Cut Day!
The Mario West era came to an abrupt end before practice Wednesday. He was one of three players the Hawks cut to trim the roster to 13 players.
HAWKSVILLE – A group that numbered 20 just a few weeks ago is now down to just 13.
It was cut day at the Hawks’ practice facility Wednesday, and the scene was grim.
Mario West and Courtney Sims got the word that their time was up before practice, so there was already a feeling that something (or more accurately someone) was missing.
But the gut-punch came later when rookie center Garret “Big Glacier” Siler got his pink slip afterwards.
As his teammates filed into the locker room each one glanced at the big fella with one eyebrow raised. He returned fire with a hollow look in his eyes and the peace sign. Even though they all knew this was not only a possibility but most likely a probability, it didn’t make the event any easier to swallow. Othello Hunter is the only free agent camper that remains from the army of eight that showed up with designs on landing one of the (three) open roster spots available.
Second-year forward Othello Hunter is the last man standing. No one should be surprised. He made the team the same way last year. And he’s gotten loads better since then. So he his inclusion was well earned (the Hawks’ roster stands at 13 players heading into the final two preseason games before next week’s regular season opener against Indiana).
Hawks coach Mike Woodson was worn out after having to speak to all three players. He was the one that championed West’s cause two years ago, when the energetic but undrafted rookie from Georgia Tech put on a hustle showcase in training camp to make the team.
“People probably thought I was crazy and didn’t know what I was doing,” Woodson said. “But I wasn’t crazy. This kid is probably the hardest working kid I’ve ever coached as far as coming early, staying late and making every single second of practice competitive. And when we put him in the game, he did some good things for us. And over the time he was here he got better. So this is tough, really tough. Anytime you cut a kid it’s a tough day. But for me, it’s tougher than you can ever imagine because I became so attached to him and his work ethic. That’s what you try and teach young guys. That’s the first part of being a player in this league.”
It wasn’t easy for the regulars to watch guys like West, Sims and Siler leave, either. After all, relationships were formed. Friendships were cultivated. Good times were had by all.
“It’s tough because I’ve been in their shoes before,” Zaza Pachulia said. “So this hurts me in so many ways. You get used to having guys around, especially when they are guys with great personalities like the guys we had here. They brought so much positive energy to this team. They were unselfish. And they listen to you and they’re trying to get better. It would be different if they weren’t such great guys.”
The 13th man on a 12-man team as a young teenager, Pachulia talked about the feelings he had on cut day years ago for the junior national team in his native Georgia. “I had all my bags packed thinking I was making the team and all my friends back home thought I’d made it, too,” he said. “I was only 14 at the time, but it felt like I was already in the big time.”
He was crushed when he learned that he was the odd man out.
“It was such an exciting time for me just being their in the training camp,” Pachulia said. “I thought I was going to Italy. And then when they told me … I will never forget that day. I used that as motivation to get better and work even harder. And that’s how these guys have to take this, as motivation. It has to give them energy and make them want to fight more to make it. And they’re good guys, so you know good things will happen for them. Hard work always pays off at some point. You just have to stay positive.”
Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has NBA experience, so finding another job won’t be hard. West has two years of NBA experience under his belt and could chase his fortunes with another NBA team or explore his options overseas. Siler’s a behemoth with plenty of ceiling. Pro basketball is obviously his future.
However, he was still trying to get over the initial shock of the news when I saw him last. He said he has just spoken to his agent and that he would figure out a plan for his next step.
It wouldn’t surprise me if any of these guys showed up on the Hawks’ radar again, maybe even this season.
“Hopefully,” Siler said with a half smile. “I guess we’ll see what happens down the road.”
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481 comments Add your comment
ILL-logical
October 23rd, 2009
1:56 pm
He is definitely not suited to be an effective SF since his shot is suspect (to say the least) hence,
The PERCEPTION of a players ability to shoot has little if anything to do with the players value to the team and the team’s success. I have cited several players such as Andrian Dantly who had a long and extremely sucessful career as a small forward who did not posses an accurate outside shot.
The key is the system employed by the coach. Detroit for example, used Tayshun Prince as a defensive stopper at the small forward position and had a great deal of success. My point is that many participants on this board conflate their opinion into fact even when there is abundant evidence to the contrary.
BTW, if Josh did play the small forward postion-not likely under the Woodson regime for some fairly painful reasons- he would be able to physically overpower 90% of the other small forwards not named LeBron , Artest or Carmelo. But the truth is that There is no confidence on the part of Woodson or Mr. Sund that Al can be effective at the power forward position and Marvin who is at least 15 lbs heavier and has a greater wingspan is not even a consideration? So, while we all can opine about who should be where and do what to our heart’s desire, there are some cold ,hard facts to consider as well.
