Depth revealed (sort of)?
Did you see enough of Hawks rookie point guard Jeff Teague in the season opener? Hawks coach Mike Woodson's rotation was 10-deep but as expected, the minutes were lopsided in favor of the starters.
HAWKSVILLE – Did you see enough of Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith Wednesday night?
How about Jeff Teague and Mo Evans?
Zaza Pachulia and Jason Collins?
I didn’t think so.
Sure, the Hawks did what they had to do in dispatching the Indiana Pacers in their season opener. But I expected more, namely in minutes for the reserves.
We’ve heard for weeks about all this improved depth and how much deeper this team is going to be this season. We saw it in the preseason.
But it wasn’t on display against the Pacers.
Sure, everyone played a minimum of 10 minutes and no one played more than 40 (though Joe Johnson was knocking on the door at 39:23). And they did win the game doing it this way.
But 13 minutes and 36 seconds for Crawford and 10:48 for Smith seems a bit light to me, particularly in a game where the Hawks needed every bit of firepower they could muster to hold of the scrappy Pacers.
“I feel like we kind of succumbed to the way they wanted to play and to the rotation they wanted us to use instead of milking that newly formed bench we brought in here,” said Mo Evans, who made the most of his limited time, piling p 12 points in just 15 minutes. “We’ve got to learn how to trust our second unit as well to go out there and play. We’ve got a lot of talent over there and I think we got a little nervous because they were out there making shots and then we had to extend our starters’ minutes a little longer than we probably wanted. That’s not going to work during those stretches when we have four games in five or six nights.”
Stretches like the one the Hawks will face this weekend with Washington and into the middle of next week’s Western Conference road swing.
Hawks coach Mike Woodson took several questions about his playing rotation after the game – in his defense he did play 10 men in the third quarter, something he never did last season.
“We’re all trying to get used to one another,” he said. “They’re especially trying to get used to me and what I’m expecting when they’re out on the floor. Overall, I thought it was a great effort on everybody’s part, and we were able to secure the win. And that’s what’s most important.”
THE CLOSER
Mike Bibby didn’t crank his offense up until late against the Pacers, scoring eight of his 10 points in the fourth quarter. It’s a new role for the Hawks’ veteran point guard, who is adjusting to so many different offensive options that have either matured or been added since last season.
“I’m going to be a little bit more aggressive,” Bibby said laughing. “Hey, it’s my 12th year. I still get first game jitters.”
He didn’t flinch in the fourth quarter, though, showing that he’s always willing to take and make big shots with the game on the line.
His 3-pointer with the Hawks trailing 101-100 with 8:05 to play put them ahead to stay and his running jumper with 7:28 left gave the Hawks another quick jolt. His 3-pointer with 2:43 left gave the Hawks a 115-105 lead and a little insurance.
But his best work might have been done in the facilitation of the Hawks’ offense all night.
Bibby was efficient and allowed his teammates to make plays of their own (his willingness to keep everyone in a good flow is easily one of his most underrated qualities).
“Mike was doing a great job of getting the ball in the right spots and I was just shooting with confidence,” Al Horford said after his 24-point, 16-rebound effort.
HARD TO MISS
If Johnson’s confidence in his teammates wasn’t sky-high before Wednesday’s game it is now.
After watching Horford and Josh Smith tote the load on both ends of the floor early, he was full of praise after the game.
“I know those guys worked on their games over the summer and you can tell,” he said. “I know it’s the first game, but you can tell they’ve been working. I’m glad they came back with the mindset that they have and that’s what it’s going to take to get us over the top.”
It worked against the Pacers. While many of the Hawks’ looked rattled early as the Pacers piled up the points, Smith and Horford were steadying forces.
“For it to be the first game, you have so many jitters and you’re so anxious to get out there and play,” Johnson said. “I just really wanted to get into the flow of the game early. But it doesn’t always work that way, so I just tried to pick my spots. Al and Josh played great tonight. I thought they were the two guys that got us over the hump.”
