Flip’s gone, time for camp
Flip Murray and Mike Woodson had a great year together, but that's history now. Murray has moved on to Charlotte and the Hawks are on the eve of training camp with a different mix of players.
HAWKSVILLE – One last time, Flip Murray is gone.
It’s over. And it’s official.
Take one last good look at him in his Hawks uniform (above next to Hawks coach Mike Woodson) and then move on.
Charlotte’s gain is the Hawks’ loss, until you scan the recently released training camp roster and realize that guys that the man replacing Flip as the Hawks’ third guard is a player that by any measure is a far better player. Whether or not he’s a better fit on this team remains to be seen. But anyone making the argument for Flip over Jamal Crawford needs to clean the lenses on their BlueBlockers.
And don’t get me wrong, I think was extremely valuable to the Hawks’ cause last season. He was a great fit at the perfect time for a team that desperately needed a tough guy with a no-nonsense attitude coming off the bench to help energize their second unit. But this idea that Flip won games for the Hawks last season is make believe.
It never happened.
Would I have love to see Flip remain in a Hawks uniform? Sure. That would have been ideal. But him moving on to a one-year deal with the Bobcats doesn’t shift the balance of power in the Southeast Division either.
Now there are plenty of people within the Hawks organization that disagree with me. They’ve been arguing me down all summer about Flip. They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.
In fact, I’d argue that Mo Evans was every bit as crucial to the Hawks’ 47-win season of a year ago. He was actually pressed into service as a starter (for an injured Marvin Williams (and the Hawks won roughly 67 percent of the games in which Evans started). Flip was never called upon to shoulder the load of say a Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson for an extended stretch of the season.
I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …
TRAINING CAMPERS
The training camp roster stands at 20 players, right at the number expected. Can’t say that there are any surprise names on the list either. You know the regulars, the guys already under guaranteed contracts for this season. What deserves further scrutiny is the eight players on the training camp roster that are looking for work. A brief breakdown of each guy and the initial outlook of his chances of securing that 13th roster spot (and perhaps the 14th if someone makes a definitive case for sticking around):
JUAN DIXON – The internal concerns about the Hawks’ point guard depth is reflected in the number of veteran guards on the camp roster, highlighted by this veteran guard. Dixon has never carved a niche for himself as a starting point guard but he’s been a factor on several teams as a situational combo guard. He’ll need a huge showing in camp to snag a roster spot.
OTHELLO HUNTER — Having already made the team this way a year ago, Hunter knows the odds are stacked against him sticking this year. The Hawks are deeper in the frontcourt and they’re not as likely to keep a developmental player on the roster if they’re only going to keep 13 players. Still, Hunter has improved as much anyone on the roster from this time a year ago. And with a strong camp, he could force the Hawks to consider keeping him.
AARON MILES – Miles made an appearance on the Hawks’ practice court during the workout season before the 2005 draft but has been basically a pro basketball journeyman since then. He’s a competitor and the kind of guy that always raises the meter defensively but he would appear to be an extreme long-shot to be here beyond the end of camp.
FRANK ROBINSON – One of the more intriguing players you’ll see in camp, Robinson continues to impress with his all-around skill (think a more skilled offensive player with Mario West-like energy). If you see him in action on a daily basis you keep asking yourself, “why isn’t this guy on someone’s roster?” Then you remember his problem is like most guys his size that play his position, they’d have to face the likes of Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Joe Johnson on a nightly basis in the league. But keep an eye on Mr. Robinson. He’ll turn some heads.
GARRET SILER – Augusta’s Finest is looking svelte these days, somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds or so, per one of my spies. He’s going to make you take notice because he’s usually going to be the biggest man in the room or on the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s not skilled, because he is. And that doesn’t mean the Hawks aren’t serious about gauging his long-term potential, because they are. Training camp and the preseason schedule will be the true test for Siler. If he proves he can hold up against top-flight competition over the course of the next month it’ll be hard to send him packing.
COURTNEY SIMS – I’m giving Sims the early nod as the favorite for the MOST SURPRISING CAMPER award. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he spent undergrad in Ann Arbor toiling for the Michigan basketball program. Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has matured tremendously since college. His frame (6-11 and 240 pounds) is much sturdier now and he has a face-up game that stretches beyond the 3-point line (if needed). I want to see how he deals with Al Horford and Josh Smith on a daily basis in camp.
