Another Joe, another Smith?

outstanding!!!

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When the deal goes through it will be great.

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I would say it the same as the other big teams but with less of a gamble. We know what we have and just got better

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While I won’t care too much who we sign once Joe Smith is in the fold, I’m NOT a big fan of Gerald Green. He does nothing to improve this team’s IQ. I’d stick to the guys who know the core, coaches and scheme… like Hunter, Mario or Gardner. I also like Mike Wilks, I just don’t remember if his short tenure as a Hawk was with Woody or Stotts. Let it be, let it be.

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I agree with Stephen. Assuming this pans out, we have improved ourselves as much as the Big Three (except, possibly, for Boston) but at less of a risk. A trusted veteran who provides leadership, skill, and toughness? As Sekou said, Joe Smith fits the bill perfectly.

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Wait, I can hear Clyde coming…

“How does this help the fact that Horford sucks? Sund should have traded for Sean Williams instead.”

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I think the Hawks had a great off season…I think RandMo and Siler are locks at this point…so I’m hoping Othella Hunter is given another shot.

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Good aquisition. Would like to see Siler make the team in the developmental mode.

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I think this will be a great move for the Hawks. Joe can spell guys at 3 different positions if needed. Had we had a guy like this last year in the playoffs, Cleveland wouldn’t have had such an easy time against our front line. I also believe Hawks can challenge for the 3rd seed if everyone stays relatively healthy. I think Orlando will slip. Vince Carter is great but he cannot provide the versatility that Hedo did in Orlando. I see chemistry issues with that team all season long. It’s gonna take a while for those guys to mesh. Here’s to a great season in Hawksville!

GO HAWKS!

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Grade?

A-

The Minus is for tossing Flip, IDK what you say, it’s not smart, Regardless of Teague.

As long as Slier and RandMo come back, we will have a very deep and underrated front court crew.

Woody can go a few different ways with the rest of the bech. Cenk Akyol is still waiting on he Hawks b4 he makes his decision on Europe(I say we trade him) Then theres Korolev, I like Rodney Carney, and It can’t hurt to bring G.Green to camp either….Sundiata Gaines could be a cnadidate for that 3rd PG spot(I hope nire doesn’t lecture me for that on heh). Either way, things are looking good in Hawksville so far.

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OOPS LOL, I meant

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niremetal

August 15th, 2009
11:35 am

Horford has limited offensive tools, is playing out of position, and is mediocre over all.

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As i have said many times, I dont know a lot about basketball. I do know when a club is doing its damnest to put a solid team on the floor for the Atl. fans. I hope the fans really turn out.

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Nice move gettin Joe Smith. He should be able to help in tha frontcourt and help keep a beter rotation of players so 2 give the hawks more rest for the season something the hawks didnt really have last year was a good bench past mo, flip and zaza.. morris is raw and hunter i dont remember him in a game . the only one that did get playin time was soloman jones and he was ok at best.. Joe Smith can only help these young hawks players with veteran leadership and just overall experience .I remeber him being a good rebounder and can score a lil bit and distrub a few shots comin his way.. GM Sund as done a great job this year keep tha team 2gether and addin a few pieces without goin over board for lets say a shaq or vince carter. Because there outta there prime and would just be a waste of good money that could be spent next year on big name free agent or to keep Joe Johnson.. Either way the hawks shold be competive for alot more years to come and that should say alot of team that has just been dismal most of this Decade….

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Give me Hunter, Siler, and Gerald Green. I like Carney but I think Green would be cheaper. I just don’t see any room for Mario. I like his energy and all but Green is 6′8, can play the 2 and 3, can hit the j, and is athletic as hell. I think he has improved a lot since his time in Boston. I read an article about how hard he is working this summer on all aspects of his game. I like Mario but I would rather have a guy like Green who can at least knock down a jumper and finish at the rim.

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Cp, it’s either hunter or siler, I doubt Woody takes them both. I would go with Siler if that’s the case. But who knows, Maybe hunter will make the squad. BTW Mario will probably come back. Woody will choose him over Hunter, I think.

I’m not saying this will happpen, just trying to think like the Wood man.

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I like it!

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Most impressive offseason I’ve seen in a long time, *Sekou*, though I’m still tempted to bring in a Siler along with Randolph to ensure that depth and to build a deeper, meaner team (something Woody will do this season, or he will lose his job).

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Ariose,

I’m with Dos Hawkquis on this. I know Flip’s your boy (same as Salim was), but it would make no sense for him or for us. From his perspective, he just came off the best year of his career and he’s not getting any younger. He needs to find a place where he’ll be in the rotation and have a shot at another good season, or else he’ll slide back to journeyman status for the rest of his career. Here, there’s no guarantee that he’ll get any PT at all with Bibby, Crawford, JJ, and Teague all needing to get minutes in the backcourt.

And from our perspective, it would make no sense rotationally to sign Flip unless he were willing to sit on the end of the bench until someone gets hurt (which would make zero sense for him for the reasons I gave above). Any minutes he gets are minutes that could have gone to Teague. It’s that simple. If Sund wants to guaran-fracking-tee that Teague wastes away on the bench like Acie did, then signing Flip makes sense. Even as it stands, Teague probably won’t be playing more than 12-15 minutes per game. If Sund wants Teague to have a shot at developing, he definitely should not sign a guy who will cut those minutes even more.

And that doesn’t even get into the finances – Flip isn’t a Bird free agent, so we’d have to use part of our mid-level to sign him, and I say we’re better off saving that money in case we need it to sign someone in March/April (a la Drew Gooden from last year).

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Hey Sekou, the reason that I’m always asking your opinion on various subjects is that I know you have a much greater understanding of the NBA, and the Hawks in particular, than I do. Now, if I had a direct line to Sund or Woody, they could probably answer my questions if they chose to tell the truth.

Anyhow, If you have the time to answer a couple of the following questions — I would appreciate it.

– Ownership – How and when do you see this issue being resolved once and for all? Assuming the ‘Spirit’ aquires uncontested control of the Hawks, do you feel they have the money, desire, and competency to build a championship franchise?

– Do you think Woody can be an upper-echelon NBA coach?

– How would you project the development of Al Horford and Josh Smith over the next two years?

– Your opinion on Teague, and how you see the minutes at point guard divvied up this season. Will Crawford play significant minutes at point?

– Should we have a ‘hack a Shaq’ set ready when we face the dominate centers? Let Siler or Morris use their 6 fouls in a rotation with Al and Zaza.

– Your opinion on the situation with JJ. When do you think the best time to negotiate an extension would be? What do you think would be ‘fair’ in terms of years and dollars?

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As much as I would like to see flip back in the rotation he is either going to derail the development of Teague or be unsatisfied with his playing time.

Let us not down play the effect Joe Smith will have on Josh Smith. Joe Smith could really help Josh play more consistently and focus on the little things.

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Assuming this move will happen, Sund should get an ‘A’ for his work this offseason. It will be interesting to see if the media give Sund that same credit and love that Dmitroff has gotten for the Falcons? Gotta ask Sekou to make sure he gets Sund his props.

I agree with the 1st 10 slots that have been listed above. RandMo will probably get one since he is under contract. I think if 13 are kept, Woody would go with Mario (who can give a few minutes at 1 & 2) and Hunter (minutes as 4). If we keep 14, Siler could get that slot if he shows enough during training camp. Otherwise I would guess on a true point guard then a 3/4 player.

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I’ve stated that I like Flip and it would be great to have him, but for his sake I hope he goes somewhere he can play more and get paid more. I deserves Mo’s contract, if not 1M more per year. He’s probably going to have to go to Europe to get the kind of money he deserves. Crawford for Flip is an upgrade, just like Bibby for (guys 1,2,3,4) was an upgrade.

If Sund finalizes things with Smith, then he gets a solid A- for this summer. The only way he could have done better was a trade. There was nothing else realistic out there, except things that would have blown up the team. (trade JJ, Horford, etc) The only player that thought realistically could have come and I would take over were Smith was Bass. Sund did really surprise me with the trade for Crawford, that was an excellent move!

Sund, finish the play and then have a great summer!!

GO HAWKS!!

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How the heck did it take us 4 weeks to come to an agreement on a 1 year veteran minimum deal?

Did no one else want Joe?

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Actually makes a lot of sense, which in the not too distant past you couldn’t say that often about the Hawks, but is now becoming more commonplace, Way to go.

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Siler will definitely make the roster. We don’t need offense in a big back up center, we need beef and he brings a buffet table full. We get pushed around every year and now we can develop a defensive enforcer in Siler. He’s a lock.

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CP, I agree. But you know Mike, he hates change and he’s stubbourn lol. But you’re right, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a longshot for Mario to make the team.

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I’ve seen that Hert Guy somewhere before lol(probably at the end of someones bench), I’d rather go with L-III or S.Gaines. Give somebody else a chance to be a perennial bench warmer hehehe…..

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Nire, why do you have to keep bringing up the fact that Salim was my guy hehehe…. Can’t we move on from the past please Yes, it wasn’t one of my shining moments lol. Like Obama says, “Change, We need NOW!!!!”

Besides I was actually a Damon fan first, I guess I thought Salim would duplicate his career at the least

I was, moving on to a new chapter until I.Mus brought it up yerserday

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Nire, ROFL a Beidrens Face!!!!! LMAO!

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Ryder you sa JJ shoudn’t be gien an extension (that isn’t even close to max if he doesn’t lead them to the finals. So woul that mean Boston was stupid to do it for Pierce BEFORE they even dreamed about Garnett and Allen? Or what about Wade, he hasn’t lead his team to that level without another all star player yet.

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This contract pending with Joe Smith is not as roster changing as being stated here. Joe does not provide us the one thing we need at center, beef. He will get pushed around by Shaq/Ilgaskas (Cavs), Sheed/Perkin (Celts), Howard/Gatat (Majic), even Dalenbert (76er) & Curry (Knicks)& Chandler (Bobcats. He does provide insurance at 3-4-5? spots.

Siler must make this team,as RandMo has a contract, we need his size & fouls.

The following comes from Rainman which is the best suggestion for handling the 1-2-3 teams in the East:

Should we have a ‘hack a Shaq’ set ready when we face the dominate centers? Let Siler or Morris use their 6 fouls in a rotation with Al and Zaza.

I cosign that thought!

Hunter should also get a look along with Gerald Green. We could use their youth & athletism for rebounding & defense on perimeter; love West but he may be on his way out.

Depth would definitely have improved! The only remaining question, has Coach Woody?

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PS If we could locate a straight jump shooting assassin, I would trade out Hunter.

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Good move! Now the Hawks are 10 deep and the only team with similar young talent in the east is Orlando. Siler given time and coaching will be a solid NBA starting center. Keep the core together and let them grow. 2/3 years down the road this team is in the finals and bringing home Atlanta’s 1st NBA title. Can you say Detroit?

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KEN STRICK:

I’ll alert the media in D.C. immediately. MURRAY should fit right in with SAUNDERS anyway. What’s in a name and better than having eight guards? That’d be nine guards, especially since the WIZ new coach only likes playing a rotation of eight, total that is. Sound familiar?

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Great to have Joe Smith on board (once he signs), very good off-season for Sund. I can now say I am satisfied, although wouldn’t mind signing one more big for the low. Then trade Randmo for a backup small forward behind Marv (of course w/ expiring contract). Then finish roster with Siler and Korolev.

I really liked Flip last season, but at this point think bringing him back could be counter productive. He would take minutes away from Teague, whom we really don’t want to see rotting on the bench. There are already not enough shots to go round, so after adding Crawford and Teague that would be more shots taken from Smoove and Al.

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All I did was Rate Ricks moves this off season and List the reason why I gave him that particular grade. Nothing more, Nothing less, no “clamoring” involved.

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*The Thunder aren’t trading us Durant. The Magic aren’t trading us D-12. And other than those two guys, I don’t see any future 1-man franchises out there.

(And you definitely can make a strong case that Dwight is already a one-man franchise. But I still consider him a half-cut below LeBron, Kobe, and a healthy Duncan)

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By the way, I wish Woody would ask Hubie Brown to be a special consultant for him.

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I agree, but actually Sheed had been an All-star b4 his detriot days, so they even had 1 All-star, and so do we.

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We just have to stop handing the ball to JJ early in the shot clock. He can learn to get open without the ball and then do his thing.

nire, the solution isn’t to subtract JJ. It’s to surround him with better talent.

He has the talant around him. JJ and Bibby need to do a better job using it. With the addition of Joe Smith we should not so afraid of fouls. Feed the youngsters and let the good times roll.

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I hope I haven’t annoyed the hell out of everyone. Sorry about posting so much Track stuff, the AJC is killing me that they are giving anyone any coverage back in the States from what my friends have been pounding my email and cell saying (I knew I should gotten the internal plan before leaving for 5 weeks).

The problem about Joe Johnson is that there is a camp that just won’t let the trade that brought him here go. The proof is the pudding and Diaw was not going to lead this team to 25 game improvement. What have the draft picks that we let go done realistically? it was a bruise in the short term but I like JJ; and, I do not have an issue with a player like him on the B level of NBA stardom.

If anyone is interested in the rundown on Day One here and a preview of the Day The Earth Stood Still in Berlin (I kid you not, it is a madhouse), just drop a note and I’ll post it… I’ll be up another two hours working off my late dinner…

Peace… JSS

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.Rick Sund can drink from my water canteen any day.

