Depth revealed (sort of)?

Did you see enough of Hawks rookie point guard Jeff Teague in the season opener? Hawks coach Mike Woodson's rotation was 10-deep but as expected, the minutes were lopsided in favor of the starters.

Did you see enough of Hawks rookie point guard Jeff Teague in the season opener? Hawks coach Mike Woodson's rotation was 10-deep but as expected, the minutes were lopsided in favor of the starters.

HAWKSVILLE – Did you see enough of Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith Wednesday night?

How about Jeff Teague and Mo Evans?

Zaza Pachulia and Jason Collins?

I didn’t think so.

Sure, the Hawks did what they had to do in dispatching the Indiana Pacers in their season opener. But I expected more, namely in minutes for the reserves.

We’ve heard for weeks about all this improved depth and how much deeper this team is going to be this season. We saw it in the preseason.

But it wasn’t on display against the Pacers.

Sure, everyone played a minimum of 10 minutes and no one played more than 40 (though Joe Johnson was knocking on the door at 39:23). And they did win the game doing it this way.

But 13 minutes and 36 seconds for Crawford and 10:48 for Smith seems a bit light to me, particularly in a game where the Hawks needed every bit of firepower they could muster to hold of the scrappy Pacers.

“I feel like we kind of succumbed to the way they wanted to play and to the rotation they wanted us to use instead of milking that newly formed bench we brought in here,” said Mo Evans, who made the most of his limited time, piling p 12 points in just 15 minutes. “We’ve got to learn how to trust our second unit as well to go out there and play. We’ve got a lot of talent over there and I think we got a little nervous because they were out there making shots and then we had to extend our starters’ minutes a little longer than we probably wanted. That’s not going to work during those stretches when we have four games in five or six nights.”

Stretches like the one the Hawks will face this weekend with Washington and into the middle of next week’s Western Conference road swing.

Hawks coach Mike Woodson took several questions about his playing rotation after the game – in his defense he did play 10 men in the third quarter, something he never did last season.

“We’re all trying to get used to one another,” he said. “They’re especially trying to get used to me and what I’m expecting when they’re out on the floor. Overall, I thought it was a great effort on everybody’s part, and we were able to secure the win. And that’s what’s most important.”

THE CLOSER

Mike Bibby didn’t crank his offense up until late against the Pacers, scoring eight of his 10 points in the fourth quarter. It’s a new role for the Hawks’ veteran point guard, who is adjusting to so many different offensive options that have either matured or been added since last season.

“I’m going to be a little bit more aggressive,” Bibby said laughing. “Hey, it’s my 12th year. I still get first game jitters.”

He didn’t flinch in the fourth quarter, though, showing that he’s always willing to take and make big shots with the game on the line.

His 3-pointer with the Hawks trailing 101-100 with 8:05 to play put them ahead to stay and his running jumper with 7:28 left gave the Hawks another quick jolt. His 3-pointer with 2:43 left gave the Hawks a 115-105 lead and a little insurance.

But his best work might have been done in the facilitation of the Hawks’ offense all night.

Bibby was efficient and allowed his teammates to make plays of their own (his willingness to keep everyone in a good flow is easily one of his most underrated qualities).

“Mike was doing a great job of getting the ball in the right spots and I was just shooting with confidence,” Al Horford said after his 24-point, 16-rebound effort.

HARD TO MISS

If Johnson’s confidence in his teammates wasn’t sky-high before Wednesday’s game it is now.

After watching Horford and Josh Smith tote the load on both ends of the floor early, he was full of praise after the game.

“I know those guys worked on their games over the summer and you can tell,” he said. “I know it’s the first game, but you can tell they’ve been working. I’m glad they came back with the mindset that they have and that’s what it’s going to take to get us over the top.”

It worked against the Pacers. While many of the Hawks’ looked rattled early as the Pacers piled up the points, Smith and Horford were steadying forces.

“For it to be the first game, you have so many jitters and you’re so anxious to get out there and play,” Johnson said. “I just really wanted to get into the flow of the game early. But it doesn’t always work that way, so I just tried to pick my spots. Al and Josh played great tonight. I thought they were the two guys that got us over the hump.”

The proof was in the Hawks scoring edge inside. They pounded the Pacers 54-38 in the paint.

ROOKIE DEBUT

Another guy that didn’t seem at all fazed by the moment was Teague, the rookie point guard. He certainly wasn’t shy (he took for more shots than Crawford and finished with five points, four assists and three rebounds).

“He looked comfortable out there,” Marvin Williams said. “I like that about him. He’s fearless.”

THE BIG FINISH

Whatever complaints you want to make about the Hawks’ defensive effort through the first three quarters is valid. The fourth quarter, however, was another story.

They limited the Pacers to a 5-for-15 shooting effort (33 percent) and forced six turnovers, allowing just 15 points in the game’s final stanza.

“They’re a tough team from an offensive standpoint,” Woodson said. “They keep you on your heels by pushing the ball constantly and if you’re not back and matching up with their 3-point shooters, they’re capable of making shots like they did tonight. But I thought that fourth quarter, when we really had to nail it down defensively; guys stepped up and made the plays they had to make.”

192 comments Add your comment

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
12:09 am

Mystikal

October 29th, 2009
12:21 am

I agree I think the minutes still could have been dispersed better. I acknowledge it was only the first game, but we were expecting this big change. It defeats the purpose of having a ten deep roster not to use it. I think it makes it easier for other teams to key on JJ when you play him 40+ min. It sends the impression that we are still live or die by JJ and other teams just key on him. I’d like to see Crawford and Teague at least get 18 and 15 min respectively. I didn’t get to see the game but am very happy to hear Horford got all the touches he did, and look what happened.. an impressive double-double. It’s only going to get harder from here though, so we need to be adjusting like now!

Mystikal

October 29th, 2009
12:22 am

Oh yeah, second!

Mike is back

October 29th, 2009
12:24 am

Ariose, you must got some metaphysical thing going…I was about to be first then browser shut down…great win…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mystikal

October 29th, 2009
12:27 am

I really see there are tiers in the league now. That top tier has been fonded over the past couple weeks (Lakers, spurs, Celtics, Magic, and not sure if Cavs deserve to be there yet). The hawks are in the next tier and not sure as of yet how close they are to the top. They let a sub-par Indiana squad stay in the game longer than they should have. It is opening night though and they played well overall. They have many new pieces and are still feeling each other out. I’m sure they’ll continue to get better and hopefully Woody will spread the wealth with the minutes.

i_am_soulstar

October 29th, 2009
12:55 am

i think Woody did as well as expected with divying out minutes.. and he’ll get better as the season continues (i pray)

Wabe

October 29th, 2009
1:02 am

Offensively, I loved the mixture of contributions from our Hawks. I was a bit surprised to see Crawford only log about 14 minutes. Think he’ll end up playing his way into a bigger role as the season gets going. Down low, I think Woody simply went with the hot hand tonite. Horford played a solid game – and it’s really gonna end up being a fight for minutes between Pachulia/Joe Smith/Collins this season.

Wasn’t as thrilled with our defensive effort tonite. But we kinda picked things up in the 4th quarter when we needed to. We’ll see how things go on this end as the season goes along.

On another note, I’m watching this Denver/Utah game and TY LAWSON IS A BEAST! The guy is proving he’s the most NBA ready PG coming out of this years draft. You’d expect that though seeing he played 4 years at UNC.

northcyde

October 29th, 2009
1:10 am

The minute the Hawks lose a close game, with JJ only playing 31 minutes in the game, people will have a fit. Like Woody said . . he’s not going to sacrifice games just to get guys minutes.

Good job Hawks, and good job Woody. Can’t get into a shootout like that against the Wizards though.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2009
1:13 am

I’m not going to trip too hard about the minutes, now that I think about it. Woody is putting his toe in the water to see how cold it is. I’ll say this much: in years past, he wouldn’t even walk near the pool.

Now if this is how it looks 10 games later, that’s a different story. By then it should be obvious. One thing to remember is that sometimes you just have to play it out. But I already know the answer to that: Woody is going to do whatever he thinks it will take to win the game.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2009
1:15 am

Northcyde,

That’s probably true, LOL! On the flip side of the coin, if this team doesn’t improve defensively, that comes back to Woody. I know it’s the players who perform on the court. But if he’s preaching defense, and they aren’t listening….then what are they also not listening to?

The Truth

October 29th, 2009
1:32 am

Sekou
This comment: But 13 minutes and 36 seconds for Crawford and 10:48 for Smith seems a bit light to me, particularly in a game where the Hawks needed every bit of firepower they could muster to hold of the scrappy Pacers.

Woody went with the offense producers and better defenders. Crawford didn’t look comfortable to me. He is playing somewhat passive. This game was no gimme either. It went down to late in the 4th before it was decided. It seems Crawford is still searching for his offense game with this team. It’s early in the season but he hasn’t found it yet. Woody is going to win by any means necessary.

Northcyde is LAME

October 29th, 2009
1:42 am

You are such a lamo apologist Northcyde. Please spare us. To think I actually thought you knew something because you were one of three regular posters on ESPN.com before I knew about the ‘Squawk.

Woody is ALREADY mismanaging our bench and I have little doubts he will continue to run Joe into the ground….as he has every season. First it was because he “had to secure a playoff spot”. Last year we just had to get that “home court advantage” (I guess?). This year I guess Woody is already trying to save his job?

We shouldn’t have to play JJ more minutes than LeBron, Kobe, CP3, Wade and EVERYONE ELSE to win games! Period.

rms

October 29th, 2009
1:59 am

I dont think it was the Hawks defense that slowed the Pacers down in the fourth quarter it was the Pacers giving the ball away and their bad shot selection and just flat out missing shots. Earlier in the game they were nailing three-pointers and attacking the basket. Then at the end they just got sloppy.

neshield

October 29th, 2009
2:16 am

Great win HAWKS!!! I think Horford and J- Smoov are the keys to this season. If they continue to play well then teams can’t just key on J. Johnson. Also when we needed to slow down Granger it was good to see Joe step up to the plate and play him tight.

keno

October 29th, 2009
2:46 am

Did Crawford have opening night jitters? He had more fouls than shot attempts and seemed to be a little slow on the defensive rotation. Did Woody bench him near the end of the 3rd quarter? He never returned to the game. Joe finished out the 3rd and played all of the fourth. That would explain the 39 minutes. I suppose if Crawford hadn’t gotten that 4th foul, Joe would have entered the game in the fourth the same time as Granger. Just a thought.

Ramon

October 29th, 2009
4:36 am

I don’t know if people is noticing this, but Josh Smith is EVERYWHERE now! His agent/marketing consultant has to be happy with whats been taking place the last 3-4 months. I really feel the practices with the US team was underrated for Josh’s game and popularity.

Also although he may be opposed to it, if Lebron enters the dunk contest, I would love to see Josh take him on (especially the way he’s been jumping now that he’s lost a few pounds).
SEKOU is there anyway you could find out if Josh will consider facing Lebron? I’m sure Adidas will love it also lol.

Ramon

October 29th, 2009
4:39 am

The bench couldn’t maintain the lead. I agree with North, if the bench players get 19 min, and the Hawks lose the game the atmosphere would be totally different. Kobe and Roy got 38 minutes a piece in their games. Lebron got even more while playing 3 positions at one time (as someone eluded to earlier). I don’t want to see this happen every single night. But the first game of the season, with the adrenaline going and how long it took Joe to find a rhythm, 39 minutes isn’t so bad. I always believe 35+ minutes in an up and down game is a lot different than those amount of minutes in the old school Knicks type of game.

Coach D

October 29th, 2009
5:15 am

CHILL! The Hawks won. Woody played Joe too much, but one cannot judge a season by one 1/82 of a sample! IF Joe plays more than 38 or so minutes a game on average by the end of the year, Woody needs to go. I agree wholeheartedly with the assessment about Joe not playing more than the other star shooting guards. The reality of the matter is that some scouts have said JJ is the third shooting guard they’d take behind Bryant and Kobe…. So it would probably be tough for any of us to sit him on the bench for a long time if we were the coach as well.
Washington is going to be a good measuring stick come Friday. They beat the Mavericks on Tuesday. FLY HAWKS, FLY!