The proof was in the Hawks scoring edge inside. They pounded the Pacers 54-38 in the paint.
ROOKIE DEBUT
Another guy that didn’t seem at all fazed by the moment was Teague, the rookie point guard. He certainly wasn’t shy (he took for more shots than Crawford and finished with five points, four assists and three rebounds).
“He looked comfortable out there,” Marvin Williams said. “I like that about him. He’s fearless.”
THE BIG FINISH
Whatever complaints you want to make about the Hawks’ defensive effort through the first three quarters is valid. The fourth quarter, however, was another story.
They limited the Pacers to a 5-for-15 shooting effort (33 percent) and forced six turnovers, allowing just 15 points in the game’s final stanza.
“They’re a tough team from an offensive standpoint,” Woodson said. “They keep you on your heels by pushing the ball constantly and if you’re not back and matching up with their 3-point shooters, they’re capable of making shots like they did tonight. But I thought that fourth quarter, when we really had to nail it down defensively; guys stepped up and made the plays they had to make.”
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192 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
October 29th, 2009
6:28 pm
Marvin’s a better man to man defender, but Granger is a lot smoother and more versatile offensively. Both are good players, but I’d give Granger the edge.
niremetal
October 29th, 2009
7:22 pm
When comparing players in the most abstract sense, I don’t think anyone can give Marvin the edge with a straight face. Now who would make the best fit here, that’s a different story…particularly given that Granger is paid to be a franchise player while Marvin is paid to be a downgraded Tayshaun Prince…
MyView
October 29th, 2009
7:45 pm
My problem with the bench not playing is the long term effect. If we are going to continue to advance and improve come playoff time, then Woody is going to have to trust the bench more. Why burn the starters out so that they are ineffective come playoff time. Also, the only way the bench will gel is to get them minutes now. Sure it may cost a game somewhere down the road, but a good bench playing cohesively will win us games later.
If we can’t trust the bench against the Pacers of the world, then when will we?
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
8:11 pm
ROD FROM CP-I see you took my comments concerning Marvin and Granger personally, even though I mentioned no names and wasn’t addressing you. So, what you’re saying is your unbelievably superior basketball knowledge and unquestioned insight allows you to determine without question what Marvin Williams is and is not capable of accomplishing. Allow me to put your UNSUBSTANTIATED PERSONAL OPINIONS concerning Marvins scoring potential into perspective.
Let’s assume Marvin took the same 1277 shot attempts Granger took last yr. Substract his 622 shot attempts from Grangers 1277 and you get a difference of 655 more attempts. Multiply that difference by Marvins .458 shooting percentage and you get projected 299.99 made baskets. Multiply those made baskets by 2pts and you get 599.99 total pts. Since Marvin played 61gms last yr and Granger took his 1277 shots in 67gms, we’ll divide Grangers 67gms into the 599.99 total pts and end up with an average of 8.96PPG. Add 8.96PPG to Marvins 13.9PPG and you get a total projected average of 22.86PPG. Now that 22.86PPG obviously doesn’t factor in made 3pt baskets or additional made FT’s, which could easily push his projected average to the 25.8PPG range. Now, I don’t know what criteria you used, but this definitely brings your biased, self engratiating opinion of yourself, your basketball knowledge, and Marvins ability to average 20+PPG into serious question.
doc
October 29th, 2009
8:48 pm
ariose, great lead for the book. you have been around here long enough to know my pet peeve is rigged refs.
next thing is i agree whole heartedly marvin will be better at the four. he just doesnt have what it takes to be atop notch three. yes, we have three power forwards in the starting line up.
Melvin
October 29th, 2009
9:27 pm
doc,
Agree with your 8:48 post and Doug Collins. Marvin is more of a PF than he is a SF. He doesn’t have the skill/agility to be an elite SF and not sure that he will develop them either. I think he’s destiny to be a role player off the bench.
