The morning after
The Hawks' frustrations were fueled by their own mistakes against the Lakers Sunday night at Staples Center.
LOS ANGELES – It probably feels just as nasty this morning as it did last night, that taste in the Hawks’ beaks after the Lakers kicked dirt all over them.
How a two-point game mushrooms into a 24-point rout in a matter of minutes would normally require CSI-level examination.
But not where the Hawks are concerned. The anatomy of their latest road debacle is similar to so many of its predecessors.
By now you know the routine. The Hawks trade punches, they make a decent game of it until things go slightly awry and the sky starts falling. The fall began with their disastrous third quarter, when the Hawks started handing the ball over to the Lakers like they were ordered to by the LA County Sherriff’s office.
And they wouldn’t stop giving it up. Play after play, they just kept turning it over. Josh Smith got his hands dirty, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford and Zaza Pachulia did, too.
The meltdown on the bench soon followed, with players shouting back and forth about the sloppiness.
The Lakers didn’t need the help. But they were happy to take advantage of the Hawks ineptitude and immaturity.
They piled up 12 fast break points in the third quarter alone, an 18-0 run ensued and the Lakers ended the game a good 20 minutes before the final buzzer sounded.
“We were so sluggish with the basketball, throwing it all over the gym,” Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. “They had a lot to do with it because they got up on us defensively and we went the other way.”
It didn’t help that the Hawks’ momentum early was halted by a head-scratching substitution. Joe Johnson was on a tear in the first few minutes of the game, piling up 18 points on 7-for-8 shooting, when Woodson inexplicably pulled him from the game with 2:39 to play in the quarter. For all the times we’ve moaned and groaned around here about JJ playing too many minutes, this was not the time to interrupt his flow. The playing rotation be darned, let the man shoot until he missed five straight. He stays on the floor until he misses, right?
Not this time.
Lakers star defender Ron Artest deserves a lot of credit for holding Johnson to just one field goal the rest of the way (Kobe Bryant certainly had no luck slowing Johnson down), but in hindsight, that quick and unexpected hook from Woodson seems even more perplexing after the fact.
“I’m not the coach of this team and I don’t decide who goes in and who comes out or when they do it,” a still upset Johnson said after the game about his groove being interrupted. “That’s beside the point. We didn’t fight at all in that third quarter. We just let things get out of hand and didn’t take it on ourselves to man up and defend the way we have to. You saw it, we just let them punch us in the face and we didn’t stand up for each other, we didn’t help each other at all. That can’t happen, not against a good team or any team. That just can’t happen.”
It did, like it has many times in the past for this team.
And the Hawks took yet another shot to their pride and profile on the big stage.
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213 comments Add your comment
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
2:52 pm
Can you imagine if we can pick and roll him and Al?
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
2:56 pm
Sekou also said 2 years ago that the Hawks don’t have a whatzdunit (or something), which is a very physical 2 or 3 who teams fear. It was after we played Sacramento (Artest was on the team) Anyone remember?
Dan
November 2nd, 2009
2:58 pm
jeje,
I’m sure that if Joe would have said “I” then the Hawks would have been given 9 more points and the win last night. Who cares what he says to the press? It does not matter. What matters is what goes on in the locker room. And, from what I can tell, no one on that team has a problem with Joe. Joe has been the leader of the team now for a long time. Saying “me” or “I” or “we” does not change anything.
The season is way too long for people to be going into meltdown mode after the third game. Yes, too many turnovers. But, did you really chalk up the game at the Lakers as a W? C’mon….this team is fine. Dropping a game on the west coast trip is not the end of the world.
KSEE
November 2nd, 2009
3:01 pm
as soon as Al started getting frustrated with the no calls..the whole thing started to collapse. that first half looked so promising tho. oh well on to the next game…lets get a Win hawks!!
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
3:07 pm
The Hawks have plays. They just don’t run them. We run feeble picks and then with 9 seconds on the shot clock, a player finally does something. I even pointed it out to others last night — we wait till 7 seconds on the shot clock to execute
Terrell
November 2nd, 2009
3:12 pm
You guys are so funny. “We need our back ups to play more than 16 minutes a game!!” I knew as soon as Atl lost you all would be complaining about how Woody used his bench “TOO” much!
If you watch the game at all, you saw Horford get fouled 3 times on one play and it wasn’t called. The refs were allowing the Lakers to be overly agressive that quarter and they were. That’s what seperated the teams. When Atl touched Kobe it was a foul but the other way around only happend when the foul was on Ron Artest. If you didn’t watch the whole game you really don’t have anything to stand on to pass you opinion.