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O’Brien

August 15th, 2009
12:57 pm

As it was last year so it will be this year… with out a center the Hawks arent going to the finals. I have a couple of bridges for sale if you are interested.

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ARIOSE-Come on, don’t get overly emotional on this issue. I don’t remember singling you or anyone out when I made my comments. If anything, my comments were directed to anyone suggesting we trade Crawford, Evans or anyone else so we could resign Flip. If the Hawks had any desire what so ever of retaining Flip, why didn’t they tender him an offer?

Any team that wants to retain or resign a player will make him an offer, or at least some effort to show they want him to return, but that definitely hasn’t been the case with Flip. In fact, there hasn’t been a mention by anyone, except some disillusioned fans, about the possibility of the Hawks bring him back, or even wanting him back. READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

Flip did a good job for us last yr, but we now have JCrawford, a player that provides what he provided, and then some. And, Crawford can do his thing without having to control/hog the ball. After all, we have enough of that already?

I don’t understand this idea that we have to have a banger. It would be nice to have one, but we don’t need one. Didn’t we win 47 gms without one last yr? Like I’ve said before, the Suns thought that way last yr when they made the mistake of trading for Shaq, and they became a worse team with him than they were without him. One banger off the bench, especially one that can do little else, isn’t going to make any significant difference. That type of thinking is one of the main reasons we have so much trouble with bigger teams. Instead of forcing those teams to match our speed, quickness and athleticism, we keep trying unsuccessfully to match their size, height and strength.

We need to use the old ROPE A DOPE. Instead of always trying to slug it out, or trying to beat them at their strength, we should stick and run, wear them down, and go for the kill in the 4th qtr, like Ali did to Foreman. In other words, use the other teams size, height and strength against him by making them chase you. STOP THINKING LIKE WOODSON AND START THINKING LIKE SOMEONE THAT HAS A CLUE.

You see, I said I wasn’t going to make him an issue. But everytime I try to stop, THEY PULL ME BACK IN.

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Ariose, to strengthen your argument, Lakers didn’t have a ‘banger’ this year. And Horford is just as physical as Duncan is known to be. But one thing we do have, is two post players who aren’t scared to knock your head if you’re trying to skip to the lane too many times (Smooth and Horford). And like Oakley, Mourning and others proved, you don’t have to act crazy all the time, just let them know you can if needed. Interior defense is just as much about mental as it is physical.

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ILL-LOGICAL,

COngratulations, you now get to join RodSam and Clyde in the idiots’ corner.

“Joe is in a contract year and has to prove his all -star status to a lot of folks, especially after his last two season’s play off performances as well as last year’s o-fer in the All-Star game.”

I’m sorry, but did you really just suggest that an NBA GM gives a rat’s ass about someone performs in the AllStar game?

“Josh, Al and possible Teague have the skills and they all, unlike Joe make their teammates better!”

So many idiotic things. Josh makes his teammates better? And Joe doesn’t? Have you been watching ANY games?

And you’re ready to say that Teague makes his teammates better despite the fact that he hasn’t played a single NBA game yet?

And you’re ready to say all three are good enough to be the leading player on a title-contending team? Josh has been around the league 5 years. If he had the skills to be LeBron or Kobe, someone would have noticed by now besides you. Horford is more Oakley than Hakeem. Teague didn’t lead Wake Forest to jack $hit and hasn’t even played a preseason game in the NBA. If he was “lead a team to a title” material, don’t you think that he would have gone a little higher than 19th?

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truth-serum,

You said this: “As it was last year so it will be this year… with out a center the Hawks arent going to the finals.”

We actually have a Center. His name is Al Horford and here’s how he ranked last year in some stat categories for Centers:

Scoring: 19th – despite the fact that he shot the fewest attempts of any starter.

Rebound: 8th – better than Shaq, Pryzbilla, Perkins, and Lopez.

Blocks: 16th – better than Noah, Chandler, Nene – you know, “defensive stoppers”

Assists: 2nd – better than all but Brad Miller

Efficiency: 8th

Dbl-dbl: 9th

Steals: 9th

AST /TO: 5th

Gee, looks to me like he was in the top ten in most categories. And just 23 years old and in his second year.

Yes, we HAVE a Center. Even if he has a PF body.

I’m not saying we’re going to the Finals, but we indeed have a Center, even if you would rather have him at back-up PF.

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I don’t think luck has anything to do with it. Sund’s track record is waiting until August to finish at least 1 or 2 deals. Makes a lot of sense – when you’re filling out a roster, best to wait until August when the players’ price comes down.

It’s not luck if it happens year after year.

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i dont know why everybody is so happy joe smith only average 6.6 points a game he would be a bench warmer in any other elite team in the east, and the hawks beach is very shallow with no big men to speak of…..

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Trade Rand Mo for a second round pick 2010 if we can. Sign Siler give him his time to develop ( We gave Rand MO his shot last yea) , We should look for the best two pf coming out of training camp maybe Hunter and Green . Sorry when Mario wouldn’t shoot in the playoff games , I just thought he wasn’t worth keeping on the end of the bench.

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ha. nice to see ariose finally admit what we all knew about salim all along.

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Sautee,

Sund did exactly what he SHOULD have done this summer. We are only ecstatic because we are used to a less efficient way of doing things.

Finally, we have competence. Woo hoo.

Not to be snarky, but check out this page, which lists all of this year’s offseason transactions:
http://hoopshype.com/market_center.htm

…and tell me what GMs have done “exactly what they should have done” this summer. Because if that measure is tied to “making transactions that directly address the team’s weaknesses” or some other obvious measure of success, I’d say you’d be hard pressed to name 10 GMs in the league who are “competent” by that standard.

Looking at that page – which forces you to consider the subtractions with the additions – I’d say the Hawks have had one of the 3-4 best offseasons in the NBA. So if the measure is relative to other teams rather than a non-relative “addressing needs” measure, again I think you’ll be hard-pressed to name more than a handful of GMs more “competent” than Sund.

What qualifies as “excellent” if addressing needs and making smart additions without losing anything of value is merely “competent?”

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o_0 Stevo?? Where in Gds name have you been? Lurking?

Back during the 07-08 season we could’ve used Stoudamire in cretain situations….that sill hasn’t changed.

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At worst, I think Siler could be what Kendrick Perkins is for Boston. And I believe Siler is a little more inclined offensively. Perkins wasn’t jack before he got a chance to play with Garnett. Maybe eventually we’ll get a chance to see how he looks playing next to Horford or Smoove. Ya never know, anything can happen in this league!!

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For all you bargain hunters, Joe Smith is a 10+ yr vet. WIth that level of experience a minimum NBA contract is just over 1.3 mil.

@ATCQ-I’d imagine that a vet with a positive rep that is willing to take the minimum has choices. Smith may be the first unrestricted player of any noteworthy level to come here from another team in about 15 years. That’s part of why this is a significant step for the Hawks.

@niremetal, the caption to that pic should have referenced Biedrins Latvian drinking skills which kept the red out his eyes in that pic (compared to the others.)

@sekou, kudos to the AJC folks that put your twitter stream next to the blog. Makes lots of sense to keep the hardcore on the AJC page instead of the twitter page.

@JSS–I wish the AJC did have a blog for the other sports…especially in the summer. There is no comparison that there is more track, golf, gymnastics action this weekend than hoops. I love basketball, but reruns of old games are not my thing.

@Ariose–I guess we needed these games before free agency so Horford could have talked Charlie V into coming here for 40% of his value

Gotta run…need to setup the free showings of Logan’s Run for all these healthcare debates

BWAF

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Seems like a decent acquistion. Hope we can get him. If the Hawks stay healthy, they should be able to win 50 + games and become one of the top three in the East.

Mitch

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Anybody hear what Josh Smith has been up to this summer? We know if he is working on post moves, ball-handling, man defense, shooting?

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I sure hope the Joe Smith deal gets done. I’m as excited about the effect he can have on Josh and Al, as much as I am about having a quality vet to fill one of our weakest spots. I hope Josh really listens to him. I KNOW Horford will….

For those concerned with the “JJ hating”, don’t worry. The very first play in which Josh Smith makes a mistake, JJ will be off the hook. You can rest easy, it’s just break time for the Smoove, Woody, Sund, Sekou, AJC, Crawford, and whoever else haters….

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Smush,

I heard Marvin was working on his ball-handling. I don’t know about Smith. Besides, there’s no point in knowing what or where he’s been getting his offseason work in at or with. No matter what he does in the offseason, somebody is going to say they’d rather see him focus on something else…

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I’m not a fan of the NBA or the Hawks but I’m impressed with how they have handled their offseason needs.

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WE’VE GONE THIS FAR WHY NOT GO FOR BROKE!! (THE CHEAP WAY)

Mike Bibby/Jeff Teague/Crawford
Joe Johnson/Jamal Crawford/Mario West/Green
Marvin Williams/Maurice Evans/Gerald Green or Rodney Carney/Smith
Josh Smith/Joe Smith/ Stromile Swift
Al Horford/ Zaza Pachulia/ Randolph Morris/Garrett Siler

Most people forget Gerald Green came straight out of high school and it even took Kobe/Tracy awhile in the league before they blossomed. All you need is the right situation and with a team full of young veterans such as ours Gerald can blossom from peer pressure. At worst he is a good three point shooter and a great athlete that can play the two/three and backup Marvin if we want to play a tall point/forward line-up to elude the defense (Crawford/JJ/Green or Crawford/Green/Evans). We can always use another shooter/scorer. JJ can be a mentor once he gets of age or Green can be a cheaper insurance policy if JJ decides not to sign.

Rodney Carney can shoot threes and has a good defensive game. He could also blossom in the right situation and can play the 2/3 position as well.

Stromile Swift may be a one or 2 trick pony but if those tricks could be rebounding and defending that maybe the one or two tricks we need. He has the athletic ability to be pretty good at it and could spare minutes for Josh and Al. He would also be a good offensive/defensive compliment when he is on the court with Joe Smith/Zaza.

Garrett Siler as many acknowledge is at worst a functional big body. It’s hard not to atleast give him a try.

All in all chemistry is not necessarily an issue because our core is the bulk of the team and everyone is pretty much locked up with pretty good contracts. Green,Carney, and Swift are still pretty talented pieces and could be used as trade bait if they do not work out so we won’t have to worry about trading most of our core to get a missing piece(If needed) in return. Looking at Sund’s recent big trades(Gary Payton/Desmond Mason for Ray Allen in his prime and Acie Law/Craig Claxton for Jamal Crawford) he might be able to get some pretty good pieces for all this talent.

Of course we’d only be able(if at all) to get 2 of these three maybe Stromile and either Green/Carney but it would still be good added depth to our team(Shooter/Shot Blocker).Extreme competition in practice and hard work to get in or stay in the 12 man rotation and even that much more to be part of the 10 man rotation. I’m confident in Teague but if he doesn’t pan out early or(before I say this I’m not wishing injuries on none of our players) if one of our point guards get injured Crawford can move down and so on and so on. We would have movable pieces at every position to deal with the long season and Woody will at least look smart with his rotations because their is all most no way he can mess it up.

p.s. I know I said all this but to sum up the original topic the Joe Smith move is a pretty good move it gives us a 10 man rotation as of now it’s just hard not to be a fan and dream of more when you see we are so close(Give us an inch we’ll take a mile). Good job Billy for constructing the core of this team and great Sund for keeping this core intact and adding most of the correct pieces to go along with our core. Miss Ya Childress hope u come back (He would compliment a playoff team really well wouldn’t he and I loved the way he made my favorite player’s ill advised 3’s or air balls look like passes ).Thank you Flip for being the heart of this team at times. Miss you Solo hope everything goes well. No hard feelings Acie hope the deal turns out best for you and Jamal.

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SS,
Are the Hawks going to sign Flip Murray for 2009-10?

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The Hawks are making some nice moves given their lack of finances.It is a nice contrast to the Thrashers situation a couple of years ago when they made the playoffs but then these same owner yokels didnt do anything to improve the team..or even to keep it at the same level. The result is now the Thrashers are among the worst teams in the NHL and among the worst in attendance. That is not a coincidence.

So, Go Hawks!!!! BUT, Hey Spirit owners: You have a hockey team, too!!! .Do something soon or sell the team. Otherwise we may be looking at the Hamilton Thrashers or the Kansas City Thrashers ..

What is going to happen this year is that fans now will likely do as I will; pay to go see the Hawks but watch the Thrashers on TV until the owners get serious.

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WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO ADD A VETERAN FOR THE VETERAN MINIMUM? WE HAVE 6 MILLION UNTIL WE HIT THE LUXURY TAX. SIGN THE FREAKING GUY ALREADY

MY GOD

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Thanks for the answers Sekou – I still can’t pin you down on what you would pay JJ if it was your decision to make.

