Another Joe, another Smith?
Foes a year ago, Josh (left) and Joe Smith (no relation) will team up on the Hawks' suddenly improved frontline this season.
HAWKSVILLE - There’s room in the Hawks’ locker room for another Joe. And certainly enough room for another Smith.
And if the early reports are true, ESPN’s Ric Bucher reported it first Friday afternoon, veteran power forward Joe Smith will indeed be joining the clan in the ‘ville on a one-year deal, possibly as early as this week.
The Hawks aren’t confirming or denying anything, per their policy on all free agent matters this summer. Sources indicate that Smith has indeed agreed to join the team but that no deal has been finalized yet and nothing has been signed. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that barring a last-minute catastrophe, this deal is going to get done.
It’s the answer to many questions for the Hawks up front. Smith is the veteran, spot up shooter, rebounder, locker room leader and wise voice for youngsters Josh Smith and Al Horford (in particular) the Hawks have been looking for. His addition will give the Hawks a solid two-deep depth chart up and down the lineup, leaving three to four roster spots up for grabs for the likes of Randolph Morris, Garret Siler, Othello Hunter and whoever else shows for training camp.
Josh Smith, Horford and Zaza Pachulia will be happiest about the elder Smith joining the fray. They need the assistance, on every front. They were without a veteran assist last season, a deficiency that was magnified during the playoffs against Joe Smith’s old team (Cleveland), which disposed of the Hawks in four games in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
A versatile 6-10, 225-pounder, Smith plays bigger than his listed size. He always has, dating back to his days at Maryland, when he dominated the competition on his way to becoming the No. 1 pick in the 1995 NBA draft. This is yet another summertime coup for the Hawks, who have bargained shopped their way back to the fourth spot on the Eastern Conference food chain behind Cleveland, Boston and Orlando (last year’s order but not necessarily the pecking order for this season). Seriously, for all the cash spent in other places, the Hawks used a prudent, cost-conscious approach to bring back the core of a 47-win team, while also adding two key veterans in Smith (pending the completion of his deal) and Jamal Crawford, not to mention promising rookie in point guard Jeff Teague.
Joe Smith isn’t an acquisition on the level of Rasheed Wallace (Boston), Shaquille O’Neal (Cleveland), Vince Carter (Orlando) or even Hedo Turkoglu (Toronto) for that matter. But he’s exactly what the Hawks needed at a position of critical importance. He’s also a fantastic insurance policy at an even better price, should injuries to Smith, Horford or even Marvin Williams become a factor the way they did last season, when all three of the Hawks’ young frontcourt studs missed considerable time last season with injuries.
So with basically all the heavy lifting done now, how do you rate the Hawks’ summer to this point? Good, bad or something else?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
519 comments Add your comment
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
1:07 pm
Also, take a look around the league. $9M is not really overpaying for a good Sixth Man who gets 20-25 minutes a game. Hell, considering the number of players making $8M+ and not getting any minutes at all, it’s tough to balk at the sticker price for a Sixth Man who gives you those kind of minutes. And even if that weren’t true…thanks to the salary cap rules, anyone we traded him for would make roughly the same amount of money. So we’d run into the same issue if we traded Crawford for an “Evans upgrade,” because I don’t see any such upgrades out there who would be a “better deal” for that salary.
Ken,
I agree on Orlando. I also think people are ignoring the fact that there’s a very large risk Shaq doesn’t fit in well in Cleveland. They already have Ilgauskas, and you can’t put Shaq and Ilgauskas on the floor at the same time. Ilgauskas might be a better running mate at the pivot for LeBron since he can pick-and-pop and has better passing skills than Shaq. They also gave up their best perimeter defender (aside, perhaps, from LeBron himself) by trading Pavlovic. Considering that this is a team that got as far as they did based mostly on defense, and Shaq was not lauded for his D even in his prime, the Shaq trade is a much bigger risk than I think most people realize.
