True or False in Hawksville!

FIRE MIKE WOODSON

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou – Great blog. Thanks for clearing up a lot of counfusions.

3 more questions.

1.

When “vet-min” was first established, the teams were suppose to pay the minimum rookie salary and the league paid all the raise for “Vet” which was most of $. Is that still the case? Does Joe count rookiey-minimum against the cap?

2.
How does Jamal+Bibby backcourt work?
JJ+Jamal is one of the best backcourt duo in the NBA.
On the defensive end Jamal+Bibby is one of the worst backcourt due ever.

3.
We could use 3 backups – a big man, a big point guard and a big swingman (bigger than Mo). Could Sund pull another coup by trading Mo-square (Evans+Morris) for an upgrade in one of these 3 positions? Just like the Crawford trade. Teams could buy out Mo next year. This would also open up another roster spot.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let’s go Hawks!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

JJ has every reason to take a lower salary to stay with the Hawks. A small raise would give him significantly worse team. Check how Tim Dunkin signed a lower deal to make sure that his team can get better players around him. This won’t be JJ’s first large contract, nor his last contract. Why would he take risk of injury for a whole year? We saw Bibby/Zaza/Marvin happily sign recession deals. This is JJ’s team. Why would he not sign this deal happily?

• Link
• Report this comment

SIGN JOE SMITH, JERMAINE O’NEAL, AND GARRETT SILER AND CALL IT A SUMMER ON BIG MEN.FIND A WAY TO KEEP HUNTER AND MARIO WEST

• Link
• Report this comment

Add another big. And this season is make or break for woodson

• Link
• Report this comment

this team is starting to shape up. all this chemistry good pay big dividends early in the year. need to win a lot of games early before the others teams newcomers start to gel.

• Link
• Report this comment

I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS SEASON

• Link
• Report this comment

Since we already have MEvans, Teague, CCrawford, ZPachulia and RMorris under contract, adding JSmith would leave only one open slot on our 12 man roster. Considering how little interest Woodson has shown in developing or utilizing rookie projects like Siler, adding him would almost guarantee him little playing time.

I see us adding a vet Big as the 12 man, and I see us adding Siler to the practice squad, assuming we sign him. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MWest and/or TGardner added to the practice squad as well.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sign Siler/Petro and show Randolph the door. Trade Mo Evans for Damion Wilkins.
Jeezuz….Anybody else tired of the Brett Favre romance.

CDOG- Jermaine Oneal is under contract with Miami

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou,
Very nice article.
Petro and Collins would be nice additions. We all know our starting 5 will not play in all 82 games and we need some depth.

Is that too many centers to have?? ZaZa, Morris, Petro and Collins
Do we need another wing player like a Carney, Gerald Green or one of the Graham twins as well??

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou

Good job, we needed to hear some answers to lingering questions bloggers have posed about the status with this team. One of the Big you mentioned, Jason Collins, I really hope we can avoid him. Among other things, this guy is a terrible free-throw shooter. He could be liability in critical games. Even Morris shoots a better percentage. I know we are at the bottom of the barrel for Bigs, but it must be some better quality then him.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’d love to see Damien Wilkins here. Wolves have him under contract though.

• Link
• Report this comment

WE JUST NEED TO SIGN JERMAINE, TRADE FOR SHAQ, THEN IVERSON,

GET IT DONE ASG

JK

STOP ASKING FOR JERMAINE

• Link
• Report this comment

27th!

• Link
• Report this comment

sekou
Do you have any idea what the hawks training camp roster will be

• Link
• Report this comment

Do not re-sign Joe Johnson he is too soft and don’t have that killer instinct that the hawks are missing from a leadership perspective. The hawks should wait until after the season and see if they can land chris bosh I’m sure he wouldn’t mind coming back too the city where he played his college b-ball at.

• Link
• Report this comment

Joel Bringham of Hoopsworld is starting to really annoy me.

“an effort that’s likely to be awarded heftily next summer when he very well could become the highest-profile free agent on the market to actually consider leaving his current team.”

He keeps implying(or hoping) that JJ will go elsewhere. Im so sick of this guy….

• Link
• Report this comment

Roy is better. More clutch. Plays with more abandon(effectively). Having said all this, they are still close.

Still totally happy with Joe, but can’t see reason that he should make quite what Roy signed for. Same neighborhood though. Just a little less.

• Link
• Report this comment

….when Roy AVGS 25ppg then MAYBE he can come holla@Joe….

• Link
• Report this comment

Collins is trash. I would rather see RandyMo play than that guy… We need a back up sf with some size. Love the hustle and hard work from Mo but he is not big enough. Watching that Boston game on NBA Tv really pushed home the point that he cant guard the bigger guys. Gerald Green is available and would come cheap. Kid is only like 23. Give him a cheap two year deal and let him grow with our other youngsters. Siler, Hunter, and Green and call it a day.

• Link
• Report this comment

I went to college with Garret. He’s a genuine good person.

• Link
• Report this comment

….and if I can sneak it in…one, two three four, forty-FIFTH!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

I still like the idea of trading Mo Evans for a 2010 expiring contract to free some cash since JJ extra 1M will be due next year assuming he resign. If trading Mo isn’t doable then we should rescind our 1M qualifying offer to Mario. I just don’t see the point of keeping two 6’-5” SG/SF players for spot duty when we are trying to cut cost. Also, it might be necessary to continue to tweak the roster more with better FAs. Cap will be needed in a bad economy and right now, it’s looking tight assuming we fill out the 2009 roster. We should know from this year that these quality FAs don’t come cheap. Sund should get an earlier jump on the quality FAs next year since he won’t be burden with trying to resign the core.

• Link
• Report this comment

Meant to say that he learned more at the soup kitchens than just how to serve people..

• Link
• Report this comment

uh, i forgot to add roy is doing all that and is about 4 years younger ray.

i guess ariose will be sick of me too by the end of the night.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think Joe at least wants to see what our complete roster will be before making his determination. It’s definitely not the make or break item because they are not big names but he’d be foolish not to at least wait till we’re done to get a better picture of the roster for his near future.

• Link
• Report this comment

IF JJ doesnt sign the extension do we risk him becoming a UFA and losing him for nothing? Or if he declines do we trade him for Amare this season and re-sign Flip?

• Link
• Report this comment

Doc,

Nah, just stirring the pot in the other direction. Not much else to do right now. Only thing that makes me sick is the fact that we could have had him in addition to JJ. Heh…old wounds still bleed, I guess.

Ariose,

Without getting into all the other details, the biggest difference might be leadership. Roy is poised to become a leader and mainstay with his first and only NBA team. JJ is on his third team, and facing perhaps a crossroads in his career. He was signed on with big money to be “the man” here. And he’s been “the best man” thus far.

But who does even Woody give the credit to for the postseason appearance 2 years ago, followed by postseason progression this past year?

Bibby. Oh yeah. Things may change. Joe has to change in some ways as well. Is he going to “be the man” on a growing squad, or just be another 20+ ppg scorer on a good squad? Just because you’re the leading scorer, doesn’t mean you’re “the man.” Ask Ben Gordon…

Ultimately, that will be the difference between Joe and Roy.

As far as him not signing the extension, I don’t see why not, unless he and his agent are ready to roll the dice on him being signed by a team that will contend for the championship. Well, the current contenders don’t have the money or the right fit for him, and he’s already had a good taste of being the teacher’s pet, if you’ll pardon the phrase. Why go elsewhere, unless you’re SURE you get to play with a fellow bonafide star player, and the two of you can lead a good squad deep into the playoffs?

• Link
• Report this comment

Well Ray, seeing as how I transitioned into talking about team success. I guess the Joe Vs. Roy thing is trivial at the moment lol. The more we win, the better everyone involved looks and the better they’ll be rated.

• Link
• Report this comment

The discussion about JJ possibly resigning brings into focus the real reason we traded for JCrawford instead of resigning Flip. Crawford has proven he can be a 19-20PPG scorer and would be an adequate replacement for JJ if he refuses to resign. That’s not the case with Flip, no matter how much you Flip fanatics try to spin it. Also, Crawford has proven he can produce JJ type numbers without being a ballhog, if given JJ’s mins.

I also believe Teague will be more effective overall as a PG than Flip, who was a scorer, not a facilitator. Teague might not score as much as Flip, but he has the ability to produce more scoring opportunities for others. Let’s face it, we have a guard oriented jump shooting OFF, and we’ve just added 2 more jump shooting, penetrating guards to help make it work better. I also believe RMorris will be much better than JCollins, especially if he maintains his motivation and gets consistent mins.

• Link
• Report this comment

IMHO, JJ is much more in the Scotty Pippen role as opposed to the MJ role. This doesn’t mean he’s not a very good player as Pippen was voted one of the 50 best years back. It’s just that it’s not in JJ’s demeanor to be what everyone wants him to be, the take charge leader of this team. There is one on this team to play Batman to JJ’s Robin so he does the best he can.

With that being said, I think we should re-sign him. If JJ is unwilling to accept the new contract we should trade him now as the risk of losing him for nothing is too high. It’s not about the dollar amount either but more about JJ thinking he could land in a much better situation. One where he doesn’t have to shoulder the load of being the leader and can flourish on a team with real championship possibilites.

• Link
• Report this comment

as much as I think Gerald Green makes sense (very young & a tall, lengthy sf backup), i don’t think sekou has indicated that the hawks have any interest in him. If im wrong, and i hope i am, please let me know. It looks to me that it is just us on here speculating that we would like to have him. Petro gets my vote for the last roster spot. he is long and can block the occasional shot

• Link
• Report this comment

JJ should wait til the end of the season before he signs an extension. Put some pressure on management to make enough moves to get this club to Champioship level. If not at 14 million he can go play with a guy like LBJ and be in champioship contention for the remainder of his career.

• Link
• Report this comment

JJ leads by his play, he’s never going to be a vocal leader as Garnett, Kobe or Wade. JJ is more the Ray Allen type but with alittle more well rounded game. I thought Ben Wallace, even alittle old had the ring and the balls to get in Josh’s face when he started to sway away from the offense. Hopefully Josh’s maturity will allow it to over flow into his all around game!

And for all you Woody haters, for what ownership has put him thru & all the negetive media, I think he’s done a GREAT job with what he has to work with, name another coach who has taken the Hawks further than Woody in the past 20 years! Give the man his extension, keep the core players together & let’s go win some the game’s.
How we forget that last years Hawks playoff tickets were the hottest thing in town!
Let’s GO HAWKS…….

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken, youre’re right. Sund signed Crawdaddy for a reason. Not only to help out the squad offensively, but it also gives him some leverage. Not sayin that he thinks Crawford is the player that JJ is, but it makes sense. Also, we only have him under contract for 2 yrs. JJ will want at least 4 or 5. That means Sund could go get us a superstar sg in 2010 or 11, if JJ declines the offer. With all that said, I think he’ll accept.

• Link
• Report this comment

Good grief, may last post has so much bad grammar. I just have to apologize.

• Link
• Report this comment

Doc, I might have to agree with you NOW. But 5 years ago I wouldn’t have(Back when Joe was a little smaller and played the role of PG whenever Nash took a break). The drawing fouls thing may indeed be more of a PG trait, cant argue with that, and Joe needs to find a way to get to that FT line more often. Still, I think were overlooking Joe because we see him so often. I was watching the LA game from this past march the other day, and JJ made a couple of moves in traffic that had the crowd oooing and ahhing lol. Form a Technical standpoint, I think JJ’s a better dribbler, but youre righ. Roy gets anywhere he wants to go on the court, no problem.

I’ll admit, these last two years, JJ’s been getting stripped a little more than in the past. I think thats a result of him taking in the identity of our Head Coach. Intiating the offense SLOWLY, and all of those AWFUL ISO-Joe plays where he runs the clock down and ends up passing it to Josh on the peremeter right before the buzzer sounds. When Joe first got here, he attacked a lot faster IMO. He made qick moves and was more decisive. Joe needs to get back to that. He’s a better FT shooter now than he was back then, but if you don’t get to the line, whats the point?

Like you said though, I’m just glad we have one of them on our side.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jason Collins is a liability on the FT line but he is a defensive beast one-on-one (as an help defender is just OK).

Johan Petro is much smaller and also a liability on the FT line, although a better rebounder.

I would say that we should sign Collins, Siller and O. Hunter and send these last 2 plus Morris to the NBDL to see who is really doing all within their power to improve their games and prove that they belong in the big league.

With Zaza, Joe and Collins we have solid help in the bench to relieve Al and Josh and bang with the big boys Howard and Shaq.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou has given us some important tips lately that I don’t believe everyone checkout, at least not thoroughly.
First, when he did the article on Randolph Morris, he wasn’t just trying to rep homeboy, he was dropping a hint to the HC that here was a solution to not only the depth problems on the front line but an opportunity to compete physically with the newly beefed up conference foes.Let’s see if the HC gets the hint.
Second, his reporting on the Joe Smith saga carefully noted that the primary beneficiary of his presence would be Horford. The underlying message was that while many have clamored for the Hawks starting center to be moved to the power forward spot, the HC and GM are still pondering the move with an abundance of caution. A old school B-ball loving friend is still not sure the the guy has the agility, both offensively and defensively, to make the move.
Last, Our noble scribe has carefully avoided any discussion on the HC’s future. It is the elephant in the room; a humongous one. With all the talk about Joe’s extension talks, you would have thought that a little Hc stuff would have come up. After all, without the HC, there would not be All-star appearances for the last big money FA to sign with the home team.Maybe more will be forthcoming but in the meantime there is an unspoken presence in the air and it isn’t going away.

• Link
• Report this comment

Enter your comments here

• Link
• Report this comment

KEN STRICK,

I like JJ and I applaud the Hawks for extending an offer, early. However, I would not be upset if JJ left. In a lot of high pressure games, JJ was the “Lion” from the Wizard of Oz…NO HEART! We could have won the Boston game this yr, but JJ could not hit a free throw?

During the playoffs, he averaged 16pts and he is supposed to be our go to guy. There were several times during this past season that he did not show up.

If he re-ups, I am okay, but if he leaves, I think that Crawford and Teague can fill in just as nicely. I am sure that we can put JJ’s 15mil to good use on some other FA’s.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”

• Link
• Report this comment

4 yrs, 62-64 million. I don’t know how much time JJ needs to decide on this one but it should be a no brainer.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dos Hawkquios- Man, I think you are so wrong. Crawford and Teague to fill in nicely for Joe Johnson? Say what? What other FA are expecting the Hawks to bring in with that 15 mil? If we let Joe get to FA, then you will see how highly the rest of the league considers him.
Please stop with that crazy talk.

• Link
• Report this comment

“62-64 million” ???

Has it been determined what has been offered to JJ in the extension negotiations? Or is the above range merely someone’s “thinking out loud”?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken,

You raised an interesting point. If Crawford was the starter, and received JJ’s minutes, what kind of numbers would he put up? Would his production be close to JJ?