The ONLY Hawaiian Hawk Fan

October 29th, 2009
5:31 am

The starters spent most of the 3rd Q. that the 2nd unit gave right back quickly. Maybe by Dec. or Jan. we might get our 2nd unit clicking on all cylinders but tonight they weren’t. No biggie. No one got hurt and at least we know that we can make big adjustments in the middle of the game. Smoove was great on D and Horford was a beast. The NBA is lucky that this guy ain’t 7′1″. I would love to see Mo Evans get more minutes. That guys shot is ON.

vava74

October 29th, 2009
6:29 am

It is crucial that we start the season strong.

For that Woody needs to keep the rotation tight, playoff type, for at least the first 10 games so we can have a nice head start.

The last thing we need is to experiment too much early and be stranded in the middle of the Philly, Chicago, Indiana teams battling for the #5 or #6 seeds… We need to establish early that the #4 seed is already ours, hands down, and that we are ready to challenge the #3 spot.

Then we can slowing expand the rotation so we can get to the half way point with a consistent 10 man rotation and with JJ lodging 35/37 minutes, sacrificing, if necessary a win here and there in order to gain at the end.

If we manage to come out of the 3 game west trip 4-1 with JJ playing an average of 39 minutes we should be happy instead of complaining about the rotation.

vava74

October 29th, 2009
6:38 am

Also, I think that JJ was fundamental on the floor to crank up the defense and slow down Granger.

Did anyone really want to see Crawford and Teague on the floor with the game on the line?

Or was it more important to get us the 1-0 start we all wished for?

Indiana is clearly a sub-par ball club and our defense was awful for most of the game and apart from Horford, our rebounding effort pathetic.

This was not a good omen since this was exactly the type of sloppy play that made us lose like with did with Orlando. The difference was the opponents’ quality.

Samuel

October 29th, 2009
6:43 am

To hel_ with minutes. “Just win Baby”.

some sense

October 29th, 2009
7:19 am

Why no box score???

roan st

October 29th, 2009
8:38 am

Woody only has a one year deal. He will use this bench or be gone at seasons end. I don’t think Sund wants to see his offseason work go to waste.

I know the Hawks won the game last night but its disturbing to me that our opponent had to turn it over 25 times in order for us to do so. What happens last night if the pacers take better care of the ball?

roan st

October 29th, 2009
8:38 am

Woody only has a one year deal. He will use this bench or be gone at seasons end. I don’t think Sund wants to see his offseason work go to waste.

I know the Hawks won the game last night but its disturbing to me that our opponent had to turn it over 25 times in order for us to do so. What happens last night if the pacers take better care of the ball?

GeeMack

October 29th, 2009
8:41 am

Nice start to the season. We need to improve defensively. This was not a top tier team and they scored 109 points . We should be one of the best defensive teams in the league this year. That’s what’s gone keep us in front of Washinton and Miami.

O'Brien

October 29th, 2009
8:47 am

Although I didnt like the way minutes were dispersed (39:23 for Joe), it is only game 1. However, against the Wizards on Friday, and then a West Coast Trip after that, I hope Woody does a better job of resting Joe on Friday night.

And the bench needs to get the minutes at home to get comfortable for when they go on the road. Kenny Smith always says, bench players look real good when they play at home. Crawford needs the minutes these first 2 games to get a rhythm going.

A Couple rookie debuts last night. Ty Lawson had 17pts in 26 minutes, and DeJuan Blair had 14pts, 11 rebs. This is going to be a great NBA season.

JeJe

October 29th, 2009
8:53 am

Just because the bench didn’t keep the lead, that doesn’t mean MARVIN has to play huge minutes in the 4th. Keep Crawford in and utilize a major scoring option — Not Marvin

Dekaturkingz

October 29th, 2009
9:06 am

Nookah

October 29th, 2009
9:08 am

Nice start. I’ll take 1-0 anyday. I a’int complainin’. As someone mentioned earlier, we can’t judge Woody off 1 game. Although I know humans are basically creatures of habit. Perhaps if we had put away Indiana earlier, JJ would have sat some more. But those are the shakes and we have to give Indiana some credit. I know Woody wanted to have a winning start on the home floor and don’t be mistaken he will do everything to go 2-0 vs. the Wiz. So if he has to play JJ 40+ minutes (God forbid), vs. them he will.

I am not worried about Teague. Young fella will adjust as time goes by. I can well imagine he was a little nervous last night. He will soon be all right. I hope this is the Horford we will be seeing all season and if so, watch out Eastern Conference, you in big trouble!!! Marvin had a nice solid game. That jumper is looking decent to start the season.

My hope however, is that we step up the defensive game because that will certainly contribute to less minutes for JJ as we will be forcing turnovers and capitalizing on them. Lokking forward to the Wiz and then we’ll see how we perform on the road. Oh I would be remiss if I did not mention Josh Smith, great game and he had 8 assists!!! That augers well for the future!!!

Go Hawks!!!

Mike N.

October 29th, 2009
9:09 am

Woody will always have Marvin in during crunch time. He was a #2 pick and Woody was part of that selection…he is going to make sure he gives him every opportunity to shine. Marvin looked just liked last season…can’t take the ball strong to the hoop, standing around on offense and only 8 shot attempts. With his jump shot and ability to draw fouls you can not have 8 shot attempts in 32 minutes…especially when the guy you are guarding scorches you. I am a Marvin supporter and am waiting for it to happen but maybe it just never will. He should be an 18 point scorer…I will give it the first 10 games before completely writing him off as a serious threat to opponents.

tidog

October 29th, 2009
9:11 am

Here we go again. Too many minutes for the starters. Take a look at Popovich and the way he divided players minutes last night. 9 to 10 players playing 20 plus minutes. No one played over 30 mins. C’mon coach get this thing right at the onset of the season.

G-Money

October 29th, 2009
9:40 am

The first objective in any sporting event is to win. You do not disperse minutes because it appears fashionable. Minutes are earned in practices and actual games. The Hawks have 81 remaining games, so individuals have opportunities to earn minutes. Every team in the league plays its stars an inordinate amount of minutes, especially in close games. Had we seen bench development, and a more equal disbursement of minutes accompanied by a loss, then everyone would be questioning Woodson’s substitution patterns. We need to give this team some actual games before we make presumptions for the entire year.

bigdave

October 29th, 2009
9:52 am

“If Johnson’s confidence in his teammates wasn’t sky-high before Wednesday’s game it is now.”

i hope it is… there were possessions last night where Joe didnt touch or ask for the ball and when scored. he watched Josh work, Al work, and for a moment there Marvin became aggressive. though i think they got away from him while he was the hot man…

MAD-DONNA

October 29th, 2009
10:14 am

Glad for the win, but I don’t recall seeing any designed plays.

MBZ

October 29th, 2009
10:16 am

Woodson has said that he wants Crawford to lead the league in points off the bench. My fear is that we will see a lot of iso-crawford instead of moving the ball and having people come off screens. Our second unit is built for run and gun. Both crawford and teague’s first priority on offense should be getting to the rim and getting the other team in foul trouble. Teams cant match up with their quickness. We’ll see how they adjust.

JM

October 29th, 2009
10:25 am

Only the first game but if Smoove and Big Al can work like this all season, Hawks will do very well. Could have seen a little more Crawford though, especially the line up with JJ at the 3.

Did anyone notice Josh lead that break by pointing JJ to pass to Bibby instead, then Bibby hit Josh. Great play.

MAD-DONNA

October 29th, 2009
10:42 am

I will always hope that the Hawks do well, but I will be glad to see Woodson go! He has absolutely no managerial skills!

theZaZaguy

October 29th, 2009
10:46 am

Counting minutes is over-rated. It’s also intensity of the minutes. Joe really didn’t seem tired at all. In the first half, they were cruising on defense and Joe pretty much let Al and Josh take over down low. Marvin also took most of his shots in the first half. Joe was well rested to turn it up a notch in the end because walking up and down the court and passing the ball a few times really isn’t that tiring.

richbrave

October 29th, 2009
10:48 am

Finally saw the stat line for the MAVS/WIZ game. First game blues as to shooting on both sides except for FOYE and BLATCHE (both 8-14). WIZ rebounded better (54-48), dimes better (19-16), many more fouls (29-20). Free throws excellent both ways. Three point shots horrendous on both sides, but MILLER was 2-3 and dropped them when it counted. ARENAS got most of his points (29) at the rim and the foul line, but make no mistake, he’s back. Points-wise same with FOYE. Drive into the middle and shoot a ten-fifteen footer, although he made one with a foot on the line and was 1-3 beyond three. PERIMETER DEFENSE will win this game for the HAWKS. If the WIZ can breakdown the outside defense, and they drive or shoot inside, the HAWKS are going to have to work to win. Frustrate FLIP’s Plan A, and this game’s a W for the home team because the ‘ZARDS haven’t practiced enough without JAMISON to have a solid Plan B yet.

doc

October 29th, 2009
10:48 am

ho-hum, it was the pacers. see what we got at the ten game mark.

richbrave

October 29th, 2009
11:07 am

hey doc:

Ready for friday night?

Melvin

October 29th, 2009
11:19 am

doc,

you are short on words this morning. i was expecting your report on the game last nite from the luxury seats.

ant banks

October 29th, 2009
11:21 am

DAM FOLKS!! IT’S JUS’ THE FIRST GAME!! DID YOU REALLY EXPECT WOODY TO PLAY HIS STARTERS WHO HAVE BAILED HIM OUT FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS TO ONLY PLAY 32 OR FEWER MINUTES??

I CAN SEE IF WE ARE IN FEBRUARY. GIVE HIM A BREAK!! I THOUGHT THAT HE GAVE THE BENCH A DECENT AMOUNT OF TIME TO SEE HOW THEY REACTED.

ant banks

October 29th, 2009
11:25 am

DOC,

i am wit’ you. these same people will be blastin’ them if we go 2-8.

Rufus1

October 29th, 2009
11:46 am

Cleveland FANS

They are about to jump off a bidge…HA

If Al and Josh play this well all year we will ATLEAST WIN THE 3RD SEED. We are deep, atheletic and getting BETTER.

DW

October 29th, 2009
11:48 am

Only one game, but… did we get Jamal only to play him 10 minutes? Seemed a little light to me. He DID have some foul trouble, but who cares? Use him up.

newkid

October 29th, 2009
12:14 pm

richbrave, saw your Wizards Tuesday night; very impressed. If health doesn’t become an issue (see Jamison), you may have reason to gloat come the 2nd half. Foye, Miller, and Oberto appear to be quite good additions. Agent 0, for at least one game, looks to be up to his old standard; that’s trouble for many of the league’s guards. Looking forward to Hawks vs Wizards battles this campaign.

richbrave

October 29th, 2009
12:17 pm

newkid:

Me too. WIZARDS are my home=team, but HAWKS are a great acquired taste. Post you up after the game friday night. LATER.

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
12:21 pm

I’m not going to complain about the mins each player got. It’s foolish to expect Woodson, or any HC, to coach a perfect gm, especially the 1st gm of the season. Woodson played 10 players last night a minimum of 10MPG and got excellent overall production from them all. I saw what I wanted to see and that was improvement from both he and his OFF. What I’m waiting to see now is if we’ll build upon what we did last night, or revert back to what used to be as soon as we hit a rough patch, like our upcoming West coast road trip.

When we have excellent player and ball movement, like we had last night, it makes it much easier for Horford and Smoove to duplicate last nights performance. Also, we saw that being what some consider undersized didn’t prevent Horford from handing the Pacers 7′2″ 278lb RHibbet and 6′11″ 250lb JFoster their lunch.

doc

October 29th, 2009
12:35 pm

melvin sent my son with a friend last night. got to be ready for the bit games.

may send daughter to fridays game. tix on sale right now.

not going to be there richie, got some other more important things to attend to so i will miss the wiz. your guys better not be that good.

