken, should we really care about RandoMO at this point? He’s in the NBA, thats what he is supposed to do, right?
JOE GET THE HELL'ON JOHNSON!
December 15th, 2009
4:27 pm
YOUR 7 FEET TALL,YOU BETTER MAKE THE BEST OF YOUR 1 MINUTE!
JOE GET THE HELL'ON JOHNSON!
December 15th, 2009
4:30 pm
AND I THOUGHT THAT R.MORRIS WAS GOING TO BE BETTER THAN DWIGHT HOWARD COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL! I WAS SUPER DUMB!
Fundamentals
December 15th, 2009
4:30 pm
You two must’ve not watched how we got picked apart down low last year when Horford was hobbling. Every piece and every bit of progress is valuable insurance for our team! Every slot on our bench is critical!
bigdave
December 15th, 2009
5:55 pm
if the Heat were smart they’d put Wade on the block…
funny thing is some of you actually think he’s a leader…pff…haha…
http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2009/12/wades-silence-speaks-volumes.html
O'Brien
December 15th, 2009
6:44 pm
The main issue with Mo Evans being in the starting lineup is who would defend against the teams that have big SF’s? Although he seems built, Mo Evans is only 6′5 and does not have the height (in my opinion, he is better off as a backup SG).
And I dont want JJ having to guard the other team’s SF from the start, because that would tire him out. I think Marvin could be very effective coming off the bench (as mentioned, he would be our #2 option off the bench). But Mo’ Evans is not big enough to play SF consistently.
(If I’m the Hawks, I would hate to be paying Marvin over $7 mil to be a bench player. And knowing Woody, he will not make a change, no matter how inconsistent Marvin has been).
For the record, I have not been impressed with Marvin this year (even with his 15 rebound game).
Rufus1
December 15th, 2009
6:49 pm
MO Evans
Do We really want Mo(6′5) to have to defend 6′9 Rudy Gay, Lebron, Pierce and Turgolu consistently? I agree he is playing well, but does his value diminish because he come off the bench. Does it matter if he scores 15pts as a starter or a reserve? Isn’t it better for him to be the 2nd option as a reserve, rather than the 5 option as a starter. I AM NOT DEFENING MARVIN(6′9 240lbs), I AM DEFENDING THE LINE-UP. Marvin is the starter, because he is the best defensive and offensive option at the 3. We already have a slow PG and an undersized center…do we really want to get smaller? Would we have won more games if Mo was starting?
I THINK THE LINE-UP IS FINE, BEACUSE WE ARE WINING.
Astro Joe
December 15th, 2009
7:22 pm
No need to change the starting line-up during a winning streak. When Marvin returns, sticjk him back with the starters.
Sautee
December 15th, 2009
7:35 pm
O’Brien,
I was dumbfounded when she said that. I THINK that she has noticed Joe ignoring the frontcourt when he ISO’s, and bases some of her opinion on that, as she loves Josh and Horford. Plus, she has liked Bibby since the Arizona days.
At least she (unlike many women I know) doesn’t base who she likes on uniform color.
RLP,
about this: “You earn PT based on results.”
In THEORY, yeah, unless you are Joe Johnson. Woody NEVER seems to pull Joe for anything, regardless if he’s 5-21.
The Hater Eliminator
December 15th, 2009
9:10 pm
JOE GET THE HELL’ON JOHNSON!,
You are being delirious.
Joe J is a magnificent NBA player, and we really need him on this team.
And Randolph did a great job in these few games that the starters rested on the bench.
Whoever said that Mo should start over Marvin, I disagree on as well because Marvin is doing good with the starting position, but Mo Evans gets way to many fouls.
Lets go ATL HAWKS!!!
Lets do it the right way this season.
O'Brien
December 15th, 2009
9:38 pm
Watching NBA Coast to Coast on ESPN, they are drooling over the 20-4 Boston Celtics. I was thinking how ironic it is that we probably match up best with the Celtics.
And I think Scott Brooks and the Thunder have the potential to be like the Hawks from a few years ago. They’ve gone 20-62, followed by 23-59, and so far this year, they have gone 12-11. All they need now is one big free agent signing (like a JJ was for us) to take that next step (Kevin Durant is a beast, poor Blazers).
