Post Dallas
Greetings, all-
Hope you enjoyed the game Saturday night.
My thoughts:
- No matter how the Hawks shot the ball, holding Dallas to 75 points in its building is an impressive feat. It’s Dallas’ season low.
- As I made mention in the game story, the Hawks played far better defense than they did against New York and perhaps their best in awhile. Dallas had their runs, but didn’t get that many easy baskets.
- Dirk Nowitzki is ridiculous.
- The Hawks, at times, moved the ball really well to get open shots. But it went stagnant at times – a decent number of possessions where one or two players touched the ball, or players jacking up jump shots early in the shot clock when better shots could have been worked for. They had 16 assists on 32 baskets, an OK number.
- Love him or hate him, Joe Johnson did what he does best, make a lot of baskets, many of them crucial. He took 24 shots to make 31 points.
Some extra quotes:
Mike Woodson: “[Joe Johnson] got off to such a hot start and then we hit the spell in the second quarter where we just couldn’t make a shot. We had some good looks, but to come in (at halftime) up one (was a good thing).”
On the first 20 games: “It’s been a good run. Our schedule was not favorable to start the season and we withstood it. We’ve just got to continue our winning ways on the road and continue our ways at home in terms of winning.”
Joe Smith, on energy level: “It was good, from start to finish. We came out first half, did a good job of building that lead. Unfortunately, we didn’t close out the first half in the way that we would like but I think in the second half we did a good job of getting back to what got us that lead, and we were able to maintain it the rest of the game. The energy was good and our aggressiveness was good.”
Joe Johnson, on Dallas going small: “I think it played a little bit to our advantage, playing small ball with me, Mike and Jamal in the game. I think it’s kind of a win-win for us. Tonight, I think we played pretty good defense. We made shots when we needed to. We got stops down the stretch when we needed to and we pretty much opened it up. We played like we had been earlier in the season.
A couple links:
My updated story with quotes. Jamal Crawford: “If you asked people, they probably would have thought we’d win [Friday] night and lose [Saturday]. It flip-flopped. The league is funny like that sometimes.”
“Great defense and even better offense,” Shawn Marion said of either the Hawks or Joe Johnson in the Dallas Morning News game story.
You may have seen this, but Toronto guard and former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack stopped during a game to tie his shoes while holding the ball. I’m not sure what’s worse, that he did it, or that the Bulls let him.
Game story from nba.com.
This is neither here nor there, but former Nebraska football coach Tom Osborne was on my plane from Dallas to Atlanta. I walked past him and knew I recognized him, but didn’t know who it was until someone who was on our plane walked by him after we got off and said, “Safe travels, Coach.”
I suppose you can take away my sports writer card for not recognizing him (there are plenty of other offenses to add to the list). The kind of funny thing is that he and his wife sat in coach. I asked him a couple questions in case our Tech writer could use it. He was cooperative.
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218 comments Add your comment
Daniel
December 8th, 2009
8:48 am
JeJe- This will be the last time I post anything on this subject with you. My statement was made in response to your statement that “LOL @THIS TEAM’S RECORD. WE HAVE A GARBAGE COACH THAT OVER USES THE STARTERS. WHAT A JOKE. THIS TEAM IS A TEASE” You of course based this assertion on the fact that Devin Harris and Brook Lopez would completely dominate the Hawks, Horford “self-proclaimed superstar” (can anyone tell me when Horford described himself as a superstar?) would be smacked around, etc…
I do realize the error of my ways in addressing anyone who posts in all caps. Clearly, I made a mistake there, and since you are not willing to remain civil, I would again ask you not to address me in the future.
Mike is back
December 8th, 2009
9:17 am
Truth-Serum, appreciate ya broooooooooooo. Ken is still holding out…but it appears ESPN is starting to buy in. lol
SEE YA @ THE BULLS GAME!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JeJe
December 8th, 2009
9:33 am
I assure you Horford thinks he’s a superstar
Clyde
December 8th, 2009
9:36 am
Dudes name is Northcyde not Northclyde.
