A Blog-Z state of mind?
NEW HAWKS GUARD JAMAL CRAWFORD HAS BEEN EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS ADVERTISED IN TRAINING CAMP, AND THEN SOME. PLUS, BLOG-Z SPEAKS!
Jamal Crawford's already stirred things up in practice. Hawks fans should expect more of the same all season long from the gifted scorer and passer.
HAWKSVILLE – We’re a week into training camp and one thing is clear, this Hawks team set to take the floor this season is a much improved bunch from the one that left the floor in that series against Cleveland to end last season.
How much better is still up for debate.
But it’s clear that this team has a chance to get back to where it finished last year and perhaps beyond, based on the early vibes emanating from the Hawks’ practice court.
“This is by far the best group and the best first week of camp we’ve had in my time here,” one keen observer noted after Sunday’s practice. “Not since Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock have we had a group like this that could get it from the first guy through 12.”
Watching Jamal Crawford explode the way he did in Sunday’s scrimmage was the first real indicator of just how deep and potentially explosive this team could be. He didn’t just attack the Blue team (starters and a couple reserves), he went directly at Joe Johnson (haven’t seen anyone do that before now either) with the scrimmage on the line and finished (Joe had an open look from the corner that could have won it for the Blue team but his jumper didn’t fall). While it was a bit of a shock to the system of those that have been watching the Hawks the past few years, Crawford didn’t seem particularly fazed by his performance. I mean, he’s not cocky in the least bit but the man knows he’s good. He knows he can score at will, regardless of who is trying to guard him. I think everyone else knows it now.
“With Jamal and Jeff Teague, we have a dynamic we haven’t had since I’ve been here,” said Hawks forward Josh Smith. “We’re bringing two guards off the bench that can score every bit as good as our starting guards. That’s a nasty group right there, when you can put your backup guards in and still keep the pressure on. If we do it right, we’re going to be coming at you from so many different angles that you’re going to need a while to figure out where it’s coming from. And hopefully by then, we’ll have shifted into another gear on you and made you think it all over again. It’s going to be fun to see us in action once we get this thing cranked up.”
Everyone seems to have an opinion. So what better time to tap our friendly neighborhood Hater of the Millennium for his take on all things Hawks? Blog-Z has been in attendance for all of the portions of camp outsiders have been allowed to view (and thanks to the Mad VP and the media alert being on red, we haven’t seen as much as we’re used to). So we asked him for some quick thoughts on camp and what it’s looked like from his perspective.
Hawks Blog: So you saw Jamal Crawford get loose Sunday, how good was he?
Blog Z: He was crazy good. But the thing he and Jeff Teague bring that no one is talking is about is that they push JJ and Mike Bibby to play at a higher level, even in practice. Bibby’s been as good as anyone in training camp. He’s shooting lights out. He’s defending and finding guys in stride and he’s leading the team the way you’d expect from a seasoned veteran. But yeah, even the hater in me can’t deny that these guards are going to make for an interesting mix. They’re just so explosive on the offensive end. And Crawford’s best and probably most underrated asset is that he’s a much more complete player than he gets credit for. It’s scary how good he is when you consider all the mess he’s taken over the years for being on crappy teams.
HB: So maybe you’re more excited about this team than you were earlier in the summer, when you said you didn’t see any major improvements and that this team has no chance of shaking up the top three of the Eastern Conference?
BZ: And maybe you’re more interested in writing scripts than you are reporting what someone actually said. Read my lips player, I remain committed to the facts. The Hawks didn’t go crazy this summer and find that missing piece to the championship puzzle. Don’t get ahead of yourself. Crawford is a monster addition. he’s going to be great in this town, on this team and in the role they have slotted for him. But he alone isn’t the answer to the bigger question of whether or not this team (as presently constituted) is capable of challenging for a top three spot. I say no.
HB: Will you at least admit that this team has a chance to shock some people this season?
BZ: I won’t admit to anything. And these “people” you’re talking about, where might they be? I saw what the national experts had to say about the Hawks this season. They don’t seem particularly convinced that this team is going to shock the world. Now one of my guys, you all know him as RA, took offense to what the experts had to say. He sent me this email Sunday:
Knocking off Miami in seven games last year wasn't enough for Josh Smith and the Hawks to convince the national pundits that they are for real.
Thanks for showing what the rest of the sports writing universe has to say about our Hawks, but in reading their…appraisals, I noticed several glaring omissions:
Ian Thomsen mentions implies that Hawks ownership is cheap and while he does add that the moves that they’ve made this offseason were all “winning moves” he does not fully explore the impact that those moves can make. For example, what is it going to mean for this team to have Crawford, who can come in and spell Joe Johnson while at the same time being able get his own shot from anywhere and set up his teammates. What is it going to mean to have Joe Smith’s experience and physical play on the roster, and Collins who gives the Hawks another big body off the bench that they just didn’t have before? I feel like those additions were simply dismissed as bargain basement pickups representing an unwillingness (or inability) of the Hawks brass to go out and get front line talent. I feel that his assessment is incomplete, at best.
As for A.J. Adande’s assertions that the Hawks don’t have star power, I beg to differ. Joe Johnson has become a perennial all-star, Mike Bibby was making his bones in the Western Conference finals when Howard was cutting his wisdom teeth, and Josh Smith is pound for pound one of the most exciting players in the game. Now, none of the aforementioned have any championships, but last time I checked neither did [Dwight] Howard or King James. Also, if the Detroit Pistons of the early 90’s taught us anything, it’s that you don’t have to have a “Superstar.” You just need depth, talent, and proper leadership. I feel that Mr. Adande is ignoring the fact that at least two of these factors, possibly three, are in place.
Of all the experts that you cited, I feel that [Yahoo! Sports' Marc] Spears was the most fair. Of course, I think that he should have reserved his statement about the Hawks not finishing strong in the playoffs. The Hawks had three starters who were either out or hobbled in the second round vs. Cleveland. To be honest, they made a much better showing in games three and four than I ever would have expected. Under the circumstances of what they were dealing with, I don’t know many teams that could have done better and very few that might have done as well.
Like I said, I don’t think that the journalism for Atlanta has been fair or balanced, but I do hope that other teams take it seriously because it would be nice to sneak up on a few teams, although I doubt very seriously that that’s going to happen…
HB: Man, you’re a complete hater. You’ve even got RA hating on the national cats. I know Michigan got popped Saturday by Michigan State an all, but can’t you let go of your personal biases long enough to talk Hawks? I mean, surely you’ve seen some things in Hawks’ training camp that please you?
BZ: You would bring up the Michigan game (ya little punk). I ought to slap the … what was the question again?
HB: Some things that please you so far?
BZ: I didn’t say this group wasn’t impressive. It’s clear they’ve got a core group of about 10 players capable of competing against anyone on a given night. They had an adequate group last year and they added a couple of good players to that mix. But I’m not ready to anoint them or anything. I’m just taking a wait and see approach to this season, like most wise observers would. A good first week of training camp has never won anything. In fact, there isn’t much this team can show me in the preseason that will sway me one way or the other. I need to see what they at the end of this season and in the playoffs. That’s when they can prove to me that they’re moving into that upper echelon. Pump your brakes son. Building all these off the wall expectations and feeding all this hype is what will land a team in the hole if things don’t start right once the real games begin.
HB: Well, what about the guys trying to snag that final roster spot. Has anyone caught your eye?
BZ: I could make a reasonable case for just about every single guy. Othello Hunter’s activity and potential make him an enticing candidate. Same goes for Frank Robinson. With Mario West I know what I’m getting, and it’s usually all good because his motor revs at all times. Courtney Sims has the size and skill set you want in a big but I don’t know if he makes sense either. Aaron Miles has probably been the most surprising guy of the bunch for me, only because I didn’t realize he was this good. And what you get in experience with Mike Wilks and Juan Dixon makes up for their lack of ideal size and bulk at the position [point guard]. The one guy that keeps coming back into my head is the big boy, Garret Siler. He’s going to find a spot somewhere, maybe not this year but eventually, and you’d hate to have him now and let him go only to see him show up a year or two now helping some other team. And with all that said, there might be a better player and a better fit that falls through the training camp crack elsewhere. In any respect, this is a good problem to have, watching eight guys scrap it out for one roster spot. Another benefit of having a quality group like this is that if you need a replacement player throughout the season for any reason, you can reach back and grab one of these guys that showed well during training camp.
HB: For some super hater, you’re not nearly as nasty as you’ve been in the past. What’s with nice routine?
BZ: There’s nothing nice going on here partner. I’m just a little under the weather right now. All this rain has me in the dumps. But I’ll be back and hating better than ever before too long.
HB: So we can hit you up in a few weeks for some post training camp assessments?
BZ: There you go making stuff up again. I didn’t say all that chump. Lose my number!
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289 comments Add your comment
dstdeelite
October 5th, 2009
9:45 am
Am I first?
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
9:45 am
I heard from Knics fans how great Crawford could be if he isn’t the focus of the offense, but I didn’t know Teague could be so good this quickly.
dstdeelite
October 5th, 2009
9:56 am
All I can say is I’m excited about the upcoming season. I can’t wait to see Jamal in a Hawk’s uniform. I agree that he can possibly push JJ to the next level. Of all the negative things I’ve heard about JC, I truly believe that he is hungry to make the playoffs. Let’s get this thing cracking already!! Go Hawks!!
Mike N.
October 5th, 2009
10:07 am
It will be fun to watch Hawks training camp tomorrow on NBA TV. Sekou…we have heard so much about how the backcourt is doing and how Josh and Al are becoming beast down low. But havent heard much about Marvin the first week of camp?? Is he getting lost in the mix or is he being aggressive on the offensive end now. Have you seen or heard major improvement out of him?
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
10:25 am
Marvin’s looked great Mike. Woody said something about him in a notebook from over the weekend. He’s been really good. He was really good in the Sunday scrimmage.
Mike is back
October 5th, 2009
10:31 am
BZ and HB, GREAT STUFF!!
Thanks, for the plug on Siler…I think he will turn up on some body’s roster…everyone loves a workhorse…especially a Big workhorse…they are hard to find.
Given your assessment…I think with a guy like Siler you lock him down to a contract even if you have to expand to 14 men roster. Send him to D League let him play or dress him out in street clothes and let him interact with the asst. coaches and vet Bigs while he’s watching the game…this could help accelerate his growth…he could be ready to go in a emergency backup role when the playoff rolls around…should the need arise.
I think you got to give a kid like this a chance if you are the Hawks…Bigs don’t get no cheaper than this!!!!!
GO SILER AND GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
macaroni tony
October 5th, 2009
10:32 am
So Sekou,
Do you think that MW picked up his defense to guard the three, so JJ & JS can concentrate on their own man. I am looking forward to this season.
swatguy
October 5th, 2009
10:39 am
Morning SS (and BZ),
If ASG doesn’t pony up to fill the roster to 15, then they are cheap. We by all accounts have talent in camp for slots 13,14 and 15. With Mo, Joe, Jamal, Joe Smit, Jason and Randy expiring, why risk missing two guys (or three) by limiting the roster to 13? Thats crazy.
Sund has to be at least thinking about player movement possibilities with the core too.
richbrave
October 5th, 2009
10:57 am
niremetal:
In response to your query as to who will play defense on the WIZ this year OBERTO, HAYWOOD, McGUIRE, BUTLER at times and ———–. Maybe FOYE or MILLER. Don’t know those players’ defensive skills. Everybody else will be looking to pad stats IMO. CRITTENTON appeared to be the only player in the back-court willing to share the ball and play a team game. YOUNG’s is a series of one-on-one moves. JAMES is just me,me,me. I’m sure MILLER and FOYE were brought in to light fires under both of them. But defensively, I’m clueless and I’ll bet the ‘ZARDS will be too when the chips are down.
The HAWKS on the other hand appear to be much improved from the days of Dr. MARY B’s old fab five. The $$$$ appeared. and management came through. Now the coach has to get the most out of the players, and I think the HAWKS fly into the Eastern finals.
Mike N.
October 5th, 2009
10:59 am
Swat Guy…You have to leave at least one open roster spot in case we make any trades during the season. There is no reason for us to fill all 15 roster spots to start the season.
richbrave
October 5th, 2009
10:59 am
BIG RAY:
Thanks for the shout out and the low-down. Hang tough out there keeping us citizens safe for democracy. We DO appreciate it.
Jay
October 5th, 2009
11:00 am
Before last season began, “experts” said the Hawks would be lucky to get the 8th playoff spot. So the Hawks had a 47-35 season and advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs before losing to Cleveland; to the surprise of those “experts”.
So, before this season begins, the same “experts” say the Hawks, who’ll bring back the same starting five while improving the depth of their bench (adding veterans Jamal Crawford, Joe Smith and Jason Collins as well as rookie Jeff Teague to go with Maurice Evans and Zaza Pachulia) will be no better than the 4th playoff seed. If past performance indicates future activity, the Hawks will surprise those experts and either advance to the Eastern Conference Finals or give a much better acquittal of themselves in the second round.
Blog-Z is right—its way too early to drink the championship Kool-aid. On paper, this team is better/deeper than last year’s team. But, on paper, so are Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, Washington and Toronto. That’s why they play the games!
Three quick hits:
First, since big men who can play are hard to find, the Hawks should keep Courtney Sims and Garret Siler; as eventual replacements for Jason Collins and Randolph Morris.
Second, does Sekou or Blog-Z think Seattle native Crawford can help Seattle native Marvin Williams become more assertive on the Court?
Third, With a backcourt (Bibby, JJ, Crawford, Teague & Evans) that’s set for years (Yes, JJ will be back), a Center (Al Horford) who’s a beast with a ton of depth (Pachulia, Collins, Morris) behind him, a SF (Williams) who’s a solid, if not spectacular, consummate team player (backed-up by Johnson and Evans) and the Smiths; Josh (a freak of nature-in a good way) and Joe (the solid, veteran back-up) at PF, what do Sekou and/or Blog-Z think is the next move? By that I mean who else—or at what position—does this team needs to legitimately compete for a championship?
Ernest
October 5th, 2009
11:12 am
Thanks for the info Sekou! Like many Hawks fans, I am excited about this upcoming season. Do you anticipate blogging live from any of the preseason games, giving fans your thoughts on what you are seeing?
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
11:19 am
Great post Jay.
Sekou, as Jay asked – what do we need? It seems like everyone improved a lt.
Crawford is awesome. Teague is ready to contribute right away. Marvin & Bibby having great camp. Josh not shooting from outside. Horford has improved a lot. Who is not doing great?
swatguy
October 5th, 2009
11:28 am
Mike N.
Thats normally a good ideal. However, we have 6 expiring contracts on the roster.Having expirings give about the same flexibilty as an open slot. And we have SIX(or 5 considering Jamal). Othello, Silar and Robinson seem to be the type talent you want to keep in the organization. I don’t know if Collins and/or Joe Smith will be a Hawk next year ig a Silar/Othello/Randy develop as they may. We need a third PG (or combo) for sure and Robinson could be as valuable in the organization as you may need in a trade in February (or before).
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
11:32 am
Rio and Othello or Rio and Siler.
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
11:35 am
Swatguy,
More importantly, we need to keep a roster spot open in case someone gets waived and becomes available for us to sign mid-season, like Cassell/Brown for the Celtics a couple years ago, Gooden for the Spurs last year…those are just the ones off the top of my head. Playoff-bound teams nearly always keep a roster spot open heading into the season. Why would they burn their last roster spot on a training camp guy when there’s a very good chance a rotation player will become available mid-year? The Hawks are finally in the realm of teams that can start thinking that way.
