Still talking about Joe!
I promise, this is the last time you will have to view this picture of Joe Smith. Next time, he'll be in the same uniform as Josh Smith.
HAWKSVILLE - More than a month has passed since the Hawks’ interest in Joe Smith was revealed to the world in this space.
I doubt any of us thought it would take this long for the resolution to come. I mean, school has already started. The Michael Jackson autopsy is done (someone’s going to jail for this one). The NFL season is upon us. Cash for Clunkers has come and gone. College football is just days away.
And still, we wait for Joe Smith to be signed.
But I believe the day has come. Today has to be Joe Smith Day in Hawksville. It has to be. If things play out the way they are supposed to my name will be intact – check the Twitter feed for my name-change challenge – and we should be able to move on from this saga and back to whatever else we amuse ourselves with this time of year.
And speaking of amusement, if you haven’t seen this extrapolation of the Hawks’ ownership situation, you need to. I understand how someone might try and make the move from “we’re not selling” to where this article took the conversation, but it seems like a stretch even to me. And we all know I’m not afraid to go off the deep end every now and then.
While we’re on the subject of the deep end, I had a great seat at the Dream-Sparks game Sunday at Philips Arena. It allowed me to view the crowd from just about every direction. Josh Smith, Billy Knight, Shelden Williams, Lorenzen Wright and many others were in the building. Josh has shed some weight since I last saw him. He said about 10 pounds. It was noticeable. He looked slimmed down from when I saw him working out in the gym at McEachern High in early July. He said he’s been working all summer on every facet of his game, particularly his mid-range game (those jumpers everyone wants him to take instead of the 3-pointers that cause so much cringing). He’s worked out mostly here in Atlanta, which is a departure from previous summers, when he spent most of his time in Houston.
Wright, who finished last season on the roster in Cleveland, is in a unique situation. He’s job-hunting, so to speak, and an intriguing possibility for the Hawks since he still has a residence here in town. Another veteran big man in that same situation earlier this summer, Theo Ratliff, was also at the game Sunday. The Spurs snapped him up before the Hawks could get to him. But Wright is the kind of physical, veteran big that could fit exactly what the Hawks need in a 12th or 13th man for this upcoming season.
My philosophy is that a team can never have too many big men. It’s clear the Hawks’ cupboard isn’t overflowing in that department, and hasn’t for some time. But now is the time to stock up, especially with every contender in the Eastern Conference loaded up front.
Some of you probably chuckled when you read that the Celtics scooped up Shelden. You were probably thinking back to his days with the Hawks and assuming that he’s an odd fit there. Not me. I think it was a shrewd move for the Celtics to go out and find a serviceable big body for an excellent price, even if he doesn’t play a whole lot this season. It always pays to have that part of your team secured.
If you don’t believe that, scan the rosters in Boston, Orlando and Cleveland and start counting big men. You can go five deep on each team. The Celtics start with Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins and round out the rotation with Big Baby Davis and Shelden. Orlando starts with Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis (who is a bit of a tweener but forces one of your bigs to guard him at 6-10) and Brandon Bass and round out the rotation with Marcin Gortat and Ryan Anderson. Cleveland starts with Shaquille O’Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao and rounds out the rotation with JJ Hickson, Darnell Jackson and Leon Powe (not to mention a dude named LeBron James who can swing over and play minutes at power forward if ever needed).
The Hawks enter the season with a group that starts with Josh Smith, Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and round out the rotation with Joe Smith and Randolph Morris.
Again, the more quality big bodies (you can debate the quality of one guy over the other all day long) on your roster the better.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
428 comments Add your comment
UGA
August 30th, 2009
11:16 am
Who is going to be the 12th man on the Hawks roster on opening night???
(Assuming we know the top 10 and Collins would be the 11th)
I think it will be Super Mario West.
Astro Joe
August 30th, 2009
11:33 am
Sund could have provided the team some veteran depth last summer. Instead of Hunter, West, Morris and Gardner, there surely were some veteran free agents looking for a minumum salary contract. I’m thrilled it is happening this year. My point being that I think we will learn within the first 20-30 games the difference in a team with guys like Joe Smith and Jason Collins vs. our previous collections of throw-away bigs (Morris, Batista, Lo Wright, etc)
Ramon
August 30th, 2009
11:43 am
AJ, I’ll be honest, I don’t think last season the Hawks would’ve had enough juice to pick up many of those veterans last season. Remember they picked up Flip and Evans. And many were surprised by those two moves. Barely getting an 8 seed, and getting a top 4 seed, creates a difference in how other free agents look at you. And also they were in a harder position with Smooth, than they were with Marvin this year.