That being said, I think JJ will sign his extension.
1) He likes Woody
2) He should be worried about getting injured/body breaking down
3) As Ariose said, he’s from Arkansas
4) Woody’s offense is designed around him
5) His teamates will be here for a while

• Link
• Report this comment

Hawks/Celtics from early in the season last year is on NBA TV right now. Great game.

• Link
• Report this comment

As Hawks fans I think we must extend our Woody. We shouldnt be playing with our Woody. We need our Woody if we are going to reach our climax in the playoffs.

• Link
• Report this comment

kmjice- you actually made a few decent points in that crazy long rambling post. I would highly reccomend you proof read if you want your own blog.
The idea of trading Mo Evans and ZaZa for Jared Jeffries is a horrible idea and not realistic. Also, if you think that keeping Randolph Morris on the bench brings ANYTHING to the team you have not been watching. I get what you mean with Mario, every team can use a hustle/defending guy at the back of the bench, but lord have mercy Randolph Morris!?!?!! gimme a break.
Slow down man…. you will wear yourself out.

• Link
• Report this comment

This year will be a very telling year for our Woody.

Will he utilize his deep bench? Will he develop an offense, not just “iso Joe” and “throw it up Bibby”? Will he not stunt a rookie’s development? We he effectively rotate the players? Will he let his greyhounds run? Will he design an offense that allows Josh (a big man) to NOT be standing in the corner at the end of a shot clock? Will he design any offense? Will he actually draw up a play during crucial timeouts? Will he not look puzzled on the sideline? Will he have a defense that has other looks other than the “switching”?

The question at the end of the year should not be “has our record improved every year?” The question should be “can we get someone else to more effectly lead the Hawks?”

• Link
• Report this comment

I meant replace Artest with Rudy Gay….

• Link
• Report this comment

DOS HAWKQUIS-if that’s your criteria for your willingness to let JJ go, then I guess you’d be willing to allow LeBron James to walk, since that’s been the knock on him as well? It was also the knock on Michael Jordan before Scottie Pippen arrived? It was the knock on Dirk Nowitzki after his NBA finals meltdown, even though he won the league MVP that yr. People expect JJ to match the exploits of players like Kobe, DWade and LeBron. JJ lacks the quickness, apeed and athleticism of the aforementioned players, but he takes excellent advantage of what he does have. He’s an excellent ballhandler, passer, defender and shooter, with range, and has an excellent basketball IQ.

JJ is strong, physical, can post up and has an excellent gm within the paint. If Woodson had a clue, he’d post him up more and take advantage of him being double teamed in the post, instead of having him trying to beat double/triple teams outside the key. With JJ in the paint, Bibby, Marvin, Teague and Crawford could have the equivalent of open shooting practice during gms. JJ’s problem in critical situations is teams will double/triple team him no matter what because they just don’t respect any of the players the Hawks have teamed him with. It’s obvious Flip, Bibby, Acie and Evans haven’t scared teams enough to force them to back off JJ. LeBron hsd the same problem until last yr when the Cav’s took the pressure off by bringing in Mo Williams.

This whole debate over whether Flip or Crawford is the better player is mute. The issue should be which player is the better fit for taking the pressure off JJ. Crawford appears to be the better fit because he’s a better open jumpshooter than Flip and doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective.

I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but it should be plainly obvious the Hawks braintrust seems to think so.

• Link
• Report this comment

marvin williams is going to be the hawks scottie pippen and joe johnson is going the michael jordan!!! watch and see!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

they are better then zaza.. zaza sucks, he is too slow to keep up wit the rest of the hawks.. and he is not big enough to guard big men the right way… what good is he… he gets lucky rebounds.. thats it… so yes since joe smith is more athletic, he is more viluable on the hawks, a athletic team.. and jason collier puts up better numbers… so yeah.. they are better then zaza pachulia!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

truth mario doesnt look 6 ft 5 to me when he is next to kobe or d wade. i think he is a bit shorter than that.

ariose i guess that was my point as well. i wouldnt have said it three years ago either just jj has morphed more into a 2/3 than anything close to a 1/2. d wade is more the latter as is roy. he is still special just not kobe special as he has still not shown the drive or ability to consistently game after game take the team on his shoulder, maybe a quarter or two just not for games. he is also not an efficient scorer as he doesnt get to the line enough to make his time with the ball that effective. marvin is better at that than he is. say great team player, cool, superstar, not yet. still want him just not for the bank.

• Link
• Report this comment

Tim, where did you hear this rumor? I wouldn’t do it. JJ brings more to the table (defense) that Rip Hamilton. Plus, I’d rather Joe take the last shot at the end of regulation over Rip any day. That said, I guess you’d have to consider it if JJ isn’t going to resign. You have to get something.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think you’re talking about Jason COLLINS. Jason Collier, unfortunately, died a few years back.

• Link
• Report this comment

Via Cell phone from Berlin…
Usain Bolt just became the first human being to go under the magic 19:2 mark in the 200 meters
19:19… Out 2nd gold, 2nd WR in 5 days

• Link
• Report this comment

JSS, I understand that Bolt, Sammy Sosa, Floyd Landis and Roger Clemens are headed to a nearby restaurant to celebrate.

• Link
• Report this comment

Anakin Joe

You’re right, that’s only natural that teams will need to make adjustment when they add players. I’m talking about the “bravado” like behavior of the folks who post here not the team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ariose- Korolev will surely be in camp.

• Link
• Report this comment

On the signing of Flip last year and Joe Smith this year, it’s not that the Hawks wouldn’t sign them to multi-year deals for the minimum. The problem is that those guys have no incentive to sign that deal. Guys that good can always get the minimum. It’s a lot smarter for them to wait and hope that they do better than the minimum next year — especially when the economy is so bad this year.

By the way, why don’t the Celtics sign Flip? He would be a perfect fit there, and they need both a back-up PG and some scoring off the bench. Basically, he is what they were trying to get out of Marbury last year (but not getting). You’d think he’d be worth at least the bi-annual exception to them.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ariose- I think he is high

• Link
• Report this comment

Doug, I think i’ve said this before. Flip HAS gotten offers this summer. He just doesnt like them. He wants to sign a two year contract at the least; But I guess with 2010 right around the corner, teams arent willing to put that on the table for the nomadic combo guard.

No doubt in my mind that IF the Hawks WERE offering him a deal, he’d come back here rather than going someplace else. We’re a lot closer to a title and a more solid lock for the playoffs than the likes of Miami and Philly.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel

Your sarcasm is amusing. Nice score. How many points do you have now? I’ll let you win if it means that much to you and makes you feel better.

• Link
• Report this comment

I do feel better. Thanks for posting such an obvious target for sarcasm and ridicule.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jones, The C’s just Drafted a Flip Murray Clone. His name is Lester Hudson:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lester-Hudson-5065/

• Link
• Report this comment

What is Mark Bradley talking about on his blog? He says that adding Joe Smith will have little effect on his blog. Clearly, Mark does not watch Hawks games.

• Link
• Report this comment

Yahoo, This is right around the time where you should Grab your package(a frim tight grip, make it look convincing), Look Yahoo staght in the eye and say, “Yeeeaaa I said, What? 0_o” The crazy eye is important, make sure you sell it lol.

Of course this is the Net but you get the Idea hehehe…

• Link
• Report this comment

Since this blog was a true / false about the Hawks, let me posit this:

Mike Woodson is a good enough coach to take this team to the Championship.

True, or False?

No rejoinders, just TRUE or FALSE.

I’ll start.

False.

Ken S., you don’t have to respond, as I already know.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee- True(please don’t throw anything at me)

• Link
• Report this comment

Yeah, I’m seeing $62-64mil a very realistic offer to Joe. I don’t think it’s much of a coincidence of the offer (the timing and the pay range) coming so soon after the Roy signing in Portland. They have been so compared to each other since Roy came into the league.

That’s not a low ball offer from the ASG and they probably won’t/cant go any higher. So far, Sund seems to have a knack of keeping these negotiations civil, but if Joe/agent plays hard ball, he may well find himself in a situation like Lamar Odom recently.

And if he does play hard ball, he better have a dam helluva season. If not, who knows what potential deals(trades) Sund could have up his sleeve.

• Link
• Report this comment

NO meaning FALSE

• Link
• Report this comment

That was a heat check!

• Link
• Report this comment

That was a heat check!!

• Link
• Report this comment

FORGET FLIP AND SILER…SIGN USAIN BOLT!! FASTBREAKS WOULD BE A WRAP!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow!! Plaxico shot himself in the leg and got two years?? can you say smf…stupid mutha.

why would you want to go to a club where you have to be strapped? what if he had admitted off the rip that he had the gun for protection or he forgot he had it? throw yourself on the mercy of the courts, early and often

• Link
• Report this comment

only one track star to speak of in the last thirty years …. edwin moses. did it right, had a long HUGE career, still seems to be the same unassuming guy. elegant and grace in life and over the jumps. connected to the big a.

• Link
• Report this comment

SOME OF US ARE ATLANTA HAWKS FANS, AND SOME ARE FANS OF CERTAIN ATLANTA HAWK PLAYERS.
Are you like the republican legislator who wanted all the Dem’s investigated because she claimed they weren’t patriotic. Mercy.

JJ is better than Crawford because he plays much better defense.
JJ is better than Crawford because he is a better passer.
JJ is better than Crawford because he is a better finisher.
JJ is better than Crawford because he shoots better.
JJ is better than Crawford because he passes better.

I can’t see any way Crawford will be that effective unless he is playing Bibby minutes with JJ on the court. They make a very dangerous duo. (wasen’t that the word with Bibby the last couple of years?).
Neither can play defense. The pg’s of the league lick their lips thinking of the Hawks.
Neither can finish.
Bibby shoots better.
Bibby is a better passer.
Crawford does one thing better than Bibby, he can jive and juke and get off his own shot.

The idea he can replace JJ is wild unless we trade Bibby for a good defensive PG.
Another idea of having a star to complement JJ is seems valid. If we were to lose JJ we would also have to lose Crawford to go for a elite player like a Roy who can dribble and pass out of a double team.

It seems like every day the hype over Crawford gets bigger. Seems like a no defense good shooter are a dime a dozen. Rem Big Dog?

15.5 mil for JJ is overpaying. I would estimate his worth closer 12.5.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel, lol

Yahoo, well have at it! Nothing else is going on in theses dog days of the offseason hehehe…

Doc, Noe that I think about it, that’s ver reasonable in these economic times.I dont think KG, Ray, and Paul will re-sign for their current sticker prices(24mill,17mill, and 18mill respectively).

….I feel bad for plaxico…sort of lol. But if ou look at it from a legal standpoint “A gun was discharged in a puclic nightclub with tons of people around who could have been injured” then I guess he got what was coming to him. Even if it WAS registerd he would’ve gotten a year for that alone….it’s still pretty sad though. He’s 33 so by the time he gets out, his career as a reciver will probably be over…

• Link
• Report this comment

WOW, I didn’t know that Jason Williams signed with the Orlando Magic….dang…

• Link
• Report this comment

Jason Collier? Work on your spelling people. Jason Collier passed away.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bring back flip i pay for my tickets and i damand flip period.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Why no blog on flip sekou we need to vote.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

ariose, by the time a guy like plaxico gets out of a joint like he is going tp he will be retrained to do other forms of “work”. by most accounts, not a great citizen in or out of the clubhouse.

• Link
• Report this comment

rainman,

Nice post. I would love to see Woody experment with Josh and Al in different positions. ZaZa, Josh and Al all could improve on that 18′ jumper underneth the head of the key that our offense displays so often. All three lack a great handle, the front court needs to get the ball to them with 10′ to the hoop for strong short drives.

• Link
• Report this comment

Collins or Petro? I think I would take Petro, but isn’t there another big wide body out there?

• Link
• Report this comment

Do not be mistaken, JJ loves the iso. Woody loves JJ. More of the same on thing coming our way. And to think Crawford will solve our problems. Nothing against Crawford, JJ will have is way, he is our man.

• Link
• Report this comment

Truth, it’s pretty obvious that the holdup is with Joe Smith. Evidently, he is in no rush to sign a minimum contract, still hoping some team will offer more. Maybe Atlanta and Cleveland have each told him that the offers are waiting for him, at his pleasure. When he sees the doors closing, he will sign.

• Link
• Report this comment

WHAT-Flip has never had to beat double teams because he’s not a very consistent outside jumpshooter and he’s never shown himself to be as prolific at scoring as JJ or Crawford. We all read comments from JJ, Woodson and several others concerning their desire to have Bibby, Marvin and Zaza resigned. Yet, you haven’t read a single comment from Woodson or a single Hawks player concerning their desire to have Flip resigned. Except for a few dillusional fans, it appears nobody associated with the Hawks organization whats Flip resigned, and there has got to be a reason.

For those of you who are so enamored with Flip, let me suggest you wait and see who signs him and then watch him play for that team, because he ain’t coming back here. I’m truely surprised that some of you have been unable to grasp that fact at this point.

• Link
• Report this comment

I stumbled into something interesting.

Teague is remarkably similar to Harris in measurments. Even twins are not so similar.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=30&pos=1&sort=9

You’ll find Devin Harris followed by Jeff Teague in the 20th and 21st line.

Although Harris’s big head is 1.5 inches further from the ground than Teague’s, their measurments are remarkably close. I don’t know any other combo that is as close as these two.

Exactly same wingspan: 6′7.5″

Exactly same Reach: 8′2.5″

Exactly same No Step Vertical: 30.5″

Exactly same No Step Vertical Reach: 10′9″

Almost same in:

max Vert: Harris 37 Teague 36.5″

max Vert reach: Harris 11′3.5″, Teague 11′3″

Agility: Harris 11.03 Teague 11.05

Sprint: Harris 3.19 Teague 3.18

Weight: Teague is +5 lb.

The only significant difference is that Teague is much stronger than Harris was. Teague bench pressed 13 times, but Harris could do it only 5 times. Actually Teagues seems much stronger than many big and strong guards (sort by bench). Acie Law only had 8 and Rose had 10. Wade 9 and big Stuckey 14.

LOL – Amare,JJ,Marvin,Smoove bench pressed 12 times.

With that kind of strength Teague might be able to guard shooting guards and play effective defense next to Crawford who is a bad defender on shooting guards but an adequate defender on point guards. Since Crawford+Bibby combo would be one of the worst defensive combo ever, Teague’s strength might be the key that will help him stay out of Woody’s dog house next year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Unless Woody is fired……………. it matters not! And I wish there was one writer that had the guts to say it. But I guess that means no hanging out with the guys and free food before the games. This was never happen in a real sports town. They would have already ran Woody out of town!

