The morning after
The Hawks' frustrations were fueled by their own mistakes against the Lakers Sunday night at Staples Center.
LOS ANGELES – It probably feels just as nasty this morning as it did last night, that taste in the Hawks’ beaks after the Lakers kicked dirt all over them.
How a two-point game mushrooms into a 24-point rout in a matter of minutes would normally require CSI-level examination.
But not where the Hawks are concerned. The anatomy of their latest road debacle is similar to so many of its predecessors.
By now you know the routine. The Hawks trade punches, they make a decent game of it until things go slightly awry and the sky starts falling. The fall began with their disastrous third quarter, when the Hawks started handing the ball over to the Lakers like they were ordered to by the LA County Sherriff’s office.
And they wouldn’t stop giving it up. Play after play, they just kept turning it over. Josh Smith got his hands dirty, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford and Zaza Pachulia did, too.
The meltdown on the bench soon followed, with players shouting back and forth about the sloppiness.
The Lakers didn’t need the help. But they were happy to take advantage of the Hawks ineptitude and immaturity.
They piled up 12 fast break points in the third quarter alone, an 18-0 run ensued and the Lakers ended the game a good 20 minutes before the final buzzer sounded.
“We were so sluggish with the basketball, throwing it all over the gym,” Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. “They had a lot to do with it because they got up on us defensively and we went the other way.”
It didn’t help that the Hawks’ momentum early was halted by a head-scratching substitution. Joe Johnson was on a tear in the first few minutes of the game, piling up 18 points on 7-for-8 shooting, when Woodson inexplicably pulled him from the game with 2:39 to play in the quarter. For all the times we’ve moaned and groaned around here about JJ playing too many minutes, this was not the time to interrupt his flow. The playing rotation be darned, let the man shoot until he missed five straight. He stays on the floor until he misses, right?
Not this time.
Lakers star defender Ron Artest deserves a lot of credit for holding Johnson to just one field goal the rest of the way (Kobe Bryant certainly had no luck slowing Johnson down), but in hindsight, that quick and unexpected hook from Woodson seems even more perplexing after the fact.
“I’m not the coach of this team and I don’t decide who goes in and who comes out or when they do it,” a still upset Johnson said after the game about his groove being interrupted. “That’s beside the point. We didn’t fight at all in that third quarter. We just let things get out of hand and didn’t take it on ourselves to man up and defend the way we have to. You saw it, we just let them punch us in the face and we didn’t stand up for each other, we didn’t help each other at all. That can’t happen, not against a good team or any team. That just can’t happen.”
It did, like it has many times in the past for this team.
And the Hawks took yet another shot to their pride and profile on the big stage.
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213 comments Add your comment
Mychelfromatl
November 2nd, 2009
10:23 am
First???
Mychelfromatl
November 2nd, 2009
10:26 am
Wow…second time in my life.
Great to hear Joe get into the team after the letdown (not this home-sick stuff again this year, seriously?). All in all I did see things that have me thinking this is a much better Hawks team than last year.
@danweiner
November 2nd, 2009
10:30 am
Wow, you just killed it Sekou. This all falls on the shoulders of Woody. Inexplicable is the absolute best way to describe the decision to pull Joe. Beyond that, this team just doesn’t listen to Woody. Part of the problem in the third quarter is that the team just settles for jump shots time and time again. There is no aggressiveness whatsoever. Woody screams at them to be aggressive and they don’t listen. This team needs an attitude adjustment and it starts with the head man.
Mychelfromatl
November 2nd, 2009
10:31 am
- “The Hawks took yet another shot to their pride and profile on the big stage.”
SMH…SMDH(Shaking My Damn Head).
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:32 am
Yes, you were first. Contribute something useful besides the schoolgirl-giddy “first”. Hate that…
Anyway, I’m glad you said that about Joe’s substitution, b/c I was furious. He was on FIRE and it was sure to be one of his few 40 point games, if not better.. Unbelievable way to completely kill the momentum. We got outcoached BAD last night.
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:33 am
That loss last night has me sour. Sorry to snap Mychel, haha.
Ed G
November 2nd, 2009
10:34 am
Woodson pulling Joe was one of the biggest gaffes he’s made. Pretty much indefensible.
I especially don’t like hearing about players bickering and already questioning coaches.
ILL-logical
November 2nd, 2009
10:35 am
To our good friend in Portugal:
Thank you for your insights, they represent a fresh perspective and an unusual passion for professional basketball in general and the Hawks in particular.
However, as this is a marketplace of ideas and opinions a value may be assigned to the various expressions exhibited here. Your last two comments indicate to me that you had a keen but highly selective eye focused on the Lakers game.
First, you mentioned broken plays-what plays where broken except iso Joe since those were the only ones I observed? Second , you impugned certain motives based upon what-telepathy ? There was enough counterintutive behavior on the part of each and every starter last evening to fill a column but you seemed to be able to discern the thoughts of only one individual and seeminly ascribe the totality of responsiblity for the teams performance to that one individual’s moral shortcomings.
Perhaps your geographic location provides you with extra sensory perception? However if it does how could it not discern the lack of fronting of their man by our center when he was being overpowered by his opposite number or our small forward’s complete lack of concentration regarding his defensive assignment. Your antagonist’s man did not score 41 point!
My point is that when you express your opinions do not expect them to viewed as sacrosanct because of the erudite manner in which they are expressed.
A more careful reading of the facts and circumstances ,offered by the beat writer, offers a more nuanced but blunter viewpoint: coaching and the skillfull application thereof was a major if not determing factor in the contest’s outcome. You might wish to utilize your powers of discernment to determine the current head coach’s thoughts and motivations.
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:35 am
And there was a crazy case of deja vu last night where #5 was hanging around the 3-point line ALL NIGHT LONG just like years past. The first couple of games he was so disciplined and was in on so many rebounds. WHAT IN GOD’S name is he doing out there. Does he really not know he can’t shoot?
A Thinking Fan
November 2nd, 2009
10:38 am
Time for a coaching change; thanks Woody for your contributions these past 4/5 years! So long and have a good life as an assistant somewhere in the NBA of failed HCs.
