First impressions
Rookie point guard Jeff Teague showed off his fearless side in the Hawks' preseason opening win over New Orleans.
HAWKSVILLE – You can thank the New Orleans Hornets for that skewed view of the Hawks the morning after their preseason opening romp at Philips Arena.
The Hornets’ refusal to treat the game like anything other than a glorified scrimmage (which, technically, it was) for the wave of good vibrations coming from the Hawks’ locker room after the game.
Aside from a staggeringly ridiculous 66 called fouls from the replacement stripes, this game didn’t resemble a “real” game in any form or fashion. But there were signs. Good first impressions were made by many.
A quick roundup of WWL (what we learned) from the Hawks’ 108-102 win over the Hornets:
PLAYER OF THE GAME: There’s no shame in going with the rookie here. Jeff Teague was asked to show his wares and he didn’t disappoint, scoring when asked and running the team as asked in his first real showing under the lights. Sure, Teague had a few jitters. But what rookie doesn’t on opening night? What I liked is that Teague’s on-court demeanor never seemed to change. He was in attack mode all along, challenging much bigger players at the rim constantly (hence the 7-for-8 showing from the free throw line). “You saw him,” Marvin Williams said. “You’ve seen what he can do in college. That man has thrown 6-9 and 6-10 cats in the basket, so he’s proved he’s not scared to go in the lane and do work. He played well. I thought he played really well.”
DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE GAME: Mario West played his usual sticky defense and Josh Smith had a game-high two blocks and five defensive rebounds in short time. But it was Williams that stuck out the most, recording four steals and using every bit of his length and athleticism to cause problems for the Hornets. We started to see some signs of it last season when he harassed guys like Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James in impressive wins for the Hawks, so his improved defensive presence shouldn’t really be a surprise. The added dimension of an eager wing defender in a 6-9, 245-pound package is what should excite you.
ENERGIZER BUNNY OF THE GAME: As long as West is allowed to put on the uniform and hit the floor he’s going to win top honors here. Honestly, I’ve never seen a guy with this kind of consistent energy in the NBA. I know he’s worn slap out after games where he sees big minutes, as he did against the Hornets. West played 28 minutes, second only to Teague. And he made the most of them, piling up a game-high 11 rebounds to go along with his six points, four fouls, three turnovers, two assists and two steals. No one can accuse West of squandering an opportunity to shine. “It was good to play some extended minutes,” West said. “I just played hard like I always do and was able to get some buckets and make some plays on the defensive end. I didn’t realize I had 11 rebounds until the end of the game. I just went after the ball and did anything I could do to help the team succeed. Our starters did a real nice job setting the tone, and each guy that played was able to contribute.”
MOST STARTLING STATISTIC OF THE GAME: Forget the stripes for a minute and lock in on Smith’s donuts in the 3-point shots attempted and made columns. That’s pretty stuff if you’re one of those people that groan loudly every time he takes a shot outside of two feet. Smith vowed to steer clear of the 3-point arc and at least for one game, he stuck to it. Ha. While I could care less how many shots from deep that he attempts. What I did like was his clear-cut intention to create an inside presence offensively. Smith parked on the block repeatedly during his 21 minutes, and showed off several new moves around the basket that surprised even some of his biggest detractors. Granted, he did hoist a 19-footer on his second shot of the game (someone shouted, “No, No!” when he pulled up). But he drained it, much to the delight of that same fan, who conceded, “Oh, he must have worked on that this summer.”
QUIET STORM AWARD: The player that will benefit most from playing alongside Teague and Jamal Crawford this season has to be Zaza Pachulia. The veteran big man piled up 17 points and five rebounds in a workmanlike showing that should become custom for him this season. Pachulia won’t have to beg anyone for the ball when Crawford and Teague are running the show with the second unit. Crawford hit him with a couple of early passes that seemed to catch Pachulia off guard. Once ZP eased into his groove, though, he went to work and that inside work helped the Hawks hold of the Hornets’ late rally attempt. “I think the entire second unit played well,” Pachulia said. “It’s been the same way in practice and throughout training camp. But it’s early to talk about this. We have so much more time to go just in training camp. So it’s probably smart to wait until after training camp before we make any conclusions.”
QUOTE OF NOTE: “We really do have a number of different weapons up and down the roster. Anybody on this team can hurt you on a given night.” — Smith on the Hawks’ improved depth, which was on full display against the Hornets.
A quick training camp update from the former Hawks files, per my man Rusty Simmons from the San Francisco Chronicle:
Acie Law and Speedy Claxton are listed as Nos. 4-5 on the team’s point-guard depth chart. Both have been plagued by injuries and missed the preseason opener. They got their first action in Game 2’s 118-101 loss to the Lakers and fought for their careers.
They were the lone Warriors in the positive on plus-minus stats. Law scored 16 points on 11-of-12 free-throw shooting, had a 1-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio and was on the court for a plus-6 Golden State swing. Claxton had six points without missing a shot (1-for-1 field-goal shooting and 4-for-4 free-throw shooting) and had four assists with no turnovers in a plus-4 outing.
Law missed the first several days of training camp with a concussion and sprained neck. After being selected No. 11 overall by Atlanta in 2007, he averaged only 12.8 minutes a game.
“This is a make-it-or-break-it season for me,” Law said. “I’ve never gotten a chance, and this is it.”
Claxton has missed 387 games because of injuries or illness in his seven-season pro career. He didn’t play at all in 2000-01 or 2007-08 and played only two games last season.
“I don’t want to admit that it’s over, until it’s really over,” Claxton said. “It’s tough, but I love playing so much. It’s just tough to face the realization that it might be over.”
Anyone still interested in debating the Crawford trade?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
148 comments Add your comment
@danweiner
October 8th, 2009
9:39 am
down with @ajchawks! free @sekousmith01!
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
9:40 am
I listend to the radio broadcast and it was an impressive team performance regardless that it was a preseason game.
HAWKS4LIFE
October 8th, 2009
9:42 am
first
HAWKS4LIFE
October 8th, 2009
9:42 am
nevermind 3rd
HAWKS4LIFE
October 8th, 2009
9:43 am
bench bibby and start Teague!!!!!!!
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
10:01 am
Sekou, I watched some of the GS/LAL game last night. Speedy and Acie played well however, I’m glad we have Crawford and Teague now. Best luck to Speedy and Acie..
Truth-Serum
October 8th, 2009
10:06 am
Excellent post sweet Lou.
Lou Hudson
October 7th, 2009
10:41 pm
Lets not say well Horford is going to score 14 ppg and 12 rbpg this year and that possibility puts him near Cowens and Malone. No, his numbers are mediocre and he compiled them playing against mediocre competition. People constantly say that Horford’s numbers are decent against the weak centers of the league not realizing that if hes got average numbers against weak competition them he must be the average Al or less. Even if he did have a good year. I don’t believe that would put him in Cowens and Malone company.
I count Cartwright as a center not a power forward. He may not have been the scorer but he was a force and you could not leave him unattended. He could finish.That team did have luc longley also.
Im not sure that I am one to believe that star power wins games. That only helps when the refs give you that extra super star step in going to the rack or that you cant breath on him phantom foul going to the line. Other than that. being a super star just sells jerseys.
We have a difference of opinion on whether to build around a center or a point guard. We agree that both are” natural” positions.
Either way I think we agree on more than we disagree. I hope the hawks have a good season and you a good night.
Bubba Crew Chief
October 8th, 2009
10:12 am
Mike Woodson
October 7th, 2009
3:47 pm
Well you guys have given me and my players a hard time with this Bubba Crew stuff. Im going to shake things up this year to win your support. You know how important you are to me…
Koncak..Im mean ZaZa is moving to small forward to help when I do my switching defense you guy like so much. Im going to post bibby up to save time since they are going to back him down anyway. Josh is moving to the point. sh!t he always leads the breaks any way. Ive got Chilldress in three point country. He should get four if he makes shots from Europe. Ive got horford coming of the bench. I figure if he sits next to ZaZa’s hamburger bag he may gain weight. Im going to bench JJ also because you guys are upset that he did not sign his contract. That should teach him, by time I let him off the bench he will sign. NO SIGN NO PLAY!
All and all this should be an exciting year. I look forward to you guys supporting me and the team like you always do….You guys are really sharp. By taking all of the advice you offer here im sure to be………
out of coaching next year.
