Depth revealed (sort of)?
Did you see enough of Hawks rookie point guard Jeff Teague in the season opener? Hawks coach Mike Woodson's rotation was 10-deep but as expected, the minutes were lopsided in favor of the starters.
HAWKSVILLE – Did you see enough of Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith Wednesday night?
How about Jeff Teague and Mo Evans?
Zaza Pachulia and Jason Collins?
I didn’t think so.
Sure, the Hawks did what they had to do in dispatching the Indiana Pacers in their season opener. But I expected more, namely in minutes for the reserves.
We’ve heard for weeks about all this improved depth and how much deeper this team is going to be this season. We saw it in the preseason.
But it wasn’t on display against the Pacers.
Sure, everyone played a minimum of 10 minutes and no one played more than 40 (though Joe Johnson was knocking on the door at 39:23). And they did win the game doing it this way.
But 13 minutes and 36 seconds for Crawford and 10:48 for Smith seems a bit light to me, particularly in a game where the Hawks needed every bit of firepower they could muster to hold of the scrappy Pacers.
“I feel like we kind of succumbed to the way they wanted to play and to the rotation they wanted us to use instead of milking that newly formed bench we brought in here,” said Mo Evans, who made the most of his limited time, piling p 12 points in just 15 minutes. “We’ve got to learn how to trust our second unit as well to go out there and play. We’ve got a lot of talent over there and I think we got a little nervous because they were out there making shots and then we had to extend our starters’ minutes a little longer than we probably wanted. That’s not going to work during those stretches when we have four games in five or six nights.”
Stretches like the one the Hawks will face this weekend with Washington and into the middle of next week’s Western Conference road swing.
Hawks coach Mike Woodson took several questions about his playing rotation after the game – in his defense he did play 10 men in the third quarter, something he never did last season.
“We’re all trying to get used to one another,” he said. “They’re especially trying to get used to me and what I’m expecting when they’re out on the floor. Overall, I thought it was a great effort on everybody’s part, and we were able to secure the win. And that’s what’s most important.”
THE CLOSER
Mike Bibby didn’t crank his offense up until late against the Pacers, scoring eight of his 10 points in the fourth quarter. It’s a new role for the Hawks’ veteran point guard, who is adjusting to so many different offensive options that have either matured or been added since last season.
“I’m going to be a little bit more aggressive,” Bibby said laughing. “Hey, it’s my 12th year. I still get first game jitters.”
He didn’t flinch in the fourth quarter, though, showing that he’s always willing to take and make big shots with the game on the line.
His 3-pointer with the Hawks trailing 101-100 with 8:05 to play put them ahead to stay and his running jumper with 7:28 left gave the Hawks another quick jolt. His 3-pointer with 2:43 left gave the Hawks a 115-105 lead and a little insurance.
But his best work might have been done in the facilitation of the Hawks’ offense all night.
Bibby was efficient and allowed his teammates to make plays of their own (his willingness to keep everyone in a good flow is easily one of his most underrated qualities).
“Mike was doing a great job of getting the ball in the right spots and I was just shooting with confidence,” Al Horford said after his 24-point, 16-rebound effort.
HARD TO MISS
If Johnson’s confidence in his teammates wasn’t sky-high before Wednesday’s game it is now.
After watching Horford and Josh Smith tote the load on both ends of the floor early, he was full of praise after the game.
“I know those guys worked on their games over the summer and you can tell,” he said. “I know it’s the first game, but you can tell they’ve been working. I’m glad they came back with the mindset that they have and that’s what it’s going to take to get us over the top.”
It worked against the Pacers. While many of the Hawks’ looked rattled early as the Pacers piled up the points, Smith and Horford were steadying forces.
“For it to be the first game, you have so many jitters and you’re so anxious to get out there and play,” Johnson said. “I just really wanted to get into the flow of the game early. But it doesn’t always work that way, so I just tried to pick my spots. Al and Josh played great tonight. I thought they were the two guys that got us over the hump.”
