A fresh start
I know you didn't see enough of rookie point guard Jeff Teague against Portland. Who wants to be their lunch money that he plays big minutes against Sacramento tonight?
SACRAMENTO – Before you finish your sentence complaining about Jeff Teague not playing against Portland and Joe Johnson playing too much, chew on one thing.
What if you are not alone? What if you’re not the only fan base whose general manager, coach, star player, sixth-man and last man on the roster drive you crazy?
What, you thought you cornered the market on being ticked off?
You are not.
Our good friend Nire passed along this message earlier today (or last night or whenever, being out west throws off my equilibrium, even after all these years of covering the league):
It’s always funny to me reading Blazers fan blogs and seeing how not alone Hawks fans are in our neuroses. Blazers fans have their own Mike Bibby (Andre Miller), JJ (Brandon Roy), Josh Smith (Travis Outlaw), Marvin Williams (Martell Webster), Teague (Jerryd Bayless), Al Horford (Greg Oden), and Zaza Pachulia (Joel Przybilla). They even talk about Nate McMillan almost exactly like we talk about Mike Woodson. Seriously, it’s uncanny. I just emailed Big Ray a series of blog posts from BlazersEdge where you could just substitute in the Hawks’ player’s names and it would be a typical comment section in your blog. My favorites:
“Brandon has dribblexia”
“Oden needs to be further integrated into the offense—immediately!”
“This team has needed a defensive-minded off guard — not a floor general (i.e., Miller), midget shooting guard (i.e, Bayless), or athletically challenged off guard (i.e., Steve Blake) — so Kevin Pritchard not trading for Kirk Hinrich midway through last season is inexcusable in my opinion.”
But why be like everybody else when you can move on? This is the time for a fresh start for your team and for you as fans. The Sacramento Kings await tonight at Arco Arena. They’re a new challenge, something else to focus on.
Win another game out here and then you can really start getting crazy about what could be in this first month of the season. Either way, I’m moving on tonight. No more griping about Mo Evans seeing limited minutes against the Trail Blazers after playing so well up until that game. I’m done taking shots at Marvin because he can’t seem to find his groove.
It’s time for a fresh start (tip off is at 10 p.m., don’t be late).
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861 comments Add your comment
doc
November 10th, 2009
10:06 pm
rod cool, a blog is a good place to agree to disagree … or say i told you so.
Jody
November 10th, 2009
10:22 pm
While I won’t say that Teague should start at point guard right now, I will say that I think he CLEARLY has the ability to start for this team and be an impact player right now. To stymie that ability in favor of playing a guy whose clearly on the downside of his basketball career is FOOLISH. The reality is the Hawks are not going to compete for a title this year. With that being said, it’s in their best interests to develop a guy who very well could play a big part in helping them to reach elite level status sooner rather than later.
Traceman
November 10th, 2009
11:32 pm
Ken,
I think it is pretty clear that we are better with Bibby on the floor when our top 5 lineups with regard to +/- all include Bibby. In addition, per minute, Bibby has the highest +/- on the team.
At this point in the season, all we can do is look at what has happened thus far and regardless of minutes played, the team has played better with Bibby on the floor.
Your assertion that all Bibby does is shoot 3’s is absurd. Bibby has a deadly midrange J, he understands situations, he rarely turns the ball over, he runs the pick and roll well, he consistently makes big shots and contrary to what you say, his mere presence on the floor makes doubling JJ (or Crawford) very difficult.
You assertion that Teague’s ability to penetrate and dish will increase our offensive versatility and overall effectiveness is nothing but SPECULATION at this point. You COULD be right, but you could be wrong. As things stand now, we KNOW that the lineup of Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Smoove and Horford has the 4th highest +/- of any lineup in the entire NBA. I’m sure that Bibby’s ability to catch and shoot off of JJ’s and Crawford’s creative abilities has a lot to do with that unit’s success. Teague would have to be pretty dang good to improve upon that.
This quote says it all regarding your bias against Bibby:
“TRACEMAN-the fact that Bibby and JJ play well together doesn’t change the fact that Bibby is a jumpshooter that can’t breakdown DEF’s with his penetration, is useless if he’s not hitting his jumper, doesn’t create easy scoring opportunities for his teammates, and can’t guard elite PG’s, which puts added pressure on JJ to do so.”
You acknowledge that Bibby and JJ play well together and then talk about all the things Bibby doesn’t do well. If they play well together and we win, WHO CARES about Bibby’s deficiencies?