Thanks guys.
Why is Bob Weiss licking his chops?!Enter your comments here
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
10:14 am
The fact that Pachulia was caught off guard when Crawford passed him the ball, proves that they dont even expect to get touches inside. Time to get the ball to the bigs just a tad bit more Woody.
Seven
October 8th, 2009
10:15 am
Teague is a star in the makin’
shakin down 6′9 defenders
remember these words “Teague rookie of the year”
Hear me clear….ly!
Lou Hudson
October 8th, 2009
10:20 am
Thank you T.S. I posted this yesterday to a gentleman who wanted to present Horford as compared to Cowens. The counter argument to the Horford is undersized is that so was guys like Cowens and Moses. Yea, True. But they were true centers and Horford is a true blue collar power forward. Heres my response:
Lou Hudson.
October 7th, 2009
4:42 pm
I Just pull this(wiki) for conversation, by the way when Horford averages 17.6 points and 13.6 rebounds then I call him a natural center. You make my point about natural ability. I don’t think Horford is to be compared to Dave. Even in Cowens rookie year he was 17ppg and 15 rbpg. Horford was nowhere near those numbers. Neither can he be compared to Moses who was even smaller in his rookie year. Both Cowens and Malone were natural center who thrived and produced great numbers. Its a natural position. Not completely about size.
Horford is a power forward. Please don’t dishonor Cowens and Moses with those comparisons. Hes not close to there league.
NBA career
Despite some critics who felt Cowens was too small to play center, Cowens was selected as the fourth overall pick by the Boston Celtics during the 1970 NBA Draft, largely at the recommendation of former Celtics center Bill Russell.[1] During his rookie year, Cowens averaged 17.0 points per game and 15.0 rebounds per game, and shared the NBA’s Rookie of the Year honors with Portland’s Geoff Petrie. He also led the league in personal fouls that same year.
In 1973, Cowens averaged 20.5 ppg and 16.2 rpg while helping the Celtics to a league best 68-14 record. He was chosen the NBA MVP as well as MVP of the All-Star Game that same season.
During his NBA career, Cowens averaged 17.6 points and 13.6 rebounds per game, was selected to seven All-Star Games, was named to the All-NBA Second Team three times, and was named to the All-NBA Defensive First Team in 1976 and All-NBA Defensive Second Team in 1973 and 1980. He was a member of the Celtics’ 1974 and 1976
Preist Lauderdale
October 8th, 2009
10:20 am
Did not play: Jason Collins (out of shape)
haha, really? Must be nice! Jason “easy money” Collins?
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
10:24 am
Terrell Barron
The fact that ZaZa was caught of guard when Crawford passed him the ball proves that hes turnover prone, very seldom finish’s in the paint and is a highly paid scrubb.
Hawksgirl
October 8th, 2009
10:32 am
Great showing for the first game although it was a preseason game! Happy to see teague played well and smith.
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
10:32 am
Big Nuttz, Zaza makes pocket change by NBA standards. And I like what he brings to the team. Maybe if we’d get them the ball more, he’d be expecting the pass and not turn the ball over. And perhaps even finish at the rim. Time to shake up this 1 guard, 2 guard offense. Zaza is not the problem.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
10:36 am
Terrell Barron the object is to score more than the other guys. If I were Woodson Id recommend keeping the ball away from Koncak so we can increase the percentage of our shots. You cant paint the entire crew of centers(?)based on Zaza’s low finishing rate. That s why Z is such a drag and why he lost his starting job. His man can leave him and double down or clog the paint because there is no fear that Zaza is going to be a scoring weapon. He has always been high in turnovers.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
10:44 am
ZaZa offense or rather the lack there of is indeed a liability when you realize that invariably the later rounds of the playoffs will come down to a half court game. If your center poses no offensive threat, it becomes rather academic to calculate how shut down the teams offense. I will grant that this wont be magnified during the regular season when we play a lot of Horford like power forwards playing center, however if we are serious about going into the higher rounds and competing, this weakness will be isolated and abused repeatedly. Just keeping it real.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
10:50 am
….and no, Zaza does not make pocket change. The free-agent center agreed to terms with the Hawks on a new four-year deal worth an estimated $19 million, according to the AJC. Collins who’s numbers mirror Zaza’s makes a minimum of 500.000 that s chump change. Not a poorly spent 19 million.
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
11:03 am
What centers in the league are offensive threats, besides Howard? Zaza doesn’t have too be an offensive threat. He’s the backup center, for crying out loud. Just get me some rebounds, give some hard fouls, play some pretty good defense, get some garbage buckets, and make your free-throws. Detroit won the title with Ben Wallace at center. Boston got a ring with Kendrick Perkins at center. Hell, New Jersey went to the Finals a few years ago with our own Jason Collins at center. Were they offensive threats?
BBgenie
October 8th, 2009
11:03 am
Just wait Hawks Fans “The best is yet to come” Now can we forget about the C.Paul/D.Williams mistake?? We have a New J.T. in Town. Go hawks!!!!
BBgenie
October 8th, 2009
11:14 am
Big Nuttz
If we didn’t have ZaZa these past two years, Hawks are not in the Playoffs. He has kept the 2nd unit in the mix. His offensive skills are
coming along, he will shine this season. Who do you think gave us the courage to think we could Beat Boston in the playoffs 2yrs ago?????? Get a grip and STH. Stop the Hate!!!!!
Stating the Obvious
October 8th, 2009
11:15 am
Notice how a poster who calls anyone who he disagrees with him as racist just loves to tear down the Hawks only white player. I guess Zaza is part of the bubba crew too.
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
11:18 am
My thoughts from actually watching the game:
Our veteran core players continue to mature together as a team and played well together for the first per-season game. You can see the growth of the team after witnessing them some 4 years ago. However, I’m still not sure whether the apparent readiness of the Hawks and their overall fine performance were just the result of a rusty Hornet team who may have approached this game as an extension of training camp trying to assemble its pieces for the upcoming season run. JJ and Teague were the offensive standouts. Zaza stats look good but he played heavy minutes for a backup and was the recipient of some nice setup assist-plays by Teague and others. With the addition of Teague and Crawford, he must raised is level of finishing plays. His numbers would have been even better had he made more free-throws. Generally speaking, however, free-throwing shooting is still an area for improvement for most of the Hawks players. Josh played with confidence but continues to bark at the officials for some calls against him. He is starting to resemble Rasheed Wallace with his antics at times. I know his passion for winning is just on display but he has to learn to play under control or Joe Smith will get more playing time then he signed-up for. But without question, Josh athleticism can change the outcome of a game as he showed us some tidbits of things to come: block shots, highlight dunks, steals, etc. As Teague started slow but finished strong, Crawford struggled early and never hit his stride. When it was apparent he was struggling offensively, Woody elected not to let him play through-it as he would have done if JJ had struggled. As result, Teague may have been the recipient of more playing time.
One thing to watch is Crawford trying to discover his new role as a 6th man off the bench. Will he be a scorer (as Flip was) or a play maker (setup guy)? Last night he was searching for that right blend. He had 2 nice assist to Zaza but when it came time for him to score to keep the defender honest, he was cold and never found his rhythm. I hope he elects to go with his first instinct and not try to reinvent himself. Woody probably wants him to be a gunner attack dog first and then setup plays for others.
The game was not really as close as the scoreboard indicated. Mario and Hunter played like they belong on the team. Woody granted them minutes as if he expects them to be on the roster. Siler saw about 5 minutes and played respectable for the biggest guy in the building. Just his presence will alter an opponent’s offense. The body size of this guy is what makes him unique. I say he needs to on this team if for no other reason.
As a veteran team, the Hawks now understands that the nuances of winning games depends on the small things during the course of a game such as: that extra rebound, that extra pass, that timely block shot, causing that timely turn-over, etc. Sometimes these things don’t show up on the stat sheet as was the case last night. It was clear that the Hawk played at that style and the Hornets did not. I’ll give a shout-out to Woody and his staff for installing that kind of mentality to the team. Over time, both Crawford and Teague should profit from that brand of team attitude.
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
11:24 am
Co-sign terrell barron.
Hey TB, how’d you like seeing your namesake getting posterized by Teague last night?
