Still talking about Joe!
I promise, this is the last time you will have to view this picture of Joe Smith. Next time, he'll be in the same uniform as Josh Smith.
HAWKSVILLE - More than a month has passed since the Hawks’ interest in Joe Smith was revealed to the world in this space.
I doubt any of us thought it would take this long for the resolution to come. I mean, school has already started. The Michael Jackson autopsy is done (someone’s going to jail for this one). The NFL season is upon us. Cash for Clunkers has come and gone. College football is just days away.
And still, we wait for Joe Smith to be signed.
But I believe the day has come. Today has to be Joe Smith Day in Hawksville. It has to be. If things play out the way they are supposed to my name will be intact – check the Twitter feed for my name-change challenge – and we should be able to move on from this saga and back to whatever else we amuse ourselves with this time of year.
And speaking of amusement, if you haven’t seen this extrapolation of the Hawks’ ownership situation, you need to. I understand how someone might try and make the move from “we’re not selling” to where this article took the conversation, but it seems like a stretch even to me. And we all know I’m not afraid to go off the deep end every now and then.
While we’re on the subject of the deep end, I had a great seat at the Dream-Sparks game Sunday at Philips Arena. It allowed me to view the crowd from just about every direction. Josh Smith, Billy Knight, Shelden Williams, Lorenzen Wright and many others were in the building. Josh has shed some weight since I last saw him. He said about 10 pounds. It was noticeable. He looked slimmed down from when I saw him working out in the gym at McEachern High in early July. He said he’s been working all summer on every facet of his game, particularly his mid-range game (those jumpers everyone wants him to take instead of the 3-pointers that cause so much cringing). He’s worked out mostly here in Atlanta, which is a departure from previous summers, when he spent most of his time in Houston.
Wright, who finished last season on the roster in Cleveland, is in a unique situation. He’s job-hunting, so to speak, and an intriguing possibility for the Hawks since he still has a residence here in town. Another veteran big man in that same situation earlier this summer, Theo Ratliff, was also at the game Sunday. The Spurs snapped him up before the Hawks could get to him. But Wright is the kind of physical, veteran big that could fit exactly what the Hawks need in a 12th or 13th man for this upcoming season.
My philosophy is that a team can never have too many big men. It’s clear the Hawks’ cupboard isn’t overflowing in that department, and hasn’t for some time. But now is the time to stock up, especially with every contender in the Eastern Conference loaded up front.
Some of you probably chuckled when you read that the Celtics scooped up Shelden. You were probably thinking back to his days with the Hawks and assuming that he’s an odd fit there. Not me. I think it was a shrewd move for the Celtics to go out and find a serviceable big body for an excellent price, even if he doesn’t play a whole lot this season. It always pays to have that part of your team secured.
If you don’t believe that, scan the rosters in Boston, Orlando and Cleveland and start counting big men. You can go five deep on each team. The Celtics start with Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins and round out the rotation with Big Baby Davis and Shelden. Orlando starts with Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis (who is a bit of a tweener but forces one of your bigs to guard him at 6-10) and Brandon Bass and round out the rotation with Marcin Gortat and Ryan Anderson. Cleveland starts with Shaquille O’Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao and rounds out the rotation with JJ Hickson, Darnell Jackson and Leon Powe (not to mention a dude named LeBron James who can swing over and play minutes at power forward if ever needed).
The Hawks enter the season with a group that starts with Josh Smith, Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and round out the rotation with Joe Smith and Randolph Morris.
Again, the more quality big bodies (you can debate the quality of one guy over the other all day long) on your roster the better.
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428 comments Add your comment
Sautee
August 29th, 2009
4:12 pm
Samuel,
You asked this : “STO,
Ok, but when is the last time anybody from the hawks finished top 7 in anything?”
Joe Johnson, 3rd, minutes played 08-09
But at LEAST he made the All-Star Game.
Hoops
August 29th, 2009
4:18 pm
S T O,
You’re right, I’m just dreaming!
bigdave
August 29th, 2009
4:21 pm
Jacko wants out of Oakland…
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4430906
that Hawk team had heart/fight… i remember when he bucked on Lebron at Phillips…
Stating the Obvious
August 29th, 2009
4:39 pm
JJ was 10th in scoring in 2007. Then teams figured out that Woody had no plan B and that was that.
