Cut Day!
The Mario West era came to an abrupt end before practice Wednesday. He was one of three players the Hawks cut to trim the roster to 13 players.
HAWKSVILLE – A group that numbered 20 just a few weeks ago is now down to just 13.
It was cut day at the Hawks’ practice facility Wednesday, and the scene was grim.
Mario West and Courtney Sims got the word that their time was up before practice, so there was already a feeling that something (or more accurately someone) was missing.
But the gut-punch came later when rookie center Garret “Big Glacier” Siler got his pink slip afterwards.
As his teammates filed into the locker room each one glanced at the big fella with one eyebrow raised. He returned fire with a hollow look in his eyes and the peace sign. Even though they all knew this was not only a possibility but most likely a probability, it didn’t make the event any easier to swallow. Othello Hunter is the only free agent camper that remains from the army of eight that showed up with designs on landing one of the (three) open roster spots available.
Second-year forward Othello Hunter is the last man standing. No one should be surprised. He made the team the same way last year. And he’s gotten loads better since then. So he his inclusion was well earned (the Hawks’ roster stands at 13 players heading into the final two preseason games before next week’s regular season opener against Indiana).
Hawks coach Mike Woodson was worn out after having to speak to all three players. He was the one that championed West’s cause two years ago, when the energetic but undrafted rookie from Georgia Tech put on a hustle showcase in training camp to make the team.
“People probably thought I was crazy and didn’t know what I was doing,” Woodson said. “But I wasn’t crazy. This kid is probably the hardest working kid I’ve ever coached as far as coming early, staying late and making every single second of practice competitive. And when we put him in the game, he did some good things for us. And over the time he was here he got better. So this is tough, really tough. Anytime you cut a kid it’s a tough day. But for me, it’s tougher than you can ever imagine because I became so attached to him and his work ethic. That’s what you try and teach young guys. That’s the first part of being a player in this league.”
It wasn’t easy for the regulars to watch guys like West, Sims and Siler leave, either. After all, relationships were formed. Friendships were cultivated. Good times were had by all.
“It’s tough because I’ve been in their shoes before,” Zaza Pachulia said. “So this hurts me in so many ways. You get used to having guys around, especially when they are guys with great personalities like the guys we had here. They brought so much positive energy to this team. They were unselfish. And they listen to you and they’re trying to get better. It would be different if they weren’t such great guys.”
The 13th man on a 12-man team as a young teenager, Pachulia talked about the feelings he had on cut day years ago for the junior national team in his native Georgia. “I had all my bags packed thinking I was making the team and all my friends back home thought I’d made it, too,” he said. “I was only 14 at the time, but it felt like I was already in the big time.”
He was crushed when he learned that he was the odd man out.
“It was such an exciting time for me just being their in the training camp,” Pachulia said. “I thought I was going to Italy. And then when they told me … I will never forget that day. I used that as motivation to get better and work even harder. And that’s how these guys have to take this, as motivation. It has to give them energy and make them want to fight more to make it. And they’re good guys, so you know good things will happen for them. Hard work always pays off at some point. You just have to stay positive.”
Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has NBA experience, so finding another job won’t be hard. West has two years of NBA experience under his belt and could chase his fortunes with another NBA team or explore his options overseas. Siler’s a behemoth with plenty of ceiling. Pro basketball is obviously his future.
However, he was still trying to get over the initial shock of the news when I saw him last. He said he has just spoken to his agent and that he would figure out a plan for his next step.
It wouldn’t surprise me if any of these guys showed up on the Hawks’ radar again, maybe even this season.
“Hopefully,” Siler said with a half smile. “I guess we’ll see what happens down the road.”
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481 comments Add your comment
G-Dot
October 21st, 2009
3:28 pm
Man this hurts. I just knew in my heart Rio was going to make it.
G-Dot
October 21st, 2009
3:30 pm
Oh yeah I was first. Sekou do you see the Hawks going after any other veteran who may have been released?
Wes
October 21st, 2009
3:30 pm
Good luck Mario! A lot of teams need someone on their roster that sets the tone and provides a great example of a real professional athlete.
ILL-logical
October 21st, 2009
3:31 pm
Hopefully all of these guys will find work either in the NBA or abroad.
Thanks and good luck to all of you.
A Fan
Melvin
October 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
Dang, I was rooting for Siler. Though he would be worth at least a 1 or 2 yr contract with a team opt for the 2nd yr..
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
Cosign all 4 of the above posts
jerrywest
October 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
Wolves and Hawks were the only 2 teams interested in Siler. Wolves just picked up a project center from the Mavs for a 2nd round pick. Very bad day for Siler.
Dan
October 21st, 2009
3:40 pm
Sad news….especially sad for Mario. Hope that guy goes overseas and makes a lot of money. He deserves it. Loved watching him play.
I MUS WRITE
October 21st, 2009
3:42 pm
These cut are not a suprise at all….Good luck to Rio,Sims,and Siler finding work.
Hunter made it because we need reserve SF coming off the bench and he improved his game alot in one short summer. The guys that got cut should look to do the same. If rio had any kind of handle or shot he would be a dangerous player the way he goes after it….O well
Sekou- why dont you have a pictue up on the sports page with the rest of the columnist. I mean you have to look all over the page to find your blog. Dam …Do your employers dislike you or something? just curious
blonju
October 21st, 2009
3:42 pm
amen to the previous posts… it’s amazing how upset real hawks fans are about a guy who plays about 100 minutes in a season… but i echo the same sentiment… ‘rio was the best 13th man in nba history! sekou, do you see the hawks bringin in a 14th man in the next week? if so, who is on the radar?
I MUS WRITE
October 21st, 2009
3:45 pm
Nir are you really co signing Melvins post. Siler was’nt drafted and according to you all undrafted players are garbage. Now you think he should have gotten a 1 year deal with a team option for the second year. You making me dizzy dud with all of your flip flopping………… I know what ur thinking and no im not going to let it go.
rich
October 21st, 2009
3:48 pm
I had hope they would use the d league and put Siler down there for playing and experience. Don’t think they use that option well.
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
Actually, I co-signed the first four posts…Melvin and I put ours up simultaneously. I don’t co-sign his post, although I do wish Siler well. Nice try, though. Also nice try on twisting my views on undrafted players. I ain’t gonna bite.
Sekou Smith
October 21st, 2009
3:51 pm
Don’t see a 14th man on the horizon boys and girls. I think the 13 you see might be it for the time being.
jerrywest
October 21st, 2009
3:56 pm
Someone please tell me the pros and cons of Othello. thanks.
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
3:56 pm
NBA teams aren’t allowed to “assign” players to the D-League without giving them a guaranteed contract. So if we signed Siler and sent him to the D-League, he still would have taken up the 14th roster spot.
I actually was hoping we’d keep both West and Hunter. This summer, my order of preference was Hunter-West-Siler. At some point after the Joe Smith signing, I flipped that to West-Hunter-Siler. After the axe fell on West, I was still hoping we’d keep both Hunter and Siler. But Sund kept his word and kept only 1 of the 8 invitees. I get keeping one roster spot open, but keeping more than that open seems unnecessary unless Sund is convinced that he’s going to either sign someone that another team cuts or else make a mid-year multiplayer trade. I honestly doubt that Siler will pan out, but I’d rather have seen him get that 14th spot than see it go to no one.
Big Ray
October 21st, 2009
3:58 pm
Well that cinches it. Good luck to the “dearly departed.”
reedeak
October 21st, 2009
3:59 pm
Is collins really better than Siller?
rich
October 21st, 2009
4:00 pm
Sekou , What the status on Stackhouse?
reedeak
October 21st, 2009
4:05 pm
This years Hawks team kind of reminds me of the 2004 Pistons team in a way. Two or three really good players and a bunch of guys that know their role and play as a team. If this team gets rolling it could be an awesome year.
cp
October 21st, 2009
4:07 pm
Like I said in another blog, Mario’s game did not improve. He still could not shoot nor dribble. Playing hard is nice but he needed to add some other dimension to his game. I wish all the guys luck. I had been pulling for Hunter the whole summer so I’m happy he made it.
Sautee
October 21st, 2009
4:10 pm
Ken Strickland,
Re: your posts last blog (and the one before)
Do you think Jeff Teague is as good as CP3, Williams, Parker and Nash?
If NOT, then why are you referencing THEIR stats? I’m NOT trying to defend my methodology in using A / TO ratio. I’m talking about THIS team.
Here’s what I replied to you two blogs ago, but apparently you had passed on and never saw it:
Ken,
I’ll agree to disagree. I clearly added IMHO, meaning exactly that. I’m sorry if my opinion makes you doubt your side of the argument or threatens you in some way. Frankly, I’m surprised. You usually allow plenty of give-and-take, but somehow I’ve pushed your hot button.
Before Bibby got here we lost WAY too many games with late turnovers that gave opponents extra chances to score. That was the MOST notable difference when he arrived.
The reason I used A / TO ratio is that it shows a point guards’ efficiency. I TOTALLY agree with you that some of Bibby’s efficiency is because he takes fewer chances. I’d say that up til now that’s EXACTLY what a young team needed.
And Bibby WILL have to rachet it up a notch JUST BECAUSE TEAGUE WILL PUSH HIM.
If Teague shows that he has the talents to play like CP3 and Deron, ok fine start him. But there is a reason that he wasn’t a top 5 pick like they were.
Don’t get me wrong, Ken, I LOVE what I’ve seen of this kid, but I’ll stand by my statement. I don’t care if you think my argument is weak. I can handle that.
By the way, my use of the ratio was not the be-all-end-all of my point (which you made it out to be). I wasn’t defending the use of Bibby relative to ANY PG, just for THIS team, which is all we have to deal with. Therefore, despite the obvious fact that I’d rank Bibby behind at LEAST a dozen other point guards, his ratio shows that on THIS team, he takes care of the ball better than others that we have.
We can disagree. But I’ll err on the side of FEWER turnovers every time.
Melvin
October 21st, 2009
4:12 pm
Ok, I will say it. I’m not a big fan of Hunter but I wish him well. He’s a tweener and they come a dime a dozen. Heck we could have let them all go and sign a true wingman like Stackhouse, Wally Z, Green, Shawnee Williams or heck, I would prefer Rashaun McCants over Hunter….
I MUS WRITE
October 21st, 2009
4:14 pm
Twisting your views …give me a break Perry Mason. I dont have to twist your words less than 2 weeks ago you were bashing undrafted free agents – Put up a list and everything….Its in black and white. I was so hoping you would bite (no homo) I aient got shyt to do today …… O well Guess i’ll go pump sum iron – as soon as my head stops spinning that is. I get really dizzy wathching you jump back and forth over the fence.
Sekou= i’ll just form my own opinions since you didnt answer. maybe they think your contributions are not picture worthy or maybe you’re the lowest man on the toddem pole which explains why i need a manifying galss to find ur blog. dam shame how they do a brother huh? lol stand up for yourself dude ….come on
swatguy
October 21st, 2009
4:20 pm
Well, what’s done is done.All 5 of the last cuts will play this year if it be their will.
We now have a roster of flexability. Surely by February another piece will be added(a wing or point).
Coach can finalize the rotation and see what we have.
clearly the strategy is to make sure we have enough Bigs to battle eith pushing Teague with minutes in the rotation (12-15).
BigTimeTECHFan
October 21st, 2009
4:39 pm
Give the 14 spot to Dennis Rodmen, he’s looking to make a comeback.
Sekou Smith
October 21st, 2009
4:40 pm
I MUS asked:
Sekou- why dont you have a pictue up on the sports page with the rest of the columnist. I mean you have to look all over the page to find your blog. Dam …Do your employers dislike you or something? just curious
I’m not a “columnist” money, that’s why you can’t find my picture on the front with the others. Simple question, simple answer.
Mike N.
October 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
Good luck to all those guys…however it seems that bum Randolph Morris cost West or Siler a spot on our roster. I think I can say for all of us that we are much bigger fans of West and Siler then Morris. Now Morris needs to show us that he has improved this summer cause he will not be in street clothes this season and could get some spot minutes.
cp
October 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
Wally Z has lost a step and plays no defense. The Mavs told Shawnee Williams to not even show up around the team. He stays in trouble to go along with very little game. Rashaun McCants is hurt. The Mavs decided to go with youth over Stackhouse last year. Gerald Green from what I saw of him last year improved but his bball iq still remains a big question mark. I would have loved to give the kid a shot but we did not. A lot of guys you named bring no more than Hunter and a guy like Shawnee brings baggage and we have done pretty good lately with keeping knuckleheads off this team.
Traceman
October 21st, 2009
4:57 pm
Good luck Rio, you will be missed.
GeeMack
October 21st, 2009
5:13 pm
reedeak
Come on man. You can’t be serious. This team looks nothing like the 04 Pistons. This teams not nearly as good defensively. I think the times were different as well back then. It was easier to compete in the east. During the 04 season there 3 500 or below teams that made the playoffs. The Hawks made some great moves but they are missing that one superstar needed to get to that level.
gwite
October 21st, 2009
5:36 pm
GeeMack, who was that “one superstar(s)” on that Pistons team?
RomeDawg
October 21st, 2009
5:42 pm
Well put GeeMack. Good luck to West! Being a dawg it ain’t easy to pull for a jacket, but he was one class act. Surely a NBA team somewhere needs a spark plug like him on their bench and as CMW said, “to make every minute of practice count”.
Ramon
October 21st, 2009
6:02 pm
Seriously, THIS Hawks team has a chance to be better than that 04 Pistons team. That Detroit team would finish with a 4th seed in THIS eastern division. The thing that Hawks team had that the Hawks didn’t have last season was all in the swag and attitude. They knew they were going to beat you because they had nothing to lose. As crazy as Rasheed was, Billups was just as crazy, but on a quiet tip. I see that same type swag in Horford, Smoove, Crawford, and Teague. Now how long will it translate to defense, we will see.
vava74
October 21st, 2009
6:07 pm
I agree with nire when he says that we are short in the SG/SF spots and that if anyone goes down it will be difficult to keep the rotation balanced.
However, West’s game was very limited and his progress apparently null.
I always liked Othello and contrary to West he seems to be progressing significantly. If he develops(ed) a shot from 15/17 feet and some kind of handle/driving game he will be quite useful as a combo F. If not, he will be a taller version of West.
Siler was way too raw to merit the 13th spot. The 14th? Maybe, but in it’s absence, we could not keep him.
JSS
October 21st, 2009
6:07 pm
Well, the Hawks have rolled the dice… I want to thank them for taking a chance and inviting Garret to camp and giving him the “opportunity.” As for Garret, Sekou, when Utah’s coach (D-League) was here, did they make overtures to Siler at all? Moreover, I hope Mario takes a chance on Europe and really work on his shot… He doesn’t need to linger stateside pigeonholing his game. Oh, Randolph is a very lucky man…
vava74
October 21st, 2009
6:13 pm
Since we now have a body of English Language Caretakers, here are the corrections (I hope I get it right): “…at the SG/SF…” and “…its absence…”.
This second error was the courtesy of the iPhone.
Ras Kass
October 21st, 2009
6:29 pm
“So he his inclusion was well earned (the Hawks’ roster stands at 13 players heading into the final two preseason games before next week’s regular season opener against Indiana).”
Tribe
October 21st, 2009
6:32 pm
Thanks for pointing out “georgia”, nire. I didn’t write that though
Good job
J
October 21st, 2009
6:47 pm
Sekou,
As an avid NBA/Hawks fan, I just want to say us Hawks fans are blessed to have you covering the Hawks. I read many NBA beat Writers and you are honestly my favorite.
Mario West really was an asset to our team and his contributions will be missed. Given the additions this Summer coupled with the quite unHawks like retention of our Free Agents, I thought he might be a loss. Did think ASG would come up with the money to keep Siler though.
With the departure of Mr. Bisher, perhaps it is time for you to be Columnist. I realize that Newspapers in general are in a perilous state, but your work covering the Hawks truly stands out.
Time for that “Columnist Money”. Hopefully.
Cheers,
J
TheHawksFan
October 21st, 2009
7:01 pm
The Hawks are FULL of CRAP!!!! They could have carried 15 players. The guys invited to camp had un guaranteed deals to Jan. Mario and Sims played well last week while Smith Evans and Crawford were out with injuries. Why not give them until Jan to prove thier worth in those 30 plus games? Along with the option of cutting them at anytime. Thats what Mario has done the past 2 years anyway. Dont want to hear that money CRAP either. Why bring 20 guys into camp FOR ONE WEEK knowing only 13 will make it? Thats a HUGE waste of money. It tells you that are some SERIOUS POWER STRUGGLES going on within. Thats some Miami Heat Crap right there. The Hawks lose 10,000 cool points today!!
