Look who’s talking …

AJ, That Wiz jersey is on the list! But it’s just one picture with Gilbo on there lol.

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Teague’s future Backup?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3CXon8Ve0&NR=1

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I had mentioned Brevin Knight about a month ago. Then I looked at how poorly he has shot the ball in the past few years and read how he seemingly has decided NOT to penetrate into the lane and I changed my mind. I like the idea of someone who can teach Teague how to “change speeds” because that sometimes is a problem for young lightening quick guards… they only throw the fastball and that usually doesn’t work in the NBA. Someone young and hungry wouldn;t be a bad choice either… like a PG-version of Mario West. Someone who would look at Tegaue and say “I don’t care if your a 1st rounder from the ACC, I need to put food on my table so I’m about to go Rucker Park on you”. Let’s be honest, it’s not as if this team has a bunch of tough-guys (despite these great off-season acquisitions, we’re still looking at a pretty soft team). So adding grit in the last roster spot wouldn’t be a bad call either.

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Ariose, good find on young Seth Curry. Pedigree is evident isn’t it? The competion he’ll face at Duke – both during practices and games – will likely do wonders for his development (although I’m counting on the young chaps in Chapel Hill to consistently bust his chops).

AJ, didn’t mean to suggest that Sund envisages Collins’ principal role as tutor to Siler; just that in addition to Collins’ on the court value during the season, he’s the kind of player from whom perhaps young Siler can and will gain tons that he won’t otherwise get in the NBDL. Sort of a ‘two for one’ if you like. And Collins’ remarks certainly suggest something less than a reluctance to act in such a capacity, didn’t they?

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Astro,

Now that the Hawks has signed Smith and Collins, how do you like the acqusition of Crawford now? Would you prefer Flip and Tony Battie that you proposed after the Crawford deal?

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Ariose,

I know you like Flip but wouldn’t you think both players would be redundant at this point considering everyone stays healthy…

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Which player will exceed expectations the most in 2009-10

Horford 18%
Josh 20%
Marvin 23%
Crawford 14%
Teague 25%

Voting in progress at
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/339103-which-player-will-exceed-expectations-the-most-in-2009-10/

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I would really like for us to look into prying Tony Battie away from New Jersey though.

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newkid, I appreciate what Collins said. And maybe he means it, but honestly, I think it is one of those things that every vet says. But we all know that every vet is not able nor interested in being the resident guru for the younger guys.

Melvin, Sund has done a terrific job and thus my name change. He was able to secure bring in the bench scorer and add a quality big in Joe Smith. And by expertly negotiating a dip in the salaries of Bibby, Marvin and Zaza, we should be able to keep Joe AND our 1st rounder. No doubt, he averted all of my fears I expressed when we acquired Crawford. And with Crawford saying that he will pass first, there is nothing left to worry about.

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Here’s that AI Interview I was talking about that happend at the Hawks practice facility a few day ago…

http://dimemag.com/2009/09/allen-iverson-talks-free-agency/#comments

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A couple of Blurbs about the Hawks in this piece:

http://dimemag.com/2009/09/how-minnesota-can-forget-about-ricky-rubio-for-now/

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Ariose- If we could really get Batite for Morris and Rio, that deal should already be done.
I love what IMUS said- Morris is a Whack Sandwich.
Between Knight and Lue. I take Lue. Better shooter, knows the system, good guy.

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Astro Joe,

While we’re talking about hypothetical situations, let’s say the Hawks have a not so great season and they hire some young whipper snapper, who leads us to greater things….let’s say JJ signs the offered extension, let’s say Josh Smith morphs/evolves into an all-star player…let’s say…..

As to your question at the end of your post, that’s a tough call. I think that scenario is how Woody ended up here in the first place, don’t you? These things happen eventually. If you’re having stagnant season after season, somebody will eventually blow things up. Like it or not, we could end up there again, though hopefully not. If we do, we’ll live through it just like we did the last time we were in the lottery. Although hopefully we will have somebody who can draft more than just one position. Maybe this time we won’t pass over 3 all-star lead guards…

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BE CAREFUL HEAPING PRAISE ON SUND,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Acie/Speedy trade for Jamal Crawford, and picking Teague has Sund REALLY done anything? I mean, waiting people out and picking the best of what’s left doesn’t show skills, to me. Now he was hella in getting Golden State to take Acie/Speedy for Crawford, that was GREAT!!!

But all of the other moves, while good in the own right, doesn’t show SKILLS. Joe Smith, Collins were just laying around waiting on someone to pick them up.

