Pump your brakes
LaMarcus Aldridge will get a chance to get after Josh Smith (hand reaching for the ball) and the Hawks tonight at the Rose Garden. A knee injury won't keep him on the sideline (and major props to my man Salim Stoudamire - corner right - who is one of Portland's All-Time finest).
PORTLAND – Pump your brakes.
I’ll do it if you do it.
Because it appears we’ve gone a bit overboard with the panic room act after the Hawks’ loss Sunday in Los Angeles to the Lakers.
More than a couple Hawks reminded me before, during and after practice Monday that we’re still in the first, five-game stint of the season. We’re just three games in, with Game 4 up tonight against a strong Trail Blazers team at the Rose Garden.
“People had us winning the championship last year when we got off to that 6-0 start,” Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said and then laughed. “Everybody needs to calm down and just keep working. It’s a long season, man. Every coach I’ve ever had tells you that [the season] is a marathon and not a sprint. And that’s true. Don’t get me wrong, you’ve got to play with urgency. But you also have to keep the season in perspective.”
Perspective is something that would come in handy around here, for me and for you.
I’m not in the habit of predicting disasters but I can admit to having a bad feeling about that Lakers game. I knew they’d be hungry to make a point after losing at home the Mavericks a couple nights earlier. And I know the Hawks have a penchant for not fully understanding what it is to be focused, locked and loaded on the road.
JJ erased any fears I had with his outlandish first quarter performance against the Lakers. After he lit Kobe Bryant up for 18 points in nine minutes I started crafting my “Hawks finally show claws at Staples” story. Then the third quarter came along and I hit the delete button.
This game against the Blazers presents a similarly tough challenge; my guess is road teams won’t find this venue much easier to deal with this season than they do Staples Center. It also provides the Hawks with a chance for a little Rip City redemption. Find a way to outwork the Blazers and their All-Star (Brandon Roy)-led crew and maybe we can put file that Lakers debacle away for nit-picking at a later date.
CLOSE TO HOME
For Seattle natives like Jamal Crawford and Marvin Williams, the annual trip here to Portland is closest they’ll get to home. Since the Sonics packed up shop and moved to Oklahoma City (and were renamed the Thunder), there’s been a huge void in the road schedule for teams used to doing the Pacific Northwest two-step between this city and it’s neighbor to the north.
For guys who grew up immersed in the NBA culture that that Sonics provided that void is even more pronounced.
“You grow up your whole life dreaming about making the league and playing for the Sonics,” Williams said. “I was lucky enough to make it and play in Seattle before they [left town]. But it’s brutal, not having them anymore. It still stings for a lot of people and probably always will.”
Marvin’s career-high remains the 33 points he dropped on his hometown team Jan. 25, 2008. In fact, he’s always played well when the Hawks travel to this northwest corridor of the country. Maybe it’s all the family and friends that come to see him. Or maybe it’s just being in familiar territory that gets him going. Whatever it is, don’t be surprised to see both Marvin and Jamal go off tonight against the Blazers.
GOOD JOSH, BAD JOSH
There’s a funny, or not so funny depending on your perspective, debate that happens on press row shortly after the start of most Hawks games about which Josh Smith is in the building.
Is it good Josh (the one averaged 18.5 points and led the Hawks in assists by attacking the paint in the first two games of this season) or bad Josh (the one that showed up for that Lakers game and rarely ventured inside on offense and remained largely ineffective for all but a few minutes)?
The Hawks need good Josh to show up against the Trail Blazers tonight. They need the active Josh, the one that played superbly at home in wins over both the Pacers and Wizards to start the season. They need the Josh that changes games with his defensive presence and triggers and finishes fast breaks like few players in the league can.
What they don’t need is the Josh that spends more time complaining to the referees than he does chasing rebounds and loose balls. They don’t need the Josh that refuses to dive to the basket when JJ has the ball on the wing and is being double teamed and needs a safety valve.
I’ve debated with numerous folks – scouts, agents, executives, other players and just about anyone else you can imagine – this notion that the Hawks go as he Josh goes. I’ve never really bought into that premise. But I’m starting to see the light. When he’s at his best, the Hawks are literally at their best. And when he’s not … you saw the Lakers game.
ALDRIDGE TO PLAY?