A Tribe Called Quest
October 5th, 2009
11:43 am
Another blog from Sekou praising every player on the team as if they are All-Stars.
You could put Matt Freije on this squad and we’d hear about how he’s shooting lights out and better than Larry Bird.
I find it amazing people keep commenting about JCraw’s passing when the guy almost averaged as many APG as our starting PG last year
swatguy
October 5th, 2009
11:44 am
We very well may have 10 rotational guys now. Apparently the other two (randy and Collins) have situational talents. I do not believe we will need to “pick up” a rotational gut unless three guys get injured long-term. What we may burn is talent on the end we wish we may have next year. If an Othello, Silar, Robinson et. al. can continue to develop “in the system”, it would be more valuable than to beat the bushes in February.
A Tribe Called Quest
October 5th, 2009
11:47 am
“With Mario West I know what I’m getting, and it’s usually all good because his motor revs at all times. ”
What are you getting? Poor free throw shooting (can’t make any), a flawed jumpshot, and an undersized 6″3 (he’s NOT 6″5) guard for the 1 million QO?
swatguy
October 5th, 2009
11:48 am
We very well may have 10 rotational guys now. Apparently the other two (Randy and Collins) are needed situational talents. I do not believe we will need to “pick up” a rotational guy unless three guys get injured long-term. What we may wind up burning is talent on the end of the bench we wish we may have next year. If an Othello, Silar, Robinson et. al. can continue to develop “in the system”, it would be more valuable than to beat the bushes in February.
A Quest Called Tribe
October 5th, 2009
11:50 am
SEKOU SUCKS. RICK SUND SUCKS. EVERY PLAYER ON THE HAWKS SUCKS. MODERN HIP HOP SUCKS.
I’M STILL PISSED OFF THAT THE HAWKS DIDN’T SIGN GORTAT, GOODEN, WARRICK, POWE, WILCOX, RATLIFF, RASHEED, VILLANUEVA, AND OBERTO. HOW COULD WE LET THEM SLIP THROUGH OUR FINGERS? ASG WAS JUST TOO CHEAP TO SIGN THEM.
I WILL NEVER BE HAPPY UNTIL OUR ROSTER CONSISTS OF 14 MEDIOCRE BIG MEN PLUS JOSH SMITH AND UNTIL WE FIRE RICK SUND AS GM AND REPLACE HIM WITH Q-TIP.
fat joe
October 5th, 2009
11:55 am
Teague will be the best PG in the NBA.
fat joe
October 5th, 2009
12:01 pm
A Quest Called Tribe: YOU SUCK!!!
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
12:05 pm
Swatguy,
Odds are that at least 1-2 rotation players will get hurt and that Woody will prove unwilling to play training camp guys in their place. We’ve seen it happen many times before. It came back to kill us last year when 3 of our starters were hobbled late in the season and in the playoffs, but Woody still rode them 40 minutes a night because he didn’t trust the young and untested players.
Filling all 15 roster spots now would be foolish. Undrafted training camp guys rarely become rotation players, and odds are that NONE of the 8 guys we’re talking about will ever crack an NBA rotation (check out past training camp rosters if you think that’s an exaggeration). It’s not like these guys are in imminent danger of getting signed by other teams, or else they wouldn’t be in training camp without a contract, just trying to scrape the 13th or 14th spot on the team. Giving guaranteed contracts to three of them before the season even starts is not a move that a team trying to move up in the playoff ranks makes.
If one of these guys is tearing up the D-League, we can sign him to a couple 10-day contracts then to see how he does in the NBA and then sign him for the rest of the season if he looks good, like we did with Jeremy Richardson 2 years ago. But even Jeremy is now out of the NBA. Why would you want to spend our final roster spot on one of these guys (who all 30 teams passed on in the draft and didn’t sign after summer league) before you even see them in a regular season NBA game?
Sign 2, and leave a roster spot open so we have some flexibility in case we get hit with a rash of injuries this winter. There are plenty of examples of teams that face that situation every year, which is why most contending teams leave the 15th roster spot open when the season starts.
fat joe
October 5th, 2009
12:05 pm
CRAZY MONKey
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
12:10 pm
I should modify that to “none of the 6 undrafted guys.” Dixon and Wilks obviously have already been NBA rotation players – although I think the odds are good that neither will be a rotation player again.
fat joe
October 5th, 2009
12:11 pm
1. Celtics
2. Cavs
3. Hawks
4. Magic
A Quest Called Tribe
October 5th, 2009
12:18 pm
NIREMETAL YOU SUCK, THE HAWKS SUCK, OUR BENCH SUCKS & MODERN HIP HOP SUCKS!
CRAZY MONkey
October 5th, 2009
12:21 pm
?
CRAZY MONkey
October 5th, 2009
12:25 pm
Cool
Hoops
October 5th, 2009
12:33 pm
nire is right! Sign two and leave one roster spot open. It gives you flexibility for later in the season if an opportunity to get a better player comes along. It’s not like we are going to play the 15 roster spot player anyway!
Have I missed something? Where is Stackhouse? Sign Stackhouse and Siler and let’s play some Hoops!!!
rms
October 5th, 2009
12:44 pm
Jamal Crawford! Whatever, I bet thats the same thing said about him when he was at Golden State. Looks good in training camp but when the season starts, its the same ol’ same ol’. And what about Teague, will he be an elite PG soon or just a journeyman backup guard that plays on 12 different teams in 15 years??
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October 5th, 2009
1:15 pm
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Chris
October 5th, 2009
1:51 pm
Othello Hunter has that motor, always hustling and running the floor. Defense with a mid range J. stick with that kid!
Doug
October 5th, 2009
2:05 pm
rms: Same ole’ thing vis-a-vis Crawford?? He has played for teams that suck. He has averaged 20ppg…over 5 apg…has scored 50 with three different teams. To begin with same ole’ will be really good…but he will have a better year than even those because he is playing with a really good team in a supporting role. Watch and see
I MUS WRITE
October 5th, 2009
2:05 pm
Good stuff Sekou……… I would keep Siler/Hunter or Sims/Hunter. Mario has a nonstop motor,but what else does he bring to the table. This is the NBA not a rec league -I mean u have to have sum sort of skill to play in this league.Tribe is dead on,I’ve talked to Mario plenty of times and we are exactly the same height -with that said at 6′4 he is undersized for the pg/sg spots.So i say lets end the expirement/feel good story
Hunter should be kept around becuz if he keeps developing -we will have our backup Sf once Mo leaves.
1.Cleveland
2.Orlando…..I just think they will be better with Vc,Bowen,Bass,Healthy Nelson
3.Atlanta
4.Boston
Cant wait to see this line up…… JC,JJ,Marvin,Smoove,Horford or
Teague,JC,JJ,Marvin,Horford
Tribe come’on man …sum of those guys were overpaid -the only guys off your list i wanted was Charlie V and wilcox……… Charlie V has a nice offensive game but is kinda suspect on D.-We have enough perimeter O. Wilcox is cool but I question the mans desire sumtimz-he has all the tools but has been mediocre through out his career-HEART I would ride with Joe Smith over those 2 for what this team needs.
Hawks #3 seed this year -u heard it here first
I MUS WRITE
October 5th, 2009
2:06 pm
undersized for the 2 and not enuff skill(ball handling/passing) for the PG.
PDubATL
October 5th, 2009
2:28 pm
Sekou, is Sund set on having only a 13-player roster? I understand the need to save the 15th spot but don’t see why he or the ASG wouldn’t want to use a minimum contract to hold onto a potential talent like Siler at 14th spot.
I MUS WRITE
October 5th, 2009
2:33 pm
Nir- Why do u keep harping undrafted status. Who the hell cares….. Hunter wasnt drafted but he is becoming a player and keeps getting better. Siler is a huge guy who just needs seasoning-with that kind of size strength and desire he may be what we need in a couple yrs.
O by the way the guy who was tearing it up in the D League is in camp with us HELLO Sims= 20/10 D League MVP
Siler or Sims and Hunter……I will agree we need that open spot just incase, but even if we lose a cupl guys to injury we still have a solid 8 man rotation which is what we played with all of last year.
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
2:43 pm
I MUS Write,
If someone was not drafted, it usually means he either has insufficient talent or has not been trained enough in the formative years of his life. Either drawback is almost impossible to overcome.
Daniel
October 5th, 2009
2:46 pm
IMUS- I like your picks. I still have our Hawks as a 4th seed, but I see Boston as the most likely to slip from the top three.
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
2:58 pm
Why wait to see who gets drop from someone else team when you have a talented vet like Stackhouse waiting to get pickup? I say we signed Stackhouse/Siler and let’s play some ball…
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
3:07 pm
From what I can tell, it’s going to be 13 for sure on the roster. With the Hawks’ history of playing such a tight rotation under Woodson, it’s hard for me to justify keeping a 14th. It’s strictly for show if you keep that many. It’s probably wiser to leave some room in case you want to make a deal later or add a specific piece as the season goes on.
I’m sorry to inform anyone in need of some hate that most guys on most teams give a good showing of their abilities during training camp. That’s why it’s camp and not the regular season, Tribe. I’ll roast someone after they play someone that doesn’t have on a Hawks uniform.
As far as what the Hawks need, it’s clear to me that a swingman that can work behind Marvin Williams and Josh Smith (in particular) is what best serves this team right now. But security at point guard will be costly later in the season. If you snag a third PG you like early, you don’t have to push that panic button later.
Dan
October 5th, 2009
3:15 pm
I think they should sign Stackhouse. It makes a lot of sense. He would not have to play major minutes, he can score in a lot of ways, and has experience. If the money is right, should be a no brainer. Who knows if the money will be right, though.
I am really pulling for Mario West, but if I had to bet, my money is on Siler getting that last spot. He is big and looks like he might have the ability to contribute in the post. If nothing else, he could bang some heads against thug teams like Boston…would love to see him layout a clown like Perkins.
Dan
October 5th, 2009
3:15 pm
Ohh…one more thing, Sekou…GO GREEN!!! Did it to ‘em again!!
Craig
October 5th, 2009
3:16 pm
Sekou, you’re nuts. Blog Z, you’re nutser.
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
3:27 pm
jerrywest
Your comment:
If someone was not drafted, it usually means he either has insufficient talent or has not been trained enough in the formative years of his life. Either drawback is almost impossible to overcome.
What about these players (just to name a few)?
Ben Wallace
Bruce Bowen
Brad Miller
Udonis Haslem
Damien Wilkins
Earl Boykins
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
3:42 pm
v!vººv!v×¢§«g.¤›»
Hoops
October 5th, 2009
3:44 pm
If Sekou is right and the Hawks are only going to sign one more player before the regular season starts, it has to be Stackhouse! He can give us that Vet. off the bench that can make a big difference in a tight game. Sign him for 1 year/Vet Minimum. I really do hate to not sign Siler though!
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
3:47 pm
Sekou
This comment:
it’s clear to me that a swingman that can work behind Marvin Williams and Josh Smith (in particular) is what best serves this team right now.
Just curious, what player did we invite to camp matched that description?
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
3:49 pm
ßëçàrËfúl whã+ ¥øÛ Wî§H før« . »
Mike N.
October 5th, 2009
3:53 pm
Truth…I was asking myself the same question. Seems the only one even close is Hunter although he is more a PF then SF. Maybe Robinson but I have never seen him play so couldn’t tell you what kind of offensive game he has. And if this is the case then it gives the Bigs like Siler or SIms even less a chance of making the team if we are only going to keep one guy. It will be interesting.
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
3:53 pm
As far as what the Hawks need, it’s clear to me that a swingman that can work behind Marvin Williams and Josh Smith (in particular) is what best serves this team right now.
Hmmmmmm…Othello Hunter, anyone?
The Truth,
I listed some of the same people when we had this discussion earlier, and I tried to list all the undrafted rotation players who have emerged in the past decade.
But it’s both amusing and misleading that you say “just to name a few.” The list is 10 guys or less, even if you’re being generous. You left off Jannero Pargo, Kelenna Azibuke, Raja Bell (1999), and Chris Andersen (1999). Wallace and Bowen turned pro well over 10 years from now. Technically, Boykins and Miller are both from 11 years ago, but I’ll include them for the sake of argument. Foreign players operated under such a complicated set of rules with respect to the draft before the most recent CBA that they’re a whole different discussion (especially since none of the guys in the Hawks camp is an overseas player).
We’re talking about 8-10 guys from the last decade. That means that of all of roughly 150 undrafted players who show up for minicamp and training camp each year, about 1 per year will become a rotation player at some point in their NBA careers. And note that most of them only become rotation players on bad teams.
So listing 6 guys isn’t “just to name a few.” It’s naming almost all of them.
In any case, no one’s saying we should cut ALL of these guys. But I would hesitate to sign more than one, and I sure as hell wouldn’t sign three. What jerrywest said was totally accurate – when a player goes undrafted it usually means they lack either the talent or the training, and in either case, the almost never overcome those drawbacks and become rotation players in the NBA.
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
4:00 pm
Î §££N thê fütür£ & JJ Wî// plÅÿ før Thë KnîçKs
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
4:07 pm
!Thê WØrlD wïLL £nd DÊç. 2, 2012!
thehawksleftthenest
October 5th, 2009
4:10 pm
sorry but we are still not better than the top 3 in the east fat joe so dont count on that… but i think were a solid lock for 4th place
Black Sheep
October 5th, 2009
4:18 pm
Tribe – You owe me money
The Jungle Brothers
October 5th, 2009
4:19 pm
Tribe – U Suck
cp
October 5th, 2009
4:32 pm
No more Mario. He is an undersized sg who cant shoot, dribble, or hit free throws. The feel good story faded away last year. Time to move on from the kid. Hunter and Siler and call it a day.
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
4:33 pm
Your question has already been answered Truth. Don’t forget that NBA TV (and NBA.com) will be at practice tomorrow with live looks at the happenings. And Woody promised a twist for the Blue-White scrimmage tomorrow that could shake things up a bit. I’m going to remind him to stick to it tomorrow morning.
rich
October 5th, 2009
4:38 pm
I liked Mario untill the playoffs last year when he became a Libility with the injuries . Other teams didn’t guard him because wasn’t going to shoot. Sign Hunter for the Roster . Sign Siler stick him in D league for the year .
I agree with I mus write on Standings . I see Boston finishing behind Atlanta , age is going to catch up with them.
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
4:49 pm
niremetal
If you are going to jump on the “just to name a few”
who said anything about the “last decade”
Also:
“Hmmmmmm…Othello Hunter, anyone?”
I had the same thoughts as Mike N. about him
Jerry Stackhouse...
October 5th, 2009
4:52 pm
If the Hawks are serious about a Championship doesn’t it make sense to grab this veteran All-star while availabe? He apparently still has alot left – after raving reviews from Hawks pick-up camp.
Isn’t there a need for a backup 3? Right now Marvin is the only true SF on the team. Certainly, regular minutes are scarce but its the playoff run we need to concern ourselves about. Last season, we got nicked and threw up the white flag. Yes, it was very GAY and I would like to spare myself from that type of exhibition again.
Celts, Cavs, Spurs, Lakers, Mavs, etc. always find room for former All-star veterans – just for that reason – they expect to go far and they know they’ll need quality play down the stretch.
For the same reasons we like Joe Smith, we oughtta love Stackhouse.
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
4:53 pm
Minutes behind Marvin (at small forward): Josh, Mo Evans, JJ, Joe Smith.
Minutes behind Josh (at power forward): Horford, Marvin, Joe Smith, Zaza.
Minutes behind Horford (at center): Zaza, Joe Smith, Jason Collins.
