Did Johnson makes the right call?
Did Joe Johnson make the right call on not signing a contract extension with the Hawks? Time will tell. But you can bet the topic will be debated daily until the end of this Hawks season, when he becomes an unrestricted free agent.
HAWKSVILLE – Much has been and will be made about Joe Johnson’s decision to bypass signing an extension with the Hawks and become a free agent at the end of this NBA season.
And rightfully so.
In the minds of us common folk, the idea of staring down $60-plus million more dollars seems laughable in these harsh economic times. But Johnson is not one of us (common folk), and there are at least $70 million reasons for that. He also has something professional athletes have maybe once or twice, if they are lucky, in their entire careers — LEVERAGE.
By playing out the final year of his deal he’ll become a free agent in the summer of 2010, joining guys like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in a deep free agent class that has as many as a dozen different (financially capable) teams around the league salivating. So in that regard, he’d have been crazy to sign an extension for just four years if he stands to get not only another year but millions more by becoming a free agent next summer.
My email was flooded Tuesday afternoon by people wondering what JJ was thinking. Fans of the Hawks, writers from around the league and concerned citizens all wanted to know why he’d so such a thing. My response to everyone was the same, why wouldn’t he maximize his leverage at this time? Teams do so all the time when their players are free agents. In recent years the Hawks have had Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia play out the final years of their deals without an extension. In almost every case things have worked out well for both sides.
It’s simply a part of the business of basketball that Johnson explained to me the other day. He could have saved his words. I get it. I don’t assume that his loyalty is somehow in question because he turned down the offer, the same way I don’t (always) question a team’s loyalty when they allow a player to finish out his deal before deciding just how much they want to invest in said player for the future. Again, it’s called leverage.
The reality in all these instances is pretty clear, you have a player for the life of his contract unless a decision is made to change that dynamic. And it’s always for better (JJ) or worse (Flip Murray’s deal was just one year), through sickness (or injury in Speedy Claxton’s case) and in health (Smith has been as durable as any player I can remember through the first five seasons of his career).
I dare anyone to suggest that the Hawks haven’t squeezed every ounce of benefit they could out of having JJ on the roster – he’s got the mileage on his body to prove it if anyone wants to inspect the tread on his tires. He’s been to three straight All-Star games and for at least the better part of his first two years he carried this team on his shoulders as the youngsters grew up and learned the nuances of the NBA game. That’s why it’s so hard for me to digest some of the venom pointed in his direction now.
As I suggested in a comment on the previous post, the idea of a highly motivated All-Star in the prime of his career itching to take his game to another level (for any reason) is an ideal situation for your team. As good as JJ has been in the past, you have to think he’ll be even better this year with the seasoned and talented roster the Hawks have in place, not to mention the quality additions to the roster like Jamal Crawford and Jeff Teague in the backcourt and Joe Smith and Jason Collins in the frontcourt.
It’s the same argument made here by many when Smith, Childress, Williams and the like were put in a similar position as pending free agents in the final year of their respective deals.
Whether or not JJ made the right call for JJ remains to be seen. And we likely won’t have a solid answer until next summer’s free agent frenzy plays itself out. But there’s no way the Hawks can lose in the meantime. No way.
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366 comments Add your comment
The Truth
October 2nd, 2009
2:59 pm
At least we know what Wade reasons are for not signing his extension. Riley has a plan.
“Wade’s persistent comments about how he is waiting to see the Heat get closer to championship contention before signing a contract extension have set off alarms everywhere but Riley’s office.”
Daniel
October 2nd, 2009
3:07 pm
That is assuming that they are running a called play, which does not happen as much as people think. Now, can Woodson make a more concerted effort to have the team focus on Marvin? Sure. I think we were seeing that some before the injuries. But, we also saw tenative play by Marvin, as well. The difference between him and Horford, is that Marvin usually has a size advantage on his defender, which would behoove him to get inside more. Al has to use quickness and a 10 footer to be effective. I think Al is doing just fine. I am saying all this about Marvin not because I am dogging him, just the opposite. I think his game can(and needs) to rise up (even more than Josh and Al) because I think he can be the key to this team being a good 4th seed type team to a team making that next step that everyone is talking about.
