Still talking about Joe!
I promise, this is the last time you will have to view this picture of Joe Smith. Next time, he'll be in the same uniform as Josh Smith.
HAWKSVILLE - More than a month has passed since the Hawks’ interest in Joe Smith was revealed to the world in this space.
I doubt any of us thought it would take this long for the resolution to come. I mean, school has already started. The Michael Jackson autopsy is done (someone’s going to jail for this one). The NFL season is upon us. Cash for Clunkers has come and gone. College football is just days away.
And still, we wait for Joe Smith to be signed.
But I believe the day has come. Today has to be Joe Smith Day in Hawksville. It has to be. If things play out the way they are supposed to my name will be intact – check the Twitter feed for my name-change challenge – and we should be able to move on from this saga and back to whatever else we amuse ourselves with this time of year.
And speaking of amusement, if you haven’t seen this extrapolation of the Hawks’ ownership situation, you need to. I understand how someone might try and make the move from “we’re not selling” to where this article took the conversation, but it seems like a stretch even to me. And we all know I’m not afraid to go off the deep end every now and then.
While we’re on the subject of the deep end, I had a great seat at the Dream-Sparks game Sunday at Philips Arena. It allowed me to view the crowd from just about every direction. Josh Smith, Billy Knight, Shelden Williams, Lorenzen Wright and many others were in the building. Josh has shed some weight since I last saw him. He said about 10 pounds. It was noticeable. He looked slimmed down from when I saw him working out in the gym at McEachern High in early July. He said he’s been working all summer on every facet of his game, particularly his mid-range game (those jumpers everyone wants him to take instead of the 3-pointers that cause so much cringing). He’s worked out mostly here in Atlanta, which is a departure from previous summers, when he spent most of his time in Houston.
Wright, who finished last season on the roster in Cleveland, is in a unique situation. He’s job-hunting, so to speak, and an intriguing possibility for the Hawks since he still has a residence here in town. Another veteran big man in that same situation earlier this summer, Theo Ratliff, was also at the game Sunday. The Spurs snapped him up before the Hawks could get to him. But Wright is the kind of physical, veteran big that could fit exactly what the Hawks need in a 12th or 13th man for this upcoming season.
My philosophy is that a team can never have too many big men. It’s clear the Hawks’ cupboard isn’t overflowing in that department, and hasn’t for some time. But now is the time to stock up, especially with every contender in the Eastern Conference loaded up front.
Some of you probably chuckled when you read that the Celtics scooped up Shelden. You were probably thinking back to his days with the Hawks and assuming that he’s an odd fit there. Not me. I think it was a shrewd move for the Celtics to go out and find a serviceable big body for an excellent price, even if he doesn’t play a whole lot this season. It always pays to have that part of your team secured.
If you don’t believe that, scan the rosters in Boston, Orlando and Cleveland and start counting big men. You can go five deep on each team. The Celtics start with Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins and round out the rotation with Big Baby Davis and Shelden. Orlando starts with Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis (who is a bit of a tweener but forces one of your bigs to guard him at 6-10) and Brandon Bass and round out the rotation with Marcin Gortat and Ryan Anderson. Cleveland starts with Shaquille O’Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao and rounds out the rotation with JJ Hickson, Darnell Jackson and Leon Powe (not to mention a dude named LeBron James who can swing over and play minutes at power forward if ever needed).
The Hawks enter the season with a group that starts with Josh Smith, Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and round out the rotation with Joe Smith and Randolph Morris.
Again, the more quality big bodies (you can debate the quality of one guy over the other all day long) on your roster the better.
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428 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
August 25th, 2009
11:40 pm
KevinA,
Heh. Would that be any different from what he has to do when Bibby is on the court?
mred1943
August 25th, 2009
11:42 pm
what is the hawks training camp roster
Big Ray
August 25th, 2009
11:42 pm
So Josh slimmed down. Huh. All I want to see is that jumping jack we had running loose around here in the first 4-5 games of last season. Even when he came back he wasn’t quite the same. I’m ready to see THAT guy back. With a budding midrange jumper. And I don’t care what anybody says. He’ll be better with a jumper.
