Lakers loss still stings in the morning

Mychelfromatl

November 2nd, 2009
10:23 am

First???

Mychelfromatl

November 2nd, 2009
10:26 am

Wow…second time in my life.

Great to hear Joe get into the team after the letdown (not this home-sick stuff again this year, seriously?). All in all I did see things that have me thinking this is a much better Hawks team than last year.

@danweiner

November 2nd, 2009
10:30 am

Wow, you just killed it Sekou. This all falls on the shoulders of Woody. Inexplicable is the absolute best way to describe the decision to pull Joe. Beyond that, this team just doesn’t listen to Woody. Part of the problem in the third quarter is that the team just settles for jump shots time and time again. There is no aggressiveness whatsoever. Woody screams at them to be aggressive and they don’t listen. This team needs an attitude adjustment and it starts with the head man.

Mychelfromatl

November 2nd, 2009
10:31 am

- “The Hawks took yet another shot to their pride and profile on the big stage.”

SMH…SMDH(Shaking My Damn Head).

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:32 am

Yes, you were first. Contribute something useful besides the schoolgirl-giddy “first”. Hate that…

Anyway, I’m glad you said that about Joe’s substitution, b/c I was furious. He was on FIRE and it was sure to be one of his few 40 point games, if not better.. Unbelievable way to completely kill the momentum. We got outcoached BAD last night.

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:33 am

That loss last night has me sour. Sorry to snap Mychel, haha.

Ed G

November 2nd, 2009
10:34 am

Woodson pulling Joe was one of the biggest gaffes he’s made. Pretty much indefensible.

I especially don’t like hearing about players bickering and already questioning coaches.

ILL-logical

November 2nd, 2009
10:35 am

To our good friend in Portugal:
Thank you for your insights, they represent a fresh perspective and an unusual passion for professional basketball in general and the Hawks in particular.
However, as this is a marketplace of ideas and opinions a value may be assigned to the various expressions exhibited here. Your last two comments indicate to me that you had a keen but highly selective eye focused on the Lakers game.
First, you mentioned broken plays-what plays where broken except iso Joe since those were the only ones I observed? Second , you impugned certain motives based upon what-telepathy ? There was enough counterintutive behavior on the part of each and every starter last evening to fill a column but you seemed to be able to discern the thoughts of only one individual and seeminly ascribe the totality of responsiblity for the teams performance to that one individual’s moral shortcomings.
Perhaps your geographic location provides you with extra sensory perception? However if it does how could it not discern the lack of fronting of their man by our center when he was being overpowered by his opposite number or our small forward’s complete lack of concentration regarding his defensive assignment. Your antagonist’s man did not score 41 point!
My point is that when you express your opinions do not expect them to viewed as sacrosanct because of the erudite manner in which they are expressed.

A more careful reading of the facts and circumstances ,offered by the beat writer, offers a more nuanced but blunter viewpoint: coaching and the skillfull application thereof was a major if not determing factor in the contest’s outcome. You might wish to utilize your powers of discernment to determine the current head coach’s thoughts and motivations.

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:35 am

And there was a crazy case of deja vu last night where #5 was hanging around the 3-point line ALL NIGHT LONG just like years past. The first couple of games he was so disciplined and was in on so many rebounds. WHAT IN GOD’S name is he doing out there. Does he really not know he can’t shoot?

A Thinking Fan

November 2nd, 2009
10:38 am

Time for a coaching change; thanks Woody for your contributions these past 4/5 years! So long and have a good life as an assistant somewhere in the NBA of failed HCs.

Ed G

November 2nd, 2009
10:39 am

Anyone got a thesaurus?

tjhook_76544

November 2nd, 2009
10:40 am

I didn’t watch the game until late second quarter but I saw a team that competed on both ends, but does not have enough bullets in its gun to take down big elephants like the Lakers, Magic, Celtics, etc. Marvin Williams did not compete: He stood around during halfcourt sets on the perimeter. Why is a 6′9 guy not at least trying to score in the paint. Bibby and the others were working to create scoring opportunities, but the newly minted Hawks was content to let the team play 4 on 5 offensively.
Defensively, the Hawks are smaller than the Lakers; Andrew Bynum cherry-picked a lot of offensive rebounds and Lamar Odom helped finished the effort. That’s why running and gunning suits us: Our speed and athleticism is supposed to get bigger teams in foul trouble or make them temper their aggression.
We need to trade Marvin Williams. We need to get in this Stephen Jackson trade situation. We need another player who will play with a sense of urgency. A rookie with three games of experience (Teague) has more game savvy than Marvin. Teague played in the 4th quarter- I don’t even think Marvin saw the court in the final 12 minutes.

ES

November 2nd, 2009
10:40 am

I was following J.A. Adande’s live feed on ESPN during the game and he too was perplexed as to why Johnson was taken out. Was it foul trouble? Because even if Johnson had two fouls, you let the dude stay on the floor. He was the reason we were in the game at that point.

Also, Josh Smith still hasn’t learned that his game needs to start inside, not outside. Long 2’s are worse than 3’s! A long 2 pointer is the worst shot for him to take. He refused to drive to the hoops last night and it cost him.

Marvin is sleep-walking out there. He is straight sleep walking.

Love the effort from Crawford; at least he tried to attack the rim. He’s going to help us this year.

dap01

November 2nd, 2009
10:41 am

If a player refuses to play where he is suppose to play (not at the 3 point line), then take him out. What do you have to lose.

Does Woody want Josh out there?

Joja Boy

November 2nd, 2009
10:42 am

I think Woody, needed to experiment with a lineup that matched up better with the Lakers Length. He allowed the Lakeshow to dictate who he put on the floor instead of the other way around. During the fourth, after he had a better feel for who had it, he should have played, Joe Johnson, Joe Smith, Al Horford, Josh Smith, and either the Rook or Bibby. Lamar Odom is comparable to Josh, with much more seasoned approach and had him frustrated. Put Joe Smith on him and allow Artest to battle with Josh. You need Josh’s athleticism out there. Bibby played well agaisnt Fisher, as did Teague. Crawford for some reason had issues with Fisher, and for obvious reasons against Kobe. Overall I like the Hawks fought back, but they have to play tougher on the road… Too many times I saw lay-ups allowed. I beleive in the old addage, If you cant beat’em, Beat’em. Meaning if the score gets out of hand, make them think twice about throwing lobs to Farmer, or Kobe taking it the hole. Make sure he remembers how it feels to earn a trip to the freethrow line. For years I have watched Joe Johnson, when in a one-on-one situation with a player of equal or greater talent allow the lay-up. Set the tone, you never foul out, so that shouldnt be a part of the thought process, and if you do so be it.
Hawks need to take a more blue collar Detroit Bad Boy approach, and develop toughness needed to crack the top 6 teams in all of the NBA. They have the talent, now they need to accept the responsibility!

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
10:43 am

Woody is partly to blame for this loss.

If his plan says to pull you with 3 minutes left in the quarter, then he will pull you with 3 minutes left in the quarter, no matter how hot you are. I remember a couple games years ago where Marvin would be on fire in the first quarter. But at the first time out, here comes Childress, just like clockwork. Even if Marvin had 8 points in the first 5 minutes, here comes Childress for Marvin. Woody does not know how to ride the hot hand.

If his plan says pull you when you get 2 fouls in the 2nd quarter, then he will pull you when you get 2 fouls no matter what the score is, no matter if you’re shooting lights out. Woody manages very rigid, and is unable to make adjustments.

I have been one who has screamed that JJ plays too many minutes. But if JJ played 40 minutes against the Lakers and we won, I would have been okay with that, because that first win would set the tone for the trip. And there would be opportunities against Portland for him to get a breather.

That being said, JJ is right. Guys are not playing their role, and they’re playing soft. I was very disappointed in Josh last night because all his old havits from last year re-emerged. Dribbling the ball on the fast break, taking shots from right inside the 3 point line, whining too much (I think he is the one JJ was talking about).

Sorry for the long post guys, but its frustrating and embarassing to see us perform like that time and time again on the road against good teams

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:43 am

Marvin looks uncomfortable and out of place; if not clumbsy and uncoordinated. Makes you wonder how he worked in the offseason. Zaza too. Did Eno by Zaza take away some of his focus? Both of those guys were fumbling the ball all over the place like I do when I haven’t picked up a ball in a while. Zaza has done it every game so far. I think they’ll get it together though.

Time to Go

November 2nd, 2009
10:51 am

lol people are killing me with that “I didnt expect us to win, it was the Lakers” crap.
For one thing, thats a HORRIBLE way to go about it anyway.
Secondly, even if you must go about it in that manner, though it was a very very very tough game, you could be understandable about a lost where the hawks played pretty solidly and just got beat by a better team, but that isnt exactly what happened.

It was the same dumb mistakes as the last 2 years by the same characters.

In my opinion, Marvin, Josh, and Woodson have to go for the Hawks to be successful.

Woodson has no idea as a coach, just look at his offensive scheme and how he pulled a hot player IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS HOT STREAK.

and to me…EVERYBODY ON THIS TEAM basically knows their role, except marvin and josh

How many more times must we watch this goof marvin cough of the ball or fall down while he poorly attempts to drive to the hoop???

How many times much we watch Josh pretend to be the superman that he’s not? Trying to beat guys off the dribble, bring the Ball up court, taking long jumpers, etc.

Woodson’s inept coaching and Marvin/Josh’s non ability to play their roles properly is killing the flow of this team!!!!

Face the facts,,,,on a playoff caliber team THAT EXPECTS TO MAKE NOISE….Marvin should just be a guy that comes off the bench who can knock down jumpers for you

and unless Josh Smth is on a team like golden state or phoenix that likes to constantly get up and down the floor, he should just be a high energy guy off the bench in our style of offense.

If all we’re gonna do is ISO and let our players try to beat people off the dribble or shot the jumper…you dont want a player like Josh taking up BIG minutes in a situation like that because he’s not good at either.

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:52 am

You hit the nail on the head O’Brien. Great post.

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
10:56 am

Yes, this is Woodson fault that Zaza committed those turnovers, and the hawks ran with out the ball. Its Woodson fault Horford got dominated in the paint. Its woodson fault he has only one guy producing…. all of this is woodson fault. Its woodson fault zazaz and horford fell apart in the post against a real center. Its woodson fault that we dont have a center and cannot beat the WorldChampions!! Its Woodsons fault. Trade Woodson. That will fix the problem!

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
10:58 am

Seems like if we had Greg Popovich as our coach with this roster, we’d win 60 games. Our poor attempt at an offensive scheme is humiliating. You know Mark Price hates to watch it from the sideline, knowing his advice goes right over Woody’s head. It’s amazing to me that we don’t really even run an offense at all. I watched our Preseason Camp Special on NBATV, and we didn’t practice any offensive scheme at all. We went over some fundamentals, and did fast break drills the rest of the time..

Mink

November 2nd, 2009
11:00 am

Champ, if we had made a simple adjustment to front Bynum, it would’ve saved us 10 points. He is clumsy when trying to gather the ball, and our backside help would’ve caused enough turnovers to prevent the pass. Are we undersized? Yes, but adjustments aren’t made.

joeisajoke

November 2nd, 2009
11:04 am

Maybe Mr. Joe Johnson needs to say something during the game instead of running his mouth after the game. He is always quick to down his teammates to the media. They didn’t down him when was doing anything in the playoffs all of them said he would be fine. This guy isn’t a leader. You don’t think it is interesting that guys don’t play the right way on offense when he doesn’t get the ball. Woodson’s stupid everybody on the perimeter give JJ room to dribble the shot clock offense is not working. Smith is on the perimeter because that is where Woodson is putting him. The offense is stagnant because Johnson doesn’t move the ball. When the offense was moving through Smith and Horford the TEAM got better shots not just Joe. I don’t want to hear but he avg. 5 assists. He has the ball at least 30% of the time on offense. He gets assists because he has to give the ball up not because he wants to.

macaroni tony

November 2nd, 2009
11:04 am

You guys kill me on this blog. You can not blame Woody for this lost. We were in this game at half time, we even took the lead in the third quarter until they gave the dame ball away. Marvin, JS didn’t play up to there potenial, and that was one reason why we lost. This is the third game of the year and now you guy want to destroy the team “amazing.” I guarantee that the next game will be different. All these guys keep crying about JS making bad shoots, he only took four shoots from long range (not saying that it was smart). One of the shoots was an air ball, and that was at the shoot clock buzzer. We’re not going to go 81-1, just we have to gear up for the next game.

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
11:07 am

Champ,

Also, in the 3rd quarter, Woody needed to call some plays that gave JJ an open look. The ones with the turnovers in the 3Q were Josh, Al, ZaZa and Crawford. But Woody has no plays, no scheme. All these years, and JJ still cant get a screen or pick and roll that gets him going?

Roxas

November 2nd, 2009
11:15 am

I’ll give you this both Marvin and Josh did mess up, but to get rid of both is retarded.