Big Ump

October 29th, 2009
12:45 pm

Ken

Great Post at 12:21 pm

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
12:45 pm

Ken Strickland

October 28th, 2009
11:57 am

I’M DEFINITELY BOTH READY AND EXCITED ABOUT TONIGHTS OPENING GM!!! Starting tonight, all of the things that’s been said about the Hawks and MWoodson, both good and bad, will playout. I JUST WANT TO SAY GOOD LUCK TO BOTH HC MIKE WOODSON AND ALL OF THE HAWKS THIS SEASON. I hope you and the Hawks make liers out of all that have voiced doubts about you and the team, including me. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT THAT ITS HARD TO CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE A LIAR, KEN, WITH MALICE INTENT.WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. IT IS NICE TO HEAR ANYTHING POSITIVE COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH! FOR THAT I APPLAUD YOU, IM SURE THAT WAS QUITE CHALLENGING. GOOD JOB!
NOT THAT IT’S HARD TO CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE A LIAR, KEN, WITH MALICE INTENT.WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. IT IS NICE TO HEAR ANYTHING POSITIVE COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH! FOR THAT I APPLAUD YOU, IM SURE THAT WAS QUITE CHALLENGING FOR YOU. GOOD JOB!
I EXTEND MY HAND IN A OFFER OF TRUCE, LET’S AGREE TO LET THE SEASON PLAY OUT BEFORE FINALIZE OUR CRITIQUES. LET’S LET THE SEASON PLAY OUT AND SHARE COMMENTS POSTFACIOUSLY.

Just a reminder…..

Monitoring the voice of ignorance

October 27th, 2009
8:39 pm

“When you have no inside game you have no choice by to try an score outside. One thing is for sure….You aint getting Sh!t out of Horford and Zaza. Hamburger and his helper.”

OOPS! :-)

Horford: 24 and 16 with 4 ast and 2 blocked shots!

And that, my friends, was against 7′ 2″, 278 pound Roy Hibbert.

Actually I’m SURE that truth-serum is pleased to be wrong, at least for tonight.

And IF (and that’s a HUGE if) Al can do this consistently; I’ll wager that he’ll win truth-serum over. How could he not?

BIG UP’S TO SAUTEE AND HIS ALI SIS- LOL

YOU ARE RIGHT MY VERBAL CHALLENGE TO THE HAWKS ORGANIZATION TO ADDRESS OUR LOW POST WEAKNESS IS WROUGHT IN GOOD WILL AND HOPE FOR A HAWKS CHAMPIONSHIP. TO BE A CHAMPION YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE ONE. I HAVE NIGHT CLASSES SO I MISSED THE FIRST HALF BUT THE BOX SCORE SHOWED GOOD NUMBERS FROM HORFORD. MY INSISTENCE IS THAT THE POINTS NOT COME FROM GARBAGE PUT BACK, FOLLOWING SOMEONE ELSES MISS, BUT FROM CREATING HIS OWN SHOTS AND OFFENSE. THE REASONING IS THAT DEFENSES HAVE TO PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO OFFENSIVE THREATS AND OPENS THE DOOR FOR AN IN AND OUT GAME.. GARBAGE BASKETS ARE NEUTRALIZED BY BOXING OUT AND FLOOR SPACING. THE HAWKS AND WOODSONS NEEDS HORFORD TO COMMAND AT LEAST ONE MAN BE ON HIM AT ALL TIMES IN ORDER FOR THE OFFENSE TO FLOW. THAT WASNT THE CASE LAST YEAR OR THE YEAR BEFORE. WHEN I DID GET TO THE GAME I SAW A LOT OF FOLLOWS AND PUT BACKS, TRUE, BUT IT DID LOOK LIKE HE WAS THE BEAST IN THE POST AND THAT HE WOULD MAKE THEM PAY FOR LEAVING HIM UNATTENDED. HAVING SAID THAT, LETS BE REAL, WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PACERS HERE. I BELIEVE ‘YOU’ MAY HAVE LOOKED GOOD AGAINST THEM, SAUTEE.
ON THE FLIP SIDE, SAUTEE, IT SEEMED THAT DURING THE THIRD QUARTER WHEN THE PACERS WERE STILL IN THE HUNT, WHEN EVER THEY NEEDED A BASKET THEY TOOK THE BALL IN THE PAINT, TO THE POST, AND SCORED. NOT GOOD@! WE NEED TO DEFEND THE POST LIKE IT’S OUR HOMES. TEAMS NEED TO FEAR GOING IN OUR POST AND CHOOSE TO SETTLE FOR OUTSIDE SHOOTING. EVEN IF THEY GET LUCKY AND HIT THOSE OUTSIDE SHOTS, I WILL BE HAPPY THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED THE RIGHT WAY.

A WIN IS A WIN! TO THE WHINERS WHO ARE SAYING ITS ABOUT TIME WOODSON WENT 10 DEEP…. WELL YOU HAVE TO HAVE TEN DEEP TO PLAY TEN DEEP. THIS ISNT THE BOYS CLUB OF AMERICA WHERE YOU PAY AND THEREFORE SHOULD PLAY. THIS IS HIGH STAKES BASKETBALL. WERE TRYING TO WIN HERE.IF YOU WANT TO SEE JOHNNY RUN JOIN THEY “Y” LEAGUE.

IT’S NICE TO SEE WOODSON HAVE 10 DEEP TO RUN WITH. ACTUALLY THE TWO DNP’S ARE DECENT PLAYERS TOO.

TWO WORDS: SHELDON WILLIAMS…GO FIGURE! DID SOMEBODY LIGHT A FIRE UNDER HIS BUTT?

SAUTEE, ITS JUST ONE GAME. YOU ARE RIGHT. I WANT CONSISTENCY. I WANT HORFORD TO BE ABLE TO CREATE HIS OWN SHOT AGAINST ANYBODY OUT THERE. THAT’S HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO UP HIS GAME, NOT WOODSONS. WOODSON WILL CALL ON HIM. IT’S UP TO HORFORD TO RESPOND WITH RESULTS

DID JJ PLAY 39? WHOSE TEAM IS THIS? I THINK THIS IS STILL JJ’S TEAM! IF YOU WANT TO KEEP HIM YOUD BETTER RESIGN WOODSON. JJ IS THE THREAD THAT KEEPS THIS FABRIC TOGETHER. HE IS SWEET IN THE PAINT.

BY THE WAY, SAUTEE, IF HORFORD DID LOOK GOOD, LETS ACKNOWLEDGE WOODSON, AS YOU REMINDED ME ITS WAS HIS COMMENT THAT HE WOULD WORK WITH HORFORDS TO DEVELOP A GAME. BY THE WAY I GO TO SCHOOL AT NIGHT BECAUSE I WANT TO ELEVATE MY GAME. MY BOSS DOESNT TEACH MY CLASSES, SET MY CURRICULUM OR DO MY HOME WORK. I GROW AND LEARN BECAUSE I HAVE A DESIRE TOO. I HAVE THE FIRE AND WILL WITHIN ME. YOU CAN’T STOP ME! THAT’S THE ATTITUDE I LOOK FOR IN A CHAMPION. NOT EXCUSES. QUIT WHINING, PLAY BALL! !

tidog

October 29th, 2009
12:55 pm

Two words Shelden Williams “coached up”

Traceman

October 29th, 2009
1:12 pm

I agree Ken. Nitpicking the minutes distribution in the first game of the season when 10 players played more than 10 minutes is a bit much to me. I guess I’m confused regarding what people want to see. With the possible exception of JJ, which starter should have played less?

If Woody had given 4 of JJ’s minutes to Crawford so that he had played 18 minutes instead of 14 (leaving JJ with 35 instead of 39), how many of you would have been happy? 35 minutes for Smoove, 34 for Al and 31 each for Marv and Bibby sounds about right to me.

Some games, I expect to see Crawford play 30+ minutes when he has it going but there are games when he might only play 14 like he did last night. Same goes for Zaza, Teague, Mo and Joe Smith. That is the nature of trying to find minutes for that many guys off the bench.

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
1:18 pm

Two words Shelden Williams got cut and decided to work harder!!

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
1:20 pm

For the record is there any centers or power forwards anywhere who doesnt eat RHibbet and and J Foster’s their lunch? Even Ken could get the best of them and he has NO basketball experience what so ever!

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
1:22 pm

A WIN IS A WIN! TO THE WHINERS WHO ARE SAYING ITS ABOUT TIME WOODSON WENT 10 DEEP…. WELL YOU HAVE TO HAVE TEN DEEP TO PLAY TEN DEEP. THIS ISNT THE BOYS CLUB OF AMERICA WHERE YOU PAY AND THEREFORE SHOULD PLAY. THIS IS HIGH STAKES BASKETBALL. WERE TRYING TO WIN HERE.IF YOU WANT TO SEE JOHNNY RUN JOIN THEY “Y” LEAGUE.

IT’S NICE TO SEE WOODSON HAVE 10 DEEP TO RUN WITH. ACTUALLY THE TWO DNP’S ARE DECENT PLAYERS TOO.

TWO WORDS: SHELDON WILLIAMS…GO FIGURE! DID SOMEBODY LIGHT A FIRE UNDER HIS BUTT?

SAUTEE, ITS JUST ONE GAME. YOU ARE RIGHT. I WANT CONSISTENCY. I WANT HORFORD TO BE ABLE TO CREATE HIS OWN SHOT AGAINST ANYBODY OUT THERE. THAT’S HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO UP HIS GAME, NOT WOODSONS. WOODSON WILL CALL ON HIM. IT’S UP TO HORFORD TO RESPOND WITH RESULTS

DID JJ PLAY 39? WHOSE TEAM IS THIS? I THINK THIS IS STILL JJ’S TEAM! IF YOU WANT TO KEEP HIM YOUD BETTER RESIGN WOODSON. JJ IS THE THREAD THAT KEEPS THIS FABRIC TOGETHER. HE IS SWEET IN THE PAINT.

BY THE WAY, SAUTEE, IF HORFORD DID LOOK GOOD, LETS ACKNOWLEDGE WOODSON, AS YOU REMINDED ME ITS WAS HIS COMMENT THAT HE WOULD WORK WITH HORFORDS TO DEVELOP A GAME. BY THE WAY I GO TO SCHOOL AT NIGHT BECAUSE I WANT TO ELEVATE MY GAME. MY BOSS DOESNT TEACH MY CLASSES, SET MY CURRICULUM OR DO MY HOME WORK. I GROW AND LEARN BECAUSE I HAVE A DESIRE TOO. I HAVE THE FIRE AND WILL WITHIN ME. YOU CAN’T STOP ME! THAT’S THE ATTITUDE I LOOK FOR IN A CHAMPION. NOT EXCUSES. QUIT WHINING, PLAY BALL! !

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
1:26 pm

THE BOX SCORE SHOWED GOOD NUMBERS FROM HORFORD. MY INSISTENCE IS THAT THE POINTS NOT COME FROM GARBAGE PUT BACKS, OR FOLLOWING SOMEONE ELSE’S MISS, BUT FROM CREATING HIS OWN SHOTS AND OFFENSE. THE REASONING IS THAT DEFENSES HAVE TO PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO OFFENSIVE THREATS AND OPENS THE DOOR FOR AN IN AND OUT GAME.. GARBAGE BASKETS ARE NEUTRALIZED BY BOXING OUT AND FLOOR SPACING. THE HAWKS AND WOODSONS NEEDS HORFORD TO COMMAND AT LEAST ONE MAN BE ON HIM AT ALL TIMES IN ORDER FOR THE OFFENSE TO FLOW. THAT WASNT THE CASE LAST YEAR OR THE YEAR BEFORE. WHEN I DID GET TO THE GAME I SAW A LOT OF FOLLOWS AND PUT BACKS, TRUE, BUT IT DID LOOK LIKE HE WAS THE BEAST IN THE POST AND THAT HE WOULD MAKE THEM PAY FOR LEAVING HIM UNATTENDED. HAVING SAID THAT, LETS BE REAL, WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PACERS HERE. I BELIEVE ‘YOU’ MAY HAVE LOOKED GOOD AGAINST THEM, SAUTEE.
ON THE FLIP SIDE, SAUTEE, IT SEEMED THAT DURING THE THIRD QUARTER WHEN THE PACERS WERE STILL IN THE HUNT, WHEN EVER THEY NEEDED A BASKET THEY TOOK THE BALL IN THE PAINT, TO THE POST, AND SCORED. NOT GOOD@! WE NEED TO DEFEND THE POST LIKE IT’S OUR HOMES. TEAMS NEED TO FEAR GOING IN OUR POST AND CHOOSE TO SETTLE FOR OUTSIDE SHOOTING. EVEN IF THEY GET LUCKY AND HIT THOSE OUTSIDE SHOTS, I WILL BE HAPPY THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED THE RIGHT WAY.