I.MUS WRITE
August 25th, 2009
11:57 pm
Its about dam time!!!!…………………… My Auntie Nita>>>>> Blo Wright
Mystikal
August 26th, 2009
12:54 am
HEY SEKOU,
Any word on looking for backup small forward?..Gerald Green, Rodney Carnery, Korolev..?
Thanks again for keepin us up to date as always, appreciate you!
BA
August 26th, 2009
2:33 am
What’s good doc, Ray you keeping these streets clean?
If they really got Joe Smith this could be a Terry Pendleton/Otis Nixon type of move. In other words, if all these cats can stay healthy, we all going to be talking about how much better Sund is than we thought.
I’m an admitted Hawks optimist. I was on here this time last year talking about 50 wins and somebody said I was smoking rocks. But this year the talent and depth will be there and short of getting Gortat or ‘Sheed this has been the Hawks most succesful offseason in a LONG time kids.
By the way doc, I’m always around. Never miss the Sekou Smith blog.
Ed
August 26th, 2009
2:35 am
JJ, Josh, Marvin, Horford, Bibby, Zaza, Crawford, Teague, Joe Smith, Mo Evans…that’s 10 players that will get playing time and that will be enough to give Woodrow a nervous breakdown. Any other players you may talk about bringing in, other than a trade, will see almost no playing time whatsoever.
niremetal
August 26th, 2009
4:06 am
Greetings from Bella Italia. If you ever earn enough skymiles to come here, I seriously suggest doing so. Just not in August…damn it’s hot.
I just wanted to give three cheers to Joe Smith and Sund and co. for wrapping up this deal. I was getting worried that no deal would be done before I got back, and that would be depressing. But now our roster is basically set – 11 guys under contract, and we can fill out the last 2-3 spots with whoever and still come out solid.
My guess is that we don’t bring in any more vet free agents. I think the roster will be rounded out by training camp guys like Siler/Hunter/West/etc, which is a good thing because the most important function for the guys at the end of the bench is to play hungry in practice to push the rotation players. For some reason, I don’t see Petro or Green playing hard enough in practice to push anyone.
Anyway, net here is expensive and slow so I’ll bolt but great news on the Joe Smith front.
Sekou Smith
August 26th, 2009
6:38 am
Enjoy Italia Nire. The closest I’m getting to on my vacation this week is a trip to the Olive Garden.
As far as the backup swingman front, Mo Evans is already there folks. I don’t know why he’s being dismissed by everyone. I thought he played well last year, for the most part. But the first 10 is solid, probably as solid as it’s been in the Woodson/Atlanta Spirit era.
The Hawks’ training camp roster hasn’t been unleashed yet. There should be a couple of interesting free agent invitees, though. And I’d imagine there will be an opportunity for someone to make the team via training camp (as Mario West has the past two years and Othello Hunter did last year).
A Thinking Fan
August 26th, 2009
6:47 am
Now the BASG is starting to show some leadership in signing Joe Smith!
Ernest
August 26th, 2009
7:06 am
Glad this is finally take care of! After our first 10, we still have RandMo under contract. Assuming we go with 14 players, I say we pick up Siler, West, and Hunter then call in a good offseason.
vava74
August 26th, 2009
7:13 am
I think that the 11 we have plus Hunter, Siler and West are an extremely solid group.
We have 2 players per position, plus a large body in Morris with 6 fouls to give.
The 3 extra guys should be sent in long stints to the NBDL to improve their games. I am sure that Hunter will develop into a Charles Oakley type of player and that he will be very useful in the future.
Siler is a question mark but it has been said in the past and I will repeat it: you cannot teach height/size and he has plenty of that.
Also, there are several examples of players who started late in BBall and developed really good skills. Sometimes it an evidence of raw talent when with just a few years of organized BBall someone reaches the plateau which Siler has already reached.
My gut feeling is that he is a keeper.
