Look who’s talking …
SAY IT LOUD! SCREAM, if you have to. Hawks' captain and All-Star Joe Johnson has suddenly become a Twitter machine. But he's not the only resident of our tight-knit community in a talkative mood these days. Hawks coach Mike Woodson is, too.
HAWKSVILLE - Whoever thought that late August and early September would be a quiet time for the Hawks didn’t count on Twitter changing the game.
Hawks captain and All-Star Joe johnson, known around the NBA as one of the league’s more subdued stars, has suddenly taken the gloves off on his Twitter page. He hasn’t mentioned anything about that extension the Hawks offered and whether or not he’ll be agreeing to sign on for another four years after this one, the final year of a five-year, $70 million deal.
But he’s sharing plenty of other things with anyone interested in following him. In fact, he’s sharing more than I can remember him giving up at anytime before now (and he might be sharing a bit too much for some of our more sheltered members, so be warned). I’m still scratching my head over this one, what with all the work it takes some days to get JJ to open up.
Maybe he’s shedding that hard shell of his and taking some steps in the direction of being a more vocal and engaged leader, which I’d argue is a blessing in disguise of peculiar Tweets (or whatever I should call them) from a usually reserved man – he went almost two months, from late June to late August, without a single update. I’m just saying … (scratching my head), something has changed.
JJ isn’t the only member of the family talking these days. You might remember the ditty we had with Hawks coach Mike Woodson way back when detailing the fact that he would head into the final year of his contract without an extension.
Well, Woody spoke about it again late last week in an interesting story by my main man Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports. I don’t expect this story to move the needle at all on the non-existent extension talks for Woodson and his staff.
We’ve had the Woody debate around here for pretty much every day of the past five years (or so). And the sides never seem to give much ground. The Woody supporters (Steamboat has been relentless from the outset) have campaigned for him without fail, through good and bad times. The Woody detractors have been equally steadfast and resolute in their belief that he’s not the right guy for the job.
The anti-Woody camp was winning the debate his first three years on the job. But the pro-Woody crowd is crowing a bit these days (with the pro-Rick Sund crowd soul-clapping their guy into the discussion as well).
As far as I can tell, the general mood of the partisan divide at this time was captured best by our good friend RA, who fired off this email late last week after the Hawks finished up Joe Smith’s paperwork:
“This summer can only be summed up in one word, brilliant. Everything that the Hawks usually don’t do, Sund managed to pull off. He managed to get marquee talent while at the same time giving up very little. He managed to keep the core of the team together, something that I would have thought was impossible going into this summer. He’s also managed to bring in a veteran, that the young fellas are going to listen to. All I can say is that regardless of what else happens this summer, Sund has done EVERYTHING that he could have been expected to do. The question now is whether or not Woody can handle the arithmetic?
Whatever side you’re on in this thing, one thing is certain. When the season starts, the pressure is all on Woodson (who, by the way, has been asking for a roster like this since he took the job) and his staff. Because for once, the summer has gone just as about as well as it possibly could have for the Hawks. The expectations from last season to this one couldn’t be higher. And with so many familiar faces returning and so few new additions (four might seem like a lot, but when three of them are seasoned vets like Smith, Jamal Crawford and soon-to-be Jason Collins, along with rookie PG Jeff Teague, a rugged transition is not expected) folks won’t tolerate a slow start.
The Collins tidbit, which was folded into Sunday’s Hawks’ Insider, is proof that these guys aren’t finished filling out this roster. The frontcourt could see the addition of at least one more player after Collins. And said player could punch his ticket for the season with a strong training camp showing. That means a host of guys, including Garret Siler, Othello Hunter and perhaps even Mario West (should he decide to attend) could crank up the tenor of what should be an otherwise business-like training camp.
Hunter and West (twice) have already shown that they are capable of making the team with strong camp showings. The dynamic changes a bit this year, though. If the Hawks plan on keeping the roster at 13 players, which according to most of the folks I’ve spoken to seems to be the way they are leaning (in an effort to maintain roster flexibility should another player shake out of the league’s training camp covers later on), they’ll have to make a tough choice about that 13th man.
Do they want a third point guard as security for Mike Bibby and Teague? – And yes, Crawford can play the point in a pinch but is better off playing at shooting guard.
Do they scour the landscape for a utility player that won’t rock the boat if he’s in a suit most nights as opposed to a uniform?
Or do they go the safe route and locate one more big man as injury insurance, in case they suffer through the wave of injuries again up front like they did last season (when Josh Smith, Al Horford and Marvin Williams all succumbed to injuries at one time or another)?
The pickings are slim everywhere but point guard, where journeymen always seem abundant. But a third point guard isn’t specifically necessary unless someone higher on the depth charts hits a snag (injury or otherwise).
Still, I think the smart play here is keeping a spot or two clear for the best-player-available in late October.
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445 comments Add your comment
Liberals Suck
August 31st, 2009
12:34 am
Joe talks about tongueing random chicks at the club for $5,000….it’s a good read
red
August 31st, 2009
12:35 am
1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
Gilley
August 31st, 2009
12:39 am
I thought Joe Johnson’s page got hacked how he was talking…lol
But if it wasn’t I hope he shows his personality on the court more, have some fun, and speak up. It will help him get more calls, and help his teammates feed off of his energy. If we get Jason Collins I will be happy but he will be another big to eliminate the chances of Randolph Morris and possibly Garret Siler from developing because we all know Woody wont play them
This NBA season needs to hurry up. I can’t wait!!!
chemdawg
August 31st, 2009
12:39 am
Flip took over more than 1 or 2 regular season games last year. Maybe he’ll take the minimum?
