Look who's talking (on Twitter and elsewhere) ...

Liberals Suck

August 31st, 2009
12:34 am

Joe talks about tongueing random chicks at the club for $5,000….it’s a good read

red

August 31st, 2009
12:35 am

1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

Gilley

August 31st, 2009
12:39 am

I thought Joe Johnson’s page got hacked how he was talking…lol

But if it wasn’t I hope he shows his personality on the court more, have some fun, and speak up. It will help him get more calls, and help his teammates feed off of his energy. If we get Jason Collins I will be happy but he will be another big to eliminate the chances of Randolph Morris and possibly Garret Siler from developing because we all know Woody wont play them

This NBA season needs to hurry up. I can’t wait!!!

chemdawg

August 31st, 2009
12:39 am

Flip took over more than 1 or 2 regular season games last year. Maybe he’ll take the minimum?

Gilley

August 31st, 2009
12:49 am

I thought Joe Johnson deleted his page but he changed the name and deleted his crazy tweets about kissing random chicks for $5k LOL!!!!

http://twitter.com/JoeJohnson501

KEn

August 31st, 2009
1:19 am

Gilley….he didnt delete those tweets, they still there my dude

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
2:22 am

I know Joe was closet motormouth from last season when they had that team special on SportsSouth lol. Still, He should leave the profanity to us bloggers, since we don’t have to worry about our images too much on here(…basically, no one cares about us hehehe!!!) He should call JR smith and ask him how the local Denver Media torched him to the point where he shout his Twitter page down….although, we don’t have rutheless media like that around here heh……just as bored though hehehe…

Ray, Spot on assesment about Bibby on the last blog. Your “Substantial Shadow” analogy reminds me a lot of my “Shadow Defense” wich is what I’ve dubbed my defensive “prowess” at the end of a long day of pick up games in the gym hehehe….We need Bibby though, no doubt about it; and saying the man was robbed is an understatement. “Kicked under the Bus” is more accurate if you ake me. 21ppg in 06? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! Sombody shoulda been slapped for not putting him on the team.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
2:37 am

Woodson needs to stop Crying. IT’s his fault that his team is developing faster than he is….PERIOD. Harsh, I know; but it’s so true. He’s had a better squad each and EVERY year. And every year his player rotations have gotten worse and Worse. At MOST he deserves a little mid season bonus for coming up with a solid defensive “scheme” last season, but thats about it. He still doesn’t make good in-game adjustments, and the only reason were not calling for his head is because our General Managers are getting him better players which, makes him look like a better coach.

Make no mistake about it though. Better coaches have done a lot more with FAR LESS talent(Larry Brown last season almost had the cats in the playoffs).

Like I said, out team is out growing him. Were getting organically better AND adding better talent, but woodson’s coaching hasn’t changed. This is what I personally wanted to see though. I wanted Rick Sund to give Woodson a LOADED roster to see what he was really made of. We’ll this season. seems like the right time to find out, we’ve got a nice roster shaping out.

Siler will make the squad over ‘Rio and Hunter(IDK what y’all see in this guy….oh well) and we still need a long 3rd string SF in case of injuries to Marvin and/or Mo (Rodney Carney, Gerald Green, Korolev etc.)

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
3:07 am

Truth, Boby is a beast but i’m pretty sure he’s about to turn 40 lol….seriously.

MannyT

August 31st, 2009
6:04 am

Sekou, in yur case I guess it is welcome back from fakation (fake vacation)

If they numbered posts, what would all those FIRST people have to blog about?

I’d still root for Mario to make this team…even if he is still in search of a jump shot. That energy level is hard to find. It gets the crowd and his team energized for that 4.3 seconds at the end of the quarter.

Maybe one of JJ’s crew got ahold of his Twitter account.

Rolling backwards @Ray. It’s all about the wins and expectations. If you win more than expected, you are seen as a good coach. I think Woody gets the good coach award for last season and the playoffs against Boston 2 seasons ago. Other than that, he really did not win more than expected. All that said, he has been better more recently, so that counts heavily in his favor. That’s why I said last blog that you consider him for an extension, but the economy works against him.

I would not say that there is a large demand for Woody, but I don’t want to replace him with Dick Vitale either.

@Samuel, note that is good coach, not coach of the year.

I like bringing in another experienced big. Imagine practice when the old guys team up in a situation where there are no refs. It will probably give the young guys fits at first. Kinda like when Danny Ferry was at Duke. He had a knack for knowing when he could get away with a little more holding and pushing than the next guy.

BWAF

Conservatives Don't Conserve They Kill

August 31st, 2009
6:37 am

JJ needs to re-up. Woodson’s final stand.
It’s all about this year!

honest_abe

August 31st, 2009
6:57 am

here’s what i find so funny. sund hasn’t done anything spectacular. in fact i’d say he’s done pretty much the same thing as bk. yet he’s being hailed as brilliant while bk was called a buffoon.

lets see sund kept together a core that bk put together. he added some pieces last year but it wasn’t like he added a big man, pg or coach which most hawks fans felt were the most glaring weaknesses. no instead he added an undersized sg and yet another swingman. i’m not sayin adding mo and flip were bad moves, they were great signings but the team didnt’ win soley because of those two guys. since then sund has managed to resign everyone and add jamal crawford through a trade. now everyone wants to annoint him as some kind of great gm. give me a break. with a broke ass ownership group, the hawk’s gm’s have had their hands tied. rebuild while spending as little as possible. gm’s have changed but the philosophy has not. the coaching staff has remained for the same reason. it’s the cheapest coaching staff available that they know they can with with to a certain extent.

jj, josh smith, bibby, horford, marv and zaza were all bk’s guys. kudo’s to sund for keepin it together but i think someone deserves a lil more credit.

smartguy

August 31st, 2009
7:38 am

Woody is still the WORST. Imagine how good the Hawks would be with a real coach….

Will he or won’t he… We all know that JJ will NOT be an Atlanta Hawk next year.

doc

August 31st, 2009
7:39 am

is joe talking any basketball on his twitter? what has he been doing to shape his game on the off season or is he too good for that? seems he has been working on a different game this summer from what was posted here. i remember a guy who fell flat for about 25 games last season and couldnt put a block or a steal on the books for weeks at a time.

The Truth

August 31st, 2009
7:54 am

Ariose

Actually Bobby Jackson is 36, but who’s counting. He’s in a class of other pass-prime active players: Grant Hill 36, Jason Kid 36, Theo Ratiff 36 and Linsey Hunter 37. This guy can still ball and he won’t whine about minutes at his age. Woody would be pleased to have a vet deep in his bench.

Melvin

August 31st, 2009
8:04 am

Our favorite 6th man didn’t make the list…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13696

doc

August 31st, 2009
8:46 am

guess the reason lorens didnt make the top “journeyman” list is in the definition starting with this criteria ….. We can all probably agree a journeyman has to not only play for many teams (many being another subjective term), but also has to contribute to those teams. Guys sitting on the end of a bench for five different teams don’t exactly qualify.

maybe i missed this criteria in the article but standing in front of the popcorn popper doesnt qualify either does it melvin?

doc

August 31st, 2009
9:08 am

as far as woody this was posted on schultz’ blog on the same subject earlier today:

not surprised at all. didnt he essentially do the same thing during the playoffs with boston? after a losing season and several blowout losses in boston didnt he bring up the idea that since they had pushed the c’s into a deciding game he deserved more time as a head coach after delivering 37 wins and got there because of a point guard named bibby?

this also may turn out to be the theme of the season as well. it could backfire on woody as he might not pull out of the station according to expectations and be out on the street waiting for another chance to build a team where he is given/has less including ownership patience to turn it around. the owners like he has kept his mouth shut and have that as one of the primary reasons he is still around. guess woody didnt get the message.

a footnote here is i want the team to succeed so i wish woody well this season just dont know if this is the way to start it. will the team rally around him? is this his ploy? if karl doesnt have a contract then why should woody? maybe they are negotiating but geez that guy really cached last year through injuries, controversy and with a team no one would have thought could get that many wins.

ILL-logical

August 31st, 2009
9:16 am

Mr.Sund has done exactly what he was supposed to do:his job. But he did it in such a quiet and efficent manner I believe he desrves the accolades that are coming his way.
In contrast, the Falcons ,who have arguably a better front office and more solid ownership, short changed their roster on the defensive side of the ball and are now stuck with some undersized, and overwhelmed defensive backs after allowing their only 6′ +cornerback to leave. And they lost some key vocal leaders as well. Now they have to hope that they can outscore their opponents for more than 8 games in order to break their curse of not ever having had 2 consecutive winning seasons.

Whereas the Hawks are now working on their second consecutive winning season and third consecutive playoff appearance.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2009
9:55 am

Sekou,

I think the Hawks should pick up a 3rd PG (preferably a pass-first PG) for insurance.

For the Woody debate, all he has to do is win this year, and his contract will take care of itself. If the Hawks win 50 games, and play a very competitive 2nd round playoff series, then Woody will have earned his extension.

However, I wish he would get a different big man coach (because I dont think Ty Hill has done much for Horford and Josh), and let Larry Drew coach the offense.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
10:03 am

Truth, I agree. Bobby is/always has been a stud. I saw his first NBA game on NBA TV the other night, dude came into the leauge with some serious game. 27pts on opening night. He’s always been one of my favorite guards, especially back when Sactown was a perennial powerhouse. I’d love to see him as a 3rd PG on our roster.

Beck

August 31st, 2009
10:04 am

Good offseason so far. Kudos to Sund. While I have long been in the camp thinking Woody and staff has done a pretty good job – he can really prove himself this season. If we don’t extend him/staff and they have a great year (Strong 2nd round at least) we’re going to have to resign them to a pretty juicy deal.

I’m now wondering what we might do if we get to the trade deadline and are just that one player away from a big time run. Are we committed to this squad (which I like) or will Sund be willing to make a dramatic move. Pure conjecture at this point but the mind wonders in the summer basketball doldrums.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
10:06 am

Ken, in your 10:11 post from last night, were you suggesting that a GM’s roster moves can greatly impact a head coach’s ability to be successful? If that was your point, my answeris… DUH, of course. Phil Jackson didn’t become a better coach after Kupchak acquired (I mean stole) Gasol from Memphis. He didn’t invent a new offensive scheme, he just inserted a very, very good big man into his starting line-up.

jerrywest

August 31st, 2009
10:17 am

There is a poll among die hard Hawks bloggers down in Hawk squawk on Woody’s contract extension status.

2 out of 44 Hawks fanatics want Woody’s extension this off-season. 14 wants him fired immediately. 28 wants to make a decision next summer.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/339141-woodson-wants-contract-extension/

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
10:50 am

I have to be honest. I am really suprised at Joe Johnson’s Twitter page. That does not seem like anything that he would normally write or say. Not, that I know him personally or anything.
I still a huge Joe Johnson fan, but I would just say that for me his tweets don’t represent the kind of guy I thought Joe is.
I know when hangin’ with your boys guys talk differently, which is all well in good, when it is just between the boys, but he is putting this out there for EVERYONE.
He seemed to be self aware for that.
Just one fan who is a little disappointed.

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
10:50 am

I meant too self aware

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
10:51 am

From Schutz’s Blog

jhay610

August 31st, 2009
10:40 am

To be fair, Woody coached some absolutely horrible teams that were not fit for an NBA schedule in accumulating that eyesore of a record.

He has done just enough to keep his job each year, never exceeding expectations but always just meeting that minimum threshold to keep hanging around.

If I wasn’t a Hawks fan by birth I couldn’t stand watching this team, despite its stock of exciting young players, because of how poorly coached they are on offense. No wonder Charles and Kenny gave us the business at every opportunity in front of that national television audience. It is appalling to watch top level professional players stand around dribbling the basketball until the end of the shot clock and then attempt to go one on five. We have no sets and hardly any plays – how many times have you seen the team come out of a timeout and get an easy bucket off of something that was drawn up in the huddle? Does that ever happen?

I also think Woody is quite possibly the worst game manager in the NBA. Though he has improved marginally in this regard, his use of timeouts always baffles me.

His constant whining and image positioning in the media always rubs me the wrong way – in the series with Miami when the Hawks went down 2-1, the Woodster went into spin mode, talking about how the Heat were such a great team with all these playoff veterans and how his Hawks were still learning. Nevermind that the Heat won, what, 15 games or so the year before while your team pushed the world champs to the brink?

I don’t think this guy could ever win a championship – he will always be exposed against the better coaching staffs in the league, and therefore would require a significant edge in talent. There is not a wide enough talent gap in the NBA to cover that weakness.

He’ll probably win another 1st round series and a couple games in the 2nd round and hang around for another one or two year extension; then we can hear him whine some more about not getting his long-term deal.

Ooh!! Yup Yup!!

The Truth

August 31st, 2009
10:52 am

Sekou

Assuming we had 15 players on the roster including guys like Hunter and Siler. If we needed to free-up a roster spot for a new player, could we just move a player to the D-league, would that be allowed?

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
10:54 am

Daniel, I agree. Bad PR move for Joe. I may send him a PM and remind him that the world(media) is looking at the twit feeds at all times…

jerrywest

August 31st, 2009
11:08 am

Ariose post at 10:51 am. – from jhay’s post.

Couldn’t have said it better. Brilliant.

Repeat :

From Schutz’s Blog

jhay610

August 31st, 2009
10:40 am

To be fair, Woody coached some absolutely horrible teams that were not fit for an NBA schedule in accumulating that eyesore of a record.

He has done just enough to keep his job each year, never exceeding expectations but always just meeting that minimum threshold to keep hanging around.

If I wasn’t a Hawks fan by birth I couldn’t stand watching this team, despite its stock of exciting young players, because of how poorly coached they are on offense. No wonder Charles and Kenny gave us the business at every opportunity in front of that national television audience. It is appalling to watch top level professional players stand around dribbling the basketball until the end of the shot clock and then attempt to go one on five. We have no sets and hardly any plays – how many times have you seen the team come out of a timeout and get an easy bucket off of something that was drawn up in the huddle? Does that ever happen?

I also think Woody is quite possibly the worst game manager in the NBA. Though he has improved marginally in this regard, his use of timeouts always baffles me.

His constant whining and image positioning in the media always rubs me the wrong way – in the series with Miami when the Hawks went down 2-1, the Woodster went into spin mode, talking about how the Heat were such a great team with all these playoff veterans and how his Hawks were still learning. Nevermind that the Heat won, what, 15 games or so the year before while your team pushed the world champs to the brink?

I don’t think this guy could ever win a championship – he will always be exposed against the better coaching staffs in the league, and therefore would require a significant edge in talent. There is not a wide enough talent gap in the NBA to cover that weakness.

He’ll probably win another 1st round series and a couple games in the 2nd round and hang around for another one or two year extension; then we can hear him whine some more about not getting his long-term deal.

Ooh!! Yup Yup!!

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
11:16 am

Ariose- Do you think it sounds like Joe?
In terms of Woodson, I tend to be among the supporters. And, anything that Schultz writes about basketball needs to be taken with the grain of salt. Remember he also thinks it is a bad idea to give Joe an extension. I think the situation is fine just the way it is. Woodson coaches this season with a better more veteran team that he has had a chance to develop. If he makes improvements then great, if not then… well…. bye bye.
I am willing to support him this season though. I think he can take us to the next level. I could be wrong, but the team only has a one year commitment to risk.

Mike is back

August 31st, 2009
11:28 am

What ‘s up Doc, things ain’t been the same since I drop my sweet pea off to WF…thanks to Sund for keeping a little sunshine in my day. I said it before and I said it again…GREAT JOB SUND…I’M FIRED UP ABOUT THE HAWKS!!!!

I’m WITH you on JJ…unless its something he can translate or duplicate in his game that improves his stewardship of the team…I’ll take pass on the rated X stuff. However, if it give JJ some much needed swagger and attitude…then I’m all for it…but tread likely JJ save it for the hardwood…don’t get to looooooooooooose…loosy…goose. LOL

Sekou, I’m some what at a cross road at this point with Woody…I never been a big fan…but I would like to see him succeed …he may have reach his threshold with this team. During the playoff, I actually saw him encouraging the team to play up-tempo ball…though it was mainly out of desperation…he still did it.

If he would commit to a more up-tempo style of play that takes advantage of the young racehorses on his team…then I think he would be viewed in a different light…Sund also drafted an up-tempo guard in the draft that he endorse…I think he is smart enough to realize the time is now. Let’s hope he finally gets it. He want have to look far if things doesn’t work out.

Chris

August 31st, 2009
11:48 am

Othello Hunter please..hardworking energy off the bench..

A Tribe Called Quest

August 31st, 2009
11:56 am

So glad to know that our 5th year All-Star is deciding to be vocal!

Yay!

HawksV

August 31st, 2009
12:01 pm

SEKOU…could you please give me an update on how our players have developed this summer. Has Horford got better, will Bibby come into camp in shape? How has JJ and Marvin expanded their like previous summers? These are all opportunities for you to minimize the summer basketball doldrums!

Nay511

August 31st, 2009
12:03 pm

The Hawks have made some nice moves this year but rookie PG Jeff Teague backing up Bibby is questionable. Teague is not ready yet. Bibby needs a defensive specialist, a la Bobby Jackson, to back him up like when he was in Sacramento. I think that if the Hawks dont resign Flip, they should try to sign free agent PG CJ Watson.

I think Woodson should move Joe Johnson to SF and put Crawford in the starting lineup in the backcourt with Bibby. Marvin should come off the bench at SF, Evans SG, but the Hawks need a backup PG with NBA experience if they want to compete in the East.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2009
12:13 pm

Sekou,

I know this is a basketball blog, but what’s going on with your Wolverines? Is Coach Rodriguez working them too hard? This might be another long year for Michigan…

As for the Jeff Schultz article, I dont think Woodson should be whining. This is the best team he has had since he’s been here. All Woodson has to do is say, hopefully, we will have a good season this year, and then the owners can evaluate the performance at the end of the year.

Woody, let your coaching do the talking. Woody has a chance to get a better deal this year than he would have gotten last year. Last year, we won 47 games, and went 4-7 in the playoffs. Just win 50 games, and then win 6 or 7 playoff games, and you will get your extension.

Hoops

August 31st, 2009
12:18 pm

If the Hawks sign Collins, that’s 12 players under contract. If they only sign 13, which is what Sekou seems to be hinting, then who do they need? West, Hunter, Siler, Sims, Robinson?

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
12:21 pm

Hoops, my early vote is for Hunter or Korolev, but the 3rd string pg is still up in the air. (t. lue?)

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
12:22 pm

The tweets make sense. JJ is probably a fun loving inmature good basketball. Bibby is a little more mature (since his marriage) but fun loving. Josh wants to fit in but neds to be treated like an equal. Marvin just shakes his head, works hard and reads a book. ZaZa and Al are the more serious type and treat the game as a business. Woody probably lets the team get away with alot of (stuff) off the court and barks on the court. Flip prob had to much of a gangster attitude to fit in. As they mature they should get better. Is this why JJ gets tired?

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
12:41 pm

Interesting perspective on Jamal Crawford.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/8/31/1008709/jamal-crawford-half-week-final

We need a “new Hawk you’re most looking forward to watching” poll. I’m guessing that Crawford will win but personally, I’m anxious to see Teague.

Hawksgirl

August 31st, 2009
1:06 pm

Dang jj. Let it all hangout huh? lol. But he needs to tone it down just a bit. Being vocal doesnt mean you have to be obnoxious and very xxx. Tread carefully jj and you are still my all time favorite player.

Woody needs to be patient or he will end up like the old falcons coach and get fired for mouthing off to the media. Be very carful woody.

HawksV

August 31st, 2009
1:08 pm

Appreciated Sekou…it will be nice to hear how the guys look and how they have improved or declined…I think one thing that we are overlooking with the added depth to the roster this summer is guys are going to compete at every position. Hopefully that forces all the hawks to grow and improve both mentally and physically.

doc

August 31st, 2009
1:08 pm

mike agree on many points, i dont even want to dictate the style as long as it isnt that crappy offense of pound the ball then run straight into five guys and somehow not be able to draw a foul. i just want to win. i can enjoy good defense as much as offense and did last year. however it takes game management of personnel and timeouts and a consistent offense when the pressure is on to score a basket or two through more than one guy. if woody can do that then we have a 55 game winner on our hands that could slip up on a team ahead of us with injury probs or old broken down bodies. any of the big three could go down if we stay healthy, play to what we have and they have their issues.

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
1:30 pm

so doc, are you looking for 55 wins, 3rd or 4th seed with a strong playoff showing? Do we need to make the conference finals?
I am not picking. I seriously don’t know what a “sucessful” season for this team will be this year.

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
1:34 pm

Good link on Crawford Astro Joe.
I remain hopeful that his role on this team as a scoring 6th man fits him the best and limits his defensive liabilities.
I am rooting for him, for obvious reasons.
I like the Teague pick, but he is not ready to make a significant impact in the league just yet.
Next year is when we should start expecting some things from him.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
1:59 pm

Daniel-It’s him. It’s been confirmed months ago. It may indeed have been a friend writing but it’s probably JJ. Sounds just like him. Still, he probably wouldnt want mama Johnson reading that

He should know better. It’s barely OK for leauge scrubs to be soo “homeboish” with the lingo on twitter without geting slammed by their local media, let alone a player on the verge of being a “superstar”…maybe lol.

He’s just lucky that he Tweets so infrequently that no one probably even realizes he’s back on there yet lol….I didn’t hehehe…Then again I havent been on Twitter in a while.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
2:10 pm

AJ, Nice piece sir. I’m still nervous about Crawford, but optimistic. He said he won’t let us down so….

Looks like Miami isn’t going to add another PG via Free Agency…..Flip to Memphis? Thats kinda scary; Flip, Orange.Juice Mayonaise, and Rudy Gay? Not to mention Thabeet and Marc Gasol……decent little roster right there.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
2:18 pm

I assume the complaints about the offense stem from the playoffs, considering that the Hawks finished in the top 10 in offensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) during last year’s regular season. Not to mention that we had 6 players averaging double-figure points despite the belief that we run one play for one player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2009.html

Melvin

August 31st, 2009
2:19 pm

Ariose, not enough balls in Memphis offense for that many chunkers. Gay has already complain about his touches during last season (or since the arrival of OJ)….

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
2:35 pm

Melvin, you may be right(I forgot about Randolph…..ugh) But it’s clear that conely can’t handle the Job (Jsckson, Flip, Tinsley and Iverson) awre the best names still floating around….Then theres Marbury and Steve Francis…..no.

Luther Head or John Lucas III may work for them.

whocares

August 31st, 2009
2:41 pm

YALL WORRIED ABOUT THE WRONG THING, AT THE END OF THE DAY HE’S A GROWN A** WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HE TWEETS, STOP BEING SO DAMN NOISEY, WHAT YALL NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IF HE’S LEAVING OR STAYING, I TELL YOU THIS IF HE LEAVES ATLANTA HAWKS WILL NOT BE THE SAME, CAUSE OF HIM, THATS WHY YALL MADE THE PLAYOFFS, IF IT WASNT FOR HIM, THERE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN A 7 GAME SERIES AGAINST BOSTON, AND MIAMI,
IF IT WASNT FOR HIM KILLIN WADE, SHOOTING FROM THE HAWK WING, THERE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN A SECOND ROUND, COME ON GUYS YALL KILLING ME WITH THIS B.S. AND YALL SAYING HE’S NOT LIKE LEBRON OR KOBE, WELL THEM TWO GOT HELP, HAWKS HAVE ZERO HELP, EVERY NITE HES DOUBLE, OR TRIPPLED, WHO DO YALL THINK HE IS SUPERMAN, THEN WHEN HE KICKS IT OUT, NOBODY CAN’T SCORE, WHEN KOBE OR LEBRON KICKS IT OUT THEY HAVE SOMEONE THAT CAN SCORE, SO DONT BLAME JOE FOR THE THE B.S. HE’S THE LEADER, THEY NEED TO FIND PLAYERS THAT ARE WILLING TO STEP UP, THATS JUST LIFE, U CANT WIN THEM ALL BY YOURSELF, IT TAKES A TEAM AND IF THE TEAMS NOT READY, WELL WHO CAN U COUNT ON, BUT EVERYTHINGS GOES BACK TO JOE OR WOODSON, MAN PLEASE KILL IT!!!! YALL SOME DUMMYS!!!

Blast

August 31st, 2009
2:46 pm

JJ twitting, Mike Woodson whinning, Hawks fans dreaming…

Woody needs to shut up and just coach. Period. Moaning in the press about not being extended does not make him look good. He will get his extension if his team performs well next season. Bottom line. Stop whinning, coach and just COACH!

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
3:36 pm

OMG LMFAO!!!!!

Twitt Convo between Joe & a Fan

@littlerock02 why are you going to chi town big boi

Joe: Makin moves

@littlerock02 you have a big commitment to the hawks and all of the fans…please dont do something stupid to ruin what we have here

@iAMhawk2 i got u lil man

Hehehe!!! I think Joe Cool got the message.

Still….If Joe were your friend and he offered u Five stacks to French Kiss some random chick at the club would you do it? I didnt really think about it until just now…..I could sure use five stacks hehehe!!!

newkid

August 31st, 2009
3:45 pm

Not an apparent smart move (by Woody) to attempt subtle negotiations via the press. Seems he takes unwise advantage of selected interactions with media types to ‘needle’ Sund about not having received extensions for himself and his cadre (desired or not). Is he being encouraged (by his agent) to take this tact, or is he flying solo? The higher your profile, the more costly it is to fly solo and crash. Something to be said for scripts and teleprompters. Is it perhaps time to seek better counsel Mr. Michael Dean?