The status of Trail Blazers big man LaMarcus Aldridge is no longer uncertain for tonight’s game. The knee injury he suffered during Sunday’s win over Oklahoma City is not expected keep him out of the game, per the Oregonian.
Aldridge has given the Hawks major fits here – averaging 20.0 points and 9.5 rebounds in Portland’s last two games against the Hawks here.
ONE LAST THING
I ran across this link that is required reading from Yahoo! Sports columnist Adrian Wojnarowski. Woj attacks the simmering issue that is Chris Paul’s plight in New Orleans. It’s good stuff. Take a break from work, my treat, and read it. You’ll be glad you did.
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601 comments Add your comment
doc
November 4th, 2009
9:42 am
said it on the other blog, good win. woody got them through it by giving jamal burn and not getting in his way. it was crawfords game last night, one of many i predicted when the trade was made. also liked and predicted the line up at the end should be one we see a lot this season especially at the end. i like good “enders” not starters. really good d last night holding them to 91 after they got up by 10 in the first quarter, yup, i like it.
darrell starks
November 4th, 2009
9:50 am
Doc im sorry but woody almost blew the game, why in the world would you bring in bibby with 4min left to guard andre miller and move jamal 2 small forward 2 guard 6′9 travis outlaw, that was dum when the hawks was playing great defense with jamal at point.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 4th, 2009
9:56 am
Jamal can’t guard the 2 or the 3 he is better defender at the point if we are going 2 have a chance woody must coach smarter and realized that bibby is a liability late in the game on defense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Doug
November 4th, 2009
9:57 am
Little has been said about how our “undersized” center AH with 11-13-1 outplayed the hulk Oden -8-9-0… wish we had a “true” center!!!
O'Brien
November 4th, 2009
10:01 am
darrell starks,
I think the reason Woody brought Bibby in is because it gives them another big shot maker. With JJ, Crawford, and Bibby, thats 3 guys who can take and make big shots down the stretch.
If Crawford is at the 1, and JJ at the 2, who does Woody put in at 3? Marvin Williams? Mo Evans? I think Woody prefers to sacrifice Bibby’s defense for his offense.
Rod from College Park
November 4th, 2009
10:17 am
The problem with some of you who say Jamal does not need to start, as long as he is in the game at the end is the fact that we notoriously start slow, and get down early because Joe has not warmed up, and no one else is capable of creating their own shot. Jamal no doubt should start.
Ken,
To continue to state that Marvin could do what Granger does in his offense, or to state that Marvin is a better fit for this team is what discredits any other statements that you make. If you are wrong, Man up and admit it. Marvin did not play great defense on any one yesterday. He got a block and rebounded well. Any 6′11 stiff could do that. Hell Sheldon Williams is averaging 6.6 rebounds per game this year. A #2 draft pick who the coach and GM told you before the season needs to step up this year that is averaging 9 points a game is a joke.
macaroni tony
November 4th, 2009
10:18 am
O’Brien
No matter how you feel about the game last night we got the ‘W’. Woody have have to try different line ups to see what works and what doesn’t work.
macaroni tony
November 4th, 2009
10:21 am
I think that MW needs to step up but he will not get the touches that DG get’s. But it’s only the fourth game so I would like to see more before I write MW off.
Ree Roe
November 4th, 2009
10:23 am
LOL @ Granger being a top 5 player in the NBA. He MIGHT be top 20. What defense does Granger play? Does he create shots for anyone besides himself? He’s a good player, but top 20 in the Association? I agree with Sekou, some/most of the comments on the Hawks range b/w make believe-absurd.
BTW, Marvin’s Defense>>>>Granger’s
-REEcently Roe
Sautee
November 4th, 2009
10:25 am
Samuel,
Do NOT put words in my mouth that I never said:
Sautee,
“Woodson didn’t sign him. Hell, he doesn’t even have a contract himself. I’m sure he would have rather signed Frye, Rasheed or Shaq. You know a real player. Oh yea, you guys said these guys were malcontents, old and over rated.”
Samuel, go back and find where I said ANY of that about those players. You won’t find it, because I did NOT.
Here’s what I DID say: Shaq was not ever going to sign with us if he had the chance to go play with LeBron. Rasheed said (before anyone had made him an offer) that he wanted at least $8M / yr. I said that was WAY too much for the production he’s likely bring. Frye I said would be a decent pickup but not likely to make us any better than Joe Smith at twice or more Joe Smith’s salary.