• Link
• Report this comment

ken i have always respect your opinion, but in what way bringing flip back your best player of the bench from this past season hurt the team,and plus he is not asking for a lot of money maybe 2mill at the most we need quality depth wouldn’t you think so?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Yahoo,

I know Niremetal . He is NOT Doug, Daniel, Mystikal, or vava74. Hate to disappoint you on that one.

As for your “other side”, everybody has one of those. You DO realize you’re on a blog, do you not? Not that I have a problem with you myself, but if you start some ruckus you will find out two things: 1)This is virtual land, so you really can’t hurt anybody, and 2)Coming in here thinking you have an ugly side to show is like walking into a bar full of people, none of whom you know, and mean muggin’ all of them…while thinking nobody in the room can kick your ass. Good luck with that…

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee…FALSE!

IMHO, either sign JJ or trade him. If he won’t sign now there’s a very good chance he won’t sign later. We cannot afford to lose JJ with no compensation. The money will be close enough between the two sides that a deal can be worked out if JJ really wants to remain a Hawk.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken Strickland @ August 20th, 2009, 1:10 pm: Right on the MONEY!

DosHawkis:

I believe that you preference of “not watching basketball too often” is really showing here:

You obviously did not follow the past season closely:

JJ injured his ankle midway the season and did not fully healed it (Sekou has REPEATEDLY reminded people of this fact around here).

Consequently, his FG% and his PPG averages dropped BUT he compensated that by dishing out to his mates: THAT IS THE EVIDENCE of a smart, unselfish player:

In January: G16 GS16 MIN40.3 FG%.372 3PT%.260 FT%.772 OFR0.5 DR3.3 TR3.8 ASS7.2 STL1.3 BLK0.1 PPG17.9

Look at the minutes he logged with his bad ankle: 40.3 pg!!!

He later recovered on FG% and 3PT% but he was still playing hurt.

Check the stats and you will also see that his PPG average dropped after the injury when he let his team get more shots and was trying to protect his ankle by driving less to the basket: HE IS UNSELFISH and SMART. It is not lack of heart!!!!

During the playoffs, he was STILL injured and then twisted his ankle AGAIN.

Also: we were not playing with Marvin in the line up (in case you missed that one too, here is the reminder) and AL got hurt as well.

THE WEIGHT WAS ALL ON JJ’s shoulders, whilst PLAYING INJURED and against double and TRIPLE TEAMS!!!!! AND BAD REFS!!!!

For goodness sakes man, give the man a break!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken: Are you sure you are not talking to yourself as you respond to vava??? Or maybe I am really you or niremetal? Amazing what posters with an argument absent facts will conjure up when desperate!

• Link
• Report this comment

Doug- don’t worry about it Yahoo thought that I was you, niremental and vava. I believe.

I am such the conterversial blogger. I should change my name to Clyde or Truth Serum.

• Link
• Report this comment

good grief, I can’t spell.

• Link
• Report this comment

1). my bad jason collins… not collier ( r.i.p).

2). if joe smith was as good as people think.. he wouldnt have got trade ten times.. we need somebody that has been consistent on the same team… and on a winning team..

3). tell me how zaza is good!! i know what im talkin about.. every time he get in.. either the hawks start losing or teams really start attacking the basket.. what does that tell u!!! watch some hawks games before u say i lose my basketball creditbility!! i know what im talkin bout!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

TRUTH-SERUM,

wtf??!! are you okay? this whole, entire blog is a series of people views and opinions, with some facts, occassionally. why are you railing on KEN and SEKOU because they don’t espouse your views?

some of y’all need to take your stratera before bloggin’

• Link
• Report this comment

The Turk was vital for the Magic’s success and I believe that we will see that this coming year.

Hence, I would have him on the 4th or 5th spot easily.

Gay is looking good, but I believe that he brings better numbers than actual success to his team. I prefer Granger.

Quality is not measured only in stats.

I think Artest brings negative intangibles to his teams (could change under Phil Jackson and Kobe’s leadership) and to put him on the top 5 is a bit of a streach for me until he proves it by behaving a full year and helping the Lakers being successful (anything less than a trip to the finals will be a disaster).

Within 2 years, Marvin could be there, at least on the honourable mentions.

• Link
• Report this comment

ant banks- that is hilarious. appreciate the words doc, but I just can’t stand it myself. I am a product of spell check and it drives me crazy. Or maybe, I have already been driven there.
kmjice- doc, ripped you. Listen, I don’t think you are totally off base on all your stuff. So, don’t be discouraged. But, Za is an excellent guy of the bench for us. He does have weaknesses (that is why he is a bench player), but his game is a lot intangibles.
Joe Smith may have more physical tools, but ultimately look at the contracts both have received (reportedly) and it will tell you who the Hawks find more valuable.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel, I’ve said this before, but I actually see Smith becoming an all star this year. I think his time in the playoffs (where he was the alpha dog), and US camp experience will all be positive energy for his game. Truth is, other than Wade and Lebron, he may be the most exciting player in the Eastern Conference. If he can improve his jump shooting percentage at least 10%, then it will be no way they can keep him out.

• Link
• Report this comment

GEEMACK-that’s an excellent question. Here’s my take.

1-We need to upgrade the PG position. Bibby does an excellent job of shooting 3’s, especially in the clutch, but realistically, not much else. We need a PG that can shoot effectively, penetrate, break down DEF’s and create scoring opportunities for others, as well as run an uptempo OFF. He also needs to be capable of pressuring the ball and hold his own defensively. Hopefully, JTeague is that PG.

2-We need a versatile do everything type player like JChildress coming off the bench, preferrable JChildress.

3-We need another Big, besides Zaza and Joe Smith, assuming he signs, that’s more defensive minded.

4-We need to incorporate an uptempo OFF, which is more suited to the type of talent we have. We also need to design plays within our halfcourt OFF that takes full advantage of our athleticism, speed, quickness and versatility.

5-We need to provide more rest for our starters by utilizing more of our bench, utilize more in gm strategy and commit more time and effort to player development.

6-To accomplish all of the above, we’ll definitely have to hire a new HC.

DANIEL-Good point. Did anyone see us making the playoffs and taking the Celtics to 7gms? Last yr, we suffered 3 injuries that caused each our frontline starters to miss significant playing time, and that didn’t include JJ playing injured. It would only take timely injuries to Lebron, DHoward and PPierce to clear the way for us to make it to the finals.

• Link
• Report this comment

“What can the Hawks do to help JJ get a championship…?” Not sure that’s the construct I’d use, but understand the question you’re posing. Isn’t it at least marginally possible that dealing JJ (after signing him) is one of the options that the Hawks will explore in an effort to get a championship FOR Atlanta (rather than JJ) over the next four years?

If the Hawks (and JJ) opt for his continued presence in the ATL, I suspect that we won’t see the sort of organic growth in another single player – as opposed to organic growth of the overall team – to render that player a significant enough ‘addition’ to JJ to give us a championship. Smoove will continue to be exciting, and may come to be viewed by some as an all-star, but I see him as a strong future candidate for trade to get the ying to JJ’s yang into Hawks’ blue at an agreeable cost. Hope Smoove’s progress this season causes me to have to eat my words.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken,

I think we all should be patient with Woody: he has a lot of faults by he has tremendous qualities and I sincerelly believe that he is evolving as an HC:

1. His focus on defense is good, although having Bibby on the floor is a constant liability, he managed to set up a defensive coordination and rotations which overcome that problem against teams at our level and below.

This speaks highly on him and on his hability to have unity with teammates overcoming each others’ shortcomings.

2. He is very vocal and critic, but differently from his mentors Bobby Knight and Larry Brown, he speaks frankly with and about players without calling their names in the press and on their backs:

THIS IS A MAJOR asset for a coach since he collects his players respect, including J-Smoove’s.

3. He has improved his own skills, as the Hawks improved as well.

4. Much has been said about other successfull coaches, but if you look, for instance, at what Mike Brown did with the Cavs last year, you have to conclude that he is highly overrated.

Another example: look at Avery’s meltdown after the loss with Miami. His Mavs completely lost it and his players lost confidence in him as well.

Look as well as Sam Mitchel or Skiles burn their players in the press!!

You can only incorporate discipline with respect and these guys loose it after a little while.

5. During the crucial game 4 in Miami, Woody was superb in managing the players’ nerves and stopping them from – justifiably I must say – complaining about the referees and kept them calm and just playing ball.

I think the players listen to him as they would listen to an older brother and that is a very good reason for me to thing that we have a chance to make a splash!

• Link
• Report this comment

doc:

Got any inside scoop on J-CRIT’s ankle injury?

• Link
• Report this comment

folks there was a very commending interview yesterday on 680, heard most of it and it was from none other than gearon jr., himself. look it up and hope it is still on their web site. he was pretty candid, likes woody but not ready to commit to him until after the season. one of the best assets they mentioned of woody is there is no finger pointing or complaining. yes we have also mentioned that virtue as well and figured that is probably what gave him staying power. these guys have invested their own money and insist there is none borrowed to make it go as other franchises have gone the other way. melvin is right these guys so far are well funded. my guess is they know woody was strapped in the beginning because of little talent and stayed with him when others might have jettisoned him. with that they also know he owes them something as well for keeping hi when others might not have, kind of a symbiotic relationship.

my guess is if woody continues to grow as a coach with the parts he has now he keeps his job and they reward him at the end of the season with money and a long term deal say 4 years, sorry ken. if he cant show ability to become one of the better coaches in the league there will be calls made elsewhere to find someone who can and ken wins in the end. heh heh

daniel, yes you are already gone. there is a recovery program called “sticking it out here for a few years” though. just dont tell me i have to use caps and punctuate exactly right. keep your red pen to yourself. kind of done with it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel

You was just on me the other day about this year as a championship….lol. In all honesty who do you see on the current roster thats a bonifide all-star in the making. Josh maybe an all star once in the next five years. Marvin…no. Al maybe once or twice in his career Jeff it remains to be seen. I do agree that Mr. Sund has done a good job at adding player that can help and be moved with short inexpensive contracts.

Ken Strickland,

I agree with you that we need to make adjustment on offense, however I don’t think replacing Woody is the key. If you look at the teams in the east the Hawks finished 4th behind 3 teams that won 55 games or more. The hawks improved in every major defensive category last year, and Woody didn’t have half the talent of Orl, Bost, or Wash. Give Woody credit he has done a good job with a fueding ownership group, a GM that made horrible drafts 3 years in a row & a team full young player & an unproven leader in JJ.

newkid

I like the idea of a smoove trade if he does not show significant growth this season. Also I like the idea because it would move Al to his natural postion PF. I think he is a much better option at PF than Josh.

Mystikal

Instead of us waiting for the misfortunes of other teams. I would much rather us put our championship destiny in our own hands (Lakers, Spur, Cavs, Bos, & Orl. These teams made moves so that even in the event of injury they could still be somewhat competative.

Would you guys be willing to give up a guy like Marvin for someone like Chris Kaman? What ya’ll think?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ramon, you wrote, So he shouldn’t be fired, and actually if this year goes well should be offered a 3-4 year extension, IF he’s willing to admit his faults.

So if “this year goes well”, what faults must Woody confess? And to whom should he confess these faults before receiving forgiveness of his sins (and subsequently a contract extension)?

Sund & the ASG have essentially asked Woody to jump through one more hope, the ‘09-10 season. And they have presumably provided him with his best roster (assuming that Joe Smith puts pen to paper). My hope is that next summer, someone will get a 3-4 year contract to coach the Hawks. If not Woody, find someone else. But make a commitment to a coach that is consistent with the long-term contracts of the nucleus. Stop asking coaches to jump through hoops.

• Link
• Report this comment

AJ, what I’m referring to my admitting his faults, is seeking help and being open to not always being ‘the man’ in the huddle. I mean look at Phil Jackson. He doesn’t run the offense majority of the times. Today, Phil Jackson still doesn’t understand the triangle better Tex. I guess I was always under the assumption that confessing is a two part process: one verbal and the other with action. The thing for me is I don’t see this year going too great with out Woody improving. And I’m saying if he’s willing to make the necessary adjustments to overcome his shortcomings, then he deserves a 3-4 year deal.

• Link
• Report this comment

Anakin Joe,

I like the idea of coaches signing to one and two year deals. It is not like they don’t get paid. This year is a perfect example. Advance throught the first round and get 50 wins (unless less there is major injury). We must play much beter in the second round. If we win the second round then Woody deserves a two year deal.

Woody’s strongest point is his ability to keep his players playing hard for him. If Woody gets resigned for a series of two year contracts. Means we have been playing winning basketball. Players live under intense pressure. No reason for the coaches to live any different. If Woody and the Hawks have a very good year and play for the ECF, ok, give him a three year deal. And Sund a big raise.

• Link
• Report this comment

geemack, not here to argue for or against it, just repeating what i heard. we also dont know who had what input or not when it came to the paul thing or anything else for that matter. maybe woody put his two cents worth in and nixed it for the guy being too small and a defensive liability. we also dont know how much input sund has into saying woody stays or goes and saying to woody this is what we expect going forward and the type of accountability woody has to work under.

what is a boss for than to make employees jump through hoops aj? most of us are not on multi year multi mil contracts and most marginal head coaches arent either. if woody steps up then i imagine he will get his due, relax. if the team wants him, they might play harder for him and it work for the betterment of all, you and me included as the wins come in bunches and didnt we enjoy that last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, I hope. Again, if not Woody, give the multi-year deal to another. I just find it laughable to think that a coach doesn’t make decisions based on their contract status. Decisions like, do I give Teage a chance to work through his turnover issues or do I keep playing Bibby, oh, wait, I may be unemployed next season… Bibby, get in the game.

I could assure you that in the NFL, a coach on a 1-year deal isn’t feeling too warm and fuzzy about playing a rookie QB or MLB. Why would that coach develop a player for the next coach?

Anyone notice the Pistons coaching situation the past 5 seasons? How many of y’all are willing to put a mortgage payment that the new coach lasts 2 seasons?

• Link
• Report this comment

Motion will allow our natural athletic ability to be utilized. There is no motion in ISO Joe. Josh is not being utilized to his strenghts by being placed in the corner. Marvin is wasting by camping out hoping someone gets in trouble enough to pass it to him. Hortford will never develop if he is never thought of in an offense.

• Link
• Report this comment

gee mack, we had nothing left in the tank by the time we met the cavs. it was disheartening but i dont qualify it as a quit if they quit it was on your coach you think needs more time here, no? it also may be due to the way the troops were handled during the season that left it so drained and may be one of the criteria mr gearon and you disagree on bro for a woody extention or did you forget? heh heh, maybe you answered your own question of why mr woody doesnt have four more years to go on a contract.

• Link
• Report this comment

hey what about signing joell anthony and desmond mason great guys to come off the bench

• Link
• Report this comment

doc,

Another Amen

• Link
• Report this comment

ok doc!!!! u will see next year.. all im sain joe smith is better then zaza, he will get more playin time then zaza.. so y would u keep zaza when u can jus have joe smith and develope sellers!! but ok..u like zaza.. he do alot of stupid stuff when he in the game!!

