The gang’s all here!
With the starting five (plus a few more) back and under contract for the foreseeable future, the Hawks have at least given themselves a fighting chance to compete with the big boys (photo courtesy of my main man and former AJC photographer Pouya Dianat).
HAWKSVILLE - If continuity means anything in the NBA these days, the Hawks have done right by their own this summer.
Marvin Williams touched on it last week during a conversation we had the day before he signed his new contract, and again this afternoon in a teleconference with the media to discuss his new deal. A day after my initial talk with Williams, Al Horford and I discussed continuity briefly while he took a break from his work with the Basketball Without Borders program.
Dating back to last summer and extending all the way through training camp this year, the Hawks (if they can come to terms with captain and All-Star Joe Johnson on an extension) will have spent millions to keep their core in place for the foreseeable future.
“I think management is making the commitment to keep us together,” Williams said Tuesday. “And each year we’ve gotten better.”
Josh Smith’s $58 million deal was the first domino, albeit an offer sheet from Memphis to the restricted free agent power forward last summer that the Hawks matched before the ink was dry on the offer sheet. That swift move was followed up this summer with deals for Mike Bibby (3-years, $18 million), Zaza Pachulia (4-years, $19 million) and Williams (5-years, $37.5 million-base). Johnson’s 4-year extension, if signed, would be in the $64 million-range.
Full disclosure, math was never my strongest subject in school. But that’s a lot of cash spent, rightfully, on the heart, soul and guts of your team. Any team dreaming of winning big at the NBA level has to invest in its core or risk vanishing into the ether.
When Hawks center Al Horord talks,in English or Spanish, people tend to listen.
What the Hawks have done is neither groundbreaking nor extraordinary in the world of professional sports. But for a franchise mired in a malaise of mediocrity for the better part of a decade prior to the last 13 months, it’s a pretty impressive feat. ”Obviously, I think it’s pretty important to build on to what we’ve started,” Horford said during our phone conversation last week. And he would know, having played on successful teams every year of his college and professional career to date. “I’m glad Marv got his deal done, because we’re going to need all our guys back and ready to go this season.”
By no means does this excuse the Hawks from the responsibility of filling out the roster with quality players capable of supporting that core group. But it certainly helps that the core is in place right now – a nucleus with three wildly talented youngsters in Horford, Williams and Smith. That would be a heck of a core group by itself. So to have JJ, Bibby, Zaza, rookie Jeff Teague and even Jamal Crawford to add to the list makes the list that much more impressive. It’ll look even better with the addition of a name like Joe Smith, still in the works according to some well-placed sources that insist the Hawks won’t give up until someone pries Smith from their dead claws.
Will it win a championship in a league where the defending champion Los Angeles Lakers have stockpiled elite talent to go around Kobe Bryant and the Boston Celtics have assembled a star-studded army to battle the Lakers, Cleveland and Orlando for supremacy? No way. But the same can be said for solid young teams in places like Portland and Chicago as well. That’s just the reality of the situation.
What a rock-solid core does is give the Hawks a fighting chance to be relevant now and into the future. And despite cries for titles (things, mind you, that Hawks fans have never experienced) relevancy is the tangible goal that all teams must focus on before moving into championship mode.
Having witnessed my favorite team’s lone championship season of my lifetime (scroll down to the bottom, it’s there, I swear), I can sympathize with the desire to shed the middle ground for the higher ground. Having witnessed that championship season also made it painfully clear to me just how rare those occasions are, even when you have seemingly all the resources in the world at your disposal, that your squad actually cashes in on the big prize.
Would I trade 40 years of rooting for a a competitive or even upper-tier team for one title? Absolutely. But if I can get both, even if the titles only come once every 50 years, I’m not turning that down either. Back to my original point, and I apologize for swerving off course a bit but it is football season (and I smell a comeback season cooking in Ann Arbor), it all comes down to perspective for me.
Is it more important to be relevant and potentially a true player or not? I say stay relevant (given whatever constraints might be in place, and it’s no secret the Hawks have many) as long as you can. We’ve all seen the flip side and it’s ugly, real ugly.
Where the Hawks fit in the grand scheme of things depends on your perspective, as well. If being the fourth team in a three-team Eastern Conference race doesn’t strike you, that’s understandable. And they will have challenger for that fourth spot. But they certainly seems sure of themselves.
