Got it out of your system?
Somewhere over Alabama or Mississippi – I’m on my way to Dallas. It struck me as odd that I’ll be in Atlanta and Dallas today, but am covering neither the SEC or Big 12 championship.
Anyway, my quick take on the New York loss. Obviously, losing Josh Smith was huge, in that the starters burned more minutes than they would have, and the Knicks went at the basket with relative impunity. The Knicks shot 30/41 in the lane for 60 PIP – tying the season high against the Hawks – and the Hawks only blocked two shots, a season low. I don’t think it’s beyond the scope of reason to say that the Hawks would have won with Smith but I’d also say the Hawks still should have won anyway. They realized a little late that Al Horford and Joe Johnson were the answers offensively.
I don’t have an answer about how the Hawks could have protected the rim better. You’d think Woodson would have tried Joe Smith in the middle or Jeff Teague on Chris Duhon. I didn’t get to ask Woodson last night, but my suspicions would be that he’d say that Smith would have been a matchup problem against New York’s small ball and that he’d rather have Bibby than Teague in against the Knicks because he wanted to control the pace and Teague can’t do that like Bibby can and that Mo Evans was his attempt to slow down Duhon. Hopefully I can get an answer about that this evening.
As far as the various complaints about the switching defense, I’m not so sure it’s as easy as saying, “O.K., let’s stop switching and play straight up.” Maybe it is, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t think so. I think maybe the answer Friday wasn’t the defensive system, just the way it was executed. (which isn’t exactly comforting, either.)
I forget who said this in the game thread, but whoever said that this maybe is just who the Hawks are may be on to something. They may just be a good but not great team. That said, the Knicks beat the Suns earlier this week and they nearly beat Boston, and the Dallas team that everyone expects to pound the Hawks lost to Memphis Friday. That doesn’t exactly justify the Hawks losing to New York, but if you’re going to say “The Hawks are terrible; they lost to New York, New Orleans and Detroit,” how do you explain them beating Boston, Portland, Miami and Denver?
I don’t like saying this because it’s cliche, but it’s probably also true. The Hawks aren’t as good as some of you thought they were during the seven-game run, and they’re not as bad as some of you think they are now.
One other thing – while I agree to a point with many of you about Johnson’s shot selection, last night it seemed like it was the only thing working in the second half. He was 9 for 13 in the second half. The rest of the team was 11 for 26.
Anyway, let’s see what Saturday night brings. I think what the Hawks are hoping for is that everyone brings their pocket TV’s to the game to watch Texas-Nebraska and Josh Smith brings a full steam of redemption to the arena.
It’s obviously going to be a bear. Jason Kidd-Mike Bibby could be problematic, certainly, though I’m not going to vouch for Kidd’s defensive ability, either.
One other thing that I just find kind of funny – for those of you who lambaste Marvin Williams, here’s what I don’t get: You rip him up and down (which is your right as a fan), but then I read these fanciful trade proposals. I’m not here to stick up for him or attack him, but I’m just asking, if he’s as ineffective as you think he is, what makes you think another NBA team is going to want him? I swear, I think I read someone saying the Hawks should trade him for Chris Bosh.
Lastly, hopefully I’ll get the chance today to check back on all your predictions for the Hawks’ 10-game stretch that ends against Dallas. I’ll try to have something up when I get it done.
Enjoy your Saturdays, everyone.
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377 comments Add your comment
nunna yo buzinezz
December 6th, 2009
12:07 am
yo,we’re not haters…we just know a bad coach when we see one..this team wins,in spite of its coaching..
Truth-Serum
December 6th, 2009
12:09 am
That makes sense. put 10 players out there, sit down and instant wins, no coaching necessary. I see your point. Thank,I hadnt thought about it that way.
Melvin
December 6th, 2009
12:11 am
Greg Oden out for the year again…(knee) my goodness. if it wasnt for bad luck, this kid wouldnt have any…
Truth-Serum
December 6th, 2009
12:11 am
nunna yo buzinezz there’s a coaching vacancy in New Orleans if you are interested
Now you know
December 6th, 2009
12:25 am
A night after one of their worst efforts of the season, the Hawks rallied against a Mavericks team that last season went 32-9 at the American Airlines Center. They continued their run of success against the league’s upper echelon. Among the Hawks’ 13 wins are defeats of Denver, Boston, Miami, Houston, a sweep of Portland and now Dallas.
