Flip’s gone, time for camp
Flip Murray and Mike Woodson had a great year together, but that's history now. Murray has moved on to Charlotte and the Hawks are on the eve of training camp with a different mix of players.
HAWKSVILLE – One last time, Flip Murray is gone.
It’s over. And it’s official.
Take one last good look at him in his Hawks uniform (above next to Hawks coach Mike Woodson) and then move on.
Charlotte’s gain is the Hawks’ loss, until you scan the recently released training camp roster and realize that guys that the man replacing Flip as the Hawks’ third guard is a player that by any measure is a far better player. Whether or not he’s a better fit on this team remains to be seen. But anyone making the argument for Flip over Jamal Crawford needs to clean the lenses on their BlueBlockers.
And don’t get me wrong, I think was extremely valuable to the Hawks’ cause last season. He was a great fit at the perfect time for a team that desperately needed a tough guy with a no-nonsense attitude coming off the bench to help energize their second unit. But this idea that Flip won games for the Hawks last season is make believe.
It never happened.
Would I have love to see Flip remain in a Hawks uniform? Sure. That would have been ideal. But him moving on to a one-year deal with the Bobcats doesn’t shift the balance of power in the Southeast Division either.
Now there are plenty of people within the Hawks organization that disagree with me. They’ve been arguing me down all summer about Flip. They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.
In fact, I’d argue that Mo Evans was every bit as crucial to the Hawks’ 47-win season of a year ago. He was actually pressed into service as a starter (for an injured Marvin Williams (and the Hawks won roughly 67 percent of the games in which Evans started). Flip was never called upon to shoulder the load of say a Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson for an extended stretch of the season.
I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …
TRAINING CAMPERS
The training camp roster stands at 20 players, right at the number expected. Can’t say that there are any surprise names on the list either. You know the regulars, the guys already under guaranteed contracts for this season. What deserves further scrutiny is the eight players on the training camp roster that are looking for work. A brief breakdown of each guy and the initial outlook of his chances of securing that 13th roster spot (and perhaps the 14th if someone makes a definitive case for sticking around):
JUAN DIXON – The internal concerns about the Hawks’ point guard depth is reflected in the number of veteran guards on the camp roster, highlighted by this veteran guard. Dixon has never carved a niche for himself as a starting point guard but he’s been a factor on several teams as a situational combo guard. He’ll need a huge showing in camp to snag a roster spot.
OTHELLO HUNTER — Having already made the team this way a year ago, Hunter knows the odds are stacked against him sticking this year. The Hawks are deeper in the frontcourt and they’re not as likely to keep a developmental player on the roster if they’re only going to keep 13 players. Still, Hunter has improved as much anyone on the roster from this time a year ago. And with a strong camp, he could force the Hawks to consider keeping him.
AARON MILES – Miles made an appearance on the Hawks’ practice court during the workout season before the 2005 draft but has been basically a pro basketball journeyman since then. He’s a competitor and the kind of guy that always raises the meter defensively but he would appear to be an extreme long-shot to be here beyond the end of camp.
FRANK ROBINSON – One of the more intriguing players you’ll see in camp, Robinson continues to impress with his all-around skill (think a more skilled offensive player with Mario West-like energy). If you see him in action on a daily basis you keep asking yourself, “why isn’t this guy on someone’s roster?” Then you remember his problem is like most guys his size that play his position, they’d have to face the likes of Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Joe Johnson on a nightly basis in the league. But keep an eye on Mr. Robinson. He’ll turn some heads.
GARRET SILER – Augusta’s Finest is looking svelte these days, somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds or so, per one of my spies. He’s going to make you take notice because he’s usually going to be the biggest man in the room or on the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s not skilled, because he is. And that doesn’t mean the Hawks aren’t serious about gauging his long-term potential, because they are. Training camp and the preseason schedule will be the true test for Siler. If he proves he can hold up against top-flight competition over the course of the next month it’ll be hard to send him packing.
COURTNEY SIMS – I’m giving Sims the early nod as the favorite for the MOST SURPRISING CAMPER award. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he spent undergrad in Ann Arbor toiling for the Michigan basketball program. Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has matured tremendously since college. His frame (6-11 and 240 pounds) is much sturdier now and he has a face-up game that stretches beyond the 3-point line (if needed). I want to see how he deals with Al Horford and Josh Smith on a daily basis in camp.
