A Blog-Z state of mind?
NEW HAWKS GUARD JAMAL CRAWFORD HAS BEEN EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS ADVERTISED IN TRAINING CAMP, AND THEN SOME. PLUS, BLOG-Z SPEAKS!
Jamal Crawford's already stirred things up in practice. Hawks fans should expect more of the same all season long from the gifted scorer and passer.
HAWKSVILLE – We’re a week into training camp and one thing is clear, this Hawks team set to take the floor this season is a much improved bunch from the one that left the floor in that series against Cleveland to end last season.
How much better is still up for debate.
But it’s clear that this team has a chance to get back to where it finished last year and perhaps beyond, based on the early vibes emanating from the Hawks’ practice court.
“This is by far the best group and the best first week of camp we’ve had in my time here,” one keen observer noted after Sunday’s practice. “Not since Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock have we had a group like this that could get it from the first guy through 12.”
Watching Jamal Crawford explode the way he did in Sunday’s scrimmage was the first real indicator of just how deep and potentially explosive this team could be. He didn’t just attack the Blue team (starters and a couple reserves), he went directly at Joe Johnson (haven’t seen anyone do that before now either) with the scrimmage on the line and finished (Joe had an open look from the corner that could have won it for the Blue team but his jumper didn’t fall). While it was a bit of a shock to the system of those that have been watching the Hawks the past few years, Crawford didn’t seem particularly fazed by his performance. I mean, he’s not cocky in the least bit but the man knows he’s good. He knows he can score at will, regardless of who is trying to guard him. I think everyone else knows it now.
“With Jamal and Jeff Teague, we have a dynamic we haven’t had since I’ve been here,” said Hawks forward Josh Smith. “We’re bringing two guards off the bench that can score every bit as good as our starting guards. That’s a nasty group right there, when you can put your backup guards in and still keep the pressure on. If we do it right, we’re going to be coming at you from so many different angles that you’re going to need a while to figure out where it’s coming from. And hopefully by then, we’ll have shifted into another gear on you and made you think it all over again. It’s going to be fun to see us in action once we get this thing cranked up.”
Everyone seems to have an opinion. So what better time to tap our friendly neighborhood Hater of the Millennium for his take on all things Hawks? Blog-Z has been in attendance for all of the portions of camp outsiders have been allowed to view (and thanks to the Mad VP and the media alert being on red, we haven’t seen as much as we’re used to). So we asked him for some quick thoughts on camp and what it’s looked like from his perspective.
Hawks Blog: So you saw Jamal Crawford get loose Sunday, how good was he?
Blog Z: He was crazy good. But the thing he and Jeff Teague bring that no one is talking is about is that they push JJ and Mike Bibby to play at a higher level, even in practice. Bibby’s been as good as anyone in training camp. He’s shooting lights out. He’s defending and finding guys in stride and he’s leading the team the way you’d expect from a seasoned veteran. But yeah, even the hater in me can’t deny that these guards are going to make for an interesting mix. They’re just so explosive on the offensive end. And Crawford’s best and probably most underrated asset is that he’s a much more complete player than he gets credit for. It’s scary how good he is when you consider all the mess he’s taken over the years for being on crappy teams.
HB: So maybe you’re more excited about this team than you were earlier in the summer, when you said you didn’t see any major improvements and that this team has no chance of shaking up the top three of the Eastern Conference?
BZ: And maybe you’re more interested in writing scripts than you are reporting what someone actually said. Read my lips player, I remain committed to the facts. The Hawks didn’t go crazy this summer and find that missing piece to the championship puzzle. Don’t get ahead of yourself. Crawford is a monster addition. he’s going to be great in this town, on this team and in the role they have slotted for him. But he alone isn’t the answer to the bigger question of whether or not this team (as presently constituted) is capable of challenging for a top three spot. I say no.
HB: Will you at least admit that this team has a chance to shock some people this season?
BZ: I won’t admit to anything. And these “people” you’re talking about, where might they be? I saw what the national experts had to say about the Hawks this season. They don’t seem particularly convinced that this team is going to shock the world. Now one of my guys, you all know him as RA, took offense to what the experts had to say. He sent me this email Sunday:
Knocking off Miami in seven games last year wasn't enough for Josh Smith and the Hawks to convince the national pundits that they are for real.
