True or False in Hawksville!
What's Joe Johnson going to do, take the Hawks' extension offer or leave it? No one knows because the Hawks' quiet All-Star and captain isn't saying.
HAWKSVILLE - While we wait for this week’s transaction(s) to be completed, why don’t we dive into a quick game of True or False-Hawksville style.
True or False, Joe Smith is going to sign with the Hawks?
True. And it could happen any day (if you haven’t leaned by now how critical that phrase is around here, I can’t help you). So what’s the hold up? Well, these contracts don’t work themselves out magically. They have to be negotiated and fine-toothed by agents and attorneys and whoever else has a stake in them. It’s not rocket science on this one, a one-year deal at the veteran’s minimum (of $1.3 million). I’d tell you to be patient and that things will work out but you’ve been doing that for weeks now. Again, the deal could be finalized any day now, so stay tuned.
True or False, the Hawks are interested in adding Jason Hart to their point guard mix?
False. It was reported somewhere that the Hawks were one of three teams in the running to add the veteran to their mix. I’ve since found out that someone got it twisted. The Hawks were never in the market for Hart (or any other point guard they were interested in adding). They’ve got Mike Bibby, Jeff Teague and veteran safety net in Jamal Crawford. If the Hawks were going to add another 6-3 point or combo guard to their mix they could have retained Flip Murray rather than hitting the free agent market for someone else. And before you ask, no, they do not have designs on bringing Flip back (that’s right, no more FlipMo Squad references around here).
True or False, the Hawks will add another veteran big man or two in addition to Joe Smith?
True. And we’ve already discussed two guys in particular, Johan Petro and Jason Collins, that could be in that mix. And that doesn’t include rookie behemoth Garret Siler, who will be on the Hawks’ training camp roster. But all of those reasonable fears about this team’s size and depth on the frontline could be wiped away with the addition of any two of these aforementioned larger humans.
True or False, the Hawks’ ownership feud is officially over?
Not exactly true or false. But things took a decisive turn with Monday’s court ruling in favor of the seven-man Atlanta/Washington, D.C., contingent. The options for the other partner, Boston-based Steve Belkin, were mapped out in today’s paper. One more option Belkin has that wasn’t listed: he can just walk away from his initial investment in the teams. He wouldn’t have to pay the $25.8 million in cash calls he’s missed during the litigation but he would also have to forfeit his 30 percent ownership stake. It will be interesting to see where things go from here.
True or False, the Hawks will sign Joe Smith before Joe Johnson agrees to a contract extension?
True. Barring a sudden change in the tone I’m hearing from folks in the know, Mr. Smith will definitely beat JJ to the punch on this one. In fact, no one seems to know which way JJ is leaning since the Hawks extended their offer for an extension. We’ve already talked about the figures (4-years, $62-$64 million range). It’s a huge decision and JJ has time, it’s not like he has to decide this minute. So I didn’t expect his process to be sped up just for our sake. If nothing shakes (one way or the other) by the start of training camp … then it might be time to start wondering what the heck is going on.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2010 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
528 comments Add your comment
A Tribe Called Quest
August 19th, 2009
4:58 pm
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
ATL.BIRDS
August 19th, 2009
5:09 pm
GIVE WODDY A CONTRACT EXTENSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jerrywest
August 19th, 2009
5:18 pm
Sekou – Great blog. Thanks for clearing up a lot of counfusions.
3 more questions.
1.
When “vet-min” was first established, the teams were suppose to pay the minimum rookie salary and the league paid all the raise for “Vet” which was most of $. Is that still the case? Does Joe count rookiey-minimum against the cap?
2.
How does Jamal+Bibby backcourt work?
JJ+Jamal is one of the best backcourt duo in the NBA.
On the defensive end Jamal+Bibby is one of the worst backcourt due ever.
3.
We could use 3 backups – a big man, a big point guard and a big swingman (bigger than Mo). Could Sund pull another coup by trading Mo-square (Evans+Morris) for an upgrade in one of these 3 positions? Just like the Crawford trade. Teams could buy out Mo next year. This would also open up another roster spot.
ATL.BIRDS
August 19th, 2009
5:19 pm
Joe Johnson needs to be signed before the 2010 free agency begins. If not, he will command more money. Lets get it done Hawks!!!!!
Show me state
August 19th, 2009
5:23 pm
Let’s go Hawks!!!!
Siler Fan
August 19th, 2009
5:27 pm
I want to see Siler on the regular season roster. Dude’s an absolute beast and still learning the game. If anything, this year, he can give our big men a breather and push some people around.
jerrywest
August 19th, 2009
5:31 pm
JJ has every reason to take a lower salary to stay with the Hawks. A small raise would give him significantly worse team. Check how Tim Dunkin signed a lower deal to make sure that his team can get better players around him. This won’t be JJ’s first large contract, nor his last contract. Why would he take risk of injury for a whole year? We saw Bibby/Zaza/Marvin happily sign recession deals. This is JJ’s team. Why would he not sign this deal happily?
cdog
August 19th, 2009
5:36 pm
SIGN JOE SMITH, JERMAINE O’NEAL, AND GARRETT SILER AND CALL IT A SUMMER ON BIG MEN.FIND A WAY TO KEEP HUNTER AND MARIO WEST
cdog
August 19th, 2009
5:36 pm
SIGN JOE SMITH, JERMAINE O’NEAL, AND GARRETT SILER AND CALL IT A SUMMER ON BIG MEN.FIND A WAY TO KEEP HUNTER AND MARIO WEST
MannyT
August 19th, 2009
5:39 pm
Sekou,
I think I recall during the trail that some of the Spirit ownership (Sydel?) opted not to make their cash calls and their ownership levels were diluted.
Seems like Belkin is savvy enough to have an idea of what his share is worth versus the cash call dilution. In that case, he could decide not to put any more money in, but maintain some level of ownership instead of losing all of his initial investment.
I have not seen any documentation on the ownership deal, but it seems that the option would be there since it was exercised earlier this year.