KEN STRICKLAND FOR BLOGGER OF THE YEAR
TIM TEBOW FOR CRYBABY OF THE YEAR
FIRE WOODY
Ken Strickland
December 8th, 2009
10:13 am
NORTHCLYDE-talk about spinning it any way you want. What I actually said was you can’t use a 20gms sample to project the potential outcome for the entire season. I didn’t say you couldn’t use it to judge how the team was currently performing. And along those lines, how would you say the Hawks are currently performing? Do you judge them by the first 13gms(11-2), the last 7(3-4), or do you single out gms like the Toronto blowout(146pts) or the strong Dallas win and pretend everything else is fine, since we’re 14-6.
When we were winning 11 out of our first 13 gms, we were doing the following:
(1) Playing uptempo, pushing the ball and attacking the basket rather than settling for jumpshots and playing ISO and one on one.
(2) Scoring a lot of easy NBA leading fastbreak baskets, which allowed us to average 108PPG, which ranked 5th.
(3) Rank near the top of the NBA in RPG, APG and OFF RPG.
(4) Lead the NBA in pts in the paint, which were high percentage shots that allowed us to lead the NBA in shooting percentage.
(5) Effectively utilized a 10 man rotation that took pressure off the starters.
Starting with the loss against New Orleans, can you say we’ve come close to matching any of the above accomplishments? Do we ignore the fact we’ve suddenly done what amounts to a 180 degree turnaround in what we so successfully did during that streak. Because we’re 14-6, do we ignore the fact we’ve gone from averaging 108PPG during that 13gm stretch, to suddenly having trouble reaching 90pts.
Because we still have a winning record, do we pretend not to notice we’ve gone from leading the NBA in wins and other OFF categories to a stagnant, jumpshooting, ISO, one on one team that struggles to score and win. Because we’re 14-6 do we continue pretending not to notice how teams are now outrebounding and scoring more fastbreak and pts in the paint than us, while shooting a higher percentage. We were NBA leaders in these areas during our streak.
Do we pretend not to notice how Woodson has gone into his coaching shell and started to totally ignore his bench beyond a 7-8 man rotation. What about the fact he’s started to ride JJ’s back to the tune of 40+mpg just 20gms into the season. Hell, he’s already coaching scared. But that’s all right, because we’re 14-6.
After being 7gms removed from our solid, if not spectacular start, why can’t or won’t Woodson get the team back to doing the things that were done to get us off to that solid start? Why add fuel to the fire of our 7gms stetch of inconsistency and futility by continuing to do all of the things as a HC that has contributed to these types of lulls in the past?
BUT, ACCORDING TO SOME, WE HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. WOODSON IS DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB, AND WE’RE STILL 14-6, EVEN THOUGH WE’RE PLAYING POORLY IN EVERY PHASE OF THE GM AND STRUGGLING TO DEFEAT WEAK TEAMS AT HOME. AFTER ALL, WOODSON LED US TO THAT 11-2 EARLY SEASON MARK, AND ALL OF OUR CURRENT STRUGGLES CAN BE ATTRIBUTED JJ, MARVIN, HORFORD, BIBBY AND/OR SMOOVE, BUT NOT WOODSONS. THESE PLAYERS JUST GOT TIRED OF RUNNING, SCORING, REBOUNDING, PASSING, GOING INSIDE, DEFENDING, WINNING AND PLAYING AN UPTEMPO STYLE OF BALL AND DECIDED THEY WOULD MUCH RATHER PLAY WOODY BALL AND STRUGGLE IN EVERY PHASE OF THE GM. BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since we’re starting our 2nd set of 20gms, we’re due to immediately come out of our OFF/DEF funk and start another 7gm winning streak and win 11 out of 13. It can happen, especially if we pretend we’re still playing like the team that played the first 13gms instead of the current team that’s struggled to win 3 of the last 7.
ILL-logical
December 8th, 2009
10:28 am
An observation about the difference in the Hawk’s performance since the New Orleans game: that was when Bibby was injured and since then the team(read coach) has slowed the tempo down and been less active on defence.,prehaps in deference to his injury.