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
7:09 pm
*ding*
Melvin
October 21st, 2009
7:28 pm
In case anyone is interested in Preseason ball. Below is live link to Celtics/Cavs game….
http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-nba-2.html
Melvin
October 21st, 2009
7:40 pm
Like I said before, Celtics are my preseason favorites (excluding Hawks). Stomping a completely health Cavs team in Cleveland without KG and Ray….
Zach
October 21st, 2009
7:57 pm
Sekou,
What do you think about ESPN’s predictions for the hawks this winter? To every hawks fans great surprise no one picked us to win the division. The majority of the picks had us at 4 or 5, but the lovely Chris Sheradin picked us to finish 7th stating:
“Mike Bibby didn’t look like he had a lot left in the tank last season, and I was surprised they re-signed him and thought Andre Miller would have been a better fit. Joe Johnson is entering a contract year, but newcomer Jamal Crawford likes to put up 20 shots a night, too. Hmmm.”
Opinions, are you surprised that we’re not getting too much love from the ocho?
CJ Dawg
October 21st, 2009
8:04 pm
I live in Augusta and watched Siler play alot. This kid has amazing ‘want to’ and he continued to get better. Besides that, he is like a bigger Wes Unseld. He really learned how to throw an outlet pass…and the kid is as big as the side of a mountain. Someone will pick him up and get a great player, even if it takes a few years. He will never be flashy…but he WILL be a constant 10 point, 12 rpg guy. Nobody can move him in the post. Bad move Hawks.
O'Brien
October 21st, 2009
8:16 pm
As the 13th guy, does Hunter even dress? Or will he just keep Speedy’s spot (on the bench and in a suit) warm?
The Hawks dont really need a 14th guy. If there is an injury, they can find somebody in the D-League or an out of work veteran.
I am ready for the season to begin though. I hope the Hawks can get off to a good start like they did last year. That would be “huge for the ballclub”.
cdog
October 21st, 2009
8:34 pm
the hawks must find a way to bring back garret siler and mario west. these players are winners
superbasketballfan
October 21st, 2009
8:34 pm
the hawks should not have let siler go mike woodson and rick sund are idiots collins and j.smith just may not be there after this season. the hawks need a good 7 footer.
Big Ray
October 21st, 2009
9:06 pm
cdog ,
I don’t know about you, but I wonder if Siler would have gotten cut if RandMo wasn’t already under contract? As for ‘Rio, I think he was a victim of two things: his lack of offensive capability, and the economy. If we were keeping 14 guys instead of 13, he’d probably still be here. Same for Siler if we were keeping 15.
Sekou Smith
October 21st, 2009
9:09 pm
Zach,
Most of the guys that write for ESPN are either friends, acquaintances and guys I admire, or all three. But when it comes to the Hawks, their opinions don’t move my needle at all.
When the Hawks were awful a few years ago they were all right all the time (it wasn’t that hard for anyone to predict doom after 13-69). But in the last two years they’ve been as wrong as could be where the Hawks are concerned, so why you would expect them to see it your way now is beyond me.
I don’t trust their opinions on the Hawks any more than I do their opinions on the Blazers, Sixers, Bulls, Jazz or any other team that isn’t at the top or bottom of the league right now. But not because I don’t think they know what they are talking about. The teams in the middle of that mix are always the toughest ones to read and the guys who cover the team on a daily basis are usually the best sources for these sorts of things.
And thanks for the love J. From your keyboard to the ears of someone. Ha.
Tbird
October 21st, 2009
9:09 pm
Siler as a consistent 10-12 guy??? He averaged 6.5 rebounds in D-II!!!! Sure there is alot of developmental possibilities but 12 rpg in the NBA??? Again….NO OTHER TEAM INVITED HIM TO CAMP…so while he may develop it is along way off and not a slam dunk
Big Ray
October 21st, 2009
9:11 pm
O’brien ,
I think there is some small advantage to this 13-man roster thing. If most teams go with that number of players, then more guys are getting cut. It may not be much, but down the road if you actually need to pick up a guy, it seems to me that you’re picking from a slightly better crop than normal. Instead of getting some other team’s sixteenth guy (the last one to get cut), you’re getting a guy who almost made it to 13th on the roster.
Like I said, it ain’t a huge jump, but in some cases, it’s a difference. Kinda like if you look at who we used to invite to camp. A few years ago, it was Cedric Bozeman who got left on the scrap heap. Now it’s Juan Dixon. I know which guy I’d rather have out of the two.
Big Ray
October 21st, 2009
9:15 pm
Heh. ESPN. Whateva…
How is Andre Miller a better fit here than Bibby? Maybe it looked good on paper. To put it into perspective, look what they have to say about him on NBA.com. Dude doesn’t even know if he’s going to be starting in Portland. What does that tell you? Also, I guarantee Woody wouldn’t take Miller over Bibby. Guarantee it. Not after he said “Bibby should retire here.”
Zach
October 21st, 2009
9:42 pm
Sekou,
I most definitely agree with your point about the teams in the middle as being the hardest to pick. Clearly I can see the Cav, Magic, and Celts as top teams. I guess I’m just looking for something insightful from these guys. I look at some of their comments and I feel like (maybe because we don’t get a lot of national news coverage) that these guys don’t watch our games. That turns into some halfhearted analysis, at least in my opinion. Like you said when we won 13 game it was easy to not care what the Hawks did, kinda like covering Royal’s game in baseball, but when we have been to playoffs two years in a row, taking the Celtics to 7 in one year and going to the second round next year I just feel like we should be getting more looks, more insight, and less reaction to things that happened 4,5 or 10 years ago.
I guess my point is I’m tired, along with you and other Hawks observers, of seeing analysis not watch our game, and just say “oh those Hawks were terrible 4 years ago, they can’t have improved that much, there is no way they challenge the gods of the east.
Maybe I’m biased, being born and raised in Atlanta, but living in Miami now the only place I find anything about the Hawks is your blog and other local news and that’s sad to me. The Hawks are a quality team, that has improved in the offseason, and I can’t stand the cursory analysis.
Thanks Sekou for all you do. I love reading your articles, and its great to talk to you on the blog.
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
9:45 pm
The other thing is that there was no need to sign Siler simply because our 4th, 5th, and 6th string big men (Joe S, RandMo, Collins) are free agents next summer. Some people talk as if it will be incredibly difficult for the Hawks to sign guys like that next summer, but the reality is that there are ALWAYS serviceable-but-not-great big men available in August and September. So it’s not like those guys leaving will create this impossible-to-fill gap.
If anything, having a year during which we see if Siler can make some noise in the minor leagues will give us perspective. Because honestly, he’s nowhere close to being ready right now, and I have a feeling that if we did keep him, people would be talking about Siler next October the same way we’re talking about RandMo now…
Zach
October 21st, 2009
9:45 pm
Big Ray,
I also enjoy your bias against ESPN’s coverage of the Hawks, I know we’re not espnboston.com or espndallas.com or espnnewyork.com or espnwhatever.com but come on…give the Hawks some respect.
What can I say
October 21st, 2009
9:48 pm
reedeak, Im with you. Neither Collins are Zaza are so much that Id cut Siler and pay both of them. I would have cut Zaza and keep Collins and Siler. There would not be much difference in what takes place on the floor or the Hawks standing, yet id save tons of money and prepare for the future.
dominique0107
October 21st, 2009
10:03 pm
Guess Hawks management has made a reasonable cuts, except retaining Rand Mo..Siler or Sims show a lot of potentials than he has.
Deanna
October 21st, 2009
10:13 pm
Good luck Mario! I, Ryne, Coach Dennis and our whole family wish you the best. They’ve told me what kind of person you are; so I know you’ll land on your feet and excel wherever you go from here and at whatever you do!
Tbird
October 21st, 2009
10:31 pm
Cut Zaza and keep Collins and Siler….? Amazing. God are we lucky you don’t make decisions for the Hawks…One guy has NEVER approached Zaza’s numbers in 8 years in the league and the other guy is a three-four year project to get to BACK-UP NBA status. Wow
Big Ray
October 21st, 2009
10:56 pm
Zach ,
ESPN is like…media darling central, or something. I’m not going to act like those guys never know what they’re doing or talking about, but they definitely go with the “popular flow.” It’s all good though. You KNOW they’re going to come this way when things start heating up in Hawksville.
niremetal
October 21st, 2009
10:58 pm
Ray,
I dunno about that. They treated the Pistons like a fluke even after they annihilated the Lakers in the ‘04 Finals…
blue hawk
October 21st, 2009
11:06 pm
they should have kept Siler. anybody see how hibbert had developed?
chuckw/deadjournalist
October 21st, 2009
11:09 pm
just getting the news on the cuts … busy day. really, really sad to see ‘rio go.
i hope he finds his way back in the league. if he does, and if he plays in atlanta, i hope the standing ovation he gets when he checks in is long and loud.
rms
October 21st, 2009
11:28 pm
Big ray how do you highlight your screen blue like that? the same way sekou text is shaded in blue so is yours. I want mine blue too!
I MUS WRITE
October 21st, 2009
11:41 pm
Sekou- “Simple question simple answer” Its not a simple question if you dont know the answer. Columnist,Blog Author,Beat Writer,Secret spy its all the same to me. Now i know
“Muney” Who the hell is muney? LOL Come on man take the bandana off thats not you. Muney-Lol
I MUS WRITE
October 21st, 2009
11:53 pm
What can i say -Are you an Agusta State Homer? ZAZA and Collins are both proven veterans. Siler isnt better than either at this point.
Ditto TBird……
Ken Strickland
October 22nd, 2009
12:02 am
SAUTEE-to answer your question, NO. However, he’s a better starting PG option if the Hawks are truely interested in becoming a title contender. While Teague isn’t as good as those players at this point, he’s a much better starting PG option than Bibby. What do you see Bibby doing to get better or make this team better? He’s certainly not going to get quicker, faster, more athletic, acquire better lateral movement, penetrating ability or play better DEF.
Like you said, let’s agree to disagree and give it a rest. After all, we’re both avid Hawk fans and want the best for the team no matter who starts. Our debate has already stirred up a familiar negative minded stench that frequents these blogs and posts under various names.
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
12:09 am
You gotta love Sekou,
Another great post. A little humility with the cold hard facts mixed with history. Nire you don’t have to go to Pistons to look for disrespect. Just look at what the experts said about the Hawks last year. The next few days will give us a preview of what the Hawks are capable of. On the road against tough teams. Crawford – my man- give us another 9 assists and lead the way.
Ken Strickland
October 22nd, 2009
12:31 am
ZACH-the major reason the Hawks don’t get the media attention that other teams get is because we don’t have a bonified superstar like Cleveland, Boston, Miami or Orlando and MWoodson isn’t considered a high profile HC. Therefore, they don’t feel the need to give us any attention because they don’t feel we have anyone worthy of commanding any.
If the Hawks play up to their potential and challenge for the 2nd or 3rd seed, and Woodson got the credit he’d deserve for getting us there, we’d get the same type of attention for our regular season accomplishments that we got for our exciting playoff performance against Boston yr before last.
Niremetal-excellent points. Those who keep talking about cutting Zaza, RMorris or Collins and signing Siler or Sims to save money don’t know very much. Zaza, Collins and RMorris have guaranteed contracts, so if we cut either of them and signed Siler, Sims or anyone else, we’d have to pay them and still have to honor those guaranteed contracts. HOW IS THAT SAVING MONEY?
With Joe Smith, and now OHunter, I don’t see Horford playing nearly as much PF as he did last yr. This is going to be a very interesting season for the Hawks and their fans. I can’t wait to see the impact Joe Smith, JTeague and JCrawford will have on the team and how they’ll be utilized. When you add Zaza and Evans, I don’t see how Woodson can avoid using a 10 man rotation.
Mike is back
October 22nd, 2009
12:48 am
Thanks for the update Sekou. I pick Othella and Siler to be the guys to make the roster… Well you can’t have it all…the Hawks made a wise choice. I’m sudden by the news of Siler. However, I believe Siler put his name on the radar of a few GMs…Someone will give him a shot. I wish him well…good luck to you too Rio…thanks for putting every once of energy into every second you played…The best of luck to the both of you.
Well the roster is set…I think Sund did a fabulous job this off-season…this team should be fun to watch…I’m excited.
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KSEE
October 22nd, 2009
1:07 am
NOOO!!!! i wanted to see Mario in a hawks jersey another year! he worked hard for us…thanks for everything dude!
Loved seeing a yellow jacket on the hometown hawks!
good luck wit future endeavors Mario!!!
darrell starks
October 22nd, 2009
1:55 am
Why cut mario i dont like this move specialy with the energy we lack sometime and the spark he bring 2 the team 2 play hard no matter what the score is.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 22nd, 2009
1:58 am
TRUST ME AND NBA TEAM WILL GRAB MARIO IN A HEART BEAT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Pinball34
October 22nd, 2009
2:21 am
Good luck Mario. We’ll miss you…
Hoops
October 22nd, 2009
8:10 am
I wonder why the Hawks waited until after yesterday’s practice to let Siler go when they let West and Simms go before the workout? They must have been considering keeping him. Any thoughts by anyone?
Keeping it real
October 22nd, 2009
8:14 am
I understand the logic behind cutting Zaza and keeping crawford and siler. Its a investment in the future and freeing up salary space. What not to see? I agree. you wont lose anything in preformance, you may even up the level a notch. Either way you go the Hawks still finish fourth. I see your thinking “what can I say”, it not hard to follow.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
9:02 am
DING
Was a fan
October 22nd, 2009
9:17 am
Enter your comments here
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
9:20 am
wait am I crazy or are some people suggesting that we cut ZaZa and Collins and keep Siler and Sims?
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
9:30 am
Daniel,
You are not crazy….
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
9:38 am
Melvin- What is going on here? I was just about to write a post about how I thought this blog was really maturing witht the team. Zaza is probably the best back up center in the league. Yes, I said it. Who wants to argue with that?
Anyone that says Gortat is immediately disqualified.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
9:55 am
Nire- I really like your point about Siler and Randolph. Everyone who is clamoring for Siler to get a contract right now will either A) be complaining that the Hawks can’t pick someone up later in the season to help (like a Stackhouse) or B) Complaining about a roster spot going to a bench gnome like Morris.
Doug
October 22nd, 2009
9:57 am
“Keepin it Real” and “What can i say”: Logic behind cutting Zaza and Collins and keeping Siler?? Let’s begin with the fact you are clueless…their contracts are GUARANTEED…you understand that means they get paid…regardless…so your premise of freeing up salary cap space is utterly void of substance…second..you keep a guy who was not drafted…cannot guard…and is a mediocre reboounder at the division II level over two proven NBA post players??? Unreal
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
9:59 am
But wait…Marcin Gortat is the backup to Brad Miller. So he MUST be good.
In all seriousness, I’d go with whoever comes off the bench between Camby and Kaman in LA, but other than them, yeah – Zaza, Przybilla, and Brad Miller are probably the best backup centers in the league. I’d probably give the edge to Zaza because while Przybilla is bigger and is a bit better as a rebounder and marginally better on D (and those are the qualities you look for most in a backup C), Zaza has much more finesse and a much sounder offensive game. Similarly, Zaza is significantly better on D and the boards than the aging Miller, even though Miller has a better offensive game.
I assume Rasheed will be coming off the bench in Boston and playing most of his time at C. You can add him to the conversation too assuming that KG gets him to start playing D again and stop shooting 3s. He was seriously a net negative by the end of last year for the Pistons as he fell more and more in love with his perimeter shot, which is where he was taking well over half his shots last year (5 treys a game for a big man? Seriously?).
Zaza is certainly in the top 5 backup centers in the league, and he probably would start on about 1/4 of the teams in the league. He’s even better as a backup center, whose job generally is to be a stalwart on D and the boards. The idea that a D-Leaguer or a DII project would be better than him is absurd.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
10:02 am
HA – clearly I meant Dwight Howard, not Brad Miller, in that first sentence. Was thinking too far ahead there…
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
10:18 am
If Camby backs up Kaman then I will give you Camby. But, I would not go Kaman over Za, because I want a guy who actually plays an entire season and not 1/3 to 1/2 season.
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
10:28 am
Nire,
You must not have utilize the link to the Celtics/Cavs game I sent last night. Sheed stay away from the paint as if it was contagious with the swine flu.
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
10:34 am
I’m not sure if I would take Camby over ZaZa. Although he block alot of shots and rebounds, his offensive game is horrible. And I think he’s overrated as a defender. Notice how the Nuggets defensive stats are better now with Nene in the lineup. Many have complained about Josh being a poor on ball defender, I think Camby falls in that category as well.
ILL-logical
October 22nd, 2009
10:40 am
Another read on the curent roster ,aside from the obvious economic issues,is that there is a much more serious approach by staff and management to winning this year. There is no room on the roster for feel good stories or long term projects. This year,everyone wearing a jock has got to be able to do the work.