As for West, all teams need an enthusiast like Mario and he certainly will never harm the group. Furthermore, if we look on how Bowen carrer developed, this type of defensive minded players bloom also very late.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
8:23 am
Othello is nothing likeOakley. Oakely was Horford without the athletic ability and ball handling.
Siler could be as good as an NBA starter and as bad as a one time training camp invitee. Great experiment on minimum wage because the return of investment could be fantastic. Lets not set ourselves up for disappointment by expecting too much. He will be what he is capable of becoming.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
9:00 am
10 reasons Joe Smith is what the Dr ordered.
10. Pick and Roll.
9. He plays bigger than his size.
8. The elite teams get free agents like Joe for Veteran minimum. Cleveland wanted him. Hawks haven’t signed a FA like Joe in a long time. Hopefully, this will open a flood gate in the next few years.
7. He signed for Veteran Minimum which means the league will pay most of his salary and the Hawks will pay only the portion equal to rookie-miniumum.
6. He can play defense and offense for 10-15 minutes a game at a very high level. The other team won’t make a run when two of our starting big men are in foul trouble.
5. He signed for 1 year (short contract- no consequence on future cap space)
4. Playoff tested. He was injured against the Hawks, but he was awesome against the Pistons in the 1st round.
3. His midrange shots will open up the lane for JJ/Crawford/Teague to penetrate.
2. Woody has nothing to teach him. Joe will work fine on autopilot.
1. Joe will guide Josh/Al/Zaza on how to play each player in the NBA. Their developments could make quantum big leaps playing with Joe.
PDubATL
August 26th, 2009
9:03 am
Mario and Siler should be able to lock up 12 & 13 at camp. Assuming we go with 14 players on the roster, the 14th will probably just be best available min-salary forward (SF/PF). That could be Gerald Green, Korolev, Othello Hunter or some other forward we haven’t even thought of yet.
Clyde
August 26th, 2009
9:16 am
Did someone say Lorenzen Wright? I was going to keep quiet for a while until someone mentioned his name.
vava74
August 26th, 2009
9:27 am
Jerrywest,
I don’t understand your reasoning:
Oakley was 6′9” and 245lbs, warrior and a fierce rebounder with limited offensive skills in the begining of his career and later on with a dependable jump shot from within 15/12 feet.
Otello is shorter 6′8” but with much better wingspan and he will probably bulk up from his current weight of 225lbs.
He is a very good rebounder with limited offensive skills and, from what could read about him, he also has a warrior mentality.
To say that Oakley was like Horford without the athletic ability and ball handling isn’t that a worse comparison, given the fact that Horford’s athletic ability and good ball handling are two of his main characteristics???
Mike
August 26th, 2009
9:28 am
I wish we could just eat Randolphs contract and fill out the roster with Siler, Hunter, Mario and Korolev. That gives us with 11-14 a big body, pf in Hunter, a defensive pest on the wing in Mario and a pure shooter. Not a bad way to fill out 11-14.
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
9:29 am
nire’s comment from Italy supports what I was thinking this morning during my commute, maybe we need to bring Mario West back. I recall the many quotes from his teammates about how hard he practices and how much they enjoy watching him bust his butt on the court. Maybe having that kind of hungry player is good for some of the old heads to see. My initial thought (from purely a practical standpoint) was that we needed more size (e.g. Hunter, Siler, Collins, Skinner, etc) to complete the roster. But now I wonder if West should make the team for his intangibles. Could a vet like Crawford learn something from West’ tenacity on defense? Are his former teammates energized by his tireless efforts in practice on in cameo appearances? There’s value beyond what shows up in the game stats. And for a team that too often gets complacent (depsite the yelling of their coach), maybe keeping someone who is eternally hungry is a good thing.
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
9:31 am
Give me Siler, West & Hunter to round out the roster.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
9:55 am
Josh Smith needed Joe Smith like a little boy needs his daddy. Joe Smith could beat the Antoine Walker out of Josh. Josh should just call Joe – Master Nyogi (Karate Kid).