The proof was in the Hawks scoring edge inside. They pounded the Pacers 54-38 in the paint.
ROOKIE DEBUT
Another guy that didn’t seem at all fazed by the moment was Teague, the rookie point guard. He certainly wasn’t shy (he took for more shots than Crawford and finished with five points, four assists and three rebounds).
“He looked comfortable out there,” Marvin Williams said. “I like that about him. He’s fearless.”
THE BIG FINISH
Whatever complaints you want to make about the Hawks’ defensive effort through the first three quarters is valid. The fourth quarter, however, was another story.
They limited the Pacers to a 5-for-15 shooting effort (33 percent) and forced six turnovers, allowing just 15 points in the game’s final stanza.
“They’re a tough team from an offensive standpoint,” Woodson said. “They keep you on your heels by pushing the ball constantly and if you’re not back and matching up with their 3-point shooters, they’re capable of making shots like they did tonight. But I thought that fourth quarter, when we really had to nail it down defensively; guys stepped up and made the plays they had to make.”
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192 comments Add your comment
Poot-o-Meter
October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm
There seems to be a lot of guys here who say the hawks coach is terrible, fact is you are cruel and unfair in ignoring the very good job that Woodson has done. You seem to be upset that woodson wont take your advice and coach they way you would coach.
It Woodson team, the results are Woodson’s.
We have an exciting team,that has a postive energy, a large fan base, two consecutive playoffs, and each year we win more and more games. The team gets along and the nest it rocking.That is sucess!!
You nag, whine and complain antagonistically because Woodson’s not playing your style of basketball or playing your favorite players.
Quit B!tching!
We are winning!
Woody is paid to Coach. You arent!
Let the rest of of us enjoy the games!
Obvious Info
October 30th, 2009
4:01 pm
Poot-o-Meter is the only guy on Earth with a Mike Woodson throwback jersey,
Traceman
October 30th, 2009
4:03 pm
Ken,
NO ONE is a bigger Marvin fan than me. I have defended him for years and he remains my favorite Hawks’ player to this day. I think he is getting better all the time and I think he has only scratched the surface of his potential. That said, all you really need is the “eye test” to see that Granger is a superior player to Marvin at this stage of the game. In fact, JJ is the only player on our team who should even be compared to Granger right now. In fact, a STRONG argument can be made the Granger is an even better scorer than JJ.
With regard to whether him or Marvin would be a “better fit” on this team, Granger is a better fit on ANY team than Marvin right now. Period. He is simply that much better. They guarded each other quite a bit on Wednesday and it was obvious that Granger is better.
The fact that Granger is better is Marvin is certainly no slight to Marv. With his ability to create his own shot and his ability to consistently knock down the 3 point shot despite facing constant double teams, Granger is one of the best scorers in the league right now.
Rod from College Park
October 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
Traceman,
Agreed.
Big Ray
October 30th, 2009
4:15 pm
I don’t care who is younger or older.
I don’t care who is featured in the offense, and who isn’t.
I don’t care who went to college for more years.
Granger vs. Marvin is not a debate.
What I care about is that Marvin got torched, I repeat BURNT TO A CRISP by Granger for 22 points in a single half of basketball. The only thing that stopped the pain was Granger sitting down for significant minutes in the second half, then spending more than half of the fourth quarter being guarded by Joe Johnson, who had much easier defensive assignments up until that point.
And I have to give Woody credit for knowing to put Joe on Granger when he came into the game in the 4th quarter.
I don’t care about whether Marvin could score blah, blah, blah on another team, in another role. I think he would get around 17+, maybe 20 if he was called upon to do so. But 25 a game? No.
But who cares?
What I care about is him putting up a better defensive effort. People talk about Josh scoring 16 points in a half, and giving up 14……but that doesn’t even register when you’re talking about scoring 9 and giving up 22 …in a half, no less. Might as well compare the whole game and see that Marvin scored his usual 14. Granger got 31.
