Flip’s gone, time for camp
Flip Murray and Mike Woodson had a great year together, but that's history now. Murray has moved on to Charlotte and the Hawks are on the eve of training camp with a different mix of players.
HAWKSVILLE – One last time, Flip Murray is gone.
It’s over. And it’s official.
Take one last good look at him in his Hawks uniform (above next to Hawks coach Mike Woodson) and then move on.
Charlotte’s gain is the Hawks’ loss, until you scan the recently released training camp roster and realize that guys that the man replacing Flip as the Hawks’ third guard is a player that by any measure is a far better player. Whether or not he’s a better fit on this team remains to be seen. But anyone making the argument for Flip over Jamal Crawford needs to clean the lenses on their BlueBlockers.
And don’t get me wrong, I think was extremely valuable to the Hawks’ cause last season. He was a great fit at the perfect time for a team that desperately needed a tough guy with a no-nonsense attitude coming off the bench to help energize their second unit. But this idea that Flip won games for the Hawks last season is make believe.
It never happened.
Would I have love to see Flip remain in a Hawks uniform? Sure. That would have been ideal. But him moving on to a one-year deal with the Bobcats doesn’t shift the balance of power in the Southeast Division either.
Now there are plenty of people within the Hawks organization that disagree with me. They’ve been arguing me down all summer about Flip. They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.
In fact, I’d argue that Mo Evans was every bit as crucial to the Hawks’ 47-win season of a year ago. He was actually pressed into service as a starter (for an injured Marvin Williams (and the Hawks won roughly 67 percent of the games in which Evans started). Flip was never called upon to shoulder the load of say a Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson for an extended stretch of the season.
I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …
TRAINING CAMPERS
The training camp roster stands at 20 players, right at the number expected. Can’t say that there are any surprise names on the list either. You know the regulars, the guys already under guaranteed contracts for this season. What deserves further scrutiny is the eight players on the training camp roster that are looking for work. A brief breakdown of each guy and the initial outlook of his chances of securing that 13th roster spot (and perhaps the 14th if someone makes a definitive case for sticking around):
JUAN DIXON – The internal concerns about the Hawks’ point guard depth is reflected in the number of veteran guards on the camp roster, highlighted by this veteran guard. Dixon has never carved a niche for himself as a starting point guard but he’s been a factor on several teams as a situational combo guard. He’ll need a huge showing in camp to snag a roster spot.
OTHELLO HUNTER — Having already made the team this way a year ago, Hunter knows the odds are stacked against him sticking this year. The Hawks are deeper in the frontcourt and they’re not as likely to keep a developmental player on the roster if they’re only going to keep 13 players. Still, Hunter has improved as much anyone on the roster from this time a year ago. And with a strong camp, he could force the Hawks to consider keeping him.
AARON MILES – Miles made an appearance on the Hawks’ practice court during the workout season before the 2005 draft but has been basically a pro basketball journeyman since then. He’s a competitor and the kind of guy that always raises the meter defensively but he would appear to be an extreme long-shot to be here beyond the end of camp.
FRANK ROBINSON – One of the more intriguing players you’ll see in camp, Robinson continues to impress with his all-around skill (think a more skilled offensive player with Mario West-like energy). If you see him in action on a daily basis you keep asking yourself, “why isn’t this guy on someone’s roster?” Then you remember his problem is like most guys his size that play his position, they’d have to face the likes of Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Joe Johnson on a nightly basis in the league. But keep an eye on Mr. Robinson. He’ll turn some heads.
GARRET SILER – Augusta’s Finest is looking svelte these days, somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds or so, per one of my spies. He’s going to make you take notice because he’s usually going to be the biggest man in the room or on the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s not skilled, because he is. And that doesn’t mean the Hawks aren’t serious about gauging his long-term potential, because they are. Training camp and the preseason schedule will be the true test for Siler. If he proves he can hold up against top-flight competition over the course of the next month it’ll be hard to send him packing.
COURTNEY SIMS – I’m giving Sims the early nod as the favorite for the MOST SURPRISING CAMPER award. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he spent undergrad in Ann Arbor toiling for the Michigan basketball program. Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has matured tremendously since college. His frame (6-11 and 240 pounds) is much sturdier now and he has a face-up game that stretches beyond the 3-point line (if needed). I want to see how he deals with Al Horford and Josh Smith on a daily basis in camp.
MARIO WEST – If folks thought West was fighting for his life to make the roster the last two years, you’d be wise to pop some popcorn for the show I expect him to put on this time around. No one outworks the maniacal former Georgia Tech standout. While he’s been nursing some nagging injuries in recent weeks, there’s no doubt he’ll crank up the energy next week. The sticking point for West, however, is his salary number. As a rookie and second year player, with a salary under $1 million, West was a fantastic investment. Three years in, though, and his roughly $1 million price tag seems a bit high (to some) for a player that you know probably won’t play much unless there are injury catastrophes in the backcourt.
MIKE WILKS – Like Dixon, Wilks looks more like veteran point guard insurance. And he’s had stints with several teams that proved he could be a legitimate NBA contributor. But the idea of another 6-foot (or thereabouts) point guard on a team that already boasts Bibby and promising rookie Jeff Teague just doesn’t add up. Barring an absolutely stunning performance in camp, I have a hard time justifying a spot for Wilks or any other undersized point guard.
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287 comments Add your comment
JSS
September 25th, 2009
6:33 pm
Interesting takes… Finally time for all to put up or be gone… Oh, I went to EMU by the way… We’ll have to trade Washtenaw war stories one day… Don’t bring up last week’s game…
ILL-logical
September 25th, 2009
6:35 pm
Best wishes to Mr. Murray in his newest job. $2mill ain’t bad in any economy.But the show must go on.
And just as you predicted-no Stackhouse. The new politics of the Hawks are going to be very interesting; no more babys to sit and run over, there a number of grown men on the roster,albeit lacking in starter skills but there has to be another tone now from the staff.
Flip is just a baller; no fancy D1 hype or media generated personna. His skills keep him in the league but sometimes you have to wonder if the NBA has just a little to much show biz about itself.
Gilley
September 25th, 2009
6:39 pm
I thought Stackhouse was coming into camp???
ToeKnee
September 25th, 2009
6:42 pm
Great article sekou. Just a little puzzled about when you say that Flip’s absence will have the same impact as Josh Childress’? Could you clarify your opinion of those players and their impact on the Hawks when they left(or are leaving now I should say)? Are you saying Childress’ departure did not impact the team because we won more games, or are you saying that Childress leaving made a big difference as will flip’s departure?
JB
September 25th, 2009
6:49 pm
Sekou, thanks for the update. I love the acquisitions from the summer and believe that one of these guys could help fill out the roster (I’d love to see big Garret on the team). BTW, you may want to proof one more time before pressing “enter”. But don’t worry about it, we’re all working pretty hard these days and the words seem to run together.
John
September 25th, 2009
6:50 pm
ToeKnee, I’m going to take a stab here and say that Sekou meant that Flip’s departure will have the same effect as Childress’, as in little to none.
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
7:11 pm
That’s just brutal to have 1 spot and 8 guys competing, and 2 spots isn’t much better. My guess is that we can write off Miles, Dixon, Wilks, and (sorry Sekou) Robinson.
So assuming I’m right about that, that leaves Hunter, Siler, Sims, and Rio. My guess is that they actually do end up keeping two of the guys and taking the roster, and it’ll be West and one other. I honestly would be surprised if Siler made the cut, considering that Siler is totally unsuited for any position but center and that we now have 5 guys under contract capable of playing minutes at center (Horford, Zaza, Collins, Joe Smith, and RandMo), four of whom could be rotation players at center on most teams (all but RandMo). Sims has a bit of a better shot since he can play some PF too, but I still would be a little surprised if we burned another roster spot on a big man.
And Sekou – I’m pretty sure that from an “out of pocket” standpoint, Mario costs the same as Hunter or Robinson or Siler would because of the reimbursement rules regarding players signed to minimum-salary deals.
And is my bias towards Hunter and Rio coloring my analysis? I hope not, but probably…
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
*keeping two of the guys taking the roster to 14
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
No problem ToeKnee,
What I’m saying is that no matter how much we might love a guy (y’all know Chil is one of my all-time favorite cats), we can all be replaced. Sometimes the blow is greater. But when it’s a reserve player, as in someone whose contribution is usually a variable anyway, replacing him is even easier than it is someone who you rely on for a starter’s contribution.
I say that only because I was beating the same drum about Chil’s before last season and shut up when I realized that even though he’s my guy, this team moved on with the guys that replaced him. Same thing goes for Flip and anybody else.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
“I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …”
Wow, you must not have loved the Philly baller. While Flip never passed and was selfish with end of quarter shots (HE NEVER PASSED IT), dude was a sick player. he was one of the first guards on this team in years who fearlessly drove to the hoop
Flappin' Hawk
September 25th, 2009
7:22 pm
Hope we all give Flip a standing O when he comes to town next season. He really was the guts of the team last year. Was shocked when Sekou said :
“They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.”
I know you were at the games (so was I) but your head musta been in the popcorn if you “never witnessed that sort of impact”.
I’ve been watching this team since the early 70s. He gave us an in-your-face aggressive style that I have never seen any Hawk player exhibit. He may not have hit every shot or been the world’s most eloquent interview, but he had an on-the-court swagger that made the Hawks a better team last year. Key word…last year.
No argument Teague and Crawford made Flip expendable this year. Still hats off and thanks to Flip for last year.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:23 pm
Let’s not forget that Flip cost us nothing last year. He made a little more last year than Mario would make on the QO this year — LOL. One the other hand, Crawford will cost 5x as much as Flip this year. Will he be much better? Yes, but 5x as much in salary? Idk
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
7:26 pm
“I’ve been watching this team since the early 70s. He gave us an in-your-face aggressive style that I have never seen any Hawk player exhibit. He may not have hit every shot or been the world’s most eloquent interview, but he had an on-the-court swagger that made the Hawks a better team last year. Key word…last year.”
Amen to that. Flip drove to the basket without fear. Name one guard who you have all seen do that in the last 6 years since Jason Terry was here…Acie Law? Cedric Bozeman?
Stating the Obvious
September 25th, 2009
7:27 pm
Yeah, because we just kicked ass when Jason Terry was in town…
Samuel
September 25th, 2009
7:34 pm
Absolutely right. Flip did account for much needed scoring when others(JJ,Bibby ect) weren’t getting it done. Crawford can do the same thing.
To me, we have to go with Siler and Sims. The two bigs we signed this offseason(Smith and Collins) are basically one year rentals. They’ll be moving on and moving out. I believe Sims and Siler can develop into serious players. It’s not really a gamble to sign them to a 1 year deal.
I’m just not feeling Mario this year. We got Mo for that roll this year. Why waste a spot. We don’t really need any filler PGs either. We have 4 guys(Bibby,Teague,crawford and JJ) who can play PG in spots. Why waste a roster spot on a lifetime scrubb like Dixon.
To me the choice is easy. Siler and Sims.
UGA
September 25th, 2009
7:35 pm
Sekou,
Should we have another SF on our training camp roster? Gerald Green?
And what if Sims and Siler our perform Randolph Morris? Can we release Morris and sign these 2 guys?
Thanks!
UGA
September 25th, 2009
7:36 pm
I meant out perform.
Blast
September 25th, 2009
7:52 pm
Whew! Flip finally got a job!
Yes it is brutal, Niremetal. 8 men fighting for one or two slots. NBA, baby! Mario West might not make the cut this time around.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
I think it’s more wide open than you think Nire. And there’s no guarantee that any of these eight guys remains on the roster beyond training camp. We’ll have to wait and see how it plays out.
Tony
September 25th, 2009
7:56 pm
Sekou,
I’m sorry to tell you this bro but DO NOT put Lebron and D-Wade or even the champ Kobe B. in the same sentence, let alone the same room, with Joe Johnson. HE IS NOT A SUPERSTAR. You and others on this blog mention him as a superstar, i’m sorry he’s not. First of all Josh is our best player. So all you haters can get a life. Yeah that’s right. J-Smoove is our best player.
HOLLA ATCHA BOY. ATL’s Finest. Go hawks.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
8:06 pm
Wow. Flip for President, huh? Ha. Listen, I’ll state once again that I not only loved Flip’s game but I would have loved for the Hawks to be able to keep him. All I’m saying is there is life after Flip.
Sekou Smith
September 25th, 2009
8:11 pm
Man, I’m taking licks from every direction tonight around here. I’d have been better off going to the club with my 80s gear on and trying to get some numbers. Ha. I hear you Tony, but the point I was making re: Kobe, Wade and Joe in regards to Frank Robinson was that he’s going to have to guard elite shooting guards, guys that everybody in the league has a hard time dealing with. And If there are 10 elite shooting guards in the league and Kobe and DWade are at the top, Joe is somewhere on that list.
