Still talking about Joe!
I promise, this is the last time you will have to view this picture of Joe Smith. Next time, he'll be in the same uniform as Josh Smith.
HAWKSVILLE - More than a month has passed since the Hawks’ interest in Joe Smith was revealed to the world in this space.
I doubt any of us thought it would take this long for the resolution to come. I mean, school has already started. The Michael Jackson autopsy is done (someone’s going to jail for this one). The NFL season is upon us. Cash for Clunkers has come and gone. College football is just days away.
And still, we wait for Joe Smith to be signed.
But I believe the day has come. Today has to be Joe Smith Day in Hawksville. It has to be. If things play out the way they are supposed to my name will be intact – check the Twitter feed for my name-change challenge – and we should be able to move on from this saga and back to whatever else we amuse ourselves with this time of year.
And speaking of amusement, if you haven’t seen this extrapolation of the Hawks’ ownership situation, you need to. I understand how someone might try and make the move from “we’re not selling” to where this article took the conversation, but it seems like a stretch even to me. And we all know I’m not afraid to go off the deep end every now and then.
While we’re on the subject of the deep end, I had a great seat at the Dream-Sparks game Sunday at Philips Arena. It allowed me to view the crowd from just about every direction. Josh Smith, Billy Knight, Shelden Williams, Lorenzen Wright and many others were in the building. Josh has shed some weight since I last saw him. He said about 10 pounds. It was noticeable. He looked slimmed down from when I saw him working out in the gym at McEachern High in early July. He said he’s been working all summer on every facet of his game, particularly his mid-range game (those jumpers everyone wants him to take instead of the 3-pointers that cause so much cringing). He’s worked out mostly here in Atlanta, which is a departure from previous summers, when he spent most of his time in Houston.
Wright, who finished last season on the roster in Cleveland, is in a unique situation. He’s job-hunting, so to speak, and an intriguing possibility for the Hawks since he still has a residence here in town. Another veteran big man in that same situation earlier this summer, Theo Ratliff, was also at the game Sunday. The Spurs snapped him up before the Hawks could get to him. But Wright is the kind of physical, veteran big that could fit exactly what the Hawks need in a 12th or 13th man for this upcoming season.
My philosophy is that a team can never have too many big men. It’s clear the Hawks’ cupboard isn’t overflowing in that department, and hasn’t for some time. But now is the time to stock up, especially with every contender in the Eastern Conference loaded up front.
Some of you probably chuckled when you read that the Celtics scooped up Shelden. You were probably thinking back to his days with the Hawks and assuming that he’s an odd fit there. Not me. I think it was a shrewd move for the Celtics to go out and find a serviceable big body for an excellent price, even if he doesn’t play a whole lot this season. It always pays to have that part of your team secured.
If you don’t believe that, scan the rosters in Boston, Orlando and Cleveland and start counting big men. You can go five deep on each team. The Celtics start with Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins and round out the rotation with Big Baby Davis and Shelden. Orlando starts with Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis (who is a bit of a tweener but forces one of your bigs to guard him at 6-10) and Brandon Bass and round out the rotation with Marcin Gortat and Ryan Anderson. Cleveland starts with Shaquille O’Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao and rounds out the rotation with JJ Hickson, Darnell Jackson and Leon Powe (not to mention a dude named LeBron James who can swing over and play minutes at power forward if ever needed).
The Hawks enter the season with a group that starts with Josh Smith, Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and round out the rotation with Joe Smith and Randolph Morris.
Again, the more quality big bodies (you can debate the quality of one guy over the other all day long) on your roster the better.
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428 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:54 pm
Mystikal,
Exactly what I’m saying about the Wiz. I think their new coach is Flip Saunders. He’s a good coach, but I don’t know precisely what he can or will do with this squad.
As for Orlando, I think they’ll go with this lineup: Howard, Lewis, Pietrus, Carter, Nelson…..or this one…Howard, Bass, Lewis, Carter, Nelson.
I think the only question will be whether Pietrus starts, or Bass starts. Howard, Nelson, and Carter just about have to be locks as starters.