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
11:28 am
Truth,
Nice post game analysis. I appreicate how you pointed out that some important aspects of the game doesn’t showup in the stats. Many folks think or refer to the stat sheet for a source of everything.
Matt
October 8th, 2009
11:38 am
“Mario West was his played his usual sticky defense”
This is possible the worst constructed sentence I’ve ever read.
WOw.
Gilley
October 8th, 2009
11:56 am
I listened to the game on the radio 790 AM Steve Holman had me cracking up with his shots at the officials. Hopefully, it doesnt affect us and we overcome and knock down the free throws. I am impressed with the ease and comfort of the first unit. Watching them in practice on NBA TV and listening to them on the game, you can tell we have a veteran squad but we just have to make it consistent throughout the roster. Looking forward to the season. Let’s Go Hawks. Shock the world AGAIN and make it past the second round.
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
11:56 am
Something tells me that construction wasn’t intentional and that Sekou meant to exclude “was his.” He probably wrote the sentence one way initially (eg “Mario West was his usual sticky self on defense”) and then decided to change it to a more straightforward sentence “Mario West played his usual sticky defense”) but forgot to delete the earlier words after he made the change. Happens all the time when you have no one to review your writing but yourself.
Anyway, getting worked up about typos? Come on, now. People with your name should know better than that.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 8th, 2009
11:58 am
Preseason, regular season, post season whatever (thank God it’s no longer off season). Yeah everyone knows the intensity of the game changes based on which season the team is in. I’m thinking, if the Hawks can play with this much intensity during a preseason game, regular season should be a takeoff and post season should be an explosion.
Of the guys trying to make the squad, Mario West and Othello Hunter were the standout guys in this game. Maybe they have the advantage over the other guys because they were a part of the 08-09 squad.
Can’t wait for the next glorified scrimmage and ultimately the real deal on Oct. 28th.
Andy
October 8th, 2009
12:01 pm
Did anyone else see the training camp special of the Hawks on NBATV?
Was anyone else annoyed as much as me by Josh Smith’s antics during practice (he was mic’ed up as well as Woody & Bibby)? Constantly makin’ prop bets with players on shots, singing, dancing, interacting with bystanders… No wonder he gets on the coaching staff’s nerves… If they kid (yes, unfortunately still a kid) would mature and focus during practice, there’s no telling how much more he could bring to the table.
I just hate to see a professional athlete act like he did in that session. Don’t know if he was doing it moreso because he was mic’ed up but I thought it was quite embarrassing for the Hawks organization. Just shut up, focus, LEARN, and play!
Andy
October 8th, 2009
12:02 pm
Also was impressed each time Woddy took a shot (and there were quite a few), he drained the bottom of the net…
Sekou Smith
October 8th, 2009
12:05 pm
Self editing Matt. Sometimes we all get caught up. Muchas gracias for the alert.
Mike
October 8th, 2009
12:07 pm
Sekou,
You know this proves nothing until the season starts right? I’m just saying … I believe it was a great trade. However, to those who didn’t this proves nothing. I beat the patriots on madden everyday … means nothing.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 8th, 2009
12:08 pm
Fingers crossed Jeff Teague doesn’t let mistakes take away that fearlessness. No one’s perfect not even the so called superstars.With continued encouragement, advice, and support from his team mates, he’ll be all good.
So glad it’s no longer offseason!
Mike
October 8th, 2009
12:08 pm
Check this melodic beat out while you edit … and adhere to the title until the midway through the season in reference to the trade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lysRUyYZ8k
Sekou Smith
October 8th, 2009
12:22 pm
I didn’t say it proved anything Mike. Both Acie and Speedy needed new locations so they could jumpstart or restart their careers. I just think the debate about trading two end of the rotation guards for a guy that could be sixth man of the year was a ridiculous. That’s all.
Nothing more.
Dan
October 8th, 2009
12:49 pm
Sekou, what did you think of Siler? I was not impressed. He looked slow and anything but smooth. Still some preseason left, but this guy has a long, long way to go.
Thought Joe Johnson played great last night, too. Hit some sweet shots, including a fade away from the deep corner (in the 2nd quarter, I think). Josh Smith was a beast. I like his ban on 3’s. Plus, when he attacks the rim, only good things happen.
I noticed that the officials were brutal, but so are the regulars. I think Posey should have been hit with the T, though. He just threw Josh Smith down. Just another thug from the ‘07-’08 Celtics.
And, Woody did not kill the starters. Hope they keep this rotation the whole preseason.
darrell starks
October 8th, 2009
12:50 pm
big nuttz you are nuttz no one played as hard as zaza when coming of the bench he gave you more on the boards than any 1 on the team last year.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 8th, 2009
12:52 pm
SEKOU the hawks played well last night.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Daniel
October 8th, 2009
1:02 pm
I keep hearing about Hunter’s game last night. Did he play the swing position or just PF?
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
1:41 pm
Who are you talking about Niremental? Who got posterized by Teague?
wink
October 8th, 2009
1:45 pm
First Impressions:
Coach Woody: played his bench early & often; hope this is not just preseason tinkering. Offense ran thru post early in the game as Josh & Horford got easy buckets; not much Iso Joe…keep it up Coach! Now we need to work on early offense? What’s up with the line up of Siler, Teague, Wilks, Robinson, & West? 4 Guards… Teague was guarding a small forward?
JJ – looked good, some pounding of the ball, as stated less Iso Joe…heck he even got a dunk. Did you see him play a little small forward when Teague was in with Bibby. Crazy move on the big at the top of the key, broke him off and droped it off at the rim!!
Bibby – ran the 1st unit well and tried on defense; scored the ball when open.
Horford – looked to be in good shape as he fan the floor early on. Appears he worked on some basic inside moves, as he & Josh dominated early.
Josh – played under control for the most part, took one long jumper, but no 3 balls…whew! Displayed some offense in the post. Defensively, he played as expected & got some blocks & rebounds.
Teague – played well for he first game. Seems Woody is commited to give him major minutes, as he played alot. He can score at the rim & make free throws…shows no fear of going inside. On this night no outside stroke on display, as he missed all his jump shots. Ended the the game with no more than 2 assist, which is low for the minutes played. Defensively, he was not embarassed by CP3, was able to stay in front of his man.
Crawford – assist game was on & popping with ZaZa; it appeared like we had an inside game. His offense was way off, however, I believe he could have corrected that because his handle is solid; which would have allowed him to get to the rim or draw fouls, instead he fed ZaZa for buckets.
ZaZa – will benefit from having Crawford on the floor. He was able to catch & score the ball in the paint. Showed a good foul line jumper. Rebounding & hustle was solid. Should make a difference for us this year.
Collins & Joe Smith – got DNP from Woody.
West – aka Rio was his usual busting a gut self; led the team in rebounding, but he also got major minutes; on the floor at the close to help secure game. Made a nice pull up shot in the lane…sweet.
That leaves Marvin – who played his usual self. Nothing flashy, made a few open jumpers, played good defense. I think I spotted an Iso Marvin play…drained it. One problem noticed…when making first substitution for starters, Marvin did not appear to have a back up… came in with West ( this is a scoring position)???
Even a Siler & RandMo sighting…fouls on display. Siler is a big dude, played with 4 guards, as our lead started to dwindle down. RandMo looks to be in shape due to weight loss. Siler has to show more, but I don’t believe he was given the right circumstances to make an impack last night.
For one night in preseason, impressed with the team. First team looked good together. Got an early big lead, but I must say it looked like New Orleans took the night off when their starters left the floor. Impact players thereafter were Bobby Brown & Wright (scored at will).
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
1:46 pm
Andy, calm down. It was a freakin walkthrough session. Why bring up Josh, and never bring up Joe and Bibby? They were doing the same thing. I guess you missed that???
jerrywest
October 8th, 2009
1:46 pm
my posts are not going through…
Nice game recap by someone who was there:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/340084-thoughts-on-tonights-game/
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
1:54 pm
tb,
Earl Barron – see the photo at the top of this post.
Mike is back
October 8th, 2009
1:55 pm
Dan, this is just the first preseason game…by the time preseason is over with…we should have a better gauge on Siler. With his limited basketball resume…of course his technique or lack thereof will be clearly visible…but you can teach that…what you can’t teach is HEART and he’s got plenty of that!!