FREDRICK STEELE
September 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
Enter your comments here GUYS FLIP WAS A VALUABLE PART OF THE HAWKS. I PREFER FLIP TO MAURICE EVANS. AT LEAST FLIP CAN DRIBBLE. MAURICE EVANS CAN’T BREAK DOWN A DEFENDER BY DRIBBLING. I LOVED FLIP’S GAME. HE WASN’T AFRAID TO TAKE A SHOT AND HE WAS A GOOD DEFENDER. LET’S GET THIS GUY BACK SOON. TRADE MO EVANS
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
Great blog, Sekou .
I think that describes Flip’s impact to a “T”. Loved the guy, and hope he does well in Charlotte.
I can see us keeping another big man, despite the fact that we have several. As Samuel posted, Collins and Smith are 1 year deal guys. Something tells me that neither guy will be here next year. If both parties wanted that (front office and the players themselves), they would have signed longer contracts. As it is, it only takes one side to not want a longer deal, for it not to happen.
I still have hopes for Siler, but wouldn’t ignore Sims either. And Hunter is still my boy. Tough call.
‘Rio might be out of the mix this time, but I hope he can sign on elsewhere if not here. And as it is, I wouldn’t be crushed if he left. Not that I want him outta here per se, but things are changing.
It will be interesting to see how Woody approaches camp, and gets these guys in the groove for trying to make that step up. Not that we’ll get to see this for ourselves (no access to camp), but it will be interesting all the same. I think Woody is really looking forward to camp and what not, this year.
niremetal
September 25th, 2009
8:31 pm
If we cut Rio, he will turn up on the Spurs or Jazz roster at some point in the near-to-mid-term future. You heard it here first…
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 25th, 2009
8:33 pm
i was banging the drum for flip all off-season, so i hate to see him go. no question that there are guys as, or more, talented then him (for what he does as an off-the-bench scorer) but dude never got rattled. but with the other additions, the team is obviously better even without him.
someone mentioned above about another three (where’s aroise and his gerald green mantra?) because if history is any indicator, the team will have to go a stretch without marvin and/or josh or both.
hard to believe we’re only a month and change away from the important season at lease fifteen years.
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 25th, 2009
8:34 pm
nire – couldn’t agree more on ‘rio.
King Beef
September 25th, 2009
8:34 pm
Glad to see Flip’s family is still on the blog. Guts of the team. No one but his family would of said that. It is funny how much respect some of you guys give someone when they are gone. Chill was the heart of the team. Now, Flip was the guts. Flip is a journeyman no more no less. Best of luck to him, the Hawks will be fine. Flip shot 34% in the playoffs. Stop making him a hero.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:43 pm
Tribe ,
Not yelling at you, but this whole business about Crawford and his salary versus Flip’s appears to remain convoluted. We traded Acie and Claxton’s 8+ million dollar a year salaries for Crawford’s 10 million a year salary. And we let Flip go on his way. So if anything, we are now paying 10 million for a guy who can score 20 any given night, whereas we were paying close to 12 million for three guys, two of whom were giving us next to nothing.
Why are we still comparing salaries between Flip and Crawford? If we’re going to use salaries as a barometer, then should JJ be 8x as good as Flip? Because he ain’t …
As Sekou mentioned, we still don’t know if Crawford is as good or better a FIT for this team, but he’s clearly a better player. Not only that, but I’d go so far as to say that bringing Crawford here was not for the purposes of replacing Flip.
I will echo Sautee and say that Crawford not only replaces Flip, but he was JJ and Bibby insurance. Bibby was not a guaranteed re-sign. And JJ hasn’t signed his contract yet. A guy who has proven he can score at a high rate when called upon? Not bad insurance in case things go sideways. Is that the situation we want? Hell no, but better preparation than we had is important. And Sund did just that.
Now let’s see if it works.
Shameless Plug Alert
September 25th, 2009
8:45 pm
…. The Hawks Fan Nest is live….
Shameless Plug Alert
September 25th, 2009
8:46 pm
Hawks Fan Nest Blog that is…
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
8:47 pm
Don’t Worry Sekou, I gotcha’ back
Lol, Flip is getting so much love, I don’t even feel the need to comment
About Stack not being on the Training Camp roster: That still doesnt rule him out. He’s a career 18ppg scorer, why would he sign a non-gaurenteed contract just to attend someones camp? If the camp invites turn out to be scrubtacular and ‘Rio cant get away from that inury, Mr.Stack will probably be getting a call……from somebody. Denver and CLE are still looking.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
8:48 pm
ChuckW ,
Yeah I didn’t want to see him go, either. I think the drafting of Jeff Teague pretty much sealed that deal though. After all, that came after the trade for Crawford. I want to see Mario get a gig somewhere else regardless, if he isn’t kept on here.
I’d like to see another three added as well, but I think we’re going to have to settle for a combo forward. Hunter may fit this description. Very interested in whether or not Sims’ shooting range helps him make the cut.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
Ray, it’s not on the main Hawks page yet. Hurry and post the link so I can claim my rightful place as 1st!!!
cp
September 25th, 2009
8:52 pm
I would like to see Siler and Hunter make the team. Mario cant shoot nor dribble and we have Mo already so I see no need for Mario. Would have been nice to get Gerald Green in the mix but I guess we don’t have a spot for him. I think the Bobcats can sneak in the playoffs this year. They had a good chance last season but played terrible down the stretch.
ToeKnee
September 25th, 2009
8:52 pm
Thanks, that’s why I was confused because I knew how much you liked Chills, on and off the court. I just don’t know how many minutes are even left for any of these guys with the depth we finally have. I think we all hope that Woodson will improve on his substitution skills, but do you really see any of these guys doing anything more than push the main crew in practice? I think that’s a big reason Woodson likes Mario so much, because he pushes the guys in practice.
Harpie
September 25th, 2009
8:54 pm
Man, what team were you watching? Flip was huge for the Hawks last season!
Ramon
September 25th, 2009
8:59 pm
I say keep Siler and Sims. There are more unemployed swing positions who can score, than their are unemployed skilled big men who have potential and size (you can’t coach that). I would love to keep West on the inactive list as well. I still feel you need a hustle guy on the squad. Another thing is, having Sims makes Morris expendable for cash.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
9:04 pm
Chuck!!!,
GERLAD GREEN!!!! ($800K!!!)
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
9:04 pm
Ariose ,
Heh heh, sorry but you were usurped. There are 3 or 4 posts there already…post the link in a second, if I can figure this out. One way to get there is to put your mouse cursor on the “Sports” icon, then go over to the right and click on “other blogs.” When they come up, look for “Hawks Fan Nest.” Now lemme try this link:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog/
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:13 pm
Big Ray,
J Craw will hurt us in FA 2010. Do you not know this? Flip made absolute garbage money and was money for us last year. In terms of salaries, you go with Flip anyday.
That being said, I am excited as hell about Crawford. Thinking about this team gives me the chills in a good way.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
9:14 pm
Thanks Ray. LOL…
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:15 pm
Um Joe may not be a “superstar” but he is the 3rd best SG in the game until further notice
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:17 pm
No point getting a player that only plays PG for the roster spot. Get Mario or a defensive SG/SF who can shoot 3’s (something Rio CANT do)
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:18 pm
Well folks after a season of Braves blogging, it is getting near the time to jump on here again. I was thinking I would already start to but the Braves are making it interesting again.
Good to be back.
Ramon
September 25th, 2009
9:20 pm
ATCQ, think about this, Crawford can actually help us in free agency next season. As he can be a great sign and trade chip for another team who doesn’t want to lose their player for nothing. When Sund is on the phone talking to other GMs about their players, do you think they’d rather hear Flip’s name or Crawford’s name?
A Tribe Called Quest
September 25th, 2009
9:35 pm
Ramon, probably Flip’s. Crawford is notoriously known as a coach killer, has never made the playoffs. I am hoping he changes this year and we go far. Flip is a very underrated player. Teams know he is a killer but won’t sign him.
Beats me
The Truth
September 25th, 2009
9:35 pm
Sorry Sekou, I can’t continue to ride this train of comparing Flip to Crawford anymore. I have nothing but good memories of Flip as a Hawk. Why don’t we just let the good memories rest in peace?
As I previously posted, I can’t believe we invite 5 PGs and not get one out of the pile as a 3rd PG. Since we have two 1-year vets in the rotation, I hope we strongly consider keeping Siler and Sims in our long range plans since bigs are hard to come by.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:38 pm
The only bad memories I have of Flip was his buzzer shots. Did he ever make one?
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
9:44 pm
Tribe ,
Who says he’s still here then? Come on now, you know we traded for better trade bait when we got him as well. I’m not saying he will be traded for sure, but the possibility is there. He’s got better trade value than Claxton, Law, and Flip had altogether.
And I’m not arguing that we didn’t get a good product from Flip for the money. We did.
cp
September 25th, 2009
9:44 pm
lol reggie. no he didn’t. It was crazy because you just knew Flip was going to take that shot, he was not going to pass that ball regardless of who was open.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:48 pm
CP: It was kind of frustrating but everything else he did overshadowed that. I think I may recall him making one at a Raptors game I went to.
Sautee
September 25th, 2009
9:59 pm
ATCQ,
about this: “Um Joe may not be a “superstar” but he is the 3rd best SG in the game until further notice”
Or at least until Ginobili gets fully healthy. JJ’s never had the opportunity to take over a Finals game like Manu. MG gets a LOT of credit for that from me.
Maybe one day………..
JJ IS up there near the top of SGs though. And I’d put Brandon Roy in that discussion as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:00 pm
Tribe ,
Are you serious? A coach killer? Dude has played for two coaches that need no help with the killing, they can do it all by themselves. Craw is not why Skiles got let go. He got let go because Paxson was an idiot, and because Paxson decided Skiles’ wasn’t the man to get those young fellas to the next level. Mostly because Paxson was an idiot.
Craw didn’t get Isaiah Thomas fired either. A “staffer” did. Or should I say an moonlighting “escort” wannabe…
And Nellie? He’s still got a job, despite the fact that he’s a nutcase and runs the whole organization from the sideline.
Coach killer my ass.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:03 pm
The only buzzer shot I remember Flip messing up was the one where JJ had the ball the full length of the court, charged to the basket, then turned, did a one-and-a-half gainer with a piourette twist (or however the hell you spell that), turned around like that chick in the exorcist, and flung the ball towards Flip…who happened to be behind him, and was clearly not expecting the ball to come back to him.
I don’t blame Flip for missing the shot, is all I can say.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:04 pm
If you could call it a shot. It was more like, “there goes JJ, oh crap, what is the ball doing in my hands?!”
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:09 pm
Hahahah! JJ crapped his pants when he saw Birdman and K-Mart just waiting for him to put it up lol.
Flips missed some, he’s made some, Other than JJ I wouldn’t have anyone else taking those one-on-one end of quater shots last season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
Big Ray: I’m not saying he messed up on the buzzer shots but every time it was either Flip or JJ iso and Flip would miss it every time. It was probably more of a result from the coaching and play calling than Flip trying to heave one up with a guy in his face. I do remember that play you mentioned, what game was that?
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
True that. I admired Flip’s fearlessness. I knew dude was getting a job somewhere.
As for the logjam at SG in Charlotte, I wouldn’t expect it to stay that way. Somebody is moving, and it will be THIS season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:14 pm
ahh, the Nuggets game! That was a frustrating game.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:15 pm
Reggie ,
I can’t remember exactly which game it was, but I had fun describing it.
Sorry, but watching the replays in slow-mo was entertaining. It was just a play that Flip was involved in that stuck out to me.
I’m not hatin’ on your post at all. Flip had the greenlight to shoot, not pass. And while people will talk about shooting percentages, Flip’s are “okay.” He got a lot of charges called on him, because he would put his head down. But like many have said, he was the only other guy who would just go and take it (Bibby would, but his shooting went down in the second half of the season).
I think one of his absolute best money moves was when he would fake the shot or jab step, then come in about 2-4 feet inside the 3-point arc and shoot it. Money, damn near every time.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:16 pm
Yeah it was. And of course we all were at it, hammer and tongs about what JJ should/should not have done, and everything.
You could tell who the diehard JJ supporters were, lol!