Samuel
August 27th, 2009
10:04 pm
I don’t believe we have a realistic chance of cracking the top 3. I just think the gap is too wide. I hope i’m proven wrong but I just can’t see it. I think we could however, knock Boston out in a second round series. We’ve proven that we can take them to the limit.
I actually think we will in fact be battling it out with Washington for the 4 spot. Say what you want about what Arenas is or is not but let’s not forget how good he was before his injury. He was playing as well as anybody in the league, including Kobe.
All indications are that he is fully recovered from his injury and is lighter and hungry to get back to that level. “IF” he does and the rest of that crew recovers from injury, you have 3 potential allstars(Arenas, Butler and Jamison) and one of the best young bigs in McGee(IMO) in the league. I really think they panicked and got rid of Jordan too soon. We’ll see what Flip does but this team could be very dangerous.
MannyT
August 27th, 2009
10:30 pm
Ray,
Glad to see that someone remembered canniblogging. Without the chianti & fava beans it just ain’t the same. Sund has done well this summer. Makes up for the lazy summer of 2008.
I can’t wait to see what Woody does with this squad? I am eager to see his in game adjustments. Hopefully they will improve with the additional seasoning of the roster.
Just finished my main fantasy football draft. Now I’ll look around for another league. Any of you hoops junkies got one going?
BWAF
MannyT
August 27th, 2009
10:34 pm
Don’t short sell the offensive wizardry of Flip Saunders
I think the Hawks can hold the 4th spot, but there will be much more competition from other teams.
That means there should be plenty of good games to see at the Highlight Factory.
BWAF
Mystikal
August 27th, 2009
11:06 pm
Know this cannot happen and is completely pointless, but this would’ve been an awesome lineup for us:
Bibby, Teague (Crawford)
JJ, Crawford (Childress)
Marv, Childress, Gerald Green
Josh, Joe, Hunter
Al, Zaza, Siler
This is if we traded, Mo Evans and Randmo for nothing to clear cap
space to sign Chills. Guy can dream right.
Ken Strickland
August 27th, 2009
11:38 pm
MYSTIKAL-don’t feel like the lone ranger. I often think about how much better we’d be with Chills on our roster. He gets rebounds, assists, plays excellent DEF, plays 3 positions effectively and scored points just like Flip without hogging the ball or having a single play run for him. You don’t see that type of production or player often. People complained about his unusual but accurate jumpshot, but I’d love to see him shooting it again in a Hawks uniform.
rusty
August 27th, 2009
11:49 pm
The key to our success this season this year will be jj. i dont mean how many points he will score but how he is willing to change his game.
we cant afford to have him dominate our offense by constant dribbling.
we need to have our point guard dominate our offense whether it is bibby or teague. this team will not run effiently with joe dominating our offense
Mystikal
August 27th, 2009
11:51 pm
With any player, regardless of the athleticism and skill, it is the heart that separates the great ones. That burning desire that comes from within to be the best, can’t be taught. Not just talking about superstars either, role players can play with that same fire. They may not get the pub that others get but when the moment comes they are ready. We need guys like that, the Robert Horry, Charles Oakley, Derrick Fisher, John Paxons. These type of players are a dying breed.
Ed
August 28th, 2009
1:38 am
Orlando is going to be hurt by not having Hedo. VInce may be a more talented player but Turk was perfect for the system Van Gundy was running. Stan will now have to restructure his offense as Carter doesn’t bring to the table what Hedo did. There have been too many changes not to think Orlando couldn’t stumble this year because of it. As mentioned previously, Rashard missing the first 10 games only adds to the problem of forming a new chemistry for this team.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
5:38 am
I remember how good Arenas was. I also remember how good the Wiz were without him, when their other two main guys were healthy and ballin’ their butts off. McGee is a young guy who could be on the rise. But last year was not a revelation. We’ll see how well Arenas meshes with his teammates. That team is NOT the same.
I have respect for Flip, but I seem to recall a lot of jeering and scoffing when people were mentioning him coming here and coaching if Woody got fired.
If he’s not better than Woody, surely we have nothing to fear where Washington is concerned, right? Heh.
Either way, we will face stiffer competition from other teams. Moreso than last year. Especially if teams like Philly can figure out how to make a successful combo out of Iggy and Brand.
vava74
August 28th, 2009
7:54 am
I am sure that Orlando will be a huge flop this season and that they will lower their win total by at least 7/8 wins.
