Another Joe, another Smith?
Foes a year ago, Josh (left) and Joe Smith (no relation) will team up on the Hawks' suddenly improved frontline this season.
HAWKSVILLE - There’s room in the Hawks’ locker room for another Joe. And certainly enough room for another Smith.
And if the early reports are true, ESPN’s Ric Bucher reported it first Friday afternoon, veteran power forward Joe Smith will indeed be joining the clan in the ‘ville on a one-year deal, possibly as early as this week.
The Hawks aren’t confirming or denying anything, per their policy on all free agent matters this summer. Sources indicate that Smith has indeed agreed to join the team but that no deal has been finalized yet and nothing has been signed. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that barring a last-minute catastrophe, this deal is going to get done.
It’s the answer to many questions for the Hawks up front. Smith is the veteran, spot up shooter, rebounder, locker room leader and wise voice for youngsters Josh Smith and Al Horford (in particular) the Hawks have been looking for. His addition will give the Hawks a solid two-deep depth chart up and down the lineup, leaving three to four roster spots up for grabs for the likes of Randolph Morris, Garret Siler, Othello Hunter and whoever else shows for training camp.
Josh Smith, Horford and Zaza Pachulia will be happiest about the elder Smith joining the fray. They need the assistance, on every front. They were without a veteran assist last season, a deficiency that was magnified during the playoffs against Joe Smith’s old team (Cleveland), which disposed of the Hawks in four games in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
A versatile 6-10, 225-pounder, Smith plays bigger than his listed size. He always has, dating back to his days at Maryland, when he dominated the competition on his way to becoming the No. 1 pick in the 1995 NBA draft. This is yet another summertime coup for the Hawks, who have bargained shopped their way back to the fourth spot on the Eastern Conference food chain behind Cleveland, Boston and Orlando (last year’s order but not necessarily the pecking order for this season). Seriously, for all the cash spent in other places, the Hawks used a prudent, cost-conscious approach to bring back the core of a 47-win team, while also adding two key veterans in Smith (pending the completion of his deal) and Jamal Crawford, not to mention promising rookie in point guard Jeff Teague.
Joe Smith isn’t an acquisition on the level of Rasheed Wallace (Boston), Shaquille O’Neal (Cleveland), Vince Carter (Orlando) or even Hedo Turkoglu (Toronto) for that matter. But he’s exactly what the Hawks needed at a position of critical importance. He’s also a fantastic insurance policy at an even better price, should injuries to Smith, Horford or even Marvin Williams become a factor the way they did last season, when all three of the Hawks’ young frontcourt studs missed considerable time last season with injuries.
So with basically all the heavy lifting done now, how do you rate the Hawks’ summer to this point? Good, bad or something else?
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519 comments Add your comment
macaroni tony
August 18th, 2009
12:31 pm
GeeMack
That would be a dumb move. Because you would risk moving JJ to the three, and that could bring more ealier fouls. I say do that on a limited bases for a offensive spark.
Sekou Smith
August 18th, 2009
12:53 pm
No GeeMack. Woody hasn’t mentioned doing anything to his starting lineup. Crawforrd will come off the bench and will probably have the green light to do work at all times.
Joe's place Joe speaking
August 18th, 2009
1:00 pm
Thanks Ariose!
Khao$
August 18th, 2009
1:56 pm
Sekou, thank you for always keeping us informed. I have a question: Schultz’s latest blog said the judge has ruled that Belkin is entitled to become a NBA govenor again. To paraphrase, he’d have to go through the NBA’s rules in order to do so. That being said, will that impact future transactions (JJ’s extension/Joe Smith’s signing)? While the sides are back to square one, it seems that Belkin could pursue his old position again. I hope that is not the case because we may see more fireworks in the weeks/months to come.
GeeMack
August 18th, 2009
2:53 pm
Thanks Sekou,
macaroni tony,
Although it sounds like a pretty silly move…one of our biggest challenges last year was scoring out of the gate. In 11 out of the 13 games we lost by 10 or more point. We were out scored in the opening period by double digits. Most of this steamed from teams making a concerted effort to slow JJ. Leading me to believe we need to add an explosive scorer to the starting unit or Marvin & Josh really needt to break out this year.