Anakin Joe
August 16th, 2009
1:14 pm
Ken, Oralndo’s bench, their bench, could look like this… AJ, Reddick, Barnes, Bass and Gortat. And Rayn Anderson is another 6′10″ wing with unlimited range on his shot. They will likely be an even better defensive team if Peitrus can stay healthy and Vince Carter is a better defender than Hedo. I know that Rashard will miss the early part of the season but I honestly think that Anderson and Barnes can provide his ability to stretch the floor. And I don;t think that we can assume that Jameer and Pietrus will miss most of the regular season again. Unlike the other teams, Orlando has depth at every position that is either young or in their prime. I am more certain about the Magic than I am Boston. Boston was old, got a little older (replacing Powe with Rasheed) and who knows what’s really going on in the locker room with Rondo? But Orlando? I’m absolutely positiviely sold on that squad… players 1-11.
PD
August 16th, 2009
1:33 pm
Amazing stuff Hawks and Sekou with the reporting update on the Hawks ownership hold up.
JSS
August 16th, 2009
2:01 pm
Men’s 100 M semis
Heat 1 U. Bolt 9.89. D. Bailey 9.96 (TRI), D. Patrick (US) 9.98 (3 false starts in the race. He (Bolt) jogged
Heat 2. T Gay (US) 9.93, A. Powell (JA) 9.95, R. Thompson (BAH) 9.98… Gay had to work hard, horrible starts, it doesn’t look good for the final…
O'Brien
August 16th, 2009
2:31 pm
Ken,
I dont know if Big Z is a better passer than Shaq. I think they’re about equal. The good thing for the Cavs is that they can limit Shaq’s minutes during the course of the year, so both he and big Z should be fresh (barring injuries) all year long. And on the perimeter, they added Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon, so I think they will be fine. Plus they still have LeBron.
I like Orlando’s team too. Imagine if D-12 adds some more offensive moves? And we know they can shoot the 3. Plus Vince is still a threat offensively. And we know Pietrus plays solid perimeter defense, and Nelson is an all star PG.
And if Boston is healthy, they are still dangerous. In my opinion, the Hawks may have closed the gap, but I’m not so sure about overtaking (I hope I’m wrong).
Some X-factors for the Hawks: How does Woody manage his substitutions? When do we play small ball to force the other team to match up with us? When do we push the tempo? What plays do we run when the game is on the line?
Sautee
August 16th, 2009
3:00 pm
doc,
LOL
But I’ll have to say there’s a definite difference in that Jonathan’s job is to “perform” and “write great songs”. He’s already done the writing part (par excellence) and the performing part can vary night to night. Certainly he was excellent at Evening Star, but, as he would attest, there HAVE been nights we played together that both of us would say “yeah, we were decent” but no more than that. Not that most would know, but WE know. And I suppose that’s where such a skewed descriptive would come from…..knowing that even on an off night we did our job professionally.
How about this: Rick Sund showed by this offseason that he is a vast improvement over the mediocrity to which we’ve become accustomed.
Better?
ME!
August 16th, 2009
3:45 pm
SIGN FLIP!!!!!, Just in case teague isn’t ready. or you can just bring him off the bench at shooting guard behing jamal……. SIGN FLIP BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!
JSS
August 16th, 2009
3:46 pm
9.58!!!
JSS
August 16th, 2009
3:48 pm
Second coming of Bob Hayes!!! Game try by Tyson… This place is going wild!!! Talk to you guys later
Ramon
August 16th, 2009
3:59 pm
Niremetal, I must disagree with you. Shaq is a lot better of a passer than Ilguaskas. Shaq is actually one of the 2 best passing centers in the league, if not the flat out best. Shaq has always been able to pass out of double and trip team coverage to set shooters up, or cutters.
vish
August 16th, 2009
4:09 pm
KevinA
Like your idea, but can you think of a guy that would fit the bill?
The utility of JC beyond a flip upgrade is in the event of an injury to marvin williams or JJ where crawford can fill in as the starter without too much of a dropoff in quality. Do you have anyone like that in mind who would:
1. be willing to play behind marvin when hes healthy
2. substitute as a starter without a huge dropoff
3. cost less than 11.5 million
If not, staying with what we have seems smarter.
doc
August 16th, 2009
4:13 pm
the thing is as a pro in the music world you know what it takes, in this profession you dont, so maybe it is best to err on the side of ignorance and build it up rather than the other way around. try it, you wont lose a leg and it will challenge your intellectual side to say decent in flowery terms. heh heh. glad you enjoyed the fun, i couldnt resist. ultimately it is all relative and really inconsequential to the big picture.
in the meantime, your attempt was, uh, pretty “decent”?