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dos, glad you are around, sensible stuff. seems i have less to say because i would just end up re-stating your comments. this will be a test year for woody of how he handles a team, now with expectation. though many have misinterpreted my comments on woody for being negative ones i have been fairly balanced in my acknowledgment of the growth of some players and how they never seemed to quit on him. his coaching from the sidelines and his quibbles with players have been mentioned as well.

woody has it on his shoulders now. as far as woody not being extended now, players usually play out their contracts then re-negotiate except for the creame de la creame. that philosophy holds for coaches as well. unless i am missing something woody has not become a top 5 coach yet to fall into that category.

those that make snide remarks about joe smith forget he made those numbers on the team with the best record in the league last year. he is a tremendous upgrade over solo. so what is the point, to continue to be negative? to think by stating it isnt a championship roster you have said something of value or import? guess what? there is only going to be one of those anyway so by saying it 32 times for 32 teams you can appear right as rain but sound dumb as nails to those simply observing.

still shake my head at anyone who is the least bit perturbed over this off season that is still not done. my boy rick has done a huge job getting across a philosophy of team culture. he stated it at the beginning and has followed through. i like that in a person who follows his talk with action that is consistent with the words. man anyone to complain of keeping the nucleus together that might still leave room for horford, pulled in crawford, smith and teague to replace flip, solo and acie has some loose screws.

dos i agree we could be in the mid 50’s now. i also think we might surprise one of the big three above us if they get lazy or have some injuries. the celts peaked last year unless kg comes back 100%, the magic have a new team, and the cavs did not really blow us out last year when even strength and we are better. not sure shaq does the same for them. we will see if he can do a bill russell and win one on his last legs. just the same, i dont think anyone behind us did anything for closing the gap to be ahead of us at the end of the season. we sure didnt throw up on ourselves the way the wiz did in the off season last year as the former number four. aint that right richie?

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“BIG” If they sign him and big Siler.

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Sekou Smith thinks,

Teague has a chance to be a steal on the level of Jameer Nelson, for where he was picked in the draft. He needs at least 14-18 minutes a night as a rookie, at least, and I expect him to get that. Crawford could play some minutes there, but if everyone stays healthy the Hawks won’t need him as much there.

At the risk of being labeled a Crawford hater lets crunch a couple of numbers. If Teague plays at the high end of Sekou’s estimation that leaves Bibby with 30 min. (last year he averaged 35).

Lets assume for the sake of argument that JJ min are cut to 35. That leaves 13. To get any more meaningful minutes for Crawford would take moving JJ to the 3 spot when Marvin needs a rest. That would give Crawford 13 more, a total of 36.

Can a Crawford/Bibby or a Crawford/Teague be effictive defensivly? Baring injury would we ever see Evans off the bench?

For the Flip fans why not let Flip fill 13 min for 2 mil and trade Evans and Crawford for an Evans upgrade. The upgrade could be done for much less 11.5 mil we would be trying to dump. (the 2.5 for Evans and the 9 mil for Crawford).

With Flip in the house playing 13 min,it seems to me the weak spot would be Evans.

It is not Crawford hating to at least suggest another direction. And Sund did a great job trading for Crawford. That was never the issue.

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Sekou joe smith is on every post pic. what up with that i guess he is the next coming of michael jordan.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The hawks are the best.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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I think it would be interesting to see how the blog thinks all the minutes will be dispersed. I will go first.

PG
Bibby 30
Teague 10
Crawford 8

SG
JJ 37
Crawford 11

SF
Marvin 35
Evans 13

PF
Josh 37
Joe Smith 11

C
Al 28
ZaZa 20

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Doug,
I don’t think Flip is incredible. I do think he is great value for 2 mil. Even if you don’t think we need an Evans upgrade we may need the money to resign JJ and Al.

I agree with you our second unit looks good. Give me your break down of how the minutes will be given out by Woody. If Teague plays much like Sekou suggests where does Crawford get his minutes. If Crawfords minutes are below 20 he just seems very expensive. If you agree he is very expensive why would you not entertain the idea of a different direction.

I understand my ideas are not always like others including yours. That does not make them ludicrous.

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I’m not going to post my minutes projections because I don’t think that’s a useful exercise (beyond it showing why there’s no room for Flip). My point is simply that the lineups are going to be much more fluid than any listed projection.

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sautee, are you saying then jonathan byrd was “decent” because he did his job. i thought he did a fantastic job but in the context of what you just said, he was supposed to do that; so, i guess i might reframe it to “decent”. now i can hear me going up to him after the show and saying “hey jonathan, i am a friend of sautee’s and i just want you to know you did a decent job there”. guess you didnt exactly do that ether, did you? or maybe even worse, “jonathan you three guys were competent tonight”. heh heh doubt i’d get invited back stage nor get an autograph. also i know your vocabulary can be stretched a whole lot further than that, the wordsmith you are.

kevin, who is this evans you are talking about? heh heh, man you talk about being lost in the fervor of the off season, mo might be a suit regular. and yes you are going to see jj very effective at the three position this year as that might have been his best position last year for the team based on nba 82 games summaries. that is what makes this thing so much fun looking forward; teague grows up quick and is the distributor, defender and penetrator we think he can be, crawford at 2, jj at 3, joe smith at 4, zaza at 5 not bad for filling some minutes by your subs. doubt much firepower lost there with four subs in the game. that might be a very effective offensive/defensive team especially against most teams second team players.

woody will have a lot of flexibility this year. let us hope he has a better way of using his flexible line up as sautee of using his flexible and vast vocabulary by describing “doing your job” remarkably well as decent or competent. yawn, mundane dude.

aj, i think we will win a few more against the elite three, closing the gap and kick some azzes of some of the down trodden teams allowing woody to rest starters. for example the lineup i gave is reasonable one with four subs in it solidified by jj at the three.

now what more can sund do to allow us to see astro back? you sure you didnt put on your favorite andro uniform as the off season began.

aj, btw as a braves aside, i am liking, finally, what i see in the bravos as they now have ballplayers and not soft gilded ones pretending to play. hanson not being here at the start of the season hurt. cox sticking with johnson too long hurt and not having enough ball players playing ball hurt like infante’s injury and frenchy’s head and an over matched center fielder.

i prefer ballplayers to stars any day, reggie was both, morgan and bench were both, sad to say few stars today are both, jeter is the ultimate one, giambi or alex the ultimate NOT.

finally, i think the worst trade in the last three years that led to a huge crumble effect was that of trading away adam laroach, another ball player. it was a colossal mistake as gonzalez was hurt and a vacuum was created in the daily order. i would have not done that deal as there was nothing to replace it with and they found out to only have to mortgage everything to texas to fix their own stupid mistake. he will not last longer than this season but if kept he would have kept them from leaking in too many other areas. it may be a case of too little too late, hanson alone might have made up four games in the standing by now. never could understand why the bolggosphere at ajc never liked the roach. now maybe they will get it as he leads the team back with some power not seen this year.

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Ken, Oralndo’s bench, their bench, could look like this… AJ, Reddick, Barnes, Bass and Gortat. And Rayn Anderson is another 6′10″ wing with unlimited range on his shot. They will likely be an even better defensive team if Peitrus can stay healthy and Vince Carter is a better defender than Hedo. I know that Rashard will miss the early part of the season but I honestly think that Anderson and Barnes can provide his ability to stretch the floor. And I don;t think that we can assume that Jameer and Pietrus will miss most of the regular season again. Unlike the other teams, Orlando has depth at every position that is either young or in their prime. I am more certain about the Magic than I am Boston. Boston was old, got a little older (replacing Powe with Rasheed) and who knows what’s really going on in the locker room with Rondo? But Orlando? I’m absolutely positiviely sold on that squad… players 1-11.

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Men’s 100 M semis
Heat 1 U. Bolt 9.89. D. Bailey 9.96 (TRI), D. Patrick (US) 9.98 (3 false starts in the race. He (Bolt) jogged
Heat 2. T Gay (US) 9.93, A. Powell (JA) 9.95, R. Thompson (BAH) 9.98… Gay had to work hard, horrible starts, it doesn’t look good for the final…

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doc,

LOL

But I’ll have to say there’s a definite difference in that Jonathan’s job is to “perform” and “write great songs”. He’s already done the writing part (par excellence) and the performing part can vary night to night. Certainly he was excellent at Evening Star, but, as he would attest, there HAVE been nights we played together that both of us would say “yeah, we were decent” but no more than that. Not that most would know, but WE know. And I suppose that’s where such a skewed descriptive would come from…..knowing that even on an off night we did our job professionally.

How about this: Rick Sund showed by this offseason that he is a vast improvement over the mediocrity to which we’ve become accustomed.

Better?

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9.58!!!

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Niremetal, I must disagree with you. Shaq is a lot better of a passer than Ilguaskas. Shaq is actually one of the 2 best passing centers in the league, if not the flat out best. Shaq has always been able to pass out of double and trip team coverage to set shooters up, or cutters.

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the thing is as a pro in the music world you know what it takes, in this profession you dont, so maybe it is best to err on the side of ignorance and build it up rather than the other way around. try it, you wont lose a leg and it will challenge your intellectual side to say decent in flowery terms. heh heh. glad you enjoyed the fun, i couldnt resist. ultimately it is all relative and really inconsequential to the big picture.

in the meantime, your attempt was, uh, pretty “decent”?

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We could also do a shooters’ lineup of Bibby-JJ/Craw/Marv (pick any 2 of 3)-Joe S.-Horford/Zaza (depending on whether you want more shooting/passing or more offensive rebounding). We could also do a “matchup nightmare” lineup of Crawford-JJ-Marvin-Josh-Horford. Then we really could switch on every screen.

The best thing is that Joe S. is the perfect complement to Josh because Joe S’s strengths (shooting, post defense) fill in the gaps for Josh’s weaknesses and vice versa (Joe S’s biggest weakness is helpside D).

But really, the lineup to watch for the future is Teague-JJ-Marvin-Josh-Al. You have that listed as a “defensive” lineup, but I see that as our most versatile lineup in terms of catering to our overall strengths. That lineup in transition would just be sick. The big question mark is simply whether Teague has the mentality of a floor general.

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Ramon,

Eh…I think Ilgauskas’s passing skills are persistently underrated. He doesn’t get a lot of assists, but that’s not a center’s job. Ilgauskas collects rebounds on both ends and makes perfect outlet passes and gets the ball back out to the perimeter without ever turning the ball over.

Shaq makes the occassional highlight reel pass out of the post, but he has been turnover-prone throughout his career. He usually goes straight back up off all offensive boards, even late in the game when managing the clock is more important. And I’ve seen him blow fast break opportunities plenty of times by making an ill-advised outlet pass.

Both are good. But for the type of offense that Cleveland runs, a “mistake-free” passer like Ilgauskas is more important than a “pass-on-instinct” guy like Shaq.

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Orlando got worse rather than better.

Vince is vastly overrated and a master choker in the clutch. He will not bail out D-12 from any jams when the game is on the line.

Also, he is a defensive liability. In spite of the missed basket in the finals, Courtney Lee was a keeper, on BOTH ends of the court.

Furthermore, the Turk was the guy which made the team click and although I like J-Nelson, I believe that the ball movement created by the offense being channelled through the Turk with Alston as a supporting (explosive/out of control) PG penetrating and launching bombs strangely worked well and will not be replicated with Nelson.

Nelson wants the ball and looked to be the no. 2 guy in the team. I think his absence was good for the Magic since the ball moved better without him: he has a tendency to try things he is not able to do.

Finally, Nelson is also a liability in defense, even more than Alston.

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“Trade Evans and Crawford for an Evans upgrade”: KevinA -name that player????. Some of yall are under estimating the effect Crawford will have next season.

darrell starks- STOP IT MAN!!! Championship? Championship??? R U Kiddn me????
Jim Mora sr is sumwhere smiling

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KevinA

August 16th, 2009
12:24 pm

KevinA

PG
Bibby 30
Teague 10

SG
JJ 37
Crawford 11

SF
Marvin 35
JJ 37
Evans 13

PF
Josh smith 37
Joe Smith 11
Al horford 28

C
No body

ZaZa 20 (no offensem, no finish in paint, extremely high turnover rate for center who doesnt handle the ball. 3 in vertical leap. Slow very slow.)

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Hoops

August 16th, 2009
5:04 pm

Hoops? ZAZA in a running lineup? What is this a special needs event?

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Interesting read about Crawford for those that don’t know about his struggles in the NBA. Let’s hope this is the year things turn around for him.

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Coach (Team) Votes: 1st place 2nd place 3rd place Points
Mike Brown (Cavaliers) 55 21 17 355
Rick Adelman (Rockets) 13 24 14 151
Stan Van Gundy (Magic) 13 20 25 150
Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers) 15 14 10 127
George Karl (Nuggets) 11 16 14 117
Jerry Sloan (Jazz) 9 9 6 78
Erik Spoelstra (Heat) 2 8 19 53
MIKE WOODSON!!!(Hawks) 1 3 3 17
Phil Jackson (Lakers) 1 3 3 17
Doc Rivers (Celtics) 1 2 4 15
Vinny Del Negro (Bulls) 1 1 1 9
Larry Brown (Bobcats) – 1 3 6
Scott Skiles (Bucks) – - 1 1
Tony DiLeo (Sixers) – - 1 1
Rick Carlisle (Mavericks) – - 1 1

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niremetal

August 16th, 2009
7:20 pm

That’s why the onus is on Woodson now. He no longer has any excuses if the Hawks fall apart in the playoffs again.?

He still has no center. You cant compete in the finals with out one. Is there any hater aid left in your cup?

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Truth-serum,

F*ck off and go back to your Klan rally, idiot.

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Stating the Obvious

August 16th, 2009
7:36 pm

Its nice to have a fan base…what time is does your klan rally begin? With the economy being slow I heard you guys were on the rise…BTW dont mask your name you are a Woody hater and part of the bubba crew…but of course Im Stating the Obvious. You can take your mask off now.