Mike is back
October 22nd, 2009
10:42 am
Nire, “CMON MAN” the guy is gone…YOU could have passed on that…everybody wonna kick on ya when your down….do one them hoooooooooshaaaaaaa thing or sumin. You didn’t win,” HE WILL BE BACK!!!!!!!” lol
Mike is back
October 22nd, 2009
10:45 am
Melvin, your plug on Sheed…very funny.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
10:49 am
Ill- word!
GeeMack
October 22nd, 2009
10:55 am
Ken & Zach
There is no need for the media to recognize mediocrity. Although the Hawks have done a good job of stock piling mid level talent the steps the power house teams (Cavs, Lakers, Spurs,Magic, & Celtic) have made are far far better.
If you look at the Hawks team now…there is nothing we do that’s great. We can scoring but not a great scoring team. We play good defense, but we are not a great defensive team, even though our coach preaches defense. We have seen the Hawks be great on defense in stretches but not consistenly.
Also I think as Hawks fan we make excuses for mediocrity. I have heard so many times about how tired, and injured the team was after being sweep by Clevland in the 2nd rd. Not to say those areas werent a factor, but when I see a team like the Rockets lose their leading their top scorer, and still push the lakers to a game 7. That’s the grit it takes to win.
Ken
This is where you and I disagree with the potential for this team. I think the top 2 teams in a conference should be able to compete for a champioship. I don’t think the Hawks made the move to get to that level. It has nothing to do with coaching. Give Woody a KG and a Ray Allen to go with JJ and he will produce the same results as Doc.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
10:56 am
New NBA commercial, with JJ leading off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU4B5LfphG4
Melvin,
Hahaha, good one. Nah, I didn’t catch the link to the Cavs-Celts game. Good news for us if Sheed is still taking that tack. Maybe he and KG will come to blows before the year is out…
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
11:12 am
Man, it hurts to see ‘Rio go. I’ve been following this kid for a while now. My friend’s cousin dates ‘Rio. I hope he gets a nice contract across the sea. He deserves it.
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
11:26 am
KG nor Ray played against a healthy Cavs team last night and the Cavs still got spank them. I know it preseason, but the starter/rotational subs played the majority of the 1st three qtrs and the Cavs got an early season reality check. I still think Boston is the team to beat in the East if KG is healthy….
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
GeeMack- You know you are my man, but… 47 wins and a second round playoff appearance is not mediocrity. That is at least upper third of the league. This team does play very well at home. They have young talent that is continuing to grow into their roles, which other teams don’t have. They have a nice mix of vets now, so this team can come in waves at you. C’mon now… people only started calling Orlando an “elite” team late in the season. Denver is “elite”? BTW- What has this Cav team won? They look “elite” on paper and they have LeBron who makes great commercials and is a regular season stat stuffer, but what do they do? Oh, they got Shaq, yeah that is exciting… if this were 2001.
Don’t believe all the hype coming out of Bristol. If it ain’t the C’s, Lakers or Cavs they don’t get their Nike kick backs.
BBgenie
October 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
Hey people, M.Jordan got cut once so what’s the Big Deal???????? HDI!
Hurt Don’t It!!!!!!! Hawks in 7!!!!!
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
11:57 am
I can’t fathom the Celtics slipping below 50 wins – and I can’t say that about any other team in the league. Even if 3-4 guys get hurt, Doc will find a way to pull it all together.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
11:58 am
So, where are all the regulars? I see Melvin, Ray, KevinA, Sautee, and Niremetal, but that’s about it.
Daniel, where you here last year much?
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
12:01 pm
I’m sorry, were* you here much, last year.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
12:14 pm
yeah Reggie, I was, but during the season I get a lot busier at the office so I don’t get to blog as much.
Ken Strickland
October 22nd, 2009
12:20 pm
NIREMETAL-I’m not so certain that RWallace will be a quality backup. He’s been a lazy, unmotivated(unless he’s responding to an obvious foul call) underachiever as a starter. I’m not so sure he has what it takes to be consistently effective coming off the bench. It does take a certain energy and mindset, and he spent more time arguing with the REF’s than playing when he came off Portland’s bench, which is one reason they got rid of him.
Melvin-I’d take Camby over Zaza only because his shotblocking ability would help compensate for Bibby’s serious DEF liabilities and make them less damaging to the team. Camby’s presence would also allow us to play more straight up DEF, instead of constantly switching and involved in mismatches, which places often places them out of good rebounding position. That’s the main reason Horford’s and Smoove’s rebounding, especially OFF rebounding, fell last season despite Smoove’s mins remaining essentially the same as the yr before and Horford’s mins increasing. The switching DEF, which was employed to compensate for Bibby’s inability to fight over picks and overall poor DEF ability, caused Smoove’s shotblocking to be greatly reduced as well, from 2.8BPG to 1.61BPG in basically the same MPG.
Having a dynamic shotblocker like Camby at C would make Bibby’s DEF liabilities less disruptive to our other frontline players, and the team overall. I’m not advocating we replace Horford with Camby though. Horford finished 7th in rebounding among all centers, and that’s despite having a lower rebounding total than the yr before. He also finished 19th in blocks, 4th in assists and 8th in steals among all centers. NOW THAT’S DOWN RIGHT OUTSTANDING FOR SOMEONE ALLEGEDLY PLAYING OUT OF POSITION AND MASQUERADING AS A CENTER, AND WHO’S NATURAL POSITION IS SUPPOSED TO BE PF.
I want everyone to pay close attention to the overall DEF improvement of our frontline when Teague or Crawford are playing PG. Their ability to fight over picks and recover when out of position will provide more protection for our frontline players by making it much more difficult for opposing PG’s to penetrate. Also, watch for improved scoring and easier scoring opportunities when they’re playing PG. Their ability to penetrate and collapse the DEF will create open and easier scoring opportunities for others, improve our halfcourt OFF, lessen the willingness of teams to double JJ, and create more FT opportunities.
Contrary to what some chose to believe, I think these are extremely important issues when it comes to improving the Hawks and their ability to compete for a higher seed.
GeeMack
October 22nd, 2009
12:22 pm
Daniel,
You know I have the up most respect for the your bball knowlegde, but 47 wins means your a mediocre team. Remember we play in a conference where 3 of the 8 playoff teams were 500 or below last season.
The current situation with the Hawks is so much better than the last 5 year. So as a fan I am glad we are at the level of respectability. However I think as a franchise we have accepted being the 4th best team in the East as an honor. The ceiling for this team is 48 to 52 wins.
Sekou Smith
October 22nd, 2009
12:30 pm
If you’re an 80s cat like me, you are going to choke on this EXPLOSIVE STORY from my man Ian Thomsen at Sports Illustrated. Read this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/10/22/isiah.magic/index.html?eref=sihp) at your own peril. WOW!
rms
October 22nd, 2009
12:40 pm
What kind of crap was that? Ian Thomsen is a putz!!
GeeMack
October 22nd, 2009
12:42 pm
Ken
Those shot blocking & rebounding stats would be impressive if Al was the focal point of our offense. Even with defense we run his & Josh rebounding should be higher.
After seeing JT-0 play on Monday I am excited about what he will do this season, but at this point Mike Bibby is a better point guard period.
The Hawks don’t have the luxury of starting JT-0 without if costing the team 4 to 5 wins over the course the season.
Clyde
October 22nd, 2009
12:45 pm
ROLL TIDE!!!!!!
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
12:46 pm
Ken,
I’m seriously getting tired of reading and responding to your posts when you talk about Bibby, because you say the same things over and over again. Then when people make responses, you seize on one or two details, take them out of context, and argue against them instead of the points that are broader, more important, and more damaging to your argument. You did it with Sautee and with me in the last blog, and it got old.
A Thinking Fan
October 22nd, 2009
12:50 pm
BASG has just started acting like an organization that wants to really win now. The only ones who profited from the last five/six years are the Legal Teams for Belkins & BASG!
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
12:52 pm
Niremetal: Don’t worry about Ken. He’s got some good points sometimes, but he will always be a Bibby hater. Some guys just have a grudge on a player no matter what; Sam and Rod!
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
12:53 pm
And PS, weren’t you the one who said TWICE that you were going to drop this?
Hoops
October 22nd, 2009
12:59 pm
Sekou,
That’s one sad story! What a shame that such great players are caught up in all those rumours.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm
Sekou,
I actually love Magic and hate Zeke, but damn… based on what little info there is, it sounds like Zeke gets the better of this clash. Assuming they were such good friends, why would Magic believe that Isiah would say stuff about him behind his back? Did he even talk to Zeke before he bought into the rumors?
I’m definitely buying that book, though.
GeeMack
October 22nd, 2009
1:05 pm
Sekou
WOW! WOW! WOW! That book will be a best seller…off that article alone. WOW.
Sekou do you believe any of it?
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
1:06 pm
Whoa Sekou, crazy story there. I never cared for Isiah, but I think he is getting harshly treated here. His willingness to embrace Magic at that time had a profound effect on how this country came to terms with the AIDS virus and people living with it.
That being said the fact that both of them are still bantering back and forth about their sexuality only raises more questions for me. To be honest I always thought that both of them had a little sugar in their tank, and I for one don’t care about that one bit.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
1:09 pm
Gee- Dang man, you may be right but that is so depressing. C’mon the season is almost here, it is time to ride or die.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
1:11 pm
Ken- 1) Camby is an off the ball shot blocker much like Josh. So, his defense does not help in the way that you describe it.
2) That may be the first time in history that someone seriously wrote that Crawford would be a significant improvement on defense. You should forward your post to the Oakland and NY blog sites. It would be funny to see the responses.
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
1:13 pm
Reggie- I am a RandMo hater, and I admit it.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
1:18 pm
To give a cynic’s view on this, Magic is a marketing genius and Larry is sharp as a tack in business matters as well. Positioning themselves as best friends is great for their careers as retired players. The whole bitter-rivals-now-best-friends storyline is both a feel-good story, raises the profile of both players, and draws attention to how intensely competitive the NBA was in the 1980’s. That, in turn, raises their profiles relative to Jordan’s, who never had a rival player or team to measure himself against (the eternal and unanswerable question – how many Finals do Jordan’s Bulls win if they had to play against the Celtics and Lakers at their peak?).
So from a marketing standpoint, Magic shifting his loyalty from Isiah to Larry is good. From a personal standpoint, though, this started well before Magic retired. As that SI article notes, Magic and Isiah started falling out back in ‘88, and Magic and Larry were already close friends by the time Bird retired (remember, Magic was the keynote guy at his retirement ceremony). So I don’t think this is ALL about selling books, not by any stretch.
MannyT
October 22nd, 2009
1:33 pm
I wish good long term fortunes to the guys that got cut yesterday. The downside of having a team full of good guys is the sadness when you have to fire them. I even feel for Woody. His job is to let them go, but it’s more about economics than staffing for at least one of them as teams go with the smaller rosters.
I read that Magic/Bird book article. I am glad that Thomas got a chance to have his say. While he may not have been a good personnel guy, he seems to be on the wrong side of publicity wars these days. Seems like someone would take a poke at him for bleeding if someone else attcked him.
Nire, it’s always about selling books. Otherwise this beef would have been left out of the book. Even if you don’t want to clear the air, you can omit things from a book. I doubt Magic loses his book deal if he says that he won’t write about Thomas.
BWAF
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
1:52 pm
Daniel: But, would you continue to hate if he (magically) started playing well for the Hawks and helped the team out? That’s where the problem sets in for me.
uberVU - social comments
October 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by ajchawks: Mario West, Courtney Sims and Big Glacier have all left the building.http://bit.ly/H25Sn…
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
2:09 pm
Reggie- If he magically starts playing well I will wear assesless chaps to the game.
Just not a game that Magic or Isiah may be at.
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
2:22 pm
Ken,
I’m not following your logic. How would Camby change our defensive strategy? Isn’t he the same type of shot blocker as Josh?
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
2:25 pm
Daniel,
Sugar in the gas tank? lol To funny.
Melvin
October 22nd, 2009
2:28 pm
Daniel,
Now that’s a Low Blow….lol
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
2:29 pm
Melvin great minds think alike.
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm
Which is worse, the fact that people want to write books like this, or that people are so addicted to this kind of drama?
barry
October 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm
Hey Y’all:
The HAwks need “BIG MEN” to take on the centers in this leaugue. I hope letting SILERS go was legit. He is a “BIG BODY”. You mean his game was that bad, for a big man, to make the team?? Man, I hope Woody is right on this one. WE NEED A “BIG CENTER” FOR SHACK, GARNETT, AND “SUPERMAN” IN ORLANDO. I hope Wooody has a game plan for this season ,and the playoffs, in that area.
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a SECRET from a HAWK FAN. TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
……………………….”SHOCK THE WORLD!!!”…………………
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm
Ken, Don’t be fooled by Marcus Camby He’s trash….Also Bibby’s shotcomings will ALWAYS be a concern. It defenetly worries the hell out of me. But you can’t argue with results; or the fact that he’s the best PG we’ve had in years. As long as his defensive effort is evident, I have no qualms with him. He more than makes up for it with his great A/TO ratio and his 98 steals last season(his highest mark since the 04-05 season)…..but if PDX wants to deal Bayless i’m game
Lost a lot of respect for Ervin after reading that article. Going behind Isiahs back like that. That’s not how real men handle their business. Gossiping and not being up front about any concerns that you may have with a person or something they may or may not have said; That’s a feminine trait(a little schoolgirlish to be honest).
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
3:44 pm
but if PDX wants to deal Bayless i’m game
You’re just sayin’ that because you want Patty Mills to have a prayer of seeing the floor this year
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
3:48 pm
Pellow Bloggers
, I have not taken out the trash as far as RandMo is concerned yet. Patience my friends. This season will seal his fate. He’s dropped weight and is finally hustling and acting like he’s got some damn sense(gettin’ G.Green’s 800K and eating mickey D’s on the way to the games has apprently stopped) he’s on a diet and is eating healthy now. On not ready to put him on the top of the scrap heap just yet…
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
3:50 pm
*Fellow
Nire, Maybe……maybe not. Anyhoo…*whistles and walks away*
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
3:53 pm
Ariose- I officialy put him (Randoph) on the heap. He is not a has been. He is a never was. Total waste of space, even at 800K. He looks fitter for sure, I always love it when professional athletes whose only JOB is to be in shape, say that they are getting in shape as a new concept- what a loser. He had a couple of decent boards against the Wiz, but then had some horrible brick hand plays as well. He is not even worth 6 fouls. Honestly, the guy is an embarrasment to the uniform.
theZaZaguy
October 22nd, 2009
4:01 pm
I agree Daniel. He only started really trying when he realized this was his last chance. I just see indifference in his eyes. All he has been good for is to get 6 fouls against Shaq or Dwight. We should cash him out and bring in Siler. At least Siler could prevent a Shaq or Dwight from backing him up and getting an “and 1″.
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
4:04 pm
LOL@ daniel!!!! Ok I’ll take you word for it, but I wanna see him in action first this season hehehe…
Mike Bibby Flip Diary #4
http://www.nba.com/video/flip_video_diaries/2009/10/19/20091019_bibby_flipcam4.nba/index.html
Daniel
October 22nd, 2009
4:06 pm
ZaZaguy- I am with you, of course it is easy for you and me to say the ASG should just eat 800,000K, ya know.
Honestly though if we are in a situation where we need anything from Morris or Siler if he were to take his spot, we would be in a WORLD of hurt. I am more hurt about Mario. Yes, he is limited, but the guy actually made some tangible contributions last year. If nothing else, his head is in the game. I watch Morris from the stands right behind the bench and he looks detached and staring off into space. Dude sucks, knows it, and doesn’t care about it.
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
4:22 pm
Bad Move Reggie, Bad Move…
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/22/crimesider/entry5410009.shtml
He should’ve handled his business and gave Von Fuddyduddy what was coming to him though….
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
4:26 pm
Oh Snap!!!
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/it_an_heir_bawl_2mL0eLESzJZYCGQOsTWlZM
REALLY bad move Reggie lol. Leave them aristocratic hoodrat bimbos alone. Can you say atttention Wh@re….Like Marc Jackson would say “Reggie! You’re better than that!”
theZaZaguy
October 22nd, 2009
4:28 pm
I think someone like Morris and Siler play a small yet valuable role. That is when we play a physical scoring center and Al,ZaZa,Jason, and Joe get in foul trouble. Of course this situation only happens about once maybe twice a year. So paying an additional 450,000 for the league minimum is probably not a good ROI. Siler at least seemed to be trying harder though… Too bad Sonny Smith isn’t coaching the hawks. He always had an affinity for wide bodies. I sit behind the basket on the visitor side, so I only see the look in his eyes when he comes to line up for a free throw…talk about uninterested. He was even uninterested during autograph signings. Marvin and Al were much more into it at the table.