Hoops
August 16th, 2009
5:04 pm
KevinA,
I agree with nire about not projecting the minutes each player will play. I think there are many line up possibilities for Woodson to explore. These are some of the lineups that I see Woodson using:
Starters early on-PG-Bibby, SG-JJ, SF-Marvin, PF-Josh, C-Horford
Small but deadly lineup-Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Marvin, Horford
Running lineup-Teague, Crawford, JJ, Josh, Horford/Zaza
Big lineup-Crawford, JJ, Marvin, Horford, Silo
Explosive lineup-Crawford, JJ, Korolev, Marvin, Joe S.
Defensive lineup-Teague, JJ, Marvin, Josh S, Horford
Rebounding lineup-JJ, Crawford, Marvin, Horford, Zaza
Pentrating lineup-Teague, Crawford, JJ, Marvin, Josh S.
Victory lineup-Teague, Evans, Korolev, Morris, Silo
No defense lineup-Bibby, Crawford, Korolev, Morris, Silo
I like this team! We have a lot of lineup possibilities to cause some tough match up problems for our opponents!
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
5:34 pm
We could also do a shooters’ lineup of Bibby-JJ/Craw/Marv (pick any 2 of 3)-Joe S.-Horford/Zaza (depending on whether you want more shooting/passing or more offensive rebounding). We could also do a “matchup nightmare” lineup of Crawford-JJ-Marvin-Josh-Horford. Then we really could switch on every screen.
The best thing is that Joe S. is the perfect complement to Josh because Joe S’s strengths (shooting, post defense) fill in the gaps for Josh’s weaknesses and vice versa (Joe S’s biggest weakness is helpside D).
But really, the lineup to watch for the future is Teague-JJ-Marvin-Josh-Al. You have that listed as a “defensive” lineup, but I see that as our most versatile lineup in terms of catering to our overall strengths. That lineup in transition would just be sick. The big question mark is simply whether Teague has the mentality of a floor general.
gwite
August 16th, 2009
5:45 pm
Enter your comments here
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
5:52 pm
Ramon,
Eh…I think Ilgauskas’s passing skills are persistently underrated. He doesn’t get a lot of assists, but that’s not a center’s job. Ilgauskas collects rebounds on both ends and makes perfect outlet passes and gets the ball back out to the perimeter without ever turning the ball over.
Shaq makes the occassional highlight reel pass out of the post, but he has been turnover-prone throughout his career. He usually goes straight back up off all offensive boards, even late in the game when managing the clock is more important. And I’ve seen him blow fast break opportunities plenty of times by making an ill-advised outlet pass.
Both are good. But for the type of offense that Cleveland runs, a “mistake-free” passer like Ilgauskas is more important than a “pass-on-instinct” guy like Shaq.
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
5:57 pm
Anyway, my original point was not to get bogged down in Ilgauskas and Shaq’s relative passing skills, but rather that 1) I don’t see that having both of them on the same team as a particularly effective use of roster space (who do they go with against a pick-and-roll team?) and 2) that Ilguaskas’s skills are a better complement to LeBron’s and a better fit for Mike Brown’s otherwise perimeter shooting-focused offense.
vava74
August 16th, 2009
5:59 pm
Orlando got worse rather than better.
Vince is vastly overrated and a master choker in the clutch. He will not bail out D-12 from any jams when the game is on the line.
Also, he is a defensive liability. In spite of the missed basket in the finals, Courtney Lee was a keeper, on BOTH ends of the court.
Furthermore, the Turk was the guy which made the team click and although I like J-Nelson, I believe that the ball movement created by the offense being channelled through the Turk with Alston as a supporting (explosive/out of control) PG penetrating and launching bombs strangely worked well and will not be replicated with Nelson.
Nelson wants the ball and looked to be the no. 2 guy in the team. I think his absence was good for the Magic since the ball moved better without him: he has a tendency to try things he is not able to do.
Finally, Nelson is also a liability in defense, even more than Alston.
NC Hawks Fan
August 16th, 2009
6:03 pm
Why would there not be an article by the AJC about signing Joe Smith yet? Does everyone at the AJC take off Sat. Nights and Sundays? Come on AJC!!!