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Zaza is a good role player.

He has qualities and has faults: that is why he is on the bench.

He is an energy guy who has a good attitude and got a deserved contract to stay with us for a fair amount.

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truth-serum,

You said this about Zaza: “Im not calling 6.9 rebound In 24 minutes a good rebounder.”

And yet, a few weeks ago when we were arguing Centers on Bradley’s blog, you suggested Darryl Dawkins as an example of the kind of Center we needed.

Irony alert!

Dawkins career totals: 6.1 rebounds per game in 23.7 minutes.

(Zaza 6.9 in 23.6 minutes)

Oh, and Dawkins also made 2.6 turnovers per game.

(Zaza 1.3 TO /Gm – half of Dawkins TOs)

Sounds like Zaza may be better than you thought.

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orlando’s gotten better period look at there squad that should be end of story we have improved but we cant say oh we got 47 wins last year so were gonna get more than 50 this year cause were a better team cause we have to put into a count that the east got a lot better ecpecially the big 3 and toronto and washinton i still think we can be 4th or 5th in the east and make it to the second round doe….

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Truth-serum stats can be very deceiving. Sautee just gave one example, there are many others. Zaza’s not the best center, and Yahoo sports classifies him as a PF/C, just like Horford. But as stated many times in this blog, give me a realistic scenario in which we could have obtained a true Center this summer? Clyde makes that point every other day. I would have like to upgrade Zaza also, but Gortat or McDyess were not coming here so who else were you think? (by the way Yahoo Sports classifies them as PF/C too, what true center were you and Clyde thinking of??)

GO HAWKS!!!

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Kwooden1,

I disagree. Truth serum’s stats aren’t deceiving at all. The stats are simple facts. His use of them is deceiving however. As in, they deceive him into thinking he has an actual argument, or that he’s making sense….

I liked his analogy about the broken clock being right twice a day. I wonder what analogy he has for being wrong every single time you post?

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“Crawford started all 65 games he played, but was in the doghouse with Coach Don Nelson after he refused to play after being benched. Once it was clear that the Warriors were out of playoff contention, Nelson benched Crawford in order to play his younger players. Crawford took exception, and refused to play afterwards. Crawford averaged 19.7 points per game in his one and only season with the Warriors.”

Hmmm….Am I the only one botherd by this?…..just a little? A foreshadowing of events to come? As an example Flip Murray(Calm down now, lemme finish lol) has always been a model citizen in the bench, EVEN when he was getting snubbed by Flip suanders, AN EVEN FLIP MURRAY GOT INTO A LITTLE SPAT WITH HEAD COACH MIKE WOODSON.

What will Crawford do if he’s yanked by Woody for bad defense(or something else like poor decision-making)? Will things combust?

Honestly I think not, and Don Nelson is Looney anyway. Once Crawford was traded there, it was clar to everyone that he was their most potenet offesive weapon(on a scrub team…thats important to note) so It is still a mystery to even Warrior fans(I’ve checked their blogs) as to why Nelson treated Crawford that way.

BUT, Their little tiff still happend and Crawford STILL refused to come back into a game(much like Marshmello did in Denver) on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS. Not that i’m worried, because he’s NOT OUR best player BY FAR(Speaking from an offensive AND Defensive toatal package standpoint) and I doubt he can complain about coming out of a game in favor of ANY of our starters or rotation bench players.

But it happend, and it makes me pause…..then again, Al Harrington HATES DON NELSONS GUTS. So maybe I shouldn’t even entertain th incident at all. Besides, WE WIN, and i’m sure Crawford knows we can do it with or WITHOUT his services.

Just food for thought…..”Crawford started all 65 games he played, but was in the doghouse with Coach Don Nelson after he refused to play after being benched. Once it was clear that the Warriors were out of playoff contention, Nelson benched Crawford in order to play his younger players. Crawford took exception, and refused to play afterwards. Crawford averaged 19.7 points per game in his one and only season with the Warriors.”

Hmmm….Am I the only one botherd by this?…..just a little? A foreshadowing of events to come? As an example Flip Murray(Calm down now, lemme finish lol) has always been a model citizen in the bench, EVEN when he was getting snubbed by Flip suanders, AN EVEN FLIP MURRAY GOT INTO A LITTLE SPAT WITH HEAD COACH MIKE WOODSON.

What will Crawford do if he’s yanked by Woody for bad defense(or something else like poor decision-making)? Will things combust?

Honestly I think not, and Don Nelson is Looney anyway. Once Crawford was traded there, it was clar to everyone that he was their most potenet offesive weapon(on a scrub team…thats important to note) so It is still a mystery to even Warrior fans(I’ve checked their blogs) as to why Nelson treated Crawford that way.

BUT, Their little tiff still happend and Crawford STILL refused to come back into a game(much like Marshmello did in Denver) on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS. Not that i’m worried, because he’s NOT OUR best player BY FAR(Speaking from an offensive AND Defensive toatal package standpoint) and I doubt he can complain about coming out of a game in favor of ANY of our starters or rotation bench players.

But it happend, and it makes me pause…..then again, Al Harrington HATES DON NELSONS GUTS. So maybe I shouldn’t even entertain th incident at all. Besides, WE WIN, and i’m sure Crawford knows we can do it with or WITHOUT his services.

Just food for thought…..

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ariose put it on you tube for me.

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HICKS AND KLAN MEMBERS!!!!

….CHILL OUT

Kevin, it’s really not a big deal. Mo will play the same amount of minutes he played last season. JJ took some of his backup SF minutes last season as well.

Also, BIBBY will play less minutes. I think he will play 30(which is around his carrer avg. or have you all forgotten about how Bobby Jackson was arguably better than Bibby on any given night in his heyday).

That’s 18 minutes for Teauge. Which is Good, the less minutes Bibby plays, the less of a liability he is on the defensive end, besides, Adleman knew his defense wasn’t that great, that’s why Bobby Jackson played so much. Teauge contrary to media belief, is a good defender with a huge wingspan and off the charts athletic ability(I will say he will eventually be a better defender than Flip once he gets used to the NBA game)

With the Adition of Joe Smith, Smoove AND Horford will see a decrease in MPG this season. Horford won’t play the PF position as much(unless there is just a huge PF like Sheed or Garnett) and Smooves PF minutes will be cut down by Joe Smith. They should both go sown to about 30 MPG as well. Maybe 32MPG for Al because Zaza is clumbsy and can be a liability if left to his own vices at times.

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Doc, LMAO. I’ve been thinking of making a you tube video too lol. I should put on a darth Vader Helmet and Call out Mike Woodson! That would get a lot of views hehehe……I can see it now.

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Ray, I see your point. Woodson is not that kind of a manipulative coach, and though his players may hate his nagging at times, they respect him. I completely agree. Besides, it’s a little easeir to take consructive criticisim from a coach on a winning team that has players who are actually better than himself(crawford) on it.

Whoo! Mo Evans Sure dodged a big bullett by come to the ATL insteaed of San Francisco!!!

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And by the way Ray, Delk refused to go into several games. Only Woody never knew it!

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Ray,

I don’t have the link right now, but I remember when JJ was hurt a couple seasons back, Josh refused to enter a game when Woody drew up the potential game-winning play for Tyronn Lue instead of him. I think that was the day on which my irking towards Josh reached its zenith…

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Here we go:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2007/04/10/

Reading that story makes me realize how far the Hawks have come. First, Josh would never pull that kind of $hit today. No way. Woody draws up the last play for Marvin or Bibby or even Mo Evans, and I bet Josh goes out there and does his part.

Second, there was this line in Sekou’s blog:
In the what is perhaps the funniest line I’ve read in, um, forever, a noted New York Post columnist wrote this: – Last year, Smith’s belligerence got so out of hand, I’m told, Zaza Pachulia pinned him to the Hawks’ locker room wall after a game… The next time Zaza has someone pinned up against a wall or anything else, on or off the court, will be the first time

Heh. I would believe that story now. No one who has watched the Hawks the past two years would be shocked if Zaza pinned someone on the court, at least. Certainly if the guy wears #5 and wears a green uniform…

And then there’s this:
The fact is, part of the reason Smith acted out the way he did is because there is no culture of peer accountability that exists in the Hawks’ locker room. Not one of his teammates got in his face Sunday night, like I would have to not only to help squash an ugly situation but to help a teammate save himself from an embarrassing situation (and some serious cash money). One of my main gripes about this team from the first day I set foot in the locker room is that these guys (every incarnation they’ve had since I’ve been around), is that they don’t police each other enough. To me, that’s one of this team’s greatest flaws (and we all know they have plenty).

That’s perhaps the biggest difference. Today, Bibby, Horford, and perhaps even Marvin and JJ would talk Josh down if the same type of thing came up today. But of course, as I mentioned above, Josh would never pull shenanigans like that anymore.

PS – None of this was to say that a player justifiably refused to enter a game under Woodson. I wasn’t trying to argue against Ray’s point. It’s just an interesting glimpse back into the dark past that was the pre-2008 Hawks.

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Ariose, I know that I am late to the party, but allow me to weigh in on the Crawford-Nellie marriage. Crawford was on my fantasy team last season, that’s the only reason why I paid attention to the dysfunction happening on a losing left coast team (I’m a big hoops fan but my fandom only goes so far). In short, Nellie is an old idiot who has a whole lot of B–ch in him. And he punished Crawford needlessly and benched him in hopes that dude would opt-out of his contract early (you may recall that he owned an ETO this summer that he had to waive before the deal went thru). I’m shocked that Crawford didn’t file a grievance with the union, given some of Nellie’s blatant tactics. Anyway, while I would have liked Crawford to suck it up and play regardless of his lunatic coach, I understand his desire to give it right back to Nellie. My guess is that Crawford will enjoy playing for Woody.

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Ray,

You’re right, no article says that he refused to enter the game. The most that I’ve found is this:

Josh Smith’s profanity-laced outburst at the end of regulation of the Hawks’ 109-104 overtime loss to Philadelphia on Sunday night could result in the third-year forward being suspended, Hawks coach Mike Woodson said.

“I was upset with myself for taking that jumper instead of backing Andre Miller down. I knew I should have backed him down. So in my mind I wanted to make up for it on that last possession, but Coach called a different play.”

No link for that article…it’s in the AJC stacks, and you have to pay to get access to it. But it’s not clear exactly what words were exchanged, etc.

Come to think of it, a closer example of a player refusing to play might have been that tiff between Anthony Johnson and Woodson towards the beginning of the 07-08 season. Again, though, I don’t think any of those articles said outright that Johnson refused to play.

In any case, I don’t think anyone doubts that Woodson is a hard-nosed straight shooter who doesn’t mince words, in the mold of his two coaching mentors (Bobby Knight and Larry Brown). That has its good and bad qualities. But he and Josh have both grown up during their time with the team.

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Maaan Nothing beats good BBQ on a Sunday! All that was missing was a Football game.

Ray, Ha! You think thats a spectacle? I’ve got a friend from Macon, with One of the most Southern accents you’ll EVER run across(and this is GA so i’ve heard em’ all) he’s a Solid 5′10 295lbs(typical linebacker lol). I don’t know what poessed him to do this or where he found it, but he got his hands on the prettiest straw cowboy hat you ever did see(hehehe…). And EVERYWHERE he went he wore if for like a Month straight. He’s a realy flash guy likes to wear stuff that draws attention, but THAT took the title for sure. He was like a celebrity lol!!!

A big black guy with a straw cowboy hat and a southern accent thicker than you could imagine? I thought I was in the real-life version Green mile! Either that or I was looking at the Black version of Huckleberry Fin Hehehehe!!! NOW THATS HICK!!!

Thankfully, he eventually stopped wearing the hat and went back to his A-Town caps It would have REALLY been funny if he drove a pickup like yourself…..Does a Ford Taurus count? Hehehehe!

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“And you can’t be a hick, dammit. You know how to spell (and correctly use) the term pyrrhic victory. And used it on a sports blog. Sorry, man but that alone disqualifies you for hickdom.”

Yup…

Ray, LOL@ Syrup

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While it’s on my mind, after get Joe signed, finish up roster with Siler, Korolev or Gerald Green, and another big. That gives us 14 roster spots filled with extra money for later. After training camp or in middle of season if we need a jolt we can trade Mo Evans and Randmo for a player (salary 4 million combined). Would love to do that now, but after long off-season want team to get settled and not make things more complicated. Big things coming this season!!!

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Flip should be resigned. Flip Murray is just as good as Bibby and better than Teague. Also more team oriented than Crawford. Hawks can not progress without Flip’s clutch playing.

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Sekou- great news on Joe Smith. I heard a report that he HAS signed a one year deal for the vet min. Man, Sund has really done a great job this off season. He has been forward thinking and managed to make all of these moves at a significantly less cost than I thought was realistic. If he can finish this thing off by extending JJ, I would give this off-season a grade A, right now it is a solid B+.

I agree with Mystikal’s comments that I think this team is closer to the 3rd seed than the 5th.

I think we have had AS good an off-season as any other team in the EC. Honestly, besides the Lakers who has had a better off-season?
Yes, the Sheed signing is big for Boston(but I maintain that KG is not going to return to form), plus they did not address their back court issues.
Clevland- well, I will believe the Shaq expieriment when I see it.
Orlando- VC for HT, at best a push. Overspent on Gortat. Now, the Brandon Bass signing may be the best move of any team in the EC. So, I won’t argue that Orlando had a very good off-season.