Minutes behind Bibby (at point guard): Crawford, JJ, Teague.
Minutes begind JJ (at shooting guard): Crawford, Mo Evans.
In every position we have at least 3 other guys who can really play. Do we? Oh no!!! At shooting guard we have only 2. One of them is a defensive liability and the other one is an offensive liability. They are both got something missing.
Looking at the above list tell me who fits in better with the Hawks than Stackhouse. We can have him at Veteran minimum and he will make us so much superior on the road. Who else is there?
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
4:56 pm
I saw the lakers and boston practices.
Boston looks professional and they really want it. Rondo looks like he gained a lot of muscles. I still think this team will be devastated by injury by the playoffs.
Can’t wait to see Hawks practice tomorrow.
PDubATL
October 5th, 2009
4:58 pm
I’ll have to agree to disagree on carrying 13+ on the roster. Sure, money is tight and even minimum contracts cost something, but the 13th and 14th spots can be swapped situationally. I hope we’ll sign a swingman to back up Marvin/Mo/JSmoove (Stack, Hunter or Green 800k!!!) and a biggun (Siler). Siler would primarily be used to toughen guys up in practice (which from a developmental standpoint for Siler is probably better than the D-League) and may see some limited minutes against Shaq/Howard.
jerrywest
October 5th, 2009
5:02 pm
We are one JJ or Marvin injury away from exposing our butt$ at SG & SF positions. Just get another 2 way player Jerry Stackhouse, and he wil make us scary good.
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
5:09 pm
PDubATL
Good point
Karry
October 5th, 2009
5:37 pm
Best Crawford Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ3nxkycszw
Brian
October 5th, 2009
5:51 pm
I think the last final roster spot should go to Frank Robinson. This guy can flat out play basketball. He has tenacious D, his energy on the court is contagious and it’s hard not to love watching him play, basically he can do it all. I’m a huge Hawks fan, and I would love to see this guy make the team. He deserves more credit.
rms
October 5th, 2009
5:53 pm
DOUG: Maybe I am wrong about Crawford (I certainly hope so), its just so easy to get caught up in the preseason hype that I dont wont to be let down when we get deep into the regular season. What I really wont to know is if Horford postup game has improved to the point that he can be a force down low. I am not really hearing that and it has me worried a bit.
Barry
October 5th, 2009
5:54 pm
“SHOCK THE WORLD, BABY!! SHOCK THE WORLD!!!!!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS A SECRET FROM HAWK FAN. TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
………………………….”SHOCK THE WORLD!!!!!……………….
Doug
October 5th, 2009
6:09 pm
rms: I think you will be surprised and pleased with Crawford–As to AH and his post up game…that is going to be a more long term project I fear…it is probably just as or more important that he become more consistent at the 15-17 ft J…which I think reports are more positive in that direction. For those who think Boston will slip…I fear you are really reaching…went to camp last week and they are REALLY focused and Rasheed looks really good! Garnett is on an absolute mission…now their age and injury propensity could be their undoing but as it stands they are really, really good!!
A Thinking Fan
October 5th, 2009
6:10 pm
When’s game time?
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
6:58 pm
Game time:
pre season: Oct. 23 on ESPN
Season: Oct. 28 vs Pacers on fsn or sportsouth
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
7:04 pm
» HÄwk§ vs Ørlåndø «
Øçt. 23
Øn £spn
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
7:12 pm
Tribe
¥öû sûçk!
Sêkôü Ïs th£ bèst wrïtêr!
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
7:15 pm
niremetal
I wasn’t kidding when I said “just to name a few”. Here is a list of undrafted NBA players from just the period 1993-2007 to add to my previous list.
By the way, your beloved player Mo Evans is also on the list. What a coincidence.
ÛFØ
October 5th, 2009
7:18 pm
Sekou:
Can you tell me if you think the hawks should trade JJ? I think they should.
ÛfØ
October 5th, 2009
7:24 pm
ßƤº»
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 5th, 2009
7:30 pm
The Hawks and Orlando can’t both be in the top three because they are in the same division. The top three positions belong to those teams who win the division. For the Hawks to get a top 3 spot they are gonna have to focus on having a better record than Orlando, Washington, Charlotte, and Miami. And if the Hawks want to have a top 1 or 2 spot then they would have to focus on having a better record than the other 14 teams in the eastern conference, particularly Cleveland and Boston since most assume they will be holding those spots. Long story short, Orlando and Hawks will never be in the top three together unless one team moves to another division.
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
7:32 pm
From Hoopshype:
“While Stackhouse worked out with the Hawks late in the summer – to rave reviews from beat writer Sekou Smith – Atlanta was never a very serious option for him. There was some contact with Houston, according to Stackhouse, but the Tar Heel is mostly looking to join a contender, which obviously the Rockets are not at this point.”
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra/2009/10/05/stack-not-ready-to-retire/
Sekou, can you tell Sund that the Hawks Fans are screaming for them to sign Stackhouse….
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 5th, 2009
7:34 pm
Although I want to see the Hawks destroy the Celtics this season, I’ll be a much happier fan seeing them be the top dog in the SE Division. Orlando, Washington, Miami, and Charlotte must be defeated.
ÛfØ
October 5th, 2009
7:36 pm
Gøød ïnfô thrüth
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
7:46 pm
Pretty impressive link Truth. Your move Nire….
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
7:46 pm
The Truth,
Um…since when do I love Mo Evans?
I was using the last decade as a convenient frame of time, and stretched it to 11 years just to make the point. Yes, I missed Mo Evans. I also missed Ronnie Price. Whoops. That makes it 12 rotation players instead of 10. Wow, incredible comeback. My whole argument just unraveled with that startling revelation.
Look at that list again. It’s not a list of rotation players. It seems to be just a list of guys who made NBA rosters that were undrafted. My point was tell me how many of them became rotation players – ie guys who played regular minutes over the course of a full season (and even that is a minimalist definition…or else you’d have to say that guys like Hanno Mottola and Roshown McLeod were “rotation players”). Because I can tell you by no stretch of the imagination are Donnell Taylor and Alan Anderson rotation players. In fact, here is Donnell Taylor’s career stats page:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/donell_taylor/career_stats.html
That’s right. He never played in a single NBA game. So clearly, making that list you sent me is no big accomplishment.
Why don’t you go after the point of my argument instead of the details. I’ll be REALLY generous this time to make the point. Let’s say that in the past 15 years, 45 undrafted players have become rotation players – that’s DOUBLE the proportion that I gave before and probably exceeds the actual proportion by a good margin (considering that that list you sent only includes 76 players, and a quick glance will show that most of them were NOT rotation players). That means that 2 players each year out of ALL the undrafted rookies who show up to camp across the NBA end up EVER being a rotation player in the NBA. I’ll be generous AGAIN and say that each NBA team brings an average of 2 undrafted rookies to their training camp each year. That’s 60 undrafted rookies every year, 2 of whom will become rotation players at some point.
Why on earth would we then want to burn THREE roster spots this year when the odds of each of them ever becoming an NBA player is 1 in 30 and the odds of them being a rotation player for a good team are even lower?
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
7:49 pm
Actually, that’s triple the proportion I gave before, not double (I switched and forgot to update before I hit send). The numbers then scale down to 3 per year and 1 in 20 instead of 1 in 30. But the overall point, I hope, is clear…
james
October 5th, 2009
7:52 pm
RMS- Crawford never went through training camp with the Warriors he left the knicks (mid November) who he helped to be above .500 for the first time in about 4 years to a GS team who was below .500 already .
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
7:55 pm
Heh…sloppy work by me on Donell Taylor too. He played 2 seasons for the Wizards, playing in 51 and 47 games and averaging about 8.5 minutes per game total. Still not a rotation player, but he did at least get into some games. But again…the overall point is why hang onto these guys when the odds are overwhelming that they will peak at the level of a Donell Taylor (or less) when we could leave the roster spot open in case we get nailed with injuries and can pick up a cheap veteran on the market?
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
8:01 pm
And finally, I should point out that a disproportionate number of the guys on Truth’s list who were rotation players got drafted in the early-to-mid 90’s. Now that scouting is such a refined art and is so intertwined with the personnel side of the organization, you see fewer and fewer guys who go undrafted “slip through the cracks” to become relevant in the NBA. That’s why as time goes on, we see fewer and fewer late 2nd round and undrafted players ever making a dent in the NBA.
ÛfØ
October 5th, 2009
8:37 pm
niremetal Î çän têll Ÿøû tr¥ tøo hård tø söûnd smãrt.
Ariose
October 5th, 2009
8:47 pm
……just bringing an old point back up. but y’all know Tayshaun Prince is on the Block in Detriot right? They drafted 3 SF’s this summer, and I don’t know how they would go about trading Rip. They also need more beef. I say we sign a couple centers and use em’ in a deal….just an unimportant thought…
richbrave
October 5th, 2009
9:00 pm
SEKOU:
I really hate writing this. You will be able to pick up a great future PG if you just wait a bit. I think the WIZARDS are gonna’ dump JAVARIS CRITTENTON after camp, or offer him around. Just a hunch at this point, but they’ve got seven guards now, and his is the least expensive out at 1.477 million with club option in 2010/11. DIXON’S contract is up, and he’s gone. There’s sixteen in camp. VINCENT GRIER is trying to beat out PAUL DAVIS for the fifteenth spot. I’m betting neither makes the final roster. I don’t see the ‘ZARDS keeping but thirteen with the payroll they have. They need tax relief, and I think they’ll take the hit to get some much needed breathing room.
The Truth
October 5th, 2009
9:03 pm
niremetal
So I don’t drift into topics outside of the original discussion which I posed to jerrywest:
“If someone was not drafted, it usually means he either has insufficient talent or has not been trained enough in the formative years of his life. Either drawback is almost impossible to overcome.”
I was just making the point that there have been (and is) a good share of undrafted NBA that have played in the NBA. The suggestion was that some perceived drawback of UFA players made it almost impossible for them to have an NBA career. This list suggests otherwise. Regarding the new discussion that you raise, (How many UFA players were/are rotational players) I find that to be interesting as well. It would be good information to know and certainly worth checking into. That would be a good exercise for both of us to check out. It is hard to tell without doing some digging from this list.
As far as whether we should obtain 2 or 3 UFA players to fill-out the roster, I’m actually on the fence about that. Other then Mario, my knowledge of these players is mostly based on Sekou’s input. So I have no direct sense of these players’ real value. I could see a case for 2 and even for 3 depending on how good they are. We know how expensive the Bigs are on the market, so if we could get 3 undiscovered diamonds on the cheap then why not? I did say diamonds, so anything less is a case for less. I really don’t know the players well enough to judge.
I will be attending the preseason game on Wednesday so hopefully I will see things for myself and get to know these players better if they play.
i_am_soulstar
October 5th, 2009
9:13 pm
i think Mario West brings a lot of intangibles.. every team needs that high energy guy. But man, what is stopping us from just signing Stackhouse? We’d truly have the depth to compete with the Big 3
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
9:22 pm
I don’t think they should do anything of the sort UFO. Trade JJ for what?
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
9:24 pm
Josh did say he was going to stop shooting 3’s. Here’s the proof..lol
http://www.nba.com/hawks/photogallery/2009_training_camp_day4.html?curPhoto=7
Sekou, does josh jumper/ball handling looks improved?
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
9:47 pm
The Truth,
Your last post takes the cake in this thread. Better reasoned than any of mine on this subject.
I guess my point is that the odds of us discovering any diamonds are extraordinarily low…more often than not, the undrafted ones turn out to be cubic zirconium
.
Also, not a major point, but worthy of note – the only players on that list who went to Hawks training camp were Esteban Batista, Jamaal Tatum…and Mike Wilks. I guess what goes around comes around, eh?
In any case, it’s a cost-benefit thing. If there are 2-3 training camp guys who are so stellar that we’d be insane to pass them up, then we should sign them. But if past is prologue, it is unlikely that even 1 of the training camp guys – much less 2 – will be someone we’ll ever hear about again after training camp.
I just don’t want us to use up roster spots that we might need if 3 or 4 injuries hit and Woody refuses to play our current 11th and 12th men, leaving us playing with a 7 or 8 player rotation and driving our starters into the ground again…
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
9:50 pm
Josh took one bad shot today (the one in that picture) and had one silly turnover during the scrimmage, but other than that he’s looked dang good. He’s been blocking shots and offensive rebounding better than I’ve seen him do those things since before last season. His activity on both ends of the floor is crucial to the Hawks’ cause.
Sekou Smith
October 5th, 2009
9:52 pm
As for his handles, Josh had a great behind the back dribble for a stepback jumper today that was as good a move as any player made during today’s scrimmage. He’s got all sort of tools to work with. That’s never been his issue. Deciding what to focus on and maxing it out is the key.
UGA
October 5th, 2009
9:57 pm
Which guard (PG) has the best shot at making this team sir?
Is anyone on our team showing some improved skills on the block? Are we going to try and post up Marvin more this year?
Thanks!
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
10:04 pm
Thanks for the info Sekou. Hopefully Josh can take the next step and become an All-star this year…
Stating the Obvious
October 5th, 2009
10:18 pm
“Josh had a great behind the back dribble for a stepback jumper today that was as good a move as any player made during today’s scrimmage.”
If Josh tries that move during a real game, someone needs to kick his ass.
HYPOCRIT ALURT
October 5th, 2009
10:30 pm
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
7:46 pm
Why don’t you go after the point of my argument instead of the details.
HYPOCRIT ALURT, SOMEBODY SOUND THE ALARM NON MENTAL IS LOOSE AGAIN WITH HIS ONE MAN BUBBA CREW.
Ariose
October 5th, 2009
10:38 pm
Final Eastern Confrence Standings:
1)Celtics
2)Caviliers
3)Hawks
4)Magic
5)Wizards
6)Raptors
7)Bobcats
8)Sixers
Close Miss: Heat, Bulls, and Pacers
Divison Champs get the top seeds regardless, so we really need to come out of the gate strong and snag that SE dvision title. We have to create a sizeable cushon before Orlando heats up. The Magic will suffer early because of the 10 game Rahsard Lewis suspension, The loss of the playmaking ability of Hedo, Chemistry issues because of all the new players, and the fact that Jameer Nelson isn’t who they think he is(they shoulda kept Rafer)…The #3 seed is ours for the taking, we just need to stay healthy and it’s a done deal.
Melvin
October 5th, 2009
10:39 pm
Ariose,
All that smack DWade talk this summer, he don’t want to see Josh after getting block by a rookie…lol
http://www.nba.com/video/games/pistons/2009/10/05/0010900007_mia_det_7play.nba/index.html?ls=gt1hp0010900007
Big Ray
October 5th, 2009
10:43 pm
Uh, Nire ,
Now you know I like Othello Hunter. And I want him to make the team. But doesn’t he fit the description of what you and Truth have been “discussing” for several posts? A training camp invitee. According to you and whatever stats y’all dug up (y’all gotta be bored or something) such players rarely develop into a decent rotational player.
Not only that, but this guy played center in college. Not SF. And unless I missed something, the few times he DID play last year, he wasn’t playing SF. So you’re ready to hand the role of backup swingman to a guy who has never even been played at that spot?
I mean, I’d sooner have Josh play SF, and yes I know how you feel about that. Well, like it or not, he was listed as a swingman type coming into the league and nearly every writer and commentator who has ever done more than mention him in passing has talked about him as a swingman who happens to be playing PF. Just sayin’…
Rod From College Park
October 5th, 2009
10:48 pm
“Josh had a great behind the back dribble for a stepback jumper today that was as good a move as any player made during today’s scrimmage.”