I MUS WRITE
August 16th, 2009
6:30 pm
“Trade Evans and Crawford for an Evans upgrade”: KevinA -name that player????. Some of yall are under estimating the effect Crawford will have next season.
darrell starks- STOP IT MAN!!! Championship? Championship??? R U Kiddn me????
Jim Mora sr is sumwhere smiling
gwite
August 16th, 2009
6:59 pm
NC Hawks Fan
August 16th, 2009
6:03 pm
“Why would there not be an article by the AJC about signing Joe Smith yet? Does everyone at the AJC take off Sat. Nights and Sundays? Come on AJC!!!”
Because the actual, physical, “signing”(of a legal contract), has probably not occurred yet.
Probably one of those “agreement in principle” things.
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:16 pm
KevinA
August 16th, 2009
12:24 pm
KevinA
PG
Bibby 30
Teague 10
SG
JJ 37
Crawford 11
SF
Marvin 35
JJ 37
Evans 13
PF
Josh smith 37
Joe Smith 11
Al horford 28
C
No body
ZaZa 20 (no offensem, no finish in paint, extremely high turnover rate for center who doesnt handle the ball. 3 in vertical leap. Slow very slow.)
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:18 pm
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:16 pm
KevinA
August 16th, 2009
12:24 pm
KevinA
PG
Bibby 30
Teague 10
SG
JJ 37
Crawford 11
SF
Marvin 35
JJ 37
Evans 13
PF
Josh smith 37
Joe Smith 11
Al horford 28
C
No body( see power forward list)
ZaZa 20 (no offensem, no finish in paint, extremely high turnover rate for center who doesnt handle the ball. 3 in vertical leap. Slow very slow.)
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:20 pm
Hoops
August 16th, 2009
5:04 pm
Hoops? ZAZA in a running lineup? What is this a special needs event?
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
7:20 pm
I honestly don’t think it’s out of the question that the Hawks get a berth in the East Finals this year.
The Celtics are solid. No two ways about it. They have deep talent and have a coach who uses a deep bench. The addition of Rasheed allows them to rest Garnett frequently if the need arises, and even if one of the “Big Three” goes down for an extended time again, I think they will hardly skip a beat. Under any other coach besides Popovich, a team with such an old and injury-prone leading cast might be headed for trouble. But under Doc, I expect them to win 60 games and cruise through the first two rounds of the playoffs.
I also don’t see how the Magic fail to win at least 50 games, because they simply have too much talent to lose many games to non-contending teams. But they strike me as a team that would not handle adversity well. For one, the subtraction of Hedo will really hurt them against good teams when the offense starts bogging down and they don’t have a 6′10 point forward to give the ball to. In SVG’s offense, that could be a death sentence against strong defensive teams. Also, they might have too many egos under one roof. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some finger-pointing between the coach and the two star players if things go awry. That won’t be enough to knock them lower than 3rd or 4th, I’ll bet, but it might be enough to doom them to an early exit in the playoffs.
But remember that the Cavs were merely a “good” team until last year, when they managed to go through a full season without any major injuries and with LeBron playing out of his mind. Considering that their coach isn’t exactly the brightest bulb on the tree (were they really better off firing Silas?), I wouldn’t be shocked if they regressed towards the mean this year.
So there is an opening for the Hawks to make it deep if everything falls into place – not unlike how things fell into place for the Magic last year. Assuming we do sign Joe Smith, the team is 2 deep at every position, which is more than could be said for some 50-win teams last year.
That’s why the onus is on Woodson now. He no longer has any excuses if the Hawks fall apart in the playoffs again.
The Truth
August 16th, 2009
7:25 pm
Interesting read about Crawford for those that don’t know about his struggles in the NBA. Let’s hope this is the year things turn around for him.
