Coming up on Game 23
Hey, folks-
Hope all are well. A few things:
While some interesting things were said on the topic, I am going to completely not venture an opinion on the European players thing.
KevinA – thanks for the number crunching (the Hawks are 8-0 when they hit 22 or more assists and 10-1 when JJ has five or more assists) . I think this obviously says plenty about what makes them go. It’’s something that the players and Mike Woodson recognize, that they play their best when they’re unselfish and when they get out and run. Al Horford says this a lot.
This isn’t exactly the most insightful observation you’re about to read, but this obviously happens most when they’re defending and rebounding to start their transition game. It’s trite, but they have to defend well to win.
One thing I’ll say about Jeff Teague – even when he wasn’t playing much, he wasn’t having too much trouble getting to the basket. But he had a pretty low percentage on his drives. It seemed like 1 out of 4 shots in the paint was going in and the rest either bounced off the rim or were rejected.
I asked Jamal Crawford about this, and he said Teague had to figure out the angles he was taking to the basket and so forth. So maybe he’s figured out something. I think it might be a little premature to say he’s ready for a steady diet of minutes – I’d feel differently if he’d gone for 19 points, 15 assists, four steals with just three turnovers against, say, Miami and Milwaukee and not Chicago and Toronto and, too, I don’t know if the NBA is similar to baseball and the NFL where a rookie can have success out of the box but then the “book” gets out on him and he plateaus – but he may well have turned some sort of corner. He would make the second unit, and in turn the team, so much more dangerous.
Anyway, Joe Smith will not be playing again Sunday. Wednesday against Memphis might be the day.
Things I’ll be watching against the Nets:
1) How is Brook Lopez defended?
2) How are the minutes apportioned with the second unit?
3) Can Teague keep up his excellent run?
4) Can the Hawks play even better than they have the past two games?
Apropos of nothing, but Charlotte is in the No. 8 spot in the East right now. and Miami is just one game over .500 (11-10).
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245 comments Add your comment
KevinA
December 13th, 2009
8:44 pm
By the way OKA tied with Clev 62-62 wouldn’t it be fun to see the kids beat Clev.
JeJe
December 13th, 2009
9:00 pm
Are we not getting a game story tonight?
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
December 13th, 2009
9:11 pm
whooo hooo! It feels good after a tough Falcon’s loss to look at the standings and see ATL tied for first in the southeast division with Miami at 11-11 a distant second! Jeff Teague producing in 24 minutes of play is equally impressive.
Go Hawks.
O'Brien
December 13th, 2009
9:12 pm
Rudy Gay is a beast. I must say, that watching him at UConn, I did not think he would be as good as he has turned out to be. And we complain about Marvin, but imagine how the Blazers feel? They could have taken Durant, but went with Oden instead.
That being said, Mo Evans is a bench player who is starting, and he is aggressive from the start. Marvin, has been a starter for years, and is still talking about how he needs to be more aggressive. Unacceptable.
Great win tonight though. Last year, we didnt have as many blowout wins, so our bench players didnt get a lot of minutes from these kind of games. It has helped our starters, and it is helping our bench get some PT and some confidence. And Woody is giving them a chance.
Great job tonight, Hawks and Woody.
Blast
December 13th, 2009
9:15 pm
Go Hawks, Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KevinA
December 13th, 2009
9:20 pm
JeJe,
Like to here your story of missed assunptions on this game. I predicted 20 pt win
kirkinga
December 13th, 2009
9:40 pm
Happiness is winning and 156 comments without a “Wire Woody” in sight,..and some say there’s been no progress over last season!
Go Hawks!!
Alien in ATL
December 13th, 2009
10:15 pm
Isn’t it funny how all those so called Hawks fans and “fire Woody” fans are only on the blog at the start of the game and as long as the game is still in balance, but disappear once the Hawks are putting the game away? Pitiful, no? They can’t even stay on and agree to the fact that they are wrong!! Thank you Hawks for shutting up those sarcastic fans you only hear when they can say something negative!! Live and this blog will be sooo beautiful without them!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAWKS!!!
