That time of year
It's that time of year again for the Mike Woodson and his Hawks. Training camp is just weeks away and the coach and his team are in the crosshairs.
HAWKSVILLE - For those of us pro basketball loyalists, we always know when it’s time to readjust the schedule to get ready for the NBA season.
Labor Day is my reminder.
I know that in the days immediately following the holiday players will start trickling back into town and showing up for voluntary workouts (go ahead and get your jokes about my Wolverines out of the way now so we can move on to basketball matters) on the track and at the Hawks’ practice facility.
It’s as much as a part of my late summer/fall routine as watching football on the weekend. So I’ll be making my way downtown all week to see who shows up and what kind of work they’re doing in anticipation of the start of training camp, which believe it or not is just roughly three weeks away.
The prognosticators already have an idea of what things will look like once the season starts and how the Hawks will do, for example, our friends at HoopsHype have the Hawks pegged for a return to the fourth spot in the Eastern Conference standings.
I prefer to wait until I actually see someone on the move before offering up any sort of hypothesis about where this team might be headed. So while I was standing over my grill Sunday afternoon, basking in the glory of a decisive win for my team Saturday and enjoying the neighborly ambiance of the world’s greatest bedroom community (neighbors bring over steaming hot crawfish pies and ice cold Arnold Palmers when they see the first sign of grill smoke in Smyrna), the conversation turned to the Hawks.
Specifically, the Ridge Road crew wanted to know who has to have the biggest year for the Hawks to continue their climb up the conference ladder and back into the playoffs and perhaps beyond the second round?
It’s a question, I explained, best answered by those of us that spend far too much time worrying ourselves with these things on a daily basis (if you’re reading this, you know who you are). So before I ask for your take, please allow me to offer my five-point answer:
MIKE WOODSON - the Hawks’ sixth-year head coach has weathered every storm that’s come his way thus far, which is a testament to not only his team’s continual improvement but also his ability to compartmentalize during tough times and rally his troops. But this season will provide perhaps the harshest spotlight he’s faced during his tenure. In each of his five previous seasons few people – fans, pundits or anyone else outside of the city of Atlanta – viewed his team as a playoff player. All that has changed in the past 16 months. Woodson’s entering the final year of his deal, which always adds a little extra drama to the situation, with oversized expectations. The roster is 11-deep with proven NBA players (Randolph Morris is still waiting on the chance to prove himself), the deepest the Hawks have been since Woodson arrived. The bottom line, this team goes where Woodson leads them.
JOE JOHNSON - In the same situation as his coach, in terms of heading into the final year of his deal (until further notice, of course), the Hawks’ captain and All-Star faces an interesting dilemma this season. As his younger teammates have matured and the veteran cast been upgraded, Johnson will have to decide how much of the burden he is willing and able to shoulder this season. Physically, the extended minutes have taken a toll the past two seasons, when his playoff performances weren’t consistently up to his own lofty standards. Crazy as this might sound; if his numbers decreased across the board (especially his minutes) I could see him having a better season than any of his first four with the Hawks.
JAMAL CRAWFORD - Anytime you fleece a team the way the Hawks did when they snatched Crawford from the Golden State Warriors for Acie Law IV and Speedy Claxton, folks expect big things. And Crawford has to deliver, whatever his role ends up being. If he “leads the league in scoring off the bench” as one Hawks’ staffer joked to me in the hours after the deal went down, we’d have some story. But if he just maintains his nearly 20-point scoring average this season he’ll make that deal worth it. Any concerns about Crawford’s fit on this team have been assuaged by multiple in-house sources this summer that insist Crawford developed an instant chemistry with everyone within the organization that’s dealt with him. If the on-court chemistry comes as easily, this could wind up being one of the Hawks’ best personnel moves in years. If not …
RICK SUND - You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone that isn’t convinced that the Hawks’ GM has done a masterful job in his first 13 months on the job. He’s made all the right moves and steadied the organization through one of their best seasons in years. But the toughest challenge comes this season. Sund will have to gauge the Hawks’ progress by the February trade deadline and decide if this team, as presently constituted, provides the best chance for long-term success or not. If not, he’ll have to pull the trigger on the right deal to push the Hawks over top (sort of like his predecessor did two years ago when Billy Knight pulled the trigger on the Mike Bibby deal). Gone are the days when the Hawks’ GM could simply suspend the franchise in rebuilding mode or just maintain. The next step is moving upward and onward, and that almost always requires a deft personnel move one way or another.
JEFF TEAGUE/JOE SMITH/JASON COLLINS - These three guys represent everything the Hawks have needed in the form of depth at their two most crucial positions the past five years. Just a rookie, Teague’s ability to adapt to the NBA game and assume a position backing up Bibby is crucial. If his assimilation comes off without a hitch, and we honestly have no way of knowing how it will go, the need for that third point guard won’t be nearly as urgent as it might be otherwise. Smith and Collins are known commodities in the NBA. You get a versatile scorer and defender in Smith, a veteran frontcourt performer that’s always played much bigger than his listed size. In Collins, the Hawks have a 7-footer capable of lending quality minutes in a situational role, particularly on the defensive end. They have to be the support system, along with Zaza Pachulia, that Josh Smith and Al Horford have had to work without the past two years.