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:25 pm
Coach (Team) Votes: 1st place 2nd place 3rd place Points
Mike Brown (Cavaliers) 55 21 17 355
Rick Adelman (Rockets) 13 24 14 151
Stan Van Gundy (Magic) 13 20 25 150
Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers) 15 14 10 127
George Karl (Nuggets) 11 16 14 117
Jerry Sloan (Jazz) 9 9 6 78
Erik Spoelstra (Heat) 2 8 19 53
MIKE WOODSON!!(Hawks) 1 3 3 17
Phil Jackson (Lakers) 1 3 3 17
Doc Rivers (Celtics) 1 2 4 15
Vinny Del Negro (Bulls) 1 1 1 9
Larry Brown (Bobcats) – 1 3 6
Scott Skiles (Bucks) – - 1 1
Tony DiLeo (Sixers) – - 1 1
Rick Carlisle (Mavericks) – - 1 1
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:27 pm
Coach (Team) Votes: 1st place 2nd place 3rd place Points
Mike Brown (Cavaliers) 55 21 17 355
Rick Adelman (Rockets) 13 24 14 151
Stan Van Gundy (Magic) 13 20 25 150
Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers) 15 14 10 127
George Karl (Nuggets) 11 16 14 117
Jerry Sloan (Jazz) 9 9 6 78
Erik Spoelstra (Heat) 2 8 19 53
MIKE WOODSON!!!(Hawks) 1 3 3 17
Phil Jackson (Lakers) 1 3 3 17
Doc Rivers (Celtics) 1 2 4 15
Vinny Del Negro (Bulls) 1 1 1 9
Larry Brown (Bobcats) – 1 3 6
Scott Skiles (Bucks) – - 1 1
Tony DiLeo (Sixers) – - 1 1
Rick Carlisle (Mavericks) – - 1 1
Hoops
August 16th, 2009
7:28 pm
Truth-serum,
In my humble opinion, the most important part of running the fast break is getting the rebound. The second most important part is making the outlet pass. The quicker the outlet, the better.
I feel like Zaza is one of our better rebounders for the minutes he plays and he passes the ball out rather quick.
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:29 pm
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
7:20 pm
That’s why the onus is on Woodson now. He no longer has any excuses if the Hawks fall apart in the playoffs again.?
He still has no center. You cant compete in the finals with out one. Is there any hater aid left in your cup?
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:31 pm
Hoops
August 16th, 2009
7:28 pm
I dont agree with your opinion, he is not a great rebounder just decent. As for his few good rebounding nights well… even a broke clock is right twice a day?!
Stating the Obvious
August 16th, 2009
7:36 pm
Truth-serum,
F*ck off and go back to your Klan rally, idiot.
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:45 pm
G GS MPG FG% p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Zaza Pachulia 11 1 23.6 .415 .000 .762 2.50 4.40 6.90 .3 .45 .27 1.27 3.60 6.9
Im not calling 6.9 rebound In 24 minutes a good rebounder.Thats about 1 in every 3.5 minutes. Nor am I calling m a calling.41 percent a finisher in the paint. .3 assist means he cant pass and .27 blocks per game well you do the math. For a man who doesnt handle the ball whose purpose is to board and box…defend the post 1.3 turnovers is very high. I could see that for a guard who handles the ball and is defended by some one quick, a good guard with force more that he gives up.
By the way these stats are from ZAZA the continuing turnover playoff record and includes his best game of 18 rebounds against miami…imagine these stats with out that game.
Zaza Pachulia 77 26 19.1 .497 .000 .709 2.20 3.40 5.70 .7 .45 .34 1.18 2.70 6.2
Truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
7:49 pm
Stating the Obvious
August 16th, 2009
7:36 pm
Its nice to have a fan base…what time is does your klan rally begin? With the economy being slow I heard you guys were on the rise…BTW dont mask your name you are a Woody hater and part of the bubba crew…but of course Im Stating the Obvious. You can take your mask off now.
Stating the Obvious
August 16th, 2009
8:08 pm
Not liking Woody = bubba crew? With that kind a racist thinking, you must fit right in with the Klan.
vava74
August 16th, 2009
8:08 pm
Zaza is a good role player.
He has qualities and has faults: that is why he is on the bench.
He is an energy guy who has a good attitude and got a deserved contract to stay with us for a fair amount.
hawks fan 23
August 16th, 2009
8:10 pm
wow guys are you fureal no way has orlando gotten worse there a better team, the will have jameer nelson healthy and the switched vince for hedo. They did loose lee but they added bass, anderson and barnes plus dwight will only improve his offensive. No way can we overtake ant of the big three in the east plus all this talking about chemistry problems( we also have new players) plus they have to many big egos??? i can only name one vince and thats it plus(crawford has some attitude problems as well but we dont talk about that). the truth is that they have a great 11 man team… on the other hand i do this cleveland will not work out because shaq put up good numbers with the suns wo play no defense wat so ever it will be difficult to guard the pick and roll for him and boston is just old…..