Ed G
November 2nd, 2009
10:39 am
Anyone got a thesaurus?
tjhook_76544
November 2nd, 2009
10:40 am
I didn’t watch the game until late second quarter but I saw a team that competed on both ends, but does not have enough bullets in its gun to take down big elephants like the Lakers, Magic, Celtics, etc. Marvin Williams did not compete: He stood around during halfcourt sets on the perimeter. Why is a 6′9 guy not at least trying to score in the paint. Bibby and the others were working to create scoring opportunities, but the newly minted Hawks was content to let the team play 4 on 5 offensively.
Defensively, the Hawks are smaller than the Lakers; Andrew Bynum cherry-picked a lot of offensive rebounds and Lamar Odom helped finished the effort. That’s why running and gunning suits us: Our speed and athleticism is supposed to get bigger teams in foul trouble or make them temper their aggression.
We need to trade Marvin Williams. We need to get in this Stephen Jackson trade situation. We need another player who will play with a sense of urgency. A rookie with three games of experience (Teague) has more game savvy than Marvin. Teague played in the 4th quarter- I don’t even think Marvin saw the court in the final 12 minutes.
ES
November 2nd, 2009
10:40 am
I was following J.A. Adande’s live feed on ESPN during the game and he too was perplexed as to why Johnson was taken out. Was it foul trouble? Because even if Johnson had two fouls, you let the dude stay on the floor. He was the reason we were in the game at that point.
Also, Josh Smith still hasn’t learned that his game needs to start inside, not outside. Long 2’s are worse than 3’s! A long 2 pointer is the worst shot for him to take. He refused to drive to the hoops last night and it cost him.
Marvin is sleep-walking out there. He is straight sleep walking.
Love the effort from Crawford; at least he tried to attack the rim. He’s going to help us this year.
dap01
November 2nd, 2009
10:41 am
If a player refuses to play where he is suppose to play (not at the 3 point line), then take him out. What do you have to lose.
Does Woody want Josh out there?
Joja Boy
November 2nd, 2009
10:42 am
I think Woody, needed to experiment with a lineup that matched up better with the Lakers Length. He allowed the Lakeshow to dictate who he put on the floor instead of the other way around. During the fourth, after he had a better feel for who had it, he should have played, Joe Johnson, Joe Smith, Al Horford, Josh Smith, and either the Rook or Bibby. Lamar Odom is comparable to Josh, with much more seasoned approach and had him frustrated. Put Joe Smith on him and allow Artest to battle with Josh. You need Josh’s athleticism out there. Bibby played well agaisnt Fisher, as did Teague. Crawford for some reason had issues with Fisher, and for obvious reasons against Kobe. Overall I like the Hawks fought back, but they have to play tougher on the road… Too many times I saw lay-ups allowed. I beleive in the old addage, If you cant beat’em, Beat’em. Meaning if the score gets out of hand, make them think twice about throwing lobs to Farmer, or Kobe taking it the hole. Make sure he remembers how it feels to earn a trip to the freethrow line. For years I have watched Joe Johnson, when in a one-on-one situation with a player of equal or greater talent allow the lay-up. Set the tone, you never foul out, so that shouldnt be a part of the thought process, and if you do so be it.
Hawks need to take a more blue collar Detroit Bad Boy approach, and develop toughness needed to crack the top 6 teams in all of the NBA. They have the talent, now they need to accept the responsibility!
O'Brien
November 2nd, 2009
10:43 am
Woody is partly to blame for this loss.
If his plan says to pull you with 3 minutes left in the quarter, then he will pull you with 3 minutes left in the quarter, no matter how hot you are. I remember a couple games years ago where Marvin would be on fire in the first quarter. But at the first time out, here comes Childress, just like clockwork. Even if Marvin had 8 points in the first 5 minutes, here comes Childress for Marvin. Woody does not know how to ride the hot hand.
If his plan says pull you when you get 2 fouls in the 2nd quarter, then he will pull you when you get 2 fouls no matter what the score is, no matter if you’re shooting lights out. Woody manages very rigid, and is unable to make adjustments.
I have been one who has screamed that JJ plays too many minutes. But if JJ played 40 minutes against the Lakers and we won, I would have been okay with that, because that first win would set the tone for the trip. And there would be opportunities against Portland for him to get a breather.
That being said, JJ is right. Guys are not playing their role, and they’re playing soft. I was very disappointed in Josh last night because all his old havits from last year re-emerged. Dribbling the ball on the fast break, taking shots from right inside the 3 point line, whining too much (I think he is the one JJ was talking about).
Sorry for the long post guys, but its frustrating and embarassing to see us perform like that time and time again on the road against good teams
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:43 am
Marvin looks uncomfortable and out of place; if not clumbsy and uncoordinated. Makes you wonder how he worked in the offseason. Zaza too. Did Eno by Zaza take away some of his focus? Both of those guys were fumbling the ball all over the place like I do when I haven’t picked up a ball in a while. Zaza has done it every game so far. I think they’ll get it together though.
Time to Go
November 2nd, 2009
10:51 am
lol people are killing me with that “I didnt expect us to win, it was the Lakers” crap.
For one thing, thats a HORRIBLE way to go about it anyway.
Secondly, even if you must go about it in that manner, though it was a very very very tough game, you could be understandable about a lost where the hawks played pretty solidly and just got beat by a better team, but that isnt exactly what happened.
It was the same dumb mistakes as the last 2 years by the same characters.
In my opinion, Marvin, Josh, and Woodson have to go for the Hawks to be successful.
Woodson has no idea as a coach, just look at his offensive scheme and how he pulled a hot player IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS HOT STREAK.
and to me…EVERYBODY ON THIS TEAM basically knows their role, except marvin and josh
How many more times must we watch this goof marvin cough of the ball or fall down while he poorly attempts to drive to the hoop???
How many times much we watch Josh pretend to be the superman that he’s not? Trying to beat guys off the dribble, bring the Ball up court, taking long jumpers, etc.
Woodson’s inept coaching and Marvin/Josh’s non ability to play their roles properly is killing the flow of this team!!!!
