Comments on: Hawks-Pistons

By: niremetal

niremetal — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:27:53 +0000

Grandad,

Due to BYC rules, Marvin’s salary from another team’s perspective would be $7.5M but from our perspective it is his old salary ($5.6M). The NBA requires the salaries in any trade to roughly equal each other (specifically, they must be within 125% + $100,000) when both teams are over the cap. Right now, every team in the NBA except Oklahoma City, Memphis, and Minnesota is over the cap – and Memphis and Minnesota have so little cap space that virtually any addition of salary would put them over the cap Thus, in order for a trade with any team but OKC to fit within the NBA rules, we would have to package Marvin with a relatively high-salary player in order to make the salaries high enough that the salaries in the trade from both teams’ perspective would be within 125% of each other. The magic number is ~$15M, which means we would have to package Marvin along with other players whose salary totals $8M or more and get back roughly $15M in salaries from the other team so that the margin of error is within the 125% range.

In other words, we couldn’t just trade Marvin straight up. We’d have to package him either with one of our 3 other high-salary guys (Jamal, JJ, or Josh) or else some combination of players whose salaries would equal ~$7.6M (and the only 2-player combinations we have whose salaries would be high enough are Bibby/Mo, Bibby/Zaza, Bibby/Horford, Bibby/Teague, or Zaza/Horford). So any trade this year involving Marvin wouldn’t be a simple matter. It would involve trading away Marvin plus one of our three best players or Marvin plus two key rotation players.

By: Grandad

Grandad — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:58:16 +0000

I can’t remember who said what but here goes. Josh has all the tools to play the [3]. We switch like crazy anyway so don’t worry about help defense. A player can switch even when in help pos. so if we wanted we could constantly keep him in help pos. If he truly wants to be def. player of the yr. then playing the [3] is where that will happen [Battier]. Ill-logical, I apologize but I admit that I’m a little too dense to comprehend all that you said.

I’m with ds on Biedrins – niremetal exactly what restrictions are there on trading Marv. PLEASE understand I’m not advocating the trade of Marv, just reacting to your statement, which I don’t keep up with all the trade restrictions,etc.

I think some of you are not understanding all that Fundamentals is saying.

Josh and Joe are both well rounded players which fill up the stat sheet.
Both have strengths and weaknesses (Joe-reb./Josh-Foul shooting). I’m glad we have both. However, if it ever becomes clear that JOE is leaving, then we must move him (before tr. deadline if pos). Yes, Joe has been playing differently this yr. and one can only speculate as to the cause.

I am a proponent of Big Al moving to the [4]. That does not make me a critic of Al. He is a victim of circumstances.

niremetal: *Purely for fun and speculation as I doubt Mr. Sund reads what I have to say for ideas, but what would have to occur for a Biedrins trade prior to deadline. (particularly Marv) I do disagree that we should only trade Marv for a [3]. We have options within our team now but that’s a can of worms for later.

By: Fundamentals

Fundamentals — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:31:45 +0000

All good. No worries here. Hopefully they’ll get it together tonight and we can get back to being excited for once.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:23:24 +0000

Fundamentals- bring back down now. I haven’t said anything to personally attack you. Let me assure you that I watch every single Hawks game, most of the home games from the stands. Let me also assure that I do know basketball and have watched and played A LOT of basketball. We can disagree about Joe’s performance, but do not insult my b-ball love, commitment or insight.
You said that Joe’s struggles, WHICH ARE OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE OVER THE LAST 4-5 GAMES, are due to him being selfish and insecure. I say that he was having a bad shooting night and trying to do what your shooting guard is supposed to do which is continue to shoot. Clearly the team plays better when the ball is moving, which is true for every single basketball team since the begining of time, so I didn’t think I needed to restate the obvious.
The results of the season are obvious, excellent overall performance, with a recent spate of poor play from EVERYONE including Joe.
I just disagree that the root of the poor play is Joe’s supposed insecurity and selfishness.

Are we clear?