When Josh was a rookie, he played with Al Harrington and Antoine walker, two proverbial stat guys. Woody treated these two like all stars because they were capable of covering up Woody’s biggest weakness, his deer on headlight offensive philosophy. Young Josh wanted to grow up to be like them even though his skillsets are almost diametrically opposite to those two. And he is still trying.
darrell starks
August 26th, 2009
10:00 am
Positive rick sund have done
1.sign zaza, marvin, crawford, teague wait and see positive attitude thats it.
negative rick sund have done
1.sign bibby, no flip , sign joe could have sign wilcox, let solo go,brought back woody could have sign avery johnson, and if push harder could have sign afro puff chill.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
The Truth
August 26th, 2009
10:03 am
I’m wondering do we throw in Korolev, the 6′9″ Russian into the mix to consider. Maybe he competes against Mario for a roster spot. I like Mario’s hustle but we already have Mo Evans under contract who is a similar 6′5″ player.
The Russian has an interesting background. This kid was the 12th pick in 2005 draft and has been called a “bust” because he has not met expectation for his draft position. This is what the sport pundits said about him when he was drafted sourced at http://www.basketballnonsense.com:
2005 – Yaroslav Korolev (Moscow), No. 12 to Clippers.
This is a puzzling pick, considering the Clippers needed a help inside. They’ve passed through the likes of Sean May, David Lee, Danny Granger and Hakim Warrick.
Obviously, based on the initial scouting report, Korolev had some game or he would not have been selected the 12th pick in the first round. OK, so he turned out to be a bust. Maybe he wasn’t mature enough during that time and didn’t culturally make the transition properly into the US; maybe now he is mature and maybe now he is ready. Yes, the “maybe”, in this case, is a bit redundant and being called a “bust” doesn’t help when you’re trying to fight for a roster spot. But there is another player who was also called a “bust” because of his high draft selection for the same reason and we are celebrating him as a new member to the Hawks roster. His name is Joe Smith. This is what the same pundit said about him:
1995 – Joe Smith (Maryland), No. 1 to Golden State
The standards are always higher when you’re the top pick. Smith has managed some respectable numbers over his career (12 points, 7 boards per game), but considering he was drafted ahead of guys like Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Michael Finley and Antonio McDyess — and that he’s been a meaningful player on a good team only twice (’00 and ‘02 Wolves) — he has to be considered a bust.
Like our celebrated Joe Smith, we may have another diamond in our mist with Korolev if he can earn a roster spot.
At this point, deep into the rotation, we are really looking for guys to emulate core players at specific positions. Since we have a void at the backup SF position, I think a Korolev type of player is more needed then Mario since he is too similar to Mo Evan in body type. But to Mo Evans credit, he is a much better offense player then Mario.
So, if destiny can repeat itself, maybe Korolev could be on the same successful track as GI Joe. (There’s that “maybe” word again)
darrell starks
August 26th, 2009
10:04 am
2009 ATLANTA HAWKS COULD HAVE BEEN
COACH AVERY JONHSON
STARTER CRAWFORD, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD.
BENCH TEAGUE, FLIP, CHILL, WILCOX, ZAZA.
RESERVE MOE EVANS, SOLO.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
10:05 am
Oakley was a fierce competitor in the mold of Horford. They got the same sort of physical and mind games. Both had that reliable mid range jump shot, but no post up games. Both had tremendous thirst for rebounding. Oakley didn’t have Horford’s athletic ability or ball handling, but he was never a stat guy just like Horford. He was all about the team and made the all star team once by sheer presence. Horford has a much higher ceiling than Oakley. I’d say Oakley sort of had Shelden Williams body but Horford’s mindset.
Othello has to make an NBA roster first. The galaxy called Oakley is far far away.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
10:13 am
The Truth,
Agree 100% about Korolov. Great post.
KevinA
August 26th, 2009
10:17 am
West can be the guy to defensively slow down the NBA’s best #1/#2 players in spot minutes. West finds it hard to gain more playing time because of his lack of offense. Notable a consistent jump shot when wide open. Maybe this off season he can fill that hole in his resume. I hope Sund is paying attention. One of the last spots should go to a player like West. Has he blown his chance? I don’t know.