If Josh tries that move during a real game, someone needs to kick his ass.
Why do I get the feeling that if it was Marvin doing this, there would be talk of hard he has worked on his game and how he is going to be an all-star this year. Because it is Josh, he should have his ass kicked. Stating the Obvious nothing has changed about you one bit. You defend marvin like its a job but you’re going to bash Josh. Classic. And let me state something obvious. Only the blind can’t see that you are niremetal. Is this what your lawyer degree got you? What’s your favorite word, syntax? Try changing it before you accuse somebody else of using multiple names. So much for the law degree.
Big Ray
October 5th, 2009
10:51 pm
Man, NBA.com stinks. Yahoosports does a much better job of keeping up-to-date scoring information and what not. What is wrong with those folks at NBA.com?
Melvin ,
Nice link! I love it. Still, almost nothing beats that one Josh Smith did on Wade last year. And Wade thought he had the game-winning layup…heh heh heh!
Jody
October 5th, 2009
10:57 pm
Big Ray,
You make an excellent point. To my knowledge, Josh Smith never played the power forward position full time until his third year in the league (Antoine Walker and Al Harrington played at the four spot). Josh Smith came into the league playing small forward (a slashing small forward). He was asked to play power forward after the Hawks drafted Marvin. It’s amazing to me how so many people continue to criticize him for not being a “true” power forward or post player when he never was that to begin with and when he’s clearly smaller than his opponent on most nights. While I agree that he needs to work on his decision making, I think more people should applaud the efforts of both he and Horford when they’re both clearly playing out of position.
Ariose
October 5th, 2009
10:58 pm
Thank you Ray! I was going to bring it up, but i didn’t feel like putting on the gloves right now lol. What makes Othello Hunter the “Training Campe Invitee” exception? He certainly wasn’t a rotational player last season.
Ariose
October 5th, 2009
10:59 pm
Rod, for once I have to agree wih you. Stop Smoove hatin’ ni….uh Mr.Obvious!
Big Ray
October 5th, 2009
11:14 pm
Jody ,
Thanks, man. That’s just the way I’ve always seen it with Josh. The skills don’t necessarily always tell the whole the story about the player, or I could make a case for why Hedo Turkoglu is more of a pg than Jameer Nelson is. Of course, that’s not the best comparison or analogy for this subject (it’s a broad subject). And chances are, ol’ Nire over there is likely to demand that I post proof of all the NBA types who have called Smith a swingman, then discredit every single one of them the moment I post it.
JUST KIDDING, Nire
I MUS WRITE
October 5th, 2009
11:14 pm
Jerry West there are exceptions to every rule.
Daniel- I think that boston will be either 3 or 4 in a close battle with Atlant….
Cant wait for the Wednesday scrimmage against NO….Man what would i do without my NBA TV
Tony
October 5th, 2009
11:16 pm
I am going to say this again for the last time. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY superstars on this team. Like charles barkley said “Joe Johnson is just a very good player.” Joe is not a star people. Get over it and stop the none sense. He cannot carry this team in the playoffs and even if he does this year where was he in Boston two years ago or last year against Miami and the Cavs.A.I. led philly by himself (and hurt to might I add), King James lead the cavs, D-wade carried miami last year and almost beat us by himself with a bunch of young babes and some washed up has beens. What’s wrong with you all. Every week I hear about Joe this and Joe that. Jordan, A.I., D-Wade, Isaiah Thomas and even other superstars have all played with injuries, have all played sick. So don’t give me the crap that Joe was hurt. I do not care. A superstar gives his best and does not give or let someone else give excuses for their play if they are hurt or sick. A superstar gives everything. A.I. has done that. Kobe has done that. D-Wade has done that. If you are a star Joe, prove it to me. When the pressure mounts we will see what’s more important you or the team. And oh yeah, the clock is ticking.
I MUS WRITE
October 5th, 2009
11:20 pm
Jerry West…… The Truth has assembled a nice little list of undrafted guys that seemed to turn out okay….O wait Ben Wallace was a former defensive MVP and Bowen was as sticky as they come ……
I guess it doesnt matter since they were’nt drafted….. Uhhhhhmmmm Yeah!!!!!!
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
11:21 pm
Ray,
Oh, I agree that the odds are very, VERY likely that Othello will never be a rotation player. If we had 14 roster spots filled, I would be calling for us to cut Hunter along with everyone else at camp. My point was simply that if we ARE going to only take 1 player from these 8, I think that Hunter is my pick. And even that is based less on the probability of him becoming a rotation player than it is a simple necessity given that there aren’t any combo forwards on our roster, and it would be nice to have someone to back up (read: practice against) Marvin and Josh.
And even then, I’ve said before that if it looks as if Othello lacks the skill set needed to play emergency minutes at SF, then we should cut him too. This is all based on the idea that in mini-camp, Othello apparently looked like he had worked hard to develop himself into a combo forward. If I’m wrong about that, then frankly there’s no reason to keep him around.
In any case, I hold no illusions about Othello. Much as I love his motor (as with Rio), I don’t think any of these guys will become rotation players.
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
11:33 pm
Rod, hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but no…that wasn’t me.
Do you know what syntax means? Apparently not if you think you can pick up on similarities in syntax from a two-clause declarative sentence written entirely in the active voice. There are no syntactic kinks in that sentence or any other tell-tale signs of personal writing habits. An example of a syntactic kink would be something like “he needs to have his ass kicked” (passive voice, kind of unusual in that context). And frankly, I tend to prefer the passive voice more than most people, so that’s actually a tell that would lean AGAINST finding syntactic similarities. If I had written that sentence, I would have said something to the effect “If Josh is thinking about trying that move during a real game, he needs to have his ass kicked.” (present tense, passive voice…just the way I like it)
Anyway, I actually agree with you – if Marvin tried that move in a real game, I would be ticked. The only player on the Hawks who has any business trying a move like that is Crawford, and even then I’d roll my eyes.
Clyde
October 5th, 2009
11:45 pm
Jamal Crawford may be good but he ain’t gonna protect the basket. We were a good offensive team last year but our interior defense was our weakness and the reason why we got swept my Cleveland.
ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
October 5th, 2009
11:48 pm
Clyde ,
I don’t suppose having three of our starters injured had anything to do with it. Nawwww….
Nire ,
Hell, Joe does moves like that all the time. We love it. I’m not making noise unless it results in a turnover.
niremetal
October 5th, 2009
11:53 pm
Ray,
Fair enough. But even as a self-proclaimed Joe fan, I can say I’d much rather see Crawford get the copyright on that move
Big Ray
October 5th, 2009
11:58 pm
Wish Hunter had a spot, but to be honest, I have NO idea who makes it from the training camp roster. Heck, maybe NONE of them.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
12:04 am
Rod ,
This time nobody said Marvin is going to be an all-star. And unless I’m mistaken, nobody even brought him up. Except you. Strange, huh?
bigdave
October 6th, 2009
12:18 am
that pic of Josh taking that jumper is the definition of talking out your ass… too funny… id be surprised if he doesnt slowly but surely creep closer and closer to his favorite spot on the floor…
i just crack up when looking at it… clear as day.. #5.. jumper… he’s liking it too.. thinks its good.. Sekou did he make the shot?
I MUS WRITE
October 6th, 2009
12:22 am
CAT FIGHT
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
1:04 am
Niremetal and Big Ray,
Actually that was not me either. Notice that the From is capitalized. I am shocked that both of you with your investigative blog skills did not notice that. You won’t win many cases missing obvious things like that.
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
1:06 am
Oh yeah. Marvin can’t dribble behind his back. He can barely change direction. LOL
tyger
October 6th, 2009
1:50 am
Things we know…
1) 13, 14, 15 – will never play.
Deepest Hawks team since…Augmon/Laettner?
2) Crawford, Teague, JJ, Bibby best East backct.
3) Hawks cant lose JJ – anchor.
4) Marvin will miss 15-20 games – just a fact.
5) Woody’s middle name is Lazarus.
6) ZaZa 6th Man of the Year?
7) Stackhouse changes the game.
9) Joe Smith will rebound/score/defend when it counts.
10) Garrett Siler makes the team.
Side note: How many more ticket sales if Hawks sign Stackhouse? Who better to groom Marvin and JSmoove? Isnt that the move of a contender? Arent Hawks birds of prey – or pigeons, flying rats living off scraps?
darrell starks
October 6th, 2009
4:56 am
This year if joe play more than 35min a game woody should be fired by mid season, this is some of the reason for joe failure during the playoff woody dogging him during the season then come playoff he’s burned out.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
6:02 am
Rod ,
Sorry I didn’t know that was NOT you (I guess I’ll just have to take your word for it). I mean, the crack about Marvin, the stab at “Stating the Obvious” and Niremetal , that is totally out of character for you, right? And the name said “Rod from College Park.”
They all seemed like bigger clues than “from” is capitalized or not. But I’m not hatin’, I guess you have a twin.
Oh look. Another crack on Marvin:
“Oh yeah. Marvin can’t dribble behind his back. He can barely change direction. LOL”
Was that you, or did your “fake self” just remember NOT to capitalize “from” this time?
Sorry dude, but it’s just funny. Like I said, I ain’t hatin’ on ya. By the way, I’m a cop, not a lawyer. I don’t win or lose cases. I just put ‘em away. Doesn’t take investigative blog skills to know that. You just have to read….peace out…
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
6:05 am
Darrell ,
I hear you, but I still think Joe will play over 35 a game. Look at Boston when they won the championship. The Big Three all averaged anywhere from 33 to 36/37 mpg, but nobody averaged more than that. I can see Joe still getting 36 or 37 mpg. If you ask me, it’s Bibby who won’t get as many minutes. I can see him getting cut back to about 27 per game (or a bit less than that), particularly if Teague comes on strong, and Crawford is burning other teams slap silly.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
6:13 am
Bigdave ,
So Josh Smith takes one three point shot in training camp and he’s “talking out of his ass”? Wow.
But you’re right. Josh is definitely going to gradually creep back out to his “favorite spot” on the floor. The spot where he took a whopping 87 shots out of his total 849 attempts (that’s 10.2%) last year.
vava74
October 6th, 2009
6:49 am
Tony,
I couldn’t disagree more with your post and I find it to be a particularly annoying type of attitude adopted by some Hawks fans.
Just a couple of years ago we were absolutely nobody in this league, a laughing stock of a franchise with no one giving us any chance of making the playoffs.
Last year we were #4 seed and we are looking to improve on that this year and JJ has been the cornerstone of this progress.
Iverson made a good job with Philly, however, it was not him who carried the Sixers to the finals, it was Larry Brown.
Iverson was the leading instrument, Larry Brown the maestro. After Larry Brown left and with a better supporting cast, Iverson led the Sixers where? And when in Denver? And when in Detroit?
To nowhere that’s where!
Right now, we do not have (yet) Woody coaching at Brown’s level, which means that we cannot yet determine how far is JJ able to carry this team.
If Woody evolves as a coach and expands our offensive repertoire, JJ will prove you and other doubters wrong.
You give waaay too much credit to Barkley and Kenny’s remarks during the Miami and the Cleveland series.
Perhaps you did not notice that Barkley “is in bed” with Wade on commercials and probably in social events and that consequently he feels obligated to pat him on his back, forgetting to be objective. Want another example? Just look at Deron Williams remarks on Wade’s tweeter page.
JJ does not belong to the star system (I believe that due to his own particular personal demeanour) and consequently he does not get the media attention and the NBA/refs protection which other guys do.
As for Wade carrying Miami to a title, as far as I remember, two other major factors contributed to that:
1. Shaq still in his prime.
2. The NBA/refs (you can say what you want, but the Mavs were outright robbed in the finals).
In relation to Wade almost beating us with a bunch of bottom dwellers and “has-beens”, you are wrong: the refs kept Miami in the series throughout and we beat them, nonetheless.
The true measure of the two teams quality was game 1 and not the rest of the series since the NBA was trying their best to have a Wade-Lebron duel to boost the ratings.
Hoops
October 6th, 2009
8:06 am
Sign Stackhouse and Siler !!!
jerrywest
October 6th, 2009
8:54 am
3 American college graduates got Noble prize in physics today. I can give you a list of college graduates who got Noble prize.
GeeMack
October 6th, 2009
9:38 am
I MUS WRITE
I think you are short changing the Celtics by picking them to finish 4th in the East. Also remember the Wizards have averaged 44 wins a season prior to last season. They did this 4 straight seasons. If healthy they are just as good as the Hawks if not better.
Daniel
October 6th, 2009
9:39 am
Jerrywest- that would be cool
Vava- I agree with a lot of your post, but I think that some of the Hawks/Heat series was a reflection of where the Hawks are(were?) as a team. Yes, we won 47 (love it) but when we lost, we got blown out! I cannot remember another playoff calibre team that had as many 20 point losses during the season as the Hawks. I think it was a reflection of the youth on this team, which also showed up in the playoffs.
I feel that the team can win 5 more games this season, but the biggest sign of improvement for me will be how do they play during losses.
Can’t wait to watch a little training camp.
Daniel
October 6th, 2009
9:42 am
GeeMack- I hear you on the Celtics, but let’s say one of the top three falls out, which one do you see and why? I agree with Imus on Boston, not saying it will happen, but if I had to pick one.
Also, dude the Wiz are nowhere to the Hawks. Arenas- who knows, front court?- terrible. Butler and Jamison- are nice, that’s it.
Daniel
October 6th, 2009
9:56 am
Big Ray- good point on Hunter. Honestly, I had been thinking he would make the roster, because he could play the swing position. Maybe, I was wrong on that one.
Sekou, where does Woodson see Hunter fitting in, if at all?
J.J.M.
October 6th, 2009
10:06 am
hawks are live on nba.com
MannyT
October 6th, 2009
10:09 am
The link to live streaming of Hawks Camp…RIGHT NOW
http://www.nba.com/realtrainingcamp/
vava74
October 6th, 2009
10:11 am
Daniel,
I think that last year mentally we were not yet “there” and when this is the case, it is very easy to break the spirit out of a team with a few intentionally bad calls like we had in the Miami series.
There is nothing more poisonous than bad refereeing, moreover on a young team which was already missing a member of its starting 5.
We started fine on Game 1 when we showed our true quality: good defence and a good mix of running and half court offence.
Then on Game 2 it was highway robbery from the first minute with bad calls after bad calls both on the defensive and the offensive ends.
A 20 point margin can be built in 10 possessions. If you consistently have 7 or 8 calls going your favour on the offensive end and 7 or 8 calls in the defensive end it is a piece of cake to win.
The same happened when we faced the Cavs, although then the difference between the two teams was substantial, specially in light of the injuries.
Sautee
October 6th, 2009
10:48 am
vava74,
I do NOT want to start another argument, but I can’t let you make statements like:
“In relation to Wade almost beating us with a bunch of bottom dwellers and “has-beens”, you are wrong: the refs kept Miami in the series throughout and we beat them, nonetheless.”
Understand that I have NO problem if you couch this as an OPINION, (and maybe the language translation is in there), BUT you say this as a statement of FACT. Which it is NOT.
Yes, I saw LOTS of bad calls in that series, but I saw plenty for BOTH sides. And I’m no Heat fan, as Wade’s “drama” turns my stomach.
Your statement also ignores the “fact” (which can be supported by game scores) that we all too often played down to the level of our competition. All year. Which was the point I tried to make to you when we argued a few weeks ago.
We’ve discussed this already, and agreed to disagree about the refs. My point here is, that it’s NOT a “fact” that the refs kept Miami in the series.
It’s your opinion.