I also saw our backups outplay their backups in the 4th quarter, but nobody wants to talk about that. Nobody wants to talk about how Woody left Teague and Crawford on the floor when we were coming back. Everybody wants to get mad because he took JJ out. He did what you all were crying about. He rested JJ and you’re mad. You guys are very fickled fans.
al horford/zaza pachulia
November 2nd, 2009
3:16 pm
MY FAVORITE MARSHMELLOWS
al horford/zaza pachulia
November 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm
MY FAVORITE MARSHMALLOWS
Marvin Williams
November 2nd, 2009
3:18 pm
Coach Woodson,
please trade me I suck
IDIOT CHECK.
November 2nd, 2009
3:21 pm
HEY LETS RUN A PLAY WHERE WE GET A CENTER WHO CAN RUN, JUMP, SHOOT, BLK SHOTS, CREATE HIS OWN SHOTS AND DRAW DEFENDERS. LETS CALL IT THE LEGITIMATE CENTER PLAY. ITS THE ONE WHERE OUR CENTER GETS THE BEST OF THERE CENTER EVERY DAY AND WHO SHOWS UP EVERY DAY.
IDIOT CHECK.
November 2nd, 2009
3:25 pm
YEAH I LIKE THAT PLAY. WE CAN RUN AN INSIDE OUTSIDE PLAY BOOK WITH THAT KIND OF TALENT. ITS HARD TO RUN PLAYS THAT WORK IF YOU DONT HAVE THE TALENT. LET RUN THAT LEGITIMATE CENTER PLAY WHERE WE THROW THE BALL INSIDE AND OUR CENTER WORKS THEIR CENTER AND SCORE AND 1 FOR 3 OR 4 PLAYS THEN WHEN THEY COLLAPSE WE GO BACK OUT SIDE CALL IN WHAT YOU WANT IT WILL WORK AS WILL ALL PLAYS IF YOU MAKE YOUR SHOTS!!@1!
Allen
November 2nd, 2009
3:27 pm
Is it me are does Mike Woodson look like a dumbass everytime they shine a camera on him he doesn’t have a clue what the hell is going on. The past years it wasn’t that High of expectations but this year is alot different he will be exposed and be out of here by the half way mark. Marvin Williams is a joke every season they amp him up as if he made big strides during the offseason bull s>?t I makes me made just seeing him walk he is pure sorry. Joe had it right we are soft including him lets not forget last year playoffs.
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:28 pm
I did not post earlier. Who ever is imitating me, stop it. My mother is in heaven. So please stop it. Ken, protect me.
Jerry
November 2nd, 2009
3:31 pm
My position has not changed since LAST year. FIRE WOODSON
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:31 pm
Allen Its you allen. He looks like a stud to me.
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:32 pm
Allen Its you . He looks like a stud to me.
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:32 pm
Well Sybil, it appears your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Sybil
November 2nd, 2009
3:33 pm
Fuccck you Grandad
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
3:33 pm
GeeMack is right as usual.
KW
November 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm
First thing first the Hawks are having the same problem they had last year the front court did everyone see that Joe Johnson had more rebounds than anyone on the front court for some reason those guys hang out to much on the perimeter they need to change their front court Marvin Willirams need to come of the bench with the second unit Al Horford need to move to power forward and Josh Smith need to be a slashing small forward drill and kick opening the drilling lanes for his team mates. Someone earlier had an interesting question. Why jason Collins is not playing? If the man have anything at all it have toh be better than what ZAZA is doing, Al Horford is just getting killed and Josh Smith just don’t care about rebounding on certain nights check the stats bottom line Mike Woodson need
Grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm
fu_k you sh_t face!
Sybil
November 2nd, 2009
3:35 pm
Oh yeah, well F you fool!
grandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:36 pm
Ok Sybil look, I did not mean it. ?The Devil made me do it. That it Woodson made me do it. Im sorry, will you take me back?