MARIO WEST – If folks thought West was fighting for his life to make the roster the last two years, you’d be wise to pop some popcorn for the show I expect him to put on this time around. No one outworks the maniacal former Georgia Tech standout. While he’s been nursing some nagging injuries in recent weeks, there’s no doubt he’ll crank up the energy next week. The sticking point for West, however, is his salary number. As a rookie and second year player, with a salary under $1 million, West was a fantastic investment. Three years in, though, and his roughly $1 million price tag seems a bit high (to some) for a player that you know probably won’t play much unless there are injury catastrophes in the backcourt.
MIKE WILKS – Like Dixon, Wilks looks more like veteran point guard insurance. And he’s had stints with several teams that proved he could be a legitimate NBA contributor. But the idea of another 6-foot (or thereabouts) point guard on a team that already boasts Bibby and promising rookie Jeff Teague just doesn’t add up. Barring an absolutely stunning performance in camp, I have a hard time justifying a spot for Wilks or any other undersized point guard.
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287 comments Add your comment
JSS
September 25th, 2009
6:33 pm
Interesting takes… Finally time for all to put up or be gone… Oh, I went to EMU by the way… We’ll have to trade Washtenaw war stories one day… Don’t bring up last week’s game…
ILL-logical
September 25th, 2009
6:35 pm
Best wishes to Mr. Murray in his newest job. $2mill ain’t bad in any economy.But the show must go on.
And just as you predicted-no Stackhouse. The new politics of the Hawks are going to be very interesting; no more babys to sit and run over, there a number of grown men on the roster,albeit lacking in starter skills but there has to be another tone now from the staff.
Flip is just a baller; no fancy D1 hype or media generated personna. His skills keep him in the league but sometimes you have to wonder if the NBA has just a little to much show biz about itself.
Gilley
September 25th, 2009
6:39 pm
I thought Stackhouse was coming into camp???
ToeKnee
September 25th, 2009
6:42 pm
Great article sekou. Just a little puzzled about when you say that Flip’s absence will have the same impact as Josh Childress’? Could you clarify your opinion of those players and their impact on the Hawks when they left(or are leaving now I should say)? Are you saying Childress’ departure did not impact the team because we won more games, or are you saying that Childress leaving made a big difference as will flip’s departure?
JB
September 25th, 2009
6:49 pm
Sekou, thanks for the update. I love the acquisitions from the summer and believe that one of these guys could help fill out the roster (I’d love to see big Garret on the team). BTW, you may want to proof one more time before pressing “enter”. But don’t worry about it, we’re all working pretty hard these days and the words seem to run together.
John
September 25th, 2009
6:50 pm
ToeKnee, I’m going to take a stab here and say that Sekou meant that Flip’s departure will have the same effect as Childress’, as in little to none.
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
7:11 pm
That’s just brutal to have 1 spot and 8 guys competing, and 2 spots isn’t much better. My guess is that we can write off Miles, Dixon, Wilks, and (sorry Sekou) Robinson.
So assuming I’m right about that, that leaves Hunter, Siler, Sims, and Rio. My guess is that they actually do end up keeping two of the guys and taking the roster, and it’ll be West and one other. I honestly would be surprised if Siler made the cut, considering that Siler is totally unsuited for any position but center and that we now have 5 guys under contract capable of playing minutes at center (Horford, Zaza, Collins, Joe Smith, and RandMo), four of whom could be rotation players at center on most teams (all but RandMo). Sims has a bit of a better shot since he can play some PF too, but I still would be a little surprised if we burned another roster spot on a big man.
And Sekou – I’m pretty sure that from an “out of pocket” standpoint, Mario costs the same as Hunter or Robinson or Siler would because of the reimbursement rules regarding players signed to minimum-salary deals.
And is my bias towards Hunter and Rio coloring my analysis? I hope not, but probably…
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
*keeping two of the guys taking the roster to 14
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
No problem ToeKnee,
What I’m saying is that no matter how much we might love a guy (y’all know Chil is one of my all-time favorite cats), we can all be replaced. Sometimes the blow is greater. But when it’s a reserve player, as in someone whose contribution is usually a variable anyway, replacing him is even easier than it is someone who you rely on for a starter’s contribution.
I say that only because I was beating the same drum about Chil’s before last season and shut up when I realized that even though he’s my guy, this team moved on with the guys that replaced him. Same thing goes for Flip and anybody else.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
“I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …”
Wow, you must not have loved the Philly baller. While Flip never passed and was selfish with end of quarter shots (HE NEVER PASSED IT), dude was a sick player. he was one of the first guards on this team in years who fearlessly drove to the hoop
Flappin' Hawk
September 25th, 2009
7:22 pm
Hope we all give Flip a standing O when he comes to town next season. He really was the guts of the team last year. Was shocked when Sekou said :
“They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.”