Sekou Smith
October 22nd, 2009
5:22 pm
I need to read the book before I come to any real conclusions, GeeMack. As far as who to believe, I know Isiah well. He’s been accused of a lot of things. One thing he’s never been called is a liar. He was always extremely forthcoming with me when I covered his Pacers teams. He was probably too honest at times. It’s just sad for me because I grew up 45 miles from Magic when he was in high school. I was a Showtime Lakers fan in Bad Boy country. So it pains me to see this story playing out this way all these years later.
The book is a must-read for hoops heads from the 80s. I know I’m reading the thing cover to cover. They’re probably gonna make a mint on this book. I just hope the folks profiting understand that it’s never going to be worth the nearly lifetime of friendships that are being (and will continue to be) ruined during the process.
One last thing on Mario West, the one place where he will be missed most is on those lazy practice days when no one else really feels like doing anything and he’s running around like a maniac. It’s an infectious thing. Obviously, it doesn’t make or break the season that West isn’t around. But he did bring something to the table.
bigdave
October 22nd, 2009
5:31 pm
aight… so i dont get it… Isiah (the player) was before my time but all i ever knew of him was being one greatest PG’s ever. what was he like the “TO” of his time? why didnt any of his fellow superstars not want him on the Dream Team’s? what was the rep of Isiah?
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
October 22nd, 2009
5:32 pm
Ariose: How’s it going man? What you looking for this season from our Birds?
MannyT
October 22nd, 2009
6:02 pm
Ariose,
The CBS article mentioned that the woman may have been flirting wit multiple people. If she flirts with a non rich, non celebrity, it is non news.
Maybe it should be non news anyhow…there is a price for celebrity.
…and maybe you have a shot at her
BWAF
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
6:20 pm
Reggie, 57-25 thats my nuber and i’m stickin’ with it. J-Craw is going to have tons of fun with all of the attention JJ gets
And I can’t WAIT for Teague to dunk on Rondo…..it’s going to happen eventually…
Manny, YOU’RE BETTER THAN THAT!!! Ha!!!
Seriously though, where’s big sister when ya need her? Sherryl Miller woulda had that guy running for his life lol. Step your game up reggie!!!
Ariose
October 22nd, 2009
6:24 pm
Nuggets and Lakers on TNT tonight 11:00pm ET
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
6:50 pm
10:00 pm ET
jerrywest
October 22nd, 2009
7:19 pm
is the miami game on radio?
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
7:31 pm
I can’t find it anywhere
jerrywest
October 22nd, 2009
7:40 pm
Teague had 3 turnovers in 4 minutes. 1 offensive foul and 2 bad passes.
truly1
October 22nd, 2009
7:41 pm
me neither it started on 790 then it got cut of for troy aikman who wants to hear that
jerrywest
October 22nd, 2009
7:45 pm
Josh 0-4 from foul line. 3 fouls alrady. 1 technical.
Teague 3 turnovers in first 4 minutes.
Crawford shooting jumpshots.
Marvin playing center at the end of q1.
dispite that hawks are up 23-14.
jerrywest
October 22nd, 2009
7:47 pm
Teague had his 4th turnover in 7 minutes. another offensive foul. whats happening?
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
7:48 pm
make that 4 turnovers
truly1
October 22nd, 2009
7:48 pm
jw you are watching this on courtside live arent you any sound
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
7:50 pm
Jerry – did you find a link or watching the box score
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 22nd, 2009
8:02 pm
Guys the game is back on 790 the zone now! Don’t forget the Hawks are on the road. They be trippin on the road. They don’t have to win pretty, just win. Preseason or not don’t want the team to lose to the Heat.
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
8:04 pm
Mz. Hawkdafied,
ty, tks, tkx.
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
8:13 pm
Al tearing it up -
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 22nd, 2009
8:15 pm
I know we didn’t miss a Jamal Crawford dunk. They gotta put that on the highlights vid.
jerrywest
October 22nd, 2009
8:22 pm
Joe & Joe played really well. Al was great.
Crawford, one of the worst rebounder in NBA is crushing the board. He already had a steal and a block! Wow!
Teague is sloppy today. Josh’s foul shot will be a problem all season.
Chalmers bone headed foul with 1 second left. Marvin got the defensive rebound and was smart enough to shoot it. 3 foul shots.
Woody closed the first half with Joe+Crawford+Marvin+JoeSmith+Al. That’s my offensive closing lineup as well. Very happy about that. Joe Smith is so intelligent. He will help us a lot.
Sautee
October 22nd, 2009
8:27 pm
Ken,
Not a peep from me.
vava74
October 22nd, 2009
8:37 pm
Ariose,
I don’t have the patience to back check, but I think that you were not so optimistic just a little while ago.
I think I was the first to say that 57 wins was my goal/prediction and I was considered by most as “childishly optimistic”.
My only concern are the injuries. If we get by the year without any significant injuries (no more than a cumulative 10/12 games without a starter) we will certainly break the 50 win mark.
vava74
October 22nd, 2009
8:41 pm
Josh is 1-10 or 1-11 right now from the FT line.
Someone call a doctor!!
He is either a sleep walker or has some sort of phobia against uncontested shots…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm
Where are y’all watching these preseason games?
Najeh Davenpoop
October 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm
1/10 from the line, holy sh*t… he really should try shooting underhanded.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 22nd, 2009
8:59 pm
Other than J-Smoove’s free throw insanity and the turnovers from the second unit, things seem to be going pretty smoothly for the Hawks in this game. I just wish I could watch it somewhere. I have the UFL, of all things, on TV right now because there is literally nothing else on.
Sautee
October 22nd, 2009
8:59 pm
Time for a sports psychologist
kwooden1
October 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
Looks like I’m late to the game, but it looks like the HAWKS are making quality personnel moves opposed to trying to reach for something. I didn’t think the HAWKS would keep another project big man, since Morris is under contract. Clearly Othello was the most improved player on the bubble in camp. Mario is a great locker room guy but just didn’t improve his game enough. I thought the HAWKS might make some space for Mario, but it looks like their just keeping space on the roster for during the season.
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
9:26 pm
Can’t see the game, so I can’t see Josh’s “form.” Whatever it is, somebody better fix it quick. Of all the things for him to be limited by… Not being able to hit free throws negates any smarter moves/better shot selection that he is already showing.
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
Say what you want about Horford’s offense, but I’ll take 12 and 10 on 6 of 9 shooting in 27 minutes any night, all else being equal.
And how about JJ? 50% shooting, 6 boards and 8 dimes? Yessss!!
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
9:31 pm
Game appears to not even be as close as the score suggests. Heat tried to mount a late rally in garbage time.
Sautee
October 22nd, 2009
9:35 pm
This is different. Our bench gave us this:
40 pts / 12 reb / 7 ast / 5 steals and 3 blocked shots.
All without Zaza. Not bad.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
9:36 pm
But 34:30 on the floor for JJ, before the preseason is even out.
And so it begins.
Sautee
October 22nd, 2009
9:37 pm
Yeah Ray just think, if Josh shoots even 60% from the line it’s an easy 10 point win. That’s one reason they hung around.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
9:43 pm
Deluded WIZARDS fans just don’t want to hear my takes on how good the HAWKS are. “Well, when we get all our people back healthy, we’ll show them.” Delusional, they just don’t get it. Show them what’s up on the 30th at PHILLIPS.
That said, the “ZARDS are better than last year. Not HAWKS quality, but not pathetic. MILLER, FOYE, and OBERTO are an upgrade.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
9:46 pm
BIG RAY:
Not seing much of doc lately. Is he o.k. or just tiring of the blog thing?
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
9:48 pm
richbrave,
He made some posts on the last thread and over on the Fan Nest blog.
And seriously – don’t get your hopes up about the Wiz. I admit to being probably the most pessimistic person in the country when it comes to their prospects, but my prediction is that they’ll go 35-47.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
9:49 pm
On the plus side – if you subtract Josh’s line, the Hawks were 15-18 from the line. That’s 83.3% – pretty durn good if ya ask me.
Hoops
October 22nd, 2009
9:54 pm
nire,
It must be kinda strange to live in the DC area and be a Hawks fan. Especially if the only time you get to see them live is when they play the Wizzards in DC.
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
9:58 pm
Nire ,
34 minutes is a good bit less than 40. Woody said he’d play the starters lightly for the first 4-5 games (and he did). He then said he’d play them more minutes in the last two games (he has). So really, this is no surprise.
Plus, it showed that we could win with him playing 34 minutes. Imagine if he only has to average 34 or 35 minutes per game? I think we’d be happy with that, yes?
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
9:59 pm
Somebody call John Smoltz’s psychologist for Josh Smith. I hope that 1-10 was just an aberration, but I have a bad feeling about this…
Big Ray
October 22nd, 2009
10:05 pm
Nire ,
Saw your comment on the other blog. Point well taken, guess we’ll see what happens, eh?
bigdave
October 22nd, 2009
10:05 pm
Jamal getting 31 mins… dont mind that if Bibby can only manage 1 assist.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
10:26 pm
Hoops,
I moved up to Philly over the summer, so I won’t get Wiz games on the tube anymore. But it was good going to the Hawks-Wiz games last year…mainly because the Hawks won both times
. Hopefully I’ll have the same luck here – I’ve already got tix to the game on Nov 27th.
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
10:27 pm
I am
KevinA
October 22nd, 2009
10:29 pm
I am more concerned about the turnovers. It is amazing how much better we play at home. We won’t be able to get away with this kind of game against Orlando.
doc
October 22nd, 2009
10:43 pm
richie, i am here bud, still got the warm ups on waiting for the season. canniblogging has never been my thing nor style unless it is to do a retort. the scroll thing woks if someone continues to show their arse real quick. life is too short at least from my present viewpoint.
i also had a computer lap top key board problem. no e, so i was having to cut and paste every friggng one. do you know there are few words without e’s? it blew my mind, as i am a terrible typist anyway. hence the “occasional” skipped comma and the e.e. cummings look. got my season tickets, my optimistic look on my face and all set with “expectations”.
wwwd … will woody deliver?
doc
October 22nd, 2009
10:44 pm
wwwd? … what will woody deliver?
got away from me.
DW
October 22nd, 2009
10:52 pm
All right homers, here’s something to get you riled up (it teed me off a little): http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/BDL-s-2009-10-NBA-Preview-Atlanta-Hawks?urn=nba,197466&post_comment=1&success=1
That’s the Ball Don’t Lie’s (Skeets’s) prediction of the Hawks’ season. His predicted record? 43-39! I told him I wished I could bet money with him that the Hawks would exceed that total and that I’d even give him an extra W.
Skeets, Skeets, Skeets. Sigh. Well, I guess the ball really doesn’t lie–we’ll see!
Ken Strickland
October 22nd, 2009
10:57 pm
NIREMETAL-you really should be tired of responding to comments about Bibby, since you seem to have taken it upon yourself to butt in on all comments involving Bibby that you disagree with, even if the comments aren’t directed at you. In the end, nothing any of us say or believe will matter because it’s Woodson’s call. You claim you’re tired of me saying the same things over and over. Well, at least I’m saying something. You’re argument is so weak, you can’t come with enough justification to even be repetitive. DON’T TAKE YOUR FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON ME BECAUSE YOU AND I DISAGREE AND YOU CAN’T COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER THAN A COUPLE OF LAME A$$ EXCUSES IN SUPPORT OF YOUR POSITION.
GEEMACK-while I can’t agree with everything you said, I can’t disagree with everything either. I do agree that Woodson would probably be very successful as HC of the talent and veteran ladened Celtics. I don’t see what criteria you used for stating Bibby is hands down a better PG than Teague. (1)Has he proven he’s better defensively than Teague? (2)Has he demonstrated he’s a better penetrator and interior passer? Has he demonstrated he’s better at creating easy scoring opportunities for others? Yes, Bibby is savy, dependable, effective and a clutch long range shooter, but his DEF is nonexistent and his overall OFF skills are limited. Aside from shooting long range jumpshots, what does he do to punish teams for doubling JJ, especially when the jumper isn’t falling?
I WANT A STARTING PG THAT CAN CARRY THE TEAM, NOT ONE THE TEAM HAS TO CARRY. I’m still waiting for a response to the question I asked those who insist Teague isn’t ready or hasn’t proven he’s ready to become a starter. The question was, IF YOU FEEL TEAGUE HAS DONE NOTHING TO PROVE HE’S READY OR CAPABLE OF SUCCESSFULLY STARTING, EXACTLY WHAT HAS HE DONE, OR HASN’T DONE, TO PROVE HE’S NOT READY?
gwite
October 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
As if Skeets views meant anything.
Skeets opinions mean absolutely squat!
doc
October 22nd, 2009
11:10 pm
richie, with all this young passionate blood in here, i am feeling more and more the vet role, late in the game with singular pursuits in mind for whatever is necessary. my words are being carefully chosen, not as brief but along the lines of my friend ATFan. again got tix so come on down my friend, bring the old lady and ill pass them on to you.
let the games begin, soon, please?
bigdave
October 22nd, 2009
11:13 pm
Hawks on ESPN tomorrow…
This is your brain on drugs
October 22nd, 2009
11:15 pm
“I don’t see what criteria you used for stating Bibby is hands down a better PG than Teague. (1)Has he proven he’s better defensively than Teague? (2)Has he demonstrated he’s a better penetrator and interior passer?”
Bibby an all star and a 3pt marksman with 10 years in the NBA is clearly better than a guy who is yet to play his first NBA game. paradoxically the nuclear physicist cannot see where the criteria is coming from… could it possibly be from….EXPERIENCE? DUH!@!
I guess Teague’s organic growth from the preseason work outs puts him on par with Bibby. I guess this is the same sardonic type of criticism he slings at woodson.
truly1
October 22nd, 2009
11:18 pm
ken maybe be with the team for a year an a half and play a regular season game. we must crawl before we can run
Brain Fart
October 22nd, 2009
11:18 pm
Not only hasnt Teague proven hes is ready to start. He hasnt play a game of regular season pro basketball. Before we anoint him the messiah can he play one game first?
Hahahahaha
October 22nd, 2009
11:22 pm
“I’m still waiting for a response to the question I asked those who insist Teague isn’t ready or hasn’t proven he’s ready to become a starter”
OK I give up…Who writes this Sh!t can the man prove he can play one PRO REGULAR SEASON GAME FIRST?
truly1
October 22nd, 2009
11:24 pm
this is not street ball where you can just play free there is chemistry to develop ken
Butt Fart
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 pm
No! We must anoint him now!
Dooky cloud
October 22nd, 2009
11:27 pm
Teague is the next tony parker and he must start now! Bubba crew meeting for all teague fans after the game.
niremetal
October 22nd, 2009
11:28 pm
Ken,
As I said, it’s old, but I’ll give it one last shot and then let you shout into the wind on Bibby forevermore.
You addressed me directly in that last post, and then switched midway through to Melvin, which I admittedly didn’t see since your trademarked ALL CAPS shout-out wasn’t part of that post.
But note that the conversation wasn’t even about Bibby – it was about backup centers, and yet somehow you made it about Bibby.
As for the question at the end of your last rant about Bibby – I and several others have already responded to it, and you either are ignoring the response or viewing it as idiotic. To sum up, the response was: Bibby has been and continues to be a good PG for us, so it’s silly to place the burden on us to prove that Teague ISN’T ready. The burden is on Teague to prove that he IS ready to replace Bibby. Since you, unlike literally every single other person who has posted on this topic, think Bibby is terrible and the team has to “carry him,” you try to place the burden on other people to prove that Teague isn’t ready. But that doesn’t change the fact that multiple people have responded multiple times – you just choose not to view it as a valid response, because in your view Bibby is so bad that he doesn’t deserve to remain starter unless WE prove that Teague ISN’T ready. As I said, you seem to be pretty much alone in your view of Bibby as a massive weak link, kinda like Rod is with Marvin and Clyde with Horford.
Sorry to lump you in there, but the fact that you tried to turn a conversation about backup centers into one about Bibby’s weaknesses is eerily similar to those.
Terd Burglars Anonymous
October 22nd, 2009
11:28 pm
ken dont like bibby cause hes woodys boy dats what it is
hey what does *ding* mean?
DW
October 22nd, 2009
11:28 pm
I actually usually like Skeets’ column, but, man, he was way off here. Makes me question all the other stuff I’ve read by him.
Still, it’s usually reasonably entertaining.
what kindof metal is nire
October 22nd, 2009
11:30 pm
why cant two woody haters get along?
niremeNtal
October 22nd, 2009
11:31 pm
Ahem. Skeets is hereby condemned and blackballed from the bubba crew.
bourbonandcoke
October 22nd, 2009
11:36 pm
Joe Johnson was the most obvious of the breathless ones, unfortunately, for the third year in a row. Yes, for the third season in a row, he hit a wall that you just don’t see many stars of his caliber hit, and it’s easy to see why – he was handed the role of a minutes-leading superstar without actually having earned it.