O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
2:06 pm
I know that Woody wanted to beat Miami last night, but I disagree in playing JJ 34 minutes only because of our 2nd game in as many nights. And I would love for us to beat Orlando. Let’s hope Woody does a good job of keeping JJ fresh for the 4th quarter tonight.
doc
October 23rd, 2009
2:29 pm
funny our favorite whipping posts have been put into action … woody and josh. wasnt there a discussion about how much our fan base has grown and matured, maybe even began to have some insight. the same folks may be the ones wondering why the national mdeia cant change hw it sees the hawks.
tooo friggin funny.
friggin cant even let the season start before the come back to their pet peeves.
btw did anyone see that d wade played about 30 minutes last night?
jerrywest
October 23rd, 2009
2:32 pm
Zaza/Collins playing tonight?
Collins didn’t travel to the game last night.
Tonight’s game will be treated like a regular season game. It’s a statement game. It’s a national TV game. It’s against an elite division rival that’s suppose to be far superior to us. When was the last time we were on national TV during the pre-seaon? Never. It’s a big game. It may not count in the table, but it will have great psychological implications if the losing team has 100% of its rotation available.
jerrywest
October 23rd, 2009
2:35 pm
I wish we unleashed Siler on Howard tonight and then waive him tomorrow. It would have been a site to see. Good or bad.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
3:50 pm
DOC-I certainly appreciated his overall talent and value to the team. I only wish we could find a way to bring him back. It would take at least 3 gifted players to approximate his overall worth. But I’m with you, the way Sund misjudged his value and mishandled his situation, he won’t consider coming back here.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
3:59 pm
Not for nothing, but Flip and Mo are just two guys, and they did pretty darned well for us while taking way less money combined than we offered Chills, and other NBA teams weren’t exactly moving mountains to get Chill this summer. Just sayin.
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right
October 23rd, 2009
4:01 pm
After an offseason that saw the Hawks keep their three best free agents (Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia), strengthen their bench (Jamal Crawford, Joe Smith, Jason Collins), eliminate both a punchline (Limpy Claxton) and a draft mistake (Acie Law), and draft a promising guard (Jeff Teague), optimism surrounding the franchise seems near an all-time high.
So here’s my question: Is everybody else seeing something we’re not?
The Hawks won one playoff round last season. How many will they win in 2009-10?
By now, you’ve might’ve heard that several national media outlets have projected the Hawks this season to finish on par or even below last season’s results. Actually, I have yet to find one that has them either: 1) winning more games, or, 2) winning more than one playoff round.
This hit home a little harder Thursday night. I received an email from Bodog.com, an online sportsbook, which does a pretty good job accurately reflecting the feelings in Las Vegas (and I’m still waiting for at least one hotel-casino magnate there to say: “You know. We really blew it with those odds. I think I’m just going to build a nice little Best Western with a coffee shop over here.”).
According to some of Bodog’s prop bets, the over/under on the Hawks’ win total is 44.5, which is a step back from last season’s 47.
The “dis” factor doesn’t end there. Some examples:
♦ First coach to be fired: The Hawks’ Mike Woodson is 3-1. That ties him with Chicago’s Vinny Del Negro as the No. 2 favorite — barely behind the leader, Lawrence Frank (9-5). Not sure how that affects contract extension talks.
♦ Southeast Division: Hawks are 15-2 to win the division, which is third behind Orlando (1-4) and Miami (13-2), whom the Hawks beat in the playoffs last season, and they’re barely ahead of fourth-rated Washington (10-1). Looking for a longshot? Charlotte is 55-1.
♦ Eastern Conference: Hawks are 20-1 to win the conference title, which is tied with Chicago, Detroit and Miami for a DISTANT fourth behind Cleveland (5-4), Boston (2-1) and Orlando (3-1).
♦ NBA title: Hawks are 45-1 to win it, which ranks tied for 11th. (Lakers are favorites at 2-1.)
A few other observations follow.
♦The Sporting News has been previewing each team, one per day, backwards from No. 30. The Hawks check in at No. 12 overall and will rank only sixth in the East, behind — in uncertain order as of today — Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, Washington and, yikes, even Toronto.