Just like Sund’s assessment of Woodson, show me more, that is my assessment of him. Getting Flip/Mo Squad last year, thru no skills is nothing to brag about nor is getting Joe Smith/Collins.

Sund’s body of work is still Dallas in the 80’s and Seattle in the 90’s. He and Woodson may be in the same boat as far as ASG is concerned.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friend!!”

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dos: Sund has done what BK failed to do. Which is finish out a roster with someone other than non-roster invitees.

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Ray, those weren’t my words from the 2:59 post, but what a writer at Slam was posing as an open-ended question. Ariose found the article, I just cut and pasted the words.

Personally, I struggle with that scenario and often come back to the incredibly high turnover rate of coaches in the NBA. Maybe I’m wrong, but it feels like a newly hired coach is more apt to fail than succeed in this league. I do feel like the Hawks were right to blow up the Dikembe/Smitty team at that time. Of course, the execution was horrific (trading Smith for Rider). But that team had clearly run it’s course and the players were mostly on the down-side of their career. (The Shareef/Theo/Big Dog blow-up was a no brainer because that was undoubtedly an under-performing team). I don’t think that would be the case with this nucleus in the next 1-2 seasons. That’s what actually makes it even more risky. Do you risk hiring a Michael Curry who alienates the core of his team and now you’re looking at 3 coaches in 3 years and wasting the prime years of your core? Or do you keep everyone in place considering that both Boston and Cleveland likely have 1 more year before they fall off, so allow organic growth/erosion to elevate you a notch higher?

Most assume that Woody’s replacement will be John Wooden, but the recent hirings across the NBA suggest otherwise. And I can’t say that I know enough about Sund’s personal record of hiring coaches to know if he can find “the next big thing”. I am fairly certain, however, that we will NOT replace Woody with a brand name coach, it will need to be “the next big thing”. Oh yeah and the other question is, can a team expect to achieve true contender status without exceeding the luxury tax threshold? Can a team achieve true contender status without a clear “alpha male” to lead/challenge his teammates? Taking the next step is not strictly about the person wearing the expensive suit on the side lines. This team is missing more than just a “titan of the timeouts”.

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In fairness to BK, I think that the payroll has increased a tad bit since he was running things. I guess it’s possible that he preferred to manage a team with a bottom 10 payroll and that ownership kept saying “spend more, spend more” and BK said “no, thanks, I enjoy shopping at The Dollar Store”, but I kind of doubt it. Bottom line, Sund has done more with his available resources than BK did with his available resources. But one was attempting to optimize a Kia while the other is working with a Honda.

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Dos Hawquis,

Daniel said it right. You can’t take away Sund’s thunder this off season at all. Not only did he sign his major free agents to recession approved contracts, thereby locking them away for 3-4 years, he got Bibby to take a HUGE paycut and still be happy with the contract he got. Then in some magical way, he PERSUADED Zaza, Bibby and Marvin to make less in 2010, thereby giving Hawks a fighting chance in that upcoming free agency bonanza. Not sure of how many GM’s were able to accomplish that this season.

Make no mistake. The Jamal Crawford trade was major. In a perfect world, if Nellie had been getting on with Jamal, no way in hell will any GM agree to trade away a 20 point scorer for Acie and a gimpy Speedy. I consider that a coup in the line of how Lakers got Paul Gasol for virtually nothing.

In reference to Josh Childress, it is what it is, man. Chillz wanted more money that Sund was willing to pay last year, Actually, Sund’s cost cutting measures started last year when he let Chillz go and he was able to scoop up Mo Evans and Flip. You cannot deny that those two guys had more to do with our 47 win season than only Childress alone could have done. This off-season, nothing could be worked out with Josh, so he returned abroad as I knew he would do right from the start. Next off-season is when I’m looking forward to Josh’s situation playing out one way or the other. We still hold his right, his Greek contract will expire. Now unless the Greek club offer Chillz another monster contract, if he returns to the NBA, look for Sund to get something for him if he does not want to come back to the Hawks.

Then do not discount Sund’s ability to finally bring in two bigs for the veteran’s minimum. Yeah, he might have been scraping the bottom of the barrel with Jason Collins, still he did what us bloggers have been crying for for at least two years. Fortify our skinny frontline. In that vein, Sund has done a masterful job. The icing on the cake will be if he can sign Joe Johnson to an extension this season, and not allow the man to test free agency, where another desperate ball club might offer him a bucketful of cash to jump ship. Sund gets an A in my books.

Go Hawks!