Let’s Go Hawks!

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I do need to amend my Hawks off season grade. I need to dock 1/2 a point for the inability to work something out with Childress. Even if the move were for a future pick. So I go B+(with JJ extension), B(if not extended). Still remarkable for this franchise.

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wow, I thought there would be more talk going on today with the Joe Smith deal. where is everybody?

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made a mistake:

SG: JS = JC

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marconi tony- I don’t know anything about Peter John Ramos.

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vav74- I don’t agree that Flip is overrated. The guy doesn’t have a NBA contract and may be heading back to Europe. So who is overrating the guy? He may get lucky and play for the league min. this year. I am not questioning your opinion of Flip as a player, just I don’t think most people disagree with you. Certainly the people that matter, GM’s have a similar assessment.

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I think Flip is overrated by people around here and underrated by NBA GMs. I really do hope he lands in Philly. I think he’d be a great fit there…er, here.

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Doug

At least you can acknowledge the obvious that Flip was a good player. That’s more then I can say for this “vava74″ guy who doesn’t know jack about basketball. Don’t worry, Flip will play for a team in the NBA this year and when he does he will make a statement. What you failed to realized is backups are extremely important. Don’t believe me, asked the Lakers. Anyone of their backups can start for most teams. The Hawks have not reached that level to understand that yet, but they will. Especially when injury proned Crawford goes down and slow ass Bibby and the Rook are all you got left.

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We got ppl talking about Flip as if he’s MJ, Kobe, or LeBron. Signing Flip won’t help the Hawks get past Bos Clev, or Orl in the 2nd round. With or without him the hawks will have the same results as last year 2 rd playoff exit.

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Ariose,

Hmmmm, maybe I’ll try the straw hat thing. I’ve got the size (5′11″ 310 lbs), and while my southern accent won’t win me a role on the Gone With The Wind Redux, I am really good at imitating people and voices. Heh heh heh!

Guys …..

How can anybody call Flip Murray “overrated?” 12 points and a couple dimes a game for $2 million a year? Um….that’s what you call a “bargain”…..

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Of course, I can see Nire’s point. Some think we can’t make it along without Flip, and that’s definitely rating him too highly. And others mistake him for what he is. He’s a combo guard who has more SG skills than he does PG skills, and fits better as a backup SG. If you’re talking about needing a backup pg (and you’ve already got a backup SG), then Flip’s not the best choice….just given those criteria. He provides a team with offense by being the offense, not by initiating it.

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darrell- Flip is not being resigned because they traded for Jamal Crawford and drafted Jeff Teague! Why does that not make sense? You may feel that they still need Flip, but certainly the plan is pretty obvious.

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I’m not buying the mentoring story-line. First of all, just because you’ve been in the league for 10+ years, doesn’t mean that you have the desire 9nor skill) to be a mentor. Secondly, do we even know that the “mentees” want to have a mentor?

It sounds good and if it happens, that would be the honey atop the biscuit (wow, I used a food metaphor). But I think the biggest thing to consider is quality depth in the front court. Have we forgotten that the NBA has the worse officiating team in professional sports? Having Joe Smith available when Horford or Josh get 2 quick fouls is why I’m excited. Having someone who knows how to rotate properly on defense is big. A veteran who understands how to play the pick & roll is terrific. A guy who can knock down open jumpers, even with the game on the line is outstanding. And lastly, just having another guy (like Mo Evans and Flip) who knows how to be a professional is really nice. Joe Smith won’t need much more than a uniform, sneakers and consistent minutes to be effective. I’m predicting a minimum of 15 minutes a game from him.

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You always want the best players on your team,no is asking flip 2 take over teague spot but if teague is as good as everyone says then flip will make him a better player letting him no to step your game up in practice our i will take your spot.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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Daniel,

Exactly! ECF of NBA championsgip is an imporvement to me. We have a deeper bench our core is a year older & should be better at winning games. Our leader JJ is 5 years older than when we traded for him. This franchise is doing the same thing with JJ it did with Dominique. We are not putting enough talent around him in his prime to get to the next level ECF ot NBA title!

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darrell- not bad on the lineup, but we don’t have any real small forward depth. How about reserves being Korolev, Siler and Flip(or another 3rd string pg T. Lue)?

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Why does everyone around here just settle for being middle of the pack in the Eastern Conference? It’s the problem with part of the culture in Atlanta. We’re not going to win a championship with the team we have now so why not start dealing away our overpaid players? This would start by saying goodbye to Joe Johnson. Good player, but not great. I grew up in Central Florida and watched the Magic’s growing pains. We got lucky and drafted Howard which is the beginning of something great. There’s hope there. What’s our hope here?

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This was an article published today in a Cleveland Newspaper

“So when you read reports that [Joe] Smith turned down a similar offer from the Cavs to join the Hawks, you have to wonder if this guy enjoys losing. Maybe no team in the NBA will have a brighter spotlight on them this upcoming season than the Cavaliers, considering the arrival of Shaq, LeBron’s contract year, and a host of other factors that make it the equivalent of a championship-of-bust season. Instead, Smith will join the Hawks, a team that he himself saw firsthand is extremely inferior to the Cavs. And if reports are true that Smith was bothered by the fact that the Cavs signed Leon Powe based on what it would do to his long-term playing time, give me break. Powe may not be back until April, so Smith will probably have an entire regular season ‘to himself.’ But it’s obvious that winning a championship isn’t higher than being a career journeyman and #1 overall bust on Smith’s list of priorities.”

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Daniel,

With the excellent basketball knowledge you have displayed on these blogs. I never expected you to use an over exaggerated stat like “1st time winning a 7 game series. Bottom line the Atlanta Hawks have never gotten past the 2nd round!

My frustartion with Hawks is this…we are in a prime position to get JJ a complimentary all star to get this team to the next level. The Celtics had awesome core with Al Jerfferson, Kendrick Perkins PP, and Rondo, but they knew a champioship would elude them if they kept that group together. I want to see the hawks take similar steps.

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Franco i dont no why every one settle for less freaking joe smith give me a break come on sekou we can do better than this can we?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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To say the ASG group is not trying to surround JJ with good players within their resources is laughable. And to assume there are All Star players out there just waiting for Hawks to trade for them is also a joke. Obviously, some folks never even read Sekou’s article on this blog before dropping comments that makes them seem like Johnny come lately Hawks fans.

WE, the true, long suffering Hawks fans know the real story. And that story is this is the best team the Hawks have fielded for years. We know what Woody had to work with when he had people like Lorenzo Wright, AJ, T-Lue, Shelden and Speedy. No one expects the Hawks to win a championship next year. All we want is for the team and coach to get progressively better, win more games every year and push farther and deeper into the playoffs. Woody finally has something to work with. Can we see how the Hawks perform this year before talking about trading Joe Johnson?

For teams like Boston, LA, Cleveland and Orlando, teams that have made some heavy investments on their ball club resulting in them paying the luxury tax, for those teams it is championship or bust. Anything short of a ring for those 4 teams translates into a losing season. Hawks are not in that situation. Hawks still taking baby steps. Some teams like Boston can load up in one year and win a ring, but for other teams, like Hawks, they have to build up their team step by step, in a progessive manner.

So patience, fans. Hawks have sucked so much for so long that it’s nice to finally see them going somewhere. I don’t know about you all, but I’m looking forward to the 09-10 season more than I have ever done in the past. Hawks are gonna be even more fun to watch next season. Imagine, Hawks are getting more national tv coverage next season that they’ve had the last ten years combined! That should tell you something.

Go Hawks!

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Finish out the roster with Ty Lue, Lo Wright and Mario West! And onward to the NBA Finals.

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Daniel,

Dude…reading way too much into that. It’s just common sense: Minutes for Flip would mean fewer minutes for Teague. That would be true under pretty much any coach and GM. Nothing to do with Woodson and Sund in particular. Just the reality of having a veteran and a rookie who play similar roles on the roster at the same time.

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Yahoo: I am a Flip “hater” because he went to a black college?? Amazing. But typical…impugn someone’s motives when you don’t have a clue. Like I said write me when Flip signs with one of the 30 NBA teams for more than mid level on down. And the construction of your base argument is incoherent…but I’ll try…depth and redundant are NOT SYNONYMS…redundant means “exceeding that which is necessary”…depth refers to, in NBA parlance, having multiple quality players that that contribute to a successful team.i.e. redundant depth therefore means having MORE THAN necessary of a specific type of said player. Also…this is not last year…and AT THIS POINT of the Hawks roster construction, team profile and cap management…signing Flip would be redundant and stupid

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Daniel, so are you suggesting that if the Hawks don’t have 5 guards with an expectation of playing no less than 15 minutes per game, that it is a sign of dysfunction between the GM and coach? If the Hawks want Teague to develop into a complete player, they can’t ask him to only be a pass-first guy while Flip serves as the designated scorer. Likewise, they shouldn’t bring in someone like Jason Williams and ask Teague to be Lou Williams (heaven-forbid) while Williams is the pass-first PG. I appreciate what the Spurs have done with George Hill, but honestly, is he being developed to be a consummate guard or just a Flip Murray? I think that Sund and Woody have bigger plans for Teague and bringing in another dog to feed off the same bowl of scraps makes very little sense. Teague has 2-3 seasons before he gets the keys to the car, they can’t block his path to the classroom with a minimum-waged Flip Murray.

The guys at the end of the bench either need to be projects to be developed for future contirbutions (e.g. Siler) or vets who sit on the bench with a younger player and teach (e.g. Brevin Knight talking to Teague about how to manage a game or how to play at different speeds).

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And PS – people often forget the player’s perspective in all this. If we are planning to give both Teague and Crawford a decent number of numbers, that means that Flip will be wasting away on the bench for most of the year unless someone gets hurt. That’s not exactly a role Flip will be rearing to take on after he just had a career year. As I said, it makes no sense for either side for Flip to return here at this stage unless one of our guards tears their ACL tomorrow.

And Sekou – sorry to dig up old stories. You have to admit though, it’s interesting to read that 2 years later.

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don’t get quoted…

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Daniel,

So I am just saying if you read that quote on ESPN it would make you say hmmmm?

Um…no. It wouldn’t. At all. As I said, what Sekou said is common sense. If Flip were here, he’d need minutes (or else he’d never sign here to begin with). Minutes for Flip means fewer minutes for Teague. Why would something as obvious and simple as that make anyone not looking for a conspiracy theory say hmmmm?

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Doug

You know what, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you can’t read is because you are so full of emotions you can’t think clearly. This statement of yours: “depth and redundant are NOT SYNONYM” YOU HAVE CLEARLY MISSED THE POINT!!! Go back and read my last comment: I am not comparing the words Depth and Redundant, I am comparing the words Backup and Redundant which the same.

HELLO, IS ANYBODY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sekou, so is the paper being renamed to the Sandy Springs Journal & Constitution? Man, I hope that the rumor that the AJC offices are moving to the ‘burbs is false. Just something fundamentally ill about that idea.

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RaD,
Cavs are PAPER CHAMPS! Don’t believe the HYPE! I guess we all need to get together and buy you a case of new RAW HIDE Gloves so you won’t burn your hands while you’re SWINGING on LeBron & Shaq NUTS. I heard they still have hundreds of Balloons in the rafters in the Gund Arena, thinking it was going to be a Big party. AKA. Orlando Magic (upset). Oh yeah, I heard they signed 3 extra photographers to travel with the team for photo opportunity on the BENCH. HDI! Hurt Don’t It!!!!!!!!

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PS, Here’s that media market list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

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Hey Sekou,

So hopefully Joe Smith puts his name on the line sometime this week. Other than that what are the hawks next moves? Still in talks of JJ’s extension and deciding who to finish out the roster with I presume?
Think they may go into training camp with those final two spots up in the air til they see what all they’re working with?

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Last thing:
Even if you include all the Finals runners-up in the past 30 years, the list only includes 4 teams that weren’t either 1) from one of those 11 media markets I listed above; or 2) the only major pro sports team in town – the ‘93 Suns, the ‘96 Sonics, the ‘00 Pacers, and the ‘07 Cavs.

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Thanks for clearing that up, Sekou. You know it is August and we are desperate for stories. Also, I heard a report that the deal was done and it was a one year, vet min. Is that not true?

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niremental- the 2cd part of that statement is not true. What about the Diamondbacks/ Cardinals, Marieners/Seahawks/(University of Washington)/ Colts/Indians and Browns. I think all of those count as major sports teams.

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Nire,

Good looking with the media markets list. I already had figured on my own all championships won since 79′ were amongst same 8/9 teams. I didn’t realize they were all top 10 media markets (sans San Antonio). Wow, that let’s you know really how much money is tied into success. How does Mark Cuban sleep at night?…lol

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Daniel, he(Sekou) said that no contract has been signed yet. At least a “written”, “legal” contract signing has not been announced yet.

Remember Rafael Furcal this past baseball off season, or even most recently Turkoglu?

It’s not legal and binding until the paper is signed. Until then, it’s all hearsay.

That’s what he said. That’s what the situation is.

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I’ll put it another way. Examples of teams that fit the “no other major pro sports teams in town” label are the Spurs (4 Finals wins in the past 30 seasons), Jazz (2 Finals appearances), Magic (2 Finals appearances), and Blazers (2 Finals appearances). All other teams that have made the Finals during the past 30 seasons – except for the ‘93 Suns, ‘96 Sonics, ‘00 Pacers, and ‘07 Cavs – come from one of the 11 largest media markets, which I listed above.

