7:05 pm December 9, 2009, by Ken Sugiura
Sorry to get on late. Busy night.
Another packed house at Philips….
December 9th, 200911:05 pm
It’S some very disturbing bloggers posting tonight as usual. Also who were the one complaining about Moe Evan all night in the early going and nothing about Moe when he picked his game up in the second half. Amazing, amazing.
December 9th, 200911:10 pm
Houston has defeated the Cav’s placing them in the fourth spot in the East.. Of the so-called big three I think the Cav’s are the weak link. Hawks could move from fourth to third best record in the East. I had thought that the division champs received the first three seeds but have discovered that the rule was changed in 2007!
I have found the answer at: http://www.nba.com/features/seedingprimer07.html
“The top four seeds will be the three division winners plus the team with the next best record. Those four will be ordered by record (and tiebreakers if needed), so it’s possible that two teams in the same division could hold the top two spots, with the other two division winners at Nos. 3 and 4.
Seeds 5 through 8 are the next four teams according to record (and tiebreakers if needed).
First Round matchups are as follows:
1 vs. 8
4 vs. 5
2 vs. 7
3 vs. 6 ”
So I have been in error in assuming that the division winners will be seeded ahead of the Hawks even if the Hawks have a better won lost record. Good news. Moving up one spot on the playoff record would also be another step in the right direction. Right now I think the Hawks are definitely ahead of last year’s pace and are moving on up the ladder. Getting the second seed would be even better. Is this a special year? What fun we have to look forward to in the next few months.
Come on now, seriously?
December 9th, 200911:15 pm
Would it be a violation of your prediction if I were to point out that my non prediction still stands after game one of the ten game set?
December 9th, 200911:16 pm
Please notice that I did not really say anything that would violate the spirit of breaking your prediction I just asked a question.
December 9th, 200911:22 pm
Big Ump, mo did crank his game up, but keeping it real there was 0 defense applied by the bulls. This was a scrimmage. For long range shooters it sometimes takes a few shots to find your range,
Samuel Whatz up? Do believe that if I were Woodson, Id finish the year and take my chances elsewhere. I know that would be hard for him because hes put his soul in to his work. But if It were me I think I would go else where.
By just letting Sund play him any kind of way hes losing a lot of leverage. No doubt in my mind a lot of teams would offer him a three year contract. So why should he stay here and let Sund disrespect him such as he is.
The article on the Boston NBA web page said it all. But just from a business sense, Id have my agent sending inquires right now.
Ray, shout out! I see the peanut gallery is on board and Ive got finals cooking. Hold it down Cuz!
December 9th, 200911:25 pm
Big Ump , have you noticed they come out after dark-LOL, Thats why I carry silver bullets!
nunna yo biznezz
December 9th, 200911:31 pm
i had the hawks losing this game because i knew,i just knew that woody would go thru the same routine and not play his bench and that the team would be out of sync..they were slightly in sync,and he played his bench..
so i was wrong..
i still stand by the 3-7 record over the 10 game period which started tonite..if im wrong,then it may be 4-6..but,i would love to be totally wrong and they go 10-0,and we’d have played like jon barry and mark jackson said tonite on numerous occasions during espn’s broadcast,that we’re a 10 deep team and that teague would be a rookie of the year candidate on another team if he didn’t play with da hawks..
if woody would just be consistent and play his bench and develope his rookie and young players like othello hunter as well,then i’ll shut my mouth and look for him to bring home an NBA championship within the next 2 years..
but,i seriously doubt it..
i really do..but,i’d be happy if he proved me wrong
December 9th, 200911:34 pm
Truth Serum – interesting thought. I’m not sure I’d call what Sund is doing disrespectful, though. He’s exercising his right to evaluate Woodson. He has obviously improved the team, but this is obviously a big year for the team in terms of (a Woodson-ism) if he can get the team to take the jump from good to great. I don’t necessarily think all coaches can do that. It so far looks like Woodson can, but I can’t say I begrudge Sund for wanting to find out.
And if it is disrespectful, couldn’t an argument be made that having your agent look for another job, as you’re suggesting he do, while he’s currently employed is similarly disrespectful?
December 9th, 200911:38 pm
December 9th, 2009
Funny thing, Boston Celtics Blog page runs a story about the players and how much they like Woody and how successful the hawks are. I asked the question why is Boston so concerned?
If I were Woodson, Id walk after the year regardless. I would consider this insulting. Most of the pro analyst are asking the same question.
WHO IN DA F SAID THAT???????????
EVEN JON BARRY,MARK JACKSON,OR NOT EVEN NIQUE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT..
