Another Joe, another Smith?
Foes a year ago, Josh (left) and Joe Smith (no relation) will team up on the Hawks' suddenly improved frontline this season.
HAWKSVILLE - There’s room in the Hawks’ locker room for another Joe. And certainly enough room for another Smith.
And if the early reports are true, ESPN’s Ric Bucher reported it first Friday afternoon, veteran power forward Joe Smith will indeed be joining the clan in the ‘ville on a one-year deal, possibly as early as this week.
The Hawks aren’t confirming or denying anything, per their policy on all free agent matters this summer. Sources indicate that Smith has indeed agreed to join the team but that no deal has been finalized yet and nothing has been signed. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that barring a last-minute catastrophe, this deal is going to get done.
It’s the answer to many questions for the Hawks up front. Smith is the veteran, spot up shooter, rebounder, locker room leader and wise voice for youngsters Josh Smith and Al Horford (in particular) the Hawks have been looking for. His addition will give the Hawks a solid two-deep depth chart up and down the lineup, leaving three to four roster spots up for grabs for the likes of Randolph Morris, Garret Siler, Othello Hunter and whoever else shows for training camp.
Josh Smith, Horford and Zaza Pachulia will be happiest about the elder Smith joining the fray. They need the assistance, on every front. They were without a veteran assist last season, a deficiency that was magnified during the playoffs against Joe Smith’s old team (Cleveland), which disposed of the Hawks in four games in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
A versatile 6-10, 225-pounder, Smith plays bigger than his listed size. He always has, dating back to his days at Maryland, when he dominated the competition on his way to becoming the No. 1 pick in the 1995 NBA draft. This is yet another summertime coup for the Hawks, who have bargained shopped their way back to the fourth spot on the Eastern Conference food chain behind Cleveland, Boston and Orlando (last year’s order but not necessarily the pecking order for this season). Seriously, for all the cash spent in other places, the Hawks used a prudent, cost-conscious approach to bring back the core of a 47-win team, while also adding two key veterans in Smith (pending the completion of his deal) and Jamal Crawford, not to mention promising rookie in point guard Jeff Teague.
Joe Smith isn’t an acquisition on the level of Rasheed Wallace (Boston), Shaquille O’Neal (Cleveland), Vince Carter (Orlando) or even Hedo Turkoglu (Toronto) for that matter. But he’s exactly what the Hawks needed at a position of critical importance. He’s also a fantastic insurance policy at an even better price, should injuries to Smith, Horford or even Marvin Williams become a factor the way they did last season, when all three of the Hawks’ young frontcourt studs missed considerable time last season with injuries.
So with basically all the heavy lifting done now, how do you rate the Hawks’ summer to this point? Good, bad or something else?
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519 comments Add your comment
Ariose
August 15th, 2009
9:38 pm
Ken, Lol well maybe it was just Dos Hwkis. I agree with ehat you’re saying though. I understand flip isn’t coming back. He’s a combo guard, but now we’ve got a legit PG and SG so theres no need.
I just dont want Flip to got to Miami or Philly. Those tow seem to have our number from time to time….
Ramon, Huh? I said wha? Bang who? lol. I think you were responding to someone else lol.
RICH
August 15th, 2009
9:41 pm
Trade Rand Mo for a second round pick 2010 if we can. Sign Siler give him his time to develop ( We gave Rand MO his shot last yea) , We should look for the best two pf coming out of training camp maybe Hunter and Green . Sorry when Mario wouldn’t shoot in the playoff games , I just thought he wasn’t worth keeping on the end of the bench.
macaroni tony
August 15th, 2009
9:45 pm
I ready to see how the rest of the roster will fill out. I would like Siler, Flip, and Hunter to fill out the last three of 14 spots. I don’t think that we will have 15 spots this year. I hope RandMo learns how to bang this year, then I will have more faith in him.
stevo
August 15th, 2009
9:49 pm
ha. nice to see ariose finally admit what we all knew about salim all along.
dos hawkquis
August 15th, 2009
10:30 pm
I think that as a blognation, we should reevaluate our assessment of one, Michael J. Woodson. I have.
1.He was right on Salim, Acie, and Royal Ivey. He let these guys go and they aren’t doing anything with any other teams. I think that they say Acie is out-of-shape and is Salim still in the league? (SORRY ARIOSE).