Rod from College Park
October 29th, 2009
9:36 pm
Ken,
I did not take anything personally. I responded to you because I was the one who started the topic on the last blog. Reading is fundamental. Why would I sit up and try figure out a freaking algebra equation to determine what Marvin would do if he got more shots. If, if was a fifth we’d all be drunk. If a horse had wings it would be a unicorn. They were both drafted in the same draft. Compare the numbers. Marvin is not better than Granger in any part of his game. Granger is a better defensive player as well. Who was asssigned to Joe in crunch time? Keep living in the world of what if’s, I will live in the world of what is.
I MUS WRITE
October 29th, 2009
9:45 pm
Rod – Marvin wont give you 25 pts a night as a first option. Granger is an All Star type talent.Marvin is a role player- If granger were on our team he would Be our #2 option behind Joe. Maybe a number 1 option if were talking about scoring only…… #4 Option are you serious? The man is ice cold he goes for 30 or more every time we play Indiana.
Terrell- I dont remember Joe flat out choking but he may have needed the Heimlik Maneuver a few times. (See 2009 Playoff series against Cleveland)
99 Bottles has drank the contents of his bottles….Burp!!!!
Minutes? Minutes? Minutes??? Come on Man we just started the season 26 hours ago. Give Coach X a break he played the bench, what else do you want the man to do. If we didnt bring the starters back in we might have lost the dam game. I agree with the starters getting rest but not at the expense of winning. “Hello Thats Why You Play The Games” Herm Edwards
Crawford /Teague should get about 18 and 15 respectively with Joe/Zaza getting about 30 combined minutes.
GRANDAD- Whass up mane,welcome!
I told yall to watch out for Chitown they are giving the Spurs fits right now.
I MUS WRITE
October 29th, 2009
9:54 pm
Al Horford played well last night, With the improved shot and him being more aggressive I think he may go for 17/11 a game this year which would help us alot,I just need to see the man get his shots against the Celtics,Cleveland,and Orlando’s of there world. Dwight is coming Thanxgiving Night so we’ll see
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 29th, 2009
9:56 pm
Ah, I’m disappointed I missed the opening night blog-fest last night. I was too attached to the T.V. to get on the computer. I was impressed with Al last night and Smitty was pretty impressive too. Joe looked like Joe from last year. Let’s get Crawdaddy in the game a little more and see what he can do. I’ll be at the game tomorrow night so I’ll be absent for the game again. How ’bout them Cavs?
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 29th, 2009
9:58 pm
Oh dear god, RodSam is already at it this early in the year? We’re in for a long year folks.
Rod from College Park
October 29th, 2009
10:15 pm
I MUS WRITE,
You must have been responding to Ken. I agree with everything you said. That was my point.
Ariose
October 29th, 2009
10:36 pm
Doc/Melvin…..meh…I guess IF he had the right mentality he COULD be a PF, but….IDK His Shot is defenetly a guard-style shot, which is why he has trouble getting it off on a post-up…..he’s also not great at finishing with contact….but he’s great from the FT line….I say he’s better suited at SF but that’s me……he’s not perfect for either. You could make that arguement for Josh and AL as far as ideal positions are concerned as well. As long as we win games, i’m not going to trigger a migrane trying to think about it lol!
Rod, Also remember Granger had to pay his dues in INDY early in his carrer with a limited role offensively behined Reggie, J.O’neal, Tinsley etc…luckily for him all of those vets were on their way out the door so he moved up the pecking order fairly quickly because of it. His numbers didn’t get monsterous until they left…..but it would’ve happend eventually…
Terrell
October 29th, 2009
11:22 pm
I MUS WRITE,
I must disagree with you about Marvin. He showed last year when JJ wasn’t able to go that he go be the go too guy.
Also, like I said Joe was hurt down the stretch. He was fatigued as well from having the usually guard the other team’s best player and then have to be the #1 scoring option for Atlanta. He won’t say it, but he was tired, and not just the tired you can fight out of. When your body is really fatigued you feel it and you need time to rest and heal.
