Hawks-Hornets

Wow,

Shout out to all my HATERS. Really did not know you guys liked me so much. NIRECLOWN, KEN STRCKLAND, TERRELL BARRON, MICHELLEFROMATL and whoever else who chose to bash my name while I was not on the blog. As it has been reported by a couple of your own, Sam from the Swats is not me. I won’t even go into that anymore.

First of all, since all of you STANS want to know where I am, if you do your research, I never post during the home games because, I AM AT THE GAME. Some of you should consider going to the game. Contrary to popular belief, I will be the first person to give Marvin credit when he plays well. CONGRATULATIONS MARVIN. I personally hope that he makes me eat my words, but I doubt it. He had one great game. He typically does this once or twice a year, and then turns back into the MARVIN you all know and love. Some of you made statements like he’s back….. HE WAS NEVER HERE. I personally don’t expect Marvin to give us 25 to 30 a night. I expect him to be able to knock down open jumpshots, since no one guards him, rebound, which he does do well, and defend the other teams best player, which he has not been able to do this year. He has been good at one of those three things so far this year, and is having his worst year ever. A shooting slump should not keep you from hustling, and having some energy while you are on the court. I do realize that one of you is related to Marvin, might be his dad, so I understand your frustration with me.

Please HATERS, lets not forget some of the arguments that we have had about Marvin. I told you Marvin was not a better basketball player than Josh, when Josh was going thru his contract situations you said he was. I think I was correct on that. You told me that Marvin was better than Ariza, Granger (Ken)…., I said he was not. I was correct. I said that we should not pay Marvin 7.5 to 8 million per year, the numbers prove me correct. I said Marvin was not our best man to man defender, and obviously we all know that Joe Johnson is. I told you that our best lineup will be with Joe and Jamal on the floor together, you told me that we would be terrible on defense with that lineup, I was correct. You told me that Jamal Crawford could not run the point, I said he could. I actually expect the second highest draft pick on our roster to be able to carry his team, I guess you don’t. I AM NOT KEN STRICKLAND. If Marvin consistently plays well, I will stop talking about him, and based on history, I don’t think that I will ever have to stop. ONE GAME DOES NOT A SEASON MAKE. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG MARVIN.

CP,

Grew up right in front of Lakeshore so yes I know about those Lancers.

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Let’s get a win tonight. They have been doing an awesome job finishing games, and I think that they have enough guys that can pick up slack when things get tough. Let’s go hawks!

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I MUS WRITE * Note from previous blog.

Tough Sybil * Ditto

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Everyone’s talking about the flight between games, but remember it’s a short flight to New Orleans on a charter. It’s not like they had to fly to Seattle. Hawks should be fine.

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After tonights gm the Hawks will have a nice 5 day break to prepare for their big showdown with Orlando. If Marvin is really back, we’ll have a lot of weapons for them to contend with.

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I think woody should not have played Joe 45 minutes last night 6-19 and Mo 2 minutes 0-0. We are winning, but I still think woody sucks.

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what channel on COMCAST is the game on?

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Rod -Nice assessment of Marvin-I just ne a consistent 14 /7 and solid Defense,Well see……What no love for Perry Mason, “Nirclown” Boi you wild’n out right now LOL

Really tho you dont wanna get pulled over and “Them People’ find a mysterious white powder in ur ride- Im tell’n you man The Dunkin Donuts Crew aient bull shyt’n LOL

Hawksta watch yaself -Ray is the Police KING KONG aient got nuthn on him!!!
GrandPa-Who is this Sybil that you speak of?…. Are you on that sauce LOL…….I am – Charrdonay Blanc, I dont drink anymore i just sip

Cheers to me!!!!! GEAUX HAWKS!!!

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these are not your father’s hawks

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Wow, messy first few minutes, haha

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what happened to bibby

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please don’t let him be injured

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He’s headed to the locker room

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Damn Divid West with the hard foul!

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Oh no! The injury bug.

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get zaza outta there and put in joe smith

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Zaza’s offense is horrendous

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Somebody better stay close to Peja. Marry and lock him down like a virgin bride! Don’t leave him for a second!

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Is Marvin on the court? I knew he would be good one game and non existant the next. Hopefully he can shut me up but I doubt he will.

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Have the Hornets been to the line once tonight?

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Jamal is heating up

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Peja is their only true scorer, am I the only one that realizes that? Find the f…king shooter, gee whiz….You shut him down you win by 15 easily. Here we go with Marvin and the inconsistency. Everybody is hype that he did well last night, I need to see two nights in a row. Let’s go!!

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Marvin’s had knock out his hands twice on layups! Just sayin…

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was any body surprised to hear Dominque say that was a “heat check” when Peja finally missed that last 3 point attempt? And where would the hawks be witjout Jamaal Crawford……dude has his shot going tonight again.

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Marvin’s had the ball knocked out of his hands twice on layups! Just sayin…

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Let’s see if Acie I mean JT get’s some burn tonight

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Joe is obviously tired

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yeah speaking of Teague……I am not liking his body language when I see him sitting on the bench…….seems like he is getting a lil frustated when he is not in the game.

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Joe J. is really struggling tonight

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This is the reason Crawford can’t start!

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And thiis is why Marvin needs to stop playing like a scrub. When Joe isn’t on Marvin needs to step up.

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just sloppy

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Mo Evans getting some real minutes here tonite.

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dang, that was joe’s first point? lets go hawks, pick it up!

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Where are all those people who thought Marvin was so good after that fluke game by him last night. Another vanishing act

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It doesn’t matter if Teague gets mins or not anymore his confidence has already been destroyed by the Woodpecker Woodson

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Hawks just cannot buy a bucket!

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This is embarrasing

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The hawks better go on a run

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Teague gets bodied too easily… he needsa get stronger

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Good to see us cutting into it here.

Marvin providing the spark.

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lol……surprisingly I didnt hear Dominque say “heat check” on that miss by Marvin

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Hope we can get it down under 5 here before we get to the half.

Must stay within striking distance.

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Hawks and Hornets playin football lol.

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Hawks still will win this game. I wouldn’t play Bibby no more in this game if he really can’t move well on that ankle.

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Now they’re starting to heat up. And Teague is just not ready. Imagine if we had Brandon Jennings.

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Damn.

Guess it’s not bad considering how bad the Hawks played that half. But it’s just so frustrating watching us come out as flat as we were. Don’t know how much of that has to do with us playing a back to back or if they just came out sleeping on the Hornets.

Down 7 at halftime means the starters will continue to play heavy minutes throughout the 2nd half.

Pound the ball inside. Attack the basket. We settled for too many jumpers early in that half.

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imus, too funny from last blog, problem is only thong i get excited about is the one i can get my hands on.

making a comeback here.

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WOODSON IS A YOUNG PG KILLER

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I’m glad Teague got those 2 fouls. On one play it looked Al could’ve had his 3rd, but Teague got it.

If Bibby was in, we’d probably be down much more. We need Craw in to guard Collison and take advantage of him.

We need to come out in the 2nd half with energy and need something from ZaZa or Joe Smith. I do not want to spend the next 5 days going into a rough Orlando game thinking about how we lost to this miserable lineup

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People were saying that about Teague? NBA ready? I mean, I just don’t remember hearing that.

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We looked worse or as bad in this 1st half as we did vs. Portland. This team we’re playing just beat PHX. I hope Joe or Smoove go off on them.

I like Smoove’s hustle, but he gambles on EVERYTHING.

And does anyone else wish Josh would STFU? Arguing with refs DOES NOT get you calls.

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Marvin, that was ill advised

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if you guys were listening to any of the reports comming out of the hawks summer league, then you would have heard that statement that Jeff Teague is ” NBA” ready.

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i love how bad okafor is at freethrows

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Man Josh is turning into his old self. Taking jumpers. Well that only took 13 games.

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JOSH U CANNOT MAKE A JUMPSHOT. WHY DO U KEEP TAKIGN THEM

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Jumper.

After Jumper.

After Jumper.

Are the gaurds so drained that they can’t penetrate? That might set up some open looks from the outside.

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I’m afraid Super Josh has turned into Normal Josh. *SIGH*

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lol everybody jumpin off the band wagon blaming it all on josh smh

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Peja is now gonna torch Mo

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Good play Al

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another 3

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Man we just can’t put together a run. We keep cutting it, then making stupid mistakes.

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How many open looks does Evans see beyond the arc? The guy can’t seem to knock one down.

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lol another 3

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Mo is garbage. He can’t hit anything

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Get Evans out of the game. The guy missed an open look, then he fails to rotate to help out JJ who went in to double West. Evans is supposed to rotate there…

Get him out of the game.

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ok how in the hec are they leaving these guys open for all of these freakin 3’s???????? And they just keep on hitting them!!!!

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If it wasnt for jamaal Crawford, hawks would probaly be down by 30.