You know what I think.
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532 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
September 8th, 2009
12:28 am
Swatguy,
I disagree. The job of NBA head coach is pressure-filled one at all times. You can sign a 5 year contract and be fired after 2 years. Astro Joe has mentioned the high turnover rate of NBA head coaches many times, and he’s right. Woody’s situation is no more pressure-filled than that of any other head coach in the League. It’s not like he’s the first one to be going into the last year of his contract, not having an extension offered yet.
In fact, I think the list of coaches who routinely get extended before the last year of their contract comes around is very short. I’m betting Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Gregg Poppovich, and maybe Rick Adelman are the main guys. Well, you could add Mike Dunleavy and Don Nelson. Nelson runs his franchise from the sidelines, and Dunleavy obviously has some very compromising photographs of the Clipper’s owner and entire front office. It’s the only reason I can think of, as to why he still has a job. Well, that and the front office has routinely screwed the pooch over there.
If the lack of a contract extension is all it takes to undermine Woody’s ability to maintain authority and keep doing the job he’s been doing, then he’s not worth the suits he wears. You don’t get paid to have peace of mind. You get paid to coach. He got offered a two year extension by a new boss, and he signed it. If he was worried about pressure, he shouldn’t have signed that contract, but something tells me he knew what he was doing. I’ll give the man major kudos for trying to finish what he started. For all we know, they might just want to see how this team does for the first 20-30 games. After that, Sund might show up in his office with a pen, piece of paper, and a checkbook.
Woody will be fine. Most of the roster is to his liking. He’s got a draft pick he likes, his favorite point guard is back, he got to keep the core of the team he worked with. And as Samuel mentioned, dude will be trying to keep food on his family’s table. I don’t see where he fails.
But like I said, the job he has is one that is constantly on the edge. Signing a new contract only guarantees one thing: if it’s worded right (and it will be), you get a buyout if you’re fired. That’s it….
Big Ray
September 8th, 2009
12:42 am
Ariose,
Come on now! Siler > Jefferson? Okay, I”m not even going to go there , but I will come after a few other comments.
First, Minnesota is building around Jefferson. Yes, he hurt his knee. Guess what? Amare Stoudamire hasuffered more horrific injuries, and come back from each. Jefferson is a 22 and 11 player… in the Western Conference, no less .
Second, he doesn’t have to run the break. Al Horford can, and he is quick enough to keep up with Howard, trust me. Nobody is talking about stopping Howard. The key to beating Orlando is not letting their other guys tee off on you. When Lewis and Turkoglu were having their way with opponents, that’s what kept Orlando winning. It was that, in addition to the 20-something points and 15 rebounds that Howard was putting up. And Howard would not want to have to deal with a 6′10 270 lb Jefferson, with a quicker/more athletic Horford backing him up from the weak side.
You’re talking about a guy who got 36 points and 22 rebounds against Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets. In one game. Oh, did I mention that was against Battier, Scola, and Artest as well?
Look, I’m not bashing our guys, but we DO NOT have a low post player of that talent on our roster right now. We just don’t. Maybe Horford will be somewhere close to that good stat-wise if we ever let him play PF full-time. Or maybe not. But Jefferson? To put it in perspective, Boston would never have gotten Kevin Garnett if Jefferson hadn’t been part of the deal. Book it…
Big Ray
September 8th, 2009
12:47 am
Ariose,
A few more points. One, Josh Smith’s biggest problems have to do with immaturity and impatience. Impatience is where the turnovers come from. And the bad shots.
I agree, there is not enough passing from the backcourt, yet they average about 12 assists between them (JJ and Bibby). Yes, Jefferson has to be fed. That’s the whole idea. If a guy is shooting 50% from the field and averaging 23 points per game, you better dang well be feeding him. Not only that, but a solid (though in this case, all-star level) post scorer is what makes all perimeter players better. Bibby and JJ would be in a lot less pressure situations with a legit post threat around. Jefferson is that, if he’s nothing else. True, he’s not the dynamic defender that Smith can be. But part of defending is rebounding, and Jefferson delivers. EVERY NIGHT. That, and he blocks his own share of shots. Between him and a guy like Horford, we’d be fine. ..
No WAY would this be like trading for Isaiah Rider. No way.
Undilluted Serum
September 8th, 2009
1:12 am
real#1hawksfan
September 7th, 2009
8:17 pm
I must admit thats a tough pill to swallow. Acie law compared to Chris Paul. I somehow wish there was blog policing done here and anyone caught abusing comparisons should be ticketed!