Johnson poured in 31 points, while Smith added a key nine points, six of them in the fourth quarter. Forward Marvin Williams grabbed a career-high 15 rebounds.
In a team meeting on Saturday morning, coach Mike Woodson admonished his players for their shoddy defense against the Knicks Friday night, showing them tape of their various lapses and what the coach said was a lack of pride in guarding the ball.
“We’re not doing the things we need to do to win games,” Woodson said before the game.
Blast
December 6th, 2009
12:52 am
Grandad. I want to be elite now!
But you have to understand, and appreciate where the Hawks are coming from and where they have been 3 years from now when they were bottom of the league. Out of all the elite teams in the league, the Hawks have the cheapest payroll. Which means they are right now gettin a biggers bang for their buck. Will extrapolate later, but hitting the sack now.
Ken Strickland
December 6th, 2009
1:07 am
I’m starting to feel pity for those remaining WOODY LOVERS, like TRUTH SERUM, who continue trying to conjure up one weak minded excuse after another to try and justify their support for Woodson’s inconsistency as the Hawks HC. This clown is trying to stretch that rubber band of support to its limit. Woodson was so bad last night old TRUTH SERUM couldn’t even muster up a response, at least not in his name. Tonight, he gives us this weak imitation of a Woodson believer because we won, even though he knows Woody didn’t do anything.
It’s really sad when his most ardent supporters, who are deep in denial, are reduced to complimenting the fact he didn’t make enough ill advised decisions to cost us the win.
Did anyone else notice that 3 of Horford’s 5 fouls came while he was on the perimeter trying to defend a guard? Dallas took full advantage of that switching DEF to get our Bigs in foul trouble and stay in the gm by going to the FT line. If Woodson gave Teague the 54mins he’s given Bibby over the last 2gms, do you think Teague would have any trouble scoring 8pts, on 3 of 15 shooting, and getting 7rebs, 8ast and 1stl?
Wabe
December 6th, 2009
1:09 am
Elite, average, mediocore, doesn’t really mean much to me. Those are all just meaningless labels at this point. For me, the Hawks have to prove they can beat quality opponents this season, and not just at home, but on the road. Every team loses games – unfortunately for the Hawks, some of their losses have been head-scratchers. However, with that said, the Hawks have piled up wins against some pretty good ball clubs this season – and more importantly, they’ve demonstrated the ability to win against quality opponents on the road. Dallas is a tough arena to play in, and Atlanta demonstrated poise and perseverance in tonites game. 7 + minutes without a bucket. Although we were right there, things were not looking good – and in the back of my mind, it seemed that the Hawks would potentially roll over after that drought. But, they came back out in the second half and kept on grindin’. Great effort.
Winning is great. Winning on the road is just much more satisfying. Regardless of what seed the Hawks wind up with going into the post-season (and I know it’s still early), it won’t mean as much as it has in the past. We’re proving to be a much tougher team when going on the road than we’ve been in years past – which is a good thing for a team looking to make a deep post-season run.
RLP
December 6th, 2009
1:27 am
I was unable to respond last night after a terrible loss to the Knicks. There has been a great deal of discussion about Woody in the aftermath of that loss. Within this blog it is difficult to judge exactly what the composition of his apologist, his detractors and those who are still on the fence about his coaching ability is. I am still on the fence. His detractors certainly come out of the woodwork after a loss. There are also others who have been totally consistent in criticizing him whether the team wins or losses. The reverse is also true. Some bloggers are passionate defenders who are ready to defend him at all times. Some prefer to wait until the team goes on a hot streak before showing their true feelings. I think the number of people on this blog who are still not ready to pronounce a decision on him grow fewer and fewer all of the time. It is hard to maintain that viewpoint. But that is still where I am. For those who think it is time to replace him I have only one point right now. The Hawks have played exactly 20 games. With an 82 game schedule we are at the quarter point of the season. The team has a winning percentage of .700%. If the team were to keep up this level of success for an entire season they would win 57 of 82 games during the regular season. NO HAWKS TEAM HAS EVER WON MORE THAN 57 GAMES DURING THE HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE. I say this without trying to defend Woody’s coaching except to the extent that I find it ironic that the coach who is on that pace has drawn as much fire as this coach has drawn.