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Mo fumbles. so typical

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Put that shotclock violation on JJ. The guy just dribbles, dribbles, and dribbles and then passes it to Evans with 2 left on the clock? Common man.

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Marvin loses the ball every f.ckin time. SERIOUSLY.

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HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY BE DOWN 11 TO THIS TEAM? DID NO ONE IN THE LOCKERROOM THINK THIS MIGHT BE A TRAP GAME, THAT NOH WOULD WANT REDEMPTION ON US?

NO, WOODSON EMPHASIZES DEFENSE, BUT HELEN KELLER WOULD SHOW MORE HEART OUT THERE THAN FREAKING MO EVANS WHO HAS BLOWN ABOUT 9 POINTS WORTH OF OFFENSE. THIS IS WHY WE AREN’T THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. EVERY YEAR THERE’S A FLUKE TEAM LIKE SEATTLE 4 OR 5 YEARS AGO. I AM SO DISAPPOINTED AND PISSED OFF WITH THIS EFFORT

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Dang man. Just reading this blog I am afraid to watch the game.

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I don’t see the hawks coming back to win this. It’s just not their night. They don’t have the energy after last night. At least they get to rest up for the Magic. Thats an important game.

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cmon 4th quarter! and ken, i doubt teague will be back in… unless it’s the last 2 mins and theyre up by atleast 10.

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And the Hornets are playing with confidence now. They know they can take us…

GET EVANS OUT OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!

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ok……….this game is ova’

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Stops don’t mean nothing if they can’t capitalize.

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yea preston I’m pretty much threw with this game. I’m looking forward to the Magic.

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get teague out

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Damn Jeff Teague

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i agree i hope the “FANS” will be ok and not jump off the wagon

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Hawks didn’t have a team in the summer league. I read every single tweet from Sekou and everyone else. Just never saw that NBA ready one. We shall see I suppose, my guess would be that he is not though. Hopefully he will be soon.

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ken, BONE is right. MARVIN cannot dribble the ball

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You dudes given in to early SMH!!! Hope I never get involved in a fight and have to depend on one of you guys! With that being said, New Orleans is due to crumble and that’s when the Hawks have to be in attack mode. Watch.

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marvin missed a good look

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thats right nique, slowly chip away and play some good defense hawks!

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nvnvnv………….dude it aint that serious…….hey I could actually be wrong, I am man enough to admit that…..but everyone was excited about Teague in the summer, and gave him nothing but props.

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2-18 from the 3 pt line, someone needs to tell them it’s not working tonight.

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what is joe doing?

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OMG JOE U HAVE POSEY ON U AND U DRIVE INTO TRIPLE TEAM.

I’LL SAY THIS FOR THE 239472365892735896TH TIME:

GET THE BALL TO CRAWFORD. HE HAS A MIDGET ONHIM

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I hate what JJ is doing out here tonite though. He’s just taking way to long getting where he wants to get to. Draining the shotclock in the process.

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Around the 4:30-4:00 min mark, the Hornets will start clock watching.

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Like I said some of u are too optimistic the game is done. It’s the Hornets night

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if anybody is interested in seeing the Kessler vs Ward fight……here is a link.
http://www.justin.tv/vip_entertainment
enjoy it while you can b4 they pull it.

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Think it’s a wrap people. The Hawks just don’t seem to have the energy to get over the hump. They continue to cut it down to 6, but can’t get it any closer than that.

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game over

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The fat lady has sung

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dang, they have been makign some key 3s throughout this whole game

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Absolutely horrific effort. Joe wasting the entire shotclock.

I hope this entire team is fined $15,000 for this effort.

pathetic.

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lol…….they just froze it………sorry

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Like my previous post said, Joe won’t swing the ball! He never makes quick decisions! It can be errating at times. I got love for my boy but, I’m just sayin…

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Just tuned in at the start of the 4th. The offense comes to a halt when JJ gets the ball. Drive it or get rid of it please….

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Sounds like tired legs to me. These are the games that I really want to see what Woodson is made of. You need to find out if Teague is ready and if Othello can contribute.

GO HAWKS!!!

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Correction – you don’t want Jamal and JJ charged with setting up Woody’s “offense.” You know, the offense that consists of a series of one-on-one plays and bailout passes. Bibby sets screens, calls pick and rolls, and keeps defenders off-balance. Jamal and JJ? There’s a reason they’re natural SGs and not PGs.

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Josh shouldn’t be taking any jumpers period. Like I said he has come down to earth. Expect him to be shooting jumpers left and right again.

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lets go hawks, 2 minute drill, haha

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What you’re not getting about Josh’s jumpers is they were set up by bad plays from the gaurds today.

Most of Josh’s jumpers tonite came when he was thrown the ball with less then 3 seconds left on the shot clock. You can’t blame the guy from putting up an attempt at that point…

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Hawks lose a game on the road and so called ‘fans’ are already jumping off the bandwagon? They are still 11-3 people!

Think biggest problem apart from not making shots was Joe pounding the ball too much.

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Wow, New Orleans got played LMAO!

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WHY IS IT SO DAMN HARD TO FIND THE BLOGS ON THIS SITE?

HEY AJC WHY DONT U MOVE THE BLOGS UP SO WE CAN FIND THEM WHEN WE GO TO THE HAWKS PAGE? OR CAN U NOT AFFORD THAT EITHER?

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Josh is that far out because they’re trying to space the floor so guys like JJ and Crawford can drive the lane.

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Sucks because we gotta sit on this loss for 4 days.

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Check out the Hornets celebrating!

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Woody played JJ 45 minutes last night, knowing the second game of a back to back was gonna be on the road, against a NO team who just beat Phoenix. Is anyone surprised JJ has played the way he has?

And why cant the Hawks realize that we are 4-21 from 3? Stop shooting 3’s and drive to the basket. Its not exactly rocket science! And Marvin is 1-5 from 3 (thats unacceptable), and Crawford is 2-9 from 3 (thats even worse).

I’m glad the Orlando game is in ATL, because if it was in Orlando, I would be very concerned. That being said, we are 11-3. All we have to do is beat Orlando, and we’re still the best team in the league.

That beign

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Once again another point guard has a career night against! Crawford plays no d at all! Wow!

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dang. tough loss. let’s get this next game

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I hate when scrubs have career nights against the Hawks. Typical Hawks.

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GOOD JOB MO EVANS FOR PLAYING LIKE SH!T

GOOD JOB JJ FOR WASTING EVERY SHOT CLOCK

GOOD JOB SMOOVE FOR TAKING JUMPSHOTS

GOOD JOB WOODY FOR LETTING US LOSE TO THIS MISERABLE TEAM

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Common guys. I understand that it’s frustrating losing a game that many here probably thought was a “gimme”. But, don’t lose sight in the bigger picture. We still hold an 11-3 record and that’s tops in the EAST. I know it’s been a while since we’ve lost a game, but we weren’t gonna go 80-2.

Chalk it up to a bad performance. We just didn’t have enough gas in the tank tonite. We shot 4-21 from beyond the arc tonite. Seemed like we were a step slow all night, and that happens from time to time.

Wouldn’t make so much out of this loss. Let’s not forget that these same Hornets beat the Phoneix Suns a couple days back. They’re capable of putting together good games, and on this particular night, they put together a better game than the Hawks did…

11-3. Sucks to lose, but enough with the bashing.

Don’t let a loss get you to catch a case of amnesia.

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Nique and Rathbun addressed the rookie thing, except about how the hornets were doing the right thing by putting them in for minutes and commiting to using them, even if they don’t perform right away… which is something that needs to be done with teague.

and yeah, this is a loss, but let’s learn and move on. we’re at home next game, let’s play big against orlando!

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In all the win-loss prediction, I guess no one saw this coming, huh?

Did Hawks miss Bibby out there or not?

Next few days of rest gonna be good for Hawks.

Refs played a part too.

Hawks will rebound.

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Man, Stinger must have read my comments, because he said the same thing i posted at 10:31 lol.

Basically, he said you dont want Crawford running the offense for too long, and he also thought Teague should have gotten more PT.

We’re still 11-3, and still the beast of the east. Lets beat Orlando and get back to our winning ways.

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Hawks need Bibby, man.

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I thought they would lose tonight. Last nights game was physical and took alot out of the team. 4 days off to get rested and ready for primetime against Orlando!

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again! The Hawks are the worst coached team in the NBA! How else do you describe a team that allows Josh Smith to bring the ball down court? Absolutely no penetration from the point position! Still a lot of standing around watching Joe! Jeff Teague is like a deer in the head-lights.. (man-up rookie)! No picks, no ball rotation…..First Place? Are you kidding me? They will be out by Thanksgiving day!

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A DRMARYB sighting!!!!! Glad to see you still with us. Didn’t your fab four come through though?

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We are showing we cannot beat bad teams on the road.

We play @ Philly after Orlando, and then @ Detroit, followed by 2 testy home games.