No malcontent, no old, no overrated. You owe me an apology.
As you might have said: Samuel, you’re better than that.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2009
10:28 am
In 30 mpg, Marvin averages 9.3 pts, 5.5 rebs, and 0.5 assists. Its not Marvin’s fault he was drafted #2, or that he is the 5th option on offense after JJ/Crawford/Bibby/Josh.
But he’s shooting 32% from the field, and 33% from 3. Thats unacceptable.
Ree Roe
November 4th, 2009
10:29 am
BTW, if Jamal starts, what offense do we have coming off the bench? ZaZa? Mo Evans? C’mon yall Jamal starting is the dumbest thing I’ve read on this blog (and that’s sayin ALOT). Plus, Jamal starting leaves us at a defensive mismatch b/c Jamal is gonna get pushed around by most starting SG’s in the league. Do yall really want a Bibby/Crawford starting backcourt on D? Really? I hope Woody never reads most of this nonsense b/c these suggestions are insane. Keep up the good work Sekou!
-REEcently Roe
JM
November 4th, 2009
10:34 am
I disagree with those that think JCraw should start. We need a spark off the bench, last year it was Uncle Flip, this year it’s Crawford. If Marvin hasn’t got it done with the starters, what makes you think he’ll get it done with the second unit. Simply put – Jamal can score of the bench and facilitate others like he did with Zaza last night.
If anything, I would give Mo a chance if Marvin doesn’t wake up.
Go Hawks!
MsDee
November 4th, 2009
10:34 am
SIOPAO,
I think you might have a good point..I say start Mo Evans instead of Marvin and still have Crawford come off the bench for that 6th man award..your startin lineup be Bibby, Joe, Mo, Josh & Al; 2nd lineup Teague, Crawford, Marvin, Joe Smith(or Al), Zaza..this way everyone, including Teague gets quaility min!! What do your guys think?
The Truth
November 4th, 2009
10:43 am
Kudos to the Hawks on a victory against a very tough team; I called this a character building win because it was EARNED. Portland played well but lost it in the final minutes primarily because of our defense intangibles and unexpected rebound advantage. Crawford played extremely well and at a level that matched the hype that has been surrounding him. I’m giving a special Kudos to Zaza for also playing well after I had been very critical of his previous performance against the Lakers. Beyond his obvious physical limitation, I had forgotten about the intangibles Zaza brings that make him so special; his grit, determination and heart. I don’t apologize for my previous comments but I will give him credit in this game. It’s amazing how these aforementioned intangibles can overcome most limitations.
Something else after last night victory I had also forgotten about. Sund last year comment about emotional reactions from the Hawks wins and loses. He said it is best not to get TOO HIGH from a WIN or TOO LOW from a LOST as it a long season. As I have been reading some of these campaign-like bashing related comments about individual Hawk players, maybe we should all pause and embrace Sund’s wisdom. Making constructive criticism is one thing; but it is conflicting to HATE A HAWK PLAYER while claiming you LOVE THE TEAM. You know you have a conflict when:
1. Subconsciously your greatest joy is to witness the total demise of an individual Hawk player.
2. While the fans are down after a lost; you are overly excited to see how bad your hated player looks.
3. While the fans are excited after a win as the case last night; that’s peanuts compared to a particular poor play by your hated player.
4. Your greatest fear will be to witness an outstanding performance by your most hated player. It would be awkward and impossible for you to pay him a compliment.
As we get further into the season, these emotions will be harder and harder to hide. Ultimately you have to make a choice of what’s more important; Hawks victories or validation of a previous position.
Ree Roe
November 4th, 2009
10:44 am
Mo Evans starting is still a liability on offense. We’re talkin about Marvin not being productive on offense…what do yall seriously think Mo Evans is gonna do as a starter? He’s not a scorer & he shouldn’t be starting on a potential 3 seed in the East. He’s fine coming off the bench. Anyway, we’ve played what, 4 games, and already the sky is falling in regards to Marvin Williams. Is he playing well right now? No, but we’re winning & he’s gonna play better. Have some faith that he’ll pick it up & that the depth of the team will mask any struggles he might be having.