We are in December. What this team will become during this season has not yet been determined. I suggested that the rhetoric be toned down and was criticized for making that suggestion because it was interpreted as trying to stifle debate. So I withdraw that suggestion. Shout out loud all you want about how terrible the coach is. But if this team develops like I think they have the potential to develop then I am really going to enjoy some of you as you backtrack from the limb you are on.
And if they fail to live up to expectations then Woody’s supporters will have no basis for arguing for his retention.
Having said that I will also agree that if the team does improve to a new level that does not mean that the coach will be recognized by his detractors. After all if the ownership of this club would just fire this sorry pretender and bring in a real coach like Lon Kruger or Bob Weiss we would have really been in the clover. From my standpoint that is the elephant in the room that no one mentions when they call for firing Woody. You just don’t know if a successor would be an improvement or a detriment to the team’s success.
A true Hawks fan
December 6th, 2009
2:04 am
Most of you just know Woody as a coach, but if you ever get an opportunity to meet him you will be blessed to meet one of the nicest men. Some people may not like his coaching style, but coaching is just one part of this man. He has come a long way from that kid in Indianapolis. He is a good example for our young men in professional sports, when it comes to taking care of business,after sports. So don’t just look at one part of the man, but look at the whole man. A damn good man who beat the odds. God had a hand in this one.
Stats that matter
December 6th, 2009
2:19 am
The Knicks shot 30/41 in the lane for 60 PIP – tying the season high against the Hawks – and the Hawks only blocked two shots, a season low.
The hawks could use a assertive center.
AN ANALYSIS THAT MATTERS
December 6th, 2009
2:42 am
CREDIT RLP
With an 82 game schedule we are at the quarter point of the season. The team has a winning percentage of .700%. If the team were to keep up this level of success for an entire season they would win 57 of 82 games during the regular season. NO HAWKS TEAM HAS EVER WON MORE THAN 57 GAMES DURING THE HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE. I say this without trying to defend Woody’s coaching except to the extent that I find it ironic that the coach who is on that pace has drawn as much fire as this coach has drawn.
We are in December. What this team will become during this season has not yet been determined. I suggested that the rhetoric be toned down and was criticized for making that suggestion because it was interpreted as trying to stifle debate. So I withdraw that suggestion. Shout out loud all you want about how terrible the coach is. But if this team develops like I think they have the potential to develop then I am really going to enjoy some of you as you backtrack from the limb you are on.
And if they fail to live up to expectations then Woody’s supporters will have no basis for arguing for his retention.
Having said that I will also agree that if the team does improve to a new level that does not mean that the coach will be recognized by his detractors. After all if the ownership of this club would just fire this sorry pretender and bring in a real coach like Lon Kruger or Bob Weiss we would have really been in the clover. From my standpoint that is the elephant in the room that no one mentions when they call for firing Woody. You just don’t know if a successor would be an improvement or a detriment to the team’s success.
(JUST FOR THE RECORD THIS TEAM IS PROJECTED TO BE SEEDED 4TH-7TH AND WIN 47-52 GAMES, ANY THING LESS IS A NON SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN, ANYTHING MORE WOULD BE A BANNER SEASON.)
LET THE SEASON PLAY OUT!
INQUIRING MIND
December 6th, 2009
2:44 am
HOW DO YOU DEBATE HATE? ARGUE WITH WILLFUL IGNORANCE?
dap01
December 6th, 2009
5:47 am
How can someone as good as Joe Johnson be so bad? Pound, Pound, Ignore teammates, pound, pound, pound. Joe is only interested in himself apparantly. Pound, pound, pound. Ignore, Ignore.
Woody has lost the team. The great early passing of the season is history.
Pound, Pound, Pound.
Clyde
December 6th, 2009
5:51 am
Hey Ken have you seen Samuel around lately? I heard him and Tebow were hanging out last night in Centenial Park hugged up crying.
FIRE WOODY
Clyde
December 6th, 2009
6:02 am
Championship #22. Its a good day to roll wit the Tide.
