What’s in your profile?
There's no identity crisis for Hawks swingman Marvin Williams. He knows exactly who he is. But what do other think of the starting small forward? Find out inside.
HAWKSVILLE – The questions rolled off the tongue much easier than the answer.
I asked Marvin Williams the other day, “Who are you as a player, what’s your profile around the league?”
After rubbing his head for a second and smiling, Williams looked me dead in the eye and said, “I don’t worry about stuff like that. You’d have to ask someone else about that.”
Good idea Marv.
A quick phone call to a friend (a NBA All-Star turned pundit these days) offered up an interesting answer.
“Marvin Williams is their x-factor,” he said. “He’s the key to their season if you ask me. I think Marvin has to be the guy because he’s a 6-9, 240-pound guy that plays what I think is the most crucial position in the league these days. Whatever position the best player in the league plays, every guy on every other team that plays that spot becomes even more important. When MJ (Michael Jordan for you Y2K babies) ruled the league every shooting guard in the league instantly became more important. The same goes for all the small forwards now that LeBron is the man. So if Marvin can get to another level this year, the Hawks really have a chance to make some noise.”
That’s fine. And it’s a great discussion for another day. But it didn’t answer my initial question about Marvin’s game, which to me seems like an interesting mix of inside and out (more mid-range than post with a little 3-point wrinkle added last season) with a chance for so much more. So I pressed on, asking again for a definitive statement about what kind of player Marvin is in the eyes of a guy that’s played the game at a high level.
“Well, his game is hard to describe because I don’t know that he’s that easily categorized. The Hawks have never really asked him to fit into a specific hole as a shooter or rebounder or whatever,” my friend said. “I always felt like he had a chance to be a Jamal Mashburn-type player, a big guy that could work you off the dribble from the wing and finish with a jumper or push his man closer to the basket and finish there. But his handles have never impressed me. He was more of a situational shooter before last season, and those guys tend to drift in and out of games depending on who they’re playing with. But he opened my eyes last season with the 3-point shooting. I saw him early in the year when the Hawks started 6-0 and he was shooting the lights out and I felt like he had a chance to really break out, but he gradually eased up from out there as the season went on. He has to keep attacking from all over the floor offensively and hold his ground defensively. As far as who he is as a player, I think the jury is still out on him. And that’s a good thing. He’s still in the early stages of his career where he can define that for himself. This is a huge year for him individually. He can answer a lot of questions by showing he’s more of a consistent force than he’s been in his first few years.”
Most everyone I’ve spoken to about Williams since the summer, when he signed a new five-year deal with the Hawks, has echoed similar sentiments, the gist being that Williams still has room to grow and improve. I just wonder if how much of that we’ll get to see on a team where he’ll remain a third or fourth option on the offensive end of the floor.
KG IS WELCOME, TOO
Now that Zaza Pachulia is in the restaurant business, I expect the culinary jokes to become commonplace around here (fire away, Zaza’s thick skinned and a good sport).
Naturally, I kicked off the clowning last week while we sat in his spot (Eno By Zaza) for an interview.
“So is Kevin Garnett welcome here?” I asked, wondering aloud whether or not their nose-to-nose playoff dance from a couple years back was still a sore spot for both men.
After laughing for a few minutes, the always gracious Zaza welcomed not only Garnett but anyone in the world named Kevin or Garnett to frequent his spot. ”On the court, I’m always going to compete and fight hard,” Pachulia said. “Off the court, is another story. I hope Kevin Garnett comes to eat here. It would be great to see.”
Spoken like a true entrepreneur.
HOOP DREAMERS BEWARE
Utah Flash coach Brad Jones dropped in for a training camp visit last week and will return to Atlanta next week on more business. The Flash, the Hawks’ D-League affiliate, will be holding a one-day tryout at Athletics and Fitness Center at Clayton State University Oct. 24 at 10 a.m.
The flash have selected at least two players from the open tryout to attend their training camp in each of the past two seasons. Jones said Wednesday afternoon that as many as 17 players will attend training camp with the team in Salt Lake City.