Besides, Bibby covers up for a lot of JJ’s deficiencies as well. Bibby is a great shooter who makes shots after JJ throws him the ball with 2 seconds on the shot clock (after JJ has pounded it for 10 seconds). Bibby can be effective at PG without the ball in his hands (exactly why Roy likes playing with Blake over Miller so far). Bibby can settle the team down when JJ is struggling.
Like I said, I like Teague a lot and I see him as our PG of the future. But there is NO WAY he starts over Bibby when the team is playing so well with Bibby there. Starting Teague over Bibby would be like POR starting Bayless over Blake and Miller or the Lakers starting Farmar over Fisher.
KevinA
November 11th, 2009
2:15 am
The season is young and the sample set is still small but the Hawks seem better than last year and have more potential. We are certainly more versatile and deeper giving Woody more options.
ISO ego and jacking jumpers from the back court was my biggest concern when we signed Crawford. In my view Bibby and JJ had taken way to many shots last year. I didn’t see how signing Crawford would change that. Of course I was wrong about the impact that Jamal has made. He has been great and a welcome addition.
But my concern of balance still remains. We still take to many jumpers that come from one on one plays.
JJ and Crawford are off to a great start. Are we due for a crash? Career highs are just that. They are having career highs in FG%. Will ISO ego reign in the end with our back court? Or will we play balanced team ball and to a bigger extent get the rest of the team more involved.
Lets not forget Marvin, Evans, ZaZa and Joe Smith who are just as important over a long season. They need their touches and shot attempts in the scheme of unselfish ball movement. Being close to 30 assists is a good barometer.
We don’t win if Josh doesn’t defend. Interesting how we seem to get better ball rotation when Josh is scoring and defending. Interesting how Al and Josh have become assist machines with few turnovers. Interesting how JT and Jamal make everybody else look so slow.
We have the ability to win against anybody if egos are put aside. Look maybe egos is to tough a word, maybe style of play is better. Teams like the Nicks may allow the Hawks to make a few mistakes or at least more so than Boston but for the first time in years the Hawks control much of their destiny themselves against any team.
We still have yet to see the Hawks put it all together, and I understand these things take time. I had thought it might take till the end of next year or the year after. Adding Jamal and JT put my hopes on the fast track for this year. We have kinks and wrinkles to work out and 70 something games to do it. An exciting year, lets get-er-done.
vava74
November 11th, 2009
6:22 am
I’m 80% with Ken on this debate, my 20% reserve are justified with the fact that Bibby brings to the court experience, awareness and intangibles that Teague still lacks.
In the end, I think that this debate is fruitless since EVERYONE is happy with Teague’s talent (including Woody) and Bibby is already aware that his days as the starting PG are numbered.
I am 100% sure that he re-signed with us having been told and accepted that he will be slowly moving to the bench during this season.
As for Rod’s commentaries… well, Rod’s assertion of a player’s “winning attitude” are the number of tattoos and gun charges…
His ALL NBA team would be Jax, Iverson, Delonte, … and whoever else has a load of tattoos and has been arrested for carrying guns!!!
I don’t question their talent, however, apart from West, they are a far cry from what a real basketball player should be.
dap01
November 11th, 2009
7:56 am
Jamal and JT are what will get us to a higher level than last year. No more stagnant ball movements because of our guards. The speed and unselfessness of JT and JC are contageous. JC and JT get the big men involved like guards should.
ILL-logical
November 11th, 2009
9:36 am
Will tonight’s game be JJ(and Woodson’s- he may want to become an assistaint in New york for the pay and exposure after the ATL) first audition for starring roles on the 2010-11 Knick’s or will the progress in ball movement and sharing continue as the team approaches the Boston game?
An aside: don’t look for anything like rational behavior from the ajc, in the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson: “The ship be sinking”.
The last few days’ discussions concerning w/not Bibby should be replaced by Teague or whether or not Marvin should be benched are interesting since they are occuring in the context of a successful season-over .500 on the road and 1.00 at home.
Eventually, changes will be made but only in the case of injury or after the mid point of the season. It is still early and we haven’t played any of our major rivals yet.
Mike is back
November 11th, 2009
9:45 am
I said it once I will say it again…why the need to rush Teague. Bibby is as GOOD as they come when it comes to running a team. Woody is doing the right thing. There are a number of rotations yet to be worked out for this team. The best thing is Teague can fill in all of them…over time.
D ole Hoops Coach was right…TEAGUE has to improve his jump shot before he can become a permanent fixture in the starting line…THE best THING he needs to be doing is paying attention to Bibby…not playing ahead of him.