Gilley
August 31st, 2009
12:49 am
I thought Joe Johnson deleted his page but he changed the name and deleted his crazy tweets about kissing random chicks for $5k LOL!!!!
http://twitter.com/JoeJohnson501
KEn
August 31st, 2009
1:19 am
Gilley….he didnt delete those tweets, they still there my dude
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
2:22 am
I know Joe was closet motormouth from last season when they had that team special on SportsSouth lol. Still, He should leave the profanity to us bloggers, since we don’t have to worry about our images too much on here(…basically, no one cares about us hehehe!!!) He should call JR smith and ask him how the local Denver Media torched him to the point where he shout his Twitter page down….although, we don’t have rutheless media like that around here heh……just as bored though hehehe…
Ray, Spot on assesment about Bibby on the last blog. Your “Substantial Shadow” analogy reminds me a lot of my “Shadow Defense” wich is what I’ve dubbed my defensive “prowess” at the end of a long day of pick up games in the gym hehehe….We need Bibby though, no doubt about it; and saying the man was robbed is an understatement. “Kicked under the Bus” is more accurate if you ake me. 21ppg in 06? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! Sombody shoulda been slapped for not putting him on the team.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
2:37 am
Woodson needs to stop Crying. IT’s his fault that his team is developing faster than he is….PERIOD. Harsh, I know; but it’s so true. He’s had a better squad each and EVERY year. And every year his player rotations have gotten worse and Worse. At MOST he deserves a little mid season bonus for coming up with a solid defensive “scheme” last season, but thats about it. He still doesn’t make good in-game adjustments, and the only reason were not calling for his head is because our General Managers are getting him better players which, makes him look like a better coach.
Make no mistake about it though. Better coaches have done a lot more with FAR LESS talent(Larry Brown last season almost had the cats in the playoffs).
Like I said, out team is out growing him. Were getting organically better AND adding better talent, but woodson’s coaching hasn’t changed. This is what I personally wanted to see though. I wanted Rick Sund to give Woodson a LOADED roster to see what he was really made of. We’ll this season. seems like the right time to find out, we’ve got a nice roster shaping out.
Siler will make the squad over ‘Rio and Hunter(IDK what y’all see in this guy….oh well) and we still need a long 3rd string SF in case of injuries to Marvin and/or Mo (Rodney Carney, Gerald Green, Korolev etc.)
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
3:07 am
Truth, Boby is a beast but i’m pretty sure he’s about to turn 40 lol….seriously.
MannyT
August 31st, 2009
6:04 am
Sekou, in yur case I guess it is welcome back from fakation (fake vacation)
If they numbered posts, what would all those FIRST people have to blog about?
I’d still root for Mario to make this team…even if he is still in search of a jump shot. That energy level is hard to find. It gets the crowd and his team energized for that 4.3 seconds at the end of the quarter.
Maybe one of JJ’s crew got ahold of his Twitter account.
Rolling backwards @Ray. It’s all about the wins and expectations. If you win more than expected, you are seen as a good coach. I think Woody gets the good coach award for last season and the playoffs against Boston 2 seasons ago. Other than that, he really did not win more than expected. All that said, he has been better more recently, so that counts heavily in his favor. That’s why I said last blog that you consider him for an extension, but the economy works against him.
I would not say that there is a large demand for Woody, but I don’t want to replace him with Dick Vitale either.
@Samuel, note that is good coach, not coach of the year.
I like bringing in another experienced big. Imagine practice when the old guys team up in a situation where there are no refs. It will probably give the young guys fits at first. Kinda like when Danny Ferry was at Duke. He had a knack for knowing when he could get away with a little more holding and pushing than the next guy.
BWAF
Conservatives Don't Conserve They Kill
August 31st, 2009
6:37 am
JJ needs to re-up. Woodson’s final stand.
It’s all about this year!
honest_abe
August 31st, 2009
6:57 am
here’s what i find so funny. sund hasn’t done anything spectacular. in fact i’d say he’s done pretty much the same thing as bk. yet he’s being hailed as brilliant while bk was called a buffoon.
lets see sund kept together a core that bk put together. he added some pieces last year but it wasn’t like he added a big man, pg or coach which most hawks fans felt were the most glaring weaknesses. no instead he added an undersized sg and yet another swingman. i’m not sayin adding mo and flip were bad moves, they were great signings but the team didnt’ win soley because of those two guys. since then sund has managed to resign everyone and add jamal crawford through a trade. now everyone wants to annoint him as some kind of great gm. give me a break. with a broke ass ownership group, the hawk’s gm’s have had their hands tied. rebuild while spending as little as possible. gm’s have changed but the philosophy has not. the coaching staff has remained for the same reason. it’s the cheapest coaching staff available that they know they can with with to a certain extent.
jj, josh smith, bibby, horford, marv and zaza were all bk’s guys. kudo’s to sund for keepin it together but i think someone deserves a lil more credit.
smartguy
August 31st, 2009
7:38 am
Woody is still the WORST. Imagine how good the Hawks would be with a real coach….
Will he or won’t he… We all know that JJ will NOT be an Atlanta Hawk next year.
doc
August 31st, 2009
7:39 am
is joe talking any basketball on his twitter? what has he been doing to shape his game on the off season or is he too good for that? seems he has been working on a different game this summer from what was posted here. i remember a guy who fell flat for about 25 games last season and couldnt put a block or a steal on the books for weeks at a time.
The Truth
August 31st, 2009
7:54 am
Ariose
Actually Bobby Jackson is 36, but who’s counting. He’s in a class of other pass-prime active players: Grant Hill 36, Jason Kid 36, Theo Ratiff 36 and Linsey Hunter 37. This guy can still ball and he won’t whine about minutes at his age. Woody would be pleased to have a vet deep in his bench.