Let’s give J.J. a break. He’s an All-Star, but the Hawks can’t keep trotting him out there for 40 or 41 minutes a night while asking him to act the part of LeBron Jr.
He’s proven he can’t work that way. Replacing those minutes with Mo Evans or Jamal Crawford or a big lineup will hurt, but not as much as watching the guy who takes the majority of your shots struggle through a 36 percent shooting month, with iffy defense, just because you’re riding him too hard.
bourbonandcoke
October 22nd, 2009
11:41 pm
Dime: “After going one round farther in the ‘09 postseason than they did in ‘08, the Hawks may have hit their peak as presently constructed. A top-four seed in the East is a reasonable goal, but top-three is a stretch, and knocking off one of the Cavs/Celtics/Magic triad in Round 2 is a pipe dream. The Hawks folded up like a chair against Cleveland in the conference semis, getting outworked inside, outshot and outclassed by LeBron all over the place. Johnson’s inability to respond in that series put his abilities as a legit franchise player in question, but he is in a contract year and could be on a mission to prove himself. Durability is another key, especially in the frontcourt. The Hawks have too much talent and, as young as they are still, too much experience to miss the playoffs in the East. But at the same time, they have just enough red flags to exit quickly and quietly.” [more]
• SLAM Online: “Most people have assessed the Bibby/Zaza/Marvin extensions as good signings — which they were — but I think it’s important to realize that any of those dudes could have gone elsewhere for comparable money. That they all stayed suggests to me that they want to be in Atlanta, that they’ve bought into what the Hawks are and what they can be. So many guys in the NBA are out for self, and any of these guys could’ve been, but they wanted to be Hawks and did what it took to stay on the team. To me, that speaks not only to the kind of teammates they are but to what the Hawks have built. We have a real team now.” [more]
JOE AINT SHIZNAT. TRADE HIM FOR A CENTER AND GO PLACES. DONT WORRY ABOUT THE EXTENSION HE IS NOT A NUMBER 1 GUY AND NEVER WAS.
Ramon
October 22nd, 2009
11:42 pm
There’s no reason Teague should be able to start before the all star break (without injury) no matter how he plays. In my mind, it takes at least half of a season to prove you can play at a high level consistently. Smart coaches know that if you start a rookie, and he messes up, benching him will be the hardest thing to consider because of his confidence. Its better to start him 40 games too late than to start him 5 games too soon. And anyone who thinks Woody, in a contract year, isn’t going to go with the starting lineup that he knows can get him 50 games (this starting lineup can do that, would’ve done it previously except for injuries), then they must haven’t been paying attention. I have much confidence that Teague is going to be a special player. But he’s not ready yet, not for a playoff team.
cp
October 23rd, 2009
12:27 am
The free throw thing with Josh has to be all mental now. He really needs to get it together. We lost a few close games last year due to poor free throw shooting.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
2:48 am
Skeets made a few valid points, but I’m trying to wrap my head around how the Hawks can improve as a team but lose 4 games in the standings at the same time. I guess he’s trying to say Washington, Toronto, etc. have improved so much that they will take wins away from ATL? I doubt it.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
3:41 am
I don’t know whether this has been posted yet, but for those of you p!ssed off by Skeets, LZ Granderson of ESPN.com has a much more positive take on the Hawks (in fact I would say it’s maybe too positive).
My favorite line:
“A scout out West said, “Crawford will be like a black Ginobili. … He may not start, but you can be damn sure he’s gonna finish.”"
I’m gonna start calling him that… the Black Ginobili…
dap01
October 23rd, 2009
7:35 am
The Hawks improved in the backcour. The Hawks improved in the frontcourt. The Hawks have more depth. The Hawks young stars are more mature. The shooting should be improved. The penetration will be improved. The interior defense should be improved. The rebounding should be improved. The chemistry should be improved.
The Hawks can play with anyone. Forget about the top 3, the top 4 stuff. The Hawks can play with anyone. And with fresher and deeper team in the playoffs, I believe the Hawks will be on equal terms with any team that we face.
Hoops
October 23rd, 2009
8:02 am
dap01,
I believe you are FIRED UP about your Hawks!!!
dap01
October 23rd, 2009
8:36 am
Hoops: I am fired up. But really I was just trying to respond to the ESPN experts and those here who seem to indicate that we will never be any better than a 47 win, 2nd round playoff loser. That may be true, things go wrong, teams have bad luck.
I was trying to simply say, we have improved in EVERY area of our team. Last year we lost to a great Cleveland team while have 2-3 of our best players hurt and worn out. With any luck, we should be much better. Much better may mean we win 1-2 more games in the 2nd round and all of a sudden we are playing game 7 of the 2nd round instead of losing in game 5. And if in game 7, Jamal, Joe, Marvin, or Bibby get hot we could beat anybody.
Mychelfromatl
October 23rd, 2009
8:38 am
Back from my summer hibernation. Wow lol, there’s some interesting coversations going on in here.
Najeh, good look on that espn link.
doc
October 23rd, 2009
8:52 am
najeh long i have said it isnt who starts but who finishes games i am interested in. if tbg displaces bibby at the end of games then so be it. wouldnt be surprised at times to see both smiths in games at the end, unless marvin steps up his game or shows more of his rocks in these situations.
ILL-logical
October 23rd, 2009
9:08 am
” wouldnt be surprised at times to see both smiths in games at the end,”
Hmmm, had not thought of that combination-intriguing and very plausible.
Add Jamal and you have a line up you use if you are i down with a minute to go or 1 up with a minute to go.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:24 am
JJ had another great game. In 34 min he went 6-12, 6 reb, 8 assists with 14 pt’s. This is the kind of performance we need from Joe every night. Offense efficiency and assists mean more to the team than points on high volume.
Once again The Hawks featured the front court early and often giving the offence a balanced attack. Al, Josh and Joe Smith had good nights. Except for a few missed free throws, another great night for the Big’s.
JT had a rough night but the rest of the back court were very efficient.
Marvin and Evans combined for 20 pt’s on 6-9 shooting. Once again very efficient.
Miami was held to 38.6% shooting while posting a stellar 57.1%. The good shooting was needed because of the inability to hang on to the ball. 20 turnovers and Josh Smith’s free throw woe’s were the only thing that even kept Miami with in shouting distance. Miami’s poor shooting or Hawks good defense – I don’t know but you got to love the 38.6%
Tonight’s game on ESPN will be interesting. Only one preseason loss between the two teams. Look for ZaZa to get a lot of time against Howard. If the game is close I bet Woody will not have a problem burning the starters for a few extra minutes to get the win. Will Gundy do the same?
Can’t wait to see how JT handles Nelson. We will probably need closer to 30 assists and a drop in turnovers to beat this team. Do you hear me back court? Can Al and Josh score against Howard? Should be extremely entertaining. Go Hawks.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
9:36 am
NIREMETAL-I owe you an apology for letting my emotions get the best of me and doing to you what I suggested you were doing to me, and that’s taking out your frustrations. Like you, I’m tired of the debate, which has resulted in nothing but a stalemate. We both like Bibby, I just like what Teague brings to the table more, period. It’s obvious you like Teague, you just like what Bibby brings to the table more.
Like SAUTEE suggested earlier, let’s remain civil and agree to disagree. We’re both going to root for the same team no matter who starts at PG. I don’t mind a good debate, and I don’t mind defending my position, but when the debate becomes uncomplimentary and turns personal, the fun and focus is then lost, which is what happened with us. I hold myself to blame for some of that.
You’ve been a regular for some time and have shown that your interest and focus is on discussing the team and exchanging ideas and opinions, not engaging in meaningless personal attacks just to get attention, like the blog trash that posts under various names. When all is said and done, we’re going to have a good season and surprise a lot of people.
DOC-your comment is well received. However, it seems that JChildress had an issue with not starting, even though he played starter mins and always finished the gm.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 am
Marvin hit one game-winning shot last November against the Wizards and one that would have been a game winner against the Celtics a few days earlier except Pierce hit that shot the other way 5 seconds later. I also remember he hit big shots or sank clutch free throws at the end of games against the Thunder, Bucks (after having a terrible game the rest of the way), and of course that game where he dropped 29 on Charlotte. At UNC, he hit big shots in a number of games (the most famous being the put-back against Duke) and always “finished” despite technically being the Sixth Man. So I don’t know where the idea that he needs to show more “rocks” in these situations comes from relative to his teammates. I could make the same argument about every other player on the Hawks except for Bibby.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:43 am
Bibby vrs JT vrs Crawford.
Bibby is the man and will continue to be the man. Does that mean he will play 35 minutes? I would guess closer to 20-25 minutes by the end of the year. It also may mean that he will end up being the 5th option instead of the second option. He will still be an important leader but in a more diminished role. Every game he will test to see if he is hot. When he is hot, you got to roll with the vet.
A lot depends on how well JT and Crawford play and fit in.. If Crawford can break down defenses and average 7-8 assists, he will be hard to keep off the floor. If JT can push the ball and attack the rim without to many turn overs – he will find playing time in every game.
I think the bigger question is JJ minutes.If JT, Crawford and Bibby all play well, will Joe play 30-35 minutes or 35-40. Remember it’s contract year and he will want to go to the all star game.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:50 am
Nire,
Then explain why Marvin was the odd man out to finished games when JChill and Flip was here? And he may be the odd man out again this year if JCrawford plays well alongside JJ.
I agree with Doc, it doesnt matter who start the games but who finish in my eyes. Most of the competitive players want to be on the court at the end of the games.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 am
Kevin,
“JJ had another great game. In 34 min he went 6-12, 6 reb, 8 assists with 14 pt’s. ”
I agree those are good numbers for JJ but I have a problem with him playing 34 mins in a preseason game. Add in the fact that he playe 34 mins in the first game of back to back games. JJ is a warrior but why play him for so many mins in a meaningless preseason game is beyond me.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:55 am
CThen explain why Marvin was the odd man out to finished games when JChill and Flip was here?
Chill was someone Woody was always comfortable with at the ends of games, even when he was a rookie (back then, Smoove sat at the end). But Flip? Re-check your memory banks, my friend. I challenge you to find me even 5 games last year where Flip was on the floor at the end of the game and Marvin wasn’t, except when Marvin was out injured.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:58 am
Well, correction – make that 4 games where the outcome was in doubt towards the end and Flip was on the floor without Marvin. Because in blowouts, Woody benched all the starters at the end.
Daniel
October 23rd, 2009
10:05 am
I have no idea where this conversation is going. It was about back up centers then it was about Bibby, then it was about JT0 and what we should expect. I am confused.
BTW- I find out today if I got the tickets. I will be on 790thezone at 5:00pm today. So check it out if you can.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:07 am
PS – My prediction is that depending on the matchup, we might see offensive/defensive substitutions for the first time this year at the ends of games. I only think I remember Woody doing that once or twice in the past (when Marvin was out, I seem to remember him doing Flip/Mo substitutions a couple times). But this year with Crawford on board, we might see Crawford/Marvin substitutions down to the wire. Who knows – we might even see Bibby/Marvin or Bibby/Teague substitutions at the ends of games. All I know is JJ, Horford, and Josh will finish all games, Bibby will always finish on offense, and Marvin will always finish on D. But given our versatility at the wing positions, we can afford to mix and match at the end depending on matchups. We’ll see if Woodson has a good enough tactical mind to take advantage of that…
fudd21
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 am
Melvin,
You’re right 2 years ago Chill did finish games instead of Marvin. I believe because Woody is a defensive minded coach and Chill was one of the better, if not best, perimeter defenders on our team while here. We all talked about Marvin’s poor defense up until last year so Woody wanted him out there.
Last year when Flip finished games it was usually Bibby he was replacing not Marvin. I do believe that JC will be on the floor to finish alot of games, but I don’t necessarily beleive Marvin will be the one he will be replacing. If Smoove keeps shooting 1 – 10 from the FT line he will be hard pressed to find a place on floor to finishe especially if we are trying to hold leads.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
Nire,
I will have to revisit this conversation at later time b/c Im on the work computer with limited sites access but the Orlando (and Miami)games early last season comes to mind at this moment.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:14 am
Nire,
Agreed with your 10:07 post.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:15 am
Fudd,
Good points as well.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:18 am
Im really not that concern with who finished or start as long as we get the Win. Unless its a preseason game and I could careless if we win or lose along as we finished the preseason without injuries…
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:30 am
Melvin,
Marvin was suspended during the opening game against Orlando (and was in at the end of our only close game against Orlando, in January), and we never had a close game against Miami last season except the one at the very end of the year when Woody went with the lineup of Flip, Gardner, Mario, Othello, and Solo to finish. We didn’t have any early-season games against Miami at all (our first was on December 12 – we won by 14, and Woody benched all the starters with 1:42 left). In our first two close games of the year, against the Thunder and Celtics, Marvin not only finished but hit clutch shots.
I’ve checked about 15 games from last year, throughout the year. I can’t find a single game in which Flip finished and Marvin didn’t except in games that were blowouts and Marvin sat along with the rest of the starters and games in which Marvin was out injured.
According to 82games, Marvin actually had more “clutch” (5-point game, less than 5 minutes to go) minutes than Josh last year despite playing in 8 fewer games than Josh:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT2.HTM
Sorry, Melvin. You’re not remembering correctly. When Marvin was healthy last year, he finished.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:35 am
To clarify, Marvin played in 8 fewer games than Josh total last year, which you can see by checking any Yahoo/ESPN/NBA stat sheet for last year. But Marvin somehow played in 1 more game in which he played “clutch” minutes than Josh did, and got 6 more “clutch” minutes than Josh did over the course of the season.
None of this, of course, is to say that Josh didn’t or shouldn’t finish games – as I said, it’s a near-guarantee that JJ, Horford, and Josh will finish all games in which they are healthy. Just pointing out that Marvin didn’t play any less at the end of close games than the Hawks’ other starters.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:36 am
And now, off to work
doc
October 23rd, 2009
10:41 am
ken chills never got respect for what he did or certainly what he could mean to the team. he made the right choice in leaving. this is this year, let us see what woody has in store for us.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:47 am
Nire,
I will defer this one to you. I’m not going to argue against the stats (I meant data)…:)
newkid
October 23rd, 2009
10:59 am
Less than a week before tip-off and still no Astro Joe. Hope all is well. He’ll have some crow to eat relative to J-Cross.
vava74
October 23rd, 2009
11:24 am
The guy I respect the most in BBall journalism is Charlie Rosen (foxsports.com) and he usually puts the Hawks’ future success in J-Smoove’s shoulders.
I tend to agree with him and without being able to corroborate with an actual viewing of the match, looking at the play by play, the boxscore and the way the game unraveled yesterday we can extrapolate that J-Smoove had a kind of an off-day which could have cost us the game if we were playing for real.
1-10 from the line is atrocious and inexcusable, but I am also concerned with his 5 meager rebounds (ZERO offensive) and 3 TOs in 21.35min.
He did get 3 steals to go along with 1 block and 4-6 line from the field, but the Hawks let Magloire snatch 8 rebounds in 12 minutes and J-Smoove must have some responsibility there.
GeeMack
October 23rd, 2009
11:51 am
Good Luck Daniel I hope you get the tickets.
Hawks fan gotta a question….What do the Hawks need to do this season to be a dominate defensive team. At this point personnel is what it is. If we could get that nastiness defensively & on the boards. I think we a have chane to really push the big 3 in the east.
The game that really comes to mind when I think about a superior defensive mind set is the 1st game in Bos. last year. If we play defense and rebound like Woody designs it we could give teams fits.
What ya’ll think?
vava74
October 23rd, 2009
12:18 pm
GeeMack,
In line with my previous post, I believe that you are right and that, in my opinion, it all boils down to Josh.
He is definitely not suited to be an effective SF since his shot is suspect (to say the least) hence, instead of discussing that Al is an undersized C (ignoring that he puts up the numbers he should, for instance, in rebounding) the focus of the discussion must be on J-Smoove who has been clearly playing “too small” for what is required from him.
Our success will depend on many things, however, one of the most important will be Josh’s committing or not to rebounding and raising his average to at least 10rpg.
Our starting front court must average at least 27/28rpg, without this, we will not be successful.
Stating the Obvious
October 23rd, 2009
12:47 pm
“Our starting front court must average at least 27/28rpg, without this, we will not be successful.”
There isn’t a single team i nthe league that averages that
vava74
October 23rd, 2009
1:08 pm
Yeah, I went a bit overboard there!!!
What I meant to say is that we need that both J-Smoove and Al average around 10rpg and that Marvin can contribute with 6.
This will still give an average of around 25 which should lead the NBA, however, not only I think that this is achievable but also that it is a must for us.