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm
ROD FROM CP-my position wasn’t about comparing Marvin to Granger, but determing which player was a better fit for the Hawks. I also wanted to demonstrate that statistically speaking, Marvin could average 20PPG if placed in the right situation. While you may have been the one that brought it up, you certainly weren’t the only one that rendered comments on the subject.
You make absolute statements about Marvin being completely incapable of averaging 20PPG and being a poor DEF player with nothing to back it up, besides your personal BS. I backed up my position with solid statistical probability, and you claim you live in a world of what is? That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.
In reality, none of us can say with any degree of certainty whether Marvin can or cannot average 20PPG, but there’s absolutely nothing that indicates he couldn’t if placed in the right situation. Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.
darrell starks
October 30th, 2009
12:07 am
Ken there is no comparing between marvin and granger marvin game has been solid but not better, and granger game have been better every year, if granger was in a hawks uniform they would be in the contention for and nba title and maybe the best player on the team, he is a younger version of tracey mcgrady.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
I MUS WRITE
October 30th, 2009
12:22 am
Whadd up Rod….
Terell- Marvin put up those numbers for 4 or 5 games, a full season is a whole other situation. Marvin is solid but he doesnt have it in him to be the man night in and night out-think about it most of his points are set up by other people. On the break or for wide open jumpers -His dribble drive game still looks a little goofy as well so….
“Joe was hurt down the stretch”
Come on man… Willis Reed was hurt in the finals with the Knicks ,wasnt alive but i heard about it-even saw video.Yao Ming played a whole half in the WC Semis with a broken foot. Kobe Bryant played a full season with a torn ligament on his shooting hand. 1998 Jordan came off his death bed with the flu to beat Utah in the finals. You ever see Larry Birds fingers man!!!!…. Excuses are passports to mediocrity -an original peice by I.MUS WRITE
Terrell are you Terrell Barron by chance?
Clyde
October 30th, 2009
4:57 am
Comparing Mavin Williams to Granger is like comparing Sean Williams to Horford. HAHA
ROLL TIDE
KevinA
October 30th, 2009
5:18 am
Our preseason wins and the Pacer win was a balanced scoring attack between the front court and the back court. It is no surprise that Al and Josh had bigger numbers. It should also be no surprise that the JJ ISO was less prevalent. The question is can we rely on the front court against good interior defenses. I think not. But that does not mean we can still get 54 wins. Just the way it is folks. Another year? Very possible. Kids still maturing. Pacers game a great way to wipe out the taste of the Orlando mess.Go Hawks.
No reason for Bibby and JJ to be in the game after the five minute left time. Worst case scenario he brings them bk after a 2 min break. Odds are we don’t need them.
If you want to play your starters till the end then they need more bench time earlier.
vava74
October 30th, 2009
6:23 am
Danny Granger is 26 years old and is in his 4th pro season.
Marvin Williams is 23 years old and is in his 4th season as well, however, he played only 1 year of college bball.
Danny Granger’s stats whilst he was 22 years hold (equivalent to Marvin last year) and had other players ahead of him in the Pacer’s pecking order:
06-07 IND G82 GS57 MPG34,0 FG%0,459 3PT%0,382 FT%0,803 ORB1,4 DRB3,3 RPG4,6 ASS1,4 STL0,8 BLK0,7 TO1,65 PF3,00 PPG13,9
I don’t see too much difference with regard to Marvin’s game, at the same age and with about the same amount of truly organized BBall time in his legs (Marvin has more games since the NBA season is longer than college BBall, but games are not everything) and given the same type of opportunity to shine.
People tend to forget that Marvin is still very young.
vava74
October 30th, 2009
6:34 am
The key for tonight’s game is not Arenas. I couldn’t care less if he scored 50 on us.
The key is to contain Butler, defend the perimeter against the opposing 3pt shots (a weakness in both of our last 2 games) and keep a good defensive composure against the Wizards’ bench who absolutely creamed Dallas: Blatche and Foye.
