Come see for yourself
You can catch Al Horford on Twitter anytime and at the Hawks' free public practice Saturday at Philips Arena.
HAWKSVILLE – For you Hawks fans fortunate enough to call the 13th colony home, Saturday is your day.
“Your” team is holding an open practice (free to the public) at Philips Arena from 11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. that will allow you to see for yourself all the things you’ve read and chatted about around here lately.
If you want to see just how unbelievably humongous rookie behemoth Garret Siler is, this is your chance.
Maybe you’ve always wondered what that tattoo on Josh Smith’s left forearm said, well this might be your chance to find out.
If you want to see if Joe Johnson uses the perfect form on his jumper, you can see it for free Saturday morning on the main floor.
Or maybe you just want to size up guys like Randolph Morris and Joe Smith to see if they have the bulk needed to help improve the Hawks’ frontcourt depth. Do it Saturday.
If Mike Woodson is the object of your affection (or something else, ha), now is your time to see him for yourself. Tell him all the stuff you write about him here, if you feel the urge (watch this team work in person and you might get a different feel for them and for the coach, or not).
ONE LAST TIME, Saturday, Oct. 10, from 11:30 a.m.-1:00 p.m. the Hawks will take the floor at Philips for a practice that is open to the public and free for any and all that wish to attend.
I guarantee you it will make our debates around here more spirited, at least for next few days. Because once you see this stuff for yourself, you won’t have to just take my word(s) for what transpired. You’ll have seen it with your own eyes and come to your own informed opinion about what is what.
ANOTHER TWITTER UPDATE
There’s another new Hawks’ neighbor on Twitter these days. Al Horford has officially joined the 140-character revolution and can be found on the network with a swift click. The Big Gator is witty and is sure to keep you informed on all things Hawks from an insider’s perspective. I see him daily but I’m still reading his tweets every chance I get just to see what I might have missed.
BREAKFAST WITH THE HAWKS?
From our friends at Truehoop we have breakfast with the Hawks, a nekit-chested Josh Smith in particular.
There goes lunch!
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240 comments Add your comment
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
12:08 am
Nire are you making these comments about Frye without watching the game tonite? Dude has the height and bulk to play in the paint and the touch to shoot it from outside. And with him making 2mil/yr, why can’t we have him and Marvin on the team?
Jody
October 11th, 2009
12:14 am
Melvin,
Agreed. I think the Hawks missed a good one.
Big Ray,
You hit the nail on the head.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
1:24 am
I didn’t say we couldn’t have him and Marvin on the team. But any sequences where Frye is playing at center and Horford at PF is a step down from Horford at C and Josh at PF.
And I guess you didn’t see my first point – we don’t know that HE had any interest in signing with us. You do realize that he grew up in Arizona, right?
Ray, I’ll point once again to 82 games:
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809ATL2.HTM
Again, it shows Josh not playing a single minute at SF last year. So no, he didn’t play even “some” time at SF last year – or at least no unit involving him at SF played on the floor for more than 32 minutes over the course of the entire season.
It’s not like it was infeasible for the Hawks to play both Zaza and Al on the floor at the same time – 4 Zaza-Horford units are on that link above, including the 5th most commonly-used unit during the course of the whole season. So that wasn’t the reason Josh didn’t spend time at SF last year. The reason is because Josh plays better the closer he is to the basket, on BOTH ends of the floor.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
1:30 am
And Melvin, I did watch the game tonight. I also watched about 30-40 Blazers games last year (as I’ve said many time, they are my 2nd favorite team, largely by virtue of my girlfriend being a Portland native), and saw Frye get pushed around whenever he took the floor. When he did play, it was usually as a PF and not a C.
I’m sorry, but you’re going to judge a player’s strength in the middle from a preseason game against the Warriors (who play no D and don’t feed the ball to the post)? Come on, now…
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
1:48 am
In any case, as I said this is all a moot point – Frye went to junior high, high school, and college in Arizona. Since they traded Shaq and have no one who plays PF/C besides Stoudamire and the lesser Lopez, he was and is likely to see far more minutes there than he would here. Why the hell would he turn down a chance to play starter’s minutes in his home state to live across the country and be the second big man off our bench?
For the billionth time, this isn’t NBA Live. We can’t just make an offer, snap our fingers, and poof – he’s signing the contract.