UGA
August 29th, 2009
4:46 pm
Per the last Hawks article, it looks like Collins is about to sign. That would bring our signed players to 12. I would not think that we’d dress Collins and Morris both. My guess is we’d dress Collins and Mario West opening night.
cp
August 29th, 2009
4:46 pm
I see where you’re coming from Astro but Ive never been a fan of Collins. I’m shocked he has lasted this long in the league. But as they say you can never have too much size. With that said I’m thinking Siler and Hunter make the team. Ive given up on the thought of Gerald Green coming here.
Lurker Above
August 29th, 2009
5:02 pm
I like the idea of bringing in Jason Collins. I’ve got crazy idea, let’s bring in his brother Jarron also, not as another center, but as a third PF. Seriously, Jarron is unlike his brother in that he is one inch shorter than Jason, is more athletic, they are used to playing with each other, and most importantly, we still could use some size depth at the PF position now that the East has gotten bigger.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2009
5:04 pm
cp, I’m about IQ for this team and neiher Ely nor Green have much of that.
With Collins close to being a Hawk, I wonder what happens with Siler. Will Sund want to carry 5 centers on his sqaud (Horford, Zaza, Collins, Morris & Siler)? Goos to see that Hunter will be in the veteran’s camp. Here’s hoping that Sund would be willing to use a portion of the $2M he picked up earlier from Houston to buy-out Morris if he struggles to dominate Siler in October.
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2009
5:30 pm
Collins has size, height, experience and a willingness to be physical. Those are attributes that will be very valuable against the bigger more physical teams that’s given us trouble in the past. With JSmith, Zaza, Collins and RMorris, we can now go big or small. If Horford goes down, like he did last yr, it’ll be nice to have a center with extensive starting experience to move into the position. Last yr, when Zaza replaced an injuried Horford, Solo was the only viable option off the bench, and Woodson refused to utilize him.
This is going to be one very interesting and exciting Hawks basketball season.
Woodson is definitely going to be extensively evaluated this season, and Sund has removed every conceivable excuse for not doing a better job. Injuries, depth, too much youth and inexperience and no adequate starting PG, or backup SG or PG can no longer be used as a justification for not winning more gms and advancing beyond last yrs overall accomplishments.
niremetal
August 29th, 2009
5:32 pm
I’d love to see Siler get a chance, but it’s a no brainer in my view to bring in Collins regardless of the effect on Siler. Collins is tough, plays GREAT on-ball defense in the post, and has a great rep as a locker room guy. Even if he never sees the floor, just having him around to act as a big man coach to Josh and Al would be worth it. And having him would also help us sign Siler.
PS – If Collins does sign, it’s yet another sign that all the silly talk about ASG being cheap should end. Siler would be a much cheaper alternative at $457k than the $1.3M that Collins would get, since the minimum for vets is so much higher than rookies. I realize that most people will keep living in 2006 and insisting that ASG will pinch pennies at every turn, but even a half-sideways glance at the past 2 years shows that’s not the case anymore.
niremetal
August 29th, 2009
5:33 pm
*would also help us IF we sign Siler.
(the point being that if we do sign a guy with as little experience as Siler, we need someone who’s been around the block a few times to help show him the ropes)
niremetal
August 29th, 2009
5:34 pm
PS – one more night in Italy and the niremetal posts will hopefully be back on at full blast. I say “hopefully” because I don’t want to jinx my plane flight home…
O'Brien
August 29th, 2009
5:45 pm
I really like what Sund has done this offseason. Woody will have no excuses, in terms of depth, injuries, and players being tired. In the past, we have struggled on the second game of back to backs, but we should do much better this year because we are deep.
I would not be surprised if they do not sign a backup SF. After all, With Crawford playing SG, JJ could provide some backup minutes at SF (and JJ is 6′7″, 240 lbs), and that would allow both JJ and Crawford to be on the court at the same time.
Marvin will get his 34 mpg, so the remaining 14 minutes could be split between JJ and Mo Evans (when we play against big SF’s).
MannyT
August 29th, 2009
6:11 pm
@Niremetal,
Minimum is almost the same for the team regardless of experience. The NBA picks up a portion of the minimum salary if the player has been in the league a few years. So picking up a vet like Joe Smith (or Collins) on a minimum deal saves the team about 1/2 of that salary in real money.
It’s tucked away in Larry Coon’s site if you want to check the reference.