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
3:56 pm

Al Horford Talks a little Hawks and some Dominican National team Action:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-43-92/FIBA-Americas-Qualifier–Day-3.html

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
4:29 pm

Ariose, I thought Joe was LittleRock02 on Twitter. Now he is supposedly using his own name?

MannyT

August 31st, 2009
4:42 pm

Maybe it’s like Ariose talking to SalimFan…hmmm

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
4:43 pm

Manny, LOL. Or Sam to Rod.

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
4:52 pm

Man, the more twitter stuff from Joe the worse it sounds. Aren’t what he is saying more of a text message btwn boys? Not really twitter stuff. I really don’t get it. I also don’t see how any twitter stuff means that you would be more of a vocal leader.

Joe is a young, single and rich. Enjoy your life within the rules, but you don’t need to publish your stuff.

Dang.

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
4:52 pm

“isn’t”

Daniel

August 31st, 2009
4:55 pm

newkid- what does he have to lose? He is already on a one year contract and basically a full season of on the job evaluation. Complaining that he feels like he should be extended doesn’t change that dynamic. It gives some people with an axe to grind(Jeff Schultz) the opportunity to call you a whiner, but for Sund, ASG probably makes zero difference. Perhaps his staff feels a little better that the coach is going to bat for them.
I think it is mountain out of mole hill type stuff.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
4:59 pm

“Will the real Slim Shady please step up, please step up, please step up…”

So is Joe, I Am Hawk 2 (as in his jersey number), Little Rock 02 as in his jersey number and home town of Joe Johnson 501?

Big Ray

August 31st, 2009
5:00 pm

Astro Joe,

Interesting article on Jamal Crawford. Crawford detractors and closet Josh Smith haters would love that one.

Doc ,

I don’t know what’s going to happen with Woody, but I might be careful about what I said if I were him. I’m not saying he’s out of line, but coaches above all others have to be careful what they say (and how they say it) to the media about both players and GMs. I guess having his butt saved by the ASG when Billy was trying to can him has done something for his “confidence.” Well, the advantage there is that I think Billy f’ed up enough times to lose the edge as the boss. Sund, I believe, is in a different boat, and he is playing this better than Billy ever did. All the same, Woodson has but to win, and show that he can improve, along with an improved roster.

Someone else mentioned on another blog, I think, that the roster has improved every year, even if by just organic growth. Funny, that never gets mentioned as Woody gets the sole credit from some as the reason why.

doc

August 31st, 2009
5:22 pm

stro from the article it sounds like flip was jamal lite or jamal is flip on roids.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:26 pm

Oops, lol. It’s ben a while since i’ve posted a Twitter conversation on here. I for got to normalize it for the masses hehehe….

The Hawk Fan: why are you going to chi town big boi

Joe: Makin moves Note: he said other stuff….but…anyhoo

The aforementioned Hawk Fan: you have a big commitment to the hawks and all of the fans…please dont do something stupid to ruin what we have here

Joe Johnson: i got u lil man

See in tweet language, it only show who ur replying to and not who the poster it, so that’s probably what was confusing you….

More Joe:

“yo tweeple u mean to tell me ya’ll would’nt kiss a random person for 5 STACKS???”

…I might….

1) Does she know its about to happen

2) Does she have a handgun or Mase on her?

3) Does she brush her teeth. Does she have bad breath? Gingavitis? Cols Sores?

4) She might have a jealous Boyfriend, or Ex

5) Joe cant possibly factor all of this into a 10 second club encouter.

6) Thas how ppl get shot in tha club…..come on JJ….I’m sure ray has had to report to more than a few club brawls over something stupid lol.

7) Nope….im through with that mess…I’ll still take the five stacks though. I know JJ’s not gonna miss it.

He better not be walking around Chicago at night with five stacks on hand. That’s not making it rain dammit. Thats a freakin’ Monsoon!

O'Brien

August 31st, 2009
5:29 pm

In the Boston playoff series, he made a comment about how “if he gets an extension blah blah blah”. And to me, that was bad timing.

Against Miami in the playoffs, he talked about how Miami has all these playoff veterans, so people need to realize how good they are blah blah blah. (Last I checked, Miami has a rookie head coach, a rookie PG, another rookie off the bench, and old/oft injured JO, and a banged up DWade).

This is the same guy who threw Acie under the bus (and he did not need to) after he was traded.

To me, Woody just talks too much sometimes. He needs to shut up and coach. If the Hawks do well, then he will get his extension (whether we like it or not).

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:32 pm

* 4) Jealous ex at the club

Joe should donate that money for something useful….

Specefically, my college fund. All the proceeds/donations go to a great cause, paying my school fees. He’ll really feel like a winner after that.

Sigh, gotta love making the world a better place….

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:35 pm

Prediction: If we only have 13 players on our roster, that means Sund is going to pick up a 3rd PG twoards the end of the season after Jeff Teague establishes himself.

It could be Flip or Bobby Jackson. If they don’t go overseas then you can pretty much assume tha they’ve worked out a little agreement with one of the 30 GM’s around the leauge(Rick Sund) to join the club at a later date….

cp

August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm

Well give me Hunter. I think the Collins signing actually hurt Siler’s chances. I see no need for Mario. Would be nice to add a 3rd pg but who? Cant wait to get the season started.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm

8 )

*)

mountain_jim

August 31st, 2009
5:36 pm

Good point O’Brien Woody did needlessly throw Acie under the bus after he was traded, perhaps showing a bit of a thin-skin towards his detractors.

I wish Woody would/could have more cred with the refs – they always seem to job the Hawks and he just glares.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:37 pm

Hmmm…so thats what happend lol…

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:38 pm

Woodson’s thrown so many people under the bus he should be up for homicide charges by now….

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:51 pm

Wow, After reading more tweets, it’s been confirmed that someone(one of his boys) took him up on his offer.

Joe: “And tha winner is Brandon Dean lol”.

“she was a big gurl to lol”

Sometimes rich ppl have no class making the leff fortunate do stunts for money hehehe… Getting shot in a nightclub in Chicago is gona cost way more than 5 stacks in the long run. If his friend had tried that on the finest girl there he woulda been stabbed hehehe…

Hmmm, should I be an ambulance chaser? Nire, whdda ya think? There plenty of ignorace to go around. My workload would never dry up! Even in this recession.

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
5:56 pm

Woody and JJ both showed lack of leadership skills. Is JJ showing our kids respect for women? Is this the kind of man you would want your daughter dating? These are acts of a selfish man acting like an 18 year old kid. What a waste, what a shame. Some people may be able to handle that kind of lets go party mind set. A guy like Beasly couldn’t it. What kind of team leader is JJ?

The one thing I liked about Woody was his old school approach to coaching. Talking about his contract in the press takes away from one of his strengths. Woody should know if the Hawks play well he gets an extension. If they have problems, “there is the world of gray” so many things to be considered on wether he should be rehired. He just added to the negative side in the “world of gray”. A self inflicted wound.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
5:58 pm

Joe’s bringing our season ticket money right back where it belongs:

Joe’s Twitter Feed: “On my way back to tha ATL had a great time in the CHI”

Besides, We don’t have time to pay his hospital insurace or court fees when his boys get stomped for kissing the wong girl hehehehe….it’s too close to the season for that mess

In other news, Sekou has bee keeping juicy information from us!!!!

Sekou’s Twitter Feed:

“How’s this for crazy? AI’s working out at the Hawks’ facility every day. And before you ask, NO, the Hawks are NOT pursuing him.”

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
6:06 pm

Who has a realistic shot at making it back to the NBA this season?

A) Steve Francis

B) Allen Iverson

C) Stephon Marbury

D) Carlos Arroyo

E) Bonzi Wells

F) Antione Walker

CAST YOUR VOTES NOW!!!

Wait…WTF is Iverson doing in the ATL? House shopping? Does he have relatives here? NBA Friends?

SEKOU!!! I WANT AN EXCLUSIVE AI INTERVIEW!!!!! EARN THAT BACON SIR!!!

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
6:20 pm

Courtney Sims is a blip on the radar screen. Could he be the 5th big?

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
6:32 pm

“http://www.hoopinionblog.com/?gcid=C12289×022&gtkw=Atlanta:+Hoopinion

Courtney Sims, the 6′11″ center from Michigan, has been named the D-League’s MVP this season. Prior to his call-up to the Knicks on March 23, Sims was leading the Energy with 22.8 points per game, while shooting 61 percent (277-of-458) from the field to go along with averages of 11 rebounds and two blocks per game.
Courtney is a very talented scorer at 6-11… he has tremendous touch and skill with his shooting and moves around the post… continues to develop new ways to score… has a good right hand jump hook, but his turn around is coming and his face up shooting, even out to three, will be very good eventually… if he continues to improve in the next 12 months as much as he did in the last 12, he should be playing in the NBA… has work to do with his running and strength, both of which are better than they look (and better than average), but he needs to get better in these areas.”
Sims best game this season was an amazing 22 point, 17 rebound and 11 block effort his second game of the season, but didn’t get his first call-up until January 20th.

doc

August 31st, 2009
6:35 pm

somebody better get the pipe back from ariose quickly. dont know if he can make it through the night the rate he is going.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2009
6:37 pm

Sekou,

Can we confirm that its really JJ posting those comments?

If it is, I am disappointed in JJ. Based on his comments, are those what you want to read from your captain? Your best player and supposedly your leader, talking about paying somebody 5 stacks to kiss a strange (big) girl? That sounds very immature and childish.

Doing it is one thing, but I dont think he should be posting it on twitter. Arent there little kids who look up to him? Does somebody go to school tomorrow and pay their friend $5 to kiss some strange girl in school? (Or maybe I’m reading too much into it…).

peachtree hoops

August 31st, 2009
6:43 pm

that is definitely joe from that account. he switched the user name yesterday or today, but from that account, i watched part of his ustream. and it was weird. i felt like a stalker and had to stop.

peachtree hoops

August 31st, 2009
6:45 pm

and the 501 is Little Rocks’ area code…..maybe i am a stalker.

vava74

August 31st, 2009
6:46 pm

I’ve mentioned in the past that I have a high degree of respect for Charley Rosen’s columns @ msn.foxsports.com.

Check this out: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9990100/Greatness-doesn‘t-carry-over-from-court-to-bench

For the ones who are too lethargic to punch in the link, here is a small extract:

Role players who became fair-to-middling coaches:

…

Mike Woodson: He has done a terrific job with a severely flawed ball club.

MannyT

August 31st, 2009
7:03 pm

@doc–I think Ariose was playing 100 bottles of Crunkl on the wall, 100 bottles of Crunk, throw one down and posts abound, 99 bottles of Crunk on the wall…you get the idea.

@peachtree hoops–I thought you were allowed to be a stalker if you are in the media. Just remember, if you take pictures you turn from media to a part of the paparazzi

@vava74–link is incomplete, but I got over there and checked it out. Lot’s of space above fair to middling in Rosen’s list. That’s why Woody has to prove himself every year. But if the club is severely flawed and he still gets a low rating, that says he isn’t really doing the job. The million dollar question–can they ASG get someone to do the job better at a price they are willing to pay. I’m not sure the answer is yes.

BWAF

vava74

August 31st, 2009
7:14 pm

MannyT,

How do you interpret “terrific job”? Obviously this is an assessment based on a very short head coaching experience, however, it is no doubtfully very positive.

People around here say that he is horrible, a disaster, has no offensive game and even bring up all the nonsense and sh*t kenny and barkley were saying on the TNT telecasts, when they were completely neglecting to comment on the fact that we had Marvin out, JJ had a bad ankle since mid season, Al got severely injured and then JJ re-injured his ankle again AND we were being completely creamed by the referees with Wade and Lebron getting all the calls.

We would have swept or won 4-1 the Miami series if it wasn’t for the refs and if we had a full roster and impartial refs I think we would have won at least 2 games against Cleveland (in the regular season we won 1 and got robbed of a second victory with a bogus call going against us).

Blast

August 31st, 2009
7:30 pm

Ariose is back, and crazier!

Before we all knock down JJ and throw him under the bus, are we 100% sure those were his tweets?

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2009
7:38 pm

Wow, what I found most interesting about the Rosen article is his grouping of coaches. He has Woody, Sam Mitchell, Don Nelson, Don Chaney, George Karl and Scott Skiles (amongst others) in the same category. I’m fairly certain that Nellie and Karl both reject that categorization. And I find it shocking that he has placed Nate McMillan in the same category with Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan. WOW!

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
7:55 pm

This is a nice list of a coaches mandate. I added my own scores.
Woody has taught subtle, detailed aspects of the game. C+
Woody understood the necessities of discipline, preparation, teamwork and unselfishness. B+
Woody knows that since they could rarely overpower a game, they learned how (and why) to let the game come to them. B-
Woody gets the players to hard and never took shortcuts. B+
Woody gets his players to develop their off-the-ball game. D+
Woody values the contributions of role players. B-
Their psyches weren’t overwhelmed or unduly influenced by the star syndrome. B
Being good enough to simply out-talent so many of their contemporaries while their knowledge of the game was relatively shallow. D
Woody expected the players to be able to do the things they were able to do. B-
Woody expected the players to completely follow his orders. C
Woody expects players had to come to him and not the other way around. C+
Woody has humility and admits mistakes. C-

Hoops

August 31st, 2009
7:55 pm

Give it a rest guys! Coach Woodson opened his mouth when he should not have. We have all done that at times in our life. He is our coach right now. I hope the Hawks are great this season and he earns his extension!

Samuel

August 31st, 2009
8:25 pm

First of All,

I could care less what JJ tweets. It don’t surprise me at all. I always trip when people bring up teams with “so-called” character guys and call others “thugs” and come with baggage. Please, most of these guys are all the same. Rich and arrogant. I have much better things to do than be somebody’s groupie on twitter.

On Woody,

That’s what I really dig about this guy. Straight up and not scared to speak his mind.

Woody=COY

doc

August 31st, 2009
8:37 pm

i guess the season has started.

vava74

August 31st, 2009
8:51 pm

KevinA,

Looking at your post, I think Woody gets a B- overall, maybe a high C+ with good possibility of jumping into a solid B or B+ category if he fares well this season.

Looking at the “active” coaches list, my take would be:

Pop, Phil, Riley and Sloan A+
McMillan, Adelman A
Larry Brown, A-
Saunders, A. Johnson, Carlisle, Scott, Rivers B+
Frank, M. Brown B
Woody, Mitchell, Skiles, SVG, Karl, del Negro, Birkerstaff, Gentry B-
JVG, E. Jordan, Spoelstra C+
Dunleavy, Nelson, Iavaroni, Curry, Cheeks, Hill, McHale C-
Theus, Stotts, Isiah T., D

vava74

August 31st, 2009
8:51 pm

I think Woody is, right now, a middle of the pack, solid B-

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
9:34 pm

Samuel, You’d reather be Woodsons Groupie right

FELLOW BLOGGERS!!! I assure you, i’m fine hehehehe. I had a little more vitamian C than normal this morning but i’m good!!!……did somebody say Crunk Juice

BosnianBaller

August 31st, 2009
9:42 pm

Are you sure it’s Joe Johnson? Anybody can put up Joe Johnson Arkansas.I’m pretty sure it’s not him

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
9:46 pm

vava74, Works for me. With better talent and more options this year another B- to B should be 50 – 54 wins with the same grade.

Samuel, the NBA sends these players to work with the community as ambassador for the game and the city. What kind of message do you think JJ was sending. He should be fined that $5,000 to help him down the path of behavior modification.

Ariose

August 31st, 2009
9:59 pm

Sigh….I guess it’s time for someone to stir the pot in the other direction.

In JJ’s defense(there really isn’t one for this but i’ll give it a shot) He has some close female friends on twitter it seems. You know like his publicist and his Wordrobe lady(those are the two I saw on there that he was talking to) anyhoo, the seem to live him, and were even laughing about the nigtclub refrences he was making “I hope she’s clean lol!” So I doubt this has anyhting to do with JJ treating women badly or not thinking highly of them(I’m sure his mama rised him better than that.) He seems to just been having some fun. Think TO on his new show(whick comes on tonight BTW @10pm) the Public has one perception of his acts, via the media, but when you see his show, you see that he’s just a normal dude and is not nearly as egotistical as the media portrays him to be. Kinda like how J-Smoove isn’t nearly the immature crybaby that the National……well….

That still doesnt excuse the fact that Joe is always in the public eye and should act accordingly. What he was saying was reckless and If he doesnt know how quickly media spreds on the internet via Blogging/twitter etc. then he should have gotten some information first befor delving into “the madness” as I like to call it.

dos hawkquis

August 31st, 2009
9:59 pm

KEN,

Thanks for the bio. I hold you in a different category now, since you obviously have a pedigree. I never played or coached basketball, but I play football and was pretty damn good. Anyway, I know see how you approach the critique of Woodson. Thanks.

Two question for you:

1.Who out there do you propose the Hawks get as a coach, if Woody is canned? Would you trust this team to an unproven assistant? No big name would come here for less than 6 mil. You may as well keep Woody for 4mil.

2.Run and gun teams play poor defensively. In the past 10 years, all of the NBA champs have been defenesive, half-court stalwarts: 3years of San Antonio, ‘03, ‘05, and ‘07 far from run and gun. Boston ‘08 wasn’t running, Detroit ‘04, nope. Laker, ‘00, ‘01, ‘02 and ‘08 were not “running and gunning teams. Maybe the Heat in ‘06

KEN,
I hear you calling for an “uptempo” team, but again look at the past 10 years and you would be hard pressed to find a team like the Suns style of offense winning a championship. I think that Woodson’s request for defense is the way to go.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

MannyT

August 31st, 2009
10:13 pm

@Vava74–note on your grades that most of the C- & D guys got fired this past season. I also take huge excpetion to giving Riley an A+. He was hot with the Lakers. He came up with a good physical variant with the Knicks. He really didn’t achieve with the Heat. He took a back seat, then jumped to the front of the line when Stan van Gundy had a squad in Miami.

As for the terrific job–that’s crap. If Woody is a fair to middling coach with a severely flawed team, they would severely suck. SO either the team is better than Rosen gives credit or the coach is. He cannot throw both under the bus at the same time and backpedal by calling the fair to middling guy terrific.

I am not a Woody fan, but I agreed that he deserves more rope/opportunity to do his thing. If he can repeat last season’s success, i.e. 2nd round of playoffs, then give him an extension.

If I were to put it in People magazine terms, Woody probably knows he’s like one of Julia Roberts husbands–that’s about as good as it’s gonna get for you. Hang on to the gig however you can.The ASG ain’t close to Brad Pitt either. They cannot toss out Woody and automatically expect to get a comparable coach for the low dollar. It’s a match made in the higher end of the middle of the pack.

@Samuel–I like Woody when he tells it like it is. I’ll be more impressed with his coaching when he makes more effective in game adjustments. I have seen too many timeouts near the end of the 24 second clock when we don’t even get a decent shot attempt.

By the way, if you want to find some personal value in Twitter, get friendly with the #. Great way to find useful stuff.

@Ariose, 44 cans of Crunk on the wall, throw another down and pass ‘em around, 43 cans of Crunk on the wall…

BWAF

blonju

August 31st, 2009
10:15 pm

a lot has been happening in good ole hawksville this summer. jj tweeting is a good thing as long as he’s not doing anything illegal. we should all be happy to know he likes women & has a sense of humor. if you make nba money, 95% of y’all haters would do the same thing – and the 5% who wouldn’t – good for you and who really cares about your morals anyways? kids will look up to joe as long as he doesn’t kill people (or dogs). jason collins is a great pickup only because we shouldn’t have to see randmo embarrass himself trying to be an NBA player. MARIO WEST OR OTHELLO HUNTER FOR THE 13th SPOT? i can’t believe how much this matters to me and a lot of you – MARIO is the best 4.3 seconds of defense in the league – and at one point, i think i heard seiko say OTHELLO is an early version of brandon bass – i believe you have to keep both to start the season with BOTH and waive mario if something better falls in our laps. as for woody, he is a B- coach with the chance of being a B+ coach this year (but only if he magically learns how to be flexible with his in-game style and allows this team to run when it’s there). he’s only GUARANTEED an extension if we WIN a second round series. sund appears to know what he’s doing. we are a 50 win team this year and a 4th seed at worst. RISE UP HAWKS FANS!!

Also, on another note, Ariose – mike conley is the best PG in memphis by far, no matter who they sign – he is 21 years old – look at his game by games stats from Feb to April last season.

blue hawk

August 31st, 2009
10:40 pm

what? no Korolev in training camp? hey this guy could turn out into more than a Peja Stojakovic, it’s won’t be a bad idea to give this guy a bench spot.

at last…we’ll have a new coach soon. i’m sure Sund is smart enough to eye an up tempo coach.

KevinA

August 31st, 2009
11:24 pm

blonju, if you make nba money, 95% of y’all haters would do the same thing – and the 5% who wouldn’t – good for you and who really cares about your morals anyways? kids will look up to joe

Money dosen’t have anything to do with respecting women. What are you? the Taliban? And yes it should be about kids when they look to a star for a role model. We should not glorify, defend mistakes or think they are ok. We are all human and make mistakes so JJ and all of us should deserve some deference. He will be fine if he ends the stupidity. There is no sliding scale for money Trs morals, only trouble follows that train.

Mystikal

August 31st, 2009
11:41 pm

JJ is rich, yeah yeah, but he is still a normal guy. When he goes home he has friends and family he kicks it with like anyone else. It doesn’t surprise me at all about his twitter. I actually expected much worse considering all the fuss. As a pro-athlete he is still one of the good guys.

Big Ray

August 31st, 2009
11:46 pm

Twitter is what it is. Follow whoever at your own risk.

As for role models, I’d be more concerned about the role models kids have in the home, and in the places they live. If your kids have problems, it’s likely far less about who they worship on television (or whoever is wearing whatever jersey) and more about YOU. YOU control their influences in and around the home (less so when you’re talking about school, but it still applies). Yes, people of public fame an influence have an effect on the general population. So if JJ and whoever is tweeting crazy stuff, or acting up in public, it’s still up to YOU to teach your kids that whatever they’re doing isn’t right.

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
12:00 am

Charlie Rosen didn’t even mention Greg Poppovich. Is he scared of the guy?

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
12:09 am

MannyT ,

I agree on the Rosen comments. And in this case, I’d say the team is better than he gives them credit for. I also agree that Woodson deserves this second year to show that he can continue to win and compete well. He’ll have greater depth, so there shouldn’t be the usual noise about injuries and insufficient help (and short rotations and too many minutes). Last I looked, Sund signed him to a two year contract, presumably for the sake of a full evaluation . It’s been one year with Sund. Time for year two.

Woody can speak his mind all he wants. Good for him. I like it when Bibby speaks HIS mind, too.

HB Ando

September 1st, 2009
12:29 am

I have to agree with Ray’s 11:46 post regarding role models.

And if JJ wants to be a “twit”, then that’s his right. For folks who are having trouble reconciling the “new” JJ, and the JJ they think they have come to know over the years, there are two pretty realistic explanations:

1) You never really knew anything about him, personally.

2) He’s changed, and it might not be in a way that his family-oriented fans would be happy with.

People don’t live in a vacuum, so JJ may have become more of a hedonist in the last few years. If that’s the case, then it is what it is. Hopefully he won’t break any laws, or screw up his career. But he’s free to get his party on like any other citizen of the United States, whether folks like it or not. I still support Barkley’s position that these guys aren’t obligated to be role models for your kids, though it’s certainly appreciated, by the parents of children who idolize professional athletes, when they choose to embrace the public persona of “role models”.

JJ has seemingly been a gym rat for most of his life. He may of finally gotten a taste for getting his “freak” on. He wouldn’t be the first, and he won’t be the last.

My name is HB, and I think this whole “blog” thing is very novel and cool. You folks know a bunch about basketball, and I’m looking forward to gleaning knowledge about the Hawks from this site, as the NBA season approaches…….

MannyT

September 1st, 2009
12:47 am

It’s the ghost of hoops blogs past. Welcome back Ando.

@Ray–But does Woody like it when Bibby speaks his mind? That, by extension leads me to, Does Samuel like it when Bibby speaks his mind

If I were a public personality, I’d have 2 twitter accounts. One that was for all the voyeurs that want to watch, and another that was locked down (i.e. protected tweets) for my real blabber with actual people of personal interest.

BWAF

doc

September 1st, 2009
12:55 am

he’s back, for a moment or a season? hey ando.

manny t, there is nothing to protect you in twitter land; like doing porn with a “friend” to find it on the net. no privacy in twit realm anywhere.

vava74

September 1st, 2009
2:57 am

Big Ray,

I think Rosen did not mentioned Pop because he did not play in the league, meaning that he falls out of the theme of the column.

vava74

September 1st, 2009
3:51 am

Also, his assessment of Woody is incomplete: he has done, according to him a terrific job SO FAR, however, this does not mean that he has the tools to go beyond this point (hence he thinks he is a FAIR coach).

Some HC are suited for this type of job, in particular defensive coaches who happen to be good dealing with players like Woody does.