Thanks for showing what the rest of the sports writing universe has to say about our Hawks, but in reading their…appraisals, I noticed several glaring omissions:
Ian Thomsen mentions implies that Hawks ownership is cheap and while he does add that the moves that they’ve made this offseason were all “winning moves” he does not fully explore the impact that those moves can make. For example, what is it going to mean for this team to have Crawford, who can come in and spell Joe Johnson while at the same time being able get his own shot from anywhere and set up his teammates. What is it going to mean to have Joe Smith’s experience and physical play on the roster, and Collins who gives the Hawks another big body off the bench that they just didn’t have before? I feel like those additions were simply dismissed as bargain basement pickups representing an unwillingness (or inability) of the Hawks brass to go out and get front line talent. I feel that his assessment is incomplete, at best.
As for A.J. Adande’s assertions that the Hawks don’t have star power, I beg to differ. Joe Johnson has become a perennial all-star, Mike Bibby was making his bones in the Western Conference finals when Howard was cutting his wisdom teeth, and Josh Smith is pound for pound one of the most exciting players in the game. Now, none of the aforementioned have any championships, but last time I checked neither did [Dwight] Howard or King James. Also, if the Detroit Pistons of the early 90’s taught us anything, it’s that you don’t have to have a “Superstar.” You just need depth, talent, and proper leadership. I feel that Mr. Adande is ignoring the fact that at least two of these factors, possibly three, are in place.
Of all the experts that you cited, I feel that [Yahoo! Sports' Marc] Spears was the most fair. Of course, I think that he should have reserved his statement about the Hawks not finishing strong in the playoffs. The Hawks had three starters who were either out or hobbled in the second round vs. Cleveland. To be honest, they made a much better showing in games three and four than I ever would have expected. Under the circumstances of what they were dealing with, I don’t know many teams that could have done better and very few that might have done as well.
Like I said, I don’t think that the journalism for Atlanta has been fair or balanced, but I do hope that other teams take it seriously because it would be nice to sneak up on a few teams, although I doubt very seriously that that’s going to happen…
HB: Man, you’re a complete hater. You’ve even got RA hating on the national cats. I know Michigan got popped Saturday by Michigan State an all, but can’t you let go of your personal biases long enough to talk Hawks? I mean, surely you’ve seen some things in Hawks’ training camp that please you?
BZ: You would bring up the Michigan game (ya little punk). I ought to slap the … what was the question again?
HB: Some things that please you so far?
BZ: I didn’t say this group wasn’t impressive. It’s clear they’ve got a core group of about 10 players capable of competing against anyone on a given night. They had an adequate group last year and they added a couple of good players to that mix. But I’m not ready to anoint them or anything. I’m just taking a wait and see approach to this season, like most wise observers would. A good first week of training camp has never won anything. In fact, there isn’t much this team can show me in the preseason that will sway me one way or the other. I need to see what they at the end of this season and in the playoffs. That’s when they can prove to me that they’re moving into that upper echelon. Pump your brakes son. Building all these off the wall expectations and feeding all this hype is what will land a team in the hole if things don’t start right once the real games begin.
HB: Well, what about the guys trying to snag that final roster spot. Has anyone caught your eye?
BZ: I could make a reasonable case for just about every single guy. Othello Hunter’s activity and potential make him an enticing candidate. Same goes for Frank Robinson. With Mario West I know what I’m getting, and it’s usually all good because his motor revs at all times. Courtney Sims has the size and skill set you want in a big but I don’t know if he makes sense either. Aaron Miles has probably been the most surprising guy of the bunch for me, only because I didn’t realize he was this good. And what you get in experience with Mike Wilks and Juan Dixon makes up for their lack of ideal size and bulk at the position [point guard]. The one guy that keeps coming back into my head is the big boy, Garret Siler. He’s going to find a spot somewhere, maybe not this year but eventually, and you’d hate to have him now and let him go only to see him show up a year or two now helping some other team. And with all that said, there might be a better player and a better fit that falls through the training camp crack elsewhere. In any respect, this is a good problem to have, watching eight guys scrap it out for one roster spot. Another benefit of having a quality group like this is that if you need a replacement player throughout the season for any reason, you can reach back and grab one of these guys that showed well during training camp.
HB: For some super hater, you’re not nearly as nasty as you’ve been in the past. What’s with nice routine?