♦ ESPN had a panel of 10 each predict standings. Most have the Hawks fourth in the East. Once exception is Chris Sheridan, who tabbed them for seventh. His analysis: “Mike Bibby didn’t look like he had a lot left in the tank last season. I was surprised they re-signed him and thought Andre Miller would have been a better fit. Joe Johnson is entering a contract year. And newcomer Jamal Crawford likes to put up 20 shots a night. Hmmm.”
♦ Sports Illustrated picks the Hawks to finish fifth in the East. An excerpt from an unnamed scout: “I like their signings of Joe Smith and Jason Collins because they needed
size off the bench. Those are moves a contender would make, and moves the Hawks didn’t make in the past.
♦ ♦ ♦
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right
October 23rd, 2009
4:03 pm
Jermaine Oneal is better than Horford
kwooden1
October 23rd, 2009
4:05 pm
Has anyone talked about the fact that Joe Smith was +23 in last nights game! I don’t think to much about this stat, but it definitely says something about the impact Joe Smith had on the game. Hopefully Josh Smith will get his free throws together for tonights game. I think Josh just has to relax more once he’s misses few at the line. I think he will work his way through this fine.
GO HAWKS!
Who let the dog out!!!
October 23rd, 2009
4:10 pm
what kindof metal is nire – Bullzeye on the why cant to Woody haters get along. Tell me. How much wood could a Woody hater chuck if a Woody hater could chuck Wood?
Weigh Dezz Nuttz
October 23rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Ken Strickland that was no stalemate. He got that AISSZE. RIPPED YOU A NEW ONE!
The Truth
October 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
INTERESTING
This sports-writer sounds like he has been ease-dropping on this blog. So much of his context is very similar to our discussions about Marvin.
Sund comments:
“He’s a great team player, but at some point in time you’d like him to take over games, and I’ve talked to him about that,” said Rick Sund, the Hawks’ general manager.”
My question to Sund: When are you going to have that same discussion with Josh? He’s the one that is actually getting paid to play this role. Marvin is really paid to be a role player not a superstar.
kwooden1
October 23rd, 2009
4:22 pm
Hats off to Schultz on getting it right – Bill Simmons (ESPN) predicted the HAWKS wouldn’t make the playoffs last year! Obviously they can be wrong! We’re fans here, so we definitely see things that others don’t!!
GO HAWKS!!!
what kindof metal is nire - why cant two woody haters get along?
October 23rd, 2009
4:24 pm
HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODY HATER CHUCK IF A WOODY HATER COULD CHUCK WOODY HATER COULD CHUCK WOOD. – AN AUTOGRAPHED PICTURE OF KEN POSING WITH HIS PINOCCHIO TROPHY TO THE FIRST MAN(OR WOMAN) WHO CAN SAY THIS THREE TIMES REAL FAST.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
4:41 pm
Since tonights preseason gm is our last, we’ll get to see Woodson’s rotation, as well as an idea of how he’ll utilize each player. I’m anxious to see how we’ll play DHoward. I also want to see how we’ll use Joe Smith.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
4:44 pm
Chills game is perfectly suited for “Euro ball”. Looks a lot more impressive than it actually is.
I guess he sees(saw) most of these international players signed to these outrageous contracts, only turning out to be role players at best, so he wanted one of those type contracts.
Sorry it didn’t work out like that for Chills. Like every other player so far, with the Hawks, he was offered a very fair contract by Sund.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
5:05 pm
Chills is a plug and play player at multiple positions. His also young with upside. gwite – what was Chills offered by Sund. It was not 6 millon or I am sure he would have stayed.
wordsmithtom
October 23rd, 2009
5:19 pm
Marvin Williams is a team guy. He’s also a stud with experience and youth. Chris Weber was Marvin’s age when he played his first NBA game. I’d like to see Marvin run a few 2n’d team plays with Teague and Crawford. Both can pass. Teague penetrating and dishing to Marvin down low or out to Crawford. West coast ball. Run and gun; pound em pound em.
This team is a LOT stronger than last year. Make no mistake about it.
Being able to intermix some of the first team with second team players to better match up with whichever team they’re playing is a real asset. The addition of Smith and Crawford +Teague with subtraction of only one guy makes this team deep and dangerous.
Whipped Miami handily last night in Fla.
fudd21
October 23rd, 2009
5:21 pm
KevinA, you’re right it wasn’t 6 million….it was 7 million.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
5:23 pm
KevinA, at the time, I think the qualifying offer was(or would have been) for close to 5M. Sund’s m.o. so far is to go with about that, and let the market take it from there.
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:00 pm
GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEE THIS TWO VIDEOS.
