All smiles at Hawks media day
Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Mike Bibby are all smiles at Hawks media day Monday. The real work at training camp kicked off Tuesday morning.
HAWKSVILLE – You’ve never seen so many smiling faces the day before training camp.
It wasn’t just the players. It was the coaches, the front office brass and even a good portion of the assembled media.
You’ve never seen so many smiling faces on the eve of a camp, at least not recently. And these weren’t forced smiles. These were the genuine kind, the ones you see on faces of teams bound for the playoffs.
It’s strange, in a good way, the effect winning has on people.
“On paper we looked good,” Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said from a corner of the practice court Monday afternoon. “We look real good on paper, so that’s why you see so many smiles around here right now. We’re excited about what this season holds. But the real work starts (in the morning). When the sweat hits the floor, that’s when you know what you’ve really got.”
There’s no doubt the Hawks have their deepest and most balanced training camp roster since I’ve been here, and at least two people in attendance Monday observed that it’s the most seasoned and accomplished group to assemble for a Hawks training camp in a decade.
“It’s going to be interesting,” Marvin Williams said. “Our team itself is pretty deep, probably the deepest team we’ve had since I’ve been here. You could split this group for camp up into four groups of five and have some nasty competition. I know there won’t be any drop off when that second unit is on the floor. but we’ll see in the morning. We’ll see all week.”
Williams admitted to never being terribly excited for a “training camp” but confessed that he’s been eager for Tuesday’s start of real action for quite some time. “Our team has gotten better and we have some new guys that we’re all excited to see in action,” he said, “and I think that’s where the real intrigue comes in for everybody.”
One of the new guys, rookie point guard Jeff Teague, put the finishing touches on the meet and greet portion of his experience with his new teammates Monday. He finally got a chance to meet Joe Smith, the one player he had yet to see since being drafted by the Hawks in June.
“The thing you realize when you see everybody here together is that there’s already a great nucleus in place,” Teague said. “It’s something to be a part of. So you get in here now and realize that you want to get off to a good start and get things rolling right away.”
They kicked things off Monday with a team dinner, a function where Hawks coach Mike Woodson said he would lay out some specifics for his team regarding goals and detailed responsibilities for this season.
“The message is that expectations are always high from where I sit,” Woodson said. “And you can’t be scared of it, you can’t run from it. I’m not scared. I’m not running from it. And the fact that expectations are high means that we have to now try and take that next step. The next step is trying to be in that elite group.”
I reached out to several members of the national media about that very topic regarding the Hawks and received some interesting feedback. While it certainly seems like a possibility, no one is ready to bet house money on the Hawks doing so.
“The NBA remains a league that belongs to the superstars, and unfortunately for them they have none,” ESPN.com’s J.A. Adande wrote in an email. “They have talent and now there’s experience and cohesion to go with it, but they don’t have that one guy who can singlehandedly take over a playoff game on the road. Kobe, Shaq and Tim Duncan played on eight of the 10 championship teams between this decade. The Hawks don’t have anyone of that caliber, not to mention the updated Eastern mix of LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Boston’s Big 3. Because of the consistency the Hawks learned last year they could get to the second round — if the Bulls don’t beat them out for that final berth in the conference semis.”
Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports expressed similar concerns about the Hawks vaulting into that upper tier of the Eastern Conference for the same reasons.
“I think the Hawks’ situation is interesting because more is expected because they were ablet o take another step to the Eastern conference semifinals last year,” he said. “But no one seems to be talking about them in that realm with the big three in the conference. Everybody is talking about Boston, Cleveland and Orlando in the East. So I still think they have a chip on their shoulder. And if you think about it, this team is going to be better for a lot of reasons. First, they’ve got another year of experience and they’re more playoff tested. They were able to re-sign key players and didn’t lose anybody of importance. Their one major weakness, their bench, was aided in impressive fashion, with Jamal Crawford, Joe Smith and Jason Collins and the rookie Teague, all guys that can start if someone gets hurt. So if you look at the Hawks, they’re actually better than they were a year ago. I think what’s hurt them is the fact that they didn’t finish strong in the playoffs, even with their injury problems. And that kept people from taking them seriously as a team that has a chance to move up into that top three. I do see this as a dangerous team with a chip on their shoulder. When it’s all said and done, it’ll be interesting to see if the Hawks take another step forward and live up to their expectations or everybody else’s.”
We’ve talked about it many times around here since that Cleveland series. But what are your realistic expectations for this team this season?
I like Mike Bibby’s take on things, personally, simple but true.
“We got it on paper all day,” Bibby said. “We just have to put it together. Everybody has to have one main goal this season and that main goal is to win. Everything else will take care of itself if we’re operating with that as our No. 1 goal at all times. Individual goals have to be set aside for team goals.”
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
310 comments Add your comment
?
September 28th, 2009
6:30 pm
Agree with J.A Adande.
Ray S
September 28th, 2009
6:35 pm
I think that we have the players to improve and finish in the top 2 or 3 with good team play and hard work. Go Hawks.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:37 pm
2nd!!!
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:37 pm
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:48 pm
?, Youre crazy. J.A is full of it. He’s just a Laker Groupie…..no matter we get to take care of them fairly early in the season and quiet the doubters.
I want the HARDWARE!!!! Now!!!! Like Bibby said, we got this on Paper!!! We just have to put it all together. Signing Stack would still be nice…you never know…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:50 pm
Forget the semis, Forget the ECF….I wanna do what orlando did last season and just jump straight tothe big stage…IF we can performace to mach paper expectations, we’ll be straight.
PD
September 28th, 2009
7:07 pm
I am with Ariose let’s go big and really Shock the World
Mike B.
September 28th, 2009
7:08 pm
Hawks will surprise the rest of the league this season. Just watch and continue to doubt.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
7:10 pm
Looks like the rest of the leauge will get a look into our training camp:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/09/28/realcamp.release/
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
7:15 pm
SEKOU!!! Does Mike Bibby do these drills? He should be…Get the coaching staff on that!!!!
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
7:58 pm
Oops, I meant these Drils:
http://www.nba.com/video/flip_video_diaries/2009/09/28/nba_090928_flip_fisher_workout.nba/
…I dont think he does lol….
The Truth
September 28th, 2009
8:45 pm
This statement by Woody is disturbing:
“And the fact that expectations are high means that we have to now TRY and take that next step. The next step is TRYING to be in that elite group.”
If Woody was enrolled in Yoda’s training school, he would have already FAILED before he got started.
“Do or Do Not, Never Try”
Yoda:
Najeh Davenpoop
September 28th, 2009
9:09 pm
Realistically, Adande’s take sounds right — with no real superstars it’s hard to see the Hawks beating any of the big 3 (assuming they are healthy) in a 7-game series, especially if they don’t have home court advantage. But here’s the thing — nobody thought Orlando could beat Boston and Cleveland last year either, and due to matchup issues and injuries they were able to deal with both in the playoffs. Creating matchup problems has potentially been one of the Hawks’ main strengths for a few years now due to their versatility, and if Woodson actually sticks to his word and makes it a point to push tempo more often it could be the difference between a 2nd round loss and a conference finals berth.
I think losing in the conference finals is about as realistic as a goal the Hawks can have this year. About this time last year, I said the same thing about losing in the 2nd round, which is what they ended up doing. This year they have to show, at a minimum, that they belong in the 2nd round (in other words don’t get swept) and preferably they should make the conference finals and show that they belong there.
Sekou Smith
September 28th, 2009
9:29 pm
It’s hard to argue with J.A. on this one, mostly because he has those cold hard facts on his side. You need at least one superstar or something remarkably close (C. Billups) to win a title. I’m realistic, though. I don’t think the Hawks are on the championship track right now. They’re in see-how-far-this-group-can-take-us-and-then-start-to-tinker mode right now. A year from now, if they’re not on the championship track, then I’d have a bone to pick with someone.
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
9:30 pm
Superstar theory?
At this point, offensively, JJ is better than any of the 3 old Celtics.
Carter had a better career, but at this point I’d rather have JJ to finish the game.
This year, if they double JJ, Crawford will score 30+ effortlessly. They can’t double both of them. The open one will go nuts. You think all stars Nelson/MoWill cancover one of these two? JJ+JC combo will be unstoppable.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
9:31 pm
Co-sign Najeh.
The funny thing about the NBA is that if a team hits a hot streak at the right time – like the Magic did last year, the Cavs did in ‘07, and the Heat did in ‘06 – they can make a deep playoff run.
And success in the NBA breeds success. You didn’t see Orlando spending big on the free agent and trade market until this summer, after they made their deep run (which, as Najeh pointed out, no one saw coming…everyone thought the Boston-Cleveland ECF was pre-ordained). That’s just the way it goes in the NBA if you’re not a traditional basketball powerhouse in a large media market like Bos, Chi, LA, or NY.
The Hawks will need both good coaching and Lady Luck on their side to break through to the Conference Finals, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. But if the stars do align, the Hawks will be in damned good shape going into next summer’s crazy offseason.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
9:34 pm
Sekou, I see your point, but I think this teamhas a realistic shot right now….of course,only time will tell.
Jerrywest, EXACTLY!!
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
9:35 pm
We need to get Stackhouse to get couple of extra unlikely road wins that will do wonders for our confidence. Referees will start to give us calls when we’ll beat one of the big 3s on the road.
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
9:40 pm
Facts about Jamal Crawford,
1. He can play point guard offensively and defensively. He just sucks playing defense against strong shooting guards.
2. He required double teaming and he can score on anybody when single covered.
When JJ+JC will play together, we will have two point guards with 6-8 wingspan who require double teaming. Show me a team that can match up against this combo?
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
9:40 pm
What makes a superstar? Are they just labled that right off the bat? Like Smoove said, we don’t have those “title names” but we’ve earned EVERYTHING we’ve gotten, regardless of what Laker Lover J.A and Haters like John Schuhmann want to say about us. We will get the respect we deserve once we wipe the floor with the competition this season.
We’ve got tons of “Stars” and Talented High draft picks, and I think this year it will all come together and were going to embarass a lot of teams this season. Mark it down…..I said it. ECF Baby!!!!
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
9:41 pm
That is, unless the EVIL Woodson shows up this season and dooms us all…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
9:44 pm
Jerrywest, I agree. We need to sign Stackhouseor some other Wing befor the preseason starts.
swatguy
September 28th, 2009
9:46 pm
We can be very very dangerous. I really believe it depends on our frontcourt. Will Al be dominant in some way. Will the group be physically effective day in and day out. Our backcourt can be terrifying as Teague matures (and not be scared). I think we do need a Full roster of 15 with extra bigs in tow.
The big question is, will Jamal win the scoring title from the bench? And keep Joe to 32 minutes a game.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 28th, 2009
9:46 pm
Proofread?
?
September 28th, 2009
9:52 pm
I hope the Hawks start the season like last year! They won like 7 in a row.
?
September 28th, 2009
9:59 pm
Together JJ and Crawford form a superstar!
IronJ146
September 28th, 2009
9:59 pm
I think what gets lost by many sportswriters is star-power vs. actual wins. What about those Pistons teams earlier this decade? Billups wasn’t really considered top-tier until he started winning in Detroit. We knew who he was, and he knew he was good, but he wasn’t on the cover of anything until they got a ring. Winning will make these guys “stars”, and that comes with accomplishing our goals. Let them take advantage of another year to fly under the national radar, and once we start knocking people off, we’ll get the respect and have the “stars” everyone’s looking for.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
9:59 pm
Ariose,
Yup, you’re exactly right. Nike and Adidas decide who is a superstar. Magic and Larry were, Gervin and English weren’t. Kareem and Walton were, Artis Gilmore wasn’t (how is he STILL not in the Hall??). Earl Monroe was, but Wes Unseld wasn’t. I think it’s almost beyond dispute that Tim Duncan is the best player of the post-Jordan era, but the discussion always revolves around Shaq, Kobe, and (now) LeBron. This despite the fact that Duncan won 4 rings and has never played on a team that has lost more than 29 games (and despite the fact that he won a title in ‘03 with the weakest supporting cast on a title winning team in at least 25 years).
And those are just guys whose numbers and wins justified the title “superstar.” That doesn’t even get into the Shane Battier syndrome (if the guy doesn’t do well in the arbitrary world that is basketball statistics, he isn’t worth mentioning).
I honestly think the difference between Wade and JJ is a lot less than most people seem to think – don’t forget the remarkable depth that the Heat had when Wade won his ring in ‘06 (a team on which Wade played alongside 3 future Hall of Famers, was coached by a fourth, and basically didn’t have to (and didn’t) play defense). He averaged 25ppg before teams figured out that the Hawks’ offense consisted of “give the ball to JJ and everyone else stand 20 feet away without moving.” Even now, JJ can take over games, and often does. Anyone who actually watches the Hawks’ damned games would have to be blind to deny that. But those occasions are forgotten in a hurry because we’re not bombarded with images of JJ on Nike and T-Mobile commercials.
?
September 28th, 2009
10:03 pm
So, do the Hawks play a pre season game againts Orlando on ESPN?
Samuel
September 28th, 2009
10:11 pm
I agree that we are not Top 3 material, however, if the cards fall right and we happen to play the Celtics in the 2nd round, we can beat them. I don’t believe we can beat any of the other two teams(Cleveland and Orlando) in a 7 game series. We just don’t match up well with them.
We have proven that we do match up well with Boston and they have gotten a year older. I could see a serious second round series with them.
There will be much more competition for the 4th spot. Miami, Washington and Chicago will be some serious competition this year but I believe we will hold them off due to our new acquisitions.
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
10:14 pm
sounds like shots at Joe to me… i look for the Jigga man to have a big year….
Dan
September 28th, 2009
10:15 pm
I really think this group, as long as injuries do not get in the way, can make it to the Eastern Conference Finals. And, I really think Boston is going to fall back to the pack this year. They are getting old and adding ‘Sheed is not as big of deal as some are making. Hawks will be nipping at their heels all year for the third spot.
I still say the Hawks would have pushed Cleveland hard in round 2 last year, if not for all the injuries.
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
10:15 pm
sounds like non malicious shots at Joe to me… i look for the Jigga man to have a big year….
rusty
September 28th, 2009
10:20 pm
jj cant begin to compare with wade. he moves in slow
motion compared to wade. when wade takes over he is great,when joe tries to take over the hawks play lousy.
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
10:23 pm
Co-sign Sekou and Najeh.
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
10:24 pm
rusty,
No one is saying JJ is fast like Wade, but he is a hack of a lot faster than Pierce and Ray Allen.
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
10:24 pm
Rusty,
Yeah, as long as he’s getting all the calls he wants. We saw last year what happens when he doesn’t….