Iguodala adapting to another coach | "Tell them … tell the team to bear down"
October 30th, 2009
7:00 am
[...] FEATURED EX-CAT LINK: Veteran guard Mike Bibby still has “first-game jitters” (Atlanta Journal-Constitution) [...]
vava74
October 30th, 2009
8:06 am
Again about Marvin-Granger:
If we trust boxscores (for instance, Yahoo and NBA.com do not match), Granger had a very nice game statistically, however, he was -19 on the (+-) stat.
By far the worst of the team, whilst playing only(?) 23 minutes (are these minutes correct and is the +- stat correct?).
If this indeed correct, this would indicate, to say the least and as it is usually the norm, that when a team depends too much on a player, the final result, if not in all games, is negative in the long run during a season.
richbrave
October 30th, 2009
8:36 am
doc:
From 12:35 p.m. yesterday. Sorry I missed your note and that you’ll not attend the HAWKS?WIZ rumble #1 tonight. Been busy setting up in an antiques mall. Being an historian, I’m sure you realize I’ve collected many items of historical interest. This time however, I’m putting myself and my wife on display, heh,heh,heh. After almost seventy years we’ve earned it.
GeeMack
October 30th, 2009
8:53 am
Man Ya’ll better leave Ken alone. Dude comes with that heat. I pride myself on being a stat man, and dude taught me something. Do your thang Ken. Statically that was very impressive. Ken even when we disagree I always enjoy your blogs homie.
doc
October 30th, 2009
9:36 am
cool richie, so cool. enjoy and prosper in the moment.
from your comments i guess the lines are drawn tonight though. heh heh friendship sounds like it deteriorates for about three hours tonight.
let me know what you think i’ll be looking in a different direction.
Fork Tongue
October 30th, 2009
9:44 am
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
3:12 pm
98 BOTTLES-first of all, this forum is all about offering one’s opinions. While some opinions are more informed than others, they’re opinions just the same. It’s unfair and rather self promoting to label someone’s opinion a lie and that someone a lier.
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm
ROD FROM CP-That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.
Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.
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O'Brien
October 30th, 2009
9:50 am
If Marvin was getting the same amount of shots as Granger, would he have the same scoring average, I dont know. But in my opinion, Marvin just does not have what it takes to be a #1 option.
He did step up when Joe was out for 2 road games last year, but if I’m not mistaken, those 2 games were against Minnesota and another scrub team (was it Charlotte?). I want to see Marvin step up more consistently against good teams.
I look forward to how he matches up with Caron Butler tonight
Fork Review Board
October 30th, 2009
9:55 am
In the spirit of fair play lets recognize that opinion are freely expressed and not to be mistaken for fact. Any one can freely voice an opinion with out being vebally admonished for having an opinion.
Lets be true to others and ourselves. Dis-prove the other persons opinions. Dont smear and obscure their opinion with hate messages.
Fork Tongue
October 30th, 2009
9:44 am
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
3:12 pm
98 BOTTLES-first of all, this forum is all about offering one’s opinions. While some opinions are more informed than others, they’re opinions just the same. It’s unfair and rather self promoting to label someone’s opinion a lie and that someone a lier.
Ken Strickland
October 29th, 2009
11:28 pm
ROD FROM CP-That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.
Yet, you continue to regurgitate your outlandish, unsubstantiated OPINIONS, as if they were documented facts, in an attempt to justify your preconceived notions about any player you don’t like. IT’S PAINFULLY OBVIOUS YOU HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OPINIONS THAT’S TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, AND THAT’S WHAT IS.
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Mike N.
October 30th, 2009
9:57 am
I also enjoyed reading Ken’s statistical breakdown. Marvin just has to show some agressiveness and demand 12-14 shots a game. That is not asking much in 32 minutes. With his shot and ability to get to the foul line he is an 18 point scorer with an average of 12-14 shots per game
ILL-logical
October 30th, 2009
10:11 am
Tonight’s game should provide more fodder for the Marvin and how good is he debate that continues to be a flash point for some. The Wizards seem to be the real deal this year and they are out to prove that last season was a fluke; marred by injury and chemisrty issues. With their go to guy back and seemingly in good form and a new coach, their victory over Dallas , on the road, strongly suggests that they are going to be a force in the conference this year. And Marvin’s play against Caron Butler will be key if the Hawks are to prevail.