Ken Strickland
December 8th, 2009
10:59 am
ILL-LOGICAL-you’ve made an excellent point, and it goes straight to my comment about Woodson putting the limitations and/or asperations of certain players ahead of team interests. No thinking HC with any type of coaching ability would completely alter the entire OFF approach of a team that’s winning at an 11-2 clip and enjoying a 7gm winning streak would jeopodize all of that to accomodate an already slow footed PG when he has greased lightning on the bench in Teague. He should have benched Bibby and taken advantage of an excellent opportunity to give Teague some valuable time running a team that was dominating the NBA at the time.
A good HC will aways seize an opportunity to turn a negative into a positive, not make a bad situation worse. I have absolutely no doubt Woodson wants to win a badly as anyone associated with the gm. But, he seems obcessed with wanting to win with his players and team playing the halfcourt, jumpshooting, guard dominated, DEF minded style of ball he seems to value and cherish above all else, instead of the fastbreaking, uptempo, attacking style that results show favors his players and team.
I DON’T WANT HIM FIRED BECAUSE HE’S NOT A GOOD HC, BUT BECAUSE AT THIS POINT, HE’S PROVEN NOT TO BE A GOOD HC FOR THE HAWKS.
Jay
December 8th, 2009
12:46 pm
A few not-so-quick, not-very-short and not-too-random thoughts:
GM Rick Sund has made no secret of management desire to emulate the mid-2000’s version of the Detroit Pistons. I recall that their second unit (C Elden Campbell, F Mehmet Okur, F Corliss Williamson, G Mike James, and G Lindsey Hunter) came off the bench to start the second and fourth quarter of each game by playing a pressing, trapping and harassing type of defense led to easy baskets which often got them back into games when they were trailing or turned small lead into a big one. In short, that second unit was a major reason for their success. If the Hawks’ second unit does none of these things, how can they really emulate those Pistons?
Now that the Hawks know they’ll make the playoffs this year, I would like to see them open the second and fourth quarters of the next ten to twenty games with Morris at Center, Joe Smith and Othello Hunter at forward with Jamal Crawford and Jeff Teague at guard. Give this unit 3-6 minutes each half, employ that pressing, trapping and harrassing type of defense and let’s see what they can do. Develop the bench now and it could pay great dividends later; especially if Morris develops into a true low-post presence.
Speaking of a low-post presence, no team wins a championship without one. Now before anyone mentions Jordan’s Bulls, let me remind you that guys like Bill Cartwright, Artis Gilmore, and Luc Longley gave them a low-post “presence”. When Joe Smith is your best low-post presence—and he’s on your second unit—you really have no low-post presence; and no shot to win a title.
On this blog, there are some have used statistics to prove their position. What’s the old saying about lies and statistics? For every stat about someone being a good player or coach, there’s another stat that gives credence to the opposite position. Using stats to justify a position is about as useful as hitching a plow to a cat—you may be able to do it but you won’t get much accomplished.
For those advocating Mike Woodson for Coach of the Year, be careful of what you wish for. Consider this: of the last five Coach of the Year winners, four (D’Antoni, Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Byron Scott) have been fired less than three years after winning the award and last year’s winner-Mike Brown-is on the hot seat this year.
Speaking of Woodson, and with apologies to Shakespeare, to keep him or not to keep him; that is the question; one that has evoked strong opinions on either side of the issue on this blog. There are those who say he should be retained because his players hold him in high regard. OK–but name me one player in his right mind who is going to say anything negative about his Head Coach–the person in control of playing time—in a setting where those words could get back to the Head Coach; landing him on the bench or in the doghouse. Don’t rush—I’ll wait. You won’t find out the truth about him from his players until after he’s gone—much like you don’t find out about how badly your girlfriend was cheating on you until after the two of you break up.
For those who think he should be retained because of his record, consider this: Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown were both fired after 50-win seasons; by that same Detroit franchise that GM Rick Sund holds in such high regard.
Here’s the true measure of a coach: does he pass the eye-ball test. By that I mean, does he do all of the things we associate with good coaches. Does his team display a consistency in their offensive and defensive approaches to the game? Does his team seek to impose its will on their opponents or does his team play to the level of its competition? Does his approach create roles for his players that emphasize their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses? Do his players accept their roles in his system and stay within them? Does he maximize his team’s chances to win by making the appropriate in-game adjustments? Does he delegate properly–managing the game itself while letting his assistants coach the offensive and defensive strategies? Do young players know they will get an opportunity to play, in order to develop within the team’s system, secure in the knowledge that they’ll still get playing team when they make the mistakes all young players make in order to learn and grow? Does he command respect from the opposition?