Alien in ATL
December 13th, 2009
10:17 pm
LOL @ kirkinga! Totally agree!!
bigdave
December 13th, 2009
10:52 pm
Sam from Swats…
only if he steps up his defense and rebounds the ball… we have all the offense we need… yea Rudy is a better talent, but Marvin is starting to be reliable in the sense of playing his role. hey, he can’t help when he was drafted…
still early though… but i get just as frustrated with him…
bigdave
December 13th, 2009
10:52 pm
but no… doubt Marvin goes for 40… ever…
bigdave
December 13th, 2009
10:53 pm
but in the event he does… promise the blog you buy a fresh…crispy… Atlanta Hawk # 24
Ken Strickland
December 13th, 2009
11:15 pm
JEJE-You were probably too busy looking for excuses to notice Lopez got most of his points in garbage time and/or when Horford wasn’t in the gm. When both were on the court and going head to head, Horford kicked his taller, bigger butt. You have to be able to see the forest among all of those trees for it to register.
D.CARTER-your comment is one of the issues I have with Woodson. He seems to operate on the principle that if a player doesn’t give him exactly what he wants from him, whatever that is, he will disregard everything else and treat him as if he’s useless. The intelligent thing for any HC to do in situations like this is to focus on what the player does well and see how it can be utilized to benefit the team. Of course that only applies to certain players, otherwise Bibby would be anchored to the bench as well.
Overall, I have to echo CP and his assessment of it being a good gm overall and EVERYONE on the bench and on the court contributed.
Rufus1
December 13th, 2009
11:21 pm
I give the team A-
I give the coach B+
KevinA
December 14th, 2009
12:43 am
Ken,
I think you are being overlly critical. When we get into tougher teams and if Woody goes back to the old Woody ball I will chip in.
This game could have not gone better. We have gone 4 games of non “Woody ball”
Ken Strickland
December 14th, 2009
1:00 am
KEVINA-How am I being overly critical, or even critical? I was just cosigning on a comment made by D.CARTER and offering an explanation. Did you miss the last sentence where I gave credit to everyone that participated on the bench and on the floor for a gm well played?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 14th, 2009
1:58 am
O’Brien, co-sign on Rudy Gay… he may have the worst-selling jersey in the league, but he’s much, much better than I thought he’d be coming out of college too. We Hawks fans complain about the Marvin pick, but at least Marvin is a decent rotation player. Picking Shelden Williams over Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy was a much worse evaluation of talent.
The Grinch
December 14th, 2009
2:20 am
Woody seems to have improved as a coach, and if he can keep it up over the whole season I might just leave the “Fire Woody” camp. I have nothing against the man personally, and will be happy if he continues to improve and succeed. So far this season I give him a solid B (a damn sight ahead of the last few seasons).
It’s a good year to be a Hawks fan; this is the best team they’ve put together in a long time. I said at the beginning of the season they’d be good enough for 50 and a 3 seed despite Woody. With Woody actually using his bench and dropping the ISO Joe, 55-60 and a 2 isn’t out of the question (knock on wood, pardon the pun). I give the team an A-minus so far.
I hope y’all jumped on the over/under 44 wins at the beginning of the season; easiest money we’ll ever make (and I said so at the time). Maybe we’ll finally get some recognition.
The Grinch
December 14th, 2009
2:24 am
No love for “the Landlord?” How dare you question Billy Knight! Josh Smith and Al Horford were a perfectly good net out of ten straight seasons picking in the top 10.
The Grinch
December 14th, 2009
2:28 am
He was like a blindfolded Mexican kid swinging at a pinata, only arrogant, is what I meant to say.
South ga boy in the atl
December 14th, 2009
2:42 am
Say Najeh, don’t think I saw any commentary on period of time on todays game when we had 4 guards on the floor plus Al. Ihax to look twice to make sure I was seeing Joe, bibby, Teague, and Jamal out there at the same time. I think Woody is using some of these easier games to really experiment with some different things
Say Najeh I had to look twice today to make sure I was looking at the tv correctly when I saw 4 guards on the floor today with Al. Joe, Bibby, Jamal, and Teague can really push the ball or drive and kick for jams or 3 pointers. I know all the criticism of Woody for being to stubborn, unwilling to play anyone except vets, and his unimaginitive offense. However there they were today: 4 guards on the floor atthe same time. I find it very refreshing, of course I have been a Woody supporter all along, but I was wondering what you thought of this new Woody and doesn’t he get credit for trying new things on offense and giving significant time to Teague. Whatta ya think of the new woody
Crashing the Glass
December 14th, 2009
4:06 am
Is Josh Smith the Hawks best player?
http://crashingtheglass.com/2009/460/mythbusters-atlanta-hawks
Big Ray
December 14th, 2009
7:30 am
I love it when this team stomps on an inferior ballclub. How far have we come with this?
