Hawks-Pistons

Watch out for Will Bynum.

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LOL@ BONE

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Lets make this the give the ball to Al game.

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Hawks first six shots have been jumpers. While the pistons have scored their 8 of their 11pts in the paint…

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Glad to see Marvin playing well….. so far

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Marvin is off to a good start. Why did Woody take him out the game? He should have took Joe out…

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The Pistons are killing the Hawks in the paint.

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Oh my goodness… Josh with a coast to coast dunk….

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Who says Josh should pass to a guard.

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Teague had sex with Woody’s daughter

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haha…

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Put Teague in dammit

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No defense being played

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Ok, nice spurt by the Hawks to cut the lead to 1…

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at least get Marvin a couple shots before the half and see if you can find a hot hand

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blocked again…Marvin is incapable of getting a shot off in traffic

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Teague 0 MINS

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JJ not being able to shoot is an issue.

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Man I don’t even know what to say about this team. Soooooo Inconsistent

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Put Teague in the F*CKIN game

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This blog is horrible. There’s no effort put in at all.

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Hawks getting pounded on the Boards

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Pistons don’t even have Rip, Prince, Wilcox, or Gordon, and we’re LOSING?

Are you !@#%ing serious?

Why don’t we change up the starting lineup? We will lose this game and Woody will just run the starters’ legs down like he always does. J*sus Christ.

Wait, Marvin has 9 points. That’s his season average! Mission Accomplished for him! This makes me sick. You got Al Horford tweeting every damn pregame about how relaxed he is and chilling. When is the last time he put in extra hours on game tape? His posting up is almost atrocious, the amount of times he loses the ball.
How the hell is Woody gonna let us lose to his former team that is WITHOUT 3 STAR PLAYERS

WE HAD A DAY OFF. WTF IS THIS GARBAGE?

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im gonna try to run from room to room..my desktop is in one room,my tv in another,lol..

no reason not to pull joe for crawford now..
no reason not to bring in a 7 footer to help control the boards..
no reason not to ADJUST your scheme now,woody!!
and,its not reason not to tell,not ask your team,woody,to take less jumpers and drive more to the hoop…

all in all..we’re not gonna see no adjustments..u will see joe and crawford in together,and u will not see teague until this thing is a blowout..
my gametime of sending this response is ,4:06 in da 3rd..pistons 65-atl 57

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Joe is playing like garbage… Try passing the ball. Its ok if he decide to defer some on offense. My goodness…

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crawford enters the game..
joe still struggling and in as well..
players are going to the hoop and at the end of the 3rd,its 67-65 pistons..

im kinda in da middle on getting teague in now..we have come back,and i don’t woody or u woody lovers blaming teague for anything..having said that..the start of the 4th should be da best time to bring him in

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Joe and Marvin has two of the worst on court body language in the league. They should be banned from being teammates….

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Trade Joe and Marvin for Bosh

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What a sorry basketball team. Another awful effort. Looking worse than we did against NOH.

hey Woody, GREAT idea doing switches on EVERY PICK N ROLL. PUTTING HORFORD ON BYNUM AT THE 3 PT LINE IS BRILLIANT! LARRY BROWN TAUGHT YOU WELL

Can we please either suspend or trade Joe and Marvin. These guys stink.

And I better not see any excuses. we did NOT play last night

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NEWSFLASH EVERYBODY TEAGUE HASN’T PLAYED STINKIN MINUTE

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What a sorry basketball team. Another awful effort. Looking worse than we did against NOH.

hey Woody, GREAT idea doing switches on EVERY PICK N ROLL. PUTTING HORFORD ON BYNUM AT THE 3 PT LINE IS BRILLIANT! LARRY BROWN TAUGHT YOU WELL.

Can we please either suspend or trade Joe and Marvin. These guys stink.

And I better not see any excuses. we did NOT play last night

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WE GET KILLED ON BOARDS AND DONT EVEN PUT IN ONE OF OUR F*CKING 7 FOOT BIGS TO HELP CURE THE PROBLEM.

WE HAVE MARVIN WHO IS SUPPOSED TO HIT OPEN SHOTS, BUT HE CANT

THIS TEAM IS GARBAGE. CANT BEAT A FREAKING DETROIT TEAM WITHOUT ITS 3 BEST PLAYERS. JOE IS NOT ELITE

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ooh yeah the other birds are sucking also

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Hawks and Falcons are turning back into the Hawks and Falcons..

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Dang, Rodney Stuckey looks like 50 cent…

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Joe needs to be traded because he isn’t gonna re-sign with the hawks. We have to get something for him. Marvin needs to be traded as well

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WHAT THE HELL IS JOSH DOIN

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Not a good 3pt shot attempt by Josh. Thats the nail in the coffin….

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TEAGUE PLAYED 0 MINUTES

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TEAGUE 0 MINUTES..

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TEAGUE 0 MINUTES.

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THIS IS WHY THIS TEAM WILL NEVER CONTEND

AWFUL EFFORTS ONT EH ROAD. JAMAL CRAWFORD WAS 8-12, YET JOE IS SUCH A DAMN BALLHOG WHO IS SO CONCERNED WITH HIS CONTRACT YR THAT HE NEGATES EVERYTHING CRAWFORD CAN DO. EVERY SINGLE PLAY WE RUN SHOULD BE A CRAWFORD ISO WITH PLAYERS CUTTING TO THE BASKET

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I promise you, the Hawks Achillies heel are playing crappy teams away. For some reason, probabaly they figure they have the game in the bag, but they don’t try against crappy teams. Is this really supposed to be an “elite” team. Speaking out of frustration from watching them, I’ll say no but it’s a long season and I would request Joe to start playing like he wants that huge contract.
-Moxie

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Hey guys….for the most part this is the same team from last year.

Improvements? Josh stopped jacking up as many 3s; Crawford over Flip

The other problem are still the same though. Those slight improvements are not enough to move the hawks up from the 4th/5th area of the east.

If we maintain this same coaching, defensive lapses, poor half court offense, with no size to defend the paint and no real post threats…we can expect to be mauled by Cleve. or Orl. in the playoffs

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JeJe & BONE: I agree with both of you. I mean, Woodson can’t make shots for his guys but he could do a lot more to put them in position for easy buckets. I don’t know if he really is as clueless as it seems when it comes to drawing up offensive plays. If not, as a coach, you’ve GOT to pull guys that are taking the team out of the sets with one-on-one play. I just get the feeling it’s Woodson calling all these iso’s. You bring your top scorer off the bench to spell your starting PG & he either keeps you in the game by hitting half the tons of shots he puts up or shoot you out of the game hogging the ball & not giving other guys a chance to get involved. I love Crawford as our 6th man, but I can’t say I’m as impressed with him when he’s running the point. You need a backup PG that can create shots for his teammates, not just himself. Not going overboard & ripping Crawford, it’s more of my hate for Woodson’s offensive schemes…or lack of.

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Bone……. Great Idea…..I would love to get rid of Weak Soft Girly-man Marvin, and ball hog Joe ! Bosh would bang, and compliment the other starters.

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Great, just great. Woodrow DNPs three players and Joe Johnson shoots us out of the game again.

FIRE WOODROW AND TRADE JOE.

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2nd game joe has shot us out of

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We got beaten to death on the boards. Only two guys were rebounding the ball with any effort whatsoever, and that was Josh and Al. Al did about what he normally does (double-double guy), and I wanted to see Josh get more rebounds, but he was active on both ends of the court in that area. That, and I’m not going to yell too much at a guy who is shooting 11-15, blocking 5 shots, and doing plenty of other things.

Bibby had 3 boards, but he’s a 6′1″ point guard.

Marvin has no excuse.

JJ has no excuse. Particularly since he almost singlehandedly kept us from shooting as well as we did. Funny, Joe was the worst shooter on the team (Marvin was as bad, but had less than HALF of Joe’s attempts), yet he took the most shots. Why was he in there for 43 minutes?

Zaza only got 10 minutes, and Joe Smith got less than 5.

Between that and the play calls, I don’t even know what to say about Woody.

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The Hawks take too many nights/days off. There really is no excuses for the lack of effort and intensity especially playing against a weakened Piston team. I hate to say this, but this will be a theme that repeats itself for the rest of the season.

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I have to laugh at anybody who is mad at Josh Smith for a three point attempt near the end of the game.

What did you want, JJ to go 5-20 instead of 5-19? How about Marvin going 3-9, instead of 3-8? Heh…

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Couldn’t catch the game today. No available feeds.

I actually was expecting this result today. The Hawks have a tendency of under estimating worse opponents, in particular when they are undermanned.

Even without watching the game, it’s easy to pin point the problem: rebounding, which translates into two things: lack of effort and poor coaching.

I don’t like to point the finger to Woody when the players lay an egg, however, there is not *$%&#£ reason for him not to use his bench to try to change the rebounding effort tonight.

If Marvin was not rebounding, why not play Mo more minutes? Yes, he is shorter, but sometimes size is not everything.

And why play JJ for 43 minutes when he is clearly not player well? We were player either with a SF which was not rebounding (Marvin) or with 3 guards… Doesn’t make sense.

And why not try a BIG line up with Collins or even RandMo with Al and Josh??

Anyhow, we must be realistic. Games are lost. It’s a normal occurrence and good teams also have bad games.

Let’s wait that this recent trend does not expand.

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Woodrow complains for years about how he has no bench, finally gets one and still wont utilize it properly. That switching defense was down right disgusting out there. No effort on the glass. We signed a big body for games like this where he could maybe slow down the Pistons but ol Woodrow wont even use him. Teauge is Law Jr. We might win a few more games than last year but this is dang near the same team.

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Mark Twain: Figures often beguile me, particularly when I must do the arranging of them myself. In which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Marvin cost us the game. Joe cost us the game. Josh’s 3 cost us the game. TYPICAL BLOGGER HADD IT PEGGED.

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CAN JOSH PLAY THE 3 POSITION?
GO HAWKS!!!!!

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Yes he can but not as an outside shooter. Bosh at 5, Horford at 4 Smith at 3, Johnson/Crawford at 2 and Bib at 1. Trade MW, and JJ if they insist to Toronto for Bosh. Or Marv, a 7 footer and 1 round pick for Bosh. We need to do whatever we can to pull that trade off. It is time for Sund to get to work. Woody needs to use the bench or Sund needs to get him off the bench.

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It just fustrating watching this team because they never make ajustments from game to game. JJ didn’t have it last game and again today. Yet he plays over forty minutes. Why does Josh continue to take illadvised shots at critical times in the game. How can you get out rebounded 53 to 27 to a team without two of their starters. These things point to coaching . Why have a much improved bench if you are not going to use them. The Hawks have too many immature starters who feel they are entitled to play whether they are producing or not. Again, this falls upon coach Woodson . Woodson is always saying how the bench players must earn their minutes, well, what about the starters?

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GOLDEN STATE NEED A SMALL FORWARD BAD BUT DO THEY THINK HE IS WORTH BRINGING 2 THE TEAM?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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STARTER BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ANDRIS BIEDRINS.
BENCH TEAGUE, CRAWFORD, MOE, JOE SMITH, ZAZA.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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WE ARE HURTING BAD AT THE 3 BUT WE HAVE 2 MOVE HORFORD 2 POWER FORWARD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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BONE,

Until December 15, we’re completely barred from trading him because of restrictions on trading away free agents that a team just signed (or re-signed). But BYC rules are a separate set of rules that govern how a player’s salary is computed in trades when he is re-signed by his old team using the Bird exception. BYC rules apply until June 30:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73

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Heres the problem:

Horford needs to be playing in his natural position which is Power Forward. But Josh plays the 4 spot. And Josh is not a true PF and he is too bad of a shooter to play SF. Josh is the definition of a Tweener.