Sautee

October 29th, 2009
1:31 pm

Truth-serum,

Props to you for furthering your education. I’d do it myself if I were younger. But I’m sorry that you’ll miss some games. Do you have a way to tape them (VHS,DVR,TIVO)?

Yes, I’m also looking for consistency from Al, but part of that will be getting enough touches on a regular basis. Last year he averaged fewer than 9 shots per game. If Woody wants more out of him, he’ll have to up THAT number.

If Al gets enough touches, I think he could give us 15 and 10+.

T-s, did you see the Orlando game? A debacle, yes, but one play REALLY stood out to me. Al got the ball on the left block and IMMEDIATELY drove across the lane and made a sweet little baby hook over the Defensive Player Of The Year, Dwight Howard. What that play showed me (and HOPEFULLY showed Al and Woody) was that if he uses his quickness, he CAN score on anybody.

But like we both said, it needs to be there every night.

And how about your boy Lopez kickin’ a$$?

I STILL wish we had somehow gotten into that draftand stolen him. As I said on draft night, he has too good of skills at that size to have lasted that long. I think he’ll break out this year.

Oh well,c’est la vie.

Traceman

October 29th, 2009
1:40 pm

Tidog,

Jim O’Brien on Solo:

“He’s a little undersized at the center spot, which is where we’re playing him. But you can tell he’s been well-coached down here the last couple of years. He’s going to help us.”

Apparently, Solo was “coached up” when he was here. Don’t blame Shelden’s inability to succeed here on anyone but him. Unfortunately, we didn’t have KG or Rasheed to pair with him to allow him to do what he does best. It had nothing to dowith coaching, he just didn’t fit here, just like he didn’t fit in SAC.

Flappin' Hawk

October 29th, 2009
1:46 pm

It’s the 1st game, my friend. Balanced minutes will come with time, but no one expected them to be perfectly dispensed in game 1 of the season. Bibby and JJ were noticeably fresher in the 4th because they didn’t have to carry the load from the outset like last year. Horford picking up some scoring responsibility makes the game much more endurable for JJ. I loved the offense.
defense on the other hand was late in comingto the game. That will be OK with teams like the Pacers but not the top teams.
All around, I loved it. Mo is right on the money with the 2nd team. Giv’em a couple games, please.

rusty

October 29th, 2009
1:54 pm

jj needs to play no more than 34 minutes. i hope we dont change crawford into a non scorer. we will certainly need him to score when jj chokes in big games

THUG-B-A

October 29th, 2009
2:34 pm

1. Thug
2. Thug
3. Criminal
4. Thug
5. Thug

Terrell

October 29th, 2009
2:41 pm

Northcyde is LAME,
It’s about winning the game. If everybody played 20 mins and we lost what would you be saying? If Joe is hot do you take him out the game only because you want everybody to have equal minutes? NO! If you say they should then you’re wrong.

Rusty,
JJ has never choked in big games. He has been injured and fatigued down the stretch and it’s hard to make an impact, but he has not just plainly flat out choked.

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
2:42 pm

WOW! READ IT!!! READ IT NOW!!!!

http://dimemag.com/2009/10/tim-donaghys-book-excerpts-are-crazy/#more-23063

I dont care what I have to do, I WILL get my hands on this Book.

Bibby was obviously robbed of a Title in 2002…..

Terrell

October 29th, 2009
2:47 pm

For those that say 38min/game is too much for Joe, look at this first game. He didn’t have to work as hard as he usually does, and that’s a bonus. If Joe is able to play like this the whole season it could have the same affect as him playing 25 hard minutes a game. He was on the court for 38 min yes, but it was just always him doing the work.

Sautee

October 29th, 2009
2:47 pm

Terrell,

Not down on Joe, but what about when he missed a free throw at the end of a game(Boston?)that would have tied it? That was choking. And I’d bet Joe would say so too.

ALL players “choke” at some point, even MJ, Magic and Bird. Joe’s certainly not perfect, nor should we expect him to be.

Jay

October 29th, 2009
2:47 pm

I am 0% surprised that Woodson didnt play the bench more. Its the way he operates as a coach…he’ll ride his starters into the ground. It is what he has always done…you think that might suddenly change 5 years later? Please.

Plus, Woodson is playing for his job, just like in 2007. And just like 2007, he wont play his bench. I expect Teague, Evans, and Joe Smith to get less then 10 minutes a game.

Woodson’s usage of our bench (or lack thereof) is the #2 reason why I want him gone. #1 being our iso-Joe offense.

Terrell

October 29th, 2009
2:50 pm

THUG-B-A
What are you trying to imply with you idiotic comment? Just because you can’t jump high doesn’t mean you have to resort the same racial politics that Rush Limbaugh has.

vava74

October 29th, 2009
2:50 pm

I have absolutely NO DOUBT that Donaghy’s claims are true, maybe not 100% but very close.

Wade was getting the star treatment against us last year because the NBA wanted a Lebron-Wade match up.

Miami was simple too bad of a team to beat us even with the refs help and maybe after this guy was arrested the league had to be more discrete.

Also, Miami’s title was highway robbery: Cuban was 100% right and is now a “persona non grata” in the league.

Until he sells the Mavs, they will not be going to the finals again.

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
2:51 pm

From Candace Parkers Twitter:

http://twitpic.com/necec

Look At Shelden with tha Fam Candace/Anthony Parker (In Cleveland after the game)

It’s not important obviously…..just random…

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:01 pm

Sautee Yes! That was big time choking and hes done it more than once!

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:06 pm

Traceman Solo was and is a scrubb!@!!

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:07 pm

Traceman Good posts and insight!

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
3:12 pm

98 BOTTLES-first of all, this forum is all about offering one’s opinions. While some opinions are more informed than others, they’re opinions just the same. It’s unfair and rather self promoting to label someone’s opinion a lie and that someone a lier. I’m a Hawks fan and I want them to succeed, along with whoever plays for or coaches them.

Pointing out what is perceived as a player or coach’s shortcomings doesn’t mean I want the player or coach to fail. There have been numerous things that I feel Woodson has or hasn’t done as HC that hasn’t been in the best interest of the team, as well as some of it’s players. I’ve always given him credit when I feel he’s deserved it, but since you haven’t been a part of this forum long enough to know this, it’s understandable you don’t know that about me.

Your issues with me seem to stem from your inability or unwillingness to separate me disliking some of the things Woodson does or doesn’t do as a HC from disliking him as a person, because there’s a tremendous difference in the two. IF YOU’RE A HAWKS FAN LIKE ME AND WHAT THE BEST FOR THEM, THEN I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU WHATSOEVER, AND THAT GOES FOR ANYONE.

How do you feel about the Marvin vs Granger debate? My take is, if Marvin went to the Pacers and got the 1277FGA Granger got as their #1 option, instead of the 622FGA he got as the Hawks #4 option, he’d be just as effective and efficient as Granger. I doubt if Granger would fair any better than Marvin as our #4 option and taking only 622shots. Marvin also seems to have more room for growth. For those who want Granger because you think we need more OFF, consider this. Aside from points, all of Marvin and Granger’s other stats are surprisingly simular. Bibby(34.7MPG) and Marvin(34.3MPG)averaged almost the same MPG last yr. And although Bibby controlled the ball and the OFF more than any other player, besides JJ, and attempted 1006FG’s(384 more than Marvin), Bibby(14.9PPG)scored only (1)PPG more than Marvin(13.9PPG). If more scoring is needed, Woodson should instruct Bibby to make certain Marvin is the one that gets the 1006FG attempts. He wouldn’t need to make a single additional FG to make up Bibby’s 1pt scoring advantage, just hit 1 additional FT per gm, which wouldn’t be a problem at all if he attempted an additional 384 shots.

That’s what I’ve been preaching all along. If we become more efficient in time management, by use our bench more, and make adjustments to our overall OFF philosophy(Make Marvin our #2 scoring option, go inside and run more often), we wouldn’t need to talk about trading this player or that player.

reedeak

October 29th, 2009
3:13 pm

Any word on the Joe Smith song??????

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:21 pm

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 20091:20 pm

*TO SEE JOHNNY RUN JOIN THE “Y” LEAGUE

98 bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
1:20 pm

*Is there any centers or power forwards anywhere who doesnt eat RHibbet and J Foster’s lunch?

Sautee’ , Im not a true lopez fan. Im a Hawk fan. I was press for who was a legitimate center by you and others and I offered Lopez. I would, as you say love to see Horford develop a game, add a few pounds and not wear down as the season gets long. Yes, Id love to be wrong. I like Horford, but to me he is a power forward. If he can give us the 15/10, that others said I was irrational in asking for, we could contend. His position is the most pivotal in us reaching the next level. I still did not hear you fix your mouth to admit Woody is working with him….to encourage him. BTW, Woody can encourage all he wants, its Horford who plays the game.

No,VHS,DVR,TIVO.

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
3:30 pm

Dukester9

October 29th, 2009
3:33 pm

Well first i will say, hey its the 1st game of the season. It will take a minute to get a good rotation going, im hoping he used the pre-season to see what he had with evaluations and now with live action he can put together the rotation. With that being said Indiana exposed something ive been crying about the last 2 years. We need a defensive center, They drove to the basket at will. And most teams know thats our weakest area. Yes we did a fine job on the perimeter defense with steals but the team that controls the paint wins in the end, unless you can light it up from the outside.

Boneyard Randy

October 29th, 2009
3:34 pm

Can we just call Joe Smith, Joe-Smoove? Or is he not all that smoove?

Blast

October 29th, 2009
3:34 pm

All these talks about Joe’s minutes after only one game. Has it occurred to anybody that Joe Johnson himself might not want to come out of the game, that it’s not just Woody making him play all those minutes? Besides, Joe was needed to not just score in the fourth quarter, but also to put the clamp down on Grainger, which he did. It’ a long season, Hawks fans. Chill people.

Amazing to see how much things opened up for Joe when Al and Josh had it going in the first half. Joe hardly saw any double team last night. He was almost the forgotten man, allowing him to pump in a couple of open threes. We need more of that. Go Hawks!

Sautee

October 29th, 2009
3:37 pm

“I still did not hear you fix your mouth to admit Woody is working with him….to encourage him. BTW, Woody can encourage all he wants, its Horford who plays the game. ”

No, because I BELIEVE Woody when he says that it’s up to the coaching staff to help make Horford better on offense. I’ve seen NOTHING from Horford that would indicate that he’s lazy, unmotivated, or a slow learner. I don’t doubt Horford’s dedication, nor do I doubt Woody’s admission that the coaches need to work with him. And I think it goes WELL beyond mere encouragement.

It’s OK with me for YOU to believe something different from Woody’s statement, but THAT is what I believe.

Sautee

October 29th, 2009
3:42 pm

truth-serum,

In case I was unclear, if Horford makes a quantum leap this year, I’ll gladly give Woody nad his staff some credit. One game isn’t enough. Besides weren’t YOU the one denigrating the quality of the opposition?

If Hibbert and Foster are THAT bad, why would ANYONE deserve credit?

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:52 pm

“I’ve always given him credit when I feel he’s deserved it, but since you haven’t been a part of this forum long enough to know this, it’s understandable you don’t know that about me.”

You are wrong. Ive been around here a couple of years which is long enough to hear your unmerited and incinerate verbiage. You and I have had confrontation on both.Ive observed you on Schultz and Bradley as well.Reliving it is not worth the time it takes to present it. Bottom line is we do agree that is good not to be a blind fan, to be objective and to show tough love in support.
When you say you give him credit. when he deserves it, well… thats your OPINION, that he deserved it or not. It is not a fact, although you preach as if it is. WRONG. Your opinion is not a fact.

“Your issues with me seem to stem from your inability or unwillingness to separate me disliking some of the things Woodson does or doesn’t do as a HC from disliking him as a person, because there’s a tremendous difference in the two” – Wrong. My issues with you is your willful and malicious ignorance of the very good job that Woodson has done. You seem to be upset that woodson wont take your irrational advice nor grant interviews to the racist Schultz. It Woodson team, the results are Woodson. We have excitement, energy, a large fan base, two consecutive playoffs, each year we win more and more games. The team gets along and the nest it rocking, yet you nag, whine and complain antagonistically because Woodson’s not playing Ken’s style of basketball and playing Ken’s favorite players. Quit B!tching. We are winning! Thats what I have against you. Thats why I call you a hater and a whinny b!tch!