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btw- Detroit is really in the top eleven and Atlanta is 28th? I would not have thought that.

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Anakin- how many games did Rashard get suspended?

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BBgenie & Mystical,

With the way things are playing out. How long before our Hawks are champioship contenders?

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Astro Joe,

In my opinion, everything you listed in your 11:18 post is exactly why Joe Smith will have a positive effect on our frontcourt players. Perhaps “mentor” is a word that you find disagreeable, but considering the fact that we don’t and haven’t had an effective big man coach, or a quality veteran big man, I’m not going to sniff with disdain at the “mentor” effect.

It doesn’t have to be an official (or even unofficial) “mentor” and “mentoree” relationship. I agree that having quality depth is the first and foremost target. But when you get that, you also get the side effects. Like you said: hitting the jumper, rotating properly on defense, running the pick and roll properly, and being a professional. Surely our young bigs can learn something from all of that.

Again, that’s not the main idea or storyline. Again, with the lack of a big man coach, I’m happy about the idea of having a guy who can set the example (in both practice, and in games) in the areas that our bigs need the most work.

“The guys at the end of the bench either need to be projects to be developed for future contirbutions (e.g. Siler) or vets who sit on the bench with a younger player and teach (e.g. Brevin Knight talking to Teague about how to manage a game or how to play at different speeds).”

Agreed. And while Smith wouldn’t exactly be at the end of the bench, he can have similar effects on Josh, Al, et all…

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http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2009/04/17/your-warriors-grades/#comments

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AJ,

I’d pencil Pietrus in at the starting SF. Barnes is a shooter, and not much else. Besides, how many shots would Barnes get in THAT starting lineup? Pietrus may not get a whole slew of them, but if he’s the starter, you now have perimeter defender to compliment the dominating low post defender in Howard. Can’t count on the other three starters (Lewis, Nelson, Carter) for anything more than “adequate” defense, and even that’s going to be a debatable description thereof.

Hell, I don’t even know if we’ll finish within 8 games of those guys. But then, it all does sound good on paper. I’d rather not get beat by 50 again, I can tell ya that…

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Ray and I also agree that Pietrus will likely start. I only said that because there was an article that indicated Barnes would have a chance to compete for the starting position. But Pietrus’ playoff performance (especially in the Cavs series) should give him the clear advantage.

The other thing about Orlando is that they will likely shoot for the #1 spot in the conference. teams like Boston and Cleveland will not over-use their older stars to secure the top spot. Those teams believe that they can win in any tough road game. And while Orlando proved that they can also win in road playoff games, I think they will want to push for the top spot. I just don;t see them letting off the pedal next season. And Vince will surely play nice… every “old big dog” is learning from Iverson how NOT to play out a contract year on a new team.

Man, if someone had bet me back in February/March which Virginia native would have a contract first this summer between AI and Vick, I would have bet a mortgage payment on AI. And that’s why I generally don’t make bets.

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AJ,

No doubt. Those guys are going to be full steam ahead. And I think you’re right about Vince, as well. I understand where people are coming from about him being a me-first player, but he sure didn’t exhibit any problems while playing with Devin Harris last year (a guy who is clearly a shoot-first pg, and a good one at that), and reports out of Jersey were that he was a much better guy in the locker room than they were expecting at the time. Plus, as you say, The Answer seems to be trying to compete with Starbury for Crazy Ex-star Guard of the year. Well, okay, he’s not looney like Starbury is, but he’s definitely not endearing himself to anybody either.

As for Vick and A.I., all I can say is I never thought about that. Good thing you didn’t make that bet…

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Melvin, once Rashard is off that juice, he may shrink up to a 6′3″ combo guard.

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AJ,

It was prescription meds…lol

Speaking of juice, have the test result came in for Usian Bolt yet???

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*Oh well, I think Sam/Rod alarms just went off.

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AJ,

Just think, it takes me 10 seconds to walk from my bedroom to my kitchen which is more time than it take Bolt to run a 100m. Oh yeah, I don’t have a mansion either…lol

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Accurate media market:

US DMA Rankings
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 09:17 The Great Outdoor Network Inc.
DMA – Designated Market Area defined by Nielsen Research.

2006-07 2007-08 2007 2008
Rank Rank Difference DMA Name Homes Homes

1 1 New York 7,366,950 7,391,940
2 2 Los Angeles 5,611,110 5,647,440
3 3 Chicago 3,455,020 3,469,110
4 4 Philadelphia 2,941,450 2,939,950
6 5 +1 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,378,660 2,435,600
5 6 -1 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,383,570 2,419,440
7 7 Boston (Manchester) 2,372,030 2,393,960
9 8 +1 Atlanta 2,205,510 2,310,490
8 9 -1 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,272,120 2,308,290
10 10 Houston 1,982,120 2,050,550

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ramon you got to be kidding me orlando softer than us… please they got toughness in bass, gortat, pietrus and howard i can only see us having al,josh and zaza thats it they got a better overall team than us and will finish 10-12 games ahead of us, and i dont think we have a great bench like they do they have gortat,bass, anderson,barnes,jj, and a.j so i dont know where yourcoming from i think your basing your statements cause your a hawks fan and you cant do…..

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http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/08/17/offseason.rankings/index.html
power rankings from nba.com

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i agree with him i think the hawks will get about 45-50 wins this year but we are not going to be close to the big boys of the nba (lakers,celtics,magic,cavs,spurs) but will be in the hornets,raptors,mavs,nuggets,wizards level

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ramon okay is this teague your talking about a player that is unproven and has not even played in the nba and joe smith the same you smith that averaged 6.6 points last season and zaza averaged 6 points and 6 rebounds in 19 minutes of play gortat would have averaged around 7.5 points and 7 rebounds better than zaza and marvin and lewis averaged almost the same about of rebounds and we need a better bench we have no bench so u think are bench smth,morris,teauge and evans is a better bench than orlando’s bench that stupid…. the fact of the matter is that i love the hawks but no way can we place the with orlando or another top with the east big 3….

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plus orlando’s bench does not need to score that much, there starting 5 will do that look at the benches
gortat anderson pietrus barnes a.j
zaza s mith evans crawford teague
orlando wins center, power foward and small foward we win sg and point guard they got a better back ups

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Actually John S. is with NBA.com. But they are all the same.

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Anakin,

I agree with that point of course. I wouldn’t have picked Utah as a counter-example since they are one of those “only show in town” teams. The Suns and Pacers are two examples of “smaller-and-crowded market” teams that have enjoyed sustained success despite their market disadvantages, thanks to shrewd front office moves (Colangelo and Walsh are revered for a reason) and coaching. I will say, though, that it doesn’t hurt that Phoenix and Indianapolis are big basketball towns to begin with thanks to their close proximity to universities that have been longtime powerhouses in basketball but not football. That can’t be said of Atlanta – here, the big college sport has always been football and the big high school sports have always been baseball and football. And I don’t think anyone will argue that pro basketball is low on the hierarchy of spectator sports throughout the southeast. It’s not for nothing that the shortest Braves threads from the past year are longer than all but the longest Hawks threads, despite the fact that the Hawks have a better record (and a much better beat writer ).

In any case, I certainly will grant that teams at a greater market disadvantage than the Hawks have managed to have greater success. A smart GM can build a contender even if the basketball revenues are below average. But my main and final point is this – because of Atlanta’s market size, “crowded” sports market, and the relatively low position of basketball on the sports hierarchy in this region as compared to other parts of the country, there’s no guarantee that “if you build it, they will come” is a viable strategy for pro basketball in Atlanta.

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Yeah, not surprised on the ASG court ruling. I’ll just say this – Steve Belkin does not make a good witness, and the ASG’s strategy at trial had the not-unintended effect of painting Belkin as a calculating and vindictive person who wanted George Steinbrenner power without owning a George Steinbrenner stake.

Sekou mentioned a couple of the incidents in his write-up, but the one that stood out the most for me was the one where Belkin contacted the NBA to say that Levenson might be tampering. The ASG’s attorney had Belkin twisting in the wind on that one.

Ah well. As with most lawsuits, the only winners in this thing are the attorneys. They’ve made a killing on fees, and probably will make a few million more before all is said and done.

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Hawkspride, this is just one of many situations where we agree to disagree. And just wait to see how the season unfolds. It was great debating with you.

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I just read the rankings on NBA.com, and 2 things stood out to me.
1) They have Washington ahead of the Hawks
2) That the Hawks lack leadership

Seriously, does he really expect Agent 0 to be healthy all year? Plus their lack of frontline depth (when compared to ours)…I just done get it. And with all those new players and a new coach, I can’t see them finishing ahead of the Hawks.

And I dont think the Hawks lack leadership anymore. I think he is saying that only because we expect JJ to be our leader, but he isn’t. But I think Bibby does a good job of coaching on the floor. And in time, Al might take over that role.

I think Hawks finish 4th in the East, win 50 games, and will not get swept in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

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i think its gonna be a toss up between us, toronto and washinton but i think we play more defense than them so we have the edge

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Also, the Hawks lack leadership and cohesion but the Wizards don’t? Uh, ok. Wow.

Here’s the link:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/08/17/offseason.rankings/index.html

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I don’t understand how the legal battle will be over. Belkin will never stay as an owner on this team, nor would he want to be, so if he didn’t win the appeal, I’m sure he could pursue some other legal form of action?

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Sekou

What is Siler doing these days? I thought I heard he was coming to camp early to get a head start. Is Woody still planning to hold work-outs on the prospects he mentioned last week? Surely Sund needs a vacation from the OT work he is putting in these days. Do you think JJ extension deal will get done before Sund takes his vacation break? Inquiry minds want to know.

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19-63> 47-35 …. o ok… so i guess 1 player makes the difference…? pfff… kidding… honestly i thought the Wizards played much better (team) basketball without Arenas…

in my opinion they added “poor man’s” clones of what they already have on salary. yet the Hawks can upgrade and compliment, but our issue is “leadership” give me a break…

MEDIA… find a credible flaw in this Hawk team cause that ain’t cutting it… better yet keep your jinx’s, we’ve managed without due coverage and acclaim thus far. Hawks fans damn the critics you gotta like this years squad…

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The Wizards chemistry is going to be really messed up. Gilbert Arenas is going to take 40+ shots/gm to prove he is fully healed. Then after he’s proven his point he’ll only take 35+ shots.. lol
They have no frontline whatsoever. I would really be insulted that he put them above us if I gave 2 rats $hits about his opinion. Who is this guy again?

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Sekou,

Did Jason Collins ever come in to workout last week for the Hawks?

Thanks.

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As everyone probably knows by now, I’m not a Woodson fan, but he is our HC. So, I did a little research and found something very interesting. We’ve seen him cling an 8 man rotation, but he only went to an 8 man rotation after we traded away several veteran players to get Bibby. Adding vets Joe Smith and JCrawford to holdover vets Zaza and Evans migt be the key to getting him to expand his rotation.

This is a contract yr, and I think Woodson knows he can’t continue refusing to commit time and effort into developing a replacement for Bibby. It’s obvious Teagie is our PG of the future, and I’m encouraged by the fact he was Woodson’s selection. I think we’ll get a better job of coaching out of him this yr. He knows this time he can’t rely on having a winning season and making the playoffs to hold on to his job. Been there done that. With what Sund has presented him with, there has to be marked improvement over last yr, and for that to happen, Woodson has to demonstrate marked improvement as a HC. I’M ACTUALLY OPTIMISTIC.

DOS HAWKQUIS-hindsight is 20/20. Former GM BKnight was looking to make a franchise changing statement with this trade, he wasn’t playing poker. Getting a player of Joe’s calibur was key to taking the team and the franchise to the next level. It simply wasn’t the time or the situation for calling bluffs, because too much was at stake. Maybe we could have gotten JJ without giving up 2 1st rd picks, but why take the chance? That pick wasn’t going to make or break this franchise, so why continue to make it an issue. It certainly didn’t help the Suns make the playoffs last yr, and neither did Shaq.

Speaking of Shaq. Orlando defeated Cleveland in the playoffs by consistently exploiting Ilgoukas’ inability to defend the pick and roll. Well, Shaq might be the only starting NBA center that’s even worse than Ilgoukas at defending the pick and roll. Signing JSmith will give us our 1st jumpshooting Big, with range, since AHarrington. Having JJ @ SF, Marvin @ PF, Joe Smith @ C, Crawford @ SG and Bibby or Teague @ PG in the gm at crunch time will definitely keep teams from doubling JJ.

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Aroise,

Crawford is going to make Flip a distant memory. Just give him a chance. Don’t be like some others that cast the man off before they this his uniform measurements. You are better than that man….

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Looking at some youtube video on Jason Collins, he really sucks on the free throw line. I can’t see him in a Hawks Jersey. I think I’ll pass

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Truth, after watching that, I feel sick lol…

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Hoopshype.com story on the big center in Puerto Rico the hawks were looking at. If someone can translate this article please do. I don’t know how.

Houston le pone el ojo a Peter John Ramos
lunes, 17 de agosto de 2009
Raúl Álzaga / Primera Hora

Puerto Rico no contará con su centro Peter John Ramos para su partido inaugural de la Copa Tuto Marchand mañana, martes, ante la Selección de Canadá. Pero no hay mal que por bien no venga.