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they are dogging the hawks live on internet radio..

http://www.sportsjourney.com

click and listen

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Oh its Mr. Subliminal, I mean Nireclown. Great game by Marvin huh. Marvin Williams lost this game. His +/- number for this game was -18. Guess that means nothing huh. Great idea to resign him this summer for more than any other small forward. I wonder who said it was not a good idea. Hmmmmm.

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Please Joe Johnson leave after this season. Step up and EARN your GD money. You are playing like garbage. No way this team should lose a game like this. GOOD TEAMS win these games. I guess we know that the Hawks aren’t quite there yet. Good job coaching them up Woodson.

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Marvin is not the problem, hell he only takes around 8 shots a game…the problem is your “superstar JOE JOHNSON” this dude is not worth what he is asking for…I dont get it, u idiots bash Marvin but Joe Johnson pounds the ball for 18 seconds and throws up brick after brick….HE IS NOT AN SUPERSTAR

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what about joe,

Because us idiots realize that Joe steps up 90% up the time, and Marvin never steps up.

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Why the hell does the NBA schedule games on Sunday afternoons during NFL season? I realize this game was in Detroit, and not only had the Lions already played but even if they were playing today nobody in Detroit would be watching them, but I’d be surprised if even half the regular viewership was watching this game in the metro ATL area.

As for the game, it sucked. Josh Smith is the only guy who came to play, and even he didn’t play particularly well. That’s now 4 straight games where the Hawks have played like the 37-45 team that squeaked into the playoffs in 2007, instead of the supposed-to-be contender of 2009-10. They need to get this fixed quick.

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For those who don’t understand, +/- is team net points while player is in the game. Meaning when Marvin was playing, Detroit was 18 points better than us. GET RID OF THIS CLOWN!!!

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HOW CAN MARVIN SETPUP WHEN HE CAN’T GET HIS HANDS ON THE BALL ,BECAUSE OF JOE
HOGGING THE BALL. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN JOE WAS OUT WHO LED THE TEAM IN SCORING IT WAS MARVIN. JOE AND WOODY NEED TO GO.

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A broken record

Same problem, same answer,

The Mind of Sanity

If you did not want to sound twisted you would compare head coaches to head coaches. Let me help you with a better example.

Woodson is to over achieving what Mark Richt is to underachieving.
I hope that help’s. Woodson is responsible for the Hawks fortunes, not his assistant coaches. Mark Richt is responsible for the Dogs fortunes, or the lack thereof, not his assistant coaches. Ill bet you buck a lot of responsibility at work….You do have a job dont you ?

Its amazing how far this center-less team has come. What I cant understand is how we can call Sund a general manager when he has not and will not address our # 1 deficiency, no center to compete at the higher levels.

N.J. is 0-16 and is going nowhere. They have a 7 foot center who has skills, size and weight. Hes polished and can compete with Howard or Oneal. Hes currently averaging 17.9points and 9 rebounds per game. GO GET THIS GUY LOPEZ!! WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY PAYING SUND FOR? YOU GET LOPEZ AND KEEP THE NUCLEUS TOGETHER AND WE ARE IN THE TOP THREE AND READY TO K.S.A.!!

FIRE SUND IF HE CANT GET THIS DONE. 0-16? OH YEAH LOPEZ CAN BE GOT!

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rod from college park,

Who makes the most money on the Hawks?

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MIND OF SANITY I LIKE LOPEZ 2 BUT IT WOULD TAKE MORE THAN MARVIN 2 BRING HIM HERE WHO WOULD YOU GIVE UP FOR LOPEZ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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I say trade him now while he has a little value.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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WOW I JUST REALIZE THAT WOODY DIDNT PLAY HIS BENCH AT ALL.
JOE 4 MIN
MOE 5 MIN
ZAZA 10 MIN
TEAGUE 0 MIN
WHAT IN THE H IS GOING ON HERE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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WHAT IS ALL THIS FUST ABOUT SIGNING JOE SMITH THIS SUMMER AND WOODY WANT PLAY HIM CLYDE WHERE IS MY T SHIRT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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There are five teams in the East with a winning record on the road. One of them is the Hawks. There are six teams in the West with a winning record on the road. Why does everyone here get so down on this team because it loses a game on the road yet has a winning road record? The Hawks were still in reach of a victory in spite of how badly they played until the last few minutes of the game. Is there no one else on this blog who appreciates how well this team is playing? It is easy to be negative when they lose a game. But they are playing other teams that are also filled with professional athletes. Come on guys. Your negativity is just a bit too much. Last year this team won only 16 road games all year. They have already won five this year. It is not easy to win on the road. Cut this team some slack.

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Ken Strickland,

So what you are saying is, let’s give Marvin more shots than Joe Johnson and our team would be better? Are you out of your mind you idiot? Why would I want Marvin shooting more shots or driving to the hole with those ugly flailing bulls..t attempts at lay-ups? Dude, quit writing novels and bringing these bs stats proving absolutely nothing. Marvin is a bum. What you are saying is you believe Marvin would score if given the same chances as Joe, and I say no f…king way….

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ITS NOT EVEN ABOUT USING MO, TEAGUE, AND ZAZA MORE

THE GUY REFUSES TO USE JASON COLLINS, WHO IS FREAKING GIGANTIC. THE GUY STARTED IN THE FINALS AGAINST SHAQ AND DUNCAN 2 YEARS IN A ROW. WHY THE HELL DID WE SIGN HIM?

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NO RLP, no one like Woodson style of coaching. Its pretty obvious that if the Hawks perimeter guys like Bibby or Joe and such are hitting their jumpshots then we win and everybody is happy and Mike Woodson looks like a genius. If we are missing jumpshots then we lose because we have no offensive scheme we dont rebound well on a consistent basis and we dont use our post guys (the few we have) to score down low. Woodson may be a good coach but I dont think he fits this team the way it is constructed. The Hawks are more of a transition-run and attack type team. We dont really have the right guys to run a consistent half-court game like so other teams are. Plus in my opinion guys like Marvin and Josh have low basketball IQ. They really need to study the game and define their position as to what they do well and play to that instead of whatever they call themselves doing now.

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MARVIN IS THE REASON THE HAWKS LOST TODAY.

MARVIN IS THE REASON BEN WALLACE AND JASON MAXIELL GOT 15 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS AND WHY JOSH LET JEREBKO GET TWO STRAIGHT OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS RIGHT NEXT TO HIM.

MARVIN IS THE REASON THAT JOE JOHNSON SHOT 5 FOR 19.

MARVIN IS THE REASON MIKE WOODSON DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO USE HIS BENCH.

MARVIN KEPT ME FROM WALKING ONTO THE TEAM AT UNC.

MARVIN USED THE LAST SQUARE OF TOILET PAPER.

MY DAD COULD BEAT UP MARVIN’S DAD.

MARVIN IS THE REASON WE ARE HAVING GLOBAL WARMING.

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This team is winning inspite of Woodson. He is a good coach, but not the one the hawks need. We need a coach that can identify the strengths of this team and maximize them. Woodson’s lack of creativeness is crippling them.

Maybe if Marvin comes from the bench in the 2nd unit as a 2nd shooting option he could wake up. I hope he wakes up, but not bettting on it.

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kellZ: I second that motion.

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Still cant made adjustments, still no plan B when plan A does not work, still wont use the bench, still rides the starters even when they are stinking up the joint and giving no effort, still allows Joe to pound the rock and take as many bad shots as he wants, still with the switching defense even if it does not work…. How much longer do we have to put up with this crap. New year same dang complaints.

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DARRELL STARKS-you’re correct, Marvin’s gm has gotten worse. But that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. Although his gm has gotten worse, as our #5 scoring option, he’s still managed to score only 18 fewer pts over the last 4gms than JJ, our #1 scoring option, while taking 31 fewer shots. The best way to get Marvin going is through OFF inclusion, not exclusion.

Marvin is having problems, but he’s not THE problem. Instead of getting rid of him, or any player, the Hawks need to get rid of:

(1)Woodson’s limited, perimeter oriented, jumpshooting, guard dominated halfcourt ISO OFF and constantly switching DEF.

(2)His unwillingness to effectively utilize his bench.

(3)His overplaying of key players.

(4)His pretence at trying to develop young players.

(5)His constant habit of lying and blaming everything that goes wrong on his players.

WE CAN KILL ALL OF THOSE BIRDS WITH ONE STONE BY GETTING RID OF WOODSON, PERIOD.

GRANDAD-Thanks for the compliment and the concern. I hope everyone had a holiday as rewarding and as safe as mine.

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The ressurection of Ben Wallace, plus Boston over Miami-

http://crashingtheglass.com/

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Ken Strickland,

You become more idiotic the more you post. Joe took more shots because he should, he can and he is able to create his own shot. These are things that Marvin can’t do. Marvin would not shoot 31 times if his life depended on it. Oh, I remember your famous line, Marvin is as good as Danny Granger. Idiot. Stop trying to blame Woodson for everything, and blame the bum, your cousin, or son Marvin Williams .

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One thing that stands out about JJ’s game is the fact that he chucks up a LOT of jump shots! At 6′7″ 240, he should be driving to the basket, getting contact, and earning free points on the FT line. I did a stat check on the NBA’s Elite (Kobe, LeBron, D Wade, etc.) amd discovered the JJ is only averaging 4.4 FT attempts a game. Most of the “NBA Elite” are averaging 9 FT attempts a game, and I was shocked to see that Kevin Durant averages over 9 FT attempts a game. The stats don’t lie…..if JJ would stop being strictly a jump shooter, drive in the paint and get to the FT line, like the NBA elite do masterfully, his game would be a lot better. He walked away from 60 big ones this off season, and his body language suggests that he doesn’t want to be here. If he wants to be reunited with D’Antoni in NYC, let him. But he, nor D’Antoni have Steve Nash, who has made them a lot of money….D’Antoni by running his syatem to perfection, and JJ by allowing him to look like an awesome player by average 17 pts as a 4th option. But anyway, that’s another story for another day. Bottom line: JJ is not being the leader of this team…I think he is hating on Crawford. Before, when we wanted him to shoot, he refused….now that Crawford here, he wants to all the shots.

Woody, I think, is done…..regardless of what the team does this season. He is totally inept, and isn’t worthy of a extension….AT ALL!

And Marvin……he is the epitome of BUST! PERIOD!

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Denver just lost at home against MIN and are currently standing @ 12-5 with Billups the all-star laying an egg.

I am sure that the Nuggets fans are complaining like hell.

In case you have not noticed, games are lost, teams, players and coaches lay eggs all the time.

We have seen good showings, reasonable showings and bad showings. IT HAPPENS.

Right now we are 12-5 which is still a very good record.

Before we round up the tar and feathers, let’s wait and see what happens.

JJ had a string of bad games. My guess is that he has mental issues about Crawford’s emergence but I am confident that he will adapt.

