Look who’s talking …
SAY IT LOUD! SCREAM, if you have to. Hawks' captain and All-Star Joe Johnson has suddenly become a Twitter machine. But he's not the only resident of our tight-knit community in a talkative mood these days. Hawks coach Mike Woodson is, too.
HAWKSVILLE - Whoever thought that late August and early September would be a quiet time for the Hawks didn’t count on Twitter changing the game.
Hawks captain and All-Star Joe johnson, known around the NBA as one of the league’s more subdued stars, has suddenly taken the gloves off on his Twitter page. He hasn’t mentioned anything about that extension the Hawks offered and whether or not he’ll be agreeing to sign on for another four years after this one, the final year of a five-year, $70 million deal.
But he’s sharing plenty of other things with anyone interested in following him. In fact, he’s sharing more than I can remember him giving up at anytime before now (and he might be sharing a bit too much for some of our more sheltered members, so be warned). I’m still scratching my head over this one, what with all the work it takes some days to get JJ to open up.
Maybe he’s shedding that hard shell of his and taking some steps in the direction of being a more vocal and engaged leader, which I’d argue is a blessing in disguise of peculiar Tweets (or whatever I should call them) from a usually reserved man – he went almost two months, from late June to late August, without a single update. I’m just saying … (scratching my head), something has changed.
JJ isn’t the only member of the family talking these days. You might remember the ditty we had with Hawks coach Mike Woodson way back when detailing the fact that he would head into the final year of his contract without an extension.
Well, Woody spoke about it again late last week in an interesting story by my main man Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports. I don’t expect this story to move the needle at all on the non-existent extension talks for Woodson and his staff.
We’ve had the Woody debate around here for pretty much every day of the past five years (or so). And the sides never seem to give much ground. The Woody supporters (Steamboat has been relentless from the outset) have campaigned for him without fail, through good and bad times. The Woody detractors have been equally steadfast and resolute in their belief that he’s not the right guy for the job.
The anti-Woody camp was winning the debate his first three years on the job. But the pro-Woody crowd is crowing a bit these days (with the pro-Rick Sund crowd soul-clapping their guy into the discussion as well).
As far as I can tell, the general mood of the partisan divide at this time was captured best by our good friend RA, who fired off this email late last week after the Hawks finished up Joe Smith’s paperwork:
“This summer can only be summed up in one word, brilliant. Everything that the Hawks usually don’t do, Sund managed to pull off. He managed to get marquee talent while at the same time giving up very little. He managed to keep the core of the team together, something that I would have thought was impossible going into this summer. He’s also managed to bring in a veteran, that the young fellas are going to listen to. All I can say is that regardless of what else happens this summer, Sund has done EVERYTHING that he could have been expected to do. The question now is whether or not Woody can handle the arithmetic?
Whatever side you’re on in this thing, one thing is certain. When the season starts, the pressure is all on Woodson (who, by the way, has been asking for a roster like this since he took the job) and his staff. Because for once, the summer has gone just as about as well as it possibly could have for the Hawks. The expectations from last season to this one couldn’t be higher. And with so many familiar faces returning and so few new additions (four might seem like a lot, but when three of them are seasoned vets like Smith, Jamal Crawford and soon-to-be Jason Collins, along with rookie PG Jeff Teague, a rugged transition is not expected) folks won’t tolerate a slow start.
The Collins tidbit, which was folded into Sunday’s Hawks’ Insider, is proof that these guys aren’t finished filling out this roster. The frontcourt could see the addition of at least one more player after Collins. And said player could punch his ticket for the season with a strong training camp showing. That means a host of guys, including Garret Siler, Othello Hunter and perhaps even Mario West (should he decide to attend) could crank up the tenor of what should be an otherwise business-like training camp.
Hunter and West (twice) have already shown that they are capable of making the team with strong camp showings. The dynamic changes a bit this year, though. If the Hawks plan on keeping the roster at 13 players, which according to most of the folks I’ve spoken to seems to be the way they are leaning (in an effort to maintain roster flexibility should another player shake out of the league’s training camp covers later on), they’ll have to make a tough choice about that 13th man.
Do they want a third point guard as security for Mike Bibby and Teague? – And yes, Crawford can play the point in a pinch but is better off playing at shooting guard.