Some of it is coaching, but some of it is Marvin too. We seem to disagree on which part is the bigger part, but we agree on the outcomes.
This is another area where we will see when the season starts.
BosnianBaller
October 2nd, 2009
3:14 pm
I laughed pretty hard when Hollinger said Vince Carter is a better player than Turlkoglu in his chat from the other day.Carter is the biggest ball hog and has done nothing in the playoffs in his careeer.Turkoglu is a complete player.Carter is a better shooter and thats it.I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks win the division this year,
Mike N.
October 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm
I like the positive Marvin talk….he does need to step up. But also, Woody needs to make sure that Josh stays in the paint. Last season when we would swing the ball it would always end up in Josh’s hands for a long jumper. That needs to be Marvins shot.
Daniel
October 2nd, 2009
3:18 pm
truth- cool link. I agree that D.Wade is a superstar, but I have to be honest last year in the playoffs his whiny behavior really turned me off. He comes across as a real punk sometimes. I don’t know if I was being influenced, because I always liked him before that series.
Stating the Obvious
October 2nd, 2009
3:24 pm
Daniel, I don’t think that there’s a team in the league that doesn’t have a default offense, in other words an offensive setup that you go into by default unless a different play is called. You think it’s purely by coincidence that the Jazz run the pick and roll on two thirds of their offensive plays, or that the Lakers run the triangle about the same amount of the time, or that Eddie Jordan’s teams fall back into the Princeton…or that the Hawks usually fall into ISO Joe/Flip? Not trying to be funny, but what exactly do you think Woody and Crawford and the rest of the team is referring to when they talk about the new guys “learning the system?” When plays other than that are called, it always seems to be Bibby that calls them, not Woody.
I agree that Marvin could be more aggressive. But there’s only so much you can do in the NBA if your coach runs an offense that by defalt calls for you to be standing 20 feet away from the ball? When JJ went out and “ISO Joe with Marvin in the corner” became “ISO Marvin with Mo in the corner” for a couple games, Marvin took a lot more shots. I don’t see how you can assign a bigger part of it to anyone but the coach, who dictates the offensive “system” the team plays in.
The Truth
October 2nd, 2009
3:40 pm
Daniel
True, I had those feelings of him as well. But as Yoda would put it:
“a competitor, he is”
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
3:40 pm
Man, the pace is picking up here.
<—— Loves it!
Dezz nuttz
October 2nd, 2009
3:44 pm
What… Does Truth Serum have star status? What about Dezz Nuttz?
Daniel
October 2nd, 2009
3:48 pm
I hear you STO: I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Hopefully, we will see some changes this season either from the play calling, Marvin himself or both. Hopefully both.
Smell My Feet.
October 2nd, 2009
3:53 pm
That guy truth serum must be pretty slow and innocent. How stupid was he to be nice to some one who was being malicious to him. What a dunce! You guys win the SMELL MY FEET AWARD OF THE DAYS! What a crew! You fooled truth serum. That ought to get you some ata boy’s at the next Bubba Crew clavern meeting.
Daniel
October 2nd, 2009
3:54 pm
Bosnian- I am with you that Turk is better than VC, but I am not sure the Hawks win the division (I hope they do). I think the pick up Brandon Bass is a realy nice addition to that team. Honestly, I think it was the best free agent signing in the East (including Rasheed).
Daniel
October 2nd, 2009
3:56 pm
Smell my feet/truth serum- Nobody tried to fool you. I think it was meant to be very obvious. Maybe you can cuss and insult people here for a little while so you can feel better before the weekend.
Smell My Feet.
October 2nd, 2009
4:07 pm
Im sorry if your feeling have been hurt Daniel. I hope you feel better. Yea, I noticed the sarcasm from Ray. I always notice the sarcasm from you and Sautee and non mental and ken… from the whole hate cell that you guys run here. I appreciate you. I understand you. Thats why I have no problem showing you my NUTTZ, which you clearly enjoy.