Ken Strickland
August 30th, 2009
1:07 pm
RAYMON-go back and read the last paragraph of my 10:03PM post. To continue discussing the merits of Woodson’s ability as a HC is a waste of time, and it won’t change anything. It would be more important and beneficial to discuss how he’ll coach the influx of talent he’ll have available on this yrs bench. It’s also beyond the ability or resposibility of any of us to determine whether he deserves an extension. Let’s leave that to the Sund.
terrell barron
August 30th, 2009
1:25 pm
Ken, I dare you say the name Jon “Contract” when talking about the Hawks. lol!
ILL-logical
August 30th, 2009
2:07 pm
These are the three things that I believe Woodson must accomplish this season-in addition to winning- in order to earn a contract extension.
1 Become more of a leader. He has been a virtual baby sitter in the first few years with a roster of ner’ do wells and raw,teenage rookies.Now ,he must put aside his ego and get the team to function as a team and not decide that he is going to”make” someone an All-Star because it is good for the team.And stop with the feuds, it doesn’t refect well on your charecter.
2. Delegate more responsibility to his staff and hold them responsible for their actions. Allow them to do the job that you hired them for and LISTEN to them.
3.Take the strategic viewpoint this season. In the past, expediency ruled; his actions were dictated by survival. With the team that Mr. Sund has assembled to Woodson’s specifications, he can aspire to a higher goal than just making the playoffs: good teams play the season to make the playoffs; great teams use the regular season to get ready for the playoffs.
JSS
August 30th, 2009
2:31 pm
ILL-logical…
Sorry I didn’t answer earlier, I’m sitting in the airport in Boston waiting for my connection back to Atlanta.
I went to the big pre-meet party that they have in Zurich at the main train depot (an incredible place by the way) and Mike Powell (the LJ WR holder) was there… Powell said there was not doubt in his mind that he’ll be the first human past 9 meters (29 ft. 7in or more, sorry about the conversion). They put a lot more into that mark since its metric. He told the english speaking media that he thinks Bolt is possible for 30 ft. 5 inches, maybe 31 feet at altitude… Also, he said that he uses the limelight better than anyone ever, even Lewis. “Carl was human, you knew he could be beat, Usain hasn’t scratched the surface.”
What this I’m reading about Jason Collins? Are the Hawks going to make that deal happen?
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
5:42 pm
Clyde,
I don’t have to sell t-shirts , to go all the way to Rio to get a love life….the wife sees to that. Try again, homie
Samuel,
You’re funnier every day! Go out there and show all them little NBA sissies how to defend Shaq. I know you can, ’cause you’re the man.
Now that’s funny. I ask what makes a good coach versus a bad one, and nobody wants to touch it. Instead, we keep talking about either how great Woody is, or how awful he is. The voice of the people has spoken!
vava74
August 30th, 2009
6:20 pm
Good coach » Bad coach
A good coach must be good at:
A. X-O’s;
B. Motivational skills (this includes being able to, during a game, not only to amp up the players but also calming them down when things are too tense);
C. Capacity to deal with team issues internally and frankly without calling out players (and management) in the press;
Point A must be divided into Offence and Defence: defence wins more games than offence, specially in the playoffs and I would rate a balance between the two @ 60-40.
Phil Jackson is excellent at all three, albeit in occasions he has also failed to be exempt of behaviours which violated point C.
Pop is also very good at all three, however, I think he sometimes fails at B.
From my observation, Woody, on a 1-10 scale fares:
A. Defence 8, Offence 5 – average 6,8 (based on the above def-off ratio).
B. 7 (I already mentioned this, but in game 3 of the Miami series when the refs were creaming us and called 2 fouls on Bibby and 1 on Solo, giving Miami a 11-0 run with 2 four point plays, Woody was simply perfect during the time out)
C. 10 (even on the episodes in which he had troubles with players, Salim, J-Smoove, Woody has been always a straight up guy, never transpiring to the press any disgust or bad words).
jhan
August 30th, 2009
6:41 pm
Here’s a different angle on Woodson:
If Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich retired unexpectedly do you think the Lakers or Spurs would give Woody serious consideration?
If you don’t think so then why should the Hawks be in a rush to rehire Woody?
Sautee
August 30th, 2009
7:11 pm
jhan,
well said
Mystikal
August 30th, 2009
7:24 pm
About good coaches vs bad coaches i’ll say that it does depend on the team they have. I compare what Phil Jackson does vs Larry Brown, they are both good coaches. Phil Jackson is a better motivator and can get the best out of someone’s talent (helping Bulls/Lakers get over hump, take to next level). Larry Brown is a better teacher and can turn a young struggling team into a winner. Now if these two guys switched roles I doubt either would be as successful trying to do what they do. I’d say Greg Poppovich is better at all of these things as Vava mentioned above. Also with the team thing, have to know what the goals are for that team. D’Antoni was thought to be a good coach in Phoenix, but he couldn’t win because he didn’t play enough defense; similar situation with Eddie Jordan in Washington. I still believe they are good coaches, but if winning (championships) is the determining factor than make your own assumption. I’m not proclaiming that you have to win championships to be a good coach. Dallas and Houston have had much talent and many good coaches over the yrs, but both came up short for different reasons (too soft/injury prone).