Howard is a physical beast inside but his technical progression has been slow and he has a tendency of disappearing in the crunch time (or being left out by SVG).
Vince is highly overrated, a defensive liability and a major choker. He is not an improvement to Turk’s game, quite the contrary and on the SG slot, I think that the Magic were well served with Courtney Lee, who defensively was very good already, and would give them stellar play for the future, whilst Vince should have only a couple of “good” years in him.
J-Nelson has yet to prove that he can successfully distribute his team’s ball in offense which should be very difficult now that he has someone who will shoot a lot more by his side (Vince) and will want many of the shots he would like to take.
I can see J-Nelson’s stats go down in all parameters with the possible exception of assists where he may have a marginal increase due to need to share the rock more, not really on account of him doing it better.
Offensively, J-Nelson and Vince are a bad combination of “shoot first, past second” players.
Defensively, J-Nelson and Vince are also a bad combination of a tiny point and sub par defensive player in Vince.
His weight can be seen by opposition to JJ in last year’s matchups:
Vince
Against ATL G4 GS4 MPG38.8 FG%.392 3PT.538 FT.731 OR1.0 DR4.0 RPG5.0 ASS5.3 STL1.2 BLK0.5 PPG 22.8
JJ
Against NJ G4 GS4 MPG41.0 FG%.544 3PT.500 FT.783 OR0.8 DR5.3 RPG6.0 ASS6.0 STL2.0 BLK0.0 PPG26.3
It is easy to see that JJ did not have a hard time shooting over Vince, whilst Vince had a hard time shooting over JJ (except from 3-point land).
kwooden1
August 28th, 2009
9:17 am
Orlando, Cleveland and Celtics definitely spent money to try and win this season. There is a lot of pressure on those teams to be better and to win. They were better than the HAWKS last year so on paper they have to be better than the HAWKS this year also. With that said, I don’t see any of those teams with a weapon coming off the bench like Jamal Crawford. The Celtics may bring Wallace off the bench, but he didn’t come to the Celtics to come off the bench! Teams are going to have to leave their best defender on the floor at all times with Jamal coming of the bench! Everyone in the league knows what he can do if he gets hot, so they absolutely have to game plan against him. Add that to the fact that he gets to the line and shoots a high percentage! In the game last year that he scored 50, he shot 18 FTs and made 17. He’s going to get opposing teams 1st and 2nd team bigs in foul trouble, because second team defenders can’t stay in front of him. It seemed to me that last year Flip couldn’t play the scorer role off the bench because he was filling in for Bibby when Acie was either hurt or DNP. Hopefully Woody learns his lesson and lets JC do what he does when he’s in the game. And if you’re worried about his shooting percentage look at the stats, his aren’t the greatest but not the nearly the worst, Barron Davis shot 37.0% on about as many shots in the same amount of games played. Jamal will definitely get better looks against 2nd tier defenders, while guarding less skilled players and having a low post presents in Joe Smith, along with an outside threat in Mo Evans on the floor. I really like how the HAWKS have added players improved the team while still allowing for internal growth.
GO HAWKS!!!
Kevina
August 28th, 2009
9:46 am
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/?gcid=C12289×022>kw=Atlanta:+Hoopinion
Al plays bad in first game then better in secone – fouls out in both.
GeeMack
August 28th, 2009
11:09 am
Ken Strickland
I agree with you on the 08 playoff run it was unexpected, but last year I expected the hawks to be better than what they were. We should have won 50 plus instead of 47. We should have dispelled the Heat in 5 games instead allowing a 1 man show to take us to game 7 in the 1st round.
You are correct. That’s why we play the games to see how it pans out. The Hawks will have a good year, but this is not an ECF or a Championship year for this franchise if every team stays healthy including the Hawks.
Ken Strickland
August 28th, 2009
11:40 am
We all witnessed the childish behavior of LeBron after losing to Orlando in last yrs playoffs. If the new acquisitions don’t produce positive results early, what are the chances of him displaying the same childish attitude during the regular season. It could also signal the end of his tenure in Cleveland.