Jones said the one-day tryout is open to all comers, provided they register (the fee is $150 in advance and $175 on the day of camp) as well as a player release and eligibility form. Registration can be completed online (and the forms can be found on the team’s official website).
The Flash will begin preseason training camp Nov. 15 before traveling to Tulsa for their first regular season game on Nov. 27.
OSCAR BUZZ
Who knew Josh Smith was the funniest NBA player of his time? He’s always kept me in stitches, but now he’s finding his way to the web in one hilarious video after another. He actually shows off some real acting chops in his new one-man spot that’s popped up online. His latest (courtesy of our friends at adidas, via a nice assist from my main man MS):
NICKNAME MADNESS
The nickname game is heating up with the regular season just around the corner.
OG member Big Ray is campaigning vigorously to tag rookie point guard Jeff Teague with the moniker “JT0″ (pronounced “Jay Tee Oh,” in reference to his initials and uniform number while also paying homage to the classic Pontiac sports car [GTO], per Nire).
Nire has taken it a couple steps further with a pre-made theme song (which I think needs a hip-hop edge for a youngster like Teague):
I’m more inclined to watch this Teague mix:
Hawks and Grizz tonight at 8 from the Bluff City, in case you forgot.
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419 comments Add your comment
niremetal
October 15th, 2009
9:53 pm
Flip out for remainder of preseason:
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/release_murray_091014.html
Not good to see that happen to a good former Hawk…hopefully he’ll bounce back.
Ken Strickland
October 15th, 2009
10:20 pm
Marvin has the ability to put up 18-20PPG consistently, but with our guard dominated, jump shooting OFF, no effort has been made to consistently include him in the OFF, unless one of our key scorers is missing. Some have said they’re disappointed that he’s not more aggressive in taking the ball and making something happen. But when your top 3 guards are controlling the ball and calling the same play, primarily ISO jOE, BIBBY and FLIP, what more can you expect from Marvin, or any other of our frontline players?
With JJ receiving so many double/triple teams, and with Bibby being basically limited to shooting long range jumpers, you’d think Woodson would make an effort to take better advantage of Marvins ability to score from the outside and going to the basket. You’d also think he’d make our guards run more plays for him. It’s downright stupid for anyone to expect Marvin, or any other player for that matter, to be more aggressive and score 3-4 more PPG without receiving additional touches and/or having more plays called for him. We basically have 2 SG’s as starters because as a PG, Bibby doesn’t penetrate or create scoring opportunities for other players. PG JTeague isn’t the long range shooter Bibby is, and he doesn’t have his experience, but he’s everything else you want in a PG that Bibby isn’t.
It never ceases to amaze me how some of you can go overboard making issues of the play, expectations, athleticism, value and contributions of Smoove, Marvin and Horford, and even JJ, while not raising a single issue about our biggest DEF liability, slowest, least athletic and most one dimensional starter. He’s also the only starter that’s in decline. Yet, Woodson keeps running him out there as a starter, playing him heavy mins and making everyone that plays with him do calisthenics trying to compensate for his lack of speed, quickness, lateral movement and none existent DEF.
With JTeague, we have a PG that can have a CP3 type of impact on our team. Put him out there as the starter and let Bibby play the role for him that Speedy Claxton played for CP3. I’ll take a young, quick, fast PG that can penetrate and callapse a DEF over a slow, aging, one dimensional, long range jumpshooting PG that’s limited to shooting over the DEF any day of the week.
bigdave
October 15th, 2009
10:22 pm
JT $….
niremetal
October 15th, 2009
10:40 pm
Calm down, Ken. You make it sound like Bibby is nothing more than a shorter version of Steve Kerr. For all your bashing of Bibby, this team was a way-below .500 team until he got here and has been a well-above .500 team since he arrived. Bibby might seem one-dimensional to your eye, but from the day he has arrived in the league, he has played for teams that exceed expectations. He has “it” when it comes to being a PG – that effect on his teammates that doesn’t show up in his personal stats and isn’t evident from the way he plays. (And your assertion that he doesn’t penetrate or create scoring opportunities for other players is hyperbole at best and rubbish at worst – how many times have we seen him throw up an alley oop for Josh or catch Horford or Smoove in motion off a screen?).