LOL @ Jamal starting, Mo Evans starting, Granger being a top 5 player in the league. I’ve been laughing all morning.
-REEcently Roe
Sekou Smith
November 4th, 2009
10:44 am
Jamal off the bench is perfect. No way you change that up.
Grandad
November 4th, 2009
10:52 am
Rod frm Col. Pk.: Ken did not say, at least not that I’m aware of, that Marv was a better fit for this team. That was me. And “no” I am not Ken.
I remember him saying he thought when Granger shot “he thinks its going in every time”. Personally, I still like Marv, 4 games is not a large enough sample to kick him to the curb. Should the Falcons bench/trade “Matty Ice” because of his last 3 games? Now, if we could use Marv as a chip at the tr.deadline to acquire JaVale McGee or someone with that sdkill set…I would be all for it. Right now Marv’s a Hawk, the TEAM is 3-1 enjoy.
Jake
November 4th, 2009
10:53 am
Marvin Stinks…sit him, blah blah, blah……everybody cannot score twenty every night, he gets on my nerves too…but he our best on ball defender and he rebounds very well, yep he didn’t light up, but his length helps this undersized roster rebound on a nightly basis. check the stats, we don’t have a 13rpg guy on the roster, his 6 to 8 are big, thats why he is on the floor, if he’s picking his spots and adding 16 points to the mix, great, but rebounding and defending is his job…I gurantee that nobody on that team is looking for 20 fron Marvin everynight..everybody is critic on here i see
Sautee
November 4th, 2009
10:58 am
Ree-roe,
You said this: “what do yall seriously think Mo Evans is gonna do as a starter? He’s not a scorer & he shouldn’t be starting on a potential 3 seed in the East.”
Mo started 47 games for Orlando in 07-08. They were the #3 seed that year.
Just sayin……
But I’m not arguing for Mo to start. Like you, I’d say give Marvin a few more games to see if he’ll come out of it. He CERTAINLY played much better last year before he hurt his back.
Westurd
November 4th, 2009
11:01 am
Hey Sekou,
Any word on JTO? Why didn’t he get any minutes….I know its not time to worry, but is he in Woodys doghouse already? Anyone else have an answer?
ILL-logical
November 4th, 2009
11:03 am
“Jamal off the bench is perfect. No way you change that up.”
Have to disagree here:
Bottom line is that Crawford is the best the Hawk’s have in speeding up the tempo and getting the frontline involved. Is he the second coming of Walt “Clyde” Frazier? No, but he is the Batman to Joe’s Robin that just may help the Hawks get to the next level.
Grandad
November 4th, 2009
11:03 am
On the topic of Jamal starting; Manu Ginobili comes off the bench, and
S.A. seems to do quite well. I’ve been around long enough to remember
Havlicek. 6th man yet an all-star/hall of famer. Both examples; they
play/played the 4th qtr and finish the game.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2009
11:04 am
I know that Marvin is not going to score many points, so I hope he continues to play defense and get rebounds. But I expect him to shoot a higher FG % (currently 32% FG, 33% from 3).
That being said, Crawford is only shooting 21% from 3, so I’ll try to keep in mind that 4 games (out of 82) is a very small sample size.
macaroni tony
November 4th, 2009
11:06 am
I agree with REE-Roe we don’t start ME with a healthy MW
kwooden1
November 4th, 2009
11:09 am
GREAT WIN! last night, if they keep playing like this I might have to find the money for the NBA ticket!!!
Great job by Horford and Smoove rebounding and defending. Aldridge and Oden are beasts, but Horford and Smoove held their own. Crawford is who he is! a scoring machine! He’s a great fit for this team, you could really see how JJ and him can work well together.
I understand everyone’s issues with JJ playing so many minutes, but I don’t think it was as big a deal with this game because of the pace and he didn’t have to score as much. I would have liked to see Teague last night, but Woody was keeping Bibby on the floor because of his shooting. I hear everyone on Marvin, but I think he will be fine. He doesn’t need to score that much, just hit open shots, rebound and play defense. He missed some easy shots last night and didn’t play great defense but overall was satisfactory in my opinion. Marvin, just needs to get a little more confident in his shot and keep trying to get to the line.