La ausencia de Ramos se debe a que el destacado pívot viajó ayer a Houston para participar de dos días de entrenamiento privado con el equipo de los Rockets, con miras a regresar a la NBA.

“Peter ya está en Houston con (Félix) ‘Felo’ Rivera para entrenar por dos días con los Rockets y estará de vuelta a Puerto Rico el miércoles. Sólo se perderá un juego de la Copa Tuto Marchand. Realmente, los Rockets querían tenerlo allá por toda una semana, pero debido a los compromisos de Ramos con el Equipo Nacional, sólo se quedará por dos días”, sostuvo uno de sus agentes, Todd Washington.

“Houston era uno de los equipos más interesados en verlo este verano y ahora Peter tendrá su oportunidad de impresionarlos. Con Yao Ming fuera por toda la temporada debido a lesión, Peter puede ayudar a llenar esa vacante en la posición de centro ya que cuenta con estatura y destrezas ofensivas similares a las de Yao”.
Houston, que también perdió los servicios del retirado veterano Dikembe Mutombo, sólo tiene a un pívot en nómina tras firmar recientemente al australiano David Andersen, que viene de ayudar al Regal Barcelona a ganar el título de la liga ACB de España.
Sin embargo, los Rockets no son el único equipo interesado en Ramos.
“Los Hawks de Atlanta también vienen a ver a Ramos en Puerto Rico durante el Torneo de las Américas y es posible que otras franquicias también vengan a observarlo”, agregó Washington.

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Joes Place:

Puerto Rico will not have its center Peter John Ramos for their opening match of the Copa Tuto Marchand tomorrow, Tuesday, before the selection of Canada. But there is no evil that blows nobody any good.

The absence of Ramos is that the prominent pivot yesterday traveled to Houston to attend two days of private training with the team at the Rockets, with a view to returning to the NBA.

“Peter is now in Houston with (Felix)” Felo “Rivera to train for two days with the Rockets and will be back to Puerto Rico on Wednesday. Only lost one game in the Tuto Marchand Cup. Actually, the Rockets wanted to have it back in a week, but due to the Palm with the national team, will stay only for two days, “said one of its agents, Todd Washington.

“Houston was one of the teams most interested in now and see it this summer Peter will have his chance to impress. With Yao Ming out for the entire season due to injury, Peter can help fill that vacancy in the center position because he has stature and skills similar to those of offensive Yao. ”
Houston, who also lost the services of retired veteran Dikembe Mutombo, has only a pivot on the payroll after signing recently to Australian David Andersen, who comes to help the Regal Barcelona to win the title of the ACB league in Spain.
However, the Rockets are not the only team interested in Ramos.
“The Atlanta Hawks also come to see Ramos in Puerto Rico during the Tournament of the Americas and other franchises may also come to watch,” added Washington.

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wow wizardz fans are coocky but i think atlanta has a better squad but you cant really blame them for having high hopes you guys do that all the time im a magic fan and sometimes when i hear you guys talking about winning the division and being 3rd in the easy i feel the same way cause i really do not think you guys are that great no offense, the think is that i believe there is three great teams in the east orlando,boston and cleveland then there is a couple of good teams atlanta and??? well there is one good team in the east after that the other teams are average….

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dos, we agree on so many things, only listen to what ken says; we didnt need to play poker with jj. they were going to match, not in my mind but documented by the guys in the know and many times over in the press so it is not my speculation. as far as the loss of picks, we didnt give up the last pick until last year with lopez going to phoenix. did we lose that much? though i admit it took luck, we finally got lucky and kept the pick when the balls fell right into our hands to deliver horford. the picks dont mean anything when you get three years of quality service. dude you sound like a novice when you talk about the promise of picks as being that important. dos, a man living on the edge, thirsty, doesnt look back at the fodder of what might have been when it has worked out pretty good so far. a thirsty man is always looking for adventure not worrying about the past and probably why the hawks are your team.

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Allen Iverson off Miami Heat’s radar?

“AllenThe addition of Quentin Richardson(notes) to the Miami Heat last week apparently has dimmed the prospects significantly of Allen Iverson(notes) joining the club, according to the Miami Herald.

Not only is there not enough cash to go around to everybody, there probably aren’t enough shots to be distributed either that would have everyone feeling happy.

Dwyane Wade(notes) is apparently feeling really great about the addition. He and Richardson are pals and enjoy playing together.

So while Iverson is out, the team still may add Flip Murray(notes) or Jamaal Tinsley(notes) for the veteran’s minimum salary.

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While I am not defending Law, he got hurt early in his rookie year when he took that bad fall in Charlotte I believe thus he did not really play a full season as a rookie. Then Bibby comes in and he got no run as we were making the playoff push. I think its impossible to compare him to Ivey and Salim cause of those circustances. Whether Law could play or not Woody still did an awful job developing him and giving the kid confidence. I have never seen a guy more then Law who is looking over his shoulder after every play on the floor…he played scared because he knew one little mistake or missed shot and Woody was pulling him.

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What about Flip? Are they working on anything for him? I know he would bring excitement and challenges for everyone.

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I read that same thing yesterday (J.J.M.). I thought that is was crazy then and I think that power rankings is crazy now. I think that the Hawks will shock a lot of people this year if we stay healthy, we won 47 games with injuries last year. I went on the Wizards blog, and they think that they’re going to go from 19 wins to 50 wins this year. I don’t think that they’ll jump us this year. I believe that Teague and Crawford is going to be a force off the bench. Let’s Got Hawks……

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The Truth, I agree. I was just reading this morning that the Warriors reportedly turned down a late 1st round pick for CJ Watson. That suggests to me that they believe that Watson is a valuable back-up PG (presumably to Stephen Curry) and don’t think that Acie could be in their rotation. He will likely be a UFA next summer and have a chance to show and prove with a 1-2 year contract before leaving the NBA. If I look next door from Philips Arena, I’m reminded how Roddy White looked like a straight bum during his first 2 (or was it 3) seasons in the league. He admitted that he was mostly about “living the life” and eating McDonalds. I truly hope that Acie can do to his career what White has done for his. But it starts with personal accountability. Guys like Mario West and Anthony Morrow didn’t wait for the door to open before they got ready. They got ready first and then started knocking and kicking at the door. They may not stay in the league long but they have each already done more than some lottery picks.

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AJ, I wished good things for Acie as well. I think we were all for the most part wearing rose colored glasses. The guy just didn’t play with any fire. He was never really agreesive outside of that dallsa game in his rookieseason. After that, he reverted back to his old underachieveing self. Based on the stas Salim had the best rookie season, but his defense was bad, But he was always agressive offensively, I respected that about him. Ivey is just a glorified Acie Law IMO, I honestly dont uderstand how he’s still in the NBA today. I thought for sure he wouldn’t make another roster after he opted out of his philly contract earlier this summer.

The Flip-Miami thing is fairly old. He’s been talking to them for weeks. He was offred a contract by Philly over a month ago, but Flip wants a 2-year deal and with 2010 right around the corner, no one wants to give it to him. Thats the ONLY reason he’s still on the market today.

At his salary range, I don’t see what the big deal is, Flip is great value for the money and 2-mill shouldn’t severly cripple a teams chances of landing a top FA next summer.

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nire, correct me if I’m wrong, but Belkin was NOT participating in any of the cash calls for the past year or two was he? I thought that I read that only the Atlanta & DC owners were providing capital/expense funding to the ASG properties during the court battle. So with the judge’s ruling yesterday, Belkin now has to ante up dough for the properties or risk whatever penalties were built into the standing partnership agreement. Is that a fair assumption?

Here’s the AP report on yesterday’s judgement.

ATLANTA (AP) — A Maryland judge has ruled the eight owners of the Atlanta Hawks and Atlanta Thrashers are back in business under the same operating agreement they shared before their split in 2005.

Montgomery County Circuit Court Judge Durke G. Thompson ruled Monday that the contract the owners reached that would allow the seven owners to buy out Boston-based Steve Belkin was too ambiguous.

The judge encouraged the owners to settle the feud, based in part on a disagreement on the value of Belkin’s 30 percent share of the teams, without outside intervention.

Also at stake are the operating rights to Philips Arena, where the Hawks and Thrashers play.

Michael Gearon, one of the Atlanta-based owners, celebrated Thompson’s decision, delivered in a 38-page ruling.

”We won on every single point,” Gearon said.

”The court did exactly what we asked it to do. We are back under the operating agreement which we think is a good agreement. We no longer have any obligation to buy out Belkin nor does Belkin have any right to purchase the Hawks and Thrashers.”

Belkin can appeal the ruling.

The ownership split began in 2005 over Belkin’s objection to the Hawks’ decision to trade Boris Diaw, two first-round draft picks and a $4.9 million trade exception to the Phoenix Suns for guard Joe Johnson.

The ownership group, led by Gearon and Rutherford Seydel in Atlanta and by Washington businessmen Bruce Levenson and Ed Peskowitz, had the support of NBA commissioner David Stern. Gearon replaced Belkin as the NBA governor in the group.

Belkin asked the other owners to buy out his 30 percent share of the partnership called Atlanta Spirit LLC. But the parties could not agree on the value of Belkin’s share. Then they could not agree on who should set the value.

Belkin, backed by a 2006 Maryland circuit court ruling that was later overturned, then contended he was entitled to buy out his fellow owners at cost and take over the teams.

Thompson said the eight should closely consider how they might reopen the negotiation for the seven to buy out Belkin’s interest. The judge said ”the parties would be well served if they were to reach an agreed buyout price on their own without relying on investment bankers to make such a vital decision for them.”

Added Thompson: ”Much of what has become a stumbling block in this case would be avoided had this been the procedure originally adopted.”

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Hey Daniel,

I told one of my boys yesterday that Woody is not the problem for this team. I really believe Woody’s a good coach, however I would like to see go get a creative offensive minded assistant, but defensively I thinks he can get the guys to play Champioship level defense.

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AJ

You made this good point about Acie:

He will likely be a UFA next summer and have a chance to show and prove with a 1-2 year contract before leaving the NBA

We may reflect years from now about how Acie was in deed a bust but likely he would have cried all the way to the bank. His totally earnings from his team hopping may, no doubt, exceed 10M dollars. Not bad for a projected 1st round bust. If he invested his money properly he could retire on that. The same may even happen to Sheldon. The key is getting drafted in the first round from a basketball recognized school.

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Sekou, thank you for always keeping us informed. I have a question: Schultz’s latest blog said the judge has ruled that Belkin is entitled to become a NBA govenor again. To paraphrase, he’d have to go through the NBA’s rules in order to do so. That being said, will that impact future transactions (JJ’s extension/Joe Smith’s signing)? While the sides are back to square one, it seems that Belkin could pursue his old position again. I hope that is not the case because we may see more fireworks in the weeks/months to come.

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About Acie:

I’ll reserve judgement yet, because I remember the player Acie was hoped to resemble – Chauncey Billups. At the end of Billups second year, he too was presumed to be a bust. We ALL know that how THAT story played out.

And I STILL think he got a raw deal from Woody, given that when he was given at least 15 minutes, he produced on average: 7.2 pts. 2.4 reb. 3.1 ast. 0.8 to

Those are productive numbers (nimbers for you ‘Nique fans) and show that there IS some talent there. I blame Woody for not making Acie’s role any clearer and for using him in such an inconsistent manner that it HAD to lead to a loss of confidence.

I mean WTF happens when, as on 2/10/09 we played the Wizards and Acie had 8 pts, 2 reb, 7 assists, 1 stl and 0 turnovers in 15:28.

The very next game a day later? dnp-cd…. After 7 assists and ZERO turnovers. WTF?

Was THAT good asset management? Not in my opinion.

But I have moved on, and wish Acie well. And may Crawford and Teague make us totally forget Acie.

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Thanks Mr. Smith!

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So now everything with the ownership is back to the way it was before the split happened? WTFE, man.

And for those of you wondering how that acronym goes, the last word is “Ever”….

I like how the judge put it: “all of this could have been avoided had you done the process this way in the first place”

Heh. Should really rename themselves. Instead of ASG, it should be POF….Pile Of Fools…

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Ariose,

Interesting link on Teague. And I thought only Niremetal sat down and came up with stuff like that.

Sautee,

I’ve moved on with that one, too. I will say this, though. Woody spoke his mind when he talked about Teague, and mentioned Law. I think it was pretty clear what he thought about Law from his own statements. And even the staunchest supporters can’t spin that one without making themselves look incredibly stupid.

That’s not to suggest that Woody was wrong about Law and what he was capable of. Furthermore, Acie just went to work for a guy who is far less cut and dry (though far more capable in some areas of coaching, i.e. offense), so I’m not going to dub him a bust if it doesn’t work out there. But he’s not a Hawk anymore. And I feel more apathetic about it now. As Melvin said, a draft bust is still a millionaire…

My concern is with Teague now. It can only help that Woody likes what he sees in the kid, skill-wise. As the head coach, the man’s opinion DOES count. As for what gets done on and off the court, well, that’s up to Teague.

I’m hoping we finally turn out a successful young pg for the first time in who knows how long. If not, everybody knows where the finger pointing will start.

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Damm!!!!

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GeeMack,

I did say that it may be good for short periods of time, but not the start of the game. MW is underrated but he can defend and he can score. I do understand what your referring to, but JC is not the best defenders at the two.