Daniel
October 23rd, 2009
1:22 pm
Thanks Gee,
I know this isn’t the answer you want to hear, but I think it is the most accurate answer I can give. I think the key for this team to improve defensively is an overall team commitment to team defense. Starting with Bibby all the way down to Hunter. Josh does need to rebound more, but a swarming ball hawking defense is just as important. Steals are a must.
Good shots on offense will help the defense. No long shots that give long rebounds and fast break opportunities.
Man, If Josh can’t hit his free throws this year, we will be in trouble. Does someone actually get better at that when they have a rough time in the pre-season? This is the one aspect of the pre-season that I find troubling.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
1:25 pm
As I’ve said: Sports psychologist. Most guys have too much pride to use one, but sometimes it’s necessary. Josh’s issues at the line are just too manic to be physical or mechanical.
Antonio Bolton
October 23rd, 2009
1:46 pm
We need that big body inside and SIler has that. Tell me how they sliiped on that. IT was evident that we were missing beef on the inside when we played Cleveland even if he doesn’t score a point as teast he is that big body we need inside to keep peopel from just running around and going straight down the middle of our defense. We had a good year last year but that one was the one thing that needed to be addressed.
ILL-logical
October 23rd, 2009
1:56 pm
He is definitely not suited to be an effective SF since his shot is suspect (to say the least) hence,
The PERCEPTION of a players ability to shoot has little if anything to do with the players value to the team and the team’s success. I have cited several players such as Andrian Dantly who had a long and extremely sucessful career as a small forward who did not posses an accurate outside shot.
The key is the system employed by the coach. Detroit for example, used Tayshun Prince as a defensive stopper at the small forward position and had a great deal of success. My point is that many participants on this board conflate their opinion into fact even when there is abundant evidence to the contrary.
BTW, if Josh did play the small forward postion-not likely under the Woodson regime for some fairly painful reasons- he would be able to physically overpower 90% of the other small forwards not named LeBron , Artest or Carmelo. But the truth is that There is no confidence on the part of Woodson or Mr. Sund that Al can be effective at the power forward position and Marvin who is at least 15 lbs heavier and has a greater wingspan is not even a consideration? So, while we all can opine about who should be where and do what to our heart’s desire, there are some cold ,hard facts to consider as well.
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
2:06 pm
I know that Woody wanted to beat Miami last night, but I disagree in playing JJ 34 minutes only because of our 2nd game in as many nights. And I would love for us to beat Orlando. Let’s hope Woody does a good job of keeping JJ fresh for the 4th quarter tonight.
doc
October 23rd, 2009
2:29 pm
funny our favorite whipping posts have been put into action … woody and josh. wasnt there a discussion about how much our fan base has grown and matured, maybe even began to have some insight. the same folks may be the ones wondering why the national mdeia cant change hw it sees the hawks.
tooo friggin funny.
friggin cant even let the season start before the come back to their pet peeves.
btw did anyone see that d wade played about 30 minutes last night?
jerrywest
October 23rd, 2009
2:32 pm
Zaza/Collins playing tonight?
Collins didn’t travel to the game last night.
Tonight’s game will be treated like a regular season game. It’s a statement game. It’s a national TV game. It’s against an elite division rival that’s suppose to be far superior to us. When was the last time we were on national TV during the pre-seaon? Never. It’s a big game. It may not count in the table, but it will have great psychological implications if the losing team has 100% of its rotation available.
jerrywest
October 23rd, 2009
2:35 pm
I wish we unleashed Siler on Howard tonight and then waive him tomorrow. It would have been a site to see. Good or bad.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
3:50 pm
DOC-I certainly appreciated his overall talent and value to the team. I only wish we could find a way to bring him back. It would take at least 3 gifted players to approximate his overall worth. But I’m with you, the way Sund misjudged his value and mishandled his situation, he won’t consider coming back here.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
3:59 pm
Not for nothing, but Flip and Mo are just two guys, and they did pretty darned well for us while taking way less money combined than we offered Chills, and other NBA teams weren’t exactly moving mountains to get Chill this summer. Just sayin.
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right
October 23rd, 2009
4:01 pm
After an offseason that saw the Hawks keep their three best free agents (Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia), strengthen their bench (Jamal Crawford, Joe Smith, Jason Collins), eliminate both a punchline (Limpy Claxton) and a draft mistake (Acie Law), and draft a promising guard (Jeff Teague), optimism surrounding the franchise seems near an all-time high.
So here’s my question: Is everybody else seeing something we’re not?
The Hawks won one playoff round last season. How many will they win in 2009-10?
By now, you’ve might’ve heard that several national media outlets have projected the Hawks this season to finish on par or even below last season’s results. Actually, I have yet to find one that has them either: 1) winning more games, or, 2) winning more than one playoff round.
This hit home a little harder Thursday night. I received an email from Bodog.com, an online sportsbook, which does a pretty good job accurately reflecting the feelings in Las Vegas (and I’m still waiting for at least one hotel-casino magnate there to say: “You know. We really blew it with those odds. I think I’m just going to build a nice little Best Western with a coffee shop over here.”).
According to some of Bodog’s prop bets, the over/under on the Hawks’ win total is 44.5, which is a step back from last season’s 47.
The “dis” factor doesn’t end there. Some examples:
♦ First coach to be fired: The Hawks’ Mike Woodson is 3-1. That ties him with Chicago’s Vinny Del Negro as the No. 2 favorite — barely behind the leader, Lawrence Frank (9-5). Not sure how that affects contract extension talks.
♦ Southeast Division: Hawks are 15-2 to win the division, which is third behind Orlando (1-4) and Miami (13-2), whom the Hawks beat in the playoffs last season, and they’re barely ahead of fourth-rated Washington (10-1). Looking for a longshot? Charlotte is 55-1.
♦ Eastern Conference: Hawks are 20-1 to win the conference title, which is tied with Chicago, Detroit and Miami for a DISTANT fourth behind Cleveland (5-4), Boston (2-1) and Orlando (3-1).
♦ NBA title: Hawks are 45-1 to win it, which ranks tied for 11th. (Lakers are favorites at 2-1.)
A few other observations follow.
♦The Sporting News has been previewing each team, one per day, backwards from No. 30. The Hawks check in at No. 12 overall and will rank only sixth in the East, behind — in uncertain order as of today — Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, Washington and, yikes, even Toronto.
♦ ESPN had a panel of 10 each predict standings. Most have the Hawks fourth in the East. Once exception is Chris Sheridan, who tabbed them for seventh. His analysis: “Mike Bibby didn’t look like he had a lot left in the tank last season. I was surprised they re-signed him and thought Andre Miller would have been a better fit. Joe Johnson is entering a contract year. And newcomer Jamal Crawford likes to put up 20 shots a night. Hmmm.”
♦ Sports Illustrated picks the Hawks to finish fifth in the East. An excerpt from an unnamed scout: “I like their signings of Joe Smith and Jason Collins because they needed
size off the bench. Those are moves a contender would make, and moves the Hawks didn’t make in the past.
♦ ♦ ♦
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right
October 23rd, 2009
4:03 pm
Jermaine Oneal is better than Horford
kwooden1
October 23rd, 2009
4:05 pm
Has anyone talked about the fact that Joe Smith was +23 in last nights game! I don’t think to much about this stat, but it definitely says something about the impact Joe Smith had on the game. Hopefully Josh Smith will get his free throws together for tonights game. I think Josh just has to relax more once he’s misses few at the line. I think he will work his way through this fine.
GO HAWKS!
Who let the dog out!!!
October 23rd, 2009
4:10 pm
what kindof metal is nire – Bullzeye on the why cant to Woody haters get along. Tell me. How much wood could a Woody hater chuck if a Woody hater could chuck Wood?
Weigh Dezz Nuttz
October 23rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Ken Strickland that was no stalemate. He got that AISSZE. RIPPED YOU A NEW ONE!
The Truth
October 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
INTERESTING
This sports-writer sounds like he has been ease-dropping on this blog. So much of his context is very similar to our discussions about Marvin.
Sund comments:
“He’s a great team player, but at some point in time you’d like him to take over games, and I’ve talked to him about that,” said Rick Sund, the Hawks’ general manager.”
My question to Sund: When are you going to have that same discussion with Josh? He’s the one that is actually getting paid to play this role. Marvin is really paid to be a role player not a superstar.
kwooden1
October 23rd, 2009
4:22 pm
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right – Bill Simmons (ESPN) predicted the HAWKS wouldn’t make the playoffs last year! Obviously they can be wrong! We’re fans here, so we definitely see things that others don’t!!
GO HAWKS!!!
what kindof metal is nire - why cant two woody haters get along?
October 23rd, 2009
4:24 pm
HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODY HATER CHUCK IF A WOODY HATER COULD CHUCK WOODY HATER COULD CHUCK WOOD. – AN AUTOGRAPHED PICTURE OF KEN POSING WITH HIS PINOCCHIO TROPHY TO THE FIRST MAN(OR WOMAN) WHO CAN SAY THIS THREE TIMES REAL FAST.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
4:41 pm
Since tonights preseason gm is our last, we’ll get to see Woodson’s rotation, as well as an idea of how he’ll utilize each player. I’m anxious to see how we’ll play DHoward. I also want to see how we’ll use Joe Smith.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
4:44 pm
Chills game is perfectly suited for “Euro ball”. Looks a lot more impressive than it actually is.
I guess he sees(saw) most of these international players signed to these outrageous contracts, only turning out to be role players at best, so he wanted one of those type contracts.
Sorry it didn’t work out like that for Chills. Like every other player so far, with the Hawks, he was offered a very fair contract by Sund.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
5:05 pm
Chills is a plug and play player at multiple positions. His also young with upside. gwite – what was Chills offered by Sund. It was not 6 millon or I am sure he would have stayed.
wordsmithtom
October 23rd, 2009
5:19 pm
Marvin Williams is a team guy. He’s also a stud with experience and youth. Chris Weber was Marvin’s age when he played his first NBA game. I’d like to see Marvin run a few 2n’d team plays with Teague and Crawford. Both can pass. Teague penetrating and dishing to Marvin down low or out to Crawford. West coast ball. Run and gun; pound em pound em.
This team is a LOT stronger than last year. Make no mistake about it.
Being able to intermix some of the first team with second team players to better match up with whichever team they’re playing is a real asset. The addition of Smith and Crawford +Teague with subtraction of only one guy makes this team deep and dangerous.
Whipped Miami handily last night in Fla.
fudd21
October 23rd, 2009
5:21 pm
KevinA, you’re right it wasn’t 6 million….it was 7 million.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
5:23 pm
KevinA, at the time, I think the qualifying offer was(or would have been) for close to 5M. Sund’s m.o. so far is to go with about that, and let the market take it from there.
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:00 pm
GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEE THIS TWO VIDEOS.
1. CNN: Lou Dobbs or Latinos in America
2. Dobbs History of hate and paranoia
DROP THE HATE LOU DOBBS!
doc
October 23rd, 2009
6:07 pm
nire, that wasnt a plug for chills only to call what is and times have changed nor was it to start a discussion. crawford is ours now instead of chills, essentially, when you check the economics of it. instead of chills and maybe another 3 to 4 mil guy to make up the difference we have crawford. would two have been better than one? maybe if it was for a bass instead. still dont think chills got the respect nor credit for what he did to help get the team as far as they got two years ago. dont suggest he is a savior. do think we would have been more competitive with chills when marvin went down and we had so many dragging in the series with cleveland. still dont think it would have changed the outcome though we might have made 50 wins with him. maybe not as flip did some very important things chills couldnt. “flip on roids”crawford has the potential to do just that, be a savior.
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:21 pm
DOBBS’ HISTORY OF HATE
Over the years, Dobbs has consistently used his CNN platform to spread hatred and fear. He played a critical role in the right’s successful effort to derail immigration reform in 2006, and his obsession with the issue of immigration and with defeating immigration reform continues unabated. Adding to his repertoire of hate and fear-mongering, he has recently promoted the racially-tinged charge of the “birther” conspiracists who seek to attack the legitimacy of Obama’s presidency.
It is time to demand accountability from advertisers who, by their purchase of airtime on his show, actively support his hate speech. When advertisers sponsor Lou Dobbs, this is what they are paying for:
Dobbs advanced racially charged conspiracy theories about Obama’s birth certificate.
Dobbs has close ties to “hate group” FAIR.
Dobbs said Sotomayor nomination was “absolute pandering to the Hispanics.”
Dobbs declared that “Mexico has become our enemy.”
Dobbs smeared U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce as “interested in the export of American capital and production to Mexico, and Mexico’s export of drugs and illegal aliens.”
Dobbs fear-mongered about Mexican “reconquista” plot.
Dobbs aired hate group graphic to illustrate “the Vicente Fox Aztlan tour.”
Dobbs spread leprosy falsehood in claiming “invasion of illegal aliens” is threatening Americans’ “health.”
Dobbs asked if Obama is “pandering to ethnocentric special interests again” by accepting Gov. Bill Richardson’s endorsement.
Dobbs praised Philadelphia English-only sign ruling as “a defeat for ethnocentric special interests.”
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:23 pm
Dobbs has consistently used his national platform to spread misinformation, including racially charged, fringe conspiracy theories about immigrants and President Obama’s birth certificate.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
6:30 pm
HATS OFF-as reliable as you might feel some of these guys are, how many of them predicted or gave odds on the Hawks winning 47gms, grabbing the 4th seed in the East and advancing to the 2nd rd of the playoffs last yr? The same unreliable guessing they employed last yr has been employed this yr. If I’m not mistaken, these same prognosticators and odds makers had Cleveland heavily favored to defeat Orlando in last yrs playoffs as well. It’s up to the players and coaches to determine what a team does and where they finish during the season, not a bunch of self proclaimed experts and arm chair prognosticators.
When it comes to teams like the Hawks, who have a history of inconsistency and/or losing, a rather dismissive attitude is usually employed by these people/groups when making their assessment. Hopefully, players and coaches around the league will embrace that same mentality and allow the Hawks to sneak past them like we did last season.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
6:42 pm
Chills’s QO and cap hold are a near-irrelevancy next summer because we are going to bell over the cap anyway thanks to the massive cap hold for JJ, and even renounce our Bird rights in JJ, our cap space will be right around the mid-level after the mandatory cap holds get factored in. Under those circumstances, we wouldn’t really gain anything by renouncing Chills anyway, because all we really will be working with is the mid-level (which we would have even if we made a QO to Chills) plus a few hundred thou – which frankly won’t be enough to get anyone significantly better than Chill. (For the same reason, renouncing JJ makes no sense, but that’s a different story). We’d be crazy not to give Chill a QO and force teams to go through us if they are interested in signing him.
On a related note, Chill’s game is actually NOT good for the Euroleague. Wings in Europe are expected to shoot, pass, and shoot some more. Chill is most effective getting offensive rebounds, getting points off broken plays, and driving to the basket. He is actually at his least effective shooting from the perimeter. And frankly, the Euro game does not place a premium on good perimeter D, which is Chill’s greatest strength of all. That being said, playing in Europe might force him to become a better shooter, which will help his game if he ever returns to the NBA.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
6:43 pm
How many besides me think resigning JJ could hinge on how well Crawford plays this yr. While we were drubbing the Wizards, Crawford displayed his excellent passing skills, and Woodson, in particular, took notice. Passing is one of JJ’s strong suits, and if Crawford can show that same ability, we might end up limiting our efforts to resign JJ. He’s already demonstrated a scoring ability that’s on par with JJ. While Crawford hasn’t shown he’s as consistent as JJ as a shooter, he has demonstrated he’s a better penetrator. At any rate, it’ll be interesting to watch as it unfolds.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
6:57 pm
While Crawford hasn’t shown he’s as consistent as JJ as a shooter, he has demonstrated he’s a better penetrator.
I had to go check 82games to be sure on this one, but my gut was right – JJ takes a higher percentage of his shots in the paint than does Crawford and makes a higher percentage of the ones he does take. So I’d say that one is a tough sell.
Yup Melvin, just used stats. Not any of the 5 “traditional” stats though
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
7:01 pm
Of course, that might change given what Crawford’s role on the Hawks will be…
Here are JJ’s and Crawford’s stats for comparison.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
7:45 pm
nire – what was the offer to Chills – I never read it. I just assumed it was a floating number that was never published. I also have never read a statement by Chills that his decision to go overseas had anything to do with not starting. Did I miss the facts or just Chill’s decision for what he thought was a better opportunity.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
7:52 pm
Chills aside we are a few minutes away from a big game. Like it or not – unless one team gets a big lead this game will be decided by the starters. Minutes be darned. National TV. You know what? Lets go get this win. I hope Crawford and JJ continue their assist assault.