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:17 pm
I loved Flip too. That guy was just great for us. A great signing by Sund last year.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
Ray: Yeah I remember that game clearly now. That night on the blog was pretty fun. Good ole’ Mark talking about how JJ sucked and isn’t worth anything and then calling us homers because we support the hawks and actually like them. It will be starting all up again real soon.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
We were in Denver(febuary after the all-star break during that long west-coast stretch), Mike Bibby(flu) AND J-Smoove(New Baby) didn’t play. We were down the whole game and came back(in typical Hawks fashon) to almost steal a win at the end.
I replayed those final seconds over and over since I try to tape most of the games….
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:28 pm
Oh, and Marvin had 31pts…
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:38 pm
Ariose ,
….don’t tell Rod….
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:43 pm
Rod thinks Marvin has no offensive potential at all. I tried to explain to him but he would never listen. Don’t forget about his long lost brother; Sam from Da Swats who ironically has the same writing style as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
11:00 pm
Come now Reggie , the man is not here to defend himself. Hee hee hee…
Yes, one must always be careful about writing styles. Especially if one makes very similar criticisms as other personas do…
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
11:06 pm
OH no….we wouldn’t want HIM to know about this! He’ll probably say the refs spotted Marv 15 points
kj
September 25th, 2009
11:22 pm
Man am I late? gotta get back home earlier, Can’t wait for another hawks season. It’s shaping up to be one spectacular ride. I thin kwe got a legitamate shot at the division this year. orlando with vinsanity is good but I don’t think vc will be able to cause the match up problems hedo did last year, plus I can’t recall if he has hedo’s stoke either for that matter. If al ho can bang with the new superman and get him under control I think we match up just as good if not better at every other slot. I don’t see anyone else as a threat to us. maybe miami? maybe. what do you guys think?
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:51 pm
We should have brought back flip period.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
rms
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
Why should we care if any of these guys make the team. They will just be playing mop up duty without any significant impact on the team whatsoever. We had this same conversation last year with Othello Hunter and Mario West. Who cares…. I am concerned about the starters and the main guys coming off the bench not the 13th man on the end of the pine that rarely ever plays!!!
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
We will miss flip wish him well.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
1:45 am
It is good to recap the season and see how good flip did. Which he did great as a backup. But I remember the playoffs when 3 starters was hurt and we needed flip to have a hugh night with the lights on and guess what he didnt. I will take crawford a guy who has scored 50 points in some games in that spot. at least you have a punchers chance. Thats why he is starter material along with him being 2 inches taller. And we have him as our 6th man. You guys will forget all about flip when you see crawford play. Then you will be saying how good rick sund is. Sekou is right GO Hawks
Coach D
September 26th, 2009
4:25 am
Anyone willing to bet that Flip won’t get at least 20 in the majority of games he plays against the Hawks? That’s how that cat works. We’ll lose at least 2 of the games against Charlotte on behalf of Flip going on one of his patented scoring binges.
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
5:48 am
I don’t know about all that. Flip can dang sure score, but he played in 80 games last year. In 11 of those he scored 20 points or more. Patented scoring binges? And we’re going to lose to Charlotte because of Flip? Alrighty then.
GT Falcon
September 26th, 2009
7:42 am
Good luck Flip. I was a big fan.
greg
September 26th, 2009
7:43 am
Never thought he was that good. Just nice role player. Move on and who cares.
Clyde
September 26th, 2009
7:50 am
FLIP you will be missed. He stayed healthy and played hard.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
7:56 am
We needed that patented scoring binge against clev but we didnt get it. So we or anyone else is not afraid of flip. Thats why it took this long for someone to sign him. we will be saying it is good how we upgraded over flip this year thanks rick
RA
September 26th, 2009
8:03 am
First off, thank you Flip. Atlanta doesn’t do what they did last year without you. Secondly, Charlotte just got better, how much better remains to be seen. Now, I’ll be honest, if Flip were going to a team like Orlando or Cleveland or even Boston, I’d be worried about what he could help them do to us. In Charlotte though, I still think that if Atlanta comes to play, they’ll beat them, even with Flip. Here’s the thing, the elite teams in the game will beat the teams that they’re suppose to beat, bottom line. What Atlanta is going to have to establish, and they need to do this early on, is whether they are an elite team that’s going to take care of business or a talented group of overacheivers who could play up big or disappear altogether.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
8:17 am
We are already worried about what the big three can do to us flip or with out flip those teams are deep. he would not get big minutes on those teams.
MissingNique
September 26th, 2009
8:47 am
You would never know how good Flip could have been because they didn’t play him enough just like Anthony Johnson when we had him. Another team didn’t play him last year and it cost them in the playoffs. Mo is a must probably one lof the best hustler utility players in the league if they will let him get a few more minutes. The NBA is just like the NFL they buy into who they think should be good instaed of who actually is, And if Josh Smith doesn’t play hard every night it wont matter…Thanks for the hustle Flip!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:01 am
I do understand what you are saying But we did play him enough in the clev series and he did not make any difference that is the most recent games played. we really needed him and josh did show up in all 4. Flip is a veteran backup I would have loved him back but he is not a game changer or he would be back.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:04 am
oh well time for camp we have a much better team this year so lets move on
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:14 am
flip was instrumental and vital to the success of the hawks last year. if he had flopped as many other free agents have or brought the game of say a t lue this team would have been stuck at the 9th spot looking in is my guess. if he had been injured even we would have been hamstrung for sure because there was nothing on the bench and we had missed already on van wafer along with just about every other FA. i will stand and applaud him every time he comes on the floor this year in someone else’s uniform.
with that said flip doesnt hold a candle to crawford who is said to be a liability on defense but has never played for a defensive minded coach. he gets his chance soon and i cant friggin wait to see him and the rest on the floor.
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:15 am
durn did alabama already lose? clyde didnt you say you wouldnt be around until then?
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
9:47 am
Paul Pierce is at it again: Paul Pierce has declared the Celtics the “team to beat” this season. It’s funny how they’re the team to beat when the Lakers has the title. What’s your take, who do you feel is the team to beat.
Doug
September 26th, 2009
10:04 am
The Hawks season is toast because they did not sign a career back-up who apparently, unbeknownst to most, is feared throughout the league! This “fearless assasin” was left on the market for five months…while the stupid NBA execs dithered…until …finally he is snatched up at the last minute by Charlotte for….1.9 million!!!!! And Charlotte is now the presumptive favorite in the East.
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
10:08 am
Because of Flip, now the Bobcats are the team to beat? I think that is bull, don’t get me wrong he’s a great player, but they’re not going to finals because of him. I know that Crawford and Teague will suprise a lot of us this year. I’m not really concern with all the chatter that going on about Flip. I do hope Flip the best, but not against the Hawks. It’s On: Go Hawks!
jhan
September 26th, 2009
10:18 am
Flip was one of my favorites players on this team last year. He did a fantastic job coming off the bench. Now he’s gone to Charlotte. Next year he’ll be trying to catch on with a different team. Same story for the next 5 years until he retires. Nice career bench player. I’m not going to lose any sleep over him being gone. Thanks Flip.
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
10:54 am
Yo Sekou, great write-up as always man. But quick question.. I heard there were talks of signing Carlos Arroyo.. No diss to the all the other guards vying for the 13th and 14th spots (big shout out to the homie, Mario West), but you couldn’t have a better 4th or 5th guard on ur team than this guy. Any truth to the rumors?
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
11:01 am
And yes i agree A Tribe Called Quest, Joe is the third best SG in the game hands down.. don’t sleep
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
11:19 am
Whatever, Ray.
The bottom line is Sekou downplayed everything Flip did for us, taking subtle shots like he was not the best bench player last year. I am hoping Crawford earns his 10 mill paycheck. And yes Acie and Speedy did suck. There’s no denying that
Yung A$E
September 26th, 2009
11:47 am
Flip was a major part in our sucess but if we kept flip i feel that wouldve made chemistry and minutes fall apart with crawford. Crawford is a animal on his a games and im jus glad hes in a hawks uniform. Also we need to sign siller and sims we must. EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!
Headed to Philadelphia
September 26th, 2009
11:55 am
It has been proposed that all-star Joe Johnson will be traded to the 76ers for Thaddes Young and Sammy Dalembert. The Hawks have been interested in dalembert in the past and the 76ers need a SG that can score and remember Joe Johnson is in his last year of his contract so that makes this trade likely to happen. With Johnson turning 28, chances are we’ve seen the best he has to offer so is time the hawks move in a new direction!
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
11:56 am
For me it’s all about the Hawks. I’m hoping Jamal Crawford makes us forget Flip, cause if he doesn’t……………….! Now as far as the last few spots on the roster go, I figure why not let the hype man Mario fill this spot since this person doesn’t see much playing time anyway. But on the other hand Othello sounded great, Siler could add more beef, and Frank Robinson I remember him playing great in the last summer league the Hawks held. The other guys I really don’t know. Let’s just say this, whichever player management thinks will help the Hawks stay on progress to becoming contenders and ultimately champs then I’m wit it!
All about the Hawks’ progress! 2010 SE Division Champs! Make it do what it do Hawks!
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:05 pm
Tribe,
If Flip was such a stud, how come he didn’t get signed until September, and even then only got the veteran’s minimum despite the fact that he was unrestricted?
Flip is what he is – a solid role player who can give you bursts of scoring off the bench. Nothing more, nothing less. He was good but replaceable. And the fact that you’re still hung up on Crawford’s salary shows that you still don’t get the point Ray was trying to make. So I’ll put it another way. Josh is making close to $11M this coming year. Tim Duncan is making just over $22M. Is Duncan still twice as good as Josh? If not, is Duncan overpaid? Next year Josh will be making $11.6M and Leon Powe will be making $916k. Assuming Powe is healthy, will Josh be overpaid? Will he be 13 times as good as Powe? So will he be “worth” his $11.6M price tag?
This is why it makes NO sense to talk about a player as “overpaid” or “underpaid” without looking at the broader context.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:07 pm
Someone is busy making sh!t up. JJ for Dalembert and Young? Really? Neither of those guys would start on the team we currently have.
Headed to Philadelphia
September 26th, 2009
12:08 pm
This trade is more likely to happen in the middle of the NBA season.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:09 pm
And PS – Dalembert is even older than JJ. Oops.
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
12:17 pm
JJ traded for Young and Dalembert. Headed to Philadelphia. I almost peed in my pants laughing at that comment. LOL! LMAO! Way to set him straight niremetal. Dang that was funny. That’s not progress.
All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Make it do what it do Hawks!
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
12:20 pm
Blasphemy!! Shame on you sir.. It is discrediting to the brilliance of Rick Sund to think he would trade JJ for these 2 guys. Now granted if JJ doesn’t sign the extenson, then I’m sure the Hawks front office would try and get something out of JJ, rather than lose him for nothing. But please believe we’ll get a much better package than these 2 guys. Hawks 2009-10 SE Division Champs? I’m wit it.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
12:25 pm
After I read the comment from headed to philadelphia, i went to google and it is true but its just a trade rummor. this trade would not help the hawks but it would help the 76ers.
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
12:31 pm
Headed to Philadelphia should have stated it as a rumor. Dog gone it.
Anywayz: All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Hawks, make it do what it do.
That’s my motto and I’m sticking to it!
Hoops
September 26th, 2009
12:32 pm
Relax guys! JJ is not going to Philly. For Young and Dalembert? Get real!
Flip was a great pick up for the Hawks last year. But, if I was the GM and I had a choice between Flip and Crawford, I’d take Crawford any day. Only time will tell if Sund made the right decision.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:33 pm
Bleacher Report is not even a “rumor.” It’s one guy making sh!t up at his computer. Dalembert looked awful this past year…no way he starts ahead of Horford, and he’d honestly have to fight Zaza to even get the backup center job. Also, the “story” is 4 months old – it was written June 3, before we traded for Crawford and drafted Teague. The addition of those two makes it tough to see why the Hawks would ever consider that trade, since neither Young nor Dalembert would start.
In any case, there was no “rumor” at all. It was a couple Sixers fans looking at their roster, realizing they suck, and wanting to come up with a trade that would net them an All-Star without giving up anyone good.
Hoops
September 26th, 2009
12:38 pm
nire,
Kinda like the trade we did with the Warriors to get Crawford?
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:39 pm
The Sixers fan who thought that up probably just remembers this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpTGcruhOfM&fmt=18
…and thought “Hey, it would be great if we could trade the guy who got burned and get the guy who hit the shot!”
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
Hoops,
So many differences. The Warriors had said publicly that they intended to trade Crawford. The Hawks have never given ANY indication that JJ is available. Crawford also is not nearly the player JJ is – Crawford won’t be a starter here, while JJ would instantly be the best player in Philly (no offense to Iguodala, who has All-Star potential but is most certainly not there yet – there is pretty much nothing that he does better than JJ except dunk).
