Flip’s gone, time for camp
Flip Murray and Mike Woodson had a great year together, but that's history now. Murray has moved on to Charlotte and the Hawks are on the eve of training camp with a different mix of players.
HAWKSVILLE – One last time, Flip Murray is gone.
It’s over. And it’s official.
Take one last good look at him in his Hawks uniform (above next to Hawks coach Mike Woodson) and then move on.
Charlotte’s gain is the Hawks’ loss, until you scan the recently released training camp roster and realize that guys that the man replacing Flip as the Hawks’ third guard is a player that by any measure is a far better player. Whether or not he’s a better fit on this team remains to be seen. But anyone making the argument for Flip over Jamal Crawford needs to clean the lenses on their BlueBlockers.
And don’t get me wrong, I think was extremely valuable to the Hawks’ cause last season. He was a great fit at the perfect time for a team that desperately needed a tough guy with a no-nonsense attitude coming off the bench to help energize their second unit. But this idea that Flip won games for the Hawks last season is make believe.
It never happened.
Would I have love to see Flip remain in a Hawks uniform? Sure. That would have been ideal. But him moving on to a one-year deal with the Bobcats doesn’t shift the balance of power in the Southeast Division either.
Now there are plenty of people within the Hawks organization that disagree with me. They’ve been arguing me down all summer about Flip. They contend he was far more valuable than anyone realized, that he was a stabilizing locker room presence and the unsung guts of the team. Could be. But I never witnessed that sort of impact on or off the floor.
In fact, I’d argue that Mo Evans was every bit as crucial to the Hawks’ 47-win season of a year ago. He was actually pressed into service as a starter (for an injured Marvin Williams (and the Hawks won roughly 67 percent of the games in which Evans started). Flip was never called upon to shoulder the load of say a Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson for an extended stretch of the season.
I suspect Flip’s loss will have the same impact the loss of the man he replaced (Josh Childress) had on this team the year before …
TRAINING CAMPERS
The training camp roster stands at 20 players, right at the number expected. Can’t say that there are any surprise names on the list either. You know the regulars, the guys already under guaranteed contracts for this season. What deserves further scrutiny is the eight players on the training camp roster that are looking for work. A brief breakdown of each guy and the initial outlook of his chances of securing that 13th roster spot (and perhaps the 14th if someone makes a definitive case for sticking around):
JUAN DIXON – The internal concerns about the Hawks’ point guard depth is reflected in the number of veteran guards on the camp roster, highlighted by this veteran guard. Dixon has never carved a niche for himself as a starting point guard but he’s been a factor on several teams as a situational combo guard. He’ll need a huge showing in camp to snag a roster spot.
OTHELLO HUNTER — Having already made the team this way a year ago, Hunter knows the odds are stacked against him sticking this year. The Hawks are deeper in the frontcourt and they’re not as likely to keep a developmental player on the roster if they’re only going to keep 13 players. Still, Hunter has improved as much anyone on the roster from this time a year ago. And with a strong camp, he could force the Hawks to consider keeping him.
AARON MILES – Miles made an appearance on the Hawks’ practice court during the workout season before the 2005 draft but has been basically a pro basketball journeyman since then. He’s a competitor and the kind of guy that always raises the meter defensively but he would appear to be an extreme long-shot to be here beyond the end of camp.
FRANK ROBINSON – One of the more intriguing players you’ll see in camp, Robinson continues to impress with his all-around skill (think a more skilled offensive player with Mario West-like energy). If you see him in action on a daily basis you keep asking yourself, “why isn’t this guy on someone’s roster?” Then you remember his problem is like most guys his size that play his position, they’d have to face the likes of Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Joe Johnson on a nightly basis in the league. But keep an eye on Mr. Robinson. He’ll turn some heads.
GARRET SILER – Augusta’s Finest is looking svelte these days, somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 pounds or so, per one of my spies. He’s going to make you take notice because he’s usually going to be the biggest man in the room or on the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s not skilled, because he is. And that doesn’t mean the Hawks aren’t serious about gauging his long-term potential, because they are. Training camp and the preseason schedule will be the true test for Siler. If he proves he can hold up against top-flight competition over the course of the next month it’ll be hard to send him packing.