You guys are tough. WE TALKING ABOUT BIBBY…MR ICE WATER UNDER PRESSURE. Yeah, he may be a step slower because of wear and tear…but he is still one of the top PGs in game. Some overlook his intangible benefits because they are more focus on his defense…thankfully even Woody is smarter than that. Teague time will come…but he is just one piece of the puzzle.
Getting minutes for reserve Bigs is just as pressing as getting Teague more minutes. That is OUR weakest link. That why I think Woody has done a great job of coaching thus far. I want be his voice box…that’s Samuel job. Lol…but as this team continues to evolve…you could hear his name MENTIONED in some COY talks.
I finally heard a positive comment about RandMo ON THE BLOG. I hope Woody keeps finding minutes for him to give him a chance to contribute to the team. YOU GET RANDMO AND COLLINS GOING TO ADD TO THE MIX…THEN THE HAWKS COULD MATCH UP WITH ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.
THERE IT IS…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ken Strickland
November 11th, 2009
11:08 am
TRACEMAN-I hope our little debate is as entertaining for you as it is for me, especially since this has become an orphan blog. I really like you demeanor and the way you present you stance.
I acknowledge the chemistry between JJ and Bibby. That chemistry is part of the reason last yrs OFF ended up in so many ISO Joe and Bibby situations and turned into a guard and perimenter oriented, jumpshooting OFF. I also acknowledge that Bibby contributes more than just shooting 3pt jumpshots, but you act like those additional attributes are unique to only Bibby.
You keep making a point of Bibby rarely turning the ball over. First of all, there are several factors you conveniently ignore that contributes to that low turnover rate.
(1)As our starting PG, he only controls the ball about half the time because JJ also runs the OFF about half the time.
(2)He rarely penetrates and dishes or makes interior passes to his frontline players.
(3)He spends the majority of the time he has the ball on the perimeter of the DEF.
(4)Because of his slow foot speed, he frequently walks the ball up and is seldom ahead of the DEF on fast break situations.
None of these are high risk situations and contribute as much to his low turnover rate as an particular ball handling skills.
You conveniently ignored the stats that I presented that showed Teague has contributed almost as many APG as Bibby in half as many mins and his ASSIST TO TURNOVER RATIO is double that of Bibby’s. By penetrating and attacking the DEF, dishing to his frontline players, getting ahead of the DEF and running fast breaks, going coast to coast on some fast break opportunities, Teague is doing a high risk, high reward activity. And yet, he still manages to almost match his APG and double his ASSIST TO TURNOVER RATIO, while playing only half of Bibby’s MPG on an inconsistent basis. WHY CONTINUE TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OF BIBBY’S LOW TURNOVER RATE WHEN TEAGUE’S TURNOVER AND ASSIST RATE, PER MINS PLAYED, IS DOUBLE THAT OF BIBBY’S? Again, you’re acting like what Bibby does, besides shooting long range jumpers, is unique to Bibby.
You made the following statement: “IF THEY PLAY WELL TOGETHER AND WE WIN, WHO CARES ABOUT BIBBY’S DEFICIENCIES? Well, the opposing DEF cares about his deficiencies. Orlando used Ilgouskas’ deficiencies in playing the pick and roll and prevented Cleveland from having a chance at playing in the finals and possibly winning an NBA title, and Bibby is our Ilgouskas. The NBA is a league the thrives on creating, exposing and exploiting matchups, and Bibby doesn’t matchup well defensively with anybody. He’s not tall, quick, fast, physical or athletic, nor does he have good footwork or lateral movement and doesn’t fight over picks well at all. He doesn’t penetrate and dish, or create easy scoring opportunities for his teammates.
YET, YOU WANT TO OVERLOOK ALL OF THE THINGS BIBBY CAN’T DO, AND IGNORE ALL OF THE THINGS TEAGUE CAN DO, WHICH IS MOST OF THE THINGS BIBBY CAN’T DO, JUST BECAUSE WE’RE WINNING GAMES. WOW! DON’T YOU THINK WE COULD CONTINUE WINNING GMS WITH A STARTING PG THAT CAN DO ALL OF THE THINGS BIBBY CAN’T DO, WITH BIBBY DOING WHAT HE CAN DO COMING OFF THE BENCH? OR, ARE YOU SAYING IF WE START TEAGUE, WE’LL AUTOMATICALLY START LOSING?
Ken Strickland
November 11th, 2009
11:45 am
NEW BLOG UP, FINALLY.
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