Sautee
August 18th, 2009
3:03 pm
About Acie:
I’ll reserve judgement yet, because I remember the player Acie was hoped to resemble – Chauncey Billups. At the end of Billups second year, he too was presumed to be a bust. We ALL know that how THAT story played out.
And I STILL think he got a raw deal from Woody, given that when he was given at least 15 minutes, he produced on average: 7.2 pts. 2.4 reb. 3.1 ast. 0.8 to
Those are productive numbers (nimbers for you ‘Nique fans) and show that there IS some talent there. I blame Woody for not making Acie’s role any clearer and for using him in such an inconsistent manner that it HAD to lead to a loss of confidence.
I mean WTF happens when, as on 2/10/09 we played the Wizards and Acie had 8 pts, 2 reb, 7 assists, 1 stl and 0 turnovers in 15:28.
The very next game a day later? dnp-cd…. After 7 assists and ZERO turnovers. WTF?
Was THAT good asset management? Not in my opinion.
But I have moved on, and wish Acie well. And may Crawford and Teague make us totally forget Acie.
Sekou Smith
August 18th, 2009
3:05 pm
Sorry to answer twice khaos (here and on Twitter), but the way I understand it: Belkin’s term as governor would have ended in March. So the league would have a hard time awarding him anything based on that expiration date. Michael Gearon Jr. stays as the team’s governor. Also, Belkin has no objected to any of the deals the Hawks have done the past two years (in particular), so I can’t imagine he’d start now. It would be nice to speak directly with him, but that hasn’t happened yet.
Khao$
August 18th, 2009
3:26 pm
Thanks Mr. Smith!
BBgenie
August 18th, 2009
3:27 pm
GeeMack,
Signing Joe Smith, resigning Flip and picking up the right big (5) spot player. I feel we can compete This Season for the CHAMPIONSHIP! How? We MUST Rebound stronger and better, everyone across the roster. Coach Woodson must learn to manage minutes better for the good of the team. Having (5) good backcourt players is a GOOD Problem to have, remember how the Celtics could bring in starters off the bench (E. House & Marbury). I know people will say “what about J.Teague minutes” right. Well, I love the addition of Teague. But is he the next Magic Johnson? No! So let’s not get caught up in how many minutes he will be given, let’s focus in on how much playing time he will EARN! Teague will become the Hawks future floor general, he will be our small quick guard who will match/up against T.Parker, C. Paul, N. Robinson, D. Harris, D. Rose & Rondo so he will get plenty of PT. The battle for minutes in the backcourt will be between Bibby & Flip. Murry proved what he can do last year,and he won a few games for us. He is a match-up problem for opposing teams so we need him. How will it make the other players feel if Hawks management Flip the script on Flip???? I know he has some off the floor issues but that’s personal. If we are forced to keep R.Morris, light a flame under his Ass and get more/better production from him. Try him at the (4) spot vs. opponents 2nd unit power forwards sometimes. From a Coaching stand point try to get Al & J.Smooth more involved early during the game. (Play inside/out). We expect the Hawks to show more of a Low Post game from the 3,4,& 5 spots. Work with Joe Johnson on his (Ball Stop) habits. Show him game tape of himself along with a running stop watch to get him to understand what damage he is causing in our 1/2 court sets by not making quicker decision in the flow of our offense. Work with JJ on trying to get 10 assits a night or becoming more of a facilitator on the floor. M. Williams must play like a true #2 pick, no more excuses, take to ball to the RIM! Defend the 2 & 3 positions. And take his shot. J. Smooth must become the true ALL STAR he wants to be. We need him to fill up the stat sheet every game. Stay mature with the REF’s at all times. And develope much better shot selection in games. Volunteer to GUARD LeBron if nesseary. Become a Leader on the floor. Bibby, Crawford & Teague give us 35pt, 15ast, 15FTA, & very limited T/O per game between the three of them. ZaZa, continue to be the BEAST on the glass you are, develope more post up or low post moves. Stop throwing up garbage, learn to use the glass more and get fouls on opponents centers. Use Joe Smith in the middle/(5) spot, he can run the floor and he has a stronger offensive skill set compared to any of our current big’s aka. (ZaZa & Morris) Bench crew, know your role and learn to love it. If our 2nd unit out produces other teams in the NBA we will advance to the Top 4 in the EAST again. Woody must allow the young fresh Hawks to RUN, RUN, RUN! When we learn to play stronger transition DEFENSE, Rebound the ball, and start to DICTATE Match/up vs Teams, (Force Teams to m/up to us). We will create a brand of basketball that the (Show Time Lakers) displayed on their Championship Run! See you at the Eastern Conference Finals! Hawks in 7!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
August 18th, 2009
3:29 pm
So now everything with the ownership is back to the way it was before the split happened? WTFE, man.