Sautee
September 7th, 2009
6:11 pm
ever see a dog chasing his tail?
thehawkeye
September 7th, 2009
9:53 pm
I agree that boston is deep, however what made cleveland and orlando good was the two superstars. We are just as deep as last years orlando or cleveland minus the superstar. Boston is deep with or without KG. Give us a Quality center and we can compete and beat either one of those teams. The hawks did get better. Just not enough to close the gap to the point of us thinking about rings and a parade.
Huh?
blonju
September 8th, 2009
1:26 am
i’ve never seen so much talk about a trade that WILL NEVER happen . Al Jefferson is better than Smoove at everything except dunking, but i still wouldn’t make the trade – both players suit the teams they are already playing for . People need to realize that Al HORFORD is still only 23 years old and he WILL develop a post game . besides maybe andruw bynum, yao, and dwight, who else would you want at the 5 over Horford? maybe Al Jefferson here, but then there’s only Biedrins, Okafor, Chandler, Shaq? I will take the players we have and somehow convince Greg Popovich to leave S.A. for ATL – then we will win a title!
also, someone on here suggested we package mo and a first rounder for tony battie and a second rounder… that’s one of the dumbest things i’ve ever heard… you must not have seen tony battie try to play basketball.
i like the rodney carney idea if sund can pull another rabbit out of his hat.
everyone needs to leave smoove and marvin alone – we are stacked at every position… our weaknesses are: 1. coaching 2. perimeter defense (i.e., bibby is the worst defensive pg in the league) 3. half-court offense – fix the first one and the other 2 won’t be as notiable – i have come to like woody a little bit, but if he doesn’t learn how to be flexible and dynamic during a game, we won’t be able to maximize this teams’ potential.
NO MATTER WHAT, I’LL BE THERE ROOTING FOR OUR GUYS!
RISE UP HAWKS’ FANS! WE ARE RELEVANT!
RISE UP HAWKS!
Ariose
September 8th, 2009
2:10 am
Ray, I can’t deny that we need consistant low post scoring, or that Jefferson is a beast down there. I’d love to see a trial run with jefferson on our squad w/o smoove to see if it really would work…..IDK I just keep thinking of Chris Bosh and J.O’neal up in Toronto….not good lol.
I love Smoove, but he defently needs to step up and be more mature this season. He needs to stay his butt in the paint most of the time, and hit his Free Throws. If he does that, he’ll hit 20ppg sometime soon. He has a few more years to get right though. Hopefully sooner than later.
I’m banking on The Growth of Smoove+Horford+the supporting bench bigs to give us that consistancy we need in the frontcourt. Juuust enough for JJ and the guards to put us over the top in the end. It can happen, but It starts with Josh. Even with all of his problems, he’s still our best frontcourt prospect, it’s time for him to man up. He has the potential to be Al Jefferson and much much more.
Ariose
September 8th, 2009
2:21 am
I also must note that you all have probably seen Jefferson play a lot more than I have over the last few seasons…..It’s YOUTUBE FOOTAGE TIME!!!!!!!
I beleive he got injured in a game against us last season correct? Anyhoo he was killing us that game though, I cant deny it. He’s got a mean hook/floater game.
vava74
September 8th, 2009
4:27 am
I think we need to have the fan base behind the team, even if we are slow off the gates this year.
We need to have sell out crowds and the same enthusiasm that we had during the playoff series against Boston.
If we do that, we will have a good home record, like last year, and that is 60% of the job done.
If we revert back to a lethargic fan base with loads of empty seats, you can kiss the #4 seed goodbye.
This is a tough year with a less money available for people to buy tickets and all that comes with a trip to the arena and I am really afraid that people lost their confidence in the team on account of the poor showing with the Cavs.
The way that some people bash JJ, the best player to suit a Hawks uniform since ‘Nique around here is quite symptomatic of the lack of appreciation… if that spills into the general public, as I think it will if we only start 5-8 or something like that, we will not even reach the playoffs.
So, apart from the points focused by Sekou, which are quite obvious, the fan base needs to realize that the Hawks success also depends on support during less favorable periods, specially if they coming in the beginning of the season.
vava74
September 8th, 2009
7:21 am
Al Jefferson’s defense is very weak, both on the ball and off the ball, hence, he would lower our defensive efficiency dramatically (J-Smoove is also a weak on the ball defender, however, he is a very good team defender)
Al Jefferson’s numbers against us:
Against ATL G1 GS1 MIN34 FG7-17 3pt0-0 FT4-6 Oreb4 Dreb7 TotR11 Ass2 Stl2 Blk1 PTS18
These are very good numbers, however, they are not monster numbers (look at the 41,1% FG% against Al Horford and Zaza’s defense).
Horford was playing is first game coming out of an injury and did get in foul trouble against him and was not very productive, so he loses in comparison, however, Jefferson was the center of the Wolves offense whilst Al’s job (and Zaza’s) was to contain him (with the aid of zone def – see below), which I believe they did reasonably well.