Face the facts,,,,on a playoff caliber team THAT EXPECTS TO MAKE NOISE….Marvin should just be a guy that comes off the bench who can knock down jumpers for you
and unless Josh Smth is on a team like golden state or phoenix that likes to constantly get up and down the floor, he should just be a high energy guy off the bench in our style of offense.
If all we’re gonna do is ISO and let our players try to beat people off the dribble or shot the jumper…you dont want a player like Josh taking up BIG minutes in a situation like that because he’s not good at either.
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:52 am
You hit the nail on the head O’Brien. Great post.
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
10:56 am
Yes, this is Woodson fault that Zaza committed those turnovers, and the hawks ran with out the ball. Its Woodson fault Horford got dominated in the paint. Its woodson fault he has only one guy producing…. all of this is woodson fault. Its woodson fault zazaz and horford fell apart in the post against a real center. Its woodson fault that we dont have a center and cannot beat the WorldChampions!! Its Woodsons fault. Trade Woodson. That will fix the problem!
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
10:58 am
Seems like if we had Greg Popovich as our coach with this roster, we’d win 60 games. Our poor attempt at an offensive scheme is humiliating. You know Mark Price hates to watch it from the sideline, knowing his advice goes right over Woody’s head. It’s amazing to me that we don’t really even run an offense at all. I watched our Preseason Camp Special on NBATV, and we didn’t practice any offensive scheme at all. We went over some fundamentals, and did fast break drills the rest of the time..
Mink
November 2nd, 2009
11:00 am
Champ, if we had made a simple adjustment to front Bynum, it would’ve saved us 10 points. He is clumsy when trying to gather the ball, and our backside help would’ve caused enough turnovers to prevent the pass. Are we undersized? Yes, but adjustments aren’t made.
joeisajoke
November 2nd, 2009
11:04 am
Maybe Mr. Joe Johnson needs to say something during the game instead of running his mouth after the game. He is always quick to down his teammates to the media. They didn’t down him when was doing anything in the playoffs all of them said he would be fine. This guy isn’t a leader. You don’t think it is interesting that guys don’t play the right way on offense when he doesn’t get the ball. Woodson’s stupid everybody on the perimeter give JJ room to dribble the shot clock offense is not working. Smith is on the perimeter because that is where Woodson is putting him. The offense is stagnant because Johnson doesn’t move the ball. When the offense was moving through Smith and Horford the TEAM got better shots not just Joe. I don’t want to hear but he avg. 5 assists. He has the ball at least 30% of the time on offense. He gets assists because he has to give the ball up not because he wants to.
macaroni tony
November 2nd, 2009
11:04 am
You guys kill me on this blog. You can not blame Woody for this lost. We were in this game at half time, we even took the lead in the third quarter until they gave the dame ball away. Marvin, JS didn’t play up to there potenial, and that was one reason why we lost. This is the third game of the year and now you guy want to destroy the team “amazing.” I guarantee that the next game will be different. All these guys keep crying about JS making bad shoots, he only took four shoots from long range (not saying that it was smart). One of the shoots was an air ball, and that was at the shoot clock buzzer. We’re not going to go 81-1, just we have to gear up for the next game.
O'Brien
November 2nd, 2009
11:07 am
Champ,
Also, in the 3rd quarter, Woody needed to call some plays that gave JJ an open look. The ones with the turnovers in the 3Q were Josh, Al, ZaZa and Crawford. But Woody has no plays, no scheme. All these years, and JJ still cant get a screen or pick and roll that gets him going?
Roxas
November 2nd, 2009
11:15 am
I’ll give you this both Marvin and Josh did mess up, but to get rid of both is retarded.
All Josh needs to do is drive the ball hard to the basket, and if he can’t pass the ball.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
11:26 am
The blame for this loss is on 3 people and I’ll list them in order:
1)Woody the woodpecker- Why in the hell would u take Joe out when he has scored 18 pts on Kobe IN THE 1ST QTR. And he made no adjustments after halftime.
2)Marvin the duck- Once again he was the invisible man. He did nothing. When was the last time he has made his presence known?
3)Josh the Chamelion- Once again Josh tries to morph into a different player. This time he thought he was Magic Johnson or somethin. He’s still shooting jumpers instaed of attacking the basket. HE still tries to bring the ball up the court and fails miserably. Like
I said on the last blog. Josh is too damn dumb.
i_am_soulstar
November 2nd, 2009
11:33 am
Woody pulling JJ after a hot streak was a bone headed move, but its not the reason we lost. We lost because the Hawks lack mental toughness, as they clearly exhibited in the third quarter. Those guys really looked like they had Similac on their breath. Gotta get it together.
darrell starks
November 2nd, 2009
11:36 am
Defense wins championship thats the only shot the hawks have
1.starte jamal at point he is a better defender than bibby he’s quicker and taller.
2.we need height at center starte jason collins at center and move horford 2 power forward and josh 2 small forward.
STARTER JAMAL, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, JASON
BENCH BIBBY, MOE, MARVIN, JOE SMITH, ZAZA.
THIS WILL BE A STRONGER DEFENSE TEAM PLUS YOUR BENCH WILL BE STRONGER.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 2nd, 2009
11:42 am
Bone you can’t over play your player plus we have a deeper bench now.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Brian
November 2nd, 2009
11:42 am
I’m so sick and tired of these mental breakdowns. They’ve been happening for 6 years. This franchise will always be a pile of dung. It always has been.
Willie Coyote
November 2nd, 2009
11:44 am
They still let the lack of calls get to them. Sure it should make you mad when you don’t get the whistles the other team is getting but too often, this team lets it take their focus. They have got to get mentally tougher because they are never going to get their fair share of calls. This is the NBA afterall.
They need to give more effort on the glass. True the Lakers have a big front line; all the more reason to ratchet up the intensity on the glass. We have some more big bodies that can help in these instances; we just need to use them.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
11:51 am
Why is Woody so persistent on keeping the same starting lineup? We’re the only team who keeps the same starting lineup year after year after year.
Take useless Marvin outta the lineup and put in Crawford.
My God
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
STOP PLAYING MARVIN.