I think everyone should wish that Woody continues to develop his own skills as a coach and that he proves his detractors wrong by leading the Hawks to, at least, a good second round showing.

Samuel

September 1st, 2009
6:39 am

First of All Ray,

I never said I had a problem with Bibby speaking his mind. Neither did Woody. Good coaches know who knows the game and who doesn’t.

Now, Josh, that’s a different story. That’s why he and Woody clash. Josh has “ZERO” Basketball IQ. Man can’t even understand basic stuff like when and where to shoot and when and where to dribble. Cries on every foul call. He plays on pure athleticism and has no right to question the coach until he proves that he “GETS IT” mentally.

Welcome back Ando, hope all is well with the family. How is the little one?

Astro Joe

September 1st, 2009
8:53 am

If Crawford and AI are working out together, I’m going to quit my corporate gig and start selling basketball balls in the CNN Center… because the Hawks will need a few hundred extra.

Wow, Abe and Ando show up in within 24 hours of each other. Where’s Flash?

Here’s my conspiracy theory on Joe’s twitting (if it is really Joe)… he’s beginning his campaign for a new contract. Why not create a little “buzz” by sharing some provocative stories? Maybe this is a marketing campaign to get him off the “best players who you forget about” list and get him into the mainstream of pop culture. Is it possible that an agent could suggest that a guy with a lot of Twitter followers can translate that following into basketball-related merchandise (or ticket) sales which should be a variable in considering a free agent contract? I don’t think that is a huge leap, not if you follow the money. If he wants to increase his “sreet cred” without doing anything stratight stupid, have at it.

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
8:58 am

The addition of Joe Smith will give the Hawks an experienced veteran. Will this change the rotation of minutes that Woody employed with the big’s last year? Woody rotated ZaZa, Al and Josh, trying to keep at least two of the three on the court at the same time. With the addition of Joe, Woody now has the option to platoon the first and second unit. There may be gains of continuity to be had.

Teague, Crawford, Evans, Smith and ZaZa could come in and play in block minutes. It would be interesting to see this tried in preseason games.

Another interesting line up would be of course putting Crawford and JJ together with Evans, Joe Smith and ZaZa. I would call this line up our jump shooting squad.

This would allow the next line up to be Bibby, Josh, Al, Marvin and West. I would call this our defensive and low post squad.

Woody has never had the luxury to deploy players in groups or blocks. Trying the idea of continuity in a fashion he is not used to. Will he practice the squad with this type of thought in mind?

Then there is substitution and rotation, a player on player within a team concept, bringing in players best to match up the opposing rotation.

The Woody style is to put his best players on the floor for as long as he possible can. This will be his first real/fair chance to explore other alternatives. His contract next year might be determined by his ability to succeed with other alternatives.

kwooden1

September 1st, 2009
9:16 am

First on JJ:
I’m a JJ fan, so my first reaction to his comments were surprise and some disappointment. I think I was more surprised than disappointed because Twitter is open and it gave me the impression he was seeking attention. Once I took sometime to think about it, I actual forgot about his comments all together, until I got back on the blog. I’m a guy who has kids and goes to church so I can understand where some people are coming from. I’m also not ignorant to the world we live in, or to the fact we know very little about public people. So from a public perspective I think this could help or hurt JJ. Remember Iverson had the leading selling jersey for years and he’s always been considered a bad boy and Kobe has the leading seller now (over Lebron) and we all know his past. Nothing wrong with a bad boy/party image in terms of endorsements, if you keep it contained. I just hope JJ is working on his body (getting ready for the beating of a long season) and reading up on defensives (because he’s still going to get double-teamed a lot)

Woody:
From what I could read he made the correct answer to a very direct question. After a playoff season you should always say you deserve an extension. No one knows what’s going to happen this coming season and a coach should always say he’s needs another year to work. I think his comments support his staff and his players. I’ve been in the group that wants replace Woody and I’m still in that group. But I know that he’s here for at least another year and I also understood the move to keep him. It was good for team chemistry.

Personally I don’t care for the move to pick up Collins because it takes minutes away from RandMo, but I guess another big body doesn’t hurt. We should definitely keep Hunter, he looks like a good bench player.

GO HAWKS!!!

Mike is back

September 1st, 2009
9:21 am

KevinA, nice line-up…don’t count Othella Hunter out of the mix…he got energy and offense…plus his mid range is sweet too. Guys have been talking him up…I hope he makes the roster.

HB, well said…welcome back!!

GO TEAGUE…GO SILER…GO HUNTER…AND GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Astro Joe

September 1st, 2009
9:21 am

What I like most about the Joe Smith (and impending Jason Collins) signings is that it should mean NO COMPLACENCY. I think that scrimmages should be amped up to levels unseen in recent Hawks history. Woody will have all kind of crazy combinations to use.

Back to conspiracy theories, strange that one season after loading up the team with 15 players (including several “projects”), Sund is now taking the “roster flexibility” approach. What, we didn’t need roster flexibility last season? Sounds to me like he is maintaining a 2-for-1 trade flexibility, so that the roster can go to 14 and still have that empty seat for any emergencies. Great plan, just don’t know why it wasn;t employed last year (when we could have tried to lure a big man who was bought out of their contract). Maybe he learned his lesson.

Daniel

September 1st, 2009
9:35 am

kwooden- I was with you on your post all the way until the end when you lament that RandMo won’t be getting more minutes.
That guy should NOT even make the roster!!!

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
9:42 am

Samuel,

I didn’t say you did have a problem with Bibby speaking his mind. MannyT asked that question. Valid question though, and I think your answer was fairly well put. I get what you’re saying about Josh. The only thing I disagree with is the “zero IQ” comment. Dude isn’t completely bereft of basketball IQ. You don’t put up those kinds of stats with zero IQ. I’d say his IQ is low , but not non-existent. And everything else applies. He cries to the refs too much, he doesn’t know enough to challenge every call by the coach, etc. I hope he grows out of it. If not, I hope we do what we need to, to get better. If that means sending him packing, so be it.

It’s on YOU, Smoove. ….better listen to what the elder Smith tells ya….

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
9:47 am

Astro Joe,

Good points involving the addition of Collins and Smith. Also, I think there was a little less roster flexibility last year when we were paying Bibby $15 million, and we were looking at a bunch of re-signings coming up this offseason. But, I don’t know the numbers as well as some here, like Niremetal or MannyT . I figure there’s a reason for it, but it probably ain’t the one I suggested.

Daniel,

RandMo makes the roster because he’s still under contract. The only way he gets out of a Hawks jersey (for the purposes of this argument, anyway) is if we trade him. Hell, that’s a whole ‘nother thread by itself, lol…

Daniel

September 1st, 2009
9:52 am

Astro Joe- In reference to your 8:53 comments, I hear you about maybe Joe is tweeting to increase his profile. I just don’t buy it. If I were his agent and that is the route I was going to take, then he would be doing interviews, maybe appear on a “superstars” type show, etc. Even if he wanted to be controversial then he would say something like the Hawks are better than the Celtics or “Lebron is overrated”. Those tweets just seem like a little weird insider type banter that really has no business for public consumption. Those should be texts to friends not tweets. I hope that he is not now developing a freak nature, like ando suggested. He is too old for that.
C’mon Joe…. we love ya, but the twitter page is stupid.

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
9:57 am

Shout-outs to HB Ando and Honest Abe!

KevinA,

I agree. Woody’s MO has been to put the best players he has and keep them on the floor as long as possible. Many would argue that he did this because of a very significant dropoff in talent/capability when his starters came out, and that argument has a great deal of merit.

The idea of reserves is to be able to keep up the intensity, if not necessarily the talent, and to change the pace of the game in certain segments, where appropriate. Woody will now have the option of doing so as he pleases. I would be surprised, as well as disturbed, if he does not. Notice I didn’t get into specific detail as to how he employs his reserves. That’s for him to decide, though you know I won’t have any problem voicing my opinion, heh heh heh!

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
10:01 am

I don’t care what Joe Johnson is tweeting about.

I don’t care if he’s a freak, or becoming one.

I don’t follow his twitter page.

Follow the #1 rule: if you no likey, you can stop reading anytime….

newkid

September 1st, 2009
10:17 am

Daniel, if Woody were approaching retirement, he might ask himself ‘what’s the harm’ in a little gentle nudging via the media. Woody hasn’t established himself as an elite coach, but he potentially has decades of NBA coaching ahead of him. It is therefore probably not wise to inadvertently ‘market’ himself – as a potential employee – as one who’s very comfortable straying off the reservation (my apologies to the native people of this land) in pursuit of what he believes is his just deserts. So, IMO, his question should be ‘how does this approach help me?’, not ‘will it hurt me?’. And he should ask that question from both short-term and long-term perspectives.

kwooden1

September 1st, 2009
10:29 am

Daniel I haven’t seen enough of RandMo to count him out yet. Collins is only good for giving a few hard fouls a game, but RandMo has shown some ability to score. If RandMo can show the ability to give fouls as hard and quick as Collins, then I will take him. We can use a little more in the paint offensive.

GO HAWKS!

Astro Joe

September 1st, 2009
10:40 am

Daniel, the reality is that discussing your profession is less likely to launch you into pop culture than discussing your life. have you heard about these things called “reality shows”? They don’t take us behind the scenes of someone doing their job, we get to see some portion (real or not) of the person’s life. If Joe wanted to be Joe NBA, he could probably get a blog on NBA.com… and only basketball geeks (like myself) would read it. But if he wants to be become a product endorser, a guy who appears in music videos or someone who can sell more than a dozen jerseys in a season, he needs to show us Joe Johnson and not Hawk employee #2. AI is an icon more because of his off-the-court style than for his on-court performance. If Joe maintains his Tim Duncan-like personality, he will continue to be a wallflower just like Tim Duncan.

JSS

September 1st, 2009
10:43 am

Co-sign Big Ray at 11:48… Send that one to the Opinion page…

Astro Joe

September 1st, 2009
10:46 am

kwooden, I agree that we need more low-post scoring, i just wouldn’t expect that from the 3rd string center. That scoring needs to come from Horford, Smith, Zaza or Joe Smith, the guys who will get 98% of the C/PF minutes for this team (barring injury).

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
11:29 am

I think my last post got eaten by the blog monster.

kwooden1

September 1st, 2009
12:08 pm

Astro I’m thinking that any big guy can give a hard foul, but not any big can score. I will take the guy that can score and foul over the guy that can only foul.

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
12:10 pm

The days of $5 million-plus coaching salaries, expected extensions and hefty raises are increasingly being reserved for only the most successful coaches like the Lakers’ Phil Jackson and the San Antonio Spurs’ Gregg Popovich, who also heads his franchise’s basketball operations department. NBA commissioner David Stern chastised the league’s owners this summer for spending too much money on their coaching and scouting staffs. With the NBA about to begin negotiations for a new Collective Bargaining Agreement, one league source said Stern told team owners that the Players Association will likely protest a reduction in the players’ salary structure unless the salaries of coaches and team executives also are decreased.

“Stern has been hammering the owners about that,” one Western Conference executive said. “The owners have been taking it to heart. … There is some significant downward pressure with coach and front-office salaries. I’m in that boat, too. I’m in the front office. I’m feeling it just like everyone else.”

That alone would tell me, as a first-time head coach, to maybe be careful what I say. Woody’s talking about an extension like he just finished his contract.

“We deserve it with what we’ve done this past year. Any other coach probably would have been extended without a doubt. “For us not to be extended is not right. But it is what it is. … I still have a job to do.”

If this were a player talking, we’d be saying he’s selfish, self-centered, greedy, etc. We’d be telling him to get out of here, and we don’t need attitudes like that. Even if the player was facing free agency that very year (as in, he doesn’t know where he’s going to be working that coming season) and the front office was telling him to go find an offer from someone else. We reacted thusly with both Joshes, did we not?

But we’re talking about a coach. A coach who HAS a solid job this year, and nobody is telling him to go find a job offer elsewhere. And that whole bit about “any other coach probably would have been extended without a doubt”….really? Wow, what a mature statement. The man talks like he’s not going to get an extension. If that’s the case, he might want to start re-working that resume and making himself look good. That statment was probably meant to sting the front office (and perhaps ownership). And it may hit it’s mark with his fans and supporters. But as Newkid queries, does it say more about his presumably intended target, or does it make him look like a complainer? Petulant, even. What’s the common phrase: “it’s not the message intended, but the one received.” Statements like that can easily do more damage to the perception of any possible employers, moreso than it can do damage to his current employers.

And based on the parts of the Yahoo Sports article, who do you suppose owners are paying more attention to, Big Daddy Stern or a 5 year head coach with a losing record?

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
12:23 pm

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
1:13 pm

@-)

Big Ray

September 1st, 2009
1:28 pm

KevinA,

What’s that? A new smiley?

Ariose

September 1st, 2009
1:33 pm

PREACH!!!!

dap01

September 1st, 2009
1:46 pm

Shut up Woody. No one is born with the right to be extended before the end of a contract. If the money is not enough, go somewhere else. I hope he just shuts up and coaches.

Have a great year but shut up.

Melvin

September 1st, 2009
1:51 pm

Woody should honor his contract and continue to do his job. No one force him to sign a 2 year contract. He was well aware of the terms. Besides, it was him who wouldn’t allow his assistant coaches to leave for greener pastures a few season ago. I recall him saying that those coaches should honor their contracts at the time…. Well, well look who’s complaining now…

Mystikal

September 1st, 2009
2:12 pm

SEKOU,

If we do indeed sign Siler, after having signed Jason Collins, do you think we could be looking to trade Randmo down the road? Even if it is just for cap space?

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
2:27 pm

Ray,
I was trying to figure out how you did that

Ariose

September 1st, 2009
2:38 pm

MannyT-I’ve finished and started over again lol. 68 cans of Crunk on the wall, throw another down and pass ‘em around, 67 cans of Crunk on the wall..whoo!

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
2:43 pm

:-”

Mystikal

September 1st, 2009
2:44 pm

This is the hawks line-up as most currently reported:

Bibby 6′2
Joe J 6′7
Marv 6′9
Josh 6′9
Al 6′10

Teague 6′2
Crawford 6′6
Evans 6′5
Joe S 6′10
Zaza 6′11

Randmo 6′11 (still under old contract)
J Collins 6′11

And if roster is going to hold at 13 as speculated, than i’m guessing the last spot would go to a guard. KEEP ME STRAIGHT SEKOU!!

Ariose

September 1st, 2009
2:49 pm

Sekou, When you run into Mike Bibby tell him that the fans want to see ONE regular season dunk……just one lol….I already know what he’s going to say but it’s worth a shot hehehe….

Oooh, & & at least FIVE ankle breakers during the season. He should get some incentive bonuses in his contract if he pulls this suff off lol.

Mystikal

September 1st, 2009
2:50 pm

At this point, i’m good with the roster as is. I’d like idea of trading Evans and Randmo for a bigger back up SF, but not hating on Evans. He plays good perimeter D and can occasionally hit an open 3. I have no love whatsover left for Randmo’s freeloading A$$, can’t wait til he’s gone. Think Teague & Crawford will be something special off bench. Man, I can’t wait for the season to begin!!

O'Brien

September 1st, 2009
3:29 pm

On another note, What was Minnesota thinking? Taking 2 PGs in the top 6? And now Rubio signed a 6 year deal with Barcelona, and cant come to the NBA until the 2011-2012 season.

At least we got some good years out of Childress before he went overseas. I can’t imagine what the Timberwolves fans are saying.

Based on Sund’s moves, isnt it great to be a Hawks fan? When was the last time our future looked so bright?

macaroni tony

September 1st, 2009
3:30 pm

I see east standings we’re forcasted at the fourth seed again, But instead of 50 wins, we will win only 45.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastStandings

doc

September 1st, 2009
3:51 pm

melvin not sure but that may have been one of the few things bk ever said …. not woody.

Melvin

September 1st, 2009
3:55 pm

doc, I couldn’t imagine BK making that decision without input from Woody but I could be wrong…

A Thinking Fan

September 1st, 2009
4:24 pm

WOW! An HB sighting with comment…

O'Brien

September 1st, 2009
4:25 pm

macaroni tony,

I think 45 wins and 4th in the East is a good guess. And I would be okay with that. I would like to see us win more games on the road though. But As long as we make it to second round of the playoffs, and win at leat 2 games in the second round, thats cool with me.

dap01

September 1st, 2009
4:33 pm

i like Joe but that Twitter info was unimpressive. I will try to forget that I even read it.

Go Hawks!

macaroni tony

September 1st, 2009
4:50 pm

OB, I understand what your saying, but I feel like we can get to the 50 win mark this year. I mean the Heat have only added Q. Richardson and they’re going to lose one less game than us. Go Hawks and shock the world.

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
5:09 pm

With the weakness of the bottom east, and the amount of veterans on the team. Anything less than 52 wins will be under achieving to me. Last season the Hawks could’ve easily have won 50 games, if it wasn’t for injuries, and the play my main man Smooth made on Vince (but who knew it would go in). 47 wins is good for a team that’s 10 mil under the luxury cap. But not for a team that’s pushing it, and will have to go into the luxury cap to have this same roster come back next year.

The Truth

September 1st, 2009
5:10 pm

The bigger question is will Woody get an extension if we win 45 games, host the 4th seed, beat the Heat again in the 1st round and get swept again by the Cavs in the 2nd round?

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
5:16 pm

Although JJ is the leader of the team, why do I feel like Smooth or Horford going down with injury would hurt this team the most?

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
5:22 pm

The truth, the answer to that question is no. But the bigger question is would Sund give the team to Larry Drew if they start off 8-13.

NEL

September 1st, 2009
5:47 pm

FIBA Americas 2009:
Sunday 30, Argentina 89 Dominican Republic 87
Al Horford 24 points 11 rebs
Today Tuesday Sep 1, Dominican Republic 80 Uruguay 74
Al Horford 17 points 12 rebs 3 assists 3 steals 2 bs

Performance looks familiar ?

The Truth

September 1st, 2009
5:49 pm

Ramon

I agree he probably would not. However, Sund is a strange nut to crack at this point. Based on his actions, he would tend to take the conservative approach and try to maintain some team continuity and strongly consider Larry Drew. Unfortunately, Larry Drew will be perceived to be a rookie under-study to Woody and for that reason the idea maybe met with some skepticism. Any miss-step by Sund would be on his watch and he would bear the consequences.

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
6:06 pm

The Truth, I completely agree. Everyone is saying that they want Woody gone. But for his salary, who can you really get to replace him that has good experience, and more importantly, playoff experience. Paul Silas maybe?

Blast

September 1st, 2009
7:11 pm

In truth, if he expands his offence more, Woody as a coach seems to be a good fit for the Hawks, especially for what you are paying him. But this year, he has to grow with his team. All Sund wants is for Woody to prove that he deserves an extension. He signed a 2-year contract. He needs to finish his obligation. He has the chance this year to take Hawks as high as they can fly. He does well, he, gets a new contract.

And Hawks might still be stuck in 4th in the East, but a 45 win season will be a massive disappointment. After the re-tooling this year, anything short of a 50+ win season will not be acceptable.

Was HB Ando really in the house?

macaroni tony

September 1st, 2009
7:27 pm

Blast,

I agree with everything that you just said. We are no longer the youngest team, and we won 47 wins with a lot of injuries. So if we stay healthy then I’m going to say 51 wins this year.

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
7:35 pm

Ramon,

Not everyone is saying they want Woody gone. In fact many of us has pointed out Woody has not had much to work with until this year. Many of the teams warts have been justified considering he delt with raw talent for the last three years.

He is simply in his last year of his contract and Sund has made it quite plain there are expectations. To think of Woody’s demise is a little premature. I think the team will be stronger because of our core players.

My only advice to Sund and others is not to get caught up in the Teague/Crawford hype and the impact on the team. In fact unless injury plays a role there is a chance they will play spot minutes. Even if they earn minutes it will be later in the season before they jell with the rest of the team. There are always choices to be made later depending on what happens.

If I were Woody and my job was on the line, I would still fight for Flip as option C. Just in case Teague and Crawford don’t work as well as planned. I think when your job is on the line Woody should be allowed deference on the last couple of spots. West defense? The D- league MVP? Collins? Hunter? Real choices make real differences. Sund should listen carefully.

If I were Woody I would still go with got him this far. The NBA is not a developmental league. He has more pieces to play but I could understand him wanting to play his best when push comes to shove.

Blast

September 1st, 2009
7:37 pm

Macaroni Tony,

You are right. We could easily have won 50 games last season. If we stay healthy next season, win more road games, hold home court as usual, I’m hoping for a 50-55 win season.

Blast

September 1st, 2009
7:43 pm

50-55 win season, regardless of how the so called ESPN/NBA.com pundist call it. We all know they’ve been woefully wrong about the Hawks before.

Hawks win 50 games and Woody has himself another contract.

rusty

September 1st, 2009
7:44 pm

who cares

that was rhe dumbest assesd blog i ever read about your ball hogging
hero jj

macaroni tony

September 1st, 2009
7:52 pm

I will give Woody a little credit in his first four season his record sucked, but the last two years he’s went 84-80. I don’t think that record alone is going to get him to the contract that you would like. But a 50+ win season will get him to that contract.

niremetal

September 1st, 2009
7:53 pm

Man, it’s good to be home. Onto basketball.

Believe it or not, I don’t need to feel the need to say much right now. The usual suspects have quieted down about how terrible certain players are and making silly trade proposals (if I’d heard “Josh for Amare” one more time, I would have punched through a wall). The roster now is basically set, and it looks damned good. We have at least 3 solid options at every position on the floor, although I grant that we’ll bound to have some guys playing minutes slightly out of position (namely Horford, Joe Smith, and Mo) but that’s to be expected and those players are used to it.

There is no reason the Hawks shouldn’t be able to win 55 games if they are healthy and are coached well. They are 2-deep at every position on the floor, which is something that even Orlando (PG) and Cleveland (PG…and SG too, considering their overreliance on combo guards) can’t say.

Like many have said, Woody has the type of roster he has dreamed of for years. Now he has to show that he knows what to do with it. I’m sure I won’t be the only one rattling his sword is JJ is playing 41 minutes a game come December.

And with that, I will look forward to the Hawks’ Thanksgiving weekend game against the Sixers. Hopefully, the Hawks will cruise into that game with a 10-5 record or better. But I’ll reserve my season W/L projection for after training camp…

Sautee

September 1st, 2009
7:54 pm

vava74,

You said this: “We would have swept or won 4-1 the Miami series if it wasn’t for the refs and if we had a full roster and impartial refs I think we would have won at least 2 games against Cleveland (in the regular season we won 1 and got robbed of a second victory with a bogus call going against us).”

Really?

I’m all for being positive toward our team, but this begs credence.

I was livid at the refs in the CLE series, but I thought they missed as many for them as for us in Round 1.

We actually didn’t play well in the MIA series except for games 1 and 7.

We played just well enough in game 4 to win. Mostly we played down to Miami’s level. Except for Game 1, we failed to dictate to them how we wanted to play.

And yes, we were injured against CLE but we still stunk. Look what the Rockets did without THEIR stars against the World Champs. We were never competitive in that series.

And that last second regular season loss against CLE. Yeah, it was a bogus call that EVERYBODY in Phillips KNEW was going to come. So what did we DO about it?

We did NOTHING. We COULD have played 2 for 1 when we had possession with 0:40 left. Cleveland had just tied the game. If we shoot within 10 seconds, we KNOW we’ll get the ball back with a few ticks no matter what THEY do on their last possession.

So what does fearless leader do? Calls for Iso-Joe and we take our sweet time and DO NOT get a good shot (a running hook with 25 seconds left). They get the rebound, call time out and get the foul they are looking for at the end of the game clock. LeBron – one for two. Ball game.

Woody played right into their hands. Just one of the (many) things that make folks here doubt whether he can lead us to a Championship.

I know you were bringing this up as a boost for Woody’s image here, but maybe that wasn’t the BEST example.

Hoops

September 1st, 2009
7:58 pm

Everybody seems to have a prediction for this year going on now. Well, I don’t know how many games the Hawks will win, but I predict they will finish ahead of Orlando. Their record may not be better than Boston or Cleveland, but they will be a #2 seed!

Hawks Will Surprise!!!

The Truth

September 1st, 2009
8:09 pm

These have been excellent points regarding Woody. It seems by some that it is not enough for Woody to just win 50+ games and improve over last year, but they want it done a certain way. For example, if there were such a scenario where Woody would ignore conventional wisdom repeat his bad habits and again shorten his rotation by overplaying JJ and not developing Teague but by osmosis somehow win 50+ games, some folks would still want him fired. The Flip factor is yet another example.

Blast

September 1st, 2009
8:18 pm

Don’t see how Woody can shorten his rotation next season. Reason he has been doing that is because he did not have capable back-ups to keep the game in line. Now he is two deep at every position. So long as his bench is producing, Woody will utilize them, and not wear out his starters so much.

macaroni tony

September 1st, 2009
8:31 pm

I think this would be Woody year! I am not Woody fan, nor have I ever been a fan. But this is the first time that Woody has had this many veterans, and that will make a big difference this year for him. Everyone so focused on the so call big three but I feel the Hawks can sneak in on one of them this year.