FIRE WOODY
nunna yo buzinezz
December 6th, 2009
7:05 am
u know what truth-serum?
i bet i would get that job before woody would..lol..
no lie..
i would develope my youngsters,and my bench.
i would put my opponents in mismatches every game.
i would have had players like josh smith playing the way he is playing now,3 years ago.
i would put my team 1st,and not 1 or 2 individual players like this coach does.
therefore,i would not be afraid to sit a starter and replace them with a bench player to give us more of an advantage if i felt my starter would not give us that edge..
i know how to draw up plays..
i would get my team to play,inside/out.
i would stress total team defense,and if my starters are not producing,i would not hesitate to sit them.
i know how to draw up plays..
i would be,the things that this coach knows nothing of,or never could be..
my teams would win by me putting them in position to win,instead of winning in spite of my horrible coaching..
and most of all,i would be consistent in winning..
so,hey,i’ll put my name in the hat against woody anyday,anytime,anywhere..
nunna yo buzinezz
December 6th, 2009
7:37 am
a true hawks fan,
that was beautiful..and i believe that u have some kind of knowledge of them man off the court more than any of us on here.
im sure he has come a long way and that the lord has blessed him,look at where he is now..
an nba coach,former nba player,a nice collegiate player as well..and,a wonderful loving father..i know of him thru the ties that he had at his girls high school,and the practices they held there before..
off the court,he is a nice guy..
on the court he is a nice guy as well..but,with all that being said,he should know better in his decisions that he makes,but he does not..
he is lazy in the head..
he does not know that relying on his starters to play 40+ minutes a game every year,(when he would reply that the reason he does it is because he does not have a bench,every year)is a sign that he does not know what he has and he,nor his coaching staff,are not up to the capabilities of developing his bench or his youth(i.e…teague,hunter)..
i know its frustrating for u to see the comments that i and others have about coach woodson,when you know another side..i know..
but,its frustrating for us,as hawks fans,to see that he does not see his mistakes and that he will be the ultimate downfall if this team does not meet expectations that they have,and even he has set..
his excuse every year is that he does not have a bench..well,he had a decent one last year that he did nothing with..and this year he has a better one,than he did last year..
his starters,do not need to jell..they have..they are not gonna get any better than they are now..we know who they are and what they can do..they are who we thought,no let me correct that,they are who we know they are..
his job is to incorporate the others on his team to make them ONE FINE UNIT!!
not putting them in and they look lost after 50 games because of lack of playing time..
and,we’re use to seeing that from his coaching philosophy,and it purely stinks..it really does..
he would have more people behind him if we would see him using the bench and trying to develope players during the season,and then if they are not doing what he says they should and not only the fans but the front office would see it,then,he would have a case and the burden would not be on him but the GM,and we would be behind this coach…
some players are just gamers..they are game players,and you might not see a lot of what they can do in practice..
chris paul,derron williams,aaron brooks are the new up and coming stars in the nba..do u think we would have heard of them and what they bring to there teams if they played under your beloved coach woodson..
H3LL NAW WE WOULDN’T!!
there are a lot of nice people who beat the odds and make it in everyday life,and coach woodson is one of them..
but,if you want to keep your job and food on your table,you have to take a look at yourself and ask yourself if your doing all that you can do??
i don’t think so..with the hard road he had to climb,he should be the 1st to open up doors (and playing time) to others,and not show one person more attention than others..
HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!
BUT,HE COACHES LIKE HE DON’T…
COY
December 6th, 2009
8:50 am
“A true Hawks fan”, “Stats that matter”, “AN ANALYSIS THAT MATTERS” and “INQUIRING MIND” = Truth-Serum. Same line and style of comments = same blogger. Pro-Woodson, anti-Horford campain going on…
Saint Richt
December 6th, 2009
9:01 am
Fire Mike Woodson………………
kwooden1
December 6th, 2009
9:47 am
Listening to the game again last night, I think it was a great WIN! After a tough loss to NY at home, winning a back to back, against a good team that wanted to redeem itself is big. I think this win will help the team take another step towards maturing. I still feel that 2nd half let down to Orlando is still playing with their heads, so a win like this can push that further in the back of their minds. The Toronto game can show them how good they are if their playing well, and this game shows them that they can win even if they’re playing poorly.