Big Ray
September 28th, 2009
10:25 pm
Jerrywest,
Stackhouse will give us a couple of extra road wins? Damn, you should be his agent. That’s quite a pitch…
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
10:28 pm
Who do you give the ball with 20 seconds left in the game?
1. LeBron.
2. Wade.
3. Agent 0 with Butler & Jamison protecting him.
3(tie). JJ when Crawford protects him from getting double teamed.
Carter, Pierce, Allen, Howard, Garnett, Bosh are not in top 4
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
10:30 pm
i feel great about this year… the only concern of mine is the SF position. as constructed i feel like we can beat the C’s or the Magic if we were to see them in a 7 gm series… however, i still think the Cavs present a problem. to me the key to beating the Cavs is having depth at SF. that Turk/Pietrus dual threat was key to the Magic success that series. i look for a lot of Joe Johnson at the 3 this year… and im banking on Crawford answering the bell at the 2 when needed…
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
10:31 pm
Yeah, the Hawks sure sucked when JJ took over against Boston twice. And they sucked when they went 9-4 in games where JJ scored 30+ last year. And they sucked even more when he took over in Game 7 against Miami. You know, when he played through the pain instead of whining about it like Wade.
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
10:38 pm
Crawford matches up against Cleveland’s shooting guards well, but he is too weak to guard Carter or Ray Allen. Against Cleveland we can use Marvin and occasionally JJ to guard LeBron. LeBron won’t play any smallish small forward when he’ll play us.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
10:38 pm
Whooo! Tellem Nire!!! Amen!!!
I cant wait to see JJ work off Crawford this seasn. It’s going to be a NIGHTMARE for opposing teams to deal with.
Speaking of nightmares:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/9/28/1055452/kg-+-sheed-on-court-its-going-to
BTW, I posted the Hawks media day stuff on Sekou’s last blog if you haven’t checked it out yet…
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
10:40 pm
Here was my favorite – in ‘06-’07, back when JJ wasn’t getting the double teams he does now, the Hawks went 12-7 in games where he scored 30+. In all other games that year, the Hawks went 18-45 (including 8-17 in the games where he was out altogether):
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3520/gamelog;_ylt=AiHDt_uhzY0tCnmBUnp.aCGTPKB4?year=2006
So yeah. The Hawks are just lousy when JJ takes over.
In any case, hopefully now that Crawford’s around to take some pressure off JJ, we’ll see a lot more of those games where JJ takes over. Maybe we’ll see the return of the guy who averaged 25ppg and shot 47% from the floor…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
10:42 pm
Bigdave, THats why I’ve been calling for another Wing this whole offseason lol. I really hope Rick thinks this through and signs Stack or G.Green or somebody! I really don’t want to have to watch Smoove guard LeBron at the SF spot. Not because he can’t, but because it doesn’t make the best use of his abilities.
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
10:51 pm
Rose…
no its b/c he cant… neither can Mo… a healthy Marvin was decent early in the season against him but they seem to like to call BS calls on Marvin…
Joe Johnson does a number when matched up on Lebron…and Wade… and Kobe… its just he cant (couldnt last year) do it the whole game b/c u knew you had to preserve him for all those mins/double teams/and offensive responsibilities… Crawford having a big year would be huge!! b/c it will REALLY allow “Joe to be Joe” a monster and hell for any 1 on 1 assignment… and i cant wait to see what Teague brings at the pro level…
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
10:54 pm
Rose…
and im high on the Cave Man too… but given his age im not too sure his skill set is what we need at SF…
but another grizzled vet wouldnt hurt… i just want us to reverse last years road record…
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
11:04 pm
Co-sign bigdave’s post. Marvin did a damned good job covering LeBron in the game right before he got hurt, and JJ did a damned good job when he matched up against him in the playoffs. But Woodson was understandably uneasy about using JJ too much on LeBron because it required him to expend so much energy. Add to that JJ’s foot injury…
Josh did an outstanding job against KG in the Boston series last year. But he is most definitely not a good matchup for LeBron. He takes too many risks when he plays on-ball perimeter D, which is fatal since he doesn’t really have the lateral quickness to stay in front of LeBron. Those things aren’t necessarily fatal against most players because Josh is so athletic, but Josh has no chance of catching up to LeBron if LeBron gets by him. If you don’t keep LeBron in front of you, you’re toast.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
11:11 pm
Nire, So true. BUT Josh DID get that one block lol!!! It’s at the end of his 08-09′ GameTime mix if you wanna look at it again…
Josh would hae to be way more discliplined of he wanted to play SF for extended minutes….I thin that’ll come with more maturity. I think he knows now that he can’t gamble against Lebron…..also we seem to have a few players who need to work on their defensive footwork lol..
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
11:13 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRLgvJFhYM0
“YOSHIMY SHALOSH”
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
11:13 pm
Bigdave, I with you, we need somebody with a 6-7, 6-8 frame to hold down one of those last spots as an insurance policy. Stack may not be Ideal, But he can play SG while Joe guards Lebron in need be(Marvin injured etc..)
ILL-logical
September 28th, 2009
11:14 pm
“Individual goals have to be set aside for team goals.”
Is that intuition or are you just wishing? Sounds as if Bibby is sending someone a message. Could it be someone who is in the last year of their contract and looking for a big payday?
On another note, it seems to me that the Hawks will be hard pressed to win it all with Al at center. As has been noted both here and in the national media, he is undersized and often overmatched. Now to realy thow a curve; Woodson-whose talent eye has been somewhat validated by the play of some of the recent castoffs like Acie- and Sund feel as if he is center.Maybe they don’t believe that he is mobile enough to play outside the paint despite his straight away footspeed. Does he have a smooth offensive game, a consistent 15 footer? The answer to these and other questions re Al could go a long way in determining the Hawks future success.
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
11:22 pm
attention NBA:
you send all those defenders at Joe if you want and try ya luck with this SOB…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oifzy782vn8
can’t wait til he pulls out his bag of goodies at Tha Phil… the place is gonna go crazy…
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
11:25 pm
Ill-Logical…
thank you sir… as im one of the biggest critics of Al’s game… this isnt the SEC where u can just play bully ball in the post.. its The League.. and some post skill is needed…
The Truth
September 28th, 2009
11:56 pm
I think the real wild card in the Hawks poker hand may not be the likely Crawford (since he has a higher Flip threshold to exceed) but an unlikely Teague because he apparently blows AC Law threshold away. According to his billing, he brings a dimension that the Hawks previously haven’t had since Jason Terry. That’s our real gravy compared to last year. He could be the X factor in winning the close games. The question is will Woody play him extended minutes if he shines? According to Woody own words during his interview about Teague: Though he is excited about what Teague brings, he said (basically) because he is rookie, he’s not going to put too much on him. That sounds like Teague will get only AC Law minutes no matter how well he performs.
This discussion about super-star(ism) and the Hawks maybe a bit over-blown; was Paul Pierce a super star before KG and Ray Allen came to Bean-town and won a title? Some would argue that he was like JJ a good talented player but no superstar. Would Chauncey Billups be called a superstar if he hadn’t won his title in Detroit? In most cases super-star(ism) is something that is bestowed upon you after the fact. I think Mike Bibby spoke to this debate quite nicely:
“Everybody has to have one main goal this season and that main goal is to win. Everything else will take care of itself if we’re operating with that as our No. 1 goal at all times.”
This is how Detroit did it. They just won and played one game at a time. All the accolades including the super-star label will come after the fact.
I MUS WRITE
September 29th, 2009
1:27 am
Championship!! Championship!!! Come on man,-What we talk’n bout? Championship!?? Who the hell said that? I need to send the twins to your home with some holy water and a bible…….. The man is clearly possessed…. HAWK FEVA is what he got…..
Championship………UHHHHHHM YEAH…STOP IT MAN
Why is Ray’s comments high lighted? I mean, Is he on the payroll? Is he like Robin to Sekou’s Batman or sumthing? O wait forgot he’s: The Man,The People,One Time,The fuzz,12… Jeezuz this list goes on forever…. LOL Come on man u knew it wuz coming hahaha.
Im a little on edge right now- Dogg sitting and “Babby” keeps shytt’n on my cream colored carpet….. That aient rght yall- Im a dam good friend.
Anybody else up im bored as hell- I was on EBAY a cupl hours ago and found a TWISTER BOARD. O Yeah its going down at the next get together….Im looking for a”STRETSCH ARMSTRONG” my favorite child hood toy-anybody Remember that…..It was the Shyt
Chess time Me against the Toshiba.
Ariose are you on the coffee aagin?
O before I forget……………. Drum Roll Please
Randolph Morris is a wet diaper
” ” a bag of fish heads
” ” the sweat on a big girls boobs
” ” a bag of sour clothes
” ” like school on saturday
” ” arrm pits after 36hrs of no deodorant
” ” my gurlfriends face after i let one slip ;(
” ” the stink from a pot of chittlinz
” ” that grease in that crisco can on your stove
” ” the fungus that causes athletes foot
Can You hear Me Now!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
September 29th, 2009
2:15 am
Ill-logical and bigdave ,
Tell me, who on the Hawks roster would you rather have starting at center, other than Horford? Don’t get me wrong, I am with you on the “undersized” argument. Hell, even Alonzo Mourning was labeled as undersized. And dude was a monster. But who do you replace him with on this roster? Better question: who do you get to replace him at center from the outside (that’s better than him), and how do you get him? Just askin’, because I know I haven’t figured it out, and it seems the Hawks front office hasn’t either. Teams and front officer personnel are going to say what they’re going to say. No way do they announce to the public that they don’t think Al is a center….that is, until they can find a bigger guy who works as a starter.
As to Al’s offense, it’s real easy to bang on him, isn’t it? Out of the top six scorers in the Hawks rotation last year, who took the least number of shots? That’s right, it was Horford. He took less than Flip, who was coming off the bench. He took less than Marvin, who is often maligned for not being aggressive enough, and who also played 6 fewer regular season games than Horford did. Yet Horford was good for 53% from the field.
So that tells us it isn’t because he simply sucks. Kinda hard to score and do your thing when you don’t get the ball, don’t you think? Dude was never a game-long offensive feature for the Hawks. We played a seriously backcourt heavy offense, and Horford was the dirty work guy as it was. Now, I remember seeing him with a rather nice 15 foot jumper, when he could get the ball. I can’t count the number of times he would go 5-8 in the first quarter and a half, then not get the ball for the rest of the game, unless he was grabbing a rebound.
Am I saying he’s got crazy skills we haven’t seen? Nope. I am saying he’s got skills he hasn’t had a chance to show, though.
Here’s a stat for you. Horford only got 10 or more shot attempts in 29 of the 67 games he played in. Of those 29 games, only ONCE did he fail to produce double figures in points. Once. And only 6 of those times did he fail to shoot 50% or better. And in 24 games where he got 8 or 9 shot attempts, he scored in double figures 14 times.
I agree that his offensive repertoire is not legendary by any stretch, but I don’t think it can be chalked up to a lack of skills nearly as much as it can be due to the team’s offensive system design.
….but that’s just how I see it. You know what they say about stats….
Big Ray
September 29th, 2009
2:21 am
IMUS ,
There needs to be a rule: don’t mix IMUS with 1) a sh!tty dog, 2) boredom, and 3) E-bay. Never mind the alcohol, if that’s even involved. Well, with a sh!t shootin’ dog, you probably would be better served. In fact, your “friend” owes you a bottle of Jamaican Rum or sumpin’….I can’t stand dog doo doo in my house. That 165 pound Mastiff sitting in the corner knows all about that. It ain’t happenin’ ’round hyah, dig?
Oh, do you like my comments better this way? Heh. No, I’m not quite good enough to be Sekou’s robin sidekick. But I am co-hosting the fan blog again this year. Stop by and shoot the bull with Po Po, lol…..
Big Ray
September 29th, 2009
2:22 am
Hey, do you ever say all that when Randolph Morris comes by your workplace?
Maxx
September 29th, 2009
5:59 am
Honestly, the Hawks may not have any of the top flight “superstars” in the NBA, but we have two All-star caliber guys (three if Smoov plays D like he can and stops shooting 3s and sticks to his strengths)and plenty of quality role players. What we lacked last year was depth and bigs, and hopefully we fixed that this offseason. I thinks the Hawks could really suprise this year, except for the fact that Boston will be tough with Sheed and a healthy Garnett, and Lebron and Shaq is jsut downright scary, not to mention Danny Green
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:23 am
Ariose/Ray,
That list of SFs is nothing. Check out Kelly Dwyer’s ranking of SGs this decade. Stackhouse, Redd, and Roy all ranked ahead of JJ, who isn’t even on the list. I can see an argument for Stackhouse over JJ in 2000-2002, and for Roy over JJ this past year, but for the whole decade? Not that this should be a surprise – people have been underrating the Hawks both individually and collectively since the days of Lou Hudson. The Hawks hate will never ever end.
Can you feel the hate tonight…
BRAD
September 29th, 2009
7:32 am
Last year, the Hawks starting 5 could play with just about any team. The problem was the bench. They have greatly improved their bench, should pay big dividends this season.
BRAD
September 29th, 2009
7:34 am
starters–Joe, Smooth, Bibby, Marvin and Al. Bench–Teague, Crawford, Zaza, Joe Smith, Mo Evans, Jason Collins–thats a pretty solid bench.
Willie Coyote
September 29th, 2009
8:01 am
To win without a true superstar, you have to be a flat out better team that is relentless and mentally tough enough to shrug off a bad call given to an opposing superstar (that never happens in the NBA, right?). This is what Detroit did when they won it all last. No superstars, they just kept after you regardless of what happened in the game. If the Hawks are collectively mature enough to overcome the Lebron calls and concentrate on outplaying their competition, they will definitely not be an easy out for any of the “elite” teams come playoff time.
?
September 29th, 2009
8:40 am
PG. Mike Bibby
SG. Crawford
SF. Joe Johnson
PF. Josh Smith
C. Al Horford
Marvin comes off the bench.
wordsmithtom
September 29th, 2009
8:46 am
We know JJ will hunt. With the veteran additions to the bench, the maturity of Williams and Smith should really show. Horford, despite his size, is a leader and consumate team player. Looks much like the team Bibby lead to championship when Weber was there. Williams reminds me of Weber. We forget Marvin Williams was one year out of high school when he came into the league. He’s gotten better every year and I think he’s set for a breakout year.
Yes, Detroit is a good example of what this team can do without a true star. If they play team ball, they could be the best TEAM in this league, save the Lakers.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
8:46 am
?
That would be a good lineup for offense, but for defense that would suck. When need to keep MW in the lineup for defense purposes.
?