Not calling the ASG cheap, but saying there is cash benefit to experienced players on minimum contracts. Most industries (including sports) are watching their cash a bit more these days. It’s a responsible thing to do.
BWAF
jerrywest
August 29th, 2009
6:12 pm
Nire,
Hawks pay 457,000 forJoeSmith and Collins – equal to rookie minimum. NBA pays the rest – close to 2 million total. For each player only 457,000 is counted against the salary cap.
Blast
August 29th, 2009
6:26 pm
Have a safe flight home, Nire.
A better, bigger name coach to replace Woody will cost a lot of money. Money I’m don’t think the ASG is ready to pony up. Woody has his own destiny in his hands. If his team has a great season, and the only way that can happen is if Woody expands his offence and rotation, I have no doubt Sund will retain him.
Hawks can carry five centers easy. Boston has close to that. You can never have too many centers. Collins is not flashy, but he is a banger. And I don’t see why Siler still can’t come aboard. Hawks have never had the luxury of having too many big men. Also the refs are so impartial towards the Hawks, so whistle-happy, we need bigs to replace folks in foul trouble.
True, I’ll rather have Flip back than sign Mario. Amazing Flip still doesn’t have a job yet!
Go Hawks!
terrell barron
August 29th, 2009
6:49 pm
Jason Collins < Lorenzen Wright?? Might as well go with Siler.
niremetal
August 29th, 2009
6:54 pm
MannyT – good call. Yeah, the league will reimburse the Hawks for anything above the 2-year vet minimum, so signing Joe Smith over an undrafted rookie only saves the team ~$475k, not the ~$850k I thought it was. Still, they still spent more on Joe Smith (or Collins) than they would on a rookie minimum contract.
niremetal
August 29th, 2009
6:57 pm
*costs, not saves
jerrywest
August 29th, 2009
7:06 pm
Collins is bad in just about everything that has to do with stats. He has never avearaged 1 block in a season despite starting about 500 games. Never had 6.5 ppg or 6,5 rebounds in a season.
I wonder why he played in 75 playoff games, more than any hawks, and started in 58 of them, only 2nd to Bibby. He must do something that the coaches like.
All we need him to do is to take 6 good fouls, play as an enforcer, set good picks, take some offensive fouls and do some intangibles. We don’t really need him to score. He can’t be worse than Morris in the things we need help in.
UGA
August 29th, 2009
7:22 pm
According to Hoopshype, Collins sets very good picks and does all the little things very well. This would be an excellent aquisition. For the last 2 years, we have not had any vets outside of Bibby and Flip I believe. Now we’ll have Joe and Collins to add to the veteran mix.
RealSquawk
August 29th, 2009
7:30 pm
Mike Woodson Mike Woodson
I have a campaign going for you man
Woody refine in 09!!
I guarantee you if that happens Mr. Woodson you will have yourself a contract extension, but if you stick to the same old same old not only might you not get an extension you probably won’t be employed through the season and if you are the Hawks won’t be in the playoffs.
One of the only things I like about you is your ability to be professional and say the appropriate things in public, but going on a tirade in public about your lack of a contract extension….when you don’t deserve one… you were right many coaches have been loosing their jobs and some other organizations would have fired you after being swept by a team that didn’t even make it to the finals…so Mike do what you have always done be professional and go out there and perform
Refine in 09 baby!! Refine in 09!!!
Ramon
August 29th, 2009
9:21 pm
AJ, you know that I normally agree with you on many topics. But I still struggle to believe there is a better coach than Woody who is unemployed. As I’ve said many times, Van Gundy, Johnson, Collins, Mitchell, and others have all had *more* talented rosters than the Hawks, and haven’t produced more. At the end of the day, its about wins. I would think most GMs have some sort of ratio of talent to wins (if that makes sense). And if they do, I would be sure to bet that Woody has a higher rate. Van Gundy has had Ewing, Mason, And Oakley. Then he turned around and had Yao, Tracey, and Battier. Avery had Dirk, Josh Howard, Jason Kidd, JT, and Bass. Collins had Jordan, Pippen, Oakley, Grant, Hill, Dumars, Hamilton, and more. Those coaches have had 8 total first ballot HOF players (Ewing, Yao, Dirk, Kidd, Jordan, Pippen, Hill, and Dumars). At the moment, the Hawks don’t have one. If those coaches couldn’t produce a championship ring with those lineups, why would we expect them to do better than Woody now?