“I feel like people are obviously starting to respect our ball club,” Williams said during his teleconference. “People realize they are not going to come into Atlanta and get an easy win. I don’t think anybody in the league is doing that anymore. We’ve shown the last few years we can compete with anybody in the league. We certainly feel like we can compete with anybody in the league.”
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488 comments Add your comment
bigdave
August 13th, 2009
9:42 pm
good luck Mike…!!!
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
9:44 pm
doc,
Bridges grew up in New Mexico and went to Kansas. They retired his jersey.
Drewscrilla
August 13th, 2009
9:55 pm
Vick just signed a 2 year deal with philly
Steve
August 13th, 2009
9:58 pm
Looks like the Cavs may get Joe Smith – on to Rob Kurz….
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
9:59 pm
Lol…I guess I can’t escape Vick no matter where I move, huh? Plays for the Falcons, goes to prison in northern VA after I move to DC, and now he’s in Philly.
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
10:00 pm
Lol…I guess I can’t escape Vick no matter where I move, huh? Plays for the Falcons, gets locked up in VA after I move to DC, and now he’s coming to Philadelphia.
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
10:00 pm
Whoops, sorry about that. Thought my first one got rejected
Stewart
August 13th, 2009
10:06 pm
Anyone know what the league minimum salary is? That would be for non-veteran or players in their first 2 to 3 yrs. Asking for the guys that are likely to finish up the roster.. Siler, Hunter, Korolev. Could these guys get like 300k to 600k at the minimum?
Mystikal
August 13th, 2009
10:09 pm
Congrats to Mike Vick!! But we’ll be ready to whup that a$$ on Dec. 6th
Big Ray
August 13th, 2009
10:12 pm
O’brien,
Those are the conclusions I’ve been drawing….
Big Ray
August 13th, 2009
10:16 pm
IMUS,
What’s good?
I see MV is back on the NFL scene. Hopefully he does well enough to earn a contract after this two year deal is over. Maybe his story doesn’t end in total tragedy. Hope not. I’m betting Vick is more sick of hearing about redemption than anybody else, and is just ready to play some football. Best of luck, dude. But like Mystikal said, we WILL be aiming at whippin’ that ass when we meet.
Mystikal
August 13th, 2009
10:23 pm
Has JOe Smith signed with somebody? or is it just bored ppl playing jokes again.
The Truth
August 13th, 2009
10:47 pm
gwite
From reading that Yahoo version of the latest of the Joe Smith Watch, I got the impression it really wasn’t anything new they reported. They just spun the same story in a different way. Since Sund has completely struck-out in the free agency game up to now (outside of our FAs), there is no logical reason to expect this outcome will be any different. If I could compare Sund to a basketball player, I would characterized him as being a player who shows flashes of greatness at times but is a weak finisher around the rim.
As I wrote previously about the contest between the Cavs and Hawks for Joe Smith, if the issue is about money, we should win that battle relative to the L. Tax. Since both teams have similar challenges resigning their star player, we’ll call that even. If the issue is the pursuit of a title, then the Cavs should win since they have a stockpile of quality players and a final contender. Let’s say at this point it’s a draw. Then the final decisive factor is playing time. Since they would have 3 backup PF including the acquisition of Moon and Powe, it would seem to me that Joe would see far-less playing time then he saw last year with the Cavs. I think we would win the playing time battle because Joe Smith would be the first off the bench to spell both Josh and Marvin. So if we have won 2 out of 3 of these battles, WHY CAN’T SUND CLOSE THE DEAL?
Is this about Joe Smith or is it about Sund? Or perhaps neither; it could be about Joe playing for Woody. The speculation continues. One thing is obvious, when this drama is over, it would be wise for Sund to clear the air with a press conference. Otherwise, this speculation will have a full set of legs and a lot of juice.
doc
August 13th, 2009
10:52 pm
sautee, i meant didnt he play in st louis before they came here in 66?
Steve
August 13th, 2009
11:02 pm
Hawks at about 63m in salaries for this year – can’t go over luxury tax line of 69+m set by ASG. This leaves around 6m for the 3-5 remaining players we will sign. Joe Smith only made 1.2m last year. He may have a great agent, basing his value on the Cavs 1st round playoff series. Can’t see him making over 2m per annum over 2 years – I would rather get Rusk or the OKC center than over pay for Smith. On the other hand, I think Smith the elder could teach Smith the younger a few things, and probably Al, ZaZa, RandMo, Garrett, and Hunter as well.