Anyway for the hawks at this point, I’d say a good coach needs to be able to develop/motivate young talent, know how to take advantage of teams’ strengths (athleticism/fast-break). And goes without saying coach must continue to WIN and get better.
*Also X-O’s and able to make in game adjustments; know when something isn’t working and being able to counter what other team does.
Mystikal
August 30th, 2009
7:40 pm
Just read Cleveland article and saw Joe Smith was made same offer that he too with us. Wow, he really did choose hawks over Bron & company. Good sign.
Just want to say concerning us getting a “true” 5 man. There are only a handful of legit centers in the league. Dwight Howard is at the top of the totem pole and a far post prime Shaq (assuming stay healthy and doesn’t implode team) is somewhere beneath. There are only a handful, scratch that, maybe 5 guys that can contend with them, and 3 now play for the Celtics (KG, Perkins, Sheed Wallace). So regardless of who we put out there (Horford/Collins/Siler, etc.), they will have their way with them. The extra bigs we’ve accumulated this off season will help with foul trouble and wear n tear on our starters. Overall though, our frontcourt guys have to be able to use their quickness advantage. (And just like that we’re back to coaching, just never ends..lol)
i’ll jsut say bout siler, sure he hasnt been playing organized ball that long and has yet to play an nba game, but as far as guarding shaq or dwight, he’d do just as good a job as most. there are maybe five guys in the league that can guard them (and 3 play for celtics)
Mystikal
August 30th, 2009
7:42 pm
Disregard that last sentence
vava74
August 30th, 2009
7:47 pm
Woody is still learning and I think that his strengths are very important.
As for player development, much has been said about it and honestly it doesn’t match up:
1. Everyone says and acknowledges that J-Smoove, Marvin and Al have improved since they got into the league. And so did Childress while he was here and, to a lesser degree, Solo as well.
2. The perception that Woody is not a good player developer is based on the fact that Salim and Acie failed to live up to the their respective expectations, in particular Acie.
The above is contradictory and I believe that it is easier to simply conclude that either due to injuries and due to the fact that he was never Woody’s type of player, Acie had his chance and things did not work out.
Salim has been ditched already by Pop in SA and by the Bucks since he was with us and in my opinion he should be packing for Europe at once to make money, burn the scoreboards around here and regain his trust (I think that, apart from his defensive lapses, his range is not enough to play in the NBA and that he suffered with the extra distance on the 3pt line).
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
7:57 pm
Vava74 ,
I like your assessment. It seems well thought out, and while anybody can quibble how you graded Woody according to your scale, I think you did a nice job of explaining the way you think, and then applying it to to Woody.
Jhan ,
Excellent angle. Not an attempt to bash Woody, but that puts things into perspective. I’d like to see how some of us would answer that, and explain the answers. On the one hand, I’d say Woody should be pretty good with a team that is comprised of mostly veterans. On the other hand, I’m not enamored of his offensive philosophies, substitution patterns, and in-game adjustments. Key phrase here “I’m not enamored.” In other words, me not being impressed does not mean he’s simply not good at those things. The Spurs and Lakers are used to being competitive on the championship contender level, and nothing lower than that. If they were to look for a new coach to replace the retiring existant ones, they’d probably want a proven veteran head coach who has a strong system, particularly one who can “get it done” when deep in the playoffs. If that’s the case, Woody would have little or no shot. If either team knew it was going to go through a rebuilding phase, Woody’s shot at the job becomes better. At the same time, you’d also have to consider what GM he’d be working for. They might respect him from a distance, but not care to have him working for them. Think philosophical differences…..
Mystikal ,
Good points. One example of an excellent coach who has not won the big one is Jerry Sloan.
Astro Joe
August 30th, 2009
8:16 pm
Woody’s resume doesn’t make him a candidate to takeover a veteran team with championship expectations. His resume suggests that if a team like the Thunder, T’Wolves, Kings, Nets, etc. find themselves with a vacancy, Woody could help them achieve playoff status.
If y’all think that the ASG is going to give another coach a 4-year deal (that’s what Avery Johnson wanted from Dumars) and upwards of $4M/year, I think you’re fooling yourselves. Woody is like a $10M player. He’s good but he isn’t a franchise changer. At the same time, he isn’t a journeyman either. Some teams only have budget for a $10M player, they can’t afford a max player.