Marvin is playing bad, however, he is the player who has suffered more with Crawford’s arrival since he is not getting shots and is the first player out of the line up, regardless of him being playing well or not.

Hence, we are still making adjustments and we all know that Woody is very conservative making them.

We are neither winning in spite of him and nor winning exclusively on account of his coaching. It’s a collective effort which has had good and bad performances from ALL sides.

Right now, I feel that Woody has not performed well during the past games, however, I cannot repeat this enough times:

The game against ORL was completely ruined in the 3rd quarter by the refs by continuing to allow Howard to get away with elbow charges and by swallowing the whistle in at least 3 consecutive JJ DRIVES (not jump shots).

The PHI game was bad but we won on the road where we have a 5-4 record right now.

Yesterday was clearly a bad game, however, the rebounding difference was – apart from the effort – also a freak occurrence, just like a hurricane or a flood: a disaster that sometimes is not controllable, just like our shots were simply not falling against NO.

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I think Joe wants to be traded. He refused to resign and now he is tanking. Give him his wish before he draggs us down.

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Hawks wouldnt be having any problems if they had a legit center. Why are you wasting perfectly good blogs on garbage and idiotic statements. How many teams you know who were in the finals last year that had no legit center? 0, what about the year before?0, before that?0……nt
0 zero, nil, nada, ziltch. thats how many teams are going to win a championship with out a center. So why in the HELL are you idiots arguing about who took the most shots or played the most minutes? Get a clue biitches. None of the Shyt matters. You aint going past the second round hoes. Are you guys really this stupid or are you acting?…never mind dont answer.

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No interior D, no rebounding, no effort = no chance of a win! Our loss tonight was effort. A perfect situation to put in Randmo, ZaZa, Marvin, Crawford and Teague in at the same time. Maybe then Marvin would feel like he was part of the offense and team. You can’t get in the flow if you never get shots.

We’ve gotta have the balls to sit Joe when he’s obviously not in the building. I’m convinced we need to move Marvin to the second unit where he can develop. You can’t tell me Randmo and Teague wouldn’t have given monster energy & effort if given a chance yesterday. Nobody cared, nobody had heart. This has been going on for about 5 games now…plus 1/2 of last year. The guys just aren’t mature enough to bring it every night and Woodson is too worried about his job to trust his bench.

He needs to learn to sit starters when they obviously don’t have it on a particular night and to rely on his bench. They can’t develop if they never see the court. I’m first to say he deserves a chance, but he may not deserve an extension if he can’t figure this point out.

Marvin can never succeed when he’s 5th option. He needs to move to the 2nd unit if we ever want to see him succeed.

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Woody said he was embarrassed by the Hawks performance in Detroit. Wtf? Hell, I’m embarrased everytime he calls a freakin Iso Joe. lol!! But seriously, I think Josh Smith is the new “Hawks best player”. The media still gives that honor to JJ. To be honest, JJ might not even be the best shooting guard on the team anymore.

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Pound, Pound, Pound. Blank stare, Blank stare, Blank stare. Joe, Joe, Joe. Woody, Woody, Woody.

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Fundamentals- “nobody cared, nobody had heart”- You summed it up perfectly, really what other analysis of the Detroit game is there.

However, I can tell you that Randmo and Teague may have not given monster energy, because I just did. I agree that particularly in the 3rd quarter why not give them a shot, if for nothing else to send a message to the starters that no one’s minutes are safe without effort.
RandMo has entire career from college to the pro’s of NEVER giving monster energy. Just sayin’

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not saying that al can’t man the five. but al is a natural powerforward. while kendrick is a natural center. kendrick perkins is a legit center because of his physicality and toughness in the paint. he’s too strong to push around down low and he always manages to get into other players heads by giving hard fouls. it’s his presence not his size that makes him a true center. doesn’t hurt that he outweighs al by 35 lbs either.

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Teague is going to give the effort regardless. I can admit Randmo has been an awful dissappointment up until his last game…or first game of this season. He was banging folks, getting boards and I think he hit every shot he took. Not bad for a man who knows McDonalds is his next option after this year is out. His back’s against the wall this year. I think he’s going to give what he’s got…whatever that may be. Granted I’ll admit we’ll be hunting kids to fill in slots for 3 big men when they leave after this year. That is unless Collins likes his courtside, I never get to play, seat.

With the lack of effort Sunday from the kids that played I would’ve cleared the bench before 1/2 time and made a statement. Our scrubs could’ve gone down 14 and then let the starters wake up and fix it. Didn’t they learn anything from the whoopin Orlando put on us in the second 1/2? I was praying that was what we would do.

At least it wasn’t another national broadcast where they’d blame it on Turkey.

TOTAL LACK OF EFFORT, HEART & TESTICLES!

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Didn’t see last nights game, but from reading the blog it sounded like a disaster. From the stats it still looks like Woody is coaching like he’s got a team full of rookies. He keeps letting his starters work through their mistakes instead of putting them on the bench. What I saw in the Orlando game was Woody watching Zaza get abused down low and JJ hold the ball! Woody needs to take JJ out and remind him to pass the ball! Put Zaza on the bench and use Smith or Collins. Woody’s view has always been my starters are my best players (Crawford is basically at starter) and I will win with my best players on the floor. That’s true until your best players aren’t playing like your best players. If their not playing then put someone else in and see if they will preform. My problem from looking at the stat sheet was, Wallace only shot 4 FTs! If he’s dominating the boards, then start fouling him, he’s a terrible shooter! Send Collins in to do it, do something.

I’m not a Woody supporter, but I do want the team to succeed! Overall I think Woody is doing a decent job. Even if he was doing a great job, I think they would probably only have 1-2 more wins.

Woody, start coaching like you expect to win games by 20+!!

If guys aren’t giving effort, then let them sit!

If they aren’t doing what they are supposed to,
take them out!,
straighten them out!
and put them back in!

GO HAWKS!!

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Fundamentals & honest_abe:
Great insights.*Marvin-moving w/o ball is his strength. He is not a slasher! *Perkins weighs in @ about 285, that make him a bit more of a [5] than Al(on a diet). Plus Hubie said K.P. looked to be a legit 6-10.

Daniel: To answer your question > Biedrins.

*Lakers did not win a championship until Gasol arrived.

* Did anyone notice; Joe had ‘0′,(ZERO), NO free throws Sun.? He did
not get to the line one time.

*I know a fella named Bubba who is an engineer. Not the kind who drives
a train either. I would bet a nickel that he doesn’t even know who MW
is nor does he care. This whole paragraph is totally irrelevant, is it
not?

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vava74

I agree with your post. This team is better than most. In the NBA teams will have ups and downs. It was nice when the national media recognized the team’s improvement and placed them atop the rankings. Obviously this week will drop them down but they will still be in the top ten. Hollinger and Mark Stein both have them at number five at ESPN. Both have them ranked higher than the Celtics. Most people on this blog seem to want the number six scorer to be averaging 20 points per game. It amazes me when trades are suggested that would have another team give up their best or next to best player for someone they feel is worthless. I do not think these people live in the real world.

Six of the nest eight games are at home. All are winnable games. Two are away against Dallas and Toronto. If the Hawks can win the six home games and split the two away games then they will be in good shape for the next six games which will include a four game road trip and then home and way against Cleveland.

So much in the NBA is about a team’s psyche. If the team can come out of the next eight games with a 7 and 1 record then when they do go on that road trip maybe they can maintain the .500 record they need to have to keep them on the cusp of being the elite team everybody on this blog wants them to be. The four road games are against Chicago, Minnesota, Denver and Indiana. If they play with energy and abandonment I think it is possible for them to win three of the four. But even winning two of four would allow them to enter the new year with a record of 21-10 which translate to a 677 winning percentage even if they lose both games to Cleveland to finish out the year. I think this is a realistic goal for the team and for us fans. As we all know predicting the future is not the same as what the future will produce. There will be games that are lost that should not be lost. But maybe there will also be unanticipated wins. But how many on this blog would not be satisfied with a 21-10 record entering 2010? And how many disagree with this possibility? So let us start with Toronto on tonight and the Knicks on Wednesday. Go Hawks.

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WOODY = COY

MY AZ

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By Trey Daniels

After almost 6 years on the job, and despite 100 more L’s than W’s on his record, Hawks head coach Mike Woodson feels he is finally getting somewhere with his young team.

“I am starting to get it. I am still working on some things, but I think I finally have the basics down,” said Woodson. “Whoever has the most points at the end of the game wins. Once I figured that one out, the rest of it just started falling in place.”

Woodson said he once thought basketball was like golf, where the lower score wins.

“That totally changed the way I approached the game,” said Woodson.

He said he also recently figured out the 3-point line, back court violations and rebounding. Woodson, who has faced rumors of being fired, said he should keep his job.

“I figure it can only get better. Now I can tell our players, ‘Hey, we need 3 points, shoot from over here.’ And it’s actually OK if you miss the shot, you can run to the ball and get it back,” said Woodson. “These are things I can pass on to our players and it should lead to a few wins.”

When asked what he knew about defense, Woodson seemed puzzled.

“You mean it is OK to try to stop the other team? Wow!”

Woodson, who was an assistant coach for the Detroit Pistons before coming to Atlanta, admitted he mostly rode the bench while Larry Brown did most of the work.

“Larry was great,” said Woodson. “He could tell players what a travel is. He could even explain a bounce pass to them. That is part of the reason Detroit was so good.”

Woodson said Brown allowed him to do vital things for him, like hold his clip board and hand Gatorade to players on the bench. The Atlanta coach said he rarely paid attention to the game saying he always found it “a little boring.”

General Manager Rick Sund, a self-proclaimed ‘basketball expert,’ said he didn’t realize Woodson knew so little about the game before hiring him.

“I really do very little in terms of preparation for these things,” said Sund. “For me, picking a coach is a lot like drafting a player. You just close your eyes and pick a name.”

The Hawks are currently 12-5, and Woodson said he feels good about the team’s playoff hopes.

“We have been working on these things called free throws,” said Woodson. “I think they could have a big effect on the game.”

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Daniel:
My apologies, I should have set that up for you and I’m such a slow typist that I just got lazy. ‘Peter’ mentioned something about a trade
and you commented about who was out there. I merely speculated (as myself and others did last PM) that Biedrins was a possibility. Not being argumentative just trying to add a fresh perspective. I hope this clears it up. Once again [as the kids say] “my bad”.

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Not too get too technical, but Marvin is a BYC player this year, because of his new contract, which significantly reduces his trade value and almost makes trading him impossible, and would essentially cost the Hawks 3 milion dollars out of pocket. Moving Joe Johnson would require that we take back at least 15 milion in salary, so you are not going to be able to get Biedris ($9 milion for that).

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Jeje,

That “article” is recycled from nearly 2 years ago:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=297266&page=&view=&sb=5&o=

It’s still funny as hell, though…

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Daniel:
I don’t know the ins and outs of all the trade restictions. That’s R.Sunds job to figure out. But if you say it cannot be done then I’ll have to chalk it up to wishful thinking.

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Dang too bad the Hawks can’t switch divisions with Boston and Cleveland. Atlanta has the same record as Cleveland who is #1 in their division with a 12-5 record. Put Orlando in Cleveland or Boston’s division and see if they’re in the #1 spot. Nope I don’t think so. The Hawks’ division is much more competitive.