And you can call ME out anytime I try to use MY opinion as “fact”. In fact, I NEED you to if I stray. It’s happened before, and likely will again. We all do it at times in our haste to post.
Sautee
October 6th, 2009
11:11 am
Manny T,
Thanks for the link
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
11:26 am
If Courtney Sims is #44, color me underwhelmed. It’s only drills, and he’s looked lost a few times.
Sekou Smith
October 6th, 2009
11:38 am
I’d wait on the scrimmage portion of practice before I get over or underwhelmed about anyone Nire. The drills don’t tell the whole story.
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
11:38 am
Big Ray,
I am aware that you are not a lawyer, but you still have to use investigative skills to be a cop. If one can infer that two people are the same person by the way they type, then surely one should be able to detect from and From. I also don’t curse on the blog, and really could give a flip about Stating the Obvious. Only time his name is brought up in my post is if he replies to me. Maybe this will help you. I guess you won’t find many killers or robbers missing details like that. Is that better? It should be rather obvious who posted that. Maybe I chose the wrong profession. Maybe I should have been a cop(detective).
Sekou Smith
October 6th, 2009
11:39 am
http://www.nba.com/realtrainingcamp/
J.J.M.
October 6th, 2009
11:47 am
mario west has lots of energy
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
11:49 am
Rod,
First, you are implying that Ray’s a bad cop because on a blog in his spare time he doesn’t catch every capitalization error in other people’s names and posts? Newspaper articles and books get published with typos all the time. Those people are PAID to catch mistakes like that and they miss details like that with decent frequency. So even if the rest of your logic was sound, that would be a pretty damned thin basis on which to say “I guess you won’t find many killers or robbers missing details like that.”
Second, do you really want us to go back and find instances in the past where you DID make spelling/grammar/capitalization errors? It’s not a stretch to think you might have made a similar mistake that time.
Finally, “Rod From College Park” didn’t curse, but rather quoted/paraphrased STO (who did curse). So there wasn’t even any detail to miss on that front.
Sekou,
Fair enough. When’s the scrimmaging set to start?
Samuel
October 6th, 2009
12:22 pm
I agree that Sims is not impressing. Half court yes, but there are plenty of half court situations in the NBA, especially in the Hawks system. Actually, I didn’t know who he was.
Siler is the only guy fight for a position on the team who is impressing in Half court scrimmage.
Again, he looks like a “no brainer” to me.
Samuel
October 6th, 2009
12:27 pm
Hunter runs the floor good for a big man. He looks like a keeper too.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
12:43 pm
Love it…Bibby repeatedly refusing to let himself be pulled. Good sign that he’s this committed to busting his butt during camp.
cp
October 6th, 2009
12:46 pm
Yea Samuel he really does get up the court. Siler and Hunter look good. RandyMo is lucky he has a guaranteed contract. Mario still brings nothing to the table but energy. Like I have been saying all summer, give me Siler and Hunter.
Throw A Biscuit at Siler
October 6th, 2009
12:55 pm
AND he is Done! lol Dixon never met a shot he didnt like. Crawford fakes so hard he shakes himself out. Sims is just big. Mario does like he is TOLD. I say RIO and O Hunter!
King Beef
October 6th, 2009
12:55 pm
Bibby refused to be pulled and you love it. How about he is selfish and not giving Mike Wilks and Juan Dixon a chance. He already has been grabbing his thumb throughout the scrimmage. It just shows the double standard of Woodson with his veterans and his younger players.
Samuel
October 6th, 2009
12:55 pm
Teague is ok so far but nothing ive seen makes me believe he will push Bibby for any xtra minutes. He will be good for about 15mpg.
Overall,
Hunter and Siler looked like they belong. Everybody else can go. I guess we’re keeping Mario, for what I don’t know. If it means cutting Siler, it’s a bad move. Siler will be pretty much unstoppable down low in a few months.
josh
October 6th, 2009
12:59 pm
Did the stream stop working for anyone else?
darrell starks
October 6th, 2009
12:59 pm
Throw a biscuit at siler CRAWFORD IS THE THIRD BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM BEHIND JOE, AND JOSH, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING DONT LET THAT LITTLE SCRIMMAGE FOOL YOU.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
josh
October 6th, 2009
1:03 pm
Is anyone still watching the scrimmage? My link stopped working.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
1:03 pm
Nope, cut out for me too. I actually wasn’t overwhelmed with any of the invitees nor Morris. My two favs (Horford and JJ) actually looked the least impressive of the front 5, I thought, although it’s obviously pointless to try and gauge anything from watching 10 minutes of scrimmage…
cp
October 6th, 2009
1:04 pm
Samuel I think this is the year that Mario does not make the team. I just don’t see a need for him. Other than playing hard he gives you nothing else. He isn’t very good overall. We agree on keeping Siler and Hunter. Im not impressed with Simms. Dixon looks as bad as he did last season with the Wizards. Horford seems to be showing more post moves than he did last season which is a good sign.
darrell starks
October 6th, 2009
1:05 pm
I like siler 2 samuel.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
1:08 pm
Did anybody else notice that Siler and Collins have almost the exact same body type? That’s 600 pounds on the floor right there, regardless of what their listed weight is…
darrell starks
October 6th, 2009
1:09 pm
Do any one no how much joe smith and jason collins is making?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
1:12 pm
Vet minimum. $825k each out of pocket, and $1.2M (Collins) and $1.3M (Smith) against the cap and tax.
josh
October 6th, 2009
1:13 pm
Bibby, JJ, M Williams, J Smooth, Horford, Crawford, Zaza, Mo Evans, J Teague, Joe Smith, O Hunter, J Collins, G Sillar, M West, J Dixan.
Those are my picks to make the team. What do you guys think?
Timbo
October 6th, 2009
1:14 pm
Smoove looked pretty good out there. Teague and Crawford had their moments also . . .
PDubATL
October 6th, 2009
1:17 pm
Josh, unfortunately Morris has a guaranteed contract and odds are, we won’t carry 15 into the season. You’d have to pick 2 to keep out of Hunter, Siler, West and Dixon.
The truth about ÛfØ by ÛfØ
October 6th, 2009
1:21 pm
Niremetal(my real blog name) is the only one who can predict the future using my opinion and post it as fact. The world will end if we sign Woodson to a long term contract.
josh
October 6th, 2009
1:24 pm
PDubATL, didn’t know about Morris’s guaranteed contract, but don’t teams have a minimum of 12 active players with up to 3 reserves?
Reality
October 6th, 2009
1:26 pm
Final Eastern Confrence Standings:
1)Caviliers
2)Celtics
3)Magic
4)Hawks
5)Wizards
6)Raptors
7)Bobcats
8)Sixers
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
1:26 pm
…alrighty then…
darrell starks
October 6th, 2009
1:30 pm
THANKS NIRE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
PDubATL
October 6th, 2009
1:32 pm
Yes, theoretically we can carry 15, but good teams usually leave a spot available to allow for some flexibility at the trade deadline. 13 or 14 (hopefully) is more realistic.
GeeMack
October 6th, 2009
1:32 pm
Daniel,
If had to pick one on the Big 3 to fall out it would Clevland. Due to Shaq being on borrowed time. However I don’t see either one falling out.
The Wizard are just as talented as the Hawks if not more talented. Daniel think about this….you said their front court is shaky, however (Caron Butler 20ppg 6reb, 4 ast, Jamison 22ppg 8reb, Haywood 10ppg 7reb 1.7 blocks) vs (JSmoove 15ppg 7reb 1stl & 1block, Al 11ppg 9rebs 1 block, & Marvin 13ppg 6rebs) are better than the Hawks. The back courts are even JJ & Bibby vs. Arenas & MMiller. Teague & Crawford are not going to outplay Stevenson & Foye. Remember their young player got some valuable experince last season with all the injuries. They added depth and talent as the Hawks did this summer. That’s why I think they are our competition and not the Big 3 Cle, Bos, Orl.
vava74
October 6th, 2009
1:38 pm
My take on what I saw (chunks of every segment – unfortunately I was busy and I could not see the whole action):
Siler is mainly size. Bad footwork, lack of fundamentals and little vertical leap. In my opinion he would be lost in real game action. Has good attitude but his conditioning is still poor and he is extremely raw.
Sims looks to be a good character but I think he is too slow mentally: looked lost most of the time. His size, body structure and mobility looked very good but I did not see him convert that into production.
Morris seemed to have fairly good fundamentals (footwork, dribble) for his size but lacks energy and does not use his size. He is definitively not a C and seems to be a born underachiever.
West, if he had a resemblance of a jump shot he would be very useful. Since he doesn’t…
Teague, I was a bit disappointed with his performance. Looked a lot like a rookie, but it is too early to tell. His best moves were a few nifty passes which was not what I expected to see (good).
Crawford, looked exactly what he is. A combination of terrific and awful moves. Will produce good numbers as a 6th man. I am glad that he does not need to start.
Otello looked good, very good effort, very alert, awkward jump shot but effective from close. Not a combo forward though! Nonetheless, I believe that he is definitively a keeper (by far the best of the invitees).
The rest are not worth mentioning since they were either irrelevant or I did not catch any action.
Last year’s guys:
J-Smoove continues to whine and question Woody too much. I think he simply cannot help it. He is basically very childish. Looked very good sometimes though.
Marvin looked very poised, very good fundamentals and physically very balanced. I think that, contrary to the majority of the people around here, that he has the potential to become an all-star within less than 3 years.
JJ looked a bit slow in game but focused when he discussed the execution of plays with Bibby proving that they are the team leaders.
Al apparently expanded his repertoire and looked impressive in rebounding at times boxing out really well the other bodies. He looked a bit tired.
Bibby looked good and focused. The key will be to keep him fresh and limit the occasions in which his lack of defence is exposed by the opposition.
Pachulia looked as usual a mix of good and bad things. If only he could lift his ass 5 inches more than he does and hit those jump shots consistently…
I MUS WRITE
October 6th, 2009
2:08 pm
Jeezuz…… Sum people just refuse to be wrong on a topic -even when its right in front of their face in Black and White. Truth- u get an A on your homework, i was to lazy to dig around.Someone reminds me of that know it all kid from my old neighbor hood that constantly got ran home and occasionally whoop’d on for being a smart azz know it all.
They usually grow up and become police or lawyers try’n to get revenge for things that happened to them as a kid.
Braylon Edwards is a real TOUGH GUY……… Yeah- punching a guy in the face thats half your size at 5′7 130 is classic. What a loser I hope they suspend his azz. Im suprised he didnt kill the guy- I mean his haqnds are “MADE OF STONE”
REAL MEN DONT NEED ENTOURAGES…….. Thats why i mostly rock by myself.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
2:08 pm
vava74,
Good analyses. I could take exception to some of them, but at the very least the analyses of Crawford, Morris, Sims, and Siler were spot on, I thought.
On Josh…yeah, that was the first time I saw up close and personal the really, really obvious love-hate relationship that exists between Woody and Josh. Can’t really say who is to blame more. I think Josh gives Woody more grief than anyone else does, but I think Woody also picks on Josh more than anyone else does. But some of the most productive relationships in the history of pro sports have been love-hate relationships between somewhat immature/egotistical and somewhat overdemanding coaches. Cousy and Auerbach, Walton and Ramsay, Iverson/Sheed and Larry Brown, etc…and those are just the ones in basketball that I can think of off the top of my head.
On a related note, it’s no double standard to treat vets different than rookies. It’s the same thing everywhere – from frat houses to pro sports teams to white shoe law firms, newbies are supposed to be seen and not heard. One of my best friends who did well in law school and started up at a prestigious firm in Philadelphia. Within two months, he’d worn out his welcome and was asked to start looking for work elsewhere, in no small part because he spoke out of turn at meetings and pushed back when partners gave him feedback. He told me that he was only doing what he saw the senior associates doing, to which my response was “Yeah – but you weren’t a senior associate.” From a guy who’d been at the firm 5 years that might be ok; for a guy there 5 weeks, not so much. My guess is most people around here have stories like that.
So I guess I should say that if it’s a double standard, then it’s a double standard that’s followed damn near around the world. If Josh were just starting to talk like that now, there probably wouldn’t be an issue, but something tells me that this back-and-forth has been going on pretty consistently since he was a fresh-out-of-HS rookie. That makes
But all that being said, I don’t think Josh is much more childish than most players in the league . But his childishness is brought to the fore more by a coach like Woody, whose needling seems to put Josh on the defensive – and who seems to needle Josh at least a little more than he does most other Hawks. The result seems to be that running back-and-forth between Josh and Woody that shone through during that practice.
I MUS WRITE
October 6th, 2009
2:12 pm
TYGER, U are crazy man…LOL Lazarus LOL……
Reality is Gay
October 6th, 2009
2:13 pm
Final Eastern Confrence Standings:
1)Caviliers
2)Celtics
3)Hawks
4)Magic
5)Wizards
6)Sixers
7)Raptors
8)Bobcats
Ariose
October 6th, 2009
2:20 pm
Othello and Siler looked the best. Mario was his usual self…..but it’s just not gonna cut it this year. Siler is a HORRIBLE FT. Shooter…ugh, Sims wasn’t that great either. Othello runs the floor well and finishes strin, and is good on defense. His FT’s stink too, and his jumper wasnt anything to appluaud(Sims fall in that category too). Morris played beter than the invites if you ask me.
I Say we just Get Gerald Green and Later in the season after Teague has establised himself, we get Bobby Jackson. Othello……maybe if the want to stretch this to 15…..oh ,and I like Collins Jumper, but the man needs to get on a treadmeal like, now.
One thing I will say though, that boy siler is big….thats a biiig boy…
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 6th, 2009
2:24 pm
The live streaming cut off on me too. I was impressed by some things and not so impressed with other things. Overall the live streaming was interesting but got a lil dull at the end. I’m ready for the real action to start. October 28 can’t get here fast enough for me. Oh yeah, I agree with those who feel Othello should get the last spot. From the live streaming he impressed me most.
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
2:31 pm
JUAN DIXON is just a filler at camp. The HAWKS are not serious about having him in any way. If they are then my esteem for this organization goes WAY-Y-Y-Y down!!!!
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
2:33 pm
REAL GAY:
I think you spell your front-runners with an “a”. Like your list though.
Ariose
October 6th, 2009
2:36 pm
“J-Smoove continues to whine and question Woody too much. I think he simply cannot help it. He is basically very childish. Looked very good sometimes though”
Apparently we aren’t watching the same thing. I’m calling your bluff. Smoove did nothing of the sort. He WAS mic’d up so he had to talk a lot, but he seemd to jst be joking. I’m tired of people trying to make him out to be something that he isn’t……and Bibby was complaining just as much…..he was also Grabbing that damn thumb which worries me a little bit.
I was unimpressed with crawford. Our vaunted defense had him flustred the majority of the time. Great ball handler though…..bu he needs some polish…
The reports are all true, teague is lightinig in a bottle. The cat is quick! Didn’t score too much but you can’t do anything with him in the pick N’ roll. He can get wherever he wants on the floor. I liked his vision, he had some very good assists.
Bibby impressed. He got to the hole frequently which is what I was maily looking for out of him. He had great balace between playing off the ball and playing a traditional PG role.
Marvin worked off of the dribble a little bit whic was refreshing to see. His strioke was on point to day. The kid looked good, what more can I say?
Horford looked solid like always, didn’t really get into th offensive flow during what I saw of the schrimmages before they cut the feed.
It’s a shame I didn’t get to see Mo Evans and Joe Smith in action though. I hope that knee thing with Mo doesn’t become an issue. If it does, all the more reason for Rick to go out and aquire mr. $800k!!!!