HE STINKS
and why are Bibby’s arms bigger than any of our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look like they haven’t eaten since Obama was inaugurated
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
12:01 pm
Mink that doesnt make sense to me because If horford fronts him they lob the ball behind him or sneak some one underneath Bynum who is then a screen for an easy basket. The belief that an undersize and underpowered power forward can cover a true center by moving to the front of him is ridiculus. Never has happenend nor ever will. The best way to defend a center like bynum is put another center on him. I think we should have keep siler and devolped him like Bynam was a three year project.
O’Brien If you make the plays you have you win. The Hawks problems have nothing to do with Woodson who has done a great job. The Hawks problems are a talent issue or rather that lack there of!
O'Brien
November 2nd, 2009
12:03 pm
Listen guys,
I am not giving up on the Hawks. I still think they win 50 games, and compete for the 3rd/4th seed. But I know they have the potential to be better. They have talent, but can’t seem to put it together consistently.
Biggest reasons why we lost (in no particular order):
1) Woody: Pulling JJ when he was hot in the 1st quarter (JJ never got in rhythm after that). Plus Woody has no offensive scheme, or no plays to get JJ an easy shot when we really need a bucket
2) Turnovers 3) Bad defense
4) The play of certain guys (specifically, Marvin and Josh)
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
12:04 pm
The hawks are like a tootsie roll pot a hard front on the out side but soft in the center!
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
12:05 pm
Hawks win fourth place and bow out in the second round, problem?…no center. This script is already written.
MitchC
November 2nd, 2009
12:16 pm
These Hawks might end up being like the Knicks of the early and mid 1990s. Remember how during the Pat Riley years in New York, the Knicks would feast on everyone at MSG in the regular season, and pile up incrddible home records, and then whwn they went on the road, and played the likes of the Bulls, they would fold. Our Hawk team is a little different then the Knicks teams of the 1990s, in that they only had one scary scorer in Patrick Ewing, and a bunch of guys who sometimes couldnt hit a shot.
The Hawks of 2009-2010 will likely turn out to be like those Knick teams, a 50 win team that does well at home, has trouble on the road, and will fade against an elite team in the playoffs like Cleveland. We may be good, but we have yet to prove we are good enough to compete for a championship in the NBA
rusty
November 2nd, 2009
12:20 pm
marvin & zaza was not there at all. bench marvin. jj played great for one quarter,thats all he is capable,it seems. we need to let our point
guards to handle the offense.jj never gives a hard foul,he runs away
when one one is driving hard to the hoop. we need to set up some plays for crawford & not zaza coming to ser screens only to get in his way.this team has no offense & never shows ball movement,get rid of the
woodpecker
Mychelfromatl
November 2nd, 2009
12:22 pm
SMH, some of you dudes are the funniest armcharm qb’s I’ve ever saw in my life. FORREAL!!!
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
12:26 pm
Woodson is an idiot for taking Joe out. I told my friends during the game it was a dumb move. Woodson feels he has to rest Joe now that we have Crawford. PLAY THEM TOGETHER, MORON
Marvin Williams stinks. He is not good enough to start in this league. The reason we are paying him 8 million a year is because no one else offered him a contract (seriously — go read everything. No one wanted this guy. Who the hell wants a 13 ppg SF who is timid for 8 mill? Not me) and the owners are dumb enough to overpay in that case
Joe Johnson NEVER calls himself out. It’s bad he was taken out, and we needed him all 48 minutes, especially since he didn’t play much on Friday vs. Washington, but hold yourself accountable too. You aren’t a superstar. You’re an average 20 ppg player who inspires no one
The Truth
November 2nd, 2009
12:26 pm
Without the bumper-sticker basketball mentality, how did we really lose this game?
The switching defense was abusively used and those times it used, it was poorly executed. When a Hawk player switched to double-team, he often left his opponent wide-open with no secondary help.
The Hawks played way too slow for a 3-forward frontline team. This was made to order for an easy Laker victory (who did not shot that well except Kobe). Besides the many Laker’s dunks and lay-ups, the Hawks still had their chances to win until the collapse in the 3rd quarter with turnovers and miss jump-shots. On the road and against a big frontline team, we must play to our strength with speed, quickness and athleticism to overcome our lack of size. We will rarely win games with this style of play against a team like the Lakers. We’re walking the ball up and they are clogging the middle and baiting us to take jump shots. When the game gets away us, our stabilizing force is JJ taking a stuff jump shot.
As I have previously said and still maintain, the acquisition of Crawford did not address our real problem of lack of frontline size. As JJ pointed out in his interview, we are too-soft upfront with no real physical presence to be respected by bigger opponents. The fanfare of signing the 7 footer Collins is a joke if we aren’t going to use him in situational games. Some of those easy dunks may have been averted perhaps if he was in the game. All this talk about Bibby being the defense liable, what about Zaza; he is even worse with his limited athletic abilities at the center position. Since he signed his new contract and acquired his new restaurant, he has been playing like a bum. If this is going to be the guy to backup an already under sized AL Horford, then we may want consider plan “B”. Joe Smith may enhance the offense, but we need an athletic brute off the bench to match-up against the elite teams. Woody may dig himself a real deep hole (in the lose column) before he realizes that Zaza is not the answer to get us the next level.
Woody substitution timing needs to get worked out. Ok to take JJ out for brief rest in the 1st half, but why exit Bibby in the 1st half of the 3rd quarter? He was the only Hawk scoring and kept us close. When Crawford replaced Bibby with Zaza in the game, the turnovers mounted and the game got away. Woody failed to adjust; stayed with that lineup too long and the Lakers lead swelled to over 20 points. Get used to me saying through-out the season; Deja Vu all over again, Woody failed to adjust. Teague maybe the only Hawk player off the bench with a complimentary game of attacking the basket that adds real value when the jump-shooters starts struggling; Woody needs to trust him more.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
12:33 pm
21 Questions:
1) Why is Marvin starting? HE IS NOT WORTHY TO START
Why is Bibby bigger than all our bigs?
2) Why does Woodson not have any offensive plays? The whole scheme is one-on-one with feeble picks set
3) Why is Horford so in love with his fadeaway jumper which never goes in?
4) Why doesn’t Josh Smith realize he is so effective this year when he DRIVES THE LANE and uses DECISION MAKING SKILLS?