I know you were at the games (so was I) but your head musta been in the popcorn if you “never witnessed that sort of impact”.
I’ve been watching this team since the early 70s. He gave us an in-your-face aggressive style that I have never seen any Hawk player exhibit. He may not have hit every shot or been the world’s most eloquent interview, but he had an on-the-court swagger that made the Hawks a better team last year. Key word…last year.
No argument Teague and Crawford made Flip expendable this year. Still hats off and thanks to Flip for last year.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:23 pm
Let’s not forget that Flip cost us nothing last year. He made a little more last year than Mario would make on the QO this year — LOL. One the other hand, Crawford will cost 5x as much as Flip this year. Will he be much better? Yes, but 5x as much in salary? Idk
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:26 pm
“I’ve been watching this team since the early 70s. He gave us an in-your-face aggressive style that I have never seen any Hawk player exhibit. He may not have hit every shot or been the world’s most eloquent interview, but he had an on-the-court swagger that made the Hawks a better team last year. Key word…last year.”
Amen to that. Flip drove to the basket without fear. Name one guard who you have all seen do that in the last 6 years since Jason Terry was here…Acie Law? Cedric Bozeman?
Stating the Obvious
September 25th, 2009
7:27 pm
Yeah, because we just kicked ass when Jason Terry was in town…
Samuel
September 25th, 2009
7:34 pm
Absolutely right. Flip did account for much needed scoring when others(JJ,Bibby ect) weren’t getting it done. Crawford can do the same thing.
To me, we have to go with Siler and Sims. The two bigs we signed this offseason(Smith and Collins) are basically one year rentals. They’ll be moving on and moving out. I believe Sims and Siler can develop into serious players. It’s not really a gamble to sign them to a 1 year deal.
I’m just not feeling Mario this year. We got Mo for that roll this year. Why waste a spot. We don’t really need any filler PGs either. We have 4 guys(Bibby,Teague,crawford and JJ) who can play PG in spots. Why waste a roster spot on a lifetime scrubb like Dixon.
To me the choice is easy. Siler and Sims.
UGA
September 25th, 2009
7:35 pm
Sekou,
Should we have another SF on our training camp roster? Gerald Green?
And what if Sims and Siler our perform Randolph Morris? Can we release Morris and sign these 2 guys?
Thanks!
UGA
September 25th, 2009
7:36 pm
I meant out perform.
Blast
September 25th, 2009
7:52 pm
Whew! Flip finally got a job!
Yes it is brutal, Niremetal. 8 men fighting for one or two slots. NBA, baby! Mario West might not make the cut this time around.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
I think it’s more wide open than you think Nire. And there’s no guarantee that any of these eight guys remains on the roster beyond training camp. We’ll have to wait and see how it plays out.
Tony
September 25th, 2009
7:56 pm
Sekou,
I’m sorry to tell you this bro but DO NOT put Lebron and D-Wade or even the champ Kobe B. in the same sentence, let alone the same room, with Joe Johnson. HE IS NOT A SUPERSTAR. You and others on this blog mention him as a superstar, i’m sorry he’s not. First of all Josh is our best player. So all you haters can get a life. Yeah that’s right. J-Smoove is our best player.
HOLLA ATCHA BOY. ATL’s Finest. Go hawks.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
8:06 pm
Wow. Flip for President, huh? Ha. Listen, I’ll state once again that I not only loved Flip’s game but I would have loved for the Hawks to be able to keep him. All I’m saying is there is life after Flip.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
8:11 pm
Man, I’m taking licks from every direction tonight around here. I’d have been better off going to the club with my 80s gear on and trying to get some numbers. Ha. I hear you Tony, but the point I was making re: Kobe, Wade and Joe in regards to Frank Robinson was that he’s going to have to guard elite shooting guards, guys that everybody in the league has a hard time dealing with. And If there are 10 elite shooting guards in the league and Kobe and DWade are at the top, Joe is somewhere on that list.
FREDRICK STEELE
September 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
Enter your comments here GUYS FLIP WAS A VALUABLE PART OF THE HAWKS. I PREFER FLIP TO MAURICE EVANS. AT LEAST FLIP CAN DRIBBLE. MAURICE EVANS CAN’T BREAK DOWN A DEFENDER BY DRIBBLING. I LOVED FLIP’S GAME. HE WASN’T AFRAID TO TAKE A SHOT AND HE WAS A GOOD DEFENDER. LET’S GET THIS GUY BACK SOON. TRADE MO EVANS
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
Great blog, Sekou .