And for those of you wondering how that acronym goes, the last word is “Ever”….
I like how the judge put it: “all of this could have been avoided had you done the process this way in the first place”
Heh. Should really rename themselves. Instead of ASG, it should be POF….Pile Of Fools…
doc
August 18th, 2009
3:38 pm
bid ray it has always been that. guess i cant say the Broken Atlanta Sprit Group anymore as it might be in contempt of the court. guess POF works
Big Ray
August 18th, 2009
3:39 pm
Ariose,
Interesting link on Teague. And I thought only Niremetal sat down and came up with stuff like that.
Sautee,
I’ve moved on with that one, too. I will say this, though. Woody spoke his mind when he talked about Teague, and mentioned Law. I think it was pretty clear what he thought about Law from his own statements. And even the staunchest supporters can’t spin that one without making themselves look incredibly stupid.
That’s not to suggest that Woody was wrong about Law and what he was capable of. Furthermore, Acie just went to work for a guy who is far less cut and dry (though far more capable in some areas of coaching, i.e. offense), so I’m not going to dub him a bust if it doesn’t work out there. But he’s not a Hawk anymore. And I feel more apathetic about it now. As Melvin said, a draft bust is still a millionaire…
My concern is with Teague now. It can only help that Woody likes what he sees in the kid, skill-wise. As the head coach, the man’s opinion DOES count. As for what gets done on and off the court, well, that’s up to Teague.
I’m hoping we finally turn out a successful young pg for the first time in who knows how long. If not, everybody knows where the finger pointing will start.
Big Ray
August 18th, 2009
3:40 pm
Doc,
Yeah, apparently money isn’t quite the issue here. As Niremetal suggests, the attorneys win. Nobody else does..
BBgenie
August 18th, 2009
3:55 pm
Damm!!!!
doc
August 18th, 2009
3:58 pm
ray, power is the issue with these guys. it is why they have the money, to exert it. there is the story i repeated along time back about belkin holding onto all star tix instead of sharing them with the group as an entitlement to his governor status. i was taken to task by it by the flash who defended the guy. look as fans we have been held hostage by these guys all along, said it way back then, say it again. funny how stupid belkin looks for his grandstand act of being the governor only to see the team progress without him or in spite of him or all of them. wonder if any of these guys get it yet. though maybe belkin needed defending i really think all along none of the guys needed defending but the derision heaped upon them in buckets by me and others. maybe they are getting it right, maybe sund is showing them what professionals do. i pray so. just the same they cant take the cake from the rankin smith era of the falcons. yuck man yuck.
macaroni tony
August 18th, 2009
4:12 pm
GeeMack,
I did say that it may be good for short periods of time, but not the start of the game. MW is underrated but he can defend and he can score. I do understand what your referring to, but JC is not the best defenders at the two.
hawkspride
August 18th, 2009
4:27 pm
the hawks are not going to make it to the conference finals that not a real reality we still have a lot of holes in our front line…..
Anakin Joe
August 18th, 2009
4:59 pm
Sautee, part of Billups’ education was likely playing with so many different teammates ad coaches during his nomadic days. So while I hope that Acie finds that type of success for his sake, drafting a player who needs to be bounced around does NOTHING for the original team. I think of it this way… if a guy burns through a bunch of employers doing a half-butt job while he is “trying to find himself” and ultimately becomes employee of the week, partly because he had to mature, learned from various people along the way and had to learn about personal accountability, it doesn’t mean that any of those ealier employers were wrong to have terminated him. I don’t think the Falcons should have waited for Brett Favre, not if dude was a drunk 3rd string QB who couldn’t get to meetings on time. Undoubtedly, being told “we don;t want you” help to sober him up. But I don’t believe in wasting salary nor an employee’s headcount on someone who doesn’t do their job. There’s someone else who desperately needs that opportunity. I truly wish Acie well. And I hope his journey to success is shorter than the path Billups took (but equally as fulfilling).
macaroni tony
August 18th, 2009
5:19 pm
Allen Iverson: If you think that I am just going away-Think again! I am getting ready for the NBA season. Waiting for the call. Charlotte, Miami, NY. Twitter.com
newkid
August 18th, 2009
5:20 pm
Awaiting the Flash’s take on his boy’s next move….
doc
August 18th, 2009
5:25 pm
newkid, aint that the truth, it could be an interesting spin.