Do they scour the landscape for a utility player that won’t rock the boat if he’s in a suit most nights as opposed to a uniform?
Or do they go the safe route and locate one more big man as injury insurance, in case they suffer through the wave of injuries again up front like they did last season (when Josh Smith, Al Horford and Marvin Williams all succumbed to injuries at one time or another)?
The pickings are slim everywhere but point guard, where journeymen always seem abundant. But a third point guard isn’t specifically necessary unless someone higher on the depth charts hits a snag (injury or otherwise).
Still, I think the smart play here is keeping a spot or two clear for the best-player-available in late October.
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444 comments Add your comment
vava74
September 2nd, 2009
12:55 pm
Sautee,
I still disagree on your analysis of the Miami series. I believe that your vision is blurred by your negativity towards our performance.
We never repeated game 1’s performance because we were denied early in the game by refs the possibility of getting into the flow.
I am european and I know a lot about crooked refereeing since that is absolutely killing football (soccer). The best crooked refs make it look accidental and it is in the details that escape the casual observer that they do the real damage.
In relation to Woody, I already said that I agreed with you.
In relatin to SVG: he had the balls to call his 5th option on that play but he did not have the balls to keep Nelson in the bench during the finals. He completely lost it there.
This is basically to illustrate that some coaches are better in some areas than others.
I’ll take you last sentence as the “core” info to keep in mind since I also agree.
Daniel
September 2nd, 2009
1:16 pm
vava- that is a really cool story.
Honestly, Sekou or the Hawks should do a public relations piece on you.
I am huge soccer fan. I love Liverpool, but my main team is a small English club called Luton Town. I became a fan by playing as them on Nintendo.
I follow the club on line and I am a member of the fan club message boards. I got the chance to go to England and attend a Luton Town game, the local paper did a piece on their Yankee fan. It was a really awesome expierence.
I hope one day you will get the chance to visit Atlanta and attend a game.
Daniel
September 2nd, 2009
1:18 pm
sautee- what about the play call against Boston early in the year, where Woody had Joe penetrate the baseline and kick out to Marvin for the 3 pointer. We lost the game on Pierce’s last second shot. I know that is from early in the season, but it is the first example that came to mind.
Sekou Smith
September 2nd, 2009
1:56 pm
Spoke to someone that’s in attendance in PR for the FIBA tourney of americas and was told that Al has been doing his thing. My guy doesn’t love how he’s being used in the DR’s offensive scheme, but said that Al’s game (as always) translates to whatever style is being played and that he’s shown himself to be a far more competent scorer than anyone’s seen him do with the Hawks on a consistent basis. His summer will have been full of quality work and I can see Al having a monster third season, provided he stays healthy.
vava74
September 2nd, 2009
1:59 pm
Sautee,
I resent a bit your “cheerleading ways” commentary.
Why can’t a guy be positive when assessing the Hawks’ progression without being patronized?
If you want to patronize people, patronize the ones who only look at offensive stats or value dunks more than the little things that make a team successful.
We have made tremendous progress since the 13-win season and we have a solid starting 5 and a solid reserve 5 (if Teague does not disappoint) and Woody was an integral part of that progress.
Yes, he has faults and it is sometimes maddening to watch the ISO-Joe Hawks but there is much more beyond that. If that was not the case, then you should mark up JJ’s assessment up to the level of Kobe.
Since I am sure that you wont, you are bound to acknowledge that if we won 47 out of 82 games with some important injuries along the way, there is more to the Hawks and Woody than ISO-Joe.
Astro Joe
September 2nd, 2009
2:30 pm
Sekou, yeah, I know that too many players (in basketball and baseball) seem to have problems staying healthy after a rigorous off-season of competing for their native country in international competition, only to have to play a full season of “big boy ball”. Even with the added depth, we still need Horford to take the next step in his evolution.
Daniel
September 2nd, 2009
2:58 pm
thanks for the update Sekou
Daniel
September 2nd, 2009
2:59 pm
vava- I am not trying to speak for Sautee, but I didn’t think he meant to be condescending. I think that he appreciates your opitimism.