BZ: There’s nothing nice going on here partner. I’m just a little under the weather right now. All this rain has me in the dumps. But I’ll be back and hating better than ever before too long.
HB: So we can hit you up in a few weeks for some post training camp assessments?
BZ: There you go making stuff up again. I didn’t say all that chump. Lose my number!
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289 comments Add your comment
rOd FRoM cOLlEGe pARk
October 6th, 2009
3:39 pm
pERfECt i SaiD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sekou Smith
October 6th, 2009
3:51 pm
The players and coaches knew that the mics were hot today, so they tried to act out a bit more. This was by far the most animated most of these guys have been during camp. It’s been much more of a workmanlike affair up until now. Woody and Josh’s “love-hate” thing has been overanalyzed to death, so I won’t dig into it any more. But I will tell you that like you see on the tube, 10 pounds of mess get added to what’s really there.
The one disappointing thing about today is that the work looked a bit raggedy. They’ve been much sharper. I don’t know if it was the cameras or everyone knowing that it’s game time? Tomorrow’s game against the Hornets should be interesting for so many different reasons.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
3:59 pm
Heh…should have figured those guys were trying to play a bit to the camera.
jerrywest
October 6th, 2009
4:05 pm
I think they put a mic on JJ, but quickly realized they were wasting a mic.
A mic on Al would have been interesting.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 6th, 2009
4:48 pm
Just saw this:
I know Hollinger is a “Hawks pessimist” to put it kindly, but it is valid point:
Question:
You have often stated that nothing has changed for the Hawks. They added Crawford who can take some of JJ minutes without missing a beat and added two quality big men. The Hawks got tired down the stretch. I see this team being in better shape next spring because of fewer minutes for the starters.
John Hollinger (3:26 PM)
Except that they already had one of the league’s most effective sixth men a year ago with Flip Murray, and they still ran Joe Johnson into the ground. not sure how Crawford changes that. As far as adding two “quality” big men, you might want to watch a bit more Jason Collins tape before you go there.
I know he doesn’t account for Teague, but honestly how much can we expect from the 19th pick in the draft for a team trying to make a title run?
Thoughts?
RISE UP
Melvin
October 6th, 2009
5:04 pm
#21,
I think Blog Z stated it the best a “wait and see” approach is the best method. So many folks want to predict what’s going to happen. The game is not decided on paper. The Champs are crowned on the court of play. I think sometimes folks spend way too much time analyzing data, stats and etc. Let these guys play a few games and then we will have REAL sample data to analyze. Offseason and preseason doesn’t count for nothing…
ILL-logical
October 6th, 2009
5:32 pm
We can tell that its preseason because Woodson is spouting the usual bromides about minutes and roles. And as last year proved, it is mostly full of sound and fury yet signifying nothing.
The proof of the pudding so to speak is how Woodson handles the first losing streak or player unrest.Here’s hoping that this year the Hawks experience as well as talent to overcome any setbacks.
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
5:38 pm
Nire,
“I’m not saying “Rod From College Park” was you. My point is that it’s not out of the realm of possibility that you might have miscapitalized a word in your name considering that you – like everyone around here – have made more than a couple typos in your life.”
It is out of the realm of possibility because I told you it was not me. All this other nonsense you are spouting is not relevant. Read this. IT WAS NOT ME. How difficult is that. Because you and Big Ray chose to play Blog bullies and respond to someone else who obviously thinks that you (Nire) are a clown, like I do, don’t try to flex your blog credentials on me. Once agian, I could care less about anything you have to say, and rarely read your post when they don’t pertain to me, so lets keep it that way. I actually have had intelligent conversations with everyone but you, so when I respond to them, I am expecting an intelligent response. Not that garbage that you spout.
“I would be willing to lay 4:1 odds that Josh will never be the leading scorer on a playoff time.” Nire
Why would I respond to someone who makes idiotic statements like this?
terrell barron
October 6th, 2009
5:49 pm
Joe Smith and Zaza must be tight. They’re always cuttin up and having a good time together. Good to see.
ILL-logical
October 6th, 2009
5:57 pm
We can tell that its preseason because Woodson is spouting the usual bromides about minutes and roles. And as last year proved, it is mostly full of sound and fury yet signifying nothing.