Anyway the Hawks have just hit the bumpy part of the roller coaster. I’m sure no one thought an 82 game season was gonna be smooth sailing. I’m just as much disappointed with the losses as anyone. But think about it, the Hawks have won the majority of their games so far and are still one game over .500 on the road and have only one loss at home. The season is far from over, Orlando hasn’t won the division or the series. Detroit hasn’t won the series either, nor Charlotte, nor the Lakers, and the series between the Hornets was split. Why don’t we all take a deep breath, calm down and look for the bright spots sometimes? The season is not over and the ATL Hawks still have a shot at becoming elite.

GO HAWKS, CONTINUE THE RISE, ONE GAME AT A TIME!

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KevinA,

Call Woody and tell him that’s what you want. I wouldn’t wait by the phone for him to call back, though.

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niremetal

November 30th, 2009
1:45 pm
KevinA,

Call Woody and tell him that’s what you want. I wouldn’t wait by the phone for him to call back, though.

Just seems to me a better option than “Fire Woody” , Trade JJ or Marvin, get a better big, find a better pg etc.etc. Everybody has a view, mine is just different.

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I’m done with the Hawks!

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Ah, I see. So the Hawks’ perimeter players should be expected to design and implement an offensive system that gets more frontcourt touches. Funny…I always had thought that teams do better when the designing of the offense is done by coaches instead of players. If not, then I guess it’s just coincidence that 22 of the last 25 NBA Finals were won by just 5 coaches (Phil, Pop, Riley, Daly, and Rudy T), all of whom implemented offensive systems that were sufficiently honed to allow players to only have to worry about executing their role in the offense. I guess we should just accept that since [JJ/Marvin/Josh/Bibby/Whoever else on the Hawks you don't like] can’t do Woody’s job for him, he’s not worth keeping have to do more than that.

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All this talk of breaking up the team, firing the coach, trading for folks that just aren’t available or worth the expense is a bit too much. Anyone complaining about the record hasn’t watched the Hawks for 20+ years. This is the top of the shelf version of our Hawks. We’ve never seen better…but we’re not happy. Where were all of you during the dark times in the ATL? Probably in your momma’s womb!

We’ve got some problems yes, but we also have opportunities. When we bring the effort on D and on the boards with Josh and Al we look so flawless. When we actually run the offense and bring both of them in early and often we look flawless. It all comes from a team effort on both ends.

I do agree JJ pounds the ball, all the guards chuck up a 3 at the end of the clock to no avail, nobody really tries to establish the inside game. Marvin, Josh and Al all lose interest because there’s just no chance they’ll see consistent balls thrown their way.

I predicted the season start at 14-4 during the preseason. We’re pretty close to that. We should win 3 of the next 4 and 9 of 12 with reasonable team effort.

Rebound!
Play D!
Use the bench!
Play like a team!
Get back to establishing Josh & AL down low!
Move Marvin to the 2nd team as a 2nd option w/ Crawford!
Only shoot the 3 in the flow of the game…not at the end of every 24 second clock!

It’s not that easy for our team to run most anyone out of the gym if we stick to the fundamentals.

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Daniel Good post, It sure is quiet from the Woody haters. Is clear and obvious to most normal people that Woody is doing an out standing job with the hand thats dealt him

JeJe, I dont thinks its Woody who is changing, but a combination of fans starting to see what Woody is doing with what he is given, haters running out of wind, and people jumping on the band wagon. Woody is still coaching the same, he just has more tools. He still needs a legit center to complete the charge to the top. He’ll never crack the top three in a 7 game set with out one .
Im glad your perception is changing.

Im not saying Woodson will win, coy, but hes doing an outstanding job and outside of hateville ga, most people see him as an easy top ten coach in both conferences.

This blog wastes a lot of time trying to fix what aint broke. They should be concentrating on putting pressure on Sund to get Woodson a legitimate center.

Josh is an allstar!

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THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION:

terrell barron

November 30th, 2009
2:38 pm

Joe’s jealous of Crawford’s natural scoring ability, and fan support, so he’s pressing. He also knows this is Smoove’s team now. He and Ole Woodrow are fighting for contracts. It is so obvious, it’s pathetic. I think JJ’s feelings were hurt when Sund made the move for Crawdaddy, right after he turned down more $ than he’s worth. I really do. I think he was more comfortable with Acie and Speedy sitting on the bench, than a guy who can come in and basically do what he likes to do. Score buckets!

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Grandad- I like Biedris, too, just not really feasible to get him at this point. Nice Joe Caldwell reference.

terrell- you have no idea what Joe Johnson is feeling. He has had a couple of subpar games, but he is still in the top ten MVP candidates. He is worth what a team will pay him, and most(every single one) players of Joe’s calibre always go to free agency, which does not mean that he doesn’t want to be here. He has been a more vocal leader this year, leading the team in assists (despite the ball hog claims) and is the best player on the team that is 12-5 and on pace for a 60 (that’s right sixty) win season. I certainly didn’t see this team winning 60, I was more in the 52-55 range. You don’t like Joe, or his game, and want him out of here, that is your opinion and you have the right to it, but don’t try to make up stories about his mindset to fit your feelings.

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niremetal

November 30th, 2009
2:14 pm
Ah, I see. So the Hawks’ perimeter players should be expected to design and implement an offensive system that gets more frontcourt touches. Funny…I always had thought that teams do better when the designing of the offense is done by coaches

I think the present offensive system allows for the post players to get the ball. Just seems to me JJ and JC are more interested in ISO and jacking 3’s than playing team ball.

We could do a Woody bash and ask why he does not yank JJ when he is cold or bench Jamal and JJ for missing so many 3 pt shots. Both stars should be able to know when they are cold and you would think be smart enough to use their impressive skills to get the ball to the post. I think it has less to do with the system and more to do with ego.

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It is easier to say the other person has changed than to admit we are wrong.

A fool continues stubbornly in the path of foolishness,, where a wise man changes his path.

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KevinA I think the answer to your comment goes back to your and my difference on where the offense starts. I say the outside opens the paint you say the inside opens the outside, we both agree you need a in/out game to play on the highest levels

The reason this team is not capable of starting from the inside against the real contenders is that Horford cant create nor finish in the low post off true centers. He is better scoring when being set up rather than dropping the ball in the low post and ISO horford. Its not effective against the legitimate centers, so our offense stalls with that approach as was evident against Orlando.

Horford is a blue collar power forward and I like him alot, dont get me wrong. I just like to keep it real.

Hawks need a center.

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Id rather believe the pros than an unlearned argument. Perhaps you should explain your wisdom( or lack there of) to ESPN, The other pro coaches, or the other fans out side this hate cell.

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Daniel , I have to agree with the notion that the hawks are closer to the big three, but you would get in that circle with a power forward as your center.

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TERRELL BARRON-you hit the nail on the head. I believe JJ turned down the Hawks contract offer because he wanted to force Sund to have to match a max contract to retain him, not because he had any intentions of leaving. He didn’t think Sund had any other viable options at SG, but Sund shocked his butt by making the trade for Crawford.

JJ knows if Crawford continues to score and rack up assists, he could end up being a sign and trade casuality instead of being resigned. Crawfords presence will force him to sign for less in order to remain a Hawk. Offensively, Crawford has demonstrated he can do everything JJ does, and he does it quicker, faster and will be doing it a hell of a lot cheaper.

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Ah, I see. So since the offense “allows for” the ball to get passed to the post, it’s entirely up to Lue/JJ/Bibby/Flip/Crawford to get the ball to the low post players. Woodson’s job is done. The offensive system (or rather, the lack of an offensive system) “allows for” it to happen. That’s enough for you, I guess.

So what if the system also “allows for” the guards to dominate the ball, as has been the case for most of the past 3.5 years? The onus is on the players to make something out of nothing. They shouldn’t need the COACH to create a system that affirmatively calls for ball movement (like Riley’s and the Triangle), constant off-ball movement (like Daly’s and Rudy T’s), or for the ball to go through the high post (like the Triangle or Pop’s offense). It’s up to the players to make that happen. Woody should just be able to sit on the sideline with his clipboard, talk about energy and rebounding during timeouts, coast to a 48-52 win season, and then watch the Hawks get shredded once they face a good defensive team after the starters are exhausted from overuse.

So what if JJ came from a system in which he was hailed as one of the most unselfish off-guards in the league – and in which he actually served as the backup PG – and only started getting called a ballhog once Harrington left and Woody publicly said that JJ needed to carry the team?

So what if Crawford came in talking about how much he wanted to pass, and then reverted back to being a chucker after Woody spent weeks talking about how he wanted Crawford to shoot first and ask questions later? And so what if he’s just following the same pattern as Lue and Flip? Ignore that. Crawford’s volume shooting is his fault, not Woody’s.

Yup, all of that is JJ and Crawford’s fault. When they do what Woody expects him to do without a word of objection from Woody, the blame falls on them.

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Ken Strickland

November 30th, 2009
3:57 pm

JJ knows if Crawford continues to score and rack up assists

Am disappointed with both players assists totals. Jamal can do better than 2.8 per game, he has been over 5 per a couple of years in his career. JJ is matching his career avg of 4.4 but in 06,08,09 he was closer to 6 per game. Those 3-4 extra assists we are missing might be the difference in tight games.

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Amen Lamont!

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Truth- after Howard who is the next best 5 in the East? I would say Horford. I would rather have him than Perkins or Shaq at this point in their careers.

Terrell- this is NOT a dis on Josh, who is playing at All Star levels, but he has also been erratic this season, but because his play is SOOO improved it seems less noticeable than Joe’s. Joe is still the best player on this team.

Niremetal- Dude, you are going after Woodson hard these days. Listen, if you can get me Phil, Pop(my favorite coach), Sloan, no-Daly(obvious), not Riley(he has gone off the deep end), then I would gladly give Woodson the boot. None of those guys are available by the way. But, seriously would you rather have Stan Van Gundy? Mike Brown? Flip Saunders? Terry Stotts?

I would consider Rick Carlise, though.

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Daniel,

The only big name I know of who I would hire is Carlisle. For the rest, we’d have to roll the dice and pick up an assistant from somewhere – but Phil, Pop, Daly, Rudy, and Coach Slick were not born with rings on their fingers. I assume it would not be too difficult for Sund to sit down prospective coaches and ask “Explain to me your offensive philosophy. Diagram for me what you would want to be the default offensive setup that the Hawks use. Etc.”

In any case, I agree that Carlisle aside, I don’t see any well-known coaches out there who would be good fits for us. More than anything, I’m pained that we didn’t hire Doc when we had the chance. My point is more that the criticisms hurled at JJ and Jamal seem to be based on a conception that they should be doing thing that usually are expected of the coach rather than the players – ie we’re expecting them to create a ball-movement oriented offensive system out of a “system” that instead focuses on creating isolation and other one-on-one plays. That seems to me a wildly misplaced criticism.

And as for Harlem Renaissance…let me just say that after reading your post, I’m shocked that you actually managed to spell “Renaissance” correctly.

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LaMont- thanks for the post. All fans get myopic about their own teams from time to time. Nice to have an “outsider” perspective.

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Nire- This is the NBA we are talking about and players play. Coaches decide on a rotation, control minutes and try to keeep a team focused that is about it. RARELY, are coaches calling plays, it is the players. I get your comment about not fair to JJ and Crawford. I think the blame falls squarely on both the coach and players. Lack of effort is lack of effort, it is not scheme, etc.. That is the main reason for the last three losses.