More than anyone else, I’ll say loudly that Woody’s offense could fit on a McDonald’s napkin, and still have room left over to wipe your mouth. But when you put it all together as the entire season and games, Woody produces so far. And until he stops improving annually, I truly don’t see any justification of letting him go, unless Phil Jackson, Pop, Or Sloan are about to get fired. In the last 20 seasons, there has been only 6 coaches who lead their teams to the title. And many would say Sloan is a better coach than Brown and Rivers. I just say be patient.
Also, I’m loving the addition of Collins. Siler and Morris may do this and they may do that. But now with Zaza, Smith, and Collins you KNOW what you get with them. So if Siler and Morris don’t succeed like we hope they do, then you’re still ok. Its always better to have too many jugs of water, than not enough. I had forgot Collins did start in the Finals one season, and played back up in another season. How many available bigs can say they have played in 20 post season games in the same season (twice)?
The Truth
August 29th, 2009
9:24 pm
Twitter also reported earlier that Adam Harrington and Corsley Edwards was schedule to workout with Hawks also. Does that mean they are going to get contracts with the Hawks too? I am not yet convince that Collins has an imminent contract because some Yahoo sport writer said so. Also, Sekou mentioned earlier that Collins and Siler were in for workouts and that “they” liked good. I took it to mean he was referring to both of them and not just Collins.
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2009
9:38 pm
With PG JTeague, SG/PG JCrawford, SG/SF MEvans, C ZPachulia, C/PF JSmith and possibly C JCollins, Woody will have a butt load of depth, versatility, experience and talent on the bench. This will be our deepest bench since the days of CLivingston, ACarr, JBattle, SWebb and JKoncak.
Ramon
August 29th, 2009
9:48 pm
I will say Sund is great at getting value for the dollar. Last year he turned Childress would be contract in to Evans and Flip, and ended up with more production. This year he’s worked two miracles. He’s turned Speedy and Law’s contracts into Crawford an 18ppg scorer. And he’s essentially signed Smith, probable Collins, and probable Siler (or Hunter) all for less than what Solo makes in one season. That is wonderful. I will admire his craftiness.
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2009
10:03 pm
RAMON-name one of those coaches that couldn’t have taken the Hawks from 13 wins to 47 wins with the same talent Woodson’s had? What has Woodson done that’s contributed so decidedly to the Hawks progression that the other HC’s don’t possess? I’ll bet if any of them had been our HC, Acie, Salim and Solo would have gotten more opportunities to contribute and develop, and our starters, especially JJ, wouldn’t have been consistly overplayed. They have all proven capable of making adjustments and employing strategy during gms, and Woody certainly hasn’t.
Whether Woodson is the NBA’s worst or best HC, he’ll still open the season as our HC regardless of how any of us feel about him. Let’s see how the season plays out before we start firing him or awarding him COY and a contract extension.
Ramon
August 29th, 2009
10:15 pm
Ken, Collins had more talent with the Wizards and didn’t take them to 47 wins. You’re saying Acie and Salim would’ve gotten more playing time and been better. Is that the same way that Avery was able to get all star production out of Harris? Lol, I forgot he didn’t do that. Harris somehow instantly became better after leaving Avery, don’t think that is coincidental. You say they develop talent better, but what talent have you truly seen Van Gundy, Avery, and Collins developed? Collins got lucky with Grant Hill. Avery was given a 60 win team. So how did he really improve the team? Van Gundy was given a Finals team in New York. And a team in Houston that had the leagues best center at the time. And he ended up getting fired because he didn’t improve that team also. So if those two coaches both had teams that had 2 all stars on it and didn’t improve their winning total. How do we truly know they would work here? Larry Brown was the greatest teacher in the game and bombed in New York. All I’m saying is until Woody has peaked out and stops improving annually, its not worth the risk. Because neither one of those coaches (except for Collins when he had MJ in the 80s) has taken a lottery team and put them in the playoffs.
Samuel
August 29th, 2009
10:26 pm
“that couldn’t have”(speculation), “I’ll bet if any of them ad been”(speculation), “wouldn’t have”(speculation). The man presented you with facts and all you can come up with is: coulda,woulda,shoulda?
Still using pointless examples in Salim and Acie(proven scrubbs).
Mystikal
August 29th, 2009
11:21 pm
Wow, some peope just really believe what they wanna believe.