GeeMack
August 18th, 2009
5:36 pm
BBgenie,
homie u a bigger Hawks fan than I am. I didn’t think that was possible. I agree with most of the stuff you said in your reply. I just don’t think Marvin or JJ has that aggressive attitude to score at will. These guys are not obsessed with winning a title the way Kobe Lebron, & Dwade. We got alot of talent but we lack the killer instinct to win big.
Ken Strickland
August 18th, 2009
6:33 pm
THE ATLANTA HAWKS WILL NOT RESIGN FLIP MURRAY, Let me repeat that for those of you that are having difficulty comprehending the statement. THE ATLANTA HAWKS WILL NOT RESIGN FLIP MURRAY. We’ve upgraded by adding JCrawford, a combo guard like Flip who’s demonstrated much better scoring and PG ability. We’ve also acquired a pure PG in draftee Teague, so there’s absolutely no logical reason, financially or otherwise, for the Hawks to resign Flip Murray. Some of you are of the opinion he’ll come back to haunt us if we don’t resign him. Well, the only way he’ll pose a problem for us is if Woodson insists on trying to guard him with Bibby.
Sautee
August 18th, 2009
6:41 pm
AJ,
About this: “I think of it this way… if a guy burns through a bunch of employers doing a half-butt job while he is “trying to find himself” and ultimately becomes employee of the week, partly because he had to mature, learned from various people along the way and had to learn about personal accountability, it doesn’t mean that any of those ealier employers were wrong to have terminated him.”
Ok Joe, I can agree with that statement in a vacuum. And I totally agree about Farve. But we do NOT know that this was the case with Acie, do we?
Or, if you know, let ME know.
Otherwise it seems you are damning him for a lack of accountability that I’VE never heard about.
Mike
August 18th, 2009
7:28 pm
Thank you Ken Strickland!!
truly1
August 18th, 2009
7:36 pm
Hey Sekou Is there a time set for when Joe Smith is going to sign the deal. Or have a press conference introducing his signing.
macaroni tony
August 18th, 2009
7:44 pm
We will be the last Hawks laughing! I think it’s funny how people think that we will fall out of the fourth spot to the Wizards or the Raptors.
The Truth
August 18th, 2009
8:09 pm
Ronald “Flip” Murray is an interesting guy who might fit well for the Magic. He’s had a journeyman’s career, spent last season in Atlanta and put up some great numbers. He played in 80 games, averaged 24.7 minutes per game and 12.2 points per game.
If that will make everybody happy, maybe Orlando will use Flip
Anakin Joe
August 18th, 2009
8:15 pm
Sautee, I don’t nor did I mean to insinuate that I did. I was speaking in general about guys who take that “nomadic path”… which is the way I characterize Billups’ journey and you mentioned Billups as a comparison to Acie. If Acie has his act together, he should bounce back with his next contract/team (after the Warriors).
Melvin
August 18th, 2009
8:22 pm
NBTV is rebroadcasting the Hawk/Celtics first game from this past season right now.
Mystikal
August 18th, 2009
8:33 pm
Co-sign Ken Strickland!!
Melvin
August 18th, 2009
8:56 pm
Marvin witht the big 3 from the corner…
vava74
August 18th, 2009
9:04 pm
Could someone in this blog put a gag on anyone bringing the Flip issue back again?
He was useful last year, however, he was not SOLID and he is GONE!!!!
If you want to see solid stats from someone he should model his game from, look at these (and then the playoff ones):
http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=vinnie_johnson
Look at the FG% difference and you will see what a SOLID combo G 6th man should do (yes I know that Vinny did not have 3PT range).