Anyway, no coaching change is going to happen this year, so the proof will be in the pudding so to speack, I still say a 52+ win season with a strong showing in the second round or conference finals appearance and we are headed in the right direction. Despite, the recent struggles we are still on pace to exceed those goals.

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Hey hate to interrupt you guys got goin on here bloggers, but has anyone noticed the lack of Hawks coverage we’re getting from our beat writer, Ken-whatever-your-last-name-is???

I mean Sekou was on it! We had an article everyday, keepin us posted on the team’s psyche after big wins, and how the team planned on turning it around after disappointing losses.
Now Mr. Ken simply throws up the blog title: “Hawks-Place NBA Team Here” and basically let’s us blog away. Maybe Sekou spolied us with excellent NBA coverage, but I am demanding that we at least get some insight about this team, seeing as though Mr. Ken attends the games and actually gets a press pass to speak with players.

Ken, this team has progressed steadily over the past six seasons, and I believe we deserve a better beat writer than this. I know you are temporary, but c’mon man give us avid fans something to read

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Drewcat, an article everyday. Sekou went weeks several times without putting up a new blog. Cut Ken some slack. At least we can still post opinions about the hometeam.

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Daniel,

You’re right in that in the NBA, a lot of coaches only worry about deciding on a rotation, controlling minutes, and keeping the team focused. But not a single title-winning team in the past 30 years has had a coach who did only those things. In fact, the only coach that has even made the Finals in the past 20 years that fits the description you gave is Mike Brown. And we all saw how well those Finals turned out…

You also changed what I said. I never said Woody should be calling individual plays. I said he should be implementing a different SYSTEM. And most playoff NBA coaches not named Mike Brown have a default “system” that the players go into on each play unless a different play is called. It’s usually nothing as complicated as the Triangle. It can be a system that’s based not on a player’s positioning, but rather on constant movement – both ball movement and off-ball movement – like in Nelson/Adelman/D’Antoni systems. More often, it can be a basic motion offense like Popovich, Rudy T, or SVG’s, which (like the Triangle) emphasize the creation and maintenance of spacing and open passing lanes. It can also be based around the use of multiple screens off and especially on the ball, like Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown. Regardless, effective offensive systems are designed to take pressure off whoever has the ball – even if the ball goes to the low block or to a guard on the wing, he’s not on his own if he decides to go one-on-one. Of course, good coaches and players will often throw a change-up by calling for an ISO play – Phil’s teams did this several times a game with Michael and Kobe. But those plays are the exception rather than the rule; they are used as a change-of-pace rather than as Plan A. And most coaches are bright enough to tweak or even create anew an offensive system that fits the players they have, rather than forcing an offensive system on them – like, most notably, Pat Riley has done at each of his coaching stops.

Put another way – I don’t think JJ would be pounding the ball so much if he were being coached by any of the guys listed above. And if he did, he probably would find himself traded, and sure as hell wouldn’t find himself playing 40 minutes per game.

Unfortunately, Woody’s “system” emphasizes isolation plays as the rule rather than the exception. Movement – both on and off the ball – clearly is not emphasized, nor is spacing. As I said, it was remarkable watching the Magic game and seeing how well their perimeter players moved to create open passing lanes when the ball went to the post…while our guys stood as if enclosed in cement when the ball went to Horford or Smoove on the low block. It looked like JJ and Crawford’s feet were cemented to the floor. And when JJ or Jamal run their ISO plays, we see the same thing – Horford and Smoove usually don’t move or cut to the basket. There are times that the do (just like there are times that I’ve seen Bibby fade open to the corner when the ball goes to the low block), but it’s the exception rather than the rule.

You don’t need to call individual plays from the sideline to have an effective offensive system. The problem is that Woody seems to expect JJ to be LeBron, and since JJ isn’t LeBron, a “system” designed around isolating him on 25-30% of our offensive possessions is bound to break down against good teams (or even against bad teams when JJ isn’t “feeling it”). But instead of blaming JJ for not being as good as LeBron, doesn’t it make a hell of a lot more sense to blame Woody for treating him like he is LeBron?

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Harlem Renaissance , you’ll have to look over the guys here. They are long on zeal and opinions but short on knowledge. I guess its best to say this is football country and basketball has always been a east coast west coast experience.

KevinA I hope that we cover this MAJOR, disadvantage, by availability in the cap. I dont find there to be a major issue with our guards, they are among the best, in my opinion.

Daniel, its not a matter of the top ten. Its a matter of who can compete with the big three, thats who we have to over take.

Ive offered Lopez, who is playing on a 0-16 team, as a player who can compete with howard and shaq, there arent many. Horford cannot compete with them no matter how he compares with the also rans.

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“Harlem Renaissance , you’ll have to look over the guys here. They are long on zeal and opinions but short on knowledge.”

This from the man who thinks Zaza gets so many offensive rebounds because he is lazy getting back on defense.

LOL!

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A little knowledge is dangerous, very little knowledge is …a nuisance.

*nuisance? see the above poster?

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Not as stupid as repeating the same tired failing message of idiocy…

*Idiocy? see above poster.

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Drewcat

Ken say’s why should he bother putting up a new page when guys paste the same tired message. Why put up a new page for this Shyt?

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TO ALL THE IDIOTS ON HERE BASHING MARVIN, I HAVE 2 QUESTIONS.

1. WHO TEAM IS IT?

2. wHO MAKES THE MAKE MONEY FOR THE HAWKS?

THE ANSWER TO BOTH ARE JOE JOHNSON.

HOW ABOUT A JOE FOR MONTA ELLIS AND BIEDRENS

JOE IS NOT AN SUPERSTAR

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Crazy night here on this blog!

Rebounds and Joe cost the Hawks the game yesterday. Pistons simply over powered Hawks on the boards. Even Woody was worried about Pistons new lineup before the game, and we all saw why. Hawks stopped them on the first try, second, but Ben Wallace and co just kept coming up with more offensive rebounds and put backs.

Then Joe sucked again.

If Joe is jealous of Crawford, then he needs to snap out of it quickly, because Jamal is here for the next two years and Joe is not. I said it before the season started. Was Crawford an insurance in case Joe does not resign? I expect Joe to step out of his funk, but if he can’t handle Crawford been on the team, then trade his ass!

Have always loved Joe, and first time ever of saying this, but if he is holding the Hawks back, then trade his ass! Hope he resigns, though, and conform to team concept. Bball is a team game, not a one on one. Joe cannot win ballgames by himself.

About Josh and Joe, me thinks right now that Josh is the best Hawks player. He has certainly been the more consistent. ATL Hawks are Josh Smith’s team right now, especially if Joe is planning to jump ship!

KellZ!

Not the first time Woody’s girls will be featured on this blog and probably not the last either. But Bone certainly went above himself this time. Wasn’t so risque before.

Vava74.

Great post @ 3:50am. Best of the night! Them new found Hawks fans seems to think the team should win every game and skyrochet to the top this season, forgetting their lowly past. I just laugh and scroll through when I see their crazy ass posts! Where were they when Hawks won 13 games in an entire season? And we still watched and rooted for them?

NBA records so far, top seven teams:

Phoenix: 14-3. LA: 13-3. Boston: 13-4. Orlando: 14-4. Atlanta: 12-5. Cleveland: 12-5. Denver: 12-5. Add Portland @ 12-7. Have not seen Hawks in such rarified company in eons! Yes they screwed up with Detriot, but they were not going to win every game anyway.

This one sucked, though. I fully expected Hawks to beat Pistons, and Marvin?

Have been trying to build a case for Marvin, but more and more this season, I feel he might be the weakest link. Joe hugs the ball too much and is in slump, Zaza has been a bonehead and Woody is not playing his bench more or yanking Joe out when he is playing bad, but Marvin seems to have regressed, man. Can’t hit open jumpers when he is open! Just like Joe, Marvin has to step up!

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Blast – “Amen”
One small dif. of opinion. You said, and I agree, It’s a team game. Then why do we have to designate one player for it to be “his team”.
Along those lines Josh does not yet have the maturity for such responsibility.

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Grandad,

On the issue of deligating one player to be his team, I think that is more a fault of Woody not taking control and then Joe of taking advantage of his coach not taking control of pulling his best player when he plays out of control!

Simple. If Joe is hurting the team, then take him out! Let him stew and envision all those big dollars he could have been making with the Hawks instead of worrying about free agency and trying to play up to match those $$. The truth is easy. Since Joe declined to sign an extension with Hawks this summer, how much money he will get in free agency will depend on how well the Hawks perform this year. If Hawks sucked and Joe with them, then Joe cannot afford to have Hawks have a sub-par season.

Good night folks. This is me signing off.

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Our next 3gms will be crucial. We play Toronto 12/2, New York 12/4 and Dallas 12/5. The question is, will Woodson try to right the ship by using his bench and allowing the team to return to the style of play that was so effective for us before the last 4gms? Or, will he continue standing on the sidelines with arms folded and encourage JJ, Bibby and Crawford to run ISO’s and shoot jumpers? Will he shorten his rotation and play JJ 40+mins even if he’s stinking up the place?

MIKE IS BACK-it goes both ways. When we were kicking butt the 1st 13 gms, Woodson’s harem was giving him all of the credit and declaring him COY. However, now that the team has reverted back to playing his preferred style of OFF, while losing and getting embarrassed, they’re suddenly silent, except to attack anyone that brings up Woodson’s contributions.

Woodson definitely deserves some credit for what he done with this team, especially during the turbulent period when the ASG, former GM BKnight and Woodson were all at odds. But that time has passed, and he’s got an extension for what he did. This is now. What he accomplished in the past has nothing to do with the present. You hear Woodson apologists talk about the hand he was dealt or what he had to work with way back when. But, these same apologists conviently fail to mention the talent, depth, experience, versatility and athleticism he has at his disposal RIGHT NOW.

When a HC has more to work with, you expect more. All of his apologists conviently forget how we started last season with a 6gm winning streak, only to fall back to reality. It looks like we’re following that same formula again this yr. No one with an actual IQ can tell me Smoove, JJ, Bibby, Marvin, Horford and Crawford all of a sudden decided among themselves to switch from a style of play that generated 108PPG over the forst 13gms to a system that’s generated 88PPG over the last 4gms.

The 3 players that control the ball and the OFF are JJ, Bibby and Crawford, and they also run the ISO’s and one on one’s. Over the last 4gms, Woodson has increased the MPG of each player because they’re running the OFF he wants the team to run, AND THAT SAYS IT ALL!!

And I don’t want to hear any of that crap about it being too early to judge. It certainly wasn’t too early for you Woodson loving idiots to declare him COY when we were on that 7gm winning streak. The man did a good job for us when we were down and out. But he’s obviously over his head now.

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What is coaching but getting players to become the best they can be, then showing that on a nightly basis?

Once I see anyone on the Hawks do anything good on a nightly basis, I’ll say “my bad” and give Woody his due. But the only thing the Hawks are consistent at is inconsistency.