Sybil
November 2nd, 2009
3:37 pm
F U!
theZaZaguy
November 2nd, 2009
3:38 pm
I think Tim Donaghy had a point. The refs were definitely against us. But the sign of a truly good team is to overcome adversity and compete regardless. By getting too frustrated and falling apart, we made it too easy for the refs to affect the game. If we would have hung in and kept our composure, I don’t see how the refs could have continued their horrible behaviour. By falling apart, the refs could just call an honest game the rest of the way once it was basically over and get away with a serious lapse in unfair practices.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm
BONE- I think Woodson does a better than average job. He is not perfect by any measure and I am not sure if he knows this team well enough yet to play to their strenghts all the time. Clearly, this team does not play with heart on the road, we gave them a pass last year, because of the youth element. This year I don’t give them a pass. How much of their lack of maturity and fire on the road is due to Woodson? I don’t know, clearly he is not off the hook there, but it is also on the players. Just like GeeMack said, three years ago Doc Rivers was being boo’d in Boston and about to be run out of town. Now he is some coaching genius? Players play, coaches prepare. Were the Hawks not prepared properly? Maybe. Did the players fold their tents? Definitely. Either way I am not happy. But, let’s be clear the issue on the team is not a lack of an offensive system.
Gandad
November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm
Allen it you buddy. You need glasses.
KW
November 2nd, 2009
3:39 pm
Sorry I didn’t finish my comments Mike Woodson need to make a long overdue decision that should have been made last year changing the front court lineup.
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
3:41 pm
How about we blame it on poor play and resign ourselves to step up our game. Oh that would be too much like right. My bad.
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
3:42 pm
KW- The how do you explain Horford averaging 17 points and 12 boards in the first two games? Was he suddenly “in position” then?
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
3:43 pm
Oh no! I have to agree with undisputed champ…. the ground is getting cold cause h*ll is freezing over. But, man you are right on!
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
3:45 pm
KW I like your thoughts however Id rather let horford come off the bench. He has no offense. Josh plays the pf very well and can score. Horford cannot create his own shots. What do you think of
Crawford pg
jj sg
Evans sf
josh pf
(we get a real center from some where)
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
3:46 pm
Daniel does Horford really have offensive talent?
kwooden1
November 2nd, 2009
3:49 pm
I just watched most of the 3rd quarter again on NBA Broadband league pass. They were down 4 with about 6mins left in the 3rd, clearly in the game. Then the sequence where JSmoove rebounds the ball, starts the break and Fisher steals the ball occurred. They were down 6 at that point and Marvin then gets an open look from 3 and misses. If that shot goes down their only down 3. The HAWKS later go down 10 with about 3mins left, still in the game. The collapse starts at this point, with several turnovers and missed rebound opportunities. At this point the HAWKS need to do a better job of executing their offensive, by getting the ball inside to Horford. Horford didn’t have a lot of opportunities in the paint, and that is something that has to change. I know that Byman was playing well, but that shouldn’t stop the HAWKS from attacking inside. JSmoove also needs to starting working inside during those times in the game.
The HAWKS really have to concentrate on securing defensive rebounds, by putting a body on guys and getting stronger with the ball. Horford and JSmoove are undersized when it comes to playing the Lakers but a lot of times they need to box-out or just put a body on someone.
GO HAWKS!!
Undisputed Champ!
November 2nd, 2009
3:54 pm
kwooden1 In the game prior Horford had 11 shots and made four. If he had made all those shots hed would have had a great game. 4 of 11 wont get it. He has to get open too. Bynum was on him like stink on sh!t. To get the ball you have to get open and then you have to finish when you get your chance. The best offensive play is any play where you put the ball in the whole. Lets run the put the ball in the basket play… how about that play?
richbrave
November 2nd, 2009
4:19 pm
Ouch. If my HAWKS got man-handled like that, what’ll happen when the D.C. home-boys go west? Too grim to contemplate.
hawks_4_life
November 2nd, 2009
4:21 pm
Im 4 games back in fantasy bball
Big Ray
November 2nd, 2009
4:30 pm
Gotta love the blog after a loss.
Some people will correctly identify what went wrong and pull no punches, but many more will use the loss as an opportunity to bolster their argument against whichever player (or coach) is their favorite to hate on.
Others will claim hate for almost the entire team, but won’t go away (make sense to you?). In the end, it turns into MannyT’s coined term, “canniblogging.” Ain’t blogging fun?
I have to admit, I saw one post today on a blog that was one of the most sophisticated versions of an obvious attempt to blame a single player for a loss, that I’ve ever seen. Made the author’s intent as transparent as clean glass. Heh…..
Big Ray
November 2nd, 2009
4:31 pm
GREAT post by DANIEL at 3:39 p.m.