I’ve lived in Philly for most of the past 8 years and I’ve seen a lot of Sixers games and talked to a lot of Sixers fans. They have been trying to concoct ways to unload Dalembert’s contract for a long time. The guy who wrote that seems to be under the misconception that the Hawks would consider Dalembert an upgrade over Horford (let’s see, do we start the guy who is 1 inch taller, or the guy who is stronger, quicker, smarter, younger, a better jumper, and plays with 50x more heart? Hmmmmm….).
Oh, and one last, more than mildly important difference – the Warriors are a lottery team that is rebuilding. The Hawks are not.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
man, my celtics would love to see the hawks make this trade,that trade would be in the top 5 dumb trades made in the nba. but then again the hawks are not smart, remember not drafting cp3 and drafting Shelden williams. Hahaha!!!
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
12:50 pm
Niremetal,
I won this argument already.
Thanks.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:56 pm
Oh, sorry Tribe. I didn’t realize G-d had appointed you the judge of who wins arguments you’re involved in. My bad.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:57 pm
Hawk fans I wrote it to make the people from Philadelphia look dumb, I also wrote the comment to sound smart saying how stupid that trade was.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
1:05 pm
that was funny niremetal
The real niremetal...
September 26th, 2009
1:05 pm
…knows how to use punctuation and where to insert necessary prepositions. Nice try, though.
But I have no problems admitting that I try to look smart. It’s tough to look smart when you’re in my line of work.
Res ipsa loquitur,
Matt = niremetal 
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
1:08 pm
The Sixers fan who thought that up probably just remembers this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpTGcruhOfM&fmt=18
…and thought “Hey, it would be great if we could trade the guy who got burned and get the guy who hit the shot!”
LOL! NIREMETAL, YEP THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HE MUST HAVE BEEN THINKING!
Last year’s home opener, good times, good times. The Hawks came back from a twenty point deficit that game. Awesome! I hope this years’ home opener is just as crunk as that one was.
All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Hawks, make it do what it do!
rob
September 26th, 2009
1:24 pm
I loved the 2007 home opener againts Dallas!
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:37 pm
We’ve got our sixth man of the year with Crawford
Shake and Bake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5DXIezqr4&NR=1
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:40 pm
These are going to the moves that people better look out for: More shaking and baking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crs-QT1DERo&feature=related
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:48 pm
This is guy while we’re going to forget about flip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxKEou4vPHk
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:53 pm
I’m tired of hearing about Flip, and let’s move on: We have to move on, Flip was great but we got someone that’s better shooter and can benefit the Hawks future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjulTveN6Ts&feature=related
jerrywest
September 26th, 2009
2:00 pm
Wow. Crawford pours in 52 points in a blow out win against Wade and sits on the bench for the last 7 minutes. Could have scored 60-70.
Tron5000
September 26th, 2009
2:09 pm
The NBA’s salary structure is nice in theory, but the application has ramifications for teams and players. Yeah, it’s all fine and dandy to try to make sure veterans get paid a decent wage. But when a guy like Mario West, who can be a big help as a defensive stopper in this league, may not make a team because his salary requirement is too high, both parties lose. The Hawks would be forced to pay him a certain salary, and his worth may be deemed to not be that high. They can’t negotiate a contract that will pay him less than the minimum for his service time. So the Hawks may be forced into letting him walk, and should another team not sign him, he’s out of a job and with no paycheck at all, and looking for another way to support himself and his family.
Not a big fan of the whole “minimum wage” thing.
doc
September 26th, 2009
3:10 pm
you know i cant wait to see nire and ando get into a discussion with some element of disagreement. could be epical. whatcha think ariose? ando, come back, please, we are left unenlightened, clueless and like drifting sands. need some bang for my entertainment dollar here.
tjhook
September 26th, 2009
3:43 pm
First, I want to show my complete love for Flip Murray and what he did in a Hawks uniform. My question is why Sund or Woodson didn’t believe Flip and Crawford would’nt have been an explosive duo off the bench. Throw in Evans and that’s a lethal group of wing guys with a lot of versatility – enough to augment the starters. I’m mainly concerned with how the offense will be run when Mike Bibby gets hurts during the season.
MannyT
September 26th, 2009
3:56 pm
@Sekou…How about them Wolverines!
I wish Flip well. He got biannual exception which is better than minimum. Getting a 33% raise this year is a good thing for anyone who can get it. I agree that I’ll miss him almost like Chills, but everyone can (and at some point will) be replaced.
I cannot say that I am looking forward to preseason, but camp looks interesting with the battle for the end of the bench.
@Ray…are you the 2009-10 Hawks Hack or are there term limits? Is Ando back with you or was he too constrained by the word count limitations, no matter how high they might be
@Tron5000…comparing the unionized salary scale of rich athletes to the working poor and minimum wage is a Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards stretch. Working 40 hours/week, every week grosses $15,080/year. The minimum NBA salary this season for a rookie is $457,588.
Any of the guys in Hawks camp that end up in the D-League will make well more than minimum wage in 1/2 a year.
For related, good job, little sympathy argument, keep an eye on NBA ref situation.
@doc…niremetal v ando
It could be epic, but the dictionaries might protest the event for an abusive overuse of words. I’d want the video rights if they were actually in the same place.
BWAF
Wink
September 26th, 2009
4:24 pm
Flip gets signed in late September. Our offense is guard oriented and we did not need Flip. Most of the offense will be provided by Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Teague?, why not Flip, but Flip is gone.
Crawford was insurance for JJ & Bibby signings. Bibby has signed. Why has JJ not signed? Where is JJ, he usually makes it down to the practice gym prior to camp…not one sighting. He was Twittering…nothing of late.
One poster states a proposed trade could be in the works for JJ to Philly for Dalenbert & Thadeus Young…after JJ contract is up this year. Could it be the starting lineup could be Bibby, Crawford, Josh, Horford,& Dalenbert. With a 2nd unit of Teague, Marvin, Young, ZaZa, Joe Smith. The offense would have to change a bit no more Iso Joe.
Or is JJ trying to make a big camp impression “The MAN has Arrived”.
We will know tomorrow what up with Joe! Flip is gone!
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
4:41 pm
I love the Hawks!
Bill
September 26th, 2009
4:42 pm
Enter your comments here I’ve seen Courtney Sims play in some of his workouts in Boston. He is a far better player than people have seen in the past. He would be a steal as a second year salary player. Any NBA team who signs him will get a very good player who can contribute immediately.
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:06 pm
“Hmmm…. is there anything in the news that I can blame on Mexicans today?”
MannyT
September 26th, 2009
5:06 pm
@niremetal from last blog.
Joe’s deal with the Hawks was 5 yrs/$70 mil with front loaded payment in year 1 of 20 mil. That left 50 mil for the other 4 years which dipped in year 2 and then had raises.
I think there has been a revision to the CBA since JJ signed that deal. The differences between what you expected to see in the contract may have been due to those changes.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960
BWAF
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:11 pm
“Now You Know!” This is the real Lou Dobbs.
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
Have any of you seen my show on CNN?
Bob
September 26th, 2009
5:23 pm
Lou you can blame them for the fact that flip’s gone.
Bill are you the celtic spy?
September 26th, 2009
5:30 pm
Enter your comments here
rob
September 26th, 2009
5:37 pm
The whole jj trade is fake, if it was true Sekou would have told us.
Headed to Huston
September 26th, 2009
5:51 pm
3 time all-star JJ could be traded to the Rocket for Tracy Macgrady a super star with injury problems.
Timbo
September 26th, 2009
5:58 pm
Eh, I guess you missed the playoff games where Flip outplayed Bibby and Joe . . .
Headed to Boston
September 26th, 2009
6:21 pm
The Atlanta Hawks are looking to trade 3 time all-star Joe Johnson to the team that drafted him,the Boston Celtics in return the Hawks would get SG Ray Allen and Center kendrick Perkins. This trade would help both playoff teams.
Eman
September 26th, 2009
6:40 pm
This is the best hawks video ever!! The highlight factor is in business!!
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
6:44 pm
The idea that JJ will be traded is crazy.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
7:08 pm
Timbo,
Eh, I guess you missed all the stories talking about JJ being hurt and Bibby being Bibby. And the fact that JJ outscored and out-assisted Flip in every single playoff game. And Flip shot 34% from the field compared to 42% for JJ (and 46% for Bibby). And Bibby and JJ averaged more assists (both per game and per 36 minutes) than Flip.
He was a good player. But it’s hysterical how some people are talking about Flip now like he is the second coming of John Havlicek rather than the solid role player that he is.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
7:13 pm
*scratch “out-assisted.” Flip topped JJ twice in that category during the playoffs. And out-rebounded JJ once.
real niremetal
September 26th, 2009
8:36 pm
niremetal can you stop making fake JJ trade rumors?
Ariose
September 26th, 2009
9:35 pm
Doc, Ditto what Manny said hehehe!!
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
10:17 pm
“”You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it.”
Wtf is Woodson referring to?
Sekou Smith
September 26th, 2009
10:59 pm
Winning 47 games Tribe.
Headed to Atlanta
September 26th, 2009
11:01 pm
It has been reported on PTI that King James wants to become a Hawk in 2010.
King James told the guys from PTI that with him, JJ and Josh Smith the hawks can become champs
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:38 pm
“They already have great chemistry, and I don’t want to mess that up,” he said. “I’m probably going to shock some people with my passing. I love to be the set-up man, so I can work in whatever capacity coach needs me to. What I do know is that you can have all the talent in the world, but if the chemistry isn’t right, you won’t go anywhere. I’ve lived through that before in New York. So we have to come in and blend right to help get it done.”
There goes our coach-killer, already plotting Woody’s demise……
That might include some shuffling of responsibilities, including Johnson moving from shooting guard to small forward so Woodson can deploy essentially a three-guard attack at times. “I have some combinations now that I can play with,” he said. “However I decide to go will be based on who’s giving us what we need on a given night and how all these guys are playing.”
Hot damn. Say what I have about Woody and his offensive capabilities, etc….I like the sound of what he’s saying NOW. And I like what Sund has given him to work with in that backcourt. It ain’t perfect (the defense is still a big question mark) but it looks way better than it has in 5 or more years. There may be some growing pains, and that is to be expected, but if Woody can get the right combinations at the right times, other teams will be far more worried about how to defend us, than we will about defending THEM. Work that mojo, Woody…..
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:44 pm
MannyT ,
Well, we actually managed to get the name changed, so now it’s “Hawks Fan Nest”, representing the forum as a fan forum, rather than putting the focus on ourselves. As for whether it’s the two of us, it still is. Ando’s around….somewhere…Ando? Ando! Heh heh heh….Anyway, no term limits that I’m aware of, though there will be some things done a bit differently, as you’ll see. Looking forward to seeing you there (as well as here, obviously).
Ando vs. Niremetal ? We might just have to set that up….pardon me while I put on my Don King tupee, as there is no way I can make my normally short cut do what his does…
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
11:51 pm
I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks I would suggest for a second – even in jest – that the Hawks should trade JJ…well that person obviously doesn’t pay attention to the blog comments.
Ray,
I don’t know…the purse would have to be pretty big to entice me to step into the ring with Ando for 12 rounds
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:56 pm
I see the local blog gremlin has latched onto Niremetal for the moment. That IS pretty funny, as I think there is only a very small handful that could actually imitate him well. Even then, it’s not a cake walk. Ah, well. Entertainment comes in all forms, I guess.
Such a hubbub about Flip. We’ll miss him, but not for what he does on the court, because we have made up for that, I believe. He was/is a good guy, and I’m glad to see him get a good job (with a raise), with a good coach. He deserved it. I would have HATED to see him have to go overseas.
This shows you just how bad it has been for the organization in the recent past. Most teams, especially the decent ones, have a guy who comes off the bench and produces. We didn’t have that for so long, that when Chill left, we thought the world was over, even though we got Evans and Murray. Now that Murray is leaving, we’re acting like the world is over, even though we got Crawford. At some point (hopefully anyway), we’ll be used to winning, and used to having a good balanced roster. Then, if a player leaves and is replaced, we won’t go so nutty. I hope that time has come upon us.
As for JJ, dude knows the system and what to do. I’m more interested in how healthy he is, and how mentally ready he is to share the burden on offense. I could care less what he’s been twittering. The contract situation is nothing new. Happens with teams’ top players all the time. The man doesn’t have to rush, he has all season to get things done. Or NOT done.
Here’s the part that we sometimes forget when we’re praising Sund for his efficiency and foresight: this is the same guy who has to figure out how to keep us in happy land with or without Joe Johnson. I’m not even getting into whether the world revolves around JJ or if this team can still be a playoff contender that can build on success without him. I’m just saying that the show goes on, and you figure out how to do just that.