Last yr, we did a good job of overcoming key injuries to Horford, Smoove and Marvin. With the addition of SG/PG Crawford, C/PF JSmith and PG JTeague, it will make it much easier to deal with the possible loss of Bibby, JJ, Smoove, Marvin or Horford. Crawford’s addition in particular would allow JJ to either sit or play limited mins if he suffers another injury to his ankle like last yr.
We may find that our greatest assets will be (1)the organic growth of our young players (2)our versatility (3)our ability to overcome injuries to key players and (4)our preexisting team chemistry, especially among our starters. I believe the Celtics, barring any key injuries, and the Hawks will be better than last yr. I believe Orlando and Cleveland will not be as good, at least record wise.
GeeMack
August 28th, 2009
12:18 pm
Ken Strickland
Bos, Cle, & Orl made changes to play for a championship. The Hawks made changes to have a better regular season and secure another 4th seed in the east.
We can keep hoping our young players make a splash in the league, but there are no indicators that any of them will have a breakout year. Smooves has all the physical tools, but lacks the mental preparation to be a great player.
The Hawks have a lot of good players, unfortunately good player don’t win champioships great players do.
Say what you will about LBJ’s so called “childish behavior” all you want. I will take LBJ action towards the Magic before I let a team mop the floor with me in my own build then go tell them good luck as we did against the Cavs.
JSS
August 28th, 2009
1:01 pm
Dudes, you’ve got to read what that nut Jeff Schultz posted about the Dream… I mean it is WNBA, but that is just outrageous! Off to the night session of the Weltkasse here in Zurich. P.S. to ill-logical, Bolt said yesterday that he is offically going to try the Long Jump, he’s been playing around with it… See you guys later…
Hoops
August 28th, 2009
1:06 pm
GeeMack & Ken Strickland,
I know at this point that we are all speculating on how we think the Hawks are going to do this year based on the roster that each team is signing at this time. I think that the Hawks are going to be a #2 seed in the East when this regular season is over. Cleveland or Boston is going to win their division and one of them will have the best record in the East for the #1 seed. The other one will have the #3 seed. I think the Hawks will beat out the Magic for the Southeast Division Championship and will be the #2 seed. They may not have a better record than Cleveland or Boston, but they will be the #2 seed because they won their division. I predict Orlando will have chemistry problems and it will take them longer than most people realize to get it together. They have lost 3 starters from their playoff team this past season and Lewis will miss the first 10 games. That’s a lot to over come.
If Boston is the #3 seed, lookout! The Hawks could have the home court advantage this time and game seven would be in Phillips Arena!!! Keep those legs fresh Coach Woodson. It will pay off down the stretch and in the playoffs!
JR
August 28th, 2009
1:49 pm
Have I missed what happened to Flip Murray? I know Crawford is supposed to be his upgrade, but is Flip still on the roster? I know we need some size, but Flip seems a better-than-average, off the bench guy who can play three spots adequately, if not spectacularly.
kwooden1
August 28th, 2009
1:58 pm
KevinA there are a view short clips of the FIBA games on YouTube. Al looked healthy, clips weren’t really long enough to see anything else.
terrell barron
August 28th, 2009
2:29 pm
Now you people can get over the loss of David Anderson. lol! With the Joe Smith signing Anderson becomes an afterthought. At least with Smith, we know what we’re going to get.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
2:31 pm
Geemack, you said good players don’t win championships. But on the Pistons, who was really just great? Rasheed was the only player who had accomplished anything before playing on that team. And then he was a former shell of his athletic self. So a team of good players can win, if they’re dedicated to defense.
Ken Strickland
August 28th, 2009
2:53 pm
GEEMACK-you are correct, a lot of us expected the Hawks to improve on the previous yrs performance, as well as make the playoffs. However, I don’t think anyone expected them to claim the 4th seed and advance to the 2nd rd of the playoffs. I also agree with your comment that the team should have won 50 or more gms instead of 47.
HOOPS-other than the possible disrupting effect Shaq could have on the Cavaliers, there’s one more thing to consider. The Magic soundly defeated the Cavaliers by exposing their achilles heel, their inability to defend the pick and roll. You can bet teams will give them heavy doses of pick and roll until they come up with a solution. Ilgoukas was the main culprit, while Shaq is even worse, and it’s a certainty neither will improve in that area.