Sautee
August 16th, 2009
8:11 pm
truth-serum,
You said this about Zaza: “Im not calling 6.9 rebound In 24 minutes a good rebounder.”
And yet, a few weeks ago when we were arguing Centers on Bradley’s blog, you suggested Darryl Dawkins as an example of the kind of Center we needed.
Irony alert!
Dawkins career totals: 6.1 rebounds per game in 23.7 minutes.
(Zaza 6.9 in 23.6 minutes)
Oh, and Dawkins also made 2.6 turnovers per game.
(Zaza 1.3 TO /Gm – half of Dawkins TOs)
Sounds like Zaza may be better than you thought.
Hoops
August 16th, 2009
8:11 pm
Truth-serum,
Well, well. It looks like all you want to do is argue. I never said that Zaza was a great rebounder. What I said was that I feel that he is one of our better rebounders for the minutes that he plays. I also know that Zaza has really put his heart into the Hawks team and what they are trying to do. He probably could have made it much harder for the Hawks to re-sign him when they were negotigating, but ATL is where he wants to be and the team that he wants to play for. I like a player that puts his heart into his work and his team!
To be very honest with you, I don’t care about your desire to argue with every little statement that people on here have to say. I really like Zaza as a player and as a person. I don’t know him personly but I really felt for him when his home country was being attacked and he was torn about what he should do to help his family. I hope none of us are ever put into that position!
I’m glad we re-signed him and he can play for me!!!
hawkspride
August 16th, 2009
8:19 pm
orlando’s gotten better period look at there squad that should be end of story we have improved but we cant say oh we got 47 wins last year so were gonna get more than 50 this year cause were a better team cause we have to put into a count that the east got a lot better ecpecially the big 3 and toronto and washinton i still think we can be 4th or 5th in the east and make it to the second round doe….
glw
August 16th, 2009
8:20 pm
pg
bibby 26-30 (depending on if his shot is falling)
teague 10-15
crawford 4-6
sg
joe 28
crawford 20
sf
marvin 28-30
joe 6-8
mo 8-10
pf
smoove 30-33
joe smith 10-15
al horf 4-5
center
al 25-28
zaza 20
siler/randmo 2-3 min (when extra big is needed)
kwooden1
August 16th, 2009
8:42 pm
Truth-serum stats can be very deceiving. Sautee just gave one example, there are many others. Zaza’s not the best center, and Yahoo sports classifies him as a PF/C, just like Horford. But as stated many times in this blog, give me a realistic scenario in which we could have obtained a true Center this summer? Clyde makes that point every other day. I would have like to upgrade Zaza also, but Gortat or McDyess were not coming here so who else were you think? (by the way Yahoo Sports classifies them as PF/C too, what true center were you and Clyde thinking of??)
GO HAWKS!!!
Big Ray
August 16th, 2009
8:44 pm
Astro Joe,
I think that’s a pretty fair/good way to judge a season/team/coach (from your 11:32 a.m. post). Very fair indeed, and quite reasonable. Of course, some of us may forget this during our ritualistic in-season complaining (like yours truly
).
Sautee ,
The way I see it, your first assessment (the whole “decent” thing) was fine . The revised version was re fined… ; )
Big Ray
August 16th, 2009
8:47 pm
Kwooden1,
I disagree. Truth serum’s stats aren’t deceiving at all. The stats are simple facts. His use of them is deceiving however. As in, they deceive him into thinking he has an actual argument, or that he’s making sense….
I liked his analogy about the broken clock being right twice a day. I wonder what analogy he has for being wrong every single time you post?
Ariose
August 16th, 2009
8:50 pm
“Crawford started all 65 games he played, but was in the doghouse with Coach Don Nelson after he refused to play after being benched. Once it was clear that the Warriors were out of playoff contention, Nelson benched Crawford in order to play his younger players. Crawford took exception, and refused to play afterwards. Crawford averaged 19.7 points per game in his one and only season with the Warriors.”
Hmmm….Am I the only one botherd by this?…..just a little? A foreshadowing of events to come? As an example Flip Murray(Calm down now, lemme finish lol) has always been a model citizen in the bench, EVEN when he was getting snubbed by Flip suanders, AN EVEN FLIP MURRAY GOT INTO A LITTLE SPAT WITH HEAD COACH MIKE WOODSON.