The proof of the pudding ,so to speak, is how Woodson handles the first losing streak or player unrest.Here’s hoping that this year the Hawks have the experience as well as the talent to overcome any setbacks.
KevinA
October 6th, 2009
6:10 pm
I am watching the 5:00 replay of the hawks training camp on NBA TV. You keep reading about how hard they work. Looked like a lot of standing around to me. Disorganized and a lost first hr.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
6:30 pm
Context is key, Rod. You’re the only one who dredges up that quote, which you took out of context. My point was that Josh is probably never going to be the leading scorer over the course of a full season (ie the regular season) for a team that makes the playoffs. But it’s pretty clear from your posts that you only read the portions you want to read.
So here’s what we’ve learned from Rod today: Ray is too dumb (or too unobservant) to be a good cop, I’m too dumb/unobservant to be a good lawyer, Rod is too intelligent to make typos, and Rod has managed to carry on intelligent conversations with everyone on this blog but me.
Yup, Ray and I are the arrogant bullies around here.
vava74
October 6th, 2009
6:44 pm
I stand by comments that Josh behaved childishly.
I can give you one perfect example: on a time out woody was explaining a set play and Josh interrupted him asking Woody why would they do it differently, with him staying on a different spot.
I think that the play called for Josh fading and acting like a decoy and Josh’s proposal was for him to remain in the action, something which would clog the paint with him and his match up, preventing the cutter from having space to get the ball.
I think no one here acknowledges Josh as being a great basketball mind, hence, I think he should be the last guy interrupting the HC when he is doing his job during a time out. I think this was symptomatic and along the year it is probably nerve wrecking for Woody (who behaved more patiently that I would).
Another example was when Josh complained that his steal/shot block was not being counted as a defensive stop, when the ball went out of bounds out of his hands… it is obvious that the objective of the exercise was to force a steal, block a ball but inbounds to a team mate or force a bad shot and rebound, not to break a play without getting possession.
Josh’s reaction was again childish since I am sure that he has gone through this exercise dozens of times.
With all the above I am not saying that I was not pleased with Josh’s performance, I am. He looked enthusiastic, fresh, in good shape and with a good stroke.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
6:47 pm
#21,
Like most good on-ball defenders, Jason Collins doesn’t show up in John Hollinger’s PER. Therefore, in John Hollinger’s eyes, he’s a scrub. In any case, I can’t tell whether Hollinger’s retort was that 1) the Hawks’ bench isn’t any deeper than last year’s and/or 2) that even if it is deeper, he doesn’t see it making a difference.
If it’s the first point, he’s just nuts. Because even if Crawford doesn’t give us anything more than Flip did, certainly Joe Smith, Jeff Teague, and Jason Collins will give us more than Solomon Jones, Acie Law, and Randolph Morris did last year. Considering that RandMo is getting pushed further to the end of the bench and that 2 guys who made the roster last year are facing long odds to make the cut this year, he’d be crazy not to recognize that the team is deeper.
If it’s the second, then he is only right if Woody’s use of an 8-man rotation stemmed from a reluctance to use a deep bench in general rather than simply his reluctance to use a deep bench given the players he had. Whether that’s true or not, we’ll see. I honestly don’t know how Woody will use his bench…I do still fear that he’ll use an 8-man rotation all year. We’ve seen that movie before: “We needed to start the year strong…I wanted Joe, Josh, and Mike to get a shot at making the All-Star team…we needed to fight for our playoff spot…we needed to fight for home-court.” Only time will tell, but Sund was smart to bring in two vets and a rookie that Woodson publicly praised, because that puts the pressure not to overwork the starters squarely back on Woodson’s shoulders.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 6th, 2009
7:38 pm
Nire,
I’m all over the +/-’s of Hollinger’s per. I guess I used it as a launching pad to examine what I presume we’ve been doing this whole time: are the additions worth anything. Basically I see it as the Hawks “may” only have down to go. I can wrap myself up in Hawks basketball as much as anyone, but it is a legitimate thought. The “Big 3″ in the east all added starters- point in fact, they upgraded. I don’t question whether our depth got better or whether on a given night we can compete with them, I just wonder is it enough to do it over the course of a season? Jamal is good but Shaq, VC, Sheed (former Hawk) he is not. Hollinger might have nailed it with him being a glorified Flip- not an insult, but still leaves something to be desired. Having lived in NJ and seen more Nets ball than I would have liked- Collins is really not that good. Defender- sure ish, but I don’t know that our team is built for complete non entities on offense. I ask again, how much to expect from Teague. Joe Smith should be solid and truly represents something new/desireable for the team, but he’s a 7th man at best…
This all brings it to Woody. Will we be content to hang on/fight for the 4 spot, or as I believe may still be necessary to ascend, he ride the starters still in an effort to win the extra 9 ish games it would take to unseat Orlando (re: win SE division) and shuffle the pecking order. My Joe Johnson fantasy numbers in March/April are dying to know….