The addition of Crawford, Teague and JSmith will make us far more effective at using the pick and roll. Orlando added BBass, who’s a good player with a midrange jumper, but he doesn’t have the OFF range, height and versatility of either RLewis or HTurkoglu. He’ll be an easier OFF/DEF matchup for Smoove. I just don’t see Bass replacing the scoring, assists, OFF flow, OFF facilation, as well as stretching the DEF, like Turkoglu. RLewis will have to move to SF. The 3pt shooting of Turoglu, Lee, Lewis and Alston stretched the DEF and made it much easier for Howard to operate, and much harder for teams to double him. Losing Lee, Alston and Turkoglu will make it harder to stretch the DEF. JNelson can’t shoot 3’s like RAlston, BBass can’t shoot 3’s, and teams will gladly let VCarter shoot 3’s rather than drive the lane. This team will have to adjust to a lot more that just a bunch of new players.
Cleveland just might end up getting knocked off of is high horse, and Orlando just might have made too many changes, which might require too many adjustments, to maintain their superiority over the Hawks.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
3:16 pm
I think JJ is a great player. I wouldn’t take any other 2 guard over him besides Kobe and Wade, not even Roy. JJ’s performance against Boston 2 years ago in the playoffs was one of the best post season memories in Hawks history, probably since Nique vs. Bird. Ironically, I think if the ball was in his hands less, his scoring average could easily go back up to 25+. And also if he loss 10-15 pounds (kind of like Smooth has done, and Kobe did a few years back), I actually think his defense would be even better.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
4:21 pm
The article on Hoopinion is what it is. Here’s the deal: International ball is just so different from NBA ball. I doubt Woody is alarmed in the least bit by what he saw from the boxscore of those games.
How many times did Horford foul out in two seasons in the NBA? Exactly. He will be better this year, not worse. If Woody is doing anything, he’s checking to make sure that Horford doesn’t show up in the injury column. I know I would. Talk about a nightmare….
GeeMack
August 28th, 2009
4:25 pm
Ramon
The NBA will be embarking on it’s 64th season and in 63 seasons you identified 1 team without a great players that won 1 Championship. That is not the route to take when your trying to build a champioship caliber team. In my years of watching the NBA here are the Characteristics of a Champioship team 1) Great rebounding team 2)Play very good TEAM defense 3)They have a great 1/2 punch or a very good big three combo 4) Solid bench 5) A good defensive minded coach.
Listen. To those of you that will say the 94 Houston team didn’t have a trio or 1/2 punch; that was the exceptiion not the rule. Same with 04 Pistons those are the exceptions. The proven formula wins out 90% of the time.
The Hawks made a lot of very good moves this off season,which should translate into some additional win during the regular season. However we did not take the steps neccessary to win a championship. I think Orl, Bos, Cle, LA, & the Spurs made those moves.
GeeMack
August 28th, 2009
4:47 pm
Hoops,
I love the fan support, but sometimes in order to get to the next level (for the Hawks it’s: CHAMPIONSHIP)you have to look at yourself objectively. Boston has gotten older, but Boston has also gotten better and deeper than 2 years ago. Listen Boston have dominated the Hawks the last 2 years to suggest that Boston couldn’t win in Atlanta in the playoffs is ludicrous. Listen Boston has beat the Hawks 4 out of 7 time in Atlant the last 2 seasons, and are 7 -0 against us in Boston during that same time period. That wouldn’t instill confindence in me as a Hawks fan.
niremetal
August 28th, 2009
4:57 pm
Buona sera, gents. Here comes a long awaited niremetal rant.
GeeMack,
I don’t disagree. But “great” players don’t grow on trees. The Hawks, to my knowledge, have not passed up a transcendent talent on the level of Kobe or LeBron or even D-Wade in the past two decades. So what was Sund supposed to do? And by what standard did Cle and Orl make “championship-winning moves?” Do you really think Shaq is still a “great” player? And by what measure is Vince a great player if JJ is not? And if neither of those are “great” players, then how is trading for them a “championship-winning move” and trading for Jamal Crawford is not?