5) Why are there only 3 backup guards/wings? How the hell do you take the starters out and have the remaining guards/wings in?
6) What is the point of getting Othello Hunter over another wing like Stackhouse? It’s obvious we don’t need 2 backup bigs who never play (Othello and RandMo)
7) When is this team gonna start winning on the road? We haven’t won a meaningful road game since almost January 2009
9) Why are JJ and Evans also bigger than our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look almost anorexic
10) Why is Joe Smith’s defense so pedestrian?
11) Why can ZaZa NOT make a layup?
12) How the hell is Marvin Williams making 7.5 million a year for us? 6 points last night…People act like he had a bad game — um no, he does this every night
13) Why is our playcalling so bad?
14) Why is JJ never going to be a leader for this team? He never takes responsibility for everything and says “we” rather than “I”
15) Can the owners please let JJ go after this year and throw all their “money” at Dwyane Wade?
16) Why will Woodson NOT alter the starting lineup? He acts like we only are allowed to have 1 lineup. Freaking start Crawford over Duck. My Goodness — Williams is the worst player in our rotation
17) Why do we have 3 frontcourt starters who are all the exact same size? It would be great if we could get rid of Duck for a Marc Gasol
18) Why are the Hawks so content with having this same core? Can we please make a move to get rid of the waste (Marvin) so we can get another wing
19) Why can’t this team win on the road? It could get ugly
20) Why does this team have no leader?
21) Why is Bibby so damn overweight-looking? He does not realize that at his age he needs to be thinner so he can be more mobile and not so bow-legged-looking
This is not a knee-jerk reaction or just because of this past game. I have had these thoughts for a while. Thank you
Duh!
November 2nd, 2009
12:35 pm
Ladies and gents this why why Jamal Crawford ISN’T a Point guard. Teague should been in the game. I was already mad that he ONLY played eight minutes in the Washington game. Maybe now Woodson will wise up and give Teague his due…..bTW Teague WASN”T in the game when all of this foolishness in the 3rd quarter started. Crawford was the PG….I believe Bibby might have been in there as well, but I’ll check.
The Truth
November 2nd, 2009
12:39 pm
Duh!
The game blow up with Bibby on the bench with Crawford at the point and Zaza at center.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm
The Lakers did not even play well last night. Box out Bynum more and guard Kobe tighter (less layups) and we win despite our 29 turnovers in the 3rd quarter
The Truth
November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm
correction: The game blew up with Bibby on the bench with Crawford at the point and Zaza at center.
Peter
November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm
Marvin Williams = Softest forward in the league…….
The guy is over paid, and like……… a Boy amongst Men !
Dan
November 2nd, 2009
12:41 pm
joeisajoke,
You must have missed it when Joe Johnson said “we” before his comments. Not sure how that means he was throwing his teammates under the bus.
My biggest worry, besides the turnovers, was watching Josh Smith fall back into his love affair with jump shots. That guy says he wants to be an all star and he can be. But, if he is going to always settle for jump shots (which he can’t make) then he will never get there. That guy has all the talent in the world. Seriously lacking in decision making, though.
jerrywest
November 2nd, 2009
12:44 pm
Sekou,
This year Josh decided to adjust to the crowd.
On the road, the crowd cheers when he shoots a jump shot, and boos when he dunks.
At home its the opposite.
jerrywest
November 2nd, 2009
12:47 pm
Woody refused to adjust, as usually.
Ry
November 2nd, 2009
12:48 pm
I agree with four important things that others have posted and I am sure most thought: 1. Joe Johnson – obviously coaching mistake there, pulling him out in the middle of an absolute scorching hot streak. Not defensible. 2. Josh Smith – why is he still shooting from near the 3 point line. Did you not learning anything this off season. 3. Teague – looks like he should definitely play more, but some of it could be that the Lakers were playing less aggressive with such a huge lead. 4. Marvin Williams looks completely lost and is not contributing much to the team.
Coach Woodson seems to mismanaged the team quite a bit during games. Some of the mistakes are so clear to fans, not sure why he can’t see it (or Sund for that matter). I can see why most analyst put the Hawks 4th in the East, that seems about right. They don’t look much better than last year and the Coaching seems to be getting worse.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
12:48 pm
Just FYI: Teague had the highest +/- stat of the night with +8.
Chick Little
November 2nd, 2009
12:54 pm
The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling!!!!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sekou, Has the AJC ever done a study of number of blog posts after a win or loss for the Atl teams? I would assume that the action on the blogs are greatly increased after a loss.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
12:56 pm
And I meant highest +/- stat for the hawks
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
12:59 pm
Chick Little,
It has nothing to do with if we win or lose. These are blatant faults with this team.
Marvin stinks, Joe is not a leader, we call no plays, and our forwards are too small to guard anyone. How is this knee-jerk reacting?
Ken Strickland
November 2nd, 2009
1:01 pm
I’ve noticed there have been numerous comments about HC Mike Woodson’s coaching decisions and his limited OFF. These are the same comments I got criticized for making so many times over the past 2yrs, and it led to me being called a WOODSON HATER.
We’re 2-1 after only 3gms into the season and the BANDWAGON JUMPING FAKE HAWK FANS are already in full swing and advocating the team be dismantled immediately. These clowns seem to think all Sund needs to do to solve all of the teams problems is immediately force opposing GM’s to take whoever we want to get rid of in trade for whatever they have that we want to acquire.
Somehow, within their extremely limited scope of reasoning and/or reality, immediately acquiring new players will somehow magically transform Woodson’s limited OFF system into something that exceeds the Lakers famed triangle OFF. It appears when we play teams with weaker DEF’s, our talent is sufficient to overcome our OFF limitations. However, as we saw last night, when we encounter a team that can apply consistent DEF pressure, our talent isn’t sufficient to overcome our limited OFF system. That’s why it always ends up breaking down and we see us reverting to the ISO’s and individual one on one play.
