Joe Smith out, and some tidbits
Hello, Hawks fans-
Hope you are all well. A few things.
1) Joe Smith won’t be making the trip to Toronto. He’ll stay home for treatment, and Othello Hunter will be activated in his place. It’s possible Smith could play Sunday against New Jersey, but it would seem like that’d be an outside shot, perhaps somewhat dependent on what Hunter does against Toronto. Mike Woodson said Marvin Williams could be an option at 4 behind Al Horford if he doesn’t get what he wants from Hunter.
Smith had his hand in a wrap Thursday. He said the thumb was very sore.
2) A quick thought on Wednesday’s game:
They got a lot of help from the Bulls (Kirk Hinrich, playing after missing the last six games with a sprained thumb, missed all nine of his shots) but the Hawks played pretty tough defense for the second game in a row. They held Dallas and Chicago under 40 percent shooting and, if the fourth quarter hadn’t turned into an AAU game between the backups, they would have held both teams to their season lows for points.
I asked Joe Johnson if this was a turning point, defensively, for the team.
“I don’t know,” he said. “I hope so. We’ve been pretty good.”
3.) I think someone might have posted this already, but the Hawks reportedly lost $2 million last season, according to Forbes magazine. The report also said that the team is worth $306 million, which is 21st in the league.
4) To move along one of our favorite topics, Marvin Williams. Woodson on No. 24, from before Wednesday’s game:
“He’s still young. … When we got him, he was only 18, 19 years old. (He was 19 on opening night) He played on a national title team and played 20 minutes a game. He hasn’t played much ball is kind of how I look at it. He’s still learning.”
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439 comments Add your comment
Fundamentals
December 11th, 2009
12:14 pm
I don’t really consider Juwan and Andre Miller high priced free agents. Decent pieces, but don’t water down the Portland team with those picks. Think about how far they’d be without injury?
KevinA
December 11th, 2009
12:17 pm
Whats the diff between a golf ball and an Esclade?
Tiger can drive a golf ball over 400 yards………
Did u hear about Mrs Woods’s new line of golf clubs?
The advertising line will be ‘ With these clubs, I beat Tiger woods
what is the diff between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus??
Santa stops after 3 Ho’s
O'Brien
December 11th, 2009
12:22 pm
AJ,
I would not give Teague 20 mpg either. What I would give him is 10-14 minutes EVERY game. But there are games where he plays well, only to have a DNP CD the next game, and then 5 minutes the next game after that.
I know it should be about matchups, but there are games where Bibby isnt getting it done, but he still plays 36 mins and Teague doesnt see the court, (eg, Bibby only played 5 minutes against the Hornets because he was hurt,), but yet Teague barely played, and we still lost those games. I know its still early though, and Woody talks highly of Teague, so thats good.
KevinA,
I agree. The Hawks are shooting 33.8% from 3 (JJ is at 27.7%, and Crawford shoots 31%). And one reason is because we take a lot of bad shots. Shots where there was enough time on the shot clock where we could pass the ball around and try to get a better shot. Or shots where players were settling for the 3, instead of driving the ball, or dumping it inside.
If the shot is in rhythym, or you’re open, take it. But if it isnt falling, look for the drive, or pass it around. To piggy back off your comments, I think we should try to establish Al and Josh in the first half of every game, and that would open it up for JJ to take over in the 4th.
JeJe
December 11th, 2009
12:47 pm
I know exactly what will happen tonight:
It’s the same thing as last week. We won a big game mid-week (this week it was Chicago — last week it was Toronto). Tonight it will be a tough game in a very hostile environment. Woodson will ABANDON everything that went right the other night, including his rotations. He will NOT use RandMo or Collins even though Joe Smith is out. This is EXACTLY what happened last week. WOODSON WILL REVERT BACK TO HIS OLD SELF AND I AM 100 % OF THIS. HE WILL NOT USE THE BENCH WHICH WILL BE THIS TEAM’S DOWNFALL COME APRIL.
Also, Toronto has played better lately.
WOODSON, USE THE BENCH TONIGHT. DO NOT RUN A 6.5 MAN ROTATION
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
1:12 pm
Kevin A- I like the Santa Claus joke.
Fundamentals- Well, I care about positions. If you are saying this from a position of “stick it to Collins” Light a fire under him, by bringing on Hunter instead. Ok, I will bite for a game or so. But, I would strongly disagree that Othello is some diamond in the rough just waiting for playing time.
Rufus- If you think Harris and AI are more accomplished than Al and Josh, then we have VERY different opinions about how this season has been going. You are aware that Josh and Al are playing All Star level ball, Josh is in the running for DPOY.
Rufus1
December 11th, 2009
1:26 pm
Daniel & KevinA
I think you both make very good point…I will give Woody credit and this year to make me a believer, because I really want this team to succeed.