Ken Strickland
October 30th, 2009
11:00 am
Let’s let this Marvin vs Grander issue rest, we have the Wizards to deal with tonight. We can’t wait until the 4th qtr to play solid DEF tonight. Of course, it will help if Washington doesn’t shoot lights out like the Pacers did. For those who think Woodson played JJ too many mins and didn’t give his bench enough mins, even though he played 10 players 10mins or more, look at what Washington’s new HC did. It seems Flip has decided to shorten his rotation and play only 8 players meaningful mins. In fact, he rode 3 of his starters to the tune of 38mins each and 2 bench players 30 and 35mins respectively. If we run and attack the basket like we did against the Pacers, we can take advangate of that.
The key for us defensively all season will be to limit penetration and take the pressure off of our frontline players having to switch, which will allow them to stay focused on the player they’re assigned to guard. That will also allow them to remain in better rebounding position, which is the key to us being able to run and score easy baskets in transition.
I’d like to see the Wizards use only 8 players while trying to keep up with our guard rotation of Teague, Crawford, JJ, Bibby and our frontline rotation of Smoove, Marvin, Horford, Zaza, JSmith and MEvans, especially if we push the ball. How effective will GArenas be, especially on DEF, after a dose of Teague and Crawford’s speed and quickness? That’s something opposing guards haven’t had to deal with before this yr.
I’m really excited about seeing how much we improve when playing on the road. I feel that will be the true test for determing how much we’ve improved. That’s also when the use of our bench will become most important. If we can be consistently competitive on the road, and win more gms, it will help us be more competitive against the elite teams. GOOD LUCK TONIGHT YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rod from College Park
October 30th, 2009
11:03 am
Ken Strickland,
“You make absolute statements about Marvin being completely incapable of averaging 20PPG and being a poor DEF player with nothing to back it up, besides your personal BS. I backed up my position with solid statistical probability, and you claim you live in a world of what is? That world of what is you live in has you being too dilusional to differeniate between your opinions and facts.”
Ken you actually do have some knowledge as, I agree with you on some things you post, but you are totally wrong here. You use statistical analysis to predict the probability of something to determine the outcome. In your statement you tell me I am using opinions? I am actually using facts, because it has already happened. I can base what I say about Marvin on facts. YOU CAN’T. I don’t need probability. In your probability analysis did you consider what Marvin would do if he were guarded by the best player on the other team, or even double-teamed. Do you still think he could average over 20 points a game. I hypothesize that he could not. Most of his points with the Hawks are wide open jump shots or drives which come from the result of Joe being double or triple teamed. If say a Ron Artest was told to guard Marvin all game and never leave him, can you actually say that he would score 20 points in that game, or better yet 25.8 as Granger did last year? I say no, and that is based on facts because he can’t do it in an ideal situation, with the other teams worse defenders guarding him or not guarding him at all. Again, showing other people on the board like GeeMAck that you took college or graduate level statistics courses does not impress me. This is a basketball forum not a statistics class. I am stating facts, you are not. Or let me correct that, I am giving my OPINION, which is based on facts. THE FACTS ARE THAT GRANGER HAS PROVEN THAT HE IS A MUCH BETTER PLAYER THAN MARVIN. Good job Fork Toungue, hypocrisy at it finest. Don’t take yourself so seriously. You can be wrong sometimes.
O'Brien
October 30th, 2009
11:39 am
Ken,
I look forward to Teague improving his shot and his range, because there will be some games where Bibby is not fast enough to keep up with the opposing PG. That being said, if Bibby can stay in front of his man tonight, that will cut down on their penetration.
And the Hawks must push the tempo again, especially when they get a rebound. When we push the ball, our offense is less reliant on iso-JJ, and there is much better ball movement.