As for Teague – I love him and love his potential, but Teague has yet to play 1 second in a real NBA game. Whether he has “it” is an open question, and one need not look too hard to find examples of small, quick guys drafted in the top 20 who didn’t have “it” as starting PGs in the NBA (Speedy Claxton, Raul Lopez, Marcus Banks, Troy Bell, Sebastian Telfair…).
Now none of this is to say that I think we should be playing Bibby more than 30 minutes a game or that we shouldn’t give the ball to our frontcourt more on offense. Let’s just not go overboard…
I MUS WRITE
October 15th, 2009
11:33 pm
Ahhhhmm Yeah……… What Ken Said, u need a column,or maybe officer friendly will let you borrow his highliter……..Good points -JJJJJ Joe Johnson for Threeeeee!!!….I dont think much will change,but hopefully we wont have go thru another season of ISO Joe and Bibby fire’n away from deep.If so i’ll probably be saying the same thing my uncle says ” You have got’z to be bull shytn- how many times are they going to run the same dam play”
I hope Josh stays away from the deep ball this year. Cringe in my seat every time he takes a shot
Big Ray
October 15th, 2009
11:56 pm
Melvin ,
You’re an instigator, I see that now.
Or should I say re-instigator, as it was me poking at Nire in the first place.
And yeah, you do deserve the blog love for suggesting a nickname for Teauge.
Ain’t it great that we’re talking about a good nickname for a rookie and there is genuine excited chatter about who gets the 13th spot on the roster ?
Big Ray
October 16th, 2009
12:00 am
Okay, I just can NOT resist….
“Let’s just not go overboard…
Quick! Somebody say something about JJ that is less than pure, unadulterated admiration!
…. dons his fire-proof suit …..
Big Ray
October 16th, 2009
12:01 am
IMUS ,
You ain’t right, man. You just ain’t right. Why you gotta go outta your way to bug da fuzz?
It’s all love, baby, it’s all love….I think….
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
12:02 am
No flames, Ray. I’m used to being caricatured as someone who can see no wrong in JJ and see no right in Josh, but you know neither is true.
Ramon
October 16th, 2009
12:35 am
So Jamison is down, and may miss a couple of regular season games. Flip is down and may miss a couple of regular season games. Lewis (Orlando) is suspended for 15 games. I truly hope this is the right start of the season the Hawks need to get up to a good 3-4 game lead in the first 15-20 games. Oh and the Miami Wades are still there. Jermaine O’Neal is looking pretty mobile this preseason. That really could be scary. The Hawks could never guard him, even on one leg.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 16th, 2009
12:54 am
“Sweet Teague”… hahaha you know Bob Rathbun would catch on to that one if he ever heard it.
vava74
October 16th, 2009
3:14 am
“NBA to alter travelling rules”
Was this devised to protect Lebron and Wade from the replacement officials?
Or to make things equal to everyone?
KevinA
October 16th, 2009
6:31 am
Najeh Davenpoop
“Sweet Teague”…
Sweet T
I like that. Souther tradition.
Coach D
October 16th, 2009
6:36 am
Teague looks like a “BAAAADDD MAAAAN”.
Remembered the comparison to Kevin Johnson of the old school Suns, but in all the games I saw him play didn’t see him dunk it once. Looks like Teague has a longer wing-span than Johnson. Hope that this kid gets to run with the first team every once in a while!
KevinA
October 16th, 2009
6:42 am
Ken Strickland
October 15th, 2009
10:20 pm
Marvin has the ability to put up 18-20PPG consistently, but with our guard dominated, jump shooting OFF, no effort has been made to consistently include him in the OFF, unless one of our key scorers is missing. Some have said they’re disappointed that he’s not more aggressive in taking the ball and making something happen. But when your top 3 guards are controlling the ball and calling the same play, primarily ISO jOE, BIBBY and FLIP, what more can you expect from Marvin, or any other of our frontline players?
Ken,
I have been making the same type of points for over a year. JT may or may not be our answer but that will not solve the entire answer. Bibby brings a lot of experience and has skill sets that are important to utilize. But there are trends that he could help make happen.