September 29th, 2009
8:48 am
But it would be a small line up.
?
September 29th, 2009
8:51 am
Macaroni tony: True
vava74
September 29th, 2009
9:06 am
I simply do not understand how everyone is so confident in Orlando having a good season.
It could happen, but it can also go really bad:
1. Howard is a physical beast, however, he is still very limited offensively which makes him a so so option when the game is on the line, specially since he is a liability from the FT line.
2. I like Nelson, but I think he is overrated: defensively he is a huge liability and offensively he demands the ball to much to be effective with Vince on his side. He completely killed the team chemistry in the finals (blame SVG for that).
3. Rashard was playing juiced at the end of the season and will be monitored closely in order not to be doing it again. Furthermore, he will be out for a significant portion of the season. His passing game is suspect, which makes him a completely different option than the Turk at the 3 spot.
4. Vince has never been involved in any kind of really successful BBall and I don’t think this will be different. He is a liability defensively, making Orlando’s back court with Nelson porous, to put it kindly and offensively he is a major choker.
5. Last year, Orlando was successful with a Point Forward running the offense which is now gone (the Turk), creating a lot of miss matches which were fundamental during the playoffs.
6. Part of the success in the playoffs was also the responsibility of Alston – now also gone – who was playing his best bball ever, hitting the 3’s, penetrating and dishing, etc…
7. They traded their most complete back court player in Courtney Lee who was very good going both ways (off and def), which worked as a dynamo.
8. Bass is not a game changer and although his contribution will be solid, he does not bring anything remarkable to the table.
9. They will need to set up a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT system from one year ago and I am betting that they will struggle. I simply do not trust in SVG’s ability to overhaul their game with just 30 days of training camp.
?
September 29th, 2009
9:09 am
How can Michael Redd be on team U.S.A but not JJ?
rob
September 29th, 2009
9:14 am
I Agree with vava74
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
9:17 am
That should have said (We).
vava74
September 29th, 2009
9:18 am
Also, I don’t think JJ and Crawford are a viable option in the starting 5 since this would turn our back court a highway for the opposite offense.
Our defense is already quite bad when we have Bibby being backed into the zone or getting lost in the picks…
Crawford – JJ could be a good combination in set occasions in the 4th quarter, sometimes at Bibby’s expense (with Crawford manning the PG spot) and sometimes at Marvin or Josh’s expense, depending on who is being more effective on any given game.
ILL-logical
September 29th, 2009
9:28 am
The challenge that I posed regarding Al ’s position as center was not to question his ability or even his capability but to provoke thought regarding the current “system” that curtails his and several other players growth and development.
For example, Jason Collins has started on several teams including the Nets team that went to the finals. Could he give the team 20 minutes a night with vetern savvy, strong rebounding and solid mistake free defense? Don’t know but he has done it in the past. Second, Many Marvin fans lament his lack of scoring opportunities and cite his defense as his primary contribution as a starter at the 3. Well, how about him coming off the bench as the primary scoring otion? Look what Orlando gets from Peitrus(sp); now most would agree that Marvin is a better offensive player and at least his equal defensively.Would this arrangement work in terms of additional wins? Again, I don’t know but believe that it’s worth a try.
My point is that if the Hawks are going to become a championship caliber team ther has to be a strategic approach to the task. Good teams play the regular season to make the playoffs; great teams play the regular season to get ready for the playoffs.The current incumbant head coach has been confined by both circumstances and his judgement to a serise of tactical decisions. This off season’s activities addressed most of the circumstantial issue.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
9:28 am
ATLANTA (AP) — Jamal Crawford, a starter through most of his nine years in the NBA, says he’s ready for a new role as a backup with the Atlanta Hawks.
Crawford averaged 19.7 points with the New York Knicks and Golden State last season. The 29-year-old has started each of his 145 games the last two seasons, but with Atlanta he’s expected to find minutes behind established starters Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby in the Hawks’ backcourt.
Crawford insists he’s not worried about his playing time as the Hawks prepare to open training camp on Tuesday. It helps that he’s comfortable at point guard and shooting guard.
“I think there will be plenty of minutes,” he said Monday. “I think we’ll all play off each other and help each other. We’re all veterans who have been in the game for a while now, so we understand what we need to win. We’re all pulling for each other.”
The Hawks have been known for their youth through their five-year rise from a 13-win team to the second round of the Playoffs last season.
Crawford replaces Flip Murray in the role of the team’s high-scoring backup guard. Murray signed with the Charlotte Bobcats on Saturday.
It’s a new role for Crawford, who has 393 career starts and has averaged at least 32 minutes per game for each of the last six seasons.
He scored 50 points for Golden State at Charlotte last season to join Wilt Chamberlain, Moses Malone and Bernard King as the only players in NBA history to score 50 or more points in games for three different teams. Crawford also had 50-point games with Chicago and New York.
He averaged a career-high 20.6 points for the Knicks in the 2006-07 season.
Crawford’s new teammates say he’ll earn his minutes.
“Jamal fits in anywhere,” said forward Marvin Williams. “At the end of the day, he can play basketball. He has proven that.”
Johnson, who made his third straight All-Star team last season, doesn’t like coming out of games. He averaged almost 40 minutes last year, and Bibby played almost 35 minutes per game.
So how will coach Mike Woodson find playing time for Crawford, especially as he also adds first-round pick Jeff Teague into the mix at point guard?
“He shouldn’t have any problem,” Woodson said. “He can score. That just adds another dimension to our ballclub.”
Teague may be seen as the point guard of the future, but Crawford is a veteran capable of taking over for Bibby or Johnson this year.
“Jamal is such a great scorer and he passes the ball well,” said center Al Horford. “I’m excited we’re able to have him here because he’s going to be able to create and take some pressure off Joe.”
Added Bibby: “I think Jamal will be good for us. He’s the kind of guy who can create his own shots and create shots for other people, too. We need another person to bring the ball up the court so I don’t have to handle it every time or Joe doesn’t have to handle it every time.”
Woodson could experiment with a three-guard lineup, with the 6-foot-7 Johnson playing forward in some situations. But that would leave the Hawks with a small lineup.
Woodson said finding time for the 6-foot-5 Crawford and the other newcomers “is a good problem to have.”
“Only camp will determine a lot of that,” Woodson said. “I’ve got to figure out a lot of that. When you start adding more depth to your ballclub, it takes a little time to figure out. You need to evaluate guys and get the new guys acclimated to your system.”
The Hawks acquired Crawford from the Warriors only hours before the NBA draft for guards Acie Law and Speedy Claxton.
Crawford had his differences with Golden State coach Don Nelson, who indicated to Crawford last season that he wasn’t in the team’s future plans. Nelson sat Crawford for a game against Charlotte on Feb. 27 and benched him twice in one week during March.
Crawford was ready for a move. He smiled on Monday as he looked at his new teammates.
“Wherever coach wants me to play, I’ll play,” he said. “That’s not a problem at all. We have a lot of options. That’s something that is exciting for me and for the ballclub.”
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
10:12 am
Notes: The Grizzlies announced they agreed to let guard Marko Jaric(notes) not join them for training camp and have given his agent permission to talk with other teams. … They also signed Thomas Gardner(notes), Leon Rodgers and Mike Taylor(notes) to finalize their training camp roster.
Good for Thomas Gardner!
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
10:37 am
Tony I beat you to the Gardner News by a bout three days lol
That was a good article Lots of good info in there. It’s funy to her Bibby talk about having another Ballhandler so he doesn’t have to bring it up everytime. This just highlights the fact that he can’t dribble anymore lol.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
10:38 am
In honor of the first active day of training camp, **Sekou** and all the readers, I’m curious to know, who are your:
MVP Prediction,
Coach of the Year Prediction,
And teams to meet in the Finals Prediction.
(I’m excited my ESPN Auction Draft starts in 3 minutes, lol.)
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
10:44 am
Guys check the FEED we’ve got ACTION!!!!
http://twitter.com/atlanta_hawks
?
September 29th, 2009
10:51 am
Teams to meet in finals: Lakers and Celtics
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
10:56 am
Ariose, lol:
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
11:00 am
Lakers and Cavaliers (whom I don’t like), but this will not be a season where so many teams win over 60 games. Teams have beefed up too much. The Wizards will be ok, Dallas, Toronto, and our Hawks will shock the world. It’s On: Go Hawks!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
11:08 am
I say Lakers and Boston. I want to say Cleveland but I think the league doesn’t want Cleveland to win a championship just to get Lebron from out of Ohio.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
11:09 am
Woody is as old school as they come. “You guys talk about wanting to be a running team, well you better be in shape!” ….Twitter
That’s classic. Gives you hope.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
11:10 am
Lamar Odum=WOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDPwKYEjUG8&feature=sub
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
11:23 am
Ariose I agree that something is clearly crazy about this situation, but I say just live life.
Paul C
September 29th, 2009
11:23 am
Everyone wants to hate, but the hawks are gonna fight for a spot in the finals.
GO HAWKS!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
11:26 am
I really don’t think the wedding is all that crazy. You have to remember Odom went through a tragedy the other season. If both of them feel as if they’ve found someone to gain strength in and someone they can trust, then its ok. People saying she is doing it for the money, but that makes no sense when her family has way more money than any one on the Lakers roster. I wish them the best.
vava74
September 29th, 2009
11:39 am
Ariose,
Why are you going all Oprah? Who cares about Odom’s marriage!?!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
11:42 am
Hey guys, later this week, do any of you want to do a free auction league on ESPN for the season? Think it would be fun.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
11:58 am
Big Ray,
Can you please not bolden your name? Everyone wants Sekou updates — not your worthless banter.
Thanks
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
12:01 pm
I saw pics from Media Day yesterday and Horford’s arms are still skinny as hell. Is this guy ever going to be the size of a center?
Daniel
September 29th, 2009
12:01 pm
Ramon- I would be interested but what is an auction league?
Tribe- dude, that’s rough.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
12:03 pm
If JJ is not signing an extension, let’s play out this year and then S&T him and Crawford and get Dwyane Wade or Bosh or Amare in here.
We can tweak around next summer if we need to.
We have the pieces to get a superstar in town. If JJ wants to have an attitude again this year and not trust his teammates, then fine. We can do better
Daniel
September 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
Tribe- Both Wade and Bosh are unrestricted next year, so a S/T is highly unlikely. Particularly since both New York teams will be pushing for the hard. The best scenario is for Joe to sign an extension.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
12:07 pm
Vava, I’m just sayin’….lol
GeeMack
September 29th, 2009
12:15 pm
Ariose
I think you are reaching with Orlando Nelson is better than any point guard the Hawks put on the floor. Vince is just as effective as JJ. Also remember VC is a 7 time all star. Eventhough Howard might be limited offensively. He is far better than any big man the Hawk put on the floor. Defensively Howard is a game changer. For all of Howards limits offensively. Last year he averaged 1 point less than JJ (our leading scorer. Also JSmoove and Al Horford are just as limited in what they can do offensively.
The Magic starting 5 is better than Atlanta, and their bench is just as deep.
I am thrilled with the depth of this Hawks team, but Cle, Bos, & Orl. did just as much to better their starters and deepen their bench.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
12:17 pm
Marvin said every team should strive for a championship. But Sekou wants to wait till next year.
I say it’s about the Now!
GeeMack
September 29th, 2009
12:22 pm
Vava74
think you are reaching with Orlando Nelson is better than any point guard the Hawks put on the floor. Vince is just as effective as JJ. Also remember VC is a 7 time all star. Eventhough Howard might be limited offensively. He is far better than any big man the Hawk put on the floor. Defensively Howard is a game changer. For all of Howards limits offensively. Last year he averaged 1 point less than JJ (our leading scorer. Also JSmoove and Al Horford are just as limited in what they can do offensively.
The Magic starting 5 is better than Atlanta, and their bench is just as deep.
I am thrilled with the depth of this Hawks team, but Cle, Bos, & Orl. did just as much to better their starters and deepen their bench.
Ariose my bad that was for my man Vava74.
james
September 29th, 2009
12:22 pm
Where are all the media pictures ? How come we see pictures of Mo Evans with no shirt on lol but not one media day picture of Crawford or Joe Smith ?
I disagree with Adande . I think Crawford will open up the floor for Joe and he will take that step but I also would not be surprised if Crawford walked into an opponents gym in the playoffs and tossed a 20 point quarter on someone for the win.
Crawford is streaky but hes the type of streaky that when he gets going it doesnt matter what building or who is guarding him you are gonna start doubling him to get it out of his hands . Considering Crawford has been one of the best 4th quarter scorers for the last several years Im a bit surprised by Adande comments .
ILL-logical
September 29th, 2009
12:29 pm
Well maybe it’s time to seriously think about a Hawks team without Joe Johnson. My first thought after reading about his decision to seek free agency was to trade him now! No use getting down the road and having Joe play for his big payday and not for the team. His comments about his personal goals does not inspire me with confidence regarding his priorities.
After some reflection, I re-considered and thought : this could be about Woody. Both Joe and Woody may be trying to sway Mr. Sund from his previously stated positions. Problem is they both may be gone from here. Of course, that may be both of their goals anyway.
One thing for sure , the stakes just got a lot higher for the Hawks’ future success.
GeeMack
September 29th, 2009
12:41 pm
ILL-logical
JJ wants to win a title, and he knows that joining another elite player betters his chances. He can still make money and join LBJ or Wade and they instantly become contenders. This team with him as the takeover guy is bound for the 2nd and that’s it.
?
September 29th, 2009
12:41 pm
Celtics on sportcenter
?
September 29th, 2009
12:45 pm
Wow JJ.
no name
September 29th, 2009
12:53 pm
Trade JJ and forget the playoffs lets get the number 1 pick on the next draft and lets hope that get we the next Lebron!
dap01
September 29th, 2009
12:54 pm
JJ came here for selfess reasons, so we have to accept that he might leave for the same reasons.
I hope that this makes him play at a very high level. Will he want to reduce him minutes (best for the team) or will he want to play as many minutes as possible to pad his stats? (best for him).
Anyway, looks like the Hawks will draft a shooting guard next year and they may have $15 million to spend.
PDubATL
September 29th, 2009
12:56 pm
Well, if I were his agent, I wouldnt have him re-sign either. The economy should be in better shape next year and he’ll get a max contract offer from someone. We’ll still have a chance to resign him then, we’ll just have to pay a grip to keep him in a Hawks uni.
On the upside, if he’s wants a max contract next year, he should be playing all-out this season!