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Sautee, part of Billups’ education was likely playing with so many different teammates ad coaches during his nomadic days. So while I hope that Acie finds that type of success for his sake, drafting a player who needs to be bounced around does NOTHING for the original team. I think of it this way… if a guy burns through a bunch of employers doing a half-butt job while he is “trying to find himself” and ultimately becomes employee of the week, partly because he had to mature, learned from various people along the way and had to learn about personal accountability, it doesn’t mean that any of those ealier employers were wrong to have terminated him. I don’t think the Falcons should have waited for Brett Favre, not if dude was a drunk 3rd string QB who couldn’t get to meetings on time. Undoubtedly, being told “we don;t want you” help to sober him up. But I don’t believe in wasting salary nor an employee’s headcount on someone who doesn’t do their job. There’s someone else who desperately needs that opportunity. I truly wish Acie well. And I hope his journey to success is shorter than the path Billups took (but equally as fulfilling).

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Awaiting the Flash’s take on his boy’s next move….

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BBgenie,
homie u a bigger Hawks fan than I am. I didn’t think that was possible. I agree with most of the stuff you said in your reply. I just don’t think Marvin or JJ has that aggressive attitude to score at will. These guys are not obsessed with winning a title the way Kobe Lebron, & Dwade. We got alot of talent but we lack the killer instinct to win big.

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AJ,

About this: “I think of it this way… if a guy burns through a bunch of employers doing a half-butt job while he is “trying to find himself” and ultimately becomes employee of the week, partly because he had to mature, learned from various people along the way and had to learn about personal accountability, it doesn’t mean that any of those ealier employers were wrong to have terminated him.”

Ok Joe, I can agree with that statement in a vacuum. And I totally agree about Farve. But we do NOT know that this was the case with Acie, do we?

Or, if you know, let ME know.

Otherwise it seems you are damning him for a lack of accountability that I’VE never heard about.

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Hey Sekou Is there a time set for when Joe Smith is going to sign the deal. Or have a press conference introducing his signing.

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Ronald “Flip” Murray is an interesting guy who might fit well for the Magic. He’s had a journeyman’s career, spent last season in Atlanta and put up some great numbers. He played in 80 games, averaged 24.7 minutes per game and 12.2 points per game.

If that will make everybody happy, maybe Orlando will use Flip

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NBTV is rebroadcasting the Hawk/Celtics first game from this past season right now.

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Marvin witht the big 3 from the corner…

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Vava, if you go to Basketball-Reference.com, you will see that Flip’s sole year with the Hawks was very Vinnie-like. Comparable Per, true shooting percentage and scoring average.

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AJ,

Good, you had me worried there.

peace

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vava74, I cannot complain about your examples or stats except Flip shot better than JJ Flip, Marvin, Bibby, and Evans during the regular season last year. This is why he got Acie minutes and maybe some of Bibby minutes. He drove the ball when others backed off for jacking jumpers. For 2 mill we could have asked for nothing better.
I would like to see him resigned to push Crawford to excel. Give them the same amount of playing time, we would see who is pushing who. All the crap about redundant is in performance. Let them fight for the spot.

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OKAY, IF THAT IS END OF FLIP DEBATE, NEW TOPIC:
Who do you guys think should finish out the roster? We have the top 10 rotation, plus Randmo is under contract already. I think we need a backup small forward, preferably that can play some 2guard, and one more big man, just with a usable skill set (rebounder, defender, finisher, etc.)For me i’m already considering us locking Siler up, but I like Korolev or Gerald Green as a backup forward. Johan Petro or Jason Collins can finish up the front court. What say you??

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Jason Collins-C
Stephen Graham-SF
Jason Hart-PG
Siler- 14th man on roster (he and Morris sit and be patient)

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KevinA, I Completely Agree. I’ve shut up about it though(don’t want the hounds sicked on me). Hopefully I will be proven wrong, but based on Crawfords body of work, he’s just a streaky jump shooting combo guard with no defense. He Also isn’t a penetrator(An asset the Flip had), but i’ve overlooked this because of his good ball handling(Bibby isn’t one, Flip was better at it) and the fact that Teauge is a Penetrator by nature.

Like I said, Hopefully i’m proven wrong. As far as PPL(teams) being scared of Craw, I’ve never seen him doubled, certainly not by Woodson and company…and he was very ineffective once Monta came back….don’t know why..

Obviously i’m just pointing out my concerns. The season couldn’t get here any faster so he can shut me up and ease my doubts….hopefully.

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Sigh, more Flip talk. Dude has become a legend on this board. Crawford is a better player than Flip, can we please end this discussion.

Jason Collins is terrible. I read somewhere where Korolev might go back to Russia or something like that. Gerald Green, Hunter, and Siler to finish off the bench.

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If jj is going to play some small forward this year, then why not trade Evans for a 2nd round pick. Dump his salary and sign Flip for 2milfor 2 to 3 years. Or get Korolev as your back up small forward. Evans is not a scorer and is a defensive liabilty agaisnt the top small forwards. Flip has usefulness over a 82 game season.
With the signing Joe Smith, there is no need waste money on non productive second rate big man.

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truthsayer, Im not so sure about Evans anymore. After watching the Miami game 7 over. I realize that i’d forgotten wat an asset he is. A real Glue guy. Every team needs guys like him. He does everthing chills did + he has a 3pt shot to go along with it. He also guards the opposing teams best player(until crunch time when Josh or JJ finally decides to do it). He’s not the playmaker that chills was, but he makes up for that with his hustle around the rim and his peremeter shooting. I don’t want to get rid of him, I just think we need a longer 3rd string SF behiend him in case Marvin goes down with another injury(heaven forbid).

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I will not say Crawford is better than Flip. I will not say Flip is better than Crawford. I will say that Flip and ZaZa came into the game down double didgets and brought the hawks back into the game many times.. Crawford seems to excel in the 4th qt. This is where he posts his best numbers. 2nd and trd qt results? Bench him.

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KevinA,

Yes, Flip shot better than the other guards. What does that mean, exactly? He shot better than JJ. You want him instead of JJ? He shot better than Bibby. You want him instead of Bibby? He shot better than Mo. Fine, but you can play Mo at the SF spot (where we used him nearly all season), but you can’t play Flip there, so what’s your point? Crawford shot worse than Flip did last year, and he also played more minutes.

This argument is getting so old. Of all the teams that both Crawford and Flip have played for, ask yourself this question: why has Crawford always played more minutes, scored more points, and been a starter far more often?

Unless he gets traded, he will be in a Hawks uniform for the next two seasons. Flip won’t. I’m not throwing Flip out, but the guy is a journeyman sub for a reason. I loved what he did for us last year. Properly used, Crawford will do even more.

You’d think we’d be happy about this…

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Ariose,
you may think I am on drugs but I was a Chills fan first. I think he would be the perfect replacement for Crawford, Evans and Flip. He would sign for 6 mil I am sure. That saves 6-7 million next year. Having Flip for 1 year gives Sund the flex to look for a Crawford deal this year. If Crawford proves to be an excellent fit and we have not yet signed JJ, that provides some cover.

Once again I am not so much a Crawford distracter but a 9 million opportunist thinker.

JJ and Al contracts? It could all happen next year and maybe part of the moves this year.

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Ray,
the Chills sign was exciting to me until it didn’t happen. The Flip vrs Crawford is exciting to me until Sund chooses a direction. If Flip made 6 million I would say your right. The idea of Flip for 2 vrs Crawford for 9 I would think raise my type of ideas. The difference is a nice piece on anybody’s team or the extra cash of resigning vets like JJ and Al. Is what I am talking about so far outside the box? I would think this is normal conversation.

Why is conversational chat about possibilities so anti normal. Is this state so red? Maybe if you want to protect Harry the hawk lol.

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Ray, I agree. And by mo’s playmaking, I meant his handle.

Guys, I’ve said before that I think Crawford is better than Flip Murray(offensively). What worries me, is if he’s better for our team. I also have other concernes that I’ve noted on many occasions. I’m just ready to see the product. One thing is for sure, On paprer, this is the best/most talened roster we’ve had in a long long time. We’re not even done yet. Add guys like Siler, Carney, Gerald Green, and/or Korolev and we’re really serious then.

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Ray I could be wrong but if Crawford is to get meaningful minutes he will have to out duel Bibby. Neither plays good defense so just guessing, Bibby will get the nod, being Crawford is the new guy. If Teague is a total wash this year things may take care of themselves. If Teague gets off to a hot start we may have chemistry problems right off the bat.It is all conjecture at this point. I know Woody will not like poor defense. I know Bibby will get more slack because of being a Woody fav. I don’t know, you tell me.

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Not Sure if Crawford is a better fit, but there is one thing i’m darn sure of:

Teauge > Flip Murray

Book it.

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Ray,

The deal with Acie and Speedy is over. Sund did great. At some point it would be nice to move beyond that. It is a win/win/win. As a Hawk fan we need to think, what is next. What is possible. Is there anyone on the team that is more overpaid other than Crawford?

Another player that might help out our money situation in a down economy and shrinking budgets?

You responded with great comments on an earlier post. Crawford being a cover till JJ resigns, 2 mil for a redundant guard that won’t play, Teague getting his minutes cut, needing time till we work all of this out.

My point is resigning Flip for one year at two mil (If that is possible) makes good sense.
Just in case Teague ends up like Acie, Crawford is a bad fit.

Like some others I still think we need a defensive/pass first PG to fill Bibby replacement minutes. Maybe a better player than Evans for Marvin’s replacement minutes. And of course the elusive upgrade of ZaZa for a true banger.

Then there is the money crunch for a Al/JJ resign. All roads run through Crawford.

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My point was is that Chills can play the 1,2,3 spots. I have heard the gripe about Marvin at the three. You want to put Crawford there? With Bibby at point? Are you aware that Crawford has no history of defense?
Going forward, once again I have no problem with Crawford. Compared to our other players he seems the most venerable to trade talks for any kind of upgrade or $ savings.

Unless he plays awesome, given a decent chance, these types of moves would happen more towards the trade deadline or next off season.

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Aroise,

If Teague plays those kind of minutes Crawford is cut to 13 min. Worth 9 mill?

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Gerald Green Update:

http://newsok.com/gerald-green-eager-to-prove-he-belongs-in-the-nba/article/3382576

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DONT KNOW IF THIS IS ALREADY POSTED

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/08/14/hawks/index.html

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No…..Teague playing 18mpg won’t cut Crawford to 13mpg. Why….oh, I give up.

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KevinA,

About this: “The deal with Acie and Speedy is over. Sund did great. At some point it would be nice to move beyond that.”

Were you TRYING for irony?

Most of the rest of the blog was beyond this in July, LOL.

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The Hawks would not have gotten the 4 seed without Flip. He was clearly our best player of the bench last year. The question is will Crawford stay healthy. Flip played in 80 games last year Crawford played in 65.

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Khao$- I was wondering the same thing. Now, in truth the rest of the signings this off season have moved very quickly. But, I keep hearing its done, then its not official, then its done, and so on…
If the reports are true that it is just a one year vet min. What is there to negotiate?

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Clyed: You are right on both counts…Hawks would not have gotten 4 seed w/o Flip last year and he was their best bench player. As to # of games played…in the previous four seasons Flip averaged 59 games played…so who knows what next year will bring….but if you can find one GM that would rather go to war with Law-Murray than Teague-Crawford…well they will soon be unemployed!!!

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Yeah, I’m beginning to worry about the Joe Smith deal too. If it is truly one year for the vet’s minimum, what else is there to discuss? His jersey number?

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Anakin Joe- I think that is a very fair question. Hey, Sekou! What’s up?

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no man aj, i wouldnt do that to you. it is just simply brit reading the top ten for letterman. dont expect content though except for pie for everyone when she becomes president. not sure what kind of pie. heh heh

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gee jerry, i thought we already had that in jj if need be. i mean how much bigger do you need or are you suggesting jj isnt that good a defender? if so beware the wrath of nire!

jerry, durn you are going to get me on my chills high horse here soon if you keep that up. he would have still fit this roster, too, or allowed us to move marvin for something else is my guess. there rod i said it now you can like me and agree with me like you do ray now.

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The Hawks are 6.9M under the L. tax before Joe Smith signs for the Vet. Min. @ 1.3M. When Joe signs that gives the Hawks 5.6M to use on the last 2-4 positions. I figure they will sign the other 2-4 players during training camp. I see the Hawks inviting West, Siler, Hunter, & Korolev to camp along with some other hopefuls. They may invite Jason Hart as well.
What other players do you see the Hawks inviting to camp?

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thanks for the link Melvin. Nice to see joe get some recognition.
Hoops are you counting Randolph Morris?
Probably invite Gardner, also.
They clearly won’t use that whole 5.6 mil on the last guys on the bench, which is nice to have some flexibility to take on salary if a good trade presents itself during the season.
I like Korolev to make the team, as many have mentioned we could use another long SF type on the bench who can shoot.
I seriously doubt Siler makes the team, probably gets a d-league contract.
Hunter/West/Hart(other pg) will be scrapping for one spot between them.
Morris is the monkey in this whole bench works. More specifically his 800,000 contract. Were it not for that contract, he probably doesn’t even get invited to camp. Do the Hawks keep him because of the money? Do they just eat it? Do they get some team to pick up his contract for a bowl of chips. If Sund gets someone to take Morris off our hands and gets something in return, even just cash considerations, he would be a miracle worker.

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Snzzzzzz…..

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