The noise made about Woody is just too funny. How can you NOT give the head coach credit when the team is doing this well? And obviously he’s not killing his young point guard. He likes the kid, and the kid is listening to him and performing. It’s all good. What’s to complain about?
Yes, Woody gets kudos for making good decisions and having his guys ready to play. But funny how giving credit to the players for doing what they do is construed by some people as NOT giving Woody enough credit. What’s next, we give him credit for every point scored, rebound grabbed, shot blocked, ball stolen, assist dished out? Give me a break, people. Do try to be somewhat realistic.
Coach and team BOTH get credit. You get the feeling that there are Hawks fans, and then there is fans of a certain player, or a certain coach. Somebody please start a blog for the Atlanta JJs, the Atlanta Woodys, Atlanta Jamals, or whatever…
Meanwhile, what happened with our “fake” center? Seems to me that Brook Lopez had to stay in the game 11 minutes longer in order to “outperform” Horford 19 points/12 rebounds to 16 points/9 rebounds. When both were in the game, I didn’t see where the bigger Lopez was doing better. In fact, he simply wasn’t. Horford held his own. I’m not surprised.
Joe Johnson had a great game. I really liked the 10 assists. I like to see the full spectrum of Joe’s game, rather than watch him try or be forced to play the one-dimensional role of top dog scorer. He’s still top scorer, but I love to see him also be something he has a natural affinity for: playmaker. Is he the best playmaker? No, but he’s a damn good one.
I remember people talking about Mo Evans being absolute trash. Still think that? The guy has raised his game despite receiving far fewer minutes than he did last season. And he really blew up last night when he got a chance to start.
Ok, now cue all the responses of “yeah, but it was just the Nets..”
On another note, the Grizz are for real. We’re better than them, but they have been jelling and really competing. Don’t expect an absolute cake walk on Wednesday.
Big Ray
December 14th, 2009
7:38 am
By the way, that “Crashing the Glass” site? Good stuff. It’s a great article on busting myths surrounding the Atlanta Hawks.
Really good stuff on Woody, great endorsements of him. You don’t want to miss this. Good reading?
Big Ray
December 14th, 2009
7:38 am
VERY good reading!
vava74
December 14th, 2009
7:50 am
We must absolutely win the next two games and, sincerely, I really believe that if we do this we reach the Cleveland games with such a momentum that we can win back to back.
My fear is that if we lay an egg against Memphis (dangerous young team) or are out coached by Sloan/out hustled by the Jazz, the team will start another period of unbalanced performances and under perform against the Lebronettes…
Big Ray
December 14th, 2009
7:59 am
Vava ,
Excellent point. I think you have it pegged.
Fundamentals
December 14th, 2009
8:02 am
Definitely signs of a solid team in the making. Memphis and Utah will be a good challenge to see if we have fool’s gold or not. I think we’ll do fine. Good to see a few quality outings without let-down from any of our players. Good to see folks are coming around on Morris. Check the blog. I’ve been calling for him all year. Good job Randmo.
I’ve been a bit tough on Collins. He looked a little better yesterday. Seemed to get to the spots a bit better and he did hit a nice jumper. I’ll never relent that he needs to get into game shape, but Hopefully he’ll continue to see minutes and give us a HUGE instead of a big to send in on Shaq, Big Z, Dwight and Bynum. That’s really the only reason we signed him.