Daniel- I agree this year Al and Josh are doing very well, my only gripe is the time it has taken for Josh.(AL was NBA ready) Also PG in my opinion is the most important position in the current NBA.
It is nice to be one of the better teams in the league…..GO HAWKS
Fundamentals
December 11th, 2009
1:35 pm
Daniel – I wouldn’t say Hunter is a diamond in the rough. He’s just something productive compared to something unproductive. If I had it my way I would’ve signed Mario ahead of Hunter and given Siler a shot. No one could question Mario’s heart and effort. He also did alot to add to team chemistry. Collins needs a fire lit. He used to be a nice piece for other teams. We’ve got a good shot. What’s wrong with the dude?
cp
December 11th, 2009
1:40 pm
I dont think Teague should start but its clear that Bibby is hurt right now so I don’t see how increasing Teague’s minutes would be a problem. Bibby was limping around on the court the other night. I would rather see the younging play more than see Bibby struggling out there to even jog up the court. And Collins sucks. The dude is out of shape. All he can give us is hard fouls. Hunter can come in and give fouls. Collins brings absolutely nothing to the table. The dude can barely run up the court, has a terrible fg percentage for a big man, and is once again terribly out of shape. Hopefully Hunter plays well enough to make Woodson think about letting Collins sit in a suit until he can get in some type of shape.
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
1:40 pm
Fundamentals- Ok, I get what you are saying. And, I have to say that I agree with you. Just because he is on the vet min. (btw so is Joe Smith) does he have to look and play like the Pilsbury Dough Boy? I know he is the 3rd center, but having an active, fit player in that role could be the difference in 3 to 4 games over the season, which is prob the difference between a 2cd and 4th seed.
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
1:41 pm
I will say that Hunter has NO chance of filling that role. Just doesn’t have enough size.
Fundamentals
December 11th, 2009
1:59 pm
Definitely agree w/ you Daniel. I don’t care if Collins takes the 1st 3/4 of the season off. He’s gotta be ready to really bang and play well in the playoff’s to be of any value. Being fit now would’ve been an assett against Dwight.
We’ll need him for the Cav’s…but he won’t be ready. He’s hurting us. He might cost us a seed, which to me isn’t as big a deal. More importantly he’ll cost us by not being ready for the playoff’s which is the million dollar vet min question. We’re getting value out of Joe Smith. I’m loving him. I just wish Collins had the same level of professionalism. What is he teaching our younger kids? Nothing good from what I can see. He’s not good for our bench. Get him outta there.
Othello can maybe play limited minutes at the 3, but at least he’ll be active and filling a role. Maybe he’ll suprise us. Maybe he’ll end up back in the D-League where he probably belongs. At least there is some mystery.
Collins performance the other night left me thinking – I know I could’ve done better than that myself! I get pissed every time I see him!
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
2:06 pm
Fundamentals- your feelings are the same ones that I have had with Randolph Morris for the past two seasons. He actually made me angry to see him in uniform.
Dom 'the Don' Wilkins
December 11th, 2009
2:09 pm
I’m not sure that I understand why everyone says that Collins and the other pine heaters need to be ready come playoff time. Come on, do you really think with the way Woody rotates players in tight games, that you will ever see these guys take off the sweats in the playoffs? Remember what coach we are talking about here.
And that is not a knock on Woody, it’ just the truth. We won’t be needing Collins come playoff time.
Fundamentals
December 11th, 2009
2:49 pm
Injuries in the playoffs killed us last year. Did you watch the playoffs last year? Weren’t guys like Joe Smith & Ben Wallace killing us against the Cavs? If we have any injuries to our bigs then folks like Collins, Randmo & ZaZa become critical to us becoming contenders instead of pretenders like last year in the 2nd round.
Whether Woody uses them or not will most likely affect his next contract after the playoffs are over.
We will be needing every piece on our bench to be competitive in the 2nd round or further! It’s critical!
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
3:11 pm
Fundamentals- I am not sure also if our 11/12 players will be critical in the playoffs. If they are, we are likely to lose. But, I will say that they can add the kind of depth to win in the doldrums of the season. Which can affect seeding, I happen to think the seeding is very critical to our playoff success or failure.
Astro Joe
December 11th, 2009
3:17 pm
If every player gets 20 minutes to be ready for the playoffs, we won’t make the playoffs because very player doesn’t deserve 15-20 minutes each and every game.
Let Bacon Jason burn off his weight in practice and let Hunter get a little PT while Joe Smith is out (little as in 5-8 minutes).
Fundamentals
December 11th, 2009
3:24 pm
I can agree with all that. I never said give them all 20 minutes like it’s church league. Give me a break. We do need quality bigs for banging in the playoffs should someone get hurt.
All I mean if if we’re doing well, putting away teams like we should then there’s no reason to give Othello, Randmo or Collins minutes.