Other interesting facts about this game:
We were playing without JJ and Marvin and Bibby lead the charge with 23 and 24 pts each. Marvin went to the line 7 times and nailed 11 out of 14 FT.
Kevin Love’s clip in 30 min (against J-Smoove’s, who played 39 min) was 16pts and 14reb, whilst J-Smoove’s 19 and 7 with 3TO and no blocks.
So, in the absence of JJ and against a PF which cannot be described as “athletic”, although he was very effective (8-13) J-Smoove did not step up his game dramatically (at least he did not launch any 3pters). His line was damaged by his 3-8 FT clip and his poor showing on the rebounding (can someone tell him that a PF’s job implies snatching at least 9 reb consistently??).
Out of the recap, it seems that our defensive organization saved the day:
“Completely flustered by Atlanta’s zone defense that fronted Jefferson, McHale wasn’t so concerned with the missed shots but the complete lack of ball movement.”
red
September 8th, 2009
7:50 am
maybe bibby should stop listening to woody and organize the play himself then maybe we’ll be seeing more pick roll plays now that we have collins and joe smith, players who i think is very familliar with that kind of play. collins used to do pick and roll plays with kidd when he was with the nets and as far as i can remember i think collins is capable of making solid screen while bibby can use joe smith in a pick and pop since joe has an ability to hit perimeter shots.
Daniel
September 8th, 2009
8:43 am
Sekou,
I am excited to get training camp started. When will we get an announcement on invitees?
In answer to your question, clearly the biggest burden this year is on Woodson. This is the year that either he will or he won’t gets decided.
Joe’s contract extension will determine how big this season will be for him. But, his overall consistency will not be affected.
Ultimately, it still comes down to Marvin, Al, and/or Josh. Who will step up? Will one of these players become All-Star caliber?
Our best chance of taking the next step is for one of those players to expand his game(not shooting more, Josh!).
As a fan, I hope it is all three. If I had to choose one….
I am going with Marvin.
Rod, start your engine.
Sekou Smith
September 8th, 2009
8:48 am
I love Al Jefferson but not in place of either Josh or Al. I’m also concerned with the injuries he continues to suffer. He’s the same age as Josh and Al but has much more wear and tear on his body. Josh and Al have sprained ankles or whatever, Jefferson has torn stuff. And for those of you that think he’s a center, I’d argue that the gripes people make about Al Horford not being a true 5 apply to Jefferson as well.
Daniel
September 8th, 2009
9:11 am
Sekou- where did this Jefferson thing get started. Is this just a blog thing?
You make an excellent point about Jefferson’s injuries. I would stay away from that guy with a ten foot pole. His game and body don’t match up. He reminds me of Kerry Woods in baseball. He has talent and the stuff, but in order to generate his game he destroys his body.
Ramon
September 8th, 2009
9:12 am
Big Ray, last season who you think had more bad shots? Josh? Joe? Bibby? and Flip? I’d say Josh had the least amount of ‘bad’ shots of all them. (and I think his FG % would agree).
Ramon
September 8th, 2009
9:17 am
Sekou, thank you. People for get Al didn’t have those numbers until he was traded away from Boston, and went to what was the residue of a team in Minnesota. Smooth and Horford offers mismatches if Woody would use them correctly.
Big Ray, you say impatience cause turnovers for Smooth. But do you not think that happens less, than the PATIENCE Joe and Bibby plays with. And when that same patience ends up being TOs from double teams or shot clock violation. And sometime that same ‘patience’ that Joe and Bibby uses, ends up being a swing pass to Smooth with 3 seconds on the shot. Do you not remember how many times Zaza would come and have to try and drive from the elbow or top of the key? Horford had to do the same thing. Our bigs probably get the ball passed to them on the block less than 10-15 times a game. That is 3 bigs on the block who can average 10 ppg each at least. I would be very impatient also then.
vava74
September 8th, 2009
9:24 am
I think people complaint about Al at the 5 spot on account of his lack of offensive moves down low, which is something Jefferson obviously already has and would be able to bring if he came to us.
However, I, on the other hand, believe that Horford will develop a serviceable offensive game and that he will continue to provide solid defense (which Jefferson would not bring).
On set occasions, we can now put the new bodies (J.Smith and Collins) on the larger 5’s so Al gets a breather.
Ramon
September 8th, 2009
9:32 am
Sekou, Mike’s doing a lot of talk about the contract this year. But what kind of talking is he doing with the subject of changing or developing the offense? How does he feel about Charles and Kenny blasting him on offense for having a ‘your turn’ offense? Also is there anyway you could possibly set up some small interviews with the assistant coaches, like Drew? I ask this because we all know if the Hawks are less than .500 in their first 20 games, Drew will be taking over the press conferences. So would love to know more about him.
All I'm Saying Is...
September 8th, 2009
9:48 am
Sekou: Are we going to sign Siler?