Jin Rummy
October 11th, 2009
2:02 am
Nire, YES JOSH DID. LAST SEASON when the celtics came to town for the last time in April or late March, Zaza started at center Al was PF, and Smoove played SF….I’ll find a box score for you….
Ariose
October 11th, 2009
2:09 am
BAM!!
http://www.nba.com/games/20090327/BOSATL/boxscore.html
J-Smoove at the SF spot. 82games needs to step THEIR game up ha.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
2:12 am
You’re right, Gin, I remember that one game where we experimented with that big lineup. And of course, even then, we only went with that lineup because Marvin was out hurt.
But again – that lineup played no more than 32 minutes over the course of the whole season, or else it would have shown up on the 82games list. Even I was sure to qualify my statement above to say that. Josh’s minutes at SF have been cut every year since he came into the league, and last year was simply the culmination of that. No lineup with Josh at SF got more than 32 minutes on the floor during the 3900+ minutes the Hawks played last year – despite the fact that Marvin missed a quarter of the season.
Ariose
October 11th, 2009
2:15 am
….and we play a switching defense so TECHNICALLY Mike Bibby played a TON of minutes at SF….and TECHNICALLY yes you can list marvin as a SF/PF. And I’d be mad if I was playing in a fantasy leauge and didn’t have the option to play him there. Does it really matter? I’ve already explained how smoove at the SF won’t necessarily leave us at a disadvantage….
Ariose
October 11th, 2009
2:24 am
Nire, I’m gin and…
“Even I was sure to qualify my statement above to say that.”
Hmmm… but what about this statement?
“So no, he didn’t play even “some” time at SF last year”
A contradiction? But wait!
“or at least no unit involving him at SF played on the floor for more than 32 minutes over the course of the entire season.
“
Ooh! nice way to cover your tracks this time yes, yes. When we’ve had this debate in the past, and you didn’t put that last bit of info in there back then. I would’ve cought you in the past if I hadn’t been too lazy to actually look it up.
G’Night all…
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
2:26 am
Yup, as I suspected – check out the play-by-play from that game:
http://www.nba.com/games/20090327/BOSATL/playbyplay.html
The lineup with Josh at SF lasted for all of 6 minutes before Mo came to get Josh with the Hawks down 15-11. Woody used the same lineup to start the second half, and the Celtics came out and outscored the Hawks 10-5 before Mo came to get Zaza again at the 7:16 mark. So the Josh at SF lineup only played for 11 minutes that game, and it didn’t do so hot, posting a -9 in a game the Hawks lost by 6.
I checked the games around it and that lineup wasn’t used at all then, which isn’t surprising since it obviously was used for 32 or less during the season, 11 of which were during that game against Boston…
vava74
October 11th, 2009
5:26 am
Nire,
As always you are bring some sense to the table.
Frye is has some nice “soft” offensive skills, but he is hardly a real PF, in particular defensively.
People that judge players just by looking at the boxscores do know a single thing about BBall…
vava74
October 11th, 2009
5:26 am
And he is obviously not a real Center!!!
Samuel
October 11th, 2009
5:49 am
hawks_4_life,
No, I hated it. The only good thing about that place is it’s about an hour from Vegas and 2 from LA and San Diego. Other than that, it sucks.
Arguing over positions is stupid. Frye is a good ballplayer. He would have helped this team but we decided to go with Crawford, Smith and Collins. I’d rather have Frye but he’s not here so let’s move on please.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
9:55 am
Nire,
Comeon, look at the logjam of rotational bigs in Portland last season. Frye didn’t get consisten mins there. He played well in NYC and had a few good games in Portland. We’ll see whether he shines in PHX.
Vava74,
You question folks player evaluation skills b/c they reference boxscores to support their analysis and then agree with Niremetal who is the STAT KING that uses statistical data in all his disputes???
Sam,
Agreed with your 5:49 post.
Seven
October 11th, 2009
10:49 am
JT (Teague) played well even though his shot is flat, i told him he needs some arch on his shot
but he was fearless taking the rock to the hole.
Frank Robinson was all around impressive to me.
Juan Dixon needs to REMAIN a journeyman (no place can i see for him on this team) (he was the worst of all the guards that hit the floor).
Zaza and Mario were as expected.
Bibby lazy to me, he was half as’n the practice drills (not a good look).
Horford looked pretty nice out on the floor.