Ken Sugiura
December 15th, 2009
10:01 pm
rms and joe – obviously, if he’s getting paid as much as he is, Morris and every other NBA player should be playing as hard as possible whenever they’re on the floor. But, obviously, in the NBA, as well as your and my lines of work, i think we can safely say that that’s not the case.
I don’t think what I wrote is praising Morris for playing hard. (maybe it is; i’ll have to take a look at it) It’s just explaining why he’s playing better. but i’d have to say he’s to be credited for figuring it out. not everyone does.
RLP
December 15th, 2009
10:23 pm
The thing about the Celtics that strikes me is their won loss record on the road so far this season. They started the year out on the road against Cleveland and beat them. They are 12-1 on the road so far this year. Since we know how hard it has been for the Hawks to win on the road we should really appreciate the job they have done so far. There are only 10 ten teams in all of the NBA that have winning records on the road. I think the Celtics must be considered the best team in the East. Also remember that they won the title two years ago. Last year was a fluke for them because or the injury to KG. Just because we defeated them once in Boston this year I am not convinced that we should hope to draw them in the second round.
And because the Lakers are only playing their sixth road game of the year I do not think we really have a good read on how good they will be this year. Let’s wait until we have a little more information about how they fare on the road before we make a judgment on them this year even though the pickup of Ron Artest was a critical break for them. If I were a betting man right now I would have my money on these two teams.
Astro Joe
December 15th, 2009
10:36 pm
Sautee, how often does any head coach yank his leading scorer when they are having a bad game? If nothing else, they can serve as a decoy, since chances are, the opposing team will continue to focus their defensive efforts against that top scorer.
For all of the criticism of Joe, you would think that dude was an insufferable ball hog. When in reality, the team has had 5-6 players who score in double figures over most of his tenure with the Hawks. With a finite number of offensive possessions per game, that simply means that no one player is dominating the shot attempts like those teams that have only 3-4 guys putting up double-digit points. Sure, Joe sometimes feels the need to “be the man” at the expense of his team, but is there a number one scorer who doesn’t make that same mistake? Again, familiarity breeds contempt… we admire other team’s players because we are likely exposed to more highlights of those guys then anything else. Joe has made the All-Star team 3 consecutive years not because his style is appealing to fans but because coaches respect his overall game. And with our ensemble cast approach, it is doubtful any of our guys will ever have enough of the spotlight to garner a starting vote from the fans.
MannyT
December 15th, 2009
11:31 pm
Rufus1, Rufus1, Rufus1…you get it. I co-sign it!
Marvin’s primary job on this squad is to get in the way of the premiere SF talent in the NBA.
Astro, you get Woody ball. JJ & Woody are attached at the contractual hip. They are Siamese (financial) twins…even though JJ will get the better end of the $$$. Joe will not come out of any game that helps Woody seal another win. At least not this season.
I think the next 2 games will give us a good read on where this team is. Memphis is on the rise and Utah is always tough. I’ll enjoy seeing them live.
BWAF
Melvin
December 15th, 2009
11:52 pm
Rufus1, cosign your 6:49 post. Excellent summary of Marvin value to this team…
I MUS WRITE
December 16th, 2009
12:07 am
Terrell- Come on Man, Morris was stealing money last year just like Speedy- He didnt deserve minutes- welcome to the party,we all said he could be effective before training camp 08,but i imagine its hard to move let alone get minutes when ur playing with an extra thiry pounds.
There are’nt to many people that can stop Lebron Gay or pierce for a whole game so…….Mo will cool off but you act like Marvin has been setting the world on fire -I Believe he was averaging like 9pts 5rebs.Jus say’n ride the hot hand
Samuel
December 16th, 2009
12:28 am
Ken,
thanks for the “half-ass_d” piece on the Woody situation. I guess something is better than nothing. Woody and JJ are free agents and Rick Sund and the ASG are playing hardball huh?
I think it could backfire on all of us.
What if: ASG and Rick decides to let Woody walk. Memphis scoops him up.
JJ from Arkansas, right next door with plenty of cap space. Move OJ to PG.
OJ
JJ
Rudy Gay
Zac Randolph
Gasol
Atlanta hires Mark Jackson or Avery Johnson and the team totally comes apart, Memphis makes the playoffs and takes the eventual Champion Lakers to 7 games. HUUUMMMMM!!!!!