But again, I extend the olive branch.

Marvin vs Granger debate? Ken, Ive with Big Ray on this one. Ray has been on point a lot lately. Give him the ball! Granger is putting up better numbers but Marvin know how to co-exist and not step on egos. Hes got some serious people skills and you cant underestimate the importance of cohesion. Where would Josh and Joe be if Granger was here? Would there be a natural pecking order? The reason Sund did not want to change the nucleus was because it works. If it aint broke don’t fix it. If Horford can produce what Sautee has suggested 15/10 and we get another PF/C to bring in similar numbers, were in the big three. This team can jell. A little patience is in order.

Sautee,

Shout out to all my aliases@! – LOL

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:54 pm

**Ive observed you on Schultz and Bradley as well. You and I have had confrontation on both.

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:56 pm

Sautee – Almost fair enough. Woodson is giving Horford the opportunity to step his game up. Thats what Woodson should get credit for. If Horford does step up then Horford should get that credit.- That would be fair…enough.

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
3:58 pm

Blast, theres no doubt in my mind that its JJ who doesnt want to come out of the game. Its his team and Woodson puts the ball in his hands. Im OK with that!!

Ken, You still ready to have Teague replace Bibby right now?

98 Bottles of beer on the wall

October 29th, 2009
4:00 pm

Dukester9

October 29th, 2009
3:33 pm

SOME BODY GIVE THIS MAN A RAISE!!

Dukester9

Well first i will say, hey its the 1st game of the season. It will take a minute to get a good rotation going, im hoping he used the pre-season to see what he had with evaluations and now with live action he can put together the rotation. With that being said Indiana exposed something ive been crying about the last 2 years. We need a defensive center, They drove to the basket at will. And most teams know thats our weakest area.

Rod from College Park

October 29th, 2009
4:01 pm

Ken Strickland,

“How do you feel about the Marvin vs Granger debate? My take is, if Marvin went to the Pacers and got the 1277FGA Granger got as their #1 option, instead of the 622FGA he got as the Hawks #4 option, he’d be just as effective and efficient as Granger. I doubt if Granger would fair any better than Marvin as our #4 option and taking only 622shots. Marvin also seems to have more room for growth. For those who want Granger because you think we need more OFF, consider this. Aside from points, all of Marvin and Granger’s other stats are surprisingly simular. Bibby(34.7MPG) and Marvin(34.3MPG)averaged almost the same MPG last yr. And although Bibby controlled the ball and the OFF more than any other player, besides JJ, and attempted 1006FG’s(384 more than Marvin), Bibby(14.9PPG)scored only (1)PPG more than Marvin(13.9PPG). If more scoring is needed, Woodson should instruct Bibby to make certain Marvin is the one that gets the 1006FG attempts.”

First of all Ken, there is not a Marvin/Granger debate. I simply bought up the fact that last year, I gave a list of 15 to 20 small forwards in the league who were better than Marvin in response to someone else who told me that I could not name 10 better small forwards. I am not saying we could trade Marvin for Granger or any other crazy statement like that. My original point still stands that Granger is a much better player, on another stratosphere than Marvin. You continue to use the crazy logic that if Granger was on this team and he was our 4th option what would he do? THE POINT IS HE WOULD NOT BE THE FORTH OPTION. He is such a good player, that he would have earned a much bigger role on this team, than Marvin has. Marvin could never be as efficient or effective as Granger. His game is not as fluent, he can’t post smaller players. his defense is suspect, he could not average over 20 points a game in a year if he was the only person on the team, he can’t create his own shot, can’t dribble, is not aggresive…… Let’s be real, Marvin was not drafted by the Hawks to be the 5th best player. He was drafted with the intention of him becoming the #1 or at the worst the #2 option. He will never be that. If you honestly think that Marvin could hold Granger’s jock strap after watching the game yesterday (remember Granger was not supposed to even play due to injury), then I have to seriously question your basketball knowledge. I sure did not see our best perimeter defender as you say (MArvin) checking Granger at the end of the game. I wonder why? LOL

junebaby

October 29th, 2009
4:25 pm

THUG-B.A@2:34PM,…
1. SISSY
2. CHUMP
3. RACIST
4. AFRAID OF HIS OWN SHADOW, AND IT’S PROBABLY WHITE
5. SISSY
6. WANNA-BE-KKLANSMAN(BUT SEE .#4)

good 1st game for the hawks. i’m sure the rotation will shake down with a little more time under their belts. i say give them at least 20 games, because the entire 2nd unit is fairly new. i’ll say this, if they can win 50 plus playing these kind of minutes, i’m all for it!

junebaby

October 29th, 2009
4:42 pm

Ariose@2:42 pm,..

checked out your link
WOW!!!…, now that is some explosive stuff. and that’s probably only the tip of the iceberg. the part about the foul call on marginal players, resounded quilte loudly, as i’ve seen that time and time again! the stuff about s. javie and allen iverson, is not so farfetched. if this book is ever released, i will be sure to pick it up. i wonder what david stern had to do with it being pulled?

Dos Hawkquis

October 29th, 2009
4:52 pm

I looked at a breakdown of the minutes and I was completely satisfied. I don’t know what the hoop-la is all about. If any of the bench players had gotten particularly hot, I am sure that their minutes would have increased, even more. Bibby was cold as ice through 3 qtrs, as far as points go.

WE SHOT 72% FROM THE FREE THROW LINE. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT. We left 8pts on the table. In a close game, these free throws may be the difference between a W or an L.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
4:57 pm

June, It HAD to be stern, no doubt about it. Don’t be fooled by his looks, the man has connectios in high places. If he doesn’t want it out it won’t come out (I’l still find a way to get a copy though..).

Rod, Whil I agree with what you’ve said. I wanna give Marv his probs on an offensively sound game last night. He took advantage of his oppourtunities and whenever he got the ball he was looking to score. He used Zaza in a couple of screens to shake free for a couple mid-range J’s(I’ve been calling for him to do this consistantly for years….he may have sone it like twice last season total) and My jaw dropped when he knocked down that 30ft 3pt bomb….didn’t know he had it in him. If he can be agressive nad consistant like that every night, I won’t have to be too hard on him.

Now on DEFENSE lol…thata another story. But IT IS Danny Granger. Nobody shuts that guy down. He’s getting 25pts regardless of whose defending him. So I’m not to mad about that. The main problem was our Pick n’ roll coverages….thats what freed him up for some of those shots.

Oh, and Nire, He drained a three right in JJ’s grill and I KNOW you saw it. Granger doesn’t need space. He’s a beast.

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
5:01 pm

Dos, he wasn’t cold. He was EXELLENT. Feeding our bigs and deffering to everyone else until the 4th quater when we needed some clutch buckets. He used to do this in Scramento all the time. That’s why he was so clutch in the 4th quaters back then. Just saving his energy for when it really counts. He also played good defense. HE must be listening to those NBATV guys calling him a weak link lol…

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
5:08 pm

This just pi$$es me off. Doug collins thinks that Marvin is a PF???? What an idiot!!!

http://www.hawksbasketblog.com/2009/10/29/video-one-last-preview-tnts-doug-collins/

Grandad

October 29th, 2009
5:11 pm

Hello gentlemen: New to this board. Longtime HAWKS fan [Zelmo Beatty] 1st fav. Hawk. The defense was not as bad as meets the eye:
DEF. – Ind. 25 to’s,Atl. 16 steals, Teager…very quick as a change of
pace defending the point, Joe shut down Granger when it
mattered most, T.Murphy did not score 2nd half(very good player;
*stretches the floor*rebounds*underrated*overpaid*
[incongruent statement]Wish we had him wi.a better contract.)
Big Al 16 boards.
Josh – 8 asst.s, beautiful interior passing.
Off. – Where did that come from? Did not look like Woody’s off.
Too much passing (re Woody). Is Bibby the new Off. Coordinator?
Jamal- Must play, must get in rhythm, “shooters gotta shoot”.

welikebaseball2

October 29th, 2009
5:53 pm

Lots of folks are saying Woody is just doing what he has to do to win games. However, there’s something to be said about a coach wearing out his starters to win regular season games, finishing fourth in the East anyway, & having a worn out group of starters going into the playoffs. There’s got to be a balance…not sure exactly what it is…not sure that Woody has much of a clue either. Oh yeah, I am still happy we got the win! I’ll take it…for now :-) .

Sautee

October 29th, 2009
6:17 pm

Grandad,

Welcome! Good group here, though not without some friction now and then.

Many of us also go to The Hawks Fan Nest – the fan blog run by Big Ray and on occasion HB Ando.

Glad to have you join us.

rusty

October 29th, 2009
6:24 pm

ken
i usually agree with you but when you start comparing marvin to granger
i think you are smoking something strange. if any one thinks thar jj shut down granger in the second half that is insane

Najeh Davenpoop

October 29th, 2009
6:28 pm

Marvin’s a better man to man defender, but Granger is a lot smoother and more versatile offensively. Both are good players, but I’d give Granger the edge.

niremetal

October 29th, 2009
7:22 pm

When comparing players in the most abstract sense, I don’t think anyone can give Marvin the edge with a straight face. Now who would make the best fit here, that’s a different story…particularly given that Granger is paid to be a franchise player while Marvin is paid to be a downgraded Tayshaun Prince…

MyView

October 29th, 2009
7:45 pm

My problem with the bench not playing is the long term effect. If we are going to continue to advance and improve come playoff time, then Woody is going to have to trust the bench more. Why burn the starters out so that they are ineffective come playoff time. Also, the only way the bench will gel is to get them minutes now. Sure it may cost a game somewhere down the road, but a good bench playing cohesively will win us games later.

If we can’t trust the bench against the Pacers of the world, then when will we?

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
8:11 pm

ROD FROM CP-I see you took my comments concerning Marvin and Granger personally, even though I mentioned no names and wasn’t addressing you. So, what you’re saying is your unbelievably superior basketball knowledge and unquestioned insight allows you to determine without question what Marvin Williams is and is not capable of accomplishing. Allow me to put your UNSUBSTANTIATED PERSONAL OPINIONS concerning Marvins scoring potential into perspective.

Let’s assume Marvin took the same 1277 shot attempts Granger took last yr. Substract his 622 shot attempts from Grangers 1277 and you get a difference of 655 more attempts. Multiply that difference by Marvins .458 shooting percentage and you get projected 299.99 made baskets. Multiply those made baskets by 2pts and you get 599.99 total pts. Since Marvin played 61gms last yr and Granger took his 1277 shots in 67gms, we’ll divide Grangers 67gms into the 599.99 total pts and end up with an average of 8.96PPG. Add 8.96PPG to Marvins 13.9PPG and you get a total projected average of 22.86PPG. Now that 22.86PPG obviously doesn’t factor in made 3pt baskets or additional made FT’s, which could easily push his projected average to the 25.8PPG range. Now, I don’t know what criteria you used, but this definitely brings your biased, self engratiating opinion of yourself, your basketball knowledge, and Marvins ability to average 20+PPG into serious question.

doc

October 29th, 2009
8:48 pm

ariose, great lead for the book. you have been around here long enough to know my pet peeve is rigged refs.

next thing is i agree whole heartedly marvin will be better at the four. he just doesnt have what it takes to be atop notch three. yes, we have three power forwards in the starting line up.

Melvin

October 29th, 2009
9:27 pm

doc,

Agree with your 8:48 post and Doug Collins. Marvin is more of a PF than he is a SF. He doesn’t have the skill/agility to be an elite SF and not sure that he will develop them either. I think he’s destiny to be a role player off the bench.

Rod from College Park

October 29th, 2009
9:36 pm

Ken,

I did not take anything personally. I responded to you because I was the one who started the topic on the last blog. Reading is fundamental. Why would I sit up and try figure out a freaking algebra equation to determine what Marvin would do if he got more shots. If, if was a fifth we’d all be drunk. If a horse had wings it would be a unicorn. They were both drafted in the same draft. Compare the numbers. Marvin is not better than Granger in any part of his game. Granger is a better defensive player as well. Who was asssigned to Joe in crunch time? Keep living in the world of what if’s, I will live in the world of what is.