In defense of Woodson’s decision to remove JJ, which I’m not saying I’m supporting, since his teammates weren’t ready to take up the slack, the outcome would have only been delayed by leaving him in longer, not changed. Woodson needs to stop blaming the players for the consistent failure of his limited OFF system, which the rest of the NBA obviously sees as a joke. He needs to put his stubborn ego in his back pocket and get someone with an actual OFF IQ on his staff immediately, if not sooner. It seems Woodson’s only willing to make adjustments or changes if and when he’s forced to do so out of circumstance, rather than through recognizing and accepting the need for it. I still like some of the adjustments he’s made so far, but they’re abviously not enough.
It’s truely revealing to see some of the same staunch defenders of HC MWoodson, who attacked me for criticizing him not so long ago, going out of their way to attack me for supporting Marvin.
Pd
November 2nd, 2009
1:02 pm
Sekou did you hear how Joe called the team “SOFT” defensively him included in the locker room interview? It was interesting to hear him use those words.
Duke
November 2nd, 2009
1:02 pm
Woodson was trying to give Joe some needed rest, he knew it would take an energized Joe to win this game. It’s not Woody’s fault Joe didn’t come back in and make shots. He doesn’t shoot for them too.
ray
November 2nd, 2009
1:10 pm
You can generally attribute most Hawks’ losses to three people: Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and Mike Woodson. This was again the case last night. Each of them has a low basketball IQ. And Yogi Berra’s famous quote about his sport holds true also in basketball: 90 percent of this game is half mental.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:10 pm
Duke YOU ARE WRONG. VERY WRONG. When u got the hot hand like JJ had u are running on adrenaline. U don’t need to go to the bench. Stop defending that idiot of a head coach. It is Woody’s fault that JJ didn’t come back in and hit shots. Goin to the bench stiffened him up.
cdog
November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm
this is a joke. the hawks are going to be there in the finals in the end.no one in the nba this season is going to go undefeated. this the NBA, not college or high school. the lakers along with shabby officiating won on their home court. when they come to atlanta, the hawks is going to drill them so whats the big deal here about losing to them on their home court. the season is still early.
Mz. Hawkdafied
November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm
People who are saying the Hawks had no chance of winning the game anyway must be tripping. I fully disafreakingree. The Hawks had every opportunity to beat the Lakers. As a matter of FACT everytime the ATL Hawks step foot on the court they have a chance to be the winners. Just think about it, the Lakers didn’t beat the Hawks, they beat themselves with all the sloppiness, bad decisions, mental breakdowns, whatever, you fill in the blank. The Hawks were right there with the Lakers in the first half and the beginning of the second half. Like someone else mentioned the Hawks made a comeback in the 4th quarter with the adjustments the coach made by bringing in other players and mixing up the starters with the reserves. The Lakers coach saw the Hawks making a comeback and brought in the one known as the closer, Black Mumba, Kobe Bryant. The problem was it was too little to late. Even though the game was over Kobe ended up with the last rebound of the game. I don’t remember who he won the rebound over but Kobe was looking like this ball is mine. HE GOT THE LAST FREAKING REBOUND. HE HAD THE BALL IN HIS HANDS AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME. NOW I SEE WHY THEY CALL HIM THE CLOSER.
JJ included himself when describing the problems of the team. He said WE! I clearly heard him say WE! Jeff Teague ended up being that spark that the team needed. Just when the Hawks were finally getting it back together the time had run out.
Next up my fantasy finals Hawks vs Blazers. Johnson vs Roy. Can’t wait. GO HAWKS!
Hawk n the Ham
November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm
Hawk n the Ham’s highly thought out and not freaking out over a loss starting lineup.
1. Jeff Teague
2. Jamal Crawford
3. Joe Johnson
4. Josh Smith
5. Horfy
chemdawg
November 2nd, 2009
1:17 pm
Hawks are talented this year, but in this game Crawford took too many shots, Zaza coughed it up too many times, and Josh Smith clearly didn’t work on his jump shot in the offseason. It’s such an awkward slow release.
Hawk n the Ham
November 2nd, 2009
1:19 pm
Also, have you noticed how both the Magic and Lakers go straight at Horfy to start games? The coaches know Horfy is out of position against the bigs. Too bad the we couldn’t get that starting center in the offseason.
Mz. Hawkdafied
November 2nd, 2009
1:21 pm
Why do some want to rebuild the team? Do you realize that may mean waiting another decade to even see the playoffs again? Count me against rebuilding the team.
Hawk n the Ham
November 2nd, 2009
1:23 pm
cosign Mz. Hawkdafied
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:26 pm
We don’t need to rebuild the team we just need to fire Mike the woodpecker Woodson and trade Marvin Dckbutt Williams.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:26 pm
Duckbutt*
The Truth
November 2nd, 2009
1:27 pm
Marvin is a rhyme shooter who starts off playing too fast. Maybe he is just too overly hyped. He is rushing his shots and rushing his moves. He can’t take what is not there drawing offensive fouls. He needs to better read the defense, move better, playing inside and then out. He is playing the way he has been taught in Woody system; standing around as a pedestrian. Perhaps he needs to start as the utility role first with put-backs lay-ups and dunks before he open-up his outside game. This was the role of Josh Chill; perhaps he would be more effective starting this way. That may get him in sync and a better feel for the game. Marvin struggles were enhanced because the Lakers only gave him the outside jump-shots when he got the ball (like others he was cold as ice). He still has not fully exploited his size advantage at the SF position playing inside. Bringing him off the bench may backfire since he is not the instant offense type. At UNC, he played under a different system compared to Woody ISO system. Also Marvin length makes up for our already small frontline. If he does nothing else, we need him to help with rebounding. But I also agree, at 7.5M, we need more.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
1:30 pm
Wow, Guys it was a tough road loss to the defending champs who were coming off a beating at home. I hate the way we lost, this is the exact kind of loss that I was talking about all summer as a real guage of this teams progress. Sure the Hawks get beat in LA, but do they have to look pathetic doing it? I will count this one in my column of blowout losses even though techinically 8 points is not a blowout. We need to see less of them this year. But, there is WAY TOO MUCH overreaction here. Calm down people.