Woody=COY
terrell barron
December 16th, 2009
8:06 am
Imus, you’d be a little timid out there too if you were Randolph and you knew that if you made a mistake, offensively or defensively, that you’d get the stare down and then get pulled immediately. Woody installs no confidence in young players whatsoever.
terrell barron
December 16th, 2009
8:13 am
And Samuel, JJ to Memphis? Please! And the only GM dumb enough to hire Woody to coach a YOUNG TEAM that needs to RUN THE FLOOR would be Billy Knight. He’d be a horrible hire for Memphis. Just horrible! Maybe Detroit or San Antonio(post-Pop), but Memphis? I dont think so. And btw, give Avery or Jackson 6 years with this group, and we’d be a better team,imo. Teague would be much more developed by now also. Probably be starting over Bibby by now.
Daniel
December 16th, 2009
8:40 am
terrell- Teague would be more developed by now? What? We are 22 games into his first season. And over the last 3 games his minutes have gone up and his game is improving. You were kidding right? You do know he has only been in the league for this season?
O'Brien
December 16th, 2009
10:01 am
Samuel,
The Hawks are on pace for 60/61 wins. Assuming they win over 50 games, win a first round series, and are competitive in the second round, I see no reason why the ASG would not give Woody an extension at the end of the playoffs.
In your scenario, you asked what happens if the ASG and Sund let Woody walk. I could ask what happens if the Hawks get swept in the second round?
All Woody has to do is keep winning, and his contract extension will come.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2009
10:49 am
terrell barron
The Marvin vs. Rudy Gay matchup is a no brainer. I will be willing to bet you anything that it ends up being the Joe vs. Rudy Gay matchup. Anytime we play a premier forward, Joe ends up checking them anyway. I am personally in favor of starting Mo Evans, and bringing Marvin off the bench. The funny thing to me is the people that say he will all of a sudden become this great scoring threat if he comes off the bench. Guess what. He is not better than most of the guys coming off the bench for most teams anyway. He is not a great offensive or defensive player, and is basically a standstill jump shooter. His greatest asset he brings to this Hawks team is rebounding. Any of those great 3’s such as Granger, Pierce, Melo, Gay…. Joe will end up defending them in crunch time. Remember how a lot of you argued with me and told me Marvin was our best man to man defender (LOL). Oh, I know, lets give hime a couple more years to develop. He is still young. He is still recovering from his injury. Woodson takes him out when he gets hot. We will need him in the playoffs…..LOL. You guys kill me. So if he comes off the bench, he will be able to dribble better. Will he be able to drive without falling or getting his shot blocked? Will he be able to hit a wide open (no one guards him) shot better? Will he become more aggresive when someone actually guards him? Will he hustle more? Will he actually try to stop someone from scoring at the rim? Will he be able to post up smaller players and score consistently? What has he ever done in the playoffs? Last year nothing. The year before nothing. Chills was the X factor not Marvin. As I continue to tell you guys, please don’t hold your breath waiting on Marvin. I wish no harm to any of you.
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2009
11:43 am
TERRELL BARRON-See, there you go again. Your 8:13am post totally said everything I wanted to say, and you did a much better job than I probably would have done as well. I believe having either AJohnson or MJackson as our HC over the last 5yrs+ would have allowed us to resolved our still existing PG situation, since both excelled at the position. Woodson was strickly a perimeter oriented player during his playing career and he seems to want his team to reflect that.
Both Avery and Mark were PG’s that understood the advantages of penetrating and playing inside out basketball, which I believe they would have this team reflect. Avery got Dallas, a team that played little DEF and was almost totally perimeter oriented and considered extremely soft, to the NBA finals by making them play DEF and become more physical and aggressive. Imagine what he could have done, or could do, with a far quicker, faster, more physical and athletic team like ours.
I guarantee you, with either as our HC, either CPaul or DWilliams would be our starting PG, or ALaw would have been developed into a solid PG.
RUFUS1-Bravo, not much can be added to your comments.