2.He always said that he needed veterans: Bibby, Flip were the vets who were added that made the difference in the Hawks past 2playoff runs. I am sure that Joe Smith and Crawford will be just as valuable to us this yr. He missed on Speedy, but he made up with Anthony Johnson and T-Lue. These vets held their own in Woodson’s scheme of things.
3.He was at the helm when we went from 13, 26, 30, 37, 47 wins in the ‘04, ‘05, ‘06, ‘07, and ‘08 season, respectively. I feel that we can get 55 wins this year, if we stay healthy!! When you look at this in print, it is REALLY impressive. He constantly improved in the wins column, with an especially young team.
4.He put pressure on himself in the 07-08 season by saying that “We needed to make the playoffs,” after a 9 year drought. They did it, pushing Boston to the brink. He followed that up with “We need to get a 4th seed and make it to the 2nd round,” which they did in the 08-09.
5.Marvin, JSmoove, and JJ have been together for 4years. They have seen the growth and development, so they have to believe Woodson’s philosophy.
6.I applaud the Hawks management for sticking with Woody during the 13, 26, and 30 win season, especially. It would have been so easy to fire him.
I was not particularly a Woody fan. I would curse and hurl insults at him just like KEN STRICKLAND. But it is very hard to argue with statistics. The Hawks are the only team in the league to have had 5 years of continuous increase in wins total.
GO HAWKS!! HANG IN THEIR WOODSON.
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”
niremetal
August 15th, 2009
11:00 pm
Sautee,
Sund did exactly what he SHOULD have done this summer. We are only ecstatic because we are used to a less efficient way of doing things.
Finally, we have competence. Woo hoo.
Not to be snarky, but check out this page, which lists all of this year’s offseason transactions:
http://hoopshype.com/market_center.htm
…and tell me what GMs have done “exactly what they should have done” this summer. Because if that measure is tied to “making transactions that directly address the team’s weaknesses” or some other obvious measure of success, I’d say you’d be hard pressed to name 10 GMs in the league who are “competent” by that standard.
Looking at that page – which forces you to consider the subtractions with the additions – I’d say the Hawks have had one of the 3-4 best offseasons in the NBA. So if the measure is relative to other teams rather than a non-relative “addressing needs” measure, again I think you’ll be hard-pressed to name more than a handful of GMs more “competent” than Sund.
What qualifies as “excellent” if addressing needs and making smart additions without losing anything of value is merely “competent?”
Sekou Smith
August 15th, 2009
11:08 pm
rainman, I’ll try and give you some quick answers to your questions without bogging the blog down with my yapping:
Q – Ownership – How and when do you see this issue being resolved once and for all? Assuming the ‘Spirit’ aquires uncontested control of the Hawks, do you feel they have the money, desire, and competency to build a championship franchise?
A — Before the month is out. I expect a verdict to come down basically any day. As for part two, I’m sure the desire is there and they are more than competent business people (or else they wouldn’t be in a position to own a team). That said, the Hawks aren’t going to spend like LA, Boston, Orlando and Cleveland. It’s not going to happen. They’re not playing with that kind of Monopoly money, and in truth, most teams in the league are not playing with that kind of cash.
Q – Do you think Woody can be an upper-echelon NBA coach?
A — Don’t know for sure what upper-echelon entails outside of owning a title or a win total in the Jerry Sloan, George Karl neighborhood. I think this is a huge year for Woody for lots of reasons, mostly because the roster will be about as sturdy as it’s been during his tenure. This is the year we find out if he can manipulate an entire team into playing at another level.
Q – How would you project the development of Al Horford and Josh Smith over the next two years?
A — They’re both going to continue to get better. If they keep working hard, they have at least three more years of climbing to do before worrying about any physical decay. Skills can always be improved but they’re only young for so long.
Q – Your opinion on Teague, and how you see the minutes at point guard divvied up this season. Will Crawford play significant minutes at point?
A — Teague has a chance to be a steal on the level of Jameer Nelson, for where he was picked in the draft. He needs at least 14-18 minutes a night as a rookie, at least, and I expect him to get that. Crawford could play some minutes there, but if everyone stays healthy the Hawks won’t need him as much there.