There may be more clarity, but I would not call it a clear situation yet.
BWAF
hmmmm.......
August 19th, 2009
6:02 pm
Add another big. And this season is make or break for woodson
BrittishAnger
August 19th, 2009
6:24 pm
Twelfth….
jgsbirds
August 19th, 2009
6:31 pm
this team is starting to shape up. all this chemistry good pay big dividends early in the year. need to win a lot of games early before the others teams newcomers start to gel.
Bertie
August 19th, 2009
6:37 pm
Sekou,
Local papers in San Juan reported that 7″3″ center Peter John Ramos was not going to play this week in a tournament prior to the FIBA Americas Championship because he was in Houston for a visit with the Rockets. They also mentioned that the Hawks were sending a scout to the tournament, that starts August 28 in San Juan, to evaluate Ramos.
He was drafted at 19 y.o. in the 2nd round of the 2004 draft by the Wizards and spent one or two years on the bench and in the NBDL. Now he is 24 y.o., has played the last two seasons in Spain improving his game and himself tremendously. Keep an eye on him during the tournament, he might get an invite to the Hawks’ training camp.
Sam
August 19th, 2009
6:39 pm
I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS SEASON
O'Brien
August 19th, 2009
6:40 pm
Sekou,
Any idea if Sund is looking to add a backup SF? (I like Mo Evans, but he is only 6′5″, so we need somebody 6′8″). Or is that Woody will play JJ some at SF, so Sund will not add another SF?
Assuming the Hawks add Joe Smith and at least one or two more big guys (especially veterans), Sund will have exceeded my expectations. Good job so far.
Ken Strickland
August 19th, 2009
6:46 pm
Since we already have MEvans, Teague, CCrawford, ZPachulia and RMorris under contract, adding JSmith would leave only one open slot on our 12 man roster. Considering how little interest Woodson has shown in developing or utilizing rookie projects like Siler, adding him would almost guarantee him little playing time.
I see us adding a vet Big as the 12 man, and I see us adding Siler to the practice squad, assuming we sign him. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MWest and/or TGardner added to the practice squad as well.
Mystikal
August 19th, 2009
6:52 pm
SEKOU,
THANKS AGAIN, for the update. Know we really appreciate you keeping us in the know. One last question, do you know if at all they are looking at any backup small forwards? Maybe a Gerald Green, Carney, or Korolev/Hunter from training camp. Was just curious, this has been one of the greatest off-seasons for us. Glad Sund is getting it done and hopefully Woody will keep it moving.
I MUS WRITE
August 19th, 2009
6:52 pm
Sign Siler/Petro and show Randolph the door. Trade Mo Evans for Damion Wilkins.
Jeezuz….Anybody else tired of the Brett Favre romance.
CDOG- Jermaine Oneal is under contract with Miami
ant banks
August 19th, 2009
6:54 pm
when you don’t have anything significant to say, just type “Fire Woody!” or “We need to re-sign Flip!” damn i wish that the season started tomorrow. alot of iddle chatter goin’ on around here.
UGA
August 19th, 2009
6:59 pm
Sekou,
Very nice article.
Petro and Collins would be nice additions. We all know our starting 5 will not play in all 82 games and we need some depth.
Is that too many centers to have?? ZaZa, Morris, Petro and Collins
Do we need another wing player like a Carney, Gerald Green or one of the Graham twins as well??
JAMES KIRKLAND
August 19th, 2009
7:00 pm
DAMIAN WILKINS, ENOUGH SAID!!!
The Truth
August 19th, 2009
7:00 pm
Sekou
Good job, we needed to hear some answers to lingering questions bloggers have posed about the status with this team. One of the Big you mentioned, Jason Collins, I really hope we can avoid him. Among other things, this guy is a terrible free-throw shooter. He could be liability in critical games. Even Morris shoots a better percentage. I know we are at the bottom of the barrel for Bigs, but it must be some better quality then him.
jerrywest
August 19th, 2009
7:03 pm
10 reasons Joe Smith is what the Dr ordered.
10. Pick and Roll.
9. He plays bigger than his size.
8. The elite teams get free agents like Joe for Veteran minimum. Cleveland wanted him. Hawks haven’t signed a FA like Joe in a long time. Hopefully, this will open a flood gate in the next few years.
7. He signed for Veteran Minimum which means the league will pay most of his salary and the Hawks will pay only the portion equal to rookie-miniumum.
6. He can play defense and offense for 10-15 minutes a game at a very high level. The other team won’t make a run when two of our starting big men are in foul trouble.
5. He signed for 1 year (short contract- no consequence on future cap space)
4. Playoff tested. He was injured against the Hawks, but he was awesome against the Pistons in the 1st round.
3. His midrange shots will open up the lane for JJ/Crawford/Teague to penetrate.
2. Woody has nothing to teach him. Joe will work fine on autopilot.
1. Joe will guide Josh/Al/Zaza on how to play each player in the NBA. Their developments could make quantum big leaps playing with Joe.
jerrywest
August 19th, 2009
7:04 pm
I’d love to see Damien Wilkins here. Wolves have him under contract though.
Anakin Joe
August 19th, 2009
7:14 pm
Ken, I doubt that many teams trying to secure home court in the playoffs will carve out time for an undrafted rookie. You sign Siler so that he can spend a year practicing and learning the game. And hop that in another 1-2 seasons, he;s ready to contribute.
Glad to hear Sund is looking at Collins and Petro. And thrilled that you didn’t mention the name “Loren Woods”.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 19th, 2009
7:17 pm
WE JUST NEED TO SIGN JERMAINE, TRADE FOR SHAQ, THEN IVERSON,
GET IT DONE ASG
JK
STOP ASKING FOR JERMAINE
terrell barron
August 19th, 2009
7:47 pm
That’s a good offer for JJ, considering his playoff performance. I know, I know, he was tired. B I’d take it, if I were him.
tj stroker
August 19th, 2009
7:53 pm
27th!