Melvin
August 31st, 2009
8:04 am
Our favorite 6th man didn’t make the list…
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13696
doc
August 31st, 2009
8:46 am
guess the reason lorens didnt make the top “journeyman” list is in the definition starting with this criteria ….. We can all probably agree a journeyman has to not only play for many teams (many being another subjective term), but also has to contribute to those teams. Guys sitting on the end of a bench for five different teams don’t exactly qualify.
maybe i missed this criteria in the article but standing in front of the popcorn popper doesnt qualify either does it melvin?
doc
August 31st, 2009
9:08 am
as far as woody this was posted on schultz’ blog on the same subject earlier today:
not surprised at all. didnt he essentially do the same thing during the playoffs with boston? after a losing season and several blowout losses in boston didnt he bring up the idea that since they had pushed the c’s into a deciding game he deserved more time as a head coach after delivering 37 wins and got there because of a point guard named bibby?
this also may turn out to be the theme of the season as well. it could backfire on woody as he might not pull out of the station according to expectations and be out on the street waiting for another chance to build a team where he is given/has less including ownership patience to turn it around. the owners like he has kept his mouth shut and have that as one of the primary reasons he is still around. guess woody didnt get the message.
a footnote here is i want the team to succeed so i wish woody well this season just dont know if this is the way to start it. will the team rally around him? is this his ploy? if karl doesnt have a contract then why should woody? maybe they are negotiating but geez that guy really cached last year through injuries, controversy and with a team no one would have thought could get that many wins.
ILL-logical
August 31st, 2009
9:16 am
Mr.Sund has done exactly what he was supposed to do:his job. But he did it in such a quiet and efficent manner I believe he desrves the accolades that are coming his way.
In contrast, the Falcons ,who have arguably a better front office and more solid ownership, short changed their roster on the defensive side of the ball and are now stuck with some undersized, and overwhelmed defensive backs after allowing their only 6′ +cornerback to leave. And they lost some key vocal leaders as well. Now they have to hope that they can outscore their opponents for more than 8 games in order to break their curse of not ever having had 2 consecutive winning seasons.
Whereas the Hawks are now working on their second consecutive winning season and third consecutive playoff appearance.
O'Brien
August 31st, 2009
9:55 am
Sekou,
I think the Hawks should pick up a 3rd PG (preferably a pass-first PG) for insurance.
For the Woody debate, all he has to do is win this year, and his contract will take care of itself. If the Hawks win 50 games, and play a very competitive 2nd round playoff series, then Woody will have earned his extension.
However, I wish he would get a different big man coach (because I dont think Ty Hill has done much for Horford and Josh), and let Larry Drew coach the offense.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
10:03 am
Truth, I agree. Bobby is/always has been a stud. I saw his first NBA game on NBA TV the other night, dude came into the leauge with some serious game. 27pts on opening night. He’s always been one of my favorite guards, especially back when Sactown was a perennial powerhouse. I’d love to see him as a 3rd PG on our roster.
Beck
August 31st, 2009
10:04 am
Good offseason so far. Kudos to Sund. While I have long been in the camp thinking Woody and staff has done a pretty good job – he can really prove himself this season. If we don’t extend him/staff and they have a great year (Strong 2nd round at least) we’re going to have to resign them to a pretty juicy deal.
I’m now wondering what we might do if we get to the trade deadline and are just that one player away from a big time run. Are we committed to this squad (which I like) or will Sund be willing to make a dramatic move. Pure conjecture at this point but the mind wonders in the summer basketball doldrums.
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
10:06 am
Ken, in your 10:11 post from last night, were you suggesting that a GM’s roster moves can greatly impact a head coach’s ability to be successful? If that was your point, my answeris… DUH, of course. Phil Jackson didn’t become a better coach after Kupchak acquired (I mean stole) Gasol from Memphis. He didn’t invent a new offensive scheme, he just inserted a very, very good big man into his starting line-up.
Sekou Smith
August 31st, 2009
10:06 am
I couldn’t agree more on the Woody deal, O’Brien. I’d wait on the third PG myself. I want to see how ready Teague is and to what extent he’ll be able to direct things, before diving into the journeyman point guard market.
Sekou Smith
August 31st, 2009
10:09 am
Beck nailed it with this passage:
“I’m now wondering what we might do if we get to the trade deadline and are just that one player away from a big time run. Are we committed to this squad (which I like) or will Sund be willing to make a dramatic move. Pure conjecture at this point but the mind wonders in the summer basketball doldrums.”
That’s the whole point for keeping those end of the roster spots free from clutter. If a move needs to be made that pushes this team to another level, you can make it at the deadline. But only if you have the roster flexibility to facilitate a good deal.
jerrywest
August 31st, 2009
10:17 am
There is a poll among die hard Hawks bloggers down in Hawk squawk on Woody’s contract extension status.
2 out of 44 Hawks fanatics want Woody’s extension this off-season. 14 wants him fired immediately. 28 wants to make a decision next summer.
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/339141-woodson-wants-contract-extension/
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
10:50 am
I have to be honest. I am really suprised at Joe Johnson’s Twitter page. That does not seem like anything that he would normally write or say. Not, that I know him personally or anything.
I still a huge Joe Johnson fan, but I would just say that for me his tweets don’t represent the kind of guy I thought Joe is.
I know when hangin’ with your boys guys talk differently, which is all well in good, when it is just between the boys, but he is putting this out there for EVERYONE.
He seemed to be self aware for that.
Just one fan who is a little disappointed.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
10:50 am
I meant too self aware
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
10:51 am
From Schutz’s Blog
jhay610
August 31st, 2009
10:40 am
To be fair, Woody coached some absolutely horrible teams that were not fit for an NBA schedule in accumulating that eyesore of a record.
He has done just enough to keep his job each year, never exceeding expectations but always just meeting that minimum threshold to keep hanging around.
If I wasn’t a Hawks fan by birth I couldn’t stand watching this team, despite its stock of exciting young players, because of how poorly coached they are on offense. No wonder Charles and Kenny gave us the business at every opportunity in front of that national television audience. It is appalling to watch top level professional players stand around dribbling the basketball until the end of the shot clock and then attempt to go one on five. We have no sets and hardly any plays – how many times have you seen the team come out of a timeout and get an easy bucket off of something that was drawn up in the huddle? Does that ever happen?
I also think Woody is quite possibly the worst game manager in the NBA. Though he has improved marginally in this regard, his use of timeouts always baffles me.