What will Crawford do if he’s yanked by Woody for bad defense(or something else like poor decision-making)? Will things combust?
Honestly I think not, and Don Nelson is Looney anyway. Once Crawford was traded there, it was clar to everyone that he was their most potenet offesive weapon(on a scrub team…thats important to note) so It is still a mystery to even Warrior fans(I’ve checked their blogs) as to why Nelson treated Crawford that way.
BUT, Their little tiff still happend and Crawford STILL refused to come back into a game(much like Marshmello did in Denver) on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS. Not that i’m worried, because he’s NOT OUR best player BY FAR(Speaking from an offensive AND Defensive toatal package standpoint) and I doubt he can complain about coming out of a game in favor of ANY of our starters or rotation bench players.
But it happend, and it makes me pause…..then again, Al Harrington HATES DON NELSONS GUTS. So maybe I shouldn’t even entertain th incident at all. Besides, WE WIN, and i’m sure Crawford knows we can do it with or WITHOUT his services.
Just food for thought…..
Ariose
August 16th, 2009
8:51 pm
“Crawford started all 65 games he played, but was in the doghouse with Coach Don Nelson after he refused to play after being benched. Once it was clear that the Warriors were out of playoff contention, Nelson benched Crawford in order to play his younger players. Crawford took exception, and refused to play afterwards. Crawford averaged 19.7 points per game in his one and only season with the Warriors.”
Hmmm….Am I the only one botherd by this?…..just a little? A foreshadowing of events to come? As an example Flip Murray(Calm down now, lemme finish lol) has always been a model citizen in the bench, EVEN when he was getting snubbed by Flip suanders, AN EVEN FLIP MURRAY GOT INTO A LITTLE SPAT WITH HEAD COACH MIKE WOODSON.
What will Crawford do if he’s yanked by Woody for bad defense(or something else like poor decision-making)? Will things combust?
Honestly I think not, and Don Nelson is Looney anyway. Once Crawford was traded there, it was clar to everyone that he was their most potenet offesive weapon(on a scrub team…thats important to note) so It is still a mystery to even Warrior fans(I’ve checked their blogs) as to why Nelson treated Crawford that way.
BUT, Their little tiff still happend and Crawford STILL refused to come back into a game(much like Marshmello did in Denver) on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS. Not that i’m worried, because he’s NOT OUR best player BY FAR(Speaking from an offensive AND Defensive toatal package standpoint) and I doubt he can complain about coming out of a game in favor of ANY of our starters or rotation bench players.
But it happend, and it makes me pause…..then again, Al Harrington HATES DON NELSONS GUTS. So maybe I shouldn’t even entertain th incident at all. Besides, WE WIN, and i’m sure Crawford knows we can do it with or WITHOUT his services.
Just food for thought…..”Crawford started all 65 games he played, but was in the doghouse with Coach Don Nelson after he refused to play after being benched. Once it was clear that the Warriors were out of playoff contention, Nelson benched Crawford in order to play his younger players. Crawford took exception, and refused to play afterwards. Crawford averaged 19.7 points per game in his one and only season with the Warriors.”
Hmmm….Am I the only one botherd by this?…..just a little? A foreshadowing of events to come? As an example Flip Murray(Calm down now, lemme finish lol) has always been a model citizen in the bench, EVEN when he was getting snubbed by Flip suanders, AN EVEN FLIP MURRAY GOT INTO A LITTLE SPAT WITH HEAD COACH MIKE WOODSON.
What will Crawford do if he’s yanked by Woody for bad defense(or something else like poor decision-making)? Will things combust?
Honestly I think not, and Don Nelson is Looney anyway. Once Crawford was traded there, it was clar to everyone that he was their most potenet offesive weapon(on a scrub team…thats important to note) so It is still a mystery to even Warrior fans(I’ve checked their blogs) as to why Nelson treated Crawford that way.
BUT, Their little tiff still happend and Crawford STILL refused to come back into a game(much like Marshmello did in Denver) on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS. Not that i’m worried, because he’s NOT OUR best player BY FAR(Speaking from an offensive AND Defensive toatal package standpoint) and I doubt he can complain about coming out of a game in favor of ANY of our starters or rotation bench players.