PMC
September 29th, 2009
1:00 pm
Contract Year for Joe Johnson. I love the sound of that. I think this sets up well.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
1:01 pm
Ray, ILL-logical, big dave,
I agree with Ray about Harford needing more touches/attempts against certain teams. With the added depth of Collins and Joe Smith Woody can move Al to the 4 during portions of the game. Al is developing and is getting better with both his foot work and shooting range. Like Josh and Marvin he will improve as the years go on. He will be better this year and even better 2 years from now. Overall Al is the best we have and for the money an awesome bargain. To throw Al under the bus is a little premature.
vava74
September 29th, 2009
1:02 pm
Gee Mack,
I think you look at a BBall club as a cumulation of players and their respective stats and not as functional team. I disagree with that type of analysis.
I stressed in my post that Orlando’s system will have to change completely and that in my opinion, the sum of the parts do not make a whole.
But even if we go to a reductive analysis of talent, I immediately disagree on a few points:
Bibby is a clutch shooter. Nelson is not.
Both are very weak defenders and passing wise, they are more or less equivalent.
Nelson is more dynamic, but he needs the ball to be productive, something which is incompatible with Vince.
Bibby is the opposite, he facilitates even with limited ball possession time.
JJ is a much more complete player than Vince ever was, in particular, defensively JJ is far superior to Vince.
Vince has been much more athletic and much more spectacular and that is the reason for his 7 all star appearances.
JJ is a very good clutch performer whilst Vince is a major choker.
So, I take our back court any day against Orlando’s.
Furthermore, if we look at the bench, if Teague is 50% of what I expect him to be, I think our bench with Crawford absolutely kills Orlando’s back court bench, even if you consider Pietrus’ game (who I do not believe will perform consistently).
Anthony Johnson is a steady backup, but both he and J-Williams will struggle to keep up with either Teague or Crawford at the PG.
Up front: no contest on Howard, however, in crunch time, offensively he is not much more effective than Al, who can at least drain his FTs. Only in rebounding Howard where he proves to be more effective than Al in crunch time.
If Josh plays with a bit more brain, he will be far better than Bass (who I respect but not consider a game changer).
Marvin can be AS effective as Rashard. If not this year, next year he will be at his level. He is tall, strong and quick enough to play a complete game (inside and outside).
His numbers are already similar to Rashard’s who is already 30 years old and – again – was playing juiced and will be suspended.
Again, the bench: I rather have Mo than Barnes and Zaza+Collins are not far off Gortat (if they are at all).
True Hawks Fan
September 29th, 2009
1:05 pm
Sekou,
How soon we forget about Joe’s performance in the 4th game of the Celtics Series. He can take over and lead us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGeQWOHwHQ
I really like your material though. Good stuff!
vava74
September 29th, 2009
1:09 pm
And I forgot to mention Joe Smith!
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
1:09 pm
“JJ came here for selfess reason”
Did you mean selfless? or selfish? He came here because he wanted to be the star and make money.
And Joe has done nothing for us in the playoffs besides that one game. He is getting older and is so big that it wears out his legs
I MUS WRITE
September 29th, 2009
1:20 pm
Ray- I was just wondering why u had special powers is all. Now I know -You’re the king over there on the fan blogs…. Oooookaaaay- LMAO at Tribe.
Listen officer- When im at work I have to be professional so no I would’nt ask those questions. Morris is an okay as far as likeability-those comments are only about his game not him as a person.I have only seen him once anyway so…..
Ditto….. on the odom wedding -who the hell cares
I Mus agree with who ever said we wont win a championship with Al manning the C. I just dont see a 6′9 245 lb center with limited post moves taking us to the promise land.
I dont say shyt behind peoples back that i would’nt say to their face…Never been that way dont plan on starting now. in other words im not a bytch when the pressure is on and the shyt goes down.
ILL-logical
September 29th, 2009
1:20 pm
GeeMack- Like your take-had not considered that angle- but your theory holds as much water as any.The question then becomes w/not to trade him now or trade him later for the long coveted big.I say now because we can set the stage for the future. As far as his replacement,I believe Marvin in the long run and Crawford in the short term. Mr. Sund has cetainly covered his bases well.
KevinA- Am not, can not and will not throw Al under the bus. What does concern me is the way is being used by the current incumbant head coach(more on that later). As long as he is playing out of position,IMHO, the Hawks cannot win a championship. the 2004 Pistons comparisons are full of logical flaws; one of which is equating Al to Ben Wallace. Two entirely different type of players and frankly Al doesn’t have the muscle to play the role Ben played for that Piston team.
Now what effect Joe’s decision may have on the coaching situation remains to be seen but my money is on no Joe, no Woody.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
1:21 pm
JJ is a great player but I don’t see him getting “max dollars” any where. Before we negotiate with JJ we need to see what Crawford and Teague have to offer, not to mention whether Bibby plays even better this year or has a drop off.
Joe’s future may be intertwined with how the Hawks play and if we resign Woody. Another factor may be how attendance affects the pay roll. Will we be able to afford him? All I’ll’s would be solved by JJ and the Hawks having a great year.
@TL
September 29th, 2009
1:26 pm
JJ was a fake All-Star anyways!
JJ thank for nothing.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
1:26 pm
ILL-logical
Does that mean, ZaZa/Collins/Joe Smith should play C instead of Al and Al should share minutes with Josh?
Samuel
September 29th, 2009
1:28 pm
I believe I told yall a while back that JJ had “His Boy” Woody’s back. Woody made him an allstar so JJJ will pay him back by forcing the Hawks management’s hand.
Extend Woody and JJ re-signs. Simple as that.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
1:29 pm
Daniel, an auction league is where everyone is given $200 at the start of the draft, and you bid on the players you want. Its a lot more fun than the tradition snake draft. Because you still have a chance at the one player you covet the most.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
2:03 pm
Joe Johnson will NOT sign extension with the Hawks. JJ heads into the deep free agent pool of 2010.
per Sekou
The good thing about that is we will have the money to get another all-star, so he could move and thank him for helping us put the Hawks on the map. Maybe MW could be more like a Danny Granger.
Mario West
September 29th, 2009
2:06 pm
I don’t think JJ cares about Woody, the Hawks or about the fans. He is a selfish person that only cares about making his money.
JJ you stink in the playoffs!!!
Josh Smith > JJ
Mario West
September 29th, 2009
2:12 pm
Danny Granger is way better than having a fake All-Star(JJ)!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
2:12 pm
JJ for Melo! JJ for Melo! JJ for Melo!
@TL
September 29th, 2009
2:17 pm
I think Chris Bosh decided to do the same to the Raptors!
vava74
September 29th, 2009
2:23 pm
JJ’s not signing an extension is a bad omen for us.
All the good vibes for this year are gone, in my opinion.
celtic spy
September 29th, 2009
2:26 pm
Thats real low JJ.
BRAD
September 29th, 2009
2:32 pm
NONE OF THE “SUPER” STARS ARE SIGNING EXTENSIONS!! Lebron, D-Wade, Bosh, JJ, etc..are all going to be free agents to see what the market is. Lebron and Wade will no doubt get max contracts, but JJ could very well sign with the Hawks again.
Hawk n the Ham
September 29th, 2009
2:37 pm
I got to believe that JJ not signing an extension will be beneficial for the Hawks THIS season.
If JJ wants to play lights out and put up the best numbers of his career, that is all fine with me.
celtic spy
September 29th, 2009
2:41 pm
Am a Celtic fan but I feel bad for the people of the ATL. You guys have a selfish player that never played with heart and that never belived on the hawks. He knows Atlanta will never reach the NBA finals so he wants to play for a team that can. not cool JJ
I say trade him!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
2:43 pm
The problem is JJ needs to play less minutes with the ball in his hands. However, can we really trust that he will do that in a contract year?
bigdave
September 29th, 2009
2:46 pm
Big Ray, KevinA…
there is no present Hawk that i think should start over Al Horford. thats a given… my issue with Al isnt predicated on being “undersized”. honestly i feel Horford is not a PF (though he would fit in well in the western conf.) in today’s game he is a C. defensively i dont see him matching up with any of the PF’s in the east let alone our division. my gripe is simply with his offensive development/skill. in my opinion Za Za is the most polished low post big. Solo “had” the best shooting touch. sure he doesnt get the touches. however, we’re an iso team and he simply does not have the game to excel in our 1-on-1 system. he is a tough SOB ill give him that.. but he tends to put up soft, or off balance shots out of the iso sets. i just never liked the pick (maybe cause i knew the 2 combined would get an at the time All NBA Amare).. he was what we needed and has done well. however, i dont see him amounting to much on the offensive end unless he learns to consistently hit (i mean you better go out and put a hand up; a threat;his shot) that Zo jumper. i agreed with Ill-logic out of knowing this was a show me year for Al as well.. Acie was sent packing… sure enough Al has contributed 10x more than Acie ever did, however, i figured after year 1 he would’ve made strides in his offensive arsenal, yet he didnt. i know the numbers are par to above but to me he digressed on that end of the floor. relative to the somewhat potential i surprisingly saw in year 1. hopefully he has put in the individual work it takes to bring your game to the next level. im rooting for him no doubt, but we’ll see…
@TL
September 29th, 2009
2:53 pm
I agree with the celtic spy.
PMC
September 29th, 2009
3:03 pm
JJ’s expiring contract will be sexy to a few clubs…. and his contract year is good for this one.
...
September 29th, 2009
3:03 pm
I wonder where will JJ play?
I think Lebron will stay a cav so New York will try to get JJ.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
3:05 pm
Ok all the suckers who believed in this team and signed for lower than expected money (Bibby, Zaza & Marvin) – eat my socks. Now sacrifice your shots and give me the ball. I won’t do what Tim Dunkin did. The idiot wanted to surround himself with quality players and signed for slightly less than market value. Suckers.
- Vibe killer.
GeeMack
September 29th, 2009
3:08 pm
vava74
You are correct I am looking at the talent pool and the stages of guys careers on the team. To say Vince is a choker is far fetch. Is he Kobe LBJ or D-Wade: no, but he has always been a team player.
These guys are at the stage where they want to win. They have already made their individual marks.
no name
September 29th, 2009
3:08 pm
Can we trade JJ?
no name
September 29th, 2009
3:13 pm
Because if we can we should.
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
3:20 pm
big dave,
about this:
“i just never liked the pick (maybe cause i knew the 2 combined would get an at the time All NBA Amare).. ”
Wasn’t that rumor TOTALLY debunked by Sekou AND Hawks management?
So how did you KNOW that? Are you on Steve Kerr’s speed dial or something?
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
3:22 pm
GeeMack, lol it’s all good. I figured thats what was going on…
As far as JJ is concerned all I have to say is
0_o !!!!
Trade him to Memphis for Rudy Gay…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
3:25 pm
‘Nique is offically on Twitter now. FOLLOW HIM!!!
http://twitter.com/DWilkins21
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
3:26 pm
Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said he will not sign a contract extension with the Hawks and will play out the final year of his contract this season.
Johnson will be an unrestricted free agent next summer.
The Hawks extended a four-year, $60-plus million contract offer to Johnson this summer. But Johnson said he decided not to sign the extension after mulling it over during the offseason.
By not signing Johnson will enter a deep free agent crop next summer headlined by reigning MVP LeBron James as well as fellow All-Stars Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.
“My sole focus right now is on this team and what we’re trying to accomplish this season,” Johnson said. “I have some goals set for this season for my team and I have some individual goals set for myself as well. I really feel like this team is ready to take that step to the next level. I also feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league, I feel like I’m right there, so it’s going to be an exciting year.”
Johnson is in the fifth and final year of a $70 million deal he signed with Phoenix before being traded to the Hawks in a sign-and-trade deal in August 2005.
bigdave
September 29th, 2009
3:27 pm
Saut…
fact or fiction… at the time the rumor itself made me hate the pick…
but no… actually Colangelo phoned me on it…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
3:28 pm
Micah:
We consider JJ a SG, but we’ll take it RT @jeskeets: Ball Don’t Lie / The top 10 small forwards of the last decade http://bit.ly/1siE2G
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
3:31 pm
we want Rudy!!!! RIGHT GUYS???….0_o
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
Ariose, I want Melo. lol
no name
September 29th, 2009
3:41 pm
I would love for Rip Hamilton to replace JJ I hear he has problems with his new teamate Ben Gordon.
Mario West
September 29th, 2009
3:46 pm
People want Melo, Rudy and others want Rip.
Just wonderin'...
September 29th, 2009
3:49 pm
It’s cool and all that JJ wants to look out for JJ. That’s his biz. But should he be the captain if he puts his own self interests in front of the team’s?
Just wonderin’…
Mario West
September 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
Does anybody want me to replace JJ?
Melvin
September 29th, 2009
3:57 pm
Ariose,
I wouldn’t put Peja ahead of Joe but I’m okay with the rest of that list…
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
3:58 pm
How is it selfish to want to wait until the economy is not in the crapper to sign a contract? I guess Duncan (in 2000), Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Nash, and virutally every other All-Star in the league from the past decade were all selfish too, since they all waited until their contract was up to sign an extension. That’s right, even Duncan waited until his contract expired to re-negotiate. That’s not selfish. It’s called not being an idiot.
Just wonderin'...
September 29th, 2009
4:01 pm
Just sounds to me like he wants to be somewhere else. I could be wrong.
Just wonderin’…
...
September 29th, 2009
4:09 pm
Rudy, Melo or Rip
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
4:14 pm
Niremetal, that doesn’t make him selfish. But 4 of the names you mentioned have lead their teams to the finals.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
4:16 pm
Nire, you don’t like Rudy?
Melvin, IDK Peja has played at a highleve for a long time(when he’s healthy)
Ramon, Melo is a beast, no doubt.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Ramon,
So only superstars who lead their teams to the Finals have the right to maximize their leverage in a contract? All the other 497 NBA free agents (including the vast majority of the league’s All-Stars) should accept the best offer their current team is willing to give them a full year before they hit the market? Uh…ok.
5>2
September 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Just wonderin
I agree with everything you are saying.
JJ is selfish.
it funny how many people want to trade him.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
(and in a bad economy following a year in which NBA revenues were at an all-time low and max salaries were lowered as a result)
Sekou Smith
September 29th, 2009
4:18 pm
The reaction here about JJ not signing this extension is funny. He’s doing what the Hawks have done to a ton of guys the last few years and playing out his deal. Why is his decision to “play it out” any different than what the Hawks did to guys like Childress, Josh Smith and Marvin (and Bibby and Zaza and on and on)?
It’s a wise business move on his part, because the more big time free agents on the market next summer the better chance that there will be movement of said big timers. The side benefit for the Hawks is that you get a highly motivated All-Star in a contract year.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
4:18 pm
I’ll point out that for all my gripes about Josh, I never once called him “selfish” for holding out for the best deal he could get. Same with Chill.