MARIO WEST – If folks thought West was fighting for his life to make the roster the last two years, you’d be wise to pop some popcorn for the show I expect him to put on this time around. No one outworks the maniacal former Georgia Tech standout. While he’s been nursing some nagging injuries in recent weeks, there’s no doubt he’ll crank up the energy next week. The sticking point for West, however, is his salary number. As a rookie and second year player, with a salary under $1 million, West was a fantastic investment. Three years in, though, and his roughly $1 million price tag seems a bit high (to some) for a player that you know probably won’t play much unless there are injury catastrophes in the backcourt.
MIKE WILKS – Like Dixon, Wilks looks more like veteran point guard insurance. And he’s had stints with several teams that proved he could be a legitimate NBA contributor. But the idea of another 6-foot (or thereabouts) point guard on a team that already boasts Bibby and promising rookie Jeff Teague just doesn’t add up. Barring an absolutely stunning performance in camp, I have a hard time justifying a spot for Wilks or any other undersized point guard.
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287 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:38 pm
“They already have great chemistry, and I don’t want to mess that up,” he said. “I’m probably going to shock some people with my passing. I love to be the set-up man, so I can work in whatever capacity coach needs me to. What I do know is that you can have all the talent in the world, but if the chemistry isn’t right, you won’t go anywhere. I’ve lived through that before in New York. So we have to come in and blend right to help get it done.”
There goes our coach-killer, already plotting Woody’s demise……
That might include some shuffling of responsibilities, including Johnson moving from shooting guard to small forward so Woodson can deploy essentially a three-guard attack at times. “I have some combinations now that I can play with,” he said. “However I decide to go will be based on who’s giving us what we need on a given night and how all these guys are playing.”
Hot damn. Say what I have about Woody and his offensive capabilities, etc….I like the sound of what he’s saying NOW. And I like what Sund has given him to work with in that backcourt. It ain’t perfect (the defense is still a big question mark) but it looks way better than it has in 5 or more years. There may be some growing pains, and that is to be expected, but if Woody can get the right combinations at the right times, other teams will be far more worried about how to defend us, than we will about defending THEM. Work that mojo, Woody…..
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:44 pm
MannyT ,
Well, we actually managed to get the name changed, so now it’s “Hawks Fan Nest”, representing the forum as a fan forum, rather than putting the focus on ourselves. As for whether it’s the two of us, it still is. Ando’s around….somewhere…Ando? Ando! Heh heh heh….Anyway, no term limits that I’m aware of, though there will be some things done a bit differently, as you’ll see. Looking forward to seeing you there (as well as here, obviously).
Ando vs. Niremetal ? We might just have to set that up….pardon me while I put on my Don King tupee, as there is no way I can make my normally short cut do what his does…
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
11:51 pm
I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks I would suggest for a second – even in jest – that the Hawks should trade JJ…well that person obviously doesn’t pay attention to the blog comments.
Ray,
I don’t know…the purse would have to be pretty big to entice me to step into the ring with Ando for 12 rounds
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
11:56 pm
I see the local blog gremlin has latched onto Niremetal for the moment. That IS pretty funny, as I think there is only a very small handful that could actually imitate him well. Even then, it’s not a cake walk. Ah, well. Entertainment comes in all forms, I guess.
Such a hubbub about Flip. We’ll miss him, but not for what he does on the court, because we have made up for that, I believe. He was/is a good guy, and I’m glad to see him get a good job (with a raise), with a good coach. He deserved it. I would have HATED to see him have to go overseas.
This shows you just how bad it has been for the organization in the recent past. Most teams, especially the decent ones, have a guy who comes off the bench and produces. We didn’t have that for so long, that when Chill left, we thought the world was over, even though we got Evans and Murray. Now that Murray is leaving, we’re acting like the world is over, even though we got Crawford. At some point (hopefully anyway), we’ll be used to winning, and used to having a good balanced roster. Then, if a player leaves and is replaced, we won’t go so nutty. I hope that time has come upon us.
As for JJ, dude knows the system and what to do. I’m more interested in how healthy he is, and how mentally ready he is to share the burden on offense. I could care less what he’s been twittering. The contract situation is nothing new. Happens with teams’ top players all the time. The man doesn’t have to rush, he has all season to get things done. Or NOT done.