Sautee
September 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Vava74,
Daniel is correct. Notice that I went to the effort of saying “Seriously”.
There was NO patronizing. Sorry if you took it that way, but I tried to be clear.
You also said this to me: “I believe that your vision is blurred by your negativity towards our performance.”
I was NOT overly negative about our performance (we WON the freakin’ series!), but I DEFINITELY think we played down to their level. If THAT is negativity to you, then OK, I’ll just have to live with your scorn.
But I was totally serious about your positivity being a needed part of the blog.
Daniel,
I could be wrong here, but that play seemed like Iso-Joe and when Marvin’s man tried to help, Joe made them pay. I’ve never said that Iso-Joe doesn’t work some of the time. It does. But all TOO often it leads to a poorer shot than if we worked the ball around more. And uses up the shot clock without making the defense work.
FEMHAWKFAN
September 2nd, 2009
5:52 pm
PEOPLE, TAKE IT DOWN A THOUSAND! As a strong and mature woman, I was not offended at all by Joe’s tweets. He was having fun with his friends. That’s what friends do! Think about it people, how many times have you dared your friends to do something crazy when you were Joe’s age. EVERYTHING is not about basketball people! What do you expect him to tweet about: training for the upcoming season, his contract extension, and making a case for keeping Woodson! I think not! Lay off the man, people!
Jody
September 2nd, 2009
6:13 pm
Hey Sekou,
Thanks for the update on Al Horford. Is he starting at center or power forward for the Dominican National Team?
vava74
September 2nd, 2009
6:50 pm
Hi Sautee,
Just after Daniel’s last post and before yours I tried to post a new entry but the blog monster got it.
I will try to recapture its contents and spirit:
I am an optimistic guy but my optimism in this case is not a optimism “by default” as “cheer-leading” implies.
On the contrary, I think that most of the negativism around here is “by default” forgetting the real circumstances behind the Hawks and originated by people demanding to win “now”.
Wanting to win “now” is alright, however, you cannot go from “wanting” to “demanding” which is unrealistic.
The “win now” strategy (trading for “proven names” and spending loads of cash) works frequently, I don’t question that, however, if you look at things realistically, you’ll see that the teams that have had success with that strategy (Celtics, Lakers, to some extent Miami when then snatched Shaq from the Lakers, …), they have very different circumstances than the Hawks:
1. Deep pockets
2. The organizations and the cities are appealing and perceived as good destinations
3. They have a bigger market (important when you consider endorsements, etc…)
Let’s face it, the Hawks are low in all the three categories:
1. The Atlanta Spirit are losing money and obviously they are not in position to simply throw money into the fire.
2. There are almost no sell outs in Hawks’ games and it was frequent to have the crowd cheering the opposing team on account of Kobe or Lebron and the Hawks, as an organization is not known to be a successful franchise.
3. I understand that ATL, as a market, cannot be considered small, however, it does seem that it may be too small to be divided between the Hawks, Braves and the Falcons (and now the Thrashers), specially in light of the fact that ATL does not seem to be a very strong BBall town.
Hence, our only exit is to keep this core together and see where this will take us. I am very confident that if we re-sign JJ and Teague is at least 75% of what we all wish him to be, within 4 years we will have reached the conference finals at least once and be in position to demand to “win now”.
Mystikal
September 2nd, 2009
7:33 pm
Good post Vava, you made some good points.
Mystikal
September 2nd, 2009
7:36 pm
SEKOU,
Any more news on who is a lock for training camp? Heard Siler already invited and believe Hunter and West making appearances? Did Korolev really sign with a Euro-team, never heard officially? Lastly, any of the alleged 3rd point guards we may be signing invited to camp?
bbgenie
September 2nd, 2009
8:08 pm
Sekou, Would you sign A.Iverson. to a 1 yr deal if he was willing to play for the Vet Min? $1.3 million.Could he help us?? I know minutes would be an issue for our Backcourt, but this would be a good problem to have.
jose
September 2nd, 2009
8:10 pm
Jason Collins a Hawk!!! More beef?
bbgenie
September 2nd, 2009
8:11 pm
Enter your comments here
terrell barron
September 2nd, 2009
8:18 pm
Is Randolph Morris’ contract guaranteed? I was thinking the 2nd year wasn’t. Anybody know? I cant see him having a spot on this team, now that we signed Collins.
terrell barron
September 2nd, 2009
8:20 pm
bbgenie, all AI would do is cut into Teagues minutes. Hell to the naw!