• Link
• Report this comment

doc:

he hurt himself playing in an ATLANTA summer league. I’m trying to see how bad it really is. Anyone?

• Link
• Report this comment

kevin a he kind of opened the door and walked right into that one didnt he?

gee mac you just cant say a guy needs an extension and in the very durn next post say that same coach who needs an extension had a team quit on him in the second round of the nba championships. dude, do you see how contradictory that was?

personally, ill say this, i am more sold on woody as our coach than i was last year. i agree with the powers that be, it behooves us to see how he manages the horses when he has a full stable … ok?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ramon- I agree with most of your 3:24 post, but no WAY is Vince a HOFer. Also, it is Stan Van Gundy.

• Link
• Report this comment

people have to wanna come to atlanta.. believe the hawks have reached out to some of these other all stars..and they said no!!! i talked to dwight howard the other day. he said that the hawks called him to talk about a trade.. he told them no becase they was too young and unexperienced…. but now that they have started winning some.. u see some people are thinkin about coming to atlanta.. thats y boston always get the best people. thats y lakers always get the best.. cuz they are already good!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

no daniel you havent, just kidding around as i hoped the little yellow marker would attest. you can try to correct it any time you want, others have and you can see how far it got. heh heh

also, i used to be an excellent speller but now i do spell check so you wont have that issue with me just to make sure i get it right. when they get punctuate check an cap check ill be golden.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ramon- OK, missed the Steve one. My Bad. I hear your argument on Josh; I am going out on a limb here, but I will stick with Marv. Hell, man I hope they all become All Stars and Joe is the MVP and Teague wins ROY, but I got to make some guess. I admit it is a little strange, just a feeling. If Marvin stays healthy (big IF there) I say he is our most improved player and the one that most helps us take that next step.

• Link
• Report this comment

Is Steve Van Gundy the dopey brother of Jeff and Stan? Kind of like Connor Manning, huh? Or Tito. HA!

• Link
• Report this comment

AJ, you’re right, Jeff. My bad. See he’s not even close to being as good as Woody. I forgot his first name (how I don’t know) for a brief moment.

• Link
• Report this comment

dos, rolf … lol and csl

you have just about summed up the whole of the individual parts on this blog as well dude.

• Link
• Report this comment

DOC-if Woodson makes the necessary adjustments, or at least enough of them to help the Hawks get to the next level, he’d get my support for an extension. My biggest problem with him has been his stubborn unwillingness to make adjustments, even when it’s painfully obvious they’re needed. In the beginning I was one of his biggest supporters, but like the man that hired him, former GM Billy Knight, I changed my opinion of him.

I can see our current Hawks getting to the next level by becoming a bigger, taller, stronger, more athletic and physical version of the Phoenix Suns, before the failed Shaq experiment. If we ran more, we wouldn’t be as dependent on Woody’s limited halfcourt OFF and there’d be far fewer ISO Joe’s.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hoopsworld at it again…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13643

• Link
• Report this comment

Will the hawks ever get a center?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken Strickland

August 21st, 2009
6:48 pm

You are the one whose stubbon and unwilling to adjust. You arent a coach, your opinion is childish, your stratergy is weak and your understanding is limited. No body pays you to coach or recruits you for you opinion. You are just a blog sight jockey full of anger and hate. You arent mentally capable of coaching a team, so stop being jealous of Woodson who has done a GREAT JOB. The city loves him. When he gets a legitimate center then the hawks will be ready for the next level. I see what truth serum means about you. Hater hater!

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee, Mike Brown was thoroughly outcoached by Stan Van Gundy – who i personally do not regard as a great coach – who on the other hand was completely outcoached in the Finals by Phil Jackson.

Mike Brown and Stan van Gundy both benefited from better overall rosters than Woody.

With the addition that Mike Brown not only has a beast of a player on side with Lebron but also all the hype and income for the NBA which grants him the protection of the refs (just look at how they stole from us a win in the regular season with a bogus call).

• Link
• Report this comment

IT’S ALWAYS THE SAME DAMN TOPICS OF DISCUSSION EVERY TIME I COME HERE FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS WHEN IS THE SEASON GONNA START DAMMIT AS;DFJASDFAMSDPCIAMPDIFAPSODIFMAPSIDFPASIDNFASDIFADF (ain’t hating on any of y’all, I’m just frustrated that there’s so little going on to talk about)

• Link
• Report this comment

Here is something that I have not heard mentioned yet, but is very important. At what point does Sund offer Woodson an extension? Woodson has to be offended that he has not been offered a contract yet, after taking the Hawks to the playoffs twice after a 10 yr drought.

If Woodson leads the Hawks to another playoff appearance, without a contract he could have Sund over the barrell come next June. The Lakers will have an opening next year, Miami may have an opening, depending on how Spoelstra does this year.

While everyone is talking about re-signing Joe, you better take care of Woody. His philosophy has worked. Another philosophy at the helm, with these players, may not produce the same results.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”

• Link
• Report this comment

dern dos now why didnt i think of that as something new to talk about. najeh is going to be real impressed that you brought up something new to talk about, this said very facetiously.

dos man did you fall in a hole or are you not serious with that comment?

• Link
• Report this comment

1) Okay, say Woody blow his chance next season. What coaches do you guys would make a good replacement?

2) As far as veteran leadership, where are Dominique Wilkins and Steve Smith? I know both of them are still around the team in some capacity. I heard Smoove was at least working some with Steve, but what about Nique, “Human freakin’ Highlight Film” right there and no one is hitting this man up for some knowledge. Anbody feel me on that?

• Link
• Report this comment

MYTHBUSTER-go back and reread your post and you’ll see you succeeded in describing yourself. That was nothing more than a rambling, negative, opinionated collection of BS from an individual that appears to be jealous of me. If you can classify everything I say as nothing more than my opinion, what makes everything you’ve said about me anything but your opinion? REMEMBER THE OLD SAYING. OPINIONS ARE LIKE A–HOLES, EVERYONE HAS ONE AND THEY ALL STINK.

DOS HAWKQUIS-If you must know, the numbers you quoted on JJ tells teams that if you double and triple JJ, you stand a very good chance of defeating the Hawks. Why, because we don’t have another player on the entire roster that can match his overall OFF production and versatility. If you’d broaden your thought process you’d also have a better understanding of why Woodson hasn’t been offered an extention. Unlike you, Sund understood it was BK’s trade for MBibby that led the Hawks to their 1st of 2 consecutive trips to the playoffs, not anything Woodson did.

Also, Sund probably realized last season’s progression was due to the marked improvement of young players like MWilliams and AHorford, the addition of FMurray and MEvans, and having Bibby healthy and on board for the entire season. I believe management is waiting to see if Woodson can prove to be a contributor to the teams progression rather than the beneficiary of the teams natural progression.

If management thought Woodson was as responsible for the teams progression and success over the last 2yrs, as some of you seem to think, he’d already be locked up with a longterm contract. By allowing him to play out his current contract, it’s obvious the Hawks aren’t worried about having to compete with other teams for his services. Now that’s my opinion, but if anyone can challege the logic behind these opinions, please have at it. But, please don’t come up with the kind of ignorant rantings and ravings like our resident hater MYTHBUSTER.

• Link
• Report this comment

mythbuster

August 21st, 2009
8:40 pm

Thanks for the shout out. Yeah, I agree. Ken is mentally challenged and full of anger. His position is unjustified and he is a true hater. He also has is the grand dragon of the southern chapter of the knights of the bubba crew. Just ignore is evil.

• Link
• Report this comment

richbrave

August 21st, 2009
9:20 pm

No, ken doesnt have any wisdom or coaches experience but He does coach his bubba crew in hatred.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dear Hawks Fans,

BEWARE!

This Blog is infected with a virus called MTAJ:

MOLES, TROLLS, AND JERKS!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Like we wouldn’t know?

Clueless is as clueless does.

• Link
• Report this comment

What the f*ck is taking so long on the Joe Smith signing? Jesus.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hoopsworld has David Lee as honorable mention, but no mention of Josh Smith? I’m surprised.

Can anyone think of two games where Woody outcoached his opponent? I sure can’t. Because other teams seem to dictate how we play, instead of the other way around.

Remember, Woody’s in game adjustments are:
1) play with more intensity
2) defend better

I give him credit for the defense, but if the Hawks let Woody go, the kind of teams who would be interested in him are teams like the Clippers, Grizzlies etc. A young team that knows they’re not going to win a championship anytime soon. A championship team would probably want Woody to be an assistant coach.

• Link
• Report this comment

I don’t believe JJ will sign until he knows the fate of Woody.

EXTEND WOODY=EXTEND JJ

• Link
• Report this comment

I also had similar thoughts, but it wasfrom the viewpoint that Joe would be signed first, then Woody. Keep it going.

• Link
• Report this comment

o’brien he hasnt looked like a rick adelman yet with his coaching. even the support of aj cant look past what adelman did even when he had two stars down and they pushed the lakers to max effort which he reminded me of recently. dont forget point three in game adjustment:

we need to rebound better.

again, i can wait until the season is over, to completely evaluate woody for our future. he can tell us to stuff it or accept a lucrative contract for four years and continue what he has started and asked his players to do. he may be the second coming of tom landry with his demeanor of …. HAT ON and HAT OFF.

• Link
• Report this comment

Myth Buster is going hard LOL…… Melvin that list stinks,horford is definitely better than “honorable mention’ status…. I dont know if he’s top 5 but i would take him over Okafor any day.

Poop- I feel you man this blog has gotten so boring, we know what happens around here in late August every year…CANIBALISM

KMJICE- Go back to the lab homie!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

KEN,

Why do you speak so condesendingly? When I mentioned that the Hawks may need to re-sign Woodson before he leads them to another playoff berth and possibly a 2nd round. You implied that I was “short sighted” in my assessment of Woodson. I don’t think that anyone on this blog knows for sure why the Hawks have not resigned Woodson, unless Sund is on this blog posing as DOC, ARIOSE, NIRE, MYSTICAL, BIG RAY, et al.

All that I am saying is that if Woodson takes the Hawks deep into the playoffs, other competitors may compete for his services other than the Hawks and their are no good, cheap coaches that the Hawks can bring in with credibilty. If they don’t re-sign Woodson, who are they going to bring in? Any top tier coach will want atleast 4mil per. Woodson can probably be had cheaper.

SAMUEL,

You had a good point!! JJ may just be waiting to see what happens with Woodson. So KEN, would you trade JJ to get a different coach? I really think that if Woodson is not re-signed, JJ walks, too.

I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

• Link
• Report this comment

This blog is starting to look like the old Falcons blog. The season cant start fast enough.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bottom line is if we bring in a different coach, the best he can do is go backwards. No coach will put us in the “top 3″ this year so why risk it. With Woody, he has proven that he can take an undermanned roster to the 4th Spot.

If I were JJ, I definately would not sign until Woody is signed. Under Woody he became an AllStar. Hopefully, he understands that and forces the ASG’s hand. Woody scratched his back so it’s time to repay the favor.

• Link
• Report this comment

How about them Dream ladies, huh? 14-11 record, 10 more games won from last season, 2nd in the East, they have two players that lead the league in scoring, and amazing rookie Angel who poured in 34 points last game? They meet LA on Sunday at 3pm. Please give it up for the Atlanta Dream!

• Link
• Report this comment

Just because you havn’t read it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. IMO, Woody has nothing to prove. He’s already proven he can win when given the player to do it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Enter your comments here

• Link
• Report this comment

Just because you havn’t read it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. IMO, Woody has nothing to prove. He’s already proven he can win when given the player to do it.

That’s what I’m saying. Now he has better players and a deeper bench. Can he take his team to the next level?

• Link
• Report this comment

Dos Hawkquis,

This isn’t a Woody bash, believe it or not. But define “winning.” To me, winning is having better than a .500 record, which Woody does not. And the Hawks had their first winning season this past season, in Woody’s five years here. I think the word we’re looking for here is “improving”, rather than “winning.” Now that I’m done splitting hairs, back to your normal scheduled program…

Astro Joe ,

Stop making a coach jump through hoops? Did you miss the last few years, buddy? Jumping through hoops has been the entire show, man! The ASG debacle, the Billy debacle, you name it. I believe it was Doc who mentioned that other organizations have let their coaches go under similar circumstances. In fact, I’ve seen “better” coaches let go for less.

I understand the idea of giving the man job security. Only, he HAS made it through two general managers so far. And despite all that has gone on, he’s retained his job. Sure, he only got a two year extension when Sund came on board. He could have been canned instead. Happens all the time. And now they want to see what he can do with possibly his best roster ever (i.e., can he and the team maintain a winning record and playoff appearance), and this is unreasonable?

I realize things have been bad, but at least the guy got to keep his job through all of it. He never was fired, even though his former boss kept trying to do it. If you ask me, Woody has a great attitude, and I’ve come to appreciate him more than I ever had. In fact, I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do with a stronger roster. As far as admitting his faults, I agree that this shouldn’t have anything to do with a new contract (or lack thereof). Hell, that’s natural progression. If he can’t do that, and subsequently improve the way he does his job, then he’ll fire himself eventually. I’m not worried about that. It’s a ticking clock that can and will go either way.

Of course, he could take your tack and walk into Gearon’s office and say “Hey man, quit making me jump through hoops! Either give me an extension, or fire me and hire somebody else!”

Wonder how that would turn out?

• Link
• Report this comment

KEN,

I am going to research and either prove or debunk your thesis regarding Mike Woodson. I am using your post August 21 @ 12:00 p.m.

When you stated:

5-We need to provide more rest for our starters by utilizing more of our bench, utilize more in gm strategy and commit more time and effort to player development.

I am going to look at utilizing more of our bench and player development, which you state as a problem with Mike Woodson.

I am going to look at the Lakers, Orlando, Boston, and Cleveland data from the 08-09 season. I will compare these 4 teams to the Hawks, since all would agree that last year, these teams were better than the Hawks. I will look at:

1.How many minutes their bench players had compared to ours.
2.I will look at the draft position of these bench players. (If they had better bench players than ours, then of course they would get more minutes.
3.I will look at how long the bench players has been with the team. (if the bench player was with the team for a longer period of time, he would be more familiar with the system)
4.I will then look at wins and losses.
5.I will look at the starting 5 and the top 2 players on the team.

My theory is that little time is spent “developing” 2nd tier players because they are usually journeymen’ not staying with a team long enough to be significant. They are sometimes used as trade bait, to acquire picks or to free up money.

“I don’t always watch basketball, because I am too busy doing research, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

You stated:

• Link
• Report this comment

Dos Hawkquis,

In my experience, all the stats and everything else you can use to compare teams when it comes to player development and bench use, has a way of being a two-edged blade.