Garet Siler in my view of things appears to be a BUST so far, he didnt play preseason nor did he play in practice. Is the reasoning still because he is ‘out of shape’? (if so that is UNEXCUSABLE)
Josh Smith once of his first shots of practice game was from the outside (i squenched) he needs to stay low!
Joe was same ol’ joe
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
12:28 pm
Melvin,
I’m sorry, but what? I think you must be getting me confused with someone else. I bash people ALL THE TIME for simply looking just at box scores. I’ve pointed to the “No Stats All-Star” article about 400 times and say at least once a week that a player’s value can’t be measured by stats. The only things I cite with any frequency at all are 1) the 82games lists of 5-man units; and 2) rebounding stats. That’s why I talk in the abstract so much – because I don’t think basketball can be learned from box scores.
I seriously have no freaking clue how you can call me the “stat king.” That’s like calling Ariose anti-YouTube.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
12:29 pm
And I noticed you still won’t address why Frye would have any interest in coming to Atlanta over Phoenix. Funny.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
12:48 pm
I just went back in checked. In the past 14 days, I have made about 90 posts total. I have brought up stats in exactly two of those posts – both times the stat was minutes per game and both times it was to make the point.
I brought up or cited to a box score only twice. The first time was to correct someone who posted that our guards had combined to shoot 8 for 27 from the field in the preseason opener (I pointed out that they actually had shot 14 for 30). The second was above, when Gin/Ariose linked to the box score of the one game where Josh started at SF last year, and I pointed out that he was only SF for 11 minutes in that game, and the Hawks did worse with that lineup (-9) than they did the rest of the game (+3).
On the other hand, I did make this statement 9 days ago:
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2009/09/30/did-johnson-makes-the-right-call/comment-page-2/#comment-31911
I put about as much stock into a player’s box score stats as I do into astrology (read: none). That’s why my favorite guys in the NBA are the Shane Battiers and Bruce Bowens who help their teams win in ways that NEVER show up in stats. And why I was pushing for Woody to play Mario more this past year despite the fact that he’d never create a blip in the box score.
As I said, you must be getting me confused with something else. My posts almost never include stats, and when they do, they usually focus on things that can’t be gleaned from looking at the box score. I am a fierce critic of the John Hollingers and other who try to reduce basketball to stats, so I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m the “stat king” who uses statistical data in all my disputes. That’s just BS.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
12:53 pm
Nire,
Read again. My response was to Vava74, in reference to the boxscore comment. As for Frye (or any player of that matter), we don’t know all the factors that go into their decisions. You make a valid point about him wanting to go back to Phx (I have no argument against that) but do you know if the Hawks had any interest in him? Also, I only suggest who I like to see the Hawks acquire. I don’t get involved with why or why not a player would be a Hawk. I don’t have that type of inside info so I don’t engage in type of discussion unless a player was quoted with related info.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
1:02 pm
Nire,
Why are you so touchy about the stat comment? You have referred to stats, quotes and etc to make a point and I never given you any grief about in the past. My response was to Vava74 and how he question someone opinion b/c that cited a boxscore and give you credit when you reference the boxscore in your previous arguement with Ariose. It ain’t that serious Nire….
vava74
October 11th, 2009
1:33 pm
Melvin,
You attacked my post by referring nire as a stat king, I think that nire had the right to directly contest your post.
I attacked your post because I know that Frye looks good on boxscores but is a deeply flawed player.
He has a jump shooting game on a large frame, he is soft as a puff down low, has no real post moves and is a huge defensive liability.
If Frye was such a great ball player as his stats might indicate to the untrained eye (the way that he fills up a boxscore once in while) how come he has been jumping from team to team?
Obviously I would not say no to him being a 10th to 13th guy in our roster, however, you cannot count on him being as useful and productive as for instance Crawford or Joe Smith can.
And don’t mix Collins in the same conversation: Collins was hired as a big body with on the ball defensive ability, something that Frye obviously does not bring to the table.
Back to stats and boxscores:
Do you consider Zach Randolph a good player? How well fare his teams? How about Iverson since Larry Brown left Philly?
There are stats and stats and boxscores only tell a very small portion of the story.