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
7:58 pm
I’m tired of PPL outside of ATl saying that Roy > Joe Johnson
The Hoopsworld blog is in an uproar because Roy was left off the list. The the Editer left a not saying that he made a mistake, and he would put Roy above Joe if he were to do it over again.
Roy doesn’t get nearly as much defensive attention at Joe does….And joe is just bettter period.
What do you guys think?
mred1943
August 19th, 2009
8:09 pm
sekou
Do you have any idea what the hawks training camp roster will be
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
8:18 pm
Heh. Well there we have it. All the yowling and mewling like around here like a bleeding kitten, and the Hawks already made an extension offer to JJ (albeit a “minor” raise to the $15.5-$16 million per year range).
And it’s JJ who gets to sit and decide if he wants to sign it. Did not some of us say that this was a possibility? That he might actually sit back and consider whether or not to sign the extension?
Jason Hart: knew that wasn’t happening. I can see where any pass-first pg fits on the bench, but not on the court under Woody. Common denominator amongst all of our guards, Teague included: initiative to shoot/score is not an issue…
John
August 19th, 2009
8:20 pm
Do not re-sign Joe Johnson he is too soft and don’t have that killer instinct that the hawks are missing from a leadership perspective. The hawks should wait until after the season and see if they can land chris bosh I’m sure he wouldn’t mind coming back too the city where he played his college b-ball at.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
8:23 pm
Ariose,
Newer is always better
. I don’t want to get into the argument about JJ vs. Roy. Too many variables, both indigenous to the individual players themselves, and to the nature of their teams. As many times in the past as I’ve favored such comparisons (for the sake of argument), I’m more interested at this point in seeing if we can maintain our grip on respectability and competitiveness. To hell with Roy. He’s a Blazer. I’m a Hawks fan.
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
8:24 pm
Joel Bringham of Hoopsworld is starting to really annoy me.
“an effort that’s likely to be awarded heftily next summer when he very well could become the highest-profile free agent on the market to actually consider leaving his current team.”
He keeps implying(or hoping) that JJ will go elsewhere. Im so sick of this guy….
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
8:25 pm
Ray, Amen sir. Amen.
gwite
August 19th, 2009
8:29 pm
Roy is better. More clutch. Plays with more abandon(effectively). Having said all this, they are still close.
Still totally happy with Joe, but can’t see reason that he should make quite what Roy signed for. Same neighborhood though. Just a little less.
RealSquawk
August 19th, 2009
8:34 pm
thank-you Sekou
and
Woody will Refine in 09!!!
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
8:37 pm
….when Roy AVGS 25ppg then MAYBE he can come holla@Joe….
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
8:38 pm
Unfortunately for us, Schumann is right about us lacking leadership. However, I am hoping that this is solved/evolved internally. Thing is, there are different kinds of leaders, and you don’t have to have a particularly strong, stand-alone leader. Is Dwight the same kind of leader Kobe is? I think not. And Lebron is not similar to either, really.
Perhaps a sense of cohesion and unity is more important at this point. From that fertile ground, leadership can sprout. A team of guys who are together at all times, both high and low, can overcome much.
Leadership doesn’t have to be a forceful, constant thing. It can be the simple action of rising to the occasion when needed. And even that can be shared amongst two or more persons. Perhaps this team is better served by striving after an unbreakable cohesion and the occasional game-take-over by whomever can do it best. Perhaps we should be looking for that, rather than waiting for guys like Bibby, JJ, and others to be something they are naturally not.
cp
August 19th, 2009
8:41 pm
Collins is trash. I would rather see RandyMo play than that guy… We need a back up sf with some size. Love the hustle and hard work from Mo but he is not big enough. Watching that Boston game on NBA Tv really pushed home the point that he cant guard the bigger guys. Gerald Green is available and would come cheap. Kid is only like 23. Give him a cheap two year deal and let him grow with our other youngsters. Siler, Hunter, and Green and call it a day.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
8:44 pm
Ariose,
I like Hoopsworld for some things, but some of those guys are just nutjobs. Their blog sucks. Ours (Sekou’s) rocks. Hah!
And lots of teams/fans/front offices want JJ to leave. Trust me, they do. Not because they hate the Hawks, but because JJ is a PLAYA.
True Hawks Fan
August 19th, 2009
8:50 pm
I went to college with Garret. He’s a genuine good person.
BrittishAnger
August 19th, 2009
9:09 pm
Ken Strickland has a point about the developmental position we’re putting ourselves in regarding our bench beyond what is spots 11 and 12, so I’ve come to a new crack-pot theory on how to resolve this; D-League reserves. We sent some of the deeper players on the bench to play with our D-League team during small chunks of last season; why not send somebody in with a specific agenda and bring them in when we’re either hurting and need them during the season or next season when the opportunity to hedge some of those potential problems with free agency next summer? When Joe Smith becomes an official decision, we’ll have a team that is 12 deep (assuming ‘Rio comes back), leaving at best one spot for a solid big man, one for another swing forward, and one for a swing guard (I have a theory that if every player capable of playing PG broke their hand, ‘Rio would be leading the squad up the court). I still need to take that night-time class on NBA economics and how contract wording could allow it to happen without it counting against any serious cap space, but rather than find ourselves lacking at these positions again come next summer, I think it would be prodigious improvement to know we don’t lack at these positions come next summer, and know that our depth would be more than capable of dealing with any injury situations that could come our way. So, in a nutshell and in crazy blogger so everybody gets it: SIGN SILER TO A MINIMUM AND SEND HIM TO D-LEAGUE! Ramma ramma “Take it to teh Hole” ramma rah….
BrittishAnger
August 19th, 2009
9:11 pm
….and if I can sneak it in…one, two three four, forty-FIFTH!!!!
doc
August 19th, 2009
9:16 pm
ariose, roy is better ball handler and on defense, going to the hole, making clutch shots, going for high numbers or going off for a whole game and he plays with more energy. other than that no better than jj. heh heh still say the two of them would have been like the knicks of old in clyde frazier and pearl monroe except hugher, stupid billy knight. sorry love jj but love roy even more.