COURTNEY SIMS – I’m giving Sims the early nod as the favorite for the MOST SURPRISING CAMPER award. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he spent undergrad in Ann Arbor toiling for the Michigan basketball program. Sims was the D-League MVP last season and has matured tremendously since college. His frame (6-11 and 240 pounds) is much sturdier now and he has a face-up game that stretches beyond the 3-point line (if needed). I want to see how he deals with Al Horford and Josh Smith on a daily basis in camp.
MARIO WEST – If folks thought West was fighting for his life to make the roster the last two years, you’d be wise to pop some popcorn for the show I expect him to put on this time around. No one outworks the maniacal former Georgia Tech standout. While he’s been nursing some nagging injuries in recent weeks, there’s no doubt he’ll crank up the energy next week. The sticking point for West, however, is his salary number. As a rookie and second year player, with a salary under $1 million, West was a fantastic investment. Three years in, though, and his roughly $1 million price tag seems a bit high (to some) for a player that you know probably won’t play much unless there are injury catastrophes in the backcourt.
MIKE WILKS – Like Dixon, Wilks looks more like veteran point guard insurance. And he’s had stints with several teams that proved he could be a legitimate NBA contributor. But the idea of another 6-foot (or thereabouts) point guard on a team that already boasts Bibby and promising rookie Jeff Teague just doesn’t add up. Barring an absolutely stunning performance in camp, I have a hard time justifying a spot for Wilks or any other undersized point guard.
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287 comments Add your comment
cp
September 25th, 2009
9:44 pm
lol reggie. no he didn’t. It was crazy because you just knew Flip was going to take that shot, he was not going to pass that ball regardless of who was open.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
9:48 pm
CP: It was kind of frustrating but everything else he did overshadowed that. I think I may recall him making one at a Raptors game I went to.
Sautee
September 25th, 2009
9:59 pm
ATCQ,
about this: “Um Joe may not be a “superstar” but he is the 3rd best SG in the game until further notice”
Or at least until Ginobili gets fully healthy. JJ’s never had the opportunity to take over a Finals game like Manu. MG gets a LOT of credit for that from me.
Maybe one day………..
JJ IS up there near the top of SGs though. And I’d put Brandon Roy in that discussion as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:00 pm
Tribe ,
Are you serious? A coach killer? Dude has played for two coaches that need no help with the killing, they can do it all by themselves. Craw is not why Skiles got let go. He got let go because Paxson was an idiot, and because Paxson decided Skiles’ wasn’t the man to get those young fellas to the next level. Mostly because Paxson was an idiot.
Craw didn’t get Isaiah Thomas fired either. A “staffer” did. Or should I say an moonlighting “escort” wannabe…
And Nellie? He’s still got a job, despite the fact that he’s a nutcase and runs the whole organization from the sideline.
Coach killer my ass.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:03 pm
The only buzzer shot I remember Flip messing up was the one where JJ had the ball the full length of the court, charged to the basket, then turned, did a one-and-a-half gainer with a piourette twist (or however the hell you spell that), turned around like that chick in the exorcist, and flung the ball towards Flip…who happened to be behind him, and was clearly not expecting the ball to come back to him.
I don’t blame Flip for missing the shot, is all I can say.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:04 pm
If you could call it a shot. It was more like, “there goes JJ, oh crap, what is the ball doing in my hands?!”
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:09 pm
Hahahah! JJ crapped his pants when he saw Birdman and K-Mart just waiting for him to put it up lol.
Flips missed some, he’s made some, Other than JJ I wouldn’t have anyone else taking those one-on-one end of quater shots last season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
Big Ray: I’m not saying he messed up on the buzzer shots but every time it was either Flip or JJ iso and Flip would miss it every time. It was probably more of a result from the coaching and play calling than Flip trying to heave one up with a guy in his face. I do remember that play you mentioned, what game was that?