His constant whining and image positioning in the media always rubs me the wrong way – in the series with Miami when the Hawks went down 2-1, the Woodster went into spin mode, talking about how the Heat were such a great team with all these playoff veterans and how his Hawks were still learning. Nevermind that the Heat won, what, 15 games or so the year before while your team pushed the world champs to the brink?
I don’t think this guy could ever win a championship – he will always be exposed against the better coaching staffs in the league, and therefore would require a significant edge in talent. There is not a wide enough talent gap in the NBA to cover that weakness.
He’ll probably win another 1st round series and a couple games in the 2nd round and hang around for another one or two year extension; then we can hear him whine some more about not getting his long-term deal.
Ooh!! Yup Yup!!
The Truth
August 31st, 2009
10:52 am
Sekou
Assuming we had 15 players on the roster including guys like Hunter and Siler. If we needed to free-up a roster spot for a new player, could we just move a player to the D-league, would that be allowed?
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
10:54 am
Daniel, I agree. Bad PR move for Joe. I may send him a PM and remind him that the world(media) is looking at the twit feeds at all times…
jerrywest
August 31st, 2009
11:08 am
Ariose post at 10:51 am. – from jhay’s post.
Couldn’t have said it better. Brilliant.
Repeat :
From Schutz’s Blog
jhay610
August 31st, 2009
10:40 am
To be fair, Woody coached some absolutely horrible teams that were not fit for an NBA schedule in accumulating that eyesore of a record.
He has done just enough to keep his job each year, never exceeding expectations but always just meeting that minimum threshold to keep hanging around.
If I wasn’t a Hawks fan by birth I couldn’t stand watching this team, despite its stock of exciting young players, because of how poorly coached they are on offense. No wonder Charles and Kenny gave us the business at every opportunity in front of that national television audience. It is appalling to watch top level professional players stand around dribbling the basketball until the end of the shot clock and then attempt to go one on five. We have no sets and hardly any plays – how many times have you seen the team come out of a timeout and get an easy bucket off of something that was drawn up in the huddle? Does that ever happen?
I also think Woody is quite possibly the worst game manager in the NBA. Though he has improved marginally in this regard, his use of timeouts always baffles me.
His constant whining and image positioning in the media always rubs me the wrong way – in the series with Miami when the Hawks went down 2-1, the Woodster went into spin mode, talking about how the Heat were such a great team with all these playoff veterans and how his Hawks were still learning. Nevermind that the Heat won, what, 15 games or so the year before while your team pushed the world champs to the brink?
I don’t think this guy could ever win a championship – he will always be exposed against the better coaching staffs in the league, and therefore would require a significant edge in talent. There is not a wide enough talent gap in the NBA to cover that weakness.
He’ll probably win another 1st round series and a couple games in the 2nd round and hang around for another one or two year extension; then we can hear him whine some more about not getting his long-term deal.
Ooh!! Yup Yup!!
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
11:16 am
Ariose- Do you think it sounds like Joe?
In terms of Woodson, I tend to be among the supporters. And, anything that Schultz writes about basketball needs to be taken with the grain of salt. Remember he also thinks it is a bad idea to give Joe an extension. I think the situation is fine just the way it is. Woodson coaches this season with a better more veteran team that he has had a chance to develop. If he makes improvements then great, if not then… well…. bye bye.
I am willing to support him this season though. I think he can take us to the next level. I could be wrong, but the team only has a one year commitment to risk.
Mike is back
August 31st, 2009
11:28 am
What ‘s up Doc, things ain’t been the same since I drop my sweet pea off to WF…thanks to Sund for keeping a little sunshine in my day. I said it before and I said it again…GREAT JOB SUND…I’M FIRED UP ABOUT THE HAWKS!!!!
I’m WITH you on JJ…unless its something he can translate or duplicate in his game that improves his stewardship of the team…I’ll take pass on the rated X stuff. However, if it give JJ some much needed swagger and attitude…then I’m all for it…but tread likely JJ save it for the hardwood…don’t get to looooooooooooose…loosy…goose. LOL
Sekou, I’m some what at a cross road at this point with Woody…I never been a big fan…but I would like to see him succeed …he may have reach his threshold with this team. During the playoff, I actually saw him encouraging the team to play up-tempo ball…though it was mainly out of desperation…he still did it.
If he would commit to a more up-tempo style of play that takes advantage of the young racehorses on his team…then I think he would be viewed in a different light…Sund also drafted an up-tempo guard in the draft that he endorse…I think he is smart enough to realize the time is now. Let’s hope he finally gets it. He want have to look far if things doesn’t work out.
Chris
August 31st, 2009
11:48 am
Othello Hunter please..hardworking energy off the bench..
A Tribe Called Quest
August 31st, 2009
11:56 am
So glad to know that our 5th year All-Star is deciding to be vocal!
Yay!
HawksV
August 31st, 2009
12:01 pm
SEKOU…could you please give me an update on how our players have developed this summer. Has Horford got better, will Bibby come into camp in shape? How has JJ and Marvin expanded their like previous summers? These are all opportunities for you to minimize the summer basketball doldrums!
Nay511
August 31st, 2009
12:03 pm
The Hawks have made some nice moves this year but rookie PG Jeff Teague backing up Bibby is questionable. Teague is not ready yet. Bibby needs a defensive specialist, a la Bobby Jackson, to back him up like when he was in Sacramento. I think that if the Hawks dont resign Flip, they should try to sign free agent PG CJ Watson.
I think Woodson should move Joe Johnson to SF and put Crawford in the starting lineup in the backcourt with Bibby. Marvin should come off the bench at SF, Evans SG, but the Hawks need a backup PG with NBA experience if they want to compete in the East.
O'Brien
August 31st, 2009
12:13 pm
Sekou,
I know this is a basketball blog, but what’s going on with your Wolverines? Is Coach Rodriguez working them too hard? This might be another long year for Michigan…
As for the Jeff Schultz article, I dont think Woodson should be whining. This is the best team he has had since he’s been here. All Woodson has to do is say, hopefully, we will have a good season this year, and then the owners can evaluate the performance at the end of the year.