Losing strreak here we come

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This was a lackluster display and JJ pounded the ball to the detriment of the team. That being said, we get 5 days rest before the showdown with Orlando. I’m still optimistic. I was at the game and was puzzled as to why Bibby was out – I jokingly thought it was b/c he couldn’t hang with their young back court.
Let’s get thursday Hawks – still optimistic, though JT0 must get more minutes..

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The Bibby injury is exactly why some of us were saying that Teague needs consistent minutes. You never know when a guy is going to go down and its important that the next guy in line is ready. Teague looks like he has lost some confidence. He is playing not to make a mistake. Woodson is not allowing him to play through rookie mistakes. I hope Bibby is not out long because I don’t like Crawford at the point and it looks like Woody isn’t going to allow Teague much freedom to play through his mistakes.

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You can tell when all of the Woodson lovers are aware of him doing a poor job of coaching and decision making. You definitely don’t hear the demands for a new contract like you do after a win.

ILL-LOGICAL-it won’t be the physical play in the playoffs that will have the biggest negative effect on the Hawks, it will be the inability of a HC to coach beyond his programmed habits, stubborness and programming. Woodson recently said that he didn’t use his bench in the past because he has to go with what he trusts or feels comfortable with. Well, I guess that’s still the case. How can a HC maintain control of a team and it’s players, and develop his younger players, when he consistently demonstrates his lack of confidence and trust in them. Further more, when and how can he expect to develop any trust and/or confidence in a player without playing him, at least consistently?

He can’t expect to progress as a HC, or get a contract extension if he continues to take 1 step forward and 1 or 2 steps back. How much sense does it make to use Teague 10 to 15mins in a gm when your team is healthy, then when your starting PG goes down, you play him 5mins. Again, why allow a veteran like JJ to make rookie mistakes and turnovers, like consistently trying to dribble through double teams, yet yank Teague for making a rookie mistake?

I’m starting to see that ALaw frustration on Teagues face. Woodson should give Teague, or any rookie, the same consideration he gives Marvin, Horford, Smoove, JJ, Bibby or Crawford when they make the same mistakes.

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It was pretty clear that the Rockets had taken every ounce of juice out of the Hawks last night, and they had nothing left over for tonight’s game. Players were slow rotating on defense and clearly were missing their usual explosiveness on offense. In an 82-game season, every team loses some games they should win. Two of the Hawks’ three losses have come against inferior teams on the 2nd game of a back to back after traveling, and unfortunately they have another game like that this Friday.

They have 4 days to rest up for the big game against Orlando (hopefully I’ll be there). If they can win that game they will be making a huge statement that the road to the Southeast Division title runs through the ATL this year, regardless of tonight’s outcome. I’m not too worried about tonight… the winning streak was bound to end soon. I just hope Bibby’s ankle sprain is mild and he can be back by Thursday.

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We had an injury to our ‘quarterback’ early in the game and we did not adjust accordingly. Nevertheless, it looks as though we were still in the game. Given a few days of rest, if Bibby is not ready, I’m sure the team will make the necessary adjustments to compete against ORL on Thursday.

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Did some of you all thought the Hawks was not to lose another game. I know some of us couldn’t wait for us to lose. As long as there games in the NBA teams will have games like this when nothing will go right. Get real people. I ‘m still with the Hawks and the HC.

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Woody is to young point guards, as Willie Martinez is to defense, as Obama is to national debt.

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It obvious look at every other pg drafted in front of teague and behind him collison, maynor they look good dont they. Please people with the would if we had brandon jennings or CP3 when young. Woody would have not played them and they would look bad as well just like teague. The proof is there there is nothing wrong with teague it what ken strick said and Sheldon willams said there is no consistant min and woody pulls you when you mess up but everybody else can make misstakes

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Think about it Rookie collison 22 in 34 min teague 0 in 5 min in a night when Bibby played 5min. Woody what are you thinking? dont give me teague is not ready because it is up to you to make him ready and you havent done that. He should have gotten no less then 20 minutes last night. Woody dont give me teague is not nba ready than Why did you draft him because if he is such a project then why did you not pick up another backup pg. Rick Sund did everything you wanted and you did not ask for another backup pg because he let you draft the one you wanted what is you excuse woody?

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KevinA-Hawksta, I had company over yesterday and by time I could respond to you comments a new post was up, pardon the delay.

Truth-Serum

November 22nd, 2009
9:44 am

KevinA

November 21st, 2009
4:54 pm

You are right as far as getting Josh, Al, Zaza on the at the same time, that would be an interesting experiment. Two power forward and a center.

We looked weak in the paint last night. We controlled nothing under the basket.

“We do have two big bodies in Rando Mo and Collins that may get more burn as we play against weaker teams.”

I would have loved to see them get major minutes last night. It was clear from the third quarter that we were not going to compete. Id like to see Mo, and Collins split 15 minutes a game, regardless of who we play. If we pay em lets play em. At the rate its going now they wont be ready for the playoffs. Lets get them some burns…

The Hawksta, I feel you. Its funny how you can tell a young man what to do, yet he always seem to do what he wants to do any way. Josh? straight from high school. Marvin? 1 year of college then straight to the pros. If you have raised children then you certainly have learned patience. Some times you have to repeat the same things over and over and thy still don’t get the message. The stand off between Josh and Woodson was a classic dad/son confrontation and Woodson hit it for a home run. In part that’s why Josh is better today. Every person has strengths and weaknesses. One of woodson’s strengths is player relationships. The players respect him. Hes earned it.

Ant Banks, right on the money. A lot of this divisiveness is coming from people who aren’t true hawk fans. At some point you may find difficulties in enjoying the season for all the miss place hate.

Big Ump here’s a surprise for the haters. The hawks will lose again before the season is over. Perhaps we should put a cart beside the Hawks bandwagon for people who want off when the Hawks lose two or three games. By the way…Who has the best record in the NBA? Who?

Rod from College Park

November 21st, 2009
6:14 pm

“Wow,

Shout out to all my HATERS. Really did not know you guys liked me so much. NIRECLOWN, KEN STRCKLAND, TERRELL BARRON, MICHELLEFROMATL and whoever else who chose to bash my name while I was not on the blog.”

Rod, I just call them the Bubba posse, that way I don’t have to spell out each name. Its like Ant Banks said, “every body here is not hawk fans”. Alot of them are here to get their B!tch on.

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cp, agree! teague has the same deer caught in the headlights look of acie. for all the hype in preseason, he has done little to allow me to forget mr. law. he is going to need some real quick coach up time. unfortunately, it seems he plays to avoid mistakes and to figure out where he belongs on the court on each play. he cant play by instinct in the nba or in this system if you want to call it that.

the guys without bibby better begin to take on the look of an aggressive defensive team until they get their qb point guard back in to direct traffic. bibby means more to this team than most would admit.

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KevinA – Hawksta ( typo corrections)- Truth-Serum
November 22nd, 2009
10:20 am

*By the time I could respond to your comments
*on the at the same time,

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There is way to much teague hype…every NBA analyst has stated, using previous draft history, that small pg’s drafted outside the lottery do not have an impact their first couple of years. Even the ones who go on to have good careers. Mike Bibby is the perfect pg for this team, there is a reason they are experiencing winning for the first time in a decade. He runs the team, he’s unselfish, knows who to get the ball to, and has hit more big shots for this team then anyone. This is the second time he has been hurt for a game, and the second time the hawks have laid an egg (Clippers last year). He is not the best pg in the league, but he is the best pg for this team because he manages egos and gets guys the ball, please stop talking about jeff teague is a savior!!!

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HawksV looks like we were thinking along the same lines.

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Grandad,

From the last blog:

Sautee: “I’m one who wants a defensive minded 5, not that Big Al is not
more yhan adequate. As a matter of fact he may very well be my
favorite Hawk. I just think we need a bigger [longer-actually]
defensive presence ['off the bench'] to guard the rim.”

Grandad, that’s just what I was saying all last season. Astro Joe and I were pushing for a longer, defensive minded second string center. Camby would have been perfect.

I just have a problem with those who say Horford is “too small” while he’s been in the top 10 in most categories for Centers and we have the best record in the league. And your old buddy Sybil insists that it’s ME who is bitchin, while here I am smiling and loving the success and wondering why folks think Horford’s not enough as a starter. I wasn’t the one complaining other than to point out his obvious hypocrisy. That’s actually what bothers him about me. Glad to know that we are on the same page.

11-3 is ok by me!

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THIS WHY I SAID WE SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT BACK FLIP.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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Doc your points are well taken. I look at whats best for teague and the realism of what he brings to the table. Just because you have the physical size or can dribble a basketball and have occasional flash does not make you NBA Material. I remember Kenny Anderson for GT and How I thought he might be one off the greatest point guards of all times. He came to the pros with all the pedigree of a two time MVP of a famous high school, let a finale four school in GT to go pro.

Kenny did good and started as a rookie.He had a decent career as a player but was never the hall of famer or allstar that his early career suggest.