Bottom line he could push the ball much more and make himself the 5th option instead of second.
Your first paragraph says it all in a nut shell. Nice post.
KevinA
October 16th, 2009
6:54 am
Big Ray
October 16th, 2009
12:00 am
Okay, I just can NOT resist….
“Let’s just not go overboard…
Quick! Somebody say something about JJ that is less than pure, unadulterated admiration!
Ray,
Few are better than JJ running an ISO play for himself. JJ and Bibby have controlled entire games with their terrific shooting. They are one of the most feared back court tandems in the NBA.
oooohhhhhhh – less than pure, unadulterated admiration!
We lose when they go 10-40. The mark of true champions – when you start 3-13 keep shooting. If you are 3-9, why not try passing and work on defense to get a couple possessions back…….
RMan
October 16th, 2009
7:33 am
“Big League” Teague = “BLT”
Biggest Nuttz
October 16th, 2009
8:18 am
hahahahaha
October 14th, 2009
11:45 pm
OUR ORGANIC GROWTH THAT’S CAUSED THE ANNUAL IMPROVEMENT WE’VE EXPERIENCED OVER THE LAST 5YRS- hahah Who writes this sh!t. You are funny man.Did you ever play b-bal?
Link Report this comment Ken Strickland
October 15th, 2009
12:28 am
HAHAHAHA-ASK YOU MOTHER, SHE WAS THE PG AND MADE CERTAIN EVERYONE SCORED.
Link Report this comment hahahahaha
October 15th, 2009
6:12 am
Ken Strickland You are a class act!
Link Report this comment hahahahaha
October 15th, 2009
6:21 am
I guess that means no you did not play b-ball
Link Report this comment Wink
October 15th, 2009
6:24 am
* Your Mother
Link Report this comment Biggest Nuttz
October 15th, 2009
6:46 am
hahahahaha – I think what Ken is trying to say is the Hawks got better inspite of Woodson; he is therefore not worthy of the # 9 ranking in the coach of the year poll last year, and should be fired. I’m not ready to call Ken a hater, just sick, demented. I apologize for him for the verbal assault on your mother. Often times that’s what confused and twisted children do when they have a lot of hate and anger inside and lack the proper social communicative skills to express themselves as adults.
Do what many of us do and just look past him. For the record I don’t think he has played b-ball either.
dap01
October 16th, 2009
8:22 am
The Hawks will improve if Teague can continue to improve. His game would open up the whole team to utilize their strenghts. He would push the ball and get it to the first open person. Not walk it up and dominate the ball and shoot. He would penetrate and break down a defense. Not wait till the last second and shoot a three. He could dynamically change our team for the better.
JerryWest
October 16th, 2009
8:22 am
Sekou,
Could you ask Jason Collins to compare this team to some of the best teams he played in? Same question to Joe Smith. Thanks.
Daniel
October 16th, 2009
8:42 am
IMUS- I will definitely look for you. Sekou’s Bloggers in the house!!
Although, I am already intimidated by your style. I will probably just go with my usual hat and t-shirt, but now I might have to think about it. Honestly, I wear what my wife lays out. I know it sounds weak, but I would rather be happy than “right”. Ya know what I’m sayin’
Melvin- All Love, You are the originator, instigator, propogator, elevator(?). Seriously, you are the man.
Daniel
October 16th, 2009
8:44 am
Sekou- Obviously, you answered what was up with Joe Smith not playing. Are we to assume a similar plan with Collins? Or is he really out of shape?
Daniel
October 16th, 2009
8:46 am
dap01- I agree with your post in terms of the future. I don’t think we can expect Teague to change the essence of the team this year. If he gets 10-15 mins. with the second unit and can provide a change of pace that would be awesome enough for this year.
Ladies and Gentleman, start your engines, now from Wake Forest, number 0 in the program, but #1 in your hearts, its…..J T OOOOOOOOOOO!!!
SWAT Native
October 16th, 2009
9:20 am
Coach D,
You said “Remembered the comparison to Kevin Johnson of the old school Suns, but in all the games I saw him play didn’t see him dunk it once”. You don’t mean KJ do you? He actually was a very impressive dunker early in his career.