Blast
October 2nd, 2009
4:10 pm
I actually saw this coming early on in the pre-season when Sund was trying to sign Joe to an extension. I blogged that JJ might not want to sign one with the Hawks, that he might prefer to play out his last year, test free agency and see what his value is. That has now happened. I just don’t understand why anyone would want to hate the man for that, though.
I kind of like the move by Joe because what he has done is put himself under a microscope. I simply mean that if Joe wants to get that last big contract with the Hawks or any other team in 2010, then he has to play like he is the MAN to make the MAN’s money. We can all agree that Joe had a sub par playoff last season. So to make that big payday next year, JJ has to play at an elite level, the kind of level we have not seen since 2005 when he averaged 25 points per game, with multiple games when he scored 30 points or more. I think his decision not to sign can only be good for him and Hawks alike.
We should all remember. Wade declined to sign an extension with the Heat. So did LeBron, Bosh and Amare. Can anyone tell me if those players are been crucified by their fans the way folks here have been calling out JJ?
Samuel
October 2nd, 2009
4:12 pm
Is Turk a Hall of Famer?
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
4:21 pm
No. But my guess is that he’s better in SVG’s offense than Vince will be.
The Flash
October 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Niremetal, you make some good points about the comparisons, but on examination, not so much. First and foremost, you forgot for a second about COSTS AND GAINS.
First, JJ costs tons more in salary than Roy, tons, and, if he is to stay, none of us can count that high. Roy is still under his rookie contract and his next one won’t be a fraction of JJ’s.
Second, management took JJ and thought that he was the ANSWER at the point. Thus, they selected MW instead of Paul or Williams. We are talking huge here, sports fans, huge. A backcourt of one of those and Roy for the future, at the low dollars that would cost.
The discussion could really end here, as I take it you would agree since you blew off these points previously, didn’t even mention them.
However, let me say that I think I have a feel for these things and JJ plays the game, his style, is catching and looking and then deciding what is best. That is the way he sees the game. There is a reason that Phoenix was willing to let him go. I do not think that he can change his style anymore than Arenas can.
Now, Roy might hold it, I haven’t seen him enough to tell, but I have seen him enough to KNOW that he has a choice. He can let it go quickly, he understands the passing game and is completely comfortable with it, and has a sense of when the advantage is there or will lkely be in a moment, and when to just keep it moving.
You can’t put the ball in a player’s hands as much as it’s in a top scorer’s if that soorer only sees the court like he has to make something happen. I don’t care if his name is JJ or LeBron. It ruins the game for the rest of the team, no matter how many games can be won.
We will see if ShaQ can lead LeBron away from that type of style, or if LeBron persists with it and never in my view will come close to the truly greats, and among them I include Kobe last year, but not in years past except when he played with Shaq and even then not so much.
I know that this is near sacralege but I always was bored watching Oscar play for exactly the reasons I’m articulating here. People can talk about triple doubles all they want; to me, the game is about five players moving the ball and themselves to create advantage. Sure great shooters and scorers will take more of the shots but not at the expense of the flow, rather as a consequence of it while at the same time being its generator.
Me, I would not pay JJ the dollars he undoubtedly will want unless he shows that he can play that style of ball, which I think is what championship teams demand of their stars. It was that way back in the day, and I think it so today. It’s time for JJ to step up.
bigdave
October 2nd, 2009
4:53 pm
Flash… Roy just got a nice check this summer…
thehawksleftthenest
October 2nd, 2009
5:01 pm
BosnianBaller you call vince carter a ball hog so what does that make crawford??? A ball hog we bash carter because he has never been in a winning team but we turn the other way and not say the same about crawford i hate that we got him he score 20 points but shot stupid shots and does not pass the ball what so ever and i’ve watched a lot of magic basketball games hedo is a complete player but he is no super star or all star he is a really good player and i might call him a system player he can put a team on his back for 2 or 3 games but can also loose focus and jack up contested shots, he is no hall of famer but he is a good all around player but i cannot say he is better than vince no way….
Ramon
October 2nd, 2009
6:03 pm
Vince has been on a winning team. He’s lead his team to the play offs at least 4-6 times.