And you think Pierce is better than JJ? Pierce does one thing well: Score. He’s not even “very good” at any other measurable aspect of the game, and he has never been a “do the little things guy.” He still doesn’t play good defense and he isn’t half the playmaker that JJ is. Oh, and remember how good JJ was when teams weren’t double teaming him? Yeah, well imagine him playing alongside Ray Allen and KG (even a 75% KG) on offense. And imagine him not having to guard opposing PGs on defense half the time. The Celtics would win 68 games.
And Kevin Garnett? If we’re talking pre-injury KG, then yeah. But now? I would be shocked if KG played 55 games this year, and he’ll probably be playing at 75% for a lot of those.
And how is VC better than Turk? Because he scores more? I honestly think that’s almost your sole criterion for judging a player’s worth based on your comments. Turk was a PERFECT fit for SVG’s system. VC? We shall see. THAT is the important question.
Did you really just say that Jamario Moon was signed for perimeter defense? Man, what league are you watching? He hasn’t played defense a day in his life. Wade even called him out on that publicly.
As for Washington…you do notice that every player you named is a perimeter player, right? Washington will score, but they will get annihilated on defense.
Oh, and co-sign Ken’s 11:40.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
5:15 pm
Geemack, we’re under to different assumptions of which level JJ is in then. Because I feel as if he is a great player. And although you say that Smooth doesn’t have the mental preparation to be a great player. I would point out that he is probably one of the most clutch players in this division (not only on the team). Does he push his limits? Of course he does, the same way that Lebron shoots too many 3s, Wade goes 1 on 4 and more. Another thing is, I would bet that Smooth stats are just as good or better than R. Lewis’s stats were at this point in his career. And Lewis was the #1 option. So if you would consider Lewis already a great player, but don’t see where Smooth will develop into that with in the next 2 seasons. Then we just disagree on that.
The wild card for Orlando was an overrated PG in Nelson. And that showed when he was in the line up during the Finals. And for what it’s worth, we all know Ray Allen is overrated. He scores 17 ppg, and gives up 23 ppg. Also, know that Smooth numbers are better than what Turk numbers were when he was that age.
I will agree with your 5 statements about championship teams (except for the Lakers didn’t really play great defense when Shaq was there). I just feel like the Hawks last season had #2 and #5. And I think the off season acquisitions will help with the bench, which will be shown in the rebounding. One thing I point out to is just this time last year, Gasol and Odom was getting more hate thrown their way than what people on this blog throw at Smooth. The Lakers are a perfect team of building from with in. Because Ariza and Gasol were the only players (and Fisher) who got playing time on this Finals team, that wasn’t on the roster when they were put out in round 1 by Phoenix. I truly believe with the exception of Bibby and Joe Smith, every one on this roster is still on the right side of the mountain with their growth still not peaked out.
Ken Strickland
August 28th, 2009
6:26 pm
One other thing that needs to be done to improve the Hawks this yr is abandon the primary us of the switching DEF. We switched to it last yr and our points allowed went up and the rebounding averages of our 2 primary rebounders, Smoove and Horford, went down. Smoove’s blocks went from 2.80 to 1.61 while playing the same MPG, although Horford’s blocks went from .94 to 1.42 while playing fewer MPG.
If we play a more traditional DEF and keep Smoove closer to the basket like before, he can increase his blocks to 07-08 levels. If Horford can maintain last yrs BPG average, we can do a much better overall job of protecting the basket. They should also be able to regain their previous yrs RPG totals. Add that to Marvins improved rebounding and we should be much stronger on the boards.