The Truth
August 19th, 2009
9:25 pm
I still like the idea of trading Mo Evans for a 2010 expiring contract to free some cash since JJ extra 1M will be due next year assuming he resign. If trading Mo isn’t doable then we should rescind our 1M qualifying offer to Mario. I just don’t see the point of keeping two 6’-5” SG/SF players for spot duty when we are trying to cut cost. Also, it might be necessary to continue to tweak the roster more with better FAs. Cap will be needed in a bad economy and right now, it’s looking tight assuming we fill out the 2009 roster. We should know from this year that these quality FAs don’t come cheap. Sund should get an earlier jump on the quality FAs next year since he won’t be burden with trying to resign the core.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
9:52 pm
Somebody get that ladle away from Doc . Apparently he learned how to do more with the pot than just serve people.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
9:55 pm
Meant to say that he learned more at the soup kitchens than just how to serve people..
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
10:12 pm
okay, back to….zzzzzzzzzzzzzz….
doc
August 19th, 2009
10:31 pm
uh, i forgot to add roy is doing all that and is about 4 years younger ray.
i guess ariose will be sick of me too by the end of the night.
ILL-logical
August 19th, 2009
10:40 pm
True or False:
Will the current incumbant head coach be extended?
Is the current coaching staff competent?
The BASG is going to find some new partners with DEEP pockets?
Now those are some of the real questions begging for accurate answers.
DocHawk
August 19th, 2009
10:55 pm
I think Joe at least wants to see what our complete roster will be before making his determination. It’s definitely not the make or break item because they are not big names but he’d be foolish not to at least wait till we’re done to get a better picture of the roster for his near future.
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
10:59 pm
LOL, Doc, Ray is right. We gotta get that ladle away from you hehehe
Roy is a beast though, I cant front. JJ is a better shooter, and a better ballhandler, but Roy is more athletic and has that skill of drawing fouls. But JJ can post up and roy can’t that well. He’s a maller SG like Wade(the only other SG i’ve seen him post up). Im gonna have to go even on the clutch factor between them. Were overlooking JJ because we see him so often, but he’s really clutch. I could name all the games, but im sure you could think of them if you really wanted too lol.
Ray, JJ’s trancended PLAYA. He got his PIMP card activated way back in the 05-06 season lol.
Ariose
August 19th, 2009
11:03 pm
IF JJ doesnt sign the extension do we risk him becoming a UFA and losing him for nothing? Or if he declines do we trade him for Amare this season and re-sign Flip?
Dan
August 19th, 2009
11:11 pm
I’m hoping that Joe Johnson takes the extension. I would hate to see that guy ever play for another team. He is the reason things are so good now. He should be here for the rest of his career.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2009
11:37 pm
Doc,
Nah, just stirring the pot in the other direction. Not much else to do right now. Only thing that makes me sick is the fact that we could have had him in addition to JJ. Heh…old wounds still bleed, I guess.
Ariose,
Without getting into all the other details, the biggest difference might be leadership. Roy is poised to become a leader and mainstay with his first and only NBA team. JJ is on his third team, and facing perhaps a crossroads in his career. He was signed on with big money to be “the man” here. And he’s been “the best man” thus far.
But who does even Woody give the credit to for the postseason appearance 2 years ago, followed by postseason progression this past year?
Bibby. Oh yeah. Things may change. Joe has to change in some ways as well. Is he going to “be the man” on a growing squad, or just be another 20+ ppg scorer on a good squad? Just because you’re the leading scorer, doesn’t mean you’re “the man.” Ask Ben Gordon…
Ultimately, that will be the difference between Joe and Roy.
As far as him not signing the extension, I don’t see why not, unless he and his agent are ready to roll the dice on him being signed by a team that will contend for the championship. Well, the current contenders don’t have the money or the right fit for him, and he’s already had a good taste of being the teacher’s pet, if you’ll pardon the phrase. Why go elsewhere, unless you’re SURE you get to play with a fellow bonafide star player, and the two of you can lead a good squad deep into the playoffs?
Ariose
August 20th, 2009
12:23 am
Ray, Defenetly agree with that. There is no doubt that Roy has taken his leadership role in stride, while JJ has struggled with it at times. I think JJ will continue to grow into the role though, he has to. It comes with the territory. Each year, he gets more and more vocal. That has to continue to grow along with a maturing roster.
To me, Joe can’t be superman by himself. We need a Justice Leauge. Joe needs a supporing cast of superheroes on or above his level. I do beleive we can take that next step. The backcourt is perfect. If our frontline can take a big developmental next season, I see good things happening for us this upcoming post-season. Theres no way JJ would leave all of this goodness. 1)The Hawks Win(nowadays….lol) 2)We can offer Joe the most dough 3)Joe is from the south and his fam is from Arkansas. He loves the ATL and the fact that he’s so close to his family(they visit him often). It’s a nob brainer for him.
AND SUND DID HIS HOMEWORK!!! He saw what PHX did(Sund does this too though) and wised up. You cant play with JJ like that. He’ll leave you worse off than an abused wife leaves her husband in a bad Marrage. Pennyless and looking stupid. Way to play Rick!
Ariose
August 20th, 2009
12:26 am
Well Ray, seeing as how I transitioned into talking about team success. I guess the Joe Vs. Roy thing is trivial at the moment lol. The more we win, the better everyone involved looks and the better they’ll be rated.
Wink
August 20th, 2009
12:47 am
Big Ray
Good point regarding Joe & Ben Gordon! Joes has already played with a Big 3 in Phoenix, (Nash, Amare, Marion) at least a solid 3 plus himself. He has had his chance with the Hawks to be the Man, but he is a reluctant all star. He would welcome someone else to help carry the burden of scoring. Maybe Crawford is what he needs to relieve some of the pressure.