With JJ guarding Arenas tonight, I hope he is not concerned about expending too much energy on the defensive end. Establish the front court early, and JJ should be able to carry us late.
Fork Review Board
October 30th, 2009
12:03 pm
Rod from College Park,it important that, we dont admonish an opinion by offering another opinion. It is preferred ot dis-prove opinion’s with facts, not another opinion. No one can say that Ken isnt a motivate debater. He is, got to admire his zeal!
Thanks for the shout out!
Fork Review Board
October 30th, 2009
12:06 pm
*its important
**It is preferred to dis-prove
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 30th, 2009
12:39 pm
Yaaaay, a win to start the season. Sekou, are you sure Al Horford had an injury. Wow, he sure didn’t play like it. He was spectacular in the opener. He was definitely “Boss”. Well sure was good to see Al and Bibby on the court and in action. Those guys greatly contributed to the win on Wednesday.
I agree the Hawks turned the intensity up on the Pacers in the 4th quarter so they could get the win. They made the right plays at the right time to get the much deserved win.
As far as minutes go I didn’t like seeing that JJ played 39 minutes. Perhaps 4 minutes less would be better, or maybe 39 minutes sometimes here or there but not so often. Don’t want to get into old habits. Was Jason Collins hurt or something? Would have been good to see him in action for a few minutes.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 30th, 2009
12:59 pm
Woodson said he’ll clear up any confusion about where the priorities should be with his new theory. ‘”Every game is important, I don’t care where it’s played,” he said. “But without a doubt, it’s more important to take care of your business here at home. We’ve got to win at home.”
HMMMM, yeah winning at home is important but that takes care of 41 games. What about the other 41 games? WTF! In my opinion road games should be of equal importance to home games if your goal is to become elite. OH LORD, SMH :-/! His theory should be win period and not just at home. Winning should be the priority and not just at home. Again just win at home and on the road. I AM LOSING MY PATIENCE. Okay let’s say the Hawks go undefeated at home and win no games on the road. I’m sorry I’m just not buying into that theory. GO FIGURE!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 30th, 2009
1:03 pm
“I put it all on our fans,” Josh Smith said. “They’re the ones that have turned Philips Arena into what it is. We feed off of them when we’re here, and we struggle without them on the road. The best teams in the league, the best of the very best, don’t care where they play. We have to adopt that sort of attitude of wanting to silence crowds on the road while still taking care of our business when we’re here.”
OKAY NOW THAT’S A PLAN I CAN GET WITH! TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS ON THE ROAD AND AT HOME. AGAIN WINNING NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE SHOULD BE THE THEORY.
Ken Strickland
October 30th, 2009
1:07 pm
ROD FROM CP-allow me to give you the same advise DOC once gave me, GIVE IT A REST. Granger is a better scorer than Marvin, but that wasn’t my point of discussion. You make an issue of me presenting statistics, well, as least I had something intelligent to present. You appear to be the kind of person that when caught with your pants down, you try to hide your exposed parts by turning around to face the wall, while not having the sense to realize you’re exposing your butt.
OBRIAN-agreed. The only way I can see Washington improving their DEF is if FLIP has designed some sort of team concept, because the majority of their players are strickly OFF minded. They are the type of team that can blow you off the court if they’re hitting their outside shots. They’re soft up the middle, and that’s were we should attack them. The play of our frontline will determine the outcome of this gm. We should have the advantage at PF and C. Marvins ability to offset CButler’s production will be key.
Forcing him to be more of a jumpshooter and being strong on the boards himself will help neutralize Butler’s efforts. The same formula will work for JJ against Arenas. I believe the combination of Bibby, Crawford and Teague will give us the edge at PG. Man, wouldn’t it be nice if we could combine Joe and Josh Smith? Add Joe Smith’s jumpshooting ability, along with his savy and inside ability, to Smoove’s athleticism and shotblocking ability, and you would have a perennial Allstar for certain.