I think overall Woody’s substitutions were good and from what I heard did a good job of keeping Smoove in check. **BONE** I would have done the Horford for Smoove substitution late because bring in Zaza wouldn’t have helped. Dampier and Dirk are bad match-ups for Zaza. Especially in the pick-and-roll with Dirk. Horford is a smart player, he wouldn’t foul himself out on dumb play, like the dumb play Smoove did to get his 5th foul.
With 3 days off these guys can get some rest and get back focused. Bibby’s shot will be fine, 0-5 from 3 is a once in a new moon for him. Marvin’s starting to find himself, 15 boards is great for him mentally. Hopefully he will begin to better understand what he can do if he’s not getting shots. I think once Crawford understands his dual role better (playing PT and SG) he’s shot will come back.
GO HAWKS!!
icecold
December 6th, 2009
10:46 am
i think the hawks are the 3rd best team in the league!!! only people that can truly beat them is lakers, and orlando.. which is the two teams that was in the championship last year, if they can find a answer for them. then they will be the best in the league… ima true hawks fan.. but they can compete with those two teams, its just clutch time im worried about..
the hawks will beat out boston for that third seed in the east.. boston does not have a answer for them now. they are not quick enough to guard all five of our starting five when we a run and gun team… and they do not have a deffensive answer for josh smith… period..
and we can beat cleveland for that second spot, if we can stop shaq without playing hack a shaq!!!!
and if the hawks get home court advantage through out the play offs.. then they will win the title!!!!
that is all
icecold
December 6th, 2009
11:10 am
also…. people say trade marvin for a somebody!!!!…if we don’t want him.. why would anybody else want him.. unless somebody like chris bosh begs to go to the hawks, then i can see marvin and zaza going to Toronto.. but we cant trade zaza, we just gave him a big contract.. so u cant pair anybody on the bench with marvin for a trade…. and trading two starters for anybody in the league (anybody!!!!) will not be worth it…. so ask your self.. would it really be worth trading marvin?……. and besides, when he is not scoring, u forget how good of a defensive player he is ….. and besides!!! he is a 6-9 small forward who can shoot and go to the basket on good days!!! and he is quick on his feet…… the stupidest thing u can do is trade marvin!!!!!
and he is still young… amaging when he is in his prime.. u gotta think of a future that might not have joe johnson!!!!! because he still havent signed that contract!!!! so….. yeah.. he might be needed more then you think!!!
also….. he is not taking that many shots a game to get into a rhythm to score twenty points a game.. who have too many scorers already!!! that can score at will.. which means somebody out the starting five has to be very unselfish…. and that is marvin… he takes about 10 shots a game.. compared to everybody else, that is nothing…..
also, mike bibby is under rated… he should have already been a all star… he led the kings to all those play offs, and now since he came to the hawks, he has stabilized the team to a point where nobody is questioning the point guard position no more for the hawks, like they use to always do…. and he is running the team and have a winning record… underrated …….
that is all!!!
ILL-logical
December 6th, 2009
11:23 am
After reading some of the comments on the Dallas Morning News Mavs blog, I am not as concerned about the comments on this blog: if you took out the name Carlyle(sp) and inserted Woodson, the blogs would be almost identical.
An observation on last night’s game in Dallas: the Mavs are a much older team( Dirk=34,JT=31,Damp=33,Kidd= 36) and their legs were not there on the second game of a back to back. The Hawks defensive effort helped some as well.
My pet peeve about pro sports in general and the Hawks specifically is the cascade of comments like ..we didn’t have any energy tonight… we were not on the same page… we aren’t communicating out there.. . What the %^&* are you being paid to do? I know that the NBA is a player’s league and if, for example,LBJ wanted a new coach, Mike Brown would be history in a heartbeat. But at some point, someone has to say enough! If you play hard and well as both an individual and a teamate, then you get minutes but if you don’t then no matter who you are , you won’t get minutes.
A pipe dream for sure but it has to happen some day and I say why not here and soon?
Sautee
December 6th, 2009
11:33 am
Truth-serum said:
“I have as much confidence in the players as Woodson does. ”
Except for Horford of course.
Ken Strickland
December 6th, 2009
11:44 am
RLP-another excellent comment, and I understand exactly where you’re coming from. Woodson has demonstrated on more that one occassion that he knows how to do the things as a HC that makes this team better, but for some unknown reason he refuses to do them with consistency.