We have a guy that wants that top dog spot (The Man) Josh, but he does not have the skills. We need a Main Cog to go with JJ, usually a big man. As for Roy, CP3, Deron Williams, all are younger than Joe, two of them could have been Joe’s teammates, but they all have ascended to the tag “the MAN” on their teams. They all have an inside presence to go too (Chandler now Okafor, LaMarcus Aldridge, & Boozer)and they all are capable of taking a game over on a more consistent basis than Joe. If Joe wants to wait to sign that contract extension let him, not quite ready to hook my wagon to that horse for 3-4 more years.
Ken Strickland
August 20th, 2009
1:06 am
The discussion about JJ possibly resigning brings into focus the real reason we traded for JCrawford instead of resigning Flip. Crawford has proven he can be a 19-20PPG scorer and would be an adequate replacement for JJ if he refuses to resign. That’s not the case with Flip, no matter how much you Flip fanatics try to spin it. Also, Crawford has proven he can produce JJ type numbers without being a ballhog, if given JJ’s mins.
I also believe Teague will be more effective overall as a PG than Flip, who was a scorer, not a facilitator. Teague might not score as much as Flip, but he has the ability to produce more scoring opportunities for others. Let’s face it, we have a guard oriented jump shooting OFF, and we’ve just added 2 more jump shooting, penetrating guards to help make it work better. I also believe RMorris will be much better than JCollins, especially if he maintains his motivation and gets consistent mins.
Ken Strickland
August 20th, 2009
1:11 am
One more thing. Siler might not get many mins, or even make the active roster. However, he can have a major influence on the team by getting our frontline use to consistent physical play during practice.
Ed
August 20th, 2009
3:21 am
IMHO, JJ is much more in the Scotty Pippen role as opposed to the MJ role. This doesn’t mean he’s not a very good player as Pippen was voted one of the 50 best years back. It’s just that it’s not in JJ’s demeanor to be what everyone wants him to be, the take charge leader of this team. There is one on this team to play Batman to JJ’s Robin so he does the best he can.
With that being said, I think we should re-sign him. If JJ is unwilling to accept the new contract we should trade him now as the risk of losing him for nothing is too high. It’s not about the dollar amount either but more about JJ thinking he could land in a much better situation. One where he doesn’t have to shoulder the load of being the leader and can flourish on a team with real championship possibilites.
Big Ray
August 20th, 2009
6:27 am
Ken,
You make some good points, and I admire your cahones. Why? Because after saying what you did about JJ, especially in reference to Crawford, you gotta KNOW you’re about to catch some heat, lol!
Ed,
That analogy is all well and good. But if JJ is a Pippen, we gotta have a Jordan. Nobody wants to go to war with Robin and no Batman. Like Ariose said, we need a Justice League.
Sekou Smith
August 20th, 2009
7:07 am
Gonna answer the questions from above this morning. Sorry. I was on the run yesterday. Birthday in the family.
doc
August 20th, 2009
8:34 am
ariose i disagree with you on the ball handler bit. roy is closer to a point than jj is. i have many times seen him take it into traffic and dish or come out the other side without it being stripped, just dont see jj doing that. jj is much bigger which has its benefits and weaknesses, only roy uses his body more to get fouls so he may have better control or maybe jj just doesnt want to do those things. glad to have one of them on my side.
look i called jj wade jr when he got here, he didnt quite make it to some of those huge games even when no one was around that roy has put up but has performed well. also dont see how you can say other teams dont focus on roy as much as they do jj. who does roy have to protect him?
yeah ken watch out i made that same point about crawford providing some leverage if jj decides to look elsewhere and it wasnt received well
clint
August 20th, 2009
8:40 am
as much as I think Gerald Green makes sense (very young & a tall, lengthy sf backup), i don’t think sekou has indicated that the hawks have any interest in him. If im wrong, and i hope i am, please let me know. It looks to me that it is just us on here speculating that we would like to have him. Petro gets my vote for the last roster spot. he is long and can block the occasional shot
Clyde
August 20th, 2009
8:53 am
ANT BANKS Fire Woody!
GeeMack
August 20th, 2009
9:01 am
JJ should wait til the end of the season before he signs an extension. Put some pressure on management to make enough moves to get this club to Champioship level. If not at 14 million he can go play with a guy like LBJ and be in champioship contention for the remainder of his career.
kwooden1
August 20th, 2009
9:07 am
I’m a Joe fan so I definitely want him to be here. In terms of the money its seems reasonable from the HAWKS perspective, but if I was a player I would always bet on myself. If Joe has a great year he could definitely get more from the HAWKS or some other team. (18M/per depending on the market next summer) So waiting a few more weeks to figure out and negotiate is wise on Joe’s part.
I agree with Ariose that JJ needs a Justice League, but I don’t agree that one of the team’s issues being leadership. I think for the HAWKS in different situations more vocal leadership would be helpful. But how much of does being vocal really help, I’m sure there was a lot yelling at some point from CP3’s when Denver was giving his team a 60 point beating! (yell doesn’t make up for not playing defense or just being over matched one night) I think this team needs another year of physical and mental maturity. Adding Joe Smith and Crawford are great moves. On paper the HAWKS are clearing not as good as LA, Celtics, Orlando or Cleveland, but they’ve taken another step towards being more competitive.
In terms of JJ, I don’t believe for one second he’s a reluctant leader, I just think he puts to much pressure on himself. Bibby was great for this team last year because he took a lot of pressure off JJ, but taking big shots. Bibby’s experience was hugh, and I’m sure that JJ took note of it. JJ could probably do a better job of encouraging and directing Josh Smith during games, but for the most part I think people keep equating JJ’s lack of athletic abilty (compared to Lebron, Wade and Kobe) to his lack of leadership compared to the big three. That makes no sense!! What about San Antonio, Pop is the leader right or is he? Pop’s never won anything without Duncan, so is Duncan leader or is it Pop? JJ gets the respect of his players and coaches, he’s the best player on the team and leads in scoring and assists.
GO HAWKS!!