BBgenie
September 8th, 2009
9:51 am
Hawks Fans: Please pump your brakes, let’s see how our team developes. We have everything a Great NBA team needs to win except that (Thug) element/Toughness AKA. (Flip Murry). Who will emerge as our Floor Leader? or leader on the court? Who will police the Locker room? Who will keep Smooth in check? How will we get Coach Woodson to use a 10 man rotation during the season? Who will keep Bibby’s mind right when Crawford and Teague dig into his minutes? How will we get Joe Johnson to stop his habit of Ball stopping in our 1/2 court sets? How can we get Coach Woodson to re-build the teams mind set of DEFENSE wins Championships!!! Rebounds=Rings!! Hawks must have Top 4 Defensive numbers to advance to Eastern Conference Finals!! Defense! Defense! Defense! Our Rebounding Must become main Focus on both ends of the floor to get us to the promise land. Oh! listen up hater’s Jeff Teague will make us all forget about not drafting CP3 or D.Williams. Just WAIT!
Undisputed Champ
September 8th, 2009
9:56 am
Swatguy
I agree with you that being with out contract makes it more difficult to declare law in the locker room. How much weight can a lame duck carry? This is particularly important when you consider that Woody is the Leader who is taken the charge of a team of youngsters.
Its clear to me, if not to the anti-Woody entourage. If youve ever held a position of leadership youd understand that one thing you surely need; is for your supporting cast to believe that managment is behind you and indeed you represent the voice of the organization, it goes to authority. Try managing youngsters with out authority.
A no brainer to me.
kwooden1
September 8th, 2009
10:05 am
Good to see all the HAWKS talk well before training camp. Shows what a little winning will do for a fan base.
I think Hoops started the Jefferson. vs Smoove talk, sounds like a mute discussion to me. But if we’re talking fantasy land then why don’t we trade Horford for Howard and JJ for Lebron, then we might have something!!
I’m really looking forward to training camp because I want to see how the chemistry with Crawford goes. He fits right in as a replacement for Flip, but I really like to see him work with Teague. I think everyone is going to be happy to see the improvement from Al. I didn’t see him transform in the FIBA tournment, but definitely saw steady improvement. The HAWKS really need to run their half-court offensive through him. In the FIBA tournment he did a great job of picking his spots to score on a guard dominated team. The Dominican team was a lot like the HAWKS because they featured a jumpshooting PG and a SF/SG that took a lot of shots. Not to mention Villanueva, a PF who plays like a SG. Horford was undersized against several players, but did very well. He was often referred to as the leader on the team.
I think Smoove will come back this year with a better face-up jumpshot and more post moves. Unlike most people on the blog, I want Smoove to push the ball on the breaks, he just needs to pickup his dribble around the 3pt line if he sees no lane to drive or no where to pass. Pushing the ball off rebounds is where he can take the most advantage of his athletic ability.
GO HAWKS!!!
Suicide lines: Iverson close to becoming a Grizzly Bear | Sports News Images and Videos
September 8th, 2009
10:20 am
[...] Sekou Smith, AJC: "You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone that isn’t convinced that the Hawks’ GM has done a masterful job in his first 13 months on the job. He’s made all the right moves and steadied the organization through one of their best seasons in years. But the toughest challenge comes this season. Rick Sund will have to gauge the Hawks’ progress by the February trade deadline and decide if this team, as presently constituted, provides the best chance for long-term success or not. If not, he’ll have to pull the trigger on the right deal to push the Hawks over top (sort of like his predecessor did two years ago when Billy Knight pulled the trigger on the Mike Bibby(notes) deal). Gone are the days when the Hawks’ GM could simply suspend the franchise in rebuilding mode or just maintain. The next step is moving upward and onward, and that almost always requires a deft personnel move one way or another." [...]
jerrywest
September 8th, 2009
10:54 am
Wolves GM will hang up the phone if Sund calls to get Jefferson for Smoove or Al. Lets get back to reality.
Crawford will so overshadow Teague, Mo and perhaps Bibby that Woody will not want to give much playing time to Mo or Teague. If Teague can already prove that he deserves some playing time over Crawford, he is a future all star. He is not a lotter pick folks. 18 teams passed on him.
If Horford doesn’t show some major improvement in offense this year, he may never average 20 ppg.
Rod from College Park
September 8th, 2009
11:16 am
Daniel,
Don’t hold your breath.
terrell barron,
“Rod, has Horford played up to the ability we thought we had when we drafted him at #3? Did Chills play up to the ability we thought we had when we drafted him at #6? Did Acie play up to the ability we thought we had when we drafted him at #11? Stop hatin on Marvin. Draft status is an afterthought once you make it to the next level. Marvin is a part of this TEAM. Get over it man. And you think JJ was tied last year, let him go out there and try to guard the Lebron’s, the Pierce’s, the Rashard’s, and the Granger’s every night.”