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
9:00 pm

Kevin, I agree with you. I would love to see Woody expand the offense and keep the reigns of the team. I’m just curious to know from some people, after Woody, who do they really think would be the replacement on that salary. I think most people can testify to the fact that if Woody wins 55+ games next season, it will take a 73 win season from someone else, for him not to win CoY. And then the question is, if the teams win 55 games, but there still isn’t any improvement in his coaching (which is very possible in my mind b/c I think they could’ve won 53 last season), then is that still good enough for a 3-5 year contract. I don’t see Woody signing a 2 year deal any time soon.

I MUS WRITE

September 1st, 2009
9:01 pm

TAP TAP TAP!!!! Is this thing on?…… Dam blog monster. Ariose put the coffe down playa!!! “Salim for threeeee” hahahahahah…. I recently put Dunkin Donuts in my rear view mirror- Mornings are horrible now

Who cares what JJ Tweets??? I sure the hell dont,unless its about Hoops Who really care if its him Tweetng???- There are hundreds of idiots hacking accounts and such…. Just as long as he doea’nt go Stephen Marbury on us-That dude is mentally challenged…He goes from cry’n in church to smoking haze on camera in a matter of weeks. Dam shame

Woddy wants more money Huh? Ahhhhhhhhm Yeah- im gonna hold my thoughts til December…

KevinA

September 1st, 2009
10:04 pm

Ramon,

if the teams win 55 games, but there still isn’t any improvement in his coaching (which is very possible in my mind b/c I think they could’ve won 53 last season), then is that still good enough for a 3-5 year contract. I don’t see Woody signing a 2 year deal any time soon.

At some point if a coach would win 50+ and have 4 seasons with increased wins, I don’t care how he did it. However Sund would have to consider between a 2 year contract and a 4 year contract considering all the factors.

Lets say Woody did his normal deal and played his best players for the most amount of minutes he thought they could take and won 55 games. Maybe some of us would have to rethink our complaints. I just hope he puts us in that position. lol Well maybe not.

Ramon

September 1st, 2009
10:47 pm

Kevin, what about 55 win season, and 1st round elimination from starters being tired. lol. I don’t think he’s that stupid, but its too funny.

Ariose

September 1st, 2009
11:01 pm

Iverson was just on NBA Gametime(NBA TV)….at the Hawks practice facility being interviewed by E.Snow. Nice lil interview….

I Mus, lol. No coffe for me sir, just high off life. A glass of OJ in the morning is all I need to kickstart my day!

As far as Joe is concerned. While hearing that stuff from him was suprising, it wasn’t shocking. I was more dissapointed in his poor judgemrnt and the fact that he did not take into account that Twitter is a public forum of sorts and everyone can read what he posts….I was mainly concerned with it from an image standpoint…..REMEBER this is the guy representig US, OUR franchice….walking around with OUR ticket money…..Then again, Josh is really the face of the franchice beleive it or not, Joe just has the title of/is top dog…

Like I said, bad PR move for Joe….bas judgement from our 28 year old superstar to air that out. It could have potentiall made our franchise look bad…..than goodness no one pays him any attention lol.

If Smoove had done the same thing, I think Hawks fans would’ve gone into a frenzy(I think smoove has better judgement than that BTW…I wonder what that says about JJ?).

Anyhoo…Go Hawks… Rah Rah….just counting down the days…I hope a Training Camp roster to comes out soon…

WAFFLE

Ariose

September 1st, 2009
11:03 pm

We will win 55 games easy. That was my prediction a month ago and im sticking with it. I can’t wait to sshove it in schuhmanns face when it happens too…..and anyone else who doubts us…

kwooden1

September 1st, 2009
11:08 pm

NEL just watched the Dominican Republic vs Argentina game on ESPN 360 replay. I didn’t realize Horford scored that well. Very good game, a lot guys can really shoot the ball for Argentina. Scola scored 30 that game, he was the best player on the court. Horford was clearly the most athletic and dominate player. The Dominican’s really didn’t get Horford the ball enough, I think they wanted to run their offense through Horford, but they just weren’t patient enough. Beside they have Garcia and Villanueva on the team to dribble and shoot every chance they get. For all those wondering, Horford is still mechanical in his movements but better. He showed a nice step back jumpshot in the post, from about 10 feet. That looked like a move he could use in the NBA. Check out the game if you get the chance, not a lot of high flyers, but good basketball.

GO HAWKS!!

MannyT

September 2nd, 2009
12:28 am

If the Hawks win the same amount of games, it is a better effort. The top 3 in the east have tried to get stronger and some of the bottom 11 have gotten better.

@KevinA — This link will help your smiley magic.

@Ariose, I’d say you are off the chain, but I think Niremetal would prefer that I say in Russia, the chain is now off YOU

…and for those who forgot or never saw it WAFFLE = Woody Arms Folded, Feeding Lower Expectations

@Ray & AJ, I don’t think the full roster versus Bibby’s salary is a cap question. It is a strategy one. My easy guess for last summer is that Sund was in Newbie don’t rock the boat mode. He went along to get along on minor issues like how full the seats were at the end of the bench. As long as he stayed within his budget, I dount it was a big deal. When people got released during the season, I would guess that there was not enough mutual interest to make a move. If there had been interest, someone would have met the midseason Turk….just like your boys Matt Freije & Ced Bozeman a few years ago.

@O’Brien–Not positive about the Rubio details, but I think he didn’t make much with old contract. Euro teams had different rules regarding getting him out of that deal than NBA teams. FC Barcelona put much more cash on the table for his old team than the Timberwolves could. Now Rubio makes much more money, too. In the short term I think everyone is happy but the T’wolves. In the long run, this could still work for him because his NBA salary is slotted. If he comes here Minnesota controls the situation.

@doc–Twitter is wide open, but you can choose to protect your tweets so that your stream is only available to people that you approve to tweet amongst. They can still spill your beans, but the general public cannot just look you up and read your stuff. What happens in Twitter can stay in Twitter if everyone involved keeps their feed zipped to the outside.

BWAF

big jack

September 2nd, 2009
6:45 am

The next big man for the hawks is Peter John Ramos 7′ 3″ 280 , check myface he has the up side we need and he’s only 24 years old.

JSS

September 2nd, 2009
7:26 am

Big Jack…
Has Ramos finally proven that he can stay healthy yet? I remember that being his issue during his Wizards and NBDL stints?

doc

September 2nd, 2009
7:26 am

manny t, ever had a loose zipper? not easy to overcome the draft from it.

twitter effect is kind of like loose lips among friends only magnified in that it is on electronic paper.

The Truth

September 2nd, 2009
7:58 am

It is beginning to make sense. Maybe this is the motivation behind signing Jason Collins. Will this be his claim to fame?

Hoops

September 2nd, 2009
8:05 am

The Truth,

Good find. Maybe Collins can help us!

vava

September 2nd, 2009
9:32 am

Today at FIBA Americas 2009 Puerto Rico vs Dominican Republic. Al Horford vs Peter John Ramos, in case you guys want to see if Peter John is really an option for the Hawks.

niremetal

September 2nd, 2009
10:23 am

MannyT,

It looks like we are gonna cut the Russian. But in Soviet Russia, Russians cut YOU!!!

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
10:25 am

Seems that if Collins is signed then there really isn’t a need for Peter John.
Assuming that Collins is signed we would have 12 players under contract. Unless the Hawks can dump RandMo(wishful thinking here) we only have one spot left essentially.
You would have Hunter, West, Korolev, Siler? to choose from or as Sekou suggested a 3rd string pg.
Ramos just doesn’t make any sense once Collins is done.

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
10:29 am

Ariose- excellent 11:01 post. I agree 100%. It is very interesting that a) if it were Josh making those tweets people would freak out b) that Josh seems to be more mature and savvy than that.

Just goes to show that immaturity on the court does not always translate to bad judgement in life, and vice versa.

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
10:39 am

Sautee,

Disagree/Agree:

I don’t think you watched the Miami series closely. After game 1, where we showed the true difference in value between the two ball clubs, there were constant bad calls going against us, and I mean CONSTANT and BLATANT calls against us.

Miami’s defense got away with elbows in the face and whatever they wanted to do (JJ never got to the line 1/3rd of the times he was fouled) and we, on the contrary, were called on every single minimal contact made to Wade and his muchachos.

I can tell you that there was a willing plan in execution to favor Miami and at least extend the series.

From your description, I am forced to agree that Woody botched the game (I did not watch the game), however, we were THERE competing to win on that game which is a testimony to good preparation.

I never said that Woody was the best coach in the league, however, he has done a much better job than his predecessors and that should be taken into account.

SVGundy managed to take the Magic to the finals but he made a complete ass of himself with decisions which would make you puke blood if you were a Magic fan, so, hold your horses and be patient.

Finally, the bottom line is that we are not in position to aspire to a championship.

Before that, we need to establish ourselves as a solid franchise, always contending to be in playoffs and aspiring to reach the conference finals. Baby steps!

The above also means that we all should be aware that this ball club will only reach the next level (conference finals) IF and WHEN Teague becomes the main man at the PG position.

If Teague proves to be what we all wish him to be, we will have a fantastic and solid veteran coming of the bench in Bibby making our PG position extremely solid.

If you add to this JJ – Crawford (if we renew with both at reasonable price), an improved Marvin, a hopefully mentally evolved J-Smoove (rebounding and defending primarily) and a mature Al, I believe that we will be EXTREMELY SOLID within 2 years.

Don’t forget that: the Celtics within 2 years will be all in the asylum. Lebron will be rebuilding somewhere, the Magic will learn that they have made a mistake and that Vince does not bring to the table what the Turk brought and that J-Nelson is not a balanced PG…

Who else in the East will be in a better position to aim at the conference finals and even the NBA finals???

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
12:21 pm

vava- I could nit pick with some of your points, but you know what…
you are a good Hawks fan. I am going to ride with you on that last post.
only thing… Jameer Nelson is already a premier pg.
Go Hawks.
BTW- you live in Portugal right? How did you become a Hawks fan?

Sautee

September 2nd, 2009
12:44 pm

vava74,

I appreciate your cheerleading ways. Seriously. We always need that on a blog that is too often negative. However, I taped all the playoff games and have gone back and watched them repeatedly. I saw lots of bad calls on BOTH sides, and I’m as big a “homer” as one could name.

We played down the the level of the Heat except in Game 1 and quarters 2 and 3 of game 7. We failed to dictate the game to them except for Game 1.

I don’t know what SVG has to do with this, but I WILL say that Orlando looked a million times more prepared coming out of time-outs than we do. They had plays that actually worked (or in the case of Courtney’s blown layup, SHOULD have).
And SVG had the stones to call that play for his 5th option. I wish we had an iota of that kind of imagination.

When do you ever remember a great play coming out of a timeout for the Hawks?

I’m NOT saying let’s fire Woody. But if he doesn’t grow on the offensive side, we’re doomed to be in the middle of the pack. You CANNOT win a Championship with jump shots alone.

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
12:48 pm

Hi Daniel,

I started following the Hawks in the mid 80’s, long before cable and internet.

Actually long before we even had private TV in Portugal – we had only 2 public channels until 1993 – I started following the NBA through the spanish tv (I live fairly close to the border and we got on those days a special antenna and an amplifier to boost the UHF signal).

They also only had 2 channels back then, however, they had a weekly show on friday evenings with a game from that week) and if I am not wrong, they showed the all star games live and the finals taped (I remember watching a couple of the Celtics-Lakers finals).

One of the first games I watched was a Hawks’ game and I immediately became a huge Dominique fan and inherently, a Hawks fan for life.

Obviously Dominique’s performance in the slam dunk championships and in the 1988 all star game played a huge role as well.

I use to follow the Hawks results on the spanish tv’s teletext (I don’t know if you know what is this, but is was like an internet service of the “stone ages” which was (still is) available within the UHF signal).

Sometimes the reception was so bad that I had to wait for a full 10/15 minutes before the page loaded correctly with all the results and the standings.

I believe that I still have some taped games from the late 80’s period which I watched over and over!

Later, in the early 90’s I also started to buy the USA Today to get the box scores from the previous day and even ordered some VHS tapes from a german company which sold NBA games from the previous week.

It all seems so archaic now!!!

Then I went through a period of some lack of interest, but now I am back on the saddle!

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
12:55 pm

Sautee,

I still disagree on your analysis of the Miami series. I believe that your vision is blurred by your negativity towards our performance.

We never repeated game 1’s performance because we were denied early in the game by refs the possibility of getting into the flow.

I am european and I know a lot about crooked refereeing since that is absolutely killing football (soccer). The best crooked refs make it look accidental and it is in the details that escape the casual observer that they do the real damage.

In relation to Woody, I already said that I agreed with you.

In relatin to SVG: he had the balls to call his 5th option on that play but he did not have the balls to keep Nelson in the bench during the finals. He completely lost it there.

This is basically to illustrate that some coaches are better in some areas than others.

I’ll take you last sentence as the “core” info to keep in mind since I also agree.

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
1:16 pm

vava- that is a really cool story.
Honestly, Sekou or the Hawks should do a public relations piece on you.

I am huge soccer fan. I love Liverpool, but my main team is a small English club called Luton Town. I became a fan by playing as them on Nintendo.
I follow the club on line and I am a member of the fan club message boards. I got the chance to go to England and attend a Luton Town game, the local paper did a piece on their Yankee fan. It was a really awesome expierence.
I hope one day you will get the chance to visit Atlanta and attend a game.

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
1:18 pm

sautee- what about the play call against Boston early in the year, where Woody had Joe penetrate the baseline and kick out to Marvin for the 3 pointer. We lost the game on Pierce’s last second shot. I know that is from early in the season, but it is the first example that came to mind.

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
1:59 pm

Sautee,

I resent a bit your “cheerleading ways” commentary.

Why can’t a guy be positive when assessing the Hawks’ progression without being patronized?

If you want to patronize people, patronize the ones who only look at offensive stats or value dunks more than the little things that make a team successful.

We have made tremendous progress since the 13-win season and we have a solid starting 5 and a solid reserve 5 (if Teague does not disappoint) and Woody was an integral part of that progress.

Yes, he has faults and it is sometimes maddening to watch the ISO-Joe Hawks but there is much more beyond that. If that was not the case, then you should mark up JJ’s assessment up to the level of Kobe.

Since I am sure that you wont, you are bound to acknowledge that if we won 47 out of 82 games with some important injuries along the way, there is more to the Hawks and Woody than ISO-Joe.

Astro Joe

September 2nd, 2009
2:30 pm

Sekou, yeah, I know that too many players (in basketball and baseball) seem to have problems staying healthy after a rigorous off-season of competing for their native country in international competition, only to have to play a full season of “big boy ball”. Even with the added depth, we still need Horford to take the next step in his evolution.

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
2:58 pm

thanks for the update Sekou

Daniel

September 2nd, 2009
2:59 pm

vava- I am not trying to speak for Sautee, but I didn’t think he meant to be condescending. I think that he appreciates your opitimism.

Sautee

September 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm

Vava74,

Daniel is correct. Notice that I went to the effort of saying “Seriously”.

There was NO patronizing. Sorry if you took it that way, but I tried to be clear.

You also said this to me: “I believe that your vision is blurred by your negativity towards our performance.”

I was NOT overly negative about our performance (we WON the freakin’ series!), but I DEFINITELY think we played down to their level. If THAT is negativity to you, then OK, I’ll just have to live with your scorn.

But I was totally serious about your positivity being a needed part of the blog.

Daniel,

I could be wrong here, but that play seemed like Iso-Joe and when Marvin’s man tried to help, Joe made them pay. I’ve never said that Iso-Joe doesn’t work some of the time. It does. But all TOO often it leads to a poorer shot than if we worked the ball around more. And uses up the shot clock without making the defense work.

FEMHAWKFAN

September 2nd, 2009
5:52 pm

PEOPLE, TAKE IT DOWN A THOUSAND! As a strong and mature woman, I was not offended at all by Joe’s tweets. He was having fun with his friends. That’s what friends do! Think about it people, how many times have you dared your friends to do something crazy when you were Joe’s age. EVERYTHING is not about basketball people! What do you expect him to tweet about: training for the upcoming season, his contract extension, and making a case for keeping Woodson! I think not! Lay off the man, people!

Jody

September 2nd, 2009
6:13 pm

Hey Sekou,

Thanks for the update on Al Horford. Is he starting at center or power forward for the Dominican National Team?

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
6:50 pm

Hi Sautee,

Just after Daniel’s last post and before yours I tried to post a new entry but the blog monster got it.

I will try to recapture its contents and spirit:

I am an optimistic guy but my optimism in this case is not a optimism “by default” as “cheer-leading” implies.

On the contrary, I think that most of the negativism around here is “by default” forgetting the real circumstances behind the Hawks and originated by people demanding to win “now”.

Wanting to win “now” is alright, however, you cannot go from “wanting” to “demanding” which is unrealistic.

The “win now” strategy (trading for “proven names” and spending loads of cash) works frequently, I don’t question that, however, if you look at things realistically, you’ll see that the teams that have had success with that strategy (Celtics, Lakers, to some extent Miami when then snatched Shaq from the Lakers, …), they have very different circumstances than the Hawks:

1. Deep pockets
2. The organizations and the cities are appealing and perceived as good destinations
3. They have a bigger market (important when you consider endorsements, etc…)

Let’s face it, the Hawks are low in all the three categories:

1. The Atlanta Spirit are losing money and obviously they are not in position to simply throw money into the fire.
2. There are almost no sell outs in Hawks’ games and it was frequent to have the crowd cheering the opposing team on account of Kobe or Lebron and the Hawks, as an organization is not known to be a successful franchise.
3. I understand that ATL, as a market, cannot be considered small, however, it does seem that it may be too small to be divided between the Hawks, Braves and the Falcons (and now the Thrashers), specially in light of the fact that ATL does not seem to be a very strong BBall town.

Hence, our only exit is to keep this core together and see where this will take us. I am very confident that if we re-sign JJ and Teague is at least 75% of what we all wish him to be, within 4 years we will have reached the conference finals at least once and be in position to demand to “win now”.

Mystikal

September 2nd, 2009
7:33 pm

Good post Vava, you made some good points.

Mystikal

September 2nd, 2009
7:36 pm

SEKOU,

Any more news on who is a lock for training camp? Heard Siler already invited and believe Hunter and West making appearances? Did Korolev really sign with a Euro-team, never heard officially? Lastly, any of the alleged 3rd point guards we may be signing invited to camp?

bbgenie

September 2nd, 2009
8:08 pm

Sekou, Would you sign A.Iverson. to a 1 yr deal if he was willing to play for the Vet Min? $1.3 million.Could he help us?? I know minutes would be an issue for our Backcourt, but this would be a good problem to have.

jose

September 2nd, 2009
8:10 pm

Jason Collins a Hawk!!! More beef?

bbgenie

September 2nd, 2009
8:11 pm

Enter your comments here

terrell barron

September 2nd, 2009
8:18 pm

Is Randolph Morris’ contract guaranteed? I was thinking the 2nd year wasn’t. Anybody know? I cant see him having a spot on this team, now that we signed Collins.

terrell barron

September 2nd, 2009
8:20 pm

bbgenie, all AI would do is cut into Teagues minutes. Hell to the naw!

Mystikal

September 2nd, 2009
8:39 pm

It’s official, Jason Collinns is a hawk! Yeeaahhh??
J/K, this is the best depth we have had in the post for long as I can remember. This fills our 12th roster spot. Training camp should be very interesting.

terrell barron

September 2nd, 2009
8:52 pm

Mystical, who’s #11?

Ramon

September 2nd, 2009
8:57 pm

Reading that he was taught defense by Mutombo and Mourning was very refreshing to read! You know he must have some knowledge on defensive positioning and getting the most out of every movement.

vava74

September 2nd, 2009
9:14 pm

Looking at the Fiba PR-DR game:

I am glad that we did not look into Villanueva. If we all think that J-Smoove is a knucklehead, then we would all commit suicide if Villanueva played for us…

He’s a black-hole and a TO machine.

Al, on the contrary, is doing an excellent job…

chuckw/deadjournalist

September 2nd, 2009
9:40 pm

it’s been a while fellas – i figured it was time to crawl out of the off-season woodwork.

the roster sure looks a lot better after the last few weeks. despite all the moves, i still hate that flip won’t be back. i’ll be honest, i’ve never really paid attention to jamal crawford’s game. he’s been like time thomas in that way with me. flip’s play, even before the hawks, always stood out when ever i’d catch a game in which he played. as much as many people have equated crawford’s skill to that of murray, until i see him put the team on his back three or four times, i’ll wonder how flip would have handled it. i’m not trying to make flip anything more than he was – a veteran scorer, but i tip my hat to him.

the last two signing of collins and smith are solid, and underscore what most young teams need, solid productive match-up vets. collins is six, strong, hard defensive fouls who will bring his lunch pail to work – during the game and at practice. smith, solid and steady.

in watching this team develop, the frustration has always been that maddening inconsistencies. hopefully smith will help steady the front court for those games with josh gets two quick fouls, gets pissed, and goes to the bench.

two months more month before we find out for sure.

updated:

1. bibby
2. johnson
3. williams
4. smith
5. horford

6. crawford
7. smith
8. pachulia
9. teague
10. evans
11. collins

12. to 15. morris/west/hunter/siler/robinson

Mystikal

September 2nd, 2009
10:23 pm

terrell,

Randmo is already under contract, had one more year guaranteed from old deal. Sucks :frown:

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
12:09 am

Vava74,

We don’t all think Smoove is a knucklehead. Come on now, you know I can’t let you get away with that one! . Seriously, I think he has knucklehaead moments. Unfortunately, they can last for games at a time, sometimes.

MannyT,

Thanks for clearing that up. I knew you would. And I didn’t forget the WAFFLE. You were number 1 on the acronym charts last year. Numba one stunna!

Sautee,

Couldn’t agree more. We played “down” in the Miami series. I’d like to see a better (more convincing) series this time around, though I’m sure somebody will say I’m being picky. Ain’t it nice to assume that we’ll be in the playoffs?

ChuckW ,

Whassup?! Glad to see you’re still around. I like the addition of Smith and Collins as well. This might mean some run at power forward for Big Al (though not a whole lot). And it’s nice to know that these two guys will be a challenge for Smoove, Big Al, and even Marvin in practice. Not to mention, if Smoove (and I sincerely hope he doesn’t do this) loses focus for too long a period of time, we have solid frontcourt guys to turn to besides Zaza (a one-man backup plan is never a good thing). Even with fouls and injuries, we’d still be covered to an extent.

Also, agreed on Flip. I hate to see him go after what he did for this team. Such is the life of an NBA journeyman. As for Crawford, the guy doesn’t have the best shot selection, but he can score like nobody’s business, and he can get to the line with regularity.

Niremetal,

Welcome back! If JJ ends up having to pull that 40 mpg crap again, it better be due to a slew of injuries. Otherwise, I’ll be rattling the saber right next to you.

jihu8

September 3rd, 2009
12:16 am

Pr-Dr game: Horford ate Peter John Ramos and Daniel Santiago together, both 7 footers. He looked really well, despise the plays are not run through him. He is playing center. Villanueva is power forward, and he is not worth 40 millions

Rig Bay

September 3rd, 2009
12:24 am

“Collins played in 31 games with Minnesota last season and averaged 1.8 points and 2.3 rebounds.”

Wow!! Bring on the big 3 in the east!! that 2nd seed is a sure lock now that we have collins. if we can jus’ get siler in camp we are set!!

ant banks

September 3rd, 2009
12:30 am

on the hawks poll: how would you grade the hawks off season acquisitions? who were the 19 clowns that graded the moves a “D” and 5 nuts voted “F.”

wtf? that’s why i hate these polls. there are some real idiots out there.

i gave them a “B”.

doc

September 3rd, 2009
12:41 am

ant some folks think if we didnt get kobe, shaq, bron bron and steve nash over the summer it is a bust.

Dean21

September 3rd, 2009
1:32 am

Let’s see….Bibby, Marvin, ZaZa, a real point guard in the draft, a good trade for Crawford, Joe Smith and now Collins…hmmmmm that folks = a freakin A!!!!!

Dean21

September 3rd, 2009
1:34 am

Sund has done wonders revamping this team on a positive level!! We should give the man a standing O! This is clearly an over 50 win team now….

Ed

September 3rd, 2009
2:33 am

With 12 players signed, and with 10 (the first 10 on Chuckw/’s list) absolutely deserving playing time, Woody is going to have a nervous breakdown handling a ten-man rotation night in and night out. It goes without saying Woodrow will have no excuses for running JJ and the starting lineup in the ground. Throw in RandMo and Collins for practices and things should get pretty intense which will strengthen the Hawks overall.

vava74

September 3rd, 2009
6:38 am

I only saw the first half of the PR-DR game and Al was terrific, keeping his team in play with his defense and hustle.

Villanueva on the other had during the first half did his best to keep the DR out of the game with poor shot selection, unwillingness to pass the rock and with several turnovers.

He then did score 10 pts in a row (I only read about it) and finished with 21 however, I rather have a player that scores 15, shares the ball, doesn’t break plays and hustles than a guy that scores 25 doing the precise opposite.

dap01

September 3rd, 2009
8:08 am

Sund has been an excellent GM this year. Woody don’t complain, just take advantage of this improved roster. Win 50+ games, improve as a coach and get that new contract.

This team has more weapons and more depth. There is no excuse to overplay Joe Johnson. I wonder if he will complain if his minutes are reduced by 5 minutes per game. This team should be fresh and ready to go during the playoffs.