Mystikal
September 2nd, 2009
8:39 pm
It’s official, Jason Collinns is a hawk! Yeeaahhh??
J/K, this is the best depth we have had in the post for long as I can remember. This fills our 12th roster spot. Training camp should be very interesting.
terrell barron
September 2nd, 2009
8:52 pm
Mystical, who’s #11?
Ramon
September 2nd, 2009
8:57 pm
Reading that he was taught defense by Mutombo and Mourning was very refreshing to read! You know he must have some knowledge on defensive positioning and getting the most out of every movement.
vava74
September 2nd, 2009
9:14 pm
Looking at the Fiba PR-DR game:
I am glad that we did not look into Villanueva. If we all think that J-Smoove is a knucklehead, then we would all commit suicide if Villanueva played for us…
He’s a black-hole and a TO machine.
Al, on the contrary, is doing an excellent job…
chuckw/deadjournalist
September 2nd, 2009
9:40 pm
it’s been a while fellas – i figured it was time to crawl out of the off-season woodwork.
the roster sure looks a lot better after the last few weeks. despite all the moves, i still hate that flip won’t be back. i’ll be honest, i’ve never really paid attention to jamal crawford’s game. he’s been like time thomas in that way with me. flip’s play, even before the hawks, always stood out when ever i’d catch a game in which he played. as much as many people have equated crawford’s skill to that of murray, until i see him put the team on his back three or four times, i’ll wonder how flip would have handled it. i’m not trying to make flip anything more than he was – a veteran scorer, but i tip my hat to him.
the last two signing of collins and smith are solid, and underscore what most young teams need, solid productive match-up vets. collins is six, strong, hard defensive fouls who will bring his lunch pail to work – during the game and at practice. smith, solid and steady.
in watching this team develop, the frustration has always been that maddening inconsistencies. hopefully smith will help steady the front court for those games with josh gets two quick fouls, gets pissed, and goes to the bench.
two months more month before we find out for sure.
updated:
1. bibby
2. johnson
3. williams
4. smith
5. horford
6. crawford
7. smith
8. pachulia
9. teague
10. evans
11. collins
12. to 15. morris/west/hunter/siler/robinson
Mystikal
September 2nd, 2009
10:23 pm
terrell,
Randmo is already under contract, had one more year guaranteed from old deal. Sucks :frown:
Big Ray
September 3rd, 2009
12:09 am
Vava74,
We don’t all think Smoove is a knucklehead. Come on now, you know I can’t let you get away with that one!
. Seriously, I think he has knucklehaead moments. Unfortunately, they can last for games at a time, sometimes.
MannyT,
Thanks for clearing that up. I knew you would. And I didn’t forget the WAFFLE. You were number 1 on the acronym charts last year. Numba one stunna!
Sautee,
Couldn’t agree more. We played “down” in the Miami series. I’d like to see a better (more convincing) series this time around, though I’m sure somebody will say I’m being picky. Ain’t it nice to assume that we’ll be in the playoffs?
ChuckW ,
Whassup?! Glad to see you’re still around. I like the addition of Smith and Collins as well. This might mean some run at power forward for Big Al (though not a whole lot). And it’s nice to know that these two guys will be a challenge for Smoove, Big Al, and even Marvin in practice. Not to mention, if Smoove (and I sincerely hope he doesn’t do this) loses focus for too long a period of time, we have solid frontcourt guys to turn to besides Zaza (a one-man backup plan is never a good thing). Even with fouls and injuries, we’d still be covered to an extent.
Also, agreed on Flip. I hate to see him go after what he did for this team. Such is the life of an NBA journeyman. As for Crawford, the guy doesn’t have the best shot selection, but he can score like nobody’s business, and he can get to the line with regularity.