Woody, let your coaching do the talking. Woody has a chance to get a better deal this year than he would have gotten last year. Last year, we won 47 games, and went 4-7 in the playoffs. Just win 50 games, and then win 6 or 7 playoff games, and you will get your extension.
Hoops
August 31st, 2009
12:18 pm
If the Hawks sign Collins, that’s 12 players under contract. If they only sign 13, which is what Sekou seems to be hinting, then who do they need? West, Hunter, Siler, Sims, Robinson?
Sekou Smith
August 31st, 2009
12:19 pm
Don’t go there O’Brien. Ha. We went 3-9 last year. I’d say we need to work quite a it harder.
We’ll be able to get into that more in the next two weeks HawksV. As the players begin rolling back into town for their “voluntary” workouts they’ll be grilled accordingly.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
12:21 pm
Hoops, my early vote is for Hunter or Korolev, but the 3rd string pg is still up in the air. (t. lue?)
KevinA
August 31st, 2009
12:22 pm
The tweets make sense. JJ is probably a fun loving inmature good basketball. Bibby is a little more mature (since his marriage) but fun loving. Josh wants to fit in but neds to be treated like an equal. Marvin just shakes his head, works hard and reads a book. ZaZa and Al are the more serious type and treat the game as a business. Woody probably lets the team get away with alot of (stuff) off the court and barks on the court. Flip prob had to much of a gangster attitude to fit in. As they mature they should get better. Is this why JJ gets tired?
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
12:41 pm
Interesting perspective on Jamal Crawford.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/8/31/1008709/jamal-crawford-half-week-final
We need a “new Hawk you’re most looking forward to watching” poll. I’m guessing that Crawford will win but personally, I’m anxious to see Teague.
Hawksgirl
August 31st, 2009
1:06 pm
Dang jj. Let it all hangout huh? lol. But he needs to tone it down just a bit. Being vocal doesnt mean you have to be obnoxious and very xxx. Tread carefully jj and you are still my all time favorite player.
Woody needs to be patient or he will end up like the old falcons coach and get fired for mouthing off to the media. Be very carful woody.
HawksV
August 31st, 2009
1:08 pm
Appreciated Sekou…it will be nice to hear how the guys look and how they have improved or declined…I think one thing that we are overlooking with the added depth to the roster this summer is guys are going to compete at every position. Hopefully that forces all the hawks to grow and improve both mentally and physically.
doc
August 31st, 2009
1:08 pm
mike agree on many points, i dont even want to dictate the style as long as it isnt that crappy offense of pound the ball then run straight into five guys and somehow not be able to draw a foul. i just want to win. i can enjoy good defense as much as offense and did last year. however it takes game management of personnel and timeouts and a consistent offense when the pressure is on to score a basket or two through more than one guy. if woody can do that then we have a 55 game winner on our hands that could slip up on a team ahead of us with injury probs or old broken down bodies. any of the big three could go down if we stay healthy, play to what we have and they have their issues.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
1:30 pm
so doc, are you looking for 55 wins, 3rd or 4th seed with a strong playoff showing? Do we need to make the conference finals?
I am not picking. I seriously don’t know what a “sucessful” season for this team will be this year.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
1:34 pm
Good link on Crawford Astro Joe.
I remain hopeful that his role on this team as a scoring 6th man fits him the best and limits his defensive liabilities.
I am rooting for him, for obvious reasons.
I like the Teague pick, but he is not ready to make a significant impact in the league just yet.
Next year is when we should start expecting some things from him.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
1:59 pm
Daniel-It’s him. It’s been confirmed months ago. It may indeed have been a friend writing but it’s probably JJ. Sounds just like him. Still, he probably wouldnt want mama Johnson reading that
He should know better. It’s barely OK for leauge scrubs to be soo “homeboish” with the lingo on twitter without geting slammed by their local media, let alone a player on the verge of being a “superstar”…maybe lol.
He’s just lucky that he Tweets so infrequently that no one probably even realizes he’s back on there yet lol….I didn’t hehehe…Then again I havent been on Twitter in a while.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
2:10 pm
AJ, Nice piece sir. I’m still nervous about Crawford, but optimistic. He said he won’t let us down so….
Looks like Miami isn’t going to add another PG via Free Agency…..Flip to Memphis? Thats kinda scary; Flip, Orange.Juice Mayonaise, and Rudy Gay? Not to mention Thabeet and Marc Gasol……decent little roster right there.
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
2:18 pm
I assume the complaints about the offense stem from the playoffs, considering that the Hawks finished in the top 10 in offensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) during last year’s regular season. Not to mention that we had 6 players averaging double-figure points despite the belief that we run one play for one player.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2009.html
Melvin
August 31st, 2009
2:19 pm
Ariose, not enough balls in Memphis offense for that many chunkers. Gay has already complain about his touches during last season (or since the arrival of OJ)….
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
2:35 pm
Melvin, you may be right(I forgot about Randolph…..ugh) But it’s clear that conely can’t handle the Job (Jsckson, Flip, Tinsley and Iverson) awre the best names still floating around….Then theres Marbury and Steve Francis…..no.