WOODY WOULD BE ABLE TO WALK IF HE DOES RIGHT AND COACHES THIS TEAM UP,AND IS MORE CONSISTENT,AND HAVE THE PLAYERS LISTEN TO HIM MORE,AND DEVELOPE HIS BENCH AND YOUNG PLAYERS..
THEN,YES,MAYBE TEAMS WOULD BE ASKING THAT QUESTION AND WOULD GIVE HIM A FAT CONTRACT TO COACH THEIR TEAM..
BUT,I DOUBT IT
Bless your heart. I mean that in the most sincere context.
December 9th, 200911:45 pm
WITHOUT NAMING NAMES,DO U KNOW IF ANY HAWKS PLAYERS OR COACHES READ THE BLOGS ON HERE??
LIKE YOURS OR BIG RAY’S FANS NEST??
IM SURE THEY MAY JOKE TO U ABOUT TEAGUE AND HIS PLAYING TIME IF THEY DID,BUT DO U KNOW IF THEY READ THESE BLOGS???
December 9th, 200911:49 pm
“Of the so-called big three I think the Cav’s are the weak link.”
You’re probably right, but how the big three are seeded isn’t really relevant to the Hawks. What should matter to the Hawks is matchups. When you take that into account, I would rank them 1. Boston, 2. Cleveland, 3. Orlando as far as easiest to toughest. The Cavs may not be as good as Boston, but their size would post a huge challenge to the Hawks. The Celtics, on the other hand, a) don’t have the sheer size and length that the Cavs do, and b) take a lot of jump shots and don’t really put pressure on the shot blockers the way LeBron James does.
If the Hawks end up with a 3 or 4 seed, which seems likely, I would rather see the seeding shake out in a way that gets the Hawks a second-round matchup with Boston, rather than Cleveland. Of course, if they can get a 2 seed and home court advantage in the second round, I’d take that over any specific matchup.
December 9th, 200911:51 pm
^^ pose a huge challenge, not post a huge challenge…
December 10th, 200912:04 am
yet the league/press made a big deal about Josh going b/t the legs…
Spiro — I think the Big 3 is now a Big 4. But I still think the Hawks are probably 4th in the hierarchy. “
December 10th, 200912:16 am
Damn, something must have changed with the Utah Jazz over the offseason. Their roster is mostly the same, but they used to be almost an automatic out on the road. Not so much this year. They beat the Spurs on the road on Monday and are tied at LA tonight.
I bring this up, of course, because they are coming to ATL in a week. That is going to be a much tougher challenge than it might have been a year ago.
I am convinced that winning breeds contempt. The Hawks blog used to always be as peaceful as any. Now people are going at each other repeatedly. Not to mention verbal attacks on the beat writer. Heck, I even gave my true opinion recently. Winning basketball games is supposed to be like church. Everybody on the same page. To me, its starting to look like winning the lottery. Everybody is cutthroat. Big Ray even laid the sarcasm on heavily in an earlier post. The only other variable besides winning is the beat writer. Come on people.
December 10th, 200912:34 am
For anybody who is interested, Joe Smith’s x-ray’s came back negative. Injury listed as day to day.
This coming from ESPN.com
December 10th, 200912:45 am
nunna yo biznezz , got me up late doing finals online.
Yeah. thats me, not the bubba crew impersonation. I understood your first shout but was not clear about your follow up.
I encourage Woodson to let other teams know that he is interested, in stability and a guaranteed contract, sure, why not?
Out side of this blog page he is highly respected for what he has accomplished. Many cities would be happy to have a proven and successful coach who is responsible and a fine citizen to boot!
He has in fact done a remarkable job. Business is business. So are you telling me that if your employer ignored you success or down played them, refused to raise you according to market value and you knew you could get more else where You wouldn’t?
Woodson could walk if he wants too! hes under no contract after this year, and I would not take a 2 year non guaranteed deal. As far as Im concerned I agree with Boston, Woodson has proved his talents to take a 13 win team to a stable #4 seed with clear potential to go higher. Hes already proven that he can play with anyone.
Also, this is not the most talented team in the NBA. We have 1 second tier allstar and no legitmate center, every body else is growing or learning or transitioning, yet you are demanding a world championship with that?
Hes getting more wins out of less salary than all the team’s coaches in front of him. I would not blame him at all if he looked out for his family and his best interest. I would be sad for the city of Atlanta but I would applaud his decision in the best interest of his family.