Sund shouldn’t go into this with the mindset that the world ends if JJ doesn’t sign the extension. He should be thinking of how to still turn that into a winning situation if possible, or how to best recoup if NOT possible.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:00 am
Nire ,
Such thoughts would suggest what I said: blog gremlin. And you don’t need anymore hints than that , lol.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:27 am
“I don’t have to burn guys,” Woodson acknowledged. “Last year, yeah, I burnt guys. I have to try and play Joe differently this year. I look at the Lakers and what they did by getting Ron Artest, and all I can think is that Kobe is going to be a beast this year because he won’t have to guard the other team’s best player this year. Artest can handle that. Somehow I have to relieve Joe of having to guard point guards. And in that regard hopefully we’ll be able to shrink not only his minutes but everybody’s minutes and make sure they remain productive and they don’t lose anything.”
“What it does is give you ability to attack from all angles once you get a defensive stop and push the ball up the floor,” Woodson said. “You have shooters all around. All these guys can make shots. It makes you feel good about pushing the ball because the guy with the ball in his hands has so many options.”
VERY interesting comments from Woody. Sounds like he is more confident and comfortable doing things we’ve complained about in the past. I would love to see this FOLLOW THROUGH. Especially the part about cutting minutes back on the starters to keep them fresh (particularly Joe) WITHOUT cooling their games down, getting Joe away from having to guard point guards, and pushing the ball whenever possible and optimal.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:29 am
Gotta get some sleep, Falcons are playing tomorrow.
By the way, if anybody wants a good place to talk Falcon football, and doesn’t want to get attacked by the normal rabid hate baters, go to this AJC fan forum- Falcons: The Bird Cage . That’s a happenin’ spot.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
12:58 am
Ray, Loved your 11:56pm post can I get an Amen!!!?
As for Woody, There’s hope, but I won’t hold my breath.
Nire, smart move….even though i’m sure the Lawyer in you disagrees ha!
Ray, I think I might just venture over there for a little Falcon Blogging tomorrow lol…
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
1:47 am
Woody makes this statement:
“Somehow I have to relieve Joe of having to guard point guards.”
I’m not sure I follow. Joe only guarded PG when Woody went into a mode of attack on offense by playing JJ at the PG position to create a mismatch. It is a Woody offense strategy that causes Joe to defend the PG as a consequence. Woody is spinning this (to the press) as if he was reacting to defenses by playing JJ on PGs when he is actually creating the situation with his offense strategy.
Maybe with our new players and their scoring abilities, he scraps this favor of the ISO strategy anyway since JJ never fully exploited the mismatch. When I mean fully, I mean to a point where JJ dominated the PG. The cost of JJ getting beat by quicker PGs and getting worn down defending them obtain outweighed the few times he did beat them in isolations. Joe is such a big SG, that he will create a mismatch straight-up (most of the time) with the SG defender. So creating the PG mismatch involving JJ may not be necessary with our new lineup.
With Teague in the mix, hopefully he can guard the quicker PGs and make them pay on offense as well.
moboman
September 27th, 2009
3:40 am
should be an interesting preseason. who knows maybe a deal upcoming in the backup roles.
jhan
September 27th, 2009
9:03 am
Truth – JJ was forced to guard PG’s all season due to Bibby’s slow feet. It really had nothing to do with the offensive scheme I don’t think. Teague should definitely help in that aspect. Also Crawford should be able guard PG’s for some minutes.
Great to hear Woody talk about “burning out” his starters. Wonder how his supporters who denied those claims all last season will spin that one?
Somehow I think this team is going to be tough to beat this season – even without a 7′ beast at Center.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 27th, 2009
9:31 am
“”You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it.”
Sekou, I mean, why would people be complaining? Must be overusing our starters?
Didn’t think of that
My bad
Mario West
September 27th, 2009
9:45 am
Things are not looking good for me, I think the NBA is over for me.
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
9:48 am
jhan
Forgot about Bibby slow feet; But usually when JJ picked-up the PG player (in that scenario) it was a result of opponents set screen plays and our switching defense. I didn’t think it was a dedicated assignment for JJ because of Bibby shortcomings. If Bibby becomes that much of reliability he really needs to come off the bench. With our new offensive weapon, I think we really need to re-think our whole offensive strategy as Al Horford touch on during his remarks.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
11:07 am
Truth,
Not sure which Hawks (expect Milwaukee, Ridnour) games you been watching but JJ has always been assign to defend the oppossing team PGs. Bibby need to help Woody/JJ and step up to the task to defend other teams PGs…
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 27th, 2009
11:28 am
Never heard of a blog gremlin before. Dang, only on the Hawks blog huh! Interesting that the gremlin doesn’t show up on the Falcons blog. Must be someone that likes to irritate Hawks fans. Although, the idiot should know that most Hawks fans are Falcons fans too. Thanks for clearing that up Big Ray. Next time I read ignorant comments or comments that just doesn’t make any sense I’ll just ignore it and not even respond. LOL!
Almost time for Frank Caliendo, Terry Bradshaw, Michael Strahan, Howie Long, and Jimmy Johnson can’t miss their predictions. My prediction Falcons over Patriots. Ha!
readWoodson's dreams my lips
September 27th, 2009
12:39 pm
It would have been nice if the AJC poll had an option to ask if the hawks would only make it to the second round and then out. The pollster intentionally left this out. That is the concenus of the pojection the Hawks bow out in the secound round. By the way Woody hate crew:
Bob
September 27th, 2009
12:39 pm
Can anybody tell who is the gremlin?
Tron5000
September 27th, 2009
12:46 pm
@MannyT: The concept is the same. People are pushed out of jobs because their skills are not deemed by their employer to be worthy of the amount they must be paid. There is a supply of workers available, but the demand for their salary is not warranted. Supply-demand works across the entire spectrum.
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
1:50 pm
Melvin
What about Miami, LA Lakers, Orlando, Boston, NJ just to name a few.
loyalhawktillidie
September 27th, 2009
2:10 pm
yea the hawks se division champs but im not sure how that will happen im not sure but i think there might be a team named the magic in the same division i have to check on that but im pretty sure there gonna rape us come on guy be realistic will come in second place(division) and forth overall in the east
Brian
September 27th, 2009
3:28 pm
Sekou was a bit of a hypocrite in his post….especially considering how much he felt that Flip deserved a considerable raise from his 1.5 million dollar salary last year in other articles that he wrote. Last season was the first season that Flip was given a specific role and he did well. On almost every other team he has ever been on he has been asked to put up All-Star numbers when a starter was out with injury but the moment that starter returned he was relegated to garbage minutes. The reason why that was the case was because Murray never carried himself like a bench player – and that has problem hurt him more than it has helped him.
I would like to have seen him play for a team that could have contended for a division crown, but even at age 30, when given starters minutes Flip is still capable of consistent big scoring nights. I understand why Atlanta didn’t want to bring him back with the logjam that they have in the backcourt. But to dismiss his stabilizing locker room presence last year would be stupid. Notorious knuckleheads like Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia I saw really listening to Flip last year.
Is Jamal Crawford really that much of an upgrade over Flip? Considering the fact that Jamal has yet to play in a playoff game and that the Warriors were willing to take the Hawks worst just to get him off of their roster I wouldn’t make that assumption just yet. Flip, despite his shortcomings, has always had the respect of his teammates. It seems to me that Crawford has always been walking to the beat of his own drum – and that is why every coach that Crawford has played for has preferred for him to play somewhere else.
We shall see about this season. The team has obvious improved on paper. But games aren’t won on paper….and being that Woodson feels slighted for not being given another contract extension I can imagine that this team may not have as good as chemistry as the 2008-2009 version.
Best of luck to Flip. People have a hard time pulling for underdogs that have much more confidence than they would ever have when the world is counting them out. I expected much better from Sekou but now I know better.
Josh Smith
September 27th, 2009
3:37 pm
Trade Joe Johnson!
Hoops
September 27th, 2009
3:55 pm
Wouldn’t it be funny if the Hawks had a fantastic season and really over achieved to win the East? Then LeBron decided to come to the Hawks as a FA! Can you imagine the excitment in the ATL? O’kay, time to come back to reality.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
3:58 pm
Truth,
Miami/LA only out of that group b/c you wouldnt have Bibby guard Kobe or Dwade…
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
4:47 pm
Truth,
The whole issue with JJ guarding opposing pgs was even admitted by Woody. You arguing with Woody??
Jhan ,
“Great to hear Woody talk about “burning out” his starters. Wonder how his supporters who denied those claims all last season will spin that one?”
I agree. I was glad to hear Woody recognize that issue as well. As for those who denied that (and other valid claims), I doubt you will hear one single word. I seem to recall several smart a$$ comments and straw arguments along those lines. Now, just silence….
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
4:49 pm
Against Boston, Joe had to guard Pierce or Allen. Against New Jersey, he had to switch between Vince and Devin Harris. In Orlando, there was no need to guard the pg. Miami and L.A. should be self explanatory, but Melvin has it pegged right anyhow.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
5:16 pm
Ray,
When the Hawks played the Nets, Bibby guarded Bobby Simmons. Against the Celtics, he guards Ray. As long as the opposing team PG wasn’t quick or like to post then Bibby would be assigned to him. However I’m glad to hear Woodson confuse to overplaying JJ and havent him guard the toughest defensive assignment. Now lets see what he does about it…
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
5:23 pm
Scroll alert for the less econ inclined.
@Tron5000–A strong answer to the difference in regular people min wage versus, high reward work minimum wage comes from Freakonomics. Check out this blurb about drug dealers living at home. It is similar to the extreme of sports athlete jobs without price floors. For the high potential reward job, people will accept lower wages and higher risk starting points.
There’s a lot more I could say, but the blog would collectively
in a MAJOR WAY.
I understand the lack of appreciation for wage floors, but they do serve a purpose…often less to do with individual capitalism, but more to do with macroeconomic capitalism.
I am glad that Mario gets a chance to go after a job with the Hawks, but it is true that the stakes change as the minimum salary increases. DJ Shockley was in a similar situation when the Falcons made their August roster cuts.
BWAF
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
5:28 pm
@Ray–remember Woody ALWAYS sounds good this time of year. When the rubber hits the road, he will do whatever he thinks is necessary to win games now. The good news is that it makes sense for him to keep his gig. The bad news may come in Joe’s next contract if he looks like 31 going on 41 as some guys do when they fall off their prime years.
You cannot run guys into the ground forever.
BWAF
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
6:14 pm
yes, flip did help us win 47 games, but wit’ flip, we only won 16 road games las’ year!! and we won 12 road games the year before that, wit’ out flip. so havin’ flip increased our road wins by 4 games? and we were way below .500 on the road. BYE FLIP!! THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES!!
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
7:35 pm
MannyT ,
Trust me, bro’. I have not forgotten at all. Here’s the trick- opening your mouth and saying it now can come back and bite you if you don’t stay true to your word. He’s in his contract year. Based on what we’ve seen in the past, if I were Woody, I wouldn’t say things like he’s said. I’d simply put my head down and do the work. Then, at the end of the line, you can say you simply did what you had to do. If you’re a conspiracy theorist and think Sund or the ASG is looking to can the guy simply because they haven’t extended him yet, then you would also have to say that Woody’s words are playing him right into Sund’s hands.
See, the argument has forever been that “it’s all about the players” and Woody could do this or that, but he doesn’t have the players to do it with. There is a great deal of merit to that argument (though it ain’t quite bullet-proof). But here you have Woody saying he NOW has all these options, and all of this quality depth. What happens then, if he (and the team) does not succeed in the way that management/ownership expects him to? Worse yet, what happens if he does what he normally does, and that doesn’t work? That’s why I’m both glad to hear him say what he did (recognizing issues that we all know have existed for some time), but would have cautioned him against saying “I have what I need to work with now” too loudly….but hey, like the article states, he has no problems speaking his mind.
I can tell you this much, he’s going to have a hard time explaining things if like you said, Joe gets burned down to ashes again, or there are major chemistry problems between frontcourt and backcourt (and no, I doubt these will have to do with Crawford), or the team doesn’t run nearly as much as it could. All I can say is that it better be clearly a player problem (trade somebody’s disruptive butt if that’s the case). Even then, it comes back to Woody if he’s not careful. Because the question that comes up is, does he have control of the team? A fine line to walk. Better to work than talk.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
7:36 pm
Ariose ,
‘Preciate it! I was hoping I would get a point across without getting labeled a “JJ Hater.”