Mystikal
August 30th, 2009
12:16 am
Good news if hawks really are locking up Jason Collins, especially on the cheap. This will be the best depth hawks have had in the frontcourt in decades and we need it. Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando all have dominant low post players (once that can get you in foul trouble quickly) and being that we’re already undersized in that area we need the extra beef. Plus, potentially having Joe Smith and Collins will provide us with the veteran bigs we have been lacking to help Smooth and Al progress. Would still like to sign Siler even if we send him to the D-league, but he too could benefit from having veteran posts around. Think we have a good mix. We already had versatility at every position and now we (may) have some legit beef to back them up.
Ken Strickland
August 30th, 2009
12:35 am
RAMON-It’s ok to make a point, but at lesst try to make a VALID POINT. Devin Harris came to a team that was a legitimate title contender while Acie and Salim came to A team just trying to lose fewer gms than the yr before. Avery Johnson played Devin Harris 15.4MPG his rookie yr, 22.8MPG his 2nd yr, 26.0MPG his 3rd yr and 30.4 his 4th yr, even after acquiring future HOF PG JKidd. NOW THAT’S HOW YOU DEVELOP A YOUNG PG. When he was traded, he didn’t become instantly better, as you put it, he became a starter and did what he had been groomed to do by HC Avery Johnson, period.
What makes you think the Wizards were more talented than the current Hawks? Besides, having more individual talent doesn’t automatically translate into being a better team. There hasn’t been a HC that’s been able to get Washington to play consistent team ball since they were the Bullits. Regardless of the talent these HC’s have been given, they proved they could coach and win with that talent. You’ve shown nothing to suggest they couldn’t have accomplished as much, probably more, with the same talent Woodson’s had during his tenue.
Each of these HC’s have coached teams that were playing to win NBA titles, all of them used their bench and none of them played their key players into the ground, especially during the regular season.
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
12:44 am
Mystikal,
Right you are. Crazy, ain’t it?
Samuel ,
I recognize Shaq for who and what he is: one of the most dominant players ever, who is arguably still top 2 at his position when healthy and motivated.
I said “so what” about his all-nba status because it dad jack-sh!t for Phoenix last year. That’s like JJ or one of the other Hawks players making all-nba, and the Hawks not making the playoffs. So what? What good did it do the team?
I have to admit that I laughed when you referenced Gasol in your post. What, the same Gasol you were only too happy to call soft in 2008, saying that he got b!tch-slapped around by your boys Powe and Big Baby? THAT Gasol? I could just about hear the sneer in your voice as Boston took the ring, and you were all over the “Euro boy’s” ass like Astro Joe on a Halle Berry poster (well, not quite that bad
). Got some newfound respect for the fella since he took a ring while playing against today’s best center, eh?
Ramon
August 30th, 2009
1:02 am
Ken, I don’t have to show that they couldn’t and I am not saying that they couldn’t. I’m saying its a CHANCE that they would do good. But with being a chance they would do good, its a chance they would do bad. But when you KNOW you have a coach who the team clearly listens to well enough to still win, then why risk that for another CHANCE. The mere point I was making was Collins nor Johnson has had to coach such a young team. And in fact, don’t forget Johnson was with that team for at least 3-4 seasons before taking over, so chemistry was already there. You say no coach had been able to win with Washington since they were the Bullets. But I would put any amount of money on the fact that Washington has been to the playoffs more times in the last 10 years than the Hawks. And if you’ve gone that long with out playoff basketball. You don’t just castaway the one coach who lead you there the last two seasons, not for a chance. As I said, the Knicks and Larry Brown proved that everything is a chance when changing. In this debate, I don’t have to prove that those coaches couldn’t do the same thing. I just have to look at the fact that although we don’t like the way he does it, Woody is still getting the desired result.
At the beginning of last season, if anyone would’ve said the Hawks would’ve had the 4th seed and advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs *with* one starter out, and 2 starters limping, there’s not a single fan who wouldn’t have taken that. Woody may not have any offense, but he does have defense. And he also has respect of many of the players. There is no question about it that Woody is the leader of this team in so many ways. Although he’s hardheaded, ugly (lol), and isn’t the best at game managing, he is still the undisputed leader in the huddle, rather wrong or right. And once again, there’s no way you can show me where Collins had less talent and and made it further in the playoffs.