BosnianBaller
October 2nd, 2009
6:05 pm
thehawksleftthenest I think the difference between carter and crawford is that crawford is not the main player.Carter has never lived up to his hype of being the number one guy.Crawford has always played on crappy teams he hasn’t been to the playoffs at all.Carter has had Jefferson and Kidd and didn’t really stand out at all.I’m not saying that he should of won the title with those nets teams,but I can’t remember one good playoff game he has been in.I think Crawford will pass more b/c he is in a situation where the Hawks are winning so he will pass more as he said he would.
I would take Turkouglu in a heartbeat over Carter.Turkoglu is team first.He is no superstar neither is carter.Turkoglu is 6′10 and pretty much played point guard in the playoffs not to mention he scores close to 20 points per game.Carter is better than Turkoglu in scoring and maybe on D,but overall Turkoglu is better.I want to know why you think Carter is better?Based on what?Orlando will not be the same team they were last year b/c Hedo left.
BosnianBaller
October 2nd, 2009
6:08 pm
Ramon Carter was really good in Toronto thats why he was in the playoffs 4-6 times.He’s not the same player as he once used to be.His legs are pretty much gone
Ramon
October 2nd, 2009
6:08 pm
Also Vince’s career stat averages in the playoffs are 25 ppg, 7 rbg, 5 asg, and 1.5 steals. Those numbers are even better than JJs.
Ramon
October 2nd, 2009
6:11 pm
Bosnian, last season Carter averaged 20 ppg, 5 rpg, and 5 asg. That was while playing 36 min a game for 80 games. I’m sorry, show me how that equals his legs been gone. Is that not the same (actually better) production that JJ gave last season?
truly1
October 2nd, 2009
6:18 pm
big tone i do agree with you that jj is selfish in the fact that other players took less money to stay with a winning team. Rick sund did everything within reason to make this team better including resigning bibby which is joe js boy. so then you jj get offered an extention to stay with teammates who want to stay with you. Now you want to test free agency it is not right. i dont think 4 60 mill is not a bad contract it is a raise. Bibby signed a 3 year deal to stay with you joe and now you want to test the waters. Sounds like a man and woman relationship but he is selfish and some of us might do the same thing nevertheless
BosnianBaller
October 2nd, 2009
6:23 pm
Ramon-Who on the Nets can score besides Carter? Harris and thats it.Carter has to do that for his team to have a chance at winning.JJ had 21.4 ppg 5.8 asg 4.4rpg thats not way off.Carter has been in the league 11 years made the playoffs 5 times why is this? Basketball is not like Baseball where you can add somebody and they produce b/c everyone gets to hit.Basketball is about chemistry and Carter isn’t a team player.
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
6:27 pm
Flash,
1) We draft CP3 or Deron, then we don’t get to draft Roy.
2) Roy is about to get a pretty massive contract starting next summer. So the cost of him vs. JJ will be pretty close…Roy will be getting.
In any case, I wasn’t advocating their relative costs, the wisdom of drafts past, or anything like that. All I was doing was comparing JJ and Roy on the court. And on that front, we all know JJ isn’t your cup of tea anyway, but I’ll respond quickly to a couple things.
First, you obviously didn’t watch JJ in Phoenix much if you think he played the way you describe back then. Sorry, but he didn’t. He was a true scion of D’Antoni’s offense who moved the ball VERY well in Phoenix. And he actually did play a decent amount of PG there – about 6-8 minutes per game even when Nash was at 100% – and very frequently got the ball early in the clock. D’Antoni wanted JJ back. The reason he was let go wasn’t because he held onto the ball too long, it was because Phoenix already had $45M/yr wrapped up in just 3 players, and JJ would have made it $60M just for 4. At that price, they could fill out their roster with minimum salary players and STILL have been in the luxury tax. They couldn’t afford to keep JJ and have a bench worth more than 2 cents so they wisely let him go (and somehow managed to dupe Billy Knight into thinking that there was a chance in hell they’d re-sign him at more than $9M per year, but that’s a story for another day…).