I’m still wondering if we sign Flip and West, and let Gardner go, or just how that will play out. If we sign Flip, practice squad will most likely be West or Gardner, Othello and Siler. Sounds good to me.
Steve
August 13th, 2009
11:07 pm
P.S. I hope we didn’t blow it letting Solomon go – and I also know signing Flip is probably just wishful thinking…
The Truth
August 13th, 2009
11:11 pm
Steve
Not bad, not at all; Exactly that sounds pretty dam good
ILL-logical
August 13th, 2009
11:20 pm
RX for boring blog (maybe). Of the Hawks, Falcons, and Braves, who’s best positioned (considering current young talent and ability of GMs to add missing pieces) to get to the most finals (i.e., NBA, Super Bowl, or World Series) during the 5-year period 2010 through 2014 (inclusive)?
1. The Falcons. The NFL “assists” its franchises in the process of making playoff apperances, especially in the major media centers. But the Falcons also have the best front office in town so they are the number 1 candidate for an eventual championship.
2. The Hawks. In the next 2 years, the coaching and the front office issues will be solved. And the team identity will be completely different. IF Josh, Teague and Al /Marvin remain, that core should be able to go a long, long way. Maybe to the top.
#. The Braves will never see another World Serise, let alone win one as long as any vestige of the JS era remains. IF they surround this young guy Heywood with talent, without regard to any other considerations, they may be very good for a very long time. But I wouldn’t bet on that.
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
11:35 pm
The luxury tax line is $69M, but keep in mind that most teams stay $1-2M under that level so that they have room to sign free agents down the stretch, either because of injuries or because a good player that the team wants is waived/released midseason. The Spurs did that this past year with Drew Gooden, for instance.
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
11:39 pm
That being said, signing Smith to a one-year deal at a few hundred grand above the minimum should be a no-brainer. My guess is that Joe Smith is holding out for a 2-year deal, which Sund rightfully is nervous about giving him since we’ll need all the money we can get if we want to extend Joe and/or try to trade for a marquee player next summer.
cp
August 13th, 2009
11:54 pm
I wonder when the Vick jerseys will go on sale. I truly hope he finally gets it and turns his life around. He has too many people in his corner who wants him to succeed in life forget the football aspect…..Sign Joe Smith already and lets get this season started.
Mystikal
August 13th, 2009
11:56 pm
Hey Ill, i’m definitely with you on the Falcons contending. They surely have the best front office personnel and think it will mainly come down to them staying healthy (easier said then done) as they continue to get better. For the hawks, I think it’s just wishful thinking to believe the ownership debacle will be solved anytime soon, but we definitely can upgrade the coach. If we can get a coach who properly uses our athleticism to get out and run along with developing players than they’ll be headed in the right direction as well. Co-sign Braves
Ken Strickland
August 14th, 2009
12:13 am
DOC-forgive me my friend. I didn’t think of Bill Bridges until after I’d posted my list. I believe he did come over from St Louis, along with LWilkins, JCaldwell, ZBeatty and maybe PSilas.
I could be wrong, naturally, but I think Joe Smith has made the Hawks his #1 priority, as long as the numbers can be worked out. Considering what he did last yr, especially in the playoffs, I can’t believe his services aren’t wanted by any team besides the Hawks. With his versatility, and being a very experienced vet, he knows Woodson will give him consistent mins.
The Truth
August 14th, 2009
12:26 am
As I see it, Mo Evans becomes expendable if Joe Smith is signed. So, one option to free-up cash (2.5M) to help the resigning of JJ, would be to trade Evans to a expiring contract since his current contract has another year with a player option. If that happens, the 2.5M becomes available for JJ when his extension kicks-in 2010 season. Of course this scenario only works if such an opportunity presents itself.
Ariose
August 14th, 2009
12:38 am
Ummm….would I be wrong to get a MV7 Philly Jersey? I’m afraid I might get murked by a few PETA members if I do….or some angry unreasonable Falcon/Matty ice supporters….
Ray, LOL@ 4:53pm post.
Also, you ALL are delsional. Obinna Okezie was CLEARLY the greatest PF to don a Hawks jersey….