Stating the Obvious
August 28th, 2009
6:57 pm
Dammit Ken you used “Marvin” and “improved” in the same sentence. Now SamRod will show up again…
The Truth
August 28th, 2009
7:04 pm
I find all this talk about salivating to become the #2 or #3 seed over Orlando or Boston amusing. If we are playing odds with speculations at this point, it is higher then likely that we will finish #4 or #5 seed. So, for the sake of argument, if we assume the Cavs are in the Eastern finals and stay at #1 that would mean a repeat match-up with them in the second round if the Hawks are as good or better as we think they are. Last year, we failed short in the playoff because of inconsistent performances from our stars, injuries, a bad team match-up and a weak bench. This year some of those problems maybe corrected because of our acquisitions. Injuries will still be an unknown. The X factor will be whether our additions and subtractions will be enough to over-come the Cavs additions and subtractions. Since the Cavs was already the biggest team in the east, adding Shaq may not have addressed their weakness. Basically, their two combo-guard line-up with Lebron in their perimeter-oriented back-court was not the answer to beat Orlando last year where Howard dominated the paint. Their strategy to add Shaq was to defensively counter Howard but the side-effects will be unknown. So, adding Shaq has nothing to do with the Hawks but has everything to do with beating Orlando. Last year, their frontline was already sufficient to beat us with our aforementioned problems. However, the few times we have beaten the Cavs, was not because we dominated the paint; it was primarily because we out produced them offensively in the back-court. That opportunity will only get better with the addition of Crawford, Teague and GI Joe. Adding Shaq will have no effect on that opportunity. So, perhaps this constant quest to become bigger on the frontline maybe over blown; maybe we just need to play more athletic and consistent basketball. Other then Lebron, overall, it will be a match-up between diesel trucks and sports cars if Woody has the right vision.
Kevina
August 28th, 2009
7:33 pm
The Hawks have learned to win at home. A few against the best teams but mostly the wins were against poor and mid level teams. We could argue if we are in the top ten teams in the NBA but there is know way we are in the top 7. To reach that elite status we have to learn to play on the road. There is no way we are ready for a championship.
The ownership is still losing 20 million a year. I don’t see them going into lux tax to chase another high dollar free agent.
Samuel
August 28th, 2009
7:38 pm
Shaq made All NBA last year. That means he was one of the best in the best league in the world. I’d say that is great. You can be very good and make the AllStar team but you have to have a “great season” to make All NBA.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
8:40 pm
Kevin, name the 7 teams you take over the Hawks. Because I’m not sure I would. LAL, SAS, Den, Orl, Cle, and Bos are understandable, but who else? I wouldn’t take Dallas over Atlanta. The western teams get more wins because the gap between the 8th and 9th teams are wider. And besides Iverson, who is the other high dollar free agent still available? Petro, Collins, and the rest being named are all for the veteran’s minimum.
Samuel
August 28th, 2009
8:43 pm
Ken+ niremetal = clueless
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
8:49 pm
Guys, here is a question. Would you trade Marvin and Horford for Melo?
Samuel
August 28th, 2009
9:01 pm
Ramon,
You’re not serious are you?
Ken Strickland
August 28th, 2009
9:34 pm
SAMUEL-Shaq had a very good season and made 3rd string All NBA. He made it partly by default since 2 normal competitors, PGasol and AStaudamire, were moved to PF, and he benefited from playing in Phoenix’ system. His last yr in Miami his numbers were 14.2PPG, 7.8RPG, 1.64BPG and 1.4APG. Those numbers were comparable to Hordord’s 11.5PPG, 9.3RPG, 1.47BPG and 2.4APG, and Horford was our 5th OFF option. Playing in Cleveland’s system, Shaq will do well to equal Ilgoukas’ totals of 12.9PPG, 7.5RPG, 1.29BPG and 1.0APG.
I’m not sure the Magic will get more from VCarter than they got from Turkoglu. They both played:
MINS FG 3PT RB AST PTS
VINCE 36.8 1345 392 5.1 4.7 20.8
TURKOGLU 36.6 1025 376 5.3 4.9 16.3
Vince is a volume shooter, and he doesn’t a certain number of shots, he won’t be nearly as effective as Turkoglu was. Vince’s shooting percentage is slightly higher than Turkoglu’s was, but that’s because he drives to the basket more and gets a lot of high percentage dunks.
Samuel
August 28th, 2009
9:57 pm
Ken’
Stop it please. Shaq is one of the best of all time and had one of his best years last season. You bring up one season where the man was injured most of the season and try to compare him to “freekin Al Horford”. Dude, you are worse than I thought.
Shaq vs Horford. Not even worth discussing. Again, get a clue.
He benifited from the PHX system. What system was that?