I mentioned on the previous blog how obvious it was that Sund has a much higher expectation for this team, based on his accessment of its talent and ability, than Woodys supporters seem to have. It should be just as obvious he’s looking for more than just annual increases in wins and playoff appearances. What he’s looking for from Woodson will take the entire season to evaluate, because it’s already obvious this team will finish the season with a winning record and make the playoffs.
Woodson has already demonstrated he can coach and direct a winning team and make the playoffs annually. What Sund wants to know is can he get our young players to continue developing, because the improvement of this team at this point will be determined by it’s continued ORGANIC GROWTH, not continued FA acquisitions. He wants to know if this team is growing and improving primarily because of Woodson or inspite of him. There’s absolutely no doubt Woodson has had a positive impact and influence on the overall development of the Hawks, but to what extent, and is he capable of doing more at this juncture.
We all know he made a concerted effort to make JJ an Allstar, but how long have we been expecting and predicting Smoove would reach that level? What about Marvins obvious OFF regression, although he’s definitely made drastic improvements defensively. And what has Woodson noticably done, particularly when it comes to adjusting the OFF over the last 5yrs, to accomodate Smoove’s improvement in certain areas, that would get him to the Allstar level?
If Woodson continues to coach and push this team for the rest of the season the way he’s done the last 4gms, he’ll get everything he wants and everyone will end up being happy in the end, especially me. I’m about the team, not the HC, unless the HC is hindering the team.
GOOD LUCK TONIGHT MY HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I MUS WRITE
December 16th, 2009
11:49 am
Samuel- Thats a lot of what if’s my friend, That line up would’nt be as good as you think-CHEMISTRY. Mayo,Gay,Zbo are all 20 point scorers who need the ball in their hands to maximize their game. JJ taking shots away from the yungnz and doing his ISO Ball poundidng thing would be a problem. U see what happened to AI….
Whass up Rod-u make some intresting points- Marvin has had 4 years to grow up and become a player and he is mediocre at best,I had no expectations for him coming into the season. Hit a few jumpers,rebound and try to slow his man down some. This guy will never be a go to guy -EVA…Going back to last year I wanted Mo starting then. If Marvin came off the bench right now he would be a 2nd or 3rd option blending in like the chamellion that he is
Sautee
December 16th, 2009
12:01 pm
Astro Joe,
Somehow, you seemingly thought my target was JJ. It was not. I responded to RLP’s notion of “earning PT by results” and thought it was way too broad. Joe was my example, but not the target I was aiming for. Your post verifies this. Not all players need to “earn” playing time (though I agree with RLP’s larger point that we’d have a better league if it were so).
The example of Joe remaining on the court in a poor shooting game was my caveat to the statement being overly broad. But there was no hidden anti-JJ agenda here. I think Joe has, for the most part, toned down the pounding and shared the ball better than any previous year, and it’s no coincidence that our W-L record reflects that.
Samuel,
I thought you were a Hawks fan. What’s all this Memphis BS?
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2009
12:20 pm
Ken Strickland,
“What about Marvins obvious OFF regression, although he’s definitely made drastic improvements defensively.”
May I please ask what drastic improvements you are referring to? Maybe you are speaking about from the time he came into the league to now? I hope so. I would not call it drastic. Nothing about his game has been drastic except maybe 3 point shooting.
Daniel
December 16th, 2009
12:40 pm
Ken- I can’t believe that you actually think that Mark Jackson or Avery Johnson would already have Deron Williams or Chris Paul. Last time I checked both were doing TV and neither is a GM. But, if you have the ability to see the future (an alternate time streams) could you please let us know where we should be investing our money?!
I usually don’t share your opinions Ken, but I do in general respect it. That statement, however, may be the least valuable point you have ever made.
Heck, I’ll go so far as to say that if the Hawks would have drafted Jordan, traded for Pippen and had Phil Jackson as their coach, we would have already won 6 championships in the 90’s.
O'Brien
December 16th, 2009
12:52 pm
Daniel,
To piggy back on what Ken might be thinking, Avery and Jackson are former PG’s, and they were not known for their size and shooting, so he is speculating that they would not have shared the same opinion that Woody had about Paul and DWill.
If I’m not mistaken, Woody implied that Paul was too short (I dont remember why he didnt like DWill). Sure, other GM’s had Marvin ranked one or two on their boards, but how many of those GM’s needed a PG the way the Hawks did? That being said, you’re right. We can’t change the past, and we can’t predict the future.