1. CNN: Lou Dobbs or Latinos in America
2. Dobbs History of hate and paranoia
DROP THE HATE LOU DOBBS!
doc
October 23rd, 2009
6:07 pm
nire, that wasnt a plug for chills only to call what is and times have changed nor was it to start a discussion. crawford is ours now instead of chills, essentially, when you check the economics of it. instead of chills and maybe another 3 to 4 mil guy to make up the difference we have crawford. would two have been better than one? maybe if it was for a bass instead. still dont think chills got the respect nor credit for what he did to help get the team as far as they got two years ago. dont suggest he is a savior. do think we would have been more competitive with chills when marvin went down and we had so many dragging in the series with cleveland. still dont think it would have changed the outcome though we might have made 50 wins with him. maybe not as flip did some very important things chills couldnt. “flip on roids”crawford has the potential to do just that, be a savior.
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:21 pm
DOBBS’ HISTORY OF HATE
Over the years, Dobbs has consistently used his CNN platform to spread hatred and fear. He played a critical role in the right’s successful effort to derail immigration reform in 2006, and his obsession with the issue of immigration and with defeating immigration reform continues unabated. Adding to his repertoire of hate and fear-mongering, he has recently promoted the racially-tinged charge of the “birther” conspiracists who seek to attack the legitimacy of Obama’s presidency.
It is time to demand accountability from advertisers who, by their purchase of airtime on his show, actively support his hate speech. When advertisers sponsor Lou Dobbs, this is what they are paying for:
Dobbs advanced racially charged conspiracy theories about Obama’s birth certificate.
Dobbs has close ties to “hate group” FAIR.
Dobbs said Sotomayor nomination was “absolute pandering to the Hispanics.”
Dobbs declared that “Mexico has become our enemy.”
Dobbs smeared U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce as “interested in the export of American capital and production to Mexico, and Mexico’s export of drugs and illegal aliens.”
Dobbs fear-mongered about Mexican “reconquista” plot.
Dobbs aired hate group graphic to illustrate “the Vicente Fox Aztlan tour.”
Dobbs spread leprosy falsehood in claiming “invasion of illegal aliens” is threatening Americans’ “health.”
Dobbs asked if Obama is “pandering to ethnocentric special interests again” by accepting Gov. Bill Richardson’s endorsement.
Dobbs praised Philadelphia English-only sign ruling as “a defeat for ethnocentric special interests.”
drop the HATE Lou Dobbs
October 23rd, 2009
6:23 pm
Dobbs has consistently used his national platform to spread misinformation, including racially charged, fringe conspiracy theories about immigrants and President Obama’s birth certificate.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
6:30 pm
HATS OFF-as reliable as you might feel some of these guys are, how many of them predicted or gave odds on the Hawks winning 47gms, grabbing the 4th seed in the East and advancing to the 2nd rd of the playoffs last yr? The same unreliable guessing they employed last yr has been employed this yr. If I’m not mistaken, these same prognosticators and odds makers had Cleveland heavily favored to defeat Orlando in last yrs playoffs as well. It’s up to the players and coaches to determine what a team does and where they finish during the season, not a bunch of self proclaimed experts and arm chair prognosticators.
When it comes to teams like the Hawks, who have a history of inconsistency and/or losing, a rather dismissive attitude is usually employed by these people/groups when making their assessment. Hopefully, players and coaches around the league will embrace that same mentality and allow the Hawks to sneak past them like we did last season.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
6:42 pm
Chills’s QO and cap hold are a near-irrelevancy next summer because we are going to bell over the cap anyway thanks to the massive cap hold for JJ, and even renounce our Bird rights in JJ, our cap space will be right around the mid-level after the mandatory cap holds get factored in. Under those circumstances, we wouldn’t really gain anything by renouncing Chills anyway, because all we really will be working with is the mid-level (which we would have even if we made a QO to Chills) plus a few hundred thou – which frankly won’t be enough to get anyone significantly better than Chill. (For the same reason, renouncing JJ makes no sense, but that’s a different story). We’d be crazy not to give Chill a QO and force teams to go through us if they are interested in signing him.
On a related note, Chill’s game is actually NOT good for the Euroleague. Wings in Europe are expected to shoot, pass, and shoot some more. Chill is most effective getting offensive rebounds, getting points off broken plays, and driving to the basket. He is actually at his least effective shooting from the perimeter. And frankly, the Euro game does not place a premium on good perimeter D, which is Chill’s greatest strength of all. That being said, playing in Europe might force him to become a better shooter, which will help his game if he ever returns to the NBA.