RISE UP
Rod from College Park
October 6th, 2009
7:38 pm
Nire,
Stop bringing other people into the coversation. My last post was directed at you Nire(clown). Your lunchroom buddy ,BUBBA crew member, gang leader…… was not addressed.
“So here’s what we’ve learned from Rod today: Ray is too dumb (or too unobservant) to be a good cop, I’m too dumb/unobservant to be a good lawyer, Rod is too intelligent to make typos, and Rod has managed to carry on intelligent conversations with everyone on this blog but me.”
Actually I never called Big Ray dumb or unobservant, you did. I stated that you both are great at determining who is blogging as other people because of the context or words used, that it was shocking to me that you two could not determine that it was not me. Then I told you it wasn’t me and you still had something to say. Correction: I have had intelligent coversations with everyone except you and Stating the Obvious. Glad you learned something today. If you can learn something new everyday, you will be a very smart man.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
7:59 pm
Maybe this will help you. I guess you won’t find many killers or robbers missing details like that. Is that better? It should be rather obvious who posted that. Maybe I chose the wrong profession. Maybe I should have been a cop(detective)…
It’s that gang mentality. Both police and lawyers suffer from it…
Because you and Big Ray chose to play Blog bullies…
Your lunchroom buddy ,BUBBA crew member, gang leader…… was not addressed.
Yeah, you weren’t talking down to Ray at all in there.
Night night, Rod.
ÛfØ
October 6th, 2009
8:35 pm
«¤¤ª¤¤ª¤¤º¤¤»
GØ HÅWK§
ÛfØ
October 6th, 2009
8:37 pm
ßÊ ÇØØL
Ariose
October 6th, 2009
9:26 pm
Vava, actually I think Josh was asking why he couldn’t stay spotted up in the corner and woodson said “because whe he puts the shot up, I want you in there.”
The questionable complainf from Josh that I observed was this one:
Fast break drill. Josh defending, pretends to jump. Player floats the ball over a non-jumping Josh. “Come on Smooth!” Woodson. “What’s he want me to do.” Josh Smith. Long pause. “It was a good floater.” Sigh.
As far as him complainig about calls, THE WHOLE STARTING LINEUP WAS DOING IT. Thats just being competitive. They just don’t like to loose. Even the greatest players in the game(MJ etc.) constanly work the officals.
And what about Michael Bibby?
Mike Woodson: “Get Mike out of there.” Mike Bibby: “No, I’m not coming.” Bibby stays in the scrimmage, his breathing disturbingly heavy and high in the mix.
??? Is THAT not “Childish”???
MyView
October 6th, 2009
9:28 pm
Something special is brewing with this Hawks team. I never usually get into B-Ball until the college football regular season ends. I’m already in mid-season form. LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!
Stanky leg
October 6th, 2009
9:29 pm
Enter your comments here
Big bad Ray the blog Bully
October 6th, 2009
9:30 pm
DEAR ROD
The blog principal made me write you this letter. Sorry that I took your blog lunch money and kicked blog sand in your face. I did not know you were going to cry. I thought it was funny until the snot started running out of your nose and really that was kind of gross. The blog principal saw me and now I have to stay after blogging for blog detention. I guess I deserved it. The blog principal said I should know better than to pick on kids that come off of the blog short bus. The blog principal says they are really sensitive. I do not know what that means. I guess it means snot comes out of their noses really easy and they like to lick the windows when they are riding the blog bus. I hope we can be blog friends. Please do not bring that doll with the pins stuck in it to the blog sand box tomorrow. The blog principal says it is a doo doo or voo doo doll or something like that. The blog principal says they saw you in the bathroom with it and you were calling it marvin and sticking the pins in it like a mean person. I do not know anybody named marvin in blog class so I guess that is the name of your doll. See you at the blog sand box tomorrow after blog class. Tell your friend sam that everybody thinks its funny when he wears his pants backwards every day. Sam says you are the one who told him to wear his pants like that and his hiney hurts every time he wakes up from blog nap time. I think that is weird. Here is your blog lunch money back. Sorry I took it.
signed,
Big bad Ray the blog Bully
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
9:33 pm
so Stackhouse was never planning on coming here what was the piont of him on our court.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
9:40 pm
VaVa74 ,
The day that asking questions and/or contending with a play becomes “childish” is the day they can shut the NBA down. Yes, Woody is being patient. Coaching requires patience.