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“The glass is Half Full” by Blonju

dear hawks bloggers,
many of you are compassionate hawks fans that provide well thought out analysis and heartfelt opinions about our hometown team. however, some of you have reverted to witless banter that exceeds the illogical-crazed-fan-limit. it seems with the untimely departure of our good friend, sekou smith, the hawks nest has turned into a bird bath of biblical proportions. we are 12-5 through 17 games, our team is once again ripe for a playoff run & our coveted beat writer has left us with a replacement who wouldn’t know the difference between the hawks and the falcons. granted, woody is battling between his old self and a COY-version of himself that i HAVE seen glimpses of (and keep in mind i virtually hate him); our team chemistry is superficial at best because joe looks like he’d rather be at the club half the time; and jeff teague might as well be acie law the fifth; but we have a promising group of guys in place to contend if healthy at the right time. we don’t NEED a center to win a title – keep in mind that tim duncan has been considered a PF most of his career and has 4 titles. Also, no one can forget detroit in 04. it’s time for ATLANTA FANS to start rooting for their team regardless of where we disagree with coaching or general management. i have to agree with mark bradley that this team is worth paying to see and regardless of what you think the Hawks should do next, remember that we are all rooting for WINS. Except for our disinterested, uninformative new beat writer, our glass should be considered “HALF-FULL.”

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b aka tgoss:
Agreed, mostly, T.Duncan was a center in reality and a legiimate
7 ft. also Det. had B. Wallace a true center [def. presence] regardless of size. Most on here are true Hawk fans and yes we belly-ache about this and that, but we are discussing the team. Would you not prefer fussin’ and debating as opposed to apathy. Isn’t this more fun than a blank blog. Would you come on here to see everyone say go Hawks …
rah rah. Nah, you don’t want that. Norm Sloan [NC State] told this story: “we had David Thompson, Monte Towe and Tom Burleson(7′4); we went undefeated and won the Nat.Championship.” A fan was overheard just after the Nat.Champ. game “you know, we had a great season – but just think how good we could have been if we just had Dean coaching this team.” Fans > You gotta love us! Go Hawks rah rah!

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First, for all of you posters who are waiting on a regular beat writer for this blog : haven’t you been following the news? The newspaper indusrty is dying, employees are jumping/ being pushed out at Cox /AJC faster than a wedding dress at Filenes Basement on sale day. And you know tthat in the southern pantheon of sports pro basketball is ranked just above cricket ,barely. Net net: appreciate what we have while we have it ’cause it ain’t going to be here long.

Second, the good news is that the Hawks are wininng but many of us want more. Well, people in the netherworld probably could use a cold one but…. . Le’t continue to vent our spleen but remember that three years ago we would not no we could believe that the hawks would be where they are today. The team will improve albeit gradually but when the changes come remember that you sometimes should be careful what you pray for.

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RLP- I loved your post. It was mature and reasonable. Therefore, it has no place on this blog. Man, we are having debates like this in the middle of summer; it is just what we do.

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Now’s when you start thinking about Siler just going in with the orders “Clog the middle! Just get in his way!”

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Grandad,

about this:

Sautee:

“Big Al second best [5] in the East.
I would still love to see him get PT @ the [4].
I would still love to see us get a def. minded [5].
Big Al would still be my favorite Hawk.”

I agree wholeheartedly. Astro Joe and I have said it for two years now. Of course, Woody would have to get that player off the bench and in the game, or it wouldn’t do any good.

Grandad, mostly I get bugged about the total hypocrisy of those saying “We’re 12-5, so you Woody bashers should STFU” while at the same time you NEVER hear “We’re 12-5 so Horford must be doing his job well”. No, what you hear is how we STILL need a center, and won’t compete with the “big boys” until we have one. I guess they averted their eyes when we beat Boston IN Boston.

Horford is 23 years old and as you said is arguably the second best center in the East. His scoring numbers could certainly be higher if he were given more touches. He’s 7th in the league in FG% among centers, even though he shoots a LOT more jumpers than any of the 6 ahead of him. And he makes great decisions with the ball, as his 2.0 assists per game shows. As I said in the off season, I’d run the offense through him every third time down the court (not counting fast breaks, obviously).

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trying hard not to hop on the fire Woody train, but he’s making it even harder

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GANBW- Man, calm down. Ken is just here on a temporary basis. He actually has listened to the bloggers and asked question of the team and coach based on our comments. The AJC needs to get the Hawks a beat writer for sure, but really is your life that significantly affected by the blog that you have to type in all caps and take the Lord’s name in vain?

Why don’t you write a blog and post it on here?

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SOULSTAR-I’ve complained about Woodson’s coaching hangups longer and louder than probably anyone, yet I didn’t get on the FIRE WOODY bandwagon. I simply wanted him to overcome his hangups and improve his coaching skills to mirror the teams organic improvement. This is the 2nd consecutive season we’ve seen the team start out playing the way we did the 1st 13gms of this season. It’s also the 2nd consecutive season we’ve seen Woodson grap the reigns and force the team to revert back to playing WOODY BALL, with the same predictable results.

YOU CAN’T TEACH THIS OLD DOG ANY NEW TRICKS, AND IF YOU CAN’T TEACH HIM NEW TRICKS, HOW IN THE HELL IS HE GOING TO TEACH NEW TRICKS TO ANYONE ELSE. As a result, I’m not only getting on the FIRE WOODY BANDWAGON, I’m going to sit next to CLYDE and help him drive the damn thing.

Woodson and his coaching hangups and stubborness have reduced what was a rebounding, attacking, fastbreaking, OFF powerhouse, that was turning it around on DEF, into a rebounding, jumpshooting, halfcourt, ISO, one on one, OFF/DEF weakling.

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December 1st, 2009
10:21 am
Horford is 23 years old and as you said is arguably the second best center in the East. His scoring numbers could certainly be higher if he were given more touches. He’s 7th in the league in FG% among centers, even though he shoots a LOT more jumpers than any of the 6 ahead of him. And he makes great decisions with the ball, as his 2.0 assists per game shows. As I said in the off season, I’d run the offense through him every third time down the court (not counting fast breaks, obviously).
You would think we would get the rock to a young player off to such a good start.

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GET A NEW BEAT WRITER

December 1st, 2009
11:44 am
CAN WE PLEASE GET A NEW BEAT WRITER?

Go to the nest or peach tree hoops if you do not like what you see. Two very good writers.

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Woody= COY vs. Woody needs to be fired, huh? There are those of us on this blog that don’t fit either description and are in the middle.

Woody=COY means:

1. The Hawks won 60 or more games.
2. The Hawks ended up with the regular season record in the NBA.
3. The Hawks won the SE division.

Woody needs to be fired means:
1. The Hawks won less games than last season.
2. The Hawks fell below second place in the SE division.
3. The Hawks didn’t even go to the playoffs and fell down to the 5th-8th seed.

Now as a Hawks fan I would have to say I would rather Coach Woodson be COY than fired because it would mean the Hawks had a successful season and progressed even further than last season.

And to be honest and fair Coach Woodson has invested in the Hawks team just as much as anybody else that’s been around the past few seasons. He deserves to try to see his vision come to completion. There is no doubt the team is on the right track and headed towards the right direction. Sunday just showed the team what direction the team doesn’t want to go. We all need wake up calls and reminders. The loss to Detroit is just that.

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Ken,

We disagree on many things but I like your posts. If we all agreed, it would get pretty slow around here.

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Bret LaGree
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/?gcid=C12289×022&gtkw=Hoopinion

Bret breaking it down. Good reading for hawk fans over the last couple of games.

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Woodson is now quoted in the ajc as saying that he doesn’t pay attention to minutes he just plays whom ever is playing well. Hmmm.
If I recall correctly, before the season started he was saying that he was not going to burn his starters out as he admitted to doing during the 2008-09 season. What gives?

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IF Woodson only played who was playing well then Marvin would stay glued to the bench. That is not a true statement from Mr. Woodson.

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RLP-You demonstrated a very high degree of intelligence and articulation in the way you presented you comments to me, and trust me, that didn’t go unnoticed or unappreciated. You stated: “THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS”. Well, isn’t that exactly what I’ve been complaining about, along with a number of others, about Woodson and his coaching issues?

You also stated: “ON THE ISSUE OF WOODY, I THINK MZ. HAWKDAFIED HAD IT ABOUT RIGHT. THERE REALLY ARE THREE DIFFERING POINTS OF VIEW”. One is for, one is against and one is rather neutral, which appears to be your position. My problem with you is you’ve chosen to single out 1 of the approaches, which appears to be the one that’s most opposed to yours, designated me as the representative of that approach, and you’re trying to apply a subtle type of censorship.

I can understand you wanting to censor the vulgarity and nastiness that’s prevalent among certain uncivilized and disturbed bloggers. However, to try and limit someone from expressing their opinions simply because they’re being presented too often for your taste is a whole lot worse.

There’s an old saying, “AN OUNCE OF PREVENTION IS WORTH A POUND OF CURE”. While some of you are willing to defer your judgement of Woodson’s overall coaching abilities, I’m not. In high school, I was taught to reward effort over results. It’s like a high school senior that brings home an A in English. The parents are so excited about the results(the A)they’re oblivious to the fact their little A student has difficulty correctly putting a decent sentence together.

Too many Hawk fans are so enamored with whatever positive results the team can get, after yrs of frustration, they are oblivious to the fact our HC has some serious flaws that’s actually preventing the team from doing much better.

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ILL-LOGICAL/SAUTEE- That’s exactly why I included him being a lier in my earlier posts. He’s done a complete 180 on just about everything he promised he’d improve upon at the beginning of the season. And you’re correct, he started his, and the teams, transformation after halftime of the Orlando gm, and we’ve been playing WOODY BALL and playing poorly every since.

Man, I hope Woodson wises up and gets this team turned around. I have to agree with MZ. HAWKDAFIED. I’d rather see him earn COY than get fired. I want this to be a statement yr for the Hawks.

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Yes Ken Strickland for NEW BEAT WRITER!!!!!

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Look who top NBA.com for best offseason acquisition. I know somewhere Astro Joe is smiling….

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/shaun_powell/12/01/offseason.moves/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

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Typical hawk hater’s blog.

Fire that gott damm@#$^##$%*^#$@! woodson! mudder fck woodsons$#$#%&^%&^ASE@%@#$%%%^%Fire that gott damm@#$^##$%*^#$@! woodson! mudder fck woodsons$#$#%&^%&^ASE@%@#$%%%^%Fire that gott damm@#$^##$%*^#$@! woodson! mudder fck woodsons$#$#%&^%&^ASE@%@#$%%%^%Fire that gott damm@#$^##$%*^#$@! woodson! mudder fck woodsons$#$#%&^%&^ASE@%@#$%%%^%. AZZHOLE!

play teague. Good luck aZzhole woodson. go hawks.

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*I don’t sent much correction.

I don’t spend much time giving space

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*losing streak
*Woodson is ranked number 2 on the coach of the year poll. Josh, JJ, Bibby and Crawford are all having a pretty good year.

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“We talked a little bit and shared some philosophies and things like that,” Sund said. “Next week at this time, it might be a more appropriate question. But today I can’t answer it.”

Woodson’s contract is up at the end of the month, and a dismal record of 106-222 (.323) would appear to make him a prime candidate for unemployment.

But the Hawks have made steady progress during his four years, going from a franchise-worst 13-69 in his debut to 37-45 this season, good enough for the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. Woodson’s prospects were further enhanced when Atlanta took the heavily favored Boston Celtics to seven games in the opening round before losing.