I think that describes Flip’s impact to a “T”. Loved the guy, and hope he does well in Charlotte.
I can see us keeping another big man, despite the fact that we have several. As Samuel posted, Collins and Smith are 1 year deal guys. Something tells me that neither guy will be here next year. If both parties wanted that (front office and the players themselves), they would have signed longer contracts. As it is, it only takes one side to not want a longer deal, for it not to happen.
I still have hopes for Siler, but wouldn’t ignore Sims either. And Hunter is still my boy. Tough call.
‘Rio might be out of the mix this time, but I hope he can sign on elsewhere if not here. And as it is, I wouldn’t be crushed if he left. Not that I want him outta here per se, but things are changing.
It will be interesting to see how Woody approaches camp, and gets these guys in the groove for trying to make that step up. Not that we’ll get to see this for ourselves (no access to camp), but it will be interesting all the same. I think Woody is really looking forward to camp and what not, this year.
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
8:31 pm
If we cut Rio, he will turn up on the Spurs or Jazz roster at some point in the near-to-mid-term future. You heard it here first…
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 25th, 2009
8:33 pm
i was banging the drum for flip all off-season, so i hate to see him go. no question that there are guys as, or more, talented then him (for what he does as an off-the-bench scorer) but dude never got rattled. but with the other additions, the team is obviously better even without him.
someone mentioned above about another three (where’s aroise and his gerald green mantra?) because if history is any indicator, the team will have to go a stretch without marvin and/or josh or both.
hard to believe we’re only a month and change away from the important season at lease fifteen years.
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 25th, 2009
8:34 pm
nire – couldn’t agree more on ‘rio.
King Beef
September 25th, 2009
8:34 pm
Glad to see Flip’s family is still on the blog. Guts of the team. No one but his family would of said that. It is funny how much respect some of you guys give someone when they are gone. Chill was the heart of the team. Now, Flip was the guts. Flip is a journeyman no more no less. Best of luck to him, the Hawks will be fine. Flip shot 34% in the playoffs. Stop making him a hero.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:43 pm
Tribe ,
Not yelling at you, but this whole business about Crawford and his salary versus Flip’s appears to remain convoluted. We traded Acie and Claxton’s 8+ million dollar a year salaries for Crawford’s 10 million a year salary. And we let Flip go on his way. So if anything, we are now paying 10 million for a guy who can score 20 any given night, whereas we were paying close to 12 million for three guys, two of whom were giving us next to nothing.
Why are we still comparing salaries between Flip and Crawford? If we’re going to use salaries as a barometer, then should JJ be 8x as good as Flip? Because he ain’t …
As Sekou mentioned, we still don’t know if Crawford is as good or better a FIT for this team, but he’s clearly a better player. Not only that, but I’d go so far as to say that bringing Crawford here was not for the purposes of replacing Flip.
I will echo Sautee and say that Crawford not only replaces Flip, but he was JJ and Bibby insurance. Bibby was not a guaranteed re-sign. And JJ hasn’t signed his contract yet. A guy who has proven he can score at a high rate when called upon? Not bad insurance in case things go sideways. Is that the situation we want? Hell no, but better preparation than we had is important. And Sund did just that.
Now let’s see if it works.
Shameless Plug Alert
September 25th, 2009
8:45 pm
…. The Hawks Fan Nest is live….
Shameless Plug Alert
September 25th, 2009
8:46 pm
Hawks Fan Nest Blog that is…
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
8:47 pm
Don’t Worry Sekou, I gotcha’ back
Lol, Flip is getting so much love, I don’t even feel the need to comment
About Stack not being on the Training Camp roster: That still doesnt rule him out. He’s a career 18ppg scorer, why would he sign a non-gaurenteed contract just to attend someones camp? If the camp invites turn out to be scrubtacular and ‘Rio cant get away from that inury, Mr.Stack will probably be getting a call……from somebody. Denver and CLE are still looking.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:48 pm
ChuckW ,
Yeah I didn’t want to see him go, either. I think the drafting of Jeff Teague pretty much sealed that deal though. After all, that came after the trade for Crawford. I want to see Mario get a gig somewhere else regardless, if he isn’t kept on here.