Mr Ken Sugiura, It seems we see this matter differently. As the Boston poster said weve seen enough of Woodson know his ability. The growth of the corn is the farmers pride, the buildings design is the architects glory, the exceptional engine is the engineer’s craftsmanship, the success and growth of the hawks is Woodsons handiwork.
To act as if he has to be the best coach that ever lived in order to coach this team (that’s what he would be to win a championship with this team) is an insult.
Most good coaches ride the backs of their superstar players. They aren’t really all that great, what did they really say or do. ” give the ball to magic” … “give the ball to bird”… “give the ball to jordan” ? Give it to lebron? give it to kobe?
Give me a break!
So my advice to Woodson is continue to do the good job you have done and is doing, but lookout for your family. Right now your market value is a lot higher than Sund is giving you credit for, and that’s whats insulting.
So no, Mr Sugiura, its not insulting to make the best decision for you and your family when your employer doesn’t see your talents the way you or others do. Last time I checked it was called business.
Back to the finals.
December 10th, 200912:48 am
Najeh Davenpoop Ditto. Thats our best chance. I wish we could have had that chance last year insead of Cleveland.
December 10th, 200912:59 am
Should Woodson Get Extension?: Hawk Players Say Yes
by tenaciousT on Dec 7, 2009 1:17 PM EST
“Consider it this way.
On your watch, your team has increased its success 361% over 5 years. That means you’ve navigated your team to an average annual gain of 38% per year.
If you were a corporate executive, they would be tripling your bonus, increasing your stock options, increasing your expense account, and naming a sandwich in the executive cafeteria in your honor. You’d have a lifetime free reserved parking space right up front in the company parking lot.
Atlanta head coach Mike Woodson has done just that and he doesn’t even know if he will have a job next season.
But ask the Hawk players and they, at least the five players I spoke to, agree that Woodson should get another extension. They are in unified agreement that Woodson is a big part of why they where they are. Some say it should have happened already.
When I look at it, this thing is….more of a business than anything. And it kind of takes the sport out of it a little bit….because you’re thinking so much with a business mind. Hopefully they’ll get something done. Because, like you said, there’s not too many coaches that have taken a team from when they first got here, 13-14 wins, to now, last year 47 wins. Now try to take it up another level.
And that is Woodson’s challenge….taking it up yet another level. It just gets harder the closer you get to the top of the mountain. Can this Hawk team become an elite team and a true title contender?
How do you rate him with all the other coaches you played for?
Definitely one of the top. I’ve had a couple…I’ve had Lionel Hollins, umm….Rick Adelman and Coach Woodson’s right up there with those two, too.
Adelman? That’s rich company.
I mean… you get a lot of different type of attitudes and personalities with coaches. You know, some coaches are “this is my way” and ‘this is how we’re going to do it’ and you have coaches like Woodson, I mean just…I tell the guys….we got it good (here).
A lot of coaches that you (the Hawks players) probably wouldn’t like playing for. I mean, we have got a good situation with coach Woodson. He definitely deserves an extension.
Welcome to the ultra competitive NBA, an Atlanta team known for it’s frugality, an ownership group that has its own issues, a weak residual economy, an yet-to-determined new Collective Bargaining Agreement in the early stages of negotiations and it helps explain the situation. Are those the reasons why Woodson is coaching this crucial season without a net?
Or is it really as simple as something like… the team’s brain trust is unsure that Mike Woodson is the guy that can take this team to the next level?
They have only had five years of work to make that determination.”
December 10th, 20091:09 am
As far as seeds go, be careful with Cleve.,NBA/ESPN/LBJ/NIKE consortium may make it hard for any blue collar team to beat them.
December 10th, 20091:13 am
Seriously; would you eat a sandwich called the “Big Woody”?
December 10th, 20091:21 am
The good Woody showed up tinight, and as a friend aptly said, “It’s always nice to have a good woody!”
We are so much better when we are using all the capable tools we have on our team, and although I’ve been a critic of Woody’s, he was great tonight at spreading the minutes around. What a pleasure to see Teague getting significant minutes, and to see us moving the ball around to the open man. I know many on the blog don’t agree with this, but Ken Strickland tells it like it is – we’re a better team without Bibby on the floor – we sure as hell were tonight.
Let’s hope Woody sees the difference too, and shows consistent faith in all the players at his disposal in the future. Move the ball, penetrate, find the open man, run at every opportunity, and play helping defense and we can be a special team.
December 10th, 20091:22 am
My previous post was in reference to:
tenacious T @ 12:59 AM paragraph 3.
prev. posted on 12/07/09 @ 1:17 PM by ten. T.
December 10th, 20091:56 am
There’s a mistake in your recap. Mo had 18 not Jeff.