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
10:28 am
jerrywest said When Josh was a rookie, he played with Al Harrington and Antoine walker, two proverbial stat guys. Woody treated these two like all stars because they were capable of covering up Woody’s biggest weakness, his deer on headlight offensive philosophy. Any chance, whatsoever, that Woody played those guys because they were the only NBA-caliber scorers on the team at the time?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2005.html
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
10:33 am
The Truth, I agree that West and Evans are somewhat redundant. I’d like to see Hunter grow into the back-up SF role, but I tend to value rebounding and defense more than offense when thinking about guys at the end of the bench. And I admit that I am stereotyping when I guess that Hunter is more likely to become a good defender than Korolev.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
11:10 am
Astro
The point is that Al Harrington and Antoine Walker were Josh’s role model when he was a rookie. When Woody made Josh Smith our shooting guard playing next to those two, all the stars aligned to turn Pinnochio into a donkey. Hopefully, Joe Smith can be the Gemini Cricket that will turn Josh Smith into the best he can be.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
11:16 am
I must say I am cautiously salivating about Siler and Korolev’s upsides. However, West’s real value is in practice, and the energy he brings to each practice and each game can transform the entire team’s commitment level. I love how he stands up after every good play and is first to give high fives in timeouts. If he can’t make it to the NBA, we should definitely sign him up as an assistant coach just to keep him around.
Daniel
August 26th, 2009
11:25 am
The Truth- Nice Post. I am pretty sure Korolev gets a training camp invite. I like the idea of him on the bench.
Congrats to the Hawks for getting Joe Smith.
So now with Bibby, Za, and Joe Smith all signing as free agents, does this mean the whole “no free agents want to play for the Hawks” thing is gone?
alright Sekou, how long before we start wringing our hands over the JJ extension?
Daniel
August 26th, 2009
11:29 am
The Truth- If we take Korolev then no Hunter most likely though.
Please, Please, Please!!! SAY NO TO LORENZEN WRIGHT. Maybe the only player on the planet who could make Randolph Morris look good.
The Truth
August 26th, 2009
11:31 am
AJ
What interesting about Hunter is that he is really a tweener, a PF in a SF body. What makes him able to play at the PF position is his very long wingspan. I don’t know whether he can play SF with his skill set.
The Truth
August 26th, 2009
11:32 am
Daniel
Thanks
Daniel
August 26th, 2009
11:37 am
Darrell: I really like this line-up better than yours
Bibby, Joe, Marvin, Josh, Al, Za, Crawford, Smith, Teague, Korolev, Siler(?)
I will agree with you that the ONLY misstep this summer by Sund has been the dealings with Childress.
Right now (assuming Joe Johnson extension) I give him a solid B+, would have been an A- if he could have got something for Chils.
Daniel
August 26th, 2009
11:38 am
I left Evans off the rotation.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
11:47 am
Get the Lo out of here.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
11:53 am
Crawford, being a better scorer, ball handler and passer than Flip, covers up Mo Evans weaknesses very well. Since Crawford is smaller than Flip, he is less likely to steal Mo’s minutes than Flip would.
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
12:00 pm
The Truth, that’s why I think tweeners are valuable off the bench. Because they can play multiple positions. And let’s not fool ourselves, JJ will play minutes at SF. So more than a pure back-up SF like Korolev, we could use a guy who can rebound well, has the agility to guard a SF, the size to match-up with bigger SFs and can make a wide-open 18 footer for maybe 6-10 minutes a game. I’m not saying Hunter can do that next year but maybe in time, he can become that guy.
jerrywest, I agree that Josh Smith has never had someone of Joe Smith’s quality on the team. And Woody definitely did him a disservice by having Smith play a “rover” position in his rookie year. I had previously predicted that Josh Smith would likely be a DPOY candidate with Joe Smith on the team. But honestly, I think it may come from having a guy who could take away his minutes when he loses focus, more so than someone who will teach him how to play the game. I think more than a mentor, Josh has needed competition. If Josh’s head isn’t quite in the game late in the 4th quarter (as an example), he may very well be watching the older Smith playing the PF spot. And that may do wonders for helping the younger Smith with his consistency (and decision-making) issues. And who benefits? The team, either way. Marvin and Chill battled for minutes. Marvin even battled Evans last year for time. But Josh really hasn’t had to fight for his court time in the past few years. That is why I think this signing will be HUGE (to borrow Woody’s favorite word) for Josh.