5>2
September 29th, 2009
4:21 pm
niremetal:
Yeah, JJ is selfish.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
4:23 pm
Thank you, Sekou…amazing that some people’s first instinct is to call a man “selfish” for deciding not to leave what could turn out to be $40M-$50M on the table…
5>2
September 29th, 2009
4:26 pm
niremetal:
But Josh plays with heart, something that JJ does not do. It seems like all JJ cares about is making money.
Mike
September 29th, 2009
4:27 pm
John Hollinger of ESPN has the Hawks going 44-38 this season. How is this guy considered an NBA insider??? You improve your bench with Crawford, Teague and Smith…re-sign all your FA and your starting frontcourt are all only 23 years old and are only getting better and somehow this guy thinks we will win 3 LESS games then last season. That is a prime example of the lack of respect we get from so-called experts around the league.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
4:29 pm
Niremetal, I’m not saying what JJ is doing is wrong. I’m saying it still wouldn’t be bad to see what you can get for him before its too late. None of us were in those rooms so we don’t know what the atmosphere is like. But if it was one that lead you to believe that he may not resign then you have to do research. I think JJ is smart for doing this business wise. At the end of the day this is all a business. I just know for the Hawks as an organization if JJ leaves, they will not be able to sign a free agent who brings close to what he brings for the price they’ll lose him for. So if you think its more than a 65% chance you’ll lose him, then see what you can get. Losing JJ next year with no replacement, will also make it hard to bring a top notch coach here.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
4:38 pm
Niremetal you have to remember JJ was BK and Woody’s guy. And I love JJ as a player, and want to see him for a good while. But we don’t know if JJ is Sund’s guy, and the next coach’s guy. That is the question.
...
September 29th, 2009
4:39 pm
That NBA insider need to do a better job or get fire because that shows no respect toward my hawks.
bigdave
September 29th, 2009
4:44 pm
agreed Sekou… Nire…
it would’ve been foolish to have done anything else. nothing he said or not signing this contract doesnt concede he is no longer interested in being a Hawk. my interpretations was that he wants to legitimize himself as an elite player this year and take the team to the next level. statement season for Joe.
signing early extension and not playing out your contract year… where they do that at?
bigdave
September 29th, 2009
4:46 pm
why would we want to entertain a trade offer?
i doubt it, but in the event Joe walks at the end of the year.. we’ll have bread to spend… talking about killing chemistry.. trade rumors does that, not a player wanting to play out a current contract…
Mike
September 29th, 2009
4:47 pm
Here is the last part of Hollingers preview of the Hawks
“The Hawks bring back the same team that won 47 games a year ago, with a few upgrades: Teague offers a vast improvement over the departed Law as a fourth guard, and Joe Smith provides a fourth big man that simply didn’t exist a year ago.
On paper, all that should make the Hawks a better team than a year ago, but not so fast. Crawford is a better player than Murray if you’re comparing careers, but he’ll be hard-pressed to match the season Murray put together a year ago. Similarly, Pachulia and Bibby may also struggle to match their solid 2008-09 campaigns.
And the Hawks aren’t as youthful as they once were. While they still own three 23-year-olds in the frontcourt, the four veteran backcourt players are 31, 30, 29 and 28; additionally, Smith is 34 and Pachulia’s listed age of 25 is only believable if you use a 500-day calendar.
Between the limited scope for improvement and the lack of star power, it seems the Hawks shouldn’t be much worse than a year ago … but neither should they be any better. It’s quite possible they’ll finish this season in the exact same position as last season — at the top of the East’s pretender heap, but miles away from the ruling Cleveland-Boston-Orlando trinity.
Prediction: 44-38, 2nd in Southeast Division, 4th in Eastern Conferencehere
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
4:49 pm
This year in the east I don’t think 44 wins even gets you the 6th seed. The East will be better.
GeeMack
September 29th, 2009
4:50 pm
Sekou
Also JJ is entering the prime of his career, and he sees an oppurtunity to win a championship and make his money.
ILL-logical
September 29th, 2009
4:57 pm
“The side benefit for the Hawks is that you get a highly motivated All-Star in a contract year.”
Yeah but highly motivated for what-his check or the team’s goals? I mean after that shot doesn’t go in after he could have passed it to someone who was open ,do you begin to wonder? Or if an injury that he might have been played through in days gone by results in a stretch on IR.. (?) There are a lot of ways to react to this but not all of them spell way to go Joe!
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
5:01 pm
Ok here’s a question. JJ wants to win a championship. Say Smooth takes the necessary step to become an all star. Then next off season do you resign Horford for 10 mil plus. Or do you use that to try and lure one of the 2nd tier free agents. Truthfully, I believe Teague and Smooth will both be all stars for years to come. Teague reminds me of Arenas, but with more hops.
hawkspride
September 29th, 2009
5:05 pm
vava74 you are aboslutely wrong nelson is a better point guard than any point guard on this team not a clutch shooter the dude shot better than 50 percent from the field and shot clutch the whole season
and i do agree jj is better than vince but cince is there second best player and jj is are best player so lets compare jj to howard end of discussion howard dominates that…. and so what if howard has a limitted offensive game they have enough weapons not to need him and its kind of scary he is still raw and averages more than any hawk player except jj plus what if his offensive game is not developed do you think josh smith is kobe No he cannot shoot and like howard uses his athletic body to score williams is no lewis and you are ASSUMING that teague and williams are gonna be hall of famers so im ASSUMING the bucks are gonna win 70 games
and you are abosolutely nuts if you think the hawks bench is better than the magics come on barnes is better than mo lets be honest he’s a better shooter equal defender and longer
collins is a scrub so lets not make him look like a solid defender and joe smith is not better than a young shooting anderson the only think we have better than the magic is a back up point guard thats it lets be fureal guys we are acting like we are the deepest, best team in the league and we are not!!! 4th in the east is were we sit at….
newkid
September 29th, 2009
5:07 pm
Joe’s decision to play it out ought to be viewed by Sund as an opportunity to make a run at LBJ or DWade next year. Both of them will have their pick of the litter next year, so why Atlanta? Both New York and New Jersey – the other likely destinations – will have more than enough room under the cap to sign LBJ (or Wade) and another star (maybe not another MEGA star), but neither Knicks or the Nets are likely nearly as close as the Hawks to contending for the O’Brien trophy for the next 3-5 years. Cleveland will have to add a major piece or two to continue to contend for the trophy as Shaq and Z age even more after the current season. Circumstances not much different with Miami. Of all the teams in the East, the Hawks appear in the best position – with a Lebron or DWade – to embark on a multi-year run at the NBA finals. Even though Lebron would likely sacrifice some of the off-the-court money that could be commanded in the NY metropolitan area (so might Wade), he may just be more interested in continuing to establish his brand by winning multiple championships with a team that’s on the brink (even without JJ).
With regard to salary, in-house young & experienced talent, and ‘readiness for the next level’, Sund’s in a prime position to pitch the Hawks as perhaps the best location in the East (and perhaps in the entire league) for a MEGA star whose interest is competing for the big prize in each of the next five years. JJ deciding not to sign gives Sund nine months to compose his summer 2010 grocery list, and recently he has given strong indications that he’s not a bad shopper. I think someone said above that this JJ development should be viewed as an opportunity. Couldn’t agree more; perhaps a MAJOR opportunity.
hawkspride
September 29th, 2009
5:12 pm
Elebron and wade are not coming to atlanta sorry wish they would but there not…..
hawkspride
September 29th, 2009
5:14 pm
vava74 you are aboslutely wrong nelson is a better point guard than any point guard on this team not a clutch shooter the dude shot better than 50 percent from the field and shot clutch the whole season
and i do agree jj is better than vince but cince is there second best player and jj is are best player so lets compare jj to howard end of discussion howard dominates that…. and so what if howard has a limitted offensive game they have enough weapons not to need him and its kind of scary he is still raw and averages more than any hawk player except jj plus what if his offensive game is not developed do you think josh smith is kobe No he cannot shoot and like howard uses his athletic body to score williams is no lewis and you are ASSUMING that teague and williams are gonna be hall of famers so im ASSUMING the bucks are gonna win 70 games
and you are abosolutely nuts if you think the hawks bench is better than the magics come on barnes is better than mo lets be honest he’s a better shooter equal defender and longer
collins is a scrub so lets not make him look like a solid defender and joe smith is not better than a young shooting anderson the only think we have better than the magic is a back up point guard thats it lets be fureal guys we are acting like we are the deepest, best team in the league and we are not!!! 4th in the east is were we sit at….
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
5:38 pm
I posted this on the Fan Blog and Ray encouraged me to share it here. For a little background, both Ando and doc referenced pop songs in their first posts to the fan blog.
Ando’s and doc’s musical quotations sent me on a long trip that I’ll now pass on to you all. I’ve been reading Mark Lewisohn’s excellent book The Complete Beatles Chronicle and I started wondering which Beatles song I would dedicate to my favorite players and team. So, with that in mind, here you go:
For distributors Mike Bibby and Jeff Teague: From Me To You
For Josh Smith and Mike Woodson: We Can Work It Out
For Mike Woodson: All Together Now
For Josh Smith: Flying
For Mario West and his unrelenting defense: Eight Days A Week
For Al Horford: Carry That Weight
For Marvin Williams: Getting Better
For the much traveled Jamal Crawford: Here, There, and Everywhere
For Flip Murray: Hello, Goodbye
For 34 year old Joe Smith: Yesterday (yes, that was cold)
For no extension Joe Johnson: Don’t Let Me Down
For 08-09 Joe Johnson: I’m So Tired
For Josh Childress: Love Me Do (or should it be Love Me Fro)
For Yaroslav Korolev: Back In The USSR
For Sekou Smith: Paperback Writer
For Rick Sund: Fixing A Hole
For Billy Knight: I Should Have Known Better
For HB Ando: Get Back (to where you once belonged)
For Big Ray: Happiness Is A Warm Gun
For Sautee: Fool On The Hill
For doc: The Inner Light, OR, Doctor Robert
For Manny T and Niremetal: Money (That’s What I Want)
For truth-serum: All You Need Is Love
For The 09-10 Hawks: With A Little Help From My Friends
For The BASG: Baby, You’re A Rich Man
For our 7 year rebuilding project: The Long And Winding Road
For our Championship aspirations: Let It Be
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
5:38 pm
Hawkspride, isn’t this entire blog just about based on assumptions? Could one not say you’re assuming Nelson will be healthy this year? Or could one not say you’re assuming Vince will get along with his new teammates? Majority of the characteristics of a fan centers around hope and faith. The Knicks fan don’t come to get game based on the knowledge that their team suck. But they hope that they get better thats why they support them. Personally, I think the Hawks lineup is better than the Magics. That’s just me. And that’s me assuming.
WHAT?
September 29th, 2009
5:42 pm
Bad move sign Joe now!
DunwoodyHeel
September 29th, 2009
5:43 pm
Two thoughts: 1) Why does everyone assume the economy will be better in a year? It won’t. The wise men of Wall Street know that the stock market go way ahead of itself and will head back down, that the economy will tread water when the government stops pumping in money. We’re treading water for the next 3 years, folks, and teams aren’t going to be doling out any bigger contracts then than they are now.
Johnson wants to play out his deal to get “max money”? What’s max money? By the time Stern gets through lowering the salary cap, a 4 yr/$60 mil deal will be “max money.” (Wonder why he’s playing hardball with refs and pushing clubs to lower assistant salaries? because he knows he’s getting ready to extract givebacks from the players, and he wants them to know everybody else is doing the same.)
If Joe isn’t signing a $60 million deal, it’s because he either wants:
a) the Hawks to extend Woody.
b) to see if this team can crack into the elite
c) to leave and join a team that is in the elite
Keith
September 29th, 2009
5:44 pm
TYPICAL GREEDY THUG! PRETTY FUNNY HOW WHEN THERE ARE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS OR IF THERE IS A “HOLD OUT” THEY ARE BLACK 95% OF THE TIME.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
5:48 pm
Keith I guess that explains how Steve Nash and David Lee did the same thing. They must be .04% black. And as far as the NFL, most of the skill positions are the higher paid players in the league. And most of the skill players are black. That may would explain why it seems that way. But remember Roger Clemens and Favre did the same thing as well.
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
5:49 pm
WHAT they did try 2 sign joe he turn down 4 year 64million dollar during summer, so what joe is thinking about i dont no bad move on his behalve.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
5:58 pm
Photo gallery from the first day of camp: http://bit.ly/4jNImB
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
6:04 pm
Is joe a top 10 player? i say no
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
bigdave
September 29th, 2009
6:10 pm
so i guess the “Greedy thugs” are the GM’s and owners when they low ball players and tell them to test their market value…
terrell barron
September 29th, 2009
6:11 pm
What’s up with JJ not wanting to sign an extension with the fellas? I thought he wanted to be a Hawk for life. Probably wont get much more when he hits the market. Not in this economy. I dont understand the decision. I thought Bibby was his boy, and he’s here for 2 more years. Was it the Crawford signing? Did it piss him off? Was it Flip? Was that his boy? Or is it because he doesn’t know if his ole pal Woodrow will still be here after 2009? Talk to me fellas. Am I overreacting?
terrell barron
September 29th, 2009
6:14 pm
Hawk n the ham, but that means he might hog the ball, and slow down the development of the younguns.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
6:15 pm
“Why is his decision to “play it out” any different than what the Hawks did to guys like Childress, Josh Smith and Marvin (and Bibby and Zaza and on and on)?”
BECAUSE HES NOT GOING TO BE A RFA AND HES BETTER THAN THOSE PLAYERS. DUH
...
September 29th, 2009
6:16 pm
JJ wants to win and knows the hawks will never make it the NBA finals so he wants to go to a team that can, plus he wants more money.
He is thinking about JJ not the team.
Not cool JJ.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
6:16 pm
Of course JJ will hog the ball this year.
He always hogs it and it’s a contract yr.
JJ > Bibby and ZaZa (UFA’s) for all the idiots trying to question my last post
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
A Tribe Called Quest
September 29th, 2009
6:16 pm
Of course JJ will hog the ball this year.
He always hogs it and it’s a contract yr.
JJ > Bibby and ZaZa (UFA’s) for all the idiots trying to question my last post
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
Pnott Hawk
September 29th, 2009
6:17 pm
I say you let JJ ride out, and push hard for D Wade! The Hawks beat his heat last year, we have a much better supporting cast than them, and I dont see him going to one of the top three (Bos, LAL, CLE, Orl) because they have their “superstars”. Atlanta is a hot city and a up and coming NBA team, GIVE ME DWADE over I will vanish during the playoffs JJ!!!!
...
September 29th, 2009
6:25 pm
JJ is not a top 10 player.