I got a WOODY
December 10th, 20092:42 am
Where do all these names come from that we never see on this site? And why do they always support the Bubba crew?
December 10th, 20092:46 am
My previous post was in reference to the first woody I ate. But the second woody I ate tasted a lot better because it filled my whole mouth.There’s nothing wrong with it, I mean if you like it. Any I’ll tell you a secret later. OK.
December 10th, 20092:51 am
Any way, what I was going to say is, id like to meet tenacious T, so if he wants to, Im ok with it.
Seriously; would you eat a “Big Woody”?
December 10th, 20093:04 am
You have to understand there is a difference in woody and a woody if you know what I mean.
December 10th, 20093:10 am
Sooooo……first it was fire Woodson……now its Woodson should leave because Sund is disrespecting him by not awarding his great coaching……
Man this is one bi-polar blog Lol!!
But for the record, put me in the extend Woody (No Homo) camp….
Oh holdup, thats not all….
This seems to be purely business whereas Sund is basically taking the watch and see approach. If Woodson excels I’m sure he will get an extension. At the end of the day Woodson should be used to this approach, because he uses as much as anyone I’ve ever seen….
What’s the difference in what he does with young players such as Acie, Salim, and Teague (If you play to your best ability, you see the floor. If you struggle, take yo a** to the bench); than whats Sund doing with him?
If Woodson wins, he’ll be extended without question. I don’t think the ASG wan’t to toy with the momentum there’re finally starting to build. Like a earlier poster said, most people outside of this blog have respect for the job Woodson have done.
Crashing the Glass
December 10th, 20094:29 am
“What’s the difference in what he does with young players such as Acie, Salim, and Teague (If you play to your best ability, you see the floor. If you struggle, take yo a** to the bench); than whats Sund doing with him?” -Mychel
This is a very good point. Hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Crawford is a damn machine though-
Sugiura, you’re doing a bang up job following in the shoes of an excellent beat writer.
Fire Clyde (and his boy Noah).
December 10th, 20096:28 am
I agree with you on your 11:22 post. You right they do come out after dark. Always keep you some extra silver bullets with you at all time.
December 10th, 20097:55 am
I miss Sekou.
I do not understand the negativity toward Bibby. The Hawks made a major jump when he came on board. He is sometimes a defensive liability but he has a way of hiding in the weeds and stealing the ball on occasion. But the big stat on him that I have seen no one here comment on is the fact that the Hawks lead the league in having the least turnovers per game. While this is a team stat it reflects more on the PG than any other player on the team. The man took a pay cut to remain here.
Eventually Jeff Teague will replace Bibby but for now I am happy to see Bibby leading the charge..
December 10th, 20098:03 am
1st part of the game had me concerned we’d make this a contest. Props to the second unit for really getting things going. Very dissappointing to see Woody pull them so the starters could play lackluster again. Why play Bibby w/ a 20 pt lead and he’s limping? Good to see Collins and Randmo get a few minutes. We need those guys sharp and in shape. Joe Smith is definitely the Beast! Loving him. Hopefully his hand injury will allow Collins and Randmo a few minutes. He’ll be primed to return soon since the x-rays showed no real damage. Very satisfied with the resolve of the team to shut these guys down. Toronto will prove to be a big test. Bosh will be pissed after last game. Hopefully we’ll teach him a lesson about team D.
December 10th, 20098:10 am
TRUTH SERUM-You keep bringing up some article written by someone from Boston that you say shows them being concerned about Woodson in some way. And you have seized that article and tried to spin it into to some kind of endorsement of your beloved Woody.
Well, there are always 2 sides to a story. Maybe, just maybe, they are concerned about Woodson’s status because if he’s fired and the Hawks bring someone in that actually pays attention to details, designs an OFF that takes full advanage of the teams particular talents, utilizes in gm strategy, establishes consistency and allows them to run, Boston’s chances of winning the East, let alone an NBA title, would be somewhere between slim and none.
December 10th, 20098:23 am
I’m not saying anything about Woody here, but there was a time just prior to Woody that I begged for Doc to coach the Hawks. If there even was an article, they probably worry about Woody cause Doc might want to come home. It’s hard for me to stomach Doc & Danny actually getting along. Just the thought of the Celtics makes me sick.
Woody’s contract and Joe’s contract should be discussed a few weeks after the playoff’s is over. Either might do alot better, the same or worse depending on performance.
Excellent point about Woody’s coaching style. Using it against him is totally fair – Coach perfectly or we’ll sit your … on another bench. Sund is just treating him like he treats others.