Did Daniel win the tickets?
rms
October 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm
You would think the only relevant teams in the NBA are just the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, And Celtics if you watch ESPN. Those guys worship Kobe and Lebron. I understand it being a star studded league but dang what about Roy and the Blazers, Bosh and the Rapters, Duncan and the Spurs,or dare I say Johnson and the HAWKS!!! I say come up with another network that goes up against ESPN and dont slob the knob of just certain players but all the players for the teams good or bad.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm
“Sund Discusses Childress Decision”
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9576
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:07 pm
Hubie:
“face it, this team has enough talent its 10 deep”
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:10 pm
gwite,
Thanks for the link. I find it much harder to understand Chill’s decision. The difference between 5.7 and 6 million per year seems crazy. I had thought his offer was much smaller.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:10 pm
Howard fouls Al – push it kid
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:11 pm
early looks for Horford… miss jumper, bobbled pass, quick move draw foul on Howard…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:15 pm
hmm…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:15 pm
crap – such a bad pass. Good time out.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm
This is my first time actually seeing the Hawks play since I was in Philips for Game 4 of the Hawks-Cavs series in May, and to be honest, I see no difference. They are running the same plodding, perimeter-oriented offense, Josh Smith is still spending too much time on the perimeter, Joe Johnson is still pounding the ball too much, and they are not going to the post often enough.
I realize some teams don’t show everything in their offensive arsenal in the preseason, and maybe that’s the case here, but if Mr. Potato-Head is really committed to speeding up the tempo like he said in an interview this summer, he sure ain’t showing it.
I’m not changing my 50-win expectation — this team is much deeper than last year and that alone should account for an increase in wins. But I’d like to see the offense open up like we’ve all been hoping ever since Woody was hired, and so far I’m not seeing any of that.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm
Ugly start for the Hawks. Offense look stagnant and we are still switching on pick n roll on defense. I thought they were suppose to get rid of the switching on def this year…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm
same here Najeh and agreed….
im actually anticipating Crawford and Teague with combinations of this group… still standing around watching.. waiting for someone to shoot… can’t believe it…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:22 pm
Take Bibby out, Time for Crawford or JT.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:23 pm
this is the lineup i wanted to see… Teague, Crawford, Johnson…
Horford has to step up his awareness on the offensive end…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:23 pm
Mercy
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:24 pm
Damn… I am glad this game doesn’t count.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:26 pm
“this is the lineup i wanted to see… Teague, Crawford, Johnson…”
Yeah, but when they go with that lineup they have to run. There’s no way they can play at the same plodding pace with that lineup.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
I guess I’m gonna start the FIRE MIKE WOODSON bandwagon this year everybody jump on
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
Look at how the Hawks are playing tonight. And we wonder why we are not on National TV or why the critics dont give us any love.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:28 pm
Najeh – right – time to run – change the pace.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
8:28 pm
Oh lord! SMH :-/! The Hawks look terrible right now. They are leaving players open. The Ryan Anderson guy needs a heat check dog gone it. Gotta work on road games. UGGGH! Leave players open against Orlando and they’re just gonna rain threes on yeah. My eyes can’t take it, I hope I can sit through this game.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:28 pm
absolutely not… and its no excuse why they shouldnt… but what you do see is the ability to dribble penetrate… maybe a dish down low, or a kick out for an open 3… but no standing around waiting for the ball to be passed to you so u can take a 3 or a jumper… yuck… sick of it…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:30 pm
i just wanna see Teague hit a jumper with consistency and ill be ready to bring Bibby off the bench.. swear to God…
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:33 pm
Damn did WOodson teach this team anything. They look horrible. Embarrased on national television.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:34 pm
Are you trying to suggest that the Fire Woodson bandwagon stopped at some point? Clyde would like to have a word with you…
Mychelfromatl
October 23rd, 2009
8:35 pm
Thank yo God this is only a preseason game, Thank you God!!!!
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
8:35 pm
Everyone sucks at everything right now. Starters, bench, offense, defense. Depressing to watch.
J.J.M.
October 23rd, 2009
8:36 pm
“they are who we thought the were”
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:36 pm
Now I understand why no one thought the Hawks could compete with the big 3. They are no where close to being as good as the big 3
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:37 pm
yuck.
we play spot up basketball with limited shooting ability as a team… this could be very interesting. given that we pretty much shot lights out last year. it would be hard to match that again. same ole’ same ole’… Lord have mercy… Joe will get 40 a night again. can we please run some motion offense with Teague or Crawford at point. take advantage of our bigs athleticism…
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
8:37 pm
UGGGH, what the heck was that. The Hawks look awkward out there. The Magic clearly look like the SE division champs. Oh well, back to work Hawks. Orlando 8-0, Hawks 5-2! Ok, let’s be optimistic here perhaps they’ll look better in the 2nd quarter.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
8:38 pm
Hubie Brown just made an excellent point. The Hawks don’t rebound the ball well, especially on the defensive boards and the magic are getting whatever they want inside. The lack of size against the better teams will show itself.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:39 pm
too much dribbling and faking Horford out of the post sir… 1 move and go
J.J.M.
October 23rd, 2009
8:39 pm
look at all the players standing around
Sautee
October 23rd, 2009
8:40 pm
Well there goes all the air out of that possibly overinflated preseason balloon.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:40 pm
the hell is all that guard sizing up he does… who teaches this kid? is Tyrone Hill still our bigs coach… he plays the post like a damn guard…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:40 pm
oh my we stinking up the joint.. and they looking crisp..
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
8:41 pm
Dribble, dribble, dribble, pass one time, shoot and hope like hell the ball goes in the net. These are not the Hawks that show up @ the Highlight Factory.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:42 pm
oh… goodness is he Acie Law?
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:42 pm
Man why don’t we have an offense. It’s just dribble dribble and shoot.
Mychelfromatl
October 23rd, 2009
8:43 pm
SMH, This looks like the same Hawks team from ‘08.
-No energy on the road
-Same stagnant offense
-Woodrow looking like “What the Hell?”
To look at the bright side of things, I’d rather for the Hawks get embarrased on National TV now than when it really counts during the regular season.
Damn, did Mo Evans just shoot an airball SMH??
Looks like the Hawks ready to end the preseason and come home, CAUTION: DON’T READ TOO MUCH INTO THIS GAME.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:44 pm
why when someone is dribbling to the whole our players find the 3 pt line and spot up.. why is arent we going to the cup.. Mo found the 3 pt. line and waited for a shovel pass from Teague instead of trying to go to the basket.. WE ARENT THAT GOOD OF A SHOOTING TEAM… GEESH… sooo perimeter oriented its a shame and a deficiency… !!!
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:45 pm
Orlando has picked up on Cleveland’s strategy from last year — double Joe as soon as he gets the ball, knowing that the Hawks won’t rotate the ball quickly enough to get a quality shot. That has to be fixed ASAP. Every half-decent team is going to use the same strategy to attack the Hawks until they find a way to counter it.
If there’s any silver lining to this, it’s that the Hawks clearly are not playing with their usual intensity either. Maybe, like Mike Breen says, they are playing like they want the preseason to end. Regardless, I think when the season starts and they start playing with their usual intensity they will look better. At least I hope so.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:46 pm
Can anybody suggest a coach for when we fire Woodson later this season?
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:48 pm
lets see some Crawford at the point Woody!!
Mychelfromatl
October 23rd, 2009
8:49 pm
Why the hell is the starters still playing?? This is a receipt for disaster. SMH Woodrow SMDH.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:49 pm
good quick move Al
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
8:50 pm
The Hawks are simply TOO SMALL up front. There is no resistance in the paint WHAT SO EVER! That’s where the game is won and lost folks.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:55 pm
i dont think there’s a true point guard on this team…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:56 pm
This game is reminding me a lot of this.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:57 pm
can someone give Josh the ball on the blocks so we can see him work…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:58 pm
Hahaha… at least Bibby still remembers how to flop…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:59 pm
Joe Johnson’s mid range game has fell off every since Bibby got here…
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
8:59 pm
On offense, the Hawks are all perimeter and nothing inside. Lack of size rears it’s ugly head again
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:02 pm
can u sit Bibby down and put in Crawford at point…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
9:02 pm
Lack of inside scoring is not directly related to size. There have been so many players throughout the history of the NBA that were able to score inside without dominating with their size. Even in today’s NBA, players like Elton Brand, Zach Randolph, etc. regularly put up points against taller players. It’s a matter of committing to having an inside scoring game from the coaching staff. Josh and Al are by no means polished post players, but they are not going to become that unless they are given opportunities to do so.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:03 pm
Bibby and JJ 3-11, where have we seen that before.
Sautee
October 23rd, 2009
9:03 pm
Josh and Al are 7-10. Why are we shooting jumpshots?
Sautee
October 23rd, 2009
9:04 pm
Najeh,
Word
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:05 pm
great pass…good catch Z…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:06 pm
Where are the assists by JJ, Crawford and JT. Thats how we win. Josh jumper lol – were down to that.
rms
October 23rd, 2009
9:08 pm
Dang man we cant complain about why all the so call experts are hating on the Hawks. We are showcasing to the whole world why they should not respect us but only the Celtics, Cavs,and Magic
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:11 pm
Howard may be the best player in the NBA – won’t feed him the ball – chemistry problems down the road? Like I have always said – you can win jump shooting but if the bigs are playing well you got to feed them the ball. For us Josh and Al are playing the best. Back court into the samo ………..
ILL-logical
October 23rd, 2009
9:15 pm
Same stuff, different shovel: big game and only Josh shows up. Now we know why the “experts” say what they have said about the team. the good news is that we now know what needs to happen for the Hawks to progress-the facts are the facts.
cp
October 23rd, 2009
9:16 pm
I see Woodson still has the same offense he has has since day one. No new wrinkles no new nothing. We look like the same team from the past few years on the offensive side of the ball. This switching defense does not work yet we still do it. And as always, Horford starts to warm up but instead of feeding him the ball we go right back to throwing up jumpers. Can we please get an offensive guy in here to help Woodson.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:21 pm
Teague jacking up jumpers with no assists. We will lose this game but I would still like to see Crawford get minutes and show what he can do. He is a vet that should not be troubled by being behind. Josh and Al are playing well enough – need that break down skill at play to get easy buckets.
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
9:23 pm
BIG dave i said that before we sign bibby back that we should have let him go because no matter how many points he score he hurt us bad on the defense end of the court because of our lack of size in the back court.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm
News flash to those of you who want Crawford to run the point – he was for a lot of possessions. They had Teague playing off-guard quite a bit. Crawford was not passing the ball well.
Not that I can blame him. There has been zero off-ball movement tonight. Sound familiar?
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:27 pm
Mercy Bibby starting – did he earn it?
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:29 pm
Uh…did ANYONE earn it?
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
9:30 pm
Guys,
Whats up with Josh and his free throw shooting?
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:32 pm
The Hawks have no offensive game. Why is Teague not playing the pt. I thought I saw that at the game on Monday. I’d rather see Teague at the point and Crawford at shooting guard. Are the Hawks afraid of the middle. They’re always jacking up shots. When your shots aren’t falling, shouldn’t they go for layups. I’ll just chalk it up to being preseason. Come the first road game we’ll see if this game was a fluke or not.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:33 pm
Hard to watch
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:34 pm
I’m sorry, but are the people who are asking for Teague and Crawford actually watching the game??? They were every bit as bad.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:35 pm
My Gosh, the Hawks looks like a high school team out there….
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:36 pm
Mz. Hawkdafied,
This is why the jury is still out on Woody. Making adjustments can’t hurt. What is there to lose – preseason.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:36 pm
Nire,
JJ and Bibby is not playing any better. They are the leaders of poor play tonight.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:36 pm
I knew the possibility of a loss was there but I at least thought the Hawks would be competitive.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:37 pm
didnt see Crawford with the starters at PG… id like to see that vs more of Bibby bringing it pass half court and passing it to Joe at qrt. court. just to see what we have ya know.. maybe to get a little something going towards the cup… someone who is at least a threat to blow by his defender, pull up, or dish… i mean.. just to see, it is pre season… getting tired of the same ole’ play from Bibby…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:37 pm
well look at that…
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
9:38 pm
Woodson has been outcoached by every coach in the league at one time or another.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:38 pm
Joe hasnt played bad Melvin…
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 pm
Not ball or player movement and too much one on one on offense tonight.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 pm
Sorry, but the Magic are going inside every time down the floor and the Hawks are working hard to shoot jumpers. The proof is in the pudding folks.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 pm
Well, we’re seeing that Jamal/JJ backcourt now…
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 pm
Vince Carter is 9 for 10, 90% from the field. Who is guarding him? JJ?
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
9:40 pm
hawks can not win on the ROAD. they have no heart!! they get PUNKED on the road. oh well, who do we blame? woody? jj?
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:40 pm
JJ 1-6 – when does it become bad
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:41 pm
yes sir we are.. and its looking good to me…
ill advised shot there from Joe… he was feeling his shot though…
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
9:41 pm
Actually, Marvin is guarding Vince Carter.
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
9:41 pm
I meant the Magic are 9 for 10. But it is obvious what Woody does when the team is struggling.
Iso JJ.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:42 pm
bigdave,
Joe is 2-8 with 5 turnovers.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:42 pm
blame the whole mofo team ant banks! the coaches and players!
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
9:42 pm
the startin’ 5 got blown out
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:43 pm
i liked his aggressiveness, i thought he was fouled on 3 shot attempts going to the cup…
Coach is always worried about the wrong things, ” i want Jamal to lead the league in scoring coming off the bench”…
sounds like the Joe and mins thing…
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:43 pm
Terrible pass by Crawford…this is just embarrassing. Productive ball movement is non-existent, no matter who is on the floor.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:45 pm
yeah the starters played most of this game. not good at all.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:46 pm
Josh cant get a touch in the post…
watched every bit of it Melvin… aware of his stats..
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
9:46 pm
I don’t think this can all be blamed on Woody. He has NO post offense and he has NO post defense. That’s not his fault.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:46 pm
Singling any one player or players is just plain silly tonight. I’m sorry, but it is. The whole damned team is playing like sh!t, but I guess some people will blame their personal least favorites no matter what.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:46 pm
Wow an assist to a big – worst one we got – amazing.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
9:47 pm
well we know the hawks aren’t winning the division.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:48 pm
bigdave,
I dont see any bright spots from this game tonite. No need to review the tape. Matter of fact, turn off the cameras…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:49 pm
so why act like you do Jody… why does he elect a slower tempo of basketball?
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:51 pm
Marvin comes in with not a single minute for Hunter. Why not?
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:51 pm
Shid Niremetal I blame the whole team, all the ones that played, and the freaking coaches too. I’m having flashbacks and I don’t like it. Where is the improvement from last season? Is the paper lying?
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:51 pm
im trying to find something in Teague’s pro game that separates him from the likes of Acie Law…
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:52 pm
I hate to say it…but RandMo actually doesn’t look godawful. Playing very good defense on D-12.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 pm
Bigdave,
You can’t push the tempo or run when there’s nothing to rebound. Everything the Magic is getting is right at the basket. You may disagree and that’s fine, but that’s what I see.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 pm
jt to morris – our only weapon lol
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 pm
You down 30pts in a preseason game, why not clear the bench. There’s nothing to learn from this game. Play the freaking reserves (Hunter) already…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:54 pm
At least the kid is trying.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:54 pm
With you Melvin.
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
9:55 pm
you guys were saying that teague was good and a stud he is abosolute trash, he cant shoot and is scared to go to the rim jameer is destroying him no way atlanta will get a top 3 spot in the east or win the division
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
9:56 pm
Ah, Dwight just dunked on RandMo. The Hawks are looking like the joke people who are not fans make them out to be.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
9:57 pm
Damn the experts were right this team is absolutely atrocious. I can’t stand hollinger but he’s right. The Hawks are some phonies.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
9:58 pm
Nire… yea, but it looks like he has a lil lead in his Nike’s… but that could just be the effect of Dwight Howard…
Jody..
sure but im not talking about breaking off rebounds. im talking about the speeding up our offense, going quick, early. instead of allowing defense to set and target on pick and rolls…
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
9:59 pm
Haha….nothing Randolph could have done there. Nothing anyone could have done. D-12 didn’t go around or through him, but he’s so quick and his arms are so long that he just dunked on him.
He looks like Shaq when Shaq was in his prime. No one could stop Shaq except Shaq.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
9:59 pm
Joe Smith no burn? Collins stil hurt? Why is Marvin playing?
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
10:00 pm
Dear Mike Woodson,
This game is why we didn’t extend ur contract u dumb@ss
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
1. this is a statement game for orlando. they are sendin’ a message to the hawks that orlando is the king of the south east.
2. a loss of 30 pts or more in the final preseason game will be demoralizin’ to the hawks and it will carry over to wednesday game against indy.