Here’s the part that we sometimes forget when we’re praising Sund for his efficiency and foresight: this is the same guy who has to figure out how to keep us in happy land with or without Joe Johnson. I’m not even getting into whether the world revolves around JJ or if this team can still be a playoff contender that can build on success without him. I’m just saying that the show goes on, and you figure out how to do just that.
Sund shouldn’t go into this with the mindset that the world ends if JJ doesn’t sign the extension. He should be thinking of how to still turn that into a winning situation if possible, or how to best recoup if NOT possible.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:00 am
Nire ,
Such thoughts would suggest what I said: blog gremlin. And you don’t need anymore hints than that , lol.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:27 am
“I don’t have to burn guys,” Woodson acknowledged. “Last year, yeah, I burnt guys. I have to try and play Joe differently this year. I look at the Lakers and what they did by getting Ron Artest, and all I can think is that Kobe is going to be a beast this year because he won’t have to guard the other team’s best player this year. Artest can handle that. Somehow I have to relieve Joe of having to guard point guards. And in that regard hopefully we’ll be able to shrink not only his minutes but everybody’s minutes and make sure they remain productive and they don’t lose anything.”
“What it does is give you ability to attack from all angles once you get a defensive stop and push the ball up the floor,” Woodson said. “You have shooters all around. All these guys can make shots. It makes you feel good about pushing the ball because the guy with the ball in his hands has so many options.”
VERY interesting comments from Woody. Sounds like he is more confident and comfortable doing things we’ve complained about in the past. I would love to see this FOLLOW THROUGH. Especially the part about cutting minutes back on the starters to keep them fresh (particularly Joe) WITHOUT cooling their games down, getting Joe away from having to guard point guards, and pushing the ball whenever possible and optimal.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
12:29 am
Gotta get some sleep, Falcons are playing tomorrow.
By the way, if anybody wants a good place to talk Falcon football, and doesn’t want to get attacked by the normal rabid hate baters, go to this AJC fan forum- Falcons: The Bird Cage . That’s a happenin’ spot.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
12:58 am
Ray, Loved your 11:56pm post can I get an Amen!!!?
As for Woody, There’s hope, but I won’t hold my breath.
Nire, smart move….even though i’m sure the Lawyer in you disagrees ha!
Ray, I think I might just venture over there for a little Falcon Blogging tomorrow lol…
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
1:47 am
Woody makes this statement:
“Somehow I have to relieve Joe of having to guard point guards.”
I’m not sure I follow. Joe only guarded PG when Woody went into a mode of attack on offense by playing JJ at the PG position to create a mismatch. It is a Woody offense strategy that causes Joe to defend the PG as a consequence. Woody is spinning this (to the press) as if he was reacting to defenses by playing JJ on PGs when he is actually creating the situation with his offense strategy.
Maybe with our new players and their scoring abilities, he scraps this favor of the ISO strategy anyway since JJ never fully exploited the mismatch. When I mean fully, I mean to a point where JJ dominated the PG. The cost of JJ getting beat by quicker PGs and getting worn down defending them obtain outweighed the few times he did beat them in isolations. Joe is such a big SG, that he will create a mismatch straight-up (most of the time) with the SG defender. So creating the PG mismatch involving JJ may not be necessary with our new lineup.
With Teague in the mix, hopefully he can guard the quicker PGs and make them pay on offense as well.
moboman
September 27th, 2009
3:40 am
should be an interesting preseason. who knows maybe a deal upcoming in the backup roles.
jhan
September 27th, 2009
9:03 am
Truth – JJ was forced to guard PG’s all season due to Bibby’s slow feet. It really had nothing to do with the offensive scheme I don’t think. Teague should definitely help in that aspect. Also Crawford should be able guard PG’s for some minutes.
Great to hear Woody talk about “burning out” his starters. Wonder how his supporters who denied those claims all last season will spin that one?
Somehow I think this team is going to be tough to beat this season – even without a 7′ beast at Center.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 27th, 2009
9:31 am
“”You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it.”
Sekou, I mean, why would people be complaining? Must be overusing our starters?
Didn’t think of that
My bad
Mario West
September 27th, 2009
9:45 am
Things are not looking good for me, I think the NBA is over for me.