I dont see that assertiveness or understanding of the game with teague. he is what he is…. the 7th best point guard from the class of 09 now playing in the NBA against the top guards drafted in the last 10 years. He may be overmatched. Im not going to make it Woodson’s responsibility to make him in to peyton or stockton.

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darrell starks Woodson said he wanted both Crawford and Flip but the Sunds buget wouldnt allow it.

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i would say put him out there and let him shot or dont play him at all this year

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VALVA74-you make some valid points, and it’s true about Kobe taking over the OFF from time to time like JJ. However, you can bet your bottom dollar if Kobe does it, he’d better be on his gm and very productive. There’s no way Phil would allow him to continue doing it if he was as ineffective as JJ’s been the last 2 nights. If something isn’t working, you try something else. If you don’t have something else, or something else that you trust, it demonstrates your limitations as a HC, and the obvious limitations of your OFF system.

Over the last 2-3yrs, we’ve seen Woodson coach much like a young developing animal that hasn’t ventured out from his shelter. The young animals’ instinct tells it if it wants to continue surviving it has to venture out(has to change to an uptempo OFF and utilize the bench more). It finally gets the message and does stick its head out(periodically allowing the team to play uptempo), but won’t commit to exposing itself(frequently reverts back to a halfcourt jumpshooting OFF). Then, it actually ventures out into the new environment, but it’s very nervous, shakey and doesn’t seem to know what to expect(committing to maintaining an uptempo OFF and using his bench and not overplaying his starters). At the slightest hint of any perceived trouble, it scurry’s back into its shelter to seek comfort, without determining if it’s friend or foe(The fear of losing forces him to revert back to overplaying his key starters, and underutilizing his bench). Scurrying back into its shelter doesn’t automatically mean it’s out of danger, but it just doesn’t know what else to do, because it’s operating on instincts, not experience, knowledge or confidence(coaching scared, coaching not to lose rather than being aggressive and coaching to win).

This is what we’re getting from Woodson. He knows he has to venture out, do something different and expand his skills. Yet, it’s outside his comfort/trust zone, and at the first sign of trouble or discomfort, he scurrys back to what he trusts or feels comfortable with. It’s obvious he only has total trust in Bibby and JJ. The other starters get consideration because he has even less trust in their backups than he has in them.

How do you explain a HC that shows patience, committment and tolerance for a 5yr veteran player, who had obviously lost his confidence and was having a rough time over the 1st 10gms, yet, is too thick headed and stubborn to realize the same fomular is necessary for developing young inexperienced players like SStaudemire, ALaw and JTeague? Where would this team be without the development of his starting frontline? He certainly didn’t give any of them inconsistent mins or punish them in any way for making mistakes. Of course, he had little choice in the matter since he didn’t really have any viable options sitting on his bench, and his former GM probably insisted on it as well, hence the rift between the 2.

WHILE BOTH THE TEAM, ITS PLAYERS AND WOODSON HAVE GROWN AND MATURED OVER THE YRS, THE TEAM AND IT’S PLAYERS HAVE GROWN AND MATURED A WHOLE LOT MORE AND A WHOLE LOT FASTER THAN WOODSON. Isn’t it revealing when a 23 yr old player, who came right out of high school and is known for being immature, realizes he needs to change his approach in order to get better after 5yrs of inconsistency and frustration. After making the committment he actually gets much better and more consistent.

On the other hand, his HC, who was an All-American at Indiana U, played 11yrs in the NBA, coached several yrs under LBrown, one of the NBA’s best HC’s, and has been a HC for 5yrs, is still struggling with making a committment to developing young inexperience players, committing to doing the things that’s made this team so successful this season(like extending his bench play and not overplaying key starters, insisting his key player(s) keep the ball moving and not revert to the ISO and one on one play that hasn’t benefitted the team).

Woodson doesn’t seem to instill confidence in people and/or destroys confidence in others. He managed to lose the confidence of former GM BKnight, who tried to fire his several times. He certainly didn’t instill any confidence in players/high draft picks like SStaudemire, ALaw and SJones. After the ASG refused to allow former GM BKnight to fire him on several occasions, and made the decision to retain him over GM BKnight, they seem to have lost some degree of confidence in him by refusing to offer him another contract extension.

I’m still going to be patient and hope he’s not too stubborn and unwilling to learn from his mistakes and overcome his negative instincts and insecurities.

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darrell starks

He came public with that after the hornets loss and flip torched us for 15 points and 6 rebounds in 17 minutes of play.

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*maybe

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Utah Jazz hc

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QUIZ ANSWER IS….MIKE WOODSON, ATLANTA’S SIX YEAR COACH.

Season Age Lg Tm G W L W-L% W > .500 Finish G Plyf W Plyf L Plyf W-L% Plyf Notes
2004-05 46 NBA
ATL
82 13 69 .159 -28.0 5
2005-06 47 NBA
ATL
82 26 56 .317 -15.0 4
2006-07 48 NBA
ATL
82 30 52 .366 -11.0 5
2007-08 49 NBA
ATL
82 37 45 .451 -4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2008-09 50 NBA
ATL
82 47 35 .573 6.0 2 11 4 7 .364
2009-10 51 NBA
ATL
14 11 3 .786 4.0 1
Career NBA 424 164 260 .387 -48.0 18 7 11 .389
Mike Woodson took over as the coach of the Hawks prior to the 2004-05 season, after the franchise fired Terry Stotts. Since then, Woodson and the Hawks franchise have struggled to give any impression they were on the verge of becoming one of the deepest and most dangerous teams in the NBA.

Filled with a roster of young and unproven draft picks, a GM who was feuding and clashing with ownership and the coaching staff, and an ownership squabble that threatened to keep the team in total chaos, it was hard to see any signs of success on the horizon.

Through all of that, however, Mike Woodson never wavered. His no nonsense approach to defense and accountability often clashed with budding superstars like Josh Smith and others. Yet, having studied under the likes of the legendary Bobby Knight and Larry Brown, Woodson stayed the course. His post game quotes often sounded like broken records, “We need to defend and rebound the ball better.”

Finally, in the summer of 2005, the Hawks were able to acquire one of the most sought after free agents in the NBA—Joe Johnson. The Hawks still struggled, largely due to some bad draft picks and lack of overall team depth.

Things began to turn around in the summer of 2007 as the Hawks finally got it right in drafting Al Horford, a two-time NCAA champion at the University of Florida. That same year, the Hawks signed veteran guard Mike Bibby, and hired a new General Manager in Rick Sund.

Woodson’s Hawks shocked the world by taking the eventual champion Boston Celtics to a seventh game in the first round of the playoffs before losing.

GM Rick Sund made another bold move by letting free agent forward Josh Childress go, replacing him with two more veterans in Maurice Evans and Ronald “Flip” Murray.

This season, the Hawks have continued to ride last year’s playoff wave by getting off to their best start in over 10 years. They lost on a last second shot by Paul Pierce against the Boston Celtics in the Boston Garden despite a back-to-back schedule and playing without one of the NBA leading defensive players, Josh Smith.

A 6-1 start has caused many around the league to take notice of this team and only goes to strengthen Woodson’s resolve to stay the course.

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HAS SOLO RETURNED TO THE CBA THAT HE CAME FROM?

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Marvin and Stojakovic were pretty much a wash.
Ken Strickland
November 22nd, 2009
12:07 am
What we saw tonight was the ISO, one on one, half court, guard oriented jump shooting, fatigued team of the last few yrs. Woodson allowed JJ, who was obviously feeling the effects of playing 45mins last night, to selfishly dominate the OFF with his ISO’s and one on one BS. When Woodson allowed JJ to go ISO Joe exclusively, it made it easy for New Orleans to defend us.

A couple of rookie guards. Thorton/Collison went for 17-29
Our star guards went JJ/Jamal went 14-39

We won the battle of turn overs, we won the rebound battle.

Josh and Al were 9-22
Okafor and West 8-24

We did lose the assist race, Josh had 7 of our 15 assists
A rookie Collison had 11 on his own with the rest of the NO team chipping in for another 11.

Moral to the story? Ken said it best – What we saw tonight was the ISO, one on one, halfcourt, guard oriented jumpshooting, fatigued team of the last few yrs.

Why we don’t give the rock to our post players at least 30-35 times a game, every game, is beyond me. Clearly the post is the strength of our team – why not pass it to them.

As posted before, where do these shots come from? 3 pt shooting. Yep a whopping 4-22.

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Settle down folks! We have 4 whole days to work this out until our next game.

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Dear Sam and Rod,

You keep referring to Marvin’s draft position. I still await your response to my very simple question. Why are you still upset at Marvin for my decision to draft him #2 and how is Marvin’s draft position Marvin’s fault?

Sincerely,
William Knight

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But what has tenure got to do with anything? Show me an overall record. Show me continued and furthered postseason success. Show me an ability to change and find the winning formula when the usual stuff isn’t working. This is what interests me.