All Josh needs to do is drive the ball hard to the basket, and if he can’t pass the ball.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
11:26 am

The blame for this loss is on 3 people and I’ll list them in order:

1)Woody the woodpecker- Why in the hell would u take Joe out when he has scored 18 pts on Kobe IN THE 1ST QTR. And he made no adjustments after halftime.

2)Marvin the duck- Once again he was the invisible man. He did nothing. When was the last time he has made his presence known?

3)Josh the Chamelion- Once again Josh tries to morph into a different player. This time he thought he was Magic Johnson or somethin. He’s still shooting jumpers instaed of attacking the basket. HE still tries to bring the ball up the court and fails miserably. Like
I said on the last blog. Josh is too damn dumb.

i_am_soulstar

November 2nd, 2009
11:33 am

Woody pulling JJ after a hot streak was a bone headed move, but its not the reason we lost. We lost because the Hawks lack mental toughness, as they clearly exhibited in the third quarter. Those guys really looked like they had Similac on their breath. Gotta get it together.

darrell starks

November 2nd, 2009
11:36 am

Defense wins championship thats the only shot the hawks have

1.starte jamal at point he is a better defender than bibby he’s quicker and taller.
2.we need height at center starte jason collins at center and move horford 2 power forward and josh 2 small forward.

STARTER JAMAL, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, JASON
BENCH BIBBY, MOE, MARVIN, JOE SMITH, ZAZA.
THIS WILL BE A STRONGER DEFENSE TEAM PLUS YOUR BENCH WILL BE STRONGER.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

November 2nd, 2009
11:42 am

Bone you can’t over play your player plus we have a deeper bench now.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

Brian

November 2nd, 2009
11:42 am

I’m so sick and tired of these mental breakdowns. They’ve been happening for 6 years. This franchise will always be a pile of dung. It always has been.

Willie Coyote

November 2nd, 2009
11:44 am

They still let the lack of calls get to them. Sure it should make you mad when you don’t get the whistles the other team is getting but too often, this team lets it take their focus. They have got to get mentally tougher because they are never going to get their fair share of calls. This is the NBA afterall.

They need to give more effort on the glass. True the Lakers have a big front line; all the more reason to ratchet up the intensity on the glass. We have some more big bodies that can help in these instances; we just need to use them.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
11:51 am

Why is Woody so persistent on keeping the same starting lineup? We’re the only team who keeps the same starting lineup year after year after year.

Take useless Marvin outta the lineup and put in Crawford.

My God

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
11:52 am

STOP PLAYING MARVIN.
HE STINKS

and why are Bibby’s arms bigger than any of our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look like they haven’t eaten since Obama was inaugurated

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
12:01 pm

Mink that doesnt make sense to me because If horford fronts him they lob the ball behind him or sneak some one underneath Bynum who is then a screen for an easy basket. The belief that an undersize and underpowered power forward can cover a true center by moving to the front of him is ridiculus. Never has happenend nor ever will. The best way to defend a center like bynum is put another center on him. I think we should have keep siler and devolped him like Bynam was a three year project.

O’Brien If you make the plays you have you win. The Hawks problems have nothing to do with Woodson who has done a great job. The Hawks problems are a talent issue or rather that lack there of!

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
12:03 pm

Listen guys,

I am not giving up on the Hawks. I still think they win 50 games, and compete for the 3rd/4th seed. But I know they have the potential to be better. They have talent, but can’t seem to put it together consistently.

Biggest reasons why we lost (in no particular order):

1) Woody: Pulling JJ when he was hot in the 1st quarter (JJ never got in rhythm after that). Plus Woody has no offensive scheme, or no plays to get JJ an easy shot when we really need a bucket

2) Turnovers 3) Bad defense

4) The play of certain guys (specifically, Marvin and Josh)

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
12:04 pm

The hawks are like a tootsie roll pot a hard front on the out side but soft in the center!

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
12:05 pm

Hawks win fourth place and bow out in the second round, problem?…no center. This script is already written.

MitchC

November 2nd, 2009
12:16 pm

These Hawks might end up being like the Knicks of the early and mid 1990s. Remember how during the Pat Riley years in New York, the Knicks would feast on everyone at MSG in the regular season, and pile up incrddible home records, and then whwn they went on the road, and played the likes of the Bulls, they would fold. Our Hawk team is a little different then the Knicks teams of the 1990s, in that they only had one scary scorer in Patrick Ewing, and a bunch of guys who sometimes couldnt hit a shot.

The Hawks of 2009-2010 will likely turn out to be like those Knick teams, a 50 win team that does well at home, has trouble on the road, and will fade against an elite team in the playoffs like Cleveland. We may be good, but we have yet to prove we are good enough to compete for a championship in the NBA

rusty

November 2nd, 2009
12:20 pm

marvin & zaza was not there at all. bench marvin. jj played great for one quarter,thats all he is capable,it seems. we need to let our point
guards to handle the offense.jj never gives a hard foul,he runs away
when one one is driving hard to the hoop. we need to set up some plays for crawford & not zaza coming to ser screens only to get in his way.this team has no offense & never shows ball movement,get rid of the
woodpecker

Mychelfromatl

November 2nd, 2009
12:22 pm

SMH, some of you dudes are the funniest armcharm qb’s I’ve ever saw in my life. FORREAL!!!

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
12:26 pm

Woodson is an idiot for taking Joe out. I told my friends during the game it was a dumb move. Woodson feels he has to rest Joe now that we have Crawford. PLAY THEM TOGETHER, MORON

Marvin Williams stinks. He is not good enough to start in this league. The reason we are paying him 8 million a year is because no one else offered him a contract (seriously — go read everything. No one wanted this guy. Who the hell wants a 13 ppg SF who is timid for 8 mill? Not me) and the owners are dumb enough to overpay in that case

Joe Johnson NEVER calls himself out. It’s bad he was taken out, and we needed him all 48 minutes, especially since he didn’t play much on Friday vs. Washington, but hold yourself accountable too. You aren’t a superstar. You’re an average 20 ppg player who inspires no one

The Truth

November 2nd, 2009
12:26 pm

Without the bumper-sticker basketball mentality, how did we really lose this game?

The switching defense was abusively used and those times it used, it was poorly executed. When a Hawk player switched to double-team, he often left his opponent wide-open with no secondary help.

The Hawks played way too slow for a 3-forward frontline team. This was made to order for an easy Laker victory (who did not shot that well except Kobe). Besides the many Laker’s dunks and lay-ups, the Hawks still had their chances to win until the collapse in the 3rd quarter with turnovers and miss jump-shots. On the road and against a big frontline team, we must play to our strength with speed, quickness and athleticism to overcome our lack of size. We will rarely win games with this style of play against a team like the Lakers. We’re walking the ball up and they are clogging the middle and baiting us to take jump shots. When the game gets away us, our stabilizing force is JJ taking a stuff jump shot.

As I have previously said and still maintain, the acquisition of Crawford did not address our real problem of lack of frontline size. As JJ pointed out in his interview, we are too-soft upfront with no real physical presence to be respected by bigger opponents. The fanfare of signing the 7 footer Collins is a joke if we aren’t going to use him in situational games. Some of those easy dunks may have been averted perhaps if he was in the game. All this talk about Bibby being the defense liable, what about Zaza; he is even worse with his limited athletic abilities at the center position. Since he signed his new contract and acquired his new restaurant, he has been playing like a bum. If this is going to be the guy to backup an already under sized AL Horford, then we may want consider plan “B”. Joe Smith may enhance the offense, but we need an athletic brute off the bench to match-up against the elite teams. Woody may dig himself a real deep hole (in the lose column) before he realizes that Zaza is not the answer to get us the next level.

Woody substitution timing needs to get worked out. Ok to take JJ out for brief rest in the 1st half, but why exit Bibby in the 1st half of the 3rd quarter? He was the only Hawk scoring and kept us close. When Crawford replaced Bibby with Zaza in the game, the turnovers mounted and the game got away. Woody failed to adjust; stayed with that lineup too long and the Lakers lead swelled to over 20 points. Get used to me saying through-out the season; Deja Vu all over again, Woody failed to adjust. Teague maybe the only Hawk player off the bench with a complimentary game of attacking the basket that adds real value when the jump-shooters starts struggling; Woody needs to trust him more.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
12:33 pm

21 Questions:

1) Why is Marvin starting? HE IS NOT WORTHY TO START
2) Why does Woodson not have any offensive plays? The whole scheme is one-on-one with feeble picks set
3) Why is Horford so in love with his fadeaway jumper which never goes in?
4) Why doesn’t Josh Smith realize he is so effective this year when he DRIVES THE LANE and uses DECISION MAKING SKILLS?
5) Why are there only 3 backup guards/wings? How the hell do you take the starters out and have the remaining guards/wings in?
6) What is the point of getting Othello Hunter over another wing like Stackhouse? It’s obvious we don’t need 2 backup bigs who never play (Othello and RandMo)
7) When is this team gonna start winning on the road? We haven’t won a meaningful road game since almost January 2009
Why is Bibby bigger than all our bigs?
9) Why are JJ and Evans also bigger than our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look almost anorexic
10) Why is Joe Smith’s defense so pedestrian?
11) Why can ZaZa NOT make a layup?
12) How the hell is Marvin Williams making 7.5 million a year for us? 6 points last night…People act like he had a bad game — um no, he does this every night
13) Why is our playcalling so bad?
14) Why is JJ never going to be a leader for this team? He never takes responsibility for everything and says “we” rather than “I”
15) Can the owners please let JJ go after this year and throw all their “money” at Dwyane Wade?
16) Why will Woodson NOT alter the starting lineup? He acts like we only are allowed to have 1 lineup. Freaking start Crawford over Duck. My Goodness — Williams is the worst player in our rotation
17) Why do we have 3 frontcourt starters who are all the exact same size? It would be great if we could get rid of Duck for a Marc Gasol
18) Why are the Hawks so content with having this same core? Can we please make a move to get rid of the waste (Marvin) so we can get another wing
19) Why can’t this team win on the road? It could get ugly
20) Why does this team have no leader?
21) Why is Bibby so damn overweight-looking? He does not realize that at his age he needs to be thinner so he can be more mobile and not so bow-legged-looking

This is not a knee-jerk reaction or just because of this past game. I have had these thoughts for a while. Thank you

Duh!

November 2nd, 2009
12:35 pm

Ladies and gents this why why Jamal Crawford ISN’T a Point guard. Teague should been in the game. I was already mad that he ONLY played eight minutes in the Washington game. Maybe now Woodson will wise up and give Teague his due…..bTW Teague WASN”T in the game when all of this foolishness in the 3rd quarter started. Crawford was the PG….I believe Bibby might have been in there as well, but I’ll check.

The Truth

November 2nd, 2009
12:39 pm

Duh!

The game blow up with Bibby on the bench with Crawford at the point and Zaza at center.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm

The Lakers did not even play well last night. Box out Bynum more and guard Kobe tighter (less layups) and we win despite our 29 turnovers in the 3rd quarter

The Truth

November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm

correction: The game blew up with Bibby on the bench with Crawford at the point and Zaza at center.

Peter

November 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm

Marvin Williams = Softest forward in the league…….

The guy is over paid, and like……… a Boy amongst Men !

Dan

November 2nd, 2009
12:41 pm

joeisajoke,

You must have missed it when Joe Johnson said “we” before his comments. Not sure how that means he was throwing his teammates under the bus.

My biggest worry, besides the turnovers, was watching Josh Smith fall back into his love affair with jump shots. That guy says he wants to be an all star and he can be. But, if he is going to always settle for jump shots (which he can’t make) then he will never get there. That guy has all the talent in the world. Seriously lacking in decision making, though.

jerrywest

November 2nd, 2009
12:44 pm

Sekou,

This year Josh decided to adjust to the crowd.

On the road, the crowd cheers when he shoots a jump shot, and boos when he dunks.

At home its the opposite.

jerrywest

November 2nd, 2009
12:47 pm

Woody refused to adjust, as usually.

Ry

November 2nd, 2009
12:48 pm

I agree with four important things that others have posted and I am sure most thought: 1. Joe Johnson – obviously coaching mistake there, pulling him out in the middle of an absolute scorching hot streak. Not defensible. 2. Josh Smith – why is he still shooting from near the 3 point line. Did you not learning anything this off season. 3. Teague – looks like he should definitely play more, but some of it could be that the Lakers were playing less aggressive with such a huge lead. 4. Marvin Williams looks completely lost and is not contributing much to the team.
Coach Woodson seems to mismanaged the team quite a bit during games. Some of the mistakes are so clear to fans, not sure why he can’t see it (or Sund for that matter). I can see why most analyst put the Hawks 4th in the East, that seems about right. They don’t look much better than last year and the Coaching seems to be getting worse.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
12:48 pm

Just FYI: Teague had the highest +/- stat of the night with +8.