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
9:48 am
jhan
Forgot about Bibby slow feet; But usually when JJ picked-up the PG player (in that scenario) it was a result of opponents set screen plays and our switching defense. I didn’t think it was a dedicated assignment for JJ because of Bibby shortcomings. If Bibby becomes that much of reliability he really needs to come off the bench. With our new offensive weapon, I think we really need to re-think our whole offensive strategy as Al Horford touch on during his remarks.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
11:07 am
Truth,
Not sure which Hawks (expect Milwaukee, Ridnour) games you been watching but JJ has always been assign to defend the oppossing team PGs. Bibby need to help Woody/JJ and step up to the task to defend other teams PGs…
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 27th, 2009
11:28 am
Never heard of a blog gremlin before. Dang, only on the Hawks blog huh! Interesting that the gremlin doesn’t show up on the Falcons blog. Must be someone that likes to irritate Hawks fans. Although, the idiot should know that most Hawks fans are Falcons fans too. Thanks for clearing that up Big Ray. Next time I read ignorant comments or comments that just doesn’t make any sense I’ll just ignore it and not even respond. LOL!
Almost time for Frank Caliendo, Terry Bradshaw, Michael Strahan, Howie Long, and Jimmy Johnson can’t miss their predictions. My prediction Falcons over Patriots. Ha!
readWoodson's dreams my lips
September 27th, 2009
12:39 pm
It would have been nice if the AJC poll had an option to ask if the hawks would only make it to the second round and then out. The pollster intentionally left this out. That is the concenus of the pojection the Hawks bow out in the secound round. By the way Woody hate crew:
Bob
September 27th, 2009
12:39 pm
Can anybody tell who is the gremlin?
Tron5000
September 27th, 2009
12:46 pm
@MannyT: The concept is the same. People are pushed out of jobs because their skills are not deemed by their employer to be worthy of the amount they must be paid. There is a supply of workers available, but the demand for their salary is not warranted. Supply-demand works across the entire spectrum.
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
1:50 pm
Melvin
What about Miami, LA Lakers, Orlando, Boston, NJ just to name a few.
loyalhawktillidie
September 27th, 2009
2:10 pm
yea the hawks se division champs but im not sure how that will happen im not sure but i think there might be a team named the magic in the same division i have to check on that but im pretty sure there gonna rape us come on guy be realistic will come in second place(division) and forth overall in the east
Brian
September 27th, 2009
3:28 pm
Sekou was a bit of a hypocrite in his post….especially considering how much he felt that Flip deserved a considerable raise from his 1.5 million dollar salary last year in other articles that he wrote. Last season was the first season that Flip was given a specific role and he did well. On almost every other team he has ever been on he has been asked to put up All-Star numbers when a starter was out with injury but the moment that starter returned he was relegated to garbage minutes. The reason why that was the case was because Murray never carried himself like a bench player – and that has problem hurt him more than it has helped him.
I would like to have seen him play for a team that could have contended for a division crown, but even at age 30, when given starters minutes Flip is still capable of consistent big scoring nights. I understand why Atlanta didn’t want to bring him back with the logjam that they have in the backcourt. But to dismiss his stabilizing locker room presence last year would be stupid. Notorious knuckleheads like Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia I saw really listening to Flip last year.
Is Jamal Crawford really that much of an upgrade over Flip? Considering the fact that Jamal has yet to play in a playoff game and that the Warriors were willing to take the Hawks worst just to get him off of their roster I wouldn’t make that assumption just yet. Flip, despite his shortcomings, has always had the respect of his teammates. It seems to me that Crawford has always been walking to the beat of his own drum – and that is why every coach that Crawford has played for has preferred for him to play somewhere else.
We shall see about this season. The team has obvious improved on paper. But games aren’t won on paper….and being that Woodson feels slighted for not being given another contract extension I can imagine that this team may not have as good as chemistry as the 2008-2009 version.
Best of luck to Flip. People have a hard time pulling for underdogs that have much more confidence than they would ever have when the world is counting them out. I expected much better from Sekou but now I know better.
Josh Smith
September 27th, 2009
3:37 pm
Trade Joe Johnson!
Hoops
September 27th, 2009
3:55 pm
Wouldn’t it be funny if the Hawks had a fantastic season and really over achieved to win the East? Then LeBron decided to come to the Hawks as a FA! Can you imagine the excitment in the ATL? O’kay, time to come back to reality.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
3:58 pm
Truth,
Miami/LA only out of that group b/c you wouldnt have Bibby guard Kobe or Dwade…
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
4:47 pm
Truth,
The whole issue with JJ guarding opposing pgs was even admitted by Woody. You arguing with Woody??