Q – Should we have a ‘hack a Shaq’ set ready when we face the dominate centers? Let Siler or Morris use their 6 fouls in a rotation with Al and Zaza.
A — No. There are only a handful of “dominant” centers to face in the league these days.
Q – Your opinion on the situation with JJ. When do you think the best time to negotiate an extension would be? What do you think would be ‘fair’ in terms of years and dollars?
A — Super smart move to try and lock him up now. This is the right time. And fair has nothing to do with it. You are worth whatever a team is willing to pay you in the NBA. Plain and simple.
Hope that helps.
Ariose
August 15th, 2009
11:25 pm
o_0 Stevo?? Where in Gds name have you been? Lurking?
Back during the 07-08 season we could’ve used Stoudamire in cretain situations….that sill hasn’t changed.
Ariose
August 15th, 2009
11:26 pm
Dominican Republic wins over Puerto Rico in basketball:
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/sports/2009/8/15/32931/Dominican-Republic-wins-over-Puerto-Rico-in-basketball
Horford sure is staying busy aint he? lol.
Mystikal
August 15th, 2009
11:27 pm
At worst, I think Siler could be what Kendrick Perkins is for Boston. And I believe Siler is a little more inclined offensively. Perkins wasn’t jack before he got a chance to play with Garnett. Maybe eventually we’ll get a chance to see how he looks playing next to Horford or Smoove. Ya never know, anything can happen in this league!!
Ariose
August 15th, 2009
11:30 pm
Nice Answers Sekou, Good to hear The judge will be Ruling on the Appraisal issue with the Spirit any day now.
MannyT
August 15th, 2009
11:43 pm
For all you bargain hunters, Joe Smith is a 10+ yr vet. WIth that level of experience a minimum NBA contract is just over 1.3 mil.
@ATCQ-I’d imagine that a vet with a positive rep that is willing to take the minimum has choices. Smith may be the first unrestricted player of any noteworthy level to come here from another team in about 15 years. That’s part of why this is a significant step for the Hawks.
@niremetal, the caption to that pic should have referenced Biedrins Latvian drinking skills which kept the red out his eyes in that pic (compared to the others.)
@sekou, kudos to the AJC folks that put your twitter stream next to the blog. Makes lots of sense to keep the hardcore on the AJC page instead of the twitter page.
@JSS–I wish the AJC did have a blog for the other sports…especially in the summer. There is no comparison that there is more track, golf, gymnastics action this weekend than hoops. I love basketball, but reruns of old games are not my thing.
@Ariose–I guess we needed these games before free agency so Horford could have talked Charlie V into coming here for 40% of his value
Gotta run…need to setup the free showings of Logan’s Run for all these healthcare debates
BWAF
Ken Strickland
August 15th, 2009
11:49 pm
DOSHAWKQUIS-With as many high 1st rd picks as Woodson’s had, including several lottery picks, any HC should be able to increase his win total annually when he starts out with only 13 wins.
The question is, can he design an OFF that takes full advantage of the talent of his players. Can he utilize proper strategy and effectively utilize his bench, while managing his players mins. If he can’t accomplish any on these things, we’ll never become a title contender.
Mitch C
August 15th, 2009
11:51 pm
Seems like a decent acquistion. Hope we can get him. If the Hawks stay healthy, they should be able to win 50 + games and become one of the top three in the East.
Mitch
Mystikal
August 15th, 2009
11:54 pm
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE SEKOU!!!
So far as you know, what are we looking at to finish the roster, maybe another big and backup small forward? I believe that would put us @ 13 players, which is what we’ll likely go with, correct?
And know you’ve probably seen bout much of him as we have, but do you think Garrett Siler could be similar to Kendrick Perkins? Maybe even better? From what I’ve seen he picks things up quickly and actually has a drive to get better, which counts for a lot.
Smush
August 16th, 2009
12:06 am
Anybody hear what Josh Smith has been up to this summer? We know if he is working on post moves, ball-handling, man defense, shooting?