I like what I seen from the Hawks…in the clips I seen the guy that really caught my eye besides JJ, Smoove, Teague, and Mario was Othella Hunter…he brings Mario type intensity…plus he has some offensive skills to boot. If it came down to Mario or Othella I could go either way, however my choice would be Othella…kid got some skills. The more you see him play…the more he catches your eye.
I read the comments about Marvin’s improved defense…he was really starting to accept the challenge of defending against elite in the league before is injury. If this is the year Marvin puts it all to gather…the Hawks will definitely be a formable foe in the EAST…write it down foooooooolks!!!
I’ was a big supporter of Acie and Solo…now its Teague, Siler, and Othella…some how I do not consider that a bad trade-off. You could easily say that if the aforementioned guys had been embrace with the same support as Teague is receiving things would have turned out difference…who knows. In real life…opportunity is hard to come by…you have to make the most out of what ever situation comes your way. I will say this…Teague is the first PG that I have seen that has the potential to help the Hawks finally be able to exorcise CP3 and DWilliams ghosts…plus we still got Marvin…HALLA!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
JohnD
October 8th, 2009
2:12 pm
I was there and the defense was the key. Great “on your man and help” defense by the Hawks and little or no defense from the Hornets.
Will Jeff Teague still find open lanes to the basket in the regular season? Not unless he has more outside ability than he showed last night. The NBA exploits weakness and will back off of him just as they do Josh Smith.
Overall you could not expect much more from the first pre-season game.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 8th, 2009
2:21 pm
Dang, you it’s only preseason commenting folks are killing my buzz from last night’s game. Geesh! Die hard Hawks fans go to preseason games. Sure was a lot of empty seats. Hawks Nation needs to up their game and fill up the arena. Always criticizing the players,how about showing up at the arena. Hey that way other teams’ fans can’t take over the Highlight Factory. Critique that buzz killers.
KMP
October 8th, 2009
2:31 pm
I am not sure how anyone can poke holes at the contribution that Za Za has made to this team. He is a gutsy hard working big who will not back down from the likes of Howard and Garnett. I was at the game last night and noticed that Big Z clearly worked on improving his foot work in the paint as well as his left hand. It also looks like he has worked on his short to mid-range jumper also.
Very impressed with Teague! Should be a great talent off of the bench.
Crawford seemed a bit out of synch, but he’s a vet and will provide us with great scoring off the bench.
The 1st unit looked great, particularly on the defensive end of the floor. Keeping this team together over the past few years is going to pay dividends this year.
Cant wait for them to start lacing them up for real!! Go Hawks!!!
Dan
October 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
Mike is back, I hear ya’. I know it is just one game, and a preseason game at that. There are, however, such things as eye-tests. Some guys just look like they should be good players. I don’t think Siler passes it. Doesn’t mean that he won’t come around. Just means that, for now, he does not look the part. Like I said, that guy has a long ways to go.
Will be interesting to see if he makes any progress.
Agree…Hunter played a good game last night. He was very aggressive. I’m still pulling for Mario West to grab that last roster spot, though. Love watching that guy play.
J.J.M.
October 8th, 2009
3:04 pm
i saw josh smith at lenox mall(he was buying nba2k10) I asked him how he feels about the season he said “I never felt better”
Mike
October 8th, 2009
3:06 pm
Makes sense.
icecold
October 8th, 2009
3:08 pm
I didnt see the game so i just want to say a few things.. since the addition of crawford and teague who are very good with assist. josh smith will and should be all star this year. and his shooting percentage should go up. all the alley hoops thats going to be thrown this year.. he should average at least 22 this year… so i feel good about this year for him.. i trully believe that we are a top 8 team and a championship continder ( even though they wont say so, but they did the same thing the last three years, 1st year, they said we wouldnt make the play offs, then they said we wouldnt do it again since childress is gone, now they sayin well they the best of the worst in the east. SOME EXPERTS HUH.. LOL ) BUT ANY WAY…this year should be a good year, all the starters have gotten better, all the scrubbs have become decent back ups, and our new additions will contribute possitively….. and people sayin its jus a pre season game and bla bla blah, but the thing is..we won it and people showed what they could do. bottom line.. i mean a 30 point lead is a 30 point lead!!! image if the starters stayed in… but thats all i got to say!!! and i think a 60 win season might be reachable!!! watch!!!
icecold
October 8th, 2009
3:10 pm
sorry for the bad grammer!!! lol
icecold
October 8th, 2009
3:13 pm
and i think mike should still be the starter. but after this year. if teague is on the way to being a superstar, then we dont want to stunt his growth. so we can start teague next year, then let bibby come off the bench but still play starters minutes… he knew they drafted teague for a reason. he know the day will one day come where he has to come off the bench. and if it means win a championship, then thats even better!!!
icecold
October 8th, 2009
3:15 pm
and who knows.. we might can have three all stars this year!! its all about coaches voting. and if they deserve it.. they will get it!!!!!
theZaZaguy
October 8th, 2009
3:16 pm
I was at the game. I will say this. The starting five looked like a finely tuned machine. They new exactly what they wanted to do and they made it look easy. One other thing, the whole team seemed to have a certain “I don’t know what” to them. Maybe it’s because they were more relaxed, but something seems different. I think it’s called swagger.
Timbo
October 8th, 2009
3:18 pm
wink, that is where Mo Evans will come in . . .
Mike is back
October 8th, 2009
3:28 pm
Dan, agreed love Mario…pulling for him also…Siler greatest asset is his size and work men like mentally. Remember Mario and Hunter has been through this before…Teague was talking about how nervous he was…well multiply that times ten for a guy like Siler. He’s a project for sure…I think its safe to say who ever gets that last spot will be a project also. I think his attitude and work ethic will land him on some bodies roster this season…I hope it is the Hawks.
SWAT Native
October 8th, 2009
3:34 pm
Sekou, did anyone ever really debate the Crawford trade? I hope Acie is able to catch on with Golden State, though.
Didn’t get to the game last night, but was excited to see the crew on NBATV. Can’t wait for the opener!
One other comment I’ve been wanting to make. A lot of folks say that the Hawks didn’t do anything to displace any of the “Big Three” in the East. Has anyone thought that they may have made enough improvement to make it a “Big Four”? If they can get to 55 wins (and I think they have a good shot), they can go from being 10 games behind the 3rd seed to maybe a couple of games behind, which puts them at another level in the East.
cp
October 8th, 2009
3:57 pm
From watching that scrimmage its clear that Collins is way out of shape. Did they work the guy out before they signed him? If we only sign two more players it looks like it will be Hunter and Mario.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
3:57 pm
terrell barron
October 8th, 2009
11:03 am
THERE ARE MANY CENTERS IN THE NBA WHO ARE OFFENSIVE THREATS, MEANING YOU CANT LEAVE THEM UNATTENDED LIKE YOU CAN WITH zaza, HE SELF DESTRUCTS ON OFFENSE. I AGREE HIS ROLE HAS BEEN DIMINISHED AND HES JUST A SCRUBB OFF THE BENCH. GOOD POINT.
SHOUT OUT TO SEKOU FOR REMOVING MY EARLIER RESPONSE TO THE ZAZA SUPPORTER WHO BROUGHT RACISM INTO THE DISCUSSION OF ZAZA LACK OF TALENT AND. HE HAD MENTIONED THAT ZAZA SHOULD NOT LEAVE BECAUSE HE WAS THE HAWKS ONLY WHITE PLAYER AND I WAS RACIST FOR POINTING OUT THAT Z IS A SCRUBB. ALBEIT A 19 MILLION DOLLAR SCRUBB. SEKOU YOU SHOWED ME YOUR CHARACTER AND THAT WAS DIRTY POOL TO REMOVE MY RESPONSES. SO NOW YOU SENSOR CONTRASTING POINTS OF VIEW AND MICRO CONTROL THIS HATE CELL. THAT WAS VERY UNKIND OF YOU. YOUVE LOST MY RESPECT.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:01 pm
darrell starks
October 8th, 2009
12:50 pm
I dont disagree with you. Zaza worked very hard. He gets an A for effort. Only flip work as hard off the bench. After acknowledging that I will add he’s still a scrub. A hard working scrub. A scrub by any other name is still a scrubb.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:05 pm
KMP
October 8th, 2009
2:31 pm
I hope you are right about Z. I hope he elevates his game and takes his starting position back. I hope hes not satisfied with being a bench scrub and develop so offensive skills. That would make me happy. Right now hes a turnoverwaitingtohappen. His best assest is he will do the dirty work. I would not pay a guy 20million to do a job I can get done for a fourth of that.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:09 pm
Mike is back
October 8th, 2009
1:55 pm
I am so hoping that Siler pans out. he seems to have all the tools and the right attitude. I think in time if he develops we may crack the big thee.