3. hawks will lose against indy. beat washington. then it gets brutal 4west coast road games.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
doublet23 Jeff Teague gets a pass he’s a rookie. However the vets are a totally different story. The Hawks just suck on the road. They play totally different at home. They did not look like this in the 3 home preseason games. Miami and Memphis are not that good that’s why they were able to beat them on the road. But Orlando and Detroit are a whole different ball game.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
Wow…I just looked at the box score for the first time. 0-11 for Teague with 2 assists, both to RandMo. Geez…
Wink
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
Embarassment in Orlando. Organic growth or talented players; organic growth getting killed.
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
in 3 qtr. the hawks let orlando put up 100pts? wtf?
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:02 pm
NO TEAM IN THE LEAGUE HAS LOST BY MORE THAN 30PTS DURIN’ THE PRESEASON. WTF?
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
Where is Hunter?
And Woody still has no offensive identity. Dribble, dribble, pass the ball, and somebody shoots. Where are the set plays?
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
ant banks the Hawks will beat Indy on Wednesday no doubt in my mind, however I agree with everything else.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
ladies and gentlemen the Orlando Magic are a problem.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
Don’t give up the boat – this is maybe the best or top 4 teams in the league at home. Are we ready fot the best? I think not. But can we beat the lesser 20 teams in the league – Sure.
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm
Why every time marvin go to the hole he looks clumsy.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm
Bigdave,
Oh I agree with you there. I think the Hawks should be trying to attack quicker and before the defense gets set, but that’s not going to be enough to stay in games especially when the elite teams are getting layups whenever they want.
Samuel
October 23rd, 2009
10:06 pm
Just got back from my high school football game. What happened? I’m sure it’s Woody’s fault.
I don’t know why you guys are so surprised. I believe I told you that Orlando got better with their offseason moves. Ryan Anderson, Vince carter, and Brandon Bass. Are you kidding me and we didn’t even mention “white Choc”.
Turkalu who. give me a break
Fact is, we’re not as good as they are.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
10:06 pm
I think this is the worst preseason beatdown in NBA history I think.
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
10:06 pm
Didnt Jeff Teague get the message? You are 0-10. Maybe you should run some plays, set some people up. After all, you’re still the PG
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:07 pm
its never a good night when both your assist are to Sir Randolpholous Morris
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 pm
LOL! This game should have the whole team/coaches having nightmares tonight. It funny and at the same time irritating as hell.
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 pm
HAWKDAFIED,
indy beat the spurs!! danny granger is back and healthy. and pschologically this game will be in the hawks head on wed., plus indy will be in their head. gonna be hard to beat ‘em.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 pm
For the life of me, I would like to hear (or better yet see) Woody explain his offensive philosophy. Forget NBA Live, I want to see him draw it up on the white board. It pains my eyes to watch one guy pound the ball and the other four guys stand around waiting to run back on defense only to allow their opponents to drive right to the basket uncontested…
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 pm
I think Jeff Teague will be fine. He may be 0-10 and having a horrible game tonight, but the kid has some talent and will get better.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
10:09 pm
What plays can Teague run???? Mike Woodson doesn’t know any plays.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:12 pm
that was good D from Morris… he had forced Gortat off the block.. good contest…
Bass looks like a damn defensive end…
Hunter active on the glass…
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:13 pm
I no its preason but the magic look like a beast may be the best team in the nba time will tell.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
10:14 pm
and has anyone noticed they did not even play lewis imagine when he’s back guys they got 2 got centers 3 good pf and hustle play sf thats a great front court
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:14 pm
what do you say to your team the very next practice? what do you say to the team after a loss like this? do you say bye when you are leavin’ the dressin’ room or does everyone jus’ walk out?
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:14 pm
Down 42pts, my goodness. Call off the Dogs….
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
10:15 pm
Was wishing for Crawford assists. At least the bench is getting burn now.
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:15 pm
Man i wish we had a superstar.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
10:16 pm
Magic have mercy. I beg u
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:16 pm
okay ant banks you may have a point there anyway after tonight I just don’t know about the team this season. hey they owe us fans a win on opening night after this horror fest. tonight’s game was a trick but Wednesday game is gonna be our treat. Happy Halloween to us Hawks fans! I’m scared! Shaking in my knees.
Me too Melvin, I mean we’re subjected to seeing him scribbling something on his board during player intros. I’d like to see what he’s scribbling show up on the court.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
10:17 pm
Have heard so much bad stuff about Morris – only bright spot.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:18 pm
in all honesty Morris should get more minutes…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
10:18 pm
42 down – time for a run lol
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:18 pm
speedy, law, salim are all laffin’ their arses off. lol
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:19 pm
Mz.Hawkdafied,
I believe thats the problem. What he’s drawning on his UPS board aint worth crap. I guess thats what brown can do for him…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:19 pm
keep pulling Randolph!!!
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
10:20 pm
Forget NBA Live, I want to see him draw it up on the white board. It pains my eyes to watch one guy pound the ball and the other four guys stand around waiting to run back on defense only to allow their opponents to drive right to the basket uncontested
Exactly. It’s the same thing no matter who has the ball on the perimeter – one guys holds it, everyone else stands still. Guy with ball either drives and get trapped or takes an off-balance shot off the dribble. Occasionally someone runs a pick and roll, but for the most part, that’s all the variety there is.
Off-ball movement? What’s that? I’ve seen two off-ball screens tonight – one by RandMo and one by Othello. Wtf?
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
10:21 pm
im sorry guys but teage sucks no ways is he a starter hes trash hes too small and he gets blocked so much i remember when you guys said he was going to be a star… no he is a bench warmer
Samuel
October 23rd, 2009
10:22 pm
Only a person with absolutely no basketball knowledge whatsoever would question getting:VC,Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass and matt Barnes and give up Turkalu and Courtney lee. You guys need to get a clue. And guess what, so did the other half of the “Big 3″.
Guys this will be an exciting season but as you can see tonight, we’re not in the class of the Big 3.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
10:22 pm
I’ll say this, I’m optimistic about Teague and Crawford after tonight because they both attack the basket. That will eventually prove to be strong asset for the Hawks this year. Everyone else tonight seemed content on shooting jumpers.
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
10:23 pm
bibby played terrible, al cant handle howard vince matched up pretty well with joe but joe held his own williams sucks he got outplayed by both anderson and bass gortat is solid nelson is back their bench is deep and they look very scary
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:24 pm
PRESS CONFERENCE; Mike Woodson: “We just didn’t get after it tonight. The guys weren’t hungry. Orlando wanted it more than we did.”
JJ; “We just didn’t get after it tonight. The guys weren’t hungry. Orlando wanted it more than we did.”
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:25 pm
other than Orlando playing perfect… what did we do that we didnt do tonight to get our other pre-season wins?
who’s the Magic trainer there whole team is brolic…
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
10:25 pm
LMAP @ ant banks quotes
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:26 pm
SAMUEL,
that’s a great observation, hindsight. of course you are sayin’ that now, but a month ago, that was a good debatable topic
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
10:26 pm
My untrained eyes are seeing the same thing from Teague/Crawford that we see from Bibby/JJ.
Teague brings the ball up court, and then gives it up to Crawford. Bibby brings the ball up, and then gives it to JJ. Maybe thats Woody’s system. Give it to your SG, and everybody stand around and wait for them to make a play.
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:27 pm
TEAGUE NEEDS TO CHANGE HIS NUMBER “0″ HE IS 0-13
ant banks
October 23rd, 2009
10:28 pm
WHEW!! atleast we didn’t get beat by 40 pts. THANK GOD!!
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
10:29 pm
so much optimism… so much anticipation for a new season. how we were going to incorporate our new back court talent. the growth of our front court. all lost in 1 pre season blow out… same ole’ same ole’…
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:32 pm
Man im glad rod from college park didnt watch the game tonight he would have had and heart attack watching marvin fall every time he went 2 the hole.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
10:34 pm
Ok guys. I’m just as frustrated as everyone else. But one way to look at this is its just the preseason.
The Lions went undefeated in the preseason last year, then they went 0-16 in the regular season. The Colts went winless one preseason, and went on to win the SuperBowl that year.
Hopefully, Woody and the players will learn from this, and realize they need to play better defense. And they need better execution of the offense (whatever that might be).
I still think the Hawks can win 50 games.
JSS
October 23rd, 2009
10:35 pm
I see the Hawks still have no clue about shutting down Vince Carter, D-Howard’s low block presence just magnifies the point… Joe did what he could, but it is the “double devil.” Vince swoosh. Anderson swoosh and Bass BANG!!! Woodson has time before the next meeting, got to try something different… J-Smoove has to recognize, he’s got to stay on the floor…
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:35 pm
Marvin 5th year in the nba and he still look clumsy.
GO HAWKS!!!!!
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:36 pm
This game is a perfect example of why you need more than defense to win games. The Hawks are not going to be able the lock this team down on defense for 4 qtrs. Their best chance of beating this team is to become more efficient on offense.
Orlando lost 3/5 of their starters from last year and their chemistry on offense still looks better than the Hawks who return all 5 of their starters….
Big Ray
October 23rd, 2009
10:39 pm
Well, you could say notice was served. To us that is. A few observations:
1)Somebody forgot to guard Vince Carter.
2)Somebody also forgot to guard Ryan Anderson.
3)Jeff Teague, thanks for not turning the ball over. Call Vanna White. I think she’s all out of vowels, but you can probably buy a bucket or two.
4)Crawford looks good tonight. The guy who plays in front of him? Not so much.
5)Josh still can’t hit a free throw. And he’s looking more foul prone than he usually is.
6) Brandon Bass is doing EXACTLY what I was worried he would do .
7) Is that Randolph Morris with 11 points and 5 boards? Huh! Too bad it’s not the regular season or we could count it as a career high…
8)I’m waiting for somebody to discount this game as “ehhh..it’s only the preseason” the same way the wins have been discounted…
Samuel
October 23rd, 2009
10:40 pm
ant b,
You better go back and check my post. I had two or three scrubbs on this site arguing with me about this move. I said from day one that this was a no brainer. Ray Charles, Stevie wonder, Jose Valenciano and Roy Orbison could see that. I can go back and copy and paste if you’d like.
I also have been saying this entire offseason that while the Hawks may have gotten better, the “Big 3″ still widened the gap. That’s just the way it is i’m afraid.
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
10:41 pm
Commentators said that the magic is hungry for and championship this year you can see in there eyes what about the hawks mrs.hubbie brown.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Samuel
October 23rd, 2009
10:44 pm
JSS,
There’s nothing you can draw up on any white board that can stop that kind of talent. Howard is just too big and too quick for anything we got. They also added Anderson and VC to eliminate the double down. What the hel_ can you draw up to stop that.
Nothing!!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:46 pm
LOL @Big Ray “8)I’m waiting for somebody to discount this game as “ehhh..it’s only the preseason” the same way the wins have been discounted…”
The Hawks don’t want it darrell starks cause if they did we wouldn’t have had to stomach tonight’s game. It’s one of your division rivals play like it and stop wasting time and energy. Preseason or not you just made yourselves and fans look like azzes for believing in you.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
10:48 pm
Melvin,
Agreed. That’s a great point. I just wonder what they can do overall to improve the offensive efficiency. Crawford and Teague will help some because they attack the basket, but overall, the offense is centered around perimeter players who rely heavily on jumpshots.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 23rd, 2009
10:50 pm
Samuel, Dwight is not really superman and has no superhuman powers so there is an answer out there someone. Remember the Lakers! How about putting a hand in VC and Anderson’s face so they don’t get a clear look at the basket and stop leaving them wide open. Dang! There is always an answer. Try anything and everything until you come up with an answer. The problem is the Hawks are still doing the same ole same ole and not trying something else. I
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:55 pm
Sam,
I will double Howard in the post and let the other guys beat me. I would prefer them to me by the jumpshot vs dunks/layups…
Jody,
Short answer, scrap the whole offensive plan. We need more ball and player movement for starters…
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
10:58 pm
ESPN just show tape of Kobe working out the Olajuwon this summer. Hmmm, wasnt some folks giving Josh a hardtime for seeking help from the Dream.
doc
October 23rd, 2009
10:58 pm
quite a statement game. yuck. didt see it so little more to say but their top 7 blew our doors off and made me think of early last year when they did the same thing to us during the eregular season.
Jody
October 23rd, 2009
10:58 pm
I really don’t think there was much the Hawks could do to compete tonight. What the Magic did was simple. Attack the Hawks in the paint first and when the Hawks collapse, kick the ball to the shooters. Even when the Hawks did collapse, the Magic still got layups. On defense, they simply encouraged the Hawks to shoot contested jump shots (low percentage) and the Hawks gladly obliged.
J.J.M.
October 23rd, 2009
10:59 pm
what i learned about the hawks…Have no idea why coach woodson still has all the 6″9 plus players standing around the 3 point line, nobody steps up when joe is double teamed, why the hawks suck on the road but are good at home, and why we shoot… jump shots 80 percent of the game and post up 20 percent of the time.Read More
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
11:03 pm
Its obvious that the hawks are not ready for the big boys as you can see,they got exposed bad.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
October 23rd, 2009
11:10 pm
Samuel ,
There is a thing called competing. Are you saying that the Hawks players are so sorry, or that the Magic players are so awesome, that we can’t compete with them? Losing by 5, 10, maybe a few more points is one thing. Losing by 30+ is something else entirely. I refuse to believe that they are THAT much better than us.
Also, what is the explanation for us not getting a damn thing done on offense? Stopping those guys is one thing, but is Orlando so good defensively (think about their personnel very carefully) that we just can’t score against them?
darrell starks
October 23rd, 2009
11:11 pm
I wonder who work hard in the off season for the hawks beside josh smith, as they show players like kobe who is top 3 player in the league and won a championship, still in the off season still working on his game to get better.
GO HAWKS!!!!!
The Truth
October 23rd, 2009
11:17 pm
I warned you guys about nick-naming Teague JT_0
As Big Ray would say, I know it’s just pre-season BUT:
Does anyone miss Flip Murray yet?
Trust me; losing this game in this fashion is a blessing:
It takes the air out of the inflated egos including Sund
Maybe now the Hawks get off the high-horse and get serious about the next level
Maybe now Crawford starts playing to his strength and not be something that he’s not
Maybe now Josh gets serious about his free-throws
Maybe now Teague reevaluate his weaknesses
Maybe now Sund will reconsider signing Stackhouse
Maybe now the team forgets about the pundits ranking and just play fundamental basketball
One last question: Where is the backbone of this team?
Answer: It got punk tonight and didn’t show up
THE POSITIVE THING WE GET OUT OF THIS GAME IS THAT IT’S JUST PRESEASON
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
11:19 pm
big ray orlando is a under rated denfensive team, they shut us down the are better offensively, defensively, bench and better coaching staff…. period end of story their a better team than us
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
11:21 pm
One thing I wanted to see from the Hawks was some hard fouls. We are still giving up too many layups.
And we are still struggling with our 3 pt defense.
doublet23
October 23rd, 2009
11:22 pm
no need for hard fouls is the pre season
cp
October 23rd, 2009
11:36 pm
We lost only 2 pre season games and now its the end of the world if you read some of these post smh and lol.
Big Ray
October 23rd, 2009
11:44 pm
For the last time:
Any idiot can see that Orlando is better than us. But they are NOT, I repeat NOT 37 points better than us .
So glad to see so many Hawks fans just giving up….ugh…
Big Ray
October 23rd, 2009
11:45 pm
CP ,
Tell me about it….let’s just give up now. I want to see more fight and more competitiveness, but geez…
Ken Strickland
October 24th, 2009
12:25 am
Did anyone else notice how Orlando’s OFF contantly had players cutting to the basket, which kept us from doubling the post? Our unbelievably limited OFF is designed to function above the FT line by setting picks to get certain people open for jumpshots. Even when we infrequently posted up, instead of sending cutters to the basket, we sent everyone to the 3pt line to wait for a passout. Stopping our one dimensional jumpshooting OFF has certainly posed no challenges for the rest of the NBA.
Our switching DEF constantly caused our PG’s to end up in mismatches with PF’s and C’s, and that’s just plain stupid. They kicked our butts using the same strategy they successfully used against Cleveland in the playoffs, along with the strategy Cleveland successfully used against us. Exactly what kind of OFF did we employ? We certainly didn’t try to run against them and what we did do resembled more playground than any organized professional halfcourt OFF. THAT BEATDOWN WAS EMBARRASSING!!!!!
JSS
October 24th, 2009
12:31 am
“Samuel, that is why it is called “The Double Devil!” Damned if you double the post, damned if you double (trap) the ball… And Ray is right, you don’t stop it, but he is not Kobe or MJ, work harder and rotate, contest, and rebound!!! Said in a nice, I always enjoy your post…
JSS
October 24th, 2009
1:07 am
“Said in a nice way” that is…
Sautee
October 24th, 2009
8:27 pm
So now is Teague JT_0-13?
ant banks made me do it!