On the one hand, you can debunk somebody else’s thesis. On the other, somebody can use the same resources to debunk yours as well.

Player development in my mind has to do with younger players. Yes, some are journey man (Randolph Morris will be one if he’s not careful…and maybe even if he IS careful). But most are not. Let me ask you a question when it comes to bench use and development: would the Boston Celtics have won a championship in 2008 without bench use and player development? I know, I know. You wanted to use the 08-09 stats and what not as a basis for facts. But I think their 2008 run is a great example. In fact, so was their run this past season.

Three key young guys to their championship win in 2008, and their tough 2nd round loss in 2009: Rajon Rondo, Glen Davis, and Leon Powe (in 2008, injured in 2009). Davis was drafted 35th and by the Sonics, not the Celtics. Rondo was drafted 21st, and by the Suns, not the Celtics. Powe was drafted 49th. Again, not by the Celtics, but by the Nuggets.

Davis was a rookie, and Powe and Rondo 2nd year players when they won the championship. All three played significant minutes that year and were significant contributors (and in the playoffs) in a 9-10 man deep Celtics rotation that helped keep Garnett, Allen, Pierce, and Perkins fresh. Gee, perhaps player development means something after all.

And based on their draft position, could you call them anything but 2nd tier players?

Just asking. Not arguing.

• Link
• Report this comment

NBA PM: Hawks Planning Well

By: Jason Fleming Last Updated: 8/21/09 4:58 PM ET | 3373 times read

Adjust font size:In this edition of the NBA PM: Give the Hawks credit…Some international signings…A Michael Jordan retrospective…Scrolling through the contracts…HOOPSWORLD chats.

Rick Sund Being Crafty: It’s time to give out some general manager credit to Atlanta Hawks negotiator Rick Sund. With three key pieces of the fourth-best team in the Eastern Conference last season as free agents (point guard Mike Bibby, forward Marvin Williams, and center Zaza Pachulia), Sund was able to lock all three of them up at relatively modest amounts.

Bibby cost them $18 million for three years – not bad at all for a starting point guard. Williams cost them up to $40 million over five years, with the team banking on the fact he continues to blossom and become more consistent. Pachulia cost them about $21 million over four years, solid money for a big man even if he isn’t starting.

But, it’s not just that Sund was able to get all three of them for less than $80 million; he also got them to agree to sign contracts that DECREASE in value in 2010-11. All three of these players will make the same amount in years one and three of their deals, but in year two is scales downward. For Williams and Pachulia, it scales upward again in year four.

Why is this significant? Because not only does it mean the trio will cost the Hawks about $2 million less in 2010-11 than in 2009-10, it also allows them to have a little bit of flexibility next summer if they want or need it.

The Hawks also reportedly have a four-year, $60 million contract extension offer on the table to All-Star guard Joe Johnson, who will be an unrestricted free agent next summer. The Hawks would love to lock him up as soon as possible, but Johnson is considering hitting the market.

It takes quite a bit of convincing for a player to sign a contract that will decrease. Even if all three players go out and have the best seasons of their lives, they will end up making less money the next year – it’s easy to see how uninspiring that might be. However, it also takes a lot of trust on the part of Hawks management to believe they can convince the players to sign that kind of deal and still bring 100% every night, knowing they will get a pay decrease.

If Sund gets Johnson to sign an extension (which given likely structure of a four-year, $60 million contract would probably mean Johnson would make less than this year’s $14.98 million in 2010-11 as well) and the Hawks continue to improve as they have over the last two years, he has to be in the discussion for Executive of the Year with Toronto’s Bryan Colangelo (if everything works out there as well). Sund also was able to trade Speedy Claxton and Acie Law for Jamal Crawford to strengthen the bench and bring in a big rookie point guard in Jeff Teague.

Discount the Hawks in 2009-10 at your own risk – they are quietly making themselves even better.

• Link
• Report this comment

More Mike Woodson data:

Games coached: 410

Wins: 153

Losses: 257

Winning percentage: .373%

Playoff games coached: 18

Playoff wins: 7

Playoff losses: 11

Playoff winning percentage: .389%

Didn’t Herm Edwards say “You PLAY to WIN the game” ????????

Dos Hawkquis,

you said this: KEN,

YOU DON’T KEEP A JOB IN THE NBA BY 1.DEVELOPING YOUR BENCH, 2.SPARING YOUR STAR PLAYER 3.NOT RUNNING ISO 4.LENGHTHENING YOUR ROTATION.

I’ll ask you to take a look at Gregg Popovich. He does ALL of the above and wins championships. Four of ‘em, in fact.

One size does not fit all.

• Link
• Report this comment

SAMUEL-if, as you say, PROGRESS is all that counts, why didn’t Woodson receive a contract extension after all of the PROGRESS the team made last season? Surely winning 47gms, securing the 4th seed in the East and going to the 2nd rd in the playoffs would be considered PROGRESS over last yrs accomplishments, don’t you think. Yet, you and all of the rest of the Woodson loyalist are still crying for Sund and the SAASG to offer him an extension. Maybe, just maybe management isn’t as sold on his overall contributions to the Hawks success, or PROGRESS, especially over the last 2yrs, as you Woodifites. SAMUEL, BASED ON THE FACTS I’VE JUST PRESENTED, DO YOU STILL INSIST THAT PROGRESS IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO WOODSON?

DOS HAWKQUIS-I wasn’t trying to imply that you are a short sighted individual, but when it comes to Woodson coaching the Hawks, you are rather short sighted. Some of you Woodson supporters have criticize and berated me for my opinion of him as our HC. But, isn’t it blatantly obvious that Hawks management also has issues with his coaching as well? Otherwise, why else would they wait another season before making a decision on his coaching future, especially after his team just completed such a successful season.

Finally, in my 10:50am post I challenged all of Woodson loyalist to explain where any of the issues I listed were wrong. As expected, instead of addressing the message, you’ve continued to attack the messenger. BOTTOMLINE, IF WOODSON STEPS IT UP AND GETS THE MOST OUT OF THIS TEAM, WHILE TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL, I’M ALL FOR GRANTING HIM A NEW CONTRACT.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dos Hawkquis,

You picked Boston as one of the teams to compare to, that’s the only reason I brought them up. No doubt 3 Hall of Famers helps, but notice the minutes the bench played, and the minutes those Hall of Famers played. One definitely helped the others. Based on their draft positions, would you say the Boston bench was second tier? I would. Based on their play, however, you probably would not. The reason? Development, pure and simple. Part of the development is definitely the influence of good veterans (especially Hall of Fame level). But are we to give all the credit of such development to those players, and keep it from the coach? Again, just rhetoric, as I would not compare Woody to Doc Rivers. Heh, heh, heh…

As for the movie “Taken”, I agree wholeheartedly. Awesome.

And as for Woody, I think he’s got a great attitude right now, especially towards his new rookie pg, and the additions to the roster (Crawford).

• Link
• Report this comment

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/pgStory?contentId=9966898#sport=NBA&photo=9968302
i do agree a little i dont knoe why you guys like crawford that much all he does is jack up bad shots and plays no defense and josh is immature….

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken why you get so upset when people disagree with you? You do the same with them. Check some of the post you wrote, and you will see what I’m talking about.

• Link
• Report this comment

ken
you are so on with your assessment of the hawks & our beloved woody. our offense & defense sucks. i watched the knicks in there championship years. the ball movement was unbelievable, the hawks ball movement is just horrible {there is none}just a lot
of isojoe. our defense leaves a lot of mismatches,is this good coaching. it was said in an earlier blog that josh only made 42% of his shots. he played so much better than jj,but people keep saying how great jj is. when woody is gone & jj starts playing team ball we will improve.

• Link
• Report this comment

So the Hawks and Joe Smith are still in contact… That’s great, because the Hawks need him badly. And, I don’t think the Hawks will sign another big man until they get a better look at Garret Siler. I can not wait until the season starts… GO HAWKS!

• Link
• Report this comment

BIG RAY-your comments were well put. The idea that I hate Woodson is pure BS, because I don’t know enough about him personally to harbor such strong feelings towards him. I just don’t like the way he’s gone about coaching the Hawks, and in some instances, dealing with the talent he’s had over the last 2yrs. I was a big Woody fan at first, just ask CLYDE. We had some serious issues about Woodson in the beginning.

All teams have weaknesses. Even Boston had weaknesses during their championship season and we exposed some of them during our playoff matchup. Their main weakness was their very poor transition DEF, which we successfully exploited during home gms, by playing uptempo. When playing in Boston, we slowedd it down and tried to match their halfcourt superiority, and got blown off the court each time.

My #1 problem with Woodson’s coaching is his stubborn resistance to allowing the team to consistently play the uptempo style of OFF our team and talent is best suited to play. He insists on forcing the team to play a halfcourt OFF even though virtually everyone that’s seen the Hawks play recognizes we are at our best when we consistently run run run.

I think forcing the team to play so much halfcourt is his way of compensating for overplaying his starters and using such a short rotation. If he releases the hounds and allows the team to run, run, run, he’d have to expand his rotation, which would require the utilization of more players.

I won’t be upset if Woodson is offered a new contract at the end of this season because it would mean he did something right, and the team had a very successful yr.

• Link
• Report this comment

Have to point out that if the hawks are successful again more than likely next summer we will again be debating whether it was due to Woody’s coaching or “natural progression” from our younger guys. I know everyone is bored and this topic is just the flavor of the minute, but still.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mystikal
Have to point out that if the hawks are successful again more than likely next summer we will again be debating whether it was due to Woody’s coaching or “natural progression” from our younger guys. I know everyone is bored and this topic is just the flavor of the minute, but still.

It is what it is. We do not have a veteren team. Woody coaching young players is what happens when we dump all the vets and decide to rebuild. Remember 5 years ago? By the way, they are still young.

Ken,

JJ is the man, JJ likes to slow it up and play iso. JJ likes the walk it up the court style of offense. JJ has led the charge to 47 wins. I don’t think Woody will change anything JJ does.
This is why I don’t like the idea of JJ getting an early contract. If the season goes bad look for JJ and Woody to be gone. If the season goes well look for both to be resigned with a raise.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken Strickland,

I know you don’t hate Woody. And I understand the frustrations that you have with him, all too well. It doesn’t make you a hater, though you may be labeled that way. As you say, I’ll be happy to see him get an extension if he keeps this team winning. Right now, he’s in a good position. He has to help this team tread water until we have what it takes on the roster to contend with the top teams. But that’s all. Nobody is asking him to take this roster and forge a Larry O’Brien trophy out of it. Nobody in their right mind, that is. However, if this roster improves, by either organic growth or transactions (draft, trade, free agency), and he is not able to help the team get to contend at the highest levels, it’s time to look in other directions. Until then, no sense in judging him for not doing a job that can’t currently be done by any coach.

• Link
• Report this comment

it is almost silly to think jj is not going to sign until woody is signed. i assure any and all if the money and length of contract is right he will have his name on the paper. those are the real criteria. when he sat down with his management team they didnt sit there and say well our first criteria to staying with the hawks is to make sure we express to them that if they dont extend woody we dont go forward. no they sat down and did it like every other player does with an agent and say what do we want as mine then work it back from there to establish what they thought market value was and how far they were willing to go under what they thought that was in order to feel right about extending with the hawks. woody’s name might have been brought up but it is not one of the main contingencies.

samuel that is a huge reach, like expecting a home discount. how many times has that worked? sounds good and fervent in your support of woody. samuel havent tried to argue with you on any of your pros on woody and have all along considered him a good man and hopefully a guy who can bring it on. if we do sign joe smith and maybe one other big player then there will be no excuses for playing players in shifts but playing players as pieces to change the ebb and flows of the game and counter the other coach. i have seen little of that, until now, except for what i think is an inadequacy of somehow getting some players to play above themselves realize his tools have been limited but he was one of the last in the city to realize mario had value in spot situations at the end of a game of quarter. the loss to the nets where he had josh smith on vince carter instead of mario is just one glaring example where he wasnt using what he had. yeah great shot but josh had to give him room to get it off because he isnt quick enough to stay with him. never should have gotten the ball. so, maybe it was as simple as he didnt have the horses, this year he will. ill give him that crutch one more time.

in the mean time samuel, think about what you are implying if jj gets what he wants. do you really think they are going to say we are tabling this until you sign woody? just isnt rational is it? i mean turn down a 4 year contract at 16 mil a year to make a point that they want the coach back. come on, you dont expect me to swallow that one do you?

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, you didn’t meet my ex wife lol. Lot of yang going on.

• Link
• Report this comment

We want Flip!

• Link
• Report this comment

What is a GOOD COACH?

doc river was about to be run out of town before he got the big 3. mike brown got coach of the year and their were rumors that his job was in jeopardy. sam mitchell was coach of the year and he got canned. if doc didn’t have 3 hof, would he have been coach of the year and won a championship? if mike brown had the hawks players and mike woodson had the cavs players, what would be the result?

i don’t even think that phil jackson is a “good coach”. i think that byron scott is, but his team was blown out in one home playoff game last year. the term is relative, relatively speakin’.

• Link
• Report this comment

KEVINA-If what you suggest about JJ and Woodson is true, it makes you wonder who’s running the asylum. If JJ, and not Woodson, is responsible for us playing so much slow down halfcourt instead of playing uptempo OFF, that’s a negative reflection on Woodson. Personally, I find the idea of JJ’s unwillingness to play uptempo hard to accept since he played most of his early career with the run and gun Suns.

ANT BANKS-Doc Rivers also won coach of the yr honors as Orlando’s HC, and he managed to accomplished that feat without 3 future HOF players. He also got fired shortly thereafter. If Woodson had been the HC of the Cavaliers, there’s no way they would’ve achieved the same level of success they’ve enjoyed the last couple of yrs. Why, because Woodson’s limited OFF system would force them to become primarily jumpshooters, and that’s not their strong suit. They’re known primarily for constantly attacking the basket and forcing the issue in open court. That’s not Woodson’s preferred style of play.

On the other hand, I have no doubt MBrown would have designed an OFF system that would have us attaking the basket and playing uptempo. There’s no way he’d allow teams to get away with consistently double/triple teaming JJ. Beign a DEF minded HC in his own right, I’m not sure he’d allow a one dimensional DEF liability like MBibby to be his starting PG. I’m willing to beat he would’ve gotten a lot more production out of SJones and ALaw, because he would have given them a much greater opportunity to prove themselves. I’ll bet he would’ve given ALaw every opportunity to start, and utilized his speed, quickness, DEF and penetrating ability to initiate his uptempo OFF.

DOC-I have to agree with you on JJ signing a new contract. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s so loyal to Woodson that he’d forsake a substantial raise from the Hawks just because they might decide to hire another HC. Would he have the same attitude if they fored Woodson and promoted LDrew to HC? Suppose he really is refusing to resign until Woodson’s fate is determined, wouldn’t he still end up with a new HC if he went to another team?