Go Sund!

Clyde

September 3rd, 2009
8:32 am

ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!! ALABAMA WILL BE DEEP IN ATLANTA THIS WEEKEND

ILL-logical

September 3rd, 2009
9:03 am

The reaal genius of Mr. Sund’s off season moves is the number of contracts that will come off of the books next year. With Joe Smith and Collins being 1 year league minimum deals; Mo Evens and Randolph Morris’s expiring contracts there is almost $6 million coming off of the books . Plus, if Joe doesn’t re-sign, Jamal Crawford’s contract number is $ 5 million less than Joe’s and if Joe is resigned, the first round draft choice would be his eventual succesor and Jamal’s $10 million contract can be traded for front court depth.
Now Al’s extention doesn’t look to bad and if Silo ans Othello are ready, they can replace Joe Smith and Collins at a slightly lower cost. Sweet.

ant banks

September 3rd, 2009
10:45 am

CLYDE,

thank god ‘bama don’t play utah!!

Daniel

September 3rd, 2009
10:48 am

on grading the offseason for the Hawks…. I gave them a B, the only real knock has been the Childress situation. Otherwise, the contracts have been very reasonable with a nice trade and two nice FA additions in terms of depth.

Sekou… Dude, you HAVE to give Bradley a hard time about his whole “the Hawks are done dealing” blog after Marvin’s extension. He was so wrong on that one.

I too am wondering about the status of Korolev. Is he going back to Europe?

vava74

September 3rd, 2009
11:08 am

Daniel,

Bradley is wrong since birth. I don’t lose too much time reading what he has to say.

The same applies to Schultz. Although he is right – to some extent – about Woody in his last column he is overplaying the importance of Woody’s statement..

newkid

September 3rd, 2009
11:11 am

Could the Jason Collins’ signing indicate a non-verbal commitment to signing and developing Siler? In the past we’ve talked in this space a fair bit about the lack of a ‘big man’ coaching presence on Woody’s staff, and the lack of a real big man for whom such a coach is essential. Could it be that Sund has identified one of his future big men (i.e., Siler) as well as his primary tutor (i.e., Collins), and obtained an ‘on the floor’ presence to boot? If so, no NBDL for Siler. Sly as a fox that Sund, isn’t he?

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
11:35 am

Ill, Mo has a player’s option next summer so it won’t likely expire until the following summer (when Jamal’s deal terminates). But Sund was successful in getting Bibby, Marvin and Zaza to take a dip in salary next summer. That was a great move and will hopefully allow us to keep our 1st round pick in ‘10 (while staying under the luxury tax threshold).

Dean21, I wouldn’t call this a “revamped” roster, but I give Sund a boat-load of credit for surrounding the existing nucleus with solid role players and needed depth. If Woody maintains his “ensemble cast” approach, everyone should find a way to be productive, since there are no true projects here (other than Teague) amongst the top 11 players.

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
11:36 am

LOL, Yahoo says Hawks had one of the 10-worst jerseys of the last decade…

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-worst-jerseys-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,186507

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
11:37 am

Oh yeah…

~Sir Links A Lot~

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
11:42 am

newkid, maybe. That assumes that Collins is a “coah in waiting” like Sam Cassell, Eric Snow and Darrell Armstrong in the last few years of their playing career (I think Lindsey Hunter falls in that category also). I don’t like to assign the old guy in the room with the task of playing baby-sitter. And even though he mentioned that “all vets need to help the younger guys” it doesn’t mean that he is ready to accept that as his primary role. My question is will Sund sign Siler and add a 5th center to this team (Horford, Zaza, Collins, Morris, Siler)? Or would that final slot be better served with a different position? My preference? Buy-out RandMo’s contract, sign Siler AND a pass-first vet PG. Has Darrell Armstrong retired officially? Let him become Teague’s personal tutor for a year.

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
11:46 am

Ariose, I HATED those yellow Hawks jerseys. But my Top 10 would have featured those gold-lame Wizards jerseys from the past few years. Each of the 10 entries would have been a different Wizards player wearing that same FUGLY jersey. They look like something that Liberace would have worn if he were a basketball player.

Ramon

September 3rd, 2009
11:47 am

Here’s a name that I’m curious to see what everyone thinks of: Brevin Knight. It seems he was scheduled for a workout for Memphis, but didn’t show. How would you guys/girls react to him being added as the teams 3rd string PG?

JSS

September 3rd, 2009
11:56 am

I have stated before that I feel that Atlanta and the Southeast are greatly under served by the columnists of the AJC and the level of demagoguery that occurs in print and sports radio here (I won’t mention the main culprits names, just their initials JK and JS). The beat writer blogs tend to be the oasis from that. Now, that being said, some of you guys have some real hoot-n-nannies between ya! I stay out of that… But as we are now a month and some change out from the beginning of camp. What is the real consensus now? Are they the same BASG or the ASG now in action with the lawsuit no longer clouding the water? What about the coach and his staff? I know some of you hate him, while others are lukewarm but respect that we are no longer an afterthought in league circles. Where are we really on Michael Woodson as he enters his final contract year? And please, no name calling… In regards to the training camp roster, not any prototype rosters for the real season, how do you feel?

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
11:57 am

Did I say I was finished?

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/3/1013580/jason-collins-where-the-hot-spot

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
11:58 am

Hahaha! AJ i’m in COMPLETE agreement with you. All photos of those jerseys should be burned immedately!

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
12:00 pm

AJ, That Wiz jersey is on the list! But it’s just one picture with Gilbo on there lol.

I.MUS WRITE

September 3rd, 2009
12:14 pm

Ramon- Ur on it man, I was just thinking that we need to sign a 3rd string PG and who better for that spot than Brevin Knight…. Veteran,plays solid D, pass first type, Ability to break down the D and get to the rim-Im all for it we should bring him in for a work out.

J Collins was a good pick up….Now Woody can look down the bench and feel secure when Al is outta the game. Solo and Morris could’nt gaurd me in the post and im 6′4….Dam Shame…. Solo is a bag of bones at 225 and Morris is a wack sandwich collecting a check and traveling around the country for the free….

I believe if we had a Collins and Joe Smith last year we woulda been about 5 games better….. Im sure Collins would have been a better match up against Yao and Brook Lopez just from a size/experience stand point…..

So we have 12 guys under contract…. I would add a PG,Hunter and maybe Siler who isnt as big a need since we signed Collins.

Nirmental-What part of Italy were you in….I had alot of fun over there Triese and Civicheveckia are really nice cities …I got a chance to see the pope on X-Mas eve… It was a good experience for me-hope u took advantage of the tours and such……

I have to say that im impressed with how the Falcons and Hawks are handling bussiness lately…. Quality over mediocrity……..

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
12:18 pm

Teague’s future Backup?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3CXon8Ve0&NR=1

Ramon

September 3rd, 2009
12:23 pm

I Mus, I see Knight and think he’s the type that Woody loved in Ivey. I think he and Bibby would do a great job of tutoring Teague as well. And he’s not so athletic that he would really take minutes from Teague. And he has more speed and defense than Lue or AJ had.

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
12:26 pm

I had mentioned Brevin Knight about a month ago. Then I looked at how poorly he has shot the ball in the past few years and read how he seemingly has decided NOT to penetrate into the lane and I changed my mind. I like the idea of someone who can teach Teague how to “change speeds” because that sometimes is a problem for young lightening quick guards… they only throw the fastball and that usually doesn’t work in the NBA. Someone young and hungry wouldn;t be a bad choice either… like a PG-version of Mario West. Someone who would look at Tegaue and say “I don’t care if your a 1st rounder from the ACC, I need to put food on my table so I’m about to go Rucker Park on you”. Let’s be honest, it’s not as if this team has a bunch of tough-guys (despite these great off-season acquisitions, we’re still looking at a pretty soft team). So adding grit in the last roster spot wouldn’t be a bad call either.

Ramon

September 3rd, 2009
12:57 pm

AJ, I feel you. I saw that .375 average of last season. But I also feel in what he is needed for, his points wouldn’t be needed truly in some ways. To just have 8 minutes here and there with the second unit. Trust me Crawford will shoot enough for him lol. And you’re right about needing toughness. But I honestly feel Horford, Smooth, and Zaza are pretty tough. But you’re right we don’t have any street guys, although I actually think that is Teague lol.

newkid

September 3rd, 2009
12:58 pm

Ariose, good find on young Seth Curry. Pedigree is evident isn’t it? The competion he’ll face at Duke – both during practices and games – will likely do wonders for his development (although I’m counting on the young chaps in Chapel Hill to consistently bust his chops).

AJ, didn’t mean to suggest that Sund envisages Collins’ principal role as tutor to Siler; just that in addition to Collins’ on the court value during the season, he’s the kind of player from whom perhaps young Siler can and will gain tons that he won’t otherwise get in the NBDL. Sort of a ‘two for one’ if you like. And Collins’ remarks certainly suggest something less than a reluctance to act in such a capacity, didn’t they?

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
1:41 pm

LOLOLOLOLOL!!! This is worth watching the first 20 seconds just because of Al Horfords intro. Classic!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8iqxmKCmLc

Melvin

September 3rd, 2009
1:48 pm

Astro,

Now that the Hawks has signed Smith and Collins, how do you like the acqusition of Crawford now? Would you prefer Flip and Tony Battie that you proposed after the Crawford deal?

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
1:51 pm

Mel, I think we should STILL try to add Flip AND aquire Tony Battie IF by january-Early Febuary were looking like something special…

Melvin

September 3rd, 2009
1:56 pm

Ariose,

I know you like Flip but wouldn’t you think both players would be redundant at this point considering everyone stays healthy…

macaroni tony

September 3rd, 2009
2:01 pm

If they sign Flip then you would be in a suite like Ty Lue was last year with the Magic. We have the most veterans in years, that can play so please give the Flip thing a rest. I like Flip but they’re not going to sign him, and I’m tired of hearing about it. Lets get the third seed in the east this year, and have Woody to coach the All-Star game.

jerrywest

September 3rd, 2009
2:07 pm

Which player will exceed expectations the most in 2009-10

Horford 18%
Josh 20%
Marvin 23%
Crawford 14%
Teague 25%

Voting in progress at
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/339103-which-player-will-exceed-expectations-the-most-in-2009-10/

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:08 pm

…..I just meant if we were looking like a title contender, It would be wise to load up with even more vets for the post season run. Murray, Brevin Knight, Bobby Jackson or whomever. You mentioned Flip so I just put him in the mix. It really doesnt matter to me. We’re not likely to be a contender anyway so it’s really a moot point I guess…

My point was that contenders really load up for the long haul(like Cleveland and Orlando have done).

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:09 pm

I would really like for us to look into prying Tony Battie away from New Jersey though.

O'Brien

September 3rd, 2009
2:17 pm

Sekou,

With JJ, Bibby, Crawford, Josh Smith and Marvin Williams getting their shots, I just dont see Woody running many plays for Al in the front court, so I dont think he will have a monster year. Al averaged less than 8 shot attempts per game last year.

My expectations from Al this year would be something in the range of 13pts, 11 rebounds per game, which if we get those numbers and he plays solid defense, I will be okay with that.

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
2:18 pm

newkid, I appreciate what Collins said. And maybe he means it, but honestly, I think it is one of those things that every vet says. But we all know that every vet is not able nor interested in being the resident guru for the younger guys.

Melvin, Sund has done a terrific job and thus my name change. He was able to secure bring in the bench scorer and add a quality big in Joe Smith. And by expertly negotiating a dip in the salaries of Bibby, Marvin and Zaza, we should be able to keep Joe AND our 1st rounder. No doubt, he averted all of my fears I expressed when we acquired Crawford. And with Crawford saying that he will pass first, there is nothing left to worry about.

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:21 pm

….and we would have to trade for Battie…..Id give up collins/Morris in a heartbeat….Or Morris/’Rio

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:28 pm

Here’s that AI Interview I was talking about that happend at the Hawks practice facility a few day ago…

http://dimemag.com/2009/09/allen-iverson-talks-free-agency/#comments

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:35 pm

Nuggets Looking at Flip Murray:

http://dimemag.com/2009/09/the-denver-nuggets-need-to-make-this-move/

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
2:54 pm

A couple of Blurbs about the Hawks in this piece:

http://dimemag.com/2009/09/how-minnesota-can-forget-about-ricky-rubio-for-now/

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
2:59 pm

Ariose, good find. I will post the long snippet here…

Have you been paying attention to what’s going on with the Denver Broncos? After years of quasi-contending but never really being a Super Bowl-caliber squad, they finally fired longtime coach Mike Shanahan this offseason and replaced him with young whippersnapper Josh McDaniels. But now before McDaniels has even coached his first official game, he helped piss off QB Jay Cutler enough to where Cutler demanded (and got) a trade, and WR Brandon Marshall is pulling a classic “I’m gonna act up so much they HAVE to trade me” act that’s about to work in his favor. What’s the NBA equivalent? Let’s say the Hawks have another decent-but-not-great season in ‘09-10, then they fire Mike Woodson and bring in a young hotshot like Memphis’ Josh Pastner. But before Pastner can even get the ball rolling, Joe Johnson decides he doesn’t want to be in Atlanta anymore, and then Josh Smith turns into another T.O. trying to force a trade. The sad part? We can actually see that exact scenario happening with the Hawks … It does bring up an interesting question, though: If your team consistently made the NBA playoffs but never really threatened for a championship, would you rather keep things like they are without any major changes, or try a big move to shake things up, even if it means a couple years in the Lottery?

Daniel

September 3rd, 2009
2:59 pm

Ariose- If we could really get Batite for Morris and Rio, that deal should already be done.
I love what IMUS said- Morris is a Whack Sandwich.
Between Knight and Lue. I take Lue. Better shooter, knows the system, good guy.

Daniel

September 3rd, 2009
3:05 pm

Asto Joe- thanks for the piece. The guy clearly doesn’t know what is going on in Hawksville as the team is building towards bigger and better things. I mean we haven’t even been “cosistently in the playoffs”, yet. Sund’s managment of the salaries that he has signed has put us in the position to make moves to improve, without necesarily having to start from scratch.

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
3:15 pm

Astro Joe,

While we’re talking about hypothetical situations, let’s say the Hawks have a not so great season and they hire some young whipper snapper, who leads us to greater things….let’s say JJ signs the offered extension, let’s say Josh Smith morphs/evolves into an all-star player…let’s say…..

As to your question at the end of your post, that’s a tough call. I think that scenario is how Woody ended up here in the first place, don’t you? These things happen eventually. If you’re having stagnant season after season, somebody will eventually blow things up. Like it or not, we could end up there again, though hopefully not. If we do, we’ll live through it just like we did the last time we were in the lottery. Although hopefully we will have somebody who can draft more than just one position. Maybe this time we won’t pass over 3 all-star lead guards…

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm

Hey, How close are we to the L-Tax threshold? We may only be able to afford Either Siler OR Mario lol.

I like Siler, Mario, and Maybe Korolev or Carney to round out the roster.

Speaking of Mario West. Bruce Bowen is about to offically retire at age 38:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4442293

If Mario ever gets a jumpshot, he could be a more athletic version of Bruce Bowen.

dos hawkquis

September 3rd, 2009
3:43 pm

BE CAREFUL HEAPING PRAISE ON SUND,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Acie/Speedy trade for Jamal Crawford, and picking Teague has Sund REALLY done anything? I mean, waiting people out and picking the best of what’s left doesn’t show skills, to me. Now he was hella in getting Golden State to take Acie/Speedy for Crawford, that was GREAT!!!

But all of the other moves, while good in the own right, doesn’t show SKILLS. Joe Smith, Collins were just laying around waiting on someone to pick them up.

Just like Sund’s assessment of Woodson, show me more, that is my assessment of him. Getting Flip/Mo Squad last year, thru no skills is nothing to brag about nor is getting Joe Smith/Collins.

Sund’s body of work is still Dallas in the 80’s and Seattle in the 90’s. He and Woodson may be in the same boat as far as ASG is concerned.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friend!!”

Daniel

September 3rd, 2009
3:54 pm

dos hawkguis- you also have to include resigning Marvin, Bibby and ZA to favorable contracts.
When you add that to the mix I say he has been very good to excellent.
Only rub for me, is not getting something done with Childress.

dap01

September 3rd, 2009
3:59 pm

dos: Sund has done what BK failed to do. Which is finish out a roster with someone other than non-roster invitees.

dos hawkquis

September 3rd, 2009
4:02 pm

DANIEL,

That’s a good point. I had forgotten about that. I, too, was irritated with the Childress thing when he first got here. All that I am saying is that we should be slow heaping praises on Sund due to his 20 year body of work, which is NOT stellar.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer that Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
4:06 pm

Ray, those weren’t my words from the 2:59 post, but what a writer at Slam was posing as an open-ended question. Ariose found the article, I just cut and pasted the words.

Personally, I struggle with that scenario and often come back to the incredibly high turnover rate of coaches in the NBA. Maybe I’m wrong, but it feels like a newly hired coach is more apt to fail than succeed in this league. I do feel like the Hawks were right to blow up the Dikembe/Smitty team at that time. Of course, the execution was horrific (trading Smith for Rider). But that team had clearly run it’s course and the players were mostly on the down-side of their career. (The Shareef/Theo/Big Dog blow-up was a no brainer because that was undoubtedly an under-performing team). I don’t think that would be the case with this nucleus in the next 1-2 seasons. That’s what actually makes it even more risky. Do you risk hiring a Michael Curry who alienates the core of his team and now you’re looking at 3 coaches in 3 years and wasting the prime years of your core? Or do you keep everyone in place considering that both Boston and Cleveland likely have 1 more year before they fall off, so allow organic growth/erosion to elevate you a notch higher?

Most assume that Woody’s replacement will be John Wooden, but the recent hirings across the NBA suggest otherwise. And I can’t say that I know enough about Sund’s personal record of hiring coaches to know if he can find “the next big thing”. I am fairly certain, however, that we will NOT replace Woody with a brand name coach, it will need to be “the next big thing”. Oh yeah and the other question is, can a team expect to achieve true contender status without exceeding the luxury tax threshold? Can a team achieve true contender status without a clear “alpha male” to lead/challenge his teammates? Taking the next step is not strictly about the person wearing the expensive suit on the side lines. This team is missing more than just a “titan of the timeouts”.

dos hawkquis

September 3rd, 2009
4:07 pm

DAP01,

Point well taken. I can’t say anything about that!! You are correct!!

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer that Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends”

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
4:10 pm

In fairness to BK, I think that the payroll has increased a tad bit since he was running things. I guess it’s possible that he preferred to manage a team with a bottom 10 payroll and that ownership kept saying “spend more, spend more” and BK said “no, thanks, I enjoy shopping at The Dollar Store”, but I kind of doubt it. Bottom line, Sund has done more with his available resources than BK did with his available resources. But one was attempting to optimize a Kia while the other is working with a Honda.

Ramon

September 3rd, 2009
4:26 pm

DAP01, I think you fail to realize its the job that BK done that makes Sund’s job so easier. Smith, Collins, nor any known free agent would come here if it wasn’t for the core that BK put together. I find it hard to believe that if given the same chance last year that BK wouldn’t been able to bring Chills back and deepen the bench. Flip and Crawford are the ones that Sund brought in that catches your eye. But Flip’s player rating was actually worse than Speedy’s player rating when he was signed. The same way Orlando’s former GM couldn’t really be blamed for signing Grant Hill, or New York for signing McDyess.

The vision that BK had is being put to use by Sund and it is clearly working. Everyone says Sheldon was a bust, but I don’t know any GM who gets 5 out of 5 when drafting. But he did get 3 out of 4, or 5 out of 8. Sund has drafted over 3 busts, just in one decade. Don’t forget BK was the GM who took the Hawks back to the playoffs. And truthfully if they haven’t been in the playoffs Joe Smith wouldn’t have even considered signing here. And neither would have Evans last year. Even Evans stated that the momentum from the post season run (by the squad BK put together) was part of the deciding factor for him. And although some love Crawford and Flip. Would any of us rather have them than Chills?

Blast

September 3rd, 2009
6:32 pm

Dos Hawquis,

Daniel said it right. You can’t take away Sund’s thunder this off season at all. Not only did he sign his major free agents to recession approved contracts, thereby locking them away for 3-4 years, he got Bibby to take a HUGE paycut and still be happy with the contract he got. Then in some magical way, he PERSUADED Zaza, Bibby and Marvin to make less in 2010, thereby giving Hawks a fighting chance in that upcoming free agency bonanza. Not sure of how many GM’s were able to accomplish that this season.

Make no mistake. The Jamal Crawford trade was major. In a perfect world, if Nellie had been getting on with Jamal, no way in hell will any GM agree to trade away a 20 point scorer for Acie and a gimpy Speedy. I consider that a coup in the line of how Lakers got Paul Gasol for virtually nothing.

In reference to Josh Childress, it is what it is, man. Chillz wanted more money that Sund was willing to pay last year, Actually, Sund’s cost cutting measures started last year when he let Chillz go and he was able to scoop up Mo Evans and Flip. You cannot deny that those two guys had more to do with our 47 win season than only Childress alone could have done. This off-season, nothing could be worked out with Josh, so he returned abroad as I knew he would do right from the start. Next off-season is when I’m looking forward to Josh’s situation playing out one way or the other. We still hold his right, his Greek contract will expire. Now unless the Greek club offer Chillz another monster contract, if he returns to the NBA, look for Sund to get something for him if he does not want to come back to the Hawks.

Then do not discount Sund’s ability to finally bring in two bigs for the veteran’s minimum. Yeah, he might have been scraping the bottom of the barrel with Jason Collins, still he did what us bloggers have been crying for for at least two years. Fortify our skinny frontline. In that vein, Sund has done a masterful job. The icing on the cake will be if he can sign Joe Johnson to an extension this season, and not allow the man to test free agency, where another desperate ball club might offer him a bucketful of cash to jump ship. Sund gets an A in my books.

Go Hawks!

Ariose

September 3rd, 2009
10:38 pm

http://www.nba.com/video/teams/warriors/2009/07/14/SLO9_LawFeature_576.nba/

Acie Law Feature for Warriors…

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
10:45 pm

Astro Joe,

I realize that was an article, and not something you came up with. I thought it was in Dime, not Slam, but I didn’t look closely at the link. The point is legit, but I thought the follow up hypothetical scenarios were a bit contrived. I mean, all the things I came up with are just as likely to happen as what the author suggested.

I had to laugh at the John Wooden reference because you are so right. That IS what a lot of people seem to think. From what I’ve seen (keep in mind, I’ve not been around as long as you have, so this is not a claim to superior experience), GMs seem to have their own type of guy in mind when it comes to coaches. And especially when it comes to a new GM for a team. I didn’t know if Woody was going to be kept around when Sund got here. And believe it or not, I didn’t think that his possible lack of extension would come from his performance. I thought it would be because Sund would do like many GMs do: recreate things “in their own image.” Most guys come in and want to re-lay every position from the front office to the last spot on the coaching staff. And they are especially apt to do so when the coach in place is a guy who isn’t firmly entrenched.

But, either Sund wanted to see for himself what Woody was capable of, or he struck a bargain at the behest of the ASG. Either way, Woody got a 2 year extension, and I’m sure it was made clear to him why.

Here’s my honest opinion in a nutshell on the whole issue. It looks to me like Woody has the best roster he’s had to work with in the ATL yet. I think he’s got enough tools (give or take a minor bench role player or two) to get the job done. I don’t see anything standing in his way. All of our young guys should be able to show some improvement over last year, and we now have quite capable backups at key positions.

In the end, Woody and the team should be able to experience decent expected success this season, unless something catastrophic befalls them (something beyond their control, like a rash of injuries to multiple players).

I don’t see Woody not getting extended because we can’t get past the second round. I don’t see him not getting extended due to win totals, unless we cannot achieve a winning record (42 wins is what it takes to be a “winner”).

I don’t see Woody not getting extended…..unless he fails. And if he fails, and it’s not a catastrophic loss beyond anybody’s control, then that means he simply couldn’t get the job done. I know, I know, it sounds so simple, and there are more complications that can be involved. But that’s the foundation of it, in my mind.

If he “succeeds” but doesn’t get an extension anyway, then it will be for the same reasons I thought he might not get to keep his job when Sund first came here: because Sund has somebody else in mind.

Here’s the key for Sund: if you replace Woody, then he had better have done his homework. Because no matter how it shakes out, the “new guy” is HIS baby, and he will take all the heat for it, and then some. I’ve watched Sund operate for two years now, and nothing about him indicates that he’s willing to “go in another direction” coaching-wise without CAREFUL consideration.

He’s talked to Billy Knight. He knows what happened. He’s got to be smarter than that.

niremetal

September 3rd, 2009
10:53 pm

Signing Jason Collins = great, great move. Sund gets an A+ for the offseason.

Watching the US Open now. Man, this is the first time in 5 years that I’ve had the time to watch the early rounds of a slam. The men’s draw is so deep, it’s crazy. And A-Rod is playing like Federer out there (very smooth, no mistakes). But those women’s matches…man, they need to stop grunting. It’s distracting. And not sexy. In any case, the Open will definitely give me my sports fix until the Hawks’ preseason starts.