JSS
August 16th, 2009
12:09 am
Just waking up, Manny T, from your keyboard to some Editors ears… I just don’t think they get it… It is why we haven’t host anything of importance since 1996… 1st Republica Dominica, What’s next, the Haitians becoming a B-Ballin’ Caribbean superpower? Have people stopped jumping off of the San Juan fortress yet? Good for DR!!! I just the two men paid the big dollars actually wrote about something while they are laying on their couch besides the obvious… Time to get a walk in before it gets and hot and the crowds get out trying to into the parks, you wouldn’t believe how crowded the paths get here…
Guys don’t put the cart before the horse on Woodrow (AKA Steve Harvey lite). He is like his mentors Robert Knight and Larry Brown, they morph their systems to suit them… Knight 76 was definitely not Knight 1981… The Larry Brown that took UCLA to the championship game in 80 with a 7 man rotation was not the one who rode defense and a overhyped Danny Manning to the NCAA championship… We definitely see the influence on Woody from Brown’s time in Philly in ISO Joe (AKA ISO AI)… It will be interesting to see what kind of hybrid this evolves…
Peace….
Big Ray
August 16th, 2009
12:12 am
I sure hope the Joe Smith deal gets done. I’m as excited about the effect he can have on Josh and Al, as much as I am about having a quality vet to fill one of our weakest spots. I hope Josh really listens to him. I KNOW Horford will….
For those concerned with the “JJ hating”, don’t worry. The very first play in which Josh Smith makes a mistake, JJ will be off the hook. You can rest easy, it’s just break time for the Smoove, Woody, Sund, Sekou, AJC, Crawford, and whoever else haters….
JSS
August 16th, 2009
12:12 am
Again, I need to start proofing stuff
“I just WISH the two men who get paid the big bucks…”
Big Ray
August 16th, 2009
12:14 am
Smush,
I heard Marvin was working on his ball-handling. I don’t know about Smith. Besides, there’s no point in knowing what or where he’s been getting his offseason work in at or with. No matter what he does in the offseason, somebody is going to say they’d rather see him focus on something else…
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
12:23 am
MannyT,
Score on the caption
.
This was the winning entry according to Skeets:
For once in my life I felt powerful, there on the dance floor. The thrum of the music, the heat of the crowd and the peach schnappes in my blood gave me energy, confidence, pure masculine fury. The sea of humanity parted and two women, nay, angels of the dance, appeared before me. One golden as the summer, the other dark as the side of something that has no light on it. They were mine to have, and their eyes fairly spoke aloud as if to say, ‘Hey, we totally have no problem with your having of us.’ But then HE appeared. European. Dangerous. His body was a tall, stone fortress bracing for the inevitable feminine siege. It took only a brief look — a mere hint of expression on his otherwise impassive face — and the subtlest of gestures. And then they were his. Alas.
Meh. Not bad. I liked the “dark as the side of something that has no light on it” bit (although I’d have put some ellipses after “as” for comic effect). I liked the runner up better:
Tsk tsk, Latvian gang symbols. What is wrong with players today?
I was thinking of something along these lines:
Somehow, the tall Latvian had managed to blend in with the crowd all night. But when a fellow party-goer pointed a camera towards two girls standing nearby, Biedrins’s childhood love for ruining photographs took over.
or…
Andris Biedrins attempts to set a new world record for “longest distance covered to give bunny ears in a photograph.” Sadly, no Guinness recordkeeper was present.
chuck
August 16th, 2009
2:40 am
I’m not a fan of the NBA or the Hawks but I’m impressed with how they have handled their offseason needs.
tjhook
August 16th, 2009
2:58 am
People keep dismissing the importance of returning Flip Murray to the roster, but what has Jamal Crawford done at the point guard position? Crawford is a scorer, not a distributor and he’s going to have trouble setting up the frontcourt for touches when he’s working to put the ball in the basket.Flip understood how to penetrate and dish or at least to draw the defense with his shooting or driving ability.