Chick Little

November 2nd, 2009
12:54 pm

The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling!!!!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sekou, Has the AJC ever done a study of number of blog posts after a win or loss for the Atl teams? I would assume that the action on the blogs are greatly increased after a loss.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
12:56 pm

And I meant highest +/- stat for the hawks

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
12:59 pm

Chick Little,

It has nothing to do with if we win or lose. These are blatant faults with this team.

Marvin stinks, Joe is not a leader, we call no plays, and our forwards are too small to guard anyone. How is this knee-jerk reacting?

Ken Strickland

November 2nd, 2009
1:01 pm

I’ve noticed there have been numerous comments about HC Mike Woodson’s coaching decisions and his limited OFF. These are the same comments I got criticized for making so many times over the past 2yrs, and it led to me being called a WOODSON HATER.

We’re 2-1 after only 3gms into the season and the BANDWAGON JUMPING FAKE HAWK FANS are already in full swing and advocating the team be dismantled immediately. These clowns seem to think all Sund needs to do to solve all of the teams problems is immediately force opposing GM’s to take whoever we want to get rid of in trade for whatever they have that we want to acquire.

Somehow, within their extremely limited scope of reasoning and/or reality, immediately acquiring new players will somehow magically transform Woodson’s limited OFF system into something that exceeds the Lakers famed triangle OFF. It appears when we play teams with weaker DEF’s, our talent is sufficient to overcome our OFF limitations. However, as we saw last night, when we encounter a team that can apply consistent DEF pressure, our talent isn’t sufficient to overcome our limited OFF system. That’s why it always ends up breaking down and we see us reverting to the ISO’s and individual one on one play.

In defense of Woodson’s decision to remove JJ, which I’m not saying I’m supporting, since his teammates weren’t ready to take up the slack, the outcome would have only been delayed by leaving him in longer, not changed. Woodson needs to stop blaming the players for the consistent failure of his limited OFF system, which the rest of the NBA obviously sees as a joke. He needs to put his stubborn ego in his back pocket and get someone with an actual OFF IQ on his staff immediately, if not sooner. It seems Woodson’s only willing to make adjustments or changes if and when he’s forced to do so out of circumstance, rather than through recognizing and accepting the need for it. I still like some of the adjustments he’s made so far, but they’re abviously not enough.

It’s truely revealing to see some of the same staunch defenders of HC MWoodson, who attacked me for criticizing him not so long ago, going out of their way to attack me for supporting Marvin.

Pd

November 2nd, 2009
1:02 pm

Sekou did you hear how Joe called the team “SOFT” defensively him included in the locker room interview? It was interesting to hear him use those words.

Duke

November 2nd, 2009
1:02 pm

Woodson was trying to give Joe some needed rest, he knew it would take an energized Joe to win this game. It’s not Woody’s fault Joe didn’t come back in and make shots. He doesn’t shoot for them too.

ray

November 2nd, 2009
1:10 pm

You can generally attribute most Hawks’ losses to three people: Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and Mike Woodson. This was again the case last night. Each of them has a low basketball IQ. And Yogi Berra’s famous quote about his sport holds true also in basketball: 90 percent of this game is half mental.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:10 pm

Duke YOU ARE WRONG. VERY WRONG. When u got the hot hand like JJ had u are running on adrenaline. U don’t need to go to the bench. Stop defending that idiot of a head coach. It is Woody’s fault that JJ didn’t come back in and hit shots. Goin to the bench stiffened him up.

cdog

November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm

this is a joke. the hawks are going to be there in the finals in the end.no one in the nba this season is going to go undefeated. this the NBA, not college or high school. the lakers along with shabby officiating won on their home court. when they come to atlanta, the hawks is going to drill them so whats the big deal here about losing to them on their home court. the season is still early.

Mz. Hawkdafied

November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm

People who are saying the Hawks had no chance of winning the game anyway must be tripping. I fully disafreakingree. The Hawks had every opportunity to beat the Lakers. As a matter of FACT everytime the ATL Hawks step foot on the court they have a chance to be the winners. Just think about it, the Lakers didn’t beat the Hawks, they beat themselves with all the sloppiness, bad decisions, mental breakdowns, whatever, you fill in the blank. The Hawks were right there with the Lakers in the first half and the beginning of the second half. Like someone else mentioned the Hawks made a comeback in the 4th quarter with the adjustments the coach made by bringing in other players and mixing up the starters with the reserves. The Lakers coach saw the Hawks making a comeback and brought in the one known as the closer, Black Mumba, Kobe Bryant. The problem was it was too little to late. Even though the game was over Kobe ended up with the last rebound of the game. I don’t remember who he won the rebound over but Kobe was looking like this ball is mine. HE GOT THE LAST FREAKING REBOUND. HE HAD THE BALL IN HIS HANDS AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME. NOW I SEE WHY THEY CALL HIM THE CLOSER.

JJ included himself when describing the problems of the team. He said WE! I clearly heard him say WE! Jeff Teague ended up being that spark that the team needed. Just when the Hawks were finally getting it back together the time had run out.

Next up my fantasy finals Hawks vs Blazers. Johnson vs Roy. Can’t wait. GO HAWKS!

Hawk n the Ham

November 2nd, 2009
1:15 pm

Hawk n the Ham’s highly thought out and not freaking out over a loss starting lineup.
1. Jeff Teague
2. Jamal Crawford
3. Joe Johnson
4. Josh Smith
5. Horfy

chemdawg

November 2nd, 2009
1:17 pm

Hawks are talented this year, but in this game Crawford took too many shots, Zaza coughed it up too many times, and Josh Smith clearly didn’t work on his jump shot in the offseason. It’s such an awkward slow release.

Hawk n the Ham

November 2nd, 2009
1:19 pm

Also, have you noticed how both the Magic and Lakers go straight at Horfy to start games? The coaches know Horfy is out of position against the bigs. Too bad the we couldn’t get that starting center in the offseason.

Mz. Hawkdafied

November 2nd, 2009
1:21 pm

Why do some want to rebuild the team? Do you realize that may mean waiting another decade to even see the playoffs again? Count me against rebuilding the team.

Hawk n the Ham

November 2nd, 2009
1:23 pm

cosign Mz. Hawkdafied

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:26 pm

We don’t need to rebuild the team we just need to fire Mike the woodpecker Woodson and trade Marvin Dckbutt Williams.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:26 pm

Duckbutt*

The Truth

November 2nd, 2009
1:27 pm

Marvin is a rhyme shooter who starts off playing too fast. Maybe he is just too overly hyped. He is rushing his shots and rushing his moves. He can’t take what is not there drawing offensive fouls. He needs to better read the defense, move better, playing inside and then out. He is playing the way he has been taught in Woody system; standing around as a pedestrian. Perhaps he needs to start as the utility role first with put-backs lay-ups and dunks before he open-up his outside game. This was the role of Josh Chill; perhaps he would be more effective starting this way. That may get him in sync and a better feel for the game. Marvin struggles were enhanced because the Lakers only gave him the outside jump-shots when he got the ball (like others he was cold as ice). He still has not fully exploited his size advantage at the SF position playing inside. Bringing him off the bench may backfire since he is not the instant offense type. At UNC, he played under a different system compared to Woody ISO system. Also Marvin length makes up for our already small frontline. If he does nothing else, we need him to help with rebounding. But I also agree, at 7.5M, we need more.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
1:30 pm

Wow, Guys it was a tough road loss to the defending champs who were coming off a beating at home. I hate the way we lost, this is the exact kind of loss that I was talking about all summer as a real guage of this teams progress. Sure the Hawks get beat in LA, but do they have to look pathetic doing it? I will count this one in my column of blowout losses even though techinically 8 points is not a blowout. We need to see less of them this year. But, there is WAY TOO MUCH overreaction here. Calm down people.
JeJe- your 21 points may not be “knee jerk” to you, but they clearly reflect an emotional point of view that doesn’t demonstrate much practical basketball knowledge. I would think more of your points if they were “knee jerk”

Sekou? Look JJ was hot, he also got his second foul in the first quarter. That is why he was taken out. Hindsight says he should have stayed in, maybe. How about Joe plays 39 minutes ends up with 34 points and we still lose the game by 4 instead? Then you are saying Woody is wearing down Joe too early in the season.

BTW- There is more of an offensive system going on than iso Joe, you guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about and just keep parroting something you read.

The team played soft, immature and turned the ball over, that’s it. It is not rocket science. I think it is good that Joe was pissed about the game and himself. They all should be.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
1:30 pm

Joe said “we” but that doesn’t mean the brunt of the criticism is on him .I want him to say “I”!!!!!!!!

And I heard rumors Phil Jax may not have started Artest because he had been sucking the first few games. When was the last time Woody EVER changed the starting lineup because people were UNDERACHIEVING?

Oh wait, what else can we expect from a Small Forward who watches Spongebob, goes back to UNC in the summer to get his African American Studies Degree, and works out with Sean May.

Losing to the Lakers is one of the most painful sport events of the year for me. Watching Kobe celebrating with his teammates and everyone on our team looking dejected makes me freaking miserable. We better play with some attitude at Philips when LAL comes to town

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
1:32 pm

This is going to be a long season and there will be games like this along the way. Let’s not forget it was the defending champs we took a beating from not the Thunder. What we need to do is grow a backbone and toughen up. Also it may take a while for the chemistry to develope as far as Crawford and Teague is concerned. Some people here was throwing in the towel during the off-season, some in pre-season, how about we wait until we see some consistency develope first (for better or worse). Lets face it no matter how upset you get this is the team we are running with this year and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, this team needs our support too. In a way i felt the 13 win team got more support judging by some of the messages being dropped.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
1:33 pm

We just need to destroy Portland tomorrow (minus Aldridge), destroy Sacramento, win a tough road game at Charlotte (who stinks), and then win a tough one at home vs.Denver. I think we can do it. Woodson REALLY needs to consider not starting Marvin though. I’m not even trying to hate–Crawford is a THREAT and gets our offensve moving when he’s with Joe and a PG who knows what he’s doing. Marvin just hides in his cuckoon and shoots a jumper or loses the ball.

I’m out for now.

Peace

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
1:34 pm

Yes, Im with ken, This mess is Woodson’s fault. He has to make Hoford a better player. He has to make zaza a better player. He needs to put on a uniform and get in the middle a play for the hawks. I think he should lead by example. Stop whining that we are soo soft in the middle. Woodson suit up and get in there! Show us how its done. So heres my line.

JJ and crawford in the back court
josh smith and Ken Strickland as the forwards
and Mike Woodson as the center.

I got peter pan pachulia and alice in horford land on the bench along
with sugar sweet marshmellow soft sautee in the back court.

Lets shake things up.

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
1:35 pm

In other news who is bushwackers on the sekou bloggers fantasy basketball. You kick $#$ this past week.

mountain_jim

November 2nd, 2009
1:38 pm

Sorry if this has been said, but at halftime I switched over to the Lakers coverage of the DirectTV free preview and they thanked Woodson for taking Joe out, said that changed the game in the first half.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:39 pm

Ya’ll are just not getting it. What offense does Woodson run since u all are soooo smart. What besides the “dribble dribble and dribble some more then shoot” offense has he run. Is it a variation of the triangle offense; or wait is it a type of motion offense. Huh what is it. Even the experts say they have to stop that dribble dribble and shoot sh*t. Man I am convinced that many of u have ever seen AN ACTUAL OFFENSE IN ACTION BEFORE. Becuz if u have u would depise woodson as much as I do.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
1:41 pm

Hawks ‘n Ham’s lineup “not freaking out”
start rookie point guard against other teams starters
have Crawford be the back court defender against other teams best players.
move Joe to a postion where he loses his size advantage, making him less valuable.

That line up is a mid second quarter, start of third. That is NOT a starting line up. Terrible suggestion.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:41 pm

ever=never in my above post.

26 years of ATL Hawks

November 2nd, 2009
1:42 pm

Regardless of the blog points above it all comes down to team defense, rebounding and running a turnover efficient offense. The Lakers killed us on the offensive boards, limited us to one shot most times and didn’t turn the ball. That leads to them winning and us losing. Why must we shoot shots outside our range and not in the flow of the game? It’s true for every player. Drive the bucket, get a good shot and then get back and control the paint and boards. Al & Josh acted like Andrew Bynum was Shaq of old. He’s a skinny punk, not a beast down low. Just imagine how badly we would’ve gotten whipped if Gasol was also in the mix. We played with no heart, no fire and thus got embarrassed. Hopefully they’ll come back with fire in the next game. It was lacking last night.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
1:43 pm

BONE- He runs pick and roll, pick and pop, a motion flex and standard two man game. So what are you confused about? Oh, you mean you don’t know what is going on in the game.

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
1:44 pm

Sekou,

It is clear the Lakers were sending Bynum at Horford, and Horford wasnt scoring either. Where is Jason Collins? He is a legit 7 footer, and he plays some D. Is he hurt? Any ideas as to why we havent seen him yet?