Dashizz357
August 20th, 2009
9:25 am
JJ leads by his play, he’s never going to be a vocal leader as Garnett, Kobe or Wade. JJ is more the Ray Allen type but with alittle more well rounded game. I thought Ben Wallace, even alittle old had the ring and the balls to get in Josh’s face when he started to sway away from the offense. Hopefully Josh’s maturity will allow it to over flow into his all around game!
And for all you Woody haters, for what ownership has put him thru & all the negetive media, I think he’s done a GREAT job with what he has to work with, name another coach who has taken the Hawks further than Woody in the past 20 years! Give the man his extension, keep the core players together & let’s go win some the game’s.
How we forget that last years Hawks playoff tickets were the hottest thing in town!
Let’s GO HAWKS…….
Beck
August 20th, 2009
9:25 am
Great update Sekou. Thanks. One more question for the list: what happened to Cenk Akyol? PLEASE ANSWER – I’ve asked the blog 3 or 4 times now. There was that bit article and then…..no update. Help me out!
terrell barron
August 20th, 2009
9:41 am
Ken, youre’re right. Sund signed Crawdaddy for a reason. Not only to help out the squad offensively, but it also gives him some leverage. Not sayin that he thinks Crawford is the player that JJ is, but it makes sense. Also, we only have him under contract for 2 yrs. JJ will want at least 4 or 5. That means Sund could go get us a superstar sg in 2010 or 11, if JJ declines the offer. With all that said, I think he’ll accept.
Daniel
August 20th, 2009
9:47 am
Great article Sekou-
Way to answer all our questions.
How does adding Petro or Collins affect Randolph. Obviously, he doesn’t have a spot then, but what about that stupid contract?
Joe Johnson is better than Brandon Roy. Better overall game. Better defensively!!!! (yes, I said it) Physically more imposing. I am not dissing Roy, very nice to excellent young player, he just isn’t Joe.
Sekou- In relation to extending Joe, the sooner that LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Bosh, get extensions the worse for the Hawks. Each time those guys get a contract the more Joe’s value is going up. I mean the Knicks have to throw money at somebody if Lebron reups with the Cavs.
I know they are aware of these issues, but honestly if they get Joe to sign for anything less than 18 mil per year, they are getting a good deal.
Daniel
August 20th, 2009
9:48 am
Good grief, may last post has so much bad grammar. I just have to apologize.
Daniel
August 20th, 2009
9:53 am
terrell- what superstar do you think that Sund can just “go get us”?
Ariose
August 20th, 2009
9:53 am
Doc, I might have to agree with you NOW. But 5 years ago I wouldn’t have(Back when Joe was a little smaller and played the role of PG whenever Nash took a break). The drawing fouls thing may indeed be more of a PG trait, cant argue with that, and Joe needs to find a way to get to that FT line more often. Still, I think were overlooking Joe because we see him so often. I was watching the LA game from this past march the other day, and JJ made a couple of moves in traffic that had the crowd oooing and ahhing lol. Form a Technical standpoint, I think JJ’s a better dribbler, but youre righ. Roy gets anywhere he wants to go on the court, no problem.
I’ll admit, these last two years, JJ’s been getting stripped a little more than in the past. I think thats a result of him taking in the identity of our Head Coach. Intiating the offense SLOWLY, and all of those AWFUL ISO-Joe plays where he runs the clock down and ends up passing it to Josh on the peremeter right before the buzzer sounds. When Joe first got here, he attacked a lot faster IMO. He made qick moves and was more decisive. Joe needs to get back to that. He’s a better FT shooter now than he was back then, but if you don’t get to the line, whats the point?
Like you said though, I’m just glad we have one of them on our side.
Hoops
August 20th, 2009
9:58 am
Great info Sekou! Keep up the good comunication!
JJ will re-sign. Be patient.
After Joe Smith signs, we will have 5.6M to fill out the roster. We’re in good shape! Great job Rick Sund!
vava74
August 20th, 2009
9:59 am
Jason Collins is a liability on the FT line but he is a defensive beast one-on-one (as an help defender is just OK).
Johan Petro is much smaller and also a liability on the FT line, although a better rebounder.
I would say that we should sign Collins, Siller and O. Hunter and send these last 2 plus Morris to the NBDL to see who is really doing all within their power to improve their games and prove that they belong in the big league.
With Zaza, Joe and Collins we have solid help in the bench to relieve Al and Josh and bang with the big boys Howard and Shaq.
vava74
August 20th, 2009
10:06 am
Actually, Jarron is a beast defensively, Jason, not so much.
I keep mixing up these two guys.
ILL-logical
August 20th, 2009
10:23 am
Sekou has given us some important tips lately that I don’t believe everyone checkout, at least not thoroughly.
First, when he did the article on Randolph Morris, he wasn’t just trying to rep homeboy, he was dropping a hint to the HC that here was a solution to not only the depth problems on the front line but an opportunity to compete physically with the newly beefed up conference foes.Let’s see if the HC gets the hint.
Second, his reporting on the Joe Smith saga carefully noted that the primary beneficiary of his presence would be Horford. The underlying message was that while many have clamored for the Hawks starting center to be moved to the power forward spot, the HC and GM are still pondering the move with an abundance of caution. A old school B-ball loving friend is still not sure the the guy has the agility, both offensively and defensively, to make the move.
Last, Our noble scribe has carefully avoided any discussion on the HC’s future. It is the elephant in the room; a humongous one. With all the talk about Joe’s extension talks, you would have thought that a little Hc stuff would have come up. After all, without the HC, there would not be All-star appearances for the last big money FA to sign with the home team.Maybe more will be forthcoming but in the meantime there is an unspoken presence in the air and it isn’t going away.
Sekou Smith
August 20th, 2009
10:34 am
first up, jerrywest and his “3 more questions.”
1. When “vet-min” was first established, the teams were suppose to pay the minimum rookie salary and the league paid all the raise for “Vet” which was most of $. Is that still the case? Does Joe count rookiey-minimum against the cap?
Good question. Yes, the league does pick up half his salary (or thereabouts). That’s what makes him such a steal (when he signs).