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
True that. I admired Flip’s fearlessness. I knew dude was getting a job somewhere.
As for the logjam at SG in Charlotte, I wouldn’t expect it to stay that way. Somebody is moving, and it will be THIS season.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:14 pm
ahh, the Nuggets game! That was a frustrating game.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:15 pm
Reggie ,
I can’t remember exactly which game it was, but I had fun describing it.
Sorry, but watching the replays in slow-mo was entertaining. It was just a play that Flip was involved in that stuck out to me.
I’m not hatin’ on your post at all. Flip had the greenlight to shoot, not pass. And while people will talk about shooting percentages, Flip’s are “okay.” He got a lot of charges called on him, because he would put his head down. But like many have said, he was the only other guy who would just go and take it (Bibby would, but his shooting went down in the second half of the season).
I think one of his absolute best money moves was when he would fake the shot or jab step, then come in about 2-4 feet inside the 3-point arc and shoot it. Money, damn near every time.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:16 pm
Yeah it was. And of course we all were at it, hammer and tongs about what JJ should/should not have done, and everything.
You could tell who the diehard JJ supporters were, lol!
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:17 pm
I loved Flip too. That guy was just great for us. A great signing by Sund last year.
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
Ray: Yeah I remember that game clearly now. That night on the blog was pretty fun. Good ole’ Mark talking about how JJ sucked and isn’t worth anything and then calling us homers because we support the hawks and actually like them. It will be starting all up again real soon.
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
We were in Denver(febuary after the all-star break during that long west-coast stretch), Mike Bibby(flu) AND J-Smoove(New Baby) didn’t play. We were down the whole game and came back(in typical Hawks fashon) to almost steal a win at the end.
I replayed those final seconds over and over since I try to tape most of the games….
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
10:28 pm
Oh, and Marvin had 31pts…
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
10:38 pm
Ariose ,
….don’t tell Rod….
Reggie (The Bird and Indian)
September 25th, 2009
10:43 pm
Rod thinks Marvin has no offensive potential at all. I tried to explain to him but he would never listen. Don’t forget about his long lost brother; Sam from Da Swats who ironically has the same writing style as well.
Big Ray
September 25th, 2009
11:00 pm
Come now Reggie , the man is not here to defend himself. Hee hee hee…
Yes, one must always be careful about writing styles. Especially if one makes very similar criticisms as other personas do…
Ariose
September 25th, 2009
11:06 pm
OH no….we wouldn’t want HIM to know about this! He’ll probably say the refs spotted Marv 15 points
kj
September 25th, 2009
11:22 pm
Man am I late? gotta get back home earlier, Can’t wait for another hawks season. It’s shaping up to be one spectacular ride. I thin kwe got a legitamate shot at the division this year. orlando with vinsanity is good but I don’t think vc will be able to cause the match up problems hedo did last year, plus I can’t recall if he has hedo’s stoke either for that matter. If al ho can bang with the new superman and get him under control I think we match up just as good if not better at every other slot. I don’t see anyone else as a threat to us. maybe miami? maybe. what do you guys think?
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:51 pm
We should have brought back flip period.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
rms
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
Why should we care if any of these guys make the team. They will just be playing mop up duty without any significant impact on the team whatsoever. We had this same conversation last year with Othello Hunter and Mario West. Who cares…. I am concerned about the starters and the main guys coming off the bench not the 13th man on the end of the pine that rarely ever plays!!!
darrell starks
September 25th, 2009
11:53 pm
We will miss flip wish him well.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
1:45 am
It is good to recap the season and see how good flip did. Which he did great as a backup. But I remember the playoffs when 3 starters was hurt and we needed flip to have a hugh night with the lights on and guess what he didnt. I will take crawford a guy who has scored 50 points in some games in that spot. at least you have a punchers chance. Thats why he is starter material along with him being 2 inches taller. And we have him as our 6th man. You guys will forget all about flip when you see crawford play. Then you will be saying how good rick sund is. Sekou is right GO Hawks
Coach D
September 26th, 2009
4:25 am
Anyone willing to bet that Flip won’t get at least 20 in the majority of games he plays against the Hawks? That’s how that cat works. We’ll lose at least 2 of the games against Charlotte on behalf of Flip going on one of his patented scoring binges.