Smoove looked good and his midrange stroke was sweet today as well. He played pretty well even though his fingers are in that splint thing.
Timbo
October 6th, 2009
2:43 pm
niremetal, I think you nailed it pretty good on the Smoove-Woody dynamic. Their “clashes” (to over-dramatize) during this practice was the reason I was intrigued. They seemed to enjoy needling each other throughout the practice . . . and it was GREAT that both were mic’d up, along with Bibby, since they really are the most vocal trio on the team.
Timbo
October 6th, 2009
2:46 pm
Ariose, I agree. It wasn’t like Smoove was throwing a fit (nothing that was enough to call him “very childish”). He did pretty much needle everyone. And it seemed, to me, to keep his teammates in the practice . . .
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
2:56 pm
I MUS WRITE,
“Jeezuz…… Sum people just refuse to be wrong on a topic -even when its right in front of their face in Black and White.”
“They usually grow up and become police or lawyers try’n to get revenge for things that happened to them as a kid.”
Agreed!!!!!! It’s that gang mentality. Both police and lawyers suffer from it.
Nire,
No comment. I think my post was directed at Big Ray, not you. Gang mentality again.
bigdave
October 6th, 2009
3:00 pm
Ray
i was actually just making light of the photo… a few blogs back i spoke on Josh’s willing maturation and discipline after the comment he made about staying away from the 3 pt. line..
i actually had no idea that was a 3pt attempt pictured so, though i appreciate the stats, im more or less concerned with him roaming outside of 15ft regularly period…
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
3:02 pm
Nire,
“Second, do you really want us to go back and find instances in the past where you DID make spelling/grammar/capitalization errors? It’s not a stretch to think you might have made a similar mistake that time.”
On second thought, since you do have so much time on your hands, yes please go back through all my post and show me where the From in my name was capitalized. It would be very difficult since my handle automatically populates. Good luck. Investigate!!!!!
tyger
October 6th, 2009
3:15 pm
Post-Scrimmage
I like Courtney Sims
Marvin looks good
Teague over-hyped
Siler is BIG
RandMo more active
Crawford fits
Need Stackhouse
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
3:23 pm
Rod,
I never said the “from” in your name, and it’s laughable that to you, the only possible evidence that you made that error this time is if you made the exact same error before. Under that logic, to provide evidence that a person committed assault, the only good evidence that he committed assault before – and not only that, that he committed the previous assault in exactly the same way.
But on the first page that popped up when I searched for your handle, where you make spelling, grammar, capitalization, and various other typo errors:
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2009/07/01/1201-am/comment-page-2/
I’m not saying “Rod From College Park” was you. My point is that it’s not out of the realm of possibility that you might have miscapitalized a word in your name considering that you – like everyone around here – have made more than a couple typos in your life.
And as far as me responding to your post directed at Ray…well, it’s funny. See, this is a public blog, and I didn’t see any disclaimer saying that only Ray was allowed to respond to your post. People respond to posts directed at other people all the time. That’s why this is a blog and not a private message service. I guess the whole blogosphere is one big gang…
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
3:24 pm
*the only good evidence is evidence that
Damn, I made a typo too. Guess I have to turn in my law degree now…
Jin Rummy
October 6th, 2009
3:30 pm
“The Absence of evidence is not edivence of absence.”
thehawk23nuw
October 6th, 2009
3:31 pm
i dont think the hawks are gonna finish ahead of orlando because the big 3 are too good, deep and strong for us to challenge in the regular season plus we still have maybe only the 5th best bench in the east behind the big 3 and washinton, im unsure about are front line and still concern in chemistry problems with the new guys….
jjthehawkfuon
October 6th, 2009
3:33 pm
yea i agree i dont know if are competition will be the big 3 because they are to good to compete with but i think we can get the 4th spot locked up…..
Good pointing out are front line idk how we will compete against the lakers,spurs,magic,and cleveland front court with al and a bunch of old nobodies
Jin Rummy
October 6th, 2009
3:36 pm
“Divison Champs get the top seeds regardless, so we really need to come out of the gate strong and snag that SE dvision title. We have to create a sizeable cushon before Orlando heats up. The Magic will suffer early because of the 10 game Rahsard Lewis suspension, The loss of the playmaking ability of Hedo, Chemistry issues because of all the new players, and the fact that Jameer Nelson isn’t who they think he is(they shoulda kept Rafer)…The #3 seed is ours for the taking, we just need to stay healthy and it’s a done deal.”
I agree with this…
rOd FRoM cOLlEGe pARk
October 6th, 2009
3:38 pm
Go blow Marvin, niremental. Im PERCFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rOd FRoM cOLlEGe pARk
October 6th, 2009
3:39 pm
pERfECt i SaiD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sekou Smith
October 6th, 2009
3:51 pm
The players and coaches knew that the mics were hot today, so they tried to act out a bit more. This was by far the most animated most of these guys have been during camp. It’s been much more of a workmanlike affair up until now. Woody and Josh’s “love-hate” thing has been overanalyzed to death, so I won’t dig into it any more. But I will tell you that like you see on the tube, 10 pounds of mess get added to what’s really there.
The one disappointing thing about today is that the work looked a bit raggedy. They’ve been much sharper. I don’t know if it was the cameras or everyone knowing that it’s game time? Tomorrow’s game against the Hornets should be interesting for so many different reasons.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
3:59 pm
Heh…should have figured those guys were trying to play a bit to the camera.
jerrywest
October 6th, 2009
4:05 pm
I think they put a mic on JJ, but quickly realized they were wasting a mic.
A mic on Al would have been interesting.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 6th, 2009
4:48 pm
Just saw this:
I know Hollinger is a “Hawks pessimist” to put it kindly, but it is valid point:
Question:
You have often stated that nothing has changed for the Hawks. They added Crawford who can take some of JJ minutes without missing a beat and added two quality big men. The Hawks got tired down the stretch. I see this team being in better shape next spring because of fewer minutes for the starters.
John Hollinger (3:26 PM)
Except that they already had one of the league’s most effective sixth men a year ago with Flip Murray, and they still ran Joe Johnson into the ground. not sure how Crawford changes that. As far as adding two “quality” big men, you might want to watch a bit more Jason Collins tape before you go there.
I know he doesn’t account for Teague, but honestly how much can we expect from the 19th pick in the draft for a team trying to make a title run?
Thoughts?
RISE UP
Melvin
October 6th, 2009
5:04 pm
#21,
I think Blog Z stated it the best a “wait and see” approach is the best method. So many folks want to predict what’s going to happen. The game is not decided on paper. The Champs are crowned on the court of play. I think sometimes folks spend way too much time analyzing data, stats and etc. Let these guys play a few games and then we will have REAL sample data to analyze. Offseason and preseason doesn’t count for nothing…
ILL-logical
October 6th, 2009
5:32 pm
We can tell that its preseason because Woodson is spouting the usual bromides about minutes and roles. And as last year proved, it is mostly full of sound and fury yet signifying nothing.
The proof of the pudding so to speak is how Woodson handles the first losing streak or player unrest.Here’s hoping that this year the Hawks experience as well as talent to overcome any setbacks.
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
5:38 pm
Nire,
“I’m not saying “Rod From College Park” was you. My point is that it’s not out of the realm of possibility that you might have miscapitalized a word in your name considering that you – like everyone around here – have made more than a couple typos in your life.”
It is out of the realm of possibility because I told you it was not me. All this other nonsense you are spouting is not relevant. Read this. IT WAS NOT ME. How difficult is that. Because you and Big Ray chose to play Blog bullies and respond to someone else who obviously thinks that you (Nire) are a clown, like I do, don’t try to flex your blog credentials on me. Once agian, I could care less about anything you have to say, and rarely read your post when they don’t pertain to me, so lets keep it that way. I actually have had intelligent conversations with everyone but you, so when I respond to them, I am expecting an intelligent response. Not that garbage that you spout.
“I would be willing to lay 4:1 odds that Josh will never be the leading scorer on a playoff time.” Nire
Why would I respond to someone who makes idiotic statements like this?
terrell barron
October 6th, 2009
5:49 pm
Joe Smith and Zaza must be tight. They’re always cuttin up and having a good time together. Good to see.
ILL-logical
October 6th, 2009
5:57 pm
We can tell that its preseason because Woodson is spouting the usual bromides about minutes and roles. And as last year proved, it is mostly full of sound and fury yet signifying nothing.
The proof of the pudding ,so to speak, is how Woodson handles the first losing streak or player unrest.Here’s hoping that this year the Hawks have the experience as well as the talent to overcome any setbacks.
KevinA
October 6th, 2009
6:10 pm
I am watching the 5:00 replay of the hawks training camp on NBA TV. You keep reading about how hard they work. Looked like a lot of standing around to me. Disorganized and a lost first hr.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
6:30 pm
Context is key, Rod. You’re the only one who dredges up that quote, which you took out of context. My point was that Josh is probably never going to be the leading scorer over the course of a full season (ie the regular season) for a team that makes the playoffs. But it’s pretty clear from your posts that you only read the portions you want to read.
So here’s what we’ve learned from Rod today: Ray is too dumb (or too unobservant) to be a good cop, I’m too dumb/unobservant to be a good lawyer, Rod is too intelligent to make typos, and Rod has managed to carry on intelligent conversations with everyone on this blog but me.
Yup, Ray and I are the arrogant bullies around here.
vava74
October 6th, 2009
6:44 pm
I stand by comments that Josh behaved childishly.
I can give you one perfect example: on a time out woody was explaining a set play and Josh interrupted him asking Woody why would they do it differently, with him staying on a different spot.
I think that the play called for Josh fading and acting like a decoy and Josh’s proposal was for him to remain in the action, something which would clog the paint with him and his match up, preventing the cutter from having space to get the ball.
I think no one here acknowledges Josh as being a great basketball mind, hence, I think he should be the last guy interrupting the HC when he is doing his job during a time out. I think this was symptomatic and along the year it is probably nerve wrecking for Woody (who behaved more patiently that I would).
Another example was when Josh complained that his steal/shot block was not being counted as a defensive stop, when the ball went out of bounds out of his hands… it is obvious that the objective of the exercise was to force a steal, block a ball but inbounds to a team mate or force a bad shot and rebound, not to break a play without getting possession.
Josh’s reaction was again childish since I am sure that he has gone through this exercise dozens of times.
With all the above I am not saying that I was not pleased with Josh’s performance, I am. He looked enthusiastic, fresh, in good shape and with a good stroke.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
6:47 pm
#21,
Like most good on-ball defenders, Jason Collins doesn’t show up in John Hollinger’s PER. Therefore, in John Hollinger’s eyes, he’s a scrub. In any case, I can’t tell whether Hollinger’s retort was that 1) the Hawks’ bench isn’t any deeper than last year’s and/or 2) that even if it is deeper, he doesn’t see it making a difference.
If it’s the first point, he’s just nuts. Because even if Crawford doesn’t give us anything more than Flip did, certainly Joe Smith, Jeff Teague, and Jason Collins will give us more than Solomon Jones, Acie Law, and Randolph Morris did last year. Considering that RandMo is getting pushed further to the end of the bench and that 2 guys who made the roster last year are facing long odds to make the cut this year, he’d be crazy not to recognize that the team is deeper.
If it’s the second, then he is only right if Woody’s use of an 8-man rotation stemmed from a reluctance to use a deep bench in general rather than simply his reluctance to use a deep bench given the players he had. Whether that’s true or not, we’ll see. I honestly don’t know how Woody will use his bench…I do still fear that he’ll use an 8-man rotation all year. We’ve seen that movie before: “We needed to start the year strong…I wanted Joe, Josh, and Mike to get a shot at making the All-Star team…we needed to fight for our playoff spot…we needed to fight for home-court.” Only time will tell, but Sund was smart to bring in two vets and a rookie that Woodson publicly praised, because that puts the pressure not to overwork the starters squarely back on Woodson’s shoulders.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 6th, 2009
7:38 pm
Nire,
I’m all over the +/-’s of Hollinger’s per. I guess I used it as a launching pad to examine what I presume we’ve been doing this whole time: are the additions worth anything. Basically I see it as the Hawks “may” only have down to go. I can wrap myself up in Hawks basketball as much as anyone, but it is a legitimate thought. The “Big 3″ in the east all added starters- point in fact, they upgraded. I don’t question whether our depth got better or whether on a given night we can compete with them, I just wonder is it enough to do it over the course of a season? Jamal is good but Shaq, VC, Sheed (former Hawk) he is not. Hollinger might have nailed it with him being a glorified Flip- not an insult, but still leaves something to be desired. Having lived in NJ and seen more Nets ball than I would have liked- Collins is really not that good. Defender- sure ish, but I don’t know that our team is built for complete non entities on offense. I ask again, how much to expect from Teague. Joe Smith should be solid and truly represents something new/desireable for the team, but he’s a 7th man at best…
This all brings it to Woody. Will we be content to hang on/fight for the 4 spot, or as I believe may still be necessary to ascend, he ride the starters still in an effort to win the extra 9 ish games it would take to unseat Orlando (re: win SE division) and shuffle the pecking order. My Joe Johnson fantasy numbers in March/April are dying to know….
RISE UP
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
7:38 pm
Nire,
Stop bringing other people into the coversation. My last post was directed at you Nire(clown). Your lunchroom buddy ,BUBBA crew member, gang leader…… was not addressed.
“So here’s what we’ve learned from Rod today: Ray is too dumb (or too unobservant) to be a good cop, I’m too dumb/unobservant to be a good lawyer, Rod is too intelligent to make typos, and Rod has managed to carry on intelligent conversations with everyone on this blog but me.”
Actually I never called Big Ray dumb or unobservant, you did. I stated that you both are great at determining who is blogging as other people because of the context or words used, that it was shocking to me that you two could not determine that it was not me. Then I told you it wasn’t me and you still had something to say. Correction: I have had intelligent coversations with everyone except you and Stating the Obvious. Glad you learned something today. If you can learn something new everyday, you will be a very smart man.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
7:59 pm
Maybe this will help you. I guess you won’t find many killers or robbers missing details like that. Is that better? It should be rather obvious who posted that. Maybe I chose the wrong profession. Maybe I should have been a cop(detective)…
It’s that gang mentality. Both police and lawyers suffer from it…
Because you and Big Ray chose to play Blog bullies…
Your lunchroom buddy ,BUBBA crew member, gang leader…… was not addressed.
Yeah, you weren’t talking down to Ray at all in there.
Night night, Rod.
ÛfØ
October 6th, 2009
8:35 pm
«¤¤ª¤¤ª¤¤º¤¤»
GØ HÅWK§
ÛfØ
October 6th, 2009
8:37 pm
ßÊ ÇØØL
Ariose
October 6th, 2009
9:26 pm
Vava, actually I think Josh was asking why he couldn’t stay spotted up in the corner and woodson said “because whe he puts the shot up, I want you in there.”
The questionable complainf from Josh that I observed was this one:
Fast break drill. Josh defending, pretends to jump. Player floats the ball over a non-jumping Josh. “Come on Smooth!” Woodson. “What’s he want me to do.” Josh Smith. Long pause. “It was a good floater.” Sigh.
As far as him complainig about calls, THE WHOLE STARTING LINEUP WAS DOING IT. Thats just being competitive. They just don’t like to loose. Even the greatest players in the game(MJ etc.) constanly work the officals.
And what about Michael Bibby?
Mike Woodson: “Get Mike out of there.” Mike Bibby: “No, I’m not coming.” Bibby stays in the scrimmage, his breathing disturbingly heavy and high in the mix.
??? Is THAT not “Childish”???