SWAT Native
October 16th, 2009
9:26 am
…in fact, here he is dunking over Hakeem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJvGIvWHfI
The Flash
October 16th, 2009
9:29 am
This offense and Marvin’s value in it is not on Bibby or even JJ, but rather Woody. I remain unconvinced that JJ can function in at a high level in an offense that would call for him to make quick decisions rather than feature him aka Lebron-like, but with the talent this team has it is time to find out.
As long as Marvin carries his upper body the way he does when on the move and in shooting, he will not be a consistent 20 ppg man. Because he is so close to the vertical with his upper body, there is little room for error without throwing his balance during the release out of whack. He knows when it isn’t there and will not shoot it when it isn’t. On the other hand, this team now has enough guys with a good catch and shoot game (from different ranges) who could play with a flow in which Marvin’s basketball IQ, his ability to touch pass, his ability to clear space, his ability to shoot off a dribble or two that would break down defenses as much as guard pentetration, can be used much more.
While I believe that this is a Woody issue first and foremost, I agree with Ken’s assessment that the offense panders to what JJ and Bibby prefer. That, nireman, might be enough to bring this team from below to above 500, hey, before Bibby, Doc would have been an improvement at the point, the stagnation and underutilization of others that Bibby being Bibby brings will put a limit on this club.
The only way that that don’t happen is if Pete Carrill or one of his disciples comes here and puts a pro-style Princeton that plays through a high-post passing big, aka Webber, and takes the major distribution away from Bibby. That is where I have always been with this team. Now, I’d much rather see a more flexible passing offense that features players like JJ and MW and HOrton in the pivot, and that would be the Triangle.
Otherwise, you just might find that Ken is on the better side of right and that this team functions best with Teague and not Bibby handling. Have a good day, guys.
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
9:48 am
I don’t really disagree with anything you said, Flash. My only quibble is that I have a tough time believing that Bibby and JJ – both of whom excelled in fast-paced, motion-oriented offenses until they came to Atlanta – are primarily responsible for the “stagnation and underutilization of others” that has happened under Woody. That stagnation has been around ever since Woody’s first day as coach, before Bibby and even before JJ arrived.
Hoops
October 16th, 2009
9:56 am
nire,
There are many different roads to the NBA Finals! Every team does not travel the same one to get there.
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
10:06 am
Hoops,
Uh…when did I ever say that they did?
KevinA
October 16th, 2009
10:12 am
niremetal,
Now you know why the jury is still out on Woody. Will you admit the offense runs through Bibby and JJ? Seems like the, “stagnation and underutilization of others”, responsibility would fall to these three cast of characters.
Sekou Smith
October 16th, 2009
10:19 am
Yes, Daniel, no sense in burning up the minutes on veterans when you know exactly what you’re going to get from them. Collins is still working his way into tip top shape. But he’s ready to play right now. There are only so many minutes to get looks at the youngsters, and ultimately the preseason is the time to get that done.
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
10:31 am
KevinA,
I admit that they are the ones who bring the ball up the floor. But Woody is the one that designs the system. Bibby ran one of the most efficient and effective fast-paced offenses in NBA history (and that is not an exaggeration) in Sacramento. JJ played the wing-who-often-brought-the-ball-up-the-floor role in a fast-paced offense in Phoenix, which was another one of the most effective fast-paced offenses in NBA history. Do you honestly think that they both came to Atlanta and decided to run motion-free ISO plays all the time? Designing the system isn’t their job, and the offense we run bears no resemblance to the offenses both players were used to when they arrived in Atlanta.
Michael Jordan participated in a not-dissimilar ISO-oriented offense under Doug Collins in Chicago. Was it his fault that the Bulls could only get so far with it? Was it Shaq and Kobe and Eddie Jones’s fault that the Lakers couldn’t win it all before Phil arrived? Do you really think it’s a coincidence that 22 of the past 25 NBA Finals have been won by 5 coaches (Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, Pat Riley, Rudy T, and Chuck Daly)?