Marvin is just fine as a role player, but he can’t be giving up those kinds of points, at least not on that type of shooting.
Big Ray
October 30th, 2009
4:18 pm
Traceman ,
Is Granger a better scorer than Joe? He gets more points, don’t know if he’s exactly a better scorer. I’ll say this, he does attack faster, and clearly knows EXACTLY what he wants to do EVERY TIME he gets the ball. Coaching has something to do with that, but there’s another factor to consider: Joe is a better ball-handler, and I don’t think Granger can afford to pound the ball the way JJ sometimes does.
Either way, Joe is the better all around player, as he makes teammates better. Granger’s not that kind of player. But you could be right, he could have the edge on JJ as a scorer. Tough call, as neither guy has ever played the role of the other.
Big Ray
October 30th, 2009
4:19 pm
I take that back, Granger is a featured scorer that is far and away the best on his team, and JJ HAS played that role.
Big Ray
October 30th, 2009
4:19 pm
But Granger has never played the role of facilitator.
rms
October 30th, 2009
4:24 pm
Dang, does Sekou even commment on his own blog?
Diego
October 30th, 2009
4:24 pm
Grainger is a pure scorer. That mkaes him better than williams.
Traceman
October 30th, 2009
4:43 pm
Big Ray,
When talking about JJ versus Granger as an all around player, I give a slight edge to JJ because of the very things you mentioned. I think JJ is CLEARLY a superior ballhandler, passer, facilitator and defender. I would give a slight edge to Granger as a scorer because he is a better 3 point shooter and more efficient scorer all around.
Ken Strickland
October 30th, 2009
4:44 pm
GRANDAD-allow me to welcome you to the forum as well. We always welcome another contributor.
TERRELL-you made a good point concerning JJ. From a DEF standpoint, his situation is rather unique. Although elite 2 guards like Kobe, DWade, BRoy etc, often control the ball and their OFF, as well as defend against the better 2 guards, how often are they asked to guard PG’s like CPaul, DWilliam, TParker, SNash, RRhondo, TJFord etc, as their primary assignment? That was one of the main reasons I advocated starting Teague.
His superior speed, quickness and lateral movement would allow him to fight over screens and stay with these PG’s, which would relieve JJ of a tremendous DEF burden. It would also take a burden off our frontline as well. It’s not that Teague can stop these PG,s, who can, but the idea is to make it more difficult for them to use pick and rolls to create mismatches, get in the lane and attack our frontline. But I really liked Bibby’s overall energy against Indy, and he more than held his own, especially on DEF.
Grandad
October 30th, 2009
5:00 pm
enough already: Thanks for the compliment. Chemistry is “so” underrated in b-ball these days. I’m not certain Granger could “put his candle under a bushel” for the greater good. When Marv came out he was supposed to be the next Kevin Garnett. It is not his fault that our former Gen. Mgr. forgot to measure him.(KG/legit 7 ft.; Marv maybe 6-8).
He can never live up to expectations, however he is a fantastic all ’round team guy, exceptional shooter, above avg. defender, who meshes with Joe, Josh, Bibby, Al and subordinates himself for the betterment of the team. Am I a Marv fan? Really I’m pretty much indifferent, but I am a fan of TEAM.
Poot-o-Meter
October 30th, 2009
5:11 pm
Obvious Info , coaches dont wear jersey’s. How many current coaches have been with their teams 6 years or more?
Enough already
October 30th, 2009
5:12 pm
Grandad is sautee.
Enough already
October 30th, 2009
5:13 pm
Grandad sautee let me welcome your latest alias
O'Brien
October 30th, 2009
5:28 pm
Ray,
I agree. Marvin needs to step up defensively. With the players we have on this team (JJ, Bibby, Josh, Crawford)and with Woody’s system, Marvin is never going to develop into an elite scorer. What I would like to see him do is hang his hat on defense.