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. kobe
4. kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dwight
7. Carmelo Anthony
8. Chris Bosh
9. Brandon Roy
10. Danny Granger
Pnott Hawk
September 29th, 2009
6:26 pm
If JJ thinks the “market” will bear him getting 20mill a year, he needs to put the crack laced blunt down!!! I would be hard pressed to see anyone paying him that type of scratch. If its about going to a contender, it proves the “he has no heart” theory because he should be trying to make the Hawks a contender and put his stamp on this franchise. But because he is a Robin and not a Batman, he probably feels more comfortable playing along side a legit superstar that way he wont have all the focus on him. Go Hawks, get Dwade or Amarie Stoudemire in here, REAL SUPERSTAR TAKE OVER A GAME type players!!!!
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
6:28 pm
If JJ leaves and Hawks waive Chillz, we are $10 mil under the salary cap if the cap doesn’t change.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9154
If we give back Crawford his option to become free agent (he waived it to come to Atl), and he exercises it, we go $21 mil under the salary cap. Could we do that?
If Crawford has a good year he might want to use it. On the other hand if he has a good year why would we give him that right back? If we had a much inferior Flip instead of Crawford, we would have $21 mil salary cap room next summer. I guess with JJ and Crawford, we are going for all the marbles this year. Why hold back. Sign stackhouse. He will at least cut down on JJ’s minutes and stats. saves future $$$$.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
6:31 pm
Please stop the hate….
...
September 29th, 2009
6:31 pm
Yeah!!!
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
6:34 pm
All of this logic sounds fantastic until you consider that it’s very, very hard to find an All-Star or even almost-All-Star player other than a rookie coming up on their RFA who doesn’t play out their contract these days. I actually can’t think of a single one off the top of my head from the past 6 years except Duncan two summers ago (and as I mentioned above, even Duncan waited until his rookie contract was up back in 2000).
So I guess it’s ok if everyone else does it – either because they’re better than JJ or because JJ’s better than them. But it’s not ok for JJ to do it. Ok…
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
6:41 pm
jerrywest,
No. The option was for 2 years, not one-at-a-time. And a team can’t “unexercise” an option that the player already chose to exercise – the Player’s Union would go apesh!t if a team could do that. Jamal exercised his option for the last two years of his contract. We’re locked into Jamal through 2011. No way around that.
The only way we’re a player in the FA market next summer (except to re-sign JJ) is if we trade someone else in exchange for an expiring deal before this year’s trade deadline or we somehow convince Cle/Mia/Tor to do a sign-and-trade with us (unlikely, because both the player and the team would have to agree to it).
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
6:41 pm
What have joe done for the hawks in the playoffs? he’s a no show.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
...
September 29th, 2009
6:41 pm
Would it be possible to get rip Hamilton to replace JJ?
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
6:42 pm
This team was is built around JJ. He will never find a better situation where he is the focal point. Even if he joins LeBron in NY, his other teammates will suck for a long time.
...
September 29th, 2009
6:47 pm
darell starks:
JJ plays with no heart in the playoffs. Thats why he can’t score.
So lets get Rip Hamilton!!!
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
6:49 pm
…,NO!!
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
6:51 pm
First off, Pknott needs to put down the crack pipe if he doesn’t think that all the teams that strike out on Wade and LeBron aren’t going to be throwing giant wads of money at JJ
jerrywest,
Why are you assuming he doesn’t want to stay here? Again, he is doing what EVERY All-Star free agent has done in recent years.
Why is the obvious so hard to see?? The reality is that there’s no need for the Hawks to mortgage the farm on JJ before they see that he can lead this team to the Promised Land, and no need for JJ to sign an extension that almost certainly is less than he will be able to get next summer.
JJ wants to stay, and the Hawks want JJ to stay. But JJ (correctly) thinks that if he waits until next summer, he’ll almost certainly be able to get the Hawks to re-sign him for more than they’re offering now. And the Hawks correctly are reluctant to give him the kind of money JJ will be asking for next summer because they know they have a good chance of re-signing JJ even if they let him play the year out.
Capitalism at work. Nothing more, nothing less.
mario west
September 29th, 2009
6:55 pm
Braves!!!
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
6:55 pm
Yes your right when players turn down that kind of money you wonder do they really want to be here, and it kind of hurt the spirit of the team specially if your trying 2 build something.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
6:56 pm
And before you go back to “well, JJ should settle for less money if he wants the Hawks to win,” I again ask you to point me to an All-Star caliber free agent other than Tim Duncan who has done that in the past decade. Nash? Nope, he played out his contract in Phoenix. Kobe? Nope, played until his option year came in LA. Lesser-caliber but very good guys like Manu? Nope. Again, they all played out their contracts. That’s what players do.
If JJ’s selfish, then they’re all selfish. And if they’re all selfish, then what’s the sense in singling out JJ?
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
6:57 pm
Hawks Offical Website now has Training Camp Central:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/2009_training_camp_central.html
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
6:58 pm
Tweeet From Hawks PR Man Arthur Triche:
“Hawks participating in annual media training seminar. In addition 2 reminding them of their obligations, informing them about social media.”
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
7:01 pm
We can’t blame the hawks for this one that was a fare enough contract for a player who haven’t played well in the playoffs at all.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
JJ the selfish
September 29th, 2009
7:04 pm
niremetal seems like you are the only one who likes JJ’s decision.
So who do you think should replace JJ when he leaves the ATL for more money?
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:07 pm
And lastly…
I just thank heaven that the people on the inside of this deal are more aware of all this stuff than the average fan blogger. JJ knows that GMs look at a hell of a lot more than his stats when deciding how much to pay him. They know that a GM is more likely to sign a guy who scores 18ppg on a 50-win team than one who scores 22ppg on a 35-win team (just ask…uh…JJ 4 years ago). The idea that a player will be a ballhog in his contract year flies in the face of what we’ve seen from players like Manu, Nash, Bibby (circa 2002), and other scorer-distributors in recent NBA history. They realize that their value as players stems more from their ability to help their team win than it is from the number of points they score.
But hey. It wouldn’t be Sekou’s blog if there weren’t people calling JJ a selfish ballhog who only looks out for himself (the fact that all of him teammates keep saying the exact opposite notwithstanding). Guess I just shouldn’t let it get to me…
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
7:07 pm
Hawks Open 2009 Training Camp
Tuesday, September 29, 2009
By Micah Hart
Monday it was all smiles and interviews – Tuesday it was down to business.
The Hawks hit the practice court at Philips Arena around 9:30 am for their first official day of camp, going pretty much non-stop until about 1:00 pm.
The first day is usually pretty light on actual game play, and this year was no different. There were a lot of drills, mostly working on conditioning. After practice Mike Woodson complimented the players to the media on arriving at camp in excellent physical condition, but of course he wasn’t telling them that during the action. At one point he exclaimed, “You guys want to be a running team this season, you’re going to have to be in much better shape than you are right now!”
Not a whole lot to report as far as performance goes, but I’ll give you a couple bullets:
# It was only one play, but I liked the jumper Al Horford hit from behind the top of the key in one 4-on-4 drill. It was a confident, quick release, and it dropped straight through the net. I asked Al yesterday if there was any particular part of his game he worked on over the summer, and he mentioned that he spent a lot of time on his mid-range game. So based on that one shot, I’ll call his work a total success!
# Jeff Teague seemed at ease amongst his new teammates, and showed off his quickness and athleticism in several drills. I am very excited to see how he performs when scrimmaging gets underway, presumably tomorrow.
# I probably say this all the time, but I continue to be in awe of the shooting prowess of NBA players. After the work was over for the day, several guys stayed on the court to get more shooting in. One game they were playing required each player to make 4-5 from five spots around the three-point line. Guys like Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford, Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, and Juan Dixon were draining shot after shot, all while I sat there trying to figure out if I would die from starvation before I even made it to the top of the key.
JJ the selfish
September 29th, 2009
7:07 pm
JJ the selfish!
Tony
September 29th, 2009
7:09 pm
I do not give a crap if Joe leaves. D-wade c’mon down. Joe is NOT A SUPERSTAR. When we are down he can’t carry us to victory. Besides Josh Smith is OUR BEST player. Oh yeah, don’t hate. Can anyone answer this, why would you pay a player (Joe) higher than the guy who IS the best player on your team (Smith) and can control the game on both ends? Leave Joe I Do NOT CARE.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
7:13 pm
Reading Sekou updated article, I’m really not worrying about JJ not signing his contract.
“Joe’s been such a big part of the growth and movement we’ve made as a franchise, so I wouldn’t expect anything but his best as always,” Woodson said. “He’s not going to let up, I promise you that. We talked about it at our [team dinner Monday]. This team means a lot to him, and we’ve got some goals that we’ve set that we all want to accomplish. There’s a time and a place for the business that he’ll have to deal with. And that’s later. But that’s not anyone’s concern but his. And it should stay that way.”
...
September 29th, 2009
7:13 pm
Hope the braves can get to the playoffs!
The Truth
September 29th, 2009
7:18 pm
Joe Johnson decision to opt out of ATL has removed all doubt as to where his motivations are these days. After I read the article several times, I didn’t see any signs of a door opening between JJ and the Hawks. He was rather straightforward in my opinion. He thought about it, reached a conclusion, and that was it. He went on to say that (in so many words) that he will be using the Hawks to audition for his next team.
Some blogs ago I was searching for answers to things that could possibly be driving JJ as I was inspired from watching the MJ Hall-a-fame speech. I know MJ is a tough act to follow but he does give us some frame of reference which provides us with insight. For MJ, it was a motivation to prove all his critics wrong, to be among the best of the best and to bring championship titles to a doormat team in the NBA. In his quest to be the best, he passed up all kinds of lucrative basketball contracts. He did all those things and more. By comparison, JJ doesn’t really seem interested in building to win a title as evidence by his past actions. He left a title contending Phoenix for a doormat Atlanta to be the “Man”; to be that big fish in the little pond and made 70M in the process. Despite the improvement of the Hawks since his arrival, he doesn’t seem impressed by it all as he works his next contract. Now he wants to leave the Hawks and downgrade again to another doormat team such as NY or NJ to become an even richer and a bigger “man” in a smaller pond. If any of this is just partially true, it would sound like a player with different priorities then winning a championship. Since his new quest is to prove that he is an elite player, I’m just wondering how that might affect the Hawks team chemistry. When he gets that pass from Biddy, will he be thinking about the win or padding his stats? Even if he is sincere about the team goals, what will be the perception of his teammates about him as a leader? He can’t be compared with Josh, Bibby, or Marvin in their contract year because they weren’t offered extensions. Their drama all happened in the summer and ended before training camp. JJ is the only player to publicly state that he wants out during training camp. That sounds like a motivational killer to me to an emerging team that is looking to do special things this year.
So while JJ thinks about his next team and contract deal when he is in the air shooting his jump shot, at least we now know what’s on his mind and what is motivating him.
...
September 29th, 2009
7:24 pm
Forget JJ, Wade will take us to victory. plus remember 3>2
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:24 pm
The Truth,
Really, you got that from this?
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/johnsons-focus-locked-on-150073.html
“Like every other man in that locker room, I’m all in for my team,” Johnson said. “I don’t have any doubts that we’re set for a big year, and that’s all I care about. We’ve all worked hard to get to this point, and we’re trying to get over that hump this season.”
“I think with the young nucleus we have with Josh [Smith], Al [Horford] and Marvin and Mike running the show, the sky is the limit for us,” Johnson said. “Each year we’ve gotten better. And I look forward to those guys continuing to improve and our team making more strides as time goes on.”
Yeah, you’re right. That sounds like a guy with one foot out the door.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:25 pm
Josh was offered an extension, 5yrs 45mill….
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:28 pm
Crawford ready to fill role as Hawks’ scorer off bench:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/09/29/hawks.camp.ap/
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:29 pm
MacTone already posted this. Oops lol….
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
7:30 pm
New drill for Zaza.
100 dunks in 5 minutes. If he misses one, he starts from 0.
rob
September 29th, 2009
7:30 pm
Seems like many people hate Joe Johnson.
JJ I think you lost some fans.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
7:33 pm
I was upset at first, but I don’t think that we should trade him. Let things play itself out. Unlike Phoenix he was the sixth man, but here he knows that this is his team. JJ is not going anywhere unless he gets a offer that you can’t refuse.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:36 pm
Whoo!!! I Found it!!!!Hah!!!!
http://www.nba.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0907/summerdeals09/content.21.html
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:37 pm
Sekou, please talk some sense into these folks who think JJ has already booked his ticket outta here
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:39 pm
Ariose,
Is it just me, or does he looks pretty ugly in that uni?
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
7:43 pm
Nire, It’s not you lol…..He’ll look better in the Road unis I bet. Conversely, Smoove looks extra Skinny in the Road unis…
JJ, is THE MAN here. He’s not going ANYWHHERE lol….he’s just worth more than 4yrs & 64mill…4yrs???? Sreiously? Nice try Rick lol…
rob
September 29th, 2009
7:47 pm
Go Hawks!
MyView
September 29th, 2009
8:05 pm
What’s crazy is people talk about the Hawks like they are ranking them. What these national media types have to say means squat. They were wrong about the Hawks last year, they were wrong about the Hawks in ‘07, and when we reach the ECF or beyond, they will be wrong again. LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Sautee
September 29th, 2009
8:12 pm
Anybody else find irony in this statement of Woodson’s?
“There’s a time and a place for the business that he’ll have to deal with. And that’s later. But that’s not anyone’s concern but his. And it should stay that way.”
Odd how Woody’s OWN business situation was hardly “not anyone’s concern” but HIM. And obviously DIDN’T “stay that way”.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
8:29 pm
Great catch Sautee.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
8:33 pm
Should The Hawks Consider Trading Joe Johnson?
http://hawks.realgm.com/articles/593/20090929/should_the_hawks_consider_trading_joe_johnson/
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
8:35 pm
Yeah, sounds right Ariose. He kinda looks like a Smurf, except not blue…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:39 pm
Hawks Getting a third Jersey!!!!
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/29/1061212/hawks-getting-a-third-jersey
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:41 pm
I bet there gonna be red
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:41 pm
Or the old retro ones we wore with the old uni’s I like that one too…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:43 pm
Nire, LOl!!
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
8:45 pm
langwhitaker RT @YahooSportsNBA Delonte West missed his second straight practice Tuesday night. Associate says he’s in his Cleve apartment.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
8:46 pm
JJ is still the most important man on the team and all the talk of waiting on an extension is nuts. JJ deserves to do what ever he wants to do. I cannot predict the future but I see JJ going nowhere. This team is set up to be very competitive for years to come, why would he want to leave the team that he helped build.