Mystikal
August 14th, 2009
12:48 am
Trade Mo for Brandon Wright, Kurt THomas, or Josh Boone!
Ariose
August 14th, 2009
12:50 am
I wish Vick the best. I hope he can get his personal life together and keep it that way….hopefully the wounded bitd will take fligh once again……but we pluckin’ his feathers on Dec 6th….
Ariose
August 14th, 2009
12:53 am
*hopefully the wounded bird will take flight once again
Man, If we could get Boone for Mo and then Resign flip….nasty lineup….just filthy sick….
MAC-TOWN
August 14th, 2009
1:09 am
Bibby = Can shoot…..but no defense……no ability to quickly penetrate to the hole for the deuce/get fouled and go to the line/and-1. Since he lacks the ability to penetrate, that means no penetration and kick outs.
Teague cant be any worse than bibby at any of those things….except shooting…so if Teague comes in and displays he has the ability to knock down long range shots consistently…..
I think he will take alot of Bibby’s minutes. It’s not hard to imagine that Teague has a good chance of taking Bibby’s job
niremetal
August 14th, 2009
1:19 am
I know Mo gets a lot of hate around here, but he’s actually a pretty solid player. I’d give him up for a big man who would play the same minutes, sure, but he has a relatively consistent three point shot and gives full effort. You kind of forget that he’s there sometimes, but his motor never stops. I remember he was still playing all-out (along with Othello, Acie, and Gardner) in that “garbage time” blowout in Game 2. You can never have too many of those types on your team, even if he is a tweener swingman…
Ariose
August 14th, 2009
1:23 am
Nire, I love mo, really…..but If the right deal comes along…Obviously Joshe Boone isn’t that guy, but If it means hringing Flip back hehehe….j/k
Ariose
August 14th, 2009
1:24 am
BTW the “nasty lineup….just filthy sick…” OBVIOUSLY Wasn’t for Boone lol
The Truth
August 14th, 2009
1:38 am
Ariose
That’s not an outrageous idea at all since Boone salary averages about the same as Mo Evans over the same 2 yr term. However his contract does not expires next year since he has a qualifying offer next year. As stated to help free up cash for Joe. Also, Boone free-throw shooting would be a serious down grade for us since he only shoots 37.6% vs. 82.2% for Evans. I can live with that if we can get these deals done.
Clyde
August 14th, 2009
5:06 am
Vick will get a ring this year. Week 12 will be interesting.
JSS
August 14th, 2009
6:35 am
Well you know what will be NBC’’s “FLEX” game on December 6th… Greeting from Berlin on the eve of the World Track and Field Championships… I won’t bore all of you B-Ballers with a update from here. But to say the least, Bolt-vs-Gay on Day 2 is groiwng on the edge of being something just South of the Batttle at Gettysburg…
By the way, S.A.R. should never appear on a list of anything considered “best.” Shoot, Don Adams was a better PF than S.A. Rahim… Mike Sojourner was a better PF than S.A. R.
Bob Petit (is, was, and will always be A BASKETBALL GOD), but he was St. Louis Hawk)
1. Roundfield (most consistent on both ends)
2. Bill Bridges (Too bad most of you never saw him)
3. Len “TRUCK” Robinson (The Big Throwback, the best rent a player trade this franchise ever
made)
4. Paul Silas (3rd worst trade in Hawks history, combined with “Bells” made up for Lou
Hudson’s misdadventures…
5. Kevin Willis (The Black Hole, once the ball went into the post, it never reemerged)
Well, time for lunch… Have a great weekend… You can catch the meet online on the BBC, CBC, and Universal Sports except when NBC and Versus are broadcasting…
JSS
August 14th, 2009
6:42 am
Oh, since the AJC doesn’t seem to support local athletes.
Here’s your local athletes to keep an eye on and hopefully cheer on:
Men’s Team
Angelo Taylor (Fayetteville, GA) 400IM, 4×400M relay
Terrence Trammell (Atlanta, Ga.) 110 MH, 4×100M relay
Travis Padgett (Marietta, Ga.) 4×100M relay
Keith Moffatt (Atlanta, Ga.) High Jump
Dwight Philips (Snellville, GA) Long Jump
Kenta Bell (Atlanta, GA) Triple Jump
Reese Hoffa (Athens, Ga.) Shot Put
Adam Nelson (Charlottesville, VA, but a UGA grad and Atlanta native) Shot Put
Chris Hill (Athens, GA) Javelin
Women’s Team
Chaunte Howard (Snellville, Ga.) High Jump
doc
August 14th, 2009
7:45 am
ken you know i am just playing and know we are peers.
really glad to see bridges get some respect.
zelmo might have been our best ever if he had stayed but as hawks fans arent we always talking about what might have been.