Niremetal,
Welcome back! If JJ ends up having to pull that 40 mpg crap again, it better be due to a slew of injuries. Otherwise, I’ll be rattling the saber right next to you.
jihu8
September 3rd, 2009
12:16 am
Pr-Dr game: Horford ate Peter John Ramos and Daniel Santiago together, both 7 footers. He looked really well, despise the plays are not run through him. He is playing center. Villanueva is power forward, and he is not worth 40 millions
Rig Bay
September 3rd, 2009
12:24 am
“Collins played in 31 games with Minnesota last season and averaged 1.8 points and 2.3 rebounds.”
Wow!! Bring on the big 3 in the east!! that 2nd seed is a sure lock now that we have collins. if we can jus’ get siler in camp we are set!!
ant banks
September 3rd, 2009
12:30 am
on the hawks poll: how would you grade the hawks off season acquisitions? who were the 19 clowns that graded the moves a “D” and 5 nuts voted “F.”
wtf? that’s why i hate these polls. there are some real idiots out there.
i gave them a “B”.
doc
September 3rd, 2009
12:41 am
ant some folks think if we didnt get kobe, shaq, bron bron and steve nash over the summer it is a bust.
Dean21
September 3rd, 2009
1:32 am
Let’s see….Bibby, Marvin, ZaZa, a real point guard in the draft, a good trade for Crawford, Joe Smith and now Collins…hmmmmm that folks = a freakin A!!!!!
Dean21
September 3rd, 2009
1:34 am
Sund has done wonders revamping this team on a positive level!! We should give the man a standing O! This is clearly an over 50 win team now….
Ed
September 3rd, 2009
2:33 am
With 12 players signed, and with 10 (the first 10 on Chuckw/’s list) absolutely deserving playing time, Woody is going to have a nervous breakdown handling a ten-man rotation night in and night out. It goes without saying Woodrow will have no excuses for running JJ and the starting lineup in the ground. Throw in RandMo and Collins for practices and things should get pretty intense which will strengthen the Hawks overall.
vava74
September 3rd, 2009
6:38 am
I only saw the first half of the PR-DR game and Al was terrific, keeping his team in play with his defense and hustle.
Villanueva on the other had during the first half did his best to keep the DR out of the game with poor shot selection, unwillingness to pass the rock and with several turnovers.
He then did score 10 pts in a row (I only read about it) and finished with 21 however, I rather have a player that scores 15, shares the ball, doesn’t break plays and hustles than a guy that scores 25 doing the precise opposite.
dap01
September 3rd, 2009
8:08 am
Sund has been an excellent GM this year. Woody don’t complain, just take advantage of this improved roster. Win 50+ games, improve as a coach and get that new contract.
This team has more weapons and more depth. There is no excuse to overplay Joe Johnson. I wonder if he will complain if his minutes are reduced by 5 minutes per game. This team should be fresh and ready to go during the playoffs.
Go Sund!
Clyde
September 3rd, 2009
8:32 am
ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!! ALABAMA WILL BE DEEP IN ATLANTA THIS WEEKEND
ILL-logical
September 3rd, 2009
9:03 am
The reaal genius of Mr. Sund’s off season moves is the number of contracts that will come off of the books next year. With Joe Smith and Collins being 1 year league minimum deals; Mo Evens and Randolph Morris’s expiring contracts there is almost $6 million coming off of the books . Plus, if Joe doesn’t re-sign, Jamal Crawford’s contract number is $ 5 million less than Joe’s and if Joe is resigned, the first round draft choice would be his eventual succesor and Jamal’s $10 million contract can be traded for front court depth.
Now Al’s extention doesn’t look to bad and if Silo ans Othello are ready, they can replace Joe Smith and Collins at a slightly lower cost. Sweet.
ant banks
September 3rd, 2009
10:45 am
CLYDE,
thank god ‘bama don’t play utah!!
Daniel
September 3rd, 2009
10:48 am
on grading the offseason for the Hawks…. I gave them a B, the only real knock has been the Childress situation. Otherwise, the contracts have been very reasonable with a nice trade and two nice FA additions in terms of depth.
Sekou… Dude, you HAVE to give Bradley a hard time about his whole “the Hawks are done dealing” blog after Marvin’s extension. He was so wrong on that one.
I too am wondering about the status of Korolev. Is he going back to Europe?
vava74
September 3rd, 2009
11:08 am
Daniel,
Bradley is wrong since birth. I don’t lose too much time reading what he has to say.