Mike is back
October 8th, 2009
4:10 pm
SWAT Native, excellent observation…if the Hawks narrow the gap significantly between them and the Big 3 in the East…David Stern would personally make sure the Hawks are included in the mix.lol
However, we all know the Hawks will have to improve their pedestrian record on the road before anyone would consider them an elite team. I think blowing out the bottom feeders around the league would be a good start. heh heh
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Olajuwan
October 8th, 2009
4:11 pm
theZaZaguy, I agree that this team has a lot of swagger. They seem to be very confident. More so than last years bunch!
Mike is back
October 8th, 2009
4:13 pm
Big Nuttz, Ditto on Siler.
Lou Hudson
October 8th, 2009
4:14 pm
Ditto on the narrow the gap SWAT and Ditto on the Road Warrior necessity. Extra Ditto on the hope for Siler becoming the force needed in the middle.
KMP
October 8th, 2009
4:17 pm
Big Nuttz – You are entitled to your opinion and at one time I would have even agreed with your assesment of Big Z’s level of talent. However you must admit that Za Za now clearly has a defined roll with this team and he does bring value. He has improved on both ends of the floor and is one of the hardest working players on this team. What he lacks in talent, he clearly makes up with hustle and moxy. Hardly a scrub in my book. I’ve said my peace!
Dezz nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:26 pm
wink/Ken
October 8th, 2009
1:45 pm
Yes. Anybody can see that the Hawks have more tools to work with so Woodson doesnt have to rely on JJ. Duh. Youre negative attitude is the same. Hopefully the weak low post game weve had will improve. It should now that more of the players will have to guard a man, instead of clog the middle and force josh out side. You watch the game and see it through such negative eyes. Woodson hasnt changed! He working on developing the weak link in the team.Those guys in the post cant create their own shots so they need guard to create for them. Really good talent creates its own shot! You are blind and silly.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:28 pm
KMP
October 8th, 2009
4:17 pm
Well stated, I dont disagree with you. I cant rest with your perspective. Good post!
SWAT Native
October 8th, 2009
4:39 pm
Mike is back,
Commissoner Stern has personally assured me that if the Hawks can get within a few games of the 3rd seed he will make sure that Joe Johnson gets the same superstar calls that the other All Stars get…
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
4:43 pm
KMP
October 8th, 2009
4:17 pm
that is I can rest with your perspective
rms
October 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
When will Horford be a lowpost threat such as the Stoudamires and Duncans of the league?? If we can get Horford to be a serious threat down low along with Josh Smith play low and outside then we should be okay. Then need for a true center wont be really necessary.
Tony
October 8th, 2009
5:13 pm
rms I’m with you when will Horford become a threat down low. If that were to happen that would make us even more dangerous. Gasol-Bryant, Garnett-Pierce, Shaq-Lebron. When you have an inside threat and outside threat it will keep teams honest and like rms stated you don’t have to go out and get a guy because you have already developed him in house. Teague is an up and coming star. Like I stated back in August there are only three guys I would keep out of all the guys we had if I had to start a team (based on where they are NOW!!) and that would be: J-Smoove (PF), Marvin (SF), and Teague(PG).
Sekou Smith
October 8th, 2009
6:17 pm
Siler didn’t play long enough for me to see anything about him that I didn’t already know, Dan. He’s going to struggle with the speed of the game like any rookie big man would. His adjustment will be even tougher because he’s even bigger. But I’d want to see him in an expanded role before I write him off as just too slow.
wink
October 8th, 2009
6:21 pm
@Dezz nuttz 4:26pm
Just my observation of last night game per player; forgot to mention Hunter had a good game off the bench; it will be interesting to see who get last spot.
Also forgot Mo Evans will back up Marvin….
As for being negative, blind & silly ….never mind…lol
wink
October 8th, 2009
6:25 pm
Sekou
I agree, Siler was in during mop up time. Needs to play meaningful minutes with a complete 1-5 lineup; played with 4 guards.
ILL-logical
October 8th, 2009
6:32 pm
Silo is a project: he will need at least two years of coaching (see Bynum,Andrew) to fulfill his potential and give the Hawks a legitimate presence in the middle. The question is w/not the current coach and management can or will commit to that. I believe that he has enough potential to warrent that kind of investment.
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
6:41 pm
It’s still mind-boggling to me that some people think that that a potential Bynum would go undrafted…
Dan
October 8th, 2009
6:45 pm
I agree, Sekou. He did not get many minutes and it always takes big guys longer to come around than guards/forwards. He is a project for certain, though. That is easy to see.
Wonder if there is any shot at keeping 14 instead of 13? Will be hard to cut Mario West. It would break my heart to see him get cut loose.
Dan
October 8th, 2009
6:49 pm
But, then….will Siler ever get quality minutes this preseason? Did not understand why it took so long to play him last night. I got the impression that they were as curious as we were to see how he would perform. Guess not…
Was Collins not planning on playing for a team this season? How did he let himself get so out fo shape? Was he hurt?
Sautee
October 8th, 2009
6:53 pm
nire,
Maybe he meant Will Bynum.
Sautee
October 8th, 2009
6:57 pm
Ill-logical,
Forgive my joke at your expense. I’m with you on thinking there’s “something” there with this kid. And yes, at least two years, and in this economy……..well we can hope.
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
7:01 pm
Frankly I don’t understand the negative under-current toward Siler from some so-call real Hawk fans. If I had to pick a project player, Siler is definitely it. As much as we have been yearning for size on this team, we should be jumping for joy at a chance to add this kind of depth. If you don’t already know, guys like him are not a dime a dozen. You question his speed? This guy is over 300 lbs of mass, bulky with long arms. Name me any player with his size that has better agility?
vava74
October 8th, 2009
7:12 pm
People are way to emotional when they talk about sports, its teams and players.
Siler is clearly miles away from being NBA ready.
Just by watching the media day it was evident that he was the player in worst physical shape, with lowest stamina (apart from Collins who I believe did not participate in the exercises) and less prepared technically.
He looks to be a very likeable fellow and it looks like is putting a lot of effort and everyone is rooting for him for many reasons including these ones.
However, one of the main reasons is that everyone would like the Hawks to have a diamond-in-the-rough-physical C in the middle and end up projecting that wishful thinking on the “day-dreaming” which is to think that the Hawks will be the “first” to find such a thing outside the draft and that diamond is Siler.
Let’s face it, right now Siler looks far less NBA ready than RandMo.
His footwork is poor, his FT is atrocious, … he basically lacks fundamentals. His main assets are his body size (which due to lack of conditioning is also – for the moment – hindering him) and the amount of goodwill surrounding him (which is something RandMo has justifiably lost on account of last year’s lack of performance and commitment).
Don’t get me wrong, I am the #1 guy wanting him to be successful. I would love that the Hawks actually pulled that one off (finding the diamond), however, this is far less likely than us cracking the top 3 seed and making it to the Conference finals this year.
MyView
October 8th, 2009
7:14 pm
Mz. Hawkdafied…….I’m lovin the post, and I really agree with you about the Hawks preseason intensity. That consistent intensity is what won so many games for Boston in 07-08, and for Cleveland in 08-09. If the Hawks bring that kind of fire nightly, along with good chemistry, I’ll say it right now, “55-60 wins” this season.
Cleveland did it last year with chemistry and confidence. They had LeBron. We have a better line-up. The Hawks come in with good cohesion, added depth, experience, and playoff experience. This is the season that the Hawks play with a swagger, both home and away.
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
7:26 pm
Samuel ,
For clarification on a post from last blog: that wasn’t Woody hate. That was acknowledging two things:
1) Young players often deal with confidence issues. And it affects their game to a great degree. That’s basically what Joe was saying- your confidence is everything when you’re a young player. The talent can be there all day, but if you’re not confident, you’ll look like a scrub , even if you’re not. Funny how it’s so hard for some people to tell the difference between a scrub and somebody who simply has lost their confidence in themselves.