By: Fundamentals

Fundamentals — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:56:33 +0000

Daniel – Is stats all that matters? Do you actually watch every game? I don’t care if his assists doubled, it’s all in the flow of the game. The guy is pounding and forcing. Our “superior” guards shoot us out of the game night after night. We have no consistent inside game. Josh and Al are the keys to our offense. Mix Marvin in with shots he’s comfortable with and get out of this pound the ball, ditch for a shot clock ending 3 or JJ getting packed and turning the ball over. I guess your next email will be about JJ’s turnovers over the past few seasons. Watch the game. It’s obvious to my wife who has only watched basketball a few years.

We have a team with no real superstar. Thus we need a well rounded team game. Our team should run when they can and committ to Al & Josh when they can’t. As the inside establishes itself the outside shots will come much easier and thus we start killing folks. Watch our wins, watch or defeats and tell me it’s not obvious what’s happening.

Or you can read all this and start a blog like Ken with no real insight. Were you two at the Falcons game Sunday. You two missed an easy chance to learn what I’m talking about.

By: Ken Strickland

Ken Strickland — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:51:34 +0000

If you read the excellent and diverse comments that’s been posted over the last couple of hours, you’ll see why it would be crazy to try and limit anyone’s involvement, especially if their comments are constructive, serious, intelligent, civil and well presented, and that’s not a reference to grammar.

I also love this forum because these diverse ideas are presented in diverse ways. While I’m an in your face type of person, others present their opinions in a less direct manner, but are certainly no less effective in their presentation. I basically see 2 things that hold most of us together. (1)We’re all Hawk fans that want the best for the team, and (2)we all know the team could and should be doing better.

And like some of you, I’m starting to suffer from withdrawal anxiety waiting for tonights gm. GO HAWKS!!!!!!

By: I MUS WRITE

I MUS WRITE — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:47:29 +0000

Really Daniel……. You think JJ is a better OVERALL player than Josh. JJ is a better shooter/scorer but Josh fills a stat sheet night in and night out-Think about it steals,assists,blocked shots,rebounding on top of 14-20 pts a game. JJ is our best offensive player maybe-but u could even argue that Crawford scores easier and without the constant pounding of the ball
Sundays game shows me that if JJ has an off night he will continue to shoot and sell the team out instead of passing and gettn other guys invloved- When his shot was’nt falling what else did he provide ….not much. All in all he is still ourr leader and will do what he wants -because he knows the Coach has raisins for testicles.

By: niremetal

niremetal — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:45:28 +0000

Fair enough, Daniel. I don’t think Azubuike would give us what we need at the 3, though, even when healthy. Bringing him in would really amount to shifting Joe to the 3 and starting him at 2, because that usually will be better than trying the reverse. I definitely agree that he’s an upgrade over Mo, but my point in bringing Mo up was that I don’t think Azubuike has the height to be even a poor man’s AK47, because the most unique thing about AK is his ability to defend big men as well as perimeter players – a quality that Azuibuike doesn’t have. I.e. Azubuike is a 2/3 swingman (like Mo), while AK47 is a true combo forward.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:44:16 +0000

Fundamentals- Joe is currently averaging 4.5 assists per game, his career average, where is the evidence that he is more selfish?

By: Daniel

Daniel — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:40:15 +0000

Ill- wait a minute, now. All respect, but it is not fair to cloud the issue of Josh playing the 3 by suggesting that basically there are no certainties in life, and no one has complete knowledge of what coaches are thinking. That is a lot of smoke.

It is not that Josh can’t play the 3, but why would you move the guy who has worked so hard to limit his outside shot, improve his post play, improve his rebounding and continue his outstanding help defense to the point that he is playing at All Star levels to position that would take him out of the position that plays to his advantages?

Ultimately, is comes down to Does moving Al to the 4 (theoretically upgrading his game) and Josh to 3 (theoretically down grading his) improve the team overall?

I say no way, especially when taking in the facts that Josh is tearing it up at the 4 and Al is honestly and All Star candidate at the 5.