Tenure is something members of Congress have. And you see just how well that’s working out for us….

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thanks for the correction on that ray. Good pick up.

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Truth Serum,

Jeff Bower is in a do or die situation down there in New Orleans. The way I see it, his onlytrue star is out, which is a good explanation as to why rookie guards Thornton and Collison are playing. I mean, David West is a two time all-star, but an all-star is not what I see him playing like this year so far. In fact, I like Josh Smith’s numbers better.

At the same time, this guy knows he has to do what it takes to win. It just so happens that he doesn’t have much else to turn to. These two rooks will get very valuable experience, the kind that Teague will miss.

But the Hornets aren’t in the same situation as the Hawks. The Hornets are trying to keep their heads above water. The Hawks are trying to become one of the top powers in the East, and in the NBA as a whole.

Mike Woodson doesn’t have to play Teague, the way Jeff Bower has to play Collison and Thornton.

However, he might want to consider extending the guy’s minutes. The reason? We don’t know the lasting effects of Mike Bibby’s ankle injury, and if it happens again, we may need Teague for more than 5 minutes. More importantly, we will need a more composed, effective Teague…even if it is only for five minutes. But, that will come in time. I don’t see the harm in playing him 10 minutes or more a game, though. Might need it down the stretch, and while practice may be a coach’s staple, real game time is where experienced is gained.

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Uh…isn’t that exactly what Ray said? That Woody started at the beginning of the 2004-2005 season?

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Good detective work officer………

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Actually Ray the facts are Mike Woodson took over as the coach of the Hawks prior to the 2004-05 season, after the franchise fired Terry Stotts, according to the copy and paste.

True. The distinction between him and Lawrence Frank is that Frank took over in the season PRIOR TO the ‘04-’05 season, making his tenure longer. Doc Rivers took over his current position in 2004, meaning that he didn’t do so any later than Woodson did, although I’m sure there is a difference of days or weeks between their actual hire announcements. Either way, both started the ‘04-’05 season in the same fashion, at the same time.

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Forget it Thruth Serum, The DA and Captain Crunch have spoken!!

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Ill take your advice I MUS WRITE

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Truth Serum,

I agree. Let the kid earn his stripes. I don’t want him to play ten more minutes per game , I’d like to see him play 10 minutes or more . Royal Ivey did, and he’s not near as good as this kid.

I don’t think Teague’s leadership abillity is all that obvious yet. We don’t see him as a leader of this team, or having the ability to run this team because he just doesn’t have it yet. Of course, if we expected this from a #19 pick then we’re being a bit unrealistic.

That, and his level of poise is obviously lacking when in comparison to guys like Bibby, Crawford, etc.

Now, when is the last time you’ve seen a rookie pg playing for the Atlanta Hawks, that really seemed like he was ready to run a team? No, I’m not intending this as an anti-Woody argument. But think about it for a second. The next question is WHY? Is it management’s scouting and drafting? Do we manage to only get marginal young point guards? Or is is how Woody is with these young guys? Or….do we just need to be patient? Up until this point, I’ve seen far more positive interaction between Teague, his teammates, and Woodson. Woody isn’t acting like Teague just plain sucks, but he also isn’t forced to play the kid.

I think it’s very hard for a kid like Teague to come into this league, playing with three very much veteran guards like Johnson, Crawford, and Bibby. They can eat him up at any minute with their skills, knowledge and savvy. At the same time he can really learn from them.

Outside of Brandon Jennings, which young point guard do we see out there in the league, that could not only keep up with our guys, but take playing time from them?

Flynn? Lawson? Thornton? Collison? Maynor? I’d say none of the above. Tyreke Evans is another story, but we won’t go there (kid is crazy talented). But that’s why you see those guys playing as much as they do, where they do. There is a reason for each situation.

Sacramento is nowhere near a winning team. Therefore, they got a high lotto pick, and were wise enough to grab Evans.

Denver doesn’t have a lead guard on their bench like Jamal Crawford. Therefore, they need a decent backup. Therefore, Lawson plays more.

New Orleans has nothing in the backcourt without Chris Paul, and even WITH him, they need a backup. Hence, the minutes for Collison and Thornton are significant.

As you state, the Hawks are concerned with higher things. They have Bibby, Jamal, Joe. Now, if Bibby goes down and stays down, then things change. Until then, Teague gets to learn the ropes.

With the playing time comes the confidence, and the display of skills. I think we need not judge Teague too harshly. If he was getting the playing time, we’d see more from him. But right now, it’s not needed from him. I think he will produce when we need him to. But if you want to see him perform like some of these other rookies do, then you have to play him enough. It’s just that we don’t need that from him right now.

Besides, it’s kind of hard to look like you can take over a team when you only play 5 minutes in a game….

I could see Teague getting as much playing time as Lawson does in Denver….except there’s a reason.

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Lol…give me a break, truth serum. In basketball terms, a coach getting hired “prior to” and “at the beginning of” a season mean the same thing – that the coach was hired during the offseason, and coached his first game with the team when the season began. Are you seriously suggesting that Ray intended a meaning any different than that? Get real.

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Truth Serum,

I subscribe to the lets win first, or if its not going to hurt the flow of the game. This is the pros and and the end of the day the question is did you win.

I agree. Hard to argue with that.

Ray I wont quibble any further because its a non issue. Fact are fact and there record has it that Woodson started in his capacity as a replacement for Slotts in the close of 2003-04 and begin his first full season in 04-05. which would put him ahead of Rivers.

I dont mind correction, when im incorrect.

I agree, it’s a non issue. I really don’t know who got hired on which date, I didn’t look that far. I figure tenure has to do more with regular season games worked than it does hire dates in between regular seasons. I don’t mind being corrected either, though sometimes I have to be shown when I’m wrong.

Who knows, maybe next year, Bibby’s replacement becomes more apparent. I dont want to turn a potential championship team over to an inexperienced and unproven rookie. Lest let him earn his stripes.

I agree again. I don’t think anybody is seriously calling for this kid to take over, though many believe he should play more minutes. Perhaps some are hasty and overly exuberant in expressing this. For instance, I can see him playing 12 minutes a game, as opposed to just 5-7 minutes per game. I do NOT see the need to playing him 20 minutes per game or more. At the same time, if we’re in a game that’s tough, and both Joe and Jamal are keeping us in it, or keeping us ahead…by all means, sacrifice Teague’s minutes for that game, for the purpose of winning it.

Yeah, at that point in time it’s stupid to complain about Teague getting his minutes if Crawford is unstoppable, Joe is beasting, and Bibby is shooting the lights out, particularly if it’s a tightly contested game. But if we’re easily maintaining a double digit lead, then yeah, throw the kid in there for a while and see if he can keep the flow going.

I think moderations, situation, scenario, etc plays into this. But you know how it goes. People tend to gravitate to one extreme or another…..

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I find myself in agree with you enough to just sit back and let you put it out there!!!
What can I say….Ditto. Where do I cosign? LOL

Some times it comes down to which team drafts you, and who’s in front of you. I think that Sund and Hawks management had drafted best player available until we got the nucleus when have now. Currently I think they draft for position. There’s only so much talent you get at 19th (unless you are lucky) ,when you are trying to fill a specific rather than a best player available. I like the ladder because I may be able to trade my best available for what I need.

Both strategies and work.

I guess the way i may compromise on the teague situation is give him 5-15 minutes against teams we should clearly beat, and 0 – 5 against major competition. Maybe that will get us close to the ten you request.

Actually hes getting 9.4 minutes per game now which should be close enough to the ten you request. Im sure we can find the .6 some where.-LOL

From what I have seen of him, hes making a lot of rookie mistakes which is to be expected. Id like to see him be more assertive and like one poster said, not be a deer in the headlights.

Very good post Ray, you do good work, I got to visit your blog page some time soon.

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*I appreciate the exchange Ray

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Truth-Serum

November 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm

* in agreement with you most of the time

* I like the latter

The argument about teague getting 10 per game is weird when you consider he gets 9.4 per game. What more can he show us in . 6 minutes?

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Teague minutes per game average is 9.4.

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I MUS WRITE-you’re correct, Teague does look for lanes to drive because he doesn’t have an adequate jumpshot or outside gm. However, JJ has an excellent jumpshot and outside gm, yet we still see him outside pounding the ball looking for driving lanes that aren’t there. At least Teague has enough sense not to hold or hog the ball and run the clock down while looking for openings through double teams.