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Astro Joe,

I realize that was an article, and not something you came up with. I thought it was in Dime, not Slam, but I didn’t look closely at the link. The point is legit, but I thought the follow up hypothetical scenarios were a bit contrived. I mean, all the things I came up with are just as likely to happen as what the author suggested.

I had to laugh at the John Wooden reference because you are so right. That IS what a lot of people seem to think. From what I’ve seen (keep in mind, I’ve not been around as long as you have, so this is not a claim to superior experience), GMs seem to have their own type of guy in mind when it comes to coaches. And especially when it comes to a new GM for a team. I didn’t know if Woody was going to be kept around when Sund got here. And believe it or not, I didn’t think that his possible lack of extension would come from his performance. I thought it would be because Sund would do like many GMs do: recreate things “in their own image.” Most guys come in and want to re-lay every position from the front office to the last spot on the coaching staff. And they are especially apt to do so when the coach in place is a guy who isn’t firmly entrenched.

But, either Sund wanted to see for himself what Woody was capable of, or he struck a bargain at the behest of the ASG. Either way, Woody got a 2 year extension, and I’m sure it was made clear to him why.

Here’s my honest opinion in a nutshell on the whole issue. It looks to me like Woody has the best roster he’s had to work with in the ATL yet. I think he’s got enough tools (give or take a minor bench role player or two) to get the job done. I don’t see anything standing in his way. All of our young guys should be able to show some improvement over last year, and we now have quite capable backups at key positions.

In the end, Woody and the team should be able to experience decent expected success this season, unless something catastrophic befalls them (something beyond their control, like a rash of injuries to multiple players).

I don’t see Woody not getting extended because we can’t get past the second round. I don’t see him not getting extended due to win totals, unless we cannot achieve a winning record (42 wins is what it takes to be a “winner”).

I don’t see Woody not getting extended…..unless he fails. And if he fails, and it’s not a catastrophic loss beyond anybody’s control, then that means he simply couldn’t get the job done. I know, I know, it sounds so simple, and there are more complications that can be involved. But that’s the foundation of it, in my mind.

If he “succeeds” but doesn’t get an extension anyway, then it will be for the same reasons I thought he might not get to keep his job when Sund first came here: because Sund has somebody else in mind.

Here’s the key for Sund: if you replace Woody, then he had better have done his homework. Because no matter how it shakes out, the “new guy” is HIS baby, and he will take all the heat for it, and then some. I’ve watched Sund operate for two years now, and nothing about him indicates that he’s willing to “go in another direction” coaching-wise without CAREFUL consideration.

He’s talked to Billy Knight. He knows what happened. He’s got to be smarter than that.

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Astro Joe,

One more thing on the coaching issue. I think two of the biggest reasons why there is such a high turnover rate in the NBA when it comes to coaches is because of what Chuck Daly said: “It’s a player’s league.”
Fair or not, he’s right. Nobody pays for a ticket or sits in the recliner with the remote, all amped up about seeing the coach. It’s probably the most expendable-yet-highly-visible job in the League.

That was the first reason. The second reason is because GMs like their jobs, and want to keep them. Head Coaches are the easiest to scape goat. And the cheapest. You can always fire a coach or choose not to extend them. You can cut them right loose and get some other guy in there, thinking he just got the opportunity of a lifetime. You won’t likely loose multiple millions. Much easier than trying to figure out an acceptable solution to the Zach Randolphs, Amare Stoudamires, or other hard-to-trade contracts. With those guys, you might have to bite a bullet just to get some relief. And then you get second-guessed to death, or it backfires, the fans miss the player something fierce, etc. But the coach? Oh, the fans will get over it. Especially if he’s never been especially successful.

Phoenix fans might miss D’Antoni for now, but even they will get over it. If they continue to be a fringe 8th seed, then Kerr and the “new guy” Gentry will take the heat, but nobody will say “if only D’Antoni were here”…unless of course the Knicks start beating up on the rest of the East. Don’t hold your breath for too long…..

I mean really, does Bryan Colangelo think that Jay Triano is leaps and bounds better than Sam Mitchell? Then why not give him the same type of roster Mitchell had? Why sign Turkoglu and Jack? Simple: Mitchell was not Colangelo’s man anymore. Triano was.

And so it goes.

As to the two questions at the end of your post: I’m not sure. I think there needs to be a willingness to exceed the luxury threshold when it comes to being a title contender. Without it, you are praying to Lady Luck. And probably not getting an answer.

Can a team achieve true contender status without a clear “alpha male” to lead/challenge his teammates?