Tonight can be a trap game, but I expect the HAWKS to play well. This will always be a big game for Bibby! Horford and Smoove have to play at a high level as usual but they won’t be challenged as much. Sacramento’s got a lot of young athletes and some good players off the bench. If the HAWKS play quality defense they should come out with a double digit win, but if they want to go up and down the floor with Sacramento it could be a tight game. This is a game that Marvin can have 20+ because the Kings will have to deal with Smoove inside and JJ outside. Bibby’s going to have to work hard though, Evans and Udrih are tough matchups for him.
GO HAWKS!!!
hawks_4_life
November 4th, 2009
11:15 am
Tonight is a different type of challenge. The back to back road game after a huge road win, dont fall for the trap. We will find out if this team is mentally tough.
Ree Roe
November 4th, 2009
11:20 am
@ Sautee, that’s true, but that was a couple seasons ago. I’m not sure who else they had on that ORL roster, but as for us this season, I don’t see what Mo gives you that Marvin isn’t giving you right now. We lose our length/athleticism on the defensive & rebounding end & we allow teams to double Joe b/c they can play off Mo. Marvin might not look for his shot all the time, but he’s a hellavu lot more dangerous offensively than Mo is.
@ ILL, we’re a top 5 scoring team with Jamal coming off the bench so were not hurting for scoring points. Jamal gives us a great scoring punch off the bench & we need that from our 2nd unit. I don’t see what we gain by starting him.
-REEcently Roe
niremetal
November 4th, 2009
11:38 am
I can’t believe I’m gonna say this…but I agree with darrell
darrell starks
November 4th, 2009
11:42 am
Rod from college park i no you going 2 hate me for this but marvin is our best defender at the 3 beside josh, unless we starte josh at the 3.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 4th, 2009
11:43 am
WOW thanks nire.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
MsDee
November 4th, 2009
11:48 am
Ree Roe,
Marvin coming off the bench is not all that bad considering he came off the bench in college to get such rave reviews to being a top draft pick!! Maybe Marvin would be more comfortable doing that since he wouldnt have to worry about feeding JJ the ball all the time..he needs to be that MAN on the floor for the 2nd unit!
Mz. Hawkdafied
November 4th, 2009
11:50 am
Mz. Hawkdafied has a problem with the rotation and minutes last night. Somebody, anybody help me understand why a team with improved depth only plays 8 of the 13 players on it’s roster with one player logging 45 minutes? Call it nitpicking or whatever you want but an inquiring mind would like to know what’s the deal on the real folks.
MsDee
November 4th, 2009
11:51 am
Starting Mo would not hurt the team..He too have pretty good defense and he can shot the long ball!! And having Marvin in the 2nd unit with the other teams 2nd unit will keep us on top with points while still playing great defense on their player.
doc
November 4th, 2009
11:53 am
darrell something worked including bibby working to aggravate on defense. they didnt outscore us in the end, we made some stops so all must be included in the win including woody.
funny, i might agree with rod on this one, marvin might be more of a liability last night than bibby against the blazers during the waning moments or the other option mo evans. it worked out so give credit where it is due. save the detrimental remarks for when we lose. now if stackhouse were on the bench then maybe i would criticize not having him on the court, but sadly he is not.
MsDee
November 4th, 2009
11:55 am
All I’m saying is switch it up sometimes and just see what happens..cause leaving things as is really make Marvin look BAD!! Yeah his defense is good but everything else just looks plan ole sloppy. I truely believe if Doc Rivers were our coach, he would consider that and you would be surprise at the outcome..Mann, look how Shelden Williams look with them! Doc give confidence to his players and they performs for him!
Bailout Coaching!
November 4th, 2009
11:56 am
JC bailout MW this time. No offensive scheme…
Little or no preparation for the BIG STAGE GAMES!!!
Mz. Hawkdafied
November 4th, 2009
11:58 am
Ms.Dee it couldn’t hurt to try something new and have Marvin come off the bench. If it doesn’t work just insert him back in the starting lineup. I say it doesn’t hurt to try and see if something else works.
Ben
November 4th, 2009
11:59 am
Sekou, are you leaving the AJC? They are advertising for a Hawks writer!