Again, you compare a “pretty good” NBA player(Turk) to a probable 1st ballot HOF player. Sure VC may be in the twilight of his career but no way is Turk anywhere close to VC in any category. You say VC is a volume shooter but his FG% is still higher than Turk. Your excuse, “he gets a lot of dunks”. You really reaching. VC>Turk, anyway you look at it.
UGA
August 28th, 2009
10:26 pm
Well, in looking way ahead, it looks like the Nuggets will be without JR Smith against us on Nov. 7.
jhan
August 28th, 2009
11:06 pm
VC > Turk is absolutely true. But is he a better fit for the team?
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
11:12 pm
I will say Vince still does average better than 37% from beyond the arc. That’s pretty good.
KevinA
August 28th, 2009
11:20 pm
Ramon,
W
we have yet to beat. Portland, Utah, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, and New Orleans on any kind of a consistent basis. Personally I would pick Dallas to be that 7th team. The other 4 teams are at the Hawks level or better until we prove different. Without much injury we might pick up 4-7 wins against this group. But there is now way we can go on the road and consistently beat these teams. Last year was the first time we really joined this group as a mid level team. When was the last time we took a Texas trip and expected to win one game? We are lucky to be in the East.
Roy isn’t signed, David Lee, Sessions, Nate Robinson,(previously Chills) I am not saying it is possible to get any particular individual player. But we do not look at FA like say a Mark Cubin does. He is constrained by rules, not money. We are constrained by both.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
11:36 pm
Kevin, the Hawks beat New Orleans the one time they played them last season, and went .500 against Portland, Utah, Houston, Dallas and Phoenix. And the two losses to Houston and Dallas was on a Texas swing where they played San Antonio in the same trip. There aren’t hardly any teams who would have won in that situation. On top of that, Houston’s top THREE players will not be suiting up in Houston uniforms any time soon (if any in the case of Yao and McGrady). For a team that can’t rebound, both Smith and Horford had 12 rebounds against Utah in the win. And Phoenix will have a hard time replacing the production of Shaq and Richardson (suspended). And Steve Nash is the only point guard in the league who plays defense worse than Bibby. So I would take the Hawks over the teams you mentioned. Portland only have one player who can create offense, and that’s Roy. The Hawks do have Joe, Bibby, Crawford, and Smith who can go for 25+ on a night. Oh and I forgot, Dallas just lost their best rebounder (and toughest player) in Bass this off season as well.
Ramon
August 28th, 2009
11:40 pm
Kevin, Roy is signed. Lee and Sessions would be redundant when Smooth (Lee) and Crawford (or Teague) is here. Robinson is having problems convincing the Knicks that he’s worth the qualifying offer after his arrest last week. And truthfully, neither one of those three would be good enough to start on this team. And Lee truly is a system guy.
Rufus1
August 29th, 2009
12:23 am
One Elite Team
Boston is the only Elite team in the east. Look at Clevelands Roster and tell me that is a championship roster. Last year they were on a mission(like Chicago when Jordan retired). LBJ will learn what Kobe learned..you need a serious number 2(Not old old old Shaq). 2-4 is wide open.. and if we did not have some many injuries last year, we would have won 50+ games.
The NBA is about 2 things, Match-ups and Desire. We match-up well with Cleveland and Orlando..now all we needs is more desire.
PS Jamal Crawford is a good as Mo williams.
Big Ray
August 29th, 2009
12:40 am
GeeMack,
I disagree with one thing. The next level for the Hawks is not Championship. It’s bonafide contender. We just made the playoffs two years in a row after a decent drought. We made the 2nd round (barely) of the playoffs this last season, but were swept easily by a better team, due in part to injuries. We need to be a team that can contend in our own conference before we can be called a championship contender. Just my opinion, though.
Big Ray
August 29th, 2009
12:52 am
Shaq made all-nba last year. So? Phoenix didn’t even make the 8th seed, Jameer Nelson made the all-star team, and Mike Brown won COY . What’s the point?
Ramon
August 29th, 2009
1:26 am
Big Ray, you know the interesting thing about this championship contender thing. Every single team that is consider a Finals contender (SA, LAL, Cle, Den, Orl, Bos) each team’s best player was drafted by that team. Yet, everyone is asking for a block buster move, not realizing that the in house talent is what wins championships.