The blame for JJ’s continued selfish behavior on OFF rests squarely at the feet of HC Mike Woodson. If a HC can’t get JJ, or any player, to become more of a team player and keep the ball moving on OFF, he’s demonstrating his inadequacies and shortcomings as a HC. I doubt if Phil Jackson is any better at certain aspects of coaching than Woodson, but he’s light yrs ahead of him in areas that count most toward building a championship calibur team. He manages players very well, he develops and manages younger players well and he manages his bench well. Most importantly, he gets productions out of players that have limitations by focusing on what they can do rather than what they can’t do. Of all the the things listed above that Woodson isn’t good at, the last one might be his biggest shortcoming. He simply throws away too many players with talent simply because they might not do exactly what he prefers well. PG’s Chris Paul and Toney Parker were poor jumpshooters when they 1st came into the league, but that’s not the case now, and they’re perennial Allstars. I want you Woodson appologist to answer the following question honestly. How many of you think they would have become perennial Allstar calibur players under Woodson’s method of developing young PG’s?

He totally ignored Bibby’s numerous shortcomings, as well as JJ’s, but focused on the shortcomings of SStaudemire, ALaw, SJones and now JTeague and held them accountable because of them. If we lose to Orlando, it will the 1st time so far this season we’ve suffered consecutive losses. It will be interesting to see if he rededicates himself and the team to what got us off to such an outstanding start, or allow the team to continue reverting back to the crap we’ve witnessed the last 2gms.

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If I were Mr. Woodson, If the hawks did not win I force them to suffer through one of Ken’s Blogs!

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On the subject of a contract extension, I have the following belief. I don’t think Sund will refuse to offer Woodson a new contract, especially if the team does well, and I think it will. However, I think he will make him another 2yr offer, rather than a longterm committment. Woodson still hasn’t demonstrated he has the ability to develop young players and consistently get the most out of a talented team throughout an 82 gm season. He definitely hasn’t demonstrated he has the ability to match strategy and decision making ability with other HC’s of playoff calibur teams.

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Finally a game to get some of these freaks off the bandwagon. Good to see Marvin come out of his funk. Boys were just tired tonight. We’ll see what they’re made of come Thanksgiving. The break should help Bibby get back. Hopefully Woody will trust JTO more. He does well, he just tries too hard to impress. Play your game…stats will come. We can’t win them all. They looked sluggish against Houston and out of gas in NO. A new day dawns. Hopefully we’ll bring the D and the rebounding in Orlando.

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Jeezuz yall must be really bored…… Who really cares when Doc, Woody, or L Frank got hired ,They all started at the beginning of the 04 season My goodness………….Longest tenure- Whoopdy Dam Doo…Its all about the wins. Just ask Popovich or Jerry Sloan

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Truth-serum,

Can I co-sign that without actually addressing you as you wished?

I guess not, even if I agree. Good point.

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LOL @ Grandad

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DUNWOODYHAWK-You don’t need Allstars to develop an effective bench. The Lakers won the NBA title last yr, and besides LOdom, who on their bench is/was outstanding? The Celtics expected to be in the hunt for another championship this yr and signed RWallace. They also thought enough of SWilliams’ abilities, especially his rebounding, to offer him a contract. The Pacers thought enough to SJones abilities to offer him a nice contract as well. The GM’s of these teams offered them contracts because they saw how they could benefit from what these players can do well. They didn’t focus on what they don’t do well, which is the major flaw with Woodson’s thinking, and seemingly yours as well.

ANONOYMOUS-WHO IN THE HELL IS FORCING YOU?

Has anyone noticed how Smoove’s habit of getting the rebound, and going coast to coast and spending more time on the perimeter taking jumpshots, has increased? Have you also noticed how it seems to coincide with JJ reverting back to the ISO’s and one on one play? And it all seems to coinside with Woodson’s reversion back to his old habit of overplaying his key starters and underplaying his bench.

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Having Jeff Teague is like Having another Mario West, and that is not a good thing,

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IMUS ,

Your disdain for our “discussion” on hire dates would have been funnier if you hadn’t been three hours behind the discussion….

Truth Serum ,

The exchange was good. Hope you have a good evening as well. By the way, I was looking for 12 minutes per game for Teague, not ten. Not a huge difference, but it could be over the course of several games, or an entire season.

O’brien ,

Tough question. I’d raise Teague’s minutes if Bibby is out for an extended period of time. However, I’m not willing to bet the farm on it, as the saying goes. Rather, I’ll expect what I figure is inevitable: Crawford will play 35 mpg if this happens…if not more….LOL….I laugh, but we both know it’s true, and we both know why ……

LOL @ Grandad ….and just think, it ain’t even 2012 yet….

KevinA ,

Call me back when Collins and Thornton play like that every night. We gave it to them, they didn’t exactly earn it. I agree they have talent, but I also see them getting valuable PT. Yeah, we let ‘em have their way with us this time.

I’d be more inclined to agree with you if I hadn’t seen the game against them back on November 14th, at OUR place, where we whooped them 121-98. In THAT game, Bibby had 17, Jamal had 21, and Joe had 26. Thornton, Collison, and Brown managed to combine their efforts to match Joe’s output. That’s how THAT went, and how it SHOULD have gone this time, but apparently we had nothing in the gas tank, and were lacking in defensive effort as well.

I maintain my stance on Teague. No rookie pg this year, outside of Jennings or Evans would play more minutes for us than Teague has. I believe that.

Teague isn’t “producing”, but I also am not ready to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. And I still wonder just what it is people are expecting him to do in 9.4 mpg, most of which are played with Jamal Crawford on the floor. Gee, is he supposed to be shooting then?

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O’Brien’s 7:42 post is dead-on. What is killing JT and has killed just about every young player under Woody’s “tutelage is a complete lack of consistency. Take it from Sheldon Williams’ recent quotes in the Boston Globe:

“I don’t think there was a lot of consistency in my minutes [in Atlanta],’’ Williams said. “When I played significant minutes, I had double-doubles more often than not, especially at the end of the season, when I was getting a lot of minutes. Then, all of a sudden it goes from me playing to me not playing, so I don’t think I was given a fair shot.

“There was no communication there, so I had no idea what exactly they wanted….I never knew what to expect, never knew what was going on.’’

It’s got to be the same with JT. Has no idea if he’s going to play, when he’s going to play, and when he does play there’s no doubt he’s pressing to make the most of the opportunity. He hasn’t been around here enough to know that even if he plays well he won’t see consistency from his coach when it comes to developing young talent.

The only thing consistent about Woody is his habit of overplaying JJ and his over-reliance on iso-Joe. With Woody WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) and while we’re playing well and have depth this year the reality is that Woody’s not going to get as much out of this team as they are capable of. The consistency in developing role expectations isn’t just lacking for JT but for Joe Smith, and Mo Evans as well.

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Big Ray Honestly I dont think brandon jenning or t.evans would have gotten more minutes under woody this year. they wouldnt have gotten free will to shoot woody would have taken them out.

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I think that Teague should start against Orlando even if Bibby is “day to day”. The season is not even 1/4 of the way; we don’t need to make the Orlando game bigger than it is: it is an early season game against a division rival.Peroid.
By elevating it to Olympian proportions , the risk is that Woodson will panic and go iso Joe crazy and play Bibby thus reducing his effectiveness for the tough road schedule that follows the Orlando game.
This is an improving team with lots of upside but the goal this year is a better playoff performance and great teams play the season to get ready for the playoffs not to just get in.

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Al, our unsung hero needs the ball more. Al is our 4th option. Jamal is our second option. This should be reversed.

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O’Brien

November 23rd, 2009
7:58 am
Ray,

I dont mind Jamal playing 35 minutes. I just dont want him playing 30 minutes at the PG position.

What happened to the player with great skills that could break down defenses and pass the ball.

Woody: Jamal we need to chat.
Jamal: What about coach.
Woody: you can’t seem to make 3 pt shots and drbble to much.
Jamal: But coach you told me go play my game, thats how I play.
Woody: You were playing much better when I said that.
Jamal: So was JJ, you having a meeting with him?
Woody: We only have one all star on this team who is allowed to miss at that rate and you ain’t it.
Jamal: Promises given and promises taken away. Besides if JJ would pass me the ball when I am open I wouldn’t have to go ISO to get my shots.
Woody: I need to get through to you, we only have one all star on this team who is allowed to miss at that rate and you ain’t it.
Jamal: Seems like a double standard.
Woody: You should have made those shots.
Jamal: So what is it you want me to do?
Woody: Pass to the bigs, JJ won’t do it. Do like Bibby did, take less shots and set up your team mates.
Jamal: There goes that double standard again.
Woody: On second thought you are right, we can win 50 games anyway. Thats good enough for all of us to get resigned. Don’t change a thing, practice those 3’s though.
Jamal: Thanks coach, I’m 19 for 69, if I get up least 10 a game I can turn it around.
Woody: Thats what I’m talking about, a positive attitude.

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Doc, you know Woodrow is not going to change his stripes. Some players mature, and now Woodrow is a great coach. Woodrow is Woodrow, and that equates to a panic driven coach. When in doubt Woodrow allows the team to play ISO ball. There’s no reason why Teague shouldn’t have received decent minutes Saturday night. Teague is the new Acie, and that’s how it’s going to be. I don’t understand why they draft point guards, when they know Woody will not play a young pg. He wants veterans, so they should’ve made a trade for a veteran pg.