JeJe- your 21 points may not be “knee jerk” to you, but they clearly reflect an emotional point of view that doesn’t demonstrate much practical basketball knowledge. I would think more of your points if they were “knee jerk”
Sekou? Look JJ was hot, he also got his second foul in the first quarter. That is why he was taken out. Hindsight says he should have stayed in, maybe. How about Joe plays 39 minutes ends up with 34 points and we still lose the game by 4 instead? Then you are saying Woody is wearing down Joe too early in the season.
BTW- There is more of an offensive system going on than iso Joe, you guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about and just keep parroting something you read.
The team played soft, immature and turned the ball over, that’s it. It is not rocket science. I think it is good that Joe was pissed about the game and himself. They all should be.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
1:30 pm
Joe said “we” but that doesn’t mean the brunt of the criticism is on him .I want him to say “I”!!!!!!!!
And I heard rumors Phil Jax may not have started Artest because he had been sucking the first few games. When was the last time Woody EVER changed the starting lineup because people were UNDERACHIEVING?
Oh wait, what else can we expect from a Small Forward who watches Spongebob, goes back to UNC in the summer to get his African American Studies Degree, and works out with Sean May.
Losing to the Lakers is one of the most painful sport events of the year for me. Watching Kobe celebrating with his teammates and everyone on our team looking dejected makes me freaking miserable. We better play with some attitude at Philips when LAL comes to town
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
1:32 pm
This is going to be a long season and there will be games like this along the way. Let’s not forget it was the defending champs we took a beating from not the Thunder. What we need to do is grow a backbone and toughen up. Also it may take a while for the chemistry to develope as far as Crawford and Teague is concerned. Some people here was throwing in the towel during the off-season, some in pre-season, how about we wait until we see some consistency develope first (for better or worse). Lets face it no matter how upset you get this is the team we are running with this year and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, this team needs our support too. In a way i felt the 13 win team got more support judging by some of the messages being dropped.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
1:33 pm
We just need to destroy Portland tomorrow (minus Aldridge), destroy Sacramento, win a tough road game at Charlotte (who stinks), and then win a tough one at home vs.Denver. I think we can do it. Woodson REALLY needs to consider not starting Marvin though. I’m not even trying to hate–Crawford is a THREAT and gets our offensve moving when he’s with Joe and a PG who knows what he’s doing. Marvin just hides in his cuckoon and shoots a jumper or loses the ball.
I’m out for now.
Peace
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
1:34 pm
Yes, Im with ken, This mess is Woodson’s fault. He has to make Hoford a better player. He has to make zaza a better player. He needs to put on a uniform and get in the middle a play for the hawks. I think he should lead by example. Stop whining that we are soo soft in the middle. Woodson suit up and get in there! Show us how its done. So heres my line.
JJ and crawford in the back court
josh smith and Ken Strickland as the forwards
and Mike Woodson as the center.
I got peter pan pachulia and alice in horford land on the bench along
with sugar sweet marshmellow soft sautee in the back court.
Lets shake things up.
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
1:35 pm
In other news who is bushwackers on the sekou bloggers fantasy basketball. You kick $#$ this past week.
mountain_jim
November 2nd, 2009
1:38 pm
Sorry if this has been said, but at halftime I switched over to the Lakers coverage of the DirectTV free preview and they thanked Woodson for taking Joe out, said that changed the game in the first half.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:39 pm
Ya’ll are just not getting it. What offense does Woodson run since u all are soooo smart. What besides the “dribble dribble and dribble some more then shoot” offense has he run. Is it a variation of the triangle offense; or wait is it a type of motion offense. Huh what is it. Even the experts say they have to stop that dribble dribble and shoot sh*t. Man I am convinced that many of u have ever seen AN ACTUAL OFFENSE IN ACTION BEFORE. Becuz if u have u would depise woodson as much as I do.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
1:41 pm
Hawks ‘n Ham’s lineup “not freaking out”
start rookie point guard against other teams starters
have Crawford be the back court defender against other teams best players.
move Joe to a postion where he loses his size advantage, making him less valuable.
That line up is a mid second quarter, start of third. That is NOT a starting line up. Terrible suggestion.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:41 pm
ever=never in my above post.
26 years of ATL Hawks
November 2nd, 2009
1:42 pm
Regardless of the blog points above it all comes down to team defense, rebounding and running a turnover efficient offense. The Lakers killed us on the offensive boards, limited us to one shot most times and didn’t turn the ball. That leads to them winning and us losing. Why must we shoot shots outside our range and not in the flow of the game? It’s true for every player. Drive the bucket, get a good shot and then get back and control the paint and boards. Al & Josh acted like Andrew Bynum was Shaq of old. He’s a skinny punk, not a beast down low. Just imagine how badly we would’ve gotten whipped if Gasol was also in the mix. We played with no heart, no fire and thus got embarrassed. Hopefully they’ll come back with fire in the next game. It was lacking last night.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
1:43 pm
BONE- He runs pick and roll, pick and pop, a motion flex and standard two man game. So what are you confused about? Oh, you mean you don’t know what is going on in the game.
O'Brien
November 2nd, 2009
1:44 pm
Sekou,
It is clear the Lakers were sending Bynum at Horford, and Horford wasnt scoring either. Where is Jason Collins? He is a legit 7 footer, and he plays some D. Is he hurt? Any ideas as to why we havent seen him yet?
Also, I liked how the Lakers game plan was to take advantage of the mismatch with Bynum/Horford, and they went to it time and time again. Thats what I want to see from Woody. When we play a team over which we have a mismatch, we should exploit it over and over again.
And thats one thing I like about Paul Johnson. He makes adjustments at half time, and when one play is working, he will run it over and over agin, until the other team stops them. I agree with Ken that Woody needs an offensive coordinator. Sund (behind closed doors) should have
told Woody to hire an offensive assistant.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:55 pm
Whatever Daniel. U just need to know one thing there is a really good reason why his contract wasn’t extended and ur gonna find out the rest of this season. I hope u don’t cry yourself to sleep when find out ur beloved mike woody woodpecker is fired. I have to commend the ownership for not giving Woodson an extension. I’ve never hoped somebody would be out of a job but that has changed I want woodson outta here asap.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
1:57 pm
Woodson doesn’t have Billy Knight to blame for his shortcomings anymore.