Also, I liked how the Lakers game plan was to take advantage of the mismatch with Bynum/Horford, and they went to it time and time again. Thats what I want to see from Woody. When we play a team over which we have a mismatch, we should exploit it over and over again.

And thats one thing I like about Paul Johnson. He makes adjustments at half time, and when one play is working, he will run it over and over agin, until the other team stops them. I agree with Ken that Woody needs an offensive coordinator. Sund (behind closed doors) should have
told Woody to hire an offensive assistant.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:55 pm

Whatever Daniel. U just need to know one thing there is a really good reason why his contract wasn’t extended and ur gonna find out the rest of this season. I hope u don’t cry yourself to sleep when find out ur beloved mike woody woodpecker is fired. I have to commend the ownership for not giving Woodson an extension. I’ve never hoped somebody would be out of a job but that has changed I want woodson outta here asap.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
1:57 pm

Woodson doesn’t have Billy Knight to blame for his shortcomings anymore.

Mz. Hawkdafied

November 2nd, 2009
1:59 pm

According to nba.com, the Lakers turned the ball over 15 times vs the Hawks’ 19 times. 26 years of ATL Hawks if you are gonna disregard people’s comments try to come more correct next time. Yeah and most comments above have stated the Hawks’ defincies as far as rebounds and defense is concerned. Joja Boy please no more Detroit references please. The Hawks are not the Detroit Pistons from back in the day.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
2:00 pm

So now it is “whatever” Bone? I don’t have any emotional investment in Woodson, I just want this team to win. His contract wasn’t extended because Sund was just hired as GM and wanted to assess the team at the end of the year. I am just pointing out that he does run an offense, you may not like his offense but he does run one. You can say that it is Woodson’s responsibility to have this team display more heart, determination and maturity. Those are actually the reason the Hawks lost. But, you assesment is just wrong… sorry, whatever.

Sund

November 2nd, 2009
2:05 pm

I am the offensive co ordinator and Im going to put Woodson in the middle and trade horford for ken Strickland and zaza for sautee. If got to get that middle toughter. Ken, bring the bubba crew with you.

Truth-Serum

November 2nd, 2009
2:06 pm

Daniel Good postsssss

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
2:08 pm

So Daniel do u think Woodson has the Hawks playing to their strenghts or to their weaknesses?

MBZ

November 2nd, 2009
2:09 pm

The proximate cause for last nights loss was the turnovers, and the lack of energy an focus in taking care of the ball and on defense. The ultimate cause however is the inability of our front line to generate offense. Josh Smith simply cannot generate offense in the post when the opposing team has long athletic active defenders. What would this game have looked like if Gasol was playing? I am a committed fan, and don’t think that we should panic, but their are significant structural problems with our offense and a lack of intensity on defense. Josh and Marvin are invisible. There is no way you take out Johnson after his tear. All of these things fall, at least partly, on the coach

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
2:15 pm

And now for your viewing pleasure, I present AIR TEAGUE, the future of whats to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKS0Xii9tQc

Mike is back

November 2nd, 2009
2:21 pm

I watched all but the third quarters of the game. I left briefly at half time when the Lakers were up by one…by the time I got back at the end the third Quarter we were down by 22…I said WTF…he we go again. However, there was a different this time…they did not give up…they made the Lakers starters come back in and finished the game. No, I am not accepting mediocrity…contrary to most belief ATL fans despise losing like everyone one else…but you got to support the guys that wear your colors…it was obvious that the Hawks have better support cast coming off the bench. That is the one caveat I took from the game. Not ready to hit the panic button. This is the first regular season game I have seen, so I will try to remain positive.

The biggest problem I seen besides Josh going back to his bad habits is that Marvin remains passive when he’s on the floor with JJ and Bibby. Marvin needs to be the star of the second unit…he will always defer when he is on the floor with JJ and Bibby. Put Marvin on the Second…make him the first option…then I think we will see more aggression out of Marvin, which leads to my comments about Woody.

I agree with OBrien 10:43 am post. Woody has routinely pulls guys in the past when they were on fire. It’s as though has a substitute pattern that he relies on regardless if the guy has it going. He is still reluctant to play is reserves save for Crawford and Teague. That will not work against the elite teams in the league. You got ten fouls to use between RandMo and Collins on Bynum…I do not remember seeing either guy in the game. Also in the fourth quarter when Teague had it going…I thought that was our best match up going down the stretch of the fourth quarter when the second unit got us back in the game. Clearly, Teague was too quick for Fisher. I would have ridden that match up until Phil made an adjustment.

If the first unit goes into their typical swoon…don’t hesitate get the second unit in the game…try to close the flood gates before the game gets out of reach. That is my only complaint about Woody this early in the season. Start playing the reserves…especially Bigs…so you can develop some confidence in them. Other than that, I think what Woody JJ, and Al said was accurate and on point regarding the debacle that took place in the third quarter. The defense was clearly lacking. I like what I heard from JJ…I think the guys will respond.

I love the kid JTO…he is fearless going to the rack…I would insert him into the game whenever the team starts going into one their lethargic funks. He is special!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
2:24 pm

Mike is back

What did you think of JTO’s dunk on Odom?

GeeMack

November 2nd, 2009
2:38 pm

Bone,

The easiest thing to do is blame the coach. Here are the thing we know; this Hawks team has improved each year under Woody. He has managed to get this team back to respectability without a bonifide superstar (sorry JJ is not a superstar). Also when the Hawks play defense the way Woody teachs they are successful. Look at the Bos series in the playoff, last year on the road in Miami when we needed a win & last year 6 & 0 start. These were al a result of the defense Woody teaches.

Woody is in the same position Doc Rivers was in 2 years ago in Bos. although Al Jefferson & Kendrick Perkins are much better than Al & Josh. You put better players around PP and the losing stops. If you give Woody better talent. The results will be a lot better.

26 years of ATL Hawks

November 2nd, 2009
2:38 pm

Know in advance I support the team and want us to win. Can’t believe a few folks were knit picking my comments about turns. Did you miss the 2nd half meltdown? Sloppy offense and sloppy, lazy defense. We got in that hole quick. Ugly to watch. The only bright spot was at least we fought back. You can’t spot a decent team 20 in the 2nd half and expect to win, much less when they have rings. You would’ve thought Kobe & Lamar lead the league in rebounds watching the end of the game. Can’t anyone box out? We gotta put this behind us. There’s no reason we can’t finish the month 13-4. Let this one burn boys. From the coaches to the last man on the bench. Let it burn deep. We need that fire to get sparked. You can’t wine for respect if you never earn it. We’ve got the pieces, we just gotta make it happen.

BONE

November 2nd, 2009
2:45 pm

GeeMack it wasn’t becuz of Woodson the Hawks record improved. It’s called natural progression. The young players got more experience so of course the records would improve. Woodson has held this team back by not playing to their obvious strenghts which is pushing the tempo. Like Mz. Hawkdafied said the hawks need to stop trying to be like the old pistons and be theirselves. Woodson is part of the problem not the solution.

Mike is back

November 2nd, 2009
2:47 pm

hawks_4_life , awesoooooooooooooooooooooooome bro!!!!!!

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
2:52 pm

Can you imagine if we can pick and roll him and Al?

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
2:56 pm

Sekou also said 2 years ago that the Hawks don’t have a whatzdunit (or something), which is a very physical 2 or 3 who teams fear. It was after we played Sacramento (Artest was on the team) Anyone remember?

Dan

November 2nd, 2009
2:58 pm

jeje,

I’m sure that if Joe would have said “I” then the Hawks would have been given 9 more points and the win last night. Who cares what he says to the press? It does not matter. What matters is what goes on in the locker room. And, from what I can tell, no one on that team has a problem with Joe. Joe has been the leader of the team now for a long time. Saying “me” or “I” or “we” does not change anything.

The season is way too long for people to be going into meltdown mode after the third game. Yes, too many turnovers. But, did you really chalk up the game at the Lakers as a W? C’mon….this team is fine. Dropping a game on the west coast trip is not the end of the world.

KSEE

November 2nd, 2009
3:01 pm

as soon as Al started getting frustrated with the no calls..the whole thing started to collapse. that first half looked so promising tho. oh well on to the next game…lets get a Win hawks!!

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
3:07 pm

The Hawks have plays. They just don’t run them. We run feeble picks and then with 9 seconds on the shot clock, a player finally does something. I even pointed it out to others last night — we wait till 7 seconds on the shot clock to execute

Terrell

November 2nd, 2009
3:12 pm

You guys are so funny. “We need our back ups to play more than 16 minutes a game!!” I knew as soon as Atl lost you all would be complaining about how Woody used his bench “TOO” much!

If you watch the game at all, you saw Horford get fouled 3 times on one play and it wasn’t called. The refs were allowing the Lakers to be overly agressive that quarter and they were. That’s what seperated the teams. When Atl touched Kobe it was a foul but the other way around only happend when the foul was on Ron Artest. If you didn’t watch the whole game you really don’t have anything to stand on to pass you opinion.

I also saw our backups outplay their backups in the 4th quarter, but nobody wants to talk about that. Nobody wants to talk about how Woody left Teague and Crawford on the floor when we were coming back. Everybody wants to get mad because he took JJ out. He did what you all were crying about. He rested JJ and you’re mad. You guys are very fickled fans.

al horford/zaza pachulia

November 2nd, 2009
3:16 pm

MY FAVORITE MARSHMELLOWS

al horford/zaza pachulia

November 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm

MY FAVORITE MARSHMALLOWS

Marvin Williams

November 2nd, 2009
3:18 pm

Coach Woodson,

please trade me I suck

IDIOT CHECK.

November 2nd, 2009
3:21 pm

HEY LETS RUN A PLAY WHERE WE GET A CENTER WHO CAN RUN, JUMP, SHOOT, BLK SHOTS, CREATE HIS OWN SHOTS AND DRAW DEFENDERS. LETS CALL IT THE LEGITIMATE CENTER PLAY. ITS THE ONE WHERE OUR CENTER GETS THE BEST OF THERE CENTER EVERY DAY AND WHO SHOWS UP EVERY DAY.

IDIOT CHECK.

November 2nd, 2009
3:25 pm

YEAH I LIKE THAT PLAY. WE CAN RUN AN INSIDE OUTSIDE PLAY BOOK WITH THAT KIND OF TALENT. ITS HARD TO RUN PLAYS THAT WORK IF YOU DONT HAVE THE TALENT. LET RUN THAT LEGITIMATE CENTER PLAY WHERE WE THROW THE BALL INSIDE AND OUR CENTER WORKS THEIR CENTER AND SCORE AND 1 FOR 3 OR 4 PLAYS THEN WHEN THEY COLLAPSE WE GO BACK OUT SIDE CALL IN WHAT YOU WANT IT WILL WORK AS WILL ALL PLAYS IF YOU MAKE YOUR SHOTS!!@1!

Allen

November 2nd, 2009
3:27 pm

Is it me are does Mike Woodson look like a dumbass everytime they shine a camera on him he doesn’t have a clue what the hell is going on. The past years it wasn’t that High of expectations but this year is alot different he will be exposed and be out of here by the half way mark. Marvin Williams is a joke every season they amp him up as if he made big strides during the offseason bull s>?t I makes me made just seeing him walk he is pure sorry. Joe had it right we are soft including him lets not forget last year playoffs.

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:28 pm

I did not post earlier. Who ever is imitating me, stop it. My mother is in heaven. So please stop it. Ken, protect me.

Jerry

November 2nd, 2009
3:31 pm

My position has not changed since LAST year. FIRE WOODSON

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:31 pm

Allen Its you allen. He looks like a stud to me.

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:32 pm

Allen Its you . He looks like a stud to me.

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:32 pm

Well Sybil, it appears your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Sybil

November 2nd, 2009
3:33 pm

Fuccck you Grandad

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
3:33 pm

GeeMack is right as usual.

KW

November 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm

First thing first the Hawks are having the same problem they had last year the front court did everyone see that Joe Johnson had more rebounds than anyone on the front court for some reason those guys hang out to much on the perimeter they need to change their front court Marvin Willirams need to come of the bench with the second unit Al Horford need to move to power forward and Josh Smith need to be a slashing small forward drill and kick opening the drilling lanes for his team mates. Someone earlier had an interesting question. Why jason Collins is not playing? If the man have anything at all it have toh be better than what ZAZA is doing, Al Horford is just getting killed and Josh Smith just don’t care about rebounding on certain nights check the stats bottom line Mike Woodson need

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm

fu_k you sh_t face!

Sybil

November 2nd, 2009
3:35 pm

Oh yeah, well F you fool!

grandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:36 pm

Ok Sybil look, I did not mean it. ?The Devil made me do it. That it Woodson made me do it. Im sorry, will you take me back?