I MUS WRITE

October 29th, 2009
9:45 pm

Rod – Marvin wont give you 25 pts a night as a first option. Granger is an All Star type talent.Marvin is a role player- If granger were on our team he would Be our #2 option behind Joe. Maybe a number 1 option if were talking about scoring only…… #4 Option are you serious? The man is ice cold he goes for 30 or more every time we play Indiana.

Terrell- I dont remember Joe flat out choking but he may have needed the Heimlik Maneuver a few times. (See 2009 Playoff series against Cleveland)

99 Bottles has drank the contents of his bottles….Burp!!!!

Minutes? Minutes? Minutes??? Come on Man we just started the season 26 hours ago. Give Coach X a break he played the bench, what else do you want the man to do. If we didnt bring the starters back in we might have lost the dam game. I agree with the starters getting rest but not at the expense of winning. “Hello Thats Why You Play The Games” Herm Edwards

Crawford /Teague should get about 18 and 15 respectively with Joe/Zaza getting about 30 combined minutes.

GRANDAD- Whass up mane,welcome!

I told yall to watch out for Chitown they are giving the Spurs fits right now.

I MUS WRITE

October 29th, 2009
9:54 pm

Al Horford played well last night, With the improved shot and him being more aggressive I think he may go for 17/11 a game this year which would help us alot,I just need to see the man get his shots against the Celtics,Cleveland,and Orlando’s of there world. Dwight is coming Thanxgiving Night so we’ll see

Reggie (The Bird and Indian)

October 29th, 2009
9:56 pm

Ah, I’m disappointed I missed the opening night blog-fest last night. I was too attached to the T.V. to get on the computer. I was impressed with Al last night and Smitty was pretty impressive too. Joe looked like Joe from last year. Let’s get Crawdaddy in the game a little more and see what he can do. I’ll be at the game tomorrow night so I’ll be absent for the game again. How ’bout them Cavs?

Reggie (The Bird and Indian)

October 29th, 2009
9:58 pm

Oh dear god, RodSam is already at it this early in the year? We’re in for a long year folks.

Rod from College Park

October 29th, 2009
10:15 pm

I MUS WRITE,

You must have been responding to Ken. I agree with everything you said. That was my point.

Ariose

October 29th, 2009
10:36 pm

Doc/Melvin…..meh…I guess IF he had the right mentality he COULD be a PF, but….IDK His Shot is defenetly a guard-style shot, which is why he has trouble getting it off on a post-up…..he’s also not great at finishing with contact….but he’s great from the FT line….I say he’s better suited at SF but that’s me……he’s not perfect for either. You could make that arguement for Josh and AL as far as ideal positions are concerned as well. As long as we win games, i’m not going to trigger a migrane trying to think about it lol!

Rod, Also remember Granger had to pay his dues in INDY early in his carrer with a limited role offensively behined Reggie, J.O’neal, Tinsley etc…luckily for him all of those vets were on their way out the door so he moved up the pecking order fairly quickly because of it. His numbers didn’t get monsterous until they left…..but it would’ve happend eventually…

Terrell

October 29th, 2009
11:22 pm

I MUS WRITE,

I must disagree with you about Marvin. He showed last year when JJ wasn’t able to go that he go be the go too guy.

Also, like I said Joe was hurt down the stretch. He was fatigued as well from having the usually guard the other team’s best player and then have to be the #1 scoring option for Atlanta. He won’t say it, but he was tired, and not just the tired you can fight out of. When your body is really fatigued you feel it and you need time to rest and heal.

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm

ROD FROM CP-my position wasn’t about comparing Marvin to Granger, but determing which player was a better fit for the Hawks. I also wanted to demonstrate that statistically speaking, Marvin could average 20PPG if placed in the right situation. While you may have been the one that brought it up, you certainly weren’t the only one that rendered comments on the subject.

You make absolute statements about Marvin being completely incapable of averaging 20PPG and being a poor DEF player with nothing to back it up, besides your personal BS. I backed up my position with solid statistical probability, and you claim you live in a world of what is? That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.

In reality, none of us can say with any degree of certainty whether Marvin can or cannot average 20PPG, but there’s absolutely nothing that indicates he couldn’t if placed in the right situation. Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.

darrell starks

October 30th, 2009
12:07 am

Ken there is no comparing between marvin and granger marvin game has been solid but not better, and granger game have been better every year, if granger was in a hawks uniform they would be in the contention for and nba title and maybe the best player on the team, he is a younger version of tracey mcgrady.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

I MUS WRITE

October 30th, 2009
12:22 am

Whadd up Rod….

Terell- Marvin put up those numbers for 4 or 5 games, a full season is a whole other situation. Marvin is solid but he doesnt have it in him to be the man night in and night out-think about it most of his points are set up by other people. On the break or for wide open jumpers -His dribble drive game still looks a little goofy as well so….

“Joe was hurt down the stretch”

Come on man… Willis Reed was hurt in the finals with the Knicks ,wasnt alive but i heard about it-even saw video.Yao Ming played a whole half in the WC Semis with a broken foot. Kobe Bryant played a full season with a torn ligament on his shooting hand. 1998 Jordan came off his death bed with the flu to beat Utah in the finals. You ever see Larry Birds fingers man!!!!…. Excuses are passports to mediocrity -an original peice by I.MUS WRITE

Terrell are you Terrell Barron by chance?

Clyde

October 30th, 2009
4:57 am

Comparing Mavin Williams to Granger is like comparing Sean Williams to Horford. HAHA

ROLL TIDE

KevinA

October 30th, 2009
5:18 am

Our preseason wins and the Pacer win was a balanced scoring attack between the front court and the back court. It is no surprise that Al and Josh had bigger numbers. It should also be no surprise that the JJ ISO was less prevalent. The question is can we rely on the front court against good interior defenses. I think not. But that does not mean we can still get 54 wins. Just the way it is folks. Another year? Very possible. Kids still maturing. Pacers game a great way to wipe out the taste of the Orlando mess.Go Hawks.

No reason for Bibby and JJ to be in the game after the five minute left time. Worst case scenario he brings them bk after a 2 min break. Odds are we don’t need them.

If you want to play your starters till the end then they need more bench time earlier.

vava74

October 30th, 2009
6:23 am

Danny Granger is 26 years old and is in his 4th pro season.

Marvin Williams is 23 years old and is in his 4th season as well, however, he played only 1 year of college bball.

Danny Granger’s stats whilst he was 22 years hold (equivalent to Marvin last year) and had other players ahead of him in the Pacer’s pecking order:

06-07 IND G82 GS57 MPG34,0 FG%0,459 3PT%0,382 FT%0,803 ORB1,4 DRB3,3 RPG4,6 ASS1,4 STL0,8 BLK0,7 TO1,65 PF3,00 PPG13,9

I don’t see too much difference with regard to Marvin’s game, at the same age and with about the same amount of truly organized BBall time in his legs (Marvin has more games since the NBA season is longer than college BBall, but games are not everything) and given the same type of opportunity to shine.

People tend to forget that Marvin is still very young.

vava74

October 30th, 2009
6:34 am

The key for tonight’s game is not Arenas. I couldn’t care less if he scored 50 on us.

The key is to contain Butler, defend the perimeter against the opposing 3pt shots (a weakness in both of our last 2 games) and keep a good defensive composure against the Wizards’ bench who absolutely creamed Dallas: Blatche and Foye.

[...] FEATURED EX-CAT LINK: Veteran guard Mike Bibby still has “first-game jitters” (Atlanta Journal-Constitution) [...]

vava74

October 30th, 2009
8:06 am

Again about Marvin-Granger:

If we trust boxscores (for instance, Yahoo and NBA.com do not match), Granger had a very nice game statistically, however, he was -19 on the (+-) stat.

By far the worst of the team, whilst playing only(?) 23 minutes (are these minutes correct and is the +- stat correct?).

If this indeed correct, this would indicate, to say the least and as it is usually the norm, that when a team depends too much on a player, the final result, if not in all games, is negative in the long run during a season.

richbrave

October 30th, 2009
8:36 am

doc:

From 12:35 p.m. yesterday. Sorry I missed your note and that you’ll not attend the HAWKS?WIZ rumble #1 tonight. Been busy setting up in an antiques mall. Being an historian, I’m sure you realize I’ve collected many items of historical interest. This time however, I’m putting myself and my wife on display, heh,heh,heh. After almost seventy years we’ve earned it.

GeeMack

October 30th, 2009
8:53 am

Man Ya’ll better leave Ken alone. Dude comes with that heat. I pride myself on being a stat man, and dude taught me something. Do your thang Ken. Statically that was very impressive. Ken even when we disagree I always enjoy your blogs homie.

doc

October 30th, 2009
9:36 am

cool richie, so cool. enjoy and prosper in the moment.

from your comments i guess the lines are drawn tonight though. heh heh friendship sounds like it deteriorates for about three hours tonight. ;-)

let me know what you think i’ll be looking in a different direction.

Fork Tongue

October 30th, 2009
9:44 am

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
3:12 pm
98 BOTTLES-first of all, this forum is all about offering one’s opinions. While some opinions are more informed than others, they’re opinions just the same. It’s unfair and rather self promoting to label someone’s opinion a lie and that someone a lier.

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm
ROD FROM CP-That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.

Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.

Link Report this comment

O'Brien

October 30th, 2009
9:50 am

If Marvin was getting the same amount of shots as Granger, would he have the same scoring average, I dont know. But in my opinion, Marvin just does not have what it takes to be a #1 option.

He did step up when Joe was out for 2 road games last year, but if I’m not mistaken, those 2 games were against Minnesota and another scrub team (was it Charlotte?). I want to see Marvin step up more consistently against good teams.

I look forward to how he matches up with Caron Butler tonight

Fork Review Board

October 30th, 2009
9:55 am

In the spirit of fair play lets recognize that opinion are freely expressed and not to be mistaken for fact. Any one can freely voice an opinion with out being vebally admonished for having an opinion.

Lets be true to others and ourselves. Dis-prove the other persons opinions. Dont smear and obscure their opinion with hate messages.

Fork Tongue

October 30th, 2009
9:44 am
Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
3:12 pm
98 BOTTLES-first of all, this forum is all about offering one’s opinions. While some opinions are more informed than others, they’re opinions just the same. It’s unfair and rather self promoting to label someone’s opinion a lie and that someone a lier.

Ken Strickland

October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm
ROD FROM CP-That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.

Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.

Link Report this comment

Mike N.

October 30th, 2009
9:57 am

I also enjoyed reading Ken’s statistical breakdown. Marvin just has to show some agressiveness and demand 12-14 shots a game. That is not asking much in 32 minutes. With his shot and ability to get to the foul line he is an 18 point scorer with an average of 12-14 shots per game

ILL-logical

October 30th, 2009
10:11 am

Tonight’s game should provide more fodder for the Marvin and how good is he debate that continues to be a flash point for some. The Wizards seem to be the real deal this year and they are out to prove that last season was a fluke; marred by injury and chemisrty issues. With their go to guy back and seemingly in good form and a new coach, their victory over Dallas , on the road, strongly suggests that they are going to be a force in the conference this year. And Marvin’s play against Caron Butler will be key if the Hawks are to prevail.

Ken Strickland

October 30th, 2009
11:00 am

Let’s let this Marvin vs Grander issue rest, we have the Wizards to deal with tonight. We can’t wait until the 4th qtr to play solid DEF tonight. Of course, it will help if Washington doesn’t shoot lights out like the Pacers did. For those who think Woodson played JJ too many mins and didn’t give his bench enough mins, even though he played 10 players 10mins or more, look at what Washington’s new HC did. It seems Flip has decided to shorten his rotation and play only 8 players meaningful mins. In fact, he rode 3 of his starters to the tune of 38mins each and 2 bench players 30 and 35mins respectively. If we run and attack the basket like we did against the Pacers, we can take advangate of that.

The key for us defensively all season will be to limit penetration and take the pressure off of our frontline players having to switch, which will allow them to stay focused on the player they’re assigned to guard. That will also allow them to remain in better rebounding position, which is the key to us being able to run and score easy baskets in transition.