So does the offense “run through” them? Yes. But the player’s job is execution, not strategy or even tactics. No player since Bill Russell has been responsible for strategy, tactics, and execution simultaneously.
Are Bibby and JJ partially responsible? Yeah. All the players are responsible to some degree – Marvin and Horford and Josh are at least partially responsible for their own failure to set more off-ball screens and otherwise create more movement without the ball. And I certainly will grant that since Bibby are the veterans and supposed to be the leaders among the troops and since they bring the ball up most frequently, they are more responsible than the other players for the state of affairs.
But unless you think Woody has designed an offense that involves a lot of ball movement and lots of off-ball movement and that Bibby and JJ are simply ignoring it (and unless you also ignore the fact that Woody ran the same damned “offense” before either player arrived), then the responsibility lies primarily with Woody.
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
10:33 am
*since JJ and Bibby are the veterans
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
10:38 am
Let me put in a much shorter and sweeter way: If Mike D’Antoni or Pat Riley or Phil Jackson were the coach here, I don’t think anyone would be complaining about JJ and Bibby holding the ball too much. If the coach is doing his job, the players don’t have to worry about stuff like this. It’s only when the coach isn’t doing his job that a player has to step up and take the bull by the horns like people seem to be demanding of Bibby and JJ – and I will point out that no team has ever won a title with a player having to take on that kind of responsibility for his coach’s failings.
Myrak43
October 16th, 2009
10:45 am
Ok while people are trying to decide what nick name to call Teague… I like Sweet T more than JTO. Just me. Why don’t we have a nick name for our oldest player, Joe Smith……..? How about Papa Smurf…..Sweet T (smurf)says, “Papa Smurf, how much father is it to the NBA championship?” Papa smurf says, ” Not much farther Sweet T smurf not much farther!!!”
I will spellcheck nexttime
October 16th, 2009
10:47 am
Ok while people are trying to decide what nick name to call Teague… I like Sweet T more than JTO. Just me. Why don’t we have a nick name for our oldest player, Joe Smith……..? How about Papa Smurf…..Sweet T (smurf)says, “Papa Smurf, how much futher is it to the NBA championship?” Papa smurf says, ” Not much further Sweet T smurf not much further!!!”
Dos Hawkquis
October 16th, 2009
11:21 am
BIG RAY, SEKOU, NIRE, ET AL,
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4563546
According to this article the NBA is “changing” the rule on 2-steps, when receiving the ball. What effect will this have on Lebron’s “CRAB DRIBBLE” and did the league make this change this year to placate Lebron in some way?
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!!”
Dos Hawkquis
October 16th, 2009
11:25 am
BIG RAY,
Would you please give a “clinic” on how to use the emoticon. Do it in a Emoticon For Dummies style. I am a little slow.
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
11:29 am
Dos,
It’s been YEARS since I’ve seen a ref enforce that rule. I’m much more concerned about the number of steps refs let players get away with after they stop dribbling than I am about the steps they take before they start. THAT is where LeBron, Wade, and Kobe are able to get away with murder (same with MJ when he played). Jamal Crawford has gotten away with quite a few in his day too…
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 16th, 2009
11:34 am
Sweet T is a no go! I can’t get with the Sweet T, sounds a little fruity. JT$, JT0, J Quick, and Big League Teague are good choices. Please cool it with the Sweet T, that’s too girly. We want a nick name that sounds tough and at the same time describes his moves on the court. How about calling Joe Smith- J Wise or J Smart since he’s in the position to drop some NBA knowlege on our maturing Hawks.
As far as players stepping up, I’d like to see the entire squad step up and try to take their game to another level cause I think it’s gonna take a full team effort to make progress and get to the next. I just don’t agree with putting the burden on one player since basketball is supposed to be a team sport anyway.
Rod from College Park
October 16th, 2009
11:36 am
Ken,
“Marvin has the ability to put up 18-20PPG consistently, but with our guard dominated, jump shooting OFF, no effort has been made to consistently include him in the OFF, unless one of our key scorers is missing. Some have said they’re disappointed that he’s not more aggressive in taking the ball and making something happen. But when your top 3 guards are controlling the ball and calling the same play, primarily ISO jOE, BIBBY and FLIP, what more can you expect from Marvin, or any other of our frontline players?”