Props to the boys for another great game. Wed can’t come soon enough!
nunna yo biznezz
December 14th, 2009
8:14 am
BIG RAY,
TOP OF THE MORNING TO YA!!
i am one of woody’s biggest critics and said this team would be 3-7 over this 10 game stretch.
i based that on his 7-8 man rotation,and the starters playing 35-40+ minutes a game..
and i repeatedly stated that using his bench and increasing their playing time and playing teague now instead of later when he may be needed would benefit the team in the long run and help us in the playoffs..
and it is finally happening..but,it happened for a reason..not because woody included this in his plan,but because of a blessing in disguise..
the ankle injury to bibby..
that gave teague more playing time and woody some forced confidence in this guy..and that spreaded to others on the bench getting increased floor “burn” as others on this blog call it..
with teague getting increased playing time:
A.it allowed the 2nd unit to have a full 5 man bench rotation..
B.it allowed the starters to get rest and play with energy as well as play with some of the bench players and get accustomed to each other..
C.it allowed us all to see what most have believed,RANDMO has skills that should allow woody to go with a big center who could make a difference when needed..
And D.,it allowed us to become now more of a force and a threat to the NBA..
we know what we have coming off the bench with crawford,and with evans,zsa zsa,teague,joe smith or even with Randmo,we have a 2nd team that can keep up the scoring if not score more,and keep us fully into the game and pick up any slack that the starters may have..
so,if my 3-7 goes from that to a 10-0 ten game stretch,then i could not be more happier.
if woody keeps this team going and playing like they are now and even in the playoffs,and, not go back into a 7-8 man rotation once we play the elite teams and bibbs gets better ,then woody would deserve to be retained as the HC of this team..
my only worry is just that..once we play the teams who are the elite of this league,and bibbs feels better then we’ll see the old woody ball come back..
this is what i’ve been and others have stressed all season long this year..
now,if he would have started this 10 man rotation a lot earlier in the season we probably would have had a better record(even though 17-6 is not bad)than we do now..
but,overall,we will be better over the next 23 games..and i think we’ll be better than 17-6 over the next 23 games..
we shall see..
Clyde
December 14th, 2009
8:27 am
Sean Williams had 3 blocks in 8 minutes. New Jersey could have stayed in the game with his defense if he would have gotten more PT. Can the coach see only playing him single digit minutes = a loss?
Samuel
December 14th, 2009
8:32 am
Doc,
I hear you. Let’s say the Hawks do finish in the top 3 but lose in the second round again. To me, that still should be enough for an extension. Sund will have a tough decision to make no doubt. What if he lets Woody go and Woody goes elsewhere (Memphis, Chicago, NO) and turns them around. Sund then hires whoever and we go backwards. In my opinion that should get him fired.
It’s easy to say we “should” be in the top two or three teams in the league but is he willing to stake his job on it?
Woody=COY
Daniel
December 14th, 2009
8:36 am
OK, guys great win. I don’t care that it was just the Nets, it is tough to blow out teams in the NBA and the Hawks are doing it on a semi regular basis.
I will try to look it up, but someone (Nire?) probably has already crunched these numbers. I wonder what the blowout (15>) wins vs. losses is the year compared to last? I think this is a truer sign of the Hawks moving into elite status, than anything else.
So, how is everyone going to spin this? Teague is getting more consistent minutes (HMMM about 20 games into the season, like someone suggested). Yes, the Bibby injury has spurred that to some extent, but Bibby can play, but Woody is electing to rest him. He is not forced to do that. But, I am sure some how this will be turned into an “I told you so” “if Woody would’ve only listened sooner” type thing that noting what it really is. The rookie has been brought along at a reasonable pace to not overexpose him and as Crawford and Joe have developed a comfort level. Teague gets more time.
Oh yeah, Joe is such a ball hogging egomaniac!!! Really, where? when?
Once last thing, to someone who I won’t mention by name, but tends to write in all CAPS and posts under others names. How did that nasty, unstopable Nets team do? I am sure you don’t have the class to admit you were wrong, but who knows maybe you will suprise me.
Daniel
December 14th, 2009
8:40 am
Samuel- For me, it will be more about how the team plays in the playoffs. Not all second round losses are created equal in my book. If we play a tough series going 6-7 games and lose then we definitely need to extend. If the team folds like a tent….. well… it makes the decision tougher.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2009
8:44 am
I liked the post from the guy who said (I’m paraphrasing), “if you predicted the Hawks would win around 50 games, then you predicted they would lose around 30 games, so why act shocked when they lose. We don’t play the Celtics, Lakers, Magic & Cavs 25-30 times”. BRILLIANT!