“One of the things I liked about Atlanta was they had a game plan,” Sund said. “It’s not always easy to stick with the game plan, to go through the highs and lows of playing the younger players and developing them. Most teams are into that instant gratification. Some of it came to fruition this year and they were able to say, ‘Hey, this team is pointed north.’ That’s a good thing.”

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Truth-Serum,

Your sanity is another’s madness. Like needing a center, getting rid of Marvin, fire Woody, bench JJ on off nights, play Teague more, Josh shooting threes, our guards can’t guard their guards, PT for bench etc. All are examples of opinion. What you call keeping it real is your real, not my real. Lots of different versions of real out there.
I am older and have no problem with diversity of opinion.

What is more interesting is that in spite of all of our warts we are winning. Shows our tremendous upside potential if we solve even half our problems.

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NBA TV

They think Josh has exellent chance of DPOY. Maybe making All-Star game.

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I say what good is it to play big and win games against the elite teams but looks like boo-boo against the lesser teams?? I just dont understand!! I understand we cant and will not win all 82 games but there is 0/zero excuse as to why we didnt play the defense that we displayed in the earlier games or why we didnt pass the ball and get team assits like we did before. I know, I know Woodson has been here since we were 13-69 and all but as a coach, he should have prepared his team better, to get their minds focus on the team they are about to play and not have them assume they are just going to run over a team who has 3 missing scorers on the sidelines. If we are going to be an elite team, we must ALWAYS…ALWAYS play like one, weither win or lose!!

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As an aside, Grandad, Mark Bradley hasn’t posted on the Hawks since then. He posts about 8 articles on Tech/UGA Football, 8 on the Falcons, and 9 on the Braves for every 1 article that he posts about the Hawks (and the handful of Hawks pieces he does write are almost always bunched in at the beginning and end of the season).

Considering that he has an AJC expense account that would allow him to attend and watch Hawks games for free but still barely even talks about the Hawks during the regular season, I find it ironic that he wrote an article talking about how he’d pay to watch them.

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NBA power ranking

Orlando – 81 million
PHX – 75
Lakers – 91
Boston – 81
Denver – 75
Atlanta – 65
Clev – 82
Dallas – 89
Utah – 82

10 – 26 million more in salary by every team with a better or equal record. Must mean Woody = COY.

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Truth-Serum,

With an extra 25 million maybe we could have Bosh instead of ZaZa. Chills instead of Evans and a Guard that can play defense.

You may know the old saying, if buts and ifs were cherries and nuts – we would all have a merry Christmass.

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True Kevin. I’m not a bosh man. he too soft for my style of play. Id trade Lopez for horford head up and keep zaza. or Trade, zaza, collins and Maurice for Lopez Make lopez the started and horford backing up josh and lopez.

Of course if a frog had a glass azz every time hed jump……hed break it!

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RLP that team did not make it to the championship round either, that would have been the 76ers and the Celtics. Then was Chamberlain and russel, now its Howard and Shaq. I suspect the results will be the same. Hawks when a lot of game but not enough of a center to advance to the finals level.

Go post by the way.

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RLP:
Yes, as a matter of fact, I have mentioned Z.Beaty on this board previously. I’m not very good at remembering exact yrs. etc. I was a young lad at the time. I mentioned Bells because ZB only played one yr. in Atl.[6-9,225].Probably would be a [4] today. Not much NBA on TV back in the day. I actually listened to the Hawks on the radio quite a bit. My favorite Skip Carey story: he said he knew he had arrived as a broadcaster when on one evening at the end of regulation he needed to relieve himself urgently. He was on the radio by himself (down front on press row). The Hawks went into 3 overtimes and Skip made good use of a coca cola cup. He said no one even noticed and he didn’t skip a beat.
Have you ever wondered what the fate, tradition, and perception of ‘our’ franchise would be now had we not traded Bill Russell?
I imagine alot on this board do not even realize the Hawks did that.
The Hawks might still be in St.Louis. Most, probably think that trading Nique or drafting Marv and Sheldon were the franchise’ biggest blunders. At the time trading a [just drafted] rookie for a 6 time
all-star and Cliff Hagan didn’t look so bad. Who knew BR would go down in history as one of the 3 or 4 best/greatest players of all-time.
For those of you who missed my point…cut Marvin some slack.

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Good to hear Mario West is in the D-League. Love the kid. I wish our Hawks would play with his effort & heart every night. If we did we’d easily win our division and net Woody COY. Will it really happen…we’ll see how well the boys have matured. In the end it falls on the players to grow up, play together and be professional every night. We’ve had a 5 game break. It’s time to get back on board!

The night and day nature of our team reflects #1 maturity and #2 professionalism. Should Woody use his bench to send a message – YES. Will he – NO! I pray he figures out the problem before next spring when we’re limping into the playoffs. Too many tools on the bench not to use them. I think we’re slacking because our starters are losing focus. They need a break. Using the bench would accomodate that.

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Marvin is not the biggest blunder. Wouldn’t that be Keefe, Priest, Koncack, Rumeal, McCloud….and the list goes on and on. At least Marvin played. We’ve got a solid history of drafting crap prior to this group.

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KevinA ,

Knowing where you stand is one thing. Knowing your role is something else completely. I think I’ll just leave it at that.

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Ray,

They know their roles,

Tell me if I am wrong, JJ is alfa dog, Jamal has become like Flip, respecting the alfa dog but knows he is not subservient and has the green light. Josh being the dominant big needs the ball from all the guards and has emerged as the second option. Bibby clearly has become the 4th option instead of last years second option, but as a good vet has played smart. Al and Marvin are in lala land and still trying to find their roles. They need the team and the team needs them but they don’t really care about being 5th or sixth option – they just want to contribute and be relevant.

The bench plays so little – why go on.

Spoken or un spoken – there is a pecking ordrer.

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I think Jamal knows his role, but JJ might be trying to do too much to maintain his status as alpha. Josh and Al need the touches consistently to develop. The games we do that we win, others we use our “highpowered guards” to shoot us out of the game. It’s just like Orlando – without the inside game the perimeter shots don’t fall. Marvin’s odd man out every time.

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Definitely right on track with you Grandad. I just wish folks would quit focussing on how Marvin isn’t this or that. The kid has talent. He’s just under so much pressure to perform. Like you said, so much presssure to perform in a system that doesn’t work with him. We need his perimeter game and he can slash once his outside shot opens up the middle. I just don’t think he’ll develop here without something changing. I would like to see he, Crawford and Teague get some consistent minutes together along with Collins, ZaZa and Joe Smith as a solid second unit. I guess the only question is would Mo provide enough solid D and rebounding with the 1st team? Who else could we use there? I just think that would alleviate some of the pecking order on the 1st team while giving more power to the 2nd unit.

Too many drafts have I spent crying about WHO IS THAT! %#$%@#%! Maybe next year .

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Are all of you Hawk fans as excited about the gm tonight, and the Hawks overall, as you were the first 12.5 gms of the season? Didn’t we have the same excitement last yr during our season opening 6gm winning streak, only to end up experiencing the same feeling of letdown we’re now feeling? Didn’t the team also experience a sudden switch in style of play, where we stopped playing the uptempo style of ball that led to the streaks, seemingly overnight, and started playing WOODY BALL?

CAN WE ALL SAY DEJA VU.

Where do we place the blame. Some believe it’s all MWilliams fault, or JJ’s fault, or the lack of a true center, or it’s Horford and/or Smoove playing out of position. Then some believe it’s just an abrerration, and we’ll return to our previous dominance if I keep quiet and pretend not to notice for the entire month of December. Some believe it’s Woodson’s coaching philosophy and his fanatical insistance on forcing the team to play his beloved WOODY BALL. In each case, the results of this style of play has always caused the team to be irratic, boring, inconsistent, and has caused friction among the players, with the HC, AND WE GENERALLY START LOSING.

I firmly believe the Hawks have been a losing franchise overall because both fans and management have been unwilling to demand excellence from the team and its owners. We’ve been content to accept the status quo. How many times have we read, BUT WE’RE WINNING, OR WE’VE INCREASED OUR WIN TOTAL EACH OF THE LAST 5 YR’s. Well, here are the facts:

(1)We have one of the NBA’s worst, if not the worst, won/loss records over the last 5yrs.

(2)We’ve had only one winning season in the last 5 yrs.

(3)We have no identity as a team. Are we the fastbreaking, uptempo, attacking, inside out team that’s started strong and gotten the attention of the NBA each of the last 2 seasons? Or, are we the halfcourt, ISO, one on one, guard dominated, perimeter oriented, jumpshooting team we suddenly become after each winning streak, that just as suddenly, can’t compete with below average losing teams?

If we fans complain enough and display our dissatisfaction with the way the team is being handled, or in this case, mishandled, maybe an AJC beat writer will make it known to someone in management, which might facilitate a change. I AM NOT GOING TO STAND BY QUIETLY, FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME, AND ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY, OR THE STATUS QUO. I’M GOING TO DEMAND EXCELLENCE, OR AT LEAST AN ATTEMPT TO GET TO THAT LEVEL.

How many teams with winning traditions have fired HC’s with winning records? Their fans and management are striving for excellence. Woodson has been the Hawks HC for 5yrs, before this season. He has increased the number of wins each yr, he’s led the team to consecutive playoff appearances, and yet the powers that be haven’t seen fit to rate that worthy enough to annoint him COY or offer a contract extension. Why, because vitually every NBA HC could taken this team, after starting out with 13 wins, and increased the win total with the addition of new talent each yr. They also realized this team was dead in the water and going nowhere near the playoffs until Bibby arrived in 07/08. If anything, former GM BKnight deserves the credit for that. Woodson’s greatest achievement was his ability to keep the team focused and playing hard during the turbulent ownership mess and his issues with BKnight.

He’s obviously feeling the pressure brought about by some of his decisions and moves. Why else would he say he doesn’t pay attention to the OFF, or he doesn’t pay attention to mins. He doesn’t pay attention to developing rookie and young PG’s either. An assistant coach can make those kind of statements, because their responsibilities are limited. But to hear that crap from the HC, who’s responsible for every phase of the team, says it all. This is a man that’s wearing the title and welding the authority of a HC, but he’s thinking and approaching the job like he’s still a DEF coordinator.

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KevinA – mr.w. is not an old school coach. That is disrepectful to those gentlemen who were not afraid of their players. Case in point,
fear of pulling/yanking/benching Joe. Two; argues with Josh. Old school coaches would never have engaged in open heated discussion with a subordinate. He (O.S.C.) also would have put Josh’s hind on the pine.
The same if Josh had continued to take low % shots against his wishes.
Sorry, he’s not an OSC to me, rather an insecure bully with very little discernable substance.
Along those lines; why does there have to be an Alpha dawg,1st,2nd,3rd and so on option? It is a team game. Establish an inside presence and after that pass it to the player that is the most open. Basketball is a simple game. Why does everyone complicate matters by trying to determine ahead of time who’s gonna shoot? Play to your strengths [K.S.has been on a torrent for weeks about where is our running game], not some ranking of who’s who on the Hawks. Alpha Joe couldn’t pee a drop v. Det. so give it up to Beta dawg. You say Josh is #2 option…what if a team allows Josh to shoot, leaves him open. They already do that from the perimeter, begging him to launch.[Josh doesn't shoot he launches]What about attacking a teams weaknesses,and on, and on, and on…
Sorry about the rant KevinA, it was most assuredly not directed at you.