2) That was also acknowledging that Joe Johnson was being the leader and veteran teammate that he’s supposed to be. Never heard him say to Teague what he did before, and it takes a veteran player to say it. Besides, Woody said he was going to get on Teague’s butt.
Now somebody said it’s not the coach’s job to pat players on the back. I disagree. No, he’s not supposed to coddle them, but he IS supposed to supply some encouragement. That’s part of teaching and coaching, and any idiot can see that. At this juncture, I personally have NO problems with what Woody is doing with Teague. Hell, he’s been so positive about the guy. Anyway, didn’t want you to get the wrong idea about what I was saying. I just felt that the fact that JJ made that statement should confirm what many have thought: a lack of confidence can be all it takes to keep a player from being successful and appear to be lacking in skills…
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
7:33 pm
Vava74 ,
“People are way to emotional when they talk about sports, its teams and players.”
You and Kirk would be perfect roommates….
Dan
October 8th, 2009
7:33 pm
The Truth, you are being a little too dramatic. I don’t think there is a “negative under-current” towards Siler. He is a project. That’s what he is. And, to answer your question….Shaq. That’s the name I come up with.
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
7:33 pm
The Truth,
Just about every 6′11 player in the NBA is significantly more agile than Siler, from what I’ve seen of him. As for people of his height and bulk, there frankly aren’t many – only Bynum and Shaq come to mind. And both, frankly, Bynum is WAY more agile than he is and Shaq is still somewhat more agile than he is.
There’s a reason guys who are built like football linemen rarely make it in the NBA. The NBA game is one of speed first and power second, and having a “big body” in the middle doesn’t provide much of an edge if that big body can’t move around very well – and sometimes it’s counterproductive. That’s been true even with guys taller than Siler, who is “only” 6′11 (just ask the Suns last year or the Cavs, who started making defensive substitutions for Ilgauskas back in ‘06).
The Hawks won’t cut a 6′11 guy with that build if he shows even flashes of quickness and agility. But I haven’t heard anyone – from Sekou to Micah to the people who watched the camp session or last night’s game – call him “agile.” Big and strong, yes. Agile? You are honestly the first person I’ve seen use that word to describe him. The other reports have been overwhelmingly to the contrary.
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
7:37 pm
And once again, I join all of those people who say that I’d rather us keep him than not. But I don’t think we should use a 15th roster spot on any training camp invitee, and I don’t think we should use a roster spot at all on him unless he shows signs that he will eventually be something other than an immovable mass.
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
7:46 pm
A couple of observations on Jeff Teague. I think the jitters got to Teague’s jumper. But notice that he has no fear going to the basket, and knows that when the “J” ain’t falling, it’s time to drive. Good decision.
Also, sometimes the game doesn’t call for a pile of assists from the point guard. Sometimes it calls for the point guard to score. Ask Tony Parker. Ask Chris Paul. Ask Steve Nash (though I think he’d go into withdrawal if he didn’t get at least 7 assists in a game, dude really loves to pass). And guess what? If dude is not turning the ball over, and he’s scoring well, then who cares if he only gets a couple of dimes?
On the flip side, Teague’s attack style and excellent free throw shooting do not automatically translate into big minutes in his first season. He’s shown he has the skills, but Mike Bibby is still an old hand at this, and Teague will have to earn his minutes. I look for him to force his way into significant minutes as the season wears on. In the meantime, the Hawks are going to do what it takes to win. If Teague playing big minutes (whatever your definition of that is) helps that, then so be it. If not, then so be it.
And he’s going to make mistakes. Let’s not forget that.
Dezz Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
7:53 pm
wink/ken
October 8th, 2009
6:21 pm
My impression of your play analysis was a little more than you trying to justify your misguided view of Woodson. Its funny to me how so much in dept analysis in going on base upon so mean less a game. This is just a scrimmage. The Whole thing will change when we are play against starters who are not working on particular points of their game. Then we will see about all those rookie of the year projections and whose game has improved and whose hasn’t.
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
7:01 pm
Thanks for the positive and objective feed on Siler. I must agree. If we must have an experiment hes that man. From the film I saw he seems agile enough. I think he may be as mobile a Zaza but not as experienced.
Dezz Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
8:03 pm
rms
October 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
Tony
October 8th, 2009
5:13 pm
I can always tell true basketballers are kicking it. Great post and key insights.
Yes, If Horford could create his own shot and did not need to be set up that would change the dynamics of the post for the hawks. At that point they’d have to keep a body on him at all times. Last year he clearly had problems getting off a shot when the other teams went big and he doesn’t have the tools to have the offense run threw him at any point. Dont get me wrong. Horford is a blue collar Pf/C. When hes at center his force and impact is rather limited for what you need to spread the defense, open the lanes and deny the paint. Great vision guys.
Big Nuttz
October 8th, 2009
8:12 pm
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
7:46 pm
Good feed but the question on my mind is how will he respond to the pressure of the opposition and the demands of the team when the game is real?!?! Thanks for the break down.
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
8:30 pm
It’s funny how some Hawks fans complaining about Joe but some analysis and other team fans appreciate the guy. Check out this Q&A from Hoopsworld…
“”new york has no chance of getting james next season or any of the big 3 free agents walshe is doing a worse job then isiah
Jason Fleming:
Truth be told, no one else has a chance either, but I like what Walsh is doing. He has a plan and they will come out of it with a couple players who will make this team good. Don’t look for Wade, LeBron, or Bosh – none of them will give up money to leave their current team, which they would have to do to sign with New York (and remember, NY has nothing to offer in a sign and trade). Instead, concentrate on Joe Johnson…he’ll make you a happy Knick fan.”"
Parser
October 8th, 2009
8:35 pm
Can anyone diagram this sentence for me? Anybody?
“Its funny to me how so much in dept analysis in going on base upon so mean less a game.”
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
8:41 pm
Ok, I found an excerise that would help ZaZa with his vertical leaping abilities…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDrhQj_AHu4
Samuel
October 8th, 2009
8:56 pm
Ray,
Like I said, it was bound to surface. I find it hard to believe that that’s the only thing JJ said the whole night. Oh wait, maybe not. He is a wasted mic, isn’t he.
It just bothers me that Woody is “still on trial” here, that’s all. From the GM to the beat writer to the resident bloggers. He still get’s no respect. Can’t we get through at least one article or blog without questioning the HC?
That’s cool.
Woody=COY
Samuel
October 8th, 2009
9:05 pm
On Siler:
I’m not saying he’s Shaq but he’s the only player we got with the potential to battle the likes of Shaq, Bynum and Howard. Can yall name anybody else. certainly not Horford. I can see him as a legitimate NBA center in a year or two. Again, you can’t teach 7′ 300+.
Again, what the hell is the use in keeping Mario “freekn” West. So what he plays like a man possessed for 1:50 a game. You would too if you knew that’s all the time you were ever going to see of the court. He’s still a wasted roster spot. He’s never gonna develop into anything more.
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
9:24 pm
Dan
Didn’t mean to sound dramatic as I was in a rush to get that comment out; At least you have an understanding of my point, I agree Shaq is in that category (of plus 300 lbs) and is more agile then Siler. But Shaq comes with a 20M per year price tag. I’ve already conceded the man is a project and need some work. If I am getting that kind of reaction from folks who have not physically seen him then maybe I did strike a chord. Even Sekou who have seen him far more then any of us have not written him off yet. Just saying …
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
9:31 pm
Deez Nutz ,
I think Teague will be fine. He has the support of his coaches and teammates, and he clearly has the talent. Not only that, but he will not be forced into “real” pressure unless (God forbid) Bibby and/or Crawford are injured.
Dub C
October 8th, 2009
9:35 pm
Samual, I completely agree with you on Mario West. I like the dude and he plays non-stop, but other than hustle, he gives us nothing else.
Dub C
October 8th, 2009
9:36 pm
My bad on the mispelling of your name, Samuel.
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
9:36 pm
Samuel ,
I hear what you’re saying, but I think he gets more respect than you think. The players seem to respect him and that’s more important than most things. Besides, he has the support of one of the most massive multiple personalities I’ve ever seen on this blog.
No seriously, I think it will be fine.