Looks like teams have finally realized AIverson isn’t the player to take a team to the next level. His greatest success was with Philly, under HC LBrown. That was the only time he was not required to play PG. When on OFF, he played SG and ESnow ran the point. On DEF, he defended the PG and ESnow defended the SG. When he’s at the point, he becomes the OFF and the ultimate ballhog.

• Link
• Report this comment

Based on that Hoopsworld article posted by Ray, can I say it again? Is Sund a genius or what? Also says a lot about Bibby, Zaza and Marvin taking pay cuts to better the team. Part I didn’t like was about JJ wanting to test free agency. Hope that’s just a rumor.

About Mike Woodson: Woody overall has a losing record. He has only had ONE winning season in his head coach career. Now he has improved his record every year, which is what every employeer expects from their employee. But I say he still has a lot to prove. And this is his year to prove it. Sund knows this, which is why Woody will not be extended this off season.

I like Woody. In a whacky sort of way, I wish Hawks would stand apart from other teams by being the only one to keep the same coach and core players for years to come. But the only way Mike will succeed with his new team is to overhaul his offensive sets. And realize that you can’t switch on defence everytime if Bibby is on the floor.

Samuel, you said the big three improved. Yes, on paper. Hawks are more cohesive right now, though. Remember, Orlando will be playing without Lewis for the first ten games of the season. That’s gonna hurt. And the Cavs are already trying to trade Shaq? Word is still out on Garnett’s knee. And Boston has Rasheed, who would likely cost them a crucial game by getting an ill-advised tech.

I’ve been a Hawk fan for so long, that I’m not suddenly expecting them to win a championship next season. I’m just enjoying watching them grow and improve, which goes for the head coach also. Hawks are not better that the big three, but if they can hold on to the 4th spot, I’m good with that. Again, this is the NBA. Where the impossible does happen!

• Link
• Report this comment

Ray, the recipe, ingredients and cooking utensils are pretty much the same as last year. Sund and the ASG like the recipe, ingredients and cooking utensils, I know that because everyone has been asked back (with long-term deals over the last two summers). So if the meal works, why not give the chef some love? If we were going from a steakhouse to Asian fusion, then I could see the reason for hedging the bet. But we’re going from cooking ribeyes to cooking slightly better ribeyes. Lastly, how many chefs get fired because they don’t know how to cook their food? A lot. So back to my original post… no more two year contracts next summer. Either commit or move on. I don’t care who the coach is next summer, let’s make a commitment to that person.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mike Woodson – good coach (on one side of the ball)

Doc Rivers – good coach w/o KG, Great coach with KG

Mike Brown – good coach, but gets too much credit (has Lebron)

Phil Jackson – Great at getting most out of players/coddling egos but not a developer of talent or team builder – MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq
call what you want

• Link
• Report this comment

Jesus, the more i think about it the more i realize how terrible that analogy is. You really have no clue what a chef does. It’s absolutely, positively nothing like being a coach. If you’re going to make an analogy, at least make one that makes an ounce of sense. But this is Anakin, part of Samuel’s Cult of Woody the Witless. Sense will never come.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hoops, you said,

I get amused at the number of experts on this blog when it comes to coaching the Hawks. Most people on here have coached nothing more than their son or daughters Rec. team and that makes them an expert.

Could you compile a list of the experts vrs just fans? Are you expert enough to make that determination? If not who would be that person. If you compiled a list of experts from this blog would they agree on everything? How would our experts stack up against other web site experts?

If we all agreed with everything about the Hawks the blog would fold. You seem to think your opinions hold more water than others. Please correct me if I’m wrong. What experience do you have that separates your elite thoughts from the ill informed and wrong minded bloggers.
Makes me think of bloggers complaining about the boredom of the blog. Is it really that exciting to read about being bored? Are they experts? Mercy.

I normally ignore rhetoric about anything that does not focus on the Hawks. I think we have a great blog. The biggest problem with our blog is the personal attacks on each other. We should welcome the diversity of opinion. We should welcome disagreement. If we disagree we should articulate the difference of a particular issue in a friendly spirited way.

But then again I am no expert.

• Link
• Report this comment

Woody/Sund made huge decisions resigning players. It is obvious they chose the possibility of organic growth and chemistry improvements over free agents. Personally I think it was a great option exercised. Will everyone play better and go less injury free? Who knows. I do like the idea of continuity. This idea of continuity and organic growth may take more than one year. For those who think a championship is within reach this year or next is probably wrong.
After this year we may have a good idea of on which our young studs have plateaued or still have upside. Wether JJ/Bibby/Crawford can develop a better flow on offense with the young studs encourages further evaluation. I see more upside rather than downside.

• Link
• Report this comment

UGA, what is your fear. Childress would cost 5-6 million, maybe less. JJ would free up 15 mil and the trade of Crawford would free up 10 million. That leaves 18 million to replace JJ and give Al a raise.

If Crawford plays great and Al gets a raise to 7-8 million that still leaves a 7 mil upgrade somewhere. Teague becoming a good player in his secound year opens up a lot of possibilities.

• Link
• Report this comment

KevinA,

GREAT post on the so-called expert stuff. Great post!

Ant Banks,

It’s like this every summer. Welcome to canniblogging ( copyright by MannyT )

• Link
• Report this comment

Yahoo,

Are you really going to reference Deuteronomy of the King James Version in response to somebody’s post? Wow…how about something from Song of Solomon from the NIV, so we can promote the love around here?

All this talk about how unfair life is for Woody. The man got a 2 year contract extension from his new boss for the purposes of evaluating him. Surely it’s reasonable to allow him the full two years to show what he can do. I’d say that’s fair for both the evaluator and the evaluatee, no?

• Link
• Report this comment

Wtf is up with this blog? We get 1 blog a week and the articles are 2 paragraphs long about things no one thinks twice about…A 2 paragraph article about Mario making the team? is that the best we can get in the last 2 weeks? How about an update on what Marvin or JJ specifically did this summer to improve their games? Every summer, LeBron focuses on one element (defense/shooting for example) and improves it greatly–what is JJ doing?

• Link
• Report this comment

Well, from earlier. Who cares about the money, there is no comparison b/w Joe and Childress. IF the Hawks lose Joe they better hope Wade or somebody is coming in. Joe does have some flaws, but if not for him, we would not have even been discussing the playoffs these last 2 years.

• Link
• Report this comment

How about this:

Sund & the ASG have essentially asked Woody to jump through one more hope, the ‘09-10 season. And they have presumably provided him with his best roster (assuming that Joe Smith puts pen to paper). My hope is that next summer, someone will get a 3-4 year contract to coach the Hawks. If not Woody, find someone else. But make a commitment to a coach that is consistent with the long-term contracts of the nucleus. Stop asking coaches to jump through hoops.

I ask again, which hoops might these be? Unless I’m wrong, Sund offered Woody a 2 year contract . So the ‘09-’10 season is the second half of that contract. I still fail to see how it’s unreasonable to take the entire two years to let Woodson do his thing, and evaluate his progress (and that of the team) from one year to the next. If you only evaluate him and his team on one year, what can you possibly compare it to, other than his job performance under a different GM? How this translates into jumping through a hoop is beyond me. I don’t know what you’re wailing about, because you can bet that what you hope for is exactly what’s going to happen. Either he’ll get a longer contract, or somebody else will be brought in.

I could assure you that in the NFL, a coach on a 1-year deal isn’t feeling too warm and fuzzy about playing a rookie QB or MLB. Why would that coach develop a player for the next coach?

Your analogies kill me sometimes. An NFL coach on a one year contract. Is there such a thing, and how in the devil do you compare THAT to an NBA coach on a 2 year contract?

Again, we’re not talking about a one year deal. We’re talking about the second year of a two year deal. Even then, Woody is the one who signed it. All this talk about hoopjumping would make me think that surely Woody is a dumbass. After all, he’s the one who signed the contract, did he not? I guess maybe he realized that this is how the business goes (or haven’t you noticed) for coaches in the NBA, and that he also wanted to keep the job. Maybe he realized he had a new/different boss. Maybe he realized his sterling win-loss record might not be enough on his resume. Maybe he wanted to finish what he started.

Or…he could have listened to you, taken his injured pride, and told Sund and the ASG to cram all these damn hoops up their collective butts. I’m sure that would have looked better on his resume.

Anyone notice the Pistons coaching situation the past 5 seasons? How many of y’all are willing to put a mortgage payment that the new coach lasts 2 seasons?

Anyone notice the Hawks coaching situation the past 5 seasons? I have. Two different GMs in that time period, and one head coach through both. Name’s Mike Woodson. What’s your point?

KevinA, but most of our players are signed to 4-5 year deals. If you all haven’t noticed, the success among NBA coaches is horrific. I just think that a coach who has led one of the youngest teams in the league to 3 consecutive playoff appearances (after starting with a young & ultra-cheap roster) may get a few offers that are better than 2 years of more hoop-jumping.

Uh, how often have you seen coaches get contracts that are in line with the contracts that players get? It just doesn’t work that way, and I can’t imagine how you don’t see that. Only the best coaches have any kind of tenure, although a case can be made for the perennial winners. Yet even they change jobs. The criteria for keeping the job is ever-changing. Guys like Flip Saunders can get you 50 wins every year, but still get fired. Why? Because maybe for the team they’re working for, 50 wins isn’t the benchmark. An appearance in the Eastern Finals may be that mark. If “winners” like Saunders are subjected to this kind of treatment, then what about guys with records that aren’t even close to winning (I can think of one)? It’s the nature of the business.

And I’m willing to bet that if Mr. Woody gets that 3rd consecutive playoff berth, he’ll get a fine and dandy contract offer from the people he is currently working for. Funny thing is, some of the staunchest Woody critics have all stated their agreement to such a result. Yet the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues, as though Woody had been burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, and hanged (and not necessarily in that order).

doc, I hope. Again, if not Woody, give the multi-year deal to another. I just find it laughable to think that a coach doesn’t make decisions based on their contract status. Decisions like, do I give Teage a chance to work through his turnover issues or do I keep playing Bibby, oh, wait, I may be unemployed next season… Bibby, get in the game.

Okay, just give some new guy a multi-year deal, just for the sake of it? Only if said person was a proven commodity.

• Link
• Report this comment

you know ray, if there were so many other teams around banging down woody’s door last year then he could have signed elsewhere last year. he also got a raise based on how many years of losing basketball? not sure but if memory serves me woody didnt have to sign the contract. woody had two years on his contract last year and still only played 8 guys so wtf point is AJ not making there ray? maybe AJ can fill us in since he was on the acie train last year watching woody ignore him on a two year contract and now seemingly reversing his own stripes and being woody’s supporter this year thinking if he has another contract woody is going to change his stripes as quickly as he did. schizo or just delusional or just making time here until the season starts?

• Link
• Report this comment

And that’s my contribution to healthcare reform!

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, I hope. Again, if not Woody, give the multi-year deal to another. I just find it laughable to think that a coach doesn’t make decisions based on their contract status. Decisions like, do I give Teage a chance to work through his turnover issues or do I keep playing Bibby, oh, wait, I may be unemployed next season… Bibby, get in the game.

Huh. Sounds like somebody with a focus issue, and an inherent ability to multitask, manage, and delegate. A head coach is a manager. After all, he does have a staff. Why not delegate someone on the staff to work with Teague, then give him PT when appropriate?

I don’t think anybody is asking Woody to play Teague bunches and bunches of mintues, and winning be damned, although there seems to be a suggestion that this is what people are wanting. I know it’s not what I want.

The idea that you’re developing a player for the next coach can only be rooted in the assumption that you are going to be fired or otherwise not re-signed at the end of your contract. Does Woody have a solid reason to think that way? If he does, then he should just quit NOW, right? That’s simply the wrong attitude to take, and Woody at least, knows that. So he goes back to work, hard as ever, preparing for the job at hand. The one he’s getting paid to do.

Here’s a question: Should Woody ignore Teauge altogether, on the possibility that he might not be coaching the team after next year? Might his ignoring his first round draft pick be detrimental to the goal of getting a contract extension with his current team? I’d think so, especially since Sund publicly stated that player development is one of the things he thinks is important, and that he will be evaluating.

One more time for those in the cheap seats: I don’t think anybody is asking Woody to play Teague yeoman’s minutes, and not try and do what it takes to win each and every game. Teague is part of the present, but moreso the future. If YOU want to be part of the future, might you not want to do what it takes to help secure that future? I would. And I’d also want to show my current boss that I’m interested and invested in the future that he’s trying to put together.

…or…you could just say to hell with that young fella. I’ll worry about him in his second year, IF I get the contract to stay on.

• Link
• Report this comment

“oh joy, a sunday school lesson to boot today. man sekou, better come up with some news fast, this thing is going to heavens.”

ROFL!!

Doc,

I’ll take choice D. We’re just making time…

• Link
• Report this comment

VAVA74-you don’t have to foresake DEF in order to become a running team. The SHOWTIME Lakers proved that. HC’s that favor a run and gun style of OFF often use it to mask their inability or unwillingness to coach DEF. The same holds true for HC’s that focus on DEF to try and mask poor OFF schemes(see Woodson) and/or an unwillingness or inability to coach OFF.

AM I GOING TO GET THE BLAME FOR ALL OF THIS WOODSON TALK? Hee, Hee!

• Link
• Report this comment

So, what are some of the better objective ways to measure a team’s offensive effectiveness? Or said differently, what are some of the quantifiable ways to measure a team’s offensive performance? Or defense for that matter?

• Link
• Report this comment

Yahoo,

“You should quote my entire sentence:
I don’t think he knows anything about love peace and happiness based on that comment.”

Precisely my point. I’m not willing to make an assumption of any kind based on one comment, especially if I don’t know the person. It just so happens that I DO know this person. And I understand that frustration or having a bad day can lead to a comment like that. Therefore, I am not willing to mention or assume the permanent qualities or characteristics of a personality based on a single comment. I’m not saying that you WERE willing to do such a thing, but you were also the one who brought up the idea of not making assumptions unless you know somebody. I think that covers making assumptions based on a single comment as well, or do you disagree?

Either way, I know the guy, so consider the bluff called. Well, in a manner of speaking. I don’t mean this to sound hostile (seriously).

As to the other stuff, if you noticed, I was careful to not call you self-righteous. Since you are willing to work with quotes, here is me quoting myself:

“One small hint: hypocrisy is a parasite that manages to infect all human beings at some point in time, even those who think themselves most righteous. Hard to be a saint, easy to be a pharisee.”

Did I call you self-righteous, or did you just think I was? I wasn’t. But I was warning you that you might come across as self-righteous to others. I mean, responding to a comment not directed at you by quoting a bible verse? No, nothing wrong with that, but what exact response are you expecting from YOUR response? Just curious.

And I’m not calling you a hypocrite either (not without calling myself one, anyway). I’m saying it effects all of us. That’s all.