The Truth
August 26th, 2009
12:01 pm
jerrywest
Crawford is 6′5″
Flip is 6′3″
How is Crawford is smaller than Flip?
The Truth
August 26th, 2009
12:06 pm
AJ
Good point about Hunter if he has the mobility to defend a SF. I’ve seen him play at PF and he’s fine with that wingspan.
bigdave
August 26th, 2009
12:14 pm
i dunno… one cant ignore the W/L record with Mo in the lineup, however, he was a personal foul waiting to happen… he contributed, but i think adding another pure SF to the roster would be smart. given the mismatches created with Mo on the floor trying to defend the 3 position.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
12:14 pm
The Truth,
Flip is strong enough to guard shooting guards, Crawford is not. Knicks used to put Crawford on point guards and Marbury on shooting guards because the opposite worked out much worse. Crawford wasn’t so bad defending point guards. The sorry part is Crawford is not only 2 inches taller than Flip, he also has Marvinesque long arms. With that kind of superior lengths he shouldn’t be so bad defending shooting guards.
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
12:17 pm
Astro Joe,
Great points at 12:00 about how Joe Smith would make Josh into something special. Sekou should expand on this and add a couple of interviews to make a fine article out of it.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 26th, 2009
12:17 pm
Stating The Obvious,
You are a moron.
1) You stalk people on twitter. You obviously are some immature 27 year old who lives in his mom’s basement and has no college degree
2) If Theo only cares about a title, then how about Drew Gooden? We could’ve gotten someone far better than Joe Smith for about 3 mill a year. Did he really choose Dallas over ATL?
You are an idiot, and if you are going to insult me, at least get a real name, moron
Blast
August 26th, 2009
12:27 pm
Finally, Joe Smith is in the bag. Good job, Sund! Now give me Siler, Mario, and Hunter and Hawks good to go!
Screw Lo Wright! We don’t need him messing up Teague as he did Acie Law!
Go Atlanta Hawks!!!!!!!
jerrywest
August 26th, 2009
12:32 pm
We need a fifth wheel big man veteran who is a thug. Let NBA pay most of his salary and Hawks pay only the rookie-minimum portion. Shouldn’t be hard to spend that money. Just don’t tell me useless Lo.
Hoops
August 26th, 2009
12:38 pm
Daniel & The Truth,
We think alike! I would like to see the Hawks finish out #12-14 with Siler, West, and Korolev. That would give the Hawks a real balanced bench. I like having a defensive stopper coming off the bench (West). This is especially important with the defensive concerns we have with Crawford and Bibby.
I like having a pure shooter coming off the bench (Korolev). There are those nights when the regular wing players are not hitting their shots. It’s nice to be able to put in a guy that can shoot the lights out!
I also like having depth in the post coming off the bench(Joe S, Zaza, Morris, & Siler) to back up Josh & Horford. In the East, it is going to be important to be able to go to the bench and bring in post players that can contribute on both ends!
Stating the Obvious
August 26th, 2009
1:37 pm
Tribe,
First, you’ll have to remind me how Gooden did down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Spurs. Oh right. AWFUL. He got toasted on defense so often that Popovich had to scrape him off the floor. You’d really rather have him for 3 times the price of Joe Smith?
Second, Gooden will get more minutes in Dallas than he would have here. Dallas has no decent big men besides Nowitzki, who doesn’t play as big as he is. Why would he come to a potential 47-win team to play 10 minutes a game instead of going to a 50-win team to play 20 minutes a game?
Lastly, whats a real name? Please, make me smarter and tell me. Is it only a real name if you borrow the name of an old hip hop group? Should I start going by N.W.A.? Beastie Boys? Oh sorry, I forgot. Hip Hop Is Dead.