So you are telling me that if you plugged Melo, Granger, Wallace, Gay… in our starting lineup, they would only average 13 points a game. NOT. Marvin does not get the ball like that for a reason. He has proven over his career that he does not want to nor does he have the ability to be a consistent scoring threat. One or two games a year with over 20 points when Joe was out is not consistent. He is a catch and shoot guy (jumpshooter), who does not want to shoot. He can’t post smaller players, has no handles and really has no offensiive creativity. I will grant you that he can drive and draw fouls, but rarely gets and 1’s because his finishing skills and body control is not there. All of this lockdown defender (you did not say that) stuff is really funny. While I do agree that our offense is flawed, someone who is an aggressive offensive player should actually thrive in our offense. The way Joe was doubled and tripled last year, it should be very easy for a player with any offensive ability to look very good in our offense (see Flip). Having Ability does not mean you can average 18 to 20 points a game. He has not proved that he can bottom line. That is his fault, not Coach Woodson, Bibby or Joe’s.
Dos Hawkquis
October 16th, 2009
11:38 am
NICK NAME FOR J-TEAGUE.
What about JTMoney, he is “money” going to the lane. It is also a shout out to the rapper, JTMoney who made “Who Dat?”
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
Ernest
October 16th, 2009
12:08 pm
Couldn’t you see the promotion for ‘Sweet Teague’ down south? Every home game that he hits a 3 pointer, you get a free sweet Tea from McDonalds with your ticket.
What kind of promotion would you do with JTO or BLT?
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
12:19 pm
Dos,
I think there’s a Wordpress emoticons primer page somewhere. You can probably google it…
Ken Strickland
October 16th, 2009
12:32 pm
MIREMETAL-I’m not bashing Bibby, I’m just stating the obvious. When he came to the Hawks he was just what the doctor ordered, and we responded. However, teams have recognized his limitations and are exploiting them successfully. As a result, Woodson has been forced to add undue responsibilitie to other players in order to compensate and keep him on the floor for extended mins. That in itself has become a problem because our overall DEF has suffered as a result.
As far as your position on Teague, one has to only look at the history of NBA PG’s that have succeeded after their ability to have an impact, or even make an NBA team, was questioned(IThomas, MBoggs, CPaul, NArchibal, CCriss, SWebb, AJohnson). Come on NIRE, how can you even try to use your list of drafted PG’s that didn’t live up to expectations to justify the idea that Teague MIGHT NOT BE READY OR ABLE to take control of this team? THAT’S NOT LIKE YOU MAN.
If you consider Bibby’s contributions beneficial to the team, then Teague, who has far more to offer, should be an upgrade over Bibby, which would certainly benefit the team more. Bibby would still be available to do his thing when needed. If the Hawks had drafted CPaul or DWilliams, think what we’d have missed out on if your approach had been used to have Bibby play heavy mins as our starter over either of them?
The point I’ve been trying to make is if we intend to get to the next level and compete for a higher seed, especially a championship, we need to strengthen our biggest weaknesses, and that’s Bibby’s limitations, especially on DEF. Marvin’s perceived lack or aggressiveness, Horford’s mechanical post moves or Smoove shooting 3’s aren’t holding us back as much as Bibby’s limitations, especially his poor DEF. WHAT HE’S MANAGED TO DO IN THE PAST, ESPECIALLY FOR OTHER TEAMS, ISN’T GOING TO MAKE US OR HIM GET ANY BETTER.
If Bibby could penetrate he’d be able to create easy shots for our frontline players, like CPaul so successfully does, and Smoove wouldn’t have to sit on the 3pt line waiting for a pass from Bibby. JJ wouldn’t have to end up in so many ISO situations trying to dribble through double/triple teams. Marvin and Horford wouldn’t have to spend so much time drifting away from the basket waiting for a pass or something to happen with our far to many ISO’s.