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
1:08 am
Hey Y’all ,
Here’s one for everybody since it keeps coming up. As I mentioned in a previous post, even the staunchest Woody critics have had some positive things to say about Woody this time around, and in reality, whether you want to acknowledge it…..anybody with any normal reasonable opinion has not been calling for his head (or a replacement) lately. So what’s all the fuss? My question:
What constitutes a “good coach” in your mind? What makes one guy “good” and another guy “bad” or “not as good?” What criteria or requirements in your mind make up a good coach?
I ask this because all the time I hear this noise about how he should be given a contract extension now, the Hawks are doing him wrong by making him jump through hoops, etc. I thought getting to keep your job in a changing management environment, as well as economy woes, in addition to ownership/management problems, was a good thing. I guess that doesn’t impress some of us one bit.
I also hear a lot about how it’s “all about the players.” When things don’t go right, it’s because the players didn’t do this, or didn’t do that. The assumption is that the coach was doing his job. It was just the players who were not up to par. When the blame doesn’t go on the players, it goes on the GM for not getting the coach the proper amount of talent to work with. But it’s never the coach. Okay, so if it’s ultra-important to have a GM that gets a coach proper help and talent/ability, and it’s on the players to do everything right on the court….
Then WHERE does the coach fit in exactly, and WHY should management be in a hurry to hand him an extension before he’s finished serving out the current deal? And please don’t compare this to players and their contracts. Anybody who follows the NBA with any modicum of seriousness understands that the job of head coach is the most precarious, most fluid position there is, and the contract status and money/negotiation situations are nowhere near the kind that players are involved in.
Why? For all the same reasons that coach supporters use to exonerate their heroes: that’s right….coach can’t score, pass, rebound, play defense or do all the “little things” on the court. You pay for the product. Nobody goes to a game to see a guy coach. And Woody, like all coaches, understands that. I wish some fans would.
Anyway, the question stands. Perhaps we will meet with better success on opinionated input than with “what’s a quantifiable way to measure a team’s offensive efficiency”, or whatever the question was…
And before anybody goes on a misguided rant, this is NOT a straw man, setup argument for the sake of bashing Woody. I expect continued success from Woody this season. And if he meets with such success, I expect him to get a decent extension, most likely the size of the one he got when Knight brought him here in the first place.
If not, then we know the likely scenario: insufficient success (whatever management judges that to be) will result in a lack of an extension offer. And then they’ll bring in somebody new with probably a three or four year contract, just like they did when Woody arrived. It’s to be expected, and I don’t understand anybody whining ahead of time about it.
But here’s an example: many of us would be quick to say that Mike Dunleavy is a crappy coach. Why? But he has kept his job for some time now, has he not? Again, why? Did management not get him the right talent to work with, or did they? Did injuries factor into his lack of success? Or does he just plain suck?
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
1:17 am
Ramon,
True, Woody is adamant about defense. And he does get the respect of his players for the most part. He’s not a lame-duck coach right now. But he does have to prove continued success. Some people talk like the man has arrived. Really? At what? I’ll give him his props, but I also appreciate that the man realizes the job ain’t but halfway done. If he took the attitude of some of his diehard supporters, dude would not be motivated to do anymore than try and coach the team to the exact same result as last year…year after year…because he’s “arrived.” Heh. I like the fact that he wants to continue to keep working to get better. And while like any fan, I have ideas about what he needs to work on, it’s on him to recognize what really needs to be worked on, and it’s on his boss to point that stuff out to him as he sees fit.
I’m hopeful for the future. Finding a better coach is something you do when you are certain that you need to do so to get better. Woody still has another season to prove to management that this won’t be necessary. I say let him prove it.
Ramon
August 30th, 2009
1:17 am
Ken, another thing, on the Acie Law scenario. Harris came to a team and stayed healthy. Something Law couldn’t accomplish either of the seasons he was on the team. Harris went to a team where they didn’t have a pg. Name the back up PG for the Mavs Harris’s first 3 years. If you look you’ll see it was Lue one season, and AJ another. If you recall, before his first injury, Acie got pretty good minutes, although he was on a team that had 3 other PGs. Its easy to get minutes when there is no other PG there. And many scouts and reporters have come out and said how much Johnson hurt Harris’ production. Even Harris stated he was glad to be traded from Johnson’s coaching.