But it happend, and it makes me pause…..then again, Al Harrington HATES DON NELSONS GUTS. So maybe I shouldn’t even entertain th incident at all. Besides, WE WIN, and i’m sure Crawford knows we can do it with or WITHOUT his services.
Just food for thought…..
Ariose
August 16th, 2009
8:53 pm
Ummmm…..just Read the 8:50 post lol….it’s less confusing.
doc
August 16th, 2009
9:00 pm
ariose put it on you tube for me.
Big Ray
August 16th, 2009
9:03 pm
KevinA ,
I probably echo Nire , but I don’t see the point in trying to project the minutes given to each player. I do see your point though. While I like the idea of Teague getting the kind of minutes that Sekou says he should get, I don’t know how realistic that is. Not to say that Sekou doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but it just might not shake out that way.
Woody really does have the luxury of bringing Teague along slowly, but I don’t want it to go too slowly. We definitely didn’t trade for a guy like Crawford to play him anything less than the minutes Flip got, and probably for more minutes than that. Woody will likely go with some guard-heavy lineups from time to time, and there will be quite a few situations where that will prove to be advantageous (wait, did I spell that right?). I think that Teague’s minutes will be closer to 10 per game than they will 18 per game. And, it will depend on what he shows he can do.
Folks like Astro Joe and yourself have talked much about trading Crawford. It may happen, but I doubt a trade that helps more than it hurts, will develop before the trade deadline. Plus, you want to know what Teague can do before you make such a move. And since we’re not likely to re-sign Flip, why be in a hurry to trade away a guy who can be a solid backup for JJ and even good enough to replace Bibby whenever needed. No, Crawford doesn’t bring all the same things Bibby does, but with JJ’s abilities, he’s not a bad backcourt mate.
So, if Crawford is to be trade bait at any time during the year, Teague must show that he’s a worthy backup to Bibby, who by the way isn’t exactly an iron man of the NBA. He’s not injury prone per se, but you never know….Personally, I’d not take the chance on moving Crawford unless three things were well known:
1)Teague is ready to play and contribute some serious minutes. And Woody has to trust him for this to even be possible. Can a rookie earn that kind of trust from Woody?
2)Whomever Crawford is traded for will end up helping the team more (and in better ways) than Crawford would. This can be both tricky and deceiving. If we sign Joe Smith, then what could you trade Crawford for that actually makes us better? Think realistically, we are NOT getting a bonafide starting center that’s bigger than Horford, in a trade for Crawford….unless we’re trading someone else of value along with him. Like I said, this can be tricky, and could go in a number of directions. Let’s not explore that at the moment.
3)We sign another pg who can play. Astro Joe I believe was the first to say that he wanted a pass-first veteran pg. I’ll add “defensive mentality” or “defensively capable/solid” to that description. If we sign a guy like that, then trading Crawford makes more sense. But you still have to be adding something that is more beneficial. Crawford provides another sure-thing scorer to the roster. How do you replace that? It would be easier if one (preferrably two or three) of the existing starters stepped up and became that 2nd and 3rd sure-fire offensive threats. But we can’t be sure of that right now.
Ariose
August 16th, 2009
9:08 pm
HICKS AND KLAN MEMBERS!!!!
….CHILL OUT
Kevin, it’s really not a big deal. Mo will play the same amount of minutes he played last season. JJ took some of his backup SF minutes last season as well.
Also, BIBBY will play less minutes. I think he will play 30(which is around his carrer avg. or have you all forgotten about how Bobby Jackson was arguably better than Bibby on any given night in his heyday).
That’s 18 minutes for Teauge. Which is Good, the less minutes Bibby plays, the less of a liability he is on the defensive end, besides, Adleman knew his defense wasn’t that great, that’s why Bobby Jackson played so much. Teauge contrary to media belief, is a good defender with a huge wingspan and off the charts athletic ability(I will say he will eventually be a better defender than Flip once he gets used to the NBA game)
With the Adition of Joe Smith, Smoove AND Horford will see a decrease in MPG this season. Horford won’t play the PF position as much(unless there is just a huge PF like Sheed or Garnett) and Smooves PF minutes will be cut down by Joe Smith. They should both go sown to about 30 MPG as well. Maybe 32MPG for Al because Zaza is clumbsy and can be a liability if left to his own vices at times.