No, Josh is not a “great basketball mind”, but he’s not as dull as people want to make him out to be, either. Josh doesn’t have a low IQ. He’s impatient. Impatience is like being impetuous. “Haste makes waste”, and all that. Want an example?
You should have seen Tony Parker when he first came in the league. Gregg Popovich said he wanted to tear his hair out every freaking day. Imagine Larry Brown and Iverson. Philly doesn’t make it to the Finals that one year without Larry Brown’s patience.
Call it what you will, but former championship-winning Pistons coach Chuck Daly (RIP) said it best:
“This is a player’s league. If the players don’t respect you, then you will not go far.”
Patience is one thing that earns respect.
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
9:43 pm
Have to echo Ariose . A veteran player is asked or told to come out of the game, and he refuses.
If what Josh does is immature and childish, then what do we call it when a veteran (who should know better, and should be setting an example) can’t comply with a simple directive?
Let’s not split meaningless hairs here.
Bottom Line : This is training camp. And the players and coaches know they are on camera and on the mic. Not only are they playing up to it, but I’d also rather these things take place in training camp, then during a regular season or playoff game.
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
9:46 pm
Lookout big 3 or whoever is in the way the HAWKS are coming and we want the title. GO HAWKS!!!
MyView
October 6th, 2009
9:55 pm
I don’t understand why people are crying about anything more than a 12 or 13 man roster. I will just be happy to see Woody routinely play 10 guys. That alone would satisfy me.
Drewscrilla
October 6th, 2009
10:10 pm
I dont have all the facts or any inside info all i know is this is going to be a fun year.Yeah I know there teams that might be better, all we need to do is step it up and eveything will fall into place.
THE HAWKS WILL BE A PROBLEM and NO ONE WILL STOP THEM. no it does’nt matter who won last year the hawks will crush them and throw their dust into the wind. oh yeah screw those espn writers who hate.Never turn your back on a hawk
Big Ray
October 6th, 2009
10:14 pm
What was funny was when Woody was demonstrating how he wants his guys to fight through screens and try to force the opposing player who is trying to get the ball away from the passing lane, and Josh grabbed Woody and was pushing him all over the court.
Woody was laughing, and you could hear Josh saying to JJ, “I got you dog, I had to get you open, coach I had to get him open…you want him to score, right? ”
That was funny as hell….
rich
October 6th, 2009
10:24 pm
Big Ray enjoyed the last points .
These players have egos are they wouldn’t be at this level. It’s coach’s job to point , correct , guide them toward the same goal . Woody seems to be doing more than people give him credit.
niremetal
October 6th, 2009
10:38 pm
Sorry Ray, you know I gotta split that hair
.
To spin off on my post from earlier…there is a difference between veterans and youngsters, in all fields and all sports. I talked about the non-sports world before, but I’ll talk a bit about sports this time.
In baseball, a respected veteran starting pitcher usually can stay in the game if he is tiring a bit, even when the manager comes to take him out, basically by telling the manager “no.” Jack Morris became famous for doing that starting around the middle of his career, as was Ellis Kinder on the Red Sox back in the 40’s and 50’s – neither was a Hall of Famer, but both had built up the ‘player’s capital’ needed to tell a manager “no.” But if a less experienced pitcher tries to do that, he’s labeled “brash” and “petulant.”
Similarly, in football, a respected veteran quarterback feels more comfortable calling an audible, and will get less flak if the audible backfires than a rookie who does the same thing. Dennis Green gave Randall Cunningham MUCH more freedom than he gave Jeff George and, especially, Daunte Culpepper.