Yes Horford has lived up to his draft status to me. I did not expect him to be a dominant offensive player coming out of college. He has done what we drafted him to do. Can his game improve? Yes, But he is an above average center in the league. Chills did not play to his ability offensively coming out of college, but he more than made up for it with his intangibles (defense, rebounding and versatility). As for Acie, a number #11 pick is in no way comparable to the # 2 pick. Being drafted #2 means that the team that drafted you clearly thought you we the best player available to draft either by position or overall in that draft. Is it not apparent that Marvin was not, by position or overall. I would take the # 17 pick in that draft, Granger over Marvin any day all day. We won’t even go into Paul or Williams. I disagree, draft status is not an afterthought, it was the reason Marvin was able to command the type of money he just got. I am hating no more than people who don’t like Josh (Samuel) or Woodson (Ken). It’s my opinion, and I am entitled to it. Don’t know your age, but maybe you should ask someone who is hip-hop savvy what hating means. You hate on someone when you have no reason to dislike them, but you dislike them anyway, because of what they have or what they do. I have a reason to dislike Marvin’s game. He is not that good. JJ actually ends up guarding the Lebron’s and Pierce’s anyway, so I don’t think anything would change.
Astro Joe
September 8th, 2009
11:22 am
Trying to make something happen. Is that like “keeping it real? A rationalization for doing/saying something stupid?
I say that the pressure is on Woody to manage this team for a strong 2nd round playoff performance. And that means focusing on road wins, beating the elite teams and increasing the margin of victory. And Joe likewise needs to ensure that he is focused on the playoffs. People are forgetting his playoff performances as a Sun, so he needs to ensure that he is physically and mentally ready to excel in the postseason as a Hawk. If Joe wants to take the next step from All-Star to a truly elite player, he needs to have some elite playoff performances.
One more quick one, I fully expect that Bibby will become this team’s definitive leader.
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
11:22 am
realhawksfan, with Paul, JJ, Zaza, Joe Smith, and Smoove, we are ELITE? Idk about that? Remember, we wouldn’t have Horford if we had Paul. I’ll take Horford, Marvin, and Bibby over CP3 all day long. And btw, we’d also lose JJ this year. No way the ASG would pay Paul and JJ. If they did, we wouldn’t have a bench.
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
11:37 am
Samuel, Josh Smith isn’t going anywhere. Lets be real man. He’s a good player who brings EXCITEMENT to the arena. He’s also a hometown boy with a TON of fans. It would’nt make any sense for the ASG to move him. Not from a business standpoint, or a basketball standpoint for that matter. The kid can play. Yeah, he makes some stupid decisions sometimes, but he usually makes up for it.
Undisputed Champ
September 8th, 2009
12:11 pm
kwooden1
September 8th, 2009
10:05 am
I agree. Smooth looks OK on the breaks, and he can finish!
jerrywest
September 8th, 2009
10:54 am
If Horford could average 18 to 20 points a game and 10 rebounds we are going to the conference finals! In a perfect world. Seem to me that your fact are pretty accurate on the guard rotation. I like Bibby but hes on his last leg, literally and figuratively.
If The GM has done such a masterful job then why are we paying 5.5million more for the same results we pay 500,000 for? And Where is the Center 80% of us agree we need? Why Crawford over Flip? Again we could have got nearly the same numbers for much less. We could have save enough to get a legitimate center. Hes doing good for an average GM with average goals in mind. How about an attitude of winning it all!
I MUS WRITE
September 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
Samuel that line up would work,but no need to dream about a trade that wont happen -this is probably our best team as far as overall talent since Mookie and Smitty left, Smoove will piss you off every few games but give me the all around game over a one deminsional guy like AL-dont get me wrong he’s good but i only see him score on the blocks -With both Al’s here there wont be enuff room for them to operate in the post and the way our guards jack up shots his ppg avg would dip big time and we dont need chemistry problems right now.
BBgenie
September 8th, 2009
1:13 pm
GO HAWKS!!
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:16 pm
Undisputed, how can Horford avg 20 points when were a JUMPSHOOTING team. Why do youn think Smoove likes to hang out on the perimeter? If he stayed inside, he would’nt get any touches.
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:26 pm
Undisputed, when Woody one his championship in Detroit, Ben Wallace was playing center. How mant points did he avg? In Woody’s offense, or lackthereof, the center just basically rebounds, and plays defense. Hell, our sf, pf, and pg dont even avg 20 points. Much less Horford. I’ll be happy if he could just avg 15 and 10. That’s plenty. Comre to think of it, what center avg’s 20 points or more, besides Howard?
