Flip Murray and Mike Woodson had a great year together, but that's history now. Murray has moved on to Charlotte and the Hawks are on the eve of training camp with a different mix of players.
HAWKSVILLE – One last time, Flip Murray is gone.
It’s over. And it’s official.
Take one last good look at him in his Hawks uniform (above next to Hawks coach Mike Woodson) and then move on.
Charlotte’s gain is the Hawks’ loss, until you scan the recently released training camp roster and realize that guys that the man replacing Flip as the Hawks’ third guard is a player that by any measure is a far better player. Whether or not he’s a better fit on this team remains to be seen. But anyone making the argument for Flip over Jamal Crawford needs to clean the lenses on their BlueBlockers.
And don’t get me wrong, I think was extremely valuable to the Hawks’ cause last season. He was a great fit at the perfect time for a team that desperately needed a tough guy with a no-nonsense attitude coming off the bench to help energize their second unit. But this idea that Flip won games for the Hawks last season is make believe.
It never happened.
Would I have love to see Flip remain in a Hawks uniform? Sure. That would have been ideal. But him moving on to a one-year deal with the Bobcats doesn’t shift the balance of power in the Southeast Division either.
Now there are plenty of people within the Hawks organization that disagree with me. They’ve been arguing me down all summer about Flip. They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.
In fact, I’d argue that Mo Evans was every bit as crucial to the Hawks’ 47-win season of a year ago. He was actually pressed into service as a starter (for an injured Marvin Williams (and the Hawks won roughly 67 percent of the games in which Evans started). Flip was never called upon to shoulder the load of say a Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson for an extended stretch of the season.
I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …
TRAINING CAMPERS
The training camp roster stands at 20 players, right at the number expected. Can’t say that there are any surprise names on the list either. You know the regulars, the guys already under guaranteed contracts for this season. What deserves further scrutiny is the eight players on the training camp roster that are looking for work. A brief breakdown of each guy and the initial outlook of his chances of securing that 13th roster spot (and perhaps the 14th if someone makes a definitive case for sticking around):
JUAN DIXON – The internal concerns about the Hawks’ point guard depth is reflected in the number of veteran guards on the camp roster, highlighted by this veteran guard. Dixon has never carved a niche for himself as a starting point guard but he’s been a factor on several teams as a situational combo guard. He’ll need a huge showing in camp to snag a roster spot.
OTHELLO HUNTER — Having already made the team this way a year ago, Hunter knows the odds are stacked against him sticking this year. The Hawks are deeper in the frontcourt and they’re not as likely to keep a developmental player on the roster if they’re only going to keep 13 players. Still, Hunter has improved as much anyone on the roster from this time a year ago. And with a strong camp, he could force the Hawks to consider keeping him.
AARON MILES – Miles made an appearance on the Hawks’ practice court during the workout season before the 2005 draft but has been basically a pro basketball journeyman since then. He’s a competitor and the kind of guy that always raises the meter defensively but he would appear to be an extreme long-shot to be here beyond the end of camp.
FRANK ROBINSON – One of the more intriguing players you’ll see in camp, Robinson continues to impress with his all-around skill (think a more skilled offensive player with Mario West-like energy). If you see him in action on a daily basis you keep asking yourself, “why isn’t this guy on someone’s roster?” Then you remember his problem is like most guys his size that play his position, they’d have to face the likes of Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Joe Johnson on a nightly basis in the league. But keep an eye on Mr. Robinson. He’ll turn some heads.
GARRET SILER – Augusta’s Finest is looking svelte these days, somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds or so, per one of my spies. He’s going to make you take notice because he’s usually going to be the biggest man in the room or on the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s not skilled, because he is. And that doesn’t mean the Hawks aren’t serious about gauging his long-term potential, because they are. Training camp and the preseason schedule will be the true test for Siler. If he proves he can hold up against top-flight competition over the course of the next month it’ll be hard to send him packing.
COURTNEY SIMS – I’m giving Sims the early nod as the favorite for the MOST SURPRISING CAMPER award. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he spent undergrad in Ann Arbor toiling for the Michigan basketball program. Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has matured tremendously since college. His frame (6-11 and 240 pounds) is much sturdier now and he has a face-up game that stretches beyond the 3-point line (if needed). I want to see how he deals with Al Horford and Josh Smith on a daily basis in camp.