As to Siler, I don’t know what all the noise is about agility.
I mean really , if that was THAT big an issue, then why are Mikki Moore, Brendan Haywood, Roy Hibbert, Patrick O’Bryant, Aaron Gray, last year’s version of Randolph Morris, “Big Country” Reeves, Oliver Miller, and Jahidi White on record as NBA players?
Oops, I’m sorry. Have I added to the “emotional” factor in this blog?
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
9:49 pm
You’ve got me convinced, Ray. Now that I see that Siler could be the next Big Country, we’d be crazy not to sign him
Mr Defense - mr big shot
October 8th, 2009
9:52 pm
Where are the Crawford comments- crirp chirp chirp
Mr Defense - mr big shot
October 8th, 2009
9:53 pm
third highest player – cannot hide
Drewscrilla
October 8th, 2009
9:54 pm
Yeah the hawks look good but its PRESEASON cant wait until 10/28 and to see if jj signs with the hawks this summer.Some people called jj greedy and some said get the h@ll out and some said every one calm down its a bizzness and dont blame him for not signing.I say wheres your heart JJ yeah i know thats how every body does it but come on people try to act like the NBA is a regular business, players make millions and i thought basketball was fun sometimes players act like they are selling drugs or somthing trying to get the best deal they can get.Its not like he has been playing for $10.00 an hour.How about winning with a team or Franchise that has never won a thing.Now that would be something. Its not like he is really under paid like a school teacher.It just seemed like a great offer by the hawks.If he leaves the hawks i am going to root for him to fail oh yeah he did make the right call for himself and thats all that matters right.
Mr Defense - mr big shot
October 8th, 2009
9:55 pm
Sekou Smith,
blocked my response to his
Acie, Speedy blog
wonder why
rms
October 8th, 2009
10:00 pm
I was thinking to myself, with all this rookie talk about the possible impact Teague could have on this team I couldnt help but wonder what the Denver coaches, players and even fans thought about Ty Lawson-I guy I thought for sure we had while watching the draft this past summer. There doesnt seem to be a whole lotta hoopla about him because they already got Chauncey Billups and AC backing him up. Anyways they are eyeing a championship right now and dont intend on letting a rookie mess that up for them no matter how much potential he has. The intent is to bring Ty Lawson along slowly so he is listed 3rd on the point guard depth chart. So we might not see a lot of him to sorta compare the #1 and #2 PG taken in the draft this season. So if Teague wants to steal the spotlight its his for the taking. Just thought maybe you guys wanna keep and eye on what what other PG’s in their respective teams are doing and which team got the better guard!!
Drewscrilla
October 8th, 2009
10:00 pm
Im not worried about Crawford he willdo what he can to help win
rms
October 8th, 2009
10:03 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot about Ricky Rubio. But he dont count so never mind him. I think the other guy taken is more of a 2 guard so never mind that #1 and #2 guard statement…..
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
10:22 pm
If you’re getting “Big Country” numbers from your undrafted, 14th or 15th roster spot guy, you’re doing pretty good….nobody said he had to be a starter…
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
10:25 pm
Ok, I found an excerise that would help ZaZa with his vertical leaping abilities…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDrhQj_AHu4
big nutzz
October 8th, 2009
10:25 pm
enter your comments here
icecold
October 8th, 2009
10:27 pm
u know i use to think marvin was the week link to this starting five!! but now im startin to see that there is no weak link, its turning out perfectly…
Big Ray
October 8th, 2009
10:32 pm
Strange how when one player performs well in the preseason, it’s counted as “a meaningless game”, but when another doesn’t produce, it’s a big deal…
Melvin
October 8th, 2009
10:38 pm
Big Ray, Nice post at 10:32
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
10:50 pm
Ray
I noticed the same thing. Could we have some undercover spies here that are just intent on spreading propaganda? Maybe we should start coding these conversations. For example, If “I say Josh sucks”, that’s coded for “Josh is a beast”
niremetal
October 8th, 2009
10:55 pm
Ray,
Don’t disagree. Except no one is sure that Siler can even turn into Big Country. We’re talking about him having the potential to be Big Country. In other words, we’re hoping that maybe, eventually, he’ll turn into a slow-footed big man who had three years putting up slightly above-average numbers on an absolutely atrocious team.
If we were confident Siler could be Big Country, heck yeah – keep the man. But I don’t think anyone here seriously believes that Siler is at that level yet. We’re hoping that he can maybe, eventually develop into a Big Country, or one of the even less-accomplished big men you mentioned. On that basis, why not give the roster spot to Mario West? Frankly, I think there’s a better chance that he becomes Bruce Bowen than that Siler becomes Bryant Reeves – and I’ll take a potential Bowen over a potential Big Country (or even a potential Haywood) every day.
Dan
October 8th, 2009
10:57 pm
The Truth,
I just did not like what I saw last night from Siler. Probably was expecting too much, though. We’ll see what he does from here. I just wonder how much of a chance he will get. Did not understand why it took so long to put him in the game last night.
I thought minutes would be there for Siler. Our core group does not need to get as many minutes as in years past. Would like to see Siler get some cracks in against other teams’ starters.
Othello Hunter looked tough last night. NOt sure if there is a plce for him on the team or not, but he looked better than I have ever seen him.
Love that the Hawks are back on the floor. Good to have a game to talk about.
The Truth
October 8th, 2009
11:34 pm
Dan
I kept asking the same thing. When is Woody going to put Siler in the game? I thought a better time would have been in the 3rd quarter when the Hawks had the largest lead. I agree with Sekou, that game was not the best barometer to tell about Siler at the 5 min mark in the 4th playing with all scrubs. Even Teague admitted he had the butter-flies when he first came in the game. As stated previously I bet Siler nerviness was 10 times worst. To be honest, given all the hype, I wasn’t that impressed with Teague at first as he stated slow. But the more he played the better he got.
I totally agree it is refreshing to a have a discussion about a real game instead of the other Stuff (with a capital “S”).
tommy
October 8th, 2009
11:47 pm
I was most impressed with Hunter. If there is only one spot available it should be his. I also was glad to see Smoove fitting nicely into a role that fits his game and Zaza had a good night.
Samuel
October 9th, 2009
12:06 am
R Hibbert is the slowest most uncoordinated dude i’ve seen in a long time but he had 8 blocked shots against Denver last night.
Samuel
October 9th, 2009
12:22 am
Bruce Bowen could shoot the ball.
Ramon
October 9th, 2009
12:50 am
I think people will get their heart broken when they start trying to make Siler something he isn’t. Of course we know he’s not agile that’s why he is in the Hawks camp. If he had a polished game and the agility of a younger Shaq, he would’ve been in the top 10 selected, not undrafted. But I still believe in a half court game, for 5-7 minutes he can guard the basket in a good way. Also think about a small point guard’s mindset when they see Siler under the basket. I don’t think they’ll just skip to the lane like they have done for the last 9 seasons whenever the reserves were in. Its clear that Morris won’t play defense, and Collins won’t be able to go always. So I say take a chance on Siler. I’d even consider trading Morris if you could find someone just to send back the cash for his contract.
Ramon
October 9th, 2009
12:51 am
Remember if this is the WORST Siler can be (practice and training will increase skills), he is still BETTER than majority of the centers that have put on a Hawks jersey in a back up role since Kevin Willis.
Big Ray
October 9th, 2009
1:55 am
I ain’t worried about it. If Siler sticks, then he does. If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t. Dude is HUGE, as Sekou is always quick to say. He can get better. I hope he does, for his sake.
As for Othello Hunter, he’s going to make somebody’s squad if he doesn’t make ours. All NBA teams are looking at each other’s training camp invitees when considering the “end of the bench” and “project” types. Hunter will probably develop into somebody’s version of Udonis Haslem/Leon Powe, or perhaps a mix thereof. Or something like that….
vava74
October 9th, 2009
3:34 am
Have you checked out Siler’s stats at Augusta against less than stellar opposition?
Is everyone day-dreaming and enthralled in this Cinderella story?
I hate to spoil your dream but even on the Cinderella story magic powers were needed…
PDubATL
October 9th, 2009
8:50 am
vava74, 16 points, 8 boards and 2.5 blocks per game is a pretty decent stat line. I’ll grant you that he was up against D2 competition most of the time(except when Augusta St almost beat UGA), but those are still good stats.