Rod,
I think Marvin’s defense has improved. It’s not great, but he defends his position well, something which is hard to quantify.
However, in crunch time, it is JJ (sometimes even Josh) that ends up on the premier SF. And with Crawford now on board, Marvin might not even be in the game (which also facilitates JJ playing SF).
Overall, I have been very disappointed with Marvin. As a senior in High School, he averaged 28.7 pts, 15.5 rebs, and 5 blocks per game. What has happened to all that promise/potential? This is his 5th season, and he is still talking about trying to be agrressive.
Rufus1
December 16th, 2009
1:34 pm
Amazing
It is amazing how people seem to forget this is the 1st year Josh Smith is starting to live up to his potential(6 Years) and how bad he looked last year at times(1st year of his NEW CONTRACT). Yes, Josh was more aggressive than Marvin in year 5(Taking 3’s, arguing with refs, missing free throws, turning over the ball, running his own offense, and getting benched by the coach). Then something happen in his 6Th year…maturity. Something I never thought he would get under Woody, but I was wrong. He is a better decision maker, under more control and has finally figured out what his strengths are….But it took 6 years under Woody.
I am not saying that in year 6 Marvin is going to turn into an All-star, but I am at least going to give the same amount of time in Woody’s system, I gave Josh.
PS..Don’t forget how frustrated alot of you guys were with Josh last year.(except the Josh lovers)
PS JOSH LOVER..Please out all of the drastic improvements Josh made from year 4 to 5……………….I will be waiting.
terrell barron
December 16th, 2009
2:20 pm
Preach Rufus, preach!
Big Ump
December 16th, 2009
2:38 pm
Grandad
On your post at 12:00 am you talked about bloggers being critical of players. That’s true with other bloggers including you. But I challenge you you to find anything I ever said abot a player since I been posting.. I wasn’t going to address this, but I know If I pass then you probably add something else I had never said before.
Grandad I’m always a team man not like others claim to be.So when you accuse someone,please make sure you have your facts right. Also you said you call’em like you see it, it look like you call what you thought you saw or what you want to see. Granddad have a good and holidays.
Big Ump
December 16th, 2009
2:43 pm
Daniel that was funny. But you so right.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2009
3:03 pm
Rufus1,
Josh and Marvin can not be compared. Even when Josh was making dumb decisions, he always played with maximum energy and effort. From the day Josh walked on the floor for the Hawks, the Hawks fate in most games was dependent on whether he or Joe Johnson had good games or not. Marvin has never really figured much into the overall outcome of games for us. Marvin was drafted to be the superstar, not Josh. Josh has always been the first or second option on this team based on production, hard work and defensive ability besides his rookie year. This myth about how much better his is this year is just that, a myth. He is shooting a higher percentage from the field, due mostly to not taking three pointers, but he had a better year in 07-08 in almost every category except FG% and 3 point%. Josh came right out of high school and Marvin played a year of college at the most prestigious basketball college in the nation. There is no comparison, and I made this same point two years ago when Josh was trying to get a new contract. I wonder where all those Marvin is and will be a better overall pro than Josh people are now?
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2009
3:11 pm
Rufus1,
Another thing. Josh has stepped his game up in the playoffs every year that we have been in the playoffs. What has Marvin done? You can keep waiting, if that is what you want to do. That ship has long sailed for me. With an above average 3 who can handle the rock defend 2 positions (2,and 3 Marvin can’t) and be a offensive threat, we could compete for a title this year. Who knows what the future holds. Plug Danny Granger, Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza, Rudy Gay, or Stephen Jackson in our lineup instead of Marvin, and tell me we would not be a much better team.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2009
3:46 pm
Wow. Some of the stuff I just read on here about Woody is just mind-blowing. I read this in Ken’s article:
“It’s been a good situation for Woody as ownership and the organization stood by him and supported him in the rebuilding years,” Sund said. “When I suggested a new contract for Woody, the owners embraced the recommendation and I told Woody’s camp that after two years, we’ll evaluate it at that time and it seems to be working well.”