No different in basketball – Bibby the vet can say “no, leave me in,” at least during training camp (this might be a different story in the regular season), and it’ll be seen as a “veteran’s prerogative” by all involved. But if a guy with less built-up capital tried the same thing, he’d be labeled as brash at best and disrespectful or “childish” at worst.
Sekou can correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I don’t think that the different standards for vets and youngsters is something that most players are much bothered by – heck, they push it by making rookies the towel boys. So if they don’t view it as something unfair, why should we?
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
10:56 pm
ROD from COLLEGE PARK:
Dude, chill. Don’t be one of the two participants in a blog-fight no one can win. NIRE’s cool, as is BIG RAY. Just give them a chance. You sound like me man. When I first found SEKOU’s blog two years ago, I called out H.B. ANDO, and then had to apologize for comments made by myself. It’s a no win situation. Disagree if you will, but if you root for the HAWKS remember everybody here’s in it together. BTW, I’m a BRAVES fan who roots for the HAWKS and the ‘ZARDS also. I’m in RICHMOND, you’re in College Park, no?
Melvin
October 6th, 2009
11:08 pm
They are rebroadcasting the Hawks training camp session from earlier today on NBATV right now (11-1).
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
11:17 pm
BTW RAY, I’m not rich, and richbrave is the only way I’ll come ‘atcha.
richbrave
October 7th, 2009
12:08 am
INTERESTING TAKE FROM BUCK’S DIARY. Anybody know this guy?
Ten Toxic NBA Contracts
1. Gilbert Arenas… $96.3 million through 2014
Comment: Good player. Terrible contract. I wouldn’t wish that used refrigerator onto the back of my worst, most hated enemy. This contract could destroy the good thing the Bullets Wizards seem to be building in Washington.
2. Rashard Lewis… 85.2 million through 2013
Comment: See Arenas, Gilbert.
3. Andrea Bargnani… 56.5 million through 2015
Comment: This contract doesn’t look horrible monetarily, but when you consider that the promisee is a serious loss producer, and a perennial member of my “20 Most Harmful” lists, any premium — no — any long term deal involving this player is a bad, toxic deal.
4. Richard Hamilton… 49.4 million through 2013
Comment: Hamilton’s been a fine, average win producer. But he’s nearing the end of his productive road, and his contract and payments due are not. Bad combo.
5. Stephen Jackson… 35.3 million through 2013
Comment: See Bargnani, Andrea.
6. Baron Davis… 53.8 million through 2013
Comment: Davis is a very productive player when he is healthy and motivated. However, he’s injury prone, and last season he was terrible. On top of that he is aging at a position where age catches up to and erodes a player’s win production capacity very quickly.
7. Josh Smith… 47.2 million through 2013
Comment: An overbloated contract for an overrated, inconsistent player. Smith shows up when he wants to show up. Unfortunately for Atlanta, his wages are due either way.
8. Monta Ellis… 55.0 million through 2014
Comment: Here’s another case where we have a potentially productive player, but one who is paid beyond his productive capacity. Ellis is due to be paid like a consistent high win producer, but he has not proven he can consistently deliver high wins.
9. Danny Granger… 59.8 million through 2014
Comment: A useful player, but way overpaid. Here’s a case where, like the Michael Redd deal, high scoring capacity got confused with high win capacity.
10. Luol Deng… 61.8 million through 2014
Comment: Again, I like Deng (when healthy), but not at the numbers he’s due to be paid. In fact, I think as the NBA’s economic structure changes over the next couple years, a contract of this size would be too much to offer even an elite player. By 2012 the Bulls will regret the deal, if they don’t have the foresight to regret the deal already.
I MUS WRITE
October 7th, 2009
2:19 am
Gee Mack- After watching the Celtics in training camp you may be right. I still think they finish behind Orlando and Cleveland….Orlando upgraded the most IMO so its a toss up between them and Cleveland. We will be fighting Washington off all year for #4 most likely.
I think Chicago may move into the 6th seed they look good against Utah even tho it wuz preseason. James Johnson looks like a yung Ron Artest,He might be just as good as Beasley if not better. Healthy Deng,and Pargo….They look good on paper
VAVA- Josh is okay,just clowning around i mean he is 23yo so……..
ROD- Just let it go man,Robin and Perry Mason have special powers….
Richbrave- i cant believe they have Granger on that list. I was with him for a minute until I saw Granger and to a certain degree Josh.