In other words, if you didn’t know anything about him, his personality, the personalities of the players on his team or his record, and you just watch his team’s performance, would you honestly say that his team is a well-coached squad? That’s the eyeball test and should be the only factor Sund uses when deciding whether Woodson should be retained–especially after six years.
FYI–Adrian Dantley (followed years later by Mark Aguirre) was the low-post offensive presence in the starting line-up for Chuck Daly’s Pistons of the late 80’s-early 90’s while the defensive low-post presence Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn gave the team its Bad Boy image. 7”1” C James Edwards gave the second unit an offensive low-post presence while combining with John Salley and Dennis Rodman for a defensive low-post presence.
Truth-Serum
December 8th, 2009
1:00 pm
Jay
Truth-Serum
December 8th, 2009
1:04 pm
A very long winded expose, but its wrong. Player coaches squawks are legendary. No These players are happy and enjoy playing for woodson. Excellent chemistry.
Sorry.
Truth-Serum
December 8th, 2009
1:05 pm
player/coaches squawks
Truth-Serum
December 8th, 2009
1:09 pm
FYI weve already said that and we were talking about the championship pistons not the non champions.
Truth-Serum
December 8th, 2009
1:11 pm
I guess youd like to think that you covered both sides but you did not. You only made the case for his getting fired. Whatever.
northcyde
December 8th, 2009
3:20 pm
And the name is northcyde . . . as in side = cyde. Not northclyde. LOL @ clyde pointing that out.
EXTEND WOODY
northcyde
December 8th, 2009
3:37 pm
I hope my comments aren’t being censored on here. I thought my long winded post was a good one? I’ve posted it twice, but I don’t even see it.
LOL . . this is why I stay on the Squawk.
Fundamentals
December 8th, 2009
4:06 pm
I’m lovin the ability of this team to grind out clutch wins on the road, we just gotta work on professoinalism when we’re playing scrubs.
I think our team does have an identity, though it’s inconistent.
We are going to be a 3 or 4 seed.
We need the 1/2 court game as much as we need the run & gun. It’ll provide balance in the playoffs.
Bibby has reponded well to Crawford & Teague. Props to him for seeming to like the transistion. Maybe a player coach in 3 years?
Al is showing alot of development on offense. Keep up the intensity on D!
2nd unit looked very nice against Dallas. I thought Woody should’ve left them out there longer.
Josh says he learned alot and he’s grown up, but he’s still got a binky and a blanket at times. Last few games have been difficult to watch in terms of his play. Stepping up to manhood = ALLSTAR!
Marvin seems to be plugging in more. I liked his effort of late. It’s not always points, but he is contributing again.
Joe looked like a captain and an All-Star against Dallas. Good shoulders to ride on again. Thanks!
Woody – Trust the bench, encourage the D and rebounding.
Joe Smith – as influential as Crawford of late.
ZaZa – needs to get his fire again. Better effort, but we’ve seen better Z!
Teague – seems to be settling in more. I liked his effort of late and it seems Woody does too.
Moe – just play D, we need your 3’s as much as we need Josh’s.
Randmo – I’m a believer this year. Get in the game!
Collins – How much are the all you can eat seats bro?
Hunter – I wish you’d show up in uniform someday. Seems to be a bigger waste than leaving Collins shipwrecked on the bench.
I still think we’ll win 55 games, possibly more if we grow up and become consistent after Christmas.
No All-Stars = Much needed rest for our starters!
Fundamentals
December 8th, 2009
4:08 pm
Noah’s going to need an ark to withstand Horford’s storm!
ken
December 9th, 2009
11:23 am
It really does not matter how many wins the Hawks improve because that should not be the goal. The goal is winning in the playoffs and untilmately winning the championship. Yes , they will win more games in the regular season but unless they make move to get a starting center and move Horford to power forward, they will lose in the second round because this key thing. Are there any word about trying to trade for a center or are the Hawks content to win a few more games and make to the playoffs?