As soon as I direct on point comments at TRUTH SERUM, and they hit a nerve, we suddenly start seeing all of these other names appearing and displaying an extremely low level of ignorance, vulgarity and sickness. There are times when he actually engages in intelligent discourse, but as most of us already know, THERE’S A THIN LINE BETWEEN GENUIS AND INSANITY, AND THIS FOOL PROOVES THAT THEORY CORRECT.
I have to agree that the word HATE is overused on these blogs. There are a lot of us that don’t have any personal feelings for or against Woodson, or certain players, but some definitely do. I feel these individuals are in the minority. I really liked Woodson as a player and got to get an idea of the kind of person he was back then. The demeanor and attitude he displays as a HC is totally different from the demeanor that was displayed by MWoodson the player. I wanted the Hawks to acquire him because he was so fundamentally sound.
Having been a fan of his as a player, I was really excited when he was hired as our HC. I thought he’d bring the same attitude, fundamentals and consistency to the Hawks that he displayed as a player. I guess not seeing enough of those attributes is why I’ve become so disappointed with his change in demeanor, the seemingly rigid approach, as well as the unevenness and inconsistency in which he deals with players and the overall team.
Our team is now reflecting all of those issues. When we play quality teams, which is easy for the players to get fired up for, we play the way we’re capable of playing and usually win. When we play teams that are definitely not quality teams, we tend to go playground, and usually lose.
Here’s an example of that inconsistency with players. Smoove gets ejected after 13mins and leaves us short at PF, yet Zaza gets only 15.36mins and Joe Smith, his backup, gets only 4:50mins in a loss to an inferior Knicks team at home. We play a hot Mavericks team on the road and Joe Smith gets 18:33mins and makes several key plays that sealed the win for us. With a short roster Joe Smith get 4:50mins and with a full roster he suddenly gets almost as many mins as he and Zaza got the night before combined. Couldn’t we have used that performance, and couldn’t he have used the extended mins against the Knicks as well?
How in the hell can any HC think he can just ignore his bench players for periods at a time, or give them inconsistent mins and/or opportunities and still expect them to perform consistently everytime? Common sense should tell him that if his starters aren’t performing consistently, like Bibby and JJ recently, how does he think getting consistency from an inconsistently utilized bench player be as simple as pushing a damn button? And explain the logic behind punishing all bench players with extended bench time, except JCrawford and maybe Zaza, if they don’t perform up to expectations when given a limited opportunity? And explain doing the same thing to a player(RandMo) that has actually performed very well in 2 very limited opportunities? We certainly could have used his inside scoring threat/ability against the Knicks and Mavericks when we went perimeter and couldn’t buy a basket.
The early season winning streak and beating the Mavericks on the road won’t coverup the problems we have. We still have problems with inconsistency, underutilization of talent and our bench, faultly strategy, or no strategy at all, not committing to a definitive style of play, not creating or taking advantage of matchups(strategy), a DEF philosophy that puts our players in disadvantageous matchups, inflexibility, lack of imagination, no committment to or strategy for the development and effective utilization of young players, a double standard in the treatment of players, too many excuses and too much of the blame gm from Woodson.
I absolutely love the way this team and it’s players have managed to overcome all of these issues and maintained a winning record over the last 2yrs. I’d love to see Sund or Woodson take those burdens off their collective backs and watch them fly straight to the top of the Eastern conference.
Mz. Hawkdafied
December 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
Truth-Serum and Ken Strickland both of you guys make good points for or against Coach Mike Woodson. Now can you guys both agree to disagree. Neither of you guys appear stupid to me for voicing what you feel strongly about. I however have a problem with Truth-Serum telling anybody to shut the fck up. If comments on this blog is ruining your season then take a break from it. Plain and simple. One thing I really think all of us on this blog can agree on is that both the players and coach have been consistently inconsistent. That’s why it’s hard to categorize them. Because sometimes the players/coach appear like they can stump with the big dogs (Lakers and Boston)/(Cleveland and Orlando for me or not on Boston’s nor LA’s level neither has titles). And other times players/coach, well, just suck. The Hawks and their coach are like a box of chocolates, you just never know what you’re going to get.
Just like the players/coach, the fans as a whole are consistently inconsistent on their support on showing up at the Highlight Factory. Guess the ATL Hawks nation is one big happy consistently inconsistent family.