Hoops
August 14th, 2009
8:08 am
Mark Blount is probably going to be waived by the Timberwolves after being traded by the Heat for Q Richardson. Blount is 33 year’s old and is 7″0″. If Joe does not sign, this might be an option.
dap01
August 14th, 2009
8:22 am
If we can sign a useful big man to back up our bigs (Smith) and if Teague is mature enough to play HIS game (and Woody is able to let him play) we could grow alot.
If we sit back and hoist 3’s (Woody’s and Bibby’s game) we will stagnate.
Melvin
August 14th, 2009
8:27 am
The Timberwolves are expected to waive Mark Blount. Can we at least sign him. I have lost hope in signing Joe Smith.
Daniel
August 14th, 2009
8:35 am
I want to throw out the name Tyrone Corbin. Certainly not a top 5 PF, but maybe the most unattractive person I have ever seen.
Sautee
August 14th, 2009
8:45 am
R.I.P. Les Paul.
Did more to change popular music than ANYBODY.
Invented the electric guitar and had a large hand in developing multi-track recording.
And played a regular Monday night gig (at age 94!) until just a few weeks ago.
ILL-logical
August 14th, 2009
9:31 am
JSS: Thanks for the Track and Field info, I’m a big fan.
Suatee: Thanks for the Les Paul shotout, he now joins the big jam session in the sky. Rashid Ali, former Coltrane drummer par excelance recently joined that goup as well.
I am stubbornly clinging to the notion that hiring Antonio Davis as a big man “consultant” is just as important as signing Joe Smith, if not more so.
vava74
August 14th, 2009
9:46 am
ILL-Logical,
Antonio Davis was a banger which is something you can’t teach.
You either have that in you or you don’t. Hence, how could he help teaching our bigs? Eventually only on the defensive end (were to put your hands in the back of the guy posting you, or where to position your feet defensively)…
We need someone that teaches them post moves. J-Smoove learned a couple with Hakeem but doesn’t use them consistently.
Al needs to learn his post moves as well pronto… if he does, I am happy with him at the 5 spot.
Daniel
August 14th, 2009
10:16 am
Sautee- Thanks for the reminder. RIP Les Paul
Anakin Joe
August 14th, 2009
10:56 am
Antoine Carr for big man coach (as if y’all haven’t heard me say that before). I wish I had seen this Bill Brdiges play, sounds like a unanimous nomination. That list certainly brought out the “old heads”. Cool stuff.
Mark Blount? I guess, but dude has previously suffered from reboundphobia… a fear of going after missed shots. I’m not entirely sure I wouldn’t take Jason Collins before Blount.
I’m happy for Vick but I’m a Falcons fan. And I just can’t see any true Falcons fan putting on another team’s colors, I don’t care whose name is on the back. I wonder how many would wear a Josh Smith jersey if he were sent to another team? I know that I would gladly purchase a Jamal Crawford jersey if he were traded to another team (in the next 18 months)
Hoops
August 14th, 2009
11:07 am
I wonder if the Warriors would trade Ronny Turiaf for Mo Evans and R. Morris. Biedrins, Maggette, Wright, & Randolph will probably play in front of him. That will save them .8M as well.
Turiaf would give us that bruiser off the bench in place of Morris.
Anakin Joe
August 14th, 2009
11:18 am
Hoops, trade Mo straight up for craig Smith. He has an expiring contract and also makes $2.5M. And the Clips could use Mo to deal with the numerous SGs in their division.
Hoops
August 14th, 2009
11:22 am
Anakin Joe,
Sounds good to me. I bet you are starting to wonder if we are going to be able to sign Joe Smith as well. I’m starting to doubt that it’s going to happen. Craig Smith plays hard. A little undersized, but you can’t measure a guys heart!
The Truth
August 14th, 2009
11:27 am
AJ
I like that deal also. Why don’t give Sund a call