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
8:23 pm
Something we don’t talk about much. What if JJ likes the iso dribble. We all say we want a leader (while JJ is thinking, just give me the rock, I am the best player on the team and quit griping about what I do best).
Sure that may lead to a little standing around and less offensive rebounds. Would we have made the play offs without the JJ iso? If Woody tells Bibby to quit running the offense through JJ and we get off to a slow start do you think the bloggers will be patient or blame Woody.
What if Crawford doesn’t play any better than Flip, Teague needs three years of development and we don’t get the organic growth we expect out of Josh/ Marvin, Al and ZaZa. Will it be ok to go back the JJ iso if it means more wins?
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
8:37 pm
Just to make my record is clear – lol – I expect organic growth from Josh/Marvin/ZaZa and Al. I expect close to 800-900 less attempts for the back court over all. If that causes chemistry problems, then there is a problem. If I am Sund and I am paying over 30 million for 4 back court guards, I would expect them to be able to pass. Not only that but make good passes that take advantage of their skills. JJ/Crawford/Bibby/Teague listening? Save your coaches job. Get -er-done.
Doug
September 27th, 2009
8:44 pm
KevinA: The reality is JJ is not explosive enough to iso all night….there are other really good options out there …and by playing slow the Hawks are playing “back” to teams that do not have the athleticism to play with them in a quick game. It’s not “a little” standing around….it is a ton of standing around, and most of it with there best slasher-finisher, JS, planted behind the 3 pt line apparently with Woody’s blessing!
As to the rest of your entry….Crawford always has and will again be vastly superior to Flip….Teague will surely need some seasoning but he is not to be lconfused with Acie…he is a PLAYER!! Organic development??? I believe that Marvin will be much better…Josh will be somewhat better…and Zaza will be Zaza
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
9:23 pm
For all the figuring and posturing, I expect Woody to look better as a coach because he can let this more talented, seasoned bunch of players, just play. If something goes bad, his biggest responsibility will be putting the 5 on the floor and managing minutes. He won’t be forced to call lots of plays. He will be forced to figure out good matchups.
All that said, I think he’ll be successful this season. Well enough to get his extension.
His model for success has not changed…it is the Chuck Daly Pistons. Scoring from the backcourt, ride the hot hand, get just enough from the front court to keep teams off balance.
Even though these are more the good boys than the bad boys, maybe they can get a theme song. They can even rif it from the Cops theme.
@Brian–I think Woody hopes to get that additional veteran presence from Joe Smith and Jason Collins. I do think that Flip deserved a raise, but he was a victim of addition by subtraction. Teague was the preferred draft pick. If it had been a big man, that would have worked in Flip’s favor. Crawford was the best deal they could get while getting rid of Claxton & Law. If that deal had brought them a big man, then someone else may have needed to go.
If Bibby goes elsewhere, maybe Flip is here. Putting all 3 situations together, Flip got bumped. It ain’t personal, it’s business.
BWAF
yeah buddy!!!!!
September 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Well if u guys want to kno whats going on with JOE, well to start off, he’s in the best shape of his NBA career, more stronger, he added alot of muscle over the summer, also he’s had alot going on with a close family member health that is failing, and he lost his agent that been with him since day one, and that takes a toll on a person life, but i promise you this year u will get the best player out of him, a new attitude, a new focus on the game, and a new look, body looks like T.O.
and hes been spendin time in and out of state traing with different guys,gyms and with major shooting coaches, and i know yall havent seen him because he had a 10yr class reunion in Little Rock,AR this past weekend he attended the historic Little Rock Central High School. Theres no need to worry he’s very happy about this season, and i promise this is going to be the best season yall seen as hawks fans, Peace out!!!!!
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
9:41 pm
Big Ray
You missed my point. I didn’t mean to suggest JJ never guarded PG. I’m suggesting he was not dedicated to a PG for any great length of time. It would just be for occasional looks to run ISO Joe. Also, with the Hawks switching defense at any given time, any Hawk player could be guarding someone else. JJ is mostly guarding the SG which is usually the toughest assignment (D Wade, Kobe, R. Allen, V Carter, etc.) that’s all. You are suggesting he’s dedicated all the time to guys like Nelson, Rondo, and Harris etc. This is not rocket science. Yes, I questioned Woody. He has been known to make political statements in front of the media for various reasons. However, this statement is really no big deal. I’m guessing he was just laying the groundwork for reducing JJ minutes perhaps.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 27th, 2009
10:18 pm
I think we can blame Woodson partially for Smoove’s lack of a development of key areas of his game.
Why has Woodson/Sund not hired someone to work with Smoove EVERY summer on elements of his game that stink? What did Hakeem do for Smoove a few summers ago? We need Smoove to work with a big man coach who can teach him a jumpshot and post defense and dribbling, or else it’ll be another waste of a year for the 2nd best athlete in the NBA
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
10:20 pm
KEVINA, BIG RAY, NIRE,
if we don’t re-sign jj, do you let him walk at the end of the year and get nothin’? or do you trade in feb. and get some value, regardless of our we are rollin’ as a team?
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:30 pm
Truth, I think you are refering to the offensive side of things. No JJ did not play PG on that side of the ball. He just guarded bigger/faster PG’s on the defensive side of the ball like Chauncey Billups and Devon Harris.
Yeah Buddy!!, Thanks for the JJ update. I know about his agent passing, but not the rest of the info you posted.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:36 pm
Truth, Ususally(Take the Raptors for example) Joe would Guard Jose Calderon(because of his playmaking ability and 3pt shooting) and Bibby would guard the player who usually just spots up(In this case, it’s Anthony Parker or Jason Kapono). That gives us the best opourtunity to succeed on the defensive end.
Now when we play a team like Boston, Bibby HAS TO guard Rondo b/c the Celtics are too talented at the wing positions(Allen/Perice) for JJ worry about guarding Rondo.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:38 pm
Bibby gets the spot-up guy, because that guy doesn’t really move around much and that leaves less oppourtunities for Bibby and his slow feet to get burned lol.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:39 pm
I’m really worried about Smooves hand. Sekou saud hgis Jumper was on point b4 the hand injury. Will it be when he takes the Gauze off? Last season when he came back from the ankle injury his shot was off….way off..
Tron5000
September 27th, 2009
10:40 pm
@MannyT:
Shockley got cut because he wasn’t as good as the other 3 guys. He was drafted by a regime pandering to the local fan base, and the Falcons never had any plans for him to be an actual performer at the NFL level. He got cut because he wasn’t good enough. Now our defense has someone against whom they can practice.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
10:48 pm
Truth,
You’re right. I did miss your point. And I think you missed mine as well, but that was entirely my fault because I did a very bad job of explaining it. I should have said what I originally was thinking, which was that JJ was stuck guarding the point guard all too often (when it was a good point guard). I think I did make myself clear however, when I said that there was no need for him to guard Orlando’s pg (Nelson), in my 4:49 post. Yeah, I question Woody too, as he is a bit prone to saying something to the press before training camp, then doing the exact opposite during the season.
I was just saying that at least he admitted that he used Joe against the opposing pg a bit too often (he had to in a lot of cases) and that perhaps now we had a solution to that. If we don’t, does he get the blame for the defensive scheme, or is it the players’ fault? Well, the blog in general will not agree, but I think we’ll have a good idea to work with once the games start.
Hence my post to MannyT about Woodson and what he has to say pre-preseason. And I think Manny has it right: this bunch of seasoned guys and up-and-comers who have been here a minute will be able to just play, rather than him trying to cook up a bunch of Xs and Os, which I do not feel are his forte. Oh wait, does that statement put me back in the Bubba Bin? Dammit….
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
10:51 pm
KevinA ,
I think you bring a very good, thought-provoking argument. Nice Work ! Of course, making comments like that about JJ is liable to draw some people’s Nire ….er…I mean, ire …..
Quick question to add to your mix: how did Iso JJ look in the playoffs the last two years?
niremetal
September 27th, 2009
10:59 pm
MannyT and Ariose pretty much covered the field tonight. Nothing to add to that.
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
11:07 pm
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
10:20 pm
I think you got ride JJ till the end even if he does want to look around next year. At the end of the day where can JJ be the local MR. Basketball with more respect and fan fair.
One of the neat things about this team is they seem to like each other on and off the court. Sund gets the credit for the resign of ZaZa, Bibby and Marvin for mabye less than they could have made otherwise. Woody gets part of that credit. I look for JJ to do the same thing. Give up a mil or two to hang with his boys.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
11:11 pm
….unless somebody offers him nicer money for a chance to compete for a championship NOW, and the luxury of playing with another bonafide star….but I ain’t tryin’ to borrow trouble….
niremetal
September 27th, 2009
11:23 pm
But on another set of topics…
KevinA,
You expect 800-900 less attempts from the backcourt overall?? That’s just crazy. JJ, Flip, and Bibby combined for ~3200 shots last year, so 800-900 fewer attempts would mean slashing the backcourt touches by more than a quarter. Our frontcourt rotation (Josh/Marvin/Al/Zaza) combined for ~2400 attempts. Transferring 800-900 shots would give the Hawks one of the most frontcourt-heavy offenses in the league. I agree we should have more touches for the frontcourt, but that would be swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. To paraphrase our president, we need a scalpel, not a hatchet.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but with the exception of Marvin and Joe Smith (who play more on the perimeter anyway), the frontcourt guys on our roster are always going to be known more for their defense and rebounding than their offense. All of them are more about strength, power, and (in the case of Josh/Al) explosiveness than finesse. On the other hand, our backcourt has three guys now who can shoot lights out, including two guys who can score both off the drive and from deep. So every halfway decent coach in the league would tilt the Hawks’ offense at least a little more towards the backcourt than usual (and offenses usually tilt more towards the backcourt anyway…that’s just the nature of the modern game). They just probably wouldn’t tilt it quite as heavily as Woody has.
Should the frontcourt get a few more touches per game? Absolutely. We need more balance. Should the backcourt’s touches get slashed by a full 25% and give the Hawks one of the NBA’s most frontcourt-heavy offenses? No freaking way. That would just replace one kind of imbalance with another.
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
11:26 pm
Doug
September 27th, 2009
8:44 pm
Thats one part of our offense I never did understand. Our bigs being outside the 3pt line. Why they don’t slide to the free throw line? Beats me.
niremetal
September 27th, 2009
11:41 pm
And PS – if you want to quibble and count Marvin with the backcourt players, the point still stands. Just check out the FGAs from around the league last season on basketball-reference and compare teams’ PG/SG FGAs to their PF/C FGAs. With the exception of Orlando (which has D-12) and Houston (which has Yao), every team with a winning record had significantly more touches for their backcourt than their frontcourt. Including San Antonio, which has quite possibly the league’s best PF/C.
As I said, we need a scalpel, not a hatchet…
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
11:56 pm
niremetal,
Your math will be a little different if you include Flips shots. My math figures around roughly 2-3 shots per quarter. Why does that seem like such a big deal to you.
Would your idea of a better balance be deferring 1 shot per quarter? that’s 328 attempts in an 82 game season. I believe we need more change of direction than that.
You know what?- I am not so tied up in shot attempts but passing to these guys first early in the clock. This would mean a more up tempo set up. Getting into sets quickly will allow more time to pass back and try again before settling on the jumper.
Best case scenario, We go to the big’s enough that teams respect and change the defense to guard against it. Then of course the ball kicks out to three of the most dangerous guards in the NBA.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
12:02 am
KevinA,
Read my post more carefully. I DID include Flip’s shots.
In fact, re-read my entire post again, because it’s pretty clear you missed the point. The change you suggest would make the Hawks among the league’s most frontcourt-heavy offensive teams. Does that really make sense considering the relative offensive talents of the players on our roster?
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
12:03 am
All attempts are not created equal. Lets take the example of Parker vrs. Bibby. What type of attempts do you prefer. For every added drive our back court makes, drop that number from the 2-3 attempts per quarter to the front court. Does that make more sense to you? A little less crazy?
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
12:13 am
Got cut off there – I wanted to say a couple more things.
I do agree with your idea that we should get the ball to the frontcourt early in the shot clock…as long as the frontcourt players show that they have the offensive awareness to know when to go up and when to kick out. And to be blunt, while I’m pretty confident Horford can do that, Josh and Zaza both have a tendency towards tunnel vision when they get the ball down low. That’s precisely why so few teams run their offense through the frontcourt, and why I’d be wary of a drastic cut in shots.