Now we have to demand from Crawford that he also improves his shot selection and refrains from going into a shooting binge when he is on an off-day.
Smart players know that when their shot is not falling they must contribute with other stuff and wait for better, easier oportunities to score (backdoor cut situations, quick transition dunks and layups, …).
Flip had good games but also had AWFUL games. Let’s just hope that Crawford is better and get over this Flip obsession.
If you give Teague 25 minutes per game, I am sure that he will also shoot 30% from the field in the playoffs and average 10PPG like Flip did!!!!!
Anakin Joe
August 18th, 2009
9:17 pm
Vava, if you go to Basketball-Reference.com, you will see that Flip’s sole year with the Hawks was very Vinnie-like. Comparable Per, true shooting percentage and scoring average.
vava74
August 18th, 2009
9:24 pm
I disagree: Flip is comparable with Vinnie’s last year when he was 35!
Flip had many games in which he would go 0-9 and others in which he would go 8-9. Vinnie was consistent and a smart shooter, always looking for his specialty: mid-range pull up after bumping the defender with his massive torso or butt.
Flip just doesn’t know when a shot is good or bad he takes whatever he feels like.
He his historically a poor shooter and had A particularly good year with the Hawks.
There is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that he would repeat this performance and you should LOOK AT THE PLAYOFF STATS.
The guy shot 30% from the field!!!! I agree that he had a couple games in which he was important but every time he made a couple of important shots, these were preceded or succeeded by a series of bad ones.
Sautee
August 18th, 2009
9:41 pm
AJ,
Good, you had me worried there.
peace
Doug
August 18th, 2009
10:08 pm
I continue to stand amazed at this boards infatuation with a truly medicre NBA player…Flip…who proved useful and played at somewhat beyond his career norms last year with the Hawks. This is my last post on the Flip issue because it is moot…he will not be,,,should not be…signed by the Hawks…he will sign for the mid level exception or worse with some team and continue to track as a useful but extremely limited backup.
KevinA
August 18th, 2009
10:13 pm
vava74, I cannot complain about your examples or stats except Flip shot better than JJ Flip, Marvin, Bibby, and Evans during the regular season last year. This is why he got Acie minutes and maybe some of Bibby minutes. He drove the ball when others backed off for jacking jumpers. For 2 mill we could have asked for nothing better.
I would like to see him resigned to push Crawford to excel. Give them the same amount of playing time, we would see who is pushing who. All the crap about redundant is in performance. Let them fight for the spot.
Yahoo
August 18th, 2009
10:23 pm
Doug (The Flip Hater)
The word is spelled “mediocre” you dummy
Mystikal
August 18th, 2009
10:31 pm
OKAY, IF THAT IS END OF FLIP DEBATE, NEW TOPIC:
Who do you guys think should finish out the roster? We have the top 10 rotation, plus Randmo is under contract already. I think we need a backup small forward, preferably that can play some 2guard, and one more big man, just with a usable skill set (rebounder, defender, finisher, etc.)For me i’m already considering us locking Siler up, but I like Korolev or Gerald Green as a backup forward. Johan Petro or Jason Collins can finish up the front court. What say you??
KevinA
August 18th, 2009
10:40 pm
Doug,
bless his heart can’t understand what a year Flip had. He thinks that Crawford will be a huge upgrade while his defense suggests otherwise.
NBA tv has had two games with the Warriors on. One last night and one tonight. Yes he can create his own shot. but I have seen nothing that shows his assist potential. I have seen two drives to the bucket. What I did see is another jump shooting asset. He is good, but he will not get the ball to the front court.
We don’t need streaky. We need a passing G. We need a player who can feed the big’s. In the long run you will bitch with the amount of misses he has. Flip out shot every guard and he still gets no respect. Crawford is guard with a .402 shooting% and little else. That does not mean that Flip is good at passing. Both players are lousy at that.
UGA
August 18th, 2009
10:41 pm
Jason Collins-C
Stephen Graham-SF
Jason Hart-PG
Siler- 14th man on roster (he and Morris sit and be patient)
Ariose
August 18th, 2009
10:48 pm
Sekou’s Got a new Article about the ASG up.
Just say no to Colllins, Grahm and, Hart.