MyView
October 6th, 2009
9:28 pm
Something special is brewing with this Hawks team. I never usually get into B-Ball until the college football regular season ends. I’m already in mid-season form. LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!
Stanky leg
October 6th, 2009
9:29 pm
Enter your comments here
Big bad Ray the blog Bully
October 6th, 2009
9:30 pm
DEAR ROD
The blog principal made me write you this letter. Sorry that I took your blog lunch money and kicked blog sand in your face. I did not know you were going to cry. I thought it was funny until the snot started running out of your nose and really that was kind of gross. The blog principal saw me and now I have to stay after blogging for blog detention. I guess I deserved it. The blog principal said I should know better than to pick on kids that come off of the blog short bus. The blog principal says they are really sensitive. I do not know what that means. I guess it means snot comes out of their noses really easy and they like to lick the windows when they are riding the blog bus. I hope we can be blog friends. Please do not bring that doll with the pins stuck in it to the blog sand box tomorrow. The blog principal says it is a doo doo or voo doo doll or something like that. The blog principal says they saw you in the bathroom with it and you were calling it marvin and sticking the pins in it like a mean person. I do not know anybody named marvin in blog class so I guess that is the name of your doll. See you at the blog sand box tomorrow after blog class. Tell your friend sam that everybody thinks its funny when he wears his pants backwards every day. Sam says you are the one who told him to wear his pants like that and his hiney hurts every time he wakes up from blog nap time. I think that is weird. Here is your blog lunch money back. Sorry I took it.
signed,
Big bad Ray the blog Bully
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
9:33 pm
so Stackhouse was never planning on coming here what was the piont of him on our court.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
9:40 pm
VaVa74 ,
The day that asking questions and/or contending with a play becomes “childish” is the day they can shut the NBA down. Yes, Woody is being patient. Coaching requires patience.
No, Josh is not a “great basketball mind”, but he’s not as dull as people want to make him out to be, either. Josh doesn’t have a low IQ. He’s impatient. Impatience is like being impetuous. “Haste makes waste”, and all that. Want an example?
You should have seen Tony Parker when he first came in the league. Gregg Popovich said he wanted to tear his hair out every freaking day. Imagine Larry Brown and Iverson. Philly doesn’t make it to the Finals that one year without Larry Brown’s patience.
Call it what you will, but former championship-winning Pistons coach Chuck Daly (RIP) said it best:
“This is a player’s league. If the players don’t respect you, then you will not go far.”
Patience is one thing that earns respect.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
9:43 pm
Have to echo Ariose . A veteran player is asked or told to come out of the game, and he refuses.
If what Josh does is immature and childish, then what do we call it when a veteran (who should know better, and should be setting an example) can’t comply with a simple directive?
Let’s not split meaningless hairs here.
Bottom Line : This is training camp. And the players and coaches know they are on camera and on the mic. Not only are they playing up to it, but I’d also rather these things take place in training camp, then during a regular season or playoff game.
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
9:46 pm
Lookout big 3 or whoever is in the way the HAWKS are coming and we want the title. GO HAWKS!!!
MyView
October 6th, 2009
9:55 pm
I don’t understand why people are crying about anything more than a 12 or 13 man roster. I will just be happy to see Woody routinely play 10 guys. That alone would satisfy me.
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
10:10 pm
I dont have all the facts or any inside info all i know is this is going to be a fun year.Yeah I know there teams that might be better, all we need to do is step it up and eveything will fall into place.
THE HAWKS WILL BE A PROBLEM and NO ONE WILL STOP THEM. no it does’nt matter who won last year the hawks will crush them and throw their dust into the wind. oh yeah screw those espn writers who hate.Never turn your back on a hawk
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
10:14 pm
What was funny was when Woody was demonstrating how he wants his guys to fight through screens and try to force the opposing player who is trying to get the ball away from the passing lane, and Josh grabbed Woody and was pushing him all over the court.
Woody was laughing, and you could hear Josh saying to JJ, “I got you dog, I had to get you open, coach I had to get him open…you want him to score, right? ”
That was funny as hell….
rich
October 6th, 2009
10:24 pm
Big Ray enjoyed the last points .
These players have egos are they wouldn’t be at this level. It’s coach’s job to point , correct , guide them toward the same goal . Woody seems to be doing more than people give him credit.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
10:38 pm
Sorry Ray, you know I gotta split that hair
.
To spin off on my post from earlier…there is a difference between veterans and youngsters, in all fields and all sports. I talked about the non-sports world before, but I’ll talk a bit about sports this time.
In baseball, a respected veteran starting pitcher usually can stay in the game if he is tiring a bit, even when the manager comes to take him out, basically by telling the manager “no.” Jack Morris became famous for doing that starting around the middle of his career, as was Ellis Kinder on the Red Sox back in the 40’s and 50’s – neither was a Hall of Famer, but both had built up the ‘player’s capital’ needed to tell a manager “no.” But if a less experienced pitcher tries to do that, he’s labeled “brash” and “petulant.”
Similarly, in football, a respected veteran quarterback feels more comfortable calling an audible, and will get less flak if the audible backfires than a rookie who does the same thing. Dennis Green gave Randall Cunningham MUCH more freedom than he gave Jeff George and, especially, Daunte Culpepper.
No different in basketball – Bibby the vet can say “no, leave me in,” at least during training camp (this might be a different story in the regular season), and it’ll be seen as a “veteran’s prerogative” by all involved. But if a guy with less built-up capital tried the same thing, he’d be labeled as brash at best and disrespectful or “childish” at worst.
Sekou can correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I don’t think that the different standards for vets and youngsters is something that most players are much bothered by – heck, they push it by making rookies the towel boys. So if they don’t view it as something unfair, why should we?
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
10:56 pm
ROD from COLLEGE PARK:
Dude, chill. Don’t be one of the two participants in a blog-fight no one can win. NIRE’s cool, as is BIG RAY. Just give them a chance. You sound like me man. When I first found SEKOU’s blog two years ago, I called out H.B. ANDO, and then had to apologize for comments made by myself. It’s a no win situation. Disagree if you will, but if you root for the HAWKS remember everybody here’s in it together. BTW, I’m a BRAVES fan who roots for the HAWKS and the ‘ZARDS also. I’m in RICHMOND, you’re in College Park, no?
Melvin
October 6th, 2009
11:08 pm
They are rebroadcasting the Hawks training camp session from earlier today on NBATV right now (11-1).
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
11:17 pm
BTW RAY, I’m not rich, and richbrave is the only way I’ll come ‘atcha.
richbrave
October 7th, 2009
12:08 am
INTERESTING TAKE FROM BUCK’S DIARY. Anybody know this guy?
Ten Toxic NBA Contracts
1. Gilbert Arenas… $96.3 million through 2014
Comment: Good player. Terrible contract. I wouldn’t wish that used refrigerator onto the back of my worst, most hated enemy. This contract could destroy the good thing the Bullets Wizards seem to be building in Washington.
2. Rashard Lewis… 85.2 million through 2013
Comment: See Arenas, Gilbert.
3. Andrea Bargnani… 56.5 million through 2015
Comment: This contract doesn’t look horrible monetarily, but when you consider that the promisee is a serious loss producer, and a perennial member of my “20 Most Harmful” lists, any premium — no — any long term deal involving this player is a bad, toxic deal.
4. Richard Hamilton… 49.4 million through 2013
Comment: Hamilton’s been a fine, average win producer. But he’s nearing the end of his productive road, and his contract and payments due are not. Bad combo.
5. Stephen Jackson… 35.3 million through 2013
Comment: See Bargnani, Andrea.
6. Baron Davis… 53.8 million through 2013
Comment: Davis is a very productive player when he is healthy and motivated. However, he’s injury prone, and last season he was terrible. On top of that he is aging at a position where age catches up to and erodes a player’s win production capacity very quickly.
7. Josh Smith… 47.2 million through 2013
Comment: An overbloated contract for an overrated, inconsistent player. Smith shows up when he wants to show up. Unfortunately for Atlanta, his wages are due either way.
8. Monta Ellis… 55.0 million through 2014
Comment: Here’s another case where we have a potentially productive player, but one who is paid beyond his productive capacity. Ellis is due to be paid like a consistent high win producer, but he has not proven he can consistently deliver high wins.
9. Danny Granger… 59.8 million through 2014
Comment: A useful player, but way overpaid. Here’s a case where, like the Michael Redd deal, high scoring capacity got confused with high win capacity.
10. Luol Deng… 61.8 million through 2014
Comment: Again, I like Deng (when healthy), but not at the numbers he’s due to be paid. In fact, I think as the NBA’s economic structure changes over the next couple years, a contract of this size would be too much to offer even an elite player. By 2012 the Bulls will regret the deal, if they don’t have the foresight to regret the deal already.
I MUS WRITE
October 7th, 2009
2:19 am
Gee Mack- After watching the Celtics in training camp you may be right. I still think they finish behind Orlando and Cleveland….Orlando upgraded the most IMO so its a toss up between them and Cleveland. We will be fighting Washington off all year for #4 most likely.
I think Chicago may move into the 6th seed they look good against Utah even tho it wuz preseason. James Johnson looks like a yung Ron Artest,He might be just as good as Beasley if not better. Healthy Deng,and Pargo….They look good on paper
VAVA- Josh is okay,just clowning around i mean he is 23yo so……..
ROD- Just let it go man,Robin and Perry Mason have special powers….
Richbrave- i cant believe they have Granger on that list. I was with him for a minute until I saw Granger and to a certain degree Josh.
I MUS WRITE
October 7th, 2009
2:27 am
O yeah, After watching camp I would go with O.Hunter maybe Sims and sign either Green/Stackhouse leaving one roster spot open for the trade deadline.
PDubATL
October 7th, 2009
8:43 am
If Mo’s knees are going to be a problem for him this season (a la Speedy) we’ll need to seriously think about picking up a 3rd SF.
niremetal
October 7th, 2009
9:07 am
Also #21 – the biggest reason that Hollinger has no credibility? The fact that he singled out Zaza as looking older than his listed age. Because he clearly is the only big man in the NBA who looks older than he is. It’s not like Greg Oden already looks 36 or anything…or that Tim Duncan has always looked 10 years older than he is…
ILL-logical
October 7th, 2009
9:44 am
After watching the broadcast of the Hawks’ practice session, I came away with these thoughts:
As NBA teams feature more open court ,spread offenses, the Hawks should continue to be a successful franchise because of the roster’s talent as well as experience.However, the team’s current starting line up is still undersized and will suffer accordingly against the “big boys” who employ skilled bigs that posse both heft and height.
The new found front court depth will help especially against West Coast teams that play a style that is better suited to the current line up’s skill set ie, small ,quick frontline.
4th place in the playoff seatings is achievable but it will not be easy because of the increased level of competition. This year the Hawk’s will have to work even harder to achieve the same results but they can do it.And if Lady Luck favors them, they can do even better.
Melvin
October 7th, 2009
10:16 am
Where’s the heck is Astro/Anakin Joe? Did all this talk about Crawford make him sick?
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 7th, 2009
10:32 am
I hear you, but seriously fellas I have 100% confidence in Zaza’s listed age (wink, wink). I’ll take him on my team in reasonable 4 year increments though, 2007-08 notwithstanding.
RISE UP
Sautee
October 7th, 2009
10:41 am
Melvin,
Been wondering the same thing myself. I was just about to post it when the phone rang (Ray), and then I updated and saw your post. Strange. I hope all is well with our favorite contrarian.
Melvin
October 7th, 2009
10:44 am
Sautee,
Agreed. It’s unlike for him to be away from the scene this long. Hopefully everything is ok with him…
What is a vet?
October 7th, 2009
10:45 am
niremetal& vava74. Josh Smith is a 6 year NBA player. He is a veteran. Do you think he is the only person who questions Woody’s plays in the huddle? Why are fans here not more upset that he is obviously more of a leader in practice than Joe. Bibby and Josh set the tone for practice pushing other players not Joe or Al. The double standards here are amazing. Al can say something when he was a rookie or 2year player but Smith as a 6 year vet can’t. Also, players do get upset by double standards. Sekou has written about this in the past. This has been an ongoing problems for the Hawks. Ask Sekou.
Daniel
October 7th, 2009
10:46 am
Is the Hawks game going to be televised?
Spud Webb
October 7th, 2009
10:48 am
I’m curious to see how Woody f’s this thing up. He’ll under-utilize someone and run his normal “clear it out” offense and hope.
Good lord, i’m not sure how anyone thinks/believes that w Woody running this ship that thinks will get much better.
NOW IS THE TIME, we have a LOT Of talant, role players and STUDS, please, please, please just let Woody go right now.
dap01
October 7th, 2009
10:55 am
The Hawks are were a 4th place east team last year. To that we have added Teague, Crawford, Collins and Smith. Teague is better than AC, Crawford is better than Flip, Collins is better than Solo, Smith is better than ______. In addition, the starting 5 will all be better with maturity and chemistry. The Celtics are older, Orlando added mr. non chemistry in Carter and Cleveland added an aging Shaq.
We got into the 2nd round with 3 injured starters and a team that was tired from the overuse.
Well this year we will not have to overuse the team and we will be deeper and fresher going into the playoffs. I am very optimistic. Why all of the rankings? Why all of the discussion? We are better than last year. We will win more games this year. We will be in better position to face Cleveland, Orlando, Boston or anyone else.
Sund has done an excellent job. I am optimistic that Woody will get the team to improve.
Hoops
October 7th, 2009
10:57 am
Just looking ahead-
If Miami has a really bad season this year, which is possible, what team will D. Wade sign with next summer? He may be the best FA All-Star that will want to change teams.
Daniel
October 7th, 2009
11:24 am
Hoops- I think it will be the Nets.
darrell starks
October 7th, 2009
11:41 am
Hoops i think it can be the hawks but if i was gm i would trade joe for igg and let marvin walk next year and sign D WADE WHAT YOU THINK HOOPS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 7th, 2009
11:44 am
HOOPS I WOULD LIKE THIS TEAM
STARTE BIBBY, D WADE, IGG, JOSH, HORFORD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
niremetal
October 7th, 2009
12:06 pm
What is a vet,
I said this in my earlier post:
If Josh were just starting to talk like that now, there probably wouldn’t be an issue, but something tells me that this back-and-forth has been going on pretty consistently since he was a fresh-out-of-HS rookie.
People who are viewed as young, brash, and petulant early on usually retain that rep even when they grow up. Allen Iverson and Terrell Owens are exhibits 1A and 1B. Now again, I don’t think Josh is that bad, but it’s not like these clashes just started last year. I remember them happening starting in his second year (and for all I know, they may have happened even when he was a rook).
My guess is that Mike Bibby didn’t talk to Rick Adelman even after he’d been in the league three years. Webber, Divac, and Christie were the guys that had seniority, not him. He seemed to be relatively quiet on the court back then. But by the end of the Kings’ mini-dynasty, when those guys had moved on or moved down, he became more vocal on and off the court.
And perhaps most importantly, who ever said this was an all-or-nothing thing? I bet Josh could get away with it moreso than Othello Hunter or Jeff Teague could. There’s no bright line. The longer you’re in the league and the more minutes you play, the more capital you build up. Bibby has more capital than anyone on the team, because he’s a veteran, a starter, and someone with experience on elite teams.
Also, the tone of your voice and the timing of your words makes a difference, as does how often you make your voice heard. My guess is that Horford doesn’t jabber nearly as much as Josh (or Bibby) does and he probably never talks in situations where his words could be taken as a challenge to Woody’s authority. That’s just speculation, but if Horford gets away with stuff that Josh can’t (which I can’t speak to), it’s an explanation that makes sense based on how things work in the rest of the world.