If Horford continues to play like he did against the Pacers, especially if he continues to effectively make that jumpshot, I can see him becoming a stronger more athletic version of former Celtic center Dave Cowens, but with less shooting range.
FORK REVIEW BOARD-you basically said in one sentence what I’ve been trying to get SAMUEL to understand. When he disagrees with someone, or someone disagrees with him, and he has no facts to support his OPINION, or logical response to their facts and/or opinions, instead of accepting the possibility that his opinion might not be the better of the two, he resorts to attacking the messenger instead of the message. When dealing with opinions on any subject, there’s no way for every opinion to be correct. Often, it’s not a matter of one opinion being right or wrong, it’s just a matter of some are more logical and/or more informed than others.
I really like our team, and all of the players we have on it, so I’m not in favor of trading any one of them just because they have a bad gm or can’t stop a certain Allstar calibur player from have an Allstar performance. Even when I was making my case for starting Teague over Bibby, I never said I wanted Bibby traded, because I like what he brings to our team. I especially love the assassin type of mentality he displays in the clutch. After sticking a clutch 3pointer, he just turns around and walks away, no high fiving, jumping around or showing any emotion. It’s like he’s saying to everyone else that’s doing all of those things, WHAT IN THE HELL ELSE DID YOU EXPECT!!! I LOVE IT!
Rod from College Park
October 30th, 2009
1:37 pm
Ken,
You presentation was not intelligent, it was a hypothesis which can be disproven by facts. Do you rellly think I would take any advise from you or DOC? Your parable or whatever it was supposed to be really did not prove anything. Granger is a better player period. Continue to live in your fantasy world, where Woodson is a terrible coach and Marvin is a better player than Granger. I’ll continue to live in the real world. No advise needed.
jerrywest
October 30th, 2009
2:01 pm
No Mo Iso Joe
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Grandad
October 30th, 2009
3:02 pm
I haven’t read the whole debate, however, what N.D. stated above, seemed to be the most succinct. If the question is, would you prefer Marv as a Hawk, then the answer is absolutely. Granger: not known as a defender, not known to be clutch, and benefits from Indy’s system. Please, never compare off. stats when one guy plays in Woody’s system.
Terrell
October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm
I MUS WRITE,
No I’m not Terrell Barron, but you did make some good points about Yao Ming being hurt. Yao wasn’t hurt, he was injured and he did struggle. What’s the difference between hurt and injured. You can play hurt, it’s not the best idea but you can, but when your injured it’s almost impossible to play as effectively as you want to. The wear and tear of all the minutes JJ had to play last year guarding the best offensive threat most nights for the other team and then trying to be the #1 scorer for us hurt him. You can tell down the stretch he was tired. Then, in the playoffs he sprained his ankle and that’s a painful injury and while we didn’t see it he was feeling it. Just watch, this year, if Woodson uses the bench like he did last game where JJ doesn’t have to play a lot of “hard” minutes then we’ll be fine.
Grandad
October 30th, 2009
3:18 pm
To Sautee and I MUS WRITE: Thanks for the welcome.
cp
October 30th, 2009
3:37 pm
If the Hawks are going to win tonight then they better play some defense. I think its going to be a good game and hopefully we come out on top. I think Crawford gets more minutes tonight if he is not in foul trouble.
Terrell
October 30th, 2009
3:38 pm
I MUS Write,
About Marvin, yes it was only 4 or 5 games, but just like you question me how can you make the claim that only after 4 of 5 games of becoming the go to guy that he can’t do it?
You can’t put anybody in the same catergory as MJ and LB. I love JJ but he’s not MJ or LB and neither are any of these guys we call superstars in the NBA. That’s 2 totally different generations of basketball that you are trying to compare.
enough already
October 30th, 2009
3:44 pm
Grandad = Sautee
Mike Woodson
October 30th, 2009
3:50 pm
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Mike Woodson's Motto
October 30th, 2009
3:53 pm
“Unorthodox offensives schemes dont matter, as long as we secure the win”
“Securing wins vs. mediocre teams, 1 ugly game at a time”