MARIO WEST – If folks thought West was fighting for his life to make the roster the last two years, you’d be wise to pop some popcorn for the show I expect him to put on this time around. No one outworks the maniacal former Georgia Tech standout. While he’s been nursing some nagging injuries in recent weeks, there’s no doubt he’ll crank up the energy next week. The sticking point for West, however, is his salary number. As a rookie and second year player, with a salary under $1 million, West was a fantastic investment. Three years in, though, and his roughly $1 million price tag seems a bit high (to some) for a player that you know probably won’t play much unless there are injury catastrophes in the backcourt.
MIKE WILKS – Like Dixon, Wilks looks more like veteran point guard insurance. And he’s had stints with several teams that proved he could be a legitimate NBA contributor. But the idea of another 6-foot (or thereabouts) point guard on a team that already boasts Bibby and promising rookie Jeff Teague just doesn’t add up. Barring an absolutely stunning performance in camp, I have a hard time justifying a spot for Wilks or any other undersized point guard.
287 comments Add your comment
Headed to Philadelphia
September 26th, 2009
12:08 pm
This trade is more likely to happen in the middle of the NBA season.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:09 pm
And PS – Dalembert is even older than JJ. Oops.
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
12:17 pm
JJ traded for Young and Dalembert. Headed to Philadelphia. I almost peed in my pants laughing at that comment. LOL! LMAO! Way to set him straight niremetal. Dang that was funny. That’s not progress.
All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Make it do what it do Hawks!
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
12:20 pm
Blasphemy!! Shame on you sir.. It is discrediting to the brilliance of Rick Sund to think he would trade JJ for these 2 guys. Now granted if JJ doesn’t sign the extenson, then I’m sure the Hawks front office would try and get something out of JJ, rather than lose him for nothing. But please believe we’ll get a much better package than these 2 guys. Hawks 2009-10 SE Division Champs? I’m wit it.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
12:25 pm
After I read the comment from headed to philadelphia, i went to google and it is true but its just a trade rummor. this trade would not help the hawks but it would help the 76ers.
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
12:31 pm
Headed to Philadelphia should have stated it as a rumor. Dog gone it.
Anywayz: All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Hawks, make it do what it do.
That’s my motto and I’m sticking to it!
Hoops
September 26th, 2009
12:32 pm
Relax guys! JJ is not going to Philly. For Young and Dalembert? Get real!
Flip was a great pick up for the Hawks last year. But, if I was the GM and I had a choice between Flip and Crawford, I’d take Crawford any day. Only time will tell if Sund made the right decision.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:33 pm
Bleacher Report is not even a “rumor.” It’s one guy making sh!t up at his computer. Dalembert looked awful this past year…no way he starts ahead of Horford, and he’d honestly have to fight Zaza to even get the backup center job. Also, the “story” is 4 months old – it was written June 3, before we traded for Crawford and drafted Teague. The addition of those two makes it tough to see why the Hawks would ever consider that trade, since neither Young nor Dalembert would start.
In any case, there was no “rumor” at all. It was a couple Sixers fans looking at their roster, realizing they suck, and wanting to come up with a trade that would net them an All-Star without giving up anyone good.
Hoops
September 26th, 2009
12:38 pm
nire,
Kinda like the trade we did with the Warriors to get Crawford?
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:39 pm
The Sixers fan who thought that up probably just remembers this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpTGcruhOfM&fmt=18
…and thought “Hey, it would be great if we could trade the guy who got burned and get the guy who hit the shot!”
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
Hoops,
So many differences. The Warriors had said publicly that they intended to trade Crawford. The Hawks have never given ANY indication that JJ is available. Crawford also is not nearly the player JJ is – Crawford won’t be a starter here, while JJ would instantly be the best player in Philly (no offense to Iguodala, who has All-Star potential but is most certainly not there yet – there is pretty much nothing that he does better than JJ except dunk).
I’ve lived in Philly for most of the past 8 years and I’ve seen a lot of Sixers games and talked to a lot of Sixers fans. They have been trying to concoct ways to unload Dalembert’s contract for a long time. The guy who wrote that seems to be under the misconception that the Hawks would consider Dalembert an upgrade over Horford (let’s see, do we start the guy who is 1 inch taller, or the guy who is stronger, quicker, smarter, younger, a better jumper, and plays with 50x more heart? Hmmmmm….).
Oh, and one last, more than mildly important difference – the Warriors are a lottery team that is rebuilding. The Hawks are not.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
man, my celtics would love to see the hawks make this trade,that trade would be in the top 5 dumb trades made in the nba. but then again the hawks are not smart, remember not drafting cp3 and drafting Shelden williams. Hahaha!!!