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
11:15 pm

Astro Joe,

One more thing on the coaching issue. I think two of the biggest reasons why there is such a high turnover rate in the NBA when it comes to coaches is because of what Chuck Daly said: “It’s a player’s league.”
Fair or not, he’s right. Nobody pays for a ticket or sits in the recliner with the remote, all amped up about seeing the coach. It’s probably the most expendable-yet-highly-visible job in the League.

That was the first reason. The second reason is because GMs like their jobs, and want to keep them. Head Coaches are the easiest to scape goat. And the cheapest. You can always fire a coach or choose not to extend them. You can cut them right loose and get some other guy in there, thinking he just got the opportunity of a lifetime. You won’t likely loose multiple millions. Much easier than trying to figure out an acceptable solution to the Zach Randolphs, Amare Stoudamires, or other hard-to-trade contracts. With those guys, you might have to bite a bullet just to get some relief. And then you get second-guessed to death, or it backfires, the fans miss the player something fierce, etc. But the coach? Oh, the fans will get over it. Especially if he’s never been especially successful.

Phoenix fans might miss D’Antoni for now, but even they will get over it. If they continue to be a fringe 8th seed, then Kerr and the “new guy” Gentry will take the heat, but nobody will say “if only D’Antoni were here”…unless of course the Knicks start beating up on the rest of the East. Don’t hold your breath for too long…..

I mean really, does Bryan Colangelo think that Jay Triano is leaps and bounds better than Sam Mitchell? Then why not give him the same type of roster Mitchell had? Why sign Turkoglu and Jack? Simple: Mitchell was not Colangelo’s man anymore. Triano was.

And so it goes.

As to the two questions at the end of your post: I’m not sure. I think there needs to be a willingness to exceed the luxury threshold when it comes to being a title contender. Without it, you are praying to Lady Luck. And probably not getting an answer.

Can a team achieve true contender status without a clear “alpha male” to lead/challenge his teammates?

I guess it depends on what you define as the alpha male type. I think a team can achieve such status as long as there is at the very least a pair of strong leader types. I don’t mean strong like leader of the rabid wolf pack strong. I mean two guys who are able to lead by example and help motivate and challenge their teammates. Two guys who can go out there and get the job done…and some. Kobe is clearly an alpha guy, but he also has Gasol, who needs no motivation or instruction. Jordan had Pippen, who needed no on-court supervision.

I agree, the next step has nothing to do with the guy in the suit. The next “upgrade” will have to do with a guy or guys wearing jerseys. It’s inevitable, if you ask me. The only questions are who comes, who stays, who goes, and at what price.

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
11:16 pm

What’s funny is Gearon will tell you that they have done everything their GMs suggested. He didn’t say in what context, though.

Astro Joe

September 3rd, 2009
11:25 pm

Ray, yessir, a very complex issue, if the intent is a championship. A little less so if the goal is to operate a profitable business.

bigdave

September 4th, 2009
1:28 am

oh how i always wanted to see A.I. in a hawk uni….

Dean21

September 4th, 2009
3:25 am

DAP01, I think you fail to realize its the job that BK done that makes Sund’s job so easier. Smith, Collins, nor any known free agent would come here if it wasn’t for the core that BK put together. I find it hard to believe that if given the same chance last year that BK wouldn’t been able to bring Chills back and deepen the bench. Flip and Crawford are the ones that Sund brought in that catches your eye. But Flip’s player rating was actually worse than Speedy’s player rating when he was signed. The same way Orlando’s former GM couldn’t really be blamed for signing Grant Hill, or New York for signing McDyess.

The vision that BK had is being put to use by Sund and it is clearly working. Everyone says Sheldon was a bust, but I don’t know any GM who gets 5 out of 5 when drafting. But he did get 3 out of 4, or 5 out of 8. Sund has drafted over 3 busts, just in one decade. Don’t forget BK was the GM who took the Hawks back to the playoffs. And truthfully if they haven’t been in the playoffs Joe Smith wouldn’t have even considered signing here. And neither would have Evans last year. Even Evans stated that the momentum from the post season run (by the squad BK put together) was part of the deciding factor for him. And although some love Crawford and Flip. Would any of us rather have them than Chills?

Guys: I for one am tired of the Chills comments…the man chose to move his game to another league out of the US…He just wasn’t all that..if so, teams would have went after him with $$$ this year. Time to move on from JChille and I think it’s fair to say that each GM is favirable for doing some things (moves) and unfavorable for not doing some things (moves) which now is a mute point…we all know what BK didn’t do which will forever stick out, not draft PG’S when we truly needed to. At this point, it’s time to address this year’s team which is to get deeper into the play-offs and challenge for the title!

What concerns me now is how Woody will use his core players versus the bench unit..He must learn to coach players up by development as well as playing smart on the court. He must teach his team when to run and when to set up as well as play exceptional defense! It’s Woody year to shine or get rained on imo!!

We have to get the Hawks core fan base back and Although I’m a season ticket holder with the Falcons, I do attend a few Hawks games…my plan is to attend even more games this year and I hope most fans come out to root for this team because they will need our support!!!

Dean21

September 4th, 2009
3:30 am

Blast – well said my man, I totally agree!

vava74

September 4th, 2009
7:46 am

Big Ray,

You are on the money most of the way, however, I believe that we have within our roster the tools to build a winning ball club without have to look for that elusive “alpha male”.

The reasons for my view on this subject are simple:

a) there are very few “real” alpha males – Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Duncan – and maybe no one else at this stage. The only “maybe” I am willing to include is Howard.

All the rest are at JJ’s level and he is, by far, one of the best players on that “sub-alpha level” character wise, so I would not be happy if we traded him or let him go.

b) We have tremendous talent within:

- I am convinced that Al will become a force inside, slightly undersized yes, but a force (this doesn’t necessarily mean 25ppg and 15rpg, but that he will be known for his defense and his relentless hustle – also with excellent character);
- I’ve not lost hope in J-Smoove either.
- I’ve great confidence in Marvin becoming a major all round contributor (a Tayshaun Prince with a bit more offensive tools and more physical presence).

c) Only if Teague does not evolve as expected we will have one major need at the point. I think he can be a good inside-outside PG with reasonable play making skills (with JJ on board the PG doesn’t necessarily need to be a tremendous passer).

d) If we expand our offensive repertoire (Woody, its on your court), JJ will have a field day against 95% of the teams and will average 25ppg again, without forcing it.

I believe that we have the potential to win 50-55 games this season and become a 60 win team the following year WITHOUT making any extra moves.

Just on account of roster and Woody’s maturation.

Notwithstanding the above, I will continue to be happy if we win only 44-47 games this season provided that we reach the playoffs less tired and with the bench developed.

dap01

September 4th, 2009
8:03 am

Dean21: I agree. BK did some good things, very good. The point that I was trying to make was that I believe the Sund has done EVERYTHING that he could do this offseason and did it well.

The Truth

September 4th, 2009
8:18 am

The Truth is, what the truth is; sometimes it hurts. After the celebration of signing Jason Collins, it’s the next day hangover.
According to the article, Jason Collins becomes the Mario West at the center position. The only difference is, the vet has a bit more seasoning.

wordsmithtom

September 4th, 2009
8:19 am

Collins is hardly a “beast”, but he has solid defensive fundamentals and playoff experience without being all that old. If he wants to be a teaching pro, then pairing him with Siler and Smith with RandMo could be a way to develop some young talent. Clearly, having Smith and Collins will give the starters some rest which should help come playoff time.

Some here are ready to give up on RandMo. Remember, he’s still young. He can score and is not a small man. With someone to teach him how to use his body, he could become a solid backup power forward.

Looking up on the big man front. Even if RandMo and Siler don’t play out; they’re cheap, and hiring vets above them tells the two of them: “Hey, get moving or get out of the way”. I think having two seasoned vets to mentor them could be a great thing.

I’m not giving up on RandMo. RandMo’s high school class is just now entering the NBA. People gave up on Antoine Carr at 25. Were they ever wrong.

The Truth

September 4th, 2009
8:27 am

wordsmithtom

Great Point!

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
9:18 am

wordsmithton- good points overall, but Randolph Morris will never ever ever be any good in the NBA. He is clearly the worst player on the roster, possibly the worst player with a contract in the league, since Lorenzen Wright doesn’t have a contract. BTW he is older than Dwight Howard, CP3, Josh Smith, etc.. So don’t give me that junk that he is still young. He is basically an above average pick up player.

Astro Joe

September 4th, 2009
9:27 am

I don;t think anyone has the impression that Jason Collins is anything but a nice rotational player with a defensive mindset. I’ve read some bloggers who seemingly are taking shots at him. What did they think, that a player who signs in the 8th week of free agency for a minimum deal is going to give us 20/10? The thing that drives me crazy sometimes is how quickly some forget our history. After 10 years of lottery-land, we act like we should be winning titles. After several years of John Edwards, Este Batista and Lo Wright, we think that we can dismiss a proven team player like Jason Collins or Joe Smith. I don;t get it. I’m thrilled to have Collins on our team and expect that he will be a nice on-court piece for this team. Woody will have the ability to use Zaza when we need a little more offense in the pivot and Collins for defensive purposes. Worried about Bibby and Jamal’s defense? Well having a guy who can move his feet, draw offensive fouls and play the pick and roll is a solid answer to address those weaknesses. While I would have preferred a shot-blocker like Adonal Foyle, I recognize that a big man who moves his feet is general a better team defender than one who can only defend a foot from the rim.

Oh and Im giving up on RandMo… cut him loose and bring in Siler.

vava74

September 4th, 2009
9:34 am

Right on Astro!

Beck

September 4th, 2009
10:08 am

Agreed. Nice post Astro.

macaroni tony

September 4th, 2009
10:16 am

I think that we should give RandMo a little more time. The other guys came straight out of high school, and they played more minutes, so I think that we should give him one more season. Sekou said that the man has been working hard this summer, so let’s see how good he is now with some veteran help.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
10:23 am

macaroni toni- the guys that came right out of high school and played more minutes because they CAN PLAY!!!!
Outside of being 6′11″ and being on a good AAU team 6 years ago what has Randolph done to suggest that he needs more time?
The ONLY reason he is even being considered is because he is already under contract.

The Truth

September 4th, 2009
10:27 am

While I also have addressed numerous times on past blogs about RandMO shortcommings, to constantly ply-on is bit redundant at this point. As I must speak the truth and be fair, I would also say that RandMO situation here as a Hawk was rigged for failure from the beginning. Generally speaking, RandMO mission was to come to Atlanta and get a fresh start. He failed. With absolutely no opportunity to get even garbage minutes, his destiny was set unless there is a change in heart from Woody. It was as if Woody protested Sund picking him up and demonstrated his displeasure by refusing to play him. Whether that was really the case, I don’t know, but during garbage times, action spoke louder that word. It would be unlikely for any player to overcome in that situation.

As I said in past blog, I think RandMO shortcomings are correctable with a patient coach. He is just the opposite of Collins. He has some offense skills but lacks a defense mindset while Collins as a defense mindset but lacks offense skills. The key difference is RandMo is younger. Will he be a NBA success story? I don’t know only time will tell. It all depends on his desire to get better.

Astro Joe

September 4th, 2009
10:58 am

The Truth, I think I know how players (like RandMo) could earn the opportunity to get playing time… I think that it is called practice. I like Zaza but I’m fairly certain that if RandMo were outplaying Zaza in practice, that Woody would have redirected the back-up center minutes to RandMo. I don’t believe that Woody is the lone coach who struggles to find consistent minutes for his 3rd center, especially when his skill set close resembles the 2nd stringer. A center with a decent face-up game, decent low-post moves, decent rebounding skills and doesn’t move his feet nor block shots well enough to make a defensive impact.

Let me ask you this, if you were a Head Coach and your team was improving by 10 games year-over-year, would you just hand over game time to a guy who wasn’t out-playing a teammate at the same position in practice?

vava74

September 4th, 2009
11:27 am

Hey people, the little that I saw about RandMo was absolutely disastrous, HOWEVER (and I don’t want to look like the chronic optimist in the blog – namely, the cheerleading guy as I have been called – it has been well documented that RandMo acknowledged that last year he got overweight on his own fault and failed to grab the opportunity which was given to him.

That acknowledgment should cause, at least, that everyone give him a little bit of slack and stop talking about him here negatively until he proves that he his indeed deserving of all that scorn.

vava74

September 4th, 2009
11:28 am

Right now it looks like everyone is kicking the man down, who is already begging for mercy!!

The Truth

September 4th, 2009
11:32 am

AJ

To answer your question: NO

But for garbage minutes when the outcome of game has been decided: YES

wordsmithtom

September 4th, 2009
11:32 am

Astro Joe, we all know Woodson’s propensity to cut short the playing rotation. He was coaching scared. IMHO

Not saying he SHOULD have played the bigs who didn’t out shine in practice; am saying he DID NOT play his bench and even he admitted come playoff time his men were tired and beaten up.

This year they have 2 fresh experienced men to give minutes. The beaten up part shouldn’t be a problem. And yes, if the young cats can’t push in practice; they ride the pines. No problem with that.

Daniel: you and I will argue till the cows come home on whether RandMo has any talent. He made it to Kentucky. They rarely take untalented prospects. He played well against UNC as a freshman, but has had little burn as a pro. Maybe he can’t cut it at this level. Maybe he just hasn’t gotten the spark he needs to step it up. I don’t know. But, he has skills, and potential. No doubt about that. As a power forward, if he can learn to be more defensive minded, he could be a problem for a lot of backup power forwards. He can shoot; probably better than Josh Smith.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
11:45 am

truth and wordsmithiton- I respenct both of your opinions. Especially since we tend to agree on most things. But, man there is something about Randolph that just makes me angry. It maybe a little irrational, not as bad as Rod is toward Marvin, but its just something about his constantly lost expression, the fact that a marginal player admits to being out of shape, and he seems to have ridden his high school rep this far.

But seriously guys, if Randolph Morris were a free agent would you want the Hawks to sign him?

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
11:49 am

would you rather have Morris taking a bench spot or Hunter or West or Korolev or even Siler?
The Hawks are only going to have one spot for those 4 guys if they keep Morris.
Remember him “riding the pine” means another player doesn’t even make the team.

wordsmithtom

September 4th, 2009
11:54 am

Danial, I suspect you play basketball, and like myself, lack the size, much less the talent to play at this level. To see a kid who HAS the size, and HAS the talent, but who seems not to work hard and seems not focused is enough to make even a saint irritated. No, I wouldn’t sign him; but Sund did, and I respect his eye for big men.
I don’t like to see talent wasted either; and it chaps me off when my nieces and nephews slouch. Could be, however, that RandMo was able to get away without working and when he got to this level, never learned he had to work even harder to match up with the best of the worse at this level. You’re right: this isn’t AAU ball where only a few guys can play. Here, everybody is better than you and I; everybody can bring it.

If Collier/Smith do nothing else; they show RandMo he has to step up, or ride the pines till his contract runs out. It is what it is. He’ll pick it up, or move it somewhere else next year.

But, he’s still young enough to turn it around.

kayo

September 4th, 2009
11:56 am

kayo

September 4th, 2009
11:36 am
i just had 2 comment about the jj debate-i dont understand how you true hawks fans can call yourselves true hawks fans. for one how can you ignore that since the addition of joe johnson that this team is not the laughing stock of the nba anymore. when the hawks were at the bottom of the barrel with the rest of the worst teams in the nba( by the way a lot of them are still there at the bottom) most of you so called true hawks fans weren’t so true anymore. now look at the hawks, 12th in the power rankings, 2 playoff appearences in 2 of the 4 years jj has been here and we are still on the rise as a young team. now if that dont sound better then 29th in the power rankings, 12 year playoff drought, no all-star players, no soldout games. bottom line if joe johnson didnt come to the hawks this more than likely would have been the out come. so just through him away you so called true hawks fans because thats what it sounds like you are doing to me. and by the way i became a hawks fan because of joe.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
12:00 pm

wordsmithatom- are you suggesting that my 5′11″ frame and low post game are not up to snuff? Man, I am hurt… j/k. You are probably right that he rides the pine this year and then out of the league, but I would not mind if the Hawks just ate the 800,000 (easy for me to say I know) and cut him now. If Sund were able to move him, I would declare Sund a genius. It is all a gamble, but sometime you got to know when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em. For me, I say fold ‘em.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
12:04 pm

kayo- glad you are here. I think that the vast majority of the regulars on here very much support Joe and are hoping for him to sign a contract extension. People that argue that Joe is “not a primetime player” and there for shouldn’t get a 70-80 milion dollar extension don’t understand the economics of basketball or Joe’s value.
I think your points about Joe are correct, but I think you are preaching to the choir here.

macaroni tony

September 4th, 2009
12:06 pm

Daniel

I’m going to stick to my guns and say that this will be RandMo best season. But only if Woody give him some burn.

doc

September 4th, 2009
12:23 pm

agreed stro, some will always see this as a failure because we didnt get the likes of shaq, bron, kobe, nash and amare all in the same trade for mo and rand mo. expectations differ, some expect nothing short of winning every game or the championship. me i just want to get into position to make a run for it. stranger things have happened in the nba. oh yeah i forgot refs and the stern effect, got carried away. anywhoo, i like what has ben done and can really say i couldnt have expected even close to what has come forward this off season after the debacle of last year.

randmo is not long for the nba, didnt glanville say something along those lines?

Cowa

September 4th, 2009
12:25 pm

Remember, RandMo has a tradeable $850k salary. He is an asset on the books, and if you (Sund) are thinking about adding a player later in the season, you probably will need assets to get that done. I feel they will keep him, until they feel they need a 3rd PG or can make a bigger deal.

vava74

September 4th, 2009
1:04 pm

Daniel,

First: Cowa is right, in this league, an expiring contract has trade value on its own. Theoretically, you could have a dead and embalmed player under contract at the end of the bench that would still attract trade talk in a package!

Second: If he is under contract and we have to pay his salary anyhow, now that he has changed his habits (eating and probably training) why shouldn’t we have him there?

kayo

September 4th, 2009
1:11 pm

daniel

i just had to get my feet wet first. now about the currrent topic rmorris and jcollins are the same person in different bodies. the only difference is that collins is a veteran in size, by that i mean he was added so that josh, al, and zaza dont have to guard 7′0 centers for 35 mi a game and he could do a slightly better job then rmorris

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
1:14 pm

vava- 1) I am not sure how much of a tradable value his very small contract really is to other teams unless it is in a package that is in NBA money terms very close to begin with. That second round pick from Houston probably has more value. I do understand that it can be packaged. However, the flip side of the argument is that could a player like Hunter or Korolev be more valuable to the team now than the theoretical value of a potential trade? Obviously, this is one of the decisions that Sund will have to make during training camp. We will see. I admit that Morris will most likely be on the roster for those reasons.

2) Because I don’t believe that it will make an iota of difference.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
1:17 pm

kayo- clearly that is also Sund’s and Woodson’s thinking as well. I happen to agree. They think he is 1/2 a million dollars better.
I hope they are right.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
1:20 pm

Certainly the discussion we are having now, will be a central theme during training camp. Nice to have some legit competition for the last bench spots. That fact may point to just how successful this off season has been for Sund.

Astro Joe

September 4th, 2009
3:23 pm

I wonder if fans in other NBA cities sweat this much about their 3rd (or 4th) center.

Team A has an above average bench, a collection of proven vets and young up-and-comers. Team B has a not-so-good bench, a collection of journeymen and undrafted FAs. So here’s the question, should the coach of Team B play his bench as often as the coach of Team A plays his bench? Second question, if the coach of Team B becomes the coach of Team A, would you naturally assume that he would utilize his better bench the same way he utilized his not-so-good bench?

Astro Joe

September 4th, 2009
3:29 pm

Daniel, gosh, I truly hope that we will not be spending hours discussing the last 1-2 roster positions once camp starts. As an example, how much impact did Mario West have on our 47-win season?

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
3:47 pm

Astro- I think it shows that we have a much deeper team. You know we are going to discuss something and make it a big deal. It is what fans like us do. I am saying that it is good that the only real discussion point is who rounds out the bench. Better than freaking out about our lack of starting players and veteran bench players.

niremetal

September 4th, 2009
3:48 pm

To weigh in on this yet again – Morris/Siler will be fighting for the 4th big man spot off the bench. They’re only 9 months apart in age. Not a single NBA team drafted Siler, nor did any of them decide he was worth a contract after the summer league. The most he could manage was a training camp invite (and only from 2-3 out of 30 teams offered him even that, if memory serves). And NBA teams don’t pass up young 6′11 guys with hulking frames lightly.

Since we already have RandMo under contract, I don’t see how it’s worth it to sign Siler too unless Siler REALLY shows something during the preseason. Because the consensus among NBA GMs and scouts certainly appears to be that both guys are scrubs.

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
3:48 pm

The answer is that a good coach plays to his strengths and adjusts his rotation based on player talents.

Mike is back

September 4th, 2009
3:55 pm

Astro Joe and Daniel, it is a lot to dislike about RandMo nonchalant attitude and lethargy…so far he’s been an enigma…I think most of the scorn from Hawks fan goes back to the Boston game when KG dooooooog him…that was ugly…he was never the same after that game. However, KG have done that to plenty of guys…RandMo ain’t the first…it is easy to write him off after that game…but like Solo…I hope he comes back and redeem himself. RandMo may surprise some people…he lost what about thirty pounds…that takes dedication and hard work…he has the offensive skills…if he shows some life and energy on defense…we should keep him and Siler.

Astro, agreed on Collins…if you don’t look at his numbers… it’s a good pick-up. Heck, not even Nire could spend those career numbers into a positive light. Collins spoke of proving leadership and support to the young Bigs…that’s what swayed me…neither he or JoeS are big dunkers which is good…this new crop young Bigs all know how to dunk…its the nuances of playing in the post is where they struggle. I know I scoff at him when his name was first mentioned as a target for the Hawks…but as a mentor, I think Collins could be a great asset to the team. In terms of scoring…still not expecting much…unless I’m mistaking…he shoots free throws about as bad as Shaq and Ben Wallace…OOOOCHA!!…well dam the torpedoes…full steam ahead. Heh heh

Daniel

September 4th, 2009
4:05 pm

niremental- I agree with you, but I think the debate is going to be between 3rd pg, Morris, Hunter, Korolev, West, and maybe Siler for a total of two spots.
As of right now I would take Hunter/Korolev and 3rd pg/West depending on how things play out. Honestly with Smith, Za, Collins on the bench do we need Morris or Siler?

niremetal

September 4th, 2009
4:50 pm

Daniel,

I basically agree. It looks like Korolev is off the radar, since I haven’t seen anything saying that he might be invited to camp (correct me if I’m wrong). Given that, my preference would be to sign Hunter and West. JJ does a lot of the ballhandling as is and Crawford can be our 3rd PG in a pinch. But we don’t have a true backup forward other than Joe Smith, who is not someone I want to see playing minutes at SF. That points to Hunter. I also just want to see West pushing guys in practice, like I’m sure he always does.

niremetal

September 4th, 2009
4:53 pm

PS – Morris is under contract. It’s pointless to cut him as long as we have an open roster spot since we’ll have to pay him anyway. Scrub or no, there’s no sense just throwing money down the drain. Like that crappy wedding gift from your least favorite cousin, you might as well keep him around as long as there’s space in the attic.

O'Brien

September 4th, 2009
7:38 pm

I see Milwaukee signed Ramon Sessions to an offer sheet, 4 years, $16 mil. And Jarret Jack got 5 years, $20 mil. Those are 2 PG I was interested in, and I think $4 mil per year is a good price.

That being said, as long as Teague develops into our starter, I’m good.

Blast

September 4th, 2009
7:56 pm

Can’t believe RandMo is getting so much burn on the blog. Shows how bored we are, and Daniel said it. Hawks must be deep if we are talking about RandMo!

Dude is under contract, period. He got some spot chances last year, and RandMo was most embarrasing indeed. But I’m willing to give the guy a chance, with him losing weight and all. He has another year to show he belongs in the NBA. That he actually wants to play basketball. His destiny is in his own hands.

macaroni tony

September 4th, 2009
10:34 pm

I was on NBA.com and C-Webb gave his fav five for the hawks all time. Who is your fav-five for the hawks all time with a six man.

PG. Mookie
SG. Steve Smith
SF. D. Wilksons
PF. K. Willis
C. Mutombo

Six Man
Joe Johnson

that is my picks who is yours?

cdog

September 4th, 2009
11:00 pm

I AM EXCITED ABOUT THE HAWKS UPCOMING SEASON. THE JOE SMITH AND JASON COLLINS ADDITIONS WILL SHOREUP THE INTERIOR. NOW IF THEY CAN SIGN GARRETT SILLER WE WILL BE SOLID IN THE MIDDLE.SILLER SHOULD BE GIVEN ON THE JOB TRAINING.WITH HIS ADDITION I LIKE OUR CHANCES AGAINST BOSTON, ORLANDO AND CLEVELAND IN THE EAST.

Samuel

September 4th, 2009
11:11 pm

Sorry I can’t get too worked up over signing Jason Collins. I just can’t.

I am really looking forward to the next few years for the Minnesota T Wolves, however.. With their signing of Sessions it gives them a tremendously quick group to implement their new style. Kurt Rambis has gathered a pretty formidable coaching staff in Wohl, Theus and Laimbeer.