Jhan ,
“Great to hear Woody talk about “burning out” his starters. Wonder how his supporters who denied those claims all last season will spin that one?”
I agree. I was glad to hear Woody recognize that issue as well. As for those who denied that (and other valid claims), I doubt you will hear one single word. I seem to recall several smart a$$ comments and straw arguments along those lines. Now, just silence….
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
4:49 pm
Against Boston, Joe had to guard Pierce or Allen. Against New Jersey, he had to switch between Vince and Devin Harris. In Orlando, there was no need to guard the pg. Miami and L.A. should be self explanatory, but Melvin has it pegged right anyhow.
Melvin
September 27th, 2009
5:16 pm
Ray,
When the Hawks played the Nets, Bibby guarded Bobby Simmons. Against the Celtics, he guards Ray. As long as the opposing team PG wasn’t quick or like to post then Bibby would be assigned to him. However I’m glad to hear Woodson confuse to overplaying JJ and havent him guard the toughest defensive assignment. Now lets see what he does about it…
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
5:23 pm
Scroll alert for the less econ inclined.
@Tron5000–A strong answer to the difference in regular people min wage versus, high reward work minimum wage comes from Freakonomics. Check out this blurb about drug dealers living at home. It is similar to the extreme of sports athlete jobs without price floors. For the high potential reward job, people will accept lower wages and higher risk starting points.
There’s a lot more I could say, but the blog would collectively
in a MAJOR WAY.
I understand the lack of appreciation for wage floors, but they do serve a purpose…often less to do with individual capitalism, but more to do with macroeconomic capitalism.
I am glad that Mario gets a chance to go after a job with the Hawks, but it is true that the stakes change as the minimum salary increases. DJ Shockley was in a similar situation when the Falcons made their August roster cuts.
BWAF
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
5:28 pm
@Ray–remember Woody ALWAYS sounds good this time of year. When the rubber hits the road, he will do whatever he thinks is necessary to win games now. The good news is that it makes sense for him to keep his gig. The bad news may come in Joe’s next contract if he looks like 31 going on 41 as some guys do when they fall off their prime years.
You cannot run guys into the ground forever.
BWAF
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
6:14 pm
yes, flip did help us win 47 games, but wit’ flip, we only won 16 road games las’ year!! and we won 12 road games the year before that, wit’ out flip. so havin’ flip increased our road wins by 4 games? and we were way below .500 on the road. BYE FLIP!! THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES!!
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
7:35 pm
MannyT ,
Trust me, bro’. I have not forgotten at all. Here’s the trick- opening your mouth and saying it now can come back and bite you if you don’t stay true to your word. He’s in his contract year. Based on what we’ve seen in the past, if I were Woody, I wouldn’t say things like he’s said. I’d simply put my head down and do the work. Then, at the end of the line, you can say you simply did what you had to do. If you’re a conspiracy theorist and think Sund or the ASG is looking to can the guy simply because they haven’t extended him yet, then you would also have to say that Woody’s words are playing him right into Sund’s hands.
See, the argument has forever been that “it’s all about the players” and Woody could do this or that, but he doesn’t have the players to do it with. There is a great deal of merit to that argument (though it ain’t quite bullet-proof). But here you have Woody saying he NOW has all these options, and all of this quality depth. What happens then, if he (and the team) does not succeed in the way that management/ownership expects him to? Worse yet, what happens if he does what he normally does, and that doesn’t work? That’s why I’m both glad to hear him say what he did (recognizing issues that we all know have existed for some time), but would have cautioned him against saying “I have what I need to work with now” too loudly….but hey, like the article states, he has no problems speaking his mind.
I can tell you this much, he’s going to have a hard time explaining things if like you said, Joe gets burned down to ashes again, or there are major chemistry problems between frontcourt and backcourt (and no, I doubt these will have to do with Crawford), or the team doesn’t run nearly as much as it could. All I can say is that it better be clearly a player problem (trade somebody’s disruptive butt if that’s the case). Even then, it comes back to Woody if he’s not careful. Because the question that comes up is, does he have control of the team? A fine line to walk. Better to work than talk.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
7:36 pm
Ariose ,
‘Preciate it! I was hoping I would get a point across without getting labeled a “JJ Hater.”
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
8:23 pm
Something we don’t talk about much. What if JJ likes the iso dribble. We all say we want a leader (while JJ is thinking, just give me the rock, I am the best player on the team and quit griping about what I do best).