As Rod would say, there are quite a few SF who are better than Marvin (LeBron, Carmelo, Granger, Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, Paul Pierce, Richard Jefferson just to name a few). So Marvin needs to have a mindset that says “You know what, I might only score 14 ppg, but my guy will not score more than 14 either”.
Marvin cannot afford to only score 14, but have his guy go for 25 or more. Thats unacceptable in my opinion. There needs to be a tradeoff somewhere. If your guy goes for 25, then you need to have 20 or 22.
JeJe
October 30th, 2009
6:08 pm
Tonight’s game will be decided by Coach Woodson.
If he is smart, he will limit Bibby’s minutes (rest him for the big game vs. the Veteran Lakers on Sunday) and let Teague and Crawford get the bulk of the minutes on Arenas. We are simply too slow in our starting backcourt to contain him. Factor in Marvin’s invisible defense on the most part, and we really need our two speedy bench players to get minutes. Marvin’s defense (or lack thereof) on Wednesday was atrocoius.
DON’T BANK ON THE STARTERS THE WHOLE GAME, WOODY. U HAVE A BENCH!!!!!!
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
6:21 pm
truth-serum,
Three things:
1. I’m not Grandad, as you’ll eventually figure out.
2. You said this earlier: “Any one can freely voice an opinion with out being vebally admonished for having an opinion.”
truth-serum, that is sage advice, but you apparently have trouble doing it yourself, as you later said this:
“You nag, whine and complain antagonistically because Woodson’s not playing your style of basketball or playing your favorite players.”
“Quit B!tching!”
So, which is it? If one’s OPINION is that Woody could do SOME things better, is THAT b!tching? Or is it a valid OPINION?
You give lip service to the idea of OPINIONS being ok until someone’s OPINION is different than you think it should be. Which is it?
3. You also said this: “Lets be true to others and ourselves. Dis-prove the other persons opinions. Dont smear and obscure their opinion with hate messages.”
And yet you said this to me Tuesday: “Did you finish college? Did the professor do your work for you? I believe he did.”
What did THAT have to do with my OPINION?
It really bugged me because I had to drop out of college when my dad got sick and never had the opportunity to return. Who the F are you to be questioning my college days?
It was hate, pure and simple. And needless, since I had NOT personally attacked you in any way.
So IF you can take a dose of your own advice, I’ll be encouraged. Otherwise, we’ll be at odds, as I think that’s an inappropriate way to interact.
Truth-Serum
October 30th, 2009
6:30 pm
Not only are in Opinions incorrect, but you have given me credit that is not mine. Sorry. Im not the enough said guy. I really dont have any thing to say to you.
Good luck to you and have a nice day. Thanks for the shout out.
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
6:30 pm
Grandad,
You said this: “If the question is, would you prefer Marv as a Hawk, then the answer is absolutely.”
Don’t get me wrong. There are times when “fit” is more important. But Granger’s talent is transcendental. I swear, every time he shoots, I think it’s going in because his form is so pure and sweet.
I’m NOT talking Marvin vs. Danny, BUT, if we had a chance to acquire a talent like that, we HAVE to chance it, IMHO, even if we thought that the “fit” wasn’t as good.
Sometimes talent trumps all, in my opinion.
KevinA
October 30th, 2009
6:40 pm
Marvin’s D – Maybe that was why we still need Chills at the end of games. Quicker feet.
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
6:41 pm
truth-serum,
OK, let’s get this straight. Are you saying you are NOT Poot-o-meter?
And you’re NOT idiot check?
Because the bulk of that post was (as you WELL know) directed at those aliases. I could care less which fool thinks I’m Grandad. You’ll HAVE to admit that you and I have been throwing the “alias” thing around for the last week.
You have NOTHING to say to me, not even an apology for an unwarranted attack. OK, at least I know where you stand. Let’s continue to be so clear.