Samuel
September 8th, 2009
1:29 pm
Pts/Reb/Asts Leaders> 2008-2009> Regular Season> All Positions> All Players> Per Game> All Conferences> Raw Stats
Note: Rookies for the season denoted by an asterisk (*)
2008-09 (Points + Rebounds + Assists) LEADERS : Average
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP PTS PPG REB RPG AST APG Total Avg
1 LeBron James , CLE 81 2,304 28.4 613 7.6 587 7.2 3,504 43.3
2 Dwyane Wade , MIA 79 2,386 30.2 398 5.0 589 7.5 3,373 42.7
3 Chris Paul , NOH 78 1,781 22.8 432 5.5 861 11.0 3,074 39.4
4 Kobe Bryant , LAL 82 2,201 26.8 429 5.2 399 4.9 3,029 36.9
5 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL 81 2,094 25.9 681 8.4 197 2.4 2,972 36.7
6 Dwight Howard , ORL 79 1,624 20.6 1,093 13.8 112 1.4 2,829 35.8
7 Al Jefferson , MIN 50 1,156 23.1 548 11.0 79 1.6 1,783 35.7
8 Chris Bosh , TOR 77 1,746 22.7 771 10.0 191 2.5 2,708 35.2
9 Kevin Durant , OKC 74 1,871 25.3 482 6.5 205 2.8 2,558 34.6
10 Danny Granger , IND 67 1,728 25.8 341 5.1 183 2.7 2,252 33.6
Josh Smith #64
Al Horford #89
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:31 pm
Undisputed, I meant won, not one.
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:35 pm
Samuel, Jefferson has to avg what he does to give Minnesota ANY CHANCE OF WINNING. Smoove has a lot more talent around him.
new blood
September 8th, 2009
1:54 pm
Jsmoove just play D and the rest will fall into place.
Tony
September 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
If this team wins anything it will be because of Josh Smith. Not Joe Johnson. I’m sorry. Dont’t hate. appreciate. Joe is as good as he gets. Joe is not going to get any better. But Josh if he can mix exceptional talents and gifts with a good, sound attitude, he can be our BEST player. Think about that. Your best player, Josh Simth, is getting (or could be) getting less than Joe Johnson (assuming he signs his extension) per year. That’s sound stupid to me. Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to bash Joe but Josh will be the reason the hawks win anything at all (while Joe will be a good supplemental piece.
Sautee
September 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
“And Where is the Center 80% of us agree we need? ”
LOL! ROFL!
80% of “us”?
You can’t count pseudonyms! Of course that WOULD raise the % if you did.
In my opinion, closer to 80% are satisfied that Horford, though looking like a power forward, mans the Center spot better than most. He’s EASILY a top ten Center and he’s only 23 years old and entering his third season.
Would I like to see more out of him? Most Assuredly! And I think we’ll get it. But FIRST Woody (and by extension Joe and Bibby) need to start demanding an inside game from Al and Josh. Feed them incessantly and it’ll transform the offense. I KNOW that you recognize the good decisions that Horford makes with the ball. Let’s make that a weapon.
Samuel,
Josh had 849 shot attempts last year. Al had 594.
The person with the LEAST attempts on your list is Jefferson with 1156 and he just played 50 games. The next least is DHoward with 1624 attempts.
Give Josh and Al that many shots and see where they would rank.
And yes, I’m fully cognizant that they have to produce when called upon. But we give up on both of them usually about halftime. They need more shots. Period.
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:31 pm
Super T I have to agree. I was responding to “JERRY WEST”. My orginal thought was to add that I dont see any pigs flying…
15 and ten would be some serious numbers that again would have us in the hunt seriously!
Looks like were on the same page…Yet I also agree with Jerry West that if you get 20 out of the horford at the center spot we are in the hunt for a world title. No doubt.
Of couse if “ifs and “ands” were pots and pans… the world would be a kitchen!
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
2:43 pm
In case anyone is reading… the AJC recently ran a poll asking what people thought was the major positon that needed to be addressed on the Hawks. Better than 80% responded Center. That doesnt express great confidence in using a powerforward to play center. Clearly learned basketballites know how imperative it is to Play a center in the center spot.
I recently reveiwed how Bird, Majic, Jordan, Kobe, and now Lebron all ask for a center if any team has hopes of keeping them around. I dont recall if any asked for a powerforwarded. These 5 have one thing in mind…Winning a title.
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
terrell barron
September 8th, 2009
1:16 pm
Smoove goes out side because we dont have a center to force their center or powerforwards off the block. We havent been strong enough to ” MAN THE POST”. If we can get their 5 off the block then our slashers can finish in the paint. It all starts with the post.
dap01
September 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
What center averages 20 PPG if there is no offense run through him? What center averages 20 PPG if there are no offensive plays other than shoot if you get a chance?
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
Sautee
September 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
I respect your opinion. I dont however agree with it. You have my respect.