Ken Strickland
October 23rd, 2009
6:43 pm
How many besides me think resigning JJ could hinge on how well Crawford plays this yr. While we were drubbing the Wizards, Crawford displayed his excellent passing skills, and Woodson, in particular, took notice. Passing is one of JJ’s strong suits, and if Crawford can show that same ability, we might end up limiting our efforts to resign JJ. He’s already demonstrated a scoring ability that’s on par with JJ. While Crawford hasn’t shown he’s as consistent as JJ as a shooter, he has demonstrated he’s a better penetrator. At any rate, it’ll be interesting to watch as it unfolds.
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
6:57 pm
While Crawford hasn’t shown he’s as consistent as JJ as a shooter, he has demonstrated he’s a better penetrator.
I had to go check 82games to be sure on this one, but my gut was right – JJ takes a higher percentage of his shots in the paint than does Crawford and makes a higher percentage of the ones he does take. So I’d say that one is a tough sell.
Yup Melvin, just used stats. Not any of the 5 “traditional” stats though
niremetal
October 23rd, 2009
7:01 pm
Of course, that might change given what Crawford’s role on the Hawks will be…
Here are JJ’s and Crawford’s stats for comparison.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
7:45 pm
nire – what was the offer to Chills – I never read it. I just assumed it was a floating number that was never published. I also have never read a statement by Chills that his decision to go overseas had anything to do with not starting. Did I miss the facts or just Chill’s decision for what he thought was a better opportunity.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
7:52 pm
Chills aside we are a few minutes away from a big game. Like it or not – unless one team gets a big lead this game will be decided by the starters. Minutes be darned. National TV. You know what? Lets go get this win. I hope Crawford and JJ continue their assist assault.
Did Daniel win the tickets?
rms
October 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm
You would think the only relevant teams in the NBA are just the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, And Celtics if you watch ESPN. Those guys worship Kobe and Lebron. I understand it being a star studded league but dang what about Roy and the Blazers, Bosh and the Rapters, Duncan and the Spurs,or dare I say Johnson and the HAWKS!!! I say come up with another network that goes up against ESPN and dont slob the knob of just certain players but all the players for the teams good or bad.
gwite
October 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm
“Sund Discusses Childress Decision”
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9576
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:07 pm
Hubie:
“face it, this team has enough talent its 10 deep”
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:10 pm
gwite,
Thanks for the link. I find it much harder to understand Chill’s decision. The difference between 5.7 and 6 million per year seems crazy. I had thought his offer was much smaller.
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:10 pm
Howard fouls Al – push it kid
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:11 pm
early looks for Horford… miss jumper, bobbled pass, quick move draw foul on Howard…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:15 pm
hmm…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:15 pm
crap – such a bad pass. Good time out.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm
This is my first time actually seeing the Hawks play since I was in Philips for Game 4 of the Hawks-Cavs series in May, and to be honest, I see no difference. They are running the same plodding, perimeter-oriented offense, Josh Smith is still spending too much time on the perimeter, Joe Johnson is still pounding the ball too much, and they are not going to the post often enough.
I realize some teams don’t show everything in their offensive arsenal in the preseason, and maybe that’s the case here, but if Mr. Potato-Head is really committed to speeding up the tempo like he said in an interview this summer, he sure ain’t showing it.
I’m not changing my 50-win expectation — this team is much deeper than last year and that alone should account for an increase in wins. But I’d like to see the offense open up like we’ve all been hoping ever since Woody was hired, and so far I’m not seeing any of that.
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm
Ugly start for the Hawks. Offense look stagnant and we are still switching on pick n roll on defense. I thought they were suppose to get rid of the switching on def this year…
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm
same here Najeh and agreed….
im actually anticipating Crawford and Teague with combinations of this group… still standing around watching.. waiting for someone to shoot… can’t believe it…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:22 pm
Take Bibby out, Time for Crawford or JT.
bigdave
October 23rd, 2009
8:23 pm
this is the lineup i wanted to see… Teague, Crawford, Johnson…
Horford has to step up his awareness on the offensive end…
KevinA
October 23rd, 2009
8:23 pm
Mercy
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:24 pm
Damn… I am glad this game doesn’t count.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 23rd, 2009
8:26 pm
“this is the lineup i wanted to see… Teague, Crawford, Johnson…”
Yeah, but when they go with that lineup they have to run. There’s no way they can play at the same plodding pace with that lineup.
BONE
October 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
I guess I’m gonna start the FIRE MIKE WOODSON bandwagon this year everybody jump on
Melvin
October 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
Look at how the Hawks are playing tonight. And we wonder why we are not on National TV or why the critics dont give us any love.