Grandad
October 30th, 2009
6:55 pm
Sautee: well said. I still would prefer Troy Murphy…higher 3pt.sh.% and double digit rebounder. His def. reb. + perim. sh. makes him unique.
Also; I am not Sautee and don’t know enough about the goings’ on around here to understand why someone thinks that. However, I’m certain it was mean’t as a compliment.
Idiot Check
October 30th, 2009
6:56 pm
Im here to check idiots like you Sautee, Truth Serum, does a good job. I think you are confused. Try thinning out your medication and see if that helps.
Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Sautee
Shout out to ALL of my aliases. LOL!
October 27th, 2009
9:39 pm
I could have SWORN that I posted that earlier.
October 27th, 2009
9:41 pm
Enter your comments here
Link Report this comment Maybe it was your alias
October 27th, 2009
9:43 pm
could it have been your alias posting?
Link Report this comment Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:45 pm
Funny how all of MY aliases post as Sautee. And obviously there are OTHERS posting as Sautee as well. But that’s ok. At least I know who I am. Well, tonight, anyway. At my age, I may NOT know tomorrow.
What did you just say?
Link Report this comment Melvin
Big Ray
October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
Sautee ,
LOL…
Sautee, Are you confessing?
October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
I dont think you should. Just act normal
Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:57 pm
Normal. Now THERE”S a subject for debate.
But not tonight. ‘Night all.
Sautee
October 28th, 2009
12:09 am
Ken did you use m y alias and post as me earlier?Sautee
October 28th, 2009
9:28 am
HA! Like anybody on the blog would think I was actually up at my computer in the middle of my sleep time. The next time I post after midnight will surely be my first.
Hint: Old Guys need their sleep. If you want to post as me, and you want it believable, post earlier.
Idiot Check
October 30th, 2009
7:01 pm
Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Sautee
Shout out to ALL of my aliases. LOL!
October 27th, 2009
9:39 pm
I could have SWORN that I posted that earlier.
October 27th, 2009
9:41 pm
Maybe it was your alias posting?
October 27th, 2009
9:43 pm
could it have been your alias posting?
Link Report this comment Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:45 pm
Funny how all of MY aliases post as Sautee. And obviously there are OTHERS posting as Sautee as well. But that’s ok. At least I know who I am. Well, tonight, anyway. At my age, I may NOT know tomorrow.
What did you just say?
Big Ray
October 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
Sautee ,
LOL…
Sautee, Are you confessing?
I dont think you should. Just act normal
Sautee
October 27th, 2009
9:57 pm
Normal. Now THERE”S a subject for debate.
But not tonight. ‘Night all.
Sautee
October 28th, 2009
12:09 am
Ken did you use m y alias and post as me earlier?Sautee
October 28th, 2009
9:28 am
HA! Like anybody on the blog would think I was actually up at my computer in the middle of my sleep time. The next time I post after midnight will surely be my first.
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
7:03 pm
Grandad just ignore my alias’s Im in denial.
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
7:12 pm
Well SOMEONE’S in denial and not admitting their personal attacks.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but I AM disappointed. I thought there was an actual sentient being there, but maybe I gave too much credit. Typical of me to be soft-hearted to the trolls. Live and learn, I guess.
Sautee
October 30th, 2009
7:14 pm
Grandad,
Don’t worry about it. It was NOT meant towards you, but a poor attempt to bug me.
Obvious Info
October 30th, 2009
7:22 pm
Poot-o-Meter, Woodson was ALSO a player, and you love him so much, I still believe you’re the only person who has access to a Mike Woodson throwback
bigdave
October 30th, 2009
7:24 pm
LETS GO!!! BEAT PISS OUT THE WIZARDS…!!!
bigdave
October 30th, 2009
7:37 pm
Stinger on Josh,
“though a PF, he’s playing like an all-star SF”
just saying… thats see it again Smoove…
bigdave
October 30th, 2009
7:42 pm
aight Ray lets see… Joe on Gil
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