Sure that may lead to a little standing around and less offensive rebounds. Would we have made the play offs without the JJ iso? If Woody tells Bibby to quit running the offense through JJ and we get off to a slow start do you think the bloggers will be patient or blame Woody.
What if Crawford doesn’t play any better than Flip, Teague needs three years of development and we don’t get the organic growth we expect out of Josh/ Marvin, Al and ZaZa. Will it be ok to go back the JJ iso if it means more wins?
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
8:37 pm
Just to make my record is clear – lol – I expect organic growth from Josh/Marvin/ZaZa and Al. I expect close to 800-900 less attempts for the back court over all. If that causes chemistry problems, then there is a problem. If I am Sund and I am paying over 30 million for 4 back court guards, I would expect them to be able to pass. Not only that but make good passes that take advantage of their skills. JJ/Crawford/Bibby/Teague listening? Save your coaches job. Get -er-done.
Doug
September 27th, 2009
8:44 pm
KevinA: The reality is JJ is not explosive enough to iso all night….there are other really good options out there …and by playing slow the Hawks are playing “back” to teams that do not have the athleticism to play with them in a quick game. It’s not “a little” standing around….it is a ton of standing around, and most of it with there best slasher-finisher, JS, planted behind the 3 pt line apparently with Woody’s blessing!
As to the rest of your entry….Crawford always has and will again be vastly superior to Flip….Teague will surely need some seasoning but he is not to be lconfused with Acie…he is a PLAYER!! Organic development??? I believe that Marvin will be much better…Josh will be somewhat better…and Zaza will be Zaza
MannyT
September 27th, 2009
9:23 pm
For all the figuring and posturing, I expect Woody to look better as a coach because he can let this more talented, seasoned bunch of players, just play. If something goes bad, his biggest responsibility will be putting the 5 on the floor and managing minutes. He won’t be forced to call lots of plays. He will be forced to figure out good matchups.
All that said, I think he’ll be successful this season. Well enough to get his extension.
His model for success has not changed…it is the Chuck Daly Pistons. Scoring from the backcourt, ride the hot hand, get just enough from the front court to keep teams off balance.
Even though these are more the good boys than the bad boys, maybe they can get a theme song. They can even rif it from the Cops theme.
@Brian–I think Woody hopes to get that additional veteran presence from Joe Smith and Jason Collins. I do think that Flip deserved a raise, but he was a victim of addition by subtraction. Teague was the preferred draft pick. If it had been a big man, that would have worked in Flip’s favor. Crawford was the best deal they could get while getting rid of Claxton & Law. If that deal had brought them a big man, then someone else may have needed to go.
If Bibby goes elsewhere, maybe Flip is here. Putting all 3 situations together, Flip got bumped. It ain’t personal, it’s business.
BWAF
yeah buddy!!!!!
September 27th, 2009
9:33 pm
Well if u guys want to kno whats going on with JOE, well to start off, he’s in the best shape of his NBA career, more stronger, he added alot of muscle over the summer, also he’s had alot going on with a close family member health that is failing, and he lost his agent that been with him since day one, and that takes a toll on a person life, but i promise you this year u will get the best player out of him, a new attitude, a new focus on the game, and a new look, body looks like T.O.
and hes been spendin time in and out of state traing with different guys,gyms and with major shooting coaches, and i know yall havent seen him because he had a 10yr class reunion in Little Rock,AR this past weekend he attended the historic Little Rock Central High School. Theres no need to worry he’s very happy about this season, and i promise this is going to be the best season yall seen as hawks fans, Peace out!!!!!
The Truth
September 27th, 2009
9:41 pm
Big Ray
You missed my point. I didn’t mean to suggest JJ never guarded PG. I’m suggesting he was not dedicated to a PG for any great length of time. It would just be for occasional looks to run ISO Joe. Also, with the Hawks switching defense at any given time, any Hawk player could be guarding someone else. JJ is mostly guarding the SG which is usually the toughest assignment (D Wade, Kobe, R. Allen, V Carter, etc.) that’s all. You are suggesting he’s dedicated all the time to guys like Nelson, Rondo, and Harris etc. This is not rocket science. Yes, I questioned Woody. He has been known to make political statements in front of the media for various reasons. However, this statement is really no big deal. I’m guessing he was just laying the groundwork for reducing JJ minutes perhaps.