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Just a few thoughts on Thursday Game Vs Orlando:

*Please let Al and Zaza handle the duties of guarding Dwight Howard ALONE!!! Please no double teaming leaving guys WIDE OPEN at the 3pt line. I would rather for Dwight Howard to score between 25-40pts, than have the Magic going 20 for 25 at the 3pt line.

**Jamal Crawford, if you have another one of those 50pt games in you, Thursday would be a great time to put it on display:)

***FANS BRING EVERY OUNCE OF ENERGY YOU HAVE, I KNOW I WILL!!!!!!!!!

Peace my friends, till Thursday.

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I am currently reading Bill Simmons’ The Book of Basketball.

Highly entertaining, however, beyond the entertainment, there is chapter (one of the first) where Simmons summarizes a conversation he had with Isaiah Thomas about the secret of winning.

I am considering ordering a copy of the book and have it shipped to JJ with request that he specifically reads the paragraphs about the secret in the locker room…

This would highly educating as well to some of the bloggers that think that a winning team is assembled by adding players and their stats.

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Well Hawks and Magics top this week power rankings at 1-2 Link:http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/11/23/week4/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1.

There is gonna be ALOT of hype at the Highlight Factory Thursday night. I’m calling it now, Jamal Crawford gonna get 50!!!

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And let’s try that NBA power rankings link over:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/11/23/week4/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

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Also there’s some very interesting facts pertaining the B**ching some of you have been doing about Joe’s minutes. Last week averages were:

1)Dwayne Wade 38.6 Mins Per Game
2)Dirk Nowitzki 38.5 Mins Per Game
3)Kobe Bryant 38.1 Mins Per Game
4)Joe Johnson 37.9 Mins Per Game
5)Lebron James 37.8 Mins Per Game
6)Brandon Roy 36.7 Mins Per Game
7)Camelo Anthony 35.6 Mins Per Game

People Stop You B**tching About Mins Please!! Thanks In Advance!

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Truth & Big Ray gd post.
I’m with you on Woody. I personally think the man has done an outstanding job with the players he’s been given. Has he made some mistakes? Sure. Every coach in the league has.

Ken

I heard you mention coaches like PJax, GPop, JSloan, & Larry Brown. Now Larry Brown I can’t argue, but who did GPop PJax & JSloan develope as players. Oh PJax developed (Kobe Shaq Jordan Pip Gasol Odom & Bynum) GPop (Duncan, Robinson, TP & Manu) never mind GPop tried to JKidd cause he didn’t think TP was what he needed to win a title. JSloan he did really well developing (Malone Stockton DWill Boz, & Okur). Those coached are impressive, but Woody has taken less talent and coached them to being on the verge of serious contenders with 1 2nd level all star on the team that my friend is impressive.

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Mychelfromatl

Great post.

Stars play ball. This aint Boston where the average age is late 30s. This is Atl were the average age is mid 20s. That’s a young team if those guys complain about playing 2 many miniutes and are not playing in June ship them out of here.

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Daniel

What up Daniel? Thx.

I’m really trying to understand why we give other coaches props for their teams & players improvement, but when it comes to Woody; the answer is the growth was organic or the players did it on their own.

I just don’t understand that logic.

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The logic is… I have a position (i.e. Woodson doesn’t develop players) so I make any and every situation fit that position, even if the facts don’t back it up. It is called being dogmatic. Then you throw in a dash of over reaction with a strong pinch of “I gotta have something to say that makes it seem like I know something about the team, even though I am just parroting arguments from 18 months ago” and you have the majority of these takes.

there are many here who do know basketball and the Hawks… so that comment was not directed at you. If you felt like that comment fits you, well then…. shoe fits ya know.

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Gee-
Obviously, I was not talking about you. When I read my post back, it seemed like I was talking about you, but you know who I meant. Sorry if I was confusing.

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Daniel-Very good post at 1:34PM

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GEEMACK-Are you saying the majority of these championship calibur coaches didn’t develop any or most of the young players they had on their rosters? GET REAL MAN!!

This is JSmiths 6th yr, all as a starter, and after 5yrs, fans and NBA insiders were still commenting and/or complaining about his inconsistency, lack of maturity, decipline, out of control style and propensity for jacking up 3pt jumpers instead of going inside. AND THAT’S YOUR IDEA OF SOME KIND OF DEVELOPMENT UNDER WOODSON? He’s definitely turned it around this yr, but it was a decision and recognition on his part that made it happen.

MWilliams is starting his 5th yr in the league, 4th as a starter. Both fans and NBA insiders are still commenting and/or complaining about his overall lack of development. They are also wondering why Woodson refuses to expand his OFF to include and take full advantage of a player that was drafted 2nd overall because of his athleticism and outstanding midrange jumpshot, which he has expanded to 3pt range. AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO CONSIDER THAT SOME KIND OF BADGE OF HONOR FOR WOODSON?

AHorford just entered his 3rd yr, all as a starter, and after an outstanding rookie season, fans and NBA insiders are still wondering why Woodson hasn’t expanded his limited OFF to take advantage of his maturity, quickness, strength, excellent passing ability, high basketball IQ and midrange jumpshot. EXACTLY WHAT HAS WOODSON DONE TO CONTRIBUTE TO HORFORDS DEVELOPMENT AND MATURITY?

We’re now seeing Woodson use the same BS approach in developing rookie PG JTeague that’s failed in every instance over the past 5yrs. AND YOU’RE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING TO DEFEND THIS CRAP?

Former GM BKnight and the ASG made it perfectly clear they intended to blow up the roster and completely start over, so Woodson, as well as all of us, knew exactly what to expect. So all of you Woodson apologist can stop throwing up that crap about him taking over a team with little talent like he was somehow deceived or caught off guard.

In Woodson’s tenue as HC, he’s started only 4 rookies or draft picks, JSmith, MWilliams, AHorford and RIvey, and the entire RIvey situation made absolutely no sense at all. Please explain Woodson’s logic when he brought RIvey off the bench his rookie yr and played him 13MPG, then makes him the starter the following yr and plays him 13.4MPG? DO YOU CONSIDER THAT SOME TYPE NEW OF DEVELOPMENTAL STRATEGY?

Bottomline, Woodson has only allowed 3 rookies under his watch to make mistakes and develop, and they comprise our current starting frontline. Wouldn’t you think he’d have enough sense to realize that every player that’s received the ALaw treatment is gone, and the 3 players that’s gotten the JSmith treatment is still on the roster and starting. Yet, he prefers to give rookie PG JTeague the same ALaw treatment that hasn’t worked for him, the players or the team.

HOW YOU CAN COME TO THE MISGUIDED CONCLUSION THAT WOODSON’S BEHAVIOR AND APPROACH HAS SOMEHOW CONTRIBUTED TO PLAYER DEVELOPMENT,AND THE TEAMS OVERALL DEVELOPMENT, IS BEYOND ME. HOWEVER, I’M NOT ONE TO ENGAGE IN WISHFUL THINKING.

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Who will be at the game Thursday night?!?!?!

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All of a sudden Sheldon William kwow what’s he talking about or could it be sour grapes? Sorry about the incorrect posting at 4:00pm.

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I guess a fan in the stands has more insight into the team than a former player from the team… LOL

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Melvin- you know I respect your take. But, 1)Are you really going to take what Sheldon Williams says as gospel? Did his coach not talk sweet enough to him in Sacremento either? What about Doc Rivers? Is that why he is playing so well for Boston? (note sarcasm).

You are right there has been a swing in Teague’s minutes, typically getting more minutes at home and more against other rookies. Wait a minute could I spin it that Woody is using Teague in situations where he might best succeed as a rookie thus improving his confidence? Dude is averaging 10 minutes a game. We are working out a new back court rotation and winning 11 games in the process.
It is really just over kill to harp on his minutes.

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Daniel,

I still dont understand why Teague only played 5 minutes against NO when Bibby only played 5 minutes (and the other guards were killing us, and our shots weren’t falling), so how worse could Teague do?. And it was the second game of a back to back.

But you’re right. It is probably overkill to be harping on Teague’s minutes already. I’m just concerned that his inconsistent minutes could last for the entire season, and if Bibby ever goes down for an extended period of time, I dont think Teague would be ready to pick up the slack.

Not to mention I am concerned about the lasting effect it might have on the young fellow (it could be similar to Salim, AC Law, and Shelden).

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*Truth-Serum!

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I got to admit, it seem rather convenient for the haters to say how all of these old time coaches developed these players but when it comes to Woodson its organic growth. Thats pretty funny I must say. Hopefully people can see right through it, for what its worth.

I guess that gets the gold star of the day!