I wasn’t shooting your comment down. I just happen to know the guy, which you undoubtedly didn’t think I did. Heh.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think one way of measuring a team’s offensive effectiveness starts with looking at how and where they score, consistently. Does a team run ISO plays with the intent of exploiting various mismatches when the ISO is contained or otherwise stopped? Is their bread-and-butter built on the pick-and-roll, and who are the main cogs in that set play? Do they run a series of screens designed to free their main shooters? Do they use a motion offense that relies on a mix of slashers who get the ball while in motion, and shooters who get the ball off of screens?

Do they score more in the paint, or off the perimeter? Is there a balance of the two? Do they do the bulk of their scoring while running, or in the half court? Again, is there a particular balance or set percentage?

A bunch of questions, I know. But consistency is where it starts, and every team has a pattern. Those who don’t, are the beneficiary of chaos. Chaos works to an extent in the regular season. In the playoffs, it has little to no chance against decent competition. I think the measurement of a team’s offensive effectiveness can begin to be measured on what the team employs with regularity, and the adjustments or options it uses when an opposing defense seeks to, or is succesful in, disrupting the offensive team’s primary scheme.

Did that make any sense at all?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken,

You may have a point – I personally don’t think you have – however, you cannot counter argue to the following:

Good defensive teams, which are poor offensively, win more games than good offensive teams which are poor defensively.

Also, the Showtime Lakers were OK on defense but not excellent: They won because the ran under Magic’s command AND had Kareen still effective in the post for half court sets.

Get Al to master the skyhook and I will also agree for us to run more often!

• Link
• Report this comment

Alright Sekou we have been patient (ha!) what is the deal with Joe Smith?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ray, I’m asking about something more quantifiable, like scoring avergae, field-goal shooting percentage, offensive efficiency or some other metric that bloggers feel is a good indicator of offensive performance. For example, I like opposing team’s field goal percentage as a very good measure of a team’s defense. Some teams could play a pro-version of 4 quarters, slow the game down and allow very few points. But that is more about their offense and less about their defense. But if you are defending well, forcing bad shots, blocking shots, etc, then the field goal percentage of the opposing team should be bad. Granted it doesn’t take into account forcing turnovers or hacking shooters and creating a bunch of free throw attempts, but I still like it as a good barometer. So my question is, what is a good one to measure a team’s offense?

doc, who needs to change their stripes, Woody or Teague?

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou, wasn’t it reported that the Hawks extended qualifying offers to both Solo and Mario? We let Solo go so he could pursue greener pastures (i.e. play time) up in Indy, but what’s the deal with Rio? Did his QO expire, thus requiring him to play his way back onto the roster?

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, I guess I don’t understnd the tactics that need to change relative to playing rookies. He gives them a couple of months to get their feet wet and if they produce they stay in the rotation and if they don;t then he moves on to ensure the team’s success. Again, I’m not sure why that would need to change (regardless of contract status).

• Link
• Report this comment

vav74- I think those are reasonable points; although developing a low post game depends on touches and have Josh Smith behind the 3 point line is NOT a good scheme. Josh has shown flashes of some nice low post moves with an up and under and running hook. I hope that he and Horford make a home in the low post this year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Pdub,
according to his article dated this past Saturday, Sekou said that Mario’s contract offer is non-guaranteed. This is the type of deal he has been on since he has been a Hawk. Yes, he has to “make” the team.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/will-mario-make-121618.html

• Link
• Report this comment

Tribe…9pm post last night…100% agreed.
We need updates on whether Josh is working on post game…Is Marvin improving his handle and court instincts (is this possible). What is Al doing to take his game to the next level.
We are a month til training camp and I think we would all like some more updates on our core group. A solid bench is vital in the NBA but its our core of stars and there continued growth that is going to bring us closer to the 3 seed

• Link
• Report this comment

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Joe Smith has a mystery injury. I wonder if he either hasn’t passed on can’t yet pass a physical. Again, just pure speculation on my part as I try to think of reasons why this isn’t yet done. Maybe, because they have an agreement in principle, they aren’t in any rush. Maybe, with a signing of tis nature, the ink to paper is a mere formality that can happen whenever they get around to it. In another week, this will beome a September signing. Strange.

• Link
• Report this comment

Yahweh- Does that apply to a person who writes a blog in your name? Especially when that “person” sits in judgement of others because he sees them as being judgemental?
Hard to get the splinter out of your neighbors eye when there is a plank in yours.

• Link
• Report this comment

I say if the Hawks were smart u dont’t offer JJ an extension right now..I say this for 3 main reasons:

With no extension,,
1) JJ plays his BUTT off to get the money he wants
2) making our chances that much greater to passing orlando for the 3rd best team in the east &
3) giving us the chance to be #1 in our division..

With an extension
1) JJ can once again play lacks in doubled-team situations knowing he is locked to another guaranteed 3-4 yrs.

• Link
• Report this comment

MS Dee- all I can say is that I am glad you are not the GM. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Yahweh- Don’t worry, I’ll catch you when you fall off your high horse.

• Link
• Report this comment

Who care if we sign 34year old joe smith i dont.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken- I know it is August and we are all a bit edgy and bored right now, but man, we keep hearing the same argument from you over and over. We all get it. You think Woodson has not done a good job as HC. You do not think our improved win totals are a good indication of the job Woodson has done. We should run more, develop rookies better (amazingly the development of Horford, Williams and Smith don’t count)and if someone else were coaching this team(don’t know who) we would have already at least been in the conference finals.
Good grief, how many ways do we have to hear the same thing?

• Link
• Report this comment

Manny, jhan & Samuel, I think one of you guys should draft Michael Beasley in the 1st round of the fanatsy draft. It would be a risk-free selection.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4419340

• Link
• Report this comment

I think it’s great that Beasly(or someone) acknowledged/realized there was a serious problem, and steps are being taken to deal with it.

Dude will probably be a monster next season. I remember one game this past season where he was nearly destroying the Hawks. I think the Hawks may still have won the game, but Beasly was tearing it up.

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, oh yeah, and I also remember the rumors that Pat Riley was hoping to trade out f the #2 pick because he wasn;t a big fan of Beasley. So maybe some of those issues came up during the background check. I always thought it was strange that Riley seemed less-than-thrilled, considering Beasley looked like a potential scoring machine in college (and a potentially great side-kick for Wade). Again, i wish other young men with demons would atack the problem early, like Beasley appears to be doing.

• Link
• Report this comment

doc, back to the Woody issue. Here’s my analogy (Stating the Obvious, please scroll now). If Tommy Hanson runs into 6th inning trouble, Cox will likely allow him to pitch out of it because it is a great learning opportunity for the youngster. Back to basketball. Teague commits 3 consecutive TOs at the 9:00 mark of the 4th quarter leading to 6 unanswered points by the opposing team. The lead is like 5 points (one way or the other). Does Woody allow him to work thru that learning experience or does he yank him for a veteran?

I think knowing “how much rope” to give a young player is a very, very hard issue to manage. Not only could you lose the player (see Joey Divine in baseball) but you could also lose the game for the team (see Joey Divine in baseball). It probablyisn;t quite as obvious in the NBA, but my guess is that if we diligently watched a rookie PG like Mario Chalmers last season, we likely would have seen many instances when his rookie mistakes put the game in jeopardy for his team. Of course, Spoelstra didn’t have anyone near Bibby (or Crawford for that matter) to try to save the game. Still, the balance between player development and winning games I think is a tough one.

• Link
• Report this comment

KEN OR ANYONE ELSE,

Can you tell me who is responsible for making sure that Mario develops some type of offensive set? How do you leave college, early mind you, and not know how to make and take a jump shot.

Where, when, and how is Woody supposed to get Mario ready to compete on the NBA level. I thought that Mario was supposed to bring something to the table?

“I don’t always watch basketball games, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”

• Link
• Report this comment

DANIEL-It’s obvious you get it, but there are still those who don’t. If you’ll notice, I’ve responded to individuals that either have questions or are offering opposition. You might be bored with my responses, but your boredom isn’t reason enough for me to cease and desist. I’ve noticed no one has voiced their boredom with those who’ve repeatedly posted their support of Woodson. Could it be that I’ve been able to present numerous and varied facts, illustrations and concerns to support my position, while supporters have found few legitimate reasons to justify supporting him, other than the teams annual increase in wins, or progress, if you will?

DANIEL-IF YOU THINK I’M THE ONLY BLOGGER THAT’S EXPRESSED HIS OPINION OR POSITION ON A PARTICULAR TOPIC MULTIPLE TIMES, THEN YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE PROBLEM, NOT ME. AND IF YOU THINK WOODSON IS THE ONLY TOPIC OF DISCUSSION I’VE ENGAGED IN, THEN YOU’RE HEARING WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, WHICH IS A BYPRODUCT OF SELECTIVE LISTENING, AND THAT’S ON YOU AS WELL.

• Link
• Report this comment

There seems to be one big difference between this off season and past off seasons. In the past, we’ve requested and gotten updates about the off season progress of certain players. I remember when we were told how Smoove was bulking up and getting stronger, or how he was working on his postup OFF with HOlajuwon. We also received updates on Marvins progress on extending his shooting to 3pt range and ALaw’s hard work to improve his gm.

So far this off season, we haven’t been given a definitive idea of what progress Marvin, Horford and Smooth are making. That should be a major topic of discussion for a team who’s primary road to progress is going to be dependent upon organic growth.

For one, I’d like to know if we can expect the amount of drastic improvement on the things Marvin is working on that we saw last yr. Is Smoove concentrating his off season efforts on further improving his post up OFF, or trying to improve his outside shot? What is Horford working on. I’d like to see him become less machical and more fluid in his post up OFF.

SEKOU-is there anyway for you to find out if our current OFF system will be expanded, modified or upgraded in any way to incorperate the additions of Teague, Crawford, and possibly Joe Smith?

• Link
• Report this comment

AJ,

about this: “doc, back to the Woody issue. Here’s my analogy (Stating the Obvious, please scroll now). If Tommy Hanson runs into 6th inning trouble, Cox will likely allow him to pitch out of it because it is a great learning opportunity for the youngster. Back to basketball. Teague commits 3 consecutive TOs at the 9:00 mark of the 4th quarter leading to 6 unanswered points by the opposing team. The lead is like 5 points (one way or the other). Does Woody allow him to work thru that learning experience or does he yank him for a veteran?”

First off, if Woody has Teague playing in the 4th quarter AT ALL, it’ll mean either he’s changed his stripes or Bibby is injured and Crawford in foul trouble. Don’t hold your breath.

I think the BIG thing with Woody was not that he yanked someone (Acie usually) after a mistake, (that’s bad enough for a young player), but that he’d give him a dnp-cd after a GOOD outing.

If Acie and Solo were coming in last year and making “game losing mistakes”, then OF COURSE Woody would NEED to pull them out. But what can you say when he denies a player court time after a productive outing?

How is THAT tied to having “just one more year” on his contract? The player has JUST SHOWN a penchant for productivity and you somehow protect your job by SQUELCHING it?

And do you remember a single time last year that you thought “Acie (or Solo) just lost this game”?

I can not. Not a single time. Because mostly they were given insignificant minutes.

• Link
• Report this comment

Oprah is running some great stories right now.

The Hawks.
Will get 50 wins
speculating
Josh Smith is working on dribbling, jump shot, and post moves
Marvin Williams is working on his dribbling (shooting off the drible, going to the basket off the dribble)

Mario West is not getting a guaranteed contract because the main thing he has going for him is hustle and that can be easily seen and determined during training camp and making him push for it. Mario won’t disappoint, but I completely understand the Hawks on this.

Has anyone seen the “Rock N rolla”?

Horford is working on patience because he will need it this season while he is being ignored in the paint.

refine in 09!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Dos Hawkquis,

Mario completed his eligibility at GT. Got a degree, too.

And he was not asked to be a shooter in Tech’s scheme. He was valuable for how well he could press.

Of course he should try to improve his shot (shouldn’t EVERY player?), but don’t put him in the “left early without enough skill” box.

• Link
• Report this comment

vava74,

It’s not that cut and dried about our free agents this year, and that’s because of the economy. If we still had LAST YEAR’S economy, I’ll guarantee you that Zaza, Bibby AND Marvin would have been visiting other cities. I refuse to be down on Josh for exploring job possibilities. And I don’t think it’s fair to lump him with Beasley. Other than his dust ups with Woody, has Josh EVER gotten into trouble?

And how do you know (unless you personally know their agents) that this year’s group DID NOT listen to other offers? All we know is what’s been reported. Yes, they expressed wanting to come back, but didn’t Brand say that to the Clips?

My point is, enough money can make you listen. There was NOT much money to be had this year. Don’t leave that out of the equation.

• Link
• Report this comment

I like those tough, give it your all, somewhat big guys. Those guys who come off the bench, C/PF type players that crash the boards, giving it all they have, getting tough put backs and getting to the line. ZaZa is that player for us, but I think we would be MUCH better suited if we had a player that was JUST like ZaZa, except more athletic. Any guys out there like that the Hawks might can get their claws on??

• Link
• Report this comment

Astro Joe,

You and doc (and Ray) were discussing whether or not the length of a contract for a coach should / could /does affect their approach to player development.

The most recent examples we HAVE are Acie and Solo. I wasn’t trying (at all) to bring up the past, but using their example toward that very argument. It does no good to project the future in proving or disproving the subject.

I don’t see how the fact that Woody only had “one more year” on his contract had ANY effect on his “lack” if you will of developing his young talent, given his actions. If you can show me how, ok, I’ll listen.

• Link
• Report this comment

dos hawkquis,

Did you possibly MISS this part of my post:

“Of course he should try to improve his shot (shouldn’t EVERY player?)”

How is THAT not clear?

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee, I think we will likely learn that Solo and Acie’s playing time had more to do with them than Woody. And if it was my original comment from Friday that started all of this, I’m pretty sure that I used Teague in my example, still not sure how Acie and Solo keep coming up.

And I am definitely guilty of over-valuing those guys. I can’t help but think that if Solo were ready for bigger and better things as a player, that he would not have accepted a position behind Hibbert, Murphy, Foster & Hansbrough. Unfortunately, Acie will likely need to wait until he gets away from the Warriors before he has a realistically shot to prove his case as a rotational player.

But hey, I’m the guy who often suggested on this very blog that with the right coaching, Salim could become a poor man’s version of Nick Van Excel. Now that’s HILARIOUS in hindsight.

• Link
• Report this comment

There really is no issue as far as playing rookies or not playing them is concerned. If they are good enough, they will play. If they aren’t they won’t. Simple as that.
Hawks Rookies:
A Horford 31 min 77 starts
J Smith 27 min 59 starts
J Childress 29 min 44 starts
S Williams 19 min 31 starts
A Law 15 min 6 starts

Now, doesn’t their PT equate to their abilities as players?