“My Boy” Al Jefferson couldn’t ask for better teachers the last few years in McHale and now Laimbeer. If he is fully recovered, he “will” make the AllStar team this year. Write it down.

I can’t believe i’m saying this but i’m actually “Ready for some Football”. Mississippi State finally broke the ice and scheduled another in-state Rivalry in Jackson State. Too bad the SWAC is “bush leagues” right now. I would have liked to see them play against: Sweetness(The Greatest RB of all time), Lem Barney, Robert Brazile(Houston Oilers), Richard Caster(NYJets) and so many more.

The HalfTime contest will be no contest. The Sonic BOOM vs MSU Marching Robots. Don’t make me laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3MFsEzPlFY&feature=related

Anyway, “MY BOY” Chad Bumphis from Tupelo will start at WR as a true Freshman. Fast as a Mutha.

Then you got “MY BOYS” from Oxford CLYDE. Ole Miss in the Top 10. WOW!!!

Let’s do this.

gwite

September 4th, 2009
11:18 pm

O’brien(and all), actually it’s Minnesota that has signed Sessions to the offer. Milwaukee has 7 days to match, but reportedly not likely to do so.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/57295502.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUqPk4DyCc75DiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

niremetal

September 4th, 2009
11:27 pm

Tony,

PG – Doc
SG – Maravich
SF – Wilkins
PF – Pettit (sorry, but Willis? Pettit was the best player of his era. Willis was never even the best player on his team.)
C – Mutombo

Sixth Man – JJ or Sweet Lou

It’s tough to compare across eras unless your talking about truly transcendental talents, though, so I can’t make the call between JJ and Hudson. But the Hawks did have 3 transcendental talents – Pettit, Maravich, and Nique.

Doc edges Mookie at PG, and JJ edges out Lou Hudson for Sixth Man.

I idolized Smitty growing up, but he was not close to the player Maravich was. He was a slightly better defender than JJ but JJ has the clear edge on offense.

Willis and Smitty round out the rotation.

niremetal

September 4th, 2009
11:42 pm

PS – I made this list with a friend awhile back. It’s a proposed list of the greatest players during each period of NBA history.

Joe Fulks (BAA)
George Mikan (to early/mid-50’s)
Bob Pettit (mid 50’s to late 50’s)
Bill Russell (late 50’s to early/mid-60’s)
Oscar Robertson (mid-60’s)
Unclear (late 60’s – Wilt, Oscar, West, and Baylor are all contenders)
Kareem (70’s)
Magic (early-to-mid-80’s)
Michael (mid-80’s to mid-90’s)
Shaq (for the first year or two after Jordan retired)
Duncan (from 2000 until a couple years ago)
Unclear (LeBron and Kobe are the two contenders)

Now, take this all with a grain of salt because I admit it’s impossible to compare PGs to Cs and defensive greats to offensive greats. But I really think that during most of the league’s history, it’s possible to identify a single player who stood out as the league’s best player. It’s certainly tough to argue against Mikan, Pettit, Russell, Kareem, Michael, and Duncan during their respective peaks, I think.

Truth-Serum's only brain cell

September 4th, 2009
11:58 pm

I can’t post as myself anymore. It is boring and to be honest, I don’t make much sense at all. But I just have to make an impact on this blog somehow. Oh I know, I’ll post as Big Ray and act like I’m cutting and pasting my own post from the previous day at a different time. I know that makes no sense whatsoever but that’s exactly why I would do it. Because it makes no sense. Now what should I say? Maybe I will call myself gay. I mean, maybe I’ll pretend to be Big Ray calling himself gay. I feel kind of gay myself. Oops, I better not say that out loud. Did I say that out loud? I hope not. Maybe nobody heard it over the other voices in my head. Wait, can they hear the other voices in my head? I think Ken Strickland can because he keeps talking back to them. I wish they would stop their shouting and give me the keyboard back. I hate when they hog the keyboard.

Okay so the gay accusations are old and I have to come up with something new. I’m sure everybody will believe that this is really Big Ray talking. I sound just like him. Wait does a post on a blog make a sound? What if there is nobody in the forest to hear it, does it still make a sound? Maybe I will ask Just Checking In, he always seems to know. When he checks in that is. He tends to do that unannounced. I hate that. I hate everything. I especially hate haters. I hate hating haters. I hate hating haters that hate hating me. Because I’m a hater. And I can’t stand that either. Got to focus, got to focus, what should I say? Oh I know, I’ll pretend to be Big Ray apologizing to everybody on the blog and especially to my poster of Mike Woodson. I mean to the real Mike Woodson. My poster of him doesn’t read these blogs. I keep it in the inside of my closet so it can’t see the blasphemous things these insolent sinners are posting on here with all of their hate. I hate that stuff. I hate hating that stuff. I hate that people hate that I’m hating their stuff. But not enought to stop hating it. Oh I just post that I can’t sleep at night. I mean, Big Ray can’t sleep at night. Oh forget it, if Big Ray replies I’ll just post as him again and say that I’m gay. I mean he is gay. I’m not. Really. Not really gay, just feeling that way. And I hate that.

Steve

September 5th, 2009
12:27 am

Guys, in case you haven’t noticed we’re going for the jugular this year. Woody, whom Sund has listened too, has got the beef on the bench to play serious deep run into the playoffs basketball. Collins and Smith have some serious experience, and people forget Mo played for the Lakers. The NBA playoffs in the East are all about brute force, and we may have the horses this year – and with Crawford, we may be healthy enough with the athletes not to be so banged up come playoff time – I’m guessing 52 wins, a 4 seed, and a much better 2nd round showing in the playoffs. And if some injury breaks go our way on some of the other teams, who knows….

Steve

September 5th, 2009
12:32 am

Our cap space is at around 67 mil right now – luxury tax line is what 69 mil – I would get Siler and Hunter in here, and save the 15th spot for a PG if needed. Next year, the trick is going to be signing Johnson and Horford with the Cap going down 10-15% – going to be tough.

Ariose

September 5th, 2009
3:17 am

PLZ leave Hunter alone!!! JEEZ!!! Unless he becomes some all-world SF what pourpose does he serve here. 6′8 PF???? Ummm no….give it a rest guys. It’s getting old.

Ariose

September 5th, 2009
3:18 am

….and he’s no brandon bass….

jhan

September 5th, 2009
7:51 am

Samuel – have to agree 100% with your take on “Sweetness”. My favorite running back of all time!

Sautee

September 5th, 2009
9:02 am

Nire,

It’s hard to argue against Bill Russell as greatest of all. Not the most talented, but the greatest.

ELEVEN Championships in his 13 year career. Think that will ever happen again?

Not likely!

KevinA

September 5th, 2009
9:34 am

Courtney Sims is being brought in to try out. There must be some reason. He tore up the D-League last year being named the League MVP.

From Chris Alpert, D-League basketball op’s:

“Courtney is a perfect example of what our league is about.. He has utilized the NBA D-League as an opportunity to develop his skills and as a platform to showcase his ability to NBA teams. It’s nice to see his hard work is paying off and it’s encouraging to see our coaches recognize Courtney’s impact he has on his team’s success. Courtney has demonstrated all season that he is a top NBA prospect and we wish him the best with the New York Knicks.”

Sims And Ahearn Named Co-MVPs As Red Defeats Blue In All-Star Game

Sims, a center on assignment from Phoenix with the Iowa Energy, tallied 15 points, eight rebounds and four blocks for the Red squad.

DES MOINES, Iowa, Dec. 28, 2008 – Courtney Sims erupted for a season-high 36 points and 16 rebounds Sunday as the Iowa Energy rallied for their third straight win, a 107-101 victory over the Utah Flash.

Sims made 13-of-18 shots and 10-of-11 free throws as he surpassed his previous high of 34 in a win at Fort Wayne on December 5. He had seven offensive boards as his total fell one shy of his season high at Sioux Falls on November 28.

Nate ArchiBALL

September 5th, 2009
10:16 am

PG – Pistol Pete Maravich
SG – Lou Hudson
SF – Dominique Wilkins
PF – Bob Pettit /
C – Deke Mutombo
Sixth Man – Eddie Johnson

Second Team
PG – Lenny Wilkins
SG – Joe Johnson
SF – Julius Erving (jumped from the ABA to the Hawks – played in a few exhibition games)
(cant think of anyone else worth mentioning who put on a Hawks uniform)
PF – Dan Roundfield
C – Walt Bellamy
Sixth Man – Steve Smith

niremetal

September 5th, 2009
11:09 am

ArchiBALL,

I definitely think you can mention John Drew at SF. In any case, you can’t count a guy who never played a regular season game for the Hawks!

jerrywest

September 5th, 2009
11:51 am

I don’t like Josh as small forward at all. However, with Joe Smith with his killer mid range jumper playing at Power Forward, I don’t mind Josh getting a few back up Small forward minutes. With Mo, JJ & Josh, I think our back up small forward minutes are well covered.

I don’t like the Bibby+Crawford+JJ playing together as it makes us small in all 5 positions. If Teague isn’t ready or is too small, we will need a big defensive guard to play with JJ+Crawford when we go small. That way crawford could guard the PG and JJ could guard the SF. I don’t like little PGs like Knight. We need a strong minimum wage veteran PG who will shut up and play defense if necessary.

jerrywest

September 5th, 2009
12:51 pm

We have a glaring weakness when JJ+Crawford play at Small forward and Big guard positions.

We need a strong minimum wage veteran PG who will shut up and play defense. This guard won’t need to score or handle the ball much since Crawford+JJ will take care of those and more. Since Crawford rebounds worse than Mugsy Bogues, we need this guard to rebound well. This guard will be left open and he’ll have to attack the rim like a mad man for dunks and rebounds.

Mario has a role next year, more than ever.

ILL-logical

September 5th, 2009
1:28 pm

P-R-E-T-T-Y Good list Nate but..

The only time Dominique gets mentioned before Doc is for most NBA teams played for.
And John Drew does deserve second team for his on the court talents.
Makes me wonder who will join the all time Hawks list from the current crop.

Ken Strickland

September 5th, 2009
1:31 pm

PF-Leonard “TRUCK” Robinson
PG-Lenny Wilkins
C–Zelmo Beatty
SF-Connie Hawkins
SG-JJohnson

BENCH
c–DMutombo
SG-EJohnson
PF-DRoundfield
PG-Doc Rivers
SF-DWilkins

Nate ArchiBALL

September 5th, 2009
2:12 pm

niremetal thanks for mentioning John Drew — a MAJOR over site on my part – Remove Julius Erving and add John Drew.
Ken – I like Zelmo “Big Z” Beaty pick. Reminds of when my dad would take the family to see the Hawks at Alexander Memorial Coliseum. Len “Truck” Robinson was a terror.

richbrave

September 5th, 2009
3:27 pm

doc:

How’s my man? Beat down over the BRAVES. Almost rather be playing for a top five BB draft pick then this on again-off again season they’re serving up. But things are improving. The WIZARDS think they’re all that with ARENAS back, but HAYWOOD’s the key to that team. As he goes so goes their season. I see the HAWKS got JOE SMITH. Nice pick-up. I have no idea about OBERTO for WASHINGTON. Oh, HEYWARD just went to AAA. Probably see him next year in HOT-lanta after the arb clock expires. Peace my man.

Ariose

September 5th, 2009
5:23 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmdu99X2n9s

BTW, I’m offically claiming Jeff Teauge as my Favorite Hawks before anyone else has a chance to… 0_o

just because

September 5th, 2009
6:15 pm

Hunter >>>>>>> Salim

Ramon

September 5th, 2009
8:27 pm

Ariose, Teague just has a confidence about him that shows through all his playing. He shows more emotions than Law. And in a point guard, I think that’s going to be the key to his success with this team. And that last play where he dunked on the FSU defender was just SICK!! Charge or no Charge it was tight

macaroni tony

September 5th, 2009
10:03 pm

Ken,

I can’t believe that you didn’t mentioned D. Wilkinson on your list at all. Even if he wasn’t the greatest, but he’s the all time scoring list for the Hawks. But everyone has their list.

Samuel

September 5th, 2009
10:09 pm

Shows how much Ken knows about basketball.

niremetal

September 5th, 2009
11:59 pm

I gotta think Ken was being sarcastic placing Hawkins there. He played one mediocre season on a bad Hawks team and didn’t even play SF at all.

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
12:01 am

The inclusion of Robinson (same deal) over Pettit make me think the same.

Truth Serum

September 6th, 2009
12:18 am

I am gay. I really like Mike Woodson.

Signed BIG RAY

…..oh crap, did I post as myself? Dammit! I know, I will post as JC next time just to throw everybody off.

Ken Strickland

September 6th, 2009
12:18 am

MACARONI TONEY-I’m old enough to have seen the Hawk(Connie Hawkins)play and he was a far better all around basketball player than Dominique Wilkins, no comparison. Dominique was a more prolific scorer, but he didn’t have the versatility, skill set or overall impact that Connie Hawkins had. Hawkins played SF, PF and C, while Nique could only play SF. I did list Nique as my SF off the bench.

SAMUEL-it’s a shame how often you make comments that demonstrate your utter basketball ignorance. It’s obvious you know nothing about the great Connie Hawkins, who’s one of the NBA’s 50 greatest players. How utterly stupid are you to criticizing me, the one who knows of his greatness, while you, the idiot doing the criticizing, obvously knows absolutely nothing? HOW STUPID IS THAT?

BIG RAY-personally, I believe TRUTHSERUM posted under your name because he thought it would make him appear more intelligent. You can’t blame the fool for trying, because as you can see, he’s desperate enough to try it BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Just Checking In

September 6th, 2009
12:23 am

Hello everybody, my name is Truth serum and I am new here. I have a verse from the Koran for you all to memorize. I mean, from the book of Mormon. No wait a minute its from the Bible I think. Or I might have read it in the back of Cosmopolitan or Time magazine. Oh who cares its a verse and even though I will write it backwards or something equally retarded I know the truth of its meaning even if all of you haters don’t. Prepare for the wrath of Truth serum is about to rain down on all white people and all of those suspected as being white. By the way, my real name is Wang for short. And I do mean short. As in short Wang.

Wang aka truth serum

September 6th, 2009
12:30 am

Hello everybody, my name is Wang. I go by the name of truth serum.

Hello Wang.

I hate white people.

Wang, the anger management and racist classes are down the hall. The people in this class only have problems with drugs and aren’t nearly as messed up as you are.

Oh sorry. I guess I will go down the hall then. See you uncle toms later. By the way, I am a closet gay too.

We don’t have a class for that, Wang. Good luck with that though.

JSS

September 6th, 2009
12:42 am

Nire…
Why isn’t Earl “The Pearl” on your late 60’s list? There wasn’t a human on this planet who could stop him from 69-72?

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
1:11 am

JSS,

Simple. Earl neither put up the stats that Oscar (the other combo guard) did nor did he sniff a title before Alcindor/Jabbar came into the league, and the moment that Alcindor was drafted, he was instantly the NBA’s best player by virtually any measure. Also, Earl was a whirling dervish as a scorer, but he was not a distributor and he was average at best on defense. He was a great player, but I don’t see him as part of the discussion for “best player” at any point in his career. I’d rank him 6th at best during the years you mentioned behind Wilt/Baylor/West/Oscar plus Willis Reed. Frankly, I’m not even sure that Monroe was the best player on his team during that period – I think you have to consider Unseld for that honor.

Ed

September 6th, 2009
2:13 am

There’s now way Deke is first string ahead of Walt Bellamy

Bellamy had a stellar 14 year career in the NBA and was the NBA first overall draft pick in 1961. Bellamy was named the NBA Rookie of the Year in 1962 after having arguably one of the three greatest rookie seasons in NBA history (along with Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson). His 31.6 point per game average that season is second all-time for a rookie to Wilt Chamberlain’s 37.6, and the 19.0 rebounds per game he averaged that season is third best all-time for a rookie (to Chamberlain and Bill Russell). Bellamy also led the NBA in field goal percentage in his rookie season, and had a 23 point 17 rebound performance in the 1962 NBA All-Star Game.

Due to trade scheduling skews during the 1968-69 season, Bellamy set the still-standing record for NBA games played in a single season with 88.

Bellamy ended his NBA career with 20,941 points and 14,241 rebounds. Bellamy was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1993

Ed

September 6th, 2009
2:17 am

That was from Wikipedia btw…

Petit
Bellamy
Wilkens
Hudson
Maravich

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
3:20 am

No doubt Bellamy was a great player. Just not while he was with the Hawks.

If we’re gonna count guys like Bellamy, Hawkins, etc, it’s a useless exercise. If we’re using lax standards like that, I want to throw guys like Moses Malone in. Heck, why not toss in Rasheed, Pau, and Dr. J?

Samuel

September 6th, 2009
5:40 am

See what I mean. Guy is serious. D Wilkins is considered by most “who know basketball” as on of the best Fowards of all time but can even make the “Lowly” hawks All Time first team. WOW

macaroni tony

September 6th, 2009
6:21 am

Ken,

I don’t care how old that you are when it comes to sport age doesn’t matters. DW should have been on the top 50 players and most of players agreed. He is still top 10 scoring of all time, and if the Hawks wouldn’t have traded him he would have been better scoring average. But If you put CH thing like I’ve said it’s your show.

Clyde

September 6th, 2009
7:19 am

ROLL TIDE CLYDE IS BACK

Since the Hawks didn’t make the right moves to compete for a championship, I’ll just depend on Alabama to give me a championship.

Its been a long time since yall heard this but…..

FIRE WOODY

ajw

September 6th, 2009
9:35 am

Sounds like Joe to me.

undisputed champ!

September 6th, 2009
9:38 am

Clyde

We hear it every day from Ken, and Ray. Dumb and Dumber. Its difficult to get any traction going about the hawks because of the negatism and child like behavior of these guys.

I agree the hawks did not make the right moves. They needed a center who could score and defend the middle. They needed to sign flip and use the money they gave to zaza and crawford to go after a center. Steward is a decent pickup and should have been picked up in place of zaza the 6 million dollar 3 in verticle leap. Not very rational decisions. Its about time for the imfamous bubba crew to call for woody head.

undisputed champ!

September 6th, 2009
9:41 am

Check that collins is a decent pick up for the price. Its what Zaza is worth.

Stating the Obvious

September 6th, 2009
10:02 am

Undisputed champ of the idiots,

Congrats. You win the “idiotic posts of the week” award. It’s quite an honor. SamRod and Clyde had won the award for about 30 weeks running.

Ken Strickland

September 6th, 2009
10:24 am

MACARONI TONEY-when it comes to selecting the best players in Hawks history, knowing and having seen most of the players that’s played for the team REALLY DOES MATTER, regardless of what you might think. I agree that Nique should have been included in the top 50 greatest players, but Connie Hawkins was a better overall player.

He had a better career average in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, plus he was a better DEF player than Nique. You’re obviously going by what you know, but unfortunately, you obviously know only half the story.

Ramon

September 6th, 2009
10:52 am

Undisputed how many centers in the league are there that can score and defend the middle, as well as stay healthy long enough to do it? My guess is there are under 9. And how many of those do you think were available this summer? I’m guessing zero. By the way, the Bulls had Longley who couldn’t score nor defend. The Nets had Collins and made it to the finals. Also, in this offense you don’t need a center who can score because he won’t get many opportunities. I bet you this season Horford is in the top 10 in points and rebound for scoring.

Billy Knuckleball

September 6th, 2009
11:06 am

Billy Knight- where are you? Oh…..I see…..still out of work cause NBA realizes what a BUMBLING IDIOT you are. Hawks would be two years ahead of where they are today without your incompetence. Good riddance old fool!

gwite

September 6th, 2009
11:16 am

Gee, how ironic that all 5 starters and the coach are “still” BK hires. Couldn’t be that bad.

Sautee

September 6th, 2009
11:43 am

undisputed champ, among many other names,

Funny how you go after anyone who disagrees with Woody but you ALSO hate on Zaza who Woody wanted back. That’s right Woody said he wanted all top 8 back, that includes Zaza.

Whassup wit dat? Is Woody’s word not good enough for you?

Do you suddenly not trust your boy? (who, by the way, is VERY happy to have Al Horford at Center).

So is Woody wrong?

Ken Strickland

September 6th, 2009
12:01 pm

SAMUEL-Dominique was definitely one of the most exciting scoring SF’s in NBA history. He definitely isn’t considered one of the better passing, ballhandling and DEF SF’s. Connie Hawkins excelled in those areas.

ILL-logical

September 6th, 2009
12:46 pm

Prehaps one of the difficulties in compiling a lists of “Bests” that involve coparing players of different eras is the understanding the role that the media and its primary revenue base,advertising, has had on sports.

Imagine if you will, Oscar Robertson’s skill being displayed before a global marketplace like Michael Jordon’s. Or , LaBron James skills being confined to a viewing audience of late night folks eager to see replays since in the 1960’s very few games were brodcast and fewer still in prime time.

How about the contracts of yesteryear versus the endorsement revenue enjoyed by the media dubbed superstars of today. The Michaels,Kobess and LaBrons of today exceed ther multi-million dollar salaries by a factor of 2-3 times with their endorsment dollars annually!

My point is that while superior skills shine through to any era, it is still difficult to measure what impact market forces had on a player becoming a “star”. Therefore it is left up to us to decide whether or not their abilities truly are/where comensurate with the hype.

BOB WEISS

September 6th, 2009
1:08 pm

Bob Weiss

September 4th, 2009
5:51 pm
Bob Weiss

September 3rd, 2009
7:10 pm
Ken, Ray, Help me get my job back.

Big Ray

September 3rd, 2009
10:23 pm
Bob Weiss,

Sorry, no can do. But you can contact Truth Serum. He might be able to help. But don’t tell him you’re white. You might get gibbered at, then chased around the yard with a sharp stick.

Look smart alec, I understand that you are a fake black man who pimps racism to get your jolly on. Im white and I know that counts for something with you. I just want my job back. Keep up the hate on Coach Woodson and then when guys like Mike Vick or O J ask you who do you think should be the coach you plug and play my name see. Its a complicated scheme that can be between you and me see…

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
1:18 pm

But Ken, come on. We’re talking about the Hawks’ all time team. I mean, would you put John Smoltz on the Red Sox’s all-time team? Or Greg Maddux on the Dodgers’? Or Brett Favre on the Jets’? Or Karl Malone on the Lakers’? Hawkins played one mediocre season on bad Hawks team.

UNDISPUTED CHAMP

September 6th, 2009
1:49 pm

Sautee

September 6th, 2009
11:43 am

Just for the record I did reply to your previous comments and challenges, however the bubba crew ran interference and my responses were disallowed.

I can see how you make that conclusion. I admit that im very adamant that Zaza is not very athletic and has a 3 in vertical leap. Thats true. I rarely miss an opportunity to mention that the 6 million per year he got could be better spent and more resourcefully. I see your point.

Id like to think that my expose’ is different than that given by, Ken and Ray for a few VALID reasons.

1.When Woody was given charge of the Hawks it was an accepted fact the hawks would rebuild after Nique and go with Draftees and young players.

ZaZa was brought here to be a foundation piece as a STARTING CENTER.

2. The youngest team in pro basketball Woody’s first 2 years and became the 4 and subsequent 6 youngest in his third year and last year respectively.

After subpar years Zaza was reduced to limited minutes off the bench. Hand it not been for the one episode when he got in Kevin Garnett face Zaza would have had an uneventful playoff.

3 Woodson had done nothing but win after three years of developing this core of players(exclude JJ) while being handicapped for lack of a center.

Zaza became Koncak and Woodson was force to spend his powerforward at the center post, an unnatural position for him that almost led to a career threating injury in the playoffs last year. Horford is not nor will ever be a center. Hell always be a pf masquerading as a center.

4. I remember my first season watch Woodson Coach the Hawks and I thought too, that he did not have a clue. Over time he has prove to me that hes the man for the job. The hawks steady climb, the team unity, how he handles the negative press,the way the city supports them,(minus ken,ray and the bubba posse)He doesnt let roster handicaps stop him for putting his best forward. There are VERY FEW GAMES THAT THE HAWKS ARENT IN AND HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN!

Zaza on the other hand has had the minutes and support to take his game to a higher level. Going into this year he was the truest center this team had. Zaza to me is a burst. Thats my opinion. Center is the most important piece of the puzzle. Once upon a time the league MVP went to a center 23 out of 24 times. Im sure there is an exception somewhere, but 99.9 percent of the time you can win an NBA title with out one.

So my critisism of Koncak(zaza)is not personal. He fine for a backup. But so is Collins and hes alot cheaper.Its strickly a scouting report. I dont play favorites as much as I study results. With Woodson, im not trying to fix what aint broken.

I dont have a personal campaign of hate against Zaza. Hes comfortable with being a back up although the orignal expectations for him were higher. Woodson on the other hand has earned his keep. Every barometer that we set for him each season hes reached. There are many professional analysts who such as Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Organizations like Espn and TnT have sang his praises. Like it or not to be ranked number 9 in the coach of the year poll is an accomplishment. Again, I aint trying to fix what aint broken.

UNDISPUTED CHAMP

September 6th, 2009
2:00 pm

Ramon

September 6th, 2009
10:52 am

I understand your philosophy. I see how you approach being a GM and coach. I agree wtih you first statement (well almost) there are only a few good centers in the nba. As for availability, Ive seen to many good GMs make trades and flex the maket. What you should consider is there are few good GMs now-a-days.There was a time when a good GM would target a player, go after him and bang! make it happen. The Hawks have enough talent and had before ZaZa and Crawford enoungh cash and a draft pick to go after say…a lopez. Real GMs are powerbrokers.