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
2:56 pm
Sautee
September 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
I hope you are right! What you say is very possible. I guess the Drama builds….LOL
Astro Joe
September 8th, 2009
3:01 pm
I’m fairly certain that the leading scorers listed above don’t have another FIVE players on their teams averaging 10+ PPG. While I’d like to see our front-court get more looks, our offense is more like a television show featuring an ensemble cast (think “Lost”) as opposed to a star-vehicle (like “24″). And remember, with more depth comes fewer shot attempts… as we’re not likely going to create another 500 offensive possessions just to give Joe Smith and Jeff Teague a few shots at the rim.
undisputed champ
September 8th, 2009
3:06 pm
dap01
September 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
Thats fair enough… But, most offensive schemes that run through the 5 spot are designed to accentuate the talent of the big fellow. Horford doesnt play well with his back to the basket and he doesnt have a lot of offensive tools to work with. It is also difficult for his frame to take it to the rack physically with a man on him. He has no sky hook or slick spin moves. Hes not a great jumper and hes too light in the pants to back anyone down low.Its hard to do a technicians service call without tools!! He cant create his shot but must depend on a pass when hes left alone or a long rebound and put back. Thats not offensive talent but blue collar service. Lets be real. Hes no olajuwan. More like a Dennis Rodman.
Master Chef...Sautee!
September 8th, 2009
3:18 pm
Would I like to see more out of him?(Horford) Most Assuredly! And I think we’ll get it. But FIRST Woody (and by extension Joe and Bibby) need to start demanding an inside game from Al and Josh. Feed them incessantly and it’ll transform the offense. I KNOW that you recognize the good decisions that Horford makes with the ball. Let’s make that a weapon.
TheWyzyrd
September 8th, 2009
3:18 pm
Hey S.S., I guess we’re neighbors. That was your grill I smelled yesterday. Seems I should have followed my nose. I come to offer you assurance about your beloved Wolverines. However, I think it will take Rich Rod three years in the Big 10. Yes, he did it in two at WVU, but the Big East isn’t the Big 10. Ya’ll have a much better recruiting program, too. Sure RR comes with baggage, gut he is also a big-time winner. I’m sure he has played the Pitt loss two years ago in his mind over and over. Something like that will never happen to him again. He’s that kind of coach. The key to his offense are speed and a highly mobile quarterback. I don’t now about this kid Forcier, but I’d bet he’s pretty close. The offensive line has to make the biggest adjustment. But he produced a number of quality bigs at WVU so I don’t think the physicality will be the problem. It’s the zone reads. His system is different than anyplace else. If he can keep his job both from his personal distractions to the Wolverine Nation not wanting to wait, he will give you not only what you want, but much much more. He certainly did for the Mountaineers. We lost one should have won and would have played for the National Championship. We didn’t, but we are in a much better place than when he took over. Most WVU fans can’t see beyond their hurt and anger. He gave us what no coach ever did, are REAL chance at a National Championship. Heck, there are nine guys on that team in the NFL. Just give him time.
Sautee
September 8th, 2009
3:39 pm
undisputed champ,
Thanks, I think. It’s OK, I’m left-handed, so left-handed compliments work for me.
So, back to our hopefully still civil disagreement. You said this: “I recently reveiwed how Bird, Majic, Jordan, Kobe, and now Lebron all ask for a center if any team has hopes of keeping them around.”
First off, Magic didn’t have to ask for anything. Kareem was ALREADY on the Lakers when Magic arrived.
Bird asked for a Center and got Robert Parish. Good player whose career averages were: 14.5 pts 9.0 reb 1.4 ast 1.47 blk.
Gee that’s very similar to Horford’s numbers from last year:
11.5 pts 9.3 reb 2.4 ast and 1.42 blk
MJ asked for a Center and got Bill Cartwright. Good player, whose career averages were: 13.2 pts 6.3 reb 1.4 ast and 0.7 blk
Gee, once again similar numbers to Al except that Al had more rebounds, assists, AND blocks. Hmmmm.
Ok, ok, MJ had another Center when he came back. Will Perdue.
Perdue’s career averages: 4.7 pts 4.9 reb 0.8 ast 0.7 blk. Well, I guess when you play with MJ, Pip and Rodman you just had to have a warm body.
I’m not sure what your point was, but can you see that Horford ALREADY is doing the job that Parish and Cartwright and Perdue did for their teams? (you know, the guys these superstars “asked” for)
Horford’s a GREAT “glue” guy but our “superstar” is NOT Kobe or LeBron.
If he WERE, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Sautee
September 8th, 2009
4:10 pm
undisputed champ,
I agree with your 3:06 post that Horford has more blue collar than finesse on offense. His one undeniable skill is his foot speed. But we fail to take advantage of this. He could easily average that 15 and 10 you are looking for if we would, just 3 times a game, feed him while he’s beaten his man to the paint and has an advantage of his opponent being out of position. I’ve seen OVER AND OVER times when Al has done this and JJ just looks at him while pounding the dribble. He could score 4-6 more a game without a single play called for him if we did this. And get the opposing center in foul trouble, to boot.
Also, thanks for explaining that the 80% was from a poll. I pay ZERO attention to those kinds of polls, as they are usually very superficial (think Sports Nation). Some of the AJC poll questions are absurd and show the ignorance of the staff there.
I’ll have to say that I’d be SHOCKED if 80% of the posters HERE thought that Al was the weak link. But, I’ve been shocked before.