Finally, who expects Bibby to play 82 games?! And when Bibby goes down, who is going to handle Atlanta’s offense? Not Teague but people know Flip’s offensive mindset and can respond with determination on what to do. Sign Flip because injuries happen and he really does a great job getting an offense going when he comes off a bench.
sillent
August 16th, 2009
4:16 am
WE’VE GONE THIS FAR WHY NOT GO FOR BROKE!! (THE CHEAP WAY)
Mike Bibby/Jeff Teague/Crawford
Joe Johnson/Jamal Crawford/Mario West/Green
Marvin Williams/Maurice Evans/Gerald Green or Rodney Carney/Smith
Josh Smith/Joe Smith/ Stromile Swift
Al Horford/ Zaza Pachulia/ Randolph Morris/Garrett Siler
Most people forget Gerald Green came straight out of high school and it even took Kobe/Tracy awhile in the league before they blossomed. All you need is the right situation and with a team full of young veterans such as ours Gerald can blossom from peer pressure. At worst he is a good three point shooter and a great athlete that can play the two/three and backup Marvin if we want to play a tall point/forward line-up to elude the defense (Crawford/JJ/Green or Crawford/Green/Evans). We can always use another shooter/scorer. JJ can be a mentor once he gets of age or Green can be a cheaper insurance policy if JJ decides not to sign.
Rodney Carney can shoot threes and has a good defensive game. He could also blossom in the right situation and can play the 2/3 position as well.
Stromile Swift may be a one or 2 trick pony but if those tricks could be rebounding and defending that maybe the one or two tricks we need. He has the athletic ability to be pretty good at it and could spare minutes for Josh and Al. He would also be a good offensive/defensive compliment when he is on the court with Joe Smith/Zaza.
Garrett Siler as many acknowledge is at worst a functional big body. It’s hard not to atleast give him a try.
All in all chemistry is not necessarily an issue because our core is the bulk of the team and everyone is pretty much locked up with pretty good contracts. Green,Carney, and Swift are still pretty talented pieces and could be used as trade bait if they do not work out so we won’t have to worry about trading most of our core to get a missing piece(If needed) in return. Looking at Sund’s recent big trades(Gary Payton/Desmond Mason for Ray Allen in his prime and Acie Law/Craig Claxton for Jamal Crawford) he might be able to get some pretty good pieces for all this talent.
Of course we’d only be able(if at all) to get 2 of these three maybe Stromile and either Green/Carney but it would still be good added depth to our team(Shooter/Shot Blocker).Extreme competition in practice and hard work to get in or stay in the 12 man rotation and even that much more to be part of the 10 man rotation. I’m confident in Teague but if he doesn’t pan out early or(before I say this I’m not wishing injuries on none of our players) if one of our point guards get injured Crawford can move down and so on and so on. We would have movable pieces at every position to deal with the long season and Woody will at least look smart with his rotations because their is all most no way he can mess it up.
p.s. I know I said all this but to sum up the original topic the Joe Smith move is a pretty good move it gives us a 10 man rotation as of now it’s just hard not to be a fan and dream of more when you see we are so close(Give us an inch we’ll take a mile). Good job Billy for constructing the core of this team and great Sund for keeping this core intact and adding most of the correct pieces to go along with our core. Miss Ya Childress hope u come back (He would compliment a playoff team really well wouldn’t he and I loved the way he made my favorite player’s ill advised 3’s or air balls look like passes ).Thank you Flip for being the heart of this team at times. Miss you Solo hope everything goes well. No hard feelings Acie hope the deal turns out best for you and Jamal.
collegeballfan
August 16th, 2009
7:55 am
Doesn’t matter who it is – if the coach doesn’t give him more than 8 minutes a game it will be a waste.
Bleu_Bayou42
August 16th, 2009
8:04 am
SS,
Are the Hawks going to sign Flip Murray for 2009-10?
Sekou Smith
August 16th, 2009
8:21 am
I do not believe that will happen Bayou42. I’d love to be wrong on this one. But I do not believe that is in the cards.
UGASlobberknocker
August 16th, 2009
8:58 am
The Hawks are making some nice moves given their lack of finances.It is a nice contrast to the Thrashers situation a couple of years ago when they made the playoffs but then these same owner yokels didnt do anything to improve the team..or even to keep it at the same level. The result is now the Thrashers are among the worst teams in the NHL and among the worst in attendance. That is not a coincidence.
So, Go Hawks!!!! BUT, Hey Spirit owners: You have a hockey team, too!!! .Do something soon or sell the team. Otherwise we may be looking at the Hamilton Thrashers or the Kansas City Thrashers ..
What is going to happen this year is that fans now will likely do as I will; pay to go see the Hawks but watch the Thrashers on TV until the owners get serious.