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doc
let me make it easy for you so we wont be like a dog chasing his tail. You produce your list of the top ten coaches today. Or why don’t you look at last years coach of the year poll. Its no doubt in my mind that when compared to the coaches today, Woodson is in the top ten. Ive got a class to attend, Ill look for your list later and compare it with last years poll and go from there. Mean while lets open discussion on what “is broken”

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Gee Mack you are to be recognize for your exposing of hypocritical mind set in your presentation of double standards!! How on one hand coaches are given credit for developing player but the same honor is denied Woodson with out any validity.

Excellent submission. Good job!

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Doc, you can do better than that! I dont know of any coaches that dont respect Woodson. You want to share some insight on that?

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*I hope he can make as many positive plays as he makes detrimental ones

correction
November 23rd, 2009
5:08 pm

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Ken,

Josh, Marvin, & Al’s development had everything to do with Woody. He has helped these guys grow. The proof is in the puddin…the Hawks have improved. Josh no longer shots 3’s, Al productivity is up in points and rebs. MWilliams production is down mainly because Al & Josh are up as well as JC.

The Team is playing not as much Iso Joe. There is better ball movement as well, and they are starting to play better defense. That’s my logic. Woody is a good coach.

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truth, from the other blog seems this topic got some burn and ray agrees though not as simply or succinctly:

Big Ray
November 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm

What tickles the brain just a bit is something that somebody else brought up. What happens if Bibby’s not ready to go on Thursday….or any other stretch of the season?

Oh, I think we know the answer. Jamal starts, and the usual suspects come off the bench. Jamal and JJ will play 42+ minutes apiece (okay, okay, 45 minutes or more). Teague will get some burn…right where his hiney meets the chair….

Seriously, if Bibby is not ready to go, that is what most likely will happen. Now here’s what I think (for what it’s worth…uh, nothing). I’d rather keep from burning JJ and Jamal too hard, and let Teague get thrown to the wolves a bit. Let him feel the burn on the court some. Yes, you want to win the game, but let him at it just a bit. Unless of course he is just really screwing the pooch out there. Just use it as a learning/teaching experience. After all, who else do you have? We have exactly 4 guards. They all need to be ready to play, and able to get into a rhythm.

heh heh, ray is never at a loss for words.

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Oh yea,

Forget about Teague sniffing the floor on Thursday. This is the biggest game of the year. I don’t think so.
I’m still baffle by the consistent reference to :Salim,Acie,Sheldon and Royal Ivey. Totally blown away. Do you guys really believe these guys were good ball players on the NBA level? It really makes you look stupid by bringing these guys up.

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WHEN THEY LOSE A GAME YALL START COMPLAINING, IT’S JJ HES HOGGING THE BALL ITS THIS ITS THAT, THEY JUST LOST A GAME, ITS OVER, LIKE JAY Z SAYS ” ON TO THE NEXT ONE” ITS A TEAM THING, THEIR THE TOP TEAM IN THE NBA, ITS NOT JUS THE TEAMS GUNNING FOR THEM, ITS THE LEAGUE TOO, THEY DONT WANT THE HAWKS ON TOP, SO NOW THERE MAKIN IT HARD FOR THEM, JUST LOOK AT THE REFS HOW THEY CALL, AND THEY STARTING WITH J SMOOVE, THEY TRYING TO GET THEM IN FOUL TROUBLE AND MAKE SMOOVE LOOSE HIS MIND THEN HES OUT OF HIS GAME, BUT KNO ONE CAN STOP THE HAWKS BUT THEM SELVES!!! HOLLA!!!

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NIREMETAL-Cleveland acquired Shaq so they would have someone big and strong enough to play DHoward in the playoffs without having to double team. We acquired Collins so we would have someone big and strong enough to play both Shaq and DHoward without having to double team.

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Ken Strickland,

Correction on Horford: Only his rebound nimbers (Nique) went down in his second year (9.7 to 9.3) His points, assists, steals, blocks, and FG% all went up. His TO’s and PFs were down, but we’d hope so, eh?

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Go Hawks!!! Woody=COY

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*as they abide in denial

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Daniel,

I value your point of view as well but My 2nd post at 4:20 was not a response to you. However, just b/c Shelden didn’t live up to his expectation as a Hawk, is that reason to discredit what he said? And he seem to be fitting in quite well with the Celtics. Could it be b/c he has a defined role on that team and he know what the coach wants him to do? Keep in mind he said there was a lack of communication between him and the coach so he didnt know what they wanted from him.

I think we all are happy to be 11-3 but i also think there’s room for constructive criticism and after seeing the development of Ivey, Salim, Acie and now seeing Teague being treated similiar (although its early in the season) I think it’s fair game to be a little concern.

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rms,

We’ve had a gazillion threads since AJC launched this blog and we always come back to talking about the same things. Why do you think the next thread will be any different?

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Come on Ken,

If we win, you only write a couple of lines about how the hawks won cause “you” suggested they try something different. Isn’t it really better for your blogging career that we get blown out so your “Woody Bashing” can have a little more legitimacy? Right now, you look kinda foolish since we’re in 1st place, don’t you think?

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HC MW is a 2nd tier COACH!

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Samuel –
the 57 win team back in 94 was the best team and many contend that had they not traded away Nique at mid-season – they would have made it to the finals. The season is young and I’m still optimistic that we can win the east but until Woodson plays his bench more, developes his young point guard better and draws up more plays for Al and Josh AND wins 50+ with an eastern conference championship apperance – he can kick rocks. Bibby is the player-coach anyway.

Ken Strickland – “Has anyone noticed how Smoove’s habit of getting the rebound, and going coast to coast and spending more time on the perimeter taking jumpshots, has increased? Have you also noticed how it seems to coincide with JJ reverting back to the ISO’s and one on one play? And it all seems to coinside with Woodson’s reversion back to his old habit of overplaying his key starters and underplaying his bench.”

Let’s hope that is not regression and just an anomaly in this young season.
Go Hawks!!!

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thanks for the good laugh fellas…

according to the blog’s very own basketball expert… ahem samuel

woody is a better coach than larry brown. HA! seriously, even your “CUZ” would call you a bumbling fool for that one.

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Samuel, Its beyond rational how anyone can taste soup and say its great but the chef is f_cked up? Even when the Hawks win the haters are there on the horizon, waiting for the next loss so they can spew their boiling vomit.

Best record in the NBA for a team that is projected to finish no better than fourth and off with the coach’s head. I agree. There’s not a lot of wisdom there. You’d think at some point they’d concede an argument they have clearly lost. I guess they are waiting for a two game loss to hope there losing position would gain some traction. Give it a rest Bubba.

KevinA What is Josh’s ranking for assists on the team? How does that compare with PF’s NBA wide? How many times has Josh went coast to coast and was able to finish or get and assist as opposed to how many times he turns the ball over or doesnt complete the break?

Those are the questions Id like the Josh haters to answer before slinging rhyme without reason. Its nothing wrong with thinking.

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Ken @ 10:25 writes “They are quick to dismiss any mention of ALaw, SJones, SWilliams, SStaudemire, which was exactly the attitude Woodson seems to have taken towards them. ”

In case anyone has a short memory, you can add Boris Diaw to the list. When I asked a friend who worked with Coach Woodson why Diaw didn’t play he said succinctly “Coach doesn’t think he can play.”

Doesn’t that say it all?

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Cuz knows better. The proof is in the pudding.
Larry Brown’s coaching record in the last 4 years is 116-143
Woody’s record is- 125-135

So how does that make Brown a better coach?

Hawks Fan in NO. Was the 94′ team ever #1 in the power rankings for two weeks in a row? I know the season is still young but “RIGHT NOW” we’re the best team in the NBA and that’s never happened as far as I know. So, right now Woody is the best coach in the NBA.

Woody=COY
Josh=DPOY
JJ=All NBA
Jamal=SMOY
Isn’t it time for you to go to bed or got to work or go to some “Military Parade” or something. Get off my Nutts.

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Man I don’t know what to think about all this love the Hawks are starting to get lol:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/?eref=sinav

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sybil * 6:24 PM

** If the soup makes you vomit ? Then might we criticize the chef ? You said it ,
*** (” they can spew their boiling vomit”).

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“The proof is in the pudding.
Larry Brown’s coaching record in the last 4 years is 116-143
Woody’s record is- 125-135″

“So how does that make Brown a better coach? ”

Samuel, Samuel, Samuel,

Are you just posturing here?

Mike Woodson: Reg. season 164-260 -.386%, 2 playoff appearances, once to conference semis. Playoff record 7-11- .388%

Larry Brown: Reg. season 1024-824 – .554%, Playoff record 100-89 – .529%

College: 1 National Championship, 3 Final Fours in 7 seasons

Pro: 1 Championship, 3 Conference Championships, 10 Division Championships, 25 Playoff appearances in 26 seasons

Geez, it looks even worse in comparison than I thought.

But the last 4 years convince you that Woody’s a better coach. Yet you go on and on about the lack of talent Woody had at first. There’s some truth to that to be sure.

How about Charlotte’s or NY’s talent level over Brown’s tenures? Why does Brown not get the same caveat as Woody?

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