2. How does Jamal+Bibby backcourt work? JJ+Jamal is one of the best backcourt duo in the NBA.
On the defensive end Jamal+Bibby is one of the worst backcourt due ever.
Same way it works when JJ is out there or when Flip was out there with JJ and or Bibby (which didn’t happen very often last season). The Hawks won’t be strong defensively in the backcourt. That’s no secret.
3. We could use 3 backups – a big man, a big point guard and a big swingman (bigger than Mo). Could Sund pull another coup by trading Mo-square (Evans+Morris) for an upgrade in one of these 3 positions? Just like the Crawford trade. Teams could buy out Mo next year. This would also open up another roster spot.
Sund “could” do whatever he wants. But I’m much higher than Mo Evans than apparently most everyone else around here. All I remember is that the Hawks won something like 70 percent of the games in which Mo was in the starting lineup. He’s an ideal backup small forward for Marvin, a guy that can also swing over to shooting guard and provide security there.
Sekou Smith
August 20th, 2009
10:37 am
Beck asked about Cenk Akyol, he worked out during the mini-camp and is now headed back to Europe. He doesn’t look like he’s ready for the NBA just yet. Nice shooting stroke and a good basketball IQ, but needs to mature physically before being ready for the rigors of the NBA.
jerrywest
August 20th, 2009
10:37 am
Crawford is far superior to Flip. Actually he is JJ Lite. Pun intended and that’s where the problem lies. Crawford is really too lightweight to play next to Bibby. At least, Flip Bibby combo was a D- because Flip was strong enough to guard Shooting guards. Crawford/Bibby back-court playing with Josh/Al at 4/5 will make us smaller than some college teams. I think Woody will quickly realize that Bibby/Crawford back-court getting too many minutes will get him fired.
jerrywest
August 20th, 2009
10:52 am
Enter your comments here
Ken Strickland
August 20th, 2009
10:57 am
DOC/BIG RAY-We’ve been on these blogs long enough to be immune to such criticism. I just think trading for Crawford and the possible signing of JSmith are solid well thought out moves that, unfortunately, some Hawk fans haven’t grasped yet. With them on board, if we suffer key injuries to any of our key frontline players, or JJ, Woodson won’t have to tighten his rotation and overplay his remaining frontline players like he did last yr.
SOME OF US ARE ATLANTA HAWKS FANS, AND SOME ARE FANS OF CERTAIN ATLANTA HAWK PLAYERS.
Also, with Bibby out of the gm, JJ was an easy target for double and triple teams last yr. Flip was a penetrator and scorer more than an effective jumpshooter or facilitator. He dominated the ball and took some players out of the OFF. Teams didn’t have to double or triple team JJ if he didn’t have the ball or wasn’t a threat to score, which was often the case with Flip in the gm. With Crawford and Teague coming off the bench, JJ will have nonstop protection, and JJ can still control the ball. In fact, he’ll get better protection with Crawford and Teague than with Bibby, since, unlike Bibby, they can pentrate very effectively as well as shoot 3’s.
Dos Hawkquis
August 20th, 2009
11:06 am
KEN STRICK,
I like JJ and I applaud the Hawks for extending an offer, early. However, I would not be upset if JJ left. In a lot of high pressure games, JJ was the “Lion” from the Wizard of Oz…NO HEART! We could have won the Boston game this yr, but JJ could not hit a free throw?
During the playoffs, he averaged 16pts and he is supposed to be our go to guy. There were several times during this past season that he did not show up.
If he re-ups, I am okay, but if he leaves, I think that Crawford and Teague can fill in just as nicely. I am sure that we can put JJ’s 15mil to good use on some other FA’s.
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
The Truth
August 20th, 2009
11:11 am
jerrywest
You have just made a case for keeping 6′-5″ guys like Mario and Mo Evans around to play spot duty at PG/SG. If for no other reason then defense since the combo of Bibby+Crawford could be a defensive liability with the wrong match-up. However, I still maintain we only need one for this role, not two.
lexluther
August 20th, 2009
11:32 am
4 yrs, 62-64 million. I don’t know how much time JJ needs to decide on this one but it should be a no brainer.
Doug
August 20th, 2009
11:33 am
Ken: You are not going to convince certain posters that the Hawks can succeed minus Flip. And you will be told you don’t like him cause he’s from Sahw College…intellectual retort that is…and that Flip is the truth…ad naseum…statistics be damned…contratual status in the NBA be damned…Teague-Crawford is nt an upgrade. You are exactly correct though…excellent upgrades by Sund…not perfect and I too wish we were stronger defensively in the backcourt but we should be extremely dangerous offensively!!
Daniel
August 20th, 2009
11:38 am
Dos Hawkquios- Man, I think you are so wrong. Crawford and Teague to fill in nicely for Joe Johnson? Say what? What other FA are expecting the Hawks to bring in with that 15 mil? If we let Joe get to FA, then you will see how highly the rest of the league considers him.
Please stop with that crazy talk.
The Truth
August 20th, 2009
11:40 am
Sekou
Clear me up; why was it so necessary for Sund to offer Joe Smith only a 1-year deal (and now we know it was for vet-min)? Is the vet-min only a 1-year deal? If not, what would have been wrong with a 1-year deal with a team option for a second year? That would have given us the flexibility to maintain his services for another year. This 1-year deal looks more like a band-aid approach just to get us over the hump for this year only. I know JJ was a factor with his extension offer, but if he signs now then next year will not be an issue. If JJ signs now, seems like we will be free and clear for next year with the core intact.
gwite
August 20th, 2009
11:44 am
“62-64 million” ???
Has it been determined what has been offered to JJ in the extension negotiations? Or is the above range merely someone’s “thinking out loud”?
Daniel
August 20th, 2009
11:47 am
according to Sekou that is the figure the Hawks extended to Joe. I assume as a starting point.
O'Brien
August 20th, 2009
11:50 am
Ken,
You raised an interesting point. If Crawford was the starter, and received JJ’s minutes, what kind of numbers would he put up? Would his production be close to JJ?