In the case of Salim, Salim is so good that he’s averaged how many minutes per game since leaving the Hawks? Pop couldn’t find room for Salim, but he doesn’t get bashed. Yet Woody gets bashed because Salim didn’t know defensive rotations, and offensive placements. Interesting.
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
1:20 am
I’m all for bringing Jason Collins on board. Depth, depth, depth, and Woody should make use of it (finally). This very likely puts Siler on the bubble (better have an awesome training camp, fella). On the other hand, it may help out Hunter and even West. You never know.
I think Sund is doing a heck of a job.
Big Ray
August 30th, 2009
1:23 am
I can’t bash Woody for Salim. Law was victimized by injuries and the arrival of Bibby. Still, you always look to groom a young pg behind the able-bodied veteran. Acie’s game never impressed Woody. That’s the bottom line. Not a bash on Woody, just a statement that is easily backed by comments made by both Acie and Woody.
Ramon
August 30th, 2009
1:38 am
Big Ray, I totally agree with you on Woody. I’m not a big supporter of Woody’s. I just don’t like everyone assuming that any coach out there would do better than what Woody is doing. I just feel like there’s no real way to know that for sure. Certain coaches are right for situations, and it all has to add up. With this line up, I’d be satisfied with Woody, if he shows improved game management, more offensive movement, and makes it to a game 6 in the second round of the play offs. I mean everyone already saying the Hawks can’t match up with the top 3 teams. When you looking at bang for buck, unfortunately, there’s no one out there who has more value, not at the moment. Honestly, more than any of the coaches mentioned here, the perfect coach for this team in my mind is retired and won’t coach again. And that’s Hubie Brown.
vava74
August 30th, 2009
5:02 am
First of all, make a list of available coaches which are, without a shadow of a doubt, better that Woody:
Doug Collins cannot enter this list, his record and his lack of interest in accepting coaching jobs speak for themselves.
Second:
Siler is 7′0 and 300lbs, but he has not played a single NBA game to date: do you seriously believe that he would know how to defend down low Howard, Shaq, Perkins, Wallace, …??
Collins has proven to be an effective defensive player and someone who always bring his A game, a limited A game, but a useful one.
There is no discussion even when you try to compare Devin Harris with Acie and Salim, they are simply not on the same page. How good are they? We don’t know, however, not as good as Devin Harris who immediately showed he belonged in the league.
Samuel
August 30th, 2009
5:47 am
No One “defends” Shaq. They just foul like sissies.
vava74
August 30th, 2009
5:52 am
Samuel, that is not correct: some players know how and are willing to box out Shaq (specially now) and limit his usefulness.
If you were right, Shaq would be averaging 30+ ppg.
vava74
August 30th, 2009
5:54 am
The above does not mean that we should not sign Siler.
I think we should and send him to the NBDL for long stints in order for him to be in contact with similar but more experienced competition.
The same applies for Othello Hunter who has shown he is a willing work horse and could develop into an extremely useful defensive/rebounding combo forward, something which, in the playoffs, comes very very handy.
Clyde
August 30th, 2009
8:04 am
THIS BLOG DONE FELL OFF LIKE BIG RAY’S LOVE LIFE.
niremetal
August 30th, 2009
8:53 am
What the hell is that, Clyde?
But how’s this: This blog done fell off like Sean Williams’s minutes.
The Truth
August 30th, 2009
9:17 am
I STAND CORRECTED. I had not read Sekou’s article about Jason Collins. According to Sekou, it appears the Hawks will likely make him an offer. I guess we are at that point inside the barrel where anything decent will look good. Enough Said
The Truth
August 30th, 2009
9:56 am
Since the Hawks will use Joe Smith to backup both PF and SF, the only position of need left to filled is another backup PG. I agree, signing Siler at this point becomes a bigger question mark. I can’t imagine the anxiety he must be feeling knowing his chances have just gotten even slimmer. Since Woody will be really coaching “scared” this year, other then Teague, his tolerance for teaching any players will be zero. Perhaps this explains his preference for players with high basketball I.Q. regardless of their skill set.
Ramon
August 30th, 2009
10:40 am
Rambis will have Laimbeer and Theus on his staff. That to go along with a young (hopefully healthy) Jefferson, it could be a not so long turn around coming up for Minnesota. It wasn’t so long ago that they weren’t scared to go in luxury land to field a good team.
The Truth
August 30th, 2009
10:40 am
Could this be insight into the Cavs play book for the upcoming season?