Sybil

November 2nd, 2009
3:37 pm

F U!

theZaZaguy

November 2nd, 2009
3:38 pm

I think Tim Donaghy had a point. The refs were definitely against us. But the sign of a truly good team is to overcome adversity and compete regardless. By getting too frustrated and falling apart, we made it too easy for the refs to affect the game. If we would have hung in and kept our composure, I don’t see how the refs could have continued their horrible behaviour. By falling apart, the refs could just call an honest game the rest of the way once it was basically over and get away with a serious lapse in unfair practices.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm

BONE- I think Woodson does a better than average job. He is not perfect by any measure and I am not sure if he knows this team well enough yet to play to their strenghts all the time. Clearly, this team does not play with heart on the road, we gave them a pass last year, because of the youth element. This year I don’t give them a pass. How much of their lack of maturity and fire on the road is due to Woodson? I don’t know, clearly he is not off the hook there, but it is also on the players. Just like GeeMack said, three years ago Doc Rivers was being boo’d in Boston and about to be run out of town. Now he is some coaching genius? Players play, coaches prepare. Were the Hawks not prepared properly? Maybe. Did the players fold their tents? Definitely. Either way I am not happy. But, let’s be clear the issue on the team is not a lack of an offensive system.

Gandad

November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm

Allen it you buddy. You need glasses.

KW

November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm

Sorry I didn’t finish my comments Mike Woodson need to make a long overdue decision that should have been made last year changing the front court lineup.

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
3:41 pm

How about we blame it on poor play and resign ourselves to step up our game. Oh that would be too much like right. My bad.

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
3:42 pm

KW- The how do you explain Horford averaging 17 points and 12 boards in the first two games? Was he suddenly “in position” then?

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
3:43 pm

Oh no! I have to agree with undisputed champ…. the ground is getting cold cause h*ll is freezing over. But, man you are right on!

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
3:45 pm

KW I like your thoughts however Id rather let horford come off the bench. He has no offense. Josh plays the pf very well and can score. Horford cannot create his own shots. What do you think of

Crawford pg
jj sg
Evans sf
josh pf
(we get a real center from some where)

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
3:46 pm

Daniel does Horford really have offensive talent?

kwooden1

November 2nd, 2009
3:49 pm

I just watched most of the 3rd quarter again on NBA Broadband league pass. They were down 4 with about 6mins left in the 3rd, clearly in the game. Then the sequence where JSmoove rebounds the ball, starts the break and Fisher steals the ball occurred. They were down 6 at that point and Marvin then gets an open look from 3 and misses. If that shot goes down their only down 3. The HAWKS later go down 10 with about 3mins left, still in the game. The collapse starts at this point, with several turnovers and missed rebound opportunities. At this point the HAWKS need to do a better job of executing their offensive, by getting the ball inside to Horford. Horford didn’t have a lot of opportunities in the paint, and that is something that has to change. I know that Byman was playing well, but that shouldn’t stop the HAWKS from attacking inside. JSmoove also needs to starting working inside during those times in the game.

The HAWKS really have to concentrate on securing defensive rebounds, by putting a body on guys and getting stronger with the ball. Horford and JSmoove are undersized when it comes to playing the Lakers but a lot of times they need to box-out or just put a body on someone.

GO HAWKS!!

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
3:54 pm

kwooden1 In the game prior Horford had 11 shots and made four. If he had made all those shots hed would have had a great game. 4 of 11 wont get it. He has to get open too. Bynum was on him like stink on sh!t. To get the ball you have to get open and then you have to finish when you get your chance. The best offensive play is any play where you put the ball in the whole. Lets run the put the ball in the basket play… how about that play?

richbrave

November 2nd, 2009
4:19 pm

Ouch. If my HAWKS got man-handled like that, what’ll happen when the D.C. home-boys go west? Too grim to contemplate.

hawks_4_life

November 2nd, 2009
4:21 pm

Im 4 games back in fantasy bball

Big Ray

November 2nd, 2009
4:30 pm

Gotta love the blog after a loss.

Some people will correctly identify what went wrong and pull no punches, but many more will use the loss as an opportunity to bolster their argument against whichever player (or coach) is their favorite to hate on.

Others will claim hate for almost the entire team, but won’t go away (make sense to you?). In the end, it turns into MannyT’s coined term, “canniblogging.” Ain’t blogging fun?

I have to admit, I saw one post today on a blog that was one of the most sophisticated versions of an obvious attempt to blame a single player for a loss, that I’ve ever seen. Made the author’s intent as transparent as clean glass. Heh…..

Big Ray

November 2nd, 2009
4:31 pm

GREAT post by DANIEL at 3:39 p.m.

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
4:36 pm

In my opinion, with the comments JJ has made (prior to the season, and after the game last night), I wonder if in the back of his mind, he is seriously contemplating leaving the Hawks at the end of the season.

Is it that he wanted more money than the 4 years, $60 mil? Or is that he’s not sure he wants to be back with the Hawks next year, because he wants to win a title (be a Robin instead of having to be our Batman) and the Hawks are too inconsistent and soft mentally.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm

21 Questions:

1) Why is Marvin starting? HE IS NOT WORTHY TO START
2) Why does Woodson not have any offensive plays? The whole scheme is one-on-one with feeble picks set
3) Why is Horford so in love with his fadeaway jumper which never goes in?
4) Why doesn’t Josh Smith realize he is so effective this year when he DRIVES THE LANE and uses DECISION MAKING SKILLS?
5) Why are there only 3 backup guards/wings? How the hell do you take the starters out and have the remaining guards/wings in?
6) What is the point of getting Othello Hunter over another wing like Stackhouse? It’s obvious we don’t need 2 backup bigs who never play (Othello and RandMo)
7) When is this team gonna start winning on the road? We haven’t won a meaningful road game since almost January 2009
Why is Bibby bigger than all our bigs?
9) Why are JJ and Evans also bigger than our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look almost anorexic
10) Why is Joe Smith’s defense so pedestrian?
11) Why can ZaZa NOT make a layup?
12) How the hell is Marvin Williams making 7.5 million a year for us? 6 points last night…People act like he had a bad game — um no, he does this every night
13) Why is our playcalling so bad?
14) Why is JJ never going to be a leader for this team? He never takes responsibility for everything and says “we” rather than “I”
15) Can the owners please let JJ go after this year and throw all their “money” at Dwyane Wade?
16) Why will Woodson NOT alter the starting lineup? He acts like we only are allowed to have 1 lineup. Freaking start Crawford over Duck. My Goodness — Williams is the worst player in our rotation
17) Why do we have 3 frontcourt starters who are all the exact same size? It would be great if we could get rid of Duck for a Marc Gasol
18) Why are the Hawks so content with having this same core? Can we please make a move to get rid of the waste (Marvin) so we can get another wing
19) Why can’t this team win on the road? It could get ugly
20) Why does this team have no leader?
21) Why is Bibby so damn overweight-looking? He does not realize that at his age he needs to be thinner so he can be more mobile and not so bow-legged-looking

BBgenie

November 2nd, 2009
4:59 pm

Damm Hawks Fans! Stop crying! Did you think we would be 82-0????? We lost one game to the Defending NBA Champs by 10. Wow. I Blame the Frontcourt players!!! No one showed up, period. Al, Smooth,Marvin or ZaZa. Let’s see what happens vs Portland, will we bounce back? or will we compete and take care of our business?? It’s a very long season. It’s good that the players are talking, and shouting about DEFENSE!!! It shows that they care about their Defensive effort!!! Hawks in 7!!!!!

Daniel

November 2nd, 2009
5:03 pm

appreciate it Ray. See y’all later.

The Flash

November 2nd, 2009
5:06 pm

I didn’t see the game. Hey, it never stopped me before. At the beginning of games in the beginning of the season shots can be had, by anyone. I am not in the abstract hatin on Woody for taking JJ out if he was shooting lights out in the first quarter.

For this team to compete with any formidable team, the offense in the half court must flow. If you can’t get it working about teams who predictably can and will up the intensity on the defensive end as the game progresses, you are in trouble. JJ’s shooting another 7 for 8 in the rest of the first quarter and into the second would not have changed that.

Either this team “gets” that they need to establish an offense that produces shots for everyone or it doesn’t. If JJ is ticked when he gets taken out just because he was hot and wants to shoot some more, he is not getting it, and, if he is not getting it, no one else on this team possibly can.

You guys and Sekou are simply enablers. My premise from early, early on (you think Thinkingman) is that JJ cannot catch the ball and see the efficacy of getting rid of it to change the point of attack, to then clear space for someone else, aka MW, so he can go (everyone says that want to see him do that) without running into the double team that JJ routinely commands. He CANNOT do it.

Others have argued with that. They have said from day one that JJ held it whenever he caught it because there were no other scoring options. I always thought that that was a bunch of bull. I did think that Woody thought that that was true, however, and made JJ into Oscar Robinson, who either shot it or got an assist or gave it up and got it again and either shot it or got an assist, ad nausium. JJ ain’t Oscar and Oscar was boring in any case, if you ask me.

Now, my belief is that Woody had to go because whenever any of the old guard, and there are still a critical mass of them around, see Woody, no matter what he says, they see the portfollio that he embewed JJ with from the beginning.

JJ ain’t giving up being the MAN which in his perspective means holding the thing and creating with it and never just giving it up in the flow of things, and creating flow for others without the ball. If Woody now is finally asking for him to do that, it is a message that he can not effectively give.

Until the talking heads and writing heads start calling JJ as a remake of dozens of other scorers who were impediments to good offense from their teammates, maybe I went a little too far labeling Oscar as one of them, take the other Robinson, I’m forgetting his first name, nothing will change. If the heads start labeling JJ what he is, a uni-dimensional player who looks first and foremost for himself, not because he is selfish, just because that is what he sees, the impetous for change will not be there. Then, the worst thing the Hawks management could do, aside from resigning Woody, would be to resign JJ.

But then again, I wouldn’t have signed him in the first place, not for the price in terms of personnel he cost, but that is another story that no one wants to repeat, including even me.

niremetal

November 2nd, 2009
5:19 pm

Daniel, replied to your 3:39 on the other blog

Iblameurparents

November 2nd, 2009
5:35 pm

I see why Joe did not take the extension during the off season. He knows that either 1.) this team will not take the next step as long as Woody is at the helm 2.) As long as Woody is here Josh will continue to have delusions of being a point forward and play this team out of contention. JS is either awfully good or awfully bad there is no middle ground with him. Any coach that would allow him to stand on the perimeter and hoist wide open fall away jumpers is not a coach at all but an interim to a real coach. Where has Marvin’s game gone? Not that he was ever a high calibre player but he was at least serviceable. He patted Artest on the butt so many times, showing so much respect that I thought he was playing in a charity game or something. As deep as LA’s bigs were getting into the paint off transition, I certainly thought Jason Collins could have given us a few minutes and/or a few fouls.

I know this is only the 3rd game but we should be beyond these gaffes, there remains no movement on offense, far too many jumpers and no offensive rebounds. This is primarily due to the fact that the offense pulls everyone away from the lane with sporadic pick and rolls primarily for Bibby, everyone else must create their own shot via the dribble. The problem with that is only JJ, Bibby, Crawford and perhaps Teague (even though he looked a little shaky early in the game) can go off the dribble which means you are kicking out to JS, Marvin and AH et al…forget about it!

Another theory is that JJ is gone anyway so the team is looking more to Crawford to take over. Anyway you slice it not even a middle level coach would take JJ out of the game when he is on a roll like he was last night. Truth hurts!

jerrywest

November 2nd, 2009
6:07 pm

Sekou,

1 question:

Why doesn’t Woody smack Josh with a baseball bat every time he shoots from 10+ feet.

Clyde

November 2nd, 2009
6:20 pm

This is the bad part about this situation. Zaza, Marvin and Bibby have played the same way since they have gotten here. They show flashes of greatness but when it comes to big games they disappear. YET this summer they got new contracts. What’s wrong with this picture. SMH

Jondeal

November 2nd, 2009
6:34 pm

We all know why Sund has not renewed woodsons’s contract. JJ is on a roll, pull him,great coaching!

Put the damn ball in the basket

November 2nd, 2009
6:58 pm

HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED THAT THE TEAM THAT PUTS THE BALL IN THE BASKET MOST….WINS? I KNOW THAT ITS A COMPLICATED CONCEPT. HISTORY HAS THIS AS A RECORD THAT HAS NEVER FAILED. THE TEAM THAT PUTS THE BALL IN THE HOLE THE MOST WINS. HUMMM

MAKE YOUR SHOTS. JUST WIN BABY’
HORFORD LOVES THE FALL AWAY SHOT BECAUSE HES GETTING PUSHED OFF THE BLOCK, CAN SHOOT OVER THE BIG GUYS AND SO HE HAS NO CHOICE,

I AGREE WITH THE HATERS, WOODSON NEEDS TO MAKE HIS SHOTS IN ORDER FOR THE HAWKS TO WIN. YOU CANT WIN IF YOU DONT MAKE YOUR SHOTS. MY FAVORITE PLAY IS THE ONE WHERE THE GUY PUTS THE BALL IN THE BASKET. ITS A GREAT PLAY BUT CLEARLY EVERY ONE CAN T DO IT.