Say yes to Carney, Siler, Green/Korolev, and West
Ariose
August 18th, 2009
10:56 pm
KevinA, I Completely Agree. I’ve shut up about it though(don’t want the hounds sicked on me). Hopefully I will be proven wrong, but based on Crawfords body of work, he’s just a streaky jump shooting combo guard with no defense. He Also isn’t a penetrator(An asset the Flip had), but i’ve overlooked this because of his good ball handling(Bibby isn’t one, Flip was better at it) and the fact that Teauge is a Penetrator by nature.
Like I said, Hopefully i’m proven wrong. As far as PPL(teams) being scared of Craw, I’ve never seen him doubled, certainly not by Woodson and company…and he was very ineffective once Monta came back….don’t know why..
Obviously i’m just pointing out my concerns. The season couldn’t get here any faster so he can shut me up and ease my doubts….hopefully.
KevinA
August 18th, 2009
10:58 pm
Thinking that every NBA player should be able to shoot a jump shot after a couple of years, we need to rethink Mario. A high risk project would be a better gamble.Mario had his shot, if preseason shows no change it is time to say good bye.
cp
August 18th, 2009
11:06 pm
Sigh, more Flip talk. Dude has become a legend on this board. Crawford is a better player than Flip, can we please end this discussion.
Jason Collins is terrible. I read somewhere where Korolev might go back to Russia or something like that. Gerald Green, Hunter, and Siler to finish off the bench.
KevinA
August 18th, 2009
11:08 pm
Ariose, we all want the best for the Hawks but like you said we don’t want to be hounded by the the folks that think Crawford is a huge upgrade over Flip. When he is hot he will be a big fan fav. When he is not we will prob lose if he gets many attempts.
I want Marvin, Josh and Al to get those attempts, Biby and JJ jack enough jumpers on their own.
truthsayer
August 18th, 2009
11:18 pm
If jj is going to play some small forward this year, then why not trade Evans for a 2nd round pick. Dump his salary and sign Flip for 2milfor 2 to 3 years. Or get Korolev as your back up small forward. Evans is not a scorer and is a defensive liabilty agaisnt the top small forwards. Flip has usefulness over a 82 game season.
With the signing Joe Smith, there is no need waste money on non productive second rate big man.
Ariose
August 18th, 2009
11:21 pm
Look, J-Craw looks to be more gifted offensively, but you have to put I in prespective. Crawford avgs 3,000 min a season for his career, while Flip AVGS a little over a thousand.
For their careers:
Crawford: A little over 19,000 total minutes played
Murray: A little over 9,000 minutes played
You also have to take into account that Crawford has always played on bad teams whereas Flip has always been a winner. Conversely, I think If Flip has been in Crawfords position all those years, he would have averaged well above 35mpg every season and padded his scoring stats as well.
Also, while Flip has played a lot of SG thoughout his career, it’s mostly been spot duty. He’s Mainly played PG his whole career…..seriously. Detriot, CLE, Indiana, ATL: Point, Point, Point, Point. So while everyone likes to scoff at his ability to assist others, he has gotten the job done over his career. His post season numbers are even better. Elevated FT% and A:TO
He’s certainly not a flashy passer, but he assists on the break to our bigs VERY effectively. He’s a great transition guy to have on the squad. He’s more of a direct passer but he rarly throws the ball away when attemptin to dish to someone.
Anyhoo….I hope Belkin can quit B!#$ching and just agree with the madjority of the owners from now on. IDK what his deal was. Obviously he’s the cheapest rich guy on the planet lol. I literally have some Belkin wireless eqipment in my apartment(pure coincidence), so I don’t understand why he was crying over giving one of the best SG’s in the land a couple mill. WTFE
Ariose
August 18th, 2009
11:31 pm
truthsayer, Im not so sure about Evans anymore. After watching the Miami game 7 over. I realize that i’d forgotten wat an asset he is. A real Glue guy. Every team needs guys like him. He does everthing chills did + he has a 3pt shot to go along with it. He also guards the opposing teams best player(until crunch time when Josh or JJ finally decides to do it). He’s not the playmaker that chills was, but he makes up for that with his hustle around the rim and his peremeter shooting. I don’t want to get rid of him, I just think we need a longer 3rd string SF behiend him in case Marvin goes down with another injury(heaven forbid).