As you and Sautee are pointing out, we have a powerforward who is equal to many centers in a weak leaque.I agree. I just dont believe that a powerforward (no matter how you list him) will be able to take us to the next level. He does not have the talent thats needed in the 5 spot. For the record, I like Horford. Hes a solid power forward and can give you 10-15 minutes at the post.

jerrywest

September 6th, 2009
2:38 pm

Nire – That was slam dunk logic.

undisputed champ

September 6th, 2009
2:59 pm

but 99.9 percent of the time you CANT win an NBA title with out one.

ant banks

September 6th, 2009
3:12 pm

i don’t like opinion polls like the NBA TOP 50 PLAYERS, unless you are goin’ to redo it every year. the original top 50 list came out in ‘97, right? kobe’s name should be on that list now, along with d howard, d wade, lebron. time for them to update that NBA TOP 50!!

you can’t put out a list like this and not update it once in awhile

Ken Strickland

September 6th, 2009
3:33 pm

NIREMETAL-dam good point. In that case I’ll have to go with Nique. I guess that means I also have to remove Lenny Wilkins from my list as well. After all, he was traded after leaving St Louis to Seattle without ever actually playing in Atlanta.

Ken Strickland

September 6th, 2009
3:57 pm

How high did outstanding rebounders and defenders like Bill Lambeer, Rick Mahorn, Charles Oakley, Wes Unseld, Paul Silas, Deke Mutombo, Mark Eaton, Moses Malone and Jeff Ruland jump? Using jumping ability as the definitive measure of a players ability is utterly stupid, as these names prove.

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
4:14 pm

Ken,

Lenny Wilkens is definitely a legit contender – the St. Louis Hawks are still the Hawks. I just think Wilkens wasn’t as good a PG during his years in a Hawks uni as Doc was during his. The Hawks were a middling team during Lenny’s era despite having some pretty decent collections of talent. Doc was the PG for a perennial 50-win team.

It’s always funny to me that people point to the Nique trade as the point that the Hawks turned south, but really their turn for the worse came when Doc started slowing down – I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Hawks’ fall in the standings coincided with Doc’s injury in ‘90 and the fact that he became more of a jump shooter than a drive-and-dish player thereafter. The Hawks were 17-11 when Doc got hurt that year; they went 24-30 the rest of the way, and slipped down below 50 wins for the next four straight seasons, after they had won 50 games for four straight seasons (and were on pace for a fifth) before that.

terrell barron

September 6th, 2009
4:22 pm

“There are very few games in which the Hawks aren’t in or have a chance to win”???? There was at least 20 just last year. I remember because I would always turn the tv mid 3rd quarter. Not hatin on your boy Woody, just sayin.

Big Ray

September 6th, 2009
4:51 pm

Ant Banks has a point. Those Top 50 lists should probably change every few/several years. A guy like Kobe definitely contends for a spot, though he’s not finished playing yet. Conversely, what about a guy like Allen Iverson? He certainly looked like he’d make that list at some point.

Sautee,

Good point. Woody wanted all of those guys back. And unless I missed something, Zaza had a good season this last time around. He’s also our best offensive rebounder. I recall you saying that it would be interesting to see how Woody doles out the minutes between Zaza, Collins, and Smith. Let’s be honest, Smith is more or less a power forward, but he could conceivably play some minutes at center.

Undisputed Champ (truth serum) ,

I don’t think Zaza is a disappointment at all. When he was brought over, it was done fairly cheaply. I don’t agree that he was brought over to be THE starting center. We needed a true center who could help out in the paint. Kevin Willis was done, and others from the ‘04-’05 squad weren’t much good for anything (Jelanie McCoy, Michael Stewart, Pedrag Drobnjak, Obinna Ekezie). The following year, Jason Collier passed away (RIP), and the only other “big men” on the squad were the horrible John Edwards and Esteban Batista.

Zaza was a stop-gap. A guy who Billy Knight knew could play center, but was young and still unproven either way. Pachulia could start for us, but I doubt he was seen as the future. We just needed somebody who had a chance to be halfway decent in that spot. Remember, he came from Milwaukee, where he only started 4 games (in 2004-2005). The guy who started in front of him? Dan Gadzuric. Milwaukee didn’t even care to sign Zaza back, if that tells you anything. And it’s not like Gadzuric was blowing anybody away, either. Dude played 22 minutes a game and averaged 7 points and 8 rebounds per. Not bad numbers at all, but there was a reason he didn’t average more minute, and Zaza was getting just under 18 mpg: because guys like Joe Smith (31 mpg) and Zendan Hamilton were also seeing minutes at the pivot, along with Calvin Booth and Daniel Santiago.

Sorry, but you don’t sign away a team’s backup center to be your starter for the next several years. You sign him because you’re desperate for a big man with some modicum of ability and you’re really building your roster on a pile of talented forwards. If you ask me, Zaza did exactly what he was signed to do: fill the gap.

I’ll agree that he struggled for a year or so. But he came back strong at the end of the ‘08 season in the playoffs (as you said), and had a damn good year this past year, filling his role quite well. I don’t think he’s a bust at all. I think perhaps some expectations for him were misplaced.

As for Horford, I think that argument has gone on since he got here. Many agree here that Horford would look better at power forward, but that he’s also the best center we have right now. Trust me, I understand your obsession with Lopez, but we never did have the assets to go after him. No team gives up on a rookie true center who is still in his rookie contract. If Lopez is such a solid center (and he is), then why would New Jersey let him go? If you can come up with a good offer of who to give up for him (and how much cash), then I’d suggest you call Rick Sund and tell him how to do it. Also, if that’s such a bright idea, then how come no other GMs who could use a big 7-foot center , haven’t done it? I’ll tell you why: no way is Jersey giving him up. I wouldn’t either.

I understand what you’re saying about Horford not being the guy to lead us to championships while playing center. Consider something. The guy who picked him didn’t intend that. No, Billy Knight built this team on forwards. He never once really picked a center, even though Horford became one out of necessity. Shelden was never going to be one. If we’re going to be mad about not having a true starting center, we can start with Billy Knight, who never went after one the whole time he was here. And the fact is, we spent more money on guards then we did anything else. It seems to me that we traded away two first round draft picks and a young forward for Joe Johnson, and we even signed him for $70 million. THAT is who is supposed to be leading us to a championship. THAT is who Woody’s entire offense is centered around. THAT is the guy. The fact that Horford is forced to play center is not his fault. It’s not Woody’s fault either.

Also, we did not have this so-called cash to just go after some good center. We managed to offload Speedy and Acie for Crawford. We didn’t just up and throw $9.6 million out there for Crawford. Between the two, we were paying Speedy and Acie over $8 million a year, and we traded them for Crawford, who is making over $9 million. Essentially, we’re paying Crawford $1 million or so more a year than we were two guys who we weren’t getting much out of. Speedy couldn’t get into uniform. Acie could from time to time, but didn’t get much burn once Bibby was here.

Now, if you can tell me which team would be dumb enough to take both those guys for a starting center, then I’m all ears. I can’t think of even one. And I think that there are the same number of good GMs today as there were several years ago. There can only be so many at one time. Not everybody can have what they want, or make it all just “happen.” Such is life. There’s always a winner and a loser, and not everything works out just the way people want it to.

I agree that Collins was cheaper than Zaza, but there’s always a reason for that. He’s also never put up the kind of stats that Zaza has, even given starter’s minutes in New Jersey. The man’s best year has been 6.4 points and 6.1 rebounds per game, and that was with 32 minutes per game. He also shot 41 percent from the field, which was just awful (and is his career shooting percentage) , and he’s foul prone. He’s averaged more than 3 fouls per game for his career. The two years Zaza had those kinds of minutes, he shot a good bit better and averaged 12 points and 8 rebounds one year, and 12 and 7 the next, with fewer fouls.

Not hating on Collins, I’m glad he’s here. But those are the stats the scouting report comes up with….

Finally, how long are you going to stick with your bubba crew stuff? What is your obsession with that? And there isn’t a person who can’t tell the difference between me posting, and you posting as me. Nothing you say will change the darkness of my skin, hate to disappoint you. I don’t know in how many posts over the years, I’ve mentioned that I don’t hate Mike Woodson. And I’m not the one saying he should be fired. You must have me confused with Clyde. I’ve lost count with the number of times I’ve said I expect him to do just fine this year. The only thing I’ve disagreed with lately is the idea of extending him RIGHT NOW. I don’t see the harm in letting him finish out his contract, but it’s just an opinion. I don’t agree with a lot of the things Woody has done, or some of the things he has said. Guess what? I feel the same way about Josh Smith, and if you know anything about me at all, you know I’m one of his biggest fans on this blog. So the racist stuff makes no sense whatsoever. But hey, I can’t change your mind anymore than you can change the color of my skin. So if you choose to continue this path, then so be it. It isn’t reality. It’s just how you choose to see things.

Later.

richbrave

September 6th, 2009
6:39 pm

BIG RAY:

Still fighting the good fight against the mindlessness of bigotry? Sorry to see it’s still a necessity. With the exception of RICHMOND CITY, up this way, the local suburban school districts have all decided not to air the presidents talk to school children live. It’ll be censored for “political content” then released as the districts see fit. Don’t remember any such problems when RONALD REAGAN and GEORGE W. BUSH did that.

Of course this has nothing to do with basketball. The WIZ fans are all agog over AGENT ZERO’s return. According to most posters on the D.C. blogs, the HAWKS may as well accept eighth place again because the misanthropes from WASHINGTON are taking back what’s rightfully theirs, 4th place.

richbrave

September 6th, 2009
6:43 pm

doc, KEN STRICKLAND, BIG RAY:

I’ll be in attendance at VCU for some of the WIZARDS training camp games. Will provide full details. I’m looking forward to seeing how JaVARIS comports himself with GA back and MILLER and FOYE in the fold.

vava74

September 6th, 2009
7:50 pm

richbrave,

Is that a fact? what a disgrace!

All that conversation about socialism to scare people off is so idiotic… unbelievable. Obama, like any Democrat would be considered far-right in most of Western Europe!

vava74

September 6th, 2009
8:10 pm

If you want a scouting report, Al Horford finished the FIBA tournament with:

G8 Min265 MPG 33,13 FGM/A 47/88 FG%53,4 FTM/A18/26 FT%69,2 OR33 DR49 TotReb 82 RPG10,2 ASS22 APG 2,7 PF27 To13 St9 BS8 Pts 112 PPG 14

Sautee

September 6th, 2009
8:14 pm

undisputed champ (and all the other names),

You said this: “Horford is not nor will ever be a center. Hell always be a pf masquerading as a center.”

Maybe you missed this a few blogs ago, so here you go:

truth-serum,

You said this: “As it was last year so it will be this year… with out a center the Hawks arent going to the finals.”

Hey truth-serum (or should I say undisputed champ?),

We actually have a Center. His name is Al Horford and here’s how he ranked last year in some stat categories for Centers:

Scoring: 19th – despite the fact that he shot the fewest attempts of any starter.

Rebound: 8th – better than Shaq, Pryzbilla, Perkins, and LOPEZ. You know, players who LOOK more like a center than Al.

Blocks: 16th – better than Noah, Chandler, Nene and Dampier – you know, “defensive stoppers”

Assists: 2nd – better than all but Brad Miller

Efficiency: 8th

Dbl-dbl: 9th – and after the All-Star break, he was THIRD behind DHoward and Yao. So much for getting worn down.

Steals: 9th

AST /TO: 5th

Gee, looks to me like he was in the top ten in most categories. And just 23 years old and in his second year. No wonder Woody loves him playing Center.

Yes, we HAVE a Center. Even if he has a PF body. I’ll take THAT kind of masquerade any day.

I’m not saying we’re going to the Finals, but we indeed have a Center, even if you would rather have him at back-up PF

And, once again Woody LOVES Horford as his center. Don’t you trust your boy?

richbrave

September 6th, 2009
8:16 pm

Well I’m not scared, are you?

Sautee

September 6th, 2009
8:45 pm

undisputed champ,

You also said this about Woodson: “There are many professional analysts who such as Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Organizations like Espn and TnT have sang his praises.”

Maybe they said he overall did a good job BUT, they also excoriated the Hawks for their lack of offense repeatedly (Kenny and Charles, I mean). They actually were ridiculing our lack of offense. I was embarrassed, but had to admit they were correct.

You also said this: “but 99.9 percent of the time you CANT win an NBA title with out one.”

I’ll call you on that one. The Spurs have won four championships in the last 10 years, and only ONE of the 4 teams had a dominant center, David Robinson. The OTHER 3 teams had Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed and either Elson or Oberto. I’ll take Horford over ANY of those except the Admiral. Even in a masquerade.

3 out of 10 looks like maybe 70% instead of 99.9%. At least for this past decade.

Big Ray

September 6th, 2009
9:02 pm

Sautee,

Good point, as Tim Duncan has been playing PF his entire career. That an I’d argue that the Pistons had two power forwards in their starting lineup, and no real center.

Big Ray

September 6th, 2009
9:11 pm

RichBrave,

What’s good, my man?

Yes, unfortunately fighting the good fight never ends. As for Obama, like you…I’m not going to get into it here, as this is a basketball blog. All I can say is that while I think he knew that this new path wouldn’t be easy, there’s no way he could see certain things coming. And you’re right, this apparent “censorship” isn’t something that ever happened with Bush, Reagan, Clinton, and you can go back as far as you want. Of course, there are some fundamental differences in what was being said then, and what is being said now, but enough of all of that.

If ever Javaris Crittenton thought he had his work cut out for him, it’s now. Dude seems to get thrust into one up-hill situation after another. No matter where he goes, he ends up with a whole stable full of guards who are either already established, or otherwise expected to establish themselves. He always seems to be the odd man out. We’ll see what happens.

Let us know how it goes!

Ariose

September 6th, 2009
10:03 pm

JJ’s agent died apparently?? Jeff Wernick??

Ariose

September 6th, 2009
10:15 pm

Maybe he’s like a marketing agent? B/C Arn Tellem is his NBA agent….

Big Ray

September 6th, 2009
10:16 pm

Who knows, although I was about to say that maybe this explained JJ’s silence on the contract extension….

niremetal

September 6th, 2009
10:17 pm

Sautee,

You know I’m not ever one to agree with that guy, BUT…

Ever since Robinson started slowing down, Tim Duncan basically has played the exact same role that is normally assigned to the center on most teams – he gets the most low post touches, is assigned to the opposing team’s best post player, and patrols the lane when necessary. With a “power forward” like that, you can afford to have Bonner, Oberto, Kurt Thomas, or Drew Gooden playing “center.” And I’d argue that there isn’t much basis for labeling Duncan the “power forward” instead of the center when guys like that are on the floor (which, again, has been most of the time since The Admiral got moved off the front lines).

What IS a good point, however, is that you don’t need a dominant “center” to win a title. What you do need is a game-altering defensive presence down low, be it a PF (like Grant, Rodman, or KG), a C (like Hakeem, Shaq, or The Admiral), or a PF/C (like Duncan or the Wallaces). But really, it doesn’t matter what positional label you give him as long as he gets the job done. And Al Horford sure as hell gets the job done.

And now, I’m gonna go cheer for Taylor Dent.

Ariose

September 6th, 2009
11:02 pm

LOL@ Ray hehehe!!!

Ariose

September 6th, 2009
11:06 pm

….I was thinking the same thing….I can’t even lie.

Ariose

September 6th, 2009
11:26 pm

http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-nfl/20090906/Merriman.Arrested/

Must be all the ‘Roids he’s on…yup that’ll do that to ya

Samuel

September 6th, 2009
11:55 pm

Clyde,

Got to give it to “Yo Boys”, the Tide looked dam good. VT did too. Id like to see them play Bama with their best player though. Any way, I can’t take nothing away from the Tide, they look as good as anybody I saw this weekend. They still got to come through OXford though.

“My Boy” Chad Bumphis scored a TD on his first career reception. Not bad even if it was against Jackson State. He’s gonna be a good one.

Clyde, Ya Boy Ken is smoking some good stuff. Did you hook him up with some of that RIO bud?

You can add Connie Hawkins and whoever else you want. D Wilkins is the best player to ever “step between a jock” in Atlanta. It aint even close.

Mystikal

September 7th, 2009
12:01 am

Just checked out the hawks schedule, I have them going:

24-18 on road
26-15 at home

It wasn’t by design, but it does put them at 50 wins. I do believe they will be comparable to last year and maybe slightly better. Will this get them a top 3 seed, that’s a different conversation.

Big Ray

September 7th, 2009
12:01 am

Ariose,

All I can say is “another one bites the dust.” Eh, the whole case won’t last long, I figure. And dude won’t lose as much as Chris Brown has, hah! Now what’s HIS excuse? Can’t be ‘roids…

E43

September 7th, 2009
12:03 am

i cant wait for the season. all the new faces and weapons to utilize… it will be crazy im sure joe johnson will be glad to come back, the hawks did everything he asked for and still let him be “THE MAN.”

Big Ray

September 7th, 2009
12:04 am

Mystikal,

A dead-even road record would be an improvment over what we had last year. A better than .500 road record is even better. The question is, is it worth the expense of a few more home losses, or should we look to at least hold serve (do as well as we did last year) at home, and then improve the road record by a few?

Mystikal

September 7th, 2009
12:11 am

I feel you Ray, but bigger than that may be their record vs other playoff teams? That could give a better indicator of how well they will fair in the 2nd rd matchup. Enough to make series intersting, perhaps?

The Flash

September 7th, 2009
12:19 am

Old home week. Thinking man, doc, Astro, and da man hisownself, Ando, and now me. I like Joe Smith alot and I like Collins. I can see an interior passing game with any number of combinations on the court that can hurt people off of all types of short shots, even little baseline 10-12 footers. I also like Teague alot, an awful lot. With Crawford, if I’m management, I lock Herb in a room with a lot of coffee for a couple of weeks, maybe with Drew for a while as well. If they don’t kill one onother, and keep it simple, could be some interesting half court offense.

Defense can present in any number of ways too, and I rhink can produce some easy baskets and make this team much more formidable when offense stalls.

Now, if JJ just doesn’t hold onto so often and so long.

Big Ray

September 7th, 2009
1:15 am

Mystikal,

Agreed. We need to do two things: stop playing down to teams that we can/should be able to beat, and get after playoff teams a lot harder. I think winning more on the road is a big key to how you do in the playoffs. And finding the winning formulas against playoff teams is key, too.

Flash,

Good to see you around, bro’. I am excited about the idea of seeing Teague play. I’ll temper such excitement for obvious reasons (he’s a rook, and we have a few good veteran guards), but I hope this kid makes it VERY HARD to not play him.

As for JJ…with this new roster, there should be less reason than ever for him to hold onto the ball so often or so long. If this doesn’t change, then the common denominator will be all too easily revealed.

vava74

September 7th, 2009
5:49 am

Here’s my take on Acie’s failure as a Hawk: he has the same nose type as Shareef

Shareef was a nice player, but lacked size and killer instinct. Acie lacks the hunger.

It’s all about the nose.

vava74

September 7th, 2009
5:50 am

yes, I had a tough weekend… my brain feels like mashed potatoes…

Big Ray

September 7th, 2009
7:29 am

Vava74,

Been watching too many Kellogg’s Fruit Loops commercials? Sounds like you’ve been talking to Toucan Sam…..

vava74

September 7th, 2009
7:40 am

Hi Big Ray,
I’m afraid that this is where our “cultural differences” make me lose out on the sense – or lack of it – of your reply!

vava74

September 7th, 2009
7:43 am

the beauty about the internet is that we can be “on the same” page almost instantly…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AfBXyH3eSo

I must say that you were right on the money!

Clyde

September 7th, 2009
8:07 am

Samuel excuse Ken. Following the Hawks makes you go crazy sometimes. That’s why I gave this blog up for a minute. Why follow a team that doesn’t look to improve.

vava74

September 7th, 2009
8:42 am

Clyde,

To improve, you need an action plan that fits the capabilities and characteristics of the organization.

The Hawks franchise has severe limitations in many aspects essential to achieve success:

a) there is a limit to what the ownership will be willing to go to cash wise (remember, they are losing money already as we are);
b) there is not sufficient support, locally, regionally and nationally and the Hawks compete for the spot light with too many franchises and college teams.
c) the Hawks are not perceived as solid and appealing to most free agents (we are slowing changing this).

Finally, sometimes it is better to take small evolutionary steps than to try and try and take a guge leap and repeat mistakes of the past (getting Mo Malone and Theus should be a good example of what should not be done).

Melvin

September 7th, 2009
9:43 am

Here’s Hoopshype analysis of the Hawks…

http://hoopshype.com/previews/atlanta.htm

Clyde

September 7th, 2009
9:44 am

I hear you vava. I’ll just root for the Crimson Tide and make my cameos on the blog until the Hawks are ready to compete for a ring.

richbrave

September 7th, 2009
9:55 am

CLYDE:

Why are you still dogging the HAWKS, man? You could have the WIZARDS to root for. Count your blessings. Besides where did the HAWKS finish in 2006?

vava74

September 7th, 2009
10:08 am

Hi Clyde,

I think you have just lost your “FIRE WOODY” license.

To hold one you must qualify for it.

To qualify for it you must root for the Hawks AS THEY ARE, regardless of them contending.

I know that winning feels nice, however, to be the underdog waiting for that elusive title makes it even tastier when it comes (if it comes)… and in the process, you take the almost the same amount of pleasure when you win something which is routine for others, like a 7 game 1st round playoff series…

richbrave

September 7th, 2009
10:09 am

Do any of you bloggers know where or when IVERSON is meeting HEISLEY today in HOT-lanta?

Samuel

September 7th, 2009
10:23 am

Clyde,

I think we are improving. Just not enough to win it all. We’re not the only game in town(ie: Tuscaloosa). Atlanta can’t use the whole City Budget to buy players.

richbrave

September 7th, 2009
10:28 am

Yes, bloggers, the BRAVES are toast, and I’m ba-a-a-c-c-ck!!!!! Aren’t you just thrilled to death? I’m nothing if not a one trick pony. Good luck to my adopted round-ballers this season. I think they moved ahead with JOE SMITH in the fold. And I think he’s pleased as well. I’m not sure what COLLINS brings other than insurance in the front-court. But SMITH should draw important minutes in the season coming up. I’m also not sure what JEFF TEAGUE brings to the court, but am looking forward to see his play. Be interesting to see how his talents mesh with MIKE BIBBY’s and the team. MB’s past his prime, but still effective if used properly. Maybe TEAGUE’s strengths are the ones that BIBBY doesn’t possess anymore. Does anyone know if JEFF defends well on the perimeter?

Samuel

September 7th, 2009
11:07 am

I really wish we would sign AI. I know some here think it would be too much of a gamble. Supposedly he has all this baggage but he “could provide” that missing piece to put us into the big three. I don’t see how he could hurt us enough to drop us out of the middle tier.

Plus, he will add much needed revenue to the ASG and put “butts in the seats”. I for one would be OK with the move.

vava74

September 7th, 2009
11:25 am

Samuel,

Stay off the pipe man. AI is a loser. A guy with tremendous talent but no respect for one of the fundamental aspects of the game: team play.

Look at how Spain and Argentina won those international BBall medals: team play, not with individually talented stars pilled up and playing on their own.

Only when the USA reverted back to a team concept (with players of different characteristics, some stars, some utility players) their natural talents shined together and produced a winner again.

Don’t come and talk about how close AI was to win it all with Philly: that was a small period in time in which he did a fraction of what he should have done throughout his career (listen to his coaches, respect his colleagues and practice). Give Larry Brown the merit for almost pulling that out!

A BBall player who publicly and repeatedly says that he doesn’t need to practice or that practice is not important is, by definition, AN IDIOT.

It’s a real shame since, even so, there is a sort of likability in the little fellow (a David and Goliath kind of thing), however, his minuses always out weighted his pluses and he has not showed, at all, any change to this bad attitude.

Ken Strickland

September 7th, 2009
12:02 pm

SAMUEL-you need to limit your comments because the more comments you make the more you demonstrate your severly limited basketball IQ. The Hawks are already having trouble with a limited OFF that far too often featured one on one play and ISO Joe, Flip and Bibby. And here you come with your mindless suggestion that we consider signing the ultimate one on one ISO ballhoging AIverson. And you make this dumb suggestion despite the fact his last 3 teams, Philly, Denver & Detroit, all improved after getting rid of him. You’re not a basketball fan as much as a fan of certain high profile players. You really know very little about basketball, and it shows. So, let me suggest you seriously read VAVA74′S 11:25am post and try to learn something, PLEASE!

You certainly aren’t gaining any points with your mindless attacks directed at me. It’s like using spitballs to sink a battleship.

Sautee

September 7th, 2009
2:56 pm

new blog up

Romblurbamoli

November 26th, 2009
7:20 am

Activision denies Modern Warfare 2 Russian ban: reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/17/russia_mw2/

Romblurbamoli

November 26th, 2009
7:25 am

I just received a bluetooth headset and cannot get it to turn on. I have it charging and connected to the playstation. It shows that it is charging by flashing red but when I try to turn the power on nothing happens. How do I fix this? Thanks!

Look who’s talking …

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