Othella will 99% sure be a D-League player by seasons end.
Randmo will hopefully fight for the #2 Center spot if he continues to progress.
Collins needs to go home.
You can’t tell me the last guys on the bench aren’t important to our team in terms of practice competition, playoff emergencies and overall depth.
If each of the three in disussion could produce like Joe Smith has for us we’d be much better in terms of W/L, seeding and playoff strength.
Ken Strickland
December 11th, 2009
3:55 pm
KEVINA-I started to respond to your comments, but had to break it off when my big girl insisted she had to go outside to use the bathroom. After returning sometime later, I saw the comments by RUFUS1 and realized he pretty much summed up everything I was going to say.
Astro Joe
December 11th, 2009
4:00 pm
Fundamentals, you could give RndMo 40 minutes a game for the next 40 games and he will not likely be as good of a player as Joe Smith. The notion that playing time produces a more productive player is a falacy. There are other variables like talent, work ethic and basketball intelligence that come into play as well. What happens in the first quarter of the season won’t likely mean a lot in terms of what happens in games 83 and beyond. Lastly, if player A is missing shots, making poor defensive rotations and is fumbling balls off his hands routinely during practices… should that factor into his playing time in real games? Is there even the slightest chance that a coach would use practice sessions to determine playing time allocation (especially for younger players or those who devour triple bacon cheeseburgers before, during and after practice)? Or should a coach ignore practice performance and hand out 12-20 minutes of PT like handing out smarties to children?
Daniel
December 11th, 2009
4:28 pm
Astro- I am going to have to defend fundamentals here. I don’t think he was calling for Randolph or Hunter to play more minutes, etc. Just that Collins has looked soooo bad in his limited minutes that he either needs to get with it or get on. And that our 3rd center’s effort does have an effect on the team, and right now Collins is giving us nothing.
I hope I said what you meant fund. I don’t think he meant that Randolph or Collins or Hunter were going to be significant minutes/contribution guys. Rather Collins wasn’t giving us any amount of acceptable performance.
KevinA
December 11th, 2009
4:42 pm
I have not seen Rand Mo play enough to make any kind of decesion. He has looked pretty good in garbage time against the ends of other teams benches but has yet to be played when the games outcome is still in question.
I would like to see him play at least a couple of times agains the starters to get a better picture of where he is at.
Al can play the 4 spot and ZaZa should be plenty fresh. In fact I would like to see Al pulled after 5 min so he could have some playing time with Teague in the second unit. All they have to do is get Jamal to run and not many teams could catch us.
Ken Strickland
December 11th, 2009
4:45 pm
Why all of the concern about OHunter replacing JCollins on the bench. After all, didn’t he suit up last yr and sit on the bench, only to get ignored by Woody? What difference does it make if he’s talented, athletic and energetic if he’ll never get a chance to utilize any of those attributes. Besides, he’s a young player that needs time, attention and mins to develop, and we all know what that means when it comes to Woody.
The Lakers drafted Bynum and had Kareem work with him DURING THE SEASON. They didn’t wait until the off season for him to find someone to help him improve his game on his own like we’ve done with Horford, Smoove and Marvin. They also made a conscience effort to CONSISTENTLY include Bynum in their OFF, and he’s responded to the tune of 18PPG.
I good HC consistently works at developing a young player during the season by trying to incorporate he and his talents into the OFF and the rotation as quickly as possible. Woodson hasn’t tried to do that since Marvin was drafted. Once he got his vets and core in place, he abandoned any pretense of trying to develop anybody.
Woodson’s OFF is so limited overall that certain players who don’t have the ability to go one on one, or consistently create their own shots, are up and down from gm to gm depending on who they’re playing. His OFF isn’t capable of consistently getting easy shots for his players. Other than when we’ve played in Seattle or Portland, can anyone really say they’ve observed a single gm where Woodson has made an effort to take advantage of any matchup advantages with Marvin?
Other than posting him up, can you say you’ve ever seen a single pick, play or formation incorporated into Woodsons limited OFF that’s designed to get Marvin an open shot. We see pick and rolls run for every starter except Marvin, and pick and rolls are very effective when both players are good outside shooters.
If you put this team in the hands of a HC that pays attention to details, isn’t afraid to utilize his bench or rookies, knows how to make adjustments and changes, especially during gms, and knows how to design an OFF that takes full advantage of the talents on this team, we’d definitely rule the East.
Big Ray
December 11th, 2009
5:24 pm
Hot damn! Astro Joe is back in da flow!
Who suggested they’d take Will Bynum for Al Horford? Sorry, but I can’t go for that at all. You never trade a double-double PF/C for a backup 6 foot guard. Now Andrew Bynum is a different story. Still not sure I’d do that trade, but at least it’s a center for a center, as it were….