I’d like to see another three added as well, but I think we’re going to have to settle for a combo forward. Hunter may fit this description. Very interested in whether or not Sims’ shooting range helps him make the cut.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
Ray, it’s not on the main Hawks page yet. Hurry and post the link so I can claim my rightful place as 1st!!!
cp
September 25th, 2009
8:52 pm
I would like to see Siler and Hunter make the team. Mario cant shoot nor dribble and we have Mo already so I see no need for Mario. Would have been nice to get Gerald Green in the mix but I guess we don’t have a spot for him. I think the Bobcats can sneak in the playoffs this year. They had a good chance last season but played terrible down the stretch.
ToeKnee
September 25th, 2009
8:52 pm
Thanks, that’s why I was confused because I knew how much you liked Chills, on and off the court. I just don’t know how many minutes are even left for any of these guys with the depth we finally have. I think we all hope that Woodson will improve on his substitution skills, but do you really see any of these guys doing anything more than push the main crew in practice? I think that’s a big reason Woodson likes Mario so much, because he pushes the guys in practice.
Harpie
September 25th, 2009
8:54 pm
Man, what team were you watching? Flip was huge for the Hawks last season!
Ramon
September 25th, 2009
8:59 pm
I say keep Siler and Sims. There are more unemployed swing positions who can score, than their are unemployed skilled big men who have potential and size (you can’t coach that). I would love to keep West on the inactive list as well. I still feel you need a hustle guy on the squad. Another thing is, having Sims makes Morris expendable for cash.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
9:04 pm
Chuck!!!,
GERLAD GREEN!!!! ($800K!!!)
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
9:04 pm
Ariose ,
Heh heh, sorry but you were usurped. There are 3 or 4 posts there already…post the link in a second, if I can figure this out. One way to get there is to put your mouse cursor on the “Sports” icon, then go over to the right and click on “other blogs.” When they come up, look for “Hawks Fan Nest.” Now lemme try this link:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog/
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:13 pm
Big Ray,
J Craw will hurt us in FA 2010. Do you not know this? Flip made absolute garbage money and was money for us last year. In terms of salaries, you go with Flip anyday.
That being said, I am excited as hell about Crawford. Thinking about this team gives me the chills in a good way.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
9:14 pm
Thanks Ray. LOL…
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:15 pm
Um Joe may not be a “superstar” but he is the 3rd best SG in the game until further notice
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:17 pm
No point getting a player that only plays PG for the roster spot. Get Mario or a defensive SG/SF who can shoot 3’s (something Rio CANT do)
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:18 pm
Well folks after a season of Braves blogging, it is getting near the time to jump on here again. I was thinking I would already start to but the Braves are making it interesting again.
Good to be back.
Ramon
September 25th, 2009
9:20 pm
ATCQ, think about this, Crawford can actually help us in free agency next season. As he can be a great sign and trade chip for another team who doesn’t want to lose their player for nothing. When Sund is on the phone talking to other GMs about their players, do you think they’d rather hear Flip’s name or Crawford’s name?
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:35 pm
Ramon, probably Flip’s. Crawford is notoriously known as a coach killer, has never made the playoffs. I am hoping he changes this year and we go far. Flip is a very underrated player. Teams know he is a killer but won’t sign him.
Beats me
The Truth
September 25th, 2009
9:35 pm
Sorry Sekou, I can’t continue to ride this train of comparing Flip to Crawford anymore. I have nothing but good memories of Flip as a Hawk. Why don’t we just let the good memories rest in peace?
As I previously posted, I can’t believe we invite 5 PGs and not get one out of the pile as a 3rd PG. Since we have two 1-year vets in the rotation, I hope we strongly consider keeping Siler and Sims in our long range plans since bigs are hard to come by.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:38 pm
The only bad memories I have of Flip was his buzzer shots. Did he ever make one?
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
9:44 pm
Tribe ,
Who says he’s still here then? Come on now, you know we traded for better trade bait when we got him as well. I’m not saying he will be traded for sure, but the possibility is there. He’s got better trade value than Claxton, Law, and Flip had altogether.
And I’m not arguing that we didn’t get a good product from Flip for the money. We did.
cp
September 25th, 2009
9:44 pm
lol reggie. no he didn’t. It was crazy because you just knew Flip was going to take that shot, he was not going to pass that ball regardless of who was open.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:48 pm
CP: It was kind of frustrating but everything else he did overshadowed that. I think I may recall him making one at a Raptors game I went to.