Luther Head or John Lucas III may work for them.
whocares
August 31st, 2009
2:41 pm
YALL WORRIED ABOUT THE WRONG THING, AT THE END OF THE DAY HE’S A GROWN A** WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HE TWEETS, STOP BEING SO DAMN NOISEY, WHAT YALL NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IF HE’S LEAVING OR STAYING, I TELL YOU THIS IF HE LEAVES ATLANTA HAWKS WILL NOT BE THE SAME, CAUSE OF HIM, THATS WHY YALL MADE THE PLAYOFFS, IF IT WASNT FOR HIM, THERE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN A 7 GAME SERIES AGAINST BOSTON, AND MIAMI,
IF IT WASNT FOR HIM KILLIN WADE, SHOOTING FROM THE HAWK WING, THERE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN A SECOND ROUND, COME ON GUYS YALL KILLING ME WITH THIS B.S. AND YALL SAYING HE’S NOT LIKE LEBRON OR KOBE, WELL THEM TWO GOT HELP, HAWKS HAVE ZERO HELP, EVERY NITE HES DOUBLE, OR TRIPPLED, WHO DO YALL THINK HE IS SUPERMAN, THEN WHEN HE KICKS IT OUT, NOBODY CAN’T SCORE, WHEN KOBE OR LEBRON KICKS IT OUT THEY HAVE SOMEONE THAT CAN SCORE, SO DONT BLAME JOE FOR THE THE B.S. HE’S THE LEADER, THEY NEED TO FIND PLAYERS THAT ARE WILLING TO STEP UP, THATS JUST LIFE, U CANT WIN THEM ALL BY YOURSELF, IT TAKES A TEAM AND IF THE TEAMS NOT READY, WELL WHO CAN U COUNT ON, BUT EVERYTHINGS GOES BACK TO JOE OR WOODSON, MAN PLEASE KILL IT!!!! YALL SOME DUMMYS!!!
Blast
August 31st, 2009
2:46 pm
JJ twitting, Mike Woodson whinning, Hawks fans dreaming…
Woody needs to shut up and just coach. Period. Moaning in the press about not being extended does not make him look good. He will get his extension if his team performs well next season. Bottom line. Stop whinning, coach and just COACH!
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
3:36 pm
OMG
LMFAO!!!!!
Twitt Convo between Joe & a Fan
@littlerock02 why are you going to chi town big boi
Joe: Makin moves
@littlerock02 you have a big commitment to the hawks and all of the fans…please dont do something stupid to ruin what we have here
@iAMhawk2 i got u lil man
Hehehe!!! I think Joe Cool got the message.
Still….If Joe were your friend and he offered u Five stacks to French Kiss some random chick at the club would you do it? I didnt really think about it until just now…..I could sure use five stacks hehehe!!!
newkid
August 31st, 2009
3:45 pm
Not an apparent smart move (by Woody) to attempt subtle negotiations via the press. Seems he takes unwise advantage of selected interactions with media types to ‘needle’ Sund about not having received extensions for himself and his cadre (desired or not). Is he being encouraged (by his agent) to take this tact, or is he flying solo? The higher your profile, the more costly it is to fly solo and crash. Something to be said for scripts and teleprompters. Is it perhaps time to seek better counsel Mr. Michael Dean?
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
3:56 pm
Al Horford Talks a little Hawks and some Dominican National team Action:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-43-92/FIBA-Americas-Qualifier–Day-3.html
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
4:29 pm
Ariose, I thought Joe was LittleRock02 on Twitter. Now he is supposedly using his own name?
MannyT
August 31st, 2009
4:42 pm
Maybe it’s like Ariose talking to SalimFan…hmmm
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
4:43 pm
Manny, LOL. Or Sam to Rod.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
4:52 pm
Man, the more twitter stuff from Joe the worse it sounds. Aren’t what he is saying more of a text message btwn boys? Not really twitter stuff. I really don’t get it. I also don’t see how any twitter stuff means that you would be more of a vocal leader.
Joe is a young, single and rich. Enjoy your life within the rules, but you don’t need to publish your stuff.
Dang.
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
4:52 pm
“isn’t”
Daniel
August 31st, 2009
4:55 pm
newkid- what does he have to lose? He is already on a one year contract and basically a full season of on the job evaluation. Complaining that he feels like he should be extended doesn’t change that dynamic. It gives some people with an axe to grind(Jeff Schultz) the opportunity to call you a whiner, but for Sund, ASG probably makes zero difference. Perhaps his staff feels a little better that the coach is going to bat for them.
I think it is mountain out of mole hill type stuff.
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
4:59 pm
“Will the real Slim Shady please step up, please step up, please step up…”
So is Joe, I Am Hawk 2 (as in his jersey number), Little Rock 02 as in his jersey number and home town of Joe Johnson 501?
Big Ray
August 31st, 2009
5:00 pm
Astro Joe,
Interesting article on Jamal Crawford. Crawford detractors and closet Josh Smith haters would love that one.
Doc ,
I don’t know what’s going to happen with Woody, but I might be careful about what I said if I were him. I’m not saying he’s out of line, but coaches above all others have to be careful what they say (and how they say it) to the media about both players and GMs. I guess having his butt saved by the ASG when Billy was trying to can him has done something for his “confidence.” Well, the advantage there is that I think Billy f’ed up enough times to lose the edge as the boss. Sund, I believe, is in a different boat, and he is playing this better than Billy ever did. All the same, Woodson has but to win, and show that he can improve, along with an improved roster.
Someone else mentioned on another blog, I think, that the roster has improved every year, even if by just organic growth. Funny, that never gets mentioned as Woody gets the sole credit from some as the reason why.
doc
August 31st, 2009
5:22 pm
stro from the article it sounds like flip was jamal lite or jamal is flip on roids.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:26 pm
Oops, lol. It’s ben a while since i’ve posted a Twitter conversation on here. I for got to normalize it for the masses hehehe….
The Hawk Fan: why are you going to chi town big boi
Joe: Makin moves Note: he said other stuff….but…anyhoo
The aforementioned Hawk Fan: you have a big commitment to the hawks and all of the fans…please dont do something stupid to ruin what we have here
Joe Johnson: i got u lil man
See in tweet language, it only show who ur replying to and not who the poster it, so that’s probably what was confusing you….
More Joe:
“yo tweeple u mean to tell me ya’ll would’nt kiss a random person for 5 STACKS???”
…I might….
1) Does she know its about to happen
2) Does she have a handgun or Mase on her?
3) Does she brush her teeth. Does she have bad breath? Gingavitis? Cols Sores?
4) She might have a jealous Boyfriend, or Ex
5) Joe cant possibly factor all of this into a 10 second club encouter.
6) Thas how ppl get shot in tha club…..come on JJ….I’m sure ray has had to report to more than a few club brawls over something stupid lol.