If JJ has a hole in his game it would be his preference to the half court game but then again that may be because of his minutes and the fact Bibby played to many minutes.
With the addition of Crawford and Teague Woody can run shorter rotations to keep these guys fresh. If Josh and Marvin elevate their games on offense (high expectations) this will allow the scoring pressure to be more “balanced”. Look for the Hawks to play more up tempo.
A fresher JJ may score the same amount of points but with fewer attempts, increasing his impact on the game, expect his shooting percentage/assist totals to go up. Most of his “fresher” impact will be pushing the ball on the break, driving the ball more and utilizing the floater shot, (one of the best in the league).
This blog rotates between players, trashing them one at a time. Sometimes I think the complainers must not of watched the Hawks 4 years ago. Not only has our team become a play off team, but has improved every year. Sund had a masterful off season increasing already high expectations. MR Basketball deserves a little respect and will still be the Alfa dog in Phillips.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
8:46 pm
Jamal+JJ+Marv+Al+Collier
I just realized that for the first time in a long time we have a lineup that can go toe to toe against any big team. The big problem is Jamal and Jason do not rebound. Marv and Horford have to crush the board.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
8:56 pm
NJ scares me. They got all star level quick PG & big C locked up for many years for very cheap price. They also have Lee for peanuts. Couple of good rookies this year and next. Chinese audience and marketing opportunities with Yi. If they sign couple of big free agents, all the veteran minimum players will flock to fill up their roster. I see dynasty in Brooklyn.
On top of that, now they got the Russian billionaire with unlimited money.
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
8:57 pm
Jerry west i say yeah trade him if you can, lets face it this is business and if he wants 2 leave thats his decision but what about us as fans who support this team and pays there hard earn money 2 go to the games, at the end of the day we want championship not mediocre, so if owner ship see a perfect opportunity 2 make the hawks better i say yeah.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:05 pm
There is no way we can trade JJ and get better. He is the heart and soul of this team. Hawks will be a glove that was tailor made for this missing hand. None of those semi-all-star level skinny shooting guards can fill his shoes defensively.
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
9:09 pm
JERRY WEST last year philly wanted joe bad and the talk was samuel dalembert,thaddeus young for joe and i said hell no, but joe for andre igoudala i will make that trade today straight up.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
9:13 pm
JERRY WEST THINK ABOUT THIS TEAM
STARTE BIBBY, IGOUDALA, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH TEAGUE, JAMAL, MOE, JOE SMITH, ZAZA.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:13 pm
Its time to understand that the Celtics model may be the best model. At the end of this year, those 3 all stars will have 3 years together. If Joe leaves, we will not recover for a long time. This year might be our best shot. We might be better off trading for Amare and go for the gold.
The Truth
September 29th, 2009
9:14 pm
niremetal
No I got that from this article. Your link is a different article written by Sekou then the one I read.
This article by Sekou was point blank reasoning with no obvious possibility of returning to the Hawks. With your linked article, Sekou is translating Joe Johnson same statements to mean more then what he actually said. As much as I am a fan of Joe, after reading this article by Sekou, I had no other conclusion to reach. All JJ needed to say was something similar to D Wade and Lebron statements: “I’m keeping my options open but it doesn’t mean for sure I’m not going to return” (something like that). JJ statement in this link was pretty direct. Of course he will be upbeat about the team and upcoming season, in those statements you listed, but those weren’t the words I was looking for. I was looking for rationale, justification and some small hopeful statement that the Hawks was also a possibility. I didn’t see it. What I did pickup on was this statement:
“I also feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league, I feel like I’m right there, so it’s going to be an exciting year.”
That is why I went a little sarcastic and said he was auditioning for his next contract. Two people looking at the same pictures, one notices the black objects while the other notices the brown objects. That is what I saw.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:14 pm
Iggy can’t shoot and is overpaid now.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
9:16 pm
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
7:07 pm
And lastly…
I just thank heaven that the people on the inside of this deal are more aware of all this stuff than the average fan blogger.
I assume you put yourself along with me at the top of this list of fan bloggers.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:17 pm
Shooters like JJ and Bibby can play past 35+.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:18 pm
Enter your comments here
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
9:22 pm
Jerrywest,
If you want to go for the gold why would you want Amare. Howard would be the first choice. Labron, Kobe and Wade get the ink but Howard would be my first pick in building a team.
KevinA
September 29th, 2009
9:23 pm
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:17 pm
Shooters like JJ and Bibby can play past 35+.
yep, with big pay cuts.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:28 pm
LeBro/Wade/Howard/Kobe won’t be traded. Amare can be acquired for the right price.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
9:29 pm
I wouldn’t trade JJ, I don’t think that he wants to leave. I’m not going to jump to conclusions, and I’m going to let business play itself out.
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
9:34 pm
JERRY WEST what are saying
igg avg 18.8 a game only shoot 14 times a game
joe avg 21.2 a game and shoot 20 tmes a game
igg 5.7 rebound a game
joe 4.5 rebound a game
igg 1.8 steal a game
joe 1.1 steal a game
igg make 12mill a year
joe want 16mill or more
igg 25
joe 28
who overated look like joe to me.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Tony
September 29th, 2009
9:34 pm
I am still waiting for someone to answer my question I stated above. And truth I’m with you bro. 4 yrs 60 mil and you turn that down. That’s insane especially when you are not worth more than that.
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:37 pm
JJ might be able force a good deal for Woody. If Smoove keeps doing bone headed things, JJ might push Sund to trade Smoove.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
9:38 pm
Iggy plays SF and his game suffred when Cheeks treied moving him to the SG spot, conversely JJ can play PG,SG, and SF without a hitch…also Iggy is in the paint more B/C of him playing the SF position while JJ often at the SG spot, is not.
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
9:40 pm
Jerry, the fans(me etc.) would stone Rick if he traded our poster boy Hint: it’s not JJ.
BTW, Our fan attendance has gone up every year since smoove was drafted…
kwooden1
September 29th, 2009
9:44 pm
JJ not signing is a good sign to me, because he’s put all the pressure on himself to perform. If he takes the next step he will get paid accordingly, if he takes a step back he will get paid accordingly.
If he had signed the contract early that would tell me he’s worried about taking a step back. From the brief interview I heard from JJ on the John Thompson Show, I would have been shocked if he signed the contract. He wants to be a great team leader and one of the elite players in the league. Betting on himself that he will become an elite player by not signing early is one way to do that. Physically he’s not as gifted as Kobe, Wade or Lebron, so for him to be a player of that caliber he will have to become an exceptional passer/shooter/facilitator. I just don’t know if anyone can will themselves to become that! But I look forward to seeing if he does.
GO HAWKS!!
jerrywest
September 29th, 2009
9:47 pm
Darrell,
Stat isn’t everything. If Iggy could shoot he would have been an elite player. He has an $80 million dollar contract. We could use him if we didn’t have JJ, but with that contract, I’ll pass.
The Truth
September 29th, 2009
9:57 pm
The thing that JJ needs to understand is that he will be an elite player when the Hawks become an elite team. It is not a proclamation that he needs to publicly make. As Bibby stated yesterday and is still true today, that the players need to set aside individual goals and focus only on team goals and just win. If they do that, then all other things will take care of themselves.
kwooden1
September 29th, 2009
10:00 pm
Truth, clearly thats not true, because B. Wallace, R. Wallace, Billups, etc aren’t and weren’t elite players and they were an elite team for years along with a ring to prove it.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
10:02 pm
Oh come on. JJ didn’t say he already is an elite player. He said that he feels he can be one. What the HELL is wrong with that?
I don’t get it. People knock JJ for not being assertive enough and that he’s a “good but not great” plaer. And when he finally expresses confidence that he can be a great player, he gets knocked for being arrogant? Huh?
darrell starks
September 29th, 2009
10:03 pm
JERRY WATCH WHAT I TELL YOU IGG WILL BE A BEAST THIS YEAR.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
rusty
September 29th, 2009
10:07 pm
joe doesnt have the athletic ability that iggy has.
iggy can jump and leaves jj in the dust. philly would never make that trade. how any one can say joe is the heart of this team is crazy, he is plays
half court,never fast breaks,dribbles way too much eating up the time cloak and is way to inconsistant.
with him in the lineup we will never have any ball
movement, he is way over rated. he is not worth what
we are offering, we need to trade him for a big man.
The Truth
September 29th, 2009
10:08 pm
kwooden1, some would argue that Billups is one of the elite PG in the game today.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
10:25 pm
And The Truth,
So you’re saying that you ignored the longer article Sekou wrote, and instead of focusing on the 2.5 paragraphs where he talked about the team, the only part that you care about is the one sentence where he talks about his individual goals…and you say that proves he’s already moved onto looking for another team? There is absolutely no logic in that. What, are basketball players supposed to have no desire to raise their individual games? How is it possible for a player to help the team without raising his individual game? Did it hurt the Suns when Nash raised his game from “good” to “elite?”
I’m sorry, but your position makes zero sense, but you’d be great at making political attack ads, because you apparently are great at finding one thing that a player says and extrapolating it out to it’s illogical extreme.
macaroni tony
September 29th, 2009
10:25 pm
The flight of the Hawks
5:01PM ET
Atlanta Hawks
Top Email
With all their key pieces back, the Hawks are legit contenders.
will someone post this, if they have inside.
Ramon
September 29th, 2009
10:38 pm
Billups is in the top 3 pgs today!
The Truth
September 29th, 2009
10:53 pm
niremetal
Before you reach a for-gone conclusion and put words in my mouth without asking me, it is possible that I never saw that article when I made my comment. It’s not like I read both and pick the worse version. Frankly, I’m not finding anything in the extended version either regarding the things I mentioned. By the way, that was a sample part, not the only part I focus.
I can say one thing about you nire. You are one helliver spin machine for the Hawks. You must be on the payroll. True? If you’re not, you need to be.
This is one time when I hope I’m wrong and I hope you are right. But until then, neither one of us can claim the right answer. These reactions on this blog about JJ are raw, you need to deal with it.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
11:11 pm
The Truth,
It’s pretty tough to be on the Hawks’ payroll when you work in the Delaware Valley (which is to say “no, I’m not”). I realize that your reactions are wrong. But you can’t say with a straight face that now that you DID read the longer article on JJ instead of the snap one that Sekou wrote right after he got the news that there is more evidence for your stated view (that JJ has already decided to leave Atlanta) than mine (that JJ probably plans to stay right here, but didn’t want to commit himself so far in advance a contract that was both shorter and cheaper than he could probably get a year from).
Every statement that JJ makes in that article except for the one sentence you quoted focuses on the team. Even after I linked to the longer article, you responded by quoting the one and only statement where JJ even mentions himself, and extrapolated that statement out to a few miles past the bounds of logic. So…how am I the spin doctor?
After reading the longer article, do you still not “see any signs of a door opening between JJ and the Hawks?” And you said that “JJ is the only player to publicly state that he wants out during training camp.” But where did he say he wants out? He never, ever said that. He never even said anything remotely close to that. I’m sorry, but you just made that part up out of thin air.
You said that the article “removed all doubt as to where his motivations are these days.” But even the most cursory examination of what JJ actually says shows that that’s complete and utter nonsense. And if you can’t acknowledge that, then I truly will be amazed.
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
11:12 pm
*I realize that your reactions are raw
(Although there’s a Freudian slip if ever there was one…)
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
11:34 pm
lol…
Ariose
September 29th, 2009
11:37 pm
You sisses don’t forget that there’s more action over on Ray & Ando’s blog Hawks Fan Nest! Get you pansy arses on over there!!!!
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog/2009/09/27/practice-beyond-closed-doors/comment-page-1/#comment-2810
niremetal
September 29th, 2009
11:43 pm
Last thing before I sign off for the night. Here’s a little breakdown of Joe’s sentences in that article.
Statements where Joe talks about the team and where the team is headed:
“My sole focus right now is on this team and what we’re trying to accomplish this season.”
“Like every other man in that locker room, I’m all in for my team.”
“I don’t have any doubts that we’re set for a big year, and that’s all I care about. We’ve all worked hard to get to this point, and we’re trying to get over that hump this season.”
“I think with the young nucleus we have with Josh [Smith], Al [Horford] and Marvin and Mike running the show, the sky is the limit for us.”
“Each year we’ve gotten better. And I look forward to those guys continuing to improve and our team making more strides as time goes on.”
Statement where Joe talks about both himself and the team:
“I have some goals set for this season for my team, and I have some individual goals set for myself as well.”
Statement where Joe talks about himself without mentioning the team:
“I really feel like I can be one of the elite players in this league, and it’s going to be an exciting year.”
And yeah, that last sentence is just so arrogant and self-centered and presumptuous. Who does he think he is mentioning that he thinks he can raise his game to the next level? How dare he.
That is all.
The Truth
September 30th, 2009
12:12 am
niremetal
“I realize that your reactions are wrong.”
What are you doing nire? Grand standing; now you are going to tell me how to feel and discredit the comment? You need to get out of fantasy land. Show me where JJ said he is going to sign the extension? You can believe what you want to believe and attack my comment like some internet troll with insults, but it doesn’t change the fact the he didn’t sign. Reactions to cause and effect
I have been giving you the benefit of doubt for mis-reading, misquoting, misinterpreting and other misses that I can’t think of (it’s late) about my comment. I can’t believe you got so much of what I said wrong. I was just kidding about you working for the Hawks you really need to lightning up. If you think I’m going to change my comment, I’m not, deal with it. I really don’t feel like going into trial court explaining it all to you. Let’s just agree to disagree. I’m done.
Ariose
September 30th, 2009
12:31 am
Truth, Please read his 11:12pm post lol. IT WAS A MISTAKE….
Ariose
September 30th, 2009
12:32 am
…he meant Raw
The Flash
September 30th, 2009
1:26 am
Name me a superstar scorer who occupied the ball as much as JJ and won, I mean won it all? Cat got your tounge. Oscar Robertson, once, when he had Kareem, and then he gave it up, quickly. That’s the list; there is none. The question is not whether JJ will resign; it is whether he can change. I think that the answer is not.
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
3:24 am
” But hey. It wouldn’t be Sekou’s blog if there weren’t people calling JJ a selfish ballhog who only looks out for himself….”
….or Woody an idiot
….or Josh a bonehead with low b-ball IQ, who is holding the team back
….or Marvin a bust
….or Horford an undersized center who will never lead us to a championship
….or the ASG a pile of penniless paupers
….or Zaza a klutz who gets rebounds by accident
….or Bibby a clod-footed fool who plays zero defense
….or each other every name in the book when we don’t agree with each other.