I MUS WRITE
October 7th, 2009
2:27 am
O yeah, After watching camp I would go with O.Hunter maybe Sims and sign either Green/Stackhouse leaving one roster spot open for the trade deadline.
PDubATL
October 7th, 2009
8:43 am
If Mo’s knees are going to be a problem for him this season (a la Speedy) we’ll need to seriously think about picking up a 3rd SF.
niremetal
October 7th, 2009
9:07 am
Also #21 – the biggest reason that Hollinger has no credibility? The fact that he singled out Zaza as looking older than his listed age. Because he clearly is the only big man in the NBA who looks older than he is. It’s not like Greg Oden already looks 36 or anything…or that Tim Duncan has always looked 10 years older than he is…
ILL-logical
October 7th, 2009
9:44 am
After watching the broadcast of the Hawks’ practice session, I came away with these thoughts:
As NBA teams feature more open court ,spread offenses, the Hawks should continue to be a successful franchise because of the roster’s talent as well as experience.However, the team’s current starting line up is still undersized and will suffer accordingly against the “big boys” who employ skilled bigs that posse both heft and height.
The new found front court depth will help especially against West Coast teams that play a style that is better suited to the current line up’s skill set ie, small ,quick frontline.
4th place in the playoff seatings is achievable but it will not be easy because of the increased level of competition. This year the Hawk’s will have to work even harder to achieve the same results but they can do it.And if Lady Luck favors them, they can do even better.
Melvin
October 7th, 2009
10:16 am
Where’s the heck is Astro/Anakin Joe? Did all this talk about Crawford make him sick?
#21=Top50,1stBallot
October 7th, 2009
10:32 am
I hear you, but seriously fellas I have 100% confidence in Zaza’s listed age (wink, wink). I’ll take him on my team in reasonable 4 year increments though, 2007-08 notwithstanding.
RISE UP
Sautee
October 7th, 2009
10:41 am
Melvin,
Been wondering the same thing myself. I was just about to post it when the phone rang (Ray), and then I updated and saw your post. Strange. I hope all is well with our favorite contrarian.
Melvin
October 7th, 2009
10:44 am
Sautee,
Agreed. It’s unlike for him to be away from the scene this long. Hopefully everything is ok with him…
What is a vet?
October 7th, 2009
10:45 am
niremetal& vava74. Josh Smith is a 6 year NBA player. He is a veteran. Do you think he is the only person who questions Woody’s plays in the huddle? Why are fans here not more upset that he is obviously more of a leader in practice than Joe. Bibby and Josh set the tone for practice pushing other players not Joe or Al. The double standards here are amazing. Al can say something when he was a rookie or 2year player but Smith as a 6 year vet can’t. Also, players do get upset by double standards. Sekou has written about this in the past. This has been an ongoing problems for the Hawks. Ask Sekou.
Daniel
October 7th, 2009
10:46 am
Is the Hawks game going to be televised?
Spud Webb
October 7th, 2009
10:48 am
I’m curious to see how Woody f’s this thing up. He’ll under-utilize someone and run his normal “clear it out” offense and hope.
Good lord, i’m not sure how anyone thinks/believes that w Woody running this ship that thinks will get much better.
NOW IS THE TIME, we have a LOT Of talant, role players and STUDS, please, please, please just let Woody go right now.
dap01
October 7th, 2009
10:55 am
The Hawks are were a 4th place east team last year. To that we have added Teague, Crawford, Collins and Smith. Teague is better than AC, Crawford is better than Flip, Collins is better than Solo, Smith is better than ______. In addition, the starting 5 will all be better with maturity and chemistry. The Celtics are older, Orlando added mr. non chemistry in Carter and Cleveland added an aging Shaq.
We got into the 2nd round with 3 injured starters and a team that was tired from the overuse.
Well this year we will not have to overuse the team and we will be deeper and fresher going into the playoffs. I am very optimistic. Why all of the rankings? Why all of the discussion? We are better than last year. We will win more games this year. We will be in better position to face Cleveland, Orlando, Boston or anyone else.
Sund has done an excellent job. I am optimistic that Woody will get the team to improve.
Hoops
October 7th, 2009
10:57 am
Just looking ahead-
If Miami has a really bad season this year, which is possible, what team will D. Wade sign with next summer? He may be the best FA All-Star that will want to change teams.