Uh-huh. Sounds to me like Woody “his camp” KNEW when he signed the contract that it was a 2 YEAR CONTRACT, and that they had been TOLD that an evaluation would take place AFTER 2 YEARS. Unless of course you’re going to call Sund a liar and say that he never told them that. Right…so moving along, what’s the big deal?
I find it highly ironic that Woody has survived the turmoil of a young team on the rebuild, where others have not, and all you hear from his true blue supporters is how badly he’s been treated. I wonder if Woody (or perhaps his ragtag myopic bandwagon) feels as bad as Eric Musselman, Marc Iavaroni, Reggie Theus, Mo Cheeks, and others? They didn’t make it. Woody has.
How about guys like Lawrence Frank, who one day had two or three all-star caliber players, then the next day…had NONE (sorry, brook Lopez will be an all-star some day, but neither he nor Devin Harris is there THIS year).
Unlike Woody, Frank didn’t survive the mistakes of his boss.
Like Sund said, the ASG stuck with this guy. And when Sund came in as the new boss, he even thought Woody should stick around for a couple of years at least.
But in the midst of all of this, one teensy weensy fact is forgotten: Woody was a free agent when he signed that 2 year contract.
Why didn’t he walk THEN? I mean, why not decline the “insulting offer to stay on another 2 years.” Never knew a job offer to stay was an insult. I guess all the 4 and 5 year offers he was getting from all those other NBA teams just weren’t as attractive….
Maybe, just maybe Woody wants a chance to finish what he started. Maybe he has more honor and sense than those who would put him on a pedestal above the rest of the organization. Maybe he sees how it is for coaches around the league, and realizes that he is now the one with the most tenure in the eastern conference (after Lawrence Frank got fired), and doesn’t want to mess that up. Maybe he knows he has work to do and games to win. Maybe “you’re doing a good job, but let’s wait until the end of the season to talk about an extension LIKE WE DISCUSSED EARLIER” sounds better than “you’re fired.”
Most of us cannot forsee Woody NOT getting an extension at the end of the season unless a total meltdown that doesn’t involve injuries occurs. And I doubt any of us see that one coming. He’ll be fine. He’ll get his contract. Most likely at the time that was previously agreed upon. And make no mistake. It WAS an agreement. Sund offered, Woody signed. It’s really that simple.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2009
4:00 pm
Woodson, in his sixth season and the most tenured coach in the Eastern Conference, is not alone in his situation. Denver coach George Karl and Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson are also in the final years of their contracts, though Karl and the Nuggets have had discussions of an extension and Jackson would surely have far more security than Woodson.
Ok, in some ways, Woody doesn’t even belong in the same conversation as Jackson and Karl. Now before the Woody-ites have a complete conniption fit, let me explain.
1) Those two guys have been head coaches a lot longer than Woody has. He hasn’t yet had the chance to even BE a head coach that long. Which means, he is not as proven a commodity as they are.
2) Woody has not had veteran or veteran-laden teams as a head coach. This year is the first year he’s had the most veterans (useful ones, that is), so in a way, this also contributes to him being a bit of an unknown. Can he repeat what he did last year, or can he do better? If he can repeat it, then you know he can be consistent. If he and the team can do better, then you know he’s somebody to hold onto.
3) Much noise is made about this team getting better every year he’s been coaching here. It’s true. But you don’t hang onto a guy for an extended period of time just because his team has gone from losing less and less each year, but losing all the same. If that’s the case, then a guy who gets you one or two more wins each year should always keep his job….even if his team is so bad that they win only 13 games the first year, and improve on that by 2 wins each year after that. 10 years later, and your team has gone from winning 13 games to winning 33 games. Improvement? Sure. Of course, if that’s the best you can do in 10 years, then chances are, your GM sucks…but who bombs out on lottery picks year after year? Nevermind.
4) Karl and Jackson have had teams in the playoffs consistently…for years. Woody has not. Again, this is not fair to say Woody’s situation is comparable to theirs. Jackson has won multiple championship rings with two different teams, and is better at managing player egos than perhaps anybody in the League. Karl is not as highly regarded, but is very successful in his own right, and again…he’s an established product.
Woody hasn’t had the chance to get there yet. But he’s working on that right now. At least he was given a chance to prove that he can win consistently (remember, he’s only got one winning season under his belt as a head coach). Others never got that chance, despite what their GMs (and/or owners) were doing to screw the team up.