HEY STUPID.

November 2nd, 2009
7:00 pm

ONE MAN CANT BEAT THE LAKERS. IT TAKES MORE THAN JJ. IT TAKES A TEAM INSIDE AND OUT. WE NEED F_cking balance

kw

November 2nd, 2009
7:00 pm

The Hawks back court has never been the problem the problem is the front court every one of those guys are playing out of position let start with Al he should be playing power forward the hawks should have never started the season with him playing center Josh
Smith is a small forward at best the guy has a lot of tools but as long as he continue playing out of position standing out on the perimeter and not in the area of the low post what good is he and last but not lease Marvin William should have began the season coming off the bench if he’s that good let him earn his position this guy never worked for his position I always through Childress should have been in the starting lineup instead of him and didn’t they pay him more than they offered
Childress now that’s something to really think about.

Put the damn ball in the basket

November 2nd, 2009
7:02 pm

Horford cant shoot over the big guys

Ken Strickland

November 2nd, 2009
7:02 pm

It’s amazing how little these BAND WAGON JUMPING FAKE HAWK FANS know about basketball. Since the gm ended last night, these blogs have been flooded complaining about who didn’t score, or how sorry our OFF was, or this player was. Well, when you score 110pts and lose by 8, you certainly can’t attribute the loss to a lack of OFF. Even though we were 22pts down in the 4th qtr, we mounted a strong comeback that put a big enough scare into PJackson he reinserted his starters to finish the gm. It was our DEF, not our OFF that triggered that comeback.

Another thing, our braintrust has to show more innovativeness and awareness and start taking advantage of matchups at both ends of the floor. EXAMPLE 1: Since Horford wasn’t scoring, and was having trouble with Bynums length, it would’ve been the perfect time, and a safe move, to send JCollier into the gm. What would it have cost us to find out if he could have used his size and experience to take away some of the easy inside scoring opportunities Bynum and the other Lakers were enjoying?

EXAMPLE 2: Since Smoove wasn’t scoring outside or inside, it would have been a good move to replace him with JSmith. He’s a better inside and outside scorer and would’ve kept Odom from dropping off and providing help DEF, like he routinely did with Smoove.

EXAMPLE 3: After JJ torched Kobe in the 1st qtr, PJackson switched Artest to guard JJ. Since Artest is their SF, and Marvin wasn’t contributing offensively, it would’ve been a good move to switch JJ to SF and bring Crawford in to play SG. When we started falling behind, instead of sticking with the starting lineup, or standard rotation, I would have made adjustments and played the following lineup: SF-JJ, C-JCollier, PF-JSmith, SG-JCrawford and PG-JTeague. That lineup would have given us a much better DEF matchup in the middle and the speed, quickness and scoring ability to attack from any position anywhere on the floor, except center.

There were a number of things that could have and should have been done that would have made a difference in the outcome of that gm, and all of it cannot be blamed on any 1 or 2 players or MWoodson. THIS WAS A TOTAL TEAM LOSS, PERIOD!!

richbrave

November 2nd, 2009
7:09 pm

doc:

Here’s a current article about our man “CRITTER.” written by MICHAEL LEE on his blog “WIZARDS INSIDER.”

“I also ran into Javaris Crittenton after practice. He was elated to have the cast removed from his left ankle, allowing him to walk freely in a boot. But he was disappointed that the Wizards declined to pick up his fourth-year option worth $2.28 million. He will become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

“I was shocked, really,” Crittenton said. “I feel like I progressed when I got the opportunity to play. I feel like I did some good things out there. I don’t know what the reason was — it could be because of the injury.”

Crittenton shrugged. “I talked to Ernie [Grunfeld], and he said he couldn’t get a chance to evaluate me because of my injury or whatever to see how I fit in. That kind of shocked me. I didn’t expect to be a free agent, but maybe it will be a blessing in disguise for me.”

Crittenton said he should be in the boot for another week or two and then begin working out again. I asked Crittenton how hard it was to be out with an injury and facing an uncertain future.

“It’s not tough, it just puts a little bit of pressure on you because you’re on a one-year deal,” he said. “Being on a one-year deal and you’re hurt? I don’t know. I’m trusting in God about this, making the best of it. No negative thoughts went though my head. I just try to be positive about this whole thing because that’s the mentality I’ve tried to have since the injury. Having this on top of the injury is kind of tough. You think about it. But at the end of the day, it is what it is.”

To reiterate my previous comments, I believe GRUNFELD is really hacked-off by JAVARIS’ unauthorized play this summer and resulting injury. I believe they were ready to trade MIKE JAMES’ 6.46 million year for a breathing body, and were forced to keep him instead for insurance purposes.

Here’s an IVAN CARTER comment on JAMES from March 2009.

As for his future, James holds a $6.46 million player option for next season. No chance he walks away from that so, barring a trade, he’ll be a Wizard.

By Ivan Carter | March 24, 2009; 1:06 PM ET

Not held in high esteem by FLIP SAUNDERS either, he’s been wearing the DNP-CD sign all season – the ONLY player in that position. EVEN the fifteenth man PAUL DAVIS got some garbage time against the NETS.

JAMES has been collecting splinters in his azz along with POLLIN’s checks much to my personal delight on both counts. As far as ownership is concerned, I believe in the old adage, “A fool and his money are soon parted.”

But IMHO, everybody in the management end of the franchise is doing a slow burn at not being able to get out from under MJ’s contract, and all daggers are pointed at CRITTENTON. Of course, you are aware of the WIZARDS’ precarious fate where guarantee contracts and the salary cap are concerned. This is not a good situation for our man to be in. I think there’s a fifty-fifty chance he’s not offered as a free agent and he walks after this season. The HAWKS have obviously filled his slot with JEFF TEAGUE, so who knows where he’ll go.

But unless he wows the management with on-court time which will be exceedingly difficult to come by this season, he’s toast in WASHINGTON. And I haven’t even mentioned that he was the key ingredient in the ANTONIO DANIELS deal, not JAMES. This leaves ERNIE G. with much egg on his face, and I’m guessing GRUNFELD is not someone you want to cross in any way.

Such a shame. I really like the kid’s game. He’s got serious potential.

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
7:36 pm

“it would’ve been the perfect time, and a safe move, to send JCollier into the gm.”

Wow you are a true @$$hole. Good job

vava74

November 2nd, 2009
7:36 pm

ILL-Logical,

Thank you for the dedicated post. I enjoy your contributions as well, which, I am sure you do not deny, are not deprived of opinionated remarks.

I thoroughly enjoy Sekou’s work, however, just because it’s Sekou’s opinion I am not forced to agree with him wholeheartedly.

First of all I would like to point out that I have absolutely no “hidden agenda”, no “pet-hatred” or “special admiration” for any of the Hawks, including Josh, Woody, JJ, …

I am neither a teenager with maturity issues nor a frustrated guy who can only escape life going into blogs to voice opinions against X or Y. I just happen to love BBall, been a Hawks fan since the mid-80’s and like to have fun here in the blog discussing about this and that.

Hence, my sincere (and romantic) desire is that THESE HAWKS get it together and prove that you can build a team from scratch with a bunch of young players mixed with a few selected vets/outcasts.

I’m that type of guy: I love the underdog, the hard fought victory, the defiance of the odds…

Consequently, I am biased against trades and major shuffles just for the sake of change since I have a strong belief that you can be successful with just about any group of players provided that they all pull in the same direction and learn and embrace their roles.

I acknowledge that this is not possible with ANY group and that possibly our group is not viable or that Woody is not the man to lead us there.

However, it is precisely within the above philosophy why I pick(ed) on Josh!!!

If only I had his physical ability and his present pack of skills… my god… if you think that Rodman was a dominant rebounder/defender… I would eat the parquet floor if necessary to defend my turf and to get us to win. If necessary without taking a single shot in 82 games!!!

Yes, this is a “delusional” rant, but it is merely devised to illustrate that, if only Josh realized that he is blessed with a specific combination of tremendous physical ability and a somehow limited bball talent he could take us very far. He only needs to maximize his characteristics… and stop attempting to do things he will never do well enough.

Basically, I pick on him because he is the most “frustrating” member of the roster.

Back to my posts: my point in relation to JJ’s benching is that we were heading nowhere with JJ scoring at will (I even suspect that this fact was part of Phil Jackson’s plan and I still feel that JJ was not being guarded seriously by the Lakers on purpose).

And yes, I would have loved to see him score 50 or 60, one of those unique BBall moments…

However, when Woody yanked him, I was already convinced that that would not happen and that shortly after Phil would either double team JJ or assign Artest to him and he would not be able to continue to score that way sending us into a funk.

I would also like to point out that even with JJ in the bench for an extended period we remained in the game until the half time when, if not for two misses to close the second quarter, we could have gone down only 3 or 4 points instead of 6.

With JJ out, we were only -4points and when he came back it was not him that was particularly cold, it was the Laker’s defense that was already working him differently: he took only 3 shots – all missed – and got to the line once in 7.30 minutes.

As for me not bashing other players which would be also deserving… well that would only minimize the effect of the message.

If you have 5 right things to say but 2 are in your opinion more important, you should focus on the 2 and leave the others to be highlighted by someone else. That is what I did.

Indeed other players deserved a lot of criticism. Al for instance could not contain Bynum, although he won the battle of the boards – (9-3) a showing that he at least fought.

Again, how about Josh? He got out-rebounded 5-14 by Odom. I think that this is the mark of someone who was not fighting the right way (specially when you are working as a PF).

Marvin and Zaza, no question. I mentioned them briefly and I was the one that against the Wiz shouted to give him some coffee so he could wake up.

Woody? I am not very fond of the switching defense, at least not during the whole match and not against any adversary.

I also think that his offense lacks simple basic things like shooters coming off picks, etc… however, once you see Josh launching the long ball like he did yesterday, going 3-10 and only once to the line for a +1, then you are bound to realize that there is an element of lack of discipline that is hindering Josh’s game and ours. There is actually a very simple rule for Josh to follow: when beyond 12 feet from the basket, “pass” or “drive”. That’s it!!

JeJe

November 2nd, 2009
7:42 pm

GET RID OF MARVIN WILLIAMS

Clyde

November 2nd, 2009
7:46 pm

FIRE WOODY

niremetal

November 2nd, 2009
7:52 pm

VOTE FOR PEDRO

cp

November 2nd, 2009
7:52 pm

I’m sorry but this roster is nothing like the Boston roster from a few years ago when they wanted Doc fired. They were even younger than this team and didn’t have as much talent. I also believe Pierce was hurt a lot that season. Doc has done more with less. Look at what his teams in Orlando did although the only thing he had was Mc Grady. Once again this roster is nothing like that Boston team from a few years ago. They were younger and did not have this much talent. Al Jefferson wasnt the player then he was now. Rondo was still learning to play the pg position. Gerald Green was using his athleticism to get by. That team just was not very good. Those young guys had not matured yet and their best player stayed hurt.

CTrim

November 2nd, 2009
7:53 pm

Anybody see Marvin? We could change his name to “ghost” since no one can see him. Wish Josh wouldn’t cry to the refs after every call. He seemed like a different person in Atlanta. Wish Jason Collins came in to clog up the middle and make it look like someone was there. I heard he was really good at that. In the 16 minutes Zaza played we were outscored by 15 points. I kept hearing that Lamar Odom’s length gives everyone fits. I thought Hawks were built around length to give other teams fits. I guess Odom must be “lengthier”. It was nice to see Joe go off, even for just a quarter. Bibby is still an offensive force and a defensive liability. He is perfect for this team but he might need to be the one to come off the bench, not Crawford. It was good to see Sweet Teague come in and get us back in the game. The future is bright.

Champs showed us why they are the champs. It’s Kobe’s team. Although very entertaining to watch, Hawks are still taking applications.

cp

November 2nd, 2009
7:53 pm

I mean he wasn’t the player then he is now.

Sautee

November 2nd, 2009
7:59 pm

The immense overreaction on this blog for ONE LOSS is absurd.

Funny, I don’t see the sky falling.

vava74

November 2nd, 2009
8:01 pm

IT’S ALL SAUTEE’S FAULT!!!

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2009
8:03 pm

Ken,

I agree with your 7:02 post. I asked Sekou whats up with Jason Collins (is he injured?), but he hasnt responded.

For the season, the Hawks are averaging 110 pts per game. Unfortunately, they are giving up 105.3 points per game. And thats unacceptable.

vava74

November 2nd, 2009
8:04 pm

I think it is not an overreaction. It is a simple case of “reality check”.

People were hoping for a stronger showing against a prime time opponent on an away game and we laid an egg again… and that is disappointing.