The same applies to Schultz. Although he is right – to some extent – about Woody in his last column he is overplaying the importance of Woody’s statement..
newkid
September 3rd, 2009
11:11 am
Could the Jason Collins’ signing indicate a non-verbal commitment to signing and developing Siler? In the past we’ve talked in this space a fair bit about the lack of a ‘big man’ coaching presence on Woody’s staff, and the lack of a real big man for whom such a coach is essential. Could it be that Sund has identified one of his future big men (i.e., Siler) as well as his primary tutor (i.e., Collins), and obtained an ‘on the floor’ presence to boot? If so, no NBDL for Siler. Sly as a fox that Sund, isn’t he?
Astro Joe
September 3rd, 2009
11:35 am
Ill, Mo has a player’s option next summer so it won’t likely expire until the following summer (when Jamal’s deal terminates). But Sund was successful in getting Bibby, Marvin and Zaza to take a dip in salary next summer. That was a great move and will hopefully allow us to keep our 1st round pick in ‘10 (while staying under the luxury tax threshold).
Dean21, I wouldn’t call this a “revamped” roster, but I give Sund a boat-load of credit for surrounding the existing nucleus with solid role players and needed depth. If Woody maintains his “ensemble cast” approach, everyone should find a way to be productive, since there are no true projects here (other than Teague) amongst the top 11 players.
Ariose
September 3rd, 2009
11:36 am
LOL, Yahoo says Hawks had one of the 10-worst jerseys of the last decade…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-worst-jerseys-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,186507
Ariose
September 3rd, 2009
11:37 am
Oh yeah…
~Sir Links A Lot~
Astro Joe
September 3rd, 2009
11:42 am
newkid, maybe. That assumes that Collins is a “coah in waiting” like Sam Cassell, Eric Snow and Darrell Armstrong in the last few years of their playing career (I think Lindsey Hunter falls in that category also). I don’t like to assign the old guy in the room with the task of playing baby-sitter. And even though he mentioned that “all vets need to help the younger guys” it doesn’t mean that he is ready to accept that as his primary role. My question is will Sund sign Siler and add a 5th center to this team (Horford, Zaza, Collins, Morris, Siler)? Or would that final slot be better served with a different position? My preference? Buy-out RandMo’s contract, sign Siler AND a pass-first vet PG. Has Darrell Armstrong retired officially? Let him become Teague’s personal tutor for a year.
Astro Joe
September 3rd, 2009
11:46 am
Ariose, I HATED those yellow Hawks jerseys. But my Top 10 would have featured those gold-lame Wizards jerseys from the past few years. Each of the 10 entries would have been a different Wizards player wearing that same FUGLY jersey. They look like something that Liberace would have worn if he were a basketball player.
Ramon
September 3rd, 2009
11:47 am
Here’s a name that I’m curious to see what everyone thinks of: Brevin Knight. It seems he was scheduled for a workout for Memphis, but didn’t show. How would you guys/girls react to him being added as the teams 3rd string PG?
JSS
September 3rd, 2009
11:56 am
I have stated before that I feel that Atlanta and the Southeast are greatly under served by the columnists of the AJC and the level of demagoguery that occurs in print and sports radio here (I won’t mention the main culprits names, just their initials JK and JS). The beat writer blogs tend to be the oasis from that. Now, that being said, some of you guys have some real hoot-n-nannies between ya! I stay out of that… But as we are now a month and some change out from the beginning of camp. What is the real consensus now? Are they the same BASG or the ASG now in action with the lawsuit no longer clouding the water? What about the coach and his staff? I know some of you hate him, while others are lukewarm but respect that we are no longer an afterthought in league circles. Where are we really on Michael Woodson as he enters his final contract year? And please, no name calling… In regards to the training camp roster, not any prototype rosters for the real season, how do you feel?
Ariose
September 3rd, 2009
11:57 am
Did I say I was finished?
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/3/1013580/jason-collins-where-the-hot-spot
Ariose
September 3rd, 2009
11:58 am
Hahaha! AJ i’m in COMPLETE agreement with you. All photos of those jerseys should be burned immedately!