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
12:50 pm
Niremetal,
I won this argument already.
Thanks.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:56 pm
Oh, sorry Tribe. I didn’t realize G-d had appointed you the judge of who wins arguments you’re involved in. My bad.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:57 pm
Hawk fans I wrote it to make the people from Philadelphia look dumb, I also wrote the comment to sound smart saying how stupid that trade was.
celtic spy
September 26th, 2009
1:05 pm
that was funny niremetal
The real niremetal...
September 26th, 2009
1:05 pm
…knows how to use punctuation and where to insert necessary prepositions. Nice try, though.
But I have no problems admitting that I try to look smart. It’s tough to look smart when you’re in my line of work.
Res ipsa loquitur,
Matt = niremetal
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
1:08 pm
The Sixers fan who thought that up probably just remembers this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpTGcruhOfM&fmt=18
…and thought “Hey, it would be great if we could trade the guy who got burned and get the guy who hit the shot!”
LOL! NIREMETAL, YEP THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HE MUST HAVE BEEN THINKING!
Last year’s home opener, good times, good times. The Hawks came back from a twenty point deficit that game. Awesome! I hope this years’ home opener is just as crunk as that one was.
All about progress. Hawks 2010 SE Division Champs. Hawks, make it do what it do!
rob
September 26th, 2009
1:24 pm
I loved the 2007 home opener againts Dallas!
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:37 pm
We’ve got our sixth man of the year with Crawford
Shake and Bake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5DXIezqr4&NR=1
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:40 pm
These are going to the moves that people better look out for: More shaking and baking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crs-QT1DERo&feature=related
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:48 pm
This is guy while we’re going to forget about flip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxKEou4vPHk
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
1:53 pm
I’m tired of hearing about Flip, and let’s move on: We have to move on, Flip was great but we got someone that’s better shooter and can benefit the Hawks future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjulTveN6Ts&feature=related
jerrywest
September 26th, 2009
2:00 pm
Wow. Crawford pours in 52 points in a blow out win against Wade and sits on the bench for the last 7 minutes. Could have scored 60-70.
Tron5000
September 26th, 2009
2:09 pm
The NBA’s salary structure is nice in theory, but the application has ramifications for teams and players. Yeah, it’s all fine and dandy to try to make sure veterans get paid a decent wage. But when a guy like Mario West, who can be a big help as a defensive stopper in this league, may not make a team because his salary requirement is too high, both parties lose. The Hawks would be forced to pay him a certain salary, and his worth may be deemed to not be that high. They can’t negotiate a contract that will pay him less than the minimum for his service time. So the Hawks may be forced into letting him walk, and should another team not sign him, he’s out of a job and with no paycheck at all, and looking for another way to support himself and his family.
Not a big fan of the whole “minimum wage” thing.
doc
September 26th, 2009
3:10 pm
you know i cant wait to see nire and ando get into a discussion with some element of disagreement. could be epical. whatcha think ariose? ando, come back, please, we are left unenlightened, clueless and like drifting sands. need some bang for my entertainment dollar here.
tjhook
September 26th, 2009
3:43 pm
First, I want to show my complete love for Flip Murray and what he did in a Hawks uniform. My question is why Sund or Woodson didn’t believe Flip and Crawford would’nt have been an explosive duo off the bench. Throw in Evans and that’s a lethal group of wing guys with a lot of versatility – enough to augment the starters. I’m mainly concerned with how the offense will be run when Mike Bibby gets hurts during the season.
MannyT
September 26th, 2009
3:56 pm
@Sekou…How about them Wolverines!
I wish Flip well. He got biannual exception which is better than minimum. Getting a 33% raise this year is a good thing for anyone who can get it. I agree that I’ll miss him almost like Chills, but everyone can (and at some point will) be replaced.
I cannot say that I am looking forward to preseason, but camp looks interesting with the battle for the end of the bench.
@Ray…are you the 2009-10 Hawks Hack or are there term limits? Is Ando back with you or was he too constrained by the word count limitations, no matter how high they might be
@Tron5000…comparing the unionized salary scale of rich athletes to the working poor and minimum wage is a Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards stretch. Working 40 hours/week, every week grosses $15,080/year. The minimum NBA salary this season for a rookie is $457,588.
Any of the guys in Hawks camp that end up in the D-League will make well more than minimum wage in 1/2 a year.