I’d like to see the Wizards use only 8 players while trying to keep up with our guard rotation of Teague, Crawford, JJ, Bibby and our frontline rotation of Smoove, Marvin, Horford, Zaza, JSmith and MEvans, especially if we push the ball. How effective will GArenas be, especially on DEF, after a dose of Teague and Crawford’s speed and quickness? That’s something opposing guards haven’t had to deal with before this yr.

I’m really excited about seeing how much we improve when playing on the road. I feel that will be the true test for determing how much we’ve improved. That’s also when the use of our bench will become most important. If we can be consistently competitive on the road, and win more gms, it will help us be more competitive against the elite teams. GOOD LUCK TONIGHT YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rod from College Park

October 30th, 2009
11:03 am

Ken Strickland,

“You make absolute statements about Marvin being completely incapable of averaging 20PPG and being a poor DEF player with nothing to back it up, besides your personal BS. I backed up my position with solid statistical probability, and you claim you live in a world of what is? That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.”

Ken you actually do have some knowledge as, I agree with you on some things you post, but you are totally wrong here. You use statistical analysis to predict the probability of something to determine the outcome. In your statement you tell me I am using opinions? I am actually using facts, because it has already happened. I can base what I say about Marvin on facts. YOU CAN’T. I don’t need probability. In your probability analysis did you consider what Marvin would do if he were guarded by the best player on the other team, or even double-teamed. Do you still think he could average over 20 points a game. I hypothesize that he could not. Most of his points with the Hawks are wide open jump shots or drives which come from the result of Joe being double or triple teamed. If say a Ron Artest was told to guard Marvin all game and never leave him, can you actually say that he would score 20 points in that game, or better yet 25.8 as Granger did last year? I say no, and that is based on facts because he can’t do it in an ideal situation, with the other teams worse defenders guarding him or not guarding him at all. Again, showing other people on the board like GeeMAck that you took college or graduate level statistics courses does not impress me. This is a basketball forum not a statistics class. I am stating facts, you are not. Or let me correct that, I am giving my OPINION, which is based on facts. THE FACTS ARE THAT GRANGER HAS PROVEN THAT HE IS A MUCH BETTER PLAYER THAN MARVIN. Good job Fork Toungue, hypocrisy at it finest. Don’t take yourself so seriously. You can be wrong sometimes.

O'Brien

October 30th, 2009
11:39 am

Ken,

I look forward to Teague improving his shot and his range, because there will be some games where Bibby is not fast enough to keep up with the opposing PG. That being said, if Bibby can stay in front of his man tonight, that will cut down on their penetration.

And the Hawks must push the tempo again, especially when they get a rebound. When we push the ball, our offense is less reliant on iso-JJ, and there is much better ball movement.

With JJ guarding Arenas tonight, I hope he is not concerned about expending too much energy on the defensive end. Establish the front court early, and JJ should be able to carry us late.

Fork Review Board

October 30th, 2009
12:03 pm

Rod from College Park,it important that, we dont admonish an opinion by offering another opinion. It is preferred ot dis-prove opinion’s with facts, not another opinion. No one can say that Ken isnt a motivate debater. He is, got to admire his zeal!

Thanks for the shout out!

Fork Review Board

October 30th, 2009
12:06 pm

*its important

**It is preferred to dis-prove

Mz. Hawkdafied

October 30th, 2009
12:39 pm

Yaaaay, a win to start the season. Sekou, are you sure Al Horford had an injury. Wow, he sure didn’t play like it. He was spectacular in the opener. He was definitely “Boss”. Well sure was good to see Al and Bibby on the court and in action. Those guys greatly contributed to the win on Wednesday.

I agree the Hawks turned the intensity up on the Pacers in the 4th quarter so they could get the win. They made the right plays at the right time to get the much deserved win.

As far as minutes go I didn’t like seeing that JJ played 39 minutes. Perhaps 4 minutes less would be better, or maybe 39 minutes sometimes here or there but not so often. Don’t want to get into old habits. Was Jason Collins hurt or something? Would have been good to see him in action for a few minutes.

Mz. Hawkdafied

October 30th, 2009
12:59 pm

Woodson said he’ll clear up any confusion about where the priorities should be with his new theory. ‘”Every game is important, I don’t care where it’s played,” he said. “But without a doubt, it’s more important to take care of your business here at home. We’ve got to win at home.”

HMMMM, yeah winning at home is important but that takes care of 41 games. What about the other 41 games? WTF! In my opinion road games should be of equal importance to home games if your goal is to become elite. OH LORD, SMH :-/! His theory should be win period and not just at home. Winning should be the priority and not just at home. Again just win at home and on the road. I AM LOSING MY PATIENCE. Okay let’s say the Hawks go undefeated at home and win no games on the road. I’m sorry I’m just not buying into that theory. GO FIGURE!

Mz. Hawkdafied

October 30th, 2009
1:03 pm

“I put it all on our fans,” Josh Smith said. “They’re the ones that have turned Philips Arena into what it is. We feed off of them when we’re here, and we struggle without them on the road. The best teams in the league, the best of the very best, don’t care where they play. We have to adopt that sort of attitude of wanting to silence crowds on the road while still taking care of our business when we’re here.”

OKAY NOW THAT’S A PLAN I CAN GET WITH! TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS ON THE ROAD AND AT HOME. AGAIN WINNING NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE SHOULD BE THE THEORY.

Ken Strickland

October 30th, 2009
1:07 pm

ROD FROM CP-allow me to give you the same advise DOC once gave me, GIVE IT A REST. Granger is a better scorer than Marvin, but that wasn’t my point of discussion. You make an issue of me presenting statistics, well, as least I had something intelligent to present. You appear to be the kind of person that when caught with your pants down, you try to hide your exposed parts by turning around to face the wall, while not having the sense to realize you’re exposing your butt.

OBRIAN-agreed. The only way I can see Washington improving their DEF is if FLIP has designed some sort of team concept, because the majority of their players are strickly OFF minded. They are the type of team that can blow you off the court if they’re hitting their outside shots. They’re soft up the middle, and that’s were we should attack them. The play of our frontline will determine the outcome of this gm. We should have the advantage at PF and C. Marvins ability to offset CButler’s production will be key.

Forcing him to be more of a jumpshooter and being strong on the boards himself will help neutralize Butler’s efforts. The same formula will work for JJ against Arenas. I believe the combination of Bibby, Crawford and Teague will give us the edge at PG. Man, wouldn’t it be nice if we could combine Joe and Josh Smith? Add Joe Smith’s jumpshooting ability, along with his savy and inside ability, to Smoove’s athleticism and shotblocking ability, and you would have a perennial Allstar for certain.

If Horford continues to play like he did against the Pacers, especially if he continues to effectively make that jumpshot, I can see him becoming a stronger more athletic version of former Celtic center Dave Cowens, but with less shooting range.

FORK REVIEW BOARD-you basically said in one sentence what I’ve been trying to get SAMUEL to understand. When he disagrees with someone, or someone disagrees with him, and he has no facts to support his OPINION, or logical response to their facts and/or opinions, instead of accepting the possibility that his opinion might not be the better of the two, he resorts to attacking the messenger instead of the message. When dealing with opinions on any subject, there’s no way for every opinion to be correct. Often, it’s not a matter of one opinion being right or wrong, it’s just a matter of some are more logical and/or more informed than others.

I really like our team, and all of the players we have on it, so I’m not in favor of trading any one of them just because they have a bad gm or can’t stop a certain Allstar calibur player from have an Allstar performance. Even when I was making my case for starting Teague over Bibby, I never said I wanted Bibby traded, because I like what he brings to our team. I especially love the assassin type of mentality he displays in the clutch. After sticking a clutch 3pointer, he just turns around and walks away, no high fiving, jumping around or showing any emotion. It’s like he’s saying to everyone else that’s doing all of those things, WHAT IN THE HELL ELSE DID YOU EXPECT!!! I LOVE IT!

Rod from College Park

October 30th, 2009
1:37 pm

Ken,

You presentation was not intelligent, it was a hypothesis which can be disproven by facts. Do you rellly think I would take any advise from you or DOC? Your parable or whatever it was supposed to be really did not prove anything. Granger is a better player period. Continue to live in your fantasy world, where Woodson is a terrible coach and Marvin is a better player than Granger. I’ll continue to live in the real world. No advise needed.

jerrywest

October 30th, 2009
2:01 pm

No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
No Mo Iso Joe
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Grandad

October 30th, 2009
3:02 pm

I haven’t read the whole debate, however, what N.D. stated above, seemed to be the most succinct. If the question is, would you prefer Marv as a Hawk, then the answer is absolutely. Granger: not known as a defender, not known to be clutch, and benefits from Indy’s system. Please, never compare off. stats when one guy plays in Woody’s system.

Terrell

October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm

I MUS WRITE,

No I’m not Terrell Barron, but you did make some good points about Yao Ming being hurt. Yao wasn’t hurt, he was injured and he did struggle. What’s the difference between hurt and injured. You can play hurt, it’s not the best idea but you can, but when your injured it’s almost impossible to play as effectively as you want to. The wear and tear of all the minutes JJ had to play last year guarding the best offensive threat most nights for the other team and then trying to be the #1 scorer for us hurt him. You can tell down the stretch he was tired. Then, in the playoffs he sprained his ankle and that’s a painful injury and while we didn’t see it he was feeling it. Just watch, this year, if Woodson uses the bench like he did last game where JJ doesn’t have to play a lot of “hard” minutes then we’ll be fine.

Grandad

October 30th, 2009
3:18 pm

To Sautee and I MUS WRITE: Thanks for the welcome.

cp

October 30th, 2009
3:37 pm

If the Hawks are going to win tonight then they better play some defense. I think its going to be a good game and hopefully we come out on top. I think Crawford gets more minutes tonight if he is not in foul trouble.

Terrell

October 30th, 2009
3:38 pm

I MUS Write,

About Marvin, yes it was only 4 or 5 games, but just like you question me how can you make the claim that only after 4 of 5 games of becoming the go to guy that he can’t do it?

You can’t put anybody in the same catergory as MJ and LB. I love JJ but he’s not MJ or LB and neither are any of these guys we call superstars in the NBA. That’s 2 totally different generations of basketball that you are trying to compare.

enough already

October 30th, 2009
3:44 pm

Grandad = Sautee

Mike Woodson

October 30th, 2009
3:50 pm

Enter your comments here

Mike Woodson's Motto

October 30th, 2009
3:53 pm

“Unorthodox offensives schemes dont matter, as long as we secure the win”

“Securing wins vs. mediocre teams, 1 ugly game at a time”

Poot-o-Meter

October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm

There seems to be a lot of guys here who say the hawks coach is terrible, fact is you are cruel and unfair in ignoring the very good job that Woodson has done. You seem to be upset that woodson wont take your advice and coach they way you would coach.
It Woodson team, the results are Woodson’s.
We have an exciting team,that has a postive energy, a large fan base, two consecutive playoffs, and each year we win more and more games. The team gets along and the nest it rocking.That is sucess!!
You nag, whine and complain antagonistically because Woodson’s not playing your style of basketball or playing your favorite players.

Quit B!tching!

We are winning!

Woody is paid to Coach. You arent!

Let the rest of of us enjoy the games!

Obvious Info

October 30th, 2009
4:01 pm

Poot-o-Meter is the only guy on Earth with a Mike Woodson throwback jersey,

Traceman

October 30th, 2009
4:03 pm

Ken,

NO ONE is a bigger Marvin fan than me. I have defended him for years and he remains my favorite Hawks’ player to this day. I think he is getting better all the time and I think he has only scratched the surface of his potential. That said, all you really need is the “eye test” to see that Granger is a superior player to Marvin at this stage of the game. In fact, JJ is the only player on our team who should even be compared to Granger right now. In fact, a STRONG argument can be made the Granger is an even better scorer than JJ.

With regard to whether him or Marvin would be a “better fit” on this team, Granger is a better fit on ANY team than Marvin right now. Period. He is simply that much better. They guarded each other quite a bit on Wednesday and it was obvious that Granger is better.

The fact that Granger is better is Marvin is certainly no slight to Marv. With his ability to create his own shot and his ability to consistently knock down the 3 point shot despite facing constant double teams, Granger is one of the best scorers in the league right now.

Rod from College Park

October 30th, 2009
4:11 pm

Traceman,

Agreed.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2009
4:15 pm

I don’t care who is younger or older.

I don’t care who is featured in the offense, and who isn’t.