Daniel
October 9th, 2009
8:51 am
I understand everyone’s love of a guy who is 7′ and 300lbs. But, seriously we are only going to take one, maybe two, of the unsigned players. With Randolph, unfortunately, making the team, I really can’t see us wasting that spot on another developing big man who will wear a suit most nights. We are thin at the swing position and/or 3rd true point. I seriously doubt any team is going to give Siler a two year deal. So, let him get seasoned for a year, play in developmental league and take another look next year.
Daniel
October 9th, 2009
8:53 am
PDub- you said it when you said those are decent (not great) numbers against D2 players who all give at least 50lbs and 5″ to him. Are RandMo’s 6 fouls that different from Siler’s? If we didn’t have Randolph under contract you go with Siler, but unfortunately that is not the case.
Melvin
October 9th, 2009
9:07 am
Daniel,
What’s the big deal if we keep Siler as the 14th man (assuming we have that many on the roster). He will be a low investment with possible high reward. We could send him to the D-League to get more experience and if he show good improvement we will still own his rights. However, if we elect to waive him and he improve, who to say that he will be willing to sign with the Hawks again in the future. If the organization believe that he’s a true project then I say we keep him and try to develop him.
Also, I don’t see why so many have such a the love affair with Hunter. The dude is an undersize PF and you can find a player like him with better skills a dime a dozen. I say we can sign Stackhouse and Siler for the 13th and 14th spot.
One last thing, many have dogged Randmo for being a waste of roster spot for various reason but what about Collins? We signed him for his vet savvy and dude can’t even get in shape. At least, Randmo came to camp in shape….
wordsmithtom
October 9th, 2009
9:11 am
Interesting article from Augusta paper on Siler.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2009/10/08/nba_551084.shtml
Check the pix. # 7 shows him defending Posey: gives you a look at his size. Wingspan and leg spread AWESOME. Not overweight by any means.
Since #14-15 rarely play anyway, especially on a Woody team, why not roll the dice for a developmental player? Rand Mo may have woken up and will give us what we need, but when I buy hogs: I buys the biggest, leanest one I can find and fatt’n him up. Siler obviously is NOT ready. Still, he has OUTSIDE potential. Even Woody said he had a chance if he keeps working.
That’s what a farm system is for. NBA doesn’t have one…except for colleges, and college players don’t stay 4 years any more.
PDubATL
October 9th, 2009
9:13 am
Daniel, technically no, but if you recall last year when Solo would have to play spot minutes against Shaq and/or Dwight he was getting tossed around and gave up and-1s instead of 2 free throws. With RandMo’s recent weight loss he’s starting to look more like a Solo and less like a Siler.
On the offensive side, while Siler is no scoring juggernaut, the Hornets were double-teaming him at the end of the fourth. None of our bigs recently have warranted that sort of coverage. If teams do double him in the limited minuted he’d play, that could free up someone on the 2nd team (i.e. Teague or Jamal) to wreak some havoc.
If I were Sund, I’d talk to the ASG and get them to use the cash they got as part of the David Andersen trade to buy out Randolph and free up that roster spot. But I’m not so we’re probably stuck with him…
Daniel
October 9th, 2009
9:17 am
Melvin- That 14th spot on the roster needs to stay open for a mid season move to improve the team, much like Clevland did with Joe Smith. That is just how good NBA teams work. I agree he is more likely to get more out of the D-league than wearing a suit for the Hawks. Therefore, there is no need to give him an NBA contract. Players play in the D-league without them the majority of the time. We are really overblowing this idea that as soon as the Hawks release him, he will be snatched up by another team.
As for Collins, I am not saying he is some great player, but he has never been known as a lazy guy. I will give him a pass on the first pre-season game, but if it continues I will worry.
RandMo has played his entire career being out of shape, a lazy worker, and an underachiever. Only, now in his final contract year does he lose weight over the summer. Big difference there. Sorry Randolph is garbage. And he IS the reason that Siler won’t make the team.
You are right about Hunter, but he plays a position of need for the Hawks, but if we can find someone else at the SF position at the end of camp then so be it. Stackhouse has been reported to not be interested in the Hawks. He is looking at a San Antonio, Clevland, Boston. Just saying… Nice idea but it is not going to work.
niremetal
October 9th, 2009
9:39 am
On the offensive side, while Siler is no scoring juggernaut, the Hornets were double-teaming him at the end of the fourth. None of our bigs recently have warranted that sort of coverage.
Uh…Horford gets doubled on the block almost every time he gets the ball there (which isn’t often, mind).
niremetal
October 9th, 2009
9:41 am
And yeah – I have never seen anything at all indicating that Stackhouse has any interest whatsoever in signing with the Hawks. Again, this isn’t NBA Live. The player has to be interested in the team, not just the team in the player.
Big Nuttz
October 9th, 2009
9:50 am
Damn Melvin! That helped my vertical leap! I owe you one. Thanks for that!
Parser/non mental
October 8th, 2009
8:35 pm
Sure I can help with that. Its not complicated(for most people).
“Its funny to me how so much in-dept analysis in going on base upon so meaniless a game.”
* It would be more appropriate to use “structure” rather than “diagram”. Diagram refers to the physical where structure can refer to order. No one diagrams a sentence, but one can structure a sentence.
Good luck with your English.
* Link
* Report this comment
Daniel
October 9th, 2009
9:54 am
Pdub- I totally agree with your last post, but as you say, we appear to be stuck with Randolph. Therefore no Siler, that is just the reality. I am working on my acceptance of the issue.
Melvin
October 9th, 2009
10:05 am
If my memory serve me correct, I recall Stackhouse saying that he did have an interest in the Hawks but the feeling wasn’t mutual in the interview with Sekou last month (I can’t find the article on my work computer, block site).
Melvin
October 9th, 2009
10:11 am
Sounds like the Big Fella has a chance to make this team. Besides, do the Hawks really want to pay Mario a million to ride the pine???
“He’s a having a pretty good camp,” Atlanta coach Mike Woodson said. “I like him because of his size, but he’s not ready yet. We’ve just got to continue to work with him.
“Does he have a shot of making the team? If he continues to work while he’s here, he’ll have a shot at it.”
niremetal
October 9th, 2009
10:23 am
Melvin,
I stand corrected, although he doesn’t exactly sound like he’s chomping at the bit to sign here. Here is the segment of that Q&A:
Sekou: These are lean economic times for NBA teams and players. Does that make it tougher for veteran free agents like yourself to find the right fit?
Stackhouse: There are probably a handful of teams that make sense for me. Everybody’s cutting back now, so I really don’t know what’s going to happen. But I have a couple weeks before training camp starts, and I’m just making sure I do whatever it takes to get ready for whatever.
Sekou: You mentioned a handful of teams that make sense for you. Are the Hawks one of those teams?
Stackhouse: Sure. And we’ve had a little dialogue with them. They have some interest, but I know they have some other things they’re looking at as well. I have a relationship with [Hawks GM] Rick [Sund] from back in our days in Detroit, and I’m pretty sure he’ll shoot straight with me one way or the other, so we’ll see what happens.
bigdave
October 9th, 2009
11:37 am
Samuel…
isnt he (Hibbert) though but the boy has potential… they were actually going up strong but he was throwing it… not to mention he had a pretty good rookie campaign…
those on Josh Smith’s camp conduct…
he’s a 23-24 yr old… Lebron is just as big of a goof… but he’s Lebron so nobody complains… Josh is who he is. keep in mind though, while we’re trying to drive him out of town based on personality traits, he is nowhere near a finished product as a professional. in time maturity sets in every aspect of his game comes together due to a renewed focus. im patient with Josh for the simple fact that even at this stage of his career he has done very well, but there is a high ceiling for growth.
Big Nuttz
October 9th, 2009
2:19 pm
Melvin
October 9th, 2009
10:11 am
Thanks again for the vertical leap link!
I remember when Bynum was an experiment with the lakers who saw his value and brought in specialist to get him up to NBA level realizing the value of what he brings to the table and the potential of what that means to a franchise. Siler upside minus his down side is more desirous than many of the guys just hoping for a roster spot. Woodson likes him but makes it clear he hasn’t made the team. He also makes it clear that he might if he continues to work hard.
Good reporting.