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2009
4:02 pm
OBRIEN-you had to be reading my mind because that’s precisely what I had in mind. Both players would also know the value of judging a player(PG)based on his strengths, rather than judging and penalizing him based on alledged shortcomings. Both former players overcame things they didn’t do well to have successful careers.
MJackson wasn’t the prototypically quick, fast, jumpshooting PG. However, he was allowed to use his size, strength, passing ability and high BB IQ to take advantage of smaller PG’s by backing them down in the post and forcing double teams or scoring over them. In fact, the NBA actually changed/modified the rules for backing a player down because of him.
AJohnson never was a strong outside scorer, but he was quick, fast, DEF minded, and like MJackson, he was an excellent passer and QB that had a very high BB IQ. It was admitted by both TDuncan and HC POP that Avery was the reason they won the NBA title that yr. With the Hawks problematic PG situation at the time, there’s absolutely no way either of them would’ve passed on the opportunity of drafting either CPaul or DWilliams, and certainly wouldn’t have publically made an issue of CPauls lack of size or DWilliams bulkiness, as Woodson did.
I also think both would have done a much better job of incorporating the talents of SStaudemire into the OFF as well, and maybe even BDiaw. But that’s water over the bridge. We have to deal with what we have, and what we have is far too much talent for our key players to be overutilized, and our bench players to be underutilized or ignored.
This yrs Atlanta Hawks team is only a few adjustments and a committment away from ruling the Eastern conference and becoming one of the NBA’s truely elite teams, and that’s with Woodson as the HC.
SAMUEL-Marvin was definitely a DEF liability his first few yrs, much like Bibby is now. However, you’re too blinded by your personal issues with him to realize that he’s remained a starter, despite his OFF woes, because of his DEF. He has the ability to effectively guard perimeter players out front and inside players in the paint, which makes him a perfect defender for Woody’s switching DEF.
You, and certain others, keep making an issue of his lack of scoring on a team that’s scoring at a near franchise record pace, and whos biggest problem is DEF inconsistency. Woodson knows that, which is why he values Marvin’s DEF consistency and rebounding. His scoring potential will always be there if needed. As long as Bibby is our starting PG and playing significant mins, his DEF will always be highly valued by Woodson, and rightfully so.
When it comes to someone you like, you seem to be blinded to anything but the positive things you want to focus on. If it’s someone you don’t like, you become blinded to anything but the negative things you want to focus on. YOU SEEM TO LACK OBJECTIVITY.
terrell barron
December 16th, 2009
5:06 pm
“Marvin was drafted to be the superstar, not Josh”? Wtf does that supposed to mean? When it comes to NBA players, draft status means NOTHING. You cant blame Marvin for going #2 overall. Is Bogut a superstar? No! Is Bargnani a superstar? No! It’s a crapshoot man. Btw, last time I checked, the best player in the league went #13 to Charlotte and then got traded. So I guess he falls in Smoove’s category huh? Not drafted to be a superstar? Whatever. If you wanna blame somebody BLAME WOODSON, not Marvin! Remember, Paul was too short, and Deron was too fat.
terrell barron
December 16th, 2009
5:09 pm
Rod, let me ask you something: Was Sheldon drafted to be a superstar?
Rufus1
December 16th, 2009
5:44 pm
Terrell
I agree, if Josh wasn’t drafted to be a star..then what was he drafted to be?
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2009
7:03 pm
BIG RAY-you made some excellent points, as always. It’s a credit to the ASG that they didn’t make Woodson the scapegoat for any of the teams issues. In fact, when he and former GM Billy Knight reached an impass on what this team needed and how it was to be handled, they sided with Woodson.
It was no secret BK wanted to play an uptempo, fastbreaking style of ball and wanted a young, quick, fast, penetrating PG to make it happen. Woodson on the other hand, wanted a much slower pace and a veteran PG that was more of a perimeter scorer than penetrator. That’s why he rode the backs of vet PG’s like AJohnson and TLue while all but ignoring young potential PG’s like SStaudemire, ALaw, DWilliams and CPaul. I honestly believe that BK’s acquisition of PG MBibby, and his overall impact on the team making the playoffs, tended to support Woodson’s position and caused the ASG to force BK out.