Anyway, comparing JJ to Roy as far as “who holds the ball more” is just for kicks and giggles anyway because they’re playing in such different systems, as I already said. We can’t say how JJ would look in McMillan’s ball movement oriented system (although as I said, we do know how JJ did in an even more ball movement oriented in Phoenix) or how Roy would do in an ISO offense like Woody’s.
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
6:30 pm
*Roy will be getting 5yr/$82M.
truly1
October 2nd, 2009
6:33 pm
yeah roy is younger then joe
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
6:50 pm
And before anyone blows my post way out of proportion again. if I were Rick Sund, and Kevin Pritchard called me up tomorrow and said “hey, I’ve found a loophole in the CBA that allows us to trade you Brandon Roy for JJ straight up. Wanna make the deal?” . . . well, I’d say “yes” before the upswing of his bipolar disorder ends and he starts to think that every one of his players is a future Hall of Famer again. Because I think Roy and JJ are about even now, and Roy is 3 years younger and cheaper. So please respond to everything I said with those thoughts in mind, and don’t attack straw men…
Sautee
October 2nd, 2009
7:51 pm
kirknga,
Excellent point about the economy.
Big Mouth
October 2nd, 2009
9:11 pm
I think for the Hawks to get over the hump there are three things they need to do within the first 2 months of the season.
1) Get Woodson a contract extention.
2) Get JJ under a new contract.
3) Up grade the Center post by trading Al Horford and Z. Paschulia for Bynum or Shaq
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
9:13 pm
*ding*
Big Mouth
October 2nd, 2009
9:19 pm
Its hard to understand how the Hawks can go any further without the getting woodson under contract. There arent that many quality coaches available and I hate to see woodson coach somewhere else. As for JJ, there are only a hand full of superstars out there and JJ can break teams down. Sign the man.
Big Mouth
October 2nd, 2009
9:21 pm
Does any body know whats up with flip? Is he going to sign?
Joe Mama
October 2nd, 2009
9:27 pm
Hey Matt, I mean Non metal. Do you have a live or do you spend all your time as secretary for the bubba hate association?
Joe Mama
October 2nd, 2009
9:28 pm
*Ding*
Joe Mama
October 2nd, 2009
9:33 pm
life
jerrywest
October 2nd, 2009
9:38 pm
Woodson said, “We haven’t had a young point guard like Teague since I’ve been here, a kid that possess all the different kinds of skills that he does”.
Any doubt Woody hates Acie?
thehawksleftthenest
October 2nd, 2009
9:57 pm
BosnianBaller let me correct you on some points hedo did not average 20 points in the playoffs he averaged 15.8 other than the game winning shot vs. phillie he did not do anything in that series and why is it that every team crawford has been on he gets traded right away you cannot tell me he is a good teammate and you clearly only watched the ecf and the finals not the whole orlando magic season because if you did you would not that hedo is not that big of a playmaker when jameer is playing points he gets most of his points because of teams doubling howard, i love how you act like he runs the orlando magic offense which he really dint do except when jameer was not in the game or when howard was in foul trouble i live in florida and i watch magic games although im a hawks fan hedo he is a system player and in orlando he fit the role perfectly and vince has old legs doe that means that joe smith, jason collins, mike bibby all are worthless cause there just as old as carter???
thehawksleftthenest
October 2nd, 2009
10:08 pm
i totally agree with ramon and if you want me to take it a step further BosnianBaller id you take the aveages that hedo has averaged with the magic the last 2 years out he old averages about 13 to 14 points a game
and we critize carter but carter has been to the playoffs more than jj and you make no sense you say that vince has no help in new jersey (so that means he is the primary offensive option) but you call him a ball hog and carter almost averaged the same amount of assist last year than hedo now imagine that number with the magic which have plenty of weapons… and we criticize vince for not winning a championship with the good new jersey teams then we should also criticize kidd
all in all i believe vince is a much better player than hedo although i will say that hedo is a better defender….
thehawksleftthenest
October 2nd, 2009
10:15 pm
one last thing i forgot to mention in reality if you watch the magic games rashard lewis is the real match up nightmare beucase he is to quick for power foward and he spreads the floor i would argue that he is the real key to the magic success and wats up with all this fuss with hedo he averaged 15.8 pointsand 5.3 in the playoffs rashard lewis averaged 19 points and 6.4 reobunds and hit more key shots than hedo….