E43
December 11th, 2009
5:28 pm
northcyde- im not taking anything of what i said earlier back about our 10 man rotation. the hawks have been solid deploying the 1st ten this year. im not complaining that that the 10th man doesnt get significant minutes, im just implying that the NBA has injuries and when they do occur God forbid at least the edges of our depth chart will be sharpened. the whole purpose of last offseason was to get a depth chart that wont change the starting fives minute times in the event of injuries to the bench or within the five.
Big Ray
December 11th, 2009
5:41 pm
Ken ,
Whose minutes do you suggest Othello Hunter take? Josh Smith, Al Horford, Joe Smith, or Zaza Pachulia? Unless dude is playing the 3 (and nothing about him convinces me he can do so), those are the four guys he has to be taking minutes from.
As for Woody’s offense….I agree that there are some problems there. I don’t want to get into too much detail on that opinion, but I will say this: We just took over third place in the Eastern Conference standings, ahead of the Cavs. Yeah, THOSE Cavs. The guys with Lebron and Shaq. Mo Williams, etc. That’s THREE all-stars. Our offense may not be as good as we want it to be, but 21 games in, and this is where we are.
Not only that, but we’re 6th in the NBA in points scored per game, trailing only Phoenix, Denver, Toronto, Golden State, and the L.A. Lakers. That puts us ahead of some pretty good teams and pretty good coaches. Out of those teams, only L.A. is clearly better than us. Phoenix is debatable, and Denver is too, if you ask me. Hey, we may not like everything we see, but something must be working, at least for now.
Of course, the other way of looking at it is to say “call me back in another 20 games, or after a key player goes down with injury.” Well, last I looked, that hurts most teams. Ask the Spurs. I don’t like the ISOs, but when we share the ball, we’re VERY hard to beat. That, and not everything is Woody. Sometimes our guards get too shot happy.
Big Ray
December 11th, 2009
5:45 pm
As for the whole thing with Marvin, I’m not sure what to say. On the one hand, Marvin doesn’t seem very good at creating his own shot, pick and roll or not. He needs the ball in flow/motion or as a spot up shooter, more often than not. Not saying he can’t create his own shot at all, just that he’s not as good at it as many of the other guys. Even Smoove seems more comfortable trying to make something happen.
No, we don’t run many plays for him. I really don’t know why for certain. At the same time, I don’t see Marvin doing anything that makes me want to take the ball out of JJ, Smoove, or Al’s hands. Or Crawford, when he’s on the floor. Well, not all the time, anyway. Sometimes I do really want to see Marvin get the ball, particularly when Joe is in a rut shooting and decision making. Marvin really isn’t that great on the pick and roll. I don’t know why. Maybe that’s why we don’t see him when that play is run.
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
6:55 pm
LETS GET IT…
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
7:01 pm
iso Nique’
he’s never ready when Bob passes it to him….
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:18 pm
Stop giving the ball out soooo damn far
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:18 pm
Stop giving horford the ball out soooo damn far
Melvin
December 11th, 2009
7:21 pm
Hawks look sluggish or a step slow to start the game…
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:26 pm
Here we go with this sh*t
J.J.M.
December 11th, 2009
7:26 pm
can we please trade marvin
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:27 pm
Oh great Woody give em more pts
O'Brien
December 11th, 2009
7:29 pm
Marvin with the And 1
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
7:29 pm
PASS THE BALL!
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:29 pm
Even ttho Joe hit that. Whe is he hoggin the ball.
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
7:30 pm
HELL OF A SHOT THOUGH…
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:30 pm
*Why
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 11th, 2009
7:30 pm
Joe made it..but he dribbles himself into trouble too much…..
if the team isnt out on a fast break….joe doesnt trust his teammates..
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
Josh can’t buy a bucket
J.J.M.
December 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
that was good d by horford
O'Brien
December 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
And thats why Woody will let JJ do whatever he wants. Because even though JJ was being a ball hog, and had 2 defenders on him, and might have been fading away, he still made it. Heck of a shot.
Thats one of those “Bad shot, Joe”, and then it becomes “good shot Joe” when it goes in lol.
Hawks are 3-4 from 3. Thats a good sign.
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
Put Teague in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
December 11th, 2009
7:34 pm
Frontcourt: 0-7
Perimeter players: 7-11
KevinA, where you at?
J.J.M.
December 11th, 2009
7:34 pm
nice block
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
7:35 pm
great D Joe and Josh…
BONE
December 11th, 2009
7:36 pm
Good drive Josh
bigdave
December 11th, 2009
7:36 pm
offensive foul…
niremetal
December 11th, 2009
7:37 pm
Best defensive rotations I’ve seen in awhile leading to that block by Josh. JJ doubled down, Bargnani made a great move, but Josh was waiting for him.