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Definitley good commentary on Marvin. Defining his role is finding his niche. Early on the shots weren’t falling, but he was involved on D and on the boards. Lately he seems to drift into wondering why he’s on the court. Basketball is a team game. Teams get everyone involved. That’s when we start creaming people. This pounding and pecking isn’t Woody Ball. It’s selfish, losing ball.

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KEVIN A-I think your statement about a player knowing exactly where he stands with Woody is misleading. I’m certain Joe Smith, JCollins, RMorris and MEvans know where they stand now, but was that the case when they decided to sign with the team? Do you really think JCollins would have signed with us if he had any idea Woodson would give him the treatment he’s now receiving? What about Joe Smith, who refused to resign with Cleveland because of the same treatment he’s now receiving from Woodson. Do you think MEvans or RMorris will even give resigning with the Hawks a consideration after their contracts expire if Woodson is still the HC?

If you were a FA and figured you could help a team, after seeing what has happened to most of the rookies and FA’s under Woodson, would you sign with Atlanta and risk getting glued to the end of the bench, which definitely wouldn’t further your career or chances of getting another decent contract?

Isn’t it ironic, Woodson is rapidly damaging the chances of the teams ability to attract quality FA’s, and he’s totally against dealing with draft picks. I CALL THAT A CATCH 22, AND A DAMNED SHAME.

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Just like the laker went after pau gasol and won the title i say lets go after andris biedrins 2 make the hawks better.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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BIG RAY-Yes, this yrs team is a lot healthier than last yrs team, so far, and Smoove has improved tremendously. However, that really emphasizes my point, and illustrates how the sudden drop in the overall performances of last yrs and this yrs team, after getting off to strong starts, wasn’t manifested by injuries, player discord or development. After we matched Orlando bucket for bucket in the 1st half, it’s like Woodson flipped a switch and we started doing all of the things he said he’d change, and we’ve become an inconsistent, unmotivated, boring, noncompetitive team, like last yr. The DEJA VU is in reference to what seems to always happen to us after an extended winning streak. We don’t just lose a gm or two, we completely become a different team, in results as well as in style of play.

Whenever we’ve had an extended winning streak, we’ve played fastbreaking basketball and attacked the basket. I have no doubt Woodson appreciates the results, but he seems obcessed with trying to establish his own idenity, like his mentors BKnight and LBrown, and get those same results by forcing the team play his WOODY BALL. It seems when the team gets on a roll, he figures everything is going well, so he’ll take advantage of the teams momentum and make them switch to playing WOODY BALL, and that’s when everything comes to a scretching halt.

Unless the team continues to faulter, Woodson won’t be fired before the end of the season. This team is very talented, experienced, athletic, versatile and deep, and has shown it can win in spite of Woodson. So, I don’t think they’ll risk adding additional fuel to the fire by forcing the players to adjust to a new HC, especially if the person they might want to replace him with isn’t already on staff.

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Also, it’s basically impossible to trade Marvin until June 30 because of his BYC status – if we did trade him, it would have to be in a package with JJ, Smoove, or Crawford and we’d have to take back $16M or more in salary. Hate to break the suspense, but that ain’t gonna happen. But I know that small details like the NBA salary cap rules won’t stop people from calling for it anyway.

Horford is fine at center, and it’s really getting perplexing watching people continue to rail that he isn’t despite the fact that even his detractors admit that he one of the top 5-6 in the league at center right now. Similarly, Josh is a PF. He is not a SF. He is probably the league’s best help defender, and no coach in their right mind would play him significant minutes at a position where he’d spend most of his time on the perimeter.

So even if we could trade Marvin (which we really can’t), it should be for an upgrade at SF, not for a center. And it should be a versatile defender who won’t mind being the 4th or 5th option on offense, because that’s all he’ll be. Andrei Kirilenko would fit the bill perfectly. I can’t think of anyone else who would.

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I never said trade Marvin and yes you’ve reposted those comments a thousand times. I realize Marvin’s most likely not moving. That’s why I suggested moving him to the 2nd rotation as a feature. Maybe Collins was supposed to be the answer, but what do we do when teams with some brawn roll in and out muscle Horford all night? Past few games he’s gotten used like toilet paper down low. What bigs are on the horizon to even shoot for? We missed some chances this summer. Where do we go for a big physical defensive pressence to give Al a break. It’s obvious Collins won’t be allowed to play, he’s sharing his popcorn with Randmo. Z is looking a bit lackluster and disinterested and Joe Smith is only used at PF conservatively. If we’re not going to use pieces who can we pursue with their $$ once they get tired of being glued to the bench all year.

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Sky is falling here – heavy rain. I’ve argued Woodson deserves a chance, Marvin needs a defined goal/role, Al is great, but won’t hold up long term and needs help, JJ is selfish and insecure, Crawford is definitely content as advertised. We knew what we were getting when we got him. He’s an upgrade from Flip, but he’s definitely always been a streak type player. Definitely an assett & 6th man of the year.

I definitely need tonight’s game!

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Fundamentals- what do you mean by long term?

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Fundamentals- I strongly disagree with you that JJ is either insecure or selfish. This rumor only cropped up to explain a small stretch of poor shooting by Joe, and a refusal by Woodson to put him on the pine. He is selfish because he wants to make the most money he can at his profession? Well, then I guess we all are, and should be selfish in that area of our lives. Joe gives a great deal of time and money to support charities and community groups in Atlanta and Arkansas. So be very careful with labeling someone selfish. He is insecure about Jamaal? What? How? I thought he was getting too many minutes and shots, now he is insecure that he is getting less? He is insecure that Crawford somehow lessens his value as a free agent? Good grief, no GM, agent, coach or player sees Jamall Crawford as viable option for Joe and his presence in Atlanta does NOT affect his next contract value in anyway.

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“He is not a SF. He is probably the league’s best help defender, and no coach in their right mind would play him significant minutes at a position where he’d spend most of his time on the perimeter.”

I love certitude and conviction, it’s so self rightous-especially when it involves specious reasoning and is devoid of objective fact.

First, asuming a player can meet the minimum standards of bilogical existence, they can play any position; the more probitive question is how well can they play it/ And the derivitve of that argument is what is required by a particular set of circumstances,ie the offensive / defensive approach of the particular team.

The determination of the players value-what he/she can contribute to the teams ultimate goal,viz winning- turns on not only on their individual skill set but how well it blends into the team’s strategy.

The statements regarding the capability of player J to perform the duties required of position 3 fails to state what the requirments for the position are;the implied assumption is that there are no circumstances where player J’s skills could perform reasonbly to positively affect their team’s success no matter what the duration of the performance or the system underwhich the srvice is to rendered is.

And the presumption advanced that there is afore knowledge of the state of mind of all coaches as to their decision making proces aand or coaching philosphy raises substantive questions about rational thought and the capacity to engage therein.

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nire- I am not trying to trade Marvin, just giving another player of Kierlenko’s ability in terms of BB IQ and effort. He is a poor man’s AK47, but he is definitely an upgrade over MO. I know he is out. This whole thing was theoretical, anyway.

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Ill- wait a minute, now. All respect, but it is not fair to cloud the issue of Josh playing the 3 by suggesting that basically there are no certainties in life, and no one has complete knowledge of what coaches are thinking. That is a lot of smoke.

It is not that Josh can’t play the 3, but why would you move the guy who has worked so hard to limit his outside shot, improve his post play, improve his rebounding and continue his outstanding help defense to the point that he is playing at All Star levels to position that would take him out of the position that plays to his advantages?

Ultimately, is comes down to Does moving Al to the 4 (theoretically upgrading his game) and Josh to 3 (theoretically down grading his) improve the team overall?

I say no way, especially when taking in the facts that Josh is tearing it up at the 4 and Al is honestly and All Star candidate at the 5.

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Fair enough, Daniel. I don’t think Azubuike would give us what we need at the 3, though, even when healthy. Bringing him in would really amount to shifting Joe to the 3 and starting him at 2, because that usually will be better than trying the reverse. I definitely agree that he’s an upgrade over Mo, but my point in bringing Mo up was that I don’t think Azubuike has the height to be even a poor man’s AK47, because the most unique thing about AK is his ability to defend big men as well as perimeter players – a quality that Azuibuike doesn’t have. I.e. Azubuike is a 2/3 swingman (like Mo), while AK47 is a true combo forward.

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If you read the excellent and diverse comments that’s been posted over the last couple of hours, you’ll see why it would be crazy to try and limit anyone’s involvement, especially if their comments are constructive, serious, intelligent, civil and well presented, and that’s not a reference to grammar.

I also love this forum because these diverse ideas are presented in diverse ways. While I’m an in your face type of person, others present their opinions in a less direct manner, but are certainly no less effective in their presentation. I basically see 2 things that hold most of us together. (1)We’re all Hawk fans that want the best for the team, and (2)we all know the team could and should be doing better.

And like some of you, I’m starting to suffer from withdrawal anxiety waiting for tonights gm. GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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Fundamentals- bring back down now. I haven’t said anything to personally attack you. Let me assure you that I watch every single Hawks game, most of the home games from the stands. Let me also assure that I do know basketball and have watched and played A LOT of basketball. We can disagree about Joe’s performance, but do not insult my b-ball love, commitment or insight.
You said that Joe’s struggles, WHICH ARE OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE OVER THE LAST 4-5 GAMES, are due to him being selfish and insecure. I say that he was having a bad shooting night and trying to do what your shooting guard is supposed to do which is continue to shoot. Clearly the team plays better when the ball is moving, which is true for every single basketball team since the begining of time, so I didn’t think I needed to restate the obvious.
The results of the season are obvious, excellent overall performance, with a recent spate of poor play from EVERYONE including Joe.
I just disagree that the root of the poor play is Joe’s supposed insecurity and selfishness.

Are we clear?

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I can’t remember who said what but here goes. Josh has all the tools to play the [3]. We switch like crazy anyway so don’t worry about help defense. A player can switch even when in help pos. so if we wanted we could constantly keep him in help pos. If he truly wants to be def. player of the yr. then playing the [3] is where that will happen [Battier]. Ill-logical, I apologize but I admit that I’m a little too dense to comprehend all that you said.

I’m with ds on Biedrins – niremetal exactly what restrictions are there on trading Marv. PLEASE understand I’m not advocating the trade of Marv, just reacting to your statement, which I don’t keep up with all the trade restrictions,etc.

I think some of you are not understanding all that Fundamentals is saying.

Josh and Joe are both well rounded players which fill up the stat sheet.
Both have strengths and weaknesses (Joe-reb./Josh-Foul shooting). I’m glad we have both. However, if it ever becomes clear that JOE is leaving, then we must move him (before tr. deadline if pos). Yes, Joe has been playing differently this yr. and one can only speculate as to the cause.

I am a proponent of Big Al moving to the [4]. That does not make me a critic of Al. He is a victim of circumstances.

niremetal: *Purely for fun and speculation as I doubt Mr. Sund reads what I have to say for ideas, but what would have to occur for a Biedrins trade prior to deadline. (particularly Marv) I do disagree that we should only trade Marv for a [3]. We have options within our team now but that’s a can of worms for later.

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