And 2.5-3 FGAs per quarter is a lot when you consider that we only take 19-20 FGAs per quarter total. To put it into context, that would be like a football team running 9-10 more running plays per game and making 9-10 fewer passes – it only comes out to 2.5-3 per quarter, but that makes a pretty big difference in the team’s offensive balance. That’s the difference between a run-heavy team and a pass-heavy team.
kwooden1
September 28th, 2009
12:13 am
I will start by saying Thanks for the great year Flip! I’m glad to see Flip get a raise, I hate to see him go to a team in our division, especially a rival! Either way I’m happy for Flip because he really made a difference for the team.
I will also say I’ve been on the side of finding an improvement for Woodson and that still really hasn’t changed, but some of his comments in Sekou’s article really shed some light on why I think the guys always stand up for him. Woodson said, “Last year, yeah, I burnt guys. I have to try and play Joe differently this year. I look at the Lakers and what they did by getting Ron Artest, and all I can think is that Kobe is going to be a beast this year because he won’t have to guard the other team’s best player this year.” With this quote he did two major things:
1) Didn’t openly called out Bibby for being unable to play defense on many PGs in the league.
2) Put JJ in the same class as Kobe
Whether you agree or not he supports his guys but also calls things like he sees them. We all know that Bibby couldn’t guard many PGs, but we also know he won games for us. JJ isn’t Kobe, but he’s our version. I think players know their own shortcomings, so there’s no need to openly down them. If this is how Woody operates in the locker room, its probably the reason the team has never not played for him. For all I can say about his in game decisions and lack of using players, the guys seem to respect him and play hard. (especially on the defensive end) Because of this, I expect for him to be successful this season. I’m looking forward to seeing how they perform against the big 4! (Lakers, Orlando, Celtics, Cleveland)
GO HAWKS!!
rms
September 28th, 2009
12:23 am
I hear Flip had talks with Cleveland before he chose Charlotte. I wonder what made him chose Charlotte over having a chance to win a ring with the Cavs.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
12:24 am
Kevin,
You can’t look at these things on a micro level. That’s not how NBA teams scout each other, and that’s not taking into account the impact that it would have on the Hawks’ offense relative to the rest of the league. Your “2.5-2.75 attempts per quarter” (which is what 800-900 per year comes down to) is the difference between the Hawks being one of the league’s 5 most backcourt-heavy offensive teams to being one of the league’s 5 most frontcourt-heavy offensive teams.
The macro level is what matters because the micro level loses too much of the context. So answer me this: Do you think the Hawks should be one of the 5 most frontcourt-heavy offensive teams in the league? Do you think that is where our best offensive players lie?
One shot per quarter more for the offense comes out to 328 more during the course of the year. That would put the Hawks right in line with the league average. Why would we want to swing further than that?
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
12:30 am
kwooden1
September 28th, 2009
12:13 am
For all I can say about his in game decisions and lack of using players, the guys seem to respect him and play hard. (especially on the defensive end) Because of this, I expect for him to be successful this season.
Well said, another Hawk plus is being down and fighting back to win or make games close. This only works with good defensive effort.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
12:35 am
To use another analogy – you know all those commercials that say “It’s just $1 per day!” You think “oh, I can afford that. $1 per day isn’t so bad.” Then you realize “geez, that’s $30 a month…and geez, that’s $365/year. I can’t afford that after all…”
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
12:36 am
(And that’s why niremetal doesn’t have cable…)
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
12:41 am
I don’t think we are like the rest of the teams. We are more athletic and are coming into our own. I hope when other teams think of the hawks they know there will be no plays guarding on defense. We should be known as a feared slashing and attacking team that draws a league lead in free throw attempts. Yes I think we need to over balance towards the front court until we establish that capability and respect for that part of our game.
If were successful, the ball will find it’s way back to the front court as teams collapse to guard the paint. Josh, Marvin and Al are on the verge or at this point with their skill level.
I agree with you on ZaZa 100%, he is not ready for the responsibility nor quite has the handle.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
12:47 am
Having JJ, Crawford, Teague, And Bibby at the guards will open up easier baskets for our frontcourt. Our guards will get TONS of attention from opposing teams.
As far as the frontcourt attempts, Al and Smoove are still maturing, the better they get down there, the more the ball will swing their way…..besides, Smooove gets plenty of iso’s on the block.
In the grand sceme of things were still going to win 50+ games this year, and Joe Smith and Jason Collins solve more problems than you realize. They can both hit the midrange J with consistancy. Something Al and Smoove still need to work on. THATS what was hurting our offense, just like Childress did with his inaiblity to consistantly hit the outside jumper.
Look at Boston. Up until they actually won the title in 08′, KG was STILL considered SOFT around the basket and blamed for “not being a closer”. But if you really think about it, it was his ability to consistantly knock down that midrange J that really made that offense consistant. He wasn’t in the paint a whole lot. The same can be said for Glenn “big-baby” Davis in the 09′ season.
So I think it works both ways. A penetrating guard makes the team paint% look better, while a good shooting bigman makes the teams peremetr game look better…and of couse regardless of who takes the shots Bigs or guards, it will still reflect as an overall team stat, as far as atempts/touches are concerned, and in what area of the floor the shot is taken in.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
12:57 am
What would happen if we asked Horford to average 20ppg by scoring 5pts a quater? We would be in trouble, thats what. Things like that, while reasonable, are a little unrealistic. That’s not taking into account who will be difending him in the paint, or the flow of the game. What if Crawford is 50pts-done deal hot one night but we forget about him so Horford can get his 20&10?
We have to take into account matchups, time, flow of the game, and the oppositions defensive scheme/prowess, and even fouls when talking about touches per quater. When you get out there it’s just unrealistic to get things to work out like team stat guru says is ideal for team effeciancy.
Some nights Smoove & Al get tons of touches, and they don’t deliver, some nights its JJ and Bibby who are struggling. You just never know.
Kinda like how The Patriots shot down our run game today (-_-) and Matty Ice had to thow it a whole lot. Thats NEVER Mike Smiths plan, but sometimes you just can’t help it.
….i’m rambling lol…..
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:00 am
Liar Nire pants on fire!!!! How do you watch all those Sixers games then? Borrowing from the neigbors like my cousin Romeo in Alabama huh?
Honestly though, I’d cut the cable if I had to watch the Sixers full-time too ha!
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
1:08 am
A lot of the premise for more balance in my posts was happening anyway. Marvin/Al and Josh all lost much time on the injury dole. If healthy there would have been more balance.
Aroise – to your point – stats are so hard to prove a point when each game has it’s own story. Of course we need to feed who is hot. Who cares where they shoot from.
niremetal
September 28th, 2009
1:08 am
Ariose,
League Pass Broadband, my friend. All NBA games for the full season for $85, and no need to buy a cable package. It’s brilliant.
Sadly, the ATP doesn’t have a comparable package for the Slams
MannyT
September 28th, 2009
1:20 am
@Ariose, in Philly, everyone lives within 5 minutes of a neighborhood bar. Maybe that’s where niremetal watches his televised sports.
@Tron5000-I wasn’t evaluating Shockey’s talent,but his situation. West has been hanging on with the Hawks for a few years as a local favorite. He hasn’t really moved up the rotation and he has to fight harder for his job as his salary increases.
BWAF
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
1:20 am
Maybe we need incentives like 10 assists for a game = free meal for the week. In a 10 game stretch the first player to get 40 pt’s from drives = a lap dance. Two rebounds over their average for 3 games in a row gets a kiss from every cheer leader. You – know – something worth fighting for.
If you miss three in a row you can’t shoot until you get an assist. If you do shoot again and miss – buy meals the next time out. If a front court player makes two buckets in a row and they don’t get the ball for the next four possessions – The back court has to wash their car by hand. Now I am rambling.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:23 am
Nire….
!!!! I may have to look into that! But I still need to record my games lol. Some ppl dont bother watching them again, but I like to at least once the da after a win lol….not the losses…ugh..
Tennis gets snubbed so much lol….but I usually get my fix between the ESPNews updates and the mid-day replays hehehe….
KevinA, yeah I see your point. We had so may frontcourt injuries, it was hard to gain any kind of consistancy on that front.
chemdawg
September 28th, 2009
1:28 am
Sekou,
I absolutely agree the hawks are better with Crawford instead of Flip, but you’re wrong about one thing. Flip annihilated some teams in the second half last year off the bench (especially 4th qtr) and absolutely stole a few games for the hawks filling in as a spot starter. Personally, I remember him being the only one on the floor making shots for minutes at a time. Statistically, here are his top 5 point totals from games last year: 30, 29, 25, 23, 23. And, he scored at least 20 pts. a total of ten times in limited minutes. He absolutely contributed to several of the hawks wins that got them that 4th seed by 4 games over miami.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:29 am
Manny, lol. Your probably right!
of course, Nire is gonna vehmently deny this….but we know the truth 
KevinA, Ha! We should try that in the preseason and see hoe it works. Something tells me that would lead to teammates fighting for some reason hehe….don’t know why.
A lot of Car washes for the backcourt, and A few lap dances for Smoove Hehehe!!!!
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:43 am
KevinA, of course guys like Shaq, Tim Duncan, And on Occasion Dwight Howard are the exceptons….. Like Nique’ says. “Feed Em’ and Fan Em’!!!!”
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:45 am
chemdawg, Exellent post! Like the Black Eyed Peas say, “Where is the Love???” Can my boy Flip get some??? He IS the topic of this blog ya know
Flip For Mayor!!!!!!
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
1:54 am
I am interested in how Coillins will be used. He sounds like a good defensive stopper for those big fellers you just mentioned. Something we have never had for some time. Do you put him in with Al and then bring in Josh with the second unit that he would destroy? Would Josh be mature enough to accept that against big front courts? Would ZaZa have issues? Are we ready for the team concept where players are pieces?
KevinA
September 28th, 2009
2:00 am
Getting back to Flip, if he is hot and causes a loss, there may be interesting blogs to read. lol We avoided that mess last year by Chills playing over seas. It will be interesting to see if we avoid this mess. I expect Larry Brown will give Flip a rip to see if we can stop him. Our work will be cut out for us.
Dashizz357
September 28th, 2009
8:50 am
Flip over Evans anyday, but how much playing time would he really see now with Teague & Crawford backing up the starters! Everyone can’t play and I’m sure Woody won’t have a 11 man rotation without someone complaining about playing time and numbers. Plus I heard Woody being a close friend to Coach Brown referred Flip!
Mike
September 28th, 2009
9:01 am
Sekou, you had me convinced on Stackhouse, despite the lack of an obvious role for him here. I was a bit surprised not to see him on the roster for camp. Do you know where he is?
ILL-logical
September 28th, 2009
9:39 am
In the discussions about the Hawks’ offensive balance, the question might be further detailed by defining what kind of shots are taken by whom and when.
Clearly, if there are fast break,leak out baskets available most often the wings get the majority of those. If, however , the half court set is employed under the current regime, the front court takes the shots.
The Hawks offense would become more”balanced” and potent , if A) the team ran more and B) there was a consistent low post threat that commanded a double team.
A is attainable ; it is a matter of coaching. B is more about the current roster but coaching – designing plays to maximize a players strengths- is a factor as well.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
10:01 am
Great stuff over the weekend Sekou.
Interesting camp selections by the Hawks. Why no Korolev?
Seems like the Hawks will be looking for another guard, but the camp invitees look better in the front court.
I will also assume by your omission that Morris is going to make the team. I guess 800,000k is too much for the team to just eat.
Mac-Town
September 28th, 2009
10:55 am
Man, look I’m going to base this on what I’ve saw.
Mike Bibby is not exactly the best prototype PG anyway.
He had the ability to make big shots and he did, but that was basically all he was good for.
His jump shot is all he has to offer really. His defense and driving/dripping/penetraing skills are well below average…..and he’s an average passer
Flip Murray, like bibby, showed that he was unconscious with his shot, was willing to take the big shots and I remember him hitting many of them
UNLIKE bibby,
flip brought more energy on the court, was a better defender, AT LEAST as much of a vocal leader, and he could actually drive to the hole and penetrate…that would create more chances of gettin free points with the clocked stopped at the line since he would get fouled more going to the hole…..and the simple fact of actually having a guard that will penetrate would give opposing defenses THAT much more to worry about
all of that and Flip was much cheaper than Bibby.
We drafted Teague as the PG of the future, and I would have rather “experimented” with Flip at the point, being that we’d have Teague and Crawford to handle some of the load…and JJ could also run it at times during a game.
We could have used the extra money to improve in other areas like with our BIGs or another swingman.
at this stage of his career, and in comparison to what what Flip offered Vs. what Bibby offers…..(plus financial reasons) Bibby = Overrated
Should have kept Flip and let Bibby go.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
11:36 am
Mac-Town: with player assessments like that, I am sure glad you are not the GM of this team. If you really think that Flip is anywhere near the kind of player as Bibby, you are obviously not watching much basketball. Was Bibby overpaid at $14mil. prob. but his new contract is VERY reasonable.