Was that Sean Williams who was being posterized by RandMo? Hilarious. RandMo looks great against back of the bench defenders. Kudos to him for working hard to improve his game.
Also, Bibby looked like he had his legs back yesterday.
Lastly, Mo started for the Hawks during one of those stretches when the Hawks had like 6-8 consecutive home games late in the season. He is definitely balling this season, but his record as a starter is puffed up because he has started more home games than road games.
Fundamentals
December 14th, 2009
9:10 am
Gotta give props to Mo for showing what a veteran does when he gets his break. The guy went from doghouse to team MVP in a matter of minutes.
Could just be the wins, but everyone seems more relaxed and more confident in their roles. Each and every player has filled their niche during the past few games.
I don’t remember a time when we consistently blew people out of the gym on a regular basis. Nets or not, this is nice stuff. If we roll till Christmas the big 3 talk may have a few name changes at the national level.
newkid
December 14th, 2009
9:17 am
Good to win those we’re expected to win. Mo’s energy and offensive efficiency with the 1st unit stood out. Doesn’t need to occupy the ball more than a second or two on the offensive end to be productive. Imagine, on a nightly basis, having a 3 on the floor who consistently hits the catch-n-shoot deep jumper and finishes well around the basket. Wish he were a couple inches taller, but if his performance yesterday was prologue, I’d take him at the 3 with the 1st unit on many nights.
Lopez is even larger in the flesh than he looks through the eyes of the television camera. The Nets could have a very bright 3-6 year future if the ping pong balls are kind enough to them to yield John Wall to pair with Lopez and one or two TOP FLIGHT free agents in ‘10. Having to wait until ‘12 to actually call NYC home might be a turnoff to some of the FAs, but you get the impression that the new Russian owner is gonna be a player for the likes of LBJ and CB4.
Grandad
December 14th, 2009
9:22 am
‘TS’:
mr.w. deserves a round of aplause! He is improving which goes
against his pattern of stubborness. He is beginning to administrate
some of the changes [Teager] that myself and others have been complaining about. Congrats to mr.w. and yourself for your loyalty.
If he proves himself during the playoffs, I will be one of the first
to give him his due.
niremetal
December 14th, 2009
9:22 am
You’re right, Clyde. Sean Williams’s 3 blocks during garbage time proves that the Nets would have won if only they had played him more.
What a joke
December 14th, 2009
9:27 am
Crashing the Glass keeps posting here trying to get people to read his blog not realizing that there’s a reason no one comments on it – its because no one reads it because its terrible. You are no better than the rest of us, fool. Stop pretending you are special enough to deserve your own blog. And Ray, stop trying to pump him up. Your continuing endorsements dont make him look good, it just makes you look bad.
Grandad
December 14th, 2009
9:49 am
Ken Strickland &
niremetal:
Brooke Lopez is a very good player. No, he is one of the best ‘young’
players in the league, as is Al. With all due respect, B.L. is good, and Big Al is good. I know you are drawing comparisons by using stats and you are correct. However, I cannot believe either of you would pass up the opportunity for Al and B.L. to play side by side. I also understand that is not even a remote possibility. My point is, that kid
can do things [offensively] that Dwight isn’t even capable of doing.
He is a monster, on off., plus he rebounds and makes a reasonable attempt at guarding his man. I also understand that you are defending Al and his value as a center. Don’t worry about the knuckleheads who cannot fathom that Al is 1st class albeit a [4] or a [5]. When the playoffs arrive and mr.w.’s rear end tightens up, the game will slow down, we will play “woody ball” as you have so aptly named it, and I feel there will be a need for Al to have an enforcer to compliment his
size and skill set. I have nothing but respect for the both of you, as you have both been very receptive to me as rookie on this board. Please accept my comments as they were intended. Thanks.
niremetal
December 14th, 2009
9:51 am
I thought this pretty much sums up the development of my views on the Crawford trade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBSF0Gi7oM0
Lacsho
December 14th, 2009
9:58 am
Great Win !!!! Sometimes one must keep scrolling.