December 10th, 20098:25 am
That’s a little far-fetched, don’t ya think lol. I mean my-God!! Dude you just came up with a watergate conspiracy LMAO.
December 10th, 20099:40 am
Interesting point in the Forbes ranking of NBA franchises by market value. The Hawks are one of the many teams,including somewhat surprisingly the Dallas Mavs, that lost money last year.(And they were 21st out of 30 teams in terms of the franchise’s value)
So the whole discussion concerning the team’s future has to placed in the context of finances: the team can’t afford to do much more than it has ,inspite of winning somewhat consistently.
The implications are most pressing in the case of re-signing Joe but may impact coaching changes as well. However, the biggest issue is free agency as a means to improve the roster. Unless some team would take Marvin and a first for a quality center, the Hawks have to develop the talent that they have.And that means a change in coaching philosphy from vets to player development. And maybe that is a reason for the delay in re-signing Woodson: he is relutant to take the time to develop players-in several instances he played them and then harped on their mistakes as proof of their lack of capability to play rather than providing teachable moments.
To be fair, he has lasted much longer here than he would have anywhere else inspite of his record so there is no malice in the ownership against him. There is ,I believe a desire to see if he can go to the next level via player development before there is any major investment in both his and any player’s long term future.
On another note, condolences to Coach Drew and his family on the death of his father this week.
December 10th, 200910:11 am
Is there any way to force Collins to get into game shape or drop him for a D-League prospect? We’d be better off with Hunter in uni’s and no Collins right now? Can we swap him to the D-League for Siler? What a mistake he’s become. With Joe Smith day to day he or Randmo will be needed.
December 10th, 200910:17 am
You’re right in that Boston is the best matchup for the Hawks. And I hope thats who the Hawks get in the second round.
As far as Woody looking for another job (or walking, just on principle), lets face it. If another team hires Woody as head coach, he will be starting over, and he will not have the quality of players that the Hawks have.
Does he really want to go through 1 or 2 (possible) losing seasons with another team, when he can finish the year with the Hawks, take them to the second round and collect his extension then?
Imagine if Sund gives Woody a contract extension during the season, only to see them lose in the first round of the playoffs, or get swept in the second round again?
I would not be surprised if Sund wants to see how Woody does in the playoffs. He got Crawford and Joe Smith, and drafted Teague. Expectations are higher this year, and maybe Sund wants to make sure the Hawks are very competitive in the playoffs (especially the second round).
Plus, Woody has a chance to dictate what kind of extension he gets. If he had been offered one before the seaosn, it might have been another 2 year deal. However, if the Hawks make it to the ECF, he would probably get at least 3 years.
All Woody has to do is keep winning (especially in the playoffs), and the extension will come.
December 10th, 200910:27 am
Grandad – Thanks
JDPeace – Thanks for pointing that out.Will fix.
December 10th, 200911:02 am
I agree on the posts about bias towards the Cavs, Lakers or Celtics. Even Orlando is on the cusp of getting real preferential treatment at times. It’ll be tough for us whatever way we go. Everyone thinks Boston is the easy ticket, but I think they’re team game is much more solid than the other two. Shaq & Big Z are slow, but we’d have to deal with Lebron – Dwight and Vince always have a way of making us look stupid. It’s a tough call on who we want. We’ve gotta be on top of our game to win either of the 3 in a 7 game series. We need everyone at 100% or we won’t stand a chance.
December 10th, 200911:14 am
Great game last night.
December 10th, 200911:31 am
Is there any way we can ANDRIS BIEDRINS rick sund?
December 10th, 200911:34 am
What about our number 1 pick for biedrins?
December 10th, 200911:36 am
Great win last night. The Hawks were clicking on all cylinders.
1) I agree with Najeh’s ranking of the other top three teams in terms of match ups with the Hawks. I disagree with what Mark Jackson and Jon Barry said last night, that the Celtics would be the toughest matchup for the Hawks. I say bring on the Celtics, avoid the Magic, and deal with Clevland. Although we get that back to back with Clevland coming up.
2) Also, the ESPN commmentators talked about Woodson’s lack of an extension and blamed it on ownership issues. That is so totally off base, that if they bothered to read any of the AJC reports they would know it is a Sund decision. Just shows how much attention the National Media is really paying to the Hawks. It will come though.
December 10th, 200911:37 am
We have 2 get a solid center 2 be able 2 contend for a title, no way can we beat the celtic, cavs, or magic with out a center.
December 10th, 200911:40 am
Daniel yes im happy we won last night but its a long season and we need a center.
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