Big Ray
September 26th, 2009
5:48 am
I don’t know about all that. Flip can dang sure score, but he played in 80 games last year. In 11 of those he scored 20 points or more. Patented scoring binges? And we’re going to lose to Charlotte because of Flip? Alrighty then.
GT Falcon
September 26th, 2009
7:42 am
Good luck Flip. I was a big fan.
greg
September 26th, 2009
7:43 am
Never thought he was that good. Just nice role player. Move on and who cares.
Clyde
September 26th, 2009
7:50 am
FLIP you will be missed. He stayed healthy and played hard.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
7:56 am
We needed that patented scoring binge against clev but we didnt get it. So we or anyone else is not afraid of flip. Thats why it took this long for someone to sign him. we will be saying it is good how we upgraded over flip this year thanks rick
RA
September 26th, 2009
8:03 am
First off, thank you Flip. Atlanta doesn’t do what they did last year without you. Secondly, Charlotte just got better, how much better remains to be seen. Now, I’ll be honest, if Flip were going to a team like Orlando or Cleveland or even Boston, I’d be worried about what he could help them do to us. In Charlotte though, I still think that if Atlanta comes to play, they’ll beat them, even with Flip. Here’s the thing, the elite teams in the game will beat the teams that they’re suppose to beat, bottom line. What Atlanta is going to have to establish, and they need to do this early on, is whether they are an elite team that’s going to take care of business or a talented group of overacheivers who could play up big or disappear altogether.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
8:17 am
We are already worried about what the big three can do to us flip or with out flip those teams are deep. he would not get big minutes on those teams.
MissingNique
September 26th, 2009
8:47 am
You would never know how good Flip could have been because they didn’t play him enough just like Anthony Johnson when we had him. Another team didn’t play him last year and it cost them in the playoffs. Mo is a must probably one lof the best hustler utility players in the league if they will let him get a few more minutes. The NBA is just like the NFL they buy into who they think should be good instaed of who actually is, And if Josh Smith doesn’t play hard every night it wont matter…Thanks for the hustle Flip!
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:01 am
I do understand what you are saying But we did play him enough in the clev series and he did not make any difference that is the most recent games played. we really needed him and josh did show up in all 4. Flip is a veteran backup I would have loved him back but he is not a game changer or he would be back.
truly1
September 26th, 2009
9:04 am
oh well time for camp we have a much better team this year so lets move on
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:14 am
flip was instrumental and vital to the success of the hawks last year. if he had flopped as many other free agents have or brought the game of say a t lue this team would have been stuck at the 9th spot looking in is my guess. if he had been injured even we would have been hamstrung for sure because there was nothing on the bench and we had missed already on van wafer along with just about every other FA. i will stand and applaud him every time he comes on the floor this year in someone else’s uniform.
with that said flip doesnt hold a candle to crawford who is said to be a liability on defense but has never played for a defensive minded coach. he gets his chance soon and i cant friggin wait to see him and the rest on the floor.
doc
September 26th, 2009
9:15 am
durn did alabama already lose? clyde didnt you say you wouldnt be around until then?
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
9:47 am
Paul Pierce is at it again: Paul Pierce has declared the Celtics the “team to beat” this season. It’s funny how they’re the team to beat when the Lakers has the title. What’s your take, who do you feel is the team to beat.