From my side, I was very sad to see Josh reverting back to his Mr. Hyde’s status in full bloom.

Big Ray

November 2nd, 2009
8:13 pm

Vava,

LOL. Yes, we get it. In a sea of Hawks, there is only one wayward bird….holy crap man….

ILL-logical

November 2nd, 2009
8:17 pm

VaVa 74
Thank you for your reply. It demonstated,once again , your passion and unique perspective. and your capacity to disagree,strongly, without becoming disagreeable.
Now, about those Hawks. The team ,organization and ownership have come a very long way in a relatively short amount of time. As noted before, this time last year, the hope was that the long pending law suite would not end the tenure of professional basketball in Atlanta; that a winning record could be obtained; and the players with expiring contracts would/could be signed.

Now these issues have been resolved in the affirmative and some observers are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. It’s their right to feel as such, I just have some differing views.

One, the intensity of the love/ hate relationship with Josh Smith amazes me. How a 23 year kid-it doesn’t matter how many years in the league a player has ,there are 30 year olds who cannot conduct themselves on or off the court with any measure of maturity( Iam looking at you Ron Artest) Here is a guy that the immortal Jay Bilus pronounced unfit on draft day on national television. Welcome to life as an 18 year old! Then for the next 4 years you are moved into 3 different positionss by a rookie head coach and you have a GM that drafts at your position in the first round for the next 4 years! My point?
This guy has had some challenges, overcome them and has kept a positive for the most part throughout his tenure. Poor judgement, lack of focus and more may be fairly ascribed to his behavior at one time or another. But he has never quit on the team ;shows up big in the playoff’s big games and wants to succeed.

I don’t know him and have only met him briefly at a summer league game here in atlanta.However, within the context of the team’s recent history- he seems like a building block to me. Of course, it is very appearant that the current incumbant head coach stongly differs.

Two,folks the no one within the Hawk’s camp from the top to the bottom rung expects this group to win a championship.Period. What I believe everyone -including many of the participants on this board- does expect is a marked improvement in the play and record of the team. And when they /we don’t see it, we react. Even after three games. It’s human nature in most respects and I am human. So when I question the comments of a paricipant I am trying to keep my and their eyes on the prize: a team that will continue to go and grow. And someday will obtain the Larry O’ Brien trophy.

Jody

November 2nd, 2009
8:40 pm

ILL-logical,

Excellent post and great points,

After watching last nights game, I’ve seen many folks in several places try to throw a lot of the blame for the loss on Josh Smith and to do that is both inaccurate and unfair. Did Josh make some bad decisions last night? Yes, but so did alot of other Hawks players (taking so many jump shots comes to mind). For anyone to expect Josh to consistently score in the paint against the Lakers frontline (6′ll and 7′1) is beyond me.

ProudTechFan

November 2nd, 2009
8:48 pm

i dont know what made me think i would come on here not here people calling for woodsons job after the third game of the season against the world champs. it took kobe 41 points to beat us. and we def could have won, as much as i would have loved to beat the lakers on the road, i can live with a lost like that to a better team on the road. Correction the best team in the league. get off woodsons back and get behind the team for a change, dam…

GO HAWKS!!!!

vava74

November 2nd, 2009
8:51 pm

ILL-Logic,

Fair view on Josh’s hard road up until now, however, I disagree on your view that Woody dislikes him or limits his role.

Josh is not suited to play SF because he can’t shoot and, with a high degree of probability, will never shoot well, his frame is now a bit heavier (its seems that this year a bit less) and he is on the weak side on some basic fundamentals.

Hence, his only possibility of REAL success is if he embraces the PF role and that involves that he focus on points where his physical capabilities can assist him to reach a plateau of excellence: defense and rebounding, and a develops a better shot selection and a couple of reliable moves down low.

Until this happens, he will not shine as much as he could (or not as often).

There wasn’t a single line on my posts where I attacked Josh Smith the man, the individual. I don’t think his character is flawed in a bad way, simply that he is a certain type of individual that “always knows better” and rejects guidance.

This image as the young-high-flying-reckless-and-extremely-spectacular-but-indisciplined player who has made the jump from high-school is very appealing to many, who identify themselves more with him rather than with a quiet(er) character like JJ who is known for not doing anything bad and doing almost everything reasonably well without excelling at anything in particular.

It’s a fact, flawed/quirky characters are more appealing than good/balanced ones and that is one of
Josh’s appeals, his well-intentioned-rebel-quirks in which people see themselves reflected.

The vast majority of people do not like discipline nor routines and set procedures, hence, they sympathize with with players which shine whilst eluding the system and acting creatively.

That is why people still like Iverson in spite of the fact that he clearly does not respect his colleagues by not accepting that practice and discipline within the game are fundamental for team sports success (again, I would like to emphasize that I believe that he is not mean intended).

Samuel

November 2nd, 2009
8:57 pm

You guys are wasting a lot of time blaming this guy and that guy. The bottom line is that the Lakers are world champions and are twenty points better than the Hawks. Actually, we played them pretty good. It was their length and athleticism that beat us.

You guys have been bashing Woody all season and last about playing JJ too much. You wanted to see your boys JTO and Craw. Well last night, you got your wish. Now, I guess we can stop with the “JJ is playing too many minutes” BS. Woody made his point.

Josh, still hasn’t learned. Love him to death but obviously has No grain in the silo.

EJH

November 2nd, 2009
9:01 pm

As I read some of the comments here it is hillarious to think because the coach pulled joe johnson in the first quarter that that is what caused he hawks the game. Woody is right they lost because the hawks did not play good defense or any defense, Joe Johnson man scored 41 points, but some people here thought the game only goes one quarter, the first quarter obviously. The game was not one or lost in the first quarter. It is won over four quarters and the hawks only played 2 1/2 qiarters. For all of you people saying woody lost the game because he took joe out in the first quarter, you have no basketball IQ.

Clyde

November 2nd, 2009
9:08 pm

TIME TO ORDER A NEW BATCH OF T-SHIRTS. Just like I said Bibby, Zaza and Marvin just got new contracts so they have nothing to play for. Veterans will quit on you but rookies will bust they tail to prove themselves.

I miss Mario West. He hustled and he played with heart. On the other hand Marvin Williams plays like a sissy. I ain’t never seen Marvin dive to the floor for a loose ball or take a charge. Woody is the only coach in the NBA that would start Marvin on his team.

FIRE WOODY

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
9:13 pm

Id like to see Woodson fired. I have no particular reason or rhyme, but if Ken wants him fire I do too.

I did it Ken. How’d I do?

Undisputed Champ!

November 2nd, 2009
9:15 pm

Good post Samuel!!!

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
9:22 pm

Georgia Sports 12:16 a.m. Monday, November 2, 2009

Bryant, big 3rd quarter push Lakers past Hawks

By GREG BEACHAM

LOS ANGELES — Kobe Bryant had 41 points and eight rebounds, Andrew Bynum added 21 points and the Los Angeles Lakers pulled away with 18 consecutive points in the third quarter for a 118-110 victory over the Atlanta Hawks on Sunday night.
Enlarge photo
Atlanta Hawks guard Jamal Crawford, left, goes up for a shot as Los Angeles Lakers center Andrew Bynum defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Atlanta Hawks guard Jamal Crawford, left, goes up for a shot as Los Angeles Lakers center Andrew Bynum defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. ()
Enlarge photo
Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom, right, goes up for a shot as Atlanta Hawks center Al Horford defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom, right, goes up for a shot as Atlanta Hawks center Al Horford defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. (
Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, right, goes up for a shot as Atlanta Hawks guard Jamal Crawford defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, right, goes up for a shot as Atlanta Hawks guard Jamal Crawford defends during the first half of their NBA basketball game, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
More Sports stories »

Lamar Odom had 11 points, 14 rebounds and eight assists for the defending NBA champions, who bounced back from a loss to Dallas with an overwhelming second half in Atlanta’s first defeat.

Story continues below ↓

Joe Johnson scored 18 of his 27 points in the first quarter for the Hawks, who opened a four-game road trip with an embarrassing third quarter before a late run made the score respectable.

Rookie point guard Jeff Teague also made another strong impression with 12 points in the fourth quarter of the Hawks’ fourth straight loss to the Lakers in Los Angeles.

Bryant capped the 97th 40-point game of hiscareer with eight points in the final minutes to hold off the Hawks’ last rally.

The Lakers’ home loss to the Mavericks on Friday night left coach Phil Jackson concerned about everything from their pick-and-roll defense to their overall intensity. Jackson postulated that Los Angeles’ ring ceremony earlier in the week distracted from his team’s focus, and he wasn’t pleased by either of the Lakers’ last two practices.

Los Angeles also played its third straight game without forward Pau Gasol, who’s growing frustrated with the slow pace of his recovery after straining his right hamstring three weeks ago.

The Lakers took control with a 22-3 run in the third quarter, and Bryant scored 19 points in the frame. Starting with a dunk by Bryant midway through, the Lakers got into their ideal offensive flow for the first time this season while holding Atlanta scoreless for more than five minutes.

The run was highlighted by a four-basket sequence that had the crowd on its feet.

After Bryant made a graceful behind-the-back pass to Ron Artest for a fast-break dunk, Odom threw an alley-oop pass to Bynum for another dunk. Artest then got loose for a breakaway dunk, and Odom capped it with a midcourt steal and a pass to Bynum for an uncontested jam that put Los Angeles up 90-70.

Bryant, Odom and Bynum all returned to the game after Atlanta trimmed a 24-point deficit to 14 midway through the fourth.

Jamal Crawford added 17 points and Mike Bibby had 15 for the Hawks, whose struggles against top opponents have been a focus of coach Mike Woodson’s improvement plans this season. But the Hawks couldn’t keep up with the Lakers’ transition game, and they grew increasingly sloppy with each big play by Bryant and the Lakers in the third quarter.

Gasol, the Lakers’ second-leading scorer and leading rebounder last year, will accompany the Lakers on their two-game road trip to Oklahoma City and Houston, but still might not be ready to play.

NOTES: Johnson scored 14 of the Hawks’ first 17 points in the first eight minutes, and he added a four-point play on a foul from Bryant moments later. … Gasol missed just one regular-season game last season. … Courtside fans included Ryan Seacrest, David Beckham (about 2½ hours after the Los Angeles Galaxy’s playoff game ended), the Dodgers’ Matt Kemp and actor Andy Garcia.

___

Clyde

November 2nd, 2009
9:23 pm

LOL @GRANDDAD

Grandad

November 2nd, 2009
9:23 pm

Andrew Bynum added 21 points

November 2nd, 2009
9:24 pm

Where the HELL was horford and zaza?

Andrew Bynum added 21 points

November 2nd, 2009
9:25 pm

Well lets see how Horford does against a real center. NOW WE F_CKING KNOW!

Andrew Bynum added 21 points

November 2nd, 2009
9:27 pm

Odom threw an alley-oop pass to Bynum for another dunk. Artest then got loose for a breakaway dunk, and Odom capped it with a midcourt steal and a pass to Bynum for an uncontested jam that put Los Angeles up 90-70.

WHERE THE HELL WAS HOE FORD AND ZAZA

Yupperz

November 2nd, 2009
9:58 pm

Where the hell were you during the first two games when Horfrod outplayed two 7footers?

Johnny Walking

November 2nd, 2009
10:46 pm

Mannn we got alll Gravy compared to the Nets right now. GEEEEZZZZ.. Damnnn. Who put that junk together?? Did Frank ever get fired. If not he is probably walking the Green Mile.

Ken Strickland

November 2nd, 2009
10:56 pm

The Hawks play their 4th gm of the season tomorrow, that’s right 4th gm of the season. I know that’s hard to believe after reading all of the finger pointing crap from all of the BANDWAGON JUMPING FAKE FANS, after just one loss. It’s now time for all true Hawk fans to do like HC MWoodson, and move on to talking about what we need to do to defeat Portland. We’ll leave it to the FAKE FANS to continue whining and b!tching about what and/or who coulda shoulda done this and that against the Lakers.

Portland is another tall team. They might be taller than the Lakers, and Aldridge, their 6′11″ PF, can really shoot from the outside with range. We need to control BRoy and limit his damage. Offensively, we’re scoring enough points to get the job done. We’ve definitely got to come up with something much better than what we’re currently doing defensively if we expect to continue getting better.

I see us sweeping the remaining gms of this rd trip. Now, if we do that, what in the he!! will all of you negative minded, finger pointing, BANDWAGON JUMPING FAKE FANS have to b!tch and complain about then? It’s like BIG RAY said, certain ones, you know who you are, use any excuse to express your dislike for a particular player and blame that player for any and everything that’s perceived wrong with the Hawks.

niremetal

November 2nd, 2009
10:56 pm

My girlfriend is a Blazers fan, so no matter who wins tomorrow…I lose.