It’s not an exact science. But in basketball as anywhere, vets can get away with stuff that less experienced players can’t. I think it’s starker than it is in most places because of Woody, but I also think that on any team in the league, Bibby would be able to get away with stuff that Josh couldn’t.
niremetal
October 7th, 2009
12:07 pm
*My guess is that Mike Bibby didn’t talk to Rick Adelman even after he’d been in the league three years the way he talks to Woody now.
Truth-Serum
October 7th, 2009
1:03 pm
Boy, Acie Law looked good in his rookie scrimmaging. Rumeal Robinson looked even better…
Here’s to you Mr Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you can know, Where have you gone Mr Robinson,
Sekou turns his lonely eyes to you…God bless you please Mr. Robinson, (join in anytime guys) heaven holds a place for those who pray, for a center, in Atlanta, hey hey hey.
What is a vet?
October 7th, 2009
1:24 pm
This is exactly my point. “Your guess” We don’t know. You do realize that Woodson got into with Salim,Zaza, Al Harrington,Shelden, Marvin, Acie and AJ among others. You have a valid point about being a vet. Also about your tone and appproach which are all things Smith probably needs to work on. I just think you judge him more harshly than other players. Hey, we can agree to disagree but everyone on the team has their flaws. Also, the coach plays a major part regarding the situation. When the other team got a stop and the ball went out of bounds Woodson gave them credit. When the starters did it he didn’t. I don’t see what is wrong about questioning that. To Woodson’s credit not giving his starters fouls going to the basket will probably make them tougher during an actual game.
Dezz Nuttz
October 7th, 2009
1:25 pm
Non mentol neefs ot giet a lief. Howe kan eone man hae so Mochud ree tome.
Mike N.
October 7th, 2009
1:27 pm
Where have you gone, Anakin Joe
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
What’s that you say, Mr. Robinson
Anakin Joe has left and gone away
Hey, hey, hey…hey, hey, hey
Lou Hudson(co-signed by pistol pete)
October 7th, 2009
1:32 pm
Somebody tell that son of a B!tch Sund that my man Woodson cant win in this league with out a center. Who in the L can win a championship with this mediocre powerforward at center. Its amazing what Woodson has done with that guy at the post. On a championship hawk team hes a backup behind Josh so how can this SOB be the starting center and we have serious aspirations about a championship….what the L?
Bob Weiss
October 7th, 2009
1:45 pm
Its amazing what a non story Woodson is outside of this blog’s hate cell. Youd think there was a controversy or that Woodson had failed terribly to help the kids grow up and stay focused on the game while increasing there talents,unity and win totals every year. Excuse me. This guy with number 9 in the NBA coaches poll and highly acclaimed by sports journals. Why is there such an obsession with him here in this hate cell lead by the bubba posse? Out side of this hate circle there is no Woodson issue.
If the bubba crew gets woodson fired can I have my job back? They liked me better.
Bob Weiss
October 7th, 2009
1:48 pm
Their talents
vava74
October 7th, 2009
1:51 pm
Ariose,
Thank for the correction on the play Woody called. I still consider that he should not question the way his coach designs plays, much less when he has a mic on him and being broadcasted live.
Also, from what you describe of the play, Woody was right and Josh wrong.
In relation to the second part of my post, I did not mentioned that Josh was questioning a call by a ref, which is something he does too often and does not know how to do properly – if you want to do it, you need to be smoother and not have so many outbursts which single him out as a whiner.
What I mentioned on my post was an episode where after a call by Woody during an half court scrimmage exercise where a team had to get a defensive stop to get the ball back (or 2, I don’t remember exactly), Josh questioned the rules of the exercise.
Again, I would like to say that I liked what I saw from him in general, however, I expected him to be more mature.
Big Ray,
I never said that Josh was dumb, but that his knowledge of BBall is limited. He is a physical freak and should learn how to use his ability better than he does.
Also, your examples is spot on and in my favour: Tony Parker learned the game and certainly stopped questioning Pop soon after his entry into the NBA. Now look at him and at his rings.
Iverson never really learned the game (this is a team sport) and after he lost Larry Brown’s tutelage his career headed only one way…
Josh has been around sufficient years to learn to behave. He does not seem to be evolving on that front and that, I can guarantee you, will hinder his career if he does not make amends immediately.
What is a vet?
If you think that questioning your Coach is being more of a leader in the team, then nothing that I can say to you will make a difference.
BBall is a team sport, hence the practice of coordinated movements (plays) is essential for the success of the team.
Bob Weiss
October 7th, 2009
1:58 pm
Woodson recommending fighting though picks? hummm I thought the bubba crew said he was recommending switching. Oh. That was one of their many smear tactics. By the way it wont be difficult to force Horford the power forward around in the paint. I agree with Lou Hudson(co-signed by pistol pete) At his true best horford is a backup pf behind Josh on a championship caliber team. The fact that hes a starting center on the hawks speaks volumes about their level of play.
wordsmithtom
October 7th, 2009
1:59 pm
No center? Would you kindly explain, Sweet Lou, how our center is only 1 inch shorter and 10 lbs lighter than one of the two best centers of the last decade: Tim Duncan? Hmmmm. Maybe he’s not your idea of a center; but the Hawks have a center, and a good young one; one with heart…one with game. Keep smokin what you’re smokin’
Enter your comments here
Truth-serum
October 7th, 2009
2:01 pm
Or lack thereof Mr Weiss
Lou Hudson
October 7th, 2009
2:08 pm
Size in not the only physical necessity for being a center. Its amazing that you would even argue a point that is clear and obvious to most professional sports journal. Horford is undersize,underweight and a power forward with limited offensive skills. No brainer. I like the guy but he’s not a center, but a decent powerforward. I wish you understood the center player and positon better. When you do, come back and will have the conversation on the more mature level.
Bob Weiss
October 7th, 2009
2:11 pm
Bob Weiss
October 7th, 2009
1:45 pm
This guy was number 9
Samuel
October 7th, 2009
2:17 pm
Alright you “Scrubbs”,
The official Fantasy League for this year is up and running. A lot of you guys like to talk sh_t.
Go to yahoo Fantasy basketball:
http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/
League name: SekousBloggers
User ID#:213814
password: hawks
We’ll start with the 1st ten, if we need to expand, we will.
niremetal
October 7th, 2009
2:24 pm
What is a vet,
I don’t see how I’m being harsh on Josh. Again, if you’ll read my post from yesterday on this, I said that I actually don’t think that Josh is much more childish than most NBA players are, and that I think Woody needles and picks at Josh at least somewhat moreso than he does with other players. Don’t see how that’s judging him harshly at all.
The ONLY point I was making is that there’s no inherent hypocrisy or unfairness in the fact that Bibby gets away with stuff that Josh doesn’t couldn’t, unless you want to condemn nearly every team sport (be it baseball, football, or basketball), profession (be it retail work, a law firm, or the US Senate), and social group (be it a frat, singing group, or music roadies) for treating vets and newbies differently.
Zaza Pachulia
October 7th, 2009
3:30 pm
Look, I really can jump more than 3 inches. I tipped the meter at four once, in high school. Yes, I can run, try me, say “free hamburgers” Im there. Who cares if I cant shoot, run, block shots? Who care if everybody dunks on me? Huh? Who freakin cares? We are only going to finish in fourth place and bow out in the second round anyway. The bottom line is I got my pay check. Thats why Josh and I are fooling around, we got paid!” So stop hating me on this blog. So what in my second year I became the hawks starter and now Im just a back up, who cares? I got paid! Call me Koncak if you like. Well maybe I am a lot like him. Cant run,shoot jump or free throw, but we both got paid.!!!
Hoops
October 7th, 2009
3:38 pm
Daniel,
I think for D. Wade to be interested in the Nets, they are going to have to really have a break out season. D. Wade wants to go to a contender!
If the Hawks have a break out season and have a choice between re-signing JJ or going after D. Wade, it will be real interesting to see which player they go after!
darrell starks,
I believe I would have to get more than Iggy for JJ. I really believe the Hawks will have so much balance this season that many teams will have a tough time matching up with their depth! I don’t see the Hawks trading JJ at all this season. I think he is too valuable to loose right now!
Daniel
October 7th, 2009
3:44 pm
thanks samuel!!!
Mike Woodson
October 7th, 2009
3:47 pm
Well you guys have given me and my players a hard time with this Bubba Crew stuff. Im going to shake things up this year to win your support. You know how important you are to me…
Koncak..Im mean ZaZa is moving to small forward to help when I do my switching defense you guy like so much. Im going to post bibby up to save time since they are going to back him down anyway. Josh is moving to the point. sh!t he always leads the breaks any way. Ive got Chilldress in three point country. He should get four if he makes shots from Europe. Ive got horford coming of the bench. I figure if he sits next to ZaZa’s hamburger bag he may gain weight. Im going to bench JJ also because you guys are upset that he did not sign his contract. That should teach him, by time I let him off the bench he will sign. NO SIGN NO PLAY!
All and all this should be an exciting year. I look forward to you guys supporting me and the team like you always do….You guys are really sharp. By taking all of the advice you offer here im sure to be………
out of coaching next year.
Thanks guys.
Why is Bob Weiss licking his chops?!
Lou Hudson.
October 7th, 2009
3:49 pm
Ditto on the JJ too valuable a part of the hawks. Nice, quiet leadership!
hawks_4_life
October 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
Samuel
I dont write alot due to the fact im deployed, am I welcome to play in the league too?
Doug
October 7th, 2009
4:03 pm
Sweet Lou: Have to agree that your point is, at best, overstated. Horford is playing center and playing it better that over half the centers in the league statistically. Is Greg Oden a center?? 8 ppg- 7 rpg- 1 bpg?? So he’s not equal to Duncan, Dwight, Shaq…a few more…let’s get Erik Dampier and throw his useless 7′1″ 285 lbs frame out ther?? There are alot of different ways to get the job done…ask Dave Cowens….could he be a better power forward? Yes. Would it be ideal if we had a 7′0″ 290 pounder at center? Depends…on who it is and how they would function with the other parts.
Lou Hudson.
October 7th, 2009
4:25 pm
Doug. You and I agree…well almost completely. There are quite a few power forwards acting as centers. On that we agree. It makes it easier for horford to compete because so many of the lesser teams use the PF to play center. My charge is to get to the higher levels and compete you have to have a center. Ive clearly said that being a center in not synonymous with a certain physique. Of course it does not hurt to be 275,7′ and athletic. Not at all. but that’s not a center totally. Its a natural position just like point guard is a natural position. Im not going to waste the energy to enlighten the less knowledgeable as to what those characteristics are. Just suffice it to say Horford is a power forward and a good one, but not great. Josh is better.
Horford is no center.
Bottom line is I agree with your view, almost totally, however I feel it is easier to win without a point guard than it is to win (championships) with out a center.
Samuel
October 7th, 2009
4:33 pm
Hawks 4 life,
We’d be honored to have a “real vet” like yourself. Warning though, no mercy!!
Rick Marcel
October 7th, 2009
4:33 pm
Enter your comments here Realize it was no actual game situation, but Dixon looked awfully good on the NBA training camp last evening.Needs to find that right situation.
Lou Hudson.
October 7th, 2009
4:42 pm
Just pull this(wiki) for conversation, by the way when horford averages 17.6 points and 13.6 rebounds then I call him a natural center. You make my point about natural ability. I don’t think Horford is to be compared to Dave. Even in Cowens rookie year he was 17ppg and 15 rbpg. Horford was nowhere near those numbers. Neither can he be compared to Moses who was even smaller in his rookie year. Both Cowens and Malone were natural center who thrived and produced great numbers. Its a natural position. Not completely about size.
Horford is a power forward. Please don’t dishonor Cowens and Moses with those comparisons. Hes not close to there league.
NBA career
Despite some critics who felt Cowens was too small to play center, Cowens was selected as the fourth overall pick by the Boston Celtics during the 1970 NBA Draft, largely at the recommendation of former Celtics center Bill Russell.[1] During his rookie year, Cowens averaged 17.0 points per game and 15.0 rebounds per game, and shared the NBA’s Rookie of the Year honors with Portland’s Geoff Petrie. He also led the league in personal fouls that same year.
In 1973, Cowens averaged 20.5 ppg and 16.2 rpg while helping the Celtics to a league best 68-14 record. He was chosen the NBA MVP as well as MVP of the All-Star Game that same season.
During his NBA career, Cowens averaged 17.6 points and 13.6 rebounds per game, was selected to seven All-Star Games, was named to the All-NBA Second Team three times, and was named to the All-NBA Defensive First Team in 1976 and All-NBA Defensive Second Team in 1973 and 1980. He was a member of the Celtics’ 1974 and 1976
Lou Hudson.
October 7th, 2009
4:43 pm
Their league
The non mental prophet
October 7th, 2009
4:47 pm
I predict the world will end Oct 31. Please stay home.
hawks_4_life
October 7th, 2009
5:25 pm
Samuel
Its on!!!
GA Bulldawg
October 7th, 2009
5:30 pm
ÛFØ asked: Should JJ be traded?
Well let me ask you this: Are you ready to face the possibility that the Hawks will be trading for a one-way ticket to the NBA draft lottery if this occurs?? Are you aware that he is the reason our team made the playoffs the last 2 seasons? Do you realize that the Hawks management will lose most of the fanbase if JJ is traded??
Doug
October 7th, 2009
6:04 pm
Lou: Some good points..I do not agree that it is easier to win w/o a pg than without a Center—The reality is teams have won multiple championships without true centers—The Bulls with Longley, Cartwright, etc—yes they had Jordan, Pippen and they also had only serviceable PG’s–In the NBA it is ALL about match-ups and teams have won with Kendrick Perkins at center and Derrick Fisher at PG–is there star power at the other match-up spots?? I think you will see in the range of 14 -12 averages for Horford this year…please remember that Cowens played in an inflated numbers era as well…
Sekou Smith
October 7th, 2009
6:51 pm
New blog is up if you wanna migrate over. New blog up.
Lou hudson
October 7th, 2009
10:41 pm
Lets not say well Horford is going to score 14 ppg and 12 rbpg this year and that possibility puts him near Cowens and Malone. No, his numbers are mediocre and he compiled them playing against mediocre competition. People constantly say that Horford’s numbers are decent against the weak centers of the league not realizing that if hes got average numbers against weak competition them he must be the average Al or less. Even if he did have a good year. I don’t believe that would put him in Cowens and Malone company.
I count Cartwright as a center not a power forward. He may not have been the scorer but he was a force and you could not leave him unattended. He could finish.That team did have luc longley also.
Im not sure that I am one to believe that star power wins games. That only helps when the refs give you that extra super star step in going to the rack or that you cant breath on him phantom foul going to the line. Other than that. being a super star just sells jerseys.
We have a difference of opinion on whether to build around a center or a point guard. We agree that both are” natural” positions.
Either way I think we agree on more than we disagree. I hope the hawks have a good season and you a good night.
A Blog-Z State of Mind | Hawks Blog – consolidationloanservicesstudent
November 22nd, 2009
8:46 am
[...] Tribe is dead on,I’ve talked to Mario plenty of times and we are exactly the same height -with that said at 6â²4 he is undersized for the pg/sg spots.So i say lets end the expirement/feel good story …. Earl Boykins . Link; Report this comment. ÃFÃ. October 5th, 2009 3:42 pm. v!vººv!v⧫g.¤âºÂ». Link; Report this comment. Hoops. October 5th, 2009 3:44 pm. If Sekou is right and the Hawks are only going to sign one more player before the regular season starts, …More Here [...]