I don’t care who went to college for more years.

Granger vs. Marvin is not a debate.

What I care about is that Marvin got torched, I repeat BURNT TO A CRISP by Granger for 22 points in a single half of basketball. The only thing that stopped the pain was Granger sitting down for significant minutes in the second half, then spending more than half of the fourth quarter being guarded by Joe Johnson, who had much easier defensive assignments up until that point.

And I have to give Woody credit for knowing to put Joe on Granger when he came into the game in the 4th quarter.

I don’t care about whether Marvin could score blah, blah, blah on another team, in another role. I think he would get around 17+, maybe 20 if he was called upon to do so. But 25 a game? No.

But who cares?

What I care about is him putting up a better defensive effort. People talk about Josh scoring 16 points in a half, and giving up 14……but that doesn’t even register when you’re talking about scoring 9 and giving up 22 …in a half, no less. Might as well compare the whole game and see that Marvin scored his usual 14. Granger got 31.

Marvin is just fine as a role player, but he can’t be giving up those kinds of points, at least not on that type of shooting.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2009
4:18 pm

Traceman ,

Is Granger a better scorer than Joe? He gets more points, don’t know if he’s exactly a better scorer. I’ll say this, he does attack faster, and clearly knows EXACTLY what he wants to do EVERY TIME he gets the ball. Coaching has something to do with that, but there’s another factor to consider: Joe is a better ball-handler, and I don’t think Granger can afford to pound the ball the way JJ sometimes does.

Either way, Joe is the better all around player, as he makes teammates better. Granger’s not that kind of player. But you could be right, he could have the edge on JJ as a scorer. Tough call, as neither guy has ever played the role of the other.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2009
4:19 pm

I take that back, Granger is a featured scorer that is far and away the best on his team, and JJ HAS played that role.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2009
4:19 pm

But Granger has never played the role of facilitator.

rms

October 30th, 2009
4:24 pm

Dang, does Sekou even commment on his own blog?

Diego

October 30th, 2009
4:24 pm

Grainger is a pure scorer. That mkaes him better than williams.

Traceman

October 30th, 2009
4:43 pm

Big Ray,

When talking about JJ versus Granger as an all around player, I give a slight edge to JJ because of the very things you mentioned. I think JJ is CLEARLY a superior ballhandler, passer, facilitator and defender. I would give a slight edge to Granger as a scorer because he is a better 3 point shooter and more efficient scorer all around.

Ken Strickland

October 30th, 2009
4:44 pm

GRANDAD-allow me to welcome you to the forum as well. We always welcome another contributor.

TERRELL-you made a good point concerning JJ. From a DEF standpoint, his situation is rather unique. Although elite 2 guards like Kobe, DWade, BRoy etc, often control the ball and their OFF, as well as defend against the better 2 guards, how often are they asked to guard PG’s like CPaul, DWilliam, TParker, SNash, RRhondo, TJFord etc, as their primary assignment? That was one of the main reasons I advocated starting Teague.

His superior speed, quickness and lateral movement would allow him to fight over screens and stay with these PG’s, which would relieve JJ of a tremendous DEF burden. It would also take a burden off our frontline as well. It’s not that Teague can stop these PG,s, who can, but the idea is to make it more difficult for them to use pick and rolls to create mismatches, get in the lane and attack our frontline. But I really liked Bibby’s overall energy against Indy, and he more than held his own, especially on DEF.

Grandad

October 30th, 2009
5:00 pm

enough already: Thanks for the compliment. Chemistry is “so” underrated in b-ball these days. I’m not certain Granger could “put his candle under a bushel” for the greater good. When Marv came out he was supposed to be the next Kevin Garnett. It is not his fault that our former Gen. Mgr. forgot to measure him.(KG/legit 7 ft.; Marv maybe 6-8).
He can never live up to expectations, however he is a fantastic all ’round team guy, exceptional shooter, above avg. defender, who meshes with Joe, Josh, Bibby, Al and subordinates himself for the betterment of the team. Am I a Marv fan? Really I’m pretty much indifferent, but I am a fan of TEAM.

Poot-o-Meter

October 30th, 2009
5:11 pm

Obvious Info , coaches dont wear jersey’s. How many current coaches have been with their teams 6 years or more?

Enough already

October 30th, 2009
5:12 pm

Grandad is sautee.

Enough already

October 30th, 2009
5:13 pm

Grandad sautee let me welcome your latest alias

O'Brien

October 30th, 2009
5:28 pm

Ray,

I agree. Marvin needs to step up defensively. With the players we have on this team (JJ, Bibby, Josh, Crawford)and with Woody’s system, Marvin is never going to develop into an elite scorer. What I would like to see him do is hang his hat on defense.

As Rod would say, there are quite a few SF who are better than Marvin (LeBron, Carmelo, Granger, Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, Paul Pierce, Richard Jefferson just to name a few). So Marvin needs to have a mindset that says “You know what, I might only score 14 ppg, but my guy will not score more than 14 either”.

Marvin cannot afford to only score 14, but have his guy go for 25 or more. Thats unacceptable in my opinion. There needs to be a tradeoff somewhere. If your guy goes for 25, then you need to have 20 or 22.

JeJe

October 30th, 2009
6:08 pm

Tonight’s game will be decided by Coach Woodson.

If he is smart, he will limit Bibby’s minutes (rest him for the big game vs. the Veteran Lakers on Sunday) and let Teague and Crawford get the bulk of the minutes on Arenas. We are simply too slow in our starting backcourt to contain him. Factor in Marvin’s invisible defense on the most part, and we really need our two speedy bench players to get minutes. Marvin’s defense (or lack thereof) on Wednesday was atrocoius.

DON’T BANK ON THE STARTERS THE WHOLE GAME, WOODY. U HAVE A BENCH!!!!!!

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
6:21 pm

truth-serum,

Three things:

1. I’m not Grandad, as you’ll eventually figure out.

2. You said this earlier: “Any one can freely voice an opinion with out being vebally admonished for having an opinion.”

truth-serum, that is sage advice, but you apparently have trouble doing it yourself, as you later said this:

“You nag, whine and complain antagonistically because Woodson’s not playing your style of basketball or playing your favorite players.”

“Quit B!tching!”

So, which is it? If one’s OPINION is that Woody could do SOME things better, is THAT b!tching? Or is it a valid OPINION?

You give lip service to the idea of OPINIONS being ok until someone’s OPINION is different than you think it should be. Which is it?

3. You also said this: “Lets be true to others and ourselves. Dis-prove the other persons opinions. Dont smear and obscure their opinion with hate messages.”

And yet you said this to me Tuesday: “Did you finish college? Did the professor do your work for you? I believe he did.”

What did THAT have to do with my OPINION?

It really bugged me because I had to drop out of college when my dad got sick and never had the opportunity to return. Who the F are you to be questioning my college days?

It was hate, pure and simple. And needless, since I had NOT personally attacked you in any way.

So IF you can take a dose of your own advice, I’ll be encouraged. Otherwise, we’ll be at odds, as I think that’s an inappropriate way to interact.

Truth-Serum

October 30th, 2009
6:30 pm

Not only are in Opinions incorrect, but you have given me credit that is not mine. Sorry. Im not the enough said guy. I really dont have any thing to say to you.

Good luck to you and have a nice day. Thanks for the shout out.

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
6:30 pm

Grandad,

You said this: “If the question is, would you prefer Marv as a Hawk, then the answer is absolutely.”

Don’t get me wrong. There are times when “fit” is more important. But Granger’s talent is transcendental. I swear, every time he shoots, I think it’s going in because his form is so pure and sweet.

I’m NOT talking Marvin vs. Danny, BUT, if we had a chance to acquire a talent like that, we HAVE to chance it, IMHO, even if we thought that the “fit” wasn’t as good.

Sometimes talent trumps all, in my opinion.

KevinA

October 30th, 2009
6:40 pm

Marvin’s D – Maybe that was why we still need Chills at the end of games. Quicker feet.

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
6:41 pm

truth-serum,

OK, let’s get this straight. Are you saying you are NOT Poot-o-meter?

And you’re NOT idiot check?

Because the bulk of that post was (as you WELL know) directed at those aliases. I could care less which fool thinks I’m Grandad. You’ll HAVE to admit that you and I have been throwing the “alias” thing around for the last week.

You have NOTHING to say to me, not even an apology for an unwarranted attack. OK, at least I know where you stand. Let’s continue to be so clear.

Grandad

October 30th, 2009
6:55 pm

Sautee: well said. I still would prefer Troy Murphy…higher 3pt.sh.% and double digit rebounder. His def. reb. + perim. sh. makes him unique.
Also; I am not Sautee and don’t know enough about the goings’ on around here to understand why someone thinks that. However, I’m certain it was mean’t as a compliment.

Idiot Check

October 30th, 2009
6:56 pm

Im here to check idiots like you Sautee, Truth Serum, does a good job. I think you are confused. Try thinning out your medication and see if that helps.

Sautee

October 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Sautee

Shout out to ALL of my aliases. LOL!

October 27th, 2009
9:39 pm
I could have SWORN that I posted that earlier.

October 27th, 2009
9:41 pm
Enter your comments here

Link Report this comment Maybe it was your alias

October 27th, 2009
9:43 pm
could it have been your alias posting?

Link Report this comment Sautee

October 27th, 2009
9:45 pm
Funny how all of MY aliases post as Sautee. And obviously there are OTHERS posting as Sautee as well. But that’s ok. At least I know who I am. Well, tonight, anyway. At my age, I may NOT know tomorrow.

What did you just say?

Link Report this comment Melvin

Big Ray
October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm

Sautee ,

LOL…

Sautee, Are you confessing?

October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
I dont think you should. Just act normal

Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:57 pm
Normal. Now THERE”S a subject for debate.

But not tonight. ‘Night all.

Sautee

October 28th, 2009
12:09 am
Ken did you use m y alias and post as me earlier?Sautee

October 28th, 2009
9:28 am
HA! Like anybody on the blog would think I was actually up at my computer in the middle of my sleep time. The next time I post after midnight will surely be my first.

Hint: Old Guys need their sleep. If you want to post as me, and you want it believable, post earlier.

Idiot Check

October 30th, 2009
7:01 pm

Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Sautee
Shout out to ALL of my aliases. LOL!

October 27th, 2009
9:39 pm
I could have SWORN that I posted that earlier.
October 27th, 2009
9:41 pm

Maybe it was your alias posting?
October 27th, 2009
9:43 pm
could it have been your alias posting?

Link Report this comment Sautee

October 27th, 2009
9:45 pm
Funny how all of MY aliases post as Sautee. And obviously there are OTHERS posting as Sautee as well. But that’s ok. At least I know who I am. Well, tonight, anyway. At my age, I may NOT know tomorrow.

What did you just say?

Big Ray
October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm

Sautee ,

LOL…
Sautee, Are you confessing?

I dont think you should. Just act normal

Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:57 pm
Normal. Now THERE”S a subject for debate.

But not tonight. ‘Night all.

Sautee

October 28th, 2009
12:09 am
Ken did you use m y alias and post as me earlier?Sautee

October 28th, 2009
9:28 am
HA! Like anybody on the blog would think I was actually up at my computer in the middle of my sleep time. The next time I post after midnight will surely be my first.

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
7:03 pm

Grandad just ignore my alias’s Im in denial.

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
7:12 pm

Well SOMEONE’S in denial and not admitting their personal attacks.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but I AM disappointed. I thought there was an actual sentient being there, but maybe I gave too much credit. Typical of me to be soft-hearted to the trolls. Live and learn, I guess.

Sautee

October 30th, 2009
7:14 pm

Grandad,

Don’t worry about it. It was NOT meant towards you, but a poor attempt to bug me.

Obvious Info

October 30th, 2009
7:22 pm

Poot-o-Meter, Woodson was ALSO a player, and you love him so much, I still believe you’re the only person who has access to a Mike Woodson throwback

bigdave

October 30th, 2009
7:24 pm

LETS GO!!! BEAT PISS OUT THE WIZARDS…!!!

bigdave

October 30th, 2009
7:37 pm

Stinger on Josh,

“though a PF, he’s playing like an all-star SF”

just saying… thats see it again Smoove…

bigdave

October 30th, 2009
7:42 pm

aight Ray lets see… Joe on Gil

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