The whole point of Sekou’s blog was that we need to move on from Flip. He helped while here as a quality ROLE player. He is not a starting pg in the NBA.
Ramon
September 28th, 2009
11:37 am
Mac, you would’ve experimented with Flip at PG, although he was constantly harassed in the back court last season any time he played the position (even by back up PGs)? Flip can’t dribble well enough against pressure defense to be a starting PG. Flip doesn’t make any one on the team better when he’s in the game. Flip gets HIS, and no one else. Bibby is the PG who made every one on the team better when he was added to the equation. That is much more than a jump shot. Do you not remember the game when Bibby was unable to go, and the Hawks offense was nonexistent? Bibby is a liability on defense, but you do not replace a PG like Bibby with Flip ‘I don’t pass’ Murray. Another thing you forgot to add about Bibby is he is one of Woody’s best assistant coach, if not his best one. And you let him walk so Flip can start? That move would’ve surely had the Hawks playing Cleveland in the first round of the play offs to only get swept.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
11:42 am
you do realize that Bibby is making 6 mil this year and Flip is making 2 mil, as a 3rd guard for the Bobcats.
I hear you ramon…. some people will never learn.
Ramon
September 28th, 2009
11:48 am
Daniel, I don’t know what that was about. If Flip was a good pg option, Law would’ve never gotten the playing time that he even got.
Ramon
September 28th, 2009
11:52 am
Last season in the 2 games Flip started he averaged a good 22 ppg, but 5 assists with 4 turn overs. And I think I recall those two games being losses.
Diego
September 28th, 2009
12:01 pm
I am late in the game here and have not read all the posts yet, but Sekou’s take on Flip from last year is off (and a bit disturbing). Sekou indeed must have had his head in the popcorn during a few games last year because Flip simply did win a few games for the Hawks last year. Give credit where credit is due. The Hawks would have been hurting w/o Flip as basically first guard (point or shooting) off the bench and a very dependable scorer.
Mike is back
September 28th, 2009
12:10 pm
Sekou, I seen you at the Dream game during the playoff…I thought I witness the rebirth of Latta…she played like she did back in her UNC days. They made great strides…u got it made. I see yo wolverines made the polls…congratulation.
Don’t get to write much but always enjoy the reading. Big ups to the guys that keep things rolling during the down time…its hard to believe that training camp is about to kick off…great time to be in the ATL!!!!
I like what I’m hearing from Woody. I expect to see some different wrinkles from Woodson this season he has a deeper pool of talent to work with…I believe those are obtainable goals he set for his team…he sounds like a man on a mission. He has to be thrilled with the talent he has going into to camp. They could very well challenge the big three. I think Orlando will miss Turkolu more than they think…there could be some serious chemistry issues for Orlando…the same could be said for Cleveland. This could open the door for the Hawks.
I wish Flip the best of luck with the Bobcats except when he plays us of course. lol
I don’t see where Woody could have given Flip minutes without limiting Teague. I think he learned from the situation with Acie. I think it was the drafting of Teague that made Flip expendable, not the trade for Crawford. Sund made the right move.
Teague will quiet all this chatter about Flip anyway…as for Crawford…I seen the clips guys was posting of Crawford but most of us Hawks fan should be able to remember the ease as which Crawford use to score on the Hawks when he was in the NY. This guy can light it up…just what the doctor ordered if you are the Hawks.
I can see Crawford in combinations with JJ, Bibby, Mo or Teague…depending on foul trouble or injury. They all play a different style of ball. That is yet another reason you don’t need another combo guard like Flip. As Teague continue to impress in camp…I look for the Hawks to go with emergency backup help at the 4 and 5 to fill out the roster. I’m looking for a 14 man roster. I’m still pulling for Siler and Othella to make the squad but I think the other 6’11” guy Sekou was talking about in a previous blog might knock one of these cats out. If you are the Hawks, you can’t have enough Bigs if you want to seriously compete for the Eastern Conference Title.
Nire, before you go into attack mode…excuse the English brooooooooooooo. Yeah, Big Ray…nothing worst than some Gremlin checking your English. Ooooops. heh heh
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
12:11 pm
Sekou,
In practices, does Bibby need double team help to stop Teague?
Ramon
September 28th, 2009
12:12 pm
Raja Bell is on the trading block. So I’m curious, who would you guys rather have, Evans or Bell? It would be a dream if Bobcats took Morris for him lol.
rob
September 28th, 2009
12:18 pm
Its it true that we have a pre season game on ESPN Oct. 23 againts Orlando?
rob
September 28th, 2009
12:26 pm
Because if we do, thats when we can see how much better Atlanta is then the Magic!
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
12:34 pm
Ramon- I would rather have Bell, although Mo has more size (I believe) so he is better for SF help. If we got Bell for Morris (HA!) then Sund is automatically GM of the year. Where did you hear he was on the block? What is his contract status?
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
12:54 pm
Was Sekou instructed to turn off his twitter at the hawks training camp today? Where did he disappear?
no name
September 28th, 2009
12:59 pm
1. Boston
2. Cleaveland
3. Atlanta
4. Orlando
5. Detroit
6. healthy Washington
7. Toranto
8. Heat
Ramon
September 28th, 2009
1:03 pm
Daniel, http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/120433-bobcats-shopping-bell the source came from Yahoo! Sports.
no name
September 28th, 2009
1:05 pm
Maybe Bobcats get in the playoffs and take the Heat out.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:27 pm
Speaking of Mike Bibby lol:
Mike Bibby, where winning doesn’t solve anything:
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/28/1058603/mike-bibby-where-winning-doesnt
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:29 pm
Guys there is no actual “playing” today. It’s Media day for the Hawks… and it starts a 4:00pm I beleive…
no name
September 28th, 2009
1:37 pm
I work for Phillips Arena do you guys want free tickets?
Let me know.
?
September 28th, 2009
1:44 pm
Who is better Mike Bibby or Mo Williams?
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
1:54 pm
72 reasons to be excited about the Atlanta Hawks: #34 The optimism of training camp
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/28/1058573/72-reasons-to-be-excited-about-the
Sautee
September 28th, 2009
2:36 pm
Mac-town,
The most important stat for PGs is assist to turnover ratio. You call Bibby an average passer. Maybe so, but his A / TO ratio was 5.0-1.6 which was 8th in the league among qualifiers. The absolute best thing Bibby brought was his ball control.
Flip didn’t have enough assists to qualify, but among all players he was 220th with a 2.0 – 1.6 ratio. THAT’s why Bibby was re-signed. He takes care of the ball.
I do agree that Flip gave us aggressiveness on offense. All last year I repeatedly said that he was our most confident shooter.
I’m quite sure that Crawford will fill that role nicely.
But here’s an overlooked stat for Bibby. When he joined the team we immediately dropped our turnovers by about 2 per game! That can make ALL the difference in a tight game. Two extra possessions for the opposition can easily spell doom.
Flip by contrast was fairly loosey-goosey with the ball. WAY too many TO’s for him to be a starting pg. Yes, he gave good value, but he struggled when he played the 1, in my view, because it robbed him of his aggressiveness on offense.
But the worst thing was his propensity to turn it over at inopportune moments.
Adieu, Flip. Have a good year except when we play you.
jerrywest
September 28th, 2009
3:01 pm
Flip is one of the best 5th guards in the roster ever.
Bibby is one of the best shooting point guards ever.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
3:44 pm
uh… No Name sure, who doesn’t want free tickets!
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
3:53 pm
Ramon- I don’t see what the Hawks could offer to get Bell. Even if we gave them MO and RandMo, I think we would be taking on too much salary. Bell is slated to make 6 mil this year. Nice thought I just don’t see it happening.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
3:55 pm
Of the five guys on Sekou’s list. Pre-camp: I go with Hunter and West. Although Robinson or Dixon may get a good shot if they perform, because I know Sund wants another pg.
Daniel
September 28th, 2009
3:55 pm
?: Mike Bibby
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:00 pm
Bibby and Marvin tal W/790 the zone
http://twitpic.com/jimvn
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:05 pm
Micah Heart:
“I asked Jamal Crawford what his best game was, and he said the 52 he hung on Miami as a Knick. He made 16 straight shots that game. 16!”
He did b/c Dwayne Wade deserved it….
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:09 pm
IDK what Lamar Odum was thinking!!! No prenup and She ain’t even the hot one. He married least attractive one!!! o_0 And what does she actuall DO for a living other than live her life out on TV???
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_liehttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:11 pm
& The ONLY dated for 4 weeks!!!!
Maaan she’s going straight to the bank when they divorce in six months…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:12 pm
Nire, you may want to get in touch with Lamar so you can get a lil peice of that dough when it all goes shouth hehehe!!!
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:14 pm
….I bet she’s pregnant…..that’s gotta be it…You can’t be that rich and make quick decisions on women like that. His Divorce proceedings are gonna cost the lakers a Title lol…..well, they weren’t going to win it all this year anyway….
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
5:16 pm
Photo gallery from today’s Media Day activities:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/photogallery/2009_media_day_092809.html
JerryWest
September 28th, 2009
5:31 pm
Bibby and Sekou look big.
Smoove & Zaza look trim.
JJ looks as emotionless as ever.
The Truth
September 28th, 2009
5:35 pm
Ariose
Sekou said that Mo Evans had bulked-up over the summer and looked bigger. From the photo of him, I didn’t notice any difference. I need a second set of eyes, what do you think?
JerryWest
September 28th, 2009
5:54 pm
Bibby looks like he did some bench pressing this summer. Hopefully he can guard some shooting guards with his stronger body. That way he can play next to Crawford and the skinny Crawford can guard the point guard. Hopefully the extra muscles will also keep Bibby injury free.
Othelo and Mo got some biceps.
A Thinking Fan
September 28th, 2009
5:55 pm
Has the season started yet? When’s Game Time?
moni j
September 28th, 2009
5:57 pm
I’m devastated to hear the news of Flip leaving! I thought he stepped in and stepped up when everyone else was losing team spirit???
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
5:58 pm
Bibby looks like he just got that check… boy been eating good…
bigdave
September 28th, 2009
6:00 pm
dont look like muscle to me… unless he is on that Sherman Clump weight program… with the candy bar curls…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:01 pm
Truth, Nah For his size, how much bigger can he get lol…Mo said, he didn’t gain weight, he just made his mass more solid so that he won’t lose it duing the season. Whatever that means
lol
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:21 pm
Micah Hear blogs about Hawks Media Day:
http://www.hawksbasketblog.com/2009/09/28/hawks-media-day-kicks-off-2009-10-season/
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
6:31 pm
*Heart
The Truth
September 28th, 2009
6:49 pm
Al Horford is a beast!! He looks bigger; must been hitting the weight room.
?
September 28th, 2009
6:52 pm
Crawford has to get more minutes an Bibby less.
?
September 28th, 2009
7:01 pm
and Bibby less.
The Truth
September 28th, 2009
7:01 pm
Ariose
The way Sekou described Mo; I was expecting to see a mini incredible hulk. I hope his new mass works out for him; It better because Wade will be gunning and looking for a new poster child to make a fashion statement.
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
8:03 pm
New Blog up…
Ariose
September 28th, 2009
8:05 pm
Truth, lol That’s for sure.
JoeH
September 29th, 2009
1:10 pm
We are going to MISS Flip….His “grit” forced others to raise there toughness bar…
However, we have a much improved club.
But, why haven’t we heard any more about the Stackhouse possibility…one way or the other?
Grip
October 11th, 2009
2:05 am
Seku you missed the point on FLIP, for his salary we got a closer in games at the end, let’s not kid ourselves, Bibby can not check a soul, Flip was brought in many times last year for this reason, Joe is a reluctant superstar at times, Flip ain’t perfect but he is never scared. Josh Childress was never asked to win games for the hawks or handle the ball down the stretch, I wanted Chills back too, but we all know he never did or was asked to those types of things, you commented that Flip never one any games for the hawks, dude I have not a clue what you were watching, When it was not Joe or Bibby who was it? Marvin can not handle the rock and Al plays PF in a guard orientated offense, and the iceing on the cake is flip only cost a couple of million, Would you have another center for Jamal Crawford salary and keep Flip or go with what we have? Any discussion of Flip must include his small salary, and i promise you he will haunt the hell out of us in Charlotte.
Grip
October 11th, 2009
2:08 am
I forgot about mo evans, he was a good player last year, but dude is useless on the offensive end, He is strickly a jump shooter, he gives us nothing off the dribble, almost the same as Marvin,This is the NBA, a player that can get his own shot is nothing to sneeze at.