A Tribe Called Quest
September 27th, 2009
10:18 pm
I think we can blame Woodson partially for Smoove’s lack of a development of key areas of his game.
Why has Woodson/Sund not hired someone to work with Smoove EVERY summer on elements of his game that stink? What did Hakeem do for Smoove a few summers ago? We need Smoove to work with a big man coach who can teach him a jumpshot and post defense and dribbling, or else it’ll be another waste of a year for the 2nd best athlete in the NBA
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
10:20 pm
KEVINA, BIG RAY, NIRE,
if we don’t re-sign jj, do you let him walk at the end of the year and get nothin’? or do you trade in feb. and get some value, regardless of our we are rollin’ as a team?
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:30 pm
Truth, I think you are refering to the offensive side of things. No JJ did not play PG on that side of the ball. He just guarded bigger/faster PG’s on the defensive side of the ball like Chauncey Billups and Devon Harris.
Yeah Buddy!!, Thanks for the JJ update. I know about his agent passing, but not the rest of the info you posted.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:36 pm
Truth, Ususally(Take the Raptors for example) Joe would Guard Jose Calderon(because of his playmaking ability and 3pt shooting) and Bibby would guard the player who usually just spots up(In this case, it’s Anthony Parker or Jason Kapono). That gives us the best opourtunity to succeed on the defensive end.
Now when we play a team like Boston, Bibby HAS TO guard Rondo b/c the Celtics are too talented at the wing positions(Allen/Perice) for JJ worry about guarding Rondo.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:38 pm
Bibby gets the spot-up guy, because that guy doesn’t really move around much and that leaves less oppourtunities for Bibby and his slow feet to get burned lol.
Ariose
September 27th, 2009
10:39 pm
I’m really worried about Smooves hand. Sekou saud hgis Jumper was on point b4 the hand injury. Will it be when he takes the Gauze off? Last season when he came back from the ankle injury his shot was off….way off..
Tron5000
September 27th, 2009
10:40 pm
@MannyT:
Shockley got cut because he wasn’t as good as the other 3 guys. He was drafted by a regime pandering to the local fan base, and the Falcons never had any plans for him to be an actual performer at the NFL level. He got cut because he wasn’t good enough. Now our defense has someone against whom they can practice.
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
10:48 pm
Truth,
You’re right. I did miss your point. And I think you missed mine as well, but that was entirely my fault because I did a very bad job of explaining it. I should have said what I originally was thinking, which was that JJ was stuck guarding the point guard all too often (when it was a good point guard). I think I did make myself clear however, when I said that there was no need for him to guard Orlando’s pg (Nelson), in my 4:49 post. Yeah, I question Woody too, as he is a bit prone to saying something to the press before training camp, then doing the exact opposite during the season.
I was just saying that at least he admitted that he used Joe against the opposing pg a bit too often (he had to in a lot of cases) and that perhaps now we had a solution to that. If we don’t, does he get the blame for the defensive scheme, or is it the players’ fault? Well, the blog in general will not agree, but I think we’ll have a good idea to work with once the games start.
Hence my post to MannyT about Woodson and what he has to say pre-preseason. And I think Manny has it right: this bunch of seasoned guys and up-and-comers who have been here a minute will be able to just play, rather than him trying to cook up a bunch of Xs and Os, which I do not feel are his forte. Oh wait, does that statement put me back in the Bubba Bin? Dammit….
Big Ray
September 27th, 2009
10:51 pm
KevinA ,
I think you bring a very good, thought-provoking argument. Nice Work ! Of course, making comments like that about JJ is liable to draw some people’s Nire ….er…I mean, ire …..
Quick question to add to your mix: how did Iso JJ look in the playoffs the last two years?
niremetal
September 27th, 2009
10:59 pm
MannyT and Ariose pretty much covered the field tonight. Nothing to add to that.
KevinA
September 27th, 2009
11:07 pm
ant banks
September 27th, 2009
10:20 pm
I think you got ride JJ till the end even if he does want to look around next year. At the end of the day where can JJ be the local MR. Basketball with more respect and fan fair.
One of the neat things about this team is they seem to like each other on and off the court. Sund gets the credit for the resign of ZaZa, Bibby and Marvin for mabye less than they could have made otherwise. Woody gets part of that credit. I look for JJ to do the same thing. Give up a mil or two to hang with his boys.