Sorry but it’s not always about Joe , it just so happens to be about him for the moment. Right or wrong, Joe gets his lumps no more than the others mentioned above, and often less.
Having said that, some of the arguments and knee jerk reactions do seem far to the left, and others seem wide to the right. We’re fans. It’s what we do.
As for “the average blogger” , I do believe that applies to ALL OF US . Anybody who disagrees, feel free to raise your hand….and be laughed right off the board for your trouble…
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
3:30 am
Truth ,
I realize the argument is not my business, but I’ll say this: I know Nire , and I can verify he’s not a Hawks employee (I know you said you were kidding, but who knows what you really believe
).
Nire ,
Not fussing with you, but after watching me campaign for Josh Smith for so long, I figured you’d learn from my bullishness and NOT let this stuff get to you.
And you KNOW this board spreads the punishment around.
Big Ray
September 30th, 2009
3:33 am
The Flash ,
That’s what I like about you. You’re like a storm, man. Regardless of whether I agree with your or not, I like how when you do come around, you come with some THUNDER. I think there is some serious merit to your words, and I hope people notice them.
Ariose ,
Thanks for the shoutout, man!
bird
September 30th, 2009
4:51 am
Go Hawks!
vava74
September 30th, 2009
7:03 am
I think the ball hogging accusations on JJ around here are going a bit over board.
Yes, JJ pounds the ball a bit too much for my taste as well, however, if we look at our system, he actually plays the PG position for us for long stretches of the game, many times, his ISO plays end up being drive and dish situations, specially when he acts as a decoy, being double or triple teamed.
Hence, I think he plays the role which has been assigned to him by Woody and it is not him conditioning our system.
This system has obvious disadvantages, however, it also has proven to have some advantages:
It maximizes Bibby’s positive characteristics as a sniper and minimizes his negative ones (he is no longer able to carry the rock and distribute consistently);
Since there is less ball movement, it diminished the TO’s in a very inexperienced team.
Now we need to see if the system evolves and JJ is required to share the rock more and let the play flow.
Nonetheless, in relation to real stats and not “impressions”, last year we rated 23rd in Assists per game with 20,20.
This is way better than how we historically fare in this chapter.
We should all note that we were ahead of Orlando which went to the finals (29th with 19,42), New Orleans who has Chris Paul (28th with 19,62), close to Cleveland which game is stalled by Lebron (20th with 20,28) and not far away from the midway mark (Golden State was 15th with 20,86 with their up tempo game).
On top, there’s the Jazz and then the Lakers, who have ball movement as default in their systems (Sloan is a great team play coach and the Triangle Offense implies that Kobe does not hog the ball).
Then comes Phoenix (up tempo game on the second half and Steve Nash) and then the Celtics (a good passing starting 5).
niremetal
September 30th, 2009
7:25 am
Ray,
I never said that JJ was the only one who gets persistently bashed around here. I actually thought about adding the bit about Horford to my own post, but figured it was off-topic since (as you said) the only person people are talking about now is JJ.
Punishment definitely gets spread around here. And you could have added “…or Sekou a stooge” and “…or Crawford a step down from Flip” to your list
.
The Truth,
Like Ariose said, I corrected myself on that one. I never said that JJ said he was going to sign the extension – I said that his comments lend more support for the idea that he’s planning to stick around than for the idea that he’s planning to jump ship. Like Sekou pointed out, every player on the Hawks roster who has come up for free agency in the past 4 years waited until they became free agents to renegotiate, and like I said, the overwhelming majority of NBA players do the same thing. I admit I got miffed by your post, because you absolutely did put words in Joe’s mouth (“JJ is the only player to publicly state that he wants out during training camp.”) But I overreacted, which I’m apt to do when I get into a debate like this. I wasn’t trying to run you off the reservation…I just decided to focus my frustration over all the “JJ is a selfish brat” posts on you since you were the one who made the longest comment on the matter. Sorry for scapegoating you like that.
Check out Dezz Nuttz
September 30th, 2009
7:45 am
Joe Johnson is smart enough to see that the Hawks arent serious about getting a ring. He knows Horford and ZaZa Koncak aint going to get it done in the middle. At this stage in his life hes thinking about rings, like all true players it comes down to at the end of the day how many rings did you get. Hawks will be a fun team to watch but will bow out in the second round. Johnson will move on to a team that is upper tier and the Hawks will become a team in transition. Thanks Sun, for sitting on your hands and doing nothing.
Check out Dezz Nuttz
September 30th, 2009
7:45 am
Sund
Fork tongue review board.
September 30th, 2009
8:01 am
As Mr Truth Serum has correctly stated but is often misquoted, ZaZa gets rebounds(by the way he doesnt get a lot of them, hes just below average) because of where he is at on the floor. Any seven ft center will get some rebounds just because of where hes at. Duh?! Hes not the type of force that controls the middle and therefore commands rebounds but is rather the type that gets an occasional rebound because of his place on the floor. Bottom line is this was once the hawks starting center who is now a backup scrubb that is over paid when compared to Collins who produces the same numbers for millions less. Get real you Haters who take things out of context. I understand why Mr Serum speaks roughly with you. Signing all these scrubbs and not going after the center that will take the hawks to the next level but rather went after a shooting guard when we already had flip who could produce similar numbers as Crawford. JJ can see that sund does not have a clue!Niether does this radical hater cell known as the Bubba crew that runs this blog site.
dap01
September 30th, 2009
8:06 am
The Hawks have offered JJ $15 per year for 4 years. That is guaranteed money. Regardless of the economy, I don’t believe that he is getting more. Who is going to pay him more?
vava74
September 30th, 2009
8:55 am
Another thought:
When JJ underperformed in the playoffs, everyone was saying that he was not being aggressive and that he was not taking over games…
I distinctively remember that he tried his best to beat double and triple teams in order to find a good shot or to a pass to someone free (which was way more frequent than him forcing bad shots).
Now that he has not signed the extension, he is a ball hog… if he was a selfish guy, wouldn’t he have shot more? His FG% in the playoffs was poor, however, it was only 2% worse than during the regular season (.020) which does not necessarily translate in to him being selfish.
He was the victim of a unbalanced system which was exposed by a stronger competition, bad refereeing and further undermined by Marvin and Al’s injuries (and, of course, by his own ankle sprain).
Anyone bashing JJ is being incredibly ungrateful.
Daniel
September 30th, 2009
9:03 am
Joe is not going to sign the extension. By any measure, this is not a good thing for the Hawks. I completely understand from Joe’s position. He only stands to gain financially unless he has some catastrophic injury. So, I can’t be mad at him (well, I can because I am a fan and by nature unreasonable). The Hawks made a legit offer, so I don’t think I can be mad at him. I think it is smart to go ahead and make the announcement now, so the speculation doesn’t run all season long. I don’t think the announcement changes one iota the teams outlook for the season. But, lord have mercy the next off season is going to be stressful. When people suggest that we can replace Joe, they haven’t been watching. Sure Kobe, Lebron, D.Wade(maybe) would be an upgrade but we are not getting any of those guys. Rip Hamilton is not on Joe’s level. I will try to put this out of my mind as soon as possible, and hope that during the off season we can resign Joe.
Daniel
September 30th, 2009
9:03 am
I meant mad at the Hawks(them)
Daniel
September 30th, 2009
9:04 am
dap01- New York, New Jersey, Phoenix, Miami, Clevland
ILL-logical
September 30th, 2009
9:11 am
A bit of clarification is in order, I believe. Jamal Crawford was obtained as an insurance policy in the event that Mike Bibby did resign AND if Joe Johnson did not either. Mr. Sund ’s move was essentially revenue neutral because when the salaries of Acie Law, Calvin Claxton and Ronald Murray culmlatively are compared with Jamal Crawford’s , it is a wash. In addition, the 1 for 3 swap allowed Mr. Sund to bring both Joe Smith and Jason Collins without having to delete any key personnel and within the team’s budget.
With some additional assets and a relatively stable payroll, Mr. Sund is now afforded some financial flexibilty: he has made an intial offer, albeit lowball, offer to Joe Johnson to demonstrate the organizations desire to retain his services and he now has the ability to trade every other featured player on the roster to improve the team at any point in the season or in the summer.Not bad for a country boy.
Joe Johnson will get paid whether it is here or someplace else. He will however have to show more leadership both on and off the court to get there. He is going to have to do “star” type things if he wants to earn “star” money. Hiding out in Arkansas every year will no longer be an option if he wants to be among the league’s elite. Me, I hope that he achieves his goals here by making his teammates and the team better on the court and representing the organization in a visible and positive manner off of the court.
The Truth
September 30th, 2009
11:07 am
niremetal
Apology Accepted; a toast to one of your characters that is much admired.
Most of the credit to my JJ comments goes to Sekou for breaking an apparently drafted version followed by a more thorough version to a very sensitive story. The best way to clarify my quote you referenced so that it is not taken out of context is to playback the full version:
“JJ is the only player to publicly state that he wants out during training camp.”
“He can’t be compared with Josh, Bibby, or Marvin in their contract year because they weren’t offered extensions. Their drama all happened in the summer and ended before training camp. JJ is the only player to publicly state that he wants out during training camp. That sounds like a motivational killer to me to an emerging team that is looking to do special things this year.”
My response suggests I am frustrated as well. The JJ reference is the only player meaning JJ being the only Hawk player is based the notion that actions speaks louder than words. Since he was vague about the matter, then his actions is left to rule. I mean literally rule: He’s not going to re-sign means he’s going to end his relationship with the Hawks at the end of the season. Yes, you are correct; I unfairly put those unspoken words in his mouth. He didn’t actually say those words, but the drafted or short version left those thoughts. Maybe he should have said more; well he actually did talk about the team and individual goals in the extended version. It is nothing wrong with reading those things you suggested between the lines that he might stay, I really hope he does, but his option of leaving is equally creditable. Do we stand with Sund or do we stand with JJ that is the question? Sund has already indicated that the Hawks ownership is not an abundantly funded franchise. So if JJ is posturing for max dollars then that could be a problem for various reasons. But enough with this speculation, let’s just enjoy the season and hope for the best.
WTF!!!
September 30th, 2009
11:22 pm
WHAT THE HELL, WHY ARE YALL MAD @ JOE CAUSE HE WON’T SIGN , DAMN IF YALL CAN READ AND STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT BIGGER THEN WHAT IT IS, HE CLEARLY SAID HE’S NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT NOW, WHY??? CAUSE THAT WILL CAUSE SO MUCH ATTENTION ON HIM, HE TOLD YALL HE IS WORRIED ABOUT THE TEAM, AND TAKEN THEM TO THE NEXT LEVEL, THE HAWKS HAD ALL SUMMER TO OFFER HIM , AND NOW WHEN TRAINING CAMP COMES THEY WANT TO DO IT, THATS NOT HOW U HANDLE BUSINESS, ITS PRACTICE TIME, U DO THAT ON UR OWN TIME, AND THATS THE OFF SEASON, AND YALL KEEP COMPARING JOE TO WADE AND JAMES, HE WOULD KILL BOTH OF THEM 1 ON 1, AND U SEE WHAT HE DID TO KOBE LAST YEAR HELD HIM UNDER 15 POINTS, AND CROSSED HIM OVER, I DONT KNOW WHAT GAMES YALL LOOKIN AT, I GUESS CAUSE HE’S NOT ON SPORTCENTER TOP 10 EVERY NIGHT DUNKIN ON PEOPLE OR CAUSE HES NOT ON ANY COMMERCIALS, YALL FORGOT IF IT WASNT FOR HIM THERE WOULDNT BE NO PLAYOFFS, NO MORE THEN 13 GAMES WON, NO GAME 7 AGAINST THE CELTICS, NO SECOND ROUND AGAINST CLEVELAND, HE GAVE WADE THE BUSINESS SHOOTING EVERY WHERE ON HIS ASS EVEN FROM THE WING OF THE BIRD, BUT YALL STILL WANT TO DOG THIS MAN, HE PLAYED THROUGH A SPRAINED ANKLE, AND NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT NOTHING, NOW THATS A PLAYER WITH HEART, WADE, KOBE, AND JAMES, HAD A SUPPORTING CAST THAT THEY CAN DUMP IT OFF TO ANYTIME THEY WILL MAKE A SHOT, JOE DIDNT, ITS NOT ABOUT HOW MANY POINTS YOU SCORING ITS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS, KOBE HAS ONE CAUSE OF SHAQ, WADE HAS ONE BECAUSE OF SHAQ AND OTHER ALLSTARS ON THE TEAM, LEBRON HES OUT THE PICTURE HE SUCKS EVERYTIME IN THE PLAYOFFS, YALL JUST SOME D!@% RIDERS, DONT KNOW NOTHING BOUT A GAME, AND DONT WATCH I SEE, JUST A BUNCH OF BLOGGERS TRYING TO GET ATTENTION, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY YALL THE ONES UPSET, BLOWING YALL BRAINS OUT, WHILE THEY JUST CHILLIN LAUGHING AT YALL ASS, WHILE THEY GETTIN PAYED AND HITTING THE CLUB AFTER A WIN OR LOSE POPPING BOTTLES ON YALL LAMES, KEEP HATING ON HIM AND WISH HIM AWAY, I PROMISE BASKETBALL WILL NOT BE THE SAME AROUND HERE, IT WILL BE BACK TO 13 GAMES, MAR MY WORD, AND WHOS SAYS JOSH SMITH CAN CARRY THE TEAM, MAN PLEASE, KILL YO SELF, HE CANT DRIBBLE OR SHOOT, NO LOW POST MOVES AT ALL, ALL HE CAN DO IS GIVE U ONE GOOD BLOCK, AND A HIGHLIGHT DUNK, BIBBY CAN SHOOT BUT NO DEFENSE, AL CAN REBOUND BUT NO OFFENSE AND JUST A LIL DEFENSE, BUT KNO LOW POST MOVES, MARVIN TOO CLUMSEY,AND YALL CAN BLAME IT ON THE COACH ALL DAY, HE JUST DONT HAVE THE PLAYERS, BUT JOE THATS WHY HE USED HIM SO MUCH, GET YALL FACTS RIGHT MAN BUT THE HAWKS WILL BE BETTER THEN EVER THIS YEAR, THIS IS THE SUPRISE TEAM, GO HAWKS!!! AND JOE JOHNSON #2 ALOT OF YALL HATE HIM BUT I PROMISE MANY MORE PEOPLE LOVE HIM!!!! REMBER THAT!!
Romase
October 3rd, 2009
5:59 pm
site best
jwilli120
October 9th, 2009
12:35 pm
did anybody remember the detroit pistons a couple of years ago ??
they didn’t have a true superstar and won a title!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!