Doug
August 16th, 2009
9:06 am
tjhook is the latest of a impressively large segment of folks on this board who WAY overvalue Flip Murray. What has J Crawford done at point??? Identifying Flip as a DISTRIBUTOR!!! Look at there career stats…Not only does Crawford more than double him up in assists he has a better assist-to ratio. Flip is a career 8 ppg guy…he is not in great or even good demand…because most coaches will not allow him to monopolize the ball as much as Woody did while with Hawks.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 16th, 2009
9:24 am
WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO ADD A VETERAN FOR THE VETERAN MINIMUM? WE HAVE 6 MILLION UNTIL WE HIT THE LUXURY TAX. SIGN THE FREAKING GUY ALREADY
MY GOD
WCJ
August 16th, 2009
9:24 am
Good move, now if Garret Siler can make the team or the hawks sign another big men, this team will be a force.
rainman
August 16th, 2009
9:25 am
Thanks for the answers Sekou – I still can’t pin you down on what you would pay JJ if it was your decision to make.
Primetime is retired,
August 16th, 2009
9:26 am
I am not a Joe Smith fan either but he may plug in the missing peices, I still like Flip cause we are in it to win it. I think Siler can be effective for DEFENSE and taking up the space. Get a BIG man’s coach and he will be fine.
doc
August 16th, 2009
9:54 am
dos, glad you are around, sensible stuff. seems i have less to say because i would just end up re-stating your comments. this will be a test year for woody of how he handles a team, now with expectation. though many have misinterpreted my comments on woody for being negative ones i have been fairly balanced in my acknowledgment of the growth of some players and how they never seemed to quit on him. his coaching from the sidelines and his quibbles with players have been mentioned as well.
woody has it on his shoulders now. as far as woody not being extended now, players usually play out their contracts then re-negotiate except for the creame de la creame. that philosophy holds for coaches as well. unless i am missing something woody has not become a top 5 coach yet to fall into that category.
those that make snide remarks about joe smith forget he made those numbers on the team with the best record in the league last year. he is a tremendous upgrade over solo. so what is the point, to continue to be negative? to think by stating it isnt a championship roster you have said something of value or import? guess what? there is only going to be one of those anyway so by saying it 32 times for 32 teams you can appear right as rain but sound dumb as nails to those simply observing.
still shake my head at anyone who is the least bit perturbed over this off season that is still not done. my boy rick has done a huge job getting across a philosophy of team culture. he stated it at the beginning and has followed through. i like that in a person who follows his talk with action that is consistent with the words. man anyone to complain of keeping the nucleus together that might still leave room for horford, pulled in crawford, smith and teague to replace flip, solo and acie has some loose screws.
dos i agree we could be in the mid 50’s now. i also think we might surprise one of the big three above us if they get lazy or have some injuries. the celts peaked last year unless kg comes back 100%, the magic have a new team, and the cavs did not really blow us out last year when even strength and we are better. not sure shaq does the same for them. we will see if he can do a bill russell and win one on his last legs. just the same, i dont think anyone behind us did anything for closing the gap to be ahead of us at the end of the season. we sure didnt throw up on ourselves the way the wiz did in the off season last year as the former number four. aint that right richie?
Sautee
August 16th, 2009
10:41 am
nire,
About this: “What qualifies as “excellent” if addressing needs and making smart additions without losing anything of value is merely “competent?”
OK, he did an excellent job of being competent.
Happy?
Seriously, I’m glad that he has done what he has, BUT back in June, THIS is what we all HOPED he would do.
My wife gets on me all the time for using the term “decent” as a compliment.
Maybe that explains a lot to you, or maybe not.
Believe me, I KNOW it could have gone another way. But still, he did his job.
That’s how I see it. He did his job.
Now if Woody would do HIS job, we’d all be happy.
JAY
August 16th, 2009
11:16 am
“BIG” If they sign him and big Siler.
Anakin Joe
August 16th, 2009
11:32 am
The “Elite 3″ won 59+ regular season games last season. And all three improved themselves (at least for the regular season). There was a 12 game gap between the Hawks and the Elite 3 last season. Have we closed that gap some based on this summer’s activities? Maybe. Have we closed it by 12 wins? Doubtful.