7) Nope….im through with that mess…I’ll still take the five stacks though. I know JJ’s not gonna miss it.
O'Brien
August 31st, 2009
5:29 pm
In the Boston playoff series, he made a comment about how “if he gets an extension blah blah blah”. And to me, that was bad timing.
Against Miami in the playoffs, he talked about how Miami has all these playoff veterans, so people need to realize how good they are blah blah blah. (Last I checked, Miami has a rookie head coach, a rookie PG, another rookie off the bench, and old/oft injured JO, and a banged up DWade).
This is the same guy who threw Acie under the bus (and he did not need to) after he was traded.
To me, Woody just talks too much sometimes. He needs to shut up and coach. If the Hawks do well, then he will get his extension (whether we like it or not).
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:32 pm
* 4) Jealous ex at the club
Joe should donate that money for something useful….
Specefically, my college fund. All the proceeds/donations go to a great cause, paying my school fees. He’ll really feel like a winner after that.
Sigh, gotta love making the world a better place….
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:35 pm
Prediction: If we only have 13 players on our roster, that means Sund is going to pick up a 3rd PG twoards the end of the season after Jeff Teague establishes himself.
It could be Flip or Bobby Jackson. If they don’t go overseas then you can pretty much assume tha they’ve worked out a little agreement with one of the 30 GM’s around the leauge(Rick Sund) to join the club at a later date….
cp
August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm
Well give me Hunter. I think the Collins signing actually hurt Siler’s chances. I see no need for Mario. Would be nice to add a 3rd pg but who? Cant wait to get the season started.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm
8 )
*)
mountain_jim
August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm
Good point O’Brien Woody did needlessly throw Acie under the bus after he was traded, perhaps showing a bit of a thin-skin towards his detractors.
I wish Woody would/could have more cred with the refs – they always seem to job the Hawks and he just glares.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:37 pm
Hmmm…so thats what happend lol…
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:38 pm
Woodson’s thrown so many people under the bus he should be up for homicide charges by now….
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:51 pm
Wow, After reading more tweets, it’s been confirmed that someone(one of his boys) took him up on his offer.
Joe: “And tha winner is Brandon Dean lol”.
“she was a big gurl to lol”
Sometimes rich ppl have no class
making the leff fortunate do stunts for money hehehe… Getting shot in a nightclub in Chicago is gona cost way more than 5 stacks in the long run. If his friend had tried that on the finest girl there he woulda been stabbed hehehe…
Hmmm, should I be an ambulance chaser? Nire, whdda ya think? There plenty of ignorace to go around. My workload would never dry up! Even in this recession.
KevinA
August 31st, 2009
5:56 pm
Woody and JJ both showed lack of leadership skills. Is JJ showing our kids respect for women? Is this the kind of man you would want your daughter dating? These are acts of a selfish man acting like an 18 year old kid. What a waste, what a shame. Some people may be able to handle that kind of lets go party mind set. A guy like Beasly couldn’t it. What kind of team leader is JJ?
The one thing I liked about Woody was his old school approach to coaching. Talking about his contract in the press takes away from one of his strengths. Woody should know if the Hawks play well he gets an extension. If they have problems, “there is the world of gray” so many things to be considered on wether he should be rehired. He just added to the negative side in the “world of gray”. A self inflicted wound.
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
5:58 pm
Joe’s bringing our season ticket money right back where it belongs:
Joe’s Twitter Feed: “On my way back to tha ATL had a great time in the CHI”
Besides, We don’t have time to pay his hospital insurace or court fees when his boys get stomped for kissing the wong girl hehehehe….it’s too close to the season for that mess
In other news, Sekou has bee keeping juicy information from us!!!!
Sekou’s Twitter Feed:
“How’s this for crazy? AI’s working out at the Hawks’ facility every day. And before you ask, NO, the Hawks are NOT pursuing him.”
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
6:06 pm
Who has a realistic shot at making it back to the NBA this season?
A) Steve Francis
B) Allen Iverson
C) Stephon Marbury
D) Carlos Arroyo
E) Bonzi Wells
F) Antione Walker
CAST YOUR VOTES NOW!!!
Wait…WTF is Iverson doing in the ATL? House shopping? Does he have relatives here? NBA Friends?
SEKOU!!! I WANT AN EXCLUSIVE AI INTERVIEW!!!!! EARN THAT BACON SIR!!!
KevinA
August 31st, 2009
6:20 pm
Courtney Sims is a blip on the radar screen. Could he be the 5th big?
KevinA
August 31st, 2009
6:32 pm
“http://www.hoopinionblog.com/?gcid=C12289×022>kw=Atlanta:+Hoopinion
Courtney Sims, the 6′11″ center from Michigan, has been named the D-League’s MVP this season. Prior to his call-up to the Knicks on March 23, Sims was leading the Energy with 22.8 points per game, while shooting 61 percent (277-of-458) from the field to go along with averages of 11 rebounds and two blocks per game.
Courtney is a very talented scorer at 6-11… he has tremendous touch and skill with his shooting and moves around the post… continues to develop new ways to score… has a good right hand jump hook, but his turn around is coming and his face up shooting, even out to three, will be very good eventually… if he continues to improve in the next 12 months as much as he did in the last 12, he should be playing in the NBA… has work to do with his running and strength, both of which are better than they look (and better than average), but he needs to get better in these areas.”
Sims best game this season was an amazing 22 point, 17 rebound and 11 block effort his second game of the season, but didn’t get his first call-up until January 20th.
doc
August 31st, 2009
6:35 pm
somebody better get the pipe back from ariose quickly. dont know if he can make it through the night the rate he is going.
O'Brien
August 31st, 2009
6:37 pm
Sekou,
Can we confirm that its really JJ posting those comments?
If it is, I am disappointed in JJ. Based on his comments, are those what you want to read from your captain? Your best player and supposedly your leader, talking about paying somebody 5 stacks to kiss a strange (big) girl? That sounds very immature and childish.