For related, good job, little sympathy argument, keep an eye on NBA ref situation.
@doc…niremetal v ando
It could be epic, but the dictionaries might protest the event for an abusive overuse of words. I’d want the video rights if they were actually in the same place.
BWAF
Wink
September 26th, 2009
4:24 pm
Flip gets signed in late September. Our offense is guard oriented and we did not need Flip. Most of the offense will be provided by Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Teague?, why not Flip, but Flip is gone.
Crawford was insurance for JJ & Bibby signings. Bibby has signed. Why has JJ not signed? Where is JJ, he usually makes it down to the practice gym prior to camp…not one sighting. He was Twittering…nothing of late.
One poster states a proposed trade could be in the works for JJ to Philly for Dalenbert & Thadeus Young…after JJ contract is up this year. Could it be the starting lineup could be Bibby, Crawford, Josh, Horford,& Dalenbert. With a 2nd unit of Teague, Marvin, Young, ZaZa, Joe Smith. The offense would have to change a bit no more Iso Joe.
Or is JJ trying to make a big camp impression “The MAN has Arrived”.
We will know tomorrow what up with Joe! Flip is gone!
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
4:41 pm
I love the Hawks!
Bill
September 26th, 2009
4:42 pm
Enter your comments here I’ve seen Courtney Sims play in some of his workouts in Boston. He is a far better player than people have seen in the past. He would be a steal as a second year salary player. Any NBA team who signs him will get a very good player who can contribute immediately.
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:06 pm
“Hmmm…. is there anything in the news that I can blame on Mexicans today?”
MannyT
September 26th, 2009
5:06 pm
@niremetal from last blog.
Joe’s deal with the Hawks was 5 yrs/$70 mil with front loaded payment in year 1 of 20 mil. That left 50 mil for the other 4 years which dipped in year 2 and then had raises.
I think there has been a revision to the CBA since JJ signed that deal. The differences between what you expected to see in the contract may have been due to those changes.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960
BWAF
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:11 pm
“Now You Know!” This is the real Lou Dobbs.
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
Have any of you seen my show on CNN?
Bob
September 26th, 2009
5:23 pm
Lou you can blame them for the fact that flip’s gone.
Bill are you the celtic spy?
September 26th, 2009
5:30 pm
Enter your comments here
rob
September 26th, 2009
5:37 pm
The whole jj trade is fake, if it was true Sekou would have told us.
Headed to Huston
September 26th, 2009
5:51 pm
3 time all-star JJ could be traded to the Rocket for Tracy Macgrady a super star with injury problems.
Timbo
September 26th, 2009
5:58 pm
Eh, I guess you missed the playoff games where Flip outplayed Bibby and Joe . . .
Headed to Boston
September 26th, 2009
6:21 pm
The Atlanta Hawks are looking to trade 3 time all-star Joe Johnson to the team that drafted him,the Boston Celtics in return the Hawks would get SG Ray Allen and Center kendrick Perkins. This trade would help both playoff teams.
Eman
September 26th, 2009
6:40 pm
This is the best hawks video ever!! The highlight factor is in business!!
Lou Dobbs
September 26th, 2009
6:44 pm
The idea that JJ will be traded is crazy.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
7:08 pm
Timbo,
Eh, I guess you missed all the stories talking about JJ being hurt and Bibby being Bibby. And the fact that JJ outscored and out-assisted Flip in every single playoff game. And Flip shot 34% from the field compared to 42% for JJ (and 46% for Bibby). And Bibby and JJ averaged more assists (both per game and per 36 minutes) than Flip.
He was a good player. But it’s hysterical how some people are talking about Flip now like he is the second coming of John Havlicek rather than the solid role player that he is.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
7:13 pm
*scratch “out-assisted.” Flip topped JJ twice in that category during the playoffs. And out-rebounded JJ once.
real niremetal
September 26th, 2009
8:36 pm
niremetal can you stop making fake JJ trade rumors?
Ariose
September 26th, 2009
9:35 pm
Doc, Ditto what Manny said hehehe!!
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
10:17 pm
“”You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it.”
Wtf is Woodson referring to?
Sekou Smith
September 26th, 2009
10:59 pm
Winning 47 games Tribe.
Headed to Atlanta
September 26th, 2009
11:01 pm
It has been reported on PTI that King James wants to become a Hawk in 2010.
King James told the guys from PTI that with him, JJ and Josh Smith the hawks can become champs