Now with that said, it could be that teams will only keep a coach on a contract for 2 years until the economy recovers. (Unless, of course, your a multi-championship winner or the Utah coach). That is what the Yahoo article hinted toward, teams are cutting expenses amongst coaches. I appreciate that Sund has provided Woody with his best roster to date, so that he has every opportunity to succeed.
doc
August 30th, 2009
8:22 pm
hmm, for some reason article didnt make it to me.
Hoops
August 30th, 2009
8:40 pm
O’kay guys, we will have 4.6M left to sign 3 players after we sign Collins for the Vet Min. I would predict that we will sign Siler and Hunter. That leaves us with one player to sign. West or Flip. If I am Woodson and I am up for a contract, I would go with Flip! That’s an easy call.
Sautee
August 30th, 2009
9:20 pm
Hoops,
Keep trying, man, I know that somewhere Flip appreciates all you’ve done.
vava74,
You said this: “The perception that Woody is not a good player developer is based on the fact that Salim and Acie failed to live up to the their respective expectations, in particular Acie.”
For me, it wasn’t as much about living up to expectations as it was a decent opportunity. When you go for 11 pts., 7 assists and ZERO turnovers (in 15:28 on 2/10) and the very next game get a dnp-cd, well that’s not a fair opportunity is it?
For me it was THAT kind of thing that made me think he was a poor developer.
But you ARE correct that they both were ultimately disappointments.
The Truth
August 30th, 2009
9:41 pm
Flip seems to be picky these days about his terms and playing situation. Would he want a third PG role for vet min? The only upside with the Hawks is bird rights next year. I’m not sure we could come to terms with him.
Ken Strickland
August 30th, 2009
10:11 pm
JAHAN-even the Pistons, Woodson’s former employer, didn’t give him serious consideration for their vacant HC position, and he was definitely without a contract and available at the time.
TARRELL BARRON-I remember Jon “CONTRACT” Koncak well. He actually had an outstanding season after replacing injured PF Kevin Willis. Now that was a situation of forcing a player to play a position he wasn’t best suited for. Even though he was big, and 6′ 11″-7′, he just didn’t have the skills to play center. The one time he was given the opportunity to play PF, he excelled. Once Willis returned, Koncak went back to being the backup center. I think they paid him all that money because they thought there was a very good possibility they’d loseor be forced to get rid of KWillis.
ASTRO JOE-how many GM’s would consider hiring a HC that’s proven he’s willing to challenge the authority of the GM that hired him? If former GM BKnight hadn’t made the trade for Bibby, does anyone really think we would have made the playoffs that yr? If current GM RSund hadn’t resigned Smoove and signed FA’s MEvans and FMurray, do you think we’d have been the 4th seed or even made the playoffs last yr?
Ariose
August 30th, 2009
11:18 pm
*year or two
Ariose
August 30th, 2009
11:29 pm
“At 34, Ray(Allen) is almost exclusively a shooter. Forty-six percent of his field goal attempts last season were threes, putting him on par with Mike Bibby (42%), Kyle Korver (47%), Quentin Richardson (49%) and other guys who stopped attacking the rim around the same time they stopped wearing t-shirts under their jersey.”
http://dimemag.com/2009/08/whos-better-ray-allen-or-michael-redd/
I wish we could put Mike in a time machine lol. Take him back Six or Seven years…
Ariose
August 30th, 2009
11:46 pm
…..Siler > Collins…just saiyn’…
Big Ray
August 31st, 2009
1:03 am
Ariose,
Scary percentage, isn’t it? But that, like his defense, gets glossed over every time it’s brought up. Why? Because he “brings so much to the table”, is the most common refrain. Here’s the trick: it’s “true”, but it also shows just how bad off we’ve been in the point guard category for the last 5 or so years.
Bibby is what I would call a “substantial shadow” of his former self. He’s still got some substance, and he’s not incapable of playing good ball. But he’s not the player he once was by a good margin.
Funny thing is, all that and he only averaged one point per game less than Mr. Jameer Nelson, who got an all-star nod for nearly identical stats last year. Heh. Truth be told, I’ve used Bibby’s curse of having never made it to the all-star game against silly arguments (you know, the kind where people say that Bibby is so great, he doesn’t need to play passable defense and shooting from the arc on nearly half of all your FG attempts is just fine) , but the fact is….dude was robbed. If Jameer can be named an all-star, surely Bibby should have been named an alternate at least 3 times in his career.
The Truth
August 31st, 2009
1:06 am
Introducing our 3rd PG Option; An alternative to Flip; Bibby would be pleased with the reunion. Woody loves experience guys so qualifies.
Big Ray
August 31st, 2009
1:43 am
New blog up, y’all