Sautee
September 25th, 2009
9:59 pm
ATCQ,
about this: “Um Joe may not be a “superstar” but he is the 3rd best SG in the game until further notice”
Or at least until Ginobili gets fully healthy. JJ’s never had the opportunity to take over a Finals game like Manu. MG gets a LOT of credit for that from me.
Maybe one day………..
JJ IS up there near the top of SGs though. And I’d put Brandon Roy in that discussion as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:00 pm
Tribe ,
Are you serious? A coach killer? Dude has played for two coaches that need no help with the killing, they can do it all by themselves. Craw is not why Skiles got let go. He got let go because Paxson was an idiot, and because Paxson decided Skiles’ wasn’t the man to get those young fellas to the next level. Mostly because Paxson was an idiot.
Craw didn’t get Isaiah Thomas fired either. A “staffer” did. Or should I say an moonlighting “escort” wannabe…
And Nellie? He’s still got a job, despite the fact that he’s a nutcase and runs the whole organization from the sideline.
Coach killer my ass.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:03 pm
The only buzzer shot I remember Flip messing up was the one where JJ had the ball the full length of the court, charged to the basket, then turned, did a one-and-a-half gainer with a piourette twist (or however the hell you spell that), turned around like that chick in the exorcist, and flung the ball towards Flip…who happened to be behind him, and was clearly not expecting the ball to come back to him.
I don’t blame Flip for missing the shot, is all I can say.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:04 pm
If you could call it a shot. It was more like, “there goes JJ, oh crap, what is the ball doing in my hands?!”
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:09 pm
Hahahah! JJ crapped his pants when he saw Birdman and K-Mart just waiting for him to put it up lol.
Flips missed some, he’s made some, Other than JJ I wouldn’t have anyone else taking those one-on-one end of quater shots last season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
Big Ray: I’m not saying he messed up on the buzzer shots but every time it was either Flip or JJ iso and Flip would miss it every time. It was probably more of a result from the coaching and play calling than Flip trying to heave one up with a guy in his face. I do remember that play you mentioned, what game was that?
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
True that. I admired Flip’s fearlessness. I knew dude was getting a job somewhere.
As for the logjam at SG in Charlotte, I wouldn’t expect it to stay that way. Somebody is moving, and it will be THIS season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:14 pm
ahh, the Nuggets game! That was a frustrating game.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:15 pm
Reggie ,
I can’t remember exactly which game it was, but I had fun describing it.
Sorry, but watching the replays in slow-mo was entertaining. It was just a play that Flip was involved in that stuck out to me.
I’m not hatin’ on your post at all. Flip had the greenlight to shoot, not pass. And while people will talk about shooting percentages, Flip’s are “okay.” He got a lot of charges called on him, because he would put his head down. But like many have said, he was the only other guy who would just go and take it (Bibby would, but his shooting went down in the second half of the season).
I think one of his absolute best money moves was when he would fake the shot or jab step, then come in about 2-4 feet inside the 3-point arc and shoot it. Money, damn near every time.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:16 pm
Yeah it was. And of course we all were at it, hammer and tongs about what JJ should/should not have done, and everything.
You could tell who the diehard JJ supporters were, lol!
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:17 pm
I loved Flip too. That guy was just great for us. A great signing by Sund last year.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
Ray: Yeah I remember that game clearly now. That night on the blog was pretty fun. Good ole’ Mark talking about how JJ sucked and isn’t worth anything and then calling us homers because we support the hawks and actually like them. It will be starting all up again real soon.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
We were in Denver(febuary after the all-star break during that long west-coast stretch), Mike Bibby(flu) AND J-Smoove(New Baby) didn’t play. We were down the whole game and came back(in typical Hawks fashon) to almost steal a win at the end.
I replayed those final seconds over and over since I try to tape most of the games….
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:28 pm
Oh, and Marvin had 31pts…
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:38 pm
Ariose ,
….don’t tell Rod….
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:43 pm
Rod thinks Marvin has no offensive potential at all. I tried to explain to him but he would never listen. Don’t forget about his long lost brother; Sam from Da Swats who ironically has the same writing style as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
11:00 pm
Come now Reggie , the man is not here to defend himself. Hee hee hee…
Yes, one must always be careful about writing styles. Especially if one makes very similar criticisms as other personas do…
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
11:06 pm
OH no….we wouldn’t want HIM to know about this! He’ll probably say the refs spotted Marv 15 points
kj
September 25th, 2009
11:22 pm
Man am I late? gotta get back home earlier, Can’t wait for another hawks season. It’s shaping up to be one spectacular ride. I thin kwe got a legitamate shot at the division this year. orlando with vinsanity is good but I don’t think vc will be able to cause the match up problems hedo did last year, plus I can’t recall if he has hedo’s stoke either for that matter. If al ho can bang with the new superman and get him under control I think we match up just as good if not better at every other slot. I don’t see anyone else as a threat to us. maybe miami? maybe. what do you guys think?