ILL-logical
October 11th, 2009
1:53 pm
This week should give the fans a chance to see all of the roster proir to the final cuts. While there are some obvious candidates for the axe, there could be some surprises on the final roster. Whoever makes the cut will have a chance to be part of a very good team that should be at least as good during the regular season but have an post season.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
1:58 pm
Vava,
Read my post again. I was WATCHING the GS/Phx game last night. Not one time did I mention Frye stats. Considering Frye age, ability, size and modest contract I thought he would be a great addition to this team. Much as I like Joe Smith, he and Collins are probably 1yr rentals where as Frye could have been signed for multiple years.
vava74
October 11th, 2009
2:20 pm
Melvin,
The issue seems to be that people around here all cry out for the Hawks being contenders this year or at least to fare well in the second round and maybe reach the conference finals (which I believe to be a realistic objective).
That is why we went after Joe Smith and Collins covering some specific needs: front court help, veteran tutelage to Al and Josh and defensive skills or body weight to play against Howard and Shaq.
Frye would not contribute in any of these needs since he is a jump shooter, young and in need of tutelage himself and cannot defend big opponents down low.
Hence, Frye would not help us become a stronger outfit this year as these one year rentals will (at least as we all hope).
Also, the reasoning used for boxscores is applicable in general to any performance against the Warriors since Nelson’s teams have a tendency to make own players and opposition players look A LOT BETTER than they really are.
Frye is suited for Phoenix’s running system, as for instance Tim Thomas was for the last bit of the 2005-06 season, but he would not suit our system.
Woody may have many shortcomings but one thing is certain, the Hawks play good team defence. Since Frye doesn’t have a clue defensively, his usefulness would be extremely limited unless he had a very strong evolution in that front (unlikely).
By overlooking this, even if you are not, you do seem like someone who only looks at boxscores when expressing an appreciation for a player.
All the above applies as well, for instance, to Charlie Villanueva: he simply did not fit our game. I saw him playing with Al for DR and he was extremely selfish offensively and extremely lazy defensively.
All the opposite of what we needed.
Something slightly different happens with Crawford – who is also known as being a guy “who never says no to a shot” – since his role as 6th man calls for him to be an offensive threat more that anything else. Furthermore, his assists’ averages show that he can also share the ball effectively when called to do that.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
2:41 pm
Vava,
First you accuse me of looking at the boxscores, then when I told you to read my post again. You make this statement:
“By overlooking this, even if you are not, you do seem like someone who only looks at boxscores when expressing an appreciation for a player.”
Reveiw the archives and find where I reference boxscores. As for how you feel who do or don’t fit this team, thats your opinion and your opinion is no better than anyone else’s.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
2:43 pm
Also, I base my opinion of players by watching them play in person not boxscores. I attend Hawks and Bobcats games annually…
ufø
October 11th, 2009
3:49 pm
Samuel is the ESPN NBA.com fantasy basketball for free?
ufø
October 11th, 2009
3:53 pm
Please let me know if you know something.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
4:08 pm
Melvin,
I’m sorry man, but I’m “touchy” about it because you called me “the STAT KING that uses statistical data in all his disputes.” The fact that it was addressed to someone else doesn’t change the fact that you were talking about me. When you say something about someone else on a public blog that you know the other person reads, you should expect the other person to respond. When you say it in a post that also had a segment addressed to that person, you really should expect them to respond. When you say something about them that is, frankly, a load of crap, you REALLY should expect them to respond.
I take great pride in the amount of time I spend watching games instead of reading box scores and looking up stats. If you hadn’t painted a picture of me being “the STAT KING” who constantly uses stats in his arguments, I wouldn’t have said anything. But since you did, I think I had a pretty good reason to be “touchy” in response.
hawks_4_life
October 11th, 2009
4:46 pm
UFO
I dont think anything relating to ESPN is free!!!!
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
4:55 pm
This one is just for Clyde:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/nets_williams_chases_another_long_4dHX9AUzzLjn7ct8OofrlL
The Nets happily grabbed Sean Williams with the 17th pick in the 2007 draft, looking beyond his checkered history and seeing Rodman-like potential in the 6-foot-10 jumping-jack forward with the flexible, shot-blocking wingspan.
Now, as he prepares for his third pro season, Williams is playing for his NBA career. The Nets have until Oct. 31 to pick up Williams’ contract option and it is likely, almost certain, they will pass. His contributions and potential have been overshadowed by a perceived laissez-faire attitude and a series of bad decisions that landed him, among other places, in anger management classes.