Doug
September 26th, 2009
10:04 am
The Hawks season is toast because they did not sign a career back-up who apparently, unbeknownst to most, is feared throughout the league! This “fearless assasin” was left on the market for five months…while the stupid NBA execs dithered…until …finally he is snatched up at the last minute by Charlotte for….1.9 million!!!!! And Charlotte is now the presumptive favorite in the East.
macaroni tony
September 26th, 2009
10:08 am
Because of Flip, now the Bobcats are the team to beat? I think that is bull, don’t get me wrong he’s a great player, but they’re not going to finals because of him. I know that Crawford and Teague will suprise a lot of us this year. I’m not really concern with all the chatter that going on about Flip. I do hope Flip the best, but not against the Hawks. It’s On: Go Hawks!
jhan
September 26th, 2009
10:18 am
Flip was one of my favorites players on this team last year. He did a fantastic job coming off the bench. Now he’s gone to Charlotte. Next year he’ll be trying to catch on with a different team. Same story for the next 5 years until he retires. Nice career bench player. I’m not going to lose any sleep over him being gone. Thanks Flip.
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
10:54 am
Yo Sekou, great write-up as always man. But quick question.. I heard there were talks of signing Carlos Arroyo.. No diss to the all the other guards vying for the 13th and 14th spots (big shout out to the homie, Mario West), but you couldn’t have a better 4th or 5th guard on ur team than this guy. Any truth to the rumors?
i_am_soulstar
September 26th, 2009
11:01 am
And yes i agree A Tribe Called Quest, Joe is the third best SG in the game hands down.. don’t sleep
A Tribe Called Quest
September 26th, 2009
11:19 am
Whatever, Ray.
The bottom line is Sekou downplayed everything Flip did for us, taking subtle shots like he was not the best bench player last year. I am hoping Crawford earns his 10 mill paycheck. And yes Acie and Speedy did suck. There’s no denying that
Yung A$E
September 26th, 2009
11:47 am
Flip was a major part in our sucess but if we kept flip i feel that wouldve made chemistry and minutes fall apart with crawford. Crawford is a animal on his a games and im jus glad hes in a hawks uniform. Also we need to sign siller and sims we must. EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!
Headed to Philadelphia
September 26th, 2009
11:55 am
It has been proposed that all-star Joe Johnson will be traded to the 76ers for Thaddes Young and Sammy Dalembert. The Hawks have been interested in dalembert in the past and the 76ers need a SG that can score and remember Joe Johnson is in his last year of his contract so that makes this trade likely to happen. With Johnson turning 28, chances are we’ve seen the best he has to offer so is time the hawks move in a new direction!
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 26th, 2009
11:56 am
For me it’s all about the Hawks. I’m hoping Jamal Crawford makes us forget Flip, cause if he doesn’t……………….! Now as far as the last few spots on the roster go, I figure why not let the hype man Mario fill this spot since this person doesn’t see much playing time anyway. But on the other hand Othello sounded great, Siler could add more beef, and Frank Robinson I remember him playing great in the last summer league the Hawks held. The other guys I really don’t know. Let’s just say this, whichever player management thinks will help the Hawks stay on progress to becoming contenders and ultimately champs then I’m wit it!
All about the Hawks’ progress! 2010 SE Division Champs! Make it do what it do Hawks!
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:05 pm
Tribe,
If Flip was such a stud, how come he didn’t get signed until September, and even then only got the veteran’s minimum despite the fact that he was unrestricted?
Flip is what he is – a solid role player who can give you bursts of scoring off the bench. Nothing more, nothing less. He was good but replaceable. And the fact that you’re still hung up on Crawford’s salary shows that you still don’t get the point Ray was trying to make. So I’ll put it another way. Josh is making close to $11M this coming year. Tim Duncan is making just over $22M. Is Duncan still twice as good as Josh? If not, is Duncan overpaid? Next year Josh will be making $11.6M and Leon Powe will be making $916k. Assuming Powe is healthy, will Josh be overpaid? Will he be 13 times as good as Powe? So will he be “worth” his $11.6M price tag?
This is why it makes NO sense to talk about a player as “overpaid” or “underpaid” without looking at the broader context.
niremetal
September 26th, 2009
12:07 pm
Someone is busy making sh!t up. JJ for Dalembert and Young? Really? Neither of those guys would start on the team we currently have.