O'Brien
November 2nd, 2009
4:36 pm
In my opinion, with the comments JJ has made (prior to the season, and after the game last night), I wonder if in the back of his mind, he is seriously contemplating leaving the Hawks at the end of the season.
Is it that he wanted more money than the 4 years, $60 mil? Or is that he’s not sure he wants to be back with the Hawks next year, because he wants to win a title (be a Robin instead of having to be our Batman) and the Hawks are too inconsistent and soft mentally.
JeJe
November 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm
21 Questions:
1) Why is Marvin starting? HE IS NOT WORTHY TO START
2) Why does Woodson not have any offensive plays? The whole scheme is one-on-one with feeble picks set
3) Why is Horford so in love with his fadeaway jumper which never goes in?
4) Why doesn’t Josh Smith realize he is so effective this year when he DRIVES THE LANE and uses DECISION MAKING SKILLS?
5) Why are there only 3 backup guards/wings? How the hell do you take the starters out and have the remaining guards/wings in?
6) What is the point of getting Othello Hunter over another wing like Stackhouse? It’s obvious we don’t need 2 backup bigs who never play (Othello and RandMo)
7) When is this team gonna start winning on the road? We haven’t won a meaningful road game since almost January 2009
Why is Bibby bigger than all our bigs?
9) Why are JJ and Evans also bigger than our bigs? Joe Smith and Horford look almost anorexic
10) Why is Joe Smith’s defense so pedestrian?
11) Why can ZaZa NOT make a layup?
12) How the hell is Marvin Williams making 7.5 million a year for us? 6 points last night…People act like he had a bad game — um no, he does this every night
13) Why is our playcalling so bad?
14) Why is JJ never going to be a leader for this team? He never takes responsibility for everything and says “we” rather than “I”
15) Can the owners please let JJ go after this year and throw all their “money” at Dwyane Wade?
16) Why will Woodson NOT alter the starting lineup? He acts like we only are allowed to have 1 lineup. Freaking start Crawford over Duck. My Goodness — Williams is the worst player in our rotation
17) Why do we have 3 frontcourt starters who are all the exact same size? It would be great if we could get rid of Duck for a Marc Gasol
18) Why are the Hawks so content with having this same core? Can we please make a move to get rid of the waste (Marvin) so we can get another wing
19) Why can’t this team win on the road? It could get ugly
20) Why does this team have no leader?
21) Why is Bibby so damn overweight-looking? He does not realize that at his age he needs to be thinner so he can be more mobile and not so bow-legged-looking
BBgenie
November 2nd, 2009
4:59 pm
Damm Hawks Fans! Stop crying! Did you think we would be 82-0????? We lost one game to the Defending NBA Champs by 10. Wow. I Blame the Frontcourt players!!! No one showed up, period. Al, Smooth,Marvin or ZaZa. Let’s see what happens vs Portland, will we bounce back? or will we compete and take care of our business?? It’s a very long season. It’s good that the players are talking, and shouting about DEFENSE!!! It shows that they care about their Defensive effort!!! Hawks in 7!!!!!
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009
5:03 pm
appreciate it Ray. See y’all later.
The Flash
November 2nd, 2009
5:06 pm
I didn’t see the game. Hey, it never stopped me before. At the beginning of games in the beginning of the season shots can be had, by anyone. I am not in the abstract hatin on Woody for taking JJ out if he was shooting lights out in the first quarter.
For this team to compete with any formidable team, the offense in the half court must flow. If you can’t get it working about teams who predictably can and will up the intensity on the defensive end as the game progresses, you are in trouble. JJ’s shooting another 7 for 8 in the rest of the first quarter and into the second would not have changed that.
Either this team “gets” that they need to establish an offense that produces shots for everyone or it doesn’t. If JJ is ticked when he gets taken out just because he was hot and wants to shoot some more, he is not getting it, and, if he is not getting it, no one else on this team possibly can.
You guys and Sekou are simply enablers. My premise from early, early on (you think Thinkingman) is that JJ cannot catch the ball and see the efficacy of getting rid of it to change the point of attack, to then clear space for someone else, aka MW, so he can go (everyone says that want to see him do that) without running into the double team that JJ routinely commands. He CANNOT do it.
Others have argued with that. They have said from day one that JJ held it whenever he caught it because there were no other scoring options. I always thought that that was a bunch of bull. I did think that Woody thought that that was true, however, and made JJ into Oscar Robinson, who either shot it or got an assist or gave it up and got it again and either shot it or got an assist, ad nausium. JJ ain’t Oscar and Oscar was boring in any case, if you ask me.