HAWKSFAN11

November 2nd, 2009
11:11 pm

This offseason we should have thru our money at another playmaker. instead of signing marvin for 37 million y not sign turkaglo for around the same or ariza or even artest.. if we get artest then joe wouldnt have to guard the kobe’s or the vince carter’s he could guard somebody else while artest plays the best player from the other team… marvin does absolutely nothing besised being outta control… we need another all-star to go along wit joe.. we DO NOT need to let joe go unless were getting d-wade… joe needs to go to the hole more becuase he shoots too many jumpers… we have no plays besides iso… josh smith will never in his life be a superstar, y does he think he can run the fast break? do u see garnett running the break? no he gives it to rondo then go catches an alley hoop… y does josh not go inside he spots up and shoots jumpers…

neshield

November 3rd, 2009
1:59 am

So did everyone have their TVs off by the time that Lamar Odom got posterized by the soon to be rookie of the year Jeff Teague. I love the fact that he was not afraid to take it strong to the hoop. Maybe even Joe Johnson can learn something from the rookie. Stop with all the floaters in the lane and take all 245 lbs or more and body somebody underneath the basket. They want to take the charge…ok fine you run into them with at full speed like LeBron would and next time they WILL move out of the way! Same goes for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams. The three of them need to start playing hard and don’t worry about the refs. Ron Artest gets the benefit of the don’t most nights because he doesn’t care. He will “body” you, push you, hold you, whatever it takesfor you to not get to the basket. We need more heart and some nastiness. When was the last time we had a technical foul for defending our basket at all cost.(oh thats right when Horford made TJ Ford cry!!!) Defend the basket at all cost and make them hit some jumpers for crying out loud.

Simpdawg

November 3rd, 2009
4:12 am

I think the Hawks made a big mistake in resigning Marvin Williams. The Hawks organization should have resigned Josh Childress over Marvin Williams. Josh Childress was the perfect slashing guard forward that could move without the basketball and create offense off of hustle plays. He was a better defender than Marvin, and the Hawks will struggle this year because they’re in dyer need of a player like him. Hell I would have rather sign Trevor Ariza than resigning Marvin to that contract he signed. I’m just saying!!!

Simpdawg

November 3rd, 2009
4:31 am

“Damn,” it’s about time someone stepped up and held this team accountable. It doesn’t make sense for this team to allow the Lakers to out score them 18-0 or 20-0, or whatever that run was in the third quarter. As Captain, Joe has every right to say what he said, and I hope this team listen and learn, because if this team fails to improve, you don’t have to worry about Joe Johnson because he won’t be here next year.

dap01

November 3rd, 2009
7:53 am

If we had Larry Bird at the Small Forward, we would still have ISO Joe.
If we had Dennis Rodman on defense, we would still switch everytime.
If we had Rick Mahorn, we still would not know how to execute a pick.
If we had Magic Johnson, we still would walk the ball up.
If we had Wes Unseld, we still would not throw an outlet pass to start the break.
If we had Dennis Rodman to get rebounds, we would still let him stand at the 3 point line.

vava74

November 3rd, 2009
8:15 am

Aldridge is questionable for tonight.

The Blazers have been out-rebounding and out-hustling their opponents which makes it a tough match up for us if we do not come in focused and in a fighting mode.

Hopefully they will also continue to shoot the rock poorly as they have been (.422) and we can get away with a win.

Blake is slow enough for Bibby to keep up with and JT0 could make use of his superior speed against Andre Miller who is also not known to be fast; I hope that we do not use switch defense all the time since I think we can match up favorably here.

JJ – Roy is the key match up and Crawford vs Rudy could be an offensive showdown since neither is a good defender;

Maybe – just maybe – Marvin will wake up since he will be playing closer to his home state that he can get now that the Sonics are gone.

His matchup with Martell and or Travis Outlaw could be a key as well since they seem to be shooting well from 3pt land and we should not allow that to happen.

Josh should be alright if Aldridge does not play. If he does play, he needs to step up his interior defense and his rebounding dramatically in order for us to win.

Al vs Oden is a intriguing match up: Oden has yet to prove that was deserving of his #1 draft position, however, he has a significant size advantage. Hopefully Al will be able to use his superior speed and avoid the elbows. Zaza vs Przybilla should be favourable to Przybilla due to his superior defense if Zaza is not able to start sinking his mid range shots.

Unfortunately I will not be watching the game since here is +7 hour difference in relation to Pacific Time… I already got up at 2.30AM to see us lose against the Lakers and I simply do not have the stamina anymore to repeat this today.

Maybe we need to give some light to Collins today if Oden starts pushing Al around too much. A couple of well placed elbows should do the trick.

However, the right man to do an actual scouting report is nire.

kwooden1

November 3rd, 2009
8:19 am

Undisputed Champ! – if you want open shots for JJ and Bibby you have to start inside and work the ball back out. Horford isn’t going to grow more than another inch, so he’s going to have to learn to score on people taller than him. David West and Boozer do it all the time, and the only way you learn is in real game action. The HAWKS had a terrible 5-10min stretch during that game. It might have been really embarrassing for everyone involved, but it is what it is! If they secure the ball, box-out and play inside-outside they would have at least been in the game until the end. Those types of games are part of the learning process, we’ll get to see if they have learned anything tonight.

Portland might be missing Aldridge tonight, which won’t give Smoove the true competition he needs, but otherwise makes life a little easier. Oden is playing very big right now and is starting to show signs. Portland has a win and loss against Houston, who’s starting center is 6′6″ Chuck Hayes! There’s a lot I can say about that, especially since Chuck starts over ex-HAWK (some what!) Dave Anderson? but I will leave that alone. Houston got there win by having big games from their guards and allowing Roy/Aldridge to score but limiting everyone else. The HAWKS are going to have to defensive rebound well as usual but attack Oden inside. Marvin should be able to get a lot of open looks this game, because Webster and Roy will have to pay alot of attention to JJ. Crawford should also do very well because, Portland doesn’t have anyone on their bench to stay with him. Certainly the HAWKS can lose this game, but if they learn from last night they have a good chance of winning!

GO HAWKS!!!

ILL-logical

November 3rd, 2009
8:59 am

Last nit to pick:
Saying some can’t shoot when their field goal percentage was %49 last season and until saturday,%71 is clearly stating an opinion not supported by fact.What was perhaps implied was that a certain lack of facility for shots longer than x feet.

Annd to suggest that the self same lack of facility prohibits a player from playing small forward ignores the offensive styles of players such as Adrian Dantly, who ammassed a prolific scoring total despite being 6′4″ and operateing almost exclusively in the paint. There have even been players like Tayshun Prince whose small forward role focused primarily on defense.
IMHO, Woodson’s system does not favor any significant offensive participation by the front court in general and the small forward specically. See ,Williams, Marvin et al.

Therefore the discussion may in some ways not matter in the larger scheme of things. And maybe therein lies the root of some of the Hawks woes.

GeeMack

November 3rd, 2009
9:24 am

Vava74, Ken Strickland, Daniel, ILL-Logical

All good post.

Cp

Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Rondo, & Ken Perkins are all around the same age. Our young guys are still developing just like those guys. My point was…the Celtics got better results when they upgraded their talent.

We are asking Woody to go out and beat the elite teams without elite talent. I don’t agree with everything Woody does, however I think the guy has done a very good job with the team he’s been given. This is the 4th best team in the east, and their is only 1 all star on this team.

Truth-Serum

November 3rd, 2009
9:32 am

Gee Mack, I said the same thing repeatedly days ago. I guess that we agree on something.

We are asking Woody to go out and beat the elite teams without elite talent. I don’t agree with everything Woody does, however I think the guy has done a very good job with the team he’s been given. This is the 4th best team in the east, and their is only 1 all star on this team.

The only difference between your statement and mine is I mentioned that JJ is a second tier allstar and not a starter or second rotation allstar. Considering the talent level here its an outstanding job by Woodson. Nice to here another mouth utter it.

Undisputed c

November 3rd, 2009
9:33 am

kwooden1

GeeMack

November 3rd, 2009
9:37 am

ILL-logical

Could that be attributed to the players attitudes than a system? Crawford has a scorers mentality regardless of the system. I see how some of the player are aggressive offensively at home, but extremely passive on the road. What you think?

undisputed Champ!

November 3rd, 2009
9:39 am

kwooden1 No doubt that what you say is the absolute truth! Its hard to run an offense when all of the cylinders arent fuctional. Its impossible to play a half court game without the in and our aspect. In order for that to happen you have to man the post with talent. The point guard position and the Center position are by necessity, natural talent positions rather than learned. Skill with out talent is not as good as talent with skill. You dont think with talent you react and flow.

looking forward to tonights game. Its a long season so im not going to hang my head.

GeeMack

November 3rd, 2009
9:40 am

Truth-Serum

Yeah we do agree sometimes. Lol.

GeeMack

November 3rd, 2009
9:41 am

Truth-Serum

and I agree JJ is a 2nd tier all star.

Grandad

November 3rd, 2009
9:42 am

It’s like BIG RAY said, certain ones, you know who you are, use any excuse to express your dislike for a particular player and blame that player for any and everything that’s perceived wrong with the Hawks

He also said they blame the coach for their peceived wrong. I think he may have been talking about you. It fits your description.

vava74

November 3rd, 2009
9:47 am

ILL-logical,

Josh lacks range to work as a jump shooter. His averages are good when he shoots within the range he his comfortable with (he actually has a kind of sweet stroke around the hole).

Dantley had a very fluid mid-range game with excellent and elegant body control, something which seems to have become out of fashion. Josh does not have the body type to do it. Paul Pierce springs to mind as someone who has that type of mid-range game (amongst all other things he does well on offense).

Tayshaun has a lot better range than Josh and defensively he is more mobile. I don’t think Josh would be able to stand up defensively against the more mobile SF.

The best comparison could be Gerald Wallace, however, Wallace is smaller and also more mobile than Josh. Also, since he is not involved in what could be described as particularly successful bball, I would not call this comparison as very flattering…

BallHawk

November 3rd, 2009
10:12 am

Je Je – Did you really say that Bibby has bigger arms than Al????
Dude, what the hell were you looking at? Horfords arms are huge.

(I did notice that Bibby’s arms looked bigger this year, but Dude…really?)

Once again for all of you who don’t know…the Hawks have gone as far as they can go with Woody at the helm….PERIOD…END OF STORY!!!!

GeeMack

November 3rd, 2009
10:56 am

The Hawks rank fifth in the league in scoring (110.0) behind Phoenix, Philadelphia, Denver and Orlando.

O'Brien

November 3rd, 2009
11:00 am

Look for Andre Miller to back down Teague or Bibby in the post, because Miller has a very good inside game for a PG.

I look for Marvin to hve a good game because he is playing close to home, and that always seems to get him that little extra motivation/aggressiveness.

One good thing for Horford is that Oden’s inside game is not as good as Bynum, so I dont think the Blazers will force feed Oden like the Lakers were doing with Bynum.

hammatime

November 3rd, 2009
11:22 am

Sekou, Did you even watch the game? Yeah Teague played well in the 4th qtr when he entered, but he didn’t come in for Bibby & provide the spark. Zaza came in for Bibby with more 4 minutes left in the 3rd qtr right after Bibby just hit 2 long 3-pointers. At this point, Hawks were only down 12 points to the Lakers, Bibby was gettting hot & more importantly directing the offense & not turning the ball over. After that substitution, we had about 8 turnovers in the remaining 4 minutes in the 3rd qtr. & thats when the lead ballooned to 20+ points. At least get your facts straight when trying to paint the picture that YOU want.

Samuel

November 3rd, 2009
11:29 am

It’s all Woody and Obama’s fault.

hawks_4_life

November 3rd, 2009
11:39 am

Samuel

Obama? Why?

kwooden1

November 3rd, 2009
11:44 am

undisputed Champ!, Horford isn’t as naturally talented as several centers in the league, Bynum being one of them. But as we all agree, he’s a PF and has to play out of position. This will be the HAWKS weakness for most of the year, but tonight they need to show that it won’t keep them from winning the game. Haywood played well at center against the HAWKS but it didn’t stop them from beating Washington. They need to focus on rebounding as a team the entire game. No more two HAWKS standing around while Kobe rebounds the ball right in front of them.

GO HAWKS!!

2 FOR JOHN DREW

November 3rd, 2009
1:19 pm

The HAWKS should wage locker-room bets amongst themselves to provoke good play. There’s nothing better than a little internal competition for the overall good. Michael Jordan & Bulls did it. Jack Tatum &
George Atkinson of the Raiders did it. Josh should bet Marvin a $1,000 for every point he gets taking it
to the hole( and vis versa ) blocks, rebounds, steals, etc.

I’m just saying, it kills me seeing the HAWKS revert back to old BAD habits & as professionals
you have to do whatever, to get to the next level.

2 FOR JOHN DREW

November 3rd, 2009
1:24 pm

And Woody ….. @ least use RandMo/ JCollins for just their 12 fouls !!!!!!!

The morning after

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