Doing it is one thing, but I dont think he should be posting it on twitter. Arent there little kids who look up to him? Does somebody go to school tomorrow and pay their friend $5 to kiss some strange girl in school? (Or maybe I’m reading too much into it…).
peachtree hoops
August 31st, 2009
6:43 pm
that is definitely joe from that account. he switched the user name yesterday or today, but from that account, i watched part of his ustream. and it was weird. i felt like a stalker and had to stop.
peachtree hoops
August 31st, 2009
6:45 pm
and the 501 is Little Rocks’ area code…..maybe i am a stalker.
vava74
August 31st, 2009
6:46 pm
I’ve mentioned in the past that I have a high degree of respect for Charley Rosen’s columns @ msn.foxsports.com.
Check this out: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9990100/Greatness-doesn‘t-carry-over-from-court-to-bench
For the ones who are too lethargic to punch in the link, here is a small extract:
Role players who became fair-to-middling coaches:
…
Mike Woodson: He has done a terrific job with a severely flawed ball club.
MannyT
August 31st, 2009
7:03 pm
@doc–I think Ariose was playing 100 bottles of Crunkl on the wall, 100 bottles of Crunk, throw one down and posts abound, 99 bottles of Crunk on the wall…you get the idea.
@peachtree hoops–I thought you were allowed to be a stalker if you are in the media. Just remember, if you take pictures you turn from media to a part of the paparazzi
@vava74–link is incomplete, but I got over there and checked it out. Lot’s of space above fair to middling in Rosen’s list. That’s why Woody has to prove himself every year. But if the club is severely flawed and he still gets a low rating, that says he isn’t really doing the job. The million dollar question–can they ASG get someone to do the job better at a price they are willing to pay. I’m not sure the answer is yes.
BWAF
vava74
August 31st, 2009
7:14 pm
MannyT,
How do you interpret “terrific job”? Obviously this is an assessment based on a very short head coaching experience, however, it is no doubtfully very positive.
People around here say that he is horrible, a disaster, has no offensive game and even bring up all the nonsense and sh*t kenny and barkley were saying on the TNT telecasts, when they were completely neglecting to comment on the fact that we had Marvin out, JJ had a bad ankle since mid season, Al got severely injured and then JJ re-injured his ankle again AND we were being completely creamed by the referees with Wade and Lebron getting all the calls.
We would have swept or won 4-1 the Miami series if it wasn’t for the refs and if we had a full roster and impartial refs I think we would have won at least 2 games against Cleveland (in the regular season we won 1 and got robbed of a second victory with a bogus call going against us).
Blast
August 31st, 2009
7:30 pm
Ariose is back, and crazier!
Before we all knock down JJ and throw him under the bus, are we 100% sure those were his tweets?
Astro Joe
August 31st, 2009
7:38 pm
Wow, what I found most interesting about the Rosen article is his grouping of coaches. He has Woody, Sam Mitchell, Don Nelson, Don Chaney, George Karl and Scott Skiles (amongst others) in the same category. I’m fairly certain that Nellie and Karl both reject that categorization. And I find it shocking that he has placed Nate McMillan in the same category with Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan. WOW!
KevinA
August 31st, 2009
7:55 pm
This is a nice list of a coaches mandate. I added my own scores.
Woody has taught subtle, detailed aspects of the game. C+
Woody understood the necessities of discipline, preparation, teamwork and unselfishness. B+
Woody knows that since they could rarely overpower a game, they learned how (and why) to let the game come to them. B-
Woody gets the players to hard and never took shortcuts. B+
Woody gets his players to develop their off-the-ball game. D+
Woody values the contributions of role players. B-
Their psyches weren’t overwhelmed or unduly influenced by the star syndrome. B
Being good enough to simply out-talent so many of their contemporaries while their knowledge of the game was relatively shallow. D
Woody expected the players to be able to do the things they were able to do. B-
Woody expected the players to completely follow his orders. C
Woody expects players had to come to him and not the other way around. C+
Woody has humility and admits mistakes. C-
Hoops
August 31st, 2009
7:55 pm
Give it a rest guys! Coach Woodson opened his mouth when he should not have. We have all done that at times in our life. He is our coach right now. I hope the Hawks are great this season and he earns his extension!
Samuel
August 31st, 2009
8:25 pm
First of All,
I could care less what JJ tweets. It don’t surprise me at all. I always trip when people bring up teams with “so-called” character guys and call others “thugs” and come with baggage. Please, most of these guys are all the same. Rich and arrogant. I have much better things to do than be somebody’s groupie on twitter.
On Woody,
That’s what I really dig about this guy. Straight up and not scared to speak his mind.
Woody=COY
doc
August 31st, 2009
8:37 pm
i guess the season has started.
vava74
August 31st, 2009
8:51 pm
KevinA,
Looking at your post, I think Woody gets a B- overall, maybe a high C+ with good possibility of jumping into a solid B or B+ category if he fares well this season.
Looking at the “active” coaches list, my take would be:
Pop, Phil, Riley and Sloan A+
McMillan, Adelman A
Larry Brown, A-
Saunders, A. Johnson, Carlisle, Scott, Rivers B+
Frank, M. Brown B
Woody, Mitchell, Skiles, SVG, Karl, del Negro, Birkerstaff, Gentry B-
JVG, E. Jordan, Spoelstra C+
Dunleavy, Nelson, Iavaroni, Curry, Cheeks, Hill, McHale C-
Theus, Stotts, Isiah T., D
vava74
August 31st, 2009
8:51 pm
I think Woody is, right now, a middle of the pack, solid B-
Ariose
August 31st, 2009
9:34 pm
Samuel, You’d reather be Woodsons Groupie right
FELLOW BLOGGERS!!! I assure you, i’m fine hehehehe. I had a little more vitamian C than normal this morning but i’m good!!!……did somebody say Crunk Juice
BosnianBaller
August 31st, 2009
9:42 pm
Are you sure it’s Joe Johnson? Anybody can put up Joe Johnson Arkansas.I’m pretty sure it’s not him