Samuel
October 2nd, 2009
10:49 pm
No jerry, he doesn’t hate Acie. Acie is a scrubb. He is the 3rd or 4th string PG right now in Golden State. He’s freekin behind Speedy for God’s sake. Go to Golden State’s web site. They broadcast every practice. He got hurt the first day of training camp.
Bosnian Baller,Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. Turk has yet to make one AllStar appearance. I rest my case.
The Flash
October 2nd, 2009
11:01 pm
niremetal, very, very, very good post. I cannot say that I saw JJ play much at Phoenix, and don’t really remember what I did see. It was enough for me to know that he was not a point guard. I don’t even think that he is a 2. He should be playing a 3.
Without JJ, how do you figure they don’t get a shot at Roy? I’m not understanding that. You think that Paul or Williams would have made that much of a difference? I don’t know when Roy was selected.
There was no reason for JJ to catch, look for himself, look for himself again, before doing something with it the last two years. None. I have difficulty believing that that is what Woody wanted, or more particular Herb, who has the Pman’s ear at least. No, Woody is captive to how JJ plays, not the other way around, at least in my view.
I am no fan of Woody’s style and would have dumped him long ago. But, I think JJ’s style on the court is the one that he favors, the one that he invisions, the one that they sold him on, being da Man.
Didn’t know roy gets all that much money.
Few other words about the two players. Roy makes plays on defense, loose balls, long rebounds, and finishes at the rim. These are the things that separate him from JJ, who does none of them well, and does not move nearly as well with or without the ball in transition.
Ten teams have a selection, Roy goes first 10 times.
They don’t through all that money and all those players (Diaw and picks) at JJ, and take Paul or Williams, I believe that they get Roy and are now playing for Championships. BTW, as I said back then, the steal of free agency was Blake, whom I still can’t believe that they passed on the year that they chose Marvin.
No, the Hawks did not help themselves with the JJ deal. It was wrongheaded, set the team back seriously, and deprived the fans the opportunity to see exciting offensive play both in the half court and runouts that are way too infrequent even when this team is playing well.
Of course, in order to pass on JJ, there would have had to have been no BK doing Gearon’s bidding, and no Woody also, who at that time was BK’s guy. But, that, my friends, is a shole other story that nobody needs to relive.
Terrific work, niremetal, notwithstanding ever I just said, your analysis stands as a solid alternative perspective. Wow, this website is still getting it done, like no other I visit. Props, my brothers, great, great work.
BosnianBaller
October 2nd, 2009
11:06 pm
Samuel I am not saying career wise that hedo is better than carter.carter has had the best career between the 2.I’m not sure he is a hall of famer tho.Right now if I had to choose between the 2 i would pick hedo.
cp
October 2nd, 2009
11:12 pm
I’m loving what I’m reading about Teague and Hunter. I really hope Hunter makes this team. The Warriors were talking about trading Law about a week after they got him. I really wanted the kid to succeed but it looks like he is another good college player whose game didn’t translate as well in the pro’s. He has time to get it together but I don’t know if he has the attitude to get it done.
niremetal
October 2nd, 2009
11:13 pm
Heh. Lots of things I could pick apart in that point, Flash, but I’ll let you get the last word
thehawksleftthenest
October 2nd, 2009
11:19 pm
BosnianBaller i’ll ask you a question and please be truthful how many orlando magic games have you seen last season (not counting games that they played against tha hawks)
Samuel
October 2nd, 2009
11:38 pm
VC
* 8-time NBA All-Star selection: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 (did not play in 2002 due to injury)
* 2-time All-NBA:
o Second Team: 2001
o Third Team: 2000
* NBA Slam Dunk Champion: 2000
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1999
* NBA Rookie of the Year Award: 1999
* The Sporting News NBA Rookie of the Year: 1999[47]
If that’s not Hall of Fame. They should shut the place down.