Now, my belief is that Woody had to go because whenever any of the old guard, and there are still a critical mass of them around, see Woody, no matter what he says, they see the portfollio that he embewed JJ with from the beginning.
JJ ain’t giving up being the MAN which in his perspective means holding the thing and creating with it and never just giving it up in the flow of things, and creating flow for others without the ball. If Woody now is finally asking for him to do that, it is a message that he can not effectively give.
Until the talking heads and writing heads start calling JJ as a remake of dozens of other scorers who were impediments to good offense from their teammates, maybe I went a little too far labeling Oscar as one of them, take the other Robinson, I’m forgetting his first name, nothing will change. If the heads start labeling JJ what he is, a uni-dimensional player who looks first and foremost for himself, not because he is selfish, just because that is what he sees, the impetous for change will not be there. Then, the worst thing the Hawks management could do, aside from resigning Woody, would be to resign JJ.
But then again, I wouldn’t have signed him in the first place, not for the price in terms of personnel he cost, but that is another story that no one wants to repeat, including even me.
niremetal
November 2nd, 2009
5:19 pm
Daniel, replied to your 3:39 on the other blog
Iblameurparents
November 2nd, 2009
5:35 pm
I see why Joe did not take the extension during the off season. He knows that either 1.) this team will not take the next step as long as Woody is at the helm 2.) As long as Woody is here Josh will continue to have delusions of being a point forward and play this team out of contention. JS is either awfully good or awfully bad there is no middle ground with him. Any coach that would allow him to stand on the perimeter and hoist wide open fall away jumpers is not a coach at all but an interim to a real coach. Where has Marvin’s game gone? Not that he was ever a high calibre player but he was at least serviceable. He patted Artest on the butt so many times, showing so much respect that I thought he was playing in a charity game or something. As deep as LA’s bigs were getting into the paint off transition, I certainly thought Jason Collins could have given us a few minutes and/or a few fouls.
I know this is only the 3rd game but we should be beyond these gaffes, there remains no movement on offense, far too many jumpers and no offensive rebounds. This is primarily due to the fact that the offense pulls everyone away from the lane with sporadic pick and rolls primarily for Bibby, everyone else must create their own shot via the dribble. The problem with that is only JJ, Bibby, Crawford and perhaps Teague (even though he looked a little shaky early in the game) can go off the dribble which means you are kicking out to JS, Marvin and AH et al…forget about it!
Another theory is that JJ is gone anyway so the team is looking more to Crawford to take over. Anyway you slice it not even a middle level coach would take JJ out of the game when he is on a roll like he was last night. Truth hurts!
jerrywest
November 2nd, 2009
6:07 pm
Sekou,
1 question:
Why doesn’t Woody smack Josh with a baseball bat every time he shoots from 10+ feet.
Clyde
November 2nd, 2009
6:20 pm
This is the bad part about this situation. Zaza, Marvin and Bibby have played the same way since they have gotten here. They show flashes of greatness but when it comes to big games they disappear. YET this summer they got new contracts. What’s wrong with this picture. SMH
Jondeal
November 2nd, 2009
6:34 pm
We all know why Sund has not renewed woodsons’s contract. JJ is on a roll, pull him,great coaching!
Put the damn ball in the basket
November 2nd, 2009
6:58 pm
HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED THAT THE TEAM THAT PUTS THE BALL IN THE BASKET MOST….WINS? I KNOW THAT ITS A COMPLICATED CONCEPT. HISTORY HAS THIS AS A RECORD THAT HAS NEVER FAILED. THE TEAM THAT PUTS THE BALL IN THE HOLE THE MOST WINS. HUMMM
MAKE YOUR SHOTS. JUST WIN BABY’
HORFORD LOVES THE FALL AWAY SHOT BECAUSE HES GETTING PUSHED OFF THE BLOCK, CAN SHOOT OVER THE BIG GUYS AND SO HE HAS NO CHOICE,
I AGREE WITH THE HATERS, WOODSON NEEDS TO MAKE HIS SHOTS IN ORDER FOR THE HAWKS TO WIN. YOU CANT WIN IF YOU DONT MAKE YOUR SHOTS. MY FAVORITE PLAY IS THE ONE WHERE THE GUY PUTS THE BALL IN THE BASKET. ITS A GREAT PLAY BUT CLEARLY EVERY ONE CAN T DO IT.