JeJe
November 4th, 2009
12:02 pm
Marvin’s only chance for a big game is tonight. Otherwise, he’s done
JeJe
November 4th, 2009
12:05 pm
Ken Strickland, if you think Marvin can be as effective as Granger with as many touches, you obviously know nothing about basketball. Comments like that really make me SMFH
MsDee
November 4th, 2009
12:14 pm
Mz. Hawkdafied
No, I wouldnt insert him back into the starting lineup..tryin something new like bringing him off the bench is what needs to stay b/c like I said, leaving things as is makes him look BAD! He cant look any worst not starting.
Grandad
November 4th, 2009
12:30 pm
Here’s an idea:
1. J. Tea.
2. Joe
3. Josh *more on this later.
4. Al
5. Zaza
_________
BENCH:
Jamal
Bibby
Mo
Marv
Joe Smith
_________
* A long time ago, LSU had a football unit known as the Chinese Bandits.
Not PC today I reckon, but my point being, 2nd unit would be
versatile with no set pos. Just play basketball. Come in wreak havok,
have fun.
Rufus1
November 4th, 2009
12:32 pm
Marvin or Moe
Marvin 6,9″ 245 Mo 6′5″ 220
Mo is to small to start for a team with an undersized front line. What needs to happen is Bibby and Marvin need to shoot better from the 3(atleast 40%).
Please stop blaming Marvin for being drafted 2nd…If he was drafted 18th, no one would be complaining. I think peoples anger over Chris Paul and Darren Williams clouds your objectivity. If we had the number 1# pick, Bogut would be a Hawk…Would you prefer Bogut?
These are the facts:
He has average 14pts a game as the fourth or fifth option.
He is a Good defender and who wants Joe guarding Lebron for 35 min a game.
He is a solid rebounder.
It is hard to ave 14pts a game in the NBA!!
Jamal is now the #2 scoring option..what do you think will happen to his points per game?
I agree he needs to shoot better, but he is 1st a rebounder and a defender.
Please Marvin haters, stop dreaming-up schemes to get Chris Paul and hope we re-sign Joe.
ILL-logical
November 4th, 2009
12:41 pm
In reference to Crawford’s starting at point guard:
In addition to the argument(s) advanced above, the question of replacing Jamal’s scoring off of the bench has been raised. My response is as follows.
First, Bibby’s long range shooting skills and veteran savvy could be emploed to fill in the “scoring gap”. My preferred solution ,however, would be to have Marvin come off of the bench. I see that as a more conducive circumstance for his skill set and temperment.However, that solution might require some personnel moves that some including the current incumbant head coach are not comfortable with.
Maybe Jason Collins can get out of the doghouse and contribute to the resolution of this issue?
Mike is back
November 4th, 2009
12:47 pm
Sekou, you are blazing starting out the gates…your last the three blogs was a great prelude to the events that unfolded in the game. The Sacramento game should be more intriguing because the Hawks have also struggled coming off of big win and falling to one the bottom feeders of the league. Something this game should start to give us some clues.
Doc, Ditto on Crawford…like I said before…if you’re the Hawks…Crawford is just what the doctor ordered!
Yeah, its early in the season…but finally some help from the bench… GREAT TEAM PERFORMANCE BY THE HAWKS!!!
That included Woody…if you missed that game u missed a treat. I love the defensive effort in the second half. You could hear Woody in the background lauding his guys to play defense.
GO HAWKS!!!
Sautee
November 4th, 2009
12:59 pm
Ree-roe,
Go back and read my post, man. I said I was NOT in favor of starting Mo, even if he DID start for the Magic in 07.
Sekou Smith
November 4th, 2009
1:12 pm
No dog house for JT. Just a deal where Woody didn’t go as deep into his rotation as even he would have liked. Expect to see a little of everyone tonight, maybe even RandMo.
JM
November 4th, 2009
1:16 pm
Marvin is who he is. I’m not knocking the dude, I just would like to see more out of him. It wouldn’t hurt to see if he could be more productive off the bench but my earlier statement still holds. Crawford should be our number 1 option off the bench.
Ernest
November 4th, 2009
1:21 pm
Good post by The Truth @ 10:43am. What most seem to forget is that it does not matter who starts but who finishes. As long as Crawford is getting between 25-32 minutes per game, he probably is OK with that. Coming off the bench as a ’sniper’ also allows him to examine the flow of the game before going in.