I fully expect Teague to play if he’s good enough. If he’s not he won’t. That simple.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let’s face it, fans over-value their players, especially the back-up players. We see a brief glimpse of them and we decide that they are a diamond-in-the-rough. I bet anything that in each of the 47 cities where Ike Diogu has played, a devoted group of fans have demonized the coach for not giving a guy with low-post skills a chance to blossom. My guess is that all of those coaches weren’t wrong, more likely, Ike didn’t earn court time based on his practice sessions. Had there been a blog when we had Dan Dickau, is there any doubt that his rare highlights would have been met with “he could be the next Mark Price, give him more time”.

I think the reality is that when you on an NBA bench, it means that you truly have exceptional game. That you are talented enough to earn a paycheck in the greatest professional basketball league in the world. You are likely one of the best 1,000 players in a world of tens of thousands of players. RandMo is an elite basketball player because he earns a paycheck in the world’s best league. And because he has the basic talent to play in this league, he is apt to have good moments on the court. But he is NOT (yet) an elite professional player. So those moments are fleeting. It doesn’t mean that dude is a scrub player, he would surely dominate each of us and our 2 best friends. It just means that when we see that brief glimpse, maybe we shouldn’t assume that he is on his way to becoming Hakeem Olajuwon. Maybe, he just had a good Randolph Morris moment. There are so many more examples of Melvin Ely, Cedric Simmons, Jerome Moiso, Marcus Haislip and Stromile Swift than there are of Paul Millsap.

• Link
• Report this comment

Has anybody come up with any “quantifiable” way of measuring a team’s offensive effectiveness, that meets ASTRO JOES precise definitions? Anybody at all. Whats the matter yall don’t want to engage in a circular discussion that has no point?

• Link
• Report this comment

Is it possible that our rebounding struggles come because we shoot so many jumpers? How can that be the front court’s fault. And then there is the iso clear out to give JJ more space. If Al and Josh are not underneath the basket by design, Is it their fault if there is no rebound. Then there is the offense scheme where ZaZa, Al and Josh end up at the top of the key alone. They shoot, we groan. Is that their fault?

JJ and Marvin need to drive the ball and take it to the glass or shoot those floaters with Josh and Al boxing out. Thats how we play to our strengths and are in position for a rebound.

Of the top 5 players in about any position their ability to drive is one of their best weapons. We need to force our driving weapon.

This is one of the reasons Flip and ZaZa worked so well together. He drove a lot and ZaZa cleaned up when he missed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Three veterans named Bibby, Flip and Evans added much more than any rookie on our team in a long while.

• Link
• Report this comment

KevinA,

I’ll argue that Horford gave us more in his rookie year than any of the three you named. But your point is well taken.

And I’ll disagree about the number of wins. For all ANY of us know, if we’d had a longer bench, maybe we win 50. That’s impossible to know either way.

• Link
• Report this comment

Vava74,

“he will be a loser like Vince Carter, Zach Randolph, Amare, Boozer and Bosh (players who have talent, put big numbers but have major flaws in their games).”

Those guys are losers? I tell you what. First, a large percentage of this blog has and still will vote to ship Josh out for at least three of those guys if given the chance, or have you missed out on the talk involving Josh in trades? I’m not saying I would, but a lot of people here have already expressed the desire to trade him for Amare more times than I care to count. I’m not sure you weren’t one of them.

Second, if Josh puts up the kind of numbers that Amare, Bosh, Boozer (and even Randolph) put up, he’d be an all-star . Coincidentally, so are they ….well, except Zach Randolph. The only reason I don’t include Carter is because he doesn’t play the same position. Yet he’s an all-star as well.

Third, Josh does have attitude problems. But the minute he checks into or is forced into a rehab clinic is the minute you can compare him to Michael Beasley. Furthermore, Beasley plays like he doesn’t care nearly all the time. Josh has a fire to him, which he sometimes forgets to stoke. Beasley had the basketball fundamentals and skills coming out of college that Josh never had. He can handle, he can shoot. Josh still doesn’t do so well in those areas. Beasley has more potential in those areas. But he lacks the fire. Josh doesn’t lack the fire. He lacks the focus.

• Link
• Report this comment

Continued…

This is an opinon of a journalist. Image how the refs feel about him…

How do the refs feel about Ron Artest? Rasheed Wallace? Kevin Garnett? When Josh comes close to leading the league in technicals and starts getting tossed out of games, call me back.

The difference was on the attitude: Bibby, Zaza and Marvin IMMEDIATELY said that they wanted to come back and showed that they did not want to drag on the negotiations.

Josh immediately said the same thing back before Sund came here, BEFORE Billy Knight offered him $45 million over 5 years. I remember that. By the way, the man we’ve built this entire team around has been offered an extension by Sund. Not only has he not signed it, but he hasn’t said one word. Which means he has not “immediately expressed an interest in returning to the team”, and media reports are already stating that he may want to explore free agency. That’s after we’ve spent $70 million on him. I don’t have anything against him for doing it, as I see it as something that happens all the time. But if you’re going to give Smith a hard time about it, what would you say to JJ? Even then, there’s still no getting around the fact that the economy was different when Smoove signed, versus this year when the other guys signed.

He thought that he was worth more than he is: no one picked him up besides Philly before going for Brand and Memphis, who made a move just to shut up the fans who were seeing absolutely no action in the market from their depressed organization. We had to hold on until he realised that he wasn’t so hot and an offer we could match comfortably was made by someone.

So what exactly did he think he was worth? Apparently $58 mil was okay with him, because he signed the offer sheet, and it was okay with the Hawks, because they matched it within hours of him signing it. I guess he thought he was worth more than $45 million, and guess what? The Hawks agreed. By the way, not many teams went after him because Sund declared that retaining him and Childress was top priority. Would you tie up your money in an offer sheet (unless you really need to), knowing that the home team is likely going to match it? Same reason why Marvin didn’t get a pile of reported offers. Lastly, do you think the Memphis front office only made that offer so that they could shut the fans up? Would you REALLY offer to pay a guy $58 million dollars, and think that there is no way he will sign it? Better yet, would you bet $58 million dollars that the other team won’t match? If you’re wrong, you now owe somebody $58 million dollars, and you have to PAY IT. Come on man, you’re smarter than that…

Having said that, unless J-Smoove changes his game PRONTO, he is actually overpaid and may not even reach the status I believe is the most adequate for him:

Okay, I have to agree with that, though conversations about whether a player is overpaid or not are always murky. I thought Rashard Lewis was overpaid, but can you put a price on what he gave Orlando in it’s run to the Finals? On the other hand, you’ll probably never convince me that Gilbert Arenas is NOT overpaid. His contract/performance disgusts me. Back to the topic at hand: I agree that Smith is not performing up to the standard, and this past year he didn’t give us what I think his contract was worth. Again, this kind of conversation can be murky.

A deluxe role player: a rebouding and blocking machine who gets his points in put backs and on occasional post moves and an 15feet shots (MAXIMUM DISTANCE ALLOWED).

I can roll with that, too. But being a deluxe role player doesn’t mean the person isn’t an all-star. Would you call Scottie Pippen a deluxe role player? I might.

J-Smoove should fill the stat line this way: 16ppg 14rpg 3apg 3bpg 1,5spg 1to on a 55% FG accuracy.

The 16 points, we know can (and have been) done, but…..14 rebounds a game?? Seriously? You’re asking Smoove to do something that even Dwight Howard didn’t quite accomplish this year (he was close at 13.8), though he did last year (14.2). Let me put this another way: Shaquille O’Neal averaged 13.9 his rookie year, 13.2 his sophomore year, and 13.6 in ‘99-’00. Since then, nowhere close. Two of the greatest centers playing right now. And you want Josh to match/trump both. Heh. I think 10 or 11 is far more realistic, and still a difficult thing to manage.

So, 3 blocks, 3 assists, 1.5 steals, and just 1 turnover a game, along with 55% shooting.

My friend, if Josh can give us the stat line you suggested, then we are cheating him at $58 million….And if that’s what he should be giving us, then what on earth would you expect from JJ?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ray, again, I see the fact that apparently Beasley acknowleges the issue is a very big step on the path to maturity. And especially at such a young age. At least now, everyone may have a better grasp on how to help him continue to grow. To me this potentially puts him well ahead of Josh in the attitude dept.

I don’t think Josh will ever admit he is lacking in this area. Especially when he is continuously enabled by those who try to put it on Woodson.

• Link
• Report this comment

Somewhere in Chicago, a guy by the last name of Paxson is grinning to himself. There was a time when people laughed at the idea of him picking yet another guard, particularly ahead of the kid whose college stats were greater even than those of the much-hyped Kevin Durant.

I’m not wise man, but in my mind, Beasley’s talent always seemed tainted to me by his attitude. I once stated to the venerable HB Ando that I thought if anybody could talk himself out of the #1 pick, it was Beasley. He was saying all the wrong things. It wasn’t just the stories about what he did on campus. It was what was coming out of his own mouth. No sense of maturity whatsoever. And so, he did indeed get drafted 2nd, rather than first.

No, I don’t suggest this was solely because he talked too much, or because he acted like he didn’t care (which he did during college games, showing even more how much potential he had if he ever stayed serious).

Now he’s checking into a rehab clinic. No, he hasn’t fallen yet, but his rookie campaign was hardly breathtaking, and certainly nowhere close to Durant’s. How nice that we are talking about him nipping the problem in the bud, dealing with it early, so on and so forth. All of this is true, and I agree with it.

How about a quiet golf clap for those who have avoided this altogether?

• Link
• Report this comment

Ray, again, I see the fact that apparently Beasley acknowleges the issue is a very big step on the path to maturity.

I see this as a step on the path to RECOVERY. That’s why they call it a REHABILITATION FACILITY.

Maturity is not getting yourself there in the first place. Or if you do anyhow (lack of maturity), then you take steps to ensure that you never need to go there again.

Once more, let’s here it for those who have avoided such things, instead of crucifying them for the smaller problems in life, while martyrizing those who have taken lower paths. Holy crap, people!

• Link
• Report this comment

Having said all that (I’m still mad), I sincerely hope that Michael Beasley can get his situation squared away. He needs all the support he can get. Hopefully he can get away from whatever it was that led him to where he is now, or learn to better deal with it. It’s always sad to see someone with great potential lose it all, or even part of it. I agree that it’s a good thing that he is dealing with this now, rather than letting it fester for years, while he gets bounced out of the league and out of life in general.

I’m sure there are many people out there who do in fact have his best interests at heart, and I hope he accepts their offers of help.

• Link
• Report this comment

Good post Doc and Big Ray.

What if Teague plays above expectations, would this make Bibby expendable????

• Link
• Report this comment

Melvin,

Nah. Bibby is still what he was when we first got him: a veteran guard who can run the team, can finish games, and is deadly from anywhere on the perimeter if he has the small amount of space he needs to shoot.

Same reason Portland signed Andre Miller. Teague may show himself to be good enough to get some serious burn. Bibby gives you a steady hand that can start and/or finish games. And as much as I like the addition of Crawford, I feel that he’s better as JJ insurance and as a second fairly high level scoring threat. Besides, we need somebody who has playoff experience at that position (big-time playoff experience is even better). Bibby has Teague, Crawford, and the soon-to-be-gone Flip beat by miles where that is concerned.

A good example is Boston’s 2008 team. Rondo was doing a good job, but Boston needed Cassell. Hell, without him they would have been even harder pressed to beat us in that series.

• Link
• Report this comment

…And it might be a good option to explore against teams with bigger/faster backcourts.

• Link
• Report this comment

Big Ray,

All the guys I mentioned are losers: Amare is a loser who has no interest in defending or playing for his team. He puts up big numbers for his own recreation.

So is Bosh who is just a finesse jump shooter and an extremely poor defender and an average rebounder.

Vince Carter will show this year again what he is: a good player for three quarters and a major choker.

Boozer has proven to be a bad team player and not as tough as his numbers suggest.

Being an all star does not necessarily translate in being a very good team contributor: it’s a popularity sign (starters) and then a commercial issue (reserves are selected for commercial reasons most of the times from the list of players who got a lot of votes but just missed the selection).

So, in theory, I prefer J-Smoove to all these guys since, as you mentioned, he has the right type of fire in him.

The problem is how he uses it.

In relation to rebounding: rebounding and size are not necessarilly linked: J-Smoove has enough size and has the “repeat-leap” hability to be a huge rebounder (I am talking about the hability of jumping several times in a row without loosing gas).

I think if he really put his mind to it he could emulate Rodman’s rebounding technique and get the 14rpg I was talking about (he sometimes does that and gets 15/17 rebs, the problem is that on the next game he loses interest and only gets 2 or 3).

Also, it is frequent for PF’s to get more rebounds than C’s because centers are usually less mobile and are more occupied trying to move their matchup away from the box.

Howard is a good rebounder, but excellent, and Shaq was a moderately good rebounder.

In both of them, their rebounding hability is linked mostly with the space they eat in the paint more than with their hability to read the ball movement and anticipate the point where they can snatch the ball.

As for Beasley, I only mentioned him because someone in the forum was talking about him and mentioned that he creamed J-Smoove and I merely mentioned that getting a lot of points against J-Smoove, unfortunately, is not a great accomplishment on account of his poor one on one defense.

I have no interest in players like Beaseley: he is talented but is heading the wrong way.

• Link
• Report this comment

BA,

Love the way you’re thinking. Good post, and maybe we will get to see exactly that. I’d love it! By the way, good to see you around.

• Link
• Report this comment

Big Ray,

If and when we can bring Bibby off the bench because Teague is ready to start, we will be a better team. That will improve our defense as well as our athleticism. I also can see Bibby being very productive off the bench.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby is destined for a Jason Terry role on this team when Teague is ready. I doubt that he will be “ready” in what would be his junior college season. He only needs to be ready by the time Bibby’s contract expires. Anything before that is gravy.

doc, hopefully you were kidding about the comment “playing big minutes to save his coach”. I’ve read that sentiment before and it makes no sense to me. Someone around here used to say that “Flip saved Woody”. As if Flip weren’t trying to play for his next NBA contract. Does LeBron play well because otherwise, Mike Brown would be on the street? Conversely, did Stuckey miss shots so that his second coach could be fired in 2 seasons? If Teague plays well, I’m sure that it will be because of all the things he has said since draft day, mostly that he wants to be the best PG from this year’s draft. He sounds like a self-motivated man, which is far better than someone who needs an external force to get them moving.

• Link
• Report this comment

melvin, bibby is the mentor, they like him have probably discussed it with him in contract negotiations and essentially given the mantle to do just that by gearon when he discussed teague on 680 the other day. bibby is highly thought of in this organization and not going anywhere anytime soon. uh end of discussion.

when do the naysayers on joe smith come back to deflect away from lightening rod josh?

• Link
• Report this comment