That being said, I think JJ will sign his extension.
1) He likes Woody
2) He should be worried about getting injured/body breaking down
3) As Ariose said, he’s from Arkansas
4) Woody’s offense is designed around him
5) His teamates will be here for a while
Melvin
August 20th, 2009
11:59 am
It’s interesting reading thru the blog and seeing so many bloggers express emphasis on defense or individuals defensive abilities. I am of a different opinion, I believe DEFENSE is far OVER-RATED. To me, there is no defense for good offense. Good scorers are going to score the ball more than they are denied. Now, I’m not saying that all defensive schemes are useless but only suggesting that the elite players are going to score their averages more often than being held under their average regardless of whom the opposing defender is.
terrell barron
August 20th, 2009
12:02 pm
Hawks/Celtics from early in the season last year is on NBA TV right now. Great game.
jerrywest
August 20th, 2009
12:15 pm
Give Sund an extension within 24 hours after he resigns JJ. With a hefty raise.
Sekou Smith
August 20th, 2009
12:27 pm
It wasn’t “necessary,” Truth, to offer Joe Smith a one-year deal. That’s just the market for 35 year old 10th or 11th men these days in the NBA. Look around at most other veteran bigs like him, they sign one or two-year deals. It’s sort of like Flip’s deal last year. You raise a valid point that I think applies to the Flip case as well. If the guy works out well that first year, you’ll wish you’d signed him for two (and I know the Hawks wish they’d have done a two-year deal with Flip instead of just one). They could have offered Joe Smith a four-year deal if they wanted to. It’s just the way business is done when filling out a roster.
kmjice
August 20th, 2009
12:43 pm
OK………….. here are ten topics i wanted to address, because some people dont think before they write stuff on here… things are not as simple as they look people.. SO HERE WE GO!!!!
1. signing joe johnson
joe johnson deserves a big contract, he knows that if he is to have a good team though to win some championships, then he cant have it to big.. but 4 years 70 million will be perfect… especially if he starts/ continue to take over in the forth quarter like he did that boston game last year, ( 20 points in the forth quarter, yeah he was up there with kobe and dwayne wade that night.) and also he had so much pressure on him to be a super star that people always noticed when he messed up, but he saved the hawks mway more times then he messed up!! only person i would trade him for is dwayne wade, lebron james, and kobe bryant, other then that.. u have your super star..!!!!!!
2). please do not stunt jeff teague growth like acie law.. he deserves equal minutes as mike bibby, maybe even more!!! u dont want him to get too use being a bench player, because u never know if he has that super star mentallity like chris paul.. dont stunt his growth, play him.. a lot!!!
3). joe smith gets traded so many times obviously for a reason!!! duh…. im not sayin not to get him… but if we can get somebody like jason collins before we get joe smith.. then thats the move!!! him and garrett sellers… garrett sellers coul actually be on the roster right now instead of randolph morris.. trade morris and zaza for a true power forward that can back up josh smith, somebody like Jared Jeffries from the knicks. he would be a good back up for josh smith. but jus get somebody that is a true powe forward, because josh smith is actually a small forward, so u can suprise different deffenses by having a true power forward backing him up, since they would be so use to josh smith style of play
4). mo evens is a good enough player to back up that position SF.. the way the roster is set up, u can rest all five starters at the same time and still stay in the game and keep up wit other teams while the starters rest.. and he is a good defender, a high flyer, and a good three point shooter, his height is not a factor.. keep him
5). the different packages the hawks could use
a. the regular starting 5 that got them to the play offs two years in a row.
b. small line up that has mike/jamal,joe,josh, and horford.. for quicker teams thats smaller or even too slow to keep up with this, example the warriers ( all shooters )
c. big line up.. jeff teague, joe johnson, josh smith, al horford, joe smith… for teams like orlando who have a big line up with vince, rashad lewis, and dwight howard in at the same time. this way we can match up man to man with out any real problems
d. or great deffense ( for end of games ) mario west, joe johnson, marvin williams, mo evans, josh smith.. to stop anybody from scoring the last few minutes of games
6). marvin williams… some people keep sayin trade mario williams trade marvin williams trade marvin williams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. NO!!!!! that is not the anser.. if u not trading him for brandon roy or amare stademire, then there is no point in trading him at all.. he still has the potential to be a super star and a go to guy in crunch time… last year he showed a lot of promise while josh smith was injured and when the hawks really needed him…. and he hittin 3 pointers now!!!! so if you not already trading him for a established super star.. then there is no point in trading him at all.. he is young with a lot of promise!!! if we trade him.. its gon come back against us 100 fold
7). why people keep sayin they might trade josh smith, they wouldnt have kept him around this long and gave him that huge contract.. he is not gettin traded unless he requested!! but he wouldnt do that,, u gotta look at the players outside situations.. he loves atlanta. he is from atlanta. he is here to stay!!!
8). everybody cant be great on the bench, cuz then everybody will complain and u will mess up the chemistry because of egos!!!!! thats y they had to let go of flip murray… cant have too many score first me me me personalities!!!!!! u need the mario west and randolph murrays and the othello hunters. who know they role is not to score, but to play there role rather if it is lock down deffense ( mario west,) or a big body to take up space ( randolph morriss ) u need these type of players on your bench.. they are specialist and role players for a reason!!!!
9). mike woodson should be head coach.. i dont really agree with a lot of the stuff he been doin!! but u have to admit that the hawks have gotten better every year he has been here… and development for a young team is hard to do, especially as good as players we got!! all of our starters was first round pick super stars and still have that mentallity.. so behind the seens woody is doin a good job to be honest!! hawks jus keep gettin better and better.. with his help.now sometimes he put players in the game at the wrong times, but if he gets better at doing that then he will be a better coach!!
10). i want my own blog on ajc.com.. because i am the biggest hawks fan there is. i wanna play for them one day.. but i read up on the hawks almost every hour.. how can i get my own blog!!!!
kmjice@yahoo.com