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:51 pm
We should have brought back flip period.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
rms
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
Why should we care if any of these guys make the team. They will just be playing mop up duty without any significant impact on the team whatsoever. We had this same conversation last year with Othello Hunter and Mario West. Who cares…. I am concerned about the starters and the main guys coming off the bench not the 13th man on the end of the pine that rarely ever plays!!!
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
We will miss flip wish him well.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
1:45 am
It is good to recap the season and see how good flip did. Which he did great as a backup. But I remember the playoffs when 3 starters was hurt and we needed flip to have a hugh night with the lights on and guess what he didnt. I will take crawford a guy who has scored 50 points in some games in that spot. at least you have a punchers chance. Thats why he is starter material along with him being 2 inches taller. And we have him as our 6th man. You guys will forget all about flip when you see crawford play. Then you will be saying how good rick sund is. Sekou is right GO Hawks
Coach D
September 26th, 2009
4:25 am
Anyone willing to bet that Flip won’t get at least 20 in the majority of games he plays against the Hawks? That’s how that cat works. We’ll lose at least 2 of the games against Charlotte on behalf of Flip going on one of his patented scoring binges.
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
5:48 am
I don’t know about all that. Flip can dang sure score, but he played in 80 games last year. In 11 of those he scored 20 points or more. Patented scoring binges? And we’re going to lose to Charlotte because of Flip? Alrighty then.
GT Falcon
September 26th, 2009
7:42 am
Good luck Flip. I was a big fan.
greg
September 26th, 2009
7:43 am
Never thought he was that good. Just nice role player. Move on and who cares.
Clyde
September 26th, 2009
7:50 am
FLIP you will be missed. He stayed healthy and played hard.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
7:56 am
We needed that patented scoring binge against clev but we didnt get it. So we or anyone else is not afraid of flip. Thats why it took this long for someone to sign him. we will be saying it is good how we upgraded over flip this year thanks rick
RA
September 26th, 2009
8:03 am
First off, thank you Flip. Atlanta doesn’t do what they did last year without you. Secondly, Charlotte just got better, how much better remains to be seen. Now, I’ll be honest, if Flip were going to a team like Orlando or Cleveland or even Boston, I’d be worried about what he could help them do to us. In Charlotte though, I still think that if Atlanta comes to play, they’ll beat them, even with Flip. Here’s the thing, the elite teams in the game will beat the teams that they’re suppose to beat, bottom line. What Atlanta is going to have to establish, and they need to do this early on, is whether they are an elite team that’s going to take care of business or a talented group of overacheivers who could play up big or disappear altogether.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
8:17 am
We are already worried about what the big three can do to us flip or with out flip those teams are deep. he would not get big minutes on those teams.
MissingNique
September 26th, 2009
8:47 am
You would never know how good Flip could have been because they didn’t play him enough just like Anthony Johnson when we had him. Another team didn’t play him last year and it cost them in the playoffs. Mo is a must probably one lof the best hustler utility players in the league if they will let him get a few more minutes. The NBA is just like the NFL they buy into who they think should be good instaed of who actually is, And if Josh Smith doesn’t play hard every night it wont matter…Thanks for the hustle Flip!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:01 am
I do understand what you are saying But we did play him enough in the clev series and he did not make any difference that is the most recent games played. we really needed him and josh did show up in all 4. Flip is a veteran backup I would have loved him back but he is not a game changer or he would be back.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:04 am
oh well time for camp we have a much better team this year so lets move on
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:14 am
flip was instrumental and vital to the success of the hawks last year. if he had flopped as many other free agents have or brought the game of say a t lue this team would have been stuck at the 9th spot looking in is my guess. if he had been injured even we would have been hamstrung for sure because there was nothing on the bench and we had missed already on van wafer along with just about every other FA. i will stand and applaud him every time he comes on the floor this year in someone else’s uniform.
with that said flip doesnt hold a candle to crawford who is said to be a liability on defense but has never played for a defensive minded coach. he gets his chance soon and i cant friggin wait to see him and the rest on the floor.