I guess it depends on what you define as the alpha male type. I think a team can achieve such status as long as there is at the very least a pair of strong leader types. I don’t mean strong like leader of the rabid wolf pack strong. I mean two guys who are able to lead by example and help motivate and challenge their teammates. Two guys who can go out there and get the job done…and some. Kobe is clearly an alpha guy, but he also has Gasol, who needs no motivation or instruction. Jordan had Pippen, who needed no on-court supervision.

I agree, the next step has nothing to do with the guy in the suit. The next “upgrade” will have to do with a guy or guys wearing jerseys. It’s inevitable, if you ask me. The only questions are who comes, who stays, who goes, and at what price.

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Ray, yessir, a very complex issue, if the intent is a championship. A little less so if the goal is to operate a profitable business.

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DAP01, I think you fail to realize its the job that BK done that makes Sund’s job so easier. Smith, Collins, nor any known free agent would come here if it wasn’t for the core that BK put together. I find it hard to believe that if given the same chance last year that BK wouldn’t been able to bring Chills back and deepen the bench. Flip and Crawford are the ones that Sund brought in that catches your eye. But Flip’s player rating was actually worse than Speedy’s player rating when he was signed. The same way Orlando’s former GM couldn’t really be blamed for signing Grant Hill, or New York for signing McDyess.

The vision that BK had is being put to use by Sund and it is clearly working. Everyone says Sheldon was a bust, but I don’t know any GM who gets 5 out of 5 when drafting. But he did get 3 out of 4, or 5 out of 8. Sund has drafted over 3 busts, just in one decade. Don’t forget BK was the GM who took the Hawks back to the playoffs. And truthfully if they haven’t been in the playoffs Joe Smith wouldn’t have even considered signing here. And neither would have Evans last year. Even Evans stated that the momentum from the post season run (by the squad BK put together) was part of the deciding factor for him. And although some love Crawford and Flip. Would any of us rather have them than Chills?

Guys: I for one am tired of the Chills comments…the man chose to move his game to another league out of the US…He just wasn’t all that..if so, teams would have went after him with $$$ this year. Time to move on from JChille and I think it’s fair to say that each GM is favirable for doing some things (moves) and unfavorable for not doing some things (moves) which now is a mute point…we all know what BK didn’t do which will forever stick out, not draft PG’S when we truly needed to. At this point, it’s time to address this year’s team which is to get deeper into the play-offs and challenge for the title!

What concerns me now is how Woody will use his core players versus the bench unit..He must learn to coach players up by development as well as playing smart on the court. He must teach his team when to run and when to set up as well as play exceptional defense! It’s Woody year to shine or get rained on imo!!

We have to get the Hawks core fan base back and Although I’m a season ticket holder with the Falcons, I do attend a few Hawks games…my plan is to attend even more games this year and I hope most fans come out to root for this team because they will need our support!!!

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Big Ray,

You are on the money most of the way, however, I believe that we have within our roster the tools to build a winning ball club without have to look for that elusive “alpha male”.

The reasons for my view on this subject are simple:

a) there are very few “real” alpha males – Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Duncan – and maybe no one else at this stage. The only “maybe” I am willing to include is Howard.

All the rest are at JJ’s level and he is, by far, one of the best players on that “sub-alpha level” character wise, so I would not be happy if we traded him or let him go.

b) We have tremendous talent within:

- I am convinced that Al will become a force inside, slightly undersized yes, but a force (this doesn’t necessarily mean 25ppg and 15rpg, but that he will be known for his defense and his relentless hustle – also with excellent character);
- I’ve not lost hope in J-Smoove either.
- I’ve great confidence in Marvin becoming a major all round contributor (a Tayshaun Prince with a bit more offensive tools and more physical presence).

c) Only if Teague does not evolve as expected we will have one major need at the point. I think he can be a good inside-outside PG with reasonable play making skills (with JJ on board the PG doesn’t necessarily need to be a tremendous passer).

d) If we expand our offensive repertoire (Woody, its on your court), JJ will have a field day against 95% of the teams and will average 25ppg again, without forcing it.

I believe that we have the potential to win 50-55 games this season and become a 60 win team the following year WITHOUT making any extra moves.

Just on account of roster and Woody’s maturation.

Notwithstanding the above, I will continue to be happy if we win only 44-47 games this season provided that we reach the playoffs less tired and with the bench developed.

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The Truth is, what the truth is; sometimes it hurts. After the celebration of signing Jason Collins, it’s the next day hangover.
According to the article, Jason Collins becomes the Mario West at the center position. The only difference is, the vet has a bit more seasoning.

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wordsmithtom

Great Point!

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