Mz. Hawkdafied
November 2nd, 2009
1:59 pm
According to nba.com, the Lakers turned the ball over 15 times vs the Hawks’ 19 times. 26 years of ATL Hawks if you are gonna disregard people’s comments try to come more correct next time. Yeah and most comments above have stated the Hawks’ defincies as far as rebounds and defense is concerned. Joja Boy please no more Detroit references please. The Hawks are not the Detroit Pistons from back in the day.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
2:00 pm
So now it is “whatever” Bone? I don’t have any emotional investment in Woodson, I just want this team to win. His contract wasn’t extended because Sund was just hired as GM and wanted to assess the team at the end of the year. I am just pointing out that he does run an offense, you may not like his offense but he does run one. You can say that it is Woodson’s responsibility to have this team display more heart, determination and maturity. Those are actually the reason the Hawks lost. But, you assesment is just wrong… sorry, whatever.
Sund
November 2nd, 2009
2:05 pm
I am the offensive co ordinator and Im going to put Woodson in the middle and trade horford for ken Strickland and zaza for sautee. If got to get that middle toughter. Ken, bring the bubba crew with you.
Truth-Serum
November 2nd, 2009
2:06 pm
Daniel Good postsssss
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
2:08 pm
So Daniel do u think Woodson has the Hawks playing to their strenghts or to their weaknesses?
MBZ
November 2nd, 2009
2:09 pm
The proximate cause for last nights loss was the turnovers, and the lack of energy an focus in taking care of the ball and on defense. The ultimate cause however is the inability of our front line to generate offense. Josh Smith simply cannot generate offense in the post when the opposing team has long athletic active defenders. What would this game have looked like if Gasol was playing? I am a committed fan, and don’t think that we should panic, but their are significant structural problems with our offense and a lack of intensity on defense. Josh and Marvin are invisible. There is no way you take out Johnson after his tear. All of these things fall, at least partly, on the coach
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
2:15 pm
And now for your viewing pleasure, I present AIR TEAGUE, the future of whats to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKS0Xii9tQc
Mike is back
November 2nd, 2009
2:21 pm
I watched all but the third quarters of the game. I left briefly at half time when the Lakers were up by one…by the time I got back at the end the third Quarter we were down by 22…I said WTF…he we go again. However, there was a different this time…they did not give up…they made the Lakers starters come back in and finished the game. No, I am not accepting mediocrity…contrary to most belief ATL fans despise losing like everyone one else…but you got to support the guys that wear your colors…it was obvious that the Hawks have better support cast coming off the bench. That is the one caveat I took from the game. Not ready to hit the panic button. This is the first regular season game I have seen, so I will try to remain positive.
The biggest problem I seen besides Josh going back to his bad habits is that Marvin remains passive when he’s on the floor with JJ and Bibby. Marvin needs to be the star of the second unit…he will always defer when he is on the floor with JJ and Bibby. Put Marvin on the Second…make him the first option…then I think we will see more aggression out of Marvin, which leads to my comments about Woody.
I agree with OBrien 10:43 am post. Woody has routinely pulls guys in the past when they were on fire. It’s as though has a substitute pattern that he relies on regardless if the guy has it going. He is still reluctant to play is reserves save for Crawford and Teague. That will not work against the elite teams in the league. You got ten fouls to use between RandMo and Collins on Bynum…I do not remember seeing either guy in the game. Also in the fourth quarter when Teague had it going…I thought that was our best match up going down the stretch of the fourth quarter when the second unit got us back in the game. Clearly, Teague was too quick for Fisher. I would have ridden that match up until Phil made an adjustment.
If the first unit goes into their typical swoon…don’t hesitate get the second unit in the game…try to close the flood gates before the game gets out of reach. That is my only complaint about Woody this early in the season. Start playing the reserves…especially Bigs…so you can develop some confidence in them. Other than that, I think what Woody JJ, and Al said was accurate and on point regarding the debacle that took place in the third quarter. The defense was clearly lacking. I like what I heard from JJ…I think the guys will respond.
I love the kid JTO…he is fearless going to the rack…I would insert him into the game whenever the team starts going into one their lethargic funks. He is special!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
2:24 pm
Mike is back
What did you think of JTO’s dunk on Odom?
GeeMack
November 2nd, 2009
2:38 pm
Bone,
The easiest thing to do is blame the coach. Here are the thing we know; this Hawks team has improved each year under Woody. He has managed to get this team back to respectability without a bonifide superstar (sorry JJ is not a superstar). Also when the Hawks play defense the way Woody teachs they are successful. Look at the Bos series in the playoff, last year on the road in Miami when we needed a win & last year 6 & 0 start. These were al a result of the defense Woody teaches.
Woody is in the same position Doc Rivers was in 2 years ago in Bos. although Al Jefferson & Kendrick Perkins are much better than Al & Josh. You put better players around PP and the losing stops. If you give Woody better talent. The results will be a lot better.
26 years of ATL Hawks
November 2nd, 2009
2:38 pm
Know in advance I support the team and want us to win. Can’t believe a few folks were knit picking my comments about turns. Did you miss the 2nd half meltdown? Sloppy offense and sloppy, lazy defense. We got in that hole quick. Ugly to watch. The only bright spot was at least we fought back. You can’t spot a decent team 20 in the 2nd half and expect to win, much less when they have rings. You would’ve thought Kobe & Lamar lead the league in rebounds watching the end of the game. Can’t anyone box out? We gotta put this behind us. There’s no reason we can’t finish the month 13-4. Let this one burn boys. From the coaches to the last man on the bench. Let it burn deep. We need that fire to get sparked. You can’t wine for respect if you never earn it. We’ve got the pieces, we just gotta make it happen.
BONE
November 2nd, 2009
2:45 pm
GeeMack it wasn’t becuz of Woodson the Hawks record improved. It’s called natural progression. The young players got more experience so of course the records would improve. Woodson has held this team back by not playing to their obvious strenghts which is pushing the tempo. Like Mz. Hawkdafied said the hawks need to stop trying to be like the old pistons and be theirselves. Woodson is part of the problem not the solution.
Mike is back
November 2nd, 2009
2:47 pm
hawks_4_life , awesoooooooooooooooooooooooome bro!!!!!!