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:15 am
durn did alabama already lose? clyde didnt you say you wouldnt be around until then?
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
9:47 am
Paul Pierce is at it again: Paul Pierce has declared the Celtics the “team to beat” this season. It’s funny how they’re the team to beat when the Lakers has the title. What’s your take, who do you feel is the team to beat.
Doug
September 26th, 2009
10:04 am
The Hawks season is toast because they did not sign a career back-up who apparently, unbeknownst to most, is feared throughout the league! This “fearless assasin” was left on the market for five months…while the stupid NBA execs dithered…until …finally he is snatched up at the last minute by Charlotte for….1.9 million!!!!! And Charlotte is now the presumptive favorite in the East.
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
10:08 am
Because of Flip, now the Bobcats are the team to beat? I think that is bull, don’t get me wrong he’s a great player, but they’re not going to finals because of him. I know that Crawford and Teague will suprise a lot of us this year. I’m not really concern with all the chatter that going on about Flip. I do hope Flip the best, but not against the Hawks. It’s On: Go Hawks!
jhan
September 26th, 2009
10:18 am
Flip was one of my favorites players on this team last year. He did a fantastic job coming off the bench. Now he’s gone to Charlotte. Next year he’ll be trying to catch on with a different team. Same story for the next 5 years until he retires. Nice career bench player. I’m not going to lose any sleep over him being gone. Thanks Flip.
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
10:54 am
Yo Sekou, great write-up as always man. But quick question.. I heard there were talks of signing Carlos Arroyo.. No diss to the all the other guards vying for the 13th and 14th spots (big shout out to the homie, Mario West), but you couldn’t have a better 4th or 5th guard on ur team than this guy. Any truth to the rumors?
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
11:01 am
And yes i agree A Tribe Called Quest, Joe is the third best SG in the game hands down.. don’t sleep
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
11:19 am
Whatever, Ray.
The bottom line is Sekou downplayed everything Flip did for us, taking subtle shots like he was not the best bench player last year. I am hoping Crawford earns his 10 mill paycheck. And yes Acie and Speedy did suck. There’s no denying that
Yung A$E
September 26th, 2009
11:47 am
Flip was a major part in our sucess but if we kept flip i feel that wouldve made chemistry and minutes fall apart with crawford. Crawford is a animal on his a games and im jus glad hes in a hawks uniform. Also we need to sign siller and sims we must. EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!
Headed to Philadelphia
September 26th, 2009
11:55 am
It has been proposed that all-star Joe Johnson will be traded to the 76ers for Thaddes Young and Sammy Dalembert. The Hawks have been interested in dalembert in the past and the 76ers need a SG that can score and remember Joe Johnson is in his last year of his contract so that makes this trade likely to happen. With Johnson turning 28, chances are we’ve seen the best he has to offer so is time the hawks move in a new direction!
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
11:56 am
For me it’s all about the Hawks. I’m hoping Jamal Crawford makes us forget Flip, cause if he doesn’t……………….! Now as far as the last few spots on the roster go, I figure why not let the hype man Mario fill this spot since this person doesn’t see much playing time anyway. But on the other hand Othello sounded great, Siler could add more beef, and Frank Robinson I remember him playing great in the last summer league the Hawks held. The other guys I really don’t know. Let’s just say this, whichever player management thinks will help the Hawks stay on progress to becoming contenders and ultimately champs then I’m wit it!
All about the Hawks’ progress! 2010 SE Division Champs! Make it do what it do Hawks!
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:05 pm
Tribe,
If Flip was such a stud, how come he didn’t get signed until September, and even then only got the veteran’s minimum despite the fact that he was unrestricted?
Flip is what he is – a solid role player who can give you bursts of scoring off the bench. Nothing more, nothing less. He was good but replaceable. And the fact that you’re still hung up on Crawford’s salary shows that you still don’t get the point Ray was trying to make. So I’ll put it another way. Josh is making close to $11M this coming year. Tim Duncan is making just over $22M. Is Duncan still twice as good as Josh? If not, is Duncan overpaid? Next year Josh will be making $11.6M and Leon Powe will be making $916k. Assuming Powe is healthy, will Josh be overpaid? Will he be 13 times as good as Powe? So will he be “worth” his $11.6M price tag?
This is why it makes NO sense to talk about a player as “overpaid” or “underpaid” without looking at the broader context.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:07 pm
Someone is busy making sh!t up. JJ for Dalembert and Young? Really? Neither of those guys would start on the team we currently have.