Fundamentals
December 14th, 2009
10:11 am
Good points Granddad. Lopez might just take over Dwight as he continues to develop. He looked alot leaner than last year to me. Definitely a monster no doubt.
Al definitley needs someone to bang in the playoffs. That’s why I keep calling for Randmo & Collins. I doubt a trade will ever be easy for what we need. With our record, drafting will be difficult. To me it looks like we’ll have to farm our own big man. Right now Morris is our man.
Mike is Back
December 14th, 2009
10:19 am
BIG RAY, thanks for the plug on Crashing the Glass article, it was definitely good reading!! Crashing the Glass nice link broooooooooo.
H’mmmmmmmmmmmmm…who was cautioning against writing off RandMo in training camp…and said he might have redemption on his mind like Solo. I wanted the Hawks to develop, RandMo and Siler…we forget how young these guys are. I expected Othella to be rusting after sitting so long…he was still out there trying to play some d.
I have another caution…THIS SHOULD BRING SOME LAUGHS. lol I would caution against the continued scoffing of Collins. BY the second half of the season, Collins will have gain enough conditioning to affect play at Pivot. Don’t forget he is a great P&R guy…Having his playoff experience…size… and six fouls…just might be of some help before the season is over with.
Going down the stretch and come playoff time…his services could very well become a valued asset… just saying…could that have been part of the plan from the start. lol
Woody has the Hawks tied for first place in the SE conference with vaulted Orlando…and ranked third in the Eastern Conference ahead of LBJ…even with Shaq…WTF…NOUGH SAID…GIVE THE MAN HIS PROPS!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fundamentals
December 14th, 2009
10:24 am
Def agree Mike. Kids we’re griping about are terribly young. I don’t expect much from Othello, but I do like his energy. How bout Randmo diving into the stands after a ball! Who would’ve guessed that one last year? I can’t be more pleased with his efforts this year.
Collins will have alot to bring come playoff time mentally and physically. With a little bit of conditioning he’ll be a tremendous piece in the playoff grind.
I’m always looking for ways for our team to improve each week. Good to see I’m at the end of the bench cause the rest of the boys are playing some of the best ball we’ve seen.
Fundamentals
December 14th, 2009
10:27 am
Woody goes as his boys stick to the program. When they listen, play D and play together we see Woody as COY. When they digress we see “Woody Ball”. I don’t think the issue is as much with Woody as it is with kids that are growing up. Let them all develop. Good things are happening. After this post-season we’ll either look like a team that needs a change or we’ll be atop the national stage. We can only get better as most of our team has 10 years in the tank left.
Daniel
December 14th, 2009
10:34 am
Fundamentals- I couldn’t believ I saw RandMo diving into the stands. That is the exact opposite kind of play that his career has been known for. Too bad, the kid is learning too late in his career.
Mike- God, I hope you are right about Collins, he looks scary bad right now.
Grandad
December 14th, 2009
10:35 am
Fundamentals:
Thanks, and I’m beginning to come around on R.Morris. A Big body to grapple wi. the Dwights and Shaqs. His scoring could also be a plus.
J.Collins is what he is, ‘value meal and supersize it’.
Grandad
December 14th, 2009
10:38 am
Daniel – Great post but *he’s still a kid*!
Mike is Back
December 14th, 2009
11:01 am
Samuel, Ditto on your December 14th, 2009
8:32 am post to DOC… Another point to make is cost…when you look at what it would cost to lure a big name coach…getting a Big name coach is not as cut and dry as some think. Finishing third in the Eastern Conference with the Hawks budget should be more than enough to gain and extension. The talent of the Hawks is young enough to allow the Coach and the Team to continue to grow together as long as they continue to produce.
I have not witness any digression in the Hawks…in fact they are among the Elites in the league…the scaring thing is that they can perform even better as Woody continue to define guys roles.
I’m not taking up Woody’s defense…but I have to acknowledge his work…cuz like I said…I use to be one of his biggest detractors his first three years. However, I always wanted to see the team succeed…so its not a problem to swallow some crow and admit I was being too impatience…I recognize the blood, sweat, and tears Woody had his staff has poured into this team. I believe this team is for reeeeeeeeal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
The rest will take care of itself.