Ouch. It’s very rare for a team to fail to pick up an option on a first round pick since rookie contracts are so cheap. Yup, Sean Williams would have been sooooooooooo much better than Horford.
Ariose
October 11th, 2009
5:13 pm
LOL@ low blow! hehehe!!…
KevinA
October 11th, 2009
5:40 pm
Are the Hawks on radio tonight?
Jody
October 11th, 2009
6:25 pm
As I’m listening to game, the hawks have NO post game whatsoever.
vava74
October 11th, 2009
6:50 pm
Melvin,
If you fail to see how Frye’s game is flawed and how he would not fit in then we should not debate.
Remember, posting on a blog like this should not be mixed up with a conversation between two people.
Nonetheless, I think it makes some logic to go over this issue again:
You shouted something which I profoundly disagree on (Frye’s game) and I shouted back with my opinion on Frye and not necessarily to accuse YOU personally of posting on account of looking at THIS boxscore.
The reason for my shout back relates precisely with the fact that I strongly disagreed with many who suggested that we should have gone after Frye or Villanueva.
I shouted back against the concept – giving meaning to boxscores – which goes beyond the actual fact of looking at a specific boxscore since it includes a certain way of looking at basketball which gives too much importance to certain aspects of the game, overlooking others which are more important.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
7:06 pm
Nire,
I’m sorry that you take so much pride in a public blog where the users are anonymous (for the most part) and everyone opinion is subjective.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
7:20 pm
Vava,
I agree that Joe Smith is savvy vet that could be a good addition to this team but he’s not known as a banger either. There’s quite a few 6-10 and taller guys that are consider finesse players but games are very effective such Bosh, Aldridge, Gasol, just to name a few….
cp
October 11th, 2009
7:22 pm
You can listen to the game on 790 the zone. Its halftime now they are down 49-46. Marvin is 6-11 so far. They are 0-6 behind the 3 point line. Teague has 5 poins and 4 dimes in the first half. They are talking about the number of fouls called and the many turnovers. I missed the first half so im just typing what im hearing so far. Hunter had 6 first half points. Josh Smith 8 points and 6 boards in the fist half. Hawks shooting 44 percent. Thats the recap they gave.
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
7:36 pm
Josh is having a block party. He has 4 at the start of the 3rd.
CP,
I listened to the 1st half and the annoucers where saying that Marvin looks real good.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 11th, 2009
8:04 pm
What up Hawks folks! It’s the end of the 3rd quarter and the score is Hawks-66 and the Pistons-75. Ben Gordon hit a 3 pointer at the buzzer. Good thing this is another glorified scrimmage. Hey hope this doesn’t mean the Hawks will still struggle on the road.
One more quarter to go.
Keep it Hawks!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 11th, 2009
8:07 pm
Ben Gordon is hot. Time for a heat check. Our birds are down by 14 now. The road woes continue even in the preseason.
cp
October 11th, 2009
8:07 pm
They sound like they are playing sloppy out there now. Teague and Hunter sound like they are playing well though.
vava74
October 11th, 2009
8:14 pm
Melvin,
Joe Smith is lean but knows how to use is slight frame on defence. Collins is the physical defender (sheer mass with “feet-placing and butt-pushing know how”).
Of the guys you mentioned, I only really like Gasol and look how long it took him to have a complete game…
Bosh is a finesse player – no defence, little low post moves – who doesn’t make his teams win.
In relation to Aldridge, the jury is still out, however, he is a lot more physical than Frye and McMillan would never play him if he had not shown him that he is, at least, a willing (if not effective) defender.
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
8:22 pm
51 fouls and still 5 and a half left. Guess the new refs are still a bit whistle-happy…
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
8:22 pm
Make that 52…
niremetal
October 11th, 2009
8:23 pm
53…
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
8:30 pm
Nire,
Since you are a Blazer fan (by default,ha), do you think Aldridge a phyiscal player?
Melvin
October 11th, 2009
8:31 pm
Sounds like Othello is making his case to keep his Hawks locker….
Jody
October 11th, 2009
8:35 pm
After listening to tonight’s game:
I really think Jeff Teague will be a contributor for the Hawks this year once he settles down and finds his rhythm within the offense. Eventually, however, the Hawks eventual demise will be their inability to get or score easy baskets.