THE BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT WE CAN MAKE TO THIS CURRENT HAWKS TEAM IS TO UPGRADE THE STARTING PG POSITION BEFORE WE START TALKING ABOUT BRINGING IN ANOTHER STARTING CENTER, MOVING HORFORD TO PF, SMOOVE TO SF, OR MARVIN TO THE BENCH.
KEVINA-I actually remember you making virtually the same response to a previous post I made on this matter.
FLASH-I couldn’t agree with you more. It is a Woody issue, which is why he’s made so many DEF adjustments and changes in order to keep Bibby on the floor so much, despite his obvious DEF/OFF liabilities. Although Bibby’s OFF/DEF skills are limited, his experience, and what he does do well, are exactly what Woodson wants from his PG. In college and the NBA, Woodson was a prolific jumpshooter that was fundamentally sound, but he wasn’t very athletic or strong on DEF. SO, IF JJ AND BIBBY CONSISTENTLY RUN ISO’S FOR THEMSELVES AND SLOW THE OFF AND BALL MOVEMENT DOWN, IT’S EITHER WHAT WOODSON WANTS TO HAPPEN OR HE DOESN’T HAVE CONTROL OF THIS TEAM. There have been statements made by insiders that indicated certain players have tuned him out and only listen to him when it suits them. No players have been named, but it’s definitely worth considering. Maybe that’s one of the reasons Sund chose not to commit to a contract extension. I still expect him to do a better job of coaching the team this yr than he’s done in the past.
doublet23
October 16th, 2009
12:35 pm
lewis is only suspended 10 games and jamison injurie is not bad hes gonna miss only preaseason gamesbut i think we can come in second place only behind of orlando in the hardest division in my opinion….
The Second Track of Rod's Mind
October 16th, 2009
12:53 pm
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Yupperz
October 16th, 2009
12:56 pm
“There have been statements made by insiders that indicated certain players have tuned him out and only listen to him when it suits them.”
When was thuis, Sekou didn’t write anything like that
Clyde
October 16th, 2009
1:08 pm
Ken Strickland is speaking for me in my absence. ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
October 16th, 2009
1:25 pm
Ken,
Gotta say, I’m a little bit puzzled. I made a list of short and quick PGs who didn’t succeed, you made a list of ones that did. Doesn’t that just show that it could go either way? I never said Teague couldn’t succeed. I said he might not, and I don’t see why listing some examples of others who went down that road and failed isn’t a valid way of showing that. You’re really that damned sure that Teague is “ready and able” to take over this team? What leads you to believe he’ll be more like Nate Archibald or Chris Paul than Speedy Claxton or Sebastian Telfair (both of whom have had ok-but-not-great careers)? This is why I avoid making bold predictions about rookies, especially rookie PGs. You never really know how they’re going to do until they have to marshall a team in games that count.
Relatedly, comparing Teague to CP3 and Deron isn’t exactly fair, since Teague was drafted #19 instead of in the Top 4, and he was drafted to be groomed as a successor to an entrneched starting PG, not to take the reins right away and be a “franchise PG” like CP3 and Deron were. There were also WAY more questions about Teague’s ability to be a “true PG” than there were about CP3 and Deron. If he was such a sure thing, then frankly there wouldn’t have been so many PGs and combo guards who got selected ahead of him this year.
In any case, as I said before, I’m not suggesting that we bench Teague entirely or that we play Bibby as many minutes as Woody played him last year. ALL I am saying is let’s reserve judgment on Teague’s readiness to take the reins as a starter until we actually see him play in a real NBA game. Because while he appears to have all the physical tools and skills you need to be a starting PG, we don’t know that he has the awareness or ability to take charge of his teammates on the floor. So let’s give him 18-20 minutes a night at the PG at the start of the regular season and see how he handles things. If he shows us something in those real games, we increase those minutes and soon enough make him the starter (which is the same route, btw, that no less a PG than John Stockton took). What’s wrong with that?
In any case, I think we all agree that the crux of the problem starts and ends with Woody. If we ran a more motion-oriented offense with more high post touches and ball movement, the need for a drive-and-dish PG would be drastically reduced. I wish that were one of the offensive “wrinkles” that was coming, but something tells me it’s not…