IMO, the way to judge this team and coach will not be in total wins but certain “diagnostic measures”. Things like margin of victory (can we put teams away and allow our end of bench to get more time), road victories (20 at a minimum), record against conference elite (likely second round opponents) and record in those 4 games in 5 nights series (where a team’s depth and a coach’s substitution decisions are tested). If we win 50 games by winning 3 more home games, that would feel a little less than satisfying (especially if we have better health in the front court). But if we win only 48 games with more wins against the elite teams and with a better margin of victory, that would feel like we “kicked it up a notch”. And it would also feel like we’re ready to compete in a second round post-season.
KevinA
August 16th, 2009
11:55 am
Sekou Smith thinks,
Teague has a chance to be a steal on the level of Jameer Nelson, for where he was picked in the draft. He needs at least 14-18 minutes a night as a rookie, at least, and I expect him to get that. Crawford could play some minutes there, but if everyone stays healthy the Hawks won’t need him as much there.
At the risk of being labeled a Crawford hater lets crunch a couple of numbers. If Teague plays at the high end of Sekou’s estimation that leaves Bibby with 30 min. (last year he averaged 35).
Lets assume for the sake of argument that JJ min are cut to 35. That leaves 13. To get any more meaningful minutes for Crawford would take moving JJ to the 3 spot when Marvin needs a rest. That would give Crawford 13 more, a total of 36.
Can a Crawford/Bibby or a Crawford/Teague be effictive defensivly? Baring injury would we ever see Evans off the bench?
For the Flip fans why not let Flip fill 13 min for 2 mil and trade Evans and Crawford for an Evans upgrade. The upgrade could be done for much less 11.5 mil we would be trying to dump. (the 2.5 for Evans and the 9 mil for Crawford).
With Flip in the house playing 13 min,it seems to me the weak spot would be Evans.
It is not Crawford hating to at least suggest another direction. And Sund did a great job trading for Crawford. That was never the issue.
truth-serum
August 16th, 2009
12:02 pm
Any furor over Vick’s signing has not stopped the NFL marketing machine. Vick’s new Eagles’ jersey — available in white, black or midnight green — was available on the league’s Web site for $259.99.
darrell starks
August 16th, 2009
12:11 pm
Sekou joe smith is on every post pic. what up with that i guess he is the next coming of michael jordan.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 16th, 2009
12:14 pm
If we sign joe smith we will win and nba title mark my word.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 16th, 2009
12:15 pm
The hawks are the best.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Doug
August 16th, 2009
12:18 pm
Kevin A: The Hawks are NOT SIGNING Flip…nor should they even think about it as the roster is presently constructed. Thank God Sund has more sense than some on this board whose infatuation with Flip is incredible…even the scenario you paint is ludicrous…trade Crawford-Evans for a Evans upgrade…who??? Why??? You have a very strong roster…Crawford-Smith-Pachulia-Mo-Teague will rival virtually and 2nd five in the league.
KevinA
August 16th, 2009
12:24 pm
I think it would be interesting to see how the blog thinks all the minutes will be dispersed. I will go first.
PG
Bibby 30
Teague 10
Crawford 8
SG
JJ 37
Crawford 11
SF
Marvin 35
Evans 13
PF
Josh 37
Joe Smith 11
C
Al 28
ZaZa 20
FlashGordon
August 16th, 2009
12:40 pm
I like this deal! We need a strong front line in the East.
KevinA
August 16th, 2009
12:40 pm
Doug,
I don’t think Flip is incredible. I do think he is great value for 2 mil. Even if you don’t think we need an Evans upgrade we may need the money to resign JJ and Al.
I agree with you our second unit looks good. Give me your break down of how the minutes will be given out by Woody. If Teague plays much like Sekou suggests where does Crawford get his minutes. If Crawfords minutes are below 20 he just seems very expensive. If you agree he is very expensive why would you not entertain the idea of a different direction.
I understand my ideas are not always like others including yours. That does not make them ludicrous.
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
12:48 pm
KevinA,
You’re not giving JJ any minutes at SF or Horford at PF, where each played a good 7-10 minutes per game last year. I guarantee you that there will be times during every game where Woody will want Teague/Bibby-Crawford-JJ on the floor at the same time, same as there were lots of Bibby-Flip-JJ lineups last year.
niremetal
August 16th, 2009
12:53 pm
I’m not going to post my minutes projections because I don’t think that’s a useful exercise (beyond it showing why there’s no room for Flip). My point is simply that the lineups are going to be much more fluid than any listed projection.
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2009
12:54 pm
DOC-is that your idea of not having much to say? However, you did say it very well.
ANAKIN JOE-the elite 3 did improve themselves, on paper, much like everyone thought Philly did last yr when they signed EBrand. It seems that in Orlando’s case, everyone but me seems to be judging their alledged improvement based exclusively on what they’ve added, and totally dismissed what they lost. Also, with the assumed improvement of most of last yrs Eastern Confrence playoff teams, the elite 3 won’t likely win as many gms as last yr due to that broad improvement.
We will definitely be improved enough to take over the #3 seed from Orlando. It’s not like they dominated us in our 4 regular season gms the way Cleveland did in the playoffs. In our 4 meetings they won 3 of 4, winning 2gms by 4 and 6pts respectively, with one blowout and one season opening loss. With the Hawks returning their top 6 players, they will be a model of consistency and chemistry, with improvement from within, along with key upgrades to our bench. Orlando will be a model of transition, since they have to change their system to accomodate 3 new starters, and RLewis will be out for part of the season. This situation will also create a lack of chemistry(starting the season with 4 new starters, 3 being new to the team) and a possible lack of consistency(caused by all of the above).
So ANAKIN JOE, we won’t likely improve enough to overtake the top 3, but we can certainly overtake Orlando at #3.
doc
August 16th, 2009
1:06 pm
sautee, are you saying then jonathan byrd was “decent” because he did his job. i thought he did a fantastic job but in the context of what you just said, he was supposed to do that; so, i guess i might reframe it to “decent”. now i can hear me going up to him after the show and saying “hey jonathan, i am a friend of sautee’s and i just want you to know you did a decent job there”. guess you didnt exactly do that ether, did you? or maybe even worse, “jonathan you three guys were competent tonight”. heh heh doubt i’d get invited back stage nor get an autograph. also i know your vocabulary can be stretched a whole lot further than that, the wordsmith you are.
kevin, who is this evans you are talking about? heh heh, man you talk about being lost in the fervor of the off season, mo might be a suit regular. and yes you are going to see jj very effective at the three position this year as that might have been his best position last year for the team based on nba 82 games summaries. that is what makes this thing so much fun looking forward; teague grows up quick and is the distributor, defender and penetrator we think he can be, crawford at 2, jj at 3, joe smith at 4, zaza at 5 not bad for filling some minutes by your subs. doubt much firepower lost there with four subs in the game. that might be a very effective offensive/defensive team especially against most teams second team players.
woody will have a lot of flexibility this year. let us hope he has a better way of using his flexible line up as sautee of using his flexible and vast vocabulary by describing “doing your job” remarkably well as decent or competent. yawn, mundane dude.
aj, i think we will win a few more against the elite three, closing the gap and kick some azzes of some of the down trodden teams allowing woody to rest starters. for example the lineup i gave is reasonable one with four subs in it solidified by jj at the three.
now what more can sund do to allow us to see astro back? you sure you didnt put on your favorite andro uniform as the off season began.
aj, btw as a braves aside, i am liking, finally, what i see in the bravos as they now have ballplayers and not soft gilded ones pretending to play. hanson not being here at the start of the season hurt. cox sticking with johnson too long hurt and not having enough ball players playing ball hurt like infante’s injury and frenchy’s head and an over matched center fielder.
i prefer ballplayers to stars any day, reggie was both, morgan and bench were both, sad to say few stars today are both, jeter is the ultimate one, giambi or alex the ultimate NOT.
finally, i think the worst trade in the last three years that led to a huge crumble effect was that of trading away adam laroach, another ball player. it was a colossal mistake as gonzalez was hurt and a vacuum was created in the daily order. i would have not done that deal as there was nothing to replace it with and they found out to only have to mortgage everything to texas to fix their own stupid mistake. he will not last longer than this season but if kept he would have kept them from leaking in too many other areas. it may be a case of too little too late, hanson alone might have made up four games in the standing by now. never could understand why the bolggosphere at ajc never liked the roach. now maybe they will get it